Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Part 3: Monica & Jess Love Motherly Advice with Kristen Bell

Episode Date: February 26, 2020

In Part 3: Monica and Jess Love Motherly Advice with Kristen Bell, M and J invite their mom to the attic. Using her mother's intuition, Kristen warns Jess on the falsity of butterflies, they discuss the prevalence of blocking people on apps and Kristen asks Jess about the rigidity of tops and bottoms in the gay dating community. She encourages Monica to externalize her sexuality, she tells a story of a friend who leaves her underwear at bars and Monica reveals a recent fantasy slip. Kristen talks about her own dating patterns - testing her partners and dealing with jealousy. The three discuss fidelity, knowing one's value and Kristen assigns the most extreme challenges yet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Monica, aka Miniature Mouse. I love boys. But I don't have one. And in fact, I've never had one. I could probably count on two hands how many dates I've been on in my entire life. And I decided it's time to change that. Hi, I'm Jess, and I love boys too. And in the opposite way of Monica, I can't count on all the hands in America how many people I've had sex with. And yet, I

still don't have a boyfriend. And I want one. And I'm Dax, and I love Monica and Jess in so many ways. They don't have partners. And that is a huge mystery to me because they're both incredibly attractive, so fun, so smart, and have so much to offer. So what we decided to do is examine these unhealthy patterns and bring in experts and outsiders to help critique us, advise us, guide us, pretty much call bullshit on us so that we can find the romantic companion that we're looking for. We started this thinking it was gonna be just cute, little dating challenges that we would go on and talk about and laugh about. Turns out it is very hard to be vulnerable

in real time in public. Yes, I'm so excited! You are so lying. We romanticize pathological love. One to 10, how much do you want love? Go, you can't even get the sentence out. I would just eat around it. It's a little selfish.

Why do I want something, and then why have I designed a defense? We must put the chum in the water for the sharks to come, buddy. Monica's like, so apparently I have to join Raya this week. He likes fucking. You don't even have a kiss, a handheld, anything. Your frontal lobe is just in the way. Push-up bra, low-cut top. That's what you should be doing.

I masturbate every night. Rob's too uncomfortable for this. Please enjoy part three. Monica and Jess love motherly advice with Kristen Bell. We are supported by Athletic Greens. We love Athletic Greens.

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Why not just try it? Jump over to athleticgreens.com slash monica and claim my special offer today. 20 free travel packs valued at $79 with your first purchase. That's athleticgreens.com slash monica. Monica don't like, Monica don't like boys. Monica loves boys. Jess don't like, Jess don't like boys. He loves boys. Monica and Jess, you know they don't like boys.

They love boys. Welcome to episode three of Monica and Jess Love Boys. Monica and Jess Love Boys. We have a very special mom on our show today. My mom, Kristen Bell. I'm so excited to be here with my two firstborn children. One younger, one older than you. Yeah, but that's not how it works.

Families come in all shapes and sizes. Age is irrelevant. Yes. And height. And height, yeah. And you two are like my children and sometimes like my parents for sure. Well, because, no, Jess and I, you, Monica, you're obviously a lot like my mom because you're just better at things than I am.

But, and you keep everything on track. But Jess is also someone that I've gone to when I've had problems and like I need an evolved perspective because I'm feeling like a rebellious teenager and Jess always helps me. So in that case, you're kind of like my father. Wow. Nice. Daddy issues.

Hey. We all have them. Yeah, we do. So we'll start with, I guess, talking about our challenges from last week. Yeah. And in full honesty, it's been more than a week. But we did have to complete our challenge within the week, and we both did that. Correct.

Jess, tell us about what happened when you deleted for five days. So my challenge was to delete all my dating and sex apps for five days. I deleted all of them, and there's four of them. Grindr, Tinder, Scruff, and Hinge. I've never heard of Scruff. Scruff is in the gay community, a little bit more older, a little bit more hairier, a little bit more. Okay, bears. Bears.

Is it only gay community? Yes. That's why I haven't heard of it. Yeah. Sure. But it's the same people. Yeah. Pretty much.

They're all the same people and a lot of overlap. Yeah. So I deleted them. Pretty scary. Day one all the same people and a lot of overlap. Yeah. So I deleted them. Pretty scary. Day one was a little hard. Day two, more of a gut reaction going to my phone. And then it got a little easier. I did feel like, by the way, I didn't go on one date or text one person or have sex at all for a week. So what if that's better or worse? I don't know. But that was really funny that it sure did cut off all communication, all hookups and all dates and all that. So it shows that that's your primary source of finding people.

Yes. Granted, I had seven or eight people in rotation in queue on my phone that I've been talking to with 818 numbers, 213 numbers. I don't know who, because I haven't met them yet. They don't get a name in my phone until I meet them. So I'm talking with a lot of 818 numbers and 310 numbers, but I didn't reach out to them either. And guess what? They didn't reach out to me either in that week. That's interesting. That is interesting. Then I felt a little bit more present with my friends. I felt a little bit more present with my family when I hung out with them. I did catch myself more on Instagram and more on Catan when I was on my phone. So I do think the phone is more of an addiction than the apps.

It's grabbing, it's holding it. It is the phone. I played a lot of Catan. I hate how much I use my phone. And if I don't have work to do, I'll find myself going for it. I'm like, you don't have any work to do. Stop reaching for it. But there are other times when I just want to be on it

because I want to be inside my head. And if you don't have it in your hand, then everybody's talking to you. And sometimes I use it as a safety net too where I want to be an introvert and I just want to be alone inside my own head. Sometimes I'll just go on and look at my contacts for duplicate contacts and just delete them.

But because it feels a little bit like the technological version of cleaning your junk drawer. I don't know. Yeah. Another good hack for that is going through emails and unsubscribe. That feels real good. It feels almost as good as blocking people. I've never blocked.

You haven't? I thought I wasn't being nice. My husband blocks anyone and everyone. And he was just like, yeah, because I don't want my social channels to be a place for toxicity. So if you're going to be mean, you can't be a part of it. Yeah. That is a big part of Grindr is blocking people and it's very hurtful and also saves so much time. Yeah. I block often because it's a clear no. You don't have to be friends with everyone is something I've been saying to myself for like five years. And it feels awful, but it also feels really healthy.

And I think that humans don't like to reject or be rejected, but it is okay. I guess I'm trying to think of even on or be rejected, but it is okay. Like, I guess I'm trying to think of even on where. Well, you can block texts. Yeah, I've never done that. I told you the other night I got a random phone call. Someone said, Kristen, how are you? I said, good. And then they hung up and then immediately started getting dick pics.

My God, you didn't fart that day. I was just about to say you should have farted and then took a jet. Were they nice? Sure, they were. I don just about to say you should afford it. Were they nice? Sure. They were. Well, I don't know if I could judge because if I don't want to see a penis, it's not going to be nice. If I'm not in the mood to see a penis, there's no penis that I'm going to be like, I wasn't

in the mood, but hold on. That's beautiful. I'm just like, no. I would. My answer is no. Right. Sure. You're always in the mood though.

That's the difference. That really is actually the difference. It's not even a joke. Like, Kristen obviously does not have any desire to see a random person's penis, and you always have the desire to. Well, but everybody's different. I'm sure that there are, like,

I'm sure Jackie would want to see penises, even when she wasn't, like, thinking. Even when she's taken? Sure, she would be like, let me just grab a look. I feel that way about dogs. I want to see every dog. It doesn't matter if I'm in the middle of writing my thesis for college. I'm like, yeah, let me get a look at that dog.

But I have a real quick question about blocking on Grindr. So do you get a notification when somebody blocks you? They disappear. So you have a whole chat and then it vanishes. How does it feel to get blocked? i'm used to it and i enjoy it and i laughed oh tons of times i told i told this last time i don't give my instagram out and i gave my instagram to someone i'm like i'm gonna be more involved and fine if you're gonna know me or meet me i'll give you my instagram and as soon as as I gave him my Instagram, I got blocked. For whatever reason, I rarely get my feelings hurt because I don't like not knowing. Ambiguity

for me is like... That's one reason that I love talking to you about my problems, Jess, is because you are so evolved in knowing who you are and your worth. You have accepted in your bone marrow that you are for some people and you're not for others. And the flip side works too. Some people are for you and some people are not for you. And I just, yeah, this whole thing with blocking people, it's like some people are going to like you. Some people aren't. You're going to like some people. You're not. It goes both ways, I guess. And for dating, especially, it saves time. If I'm playing the Jess game, Dating, especially, it saves time.

