Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Race to 35: Day 3 + Emily Oster + January Jones

Episode Date: October 26, 2022

Monica and Liz are owning their dumbness in episode 3 (of 10) of Race to 35. They discuss last night's shots which were an utter disaster involving Monica giving Liz a proper stabbing. They talk to Emily Oster, American author and professor of economics at Brown, who talks about how to apply the principles of economics to fertility and pregnancy. She applies cost/benefit, optimizing the margin and opportunity cost to their egg freezing journey. They also speak to a friend of the pod, actress January Jones, who discusses her personal experience with egg freezing and solo parenting. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The first time I came here, the fact that three years later I'd be here freezing my eggs with you. I thought that so many times. I've had so many visions of you being here. Because this is where I was sitting. You were sitting there and as the expert, you were here as an expert, which you are one. And it's kind of fascinating because we're so not experts. But it also feels like no one's really an expert in this. Well, yes. Right?

Exactly. It feels like no one really knows. Everyone's kind of going at it blind. Yeah. And just like trying out stuff. Spaghetti on the wall is egg freezing. For me, it's empowering to have someone like you who was here as an expert and was so smart and so interesting and to not have all the answers to everything. Like we don't. And it's okay that we don't. I think women feel a lot of the time like you have to be smart and you have to be knowledgeable and you have to be everything. It's okay to be like, I am an expert in this area

and I don't know shit about this other thing. I feel like women always are okay to be like, I am an expert in this area and I don't know shit about this other thing. I feel like women always are expected to be more together or are punished more heavily when we're not. But I also think it's of this era that we're supposed to know everything because the information is everywhere. So somehow you're supposed to be absorbed all of it. I feel like five years ago, I didn't used to have panic if someone would talk about something I didn't know about or a new story I hadn't read about or like this cool article that everyone's reading or this meme and I'm like, oh God, oh God, I'm not in it. I agree with you that this feels so different from what I know I'm used to doing where I have to come in and pretend like I'm way smarter than I am. I just get to be as dumb as I

am. I just get to be dumb at this. We get to own our dumbness. It makes you so open to learning. Yeah, that's so true. So I think it's kind of like an overall good principle to like not go into anything with like, I already know. You ask better questions and I think you're receiving information in a different way because yeah, sometimes you're like, if I ask this question, they're going to know how much I don't know or be discovered or whatever. That's why children are the coolest people to talk to. Yeah. Because they'll just ask anything and you're like, I've never heard that before. It's so perfect. Yeah. Speaking of children, I'm going to play this.

People from Armchair know my old roommate and very good friend, Anthony, and his wife, Allison. They know we're going through this process and their daughter sent me this and I'm going to play it. Okay, you can do it. You are awesome. It's so cute. It is so cute. And we're going to play this. We're going to play this every night. We forgot to play it last night, but we have to play it every night before we do our shots. Yes. You can do it. They should put a sound on the injection when it goes through. You can do it. It just rewards you with that sound. We have notes. Speaking of injections. Oh my God. Oh my God. We had an

evening last night. So, well, first of all, you had a tough day. I had a tough day. I really did. It got worse after you left too. I really cried a lot. I just cried. After I left last night? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And before too. All day. I started out with you. Like we were synced in our mania. We were totally. Dripping coffee all over ourselves. Like, LOL, like we're a wreck. And then I went to lethargic. I just got really tired. But then I got really depressed. I was already a little bit sensing that morning that, again, I was like, I can't listen to Taylor Swift right now. It's making me too sensitive. And I was like, that's weird.

And then it got progressively worse. I do struggle with different little things. Me too. And so it's that. We kind of talked about it yesterday. It was like getting my period times 100. I was just in bed crying like a meme. But this morning I woke up, I was actually relieved. I woke up,

I didn't want to get out of bed and I was feeling depressed. But then once I got up, I'm feeling okay now. I'm feeling good actually. Okay, good. I'm happy to hear that. I feel also normal today. Okay. I'm having a very interesting ride because I also am very, very sensitive to hormonal change. I flash out at people and I'm sad and all of these things. And so I was very much anticipating this experience to be like so sad and for me to be like really weepy. And so far, I am not sad at all. It's very strange. I was lethargic and very tired once the mania dropped off.

It like had a hard drop off. Me too. I was in the middle of lunch and all of a sudden I was like, yes, I had to light out. Yeah. Yeah. I had a moment where I was in the kitchen and maybe it was just because it was a long day or something. I don't know. I was standing in the kitchen. I was like, I feel lonely. But I wasn't sad. It was strange. My brain was like, you are lonely. But my body wasn't like responding to it. It was weird. It's like you got tempted by the hormones or like the anxiety was like, let me see what I can. And then you were like, nope, I'm not going down that path. I guess. It was odd. I feel like I'm kind of hovering above myself through this process and like observing from above, which is kind of interesting. Are you on antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication?

I was like, I have been. Yeah. And I was going to get on again, but then I decided not to just to make this more fun. And that was something I was kind of thinking about last night. And then also I had an appointment with my therapist today, but I canceled it because it conflicts with our interview. Oh no, but it's okay. It's like, I'm doing all the right things. I'm not. I'm going to start crying, but like, I just hate. We need to have a ding for, okay. I love it so much that I don't want to, I'm afraid to fly because I'm afraid you'll stop.

But the amount of times that you say, I think I'm going to start crying. It's so wonderful. You're like Kristen, what sign are you? What's your sign? Pisces. Oh, are Pisces criers a lot? Oh, you see, I mean, we're the most.

I don't know enough. What's Kristen? Cancer. Oh my God. I went on a date with a cancer man and I was like, this is- It's too much. Yeah. Crying in the bath is like the Pisces cancer imagery.

So yeah, I am very emotional or I'm very sensitive. The thing that makes me want to cry is that I hate needing things or like being weak at the beginning. Like I hate having to disclose that part of myself right now. Do you know what's so funny is that there was a point last night where I was like, the fact that I'm doing this and this is such an empowerment independent move also kind of helped me be like, you know what? Yes, I have these needs and, you know, would love someone to be able to meet them and help me.

But also like I've got this. I feel like you have this after every shot night. I just go into a well of like, ouchie. You're such a badass. And I think it's going to get progressively cooler every night as you are more and more confident in the entire process. And it's going to get scary. I feel like I'm going to be like, you're too good at this. You're too good at needles. It's weird. And so leaning into the experience as opposed to just seeing it as this thing that's painful and scary and unpredictable. I'm trying to lean into the positive things of it. I'm claiming control. I'm claiming my independence. I'm claiming my future. So yeah, I'm trying to lean into those parts. This was the advice from my transvaginal ultrasound

attendant this morning too. Oh, good. Yes. It was so nice to get deep therapy from someone who has a dildo inside of you. It's like, oh my God. She is so nice. I have sort of a backwards perspective on this. Weirdly, I've been forced to enjoy the process. I feel pretty certain my result is going to be disappointing, process, I feel pretty certain my result is going to be disappointing. But no, no, I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean, like, actually in a great way. I'm being forced to be like, look, this actually isn't going to be about the result for me most likely. But this process of doing something for myself and taking control and having new feelings around children, pregnancy, my body, control and having new feelings around children, pregnancy, my body, all of it. That is what I'm getting out of it. It's, I think, a good thing in general for me, definitely, and for people. We always talk about an armchair, like stop being so results-oriented, be process-oriented,

doing the chemistry and mixing it up and doing all that stuff. I am leaning into that process and I'm getting more excited for it every night. That's like a fun thing for me to do because who knows what it's going to end up being. But the process itself is an experience and I don't want to miss it. It is. I think it's going to be a little bit like camp. You're like, oh, I've only been here for two nights. It's been so long. And then it's over.

I think that's what's going to happen with this. Because even last night I was like, we have to do this for 10 days. And you were like, but we're on day three. And because I'm a dramatic human being, I'm like, but it's only day three. But if you see it from the glass half full, we're almost halfway. I know. And it's going to be over and then we're, and then we'll be sad. Do you think so? Do you think we'll think about this moment and think about it in a positive, nostalgic kind of way? I will especially because we've made it yeah we've made it fun we've made it really okay we've just speaking of fun tell everyone about last night i can't i almost peed my pants i thought about it when i got home and i just started

dying laughing by myself while you were crying in your bed. I was laughing in my bed. Which is the perfect meme side by side of what freezing your ex. Exactly. What's your sign? Virgo. Oh my God. I know. That makes so much sense. God, that makes so much sense. Virgos are amazing. Well, says no one. No, I've never met a Virgo that I haven't just absolutely adored and also wanted to be like. No, really, Virgos have their shit together.

And you were very Virgo during the shots. I mean, during this entire experience. I come in here and I'm like walking like a chicken with that head. Monica's like plugging in wires, doing things. I was COVID. No one's here. And I'm like, where's the sugar for this? You know, every video you're looking at me like, what do you want? Because I'm just here making TikTok dances. I'm like, you're not on the rhythm. No, it's a perfect combo. And you're making this whole podcast function and work. So you're such a Virgo and I'm so grateful to have you. I'm grateful because we wouldn't have any TikToks without you. We wouldn't have any TikToks.

Okay, so last night. Okay, so last night, any small sliver of a step that has been under my control, I've managed to fuck up. Okay, so every night, Monica has been doing my injections and she basically like has made me my little thing. And she does hers and I just watch her glossy eyed. I don't even know what happens to me. And then she goes and does mine and then she injects me. And last night I was like, okay, stop being a little mooch

or come on, get your shit together. So I tried to do more steps. Well, two nights ago I tried to do the steps and I had the air bubble and then I almost had an embolism. But, you know, still alive. Knock on wood. The air bubble's just making its way through my arteries. And then last night, the one part.

