Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Race to 35: Day 6 + Christina Perri

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Monica and Liz's trays finally arrive in Episode 6 (out of 10) of Race to 35. In this episode, the two women start a new shot and Monica lies to Liz about how much it hurts. Additionally, Liz is put on a blood thinner because she tested positive for a genetic blood mutation. The two talk to singer/songwriter Christina Perri about her struggle with fertility and her experience enduring multiple miscarriages. Christina learns vital information about her body and the simple solution that could have prevented her miscarriages. She bravely shares this information with Monica, Liz, and the listeners in hopes of preventing the same outcome for others. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We probably shouldn't eat our burritos. You know misophonia? No. Speaking of 23andMe, there's a genetic marker for it. I can't call it a disease, but it's like a legit phobia. When the sounds of mouth noises make you infuriated. Isn't that everybody? No.

And it's like some people have it way worse. But anyway, there's a genetic marker for it. Okay. I really need to do a genetic testing. You do. And that's relevant. We were talking about this yesterday because you have been put on yet another shot because... Shot, shot, shot, shot, shot, shot. Not the good kind. You're on a blood thinner. That's also a shot. I'm on a blood thinner. Yes. So my dad has, I say factor V, but I think it's factor V because it's the V, the like Roman five. And that is a condition where you're just prone to blood clots. He became aware of it after an incident. And so my sister got tested.

I obviously didn't because I don't like to know things. That's my coping mechanism. So my sister has the mutation. And before I started egg freezing, I had a friend who was like, you should get tested for that to make sure you don't have it. And I was like, ooh, okay. And so I have the mutation as well. But I think if you have both mutations, then it can be dangerous.

In my case, it's not dangerous, but I am vulnerable for blood clots. So I have to be put on a blood thinner starting today. So in my case, it starts a few days before your retrieval. I have to do it for 10 days. So even after my retrieval, I have to do it for kind of a week. And now I've been told I can't fly. So now I have to move to LA. It's happening.

Permanently. It's a permanent decision. Again, more information. I just went to the CVS to pick up the shots. So now I have to move to LA. It's happening. Permanently. It's a permanent decision. Again, more information. I just went to the CVS to pick up the shots. Obviously, they don't have enough of them. It's expensive. And then the pharmacist says, okay, so, and then he names 10 crazy things that could happen as a result of these shots.

Like my urine is black or something and internal bleeding. And I literally don't remember. I need to voice record when people say things because don't you feel like half of what happened you don't remember? You kind of black out. Maybe it's in our subconscious, hopefully. But yeah, it was just a lot of new information. And then so I have to do that in the morning. My Gardasil, whatever it is, you have to do at night. I have to do in the morning. It's not Gardasil. It's not Gardasil. Gardalax?

Yeah, it's a gene. So now you have morning shots too. One is a blood thinner and we did it this morning and you did not like it. It hurt me a lot. I think that was the most painful shot. I had a little ice pack and I put it on my stomach, but it felt like I'd eaten bad sushi or something. And now I feel very tired. Yeah. But, you know, Monica bought me a burrito. And so I feel like that'll help. Maybe I'm just hungry.

Yeah. So this is a big component of fertility, genetic testing. I think actually a lot of people who decide to do in vitro or embryos and stuff, it's because they have a genetic marker and they're trying to screen for it. I know some people who have done this and it can get very demoralizing because they'll make all these embryos and then they'll screen and then they'll have it. They choose to get rid of them. That's a big element of this. And it's a really hard element. It's also a miraculous element because it's something we could never have done before.

Now you can like check for these things, which is incredible. So I'm really glad you got tested, obviously. Again, Dr. Huberman talks a lot about knowing about information and knowledge being power. And I think in a world where there can feel like there's a surplus of information, especially negative information about what can go wrong and what's going wrong, going through this experience has made me realize there's a lot about myself that I don't know.