If I'm playing the Jess game, which is 5,000 guys a year, the blocking helps. You know, you're going to say, okay, great, onward and upward. Because blocking in that case is mainly used as a like permanent no. That's kind of what they're saying. They're not saying you've done something offensive. I'm blocking you. You're my permanent no. Okay, but you didn't love getting blocked.

I know that you didn't. Oh, that wasn't actually blocking that I'm thinking. What are you thinking of? The story you said when you went on the date. And then he said it wasn't a match. See, that time, I'll just say it. We were going to have sex. I had to prepare for this sex. And it didn't work.

I had to be cleaned out. You weren't prepped. I wasn't. I was prepping and I couldn't. And I was thinking about lying to him saying something came up or an audition. But is it no option to, again, just sort of like peel back all these layers that humans deal with of just saying, I'm so sorry. I'd love to have sex. I couldn't evacuate. So it's just not going to be clean. I did. So I called him and I explained it and he laughed. So let's just go on a date now instead. And he said, great. So that's why when I got over there, I think it stung a little bit more because we weren't going to have sex. He canceled on the date. That's why I was triggered. And that's why I went to a Korean spa 15 minutes afterwards and jerked off in a steam room with a guy. And that's why

half hour after that, I went to happy hour and four drinks. And it's all textbook. When you've said it's not a match, whether you've seen them or blocked them or said no to a date or said no to sex, have you ever thought about what their processing might be like having been rejected like has that ever run through your head of like oh i hope he doesn't go home and you know have all these rejection feelings no i don't have a lot of codependency as far as other people but don't you think it's learned perhaps like this community has all these rules and all these boundaries. I mean just like the straight community does.

Very learned and very rule of 50,000 hours. 10,000 hours Malcolm Gladwell? Yeah but I'm going to go 50,000 hours. I feel like from the stories I hear the process that you go through feels so compartmentalized. This is sex. Period. This is a date, period. It's like, I'm not used to that. I agree. Well, the straight community doesn't take it like that. And that's partially because we tell, you know, girls growing up, like, don't ever let anyone deflower you, but be pretty. You're so pretty, but don't ever let anyone touch you. Yeah. Have sex. You have

to fall in love. You have to fall in love, which I think is baloney. And I actually think it's kind of a great thing, the compartmentalization, because humans do have sexual urges. You want to take care of them safely and comfortably. And there's an etiquette to it with the water or whatever. But there is there. And you know what I mean? There's this. And then you go like, oh, I had to do I had an itch. I needed it scratched. You also had an itch. You got it scratched. And I think the only time that that backfires is like when we're in a situation now where

you guys might be looking for something that appeals to you in the longer term. Like if you actually just want to be single, I don't think there's anything wrong with participating in that compartmentalization because everybody's got sexual urges and you need to get them out or you'll go insane. And I think we do go insane as human beings when we don't let them out. But you just have to make sure it's consensual and safe and everyone's on the same page. Everyone's on the same page. Yeah, that is true. But then if you've declared that you want something more you want a relationship it gets muddy if then you're still doing the sex transaction but you also want that like that's why it doesn't work if you still do that it's the reason dax got sober dax didn't get sober because

he missed christmas or was seen by a hundred cars shitting on the side of the road in Santa Monica or almost got killed in Hawaii. Like those things didn't get him sober. What got him sober is he said, hmm, let me look at the math of my life. If I want to have a wife and a family and sit by a Christmas tree on December 25th, I probably can't be doing this, drugs and this kind of a lifestyle. So I always work from the solution backwards. What do I want? Okay, if I want, let's say somebody wants a completely stable family, then you begin to look for that.

And that involves cutting some other things that might have been fun or short-term or instant gratification, cutting those out. Yeah. It's the exact same thing when you're like, I want abs this year. Okay, well then you've got to cut back on the cake and you've got to go to the gym. Everything takes work, but there is a result that you wanted at the end.

It's the difference between wanting something and committing to something. I can want a lot of things. I could want to win the lottery. I could want to be a series regular. I'm not committed to doing that. That's why this whole thing is so interesting to me because I could want to win the lottery. I could want to be a series regular. I'm not committed to doing that. And that's why this whole thing is so interesting to me because I am starting to make small changes. You know, I went on a date the other day and I really said, no, we're not having sex.

And then the date progressed and he was pushing it. And I'm like, no, I know what will happen if we go back to my house. Let's just – and I tried to end this date four times. But then the date lasted seven hours and we had sex and I was just, I did cave. And I wanted to cut that date into four. I want to get to know someone on smaller increments. My friend Katie has a fun tally where she says she has to know someone for 24 hours before having sex with them but so she has to know them so she has to go on the equivalent of dates that add up to 24 hours before and that was her saying it's not

healthy for me or i'm just having sex too easily and i'm not loving it and it feels empty it feels yeah for her i think it felt empty and she was like great so i'll just i got a number it's 24 if i've known for 24 hours so sometimes that's five dates that last longer. Sometimes that's 10 dates. Yeah. You know, that's interesting. Yeah. Sometimes it's one full day where it's just a great day. And then, but that was her marker.

Yeah. But we have to figure out a way to get you capable of saying, I'm going to press pause now and let's resume tomorrow or next week. I already know what the issue is. It's drinking. It's going on these dates and having two drinks, three drinks. Then the things that I wanted to go into there are shaved off a little, gets a little fun. And then I start getting loosey goosey. He starts getting loosey goosey. Yeah. The conviction starts disappearing. starts getting loosey-goosey.

Yeah, the conviction starts disappearing. That's exactly what happened on that one. When you go on these dates, is there any discussion up front? Not that this might be too much pressure, but is there any discussion, or maybe it's in the app, in their bio, of what you want?

When you start to sit down and get to know everyone, do you ever say, what's your end goal? Are you looking for something committed, or are you just like hanging out? Like, does that ever get clarified for either person? That's a great question. That's in some people's Tinder bio. Mine is up in the air because I think things happen in the moment and organically what you feel like it's going to be. I don't like having a whole bunch of rules. And I do think some people on the apps are forcing sex too much. And I do think some people on the apps are forcing dating too much.

Like, I want to find my partner in crime. I'm long-term related only. I want to find my right eye. I want to find the guy that I delete this app for. I want to fucking throw up. Like, it's so... I'm only into long-term relationships. I want to be like long-term relationships happen. You can't look for that. Well, well, but those people have probably

been through a long roller coaster of going, what is healthiest for me? I want this. So I'm going to be very blunt and just say, look, I have to check these boxes. So if you're not in the mood, if you just want to hang out, I don't think I'd be going on a date with anyone that's super strict about whatever it is. But why look at it as strict? Why not look at it as knowing what they want, knowing what they want, charged with like the efficiency of the rest of their life? Because I, for one, would like kind of find that attractive. Honestly, though, this gets down to the really base thing that I battle with every day where I feel very superficial. If they're hot and get my juices flowing and my heart starts beating and I get butterflies, then I would be all over that.

I don't know, man. But can I remind you of something, though, as your mom? That's not the only good feeling in the world. I think you particularly have become a bit addicted to that feeling yes and part of that is not your fault you are a very bright shiny light bulb and it's easy for you to feel that and it's easy for you to give that feeling away which is beautiful about you but it's not the only feeling because let me tell you something when Dax and I see each other do we like immediately want to strip each other's

clothes off like am I undressing with my eyes all the time? No, we've been married for 13 years. But there are different, more evolved feelings that are harder to articulate that come with being with someone for a lengthy amount of time. It's not the only feeling. It's just the strongest. It's actually a chemical reaction in your brain of dopamine and oxytocin being released yes and that's why i'm embarrassed and i'm sweating a little bit but i will say it's more than just the looks there are butterflies i get from personality too or a combo of the two or something where that person i want to see them again. And I'm thinking about them. I'm not talking about sexually. I'm talking about the butterflies. But I get butterflies from personality.