Oh, my God. The one thing of taking out the, what's that called? There's two medications. There's two shots. And the first shot is called Follistem. And it's the one that is refrigerated. So it's a little trickier. It comes in 300-unit vials.

But we only take 225 units. So there's 75 units left. We don't have Daxter to do fast math for us. So this gets a little dicey. So there's 75 units left. So what happens is you do your injection of 225, and then you keep the rest of the 75. You put it back in the fridge. Then later for your appointment in the next three days, they combine the extra and make a new

shot of it. Okay. So you pull out a new, a quote, new vial, which is what you were supposed to do. Yeah. And I'm making your shot. I put the thing in. I inject you. And what happens is when you push the needle in, the dial goes down to zero. That's how you know you've got it all. So I did it.

Look, this is you. You're incredibly afraid of needles. You're very sensitive. You're also tiny. So like it is hurting you. There's no fat to put this needle in at all. So I'm sure hurting extra. So I give you the injection and this is by the way, the easy shot. I give you the injection and I click it all the way down. I pull it out and I'm like, wait, what the fuck? injection and I click it all the way down. I pull it out and I'm like, wait, what the fuck? It says there's still 25. It's not down to zero. I was like, oh no, I didn't give her all of it. Oh my God, I have to do it again. And I looked at you and I was like, oh no. You're like, you didn't get it all.

We did have time lapse, but we got to probably start doing videos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because yeah, you were upset to say the least. It's like, oh my God, like again. Oh my God, she's going to have three shots tonight. Like, holy shit. Okay, but it's okay. It's the easy one.

It's just one. It's like tiny. It's just a little bit left. It's going to be, it's okay. It's the easy one. It's just one. It's like tiny. It's just a little bit left. It's going to be. It's fine. It's fine. So I put a new needle in. And then I stabbed it.

I'm pushing. You're pushing. Like, you jabbed it and then jabbed it again. Like, you're stabbing me. Because it wasn't moving. It wasn't changing. And I was like, what is going on? So I was like pushing it

really hard and each time it was like I was stabbing you. And you were like, ow, ow, ow. Like screaming. You were screaming. So I took it out. And then you were like, why did you do that? And I look and it's still nothing went in. And I was like, what the fuck? And then I was like,

oh my God, we have to do it again. You know what? We were like, no, we're not going to do it again. There's 25 left and tomorrow we'll do extra. We don't even know if that's allowed, but I was just like, you can't handle this. So, but then I I was like this doesn't make any sense why isn't it moving and then it still wasn't moving out of your body and I was trying to adjust it I was like oh no did you take the wrong vial one of the used vials from before which only had 75 yes I did. And so that meant that you had to do it a third time. Then I did have to do it a third time because you only had 75. I only had 75

and we needed the full. 225. And so Monica gave me three injections of the first one. So I got four injections last night. There was no more room around my belly button. One of them was a stabbing. Yes. Oh my God.

One of them might as well have been fine. I was just like, why isn't it going? And then I thought maybe it's my angle. I was so confused. It was the angle. Like maybe you need to do it. I was like, oh my God. Not only do I get four shots, but I'm gonna have to do it.

You were so amazing. I'm so grateful because you're already dealing with your stuff and getting it all right. And then you have to deal with my crybaby. No, I think it's helping me. That's my codependency. I don't have to worry about my thing because I have something else that's a bigger deal that I have to worry about. No, I don't like that. No, in this case, it's healthy.

I'll be done with mine. But this is a more intense. No, I don't like that. No, in this case, it's healthy. I'll be done with mine. But this is a more intense. Oh, no. I'm sorry. No, you don't have to apologize. I'm telling you that I think it might be helpful for me because then I might get really in my head if it was just me.

I guess it works only for shots. But if it ever doesn't work for you, or you feel like it's added pressure. I'll let you know. Okay. But I don't think that's going to happen. You did freak out also yesterday because you thought I didn't want to do shots with you anymore.

Oh my God, I did. Because you didn't respond immediately. And so then I was sitting there, I was like, oh, she doesn't want to do it with me. Oh God, I'm going to have to find someone because I can't. And then I was told this morning that I can't, hi mom, smoke weed. I'm not like a pothead, but it does help with my anxiety at night. It's been anxiety producing. And so it's been really helpful to help me sleep. And then this morning I went to my appointment and I was like, oh, it's okay. Because I told them when you go through your whole history of what medications

you take or what things you do, I'd mentioned that and they never said you're going to have to stop. Not that again, I do it every night. It is a thing to manage my anxiety. And so she was like, no, you absolutely can't. And I was like, cool. That's splendid. The one thing, not the one thing. There are many things that have been nice, but that is the one thing that's been helpful. You did get some clarification that we could have some alcohol. No, she told me limit alcohol and don't have it. But she said one glass. No, no, no. Mine didn't say a glass.

She was like Mediterranean diet, only one cup of coffee a day limit. I was like, no one told me that. Okay, this is perfect for today's episode. You're right. Because we have an incredible professor. How these professors are willing to talk to us is so wild. I mean, I have replayed yesterday where we talked to one of the most renowned professors, Yale professor, who has literally changed laws in Connecticut. And we are spilling coffee.

It took us 10 minutes to press a button. It was one button I had to press. But it's like there's a lot of buttons being pressed inside of you, you know? Yeah. That's a nice way of putting it. That's a Pisces way of putting it. It's a Pisces way of putting it. It's really sweet. And then the computer is dying in front of us. It's on 1% charge. Our chairs aren't situated well, so I'm kind of halfway leaning. I'm really appreciative that people are patient with us because it's really unprofessional. We were talking about this though when we walked out, remember? And we said,

it's so kind of nice to also just be able to be very open about feeling hormonal. And my body's doing all these amazing things and growing eggs right now at lightning speed so that I can give life when I want to. It's kind of nice because when we have our periods, we don't talk about it at work, right? You hide your tampon in your sleeve and you just keep it on the DL so that people take you seriously. I don't know. It's just so nice to be open about it, but then to also be like, and we showed up and we interviewed a Yale professor while we were really going through it. Women are amazing. Speaking of amazing women, we have Emily Oster, who is a professor at Brown.

She has a PhD from Harvard. She's an economist, which I love so much. I love the idea of bringing economics into other fields. We had an awesome person on. We are supported by who is also an economist who is using it for alleviating poverty. of bringing economics into other fields. We had an awesome person on We Are Supported By who is also an economist who is using it for alleviating poverty. It's just so cool.

And of course, as another woman who are like using these stats and math and science and applying it to actually helping people. And so she has a book called Expecting Better. And it's basically about applying economics to pregnancy and cost benefit and all these rules that we've been given and how relevant are they? A lot of this data is very outdated. Studies that have happened in the 50s that just haven't gotten updated. And so she's

gone in and done some adjusting. She's just very cool. And since we're getting nothing but contradictory info right now, we're very excited to talk to her. I'm so pumped. So here's Emily. Hi. Hi. How are you? Good. How are you? Hi. Good. I'm sorry that I'm coming to you from a dark basement. We are in a dark basement emotionally. You're in a dark emotional basement and I'm in a dark basement full of COVID tests. Oh, wow. Yeah. This is where we store our rapid tests. Oh my God. Is that a Peloton on the left?

No, no. It's a treadmill. We do not have a Peloton. Okay. My father just got a Peloton. Oh. Oh. Because he's hoping it will help him get his heart rate up. Sex and the City. Yeah. Too high. I don't think he's watched that. He's not caught up on the new season. I would like to meet an old boomer, a man who has been watching Sex and the City and

was waiting for the reboot. Yes. I want to interview him. Tell us everything. Thank you so much for joining us. We're very obsessed with you. You come from the field of economics, but you're changing the world of health. I had a stint in behavioral economics and it was just very heavily male dominated. And it is so nice to meet a woman who is not just changing the field of economics, but changing other fields as well.

Specific to women, for women. I appreciate that. One of my favorite things that ever happened in my field of economics is in graduate school, I wrote a paper about menstrual cups. It was a paper about whether menstruation made girls go to school less in the developing world. This was a theory.

And so we did this experiment. And one of the things we did was provide menstrual cups. So we wrote a few papers, which were kind of interesting. But the best thing about them was when I would go give talks, I would bring a menstrual cup and I would pass it around. Oh, my God. Nice. And unused. A new menstrual cup and I would pass it around. Oh my God. Nice. And unused, a new menstrual cup. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Take it out. It's like my menstrual cup, right? It's almost entirely men. It would be like on the desk and they would just sort of like push it with their pencil, you know? I think we all fall into this trap. Even on this, when you started talking about menstrual cups 30 seconds ago, I was thinking in my head, I was like, oh, I should mention that I'm so afraid right now to put anything up my vagina. You know, I'm on my period because of this thing. So I'm only using period underwear. And I don't usually do that. So it feels weird and is new. And then in my head, I was like, okay, you should bring up the period underwear. No, don't. Because what if some men are listening? They'll turn it off. Do straight men even like women? Don't you love vaginas? Don't

you love the female body? In a way, masculinity is all about supposedly venerating women and putting them on this pedestal. But then as soon as we're like, this is what we actually are, it's like, no, no, no. It's only a very sort of sanitized and I think male fantasy version of what the female body is. And the female body is so much more than that. So much more. It's true. I mean, this is why they in like the 1950s men would be out in the lobby while you're giving birth and then they only get invited in when everyone's all cleaned up. Yeah. Looks pretty. Has her makeup on. Is under a blanket. Already wearing the ice diaper. And that was not the 1800s. You're saying this was 60, 70 years ago. The Mad Men era. Oh my gosh. So Wabi Wabi, he probably already told you,

but he told me he was like, oh, I'm so excited you're interviewing Emily. We read her books and we love her parenting advice. And also Callie as well, my BFF and on episode one. So you're loved by many in this world. And I think you're helping break some of these molds that have been set from the 50s and before. We have already gotten so much contradictory info. We're scared. Yeah. On the daily.