And actually, part of being an adult is handling and knowing that you can handle whatever will come your way. None of your family knew about this until the incident with your dad. Exactly. It is common in the population. And so what can happen if you also have arrhythmia, which is what happens to a lot of people actually, is that you can have a stroke because that blood clot is kind of fine if it's like roaming around. But if it gets through the little hole in your heart and then it goes to your brain, that's when you get what we call a hole in one. So if you're going on this journey, you might learn that you have this mutation and it's okay. I have it. And it just means I think I have to like make sure I stretch on planes or

something. I have been stretching on planes. I'm serious for the last 25 years because I'm afraid of blood clots. I don't ever think about it. I know. And you should be thinking about it is my point. And so there is something to knowing your body. I don't have that. I don't think, but I was on a birth control that has a little bit of an extra chance of stroke. So I was constantly aware and especially on planes, I'm always trying to like move around. I was on a birth control that has a little bit of an extra chance of stroke. So I was constantly aware and especially on planes, I'm always trying to like move around. You gotta move, like do a little stretch. Okay. I'll do more of that. I'm an aisle person because I need to know I can get up. It's not even about getting up. I just need to know that I can. Mental. You're 100%

right. In the last few weeks, I felt like my legs feel heavy. Is that bad? And so I've just got like a lymphatic. You're looking at me. Oh, I got scared. I know, but I didn't Google anything because again, I feel like every time I Google something, it's bad. Like I looked into that. And so I do this little brush thing to just move around things. Yes. Keep circulation. I don't know. But also, I mean, that is kind of the good news about we go in and we get our blood drawn. They're looking for weird stuff. Yes. There's some negative things that have come up. We have notes, as we've said. But there's some really positive things, too. At the very beginning, we were like, why do they have to check our blood every other day? And now I'm like, thank God they are. Me too. And I feel like there's

no unwanted attention or communication. And it's a a lot and I have trouble wrapping my head around how someone who has a full-time job and a lot of responsibilities or is caretaking for a parent or a disabled relative, whatever it is, right? It's a lot to manage, but it's a big deal. I keep focusing on the why. I'm like, why are we doing this? That's the greater goal. And I know I'm going to get there once it's done. And I need to keep that long-term view instead of my short-term discomfort or lethargia. Lethargia? Lethargia. Lethargia. That's wrong.

Lethargy. That's it. I'm serious. I think you're right. Lethargy. Lethargy. How do you feel? Because you had the extra shot.

You had a lot of shots last night. I had four shots last night. Well, I had three shots, but one took two pricks. They were fine. Everything was fine. The new shot I took last night, the G shot, the G spot shot that I gave you this morning, when I took it, I was anxious about you because it's a little bit of a thicker needle than the other needles that are really thin. So I was like, fuck, like if this is a little bit of a thicker needle than the other needles that are really

thin. So I was like, fuck, like if this is a little bit thicker of a needle, Liz is going to freak out tomorrow. And I didn't, obviously I didn't say, cause I don't want to implant that in your head. And then I gave it to you this morning and you were like, that was the easiest one. And I was like, oh my God, thank God. How does that make sense though? I'm happy about it. And why does the blood thinner one feel like it's murdering? Was it thinner or thicker? Because maybe thin needles are my problem. No, how could a thin needle be?

I know, it doesn't make any sense. I guess we'll look at the blood thinner one. I think the thickest one is the G spot. The one that you thought was easiest. That's wild. And you made a mistake also when I was trying to put it in and you released too early. I released too early and I get to do it again. Yes, you did. Well, I hadn't gotten in yet. No,

again, every time there's been a problem, it's been my fault. No. It's just true. It's true. Detail is not my forte. I have other strengths. Wait, we have a big, big, big, big update. Our trays came. They arrived and they're so cute. Fucking cute. They're so cute. I love them so much. I sent Callie a picture. You make this so much more fun. I really want to reiterate. Everyone needs to find a Monica. That could be your next venture. You just loan yourself out. She said, this is great. A woman with a tray really can do anything. Oh, I love that. Quotable. That could be t-shirt. Honestly.

And also maybe we should make trays and make it a business. Make them cute like ours. Yes. But then they can have separators. And it says you can do hot things. Yes. You can do hot things. Guys, would you buy that?