I know, but I'm saying the butterflies are what is not the only emotion. Butterflies is a heightened, addictive response to dopamine and oxytocin in your brain. And it's not always the safest and oxytocin in your brain. And it's not always the safest way to judge things, mainly because neuroscience has proven that they dissipate after three months. So it's actually the one thing you know will go away. And I think I read somewhere that butterflies are basically akin to anxiety. It's a similar response as you're going into an anxious state. Really, it's just that you're on high alert for something that's going to happen. And that feels real and alive. It does. Also going back to your admitting, it doesn't really matter when it's someone hot. But I think you're not. I hate that about, I hate that I said that. No, I'm glad. Well, first of all, you're being honest. You're

human being. And nobody in this room could deny that someone who is visually stimulating gives you butterflies and you somehow you appeal to them more than you appeal to other people. That's very naturally human and something we have to fight. You don't have a bad person because you said that. Exactly. And it sucks. We should be hoping to bypass that feeling, but we all acknowledge it for what it is. Exactly. No, you're actually more evolved because you're the one admitting it. And if anybody listening to this says, I don't have that, they're lying.

Yeah, exactly. But it's deeper than that. It's not just like that person's hot. It's if that person gives me validation, I'm better. That's what you're actually feeling. It's about you. It's about if this person likes me, then I'm worthy of that. But that's why it's actually more stable. If this is what you're looking for, you can get that from

people who you don't initially feel like, you know, in a photo lineup weren't the most attractive person, but will give you those same kind of butterflies from their personality because they're super fun. And that's what I'm doing. I'm going on more dates after three and four with people that I don't feel that with. And I don't think about them when I'm not with them. And that's a weird feeling. I want to miss someone and I don't. And I've only have three boyfriends in my life. So I just wish, you know, the, some of these things that you said, Dak said as well, I'm like, you've dated so many and you've had such good luck, you know, and I've had three boyfriends my whole life, never over a year. So I'm, and that's where I feel where it's, it's hard for me to even have this,

what is it pot to go in or this thing to use this, this. You never know your metaphors. I hate my metaphors. This trough to take my, this thing that you have, which is all of the guys you've dated, let's say in the five, five year relationships you this thing that you have which is all of the guys you've dated let's say and the five year relationships you've had you have so much fodder experience and learning

yes and I don't have a lot of that at all of course and that's obvious no no no I mean that's relevant

incredibly relevant we are supported by OkCupid. We love OkCupid because they have changed the dating game. They match you with people you are actually compatible with because they ask you these really kind of intricate, really fun, cool questions. Like, what is your favorite cuddling position? Could you date someone who didn't believe in reproductive rights? Do you try to limit your screen time? Obviously not. They really like get to the nitty gritty about you and then they match you up. It's awesome. And they also have some pretty good tips for us. Number one, know what's important to you.

Answers to questions about topics that are important to you can help inform a more accurate match percentage for you. Number two, proofread everything. Typos are a deal breaker. They really, really are a deal breaker. For you especially. For me, I'm like, come on. Just take the extra second. And then number three, send a meaningful first message.

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And then tell us about that great person you met, and we might come to that wedding. We are supported by Best Fiends. Jess, first of all, we love games, period. Yes. It's all we do is play games. That's true. And I introduced you to Best Fiends. So much fun.

It's so fun, right? I love it. Yes. Yes. We're both sort of's so fun, right? I love it. Yes. Yes. We're both sort of addictive in nature. What? What? And it's so fun because you like collect these characters and you want more and it's puzzles.

And God, I love it. It's also a casual game. So sometimes I'll peek over and you're just kind of on it casually. Yeah. Yeah. You don't like need to sort of dedicate a whole bunch of time to it. You can kind of be in and out. And I was just traveling and I played it on the plane because you don't need internet, which is a huge bonus. Best Fiends updates the

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How long, this is just out of curiosity, how long do you date someone before you bring them home to us? Because you've brought two guys, brought,

you've brought two guys home to us. How long? Six months. Six months. Then you can introduce them to your family. That's a long time.

Yeah, no, for real. We get a lot of girlfriends that are bringing like date two over and i'm like what are we doing here with this bozo yeah but i'll be honest tim took me six months to bring to you and greg i was like oh i want you to meet greg after maybe two months or so because look at this shiny object. Because he was, yeah, had that flowy hair. You, again, felt better because he was on your arm a little bit. It's so embarrassing. And I have chills right now. But it's honest, though.

You cannot kick yourself for being honest. If we don't admit what our faults are, we're never going to get through them. Yeah. It's interesting because what you're saying about it doesn't matter if they're hot when you're looking at them and stuff. I mean, that's the thing. So my challenge was to get on. Yeah, let's get to your show. I was just going to say, how have you been handling? My challenge was to get on a dating app, which I did. And what song did you choose? Okay. Yes. I was on Raya. I am am on raya and write it down everybody at home no and this was so hard for me so we're on a marco polo chain with all of our girlfriends and there's

like eight of us or something and then all of a sudden the marco polo started coming in of monica's like angry face like her resting bitch face and she like, so apparently I have to join Raya this week and I have to pick a song. Like, why would you have to pick a song? No, I have to pick one song that identifies who I am that people are going to see on my page. And it was just like Marco Polo's bitching about having to pick a song. And then Nicole actually came up with Sweet Cherry Pie,

which I was like, that's perfect. Goose Sweet Cherry Pie. That was a great suggestion. I did not use it. But it was a good suggestion what ended up happening is you couldn't pick the portion of the song you wanted so it was pre-portioned and that portion of that song was not good okay um and then that also happened because I was gonna choose Lizzo boys and then similarly the portion was not the part I liked so I chose Juice by Lizzo but look but that was such a struggle even before that Marco Polo that was days in like

the first day Jess and was like how about we do it now and I'm like no I can't I have to get into a headspace like this feels so it's like rubbing my stomach and patting my head like it feels so uncomfortable wrong I don't like it I don't want to do it and then I went on another person's podcast and I was like I'm joining Raya today and she was like oh my god you are gonna love it it's gonna be great and I was like okay and I started to feel good and she was like, oh, my God, you are going to love it. It's going to be great. And I was like, OK. And I started to feel good. And then she was like, what is your song going to be? I was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

What song? She's like, you've got to pick a song. And it's so fun. And I was like, oh. But also, you, look, I know you very well. You are this delicious combination of someone who thinks everything is funny and can be be a joke but also who takes everything seriously so I just want to tell you as your friend and your mom that 15 seconds of song does not have to explain you or identify you it just can be something that you like

it doesn't have to be I mean you could, you know, why are there so many songs about rainbows by Kermit? It doesn't matter. It doesn't have to identify you. And I think you, and this is part of why I love you, everything you do is well thought out. And so conscious, you are putting way too much weight on this 15 second song clip. I know. I know. That's all true. But it's a little deeper than that because on this app, you don't really write about

yourself on it. It's just pictures and your song. And that's what you're showing to these people as you. And I don't like my pictures. And so I feel like, oh, the the song we need to get you some glasses well no I mean but this is what I'm saying when Jess is looking at the pictures and it's like well if that person's hot they can basically get away with anything I'm this is not a fishing for compliment exercise this is the truth I'm not that. I am not the person that shows up on the page and you'll

excuse all the other stuff. And by the way, I'm happy with that because I feel confident in a lot of the other elements, but you don't see that on these pages. Two things. I think that you don't see how beautiful you are and that's fine. Everyone has a little bit of body dysmorphia, you don't see how attractive you are to look at. And also, we can all collectively agree a lot of pretty people are useless because they have bad personalities. That is just the truth. You know, like if you don't have to work to hone your personalities, we like as society, we lift up these people because they give us this instant jolt because they're pleasing to look at. And all of a sudden our retinas are like, society, we lift up these people because they give us this instant jolt because they're pleasing to look at. And all of a sudden our retinas are like, ah, but those people don't deliver.

And what we should be valuing is the people who do deliver, which is you. Although I will say I don't agree with your categorization of yourself because you are incredibly beautiful and lovely to look at. And also, here's a kick in the teeth. You don't make the rules of what everyone else lovely to look at. And also, here's a kick in the teeth. You don't make the rules of what everyone else loves to look at. So I'm sure there's going to be tons of people on Raya who are going to be like, that girl's gorgeous. And you don't get to say, no, I'm an average person. I am putting way too much pressure on the whole thing in general. And that's because it makes you nervous.

Because it makes me nervous and it makes me feel really really really vulnerable and i have figured out ways in life to escape that vulnerability and this feels just like head on doing it which is why it's good for me but really awful i mean like i've completed my challenge but i didn't do a very very good job like i Which is why it's good for me, but really awful. I mean, like I've completed my challenge, but I didn't do a very, very good job. Like I scrolled a couple times and even we were at dinner the other night and a bunch of our girlfriends were there and one of them was like, let's scroll right now. And I was like, I don't want to. And like, I really didn't want to and I didn't. But that's the reaction.