What are you scared about? Doing it wrong. That's going to be our fault, right? That it's because I had too much ice cream. Processed food is, or pot helps me with my anxiety. And when she heard that I was using it at night after the shots to make sure that I'm sleeping, she was like, you have to stop doing that. And we were just talking about how amazing it is that you talk about cost-benefit analysis. One of the major things that you're

advocating for is sort of changing the way that we see pregnancy and drinking. And you're saying, you know, one drink a day if you're pregnant is not going to lead to these horrible consequences. And you talk about having a relaxing pregnancy, which feels like an oxymoron, but probably the cost benefit of being relaxed and having that one cocktail maybe is even greater or will lead to other spillover effects that you wouldn't get if you're like, I've got to be sober and I can't do this and I can't do that. The rules are super intense. I know you talked about that with pregnancy. Yeah, the rules are super intense. But I think the other thing you're getting at is this idea of the inability to do it all, the literally impossibility of achieving all of the different

things, which comes up again and again in parenting as well. But even early on when you're, say, trying to conceive, it's going to be easier to conceive if you're relaxed. So definitely be relaxed. But also make sure you have sex at this exact time and pee on these sticks. And so make sure you're hitting the day of ovulation or the day before. But relax. Don't like don't make a big thing about it, but relax. But also it's very important to do it exactly this day.

Don't have a glass of wine. Don't have a cup of coffee. But also don't be anxious. It's really important to sleep, but also don't have pot because that would help you sleep. So also, but just sleep. The reason I was having the pot is because that helps me sleep. And so I actually can't do both of those things. And then we're often left in a place where without data, without evidence, we don't know how to trade those things off. Is it worse to not sleep or is it worse to have the pot? And you can't have both. And that's where

I think we need to bring evidence and data and our thinking to bear on the choices we make. And that's kind of what I try to do. Yes. And then I was having anxiety about the anxiety, right? I was lying about it. I was like, okay, well now I'm not going to sleep well. It doesn't take into effect how stress can be overall a determinant of so many ways that, again, fertility, pregnancy, parenting, all of those things will unfold. Yeah. I think stress is itself problematic. It's also something that's often very hard for us to control. So I think the cycle of I'm stressed out and now I'm stressed out that I'm stressed out is something I think a lot of people really struggle with.

The other day I was writing something for my newsletter about antidepressants, which people often take to alleviate anxiety or to alleviate depression. And you're told we'll only take them if you need to sometimes. Of course I do need to because that's why I'm... Yeah.

But then people worry, well, is it worse to be depressed and anxious or is it worse to take this? Those choices feel like a very hard balance. Yeah. That was the very first thing. I mean, my poor nurse has already received six emails. Am I allowed to take a walk around the block? Am I allowed to keep taking my antidepressant? That was the first one. I don't think the answer no would be allowed. I need to take it. She was like, yes, you can. So that was helpful. At least it wasn't one that I had to struggle with. But if I did, I think I would be like, I'm taking it. I've talked about this so much. So I'm a little self-conscious about

reiterating it over and over again. But me going into this, when I had my consultation, my doctor was like, okay, what medications are you on? And I was like, this, this birth control. She was like, oh, you're on birth control. How long have you medications are you on? And I was like, this, this, birth control. She was like, oh, you're on birth control? How long have you been on birth control? And I was like, long time. I got on when I was 18 or 19, I think, but for my skin. I have really bad cystic acne, and it was horrible. And I've tried everything, and that is the only thing that's worked.

So I've been on for a long time because of that. And then she was like, okay, well, you'll be better off if you get off of it. And I was like, do I have to? And she said, no, you don't have to, but it will probably have an effect. And so I was left with this decision. Okay, what do I do? I've gotten on and off of it before. So I feel like I know my body. I know that that is what is going to happen. And am I okay with that happening? It is, again, this cost benefit. What is worth what to me in this moment in time? And I decided to stay on it. And now I regret it. So, you know, sometimes you learn the hard way or you learn lessons like if and probably when I have to do this again, I will get off of it

knowing the cost benefit has changed. And I think we put a lot of these decisions on women in a way that is both well-meaning, but sometimes not helpful. The interaction you had is sort of exactly what we would want in the model of shared decision-making. She didn't say you have to, she said, you know, it's up to you, it's your choice, but that can have its own challenges. If we don't have a way to work through it, because it can sound like, well, do whatever you want. I think often people feel like, well, I don't really have the expertise or the information to do this. I almost just want you to tell me what to do. So this is a conversation I have a lot with providers. People kind of just want me to tell them what to do some of the time. And the struggle for figuring out when am I almost forcing people into being the

decision maker and when am I going to be willing to tell them, well, this is what I would do. That's a hard conversation from both sides. Yeah. It's one of those weird things, especially in this case, when it's an insurance package we're buying. It's not IVF in the way that we're looking for a result right now. So the future seemed far away originally. And now it's like, oh no, the future's now. All of a sudden when we're doing the shots and stuff, it's like, oh no, it's too late. But there is so much that we have to balance. The first thing I asked, of course, this is outing me as a problematic drinker, I guess, but during the transvaginal ultrasound, I'm like, so we can't have coffee, right?

And he was like, no, of course you can. And I was like, oh, okay. And then I was like, but not alcohol. And he was like, no, it's fine. You know, it's not the same thing as pregnancy. There are things you can't do in pregnancy that you can totally do here. All that's fine. He was like, actually, it's kind of a good stress reliever if you're stressed. And then Liz's doctor is not saying that.

No, not saying that. She said no drinking, Mediterranean diet, no processed foods. Well, that's always a good idea, Liz. The Mediterranean diet, this is just a good opportunity to enhance your health. But now's not the time, you know? Yeah, we want pasta. We want pasta, shoving ice cream with whipped cream, eating it by the spoonful. Sorry, Kristen, you should have left whipped cream in your house. It's so nice. We can't have sex. There's so much that we can't do. And so you kind of do want to create a balance where you're able to get some pleasure and some stress relief. Again, not that you're like binging on foods, but that little treat can get you through. You know, we were talking about this earlier.

It's been for me already kind of an emotional roller coaster. And that part has been actually harder than the physical stuff. Yeah. It's so hard to make all these decisions. Are we allowed to drink? Yeah. Are we allowed? Tell us what we're allowed to do. Yeah. I'm with Monica's doctor here. If I'm voting doctors, most of these restrictions in pregnancy have to do with concerns about birth defects, about things that would affect the developing fetus that is attached to you, the mother,

the pregnant person through the placenta. When you have a glass of wine, some parts of that pass to the fetus and that's why you don't want to drink too much too fast. That's why we avoid other kinds of substances. But none of that pass to the fetus. And that's why you don't want to drink too much too fast. That's why we avoid other kinds of substances. But none of that is true when what you are doing is harvesting your eggs. Right. You had your eggs when you were born.

And they're sitting around in your ovaries waiting to be used up or whatever or not used. They can be damaged by radiation and other things like that. But it's not the case that like if you have a glass of wine, it's somehow like getting in your eggs. Getting in your eggs. Got it. Okay, great. Right. It's not seeping through. Your eggs are not drinking along with you. I mean, it sounds to me like what you are getting is a pretty sort of generic set of information about what is a healthy set of behaviors. And we sort of want you to be as healthy as possible for this. But again, it sort of misses this trade-off around, well, there's a lot of elements of health. There's mental health.

There's physical health. We're going to have wine tonight. We're having wine. Screw it. But OK, also, when I just said that, I was like, no, we're not. Like, I'm too scared. Stay tuned for more, if you dare.

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And the promo code is RACE. Race to 35 is supported by ZocDoc. So I, about five years ago, went on a date with the founder of ZocDoc. Great guy. Sorry, a shout out. And on my way to this date, we're going to see a small Broadway show that just come out called Hamilton. way to this date we're going to see a small broadway show that just come out called hamilton and i'm on my pink bright bike whizzing through you know my town i get doored by this woman coming out of an uber i go flying i had to go to the hospital oh i had to walk with a cane for two weeks if you're gonna go on a date with anyone and you're gonna get into a bike accident that's right go on a date with someone who knows a lot about hospitals. And he told me exactly where to go, exactly where to be. He offered to come, but obviously I was functionally anxiously. You were scabbed up. Okay. Well,

we love this. I love ZocDoc. We love ZocDoc. It's a free app that shows you doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance and are available when you need them. ZocDoc is such an incredible resource to help people. It just makes it more accessible for anybody to figure out where to go and how to do it. So every month, millions of people are using ZocDoc. And I like it because you can read other reviews. Go to ZocDoc.com slash race and download the ZocDoc app for free. Then start your search for a top-rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash race. ZocDoc.com slash race. This is the other thing, and I'm sure you've come up against this a fair amount, is the psychology behind once something is implanted, overcoming that.