I would totally buy that. I mean, you need trays for a lot of big, hard stuff. You really do. A woman with a tray can do anything. There we go. Anyway, so that was a great just-in-time-those-trays game. Because we have two more days only, plus our trigger shot and retrieval, and that's it. Wow.

And your retrieval's set to be on time? So far. It's going to depend. That's the other thing. So like right now I'm set for Saturday, but you know, she said, give or take a day or two. So I think you like, what does that mean? Like they just like tell you in the morning, like today. What they told me is they'll know kind of 72 hours in advance. And then you don't do shots for two days, which is fun. Woohoo. Something to look forward to. And then you go in and they do it. Yeah. And we've been told it's super easy. It's the easiest part.

Yeah. There's an emotional part at the end when you get your number. Yes. And the hormones drop. And that can come with emotional consequences. I think I'm going to prep 48 hours of just 30 rock reruns. Something I've already watched, I already know won't be upsetting. And like plan good snacks.

Yeah. Because you can eat what you want after. Yeah, even though we're still pretty much eating what we want. We're kind of eating whatever we want. I mean, ish. We're doing pretty good. We had eggs. We had eggs for our eggs this morning.

We did. And my doctor told me the food doesn't matter at this point. And she asked me how you were doing. Oh, yeah, I know. My doctor asked a lot about you. Oh, that's so cute. That's so sweet. It is sweet. I think for them, well, I don't know, but I know for my doctor, like when I first told her, I was embarrassed to tell her. I was going to try to not tell her because I didn't want her to think I was making a mockery

of her life or something or industry. And I'm not. No, it's the opposite. It's literally the opposite. But sometimes people hear a podcast and I get worried. And I'd be like, it's from Armchair Expert. Do you know about it? And I don't want to do that because that's embarrassing. So then she was talking about timing. And I was like, I guess I just got to tell you, I'm doing a podcast and I'm following this process. I'm doing it with my friend Liz. And there was this little space. And I thought she was going to be like, okay, well, you're going to have to go somewhere else. Like I really got nervous. And she was like, I think that's such a great idea. There needs to be more out there on this. So she's very supportive of it. But you know,

what I also like is we first started that Tuesday. I went in for my appointment because I had started my period. I was supposed to start my shots the next day, Wednesday. That's normally how it goes. But based on my numbers, I think, and my blood, she wanted to start that day. And I was like, no, that's going to mess up the podcast. So I asked. I was like, is it possible for us to start the next day because of the podcast?

And she was like, I'm really sorry. I know you have a podcast. but no, everything's gone well. She respects the podcast, but she's not taking the podcast so seriously. And then all of my people were like, I got a rush delivery so that we were able to start that day. And so everyone's very committed to the podcast without letting it become the most important thing. Yes. Which I think we are also doing. I think so too. We're nearing the finish line.

We have an amazing episode today. Christina Perry, singer-songwriter, is here and she tells a pretty harrowing, intense fertility story. So also trigger warning. It's a hopeful story story but also a sad one let's jump right in hello hello what's up oh my gosh thank you so much for joining us thank you so much for wanting to do this i'm kind of starstruck right now i'm not gonna lie please please how are you guys we're good we. Please. How are you guys? We're good.

We're day eight. That means you guys are, what, taking hormones? This is before they retrieve it? Exactly. Wow. Well, where do I begin? First of all, congrats to both of you guys. This is so cool.

Thanks. What you're doing. I also absolutely love that you're doing it out loud and with all your transparency. It's just so cool. And what we all need, moving that needle and normalizing all the things. There's still so much shame around it, right? Oh, dude. It's so interesting because I just tell the truth.

I just say what I'm going through and everyone's always awarding me on my bravery. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, I'm just telling like it how it is. I understand that because this is still so new, I guess, for people to be so open. I don't know any other way to be. So sometimes that's why it feels so weird to me to be put into this category of being brave or thanked for sharing things. I'd be sharing this to anyone in my life anyway, just so happens I have kind of a big platform, but I'm sure it was an overshared in the fourth grade. Right. I'd say maybe the past

five years I've noticed it's become so much more of the out loud conversation or the everyone conversation versus the inside, just in your village, just in your team, just in your family. But as far as what I've been through, geez, I don't even know where to begin. I'm not sure how old you guys are, but I feel like we're in a similar generation. I'm about to turn 35 and Liz is 35. Oh, sweet. I'm 35.