It's just like, I don't want to. And I also, as everyone knows, can't be peer pressured. So this is a weird thing where I feel like I don't want to do it, so I'm not going to do it. Like it's almost a stubbornness too. That stubbornness has been 11 years. Getting in my way. That stubbornness is in direct conflict with what you want for your life

or do you want it that's where i'm coming back to do yeah that's true you don't have to want it but i think she does i do i do i do but i do want a very specific version that's the truth like i am not interested in having cash sex. Well, maybe it depends. Oh, my God. No, no. The opposite. Actually, I am not interested in having a person in my bed that I wake up to who doesn't do anything for me.

Oh, well, of course. But like that is not, of course, it is not.... But it's not of course. It is not of course. I think many people, and I also think this is totally fine, but I think a lot of people... Are scared of being lonely. Yeah, and it's not even... Like that's a real thing.

Loneliness is a real thing and companionship is a real thing. And a lot of people just want a companion and they want a buddy that's there and I don and they want a buddy that's there. And I don't just want a buddy that's there. But there's nothing wrong with that. These are different palates, different taste buds. There's nothing wrong with that.

Some people want someone to go through life with and it doesn't, they don't like need to be super stimulated by them. They don't need to be, you know, have butterflies all the time. And by the way, that's great. That's what they want. And what you want is someone who intellectually physically emotionally stimulates you great so it's a high bar but it's gonna be great when you find it but if you never look for it you know you never buy a lottery ticket you're never gonna win and also the frogs she has to go through some

frogs oh my god monica can i even tell you how many people- Tell us about your frogs. People want to know about them. Oh God. I've dated a lot. I shouldn't say a lot. Well, yeah, a lot of people where I've gone out on one, maybe two dates and just been like, absolutely not. You just don't, you don't stimulate me.

If I have someone who's like too nice, just like not, and really by too nice, I just mean not funny. Like if you're not seeing's like too nice. Yeah. Just like not. And really by too nice, I just mean not funny. Like if you're not seeing the funny things in the room that I'm seeing or the funny things on Earth or you can't joke about things, not in a mean way, but just in a way of like. You're paying attention. Paying attention. Then I just can't. I can't suffer through that. I'm very much like you.

And it's kind of shocking that I've had as many long term relationships as I've had. like you and it's kind of shocking that I've had as many long-term relationships as I've had but I have definitely very familiar with that feeling of like sitting across from the table with someone and going this person is such a catch and I'm gonna throw him back yeah because I do not want it I also I'm okay being lonely sleeping in my own bed so there's no way I'm inviting that person back to my house for average conversation or no, yeah, sort of weird fun stimulation. Yeah, because you have had multiple long-term, like have you had much time just being single?

Not really, no. Yeah. How long? Not really. Like three months? Like never. Like one day. Wait, did you have back to backs? Okay. I had a high school sweetheart who was also sort of dating another girl in high school on and

off. It was like three months with me, three months with her, three months with me, three months with her, a year with me, a year with her. And I was just like, you know what? Pass. No, but he's lovely. And then I got to college and I had a boyfriend for like a boyfriend, a sexual partner for two months and then hung around with a couple of people. And at the end of my first year, dated someone for two years. Then I had about five months single that dated someone for three and a half years. Then had about three months single, then dated someone for three and a half years then had about three months single then dated someone for five years and then had three months single and then found ax got it wow so it has been but i've gone on dates and that's what i mean you just you know in your gut and i know that you know in your gut

like i know in my gut yeah and that's okay to be like, oh, this isn't for me. And I've also had one night stands and there's nothing wrong with that. Just being like, tonight, we're going to fuck. And that's going to be the end of it. And it's going to be great. And then it's going to be over. Yeah. I think I would like to see you, because I know you're a sexual person,

I would like to see you, because I know you're a sexual person, but I don't think you are inviting people to participate in sexuality. It's not as familiar to have it be a partnership. You don't throw it around. No. Right? Like you can feel sexy and beautiful and all these things, but you don't necessarily involve anyone else in that. That's true.

So have we ever talked about your boobs on this show? I'm the only that's seen them that's true you're the only one in this room that has seen them and let me tell you something and i know i can say this because a i just can monica's boobs are the only boobs in the world that i've ever seen when she takes her bra off they go up it's as if they're they're anti-gravity they actually go up like a half an inch and i was my jaw was on the ground i was like how did they do that she un-snapped her bra and they went are we gonna be seen it was anyone who's contacting her on raya they are the most beautiful boobs you could you couldn't draw a boob this good they're the most beautifully proportionate gorgeous boobs I've ever seen so I'm saying these things not to share them with the community

although now the community knows I'm saying these things because I think you need to talk and hear about things like this more often I think you have been in a place of against objectification which I totally agree with for so long that now somehow it feels weird or harmful to be involved in that kind of thing and going like, I have a hot body, which you do. And saying that in your head, you know, I look great in this or I have literally the best boobs in Los Angeles. Right. And then I think after that step of you feeling it comes involving other people I have a mom from preschool who just went out with her recently divorced mom friend and she was sitting at dinner and the recently divorced mom friend said give me one second I'll be right back and

went into the bathroom at the restaurant and then came back to the table and said, I sometimes flirt with this bartender and I often leave my underwear in there for him. What? But hold on. Oh my God. He loves it. She loves it.

They both feel sexy. This mom is like divorced and ready to mingle. And she was feeling herself and I was like fuck yes if you want to leave your panties for someone go for it and I would like to see you open yourself up a little bit more like that like have you ever left your panties for someone to find just because you know it's like a treat it's like sometimes like leaving a $10 bill on the ground knowing you're going to make someone's day. But okay. But okay.

I hear what you're saying. I like this train of thought. But she obviously already built something with that bartender in order for it was he wasn't a stranger. And then she just gave him her underwear like they flirt. And at some point part of the flirtation was huh i'm gonna take off my underwear for him like that's fun and i can see that but you have to get there the problem is for me is even starting getting to the point what would happen if you just left him there what if you went to it you can't get arrested for first of all. Then everyone at Home Depot would be arrested, okay?

Because people shit their pants all the time in Home Depot. I know it. Dax comes out of the Home Depot bathroom having shit his pants and says there's so many underwear in the Home Depot men's room. Garbage can. Ew, ew. So it's not an arrestable offense, I can confirm. But, like, I'm just saying it's the feelings involved you

need more butterflies jess needs less and you need more so like what so what if you didn't know who you were leaving him for who cares run through a scenario in your mind of someone who could find them and feel sexy about it i think she's saying be titillated in the bathroom and take your underwear doesn't matter for who. It's about you. I'm not. I'm saying let's start lighting Monica's sexual fuse and then we can involve other people. You could walk by the men's bathroom, just toss them in.

Just open the door and throw them in? Yes. Do you know how exciting that would be? And Rob, if you were in a men's room and you saw a pair of gorgeous ladies panties on the ground would you be like puke or would you be like oh i would not be like right you'd be like somebody's fucking feeling cute today and somebody just had butterflies i want to check the tapes yeah exactly or would you be like call the cops this is an arrestable offense. I'm just saying there's fun ways to feel sexual. You're right.

Because I can feel sexual alone. But that's on the edge for sure. But that's still in the category of what's already happening. Where it's like, yeah. Yeah, but you just asked for baby steps. I gave you a baby step and now you're saying it's already happening. No, you need to do things outside your comfort zone that involve you feeling your own sexuality and what you can deliver to the world.

Like one of your challenges this week, why don't you just stand in the mirror and look at your boobs every morning for at least 60 seconds and just be like, God damn. 60 seconds and just be like, God damn. Just take them in because I don't think you realize what is attached to your body and how gorgeous it is. Okay. That's a challenge. Monica and Jess Love Boys is supported by BetterHelp Online Counseling. Often life is stressful for everyone. No one can escape that. And we all need a little help when we're feeling down or overwhelmed and we might not know where to go or who to ask for it. BetterHelp is available for you.