My doctor said to my face, it is okay. And I have thought, oh, I want a glass of wine. I was like, I can't. Wait, I can though. He said I could, but I can't because I have it embedded. What is that? So I think that's just being a person. People ask me about that. Like sometimes, you know, I, as you have noted, one of the things

I say in my book is an occasional glass of wine, even when you are pregnant and not just harvesting your eggs is okay. And I'll sort of be at like a party with someone who's pregnant and they will not be drinking. And then they'll be like, oh, but it's not because I don't believe you. It's just like, this is, I'm like, look, I'm not, it's not like you don't have to drink for me. That's sort of not what this is about. And I think for some people, it's uncomfortable to make those choices because if something did go wrong, even if they knew it had nothing to do with this, you was recognizing your own psychology that, you know,

I would be unable to sort of turn off this self blame. And my guess is that's a little bit of what's going on. Let's say this doesn't work the way I want, or I don't have the success rate that I want here. Am I going to look back and say, oh, it's because I had that glass of wine, even though someone told me that it was okay. There's a sense in which I don't think it's terrible to lean into that or to recognize that as this is just how I feel about this. And even though the data says it's okay, it doesn't feel okay to me. And that's sort of part of this personal choice space is the idea that you can look at the data and you can still decide that just doesn't feel like the thing that I want to do. Yeah, that makes sense.

I just love how often you use the word relaxed and like relaxed parenting, right? Sort of putting down this pressure. and like relaxed parenting, right? Sort of putting down this pressure. I'm wondering from your perspective, is this a new phenomenon that we're putting all of these rules and all of this pressure? I have to make everything about the patriarchy, but I think it is, right? If men could do this, they wouldn't give us this many vials and this much trust. Like they trust us way too much. Women are great. We're amazing, but we're not that amazing. This is way too many. Liz is in over her head a little bit. She's not, but she feels it.

I made two big mistakes. I mean, whatever. We don't have to go back. But I've made some mistakes and it's been, again, anxiety producing. But I do think that there's this collective ownership, right, that we think that we have over women's bodies. That's why we have so many laws and governing bodies who want to make all kinds of different rules about it, whether it's helpful to women's bodies or not. I'm curious if we didn't live in such a patriarchal society, do you think that there would be as many rules about what women can do with their bodies? So I actually think it's two things. So I do think

that there's a sort of sense in which aspects of our society make people feel comfortable judging the choices of women probably differently than they would have that men. I think if men were pregnant, people would not at the coffee shop be like, I hope that's decaf because that's a really disrespectful thing to say to people. And it's really none of your business what's in my coffee cup. Thank you. There's another piece of it, which is a sort of self-imposed piece, which I think is less about the patriarchy and more about the demographics of when we are having children. As the sort of age of having kids has gotten older and as people have done therefore more before they had kids, there's often a feeling of I'm

going to achieve this in the same way I achieved my job, my college going, whatever it was. And that makes parenting and pregnancy and all these other things sort of something that I'm going to win. I want to do it the best so I can win it. I think that contributes to some of these stresses and anxieties and your feeling of, well, I made this mistake. You shouldn't have trusted me. I was like, I'm trying to win and now I'm behind and I have to catch up. And I think that's a big piece of it. It does not end as you move into parenting, where we're also trying to win parenting. Yeah. Do you think that if we were doing this when we were 21, we wouldn't be as stressed? I mean, I remember my senior year in college, it was like every morning we would like watch Seventh Heaven and like have a giant coffee.

Also inherently, and this is, I'm painting with a very broad brush here but the older you are getting pregnant most likely means you have put a career or something ahead and you are an extreme overachiever so that is implanted i mean that's happening with us for sure when i am mixing the vials and stuff i am a scientist and i am gonna do do it exactly right. And one of the mistakes that happened was this air bubble and ended up being fine. But there was an air bubble and the exact same feeling was receiving the test back and it being a D. It was muscle memory of the test landing on my desk and it being a D. And I was like, I said this in our first episode. This whole experience reminds me of the SATs.

That's horrible. But you're going to get a score. They're going to tell you how you're performing on this. Exactly. And then you're going to feel like you could have done better. You know, one of you might do better on this. And then it's going to be like getting your SAT scores out of your mailbox and be like, oh, what'd you get?

Exactly. And then be like, well, I guess I got to take it again. And this time I got to do a prep course. And this time, you know, it's that feeling. What's sort of interesting about the way you say that is that your reaction in the SAT case is like, okay, on the one hand, I'm disappointed with my score. On the other hand, here are all the things that are in my control that I can do to make it better next time. I can take a prep course. I can put vocabulary words under my plates. That's what my mom did. And when you are in this space of pregnancy or parenting or egg harvesting, there is much more that you cannot control.

There are many more things where actually taking a prep course, that's not going to help. And if you have sex more times, that's not necessarily going to help you get pregnant faster. And I think that loss of control is very challenging if we are approaching it from a space of, you know, I've achieved all these other things. This is something I'm going to achieve. And if I just work hard enough, I'm going to be able to achieve it. And it's just much more of it is out of your control than, say, the vocabulary section of the SATs. Yeah, it's true. It's hard for my brain to process that. I'm such a control freak. But it's good practice because someday you will have a kid and your kid will have their own ideas about the things that they

want to do. And you will realize that you have no control. Never had any. You just have moments in life that highlight it and reiterate it. And this is one of them. What are some of the things you discovered through econ, through these stats that a lot of women have asked about, I guess they can be pregnancy related to many of the pregnancy questions I get all the time are things like sushi, hot dogs, a lot of food and other kinds of restrictions. And those are okay. It is fine to eat some sushi from a reputable sushi location. It is okay to eat hot dogs. Most of these kinds of food restrictions, not completely all of them, but most of these food restrictions are overblown. And in particular, the way they are presented, where you get a list

of all of the things that you shouldn't do, you know, don't have coffee, don't have sushi, don't have hot dogs, don't smoke. Actually, some of those are quite important, like not smoking. And many of them are not important. A lot of the frame in the book is to say, you know, look, here's your long list of things. Actually, here are the two you should kind of focus on. Another thing that comes up a lot is the idea of bed rest. So this is actually very commonly prescribed to people who are at various risk of preterm birth, or, you know, we think you might have other complications. It turns out bed rest is just a giant waste of time. It doesn't work for anything and people should basically never be put on it. And that's an interesting one because I think that it has this kind of, that makes sense logic. And

it is only after seeing the data that we realized, well, it seems like it would make sense that lying down would cause the baby to not come out early. Actually, that's not how it works. It's not that you're standing up and it just falls out. There's other things going on. And actually being on bed rest has all kinds of other negative consequences. So again, sort of getting into this idea that there are trade-offs that you actually want to think about both sides of the coin when you're doing this. I guess the other thing I will cite that is probably the most popular question after sushi is, can I sleep on my stomach or can I sleep on my back? Can I sleep in any way that I want? Because people are told you can only sleep on your left side. And it turns out that's

just not supported by the best data. It's actually fine to sleep in whatever position you can find comfortable. And this seems when you say it as a non-pregnant person, like who cares, but it's actually extremely, extremely difficult to sleep when you're very pregnant. And the idea that you could therefore like only do it on one side, people just find appalling. And antidepressants, because you mentioned that I didn't realize that they told you not to be on antidepressants. No, no, no. They said I was fine. But I asked because I was like, who knows? And in pregnancy, that's a question. I was told you're not supposed to. Because that's been one of the scary things to me too, is you have to get off. And to me, that seems like a big deal. So this is a, in some ways, quite a complicated one. And again,

something where there's a very clear need to weigh costs and benefits. There are some small risks. Probably the most compelling ones are actually risks to the mother in childbirth. They're not enormous, but there's somewhat elevated risk of postpartum hemorrhage, which isn't common, but happens. A few things like that where you might have thought there were reasons to avoid them. Like we wouldn't just have everybody take an antidepressant if they didn't need it. But on the flip side, there are many reasons that people need antidepressants. And if you're on an antidepressant, then it is very challenging to think about getting

off it. And so it is a decision that pregnant women and their providers sort of need to make together thinking about all of these different features. And my guess is for most people, it probably favors staying on the antidepressant. But the way this is framed often is, well, you should stay on it if you really feel like you need it. Right. I understand what they're trying to get at, which is, well, you should stay on it if you really feel like you need it. Right. I understand what they're trying to get at, which is, well, you should weigh costs and benefits.

But saying it in that way puts it in such conflict. Well, it's bad for your baby, but if you selfishly feel like you need it, I guess you can do it. As opposed to saying, you know, there's two people here. There's many different things we want to weigh. Let's try to think about the costs and the benefits of this. Almost can have exactly the same conversation with a less judgmental, less conflicting frame. Also not to mention, it's actually not adhering to science. That's why people actually get off antidepressants

because they think they're better. They think they don't need it, but actually it's because the antidepressant is working. Them saying that is kind of dangerous because like, actually I have been feeling good. I probably could get off. And it's like, no, nope. It's particularly fraught because pregnancy and postpartum, but pregnancy as well, is a time in which many people become depressed or depression can get worse. Among the most significant risk factors for prenatal or postnatal depression is having been depressed before, as you might imagine. So it's a particularly weird time to think about removing your antidepressant.

The bedrest thing is really interesting. Do people yell at you? They must. People yell at me all the time. Yes, I frequently yell that, although actually not about bedrest. So bedrest is something where all of the sort of official guidelines say that this doesn't make any sense. That's widely accepted medically. People continue to prescribe it because preterm birth is something

we don't understand very well. We don't have a great way to prevent and people want to be doing something. And you want to be like, well, what can I do? Kind of nothing. But people want something to do. So telling, well, you know, rest a little bit. That feels like it could work even though it doesn't. Where that becomes problematic, I think, is when people then start to blame themselves when things don't go right. So miscarriage, for example, is extremely common. So depending on when you date it from, you know, something like a quarter to a half of all conceived pregnancies ended miscarriage. Now, most of those would not be detected, but there's a lot of miscarriage and almost all,

vast, vast majority, like more than 90% of miscarriages in the first trimester are just because of chromosomal abnormalities. Nothing to do with anything that you did. It's just unfortunate, bad luck. And that's just the way that this works. Doesn't mean it's not sad. It just, it isn't your fault. And I think because people crave this control or we have these restrictions, there is a lot of, you know, well, was it that one time that before I knew I was pregnant, I had that tuna roll? Like, is that what did it? I see some of the value of kind of getting into the data in the books as sort of showing people, no, it's not the tuna roll. None of these things are problematic. It's not something to blame yourself for.