I'll be 36 on Friday. Oh my gosh. Happy early birthday. Thank you. We're geriatric millennials. I know that word. I mean, that's what TikTok calls us. But anyway, I actually think

it's really true because I spent the weekend with the young millennials from the 90s or 94, whatever. And I'm like, yeah, it's a different thing. We are not the same. No. But anyway, I also am a geriatric pregnant person. That's a real technical term. It's not even a joke term from TikTok. I'm not ashamed. So I have a four and a half year old daughter named Carmela. She's my favorite person in the whole world. The truth is I really never got pregnant before I was pregnant with her. I don't know how. I mean, I took birth control from like 16 to maybe 27 or 28. And when I met my now husband, he jokes around and says I brought up having kids like on our first date. But I don't think I did. But I was ready to have kids before I was ready to get married.

I had baby fever starting at 27. I went to my OBGYN and she gave me like an ultrasound because it was like an annual checkup. And she was like, oh, your ovaries look perfect. And I just like started crying. And I was like, what's happening? What's happening to me? What's you know, what's going on? And she was like, oh, you're ready.

Oh, my God. Is that the sign? I was like, what's happening to my face? It was like a light switch. And so I definitely didn't want to wait that long to start a family. And I had been working nonstop. I did 19 tours in a row from like 2010 to 2016. And so I just needed a break. So when I did fall in love with my husband, Paul, I was ready to go. I was like, okay, I need a break. I like I didn't work. I moved to New York City for him. And he says I only moved to New York just to get pregnant. And what I did, we got pregnant first. Oh, great. Love it. The Kristen and Dax style. Yes. And so we got pregnant in 2017. So we started in 2016. By 2017, I was pregnant. We got married a month before Carmela was born. I was eight and a half

months pregnant at City Hall wearing a black dress because I didn't want to do it. It's not they didn't want to marry him. Our families are really Catholic and I was so against the whole thing. And anyway, I'm really glad we did. I love Paul. And my daughter now, she's like, my mommy got married in a black dress. She thinks it's cool. Oh, I love that. But anyway, I did get pregnant with Carmela sort of accidentally.

I really never kept track of my cycle. I definitely didn't trick Paul into being pregnant. I promise. And so it was the first time I had ever been pregnant and it was really hard. The first trimester, I was really sick, but I was like feeling so sorry for myself. I was living in New York City in my like Rapunzel tower. I was like watching Disney movies and crying all day because I had nothing to do.

I went from working every day to not working at all. I do not recommend that. I recommend being busy in your pregnancy. But I will say everything was normal. All my scans were normal. All my tests were normal. All my tests were normal. My health, sort of my whole pregnancy with Carmela was just in the middle, regular. Had her in January of 2018. It's kind of a crazy thing to just have a baby and to be married for

one month. Oh my God. I don't know how Paul and I actually survived that fourth trimester that we went through because our parents both had the flu and they couldn't come and be with us. And I had exploding boobs and like I had cabbage in my bra. I'm crying harder than Carmela. Like I have like snapshot memories of like becoming a mom. You know, it was really hard, but really wonderful. What's funny is I ended up writing a song about that transition into motherhood because

I did get postpartum depression. And I just remember thinking like, wow, nobody prepared me for this. And I'm like a preparer. I was like neurotic and like wanting to know how to do it. It still flipped my world completely upside down. Postpartum is such a fascinating area, I think. I know I have tons of fear around it because I'm on an antidepressant. I have a tendency towards depression and anxiety and Liz feels the same.

So I know that's like a huge fear. I'm already prone and yikes. Yeah. Did you have that? Yeah. So I even remember sitting with my mother-in-law and Paul. I was like seven months pregnant and I've been sober for 10 years. I've been in a program.