BetterHelp offers licensed counselors who specialize in issues including depression and anxiety, as well as complicated relationships, family relationships, sleeping, grief, stress, trauma, anger. I mean, look, all of these things add up to your overall mental health and you need that to be good and strong. And there's no shame in getting help. I get help all the time. So do I. I just emailed my therapist this morning and said, I need to come see you now. It's important. You can connect privately with a counselor through text, chat, phone, and video calls and get help on your own time at your own pace at an affordable rate. Monica and Jess Love Boys listeners will get 10% off their first month with the discount code MONICA. That's betterhelp.com slash MONICA. Why not get help? betterhelp.com slash monica we are supported by raycon look around

it's a wireless world it is 2020 it is the future there are no wires and raycon is amazing amazing they're really good they're very comfortable i use them every day you know i go to the gym every morning yes you do and I jog and I treadmill. And they stay in. Yeah. And you know what's awesome about these Raycon ones is they start at half the price of these other premium wireless earbuds, which earbuds are expensive. These are half the price and they truly are just as amazing as the other top audio brands that you know. And Raycon's latest model, E25, is their best one yet. That's the one I had.

Six hours of playtime, seamless Bluetooth pairing, more bass, and a more compact design that gives you a nice noise isolating fit. It's awesome. The company was co-founded by Ray J and celebrities like Snoop Dogg, Cardi B, Melissa Etheridge, they are obsessed with Raycon. So pick up a pair and see what the hype is all about. Now's the time to get the latest and greatest from Raycon. Get 15% off your order at buyraycon.com slash monica. That's B-U-Y-R-A-Y-C-O-N dot com slash monica for 15% off Raycon wireless earbuds. Buy Raycon.com slash Monica. Okay, I want to tell a story that happened yesterday. So I saw Marriage Story, which was good, really good.

And I'm watching it and I was like, oh my God, Adam Driver. Adam Driver's so cute. Look at Adam Driver. Oh, he took his shirt off. Oh my God, he Driver. Adam Driver's so cute. Look at Adam Driver. Oh, he took his shirt off. Oh my God, he's hot. And I'm thinking about that the whole time. Then after I'm like, God, he's so attractive and he's so hot.

And then I'm building a fantasy where he's mine and I'm thinking about it all day into the night. And then I watch this. I mean, this is such an embarrassing story. Then I watched him on some talk shows and at the end of like the third talk show, I think he was on Stephen Colbert. He was like, oh, you know, I'm watching this movie. And the first thing I did after I watched it was Google are you married and you are and he's like yeah I am and I was so actually disappointed and sad by this fantasy that I created that was then crushed but was never real and this is a pattern I've done my whole life.

And I kind of felt like I hadn't done that in a long time. And it sort of re-instigated that thing of, oh my God, I'm always doing this. I'm always creating a safe life. That's not a real life that I live in all the time. And I can go there and visit it and come out of it and go back and it feels good and then I just started crying because I was like why is this me we just have to get you to get that out of your head because it exists clearly.

Coming up with those scenarios is so fun. I mean, I started doing that with Jonathan Taylor Thomas when I was 10 years old and it like pretty much never stopped. Same. But it is incredibly vulnerable to bring it out of your mind and put it into real people. But what you have to remember, nothing is at stake. So you meet someone and you might like them more and they don't. Great. Well, you didn't have a relationship before you met them. So it's the same stakes, you know, like it's okay to bring those fantasies out of your real life. And it might not be Adam Driver driver but it's like the bartender at whatever like choosing a real human form to interact with it feels really vulnerable it's so scary but it's a little selfish

because you are refusing to share yourself with anyone else and you are such an unbelievable catch it's kind of selfish that when people are swimming in the pond, they're looking for monikas and you're afraid to swim right now, which is okay. But I just want you to recognize that like, I want you so badly to want to share yourself with the world because I know you want the end result of that, which is like just a stable, fun relationship. And you just it's there's nothing more to it than you just got to jump off the diving board into that pond.

It's going to feel scary and just you got to get over it. And what is that? Is that having a more sexual vibe, sexual versus intellectual? No, I don't think because that would be changing her personality. And like, I don't think you need to like start wearing low cut tops. I mean, I wouldn't. I mean, I don't think her, because that would be changing her personality. And like, I don't think you need to like start wearing low cut tops. I mean, I wouldn't. I mean, I wear a tight shirt. I would like that.

I rescind that. I wouldn't hate it. I'd like it. But I, no, I don't think anything about your personality needs to change. Your personality is perfect. It's your actions. The actions of, there's no other better way to say it than putting yourself out there. I think a really good challenge would be handing your phone number to someone

and saying, I've never done this before. I'm trying to put myself out there. Here's my number if you'd like to call it. And you walk away. Is that really my challenge? I think so, yeah. Well, let me tell you something. Let's make this a safe place first.

Let's say he's not interested. Then you walk away. You never have to think about that experience again. You don't have to ever see that person again. There's no stakes. Let's say he looks at the number and he is interested. Then there's a little bit of stakes because you got to get ready for a date. And he might call.

But there's literally only good things could come out of it. I would like to see you hand your phone number just physically. And it just has to be visual like Jess's. Like you just have to like what you see, like the way that they smile, the way that they walk, the way that they're interacting with other people. Could be like a waiter who is just like a Jess who's just bright. And you're like, oh, that person seems like they might have something wonderful inside. And, and then I want you to keep a pad and paper in your purse. And I want you to be able to, you're an unbelievable writer. I know that to be a fact,

you can write a couple, you can write just your phone number and hand it to them. Please put your name down. Don't be a doofus. And then you can either say, I've never done this before, but I'm really trying to put myself out there. Here's my number. Or you could write that on the paper, but I do want you to hand it directly to the person. There's none of this, like, I'm going to leave it on the table and hope they find it. hand it directly to the person there's none of this like i'm gonna leave it on the table and hope they find it it's this or the panties what which one oh panties panties panties panties i mean panties is safer safer much safer because that involves me not having to interact right i think it should be the phone number okay just hand Just hand it to decide. Yeah. Hand your phone number to one person. Okay.

Okay. Wow. Did you have any relationship patterns that were negative that you had to break? Well, yeah. Before I met Dax, I was always really jealous because I had a ton of insecurity about, I don't know. I just had a ton of insecurities, but I was also confident, but I kept the confidence as the sort of faux layer on the outside. And I wasn't secure enough anytime my boyfriends were interacting with ex-girlfriends. because he had a relationship for nine years before me. Brie. Brie. Her name was Brie and she's lovely. And he catches up with Brie probably like, I don't know, once a year or something.

And it's like an hour long conversation because they adore each other and great. They spent nine years together and she's wonderful. And the first couple months we were dating when he would talk to her, I hated it. And I hated that I hated it. I was embarrassed because like he was kind of evolved and I guess I made like snide comments a couple times and then I kind of just told him I'm like I'm uncomfortable that you talked to Brie and he was like why and I was like just because she's

your ex-girlfriend so she's not your girlfriend anymore and he's like okay and is she she's still a human being on planet earth that I interacted with and that I'd like to catch up with once in a while and I was like yeah but she also has this other label and that label is off limits. He sat me down and he said, what scares you about me talking to Brie? And I hated that question. And the reality was I thought that he would still be treating her on the level of a girlfriend. And I thought that specifically because he and Brie had an open relationship. And that scared me a ton because he was able to date other people

while he was dating Brie. And in my head, I thought, how is this any different? You're dating me, but you're still talking to Brie. This is literally like what was happening in the nine years you were together. Now, I had no right to say that because I don't know how they constructed

the inner workings of their- I thought it was more sex than dating. Yes, but in my head, I don't, girls tend not to, and I certainly don't, like go right to sex. Like I would way more rather have an emotional affair with someone than I would like a sexual affair, you know? But I think I said, I am nervous

you're gonna treat her like a girlfriend and she's gonna get the same privileges as me. And I'm earning being your number one. And I want to know that I have the focus there. And I think I said the example of like, I'm worried that if you don't detach, you're going to be the first call she has when she has a flat tire. At this point in our relationship. Now, I hope he stops for everyone that he sees. I was about to say that's so interesting right now right but in this is the first couple months and I thought I want to be the only person that you do that for the only girl that you would drop everything for and he was like I'm glad you said that example I can guarantee you right now I'm not going to be that person or I don't think I would actually be the first person on her speed dial. And I did trust him because he had earned my trust at that point with some brutal honesty. And basically, he just talked me through what my fears about his relationship with Brie were and then confirmed to me that none of them existed. And I was thankfully evolving at the time enough to take his word for it but I had

had a previous pattern that I feel like my mom also had and she told me about where because of insecurities I would create these little tests for people to say like well if you loved me enough you would do this or if he loved me enough he would call here or he would show up here or he would what insert whatever answer there and if he didn't then I was well I was right exactly and my mom is common I think very common and you do not realize it until someone says it to you don't create tests for people ever my mom said to me at one point you know the reason your father and I broke up and that, you know, my mom has had a lot of relationships.