I also think we have a obsession with sacrifice. Maybe it's based in our old religious roots or something, but you feel like you have to sacrifice something in order to achieve something. I think that's deeply programmed in us. So it's like, well, I have to sacrifice the sushi and the deli meat and the this and this because that's the only way I'll achieve this goal. I also think it becomes almost performative as a way to show like you're good. You're gonna be the best pregnant person. You can do all the things, you know, and it comes up in parenting too. Like I'm going to do these things to sacrifice, even if they don't really matter for my baby, because that's how I show that I'm winning at this, that I'm a good person,

a good parent. And I feel like that's what makes me not want to be a mom or like makes me scared about being a mom. Like I think about my parents didn't do anything insane with me, but I do feel like they were just a little looser, you know? And then I look at my friends who are my age who are having babies right now. They have apps to monitor every time the baby burps. And they're like, of course we have to put it in when they go to sleep, when they wake up. We have to track it. And I'm like, there's no way my parents did this. You're going to do that and it's totally fine. You think? Yes. Because the thing that that gives

you is an illusion of control. And when you have a baby, everything is insane. I remember getting home with my baby, with my first kid and just like putting her down in the living room and being like, I don't know, I guess it's going to wake up. Like, what do you do with this thing? Like, I couldn't believe they let me leave with the baby. Like, you're just like, let me go. You put it, you check the car seat. You're like, see, it's like, are you kidding? But in that moment, being able to write down, you know, how many minutes the baby nursed on each side, that was really helpful. Even though when I look back and I'm like, there was no point in doing that. You know, my husband had this spreadsheet, like every time she peed, he would like write it down in the spreadsheet. You know, at some point we like

showed this spreadsheet to our doctor and she was like, yeah, stop doing that. It was like, you told us to pay attention to how much she's peeing. And the doctor was like, yeah, just that she's doing it ever. Oh, that's so great. Okay. So this show is called race to 35. So can we talk about that number? Yeah. So after you turn 35, your eggs just shrivel up into like dust. It's the minute after I heard. It's the minute after. Right. So you better get on this because it's coming for you. No. So the idea that fertility begins to decline more quickly after 35 is based on data collected from, you know, like ancestral peoples who were not using birth control from like the 1860s, more distant than that. The data is quite old. It doesn't seem to be real well

supported by more modern data. So on the one hand, it is certainly true that your fertility declines over time. That starts at 16 and sort of continues until menopause. But actually, the slope of that decline does not seem to crater after 35, the way that would be suggested by this historical data. It's not that surprising that would be true because biological processes do not work like that. There is basically no cutoff biological process like that that says when you turn this age, some magical thing happens. So you're more fertile on average at 30 than you are at 40. There's no cutoff. That makes me feel so much better. When I went into that consultation, I have zero memory of that meeting. Me neither.

It was so intense. Every word was scary, bad news, 35, these eggs will die, and then they die again in the freezer, Then they die again. And then they die. And then you have one left. And it's like, oh, my God, what? All of it is awful. But that number is this one that women have to keep in their head. It's coming up. I don't have a partner yet. So it is a relief to be like, yeah, the next day after your birthday is not like death day. Yeah. And one thing that helped me in my blackout meeting, I do remember one fact because there's one positive thing she said, was you had your most amount of eggs when you were still in your mother's womb. That info for me took away the

association with youth. Again, like this idea that you're expired when you're 35 or again, that 35 versus 20. It's like, no, it's 35 versus you were a toddler. That's when you were the most fertile. That made me feel like it wasn't associated with anything remotely related to attractiveness or to value if it was when I was an infant. I think that's interesting. I mean, I think we do sort of attach this idea

of youth and fertility as some kind of, I waited too long and now I'm like an old hag. Perhaps it is compelling. I mean, I often find the idea of framing the sort of good news, bad news of like, well, there's no cutoff at 35, but also starting at 16, that was like the peak. You're on a slow decline. And I don't know, that kind of makes me feel better. It's like, oh, well, at least it's a slow decline. Yes. Well, right. And also, do I wish I had been pregnant at 16? No. No, exactly. There are a lot of other considerations.

I just wish they didn't give it these names. If you give birth after 35, like your advanced maternal age. Geriatric pregnancy. Yeah. Elderly preemie grovel. Wait, can you say that? It has grovel in it?

At some point you get to be elderly. Yeah, like tomorrow. Yeah. We are elderly. You may already have arrived. There needs to be a rebrand on that. Can I also talk about the fact that men also have a biological clock and we don't call their sperm geriatric after 35. We didn't say George Clooney had a, you know, elderly, I don't know what you would call his part. Ejaculation. No one says George Clooney had an elderly ejaculation, but he had babies later and the quality of the sperm goes down.

There's all kinds of other similar things that happen to men's bodies. And yet only women have this number and this expired date. Partly it's because I think we can sort of pull up examples of men who have kids when they're very old. It is physically possible to a much older age. There is some expiration date. It's just, it's not 35. Yeah. I think what people would kids when they're very old. It is physically possible to a much older age. There is some expiration date. It's just, it's not 35. Yeah, I think what people would say when they hear the George Clooney story is like, well, Amal is young.

So that's why that worked. I thought about this a lot when I was like having met my person. I think she was like 36 when she met him. Oh my God, she was elderly. She was, Amal Clooney. I mean, when you look at Amal Clooney, do you think the words elderly?

Amal Clooney has helped me a lot. I'll put her on my vision board. She's, Amal Clooney. I mean, when you look at Amal Clooney, do you think the words elderly? Amal Clooney has helped me a lot. I'll put her on my vision board. She's on my vision board. Also, you have an awesome podcast. I was listening to it this morning. And a big sub stack. My gosh, 100,000. Also, this is how my hormones are affecting me.

I was like, oh, I got to do research on Emily. This was last night. I was on your website and you did a book review on a book about men and women's brains and are they really different? And I was like, that has nothing to do with what we're doing, but of course I'm going to read it. I was so off task looking at all your stuff. You have so much. It's all sort of about pregnancy parenting, but sometimes it's about other things that I'm thinking about. And so I started this up back like two and a half years ago. I didn't really realize what it would become, but it's been really interesting. That's amazing. Yeah. I saw in one of your

interviews, you're thinking about doing like a thing about parenting and screens and should parents be reading their kids' text messages? And I was like, oh, that's interesting because that's another reason sometimes I feel doom and gloom about parenting in general because I'm looking at these kids and the screens and I'm like, I can't even really manage my own screen time. So how could I possibly be responsible with a child's screen time? Should we be doing screen time? Is that okay for our egg freezing? Is it going to? No, actually, if your eggs watch too many violent shows, that's- It's really bad.

That's the bad. They get bad. I knew it. I hope you're watching a lot of educational TV. You're not like watching The Real Housewives or something, right? Oh my God. I was editing Armchair the other day and I had my computer on my lap and I was like, I like threw it away. I was like, oh my God, I just killed some eggs. I don't even have very many. I already limited my eggs and I just killed them with this computer on my lap. That's not a thing. No. You know, that is true for men.

Speaking of sperm, you know, if your testicles get very hot, that's not good for your sperm. Through screens or in general, like if it gets too hot? Just in general, any way that it gets hot. Laptops, hot tubs, bike shorts. Does it constrict or get stretchy or something? They're developing the sperm all the time in there. And if it's very hot, it doesn't make the nice sperms. We got to let them breathe. No one goes up to men in bike shorts and says, I hope you're airing out your testicles. You shouldn't be wearing those shorts because your testicles are getting too hot. You guys should do that. Real quick. Are there any other, because cost benefit is such a economic term. Are there others that you've applied that you feel

like you just laid on top of this world? In general, most of the concepts from economics are very relevant for your life. I'll give you one, which is the idea of optimizing on the margin. When we talk about firms investing in different units of production, different kinds of employees or different kinds of machines, they want to think about what would be the most productive use of their next dollar. When you think about how many of each thing to do, you want to think what we call on the margin about how much the next dollar would get you in terms of profits. So that's a very important concept in economics.