She said, I spent my life basically telling guys, well, you're going to leave me. You're going to leave me. You're going to leave me. You're going to leave me. And then when they do, well, I was right. Told you so. Told you so. And then there's a weird vindication there that you feel good about.

It's the trickiest emotion to navigate. You just have to really, I learned to let my partners be themselves and not judge so much and not relate every one of their actions back to me, but rather try to focus on my actions towards them. Am I treating them how I think they should be treated? Yeah, because there's a safety net there when you get broken up with or something if you've already told yourself that that's coming you feel better because it's like I was always smarter than this anyway as opposed to letting

it just like rip from the rug from under you and it's a yeah it's a really weird it's like you're just manifesting your own destiny so I was very then I stopped doing that and I learned it's so annoying to admit but I learned the majority of stuff about relationships from Dax about sort of taking yourself out of the situation your ego out of the situation and really just looking at your side of the street when I was crying for many many months over Greg I don't know how it came up. Do you know what the best part about my wife is? He said that to me, Dax.

And I go, no, what? If I left her, she'd be fine. And I never forgot that ever in my life because you're this whole complete person and Dax is this whole complete person. And I just definitely was not a whole and complete person once Greg broke up with me and I was in whole for a while. And I go, oh my God, I am going to be a whole complete person in my next relationship. And I'm still not there yet, but I'll never forget that. I think a lot of people

fall into a relationship pattern where they're, I mean's it's like cliche. It's in quotes of like looking for my other half. You complete me. That's baloney. Your other half is a trap. You don't need another half. You are a whole person. You want someone that that does make you a better version of yourself. But because of the challenges, not because they're, you know, completing your puzzle. You are a complete puzzle. Yeah. But that's where me and Monica are struggling because we have full, complete, rich, happy lives. And we are single. So, and I really struggle as the heteronormative thing, which is that everyone needs a relationship to be happy or that this is going to be the thing that I need or to grow old with a partner. And I fight it because I believe that because I grew up in America.

But I also I can't make that my holy grail. For me, I think I used to tell myself that. I used to tell myself that all the time like I don't really need that do I need it is it something that I even really want and I think that was a defense mechanism to be honest because I do not need anyone to complete me but I do want a partner to go through life with yeah just that's a special connection to that you want to tell them everything and that they make you better. Someone who's constantly challenging you to be better. Otherwise, you can just sit, which I did this week, eat a whole box of mac and cheese by myself.

Well, I did throw broccoli in, so it was healthy. But, you know, like you can fall into so many patterns when there's nobody there. I want you to have that more than anything because of what I feel like it made. When I've been in love two or three times, I evolved and I changed and I became a different person and a better person. And I want that for you so bad. Just for that experience, it's a whole nother level. You know, it is a whole nother level you know it is a whole nother level falling in love even those breakups even those the letters and the texts and the whatever it's

not even if it's not butterflies a relationship is better loved and lost what's the saying better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all yes and i do believe that i i agree but part of it is just committing to like we have one ride on earth we're here one time feel all the emotions don't be scared of the bad ones yeah uh i mean don't like cut yourself on purpose but like you know don't be scared of the bad ones like despair and loneliness and heartbreak. We are so lucky to live in a place where we have a roof over our head, where we have opportunities for jobs, where we have a support system and a friendship circle. That is like I don't know what the numbers are, but a drastic amount of the world doesn't have that. amount of the world doesn't have that we should be so lucky to experience heartbreak to be so lucky to even be able to focus on heartbreak and work through it with our support systems

because there are like you know girls you married at 11 years old in other countries and it's forced and they never get to like we we have a privilege that we're allowed to even talk about these things right now we we have an obligation to the other human beings in the world that don't have this kind of a privilege to be willing to go through the heartbreak. Yeah. That's good.

Jess needs a, Jess needs a challenge. Against the rules, but I did think of one for myself. No, you can't give yourself challenges. No, I'm not going to give it to,

can I say what I thought about? I thought about change, maybe even I'll do it for myself. Yeah. I thought about changing my age parameters for all my apps to only seeing 40 to 50 year olds i think that's great i think that's fantastic so i can't even see they won't even pop up yeah younger than i don't do you think 40 because i'm i'm 43 do you think 40 to 50 is good or 38 or 38 i'm already going lower no but you like 22 you are

very young at heart you are very young at heart so i would say you could do what are the age parameters you have on now zero no age parameters oh wow okay no no 21 but no no they just i don't have you don't need to be first of all no, this is definitely your challenge. You'll just do this. You should just do this on your own, a personal challenge. 37 to 50. 37 to 50? Yeah. Okay.

I got one. I want you to put some form of looking for a relationship in your bio of your apps. Be the people that you, you don't have to be as like strict as the people that you feel are inflexible. Like only looking for my long term ride or die. You don't have to put that. But just looking for a relationship. And see if your interactions change. He doesn't want to do it.

My issue is with, I hate this. I match with 5,000 bottoms. Every single bottom in LA matches with me. And you guys can't ever switch, right? A lot of versatile. I hate, this is so embarrassing. Also, people don't know this part. And it's important to talk about because I would like to A, understand it, not feel like

in the dark about one of my friend's love lives or something. Yeah, like I know. I'm a 97% bottom. Okay. A lot of people are 50-50, which is verse. A lot of people are just tops. So you don't find out when you meet up, you don't go like, who's going to do what? You clear all that up before you meet up you don't go like who's gonna do what you clear all that up before

you meet okay like they're not like deciding in the moment like who wants to do what today it's like they're that's what happens in straight relationships what's on the books i'm tired make it quick there's versatile guys there's a lot of versatile guys versatile guys will have sex with me but they won't date me because versatile guys like to it's called flip where you flip back and forth and you won't be a top i've tried um it's not for you it's not for me and this actually should be talked about because i don't think people are born with what they are bottoms usually are bottoms not because they love it but because they became a bottom because they either lose their boners or get nervous and can't top and okay and i got in my head when i lost my virginity at 30 and i got in my head the first couple times i was with a guy lost my boner and that freaked me

out because i don't lose my boner when i'm masturbating. Like it's nice and fine. And my testosterone levels are nice and fine. But when I was with the guy the first couple times, I lost my boner. And then I go, nope, I do not like that. So I became a bottom. Which, by the way, happens all the time. They don't have the option to go, oh, I won't do this now. Straight guys to figure it out.

They have to get Viagra if they have to do whatever. I didn't have to do that. I said, I'll become a bottom. So you need to open up your options. Also, like there's more than just actual sex. So if you lose your boner, why can't you then just give him a blowjob? Yeah. On a date or a sexual encounter, sure.

him a blowjob. Yeah. On a date or a sexual encounter, sure. But I'm talking about a long term relationship that has to be compatible. And my last three boyfriends have been. And that is something that I would not want to have to finagle my whole life. I want that to be like, this is on paper and this is good and that's gonna be no problem now where'd you go to school where'd you go to college we don't have to think about that stuff because that part was great analogies are for the birds and so are mine and i love you what are you talking about where do you think about go to college no i see it because i don't i want to get all that out of the way okay those the dick pics yeah are you a top blah blah are you single then we get to the to to mess all and then we start getting to know the sisters and brothers and serious question because

i am understanding would there be a problem what's the vulnerability if you don't work out the top bottom ahead of time the comparison in a straight relationship is like, I don't like oral or I don't like missionary or whatever. And I'm just like not interested in doing that. But there's plenty of different ways to do it as there are in the gay community. I've gone on dates with first guys and I've been in bed with him a couple of times and it was lackluster. Okay. And I've, and. So it's something that does need to be decided ahead of time for me and i i don't like that about myself a lot of guys are like god you're so hot or show this or that i wish you were verse i'm like me too is my response it's totally fine if that's what it is but it sounds like it might not be the

case you just decided something very early on out of an insecurity yes and so you might be closing the door on half the people because of something that you could potentially like but you feel safe you feel safe okay great that's fine i feel very insecure that's totally fine i wanted you to put the word looking for a relationship right in your bio and the ages i really like the ages because yeah here here is. Your pond is too big. Your pond is too small. You need to make your pond smaller. You need to make your pond bigger, Monica. So Jess, you need to dwindle out some of these. Because every time you have sex with a guy, he comes over. That energy that could be spent maybe looking in a different emotional area for a partner is being sucked away by that experience.