When I think about my life, there's a parallel to sort of how you think about your time. I talk about this a lot with people who are trying to think about returning to work or not, because when you think about returning to work, sometimes this sort of thing comes up for women in particular, where it's like, well, how could I think about spending eight hours a day at my job when I love my kids so much more than I love my job? And like my sort of total happiness, my total utility associated with my kids is infinity. And my total utility associated with my job is not infinity, even if I like my job. But that's not the right way to look at it. You want to think about the marginal value of each hour. And so when I think about my time with my kids, the first hour of the day with my kids is amazing. Like if I didn't have that hour, I would be so sad. The

second hour is pretty good. Like by the fourth hour, I'm like moving into the negative future. I mean, I love my kids. They're wonderful, but this is honesty. I don't need all these hours every day. Eventually there's a diminishing, whereas my job is much flatter, right? The first hour is kind of about as good as the eighth hour. And so when I think about the shapes of those things, if I want to optimize on the margin, I may actually be much better off spending eight hours a day at my job and three hours a day with my kids because that last hour is kind of better allocated to my job. It's kind of honest, but it's also a sort of helpful way to take this toolbox into understanding why you can both say, my children are the most important thing to me and they are the thing that make me happiest in the world. And also, I'm really glad that it's Monday morning

because I got to get out of this house. I have so many mom friends and they're constantly dealing with this guilt. And that's such a beautiful way of looking at it. Not this huge, big picture. And that's such a beautiful way of looking at it. Not this huge, big picture. Take it hour by hour. Take it hour by hour. So my mom is also an economist. Both my parents are economists. And my mom was really, really gifted at the idea of sort of taking principles from economics

and putting them into our everyday life. And so there's this idea we talk about a lot called opportunity cost, which is when you think about, you know, should I do this activity or should I buy this thing? You want to think about what else would you do with the money or with that time? And it's not just how much the toothbrush costs, but what else would you do with those four dollars or not necessarily how much the vacation costs, but like what's the opportunity cost of that money? And the same is true of your time. So when I was a kid, my parents figured out how to get our groceries delivered. And like this was like, you know, 1985. And so it was not common, right?

So they organized with the local market. The local market got a fax machine so my parents could fax their grocery list and they would deliver the food in these containers, these crates. This is incredible. And I thought this was ridiculous because I wanted to go to the grocery store because regular people went to the grocery store. And I was like, why don't we get to go to the grocery store? I hear stop and shop is this paradise. You know, I'm like, I've never been to the grocery store. I had this image

like stop and shop was just, I don't know, like Disneyland for people. And so I'm asking my mom, like, why don't we go to the grocery store, like regular people? And she just said, well, you know, I have a high opportunity cost of time. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. You have a high opportunity cost of time. And I use that a lot with my kids. This was so awesome. This was so fun and so helpful. Do you want to tell everyone where people can find you? Yeah.

So you can find me at my sub stack, which is called Parent Data. And you can find me on Instagram where I am profemilyoster. Those are my two main places you can find me. We really appreciate you. This was helpful. I feel a little more calm. Me too. Than I did when we first started talking to you.

Yeah. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. Stay tuned for more If You Dare. We are brought to you by Framebridge. I love Framebridge. I love Framebridge.

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That's great. Because she said we could drink a little bit. Let's get a drink after this. Let's get a drink. But this episode is not over. We have another amazing guest. Such a good episode. So fun. Our old friend of the pod, January Jones, has agreed to come on.

And I appreciate her so much because it's not that easy to talk about this stuff, and especially when you're in the public eye. And I don't even know if people know that she's frozen her eggs, but she has. And she sent me a text saying, hey, I saw you're doing this, you know, gave me some advice. She's so nice, so sweet. So she agreed to come on. So let's jump into January. Let's do it.

January Jones, thank you for coming. You're welcome. I'm happy to be here. I'm so happy to have you. We've kept in touch since you came on Armchair, and it's been so fun. I enjoy you so much. Thank you. I love you guys.

I missed it. I know. You feel at home here in the attic? I do. It's a very homey environment. Well, yeah, the cords hanging from the ceiling. We do our best. Okay. So when I, I don't remember when, maybe it was even when I posted the picture of me eating a sandwich with eggs on it.

And I was like, I'm doing this. I don't remember when it was, but you reached out. When I texted you? Yeah. I think it was before you started and you said maybe you were nervous or something. And I reached out and just said it's all good. Yeah. It's fine. You were like, I did it. And I was like, oh my gosh. It's just getting past the initial first time. So we started and your text was so helpful. We were so anxious that day. I mean, manic. Really? Oh my God. Not. Like, I'm afraid to listen back. I know it was really intense and extreme. And I think maybe we were working each other up a little bit. Yeah. But

at least you had each other. I didn't have anyone and I didn't know anyone who had done it. Yeah. And my doctors were not helpful. Those doctors give you so much information. So much. They're like, watch this YouTube. Yes. And here's a bunch of vials like i'm a freaking chemist yes and i know what to do and you just feel really vulnerable and lost before you start it's complicated it is and you feel like you're doing this really strong good thing for yourself but then you also feel like i'm incapable when you have all these things out in front of you yeah it's a lot i, you go in thinking that you are, like you said, doing it for yourself.

And I mean, when I did it, it was years ago now, but I felt like it's a privileged decision to make because it's not cheap to do, right? I mean, I don't know if some insurances cover it now, but it's a big decision. It's an expensive decision. When you have all these initial meetings with the doctors, I was asking all these questions and she said, well, there's a 15% chance that the eggs, once

they're out, will survive the thaw. And I was like, 50? She was like, 15. And I was like, why am I paying for this if it's not even going to work? But I still went through with it. And the first day is the worst. It's just very unnatural to stab yourself. It is. On the first day is the worst it's just very unnatural to stab yourself it is on the first day we had our friend who has done this before thank god but then last night we were on our own and it felt like oh my god oh my god and then there was this air bubble situation you know we just freaked out air bubbles in the syringe or something yeah right that's a no-no right you're not supposed to inject air and i was told you can die. That's what I was told. And so I went to bed the second I'd been like, all right, well, if it's all over, I did what I did. I did my best. I mean, I was a little high too to calm my anxiety from the fact that I'd like Googled everything and

I was told I was going to get an embolism. No, air bubbles are fine. If you have an air bubble, you'll be okay. You won't die. You won't die. I don't know if anyone's passed from doing this. That would be a way to go, though. That's also helpful information. What's the percentage of people who've died? My guess is zero. I don't think anyone has.

Yeah. Getting high is probably a good idea. Just depends how you take. Apparently it's not. It's bad for the eggs. That's what they told me the next day. Everything's bad for the eggs. But think about most women who get pregnant naturally.

They're probably drunk. We just had this woman on, Emily Oster, who basically debunked a bunch of stuff for us, which was very helpful. She has this awesome book and also on pregnancy, too, which is great. But it was helpful because it's like, yeah, there's all these rules and we're doing it through two different clinics. So I'm getting some information. Liz is getting opposite information. And we're like, what do we do? Did you drink during?

During the process? Yeah. No. Okay. Yeah. When I was pregnant with my son, my doctor was like, do whatever makes you feel good and calm. If you want to have a glass of wine, have a glass of wine. Yeah. And so I sort of felt like this process should be similar. I didn't drink, but oh, maybe I did. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, we haven't so far. I want to tonight. I'm already like, I want to and I want someone to give me permission. Also, my doctor said it was fine. But then Liz's doctor was like, don't do anything bad. Right. Yes.

We got different dietary instructions. I didn't get it. I didn't get any diet. Yeah. Like, yeah, don't eat carbs. And I was like, don't eat carbs. Like, what are you saying? You're trying to grow a healthy egg.

Eat carbs. Right. And then you were told eat a lot of salty foods. Yes. I was told eat a lot of salty foods. It, I was told eat a lot of salty foods. It makes it grow. No, it makes the bloating less. Because what's happening during the excessive bloating is your eggs are trying to like hoard all the water.

And so the salty foods actually pull some of the water back into your GI. That makes zero scientific sense. I heard it from a real doctor. The salty foods bloat you. I think normally, but if your body's hoarding water, it's dehydrating you, quote unquote, but not in a bad way because you have too much. You have an excess of water. And so the dehydration method, it makes sense in my brain.

So I'm going to keep eating McDonald's french fries. Go for it. Have some Chinese. Exactly. Yes. Only McDonald's french fries. Okay. Can you tell us

about what made you want to do it? I already had my son and I just wanted to alleviate any pressure on myself because as women, we have these stories in our mind of our quote unquote plan for life and marriage and family and kids, whatever that looks like. And I had an idea and nothing ever goes to plan. So I just thought to get rid of that weight, I wanted to do it. And I was in a financial position to do it and I wasn't working. So it just felt like a good time. And it did alleviate a ton of stress and just there's money in the bank, basically. Exactly. Even though money was taken out of my bank. Yeah.

But yeah, and they're still there. I still keep them. And I still don't know if I'll ever use them. Unfortunately, on my maybe third or fourth day, my son walked in when I was doing the shots. And I was like, what are you doing? And he was worried and I didn't want him to think I was sick. So I sort of tried to explain it to a small kid. It's confusing.

It's confusing. It's confusing for us. And he's like, oh. And then afterwards, when I was in bed recouping, it wasn't that bad, but I was resting and he asked, how many eggs did I get? And I told him and he goes, so I'm going to have that many brothers and sisters? He was so psyched. And I was like, no, not necessarily. I don't know. Then I was screwed. What I really admire about your story is you had a kid. I do think a lot of people go into this like us and we're like, we don't have anything. And I think some people who have kids are like, well, I guess my time is up.

Or yeah, I'm single and I have this kid, so I should just be happy with it. Like, I like that you didn't do that. That you were like, I have a kid, so I should just be happy with it. Like, I like that you didn't do that, that you were like, I have a beautiful child who I love and take care of, and I still have control over my future. Yes. Well, and even now, I can't even imagine going back to having a baby and a toddler again and doing it again. Yeah. But at the same time, what if I meet someone and he hasn't had any children and he wants to? And I'm like, well, I'm old as fuck and I can't have one. That is not true.

But I could use the eggs or use a surrogate. I just like having the options. I like having backup plans. Yeah. That's a little OCD of me. We have an internal clock that's ticking that like, I mean, again, men do have one, but it's not as. Not really. It's so different. it is different. It is

different. And so how did taking off this pressure, which is the reason, you know, you say that you did it, how did it impact your life? Like, did you become more relaxed in your dating life or just in general to be able to put that in a box and say, okay, I don't have to think about this anymore? I think it alleviated the pressure to date, which maybe it shouldn't have done. I don't. I have this fear. I just don't. I don't really date. And no one wants to date me. I just I have a life. I have my child. I'm busy. That's not one of my priorities. And so it just alleviated so much pressure to date. And also, I've done it before on my own. So I don't feel like that was ever the thing. Ideally, if I was going to have another,

it would be great to have helping hands. But I know I can without it. Exactly. I have a little bit of that fear, too. Like it's already such an uphill battle dating. And now that I'm like, I am going to have some insurance. Is it the nail in the coffin of me never going on a date ever again? Because I don't quote need to. Right. My sister also did this.

She did this a couple years ago too. And of course I had already done it. So I was like, just stab it. Just do it quick. And it was very comical. It took about 45 minutes for her to do it. That's like staring at your stomach. Yes.

I've been giving Liz her shots. Yes, I can. Yeah, I go to her house every day. I mean, or she comes to me. She's an amazing friend. But yeah, I can't. I would just stare at it. And then, I don't know, like dissociate.

Well, I offered to do it for her, but she wouldn't let me. She thought I was going to hurt her. She's like, just give me some fucking space. I will do this just I need time. I was just itching to get in there. Yes. She did it during COVID and neither of us were dating anyone. And she did it for the same reasons many do. And then she met someone. So she feels even better just having no timeline. I don't have to pressure him to get married and have kids because I have this. So even if you are dating or you want to date,

I think it just makes everything easier. How'd you feel on the hormones? Do you remember? I also have horrible PMS and periods. Yes. So it didn't feel hormonal, I guess. I just felt bruised. Yeah.

Even the bloat, I'm always sort of bloated. So it wasn't that bad. But it was just towards the end of it, it was like finding an open spot. Right. To inject. And it was tender. And then when you go in to have them extracted, it was like bad period cramps. And because I had a kid, I was fine.

Yeah. You know, it wasn't like labor right you have something to compare it to because my doctor was like it's like early labor maybe after and it wasn't it wasn't that bad early labor I don't know I just remember having an amazing nap but it was the first time I'd ever had anesthesia so it was I was stressed about that more than anything yeah I have some fear around that. Everyone I've talked to who's had it is like, oh, exactly what you just said. It's the best nap. And I'm like, really? It feels so unnatural to me to close your eyes and wake up and it's four

hours later or whatever, or 30 minutes or whatever. I had a colonoscopy a couple years ago. It was similar to that. This has nothing to do with this podcast, but I had a colonoscopy when I was like 20 because I had all these stomach issues and they did not put me to sleep. Maybe it's what they do in Canada. They're just like, it's just butt stuff. Get over it. Well, you get an option of the twilight-y thing or the hard out. Oh. I chose hard out. Did you feel it? Yeah, I was like awake. I don't know. It's weird. Maybe because I was young or something. They were like, you were consciously it. You were consciously awake. I was there. Yeah. No, that's not. Okay.

Anyway. It's for another podcast. I think the extraction is a twilighty. I don't even remember what drugs it was. But the colonoscopy one was like the Michael Jackson drugs. Oh, big time. The biggies. It was great.

Got it. Okay. Get it. Right? That's what so many people have said. I hate to say it, but I kind of get what these addicts are going through. Okay. Well, it's something to look forward to.

I think your experience is so interesting because you had a baby. You're like, I can do it myself. You froze your eggs all by yourself. We're in this interesting time in history, really. I think we're going to remember this moment as a lot of women doing things on their own. There's more single women buying homes than single men buying homes, even though they have a lower income than single men. But they're getting it done, freezing their eggs. I even at one point considered, do I want to freeze the eggs

with a sperm donor and just have it ready if I want to do it? So I'm curious, all of these experiences, including egg freezing, did it make you realize more of your power and ability to have this independent life for yourself? I don't think that egg freezing did that. I think that having a baby on my own did that. And so I was already really well equipped for that physical and emotional experience. I've always been very, very independent and have no problem organizing my time, budgeting my money. I'm very just on it yeah

there are things emotionally that you wish you had a partner for or a girlfriend for going through it with you whether it's having a baby or the egg freezing just having the emotional support is important to go through it with you or just to be someone to vent to yeah i mean that's the only thing i really miss in my life, not having a partner. I mean, I don't miss having to make joint decisions with someone. Yes. But I do wish that there is someone at the end of the day to bitch to about everything and anything. I like that you touched on that because I do think the end result of a lot of people who are doing this, potentially me, I've thought so much about this.

I'm not necessarily putting these eggs aside so that I can wait for a partner. If I want a kid, I probably have to take that into my own hands. And I'm not waiting for this perfect person. Nor should you. Yeah. And so I wonder if you will touch a little bit on what it is like to go through the whole process of having a kid on your own. It was beautiful and wonderful. And I loved being pregnant. And I loved just taking care of my health and doing prenatal yoga. I mean, I was working throughout.

I was on Mad Men. So it was tricky just with work. And then after the baby, going right back to work. So that was hard. But I had amazing help and an amazing doula and my family and friends. And once that baby came, I just didn't want to be separated from him. Yeah. And I mean, I had hired a night nurse and a doula and help at work. And after the first night of breastfeeding the baby and the night nurse pulling him away so I could go back to sleep,

that killed me. I was like, just leave him with me. I changed my mind, but I wanted to have all of breastfeeding the baby and the night nurse pulling him away so I could go back to sleep, that killed me. I was like, just leave him with me. I changed my mind, but I wanted to have all those things in place because every woman has different experiences. What if I have the baby and I have no emotional attachment or I have postpartum depression? You just never know. So I felt again, like I had organized everything in case of whatever and then it was the best decision i've ever made the only hard part was all the outside questions of why a woman would want to have a baby on her own like who's the dad how did this happen it must have been an accident or you know whatever it was paparazzi when paparazzi i lived right over here and just having them around wanting to see the baby what did he look like who you know it was just all that that was hard for me of course like why would a woman do this on purpose like they would never do it on their own on purpose because

yeah that would be crazy right so I guess I was a little ahead of the game at the time yeah I have so many girlfriends who raise their children alone and And yeah, I don't know any different. But I have no complaints. Listen, I've seen many marriages be destroyed by having children. And this might sound old fashioned, but at least in the beginning, the baby needs the mom. If the dad is there, or there's a partner present, it's emotional support. Yes. It's can I help you? Like, do you want me to watch the baby while you have a shower? Yeah. Stuff like that.

It's not can I help breastfeed? Like, you know, whatever it is, or maybe some dads are super on it. My dad was. But just biologically, there are limitations that the dad can do. I loved every bit of it, all the fluids and guts. And I ate my placenta and I did all the stuff. Yeah, that was also in the news. When you Googled my name, it was January Jones eats placenta like I'm some sort of witch. Oh, my God. And I was like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. And it was when I was doing press for something right after I'd had him. That was the only question

my publicist was just like, can we ask her something else? I sort of snapped to one journalist. I became sort of Anthony Hopkins. And I was like, yeah, I was fucking fava beans. And, you know, I was like, yeah, I ate it. I mean, I'd freeze dried it into pill form and took pills. But it's like, chill out. Yeah. So it was also a time in the world when things were just, I don't know, frowned upon, I suppose. That must have been so hard to do that in the public eye. And you're right. So much scrutiny. Yeah. And that's very admirable that you popped back up and was like, OK, well, there was no choice. And my focus was on the baby and my life and work. That outside noise, it prompted me to move out of town a little bit, but it didn't deter me.

It sort of gave me, I don't know, just the secret glee inside like, yeah, motherfuckers. We can do whatever we want to do on our time with or without a partner and make the best of it and fulfill our own dreams. And also there are people who are in partnerships whose partners don't do anything. Yeah, there's this like, oh, why would she do this? Why is she on her own? And we have all these questions. And to your point, Monica, like scrutiny. But then we don't have scrutiny on there are a lot of famous people or even like high profile CEOs or whatever, right? Power couples that it's very clear that the guy probably doesn't have a lot of time to be with the kids just based on how often we see them in the public eye. And we

don't question the woman and her choices. Why would you have a baby with someone who's never at home, right? Like, why would you choose that? The way that you did it is actually probably smarter. And you had support that maybe you wouldn't have had if you did have a partner who wasn't really present like a lot of women do. I just didn't have to go to someone to make any decisions. I made all the decisions. And sometimes I wanted advice and I sought out advice, but I didn't have to say, should we circumcise the baby? Should we put him in preschool?

Just anything. Are we sleep training? Like, I just got to make every single decision on my own. A lot of my girlfriends who are pregnant and had a partner, they would start a lot of arguments and fights over just differences on how to raise a child. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I see it all the time. My parents, I think kids, me and my brother, were the best thing to ever happen to them.

But the worst thing to happen to their relationship, they are just now back being friends. And now that we're all adults and happy and healthy. Well, they're lucky they're friends. Listen, my sisters and I were never lacking in love or support or anything. But my mom said, because I asked her how they had stayed married so long because they got married when they were like 18. And she said, well, we always put each other first. We were the priority, physically, emotionally, everything. And you kids were just there. And you're just you're just extra. I'm like trying to think back where we neglected. But we weren't. We weren't. They loved us very much. But it was very clear to see that they loved each other the most. And that was an amazing example for us to see. But also for them to survive not having money or job security, you know, all this stuff that

they went through while they were married and they grew together and they grew up together. Yeah. I remember when my son was like a toddler, I was on the floor playing with him and my mom was like, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm playing with him. I don't know. She's like, oh, I just I didn't do that. Oh, you didn't play with us. That's terrible. She's like, I was just trying to keep my head above water. And I had three babies and I was making sure everyone was fed and whatever. She's like, I didn't play with you. That goes to show how society has changed and the way we now look at child rearing. I mean, I think we've maybe swung to the other side where it's like a hyper vigilance. But yeah, same. No, my parents were

not playing with me. I'm sure they read me books and stuff, maybe. And I don't feel like I am lacking because of it. Me neither. I felt loved my whole childhood. Yes. Yes. Supremely so. Yeah. I definitely raised my son differently. But like you. Supremely so. Yeah. I definitely raised my son differently. But like you said, probably swung very far. Like we're besties. And I mean, I'm trying to soak up. He's 11 now. He just turned 11.