And yes, that's great and it's super fun, but it's gonna fizzle. You know, just like when he knocks on the door, you guys exchange water and then have sex and then he leaves. So it's like, why not make a commitment to conserving some of your energy and just for like a little while, a couple months, put it into seeing if you can find a relationship. So put the age parameter on there, 37 to 50 and put looking for a relationship and then just see what happens because you don't have to commit to it forever. If in two months you don't like it, then put, you know, only interested in ages 21 to 23 and no long-term relationships, you know, go back to that in your bio or whatever okay kristen your challenge what's my challenge our mom for the rest of our lives feed me forever

always i'm trying to think if i had any more dating anything well i think what something people might not know about me is that i have had one night stands. Yeah, that's nice of you to share that. Yeah. And I don't have any problem with it. Also, I had a lot of bad habits when I was younger because I was egotistical and I was an attention hog and I wanted their focus to be on me. And I wasn't making room for the other beautiful people that also live on Earth. And I was able to see that through Dax and Brie. And I was very grateful for it. Because now I realize that I'm not losing anything by Dax keeping up and maintaining a nice relationship with Brie. I'm actually gaining a better guy. I have a guy I'm so lucky to have a guy who still cares about a woman that he spent nine years with.

I agree. Whether I like her or not, like Brie could be a totally vicious person, which she's not. She's incredible. But she could be someone I disliked. Yeah. And I still would feel now where I am lucky to have a man who doesn't throw that nine years in the garbage. the man who doesn't throw that nine years in the garbage.

I think that we, as human beings, we really easily fall into this catty sense of... Ownership. Ownership. And if that person cheats on you, get him out or get her out. And it's just, it's not real. It's not deep enough. It's much more complicated than that. Yeah.

And it's like, you know, it goes back to the, you know, they say in AA sometimes or things I've heard through the community you know let's say we had a group of girlfriends and a guy cheated on her we'd be like girl get him out of your life and that would be so easy for us to say but if that woman's husband uh drove the kids drunk right yeah our immediate reaction would be you need to be there for him while he gets sober. He's got to have a stable you. And I'm like,

what the fuck are we talking about? I would so much rather Dax cheats on me than ever drives my kids inebriated because at that point he is risking the lives of my children. That's a perplexing question to pose to people

because no one ever asks themselves that. Well, they would say, I mean, I 100% agree with you. And they would say, well, he is risking the lives, not their actual lives, but their day-to-day lives because they're risking us getting a divorce and messing up their whole life. But that's so easy to say. Sure, but it's not nearly as bad. And we all got to come to terms with the fact that that's not nearly as bad. And also, everybody has to terms with the fact that that's not nearly as bad and also everybody has different relationships right some people do have open relationships and i think some people it works for some people it doesn't and i think it's it's but cheating does make you feel old ugly not wanted un unlikable If someone was drinking, I 100% agree with you too.

But I do know what my ex-boyfriend wanted to have an open relationship after six months. One of them. It was the saddest thing ever. And I actually let him go off and get his dick sucked. It never really was back from that. It made me feel old and not likable and not cute. As much as the driving drunk is the worst thing, of course, what that person did makes that person feel...

That person is allowing themselves to feel that way. No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. You have to consent to it. And the other one we're talking about is he did risk the lives of the children if he drives them drunk. There's no arguing that. One is an emotional argument. One is a factual argument.

The factual argument, yes, it could trigger you to feel old and unworthy and unsexy and all these things. But those human beings have to take responsibility. That comes from inside. And everybody can deal with it a different way. Look, if he cheats on you, kick to the curb if you want if you want great sit him down and say don't you ever do that again slap his face and then be done with it or say to him do you want to have an open relationship i mean whatever there's a thousand ways to deal with it but it's up to those people there cannot be a society standard of how we should deal with it and

currently there is there's like these things we should deal with it. And currently there is. There's like these things we fall into, these patterns where this is how you handle it. There is no this is how you handle it. Every relationship is different. I think that's what I've learned over the last five or 10 years. The bottom line is we are monkeys. We all have sexual desires. I'm sexually attracted to people. So is Dax. And we talk about it. We don't like come home and share a bunch of specifics. But the other day we were sitting in the kitchen and I was like, how many people do you think you're attracted to and want to have sex with a month? And then he was like, huh? I was like, repeated it. I said, for me, it's like, I don't know,

10, 15. He's like, yeah, for me, about 30. And I was like, great, but that doesn't have anything to do with me. That has to do with the fact that Dax is a monkey. Yeah. And monkeys see things that they like. They did a study on, I think it was macaques. They did a study on macaques, and this is part of why we want to look to our alphas all the time. They showed macaques either a picture of their alpha or they'd get a juice box. And they love juice boxes. Every single time they chose a picture of their alpha or they'd get a juice box and every and they love juice boxes every single

time they chose a picture of their alpha over the juice box every single time just staring at a picture of the alpha in the group when they tried to show them a picture of a beta in the group they literally wouldn't look at it they would not look at it and the only thing that they chose over the juice box and the picture of the alpha was a picture of the female macaque's genitalia. We are monkeys. Yeah, for sure. Well, and that's the other thing, what you were saying, Jess, it makes you feel unsexy.

It makes you feel, that really is making it about you. And cheating is often, according to Esther Perel, not about that person. It's about the person who cheated. I mean, it could be a million reasons why, but mainly it's about that person wanting to connect to another part of themselves that's not getting tapped. That has nothing to do with you, has nothing to do with the partner. It's connecting to an old version of themselves, maybe connecting to a new version of themselves that they haven't explored yet. And let me say something even crazier. You can choose to love someone through even an experience like them wanting to get to know a part of their personality with another person. Like if Dax cheated on me, I have a couple choices. I could kick him to the curb.

I could tell him not to do it again. Or I could say, interesting, why did you do that? Because here's the thing that people don't realize. If you're leaving someone, if he's leaving me for another woman, enter the heartbreak. That sucks. But if he just slipped up or something, I can choose to go through that with him and say, what were you exploring?

Where are you feeling empty? Like you can choose to love someone through that. All of your love doesn't disappear because that person was desiring to explore a different part of themselves. Yeah, and there is this collective cultural stigma on a woman who does that because it makes them, quote, weak, which is so unfair because you're so strong to disagree. Yeah, me too. But that's that's what we've placed on it is like that person staying with them. And right. What? Yeah, because they're in love. They have a relationship. They built something together and to throw it away. love they have a relationship they've built something together and to throw it away exactly and by the way let me say i'm not shaming any woman who did kick anyone to the curb right every again i can't stress this strongly enough everyone's relationship is different if you feel you got to kick the person to the curb kick them to the curb but i just i want people to know that there is an option of forgiveness and love through it out there. That choice is always there.

Sidebar on the gay community is that half the people I talk to have open relationships. There's usually three or five years in, it just becomes open. I've never experienced it. I think it's not for me, but who knows what I would be like in five years. Funny story, I had been talking to this one guy. He was a bit older. He was like 55, really hot. He was visiting for the Atlantis cruise. So that leaves from LA and it's a seven day cruise. He went on the cruise. He came back on Sunday. He came over to my house.

It was really hot. It was really fun. We had sex. I go, how was the cruise? And he goes, it was amazing. I go, how long have you and your husband been together? I knew we had an open relationship. He's like 23 years, like 23 like 23 years that's so amazing you guys both had so much fun he's like it was the best you have to go on one i'm like so what are you doing after this and he goes oh we're gonna head back to lax we're gonna go home to indiapolis and i go oh well where's your husband and he goes, he's in the car. Drove him there. His husband drove him to my house to have sex with me. And then I go, oh, he's in the car just waiting for you. He's like, yeah.

I go, that is some evolved shit. That is some evolved shit. Yeah, sounds really controversial to say. But yeah, that weird compartmentalization of I have an itch that needs to be scratched. I want to do it in a safe, consensual way. I want to make sure you know about it. Nothing is taboo. Nothing is secretive.