So he's not going to want to hang out with me much longer. But he still sleeps with me occasionally. Like he'll want to cuddle up. And that's sweet. That is such a special bond. But he wants siblings more than anything on earth. Really? And I just said to him, it might not happen.

And he brought it up the other day. He's like, but you have all those eggs. Oh, wow. I was like, I just don't know if that's the best decision for me. I haven't decided yet. He's like, well, I'll take care of it. Oh. No, that's not really how it works.

But do you think it's harder to date when you have it so together? Like, do you think it is intimidating to date when you have it so together like do you think it is intimidating I don't have it so together I feel like at this point I haven't dated seriously like a long-term relationship in a really long time so I'm pretty set I just have my life and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything when I do I'll go about it the only thing is just someone for emotional support yeah I think that's so wonderful that your son gets to hear you say, I don't know if that's best for me. I don't know if that's the decision I want to make. It really is such a good model for women's rights and choices and independence.

And how amazing for him that he gets to grow up in that space. Well, he might not realize it yet. But he will later. Hopefully. I mean, everyone's disadvantages, if we want to call it that, growing up, like he doesn't have a dad or siblings. I mean, I feel like all the things that we struggle against when we're young become advantages when we're older. Yes. And that's what I try to explain to him. He's not really grasping that yet. But you learn so much more from how your parents are with each other or to themselves than what they tell you to be. Yeah.

It's all modeling. So when I say no iPad, I have to put my phone down. I know. Okay. But we also talked about this when we were talking about doing the show and we were like, who do we want to have on? And I was like, I know January did this. And Liz was like, we have to have her on. I think there can be a stigma around egg freezing that it's like you failed. You're not good enough. You weren't picked. That's my whole thing. Like you haven't been picked. You're not valuable. You're not hot

enough. Like all these things. And she was like, we have to have January because she's so obviously the opposite of all those things. I never even thought about it that way. Maybe I have inflated self-esteem. It wasn't ever that I wasn't picked. It was just options. And the other day I was on an airplane and this flight attendant who is amazing. She was so sweet to everyone who came on and she was looking at my

son and my sister was behind me and she's like, oh, that's so great. You're close with your sister. And I was like, yeah. She's like, I have so many sisters. And I asked how many? She said, I have nine. Wow. Nine sisters and one brother. And my mom raised us. I was like, your mom raised 11 kids by herself. Oh, my God. She's like, yeah. And she never complained. And she raised us all in Manhattan. We had a dad. I think he was in Brooklyn. And I was just like, I'm never going to complain again. Yeah. And my son had his headphones on. I didn't think he heard. And then when she left, he goes, she had 11 kids. It just was so amazing. It's not like raising kids or having kids on our own, freezing our eggs or however we want to do it is unique.

Yeah. It's just if you do it this way, it's your own decision. It's not I'm going to have this family and the guy takes off or dies or whatever it is. This is just my way, at least, of controlling my future. I mean, with everything going on for women right now, it's just get it done before you can. I agree. But but again it's a privileged thing to be able to do the hope is that as time goes on it will be less so that more insurances will start doing it that more companies will start doing it probably lowered if more people do it too and men can have paternal leave everything that freaking the scandinavian countries do until that point it's just what you want to prioritize.

So if you budget it in, in your future. Save up a little bit every year to do it. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us. You're welcome. It was a pleasure. I love talking about this. I don't feel like people are enough.

So yeah, when I posted that thing, I got so many messages from people who were like, I did it or I'm thinking about doing it or I'm doing it. And I was like, gosh, I know these people. And I didn't know that. And so I think maybe there's a little bit of fear around it. Well, I think women just talking about anything to do with our bodies is becoming more and more acceptable to talk about. Yes. Whether it's miscarriages or egg freezing or really anything periods but the

more we talk about it openly the more normal it would be and we have to and just supporting each other like you guys are doing or me yeah wanting to stab my sister when she was doing it find the fun in it that's great advice just laugh through the stabs yes laugh through the stabs. Yes. Laugh through the stabs. That's the quote of the lifetime. The problem is your belly shakes. You might miss your marks. Probably shouldn't ask, but I am curious how many eggs you got. I got 13, but I had to drop one. This is a baker's dozen.

That's great. I don't know if that's high or low these days, but. When I go in to check when you're annual or whatever, I still have viable eggs. Because I was thinking about a couple of years, maybe during the pandemic. I was like, maybe I should have a baby during this time. Yeah. And she's like, well, just use the ones you have in you and go get some sperm or go have one. I say whatever you want to do.

Right. She's like, just use those. And I was like, yeah, but my eggs that are frozen are younger. Isn't that better? Oh, right. And she said no. That it but my eggs that are frozen are younger. Isn't that better? Oh, right. And she said no. That it's better to use just the ones you have. Interesting.

So I was like, why did I do that? Yeah. If you want to have a baby when you're 50, but at any point they could also become unbiased. You know, it's just all these what ifs. Yeah. It's just insurance. I wanted to say this too. Like, what if I don't use my eggs?

Yeah. Where do they go? Yeah. Have you thought about that? I have recently. That makes me really sad. Is that super egotistical to like donate? I don't know.

I don't know if I'd want that. Like if someone else took one of my eggs and had that baby, I'd want to have that baby back. Like give me that baby. Of course. I get that. that part gets very complicated I feel like if I do decide like every year they send you a bill do you want to keep them frozen if I decide no I feel like I'll go into some sort of postpartum well I don't know

it's a chapter closing it's a very hard thing to think about when I am on my period I'm not thinking about my eggs at all right at all but bye, bye, baby. Yeah, exactly. If I was like mourning every month, being in this for just a few days, it has really made me think about my body. It's every time we get the vaginal ultrasound. Yeah, I'm like, Oh my god, my body's making people half a person. But still, I'm just looking at it in such a different way. And I totally get that there'd be a loss attached. Well, and also, I read this somewhere. All the eggs you have in your body are there when you're in your mom's tummy.

How crazy is that shit? Yes. Yes. Like, we're aliens. Like, my eggs were in my mom's. Yeah. We had a bajillion when you're in your mother's stomach is when you were most fertile. In the womb.

No, you can't have babies. No, but that's when you had the most amount of eggs. You had like 40,000, right? They did that with me, too. 40,000? Yeah, it's like a crazy number. Really? That seems like that needs a fact check.

But yeah, maybe Ron can fact check. It's a lot. We have to do 12 times. Let's say you have your period when you're 14. Ooh, that's a lot of math. That's not 40,000. We need Dax's math skills right now. Over 2 million.

No way. Thank you. Wait, Rob, are you serious? Where did the all go? It's something nuts. When a baby girl is born, her ovaries contain over 2 million immature eggs. Where do they go? Yeah.

Do multiple ones drop it? Heaps die off around 400 000 of the initial 2 million survive by the time she reaches puberty it's why heaps die off yep where do they go in your pee they vanish it's I know I guess it must come out in your period it's strange oh my god weird usually released during a menstruation cycle. I mean, I had really painful periods when I was a teen. I did, too. Maybe that's why all the eggs are leaving. All the eggs are leaving.

Two million eggs are exiting your body. And then you get to your 30s and you're like, I want to freeze them. And they're like, no, you get two. You get six. That's the part that is so maddening. Can they freeze eggs when you're like a kid? I know, I was going to say. But they have to mature.

That's the problem. They probably can't give a little kid that many chemicals to make them mature. Hormones. Yeah, that would mess up everything. Yeah, that'd be pretty fucked up. And girls are already getting their period so early these days. Well, people are being better fed. That's what I heard.

We have more access to better foods, actually. But not our age. I was young, people are being better fed. That's what I heard. We have more access to better foods, actually. But not our age. I was young, actually. I was 12. Do you remember commercials for breakfast foods? No, we ate terribly in the 80s and 90s. Yeah, it was gross. That's true. Cookie crisp. Yeah, it was just

cookies and milk. And then a giant glass of orange juice, a giant glass of cow's milk. But then you go back 100 years and they're eating all organic shit from the farms, right? Yeah. And they didn't get them that early. Or maybe they did. We'd have to do some more research about medieval times, Rob.

Medieval periods. I mean, probably wealthy landowners and stuff like that, maybe they got them early. But then the port, like, again, it has to do with your weight. Wow, this has turned into a beautiful history class. Nice tangent. No science behind it at all. We need to do with your weight. Wow, this has turned into a beautiful history class. Nice tangent. No science behind it at all. We need to talk to Asa. We sure do.

All right. Well, you've given us a lot of your time, and we thank you for it. You're welcome. Love you, girls. Love you. Good luck with everything. Thank you. They thought it was sorcery back then.

It's sorcery. Okay, so that was day three of Race to 35. We made it. Sort of. I mean, we're alive. 35 and still alive. That's gonna be the tattoo.

Shit, I love it. You made it through your stabbing and we'll see what tonight brings us. And we'll see you guys

next week. Bye. and we'll see you guys next week bye