The secrets are where the things start crumbling and falling apart. But like that works for them. I actually think the gay community is probably way more evolved in this of saying like, wow, three to five years in, we both have a ton of testosterone and we would like to have sex. Otherwise, we'll be driven crazy. And so how can we do that with the variety that we both want? Well, maybe we could make this agreement. And then think about the practicality of it, though. He's not sitting in the car. He didn't drive him there and then is going to be grumpy the whole time to LAX. He's probably not going to ask him details but I bet they're going to hold hands while they're in the airport. I bet they're

going to snuggle that night in bed. I just don't necessarily see the harm in that. I thought it was pretty awesome. I was like, why didn't he come up? Why didn't he join us? And I never thought I would be a person that argued for open relationships and I'm not. I'm arguing

for assessing everybody's differences and seeing what really being truthful and honest about what works that works for them and I don't have any judgment about it I think it's actually kind of the help probably the healthiest way to handle whatever their desire for sexual variety is while maintaining a massive 23-year commitment and insisted on condoms of course which is great because he is married and he doesn't kiss he didn't kiss either which was like oh that's like pretty woman but i also think it's really nice for people to hear you say that i mean in context of this whole thing and you as a public figure who's trusted and known as being an incredibly evolved person that, you know, you said your hang up was jealousy and you've come so full circle that you're saying this. That like you can change.

You can fix. I mean, that's the point of this podcast. Yes. That is the goal is these patterns. They feel like they're in our blood. Like there's just no separating. You can. You can.

That's where the empowerment comes in. It doesn't matter how your parents look at you or your girlfriends look at you or your guy friends look at you. You have all the power. And I can tell you with ultimate confidence, if Dax or I were ever to cheat on each other, we would get through it because we have made a commitment, a very honest, vulnerable commitment that we want to be on the porch with each other when we're 80. So if one of us were to slip up sexually, we would get through it. We would even get through it if we were like, I'm not sure if I have feelings for the other person. Like we've talked about all

that stuff. We're like, well, I'm not going anywhere. So how are we going to get through this? How do we re-fall in love? How do you handle getting this other person out of your life? How do you go to therapy? If he slipped up in his sobriety, would it be harder than him slipping up with his fidelity? Yeah, big time. Look, both are going to be difficult. I'm also not saying any of these things would be so easy.

I'm saying we've discussed those things. I'm saying we have a plan of attack, which is what you do when you're trying to get sober. You have a plan of attack. Okay, first thing, I'm not going to go hang out at the bar anymore. That'll help me not drink. Like, you have plans. I think they would probably both be hard. I can say with confidence I would rather have him cheat on me than I would

have him break his goal of sobriety and part of that is because I care more about him than I do about my own ego and I would rather have it be a sexual experience that he regrets and not

losing his 15 years of sobriety because he's worked really, really hard on that. Yeah, that's a generous way to look at it and is smart and the truth. But it's also because I know him and I know the way he looks at me and I know our relationship

and how well we have grown to communicate. And I know that even if he sees the most gorgeous woman who has the most perfect body who has a tolerable personality even if something happens I still know he's going to want to be on the porch with me and I know he's going to want to be on the porch with me because I know me yeah that's the difference I know what I'm offering him I don't think people analyze their relationships enough in terms of what am I offering this person. That's where my confidence comes from.

I know what I give him. I know that there is not another woman on this planet who could give him the personality or the stimulating relationship that we have. I know there's not. I know there's someone who's got better boobs than me. Someone's in the room. You know? And someone's taller in the room. Uh-huh. I know there's someone who's got better boobs than me. Someone's in the room. You know? And someone's taller in the room. Uh-huh.

I don't know. These are tricky subjects to talk about because nothing is black and white. There is no one answer to all of these. But I just, it's important to consider that some things are about you, which is your side of the street, and then how your partner reacts isn't necessarily about you at all. And it's a choice to love them through that. Well, that's a good note to end on.

Mommy, thank you for coming and helping us. I feel like I didn't really help at all. Oh my God, you helped a ton. I felt some things. Yeah. I did. Did you tear up at all? No.

I think you did. She's lying. I didn't want to mention it when it was happening. You teared up. I got chills. Yeah. I did. Did you tear up at all? No. I think you did. She's lying. I didn't want to mention it when it was happening. You teared up. I got chills. Yeah. And we will embark on our challenges. It is Thanksgiving.

Yes. So we'll probably have to give ourselves a little longer than we normally do. People will be out of time. Not Jess. Jess can change his profile immediately. My profile is going to say looking for a relationship. And then I can only see 37 to 50 year olds. That's harder than deleting my apps for five days.

All right. I would like to see you go through that for two months. No, no, no, no. I'll do seven days. Absolutely not. No. I'm not doing a two month challenge. Why?

She's doing panties then. You're still going to have your apps. You're going to have the section of the pond that applies to you. This is your mother talking. I don't know if I can do it. You have to. You can. Yes, you can.

Look at me. Stop looking away. Yes, you can. You are swimming all over the pond like a fish on cocaine. And you need to go to your section of the pond to see if there's something there for you. Listen to me. If it doesn't work

and you don't find any fishes, then you take it off. But I'd like to see it happen. Two weeks. Who's giving the challenges here, Jess? Me or you? My son is so lippy. I know.

Three weeks. December 15th. Three weeks. I just want you to swim in your section of the pond. This is this challenge is not about restricting you. This challenge is about finding out because I know you, you are very healthy by yourself. You are an incredibly agile, flexible human being who goes from friend group to friend group, who has like fulfillment around every corner. Is this quote unquote relationship something you actually want? Or are you really totally cool with being alone? Which I would, by the way, believe if you were like, my relationships weren't for me. I love how I handle things. But I want you to swim in your

section of the pond for a minute to realize whether or not that is for you. Okay. I can only see certain amount of people, but they can see me. So a 28 year old can still say hi to me and talk to me. Oh, can he say yes? Sure. I want this to be about what you're putting out into the world, but I'm not telling the world how to treat you. I'm telling you the challenge is how you represent yourself. I want you to look at your bio when you open it and it will say in a relationship and feel the feelings of what that feels like to put that out there. But if a 28 year old contacts you, I'm not saying that's off limits because that 28 year old might be super evolved and actually might

be the right person for you. Nothing's off the table. But as far as what you are putting out into the world, I want you to know that that's in there because you're attempting to swim to your end of the pond. My Tinder and my Grindr are deleting my bios and all it's going to say is looking for a relationship. My thing now is very long. What does it say? Just a list of things that I am. Oh shit, we got to do that

next time. Make our pizzas? Yeah, we should make pizzas. What? Our friend Jack, he says, what's on your pizza? What do you want on your pizza? And you can have like, I want someone who's conscientious, someone who is good style, someone who's funny, who's interested in charitable giving.

Like you can have all these tiny little slices of your pizza to make up your person. But you guys have the opposite problem because, Monica, you have a lot of things that you're looking for and you're putting that out there. tiny little slices of your pizza to make up your person. But you guys have the opposite problem because Monica, you have a lot of things that you're looking for and you're putting that out there. What you, you have the list in your head that when you think about dating, the first thing that comes to you is the list of things that you want from

another person. And Jess, you're the polar opposite. When you think about dating, you go, okay, I'm fun. I'm flirty.

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. And you two have got to switch. That's true. You need to start thinking about what you can offer the world

because it's insanely selfish that you're not giving it out to people. And you need to think about what do you want? What does Jess want to receive? We know what you can give. What do you want to receive? Yeah. Well, we'll report back. Yes.

And this was great. This will be the hardest challenge for me We've had two This will 100% be the hardest challenge for me Going up to a If you had to do that you'd freak out too I would a little bit but once I did it I would be done

Mine is a continue He's always competing for his challenge to be worse It's so annoying You guys you're the Bickerson's You're just like my other two kids The Bickerson's Bickerson's Alrighty I'm proud of you guys and I know you can do it, but I do want you guys to seriously think about changing the glasses that you're wearing with each other. Monica, I want you to think about what you can give, not what you want.

What can you offer someone? What are all of Monica's great qualities? And just what you want to receive from someone, what they can give you. I think that would help you guys feel balanced a little bit more. Okay. That's good. Where do you get the glasses? Will you buy us some glasses? Yes, of course. Okay.

Love you. Love you. Love you. you