Congratulations. Thank you. So I also have had depression, anxiety, addiction. That's like my whole background. So yes, I was like super, super aware of how this is definitely going to happen to me. And I remember sitting with my family and coming up with like a safe word. If I don't notice I'm crazy or, you know, want to hurt myself with the baby, you know, you read the scariest things. Yes. And every version of postpartum depression that I've heard, because I have been sharing about it, like since I went through it, I like to look at it like a scale. When I went through it, I remember having this realization that it's a wave. And it's not a thing that happens to you. And this, again, is just my experience and everyone's different.

But I thought this was kind of helpful for me is that I was so scared of the word and I was so scared of it being my experience and that then I would have postpartum depression and that would be my identity as a new mom. And when I realized that when you are going through the first year after birth, your body is going through cycles again, just like it would if you were having your period. I would notice my waves and I would lose my hair at one point when I was like four months postpartum. That's when I was the height of my postpartum depression. And I was like, oh, my body is physically riding waves and not about I have

this thing, I have to get rid of it. It was like, I have this thing, I'm going to ride it and I'm going to notice when it's coming. Sometimes women have these crazy fears of hurting their baby or just not connecting with their baby. I actually had so much love for Carmela and I was breastfeeding the whole time. And I really think that the oxytocin helped me through those waves. I don't have a judgment on how you feed your baby at all, but I do believe in the chemicals that are there for us to utilize if we have them. So I think the oxytocin got me through the hardest parts. And then the worst wave I had, it went away as quick as it came. So it definitely wasn't a thing that blanketed my whole life. At 11 months,

I stopped breastfeeding and that's when I felt the lowest. So it made the most sense to me chemically. There are many milestones where they say like, oh, at six weeks, your uterus is healed. And then at 12 weeks, your levels are more balanced and your hormones. And then when you get your period, you know, there are like those milestones, but I also think you can't see what's really going on. Everyone's going to have their own version of it. So for me, whatever I was writing, I peaked at 11 months and at 11 months, Carmela stopped breastfeeding. And so I didn't have the oxytocin from that. And I was really freaked out and I went on medication. That was the first time I did Wellbutrin, I think, to carry me for maybe 90 days. And then I didn't need it anymore. So it really just kind of lifted me.

It lowers the floor. I always say that it just makes your bottom a little higher. Here's what I want to say, though. Now I'm completely in hindsight, being similar to you guys. The fear I had was very valid. But being someone with the experience of depression and anxiety made me a fucking expert. Yes. So it's really how you want to flip the script, because I know people who have gone through postpartum who are so blindsided by emotional pain. I'm like, I've been living with this pain my whole life.

Having anxiety is a superpower in a way. When the pandemic hit, I was like, I'm always preparing for a global disaster. Oh, my God. That's how I felt, too. I made for this. I made for this. Yeah, I lived through it. I definitely wrote a song about it because it was fucking insane. You feel really unhinged. I'm not going to lie, but it also matters who your little village is. I love Paul. I didn't turn to Paul. And a lot of times I didn't turn to my mom because she had a kid 31 years ago. I turned to my little mom chat that I had with like five of my mom friends. And why didn't you turn to Paul? I'm curious. Is it that he didn't really understand? He couldn't

really help or you needed him to do other things, you know, give you other kinds of support? Yes and no. I feel like Paul really did as much as he possibly could. Like he's such a hands-on dad and I am super grateful for him, but he was like sleeping and snoring while I feel like Paul really did as much as he possibly could. Like he's such a hands-on dad and I am super grateful for him. But he was like sleeping and snoring while I'm like breastfeeding seven times a night. It's the same for every partner. Whoever births the child versus whoever is the other partner, there is a disconnect there. And as much as there's a connection that you have deeper than anyone else, there's also a disconnect that happens and a pretty big resentment that will grow that I also tell my new mom friends about. Like, it's okay if you're like, oh my gosh,

how do I hate the person I married? The weight is totally off balance for a while. And it's so much on the mom. And so I would turn to Paul physically if I needed help. But for the venting, for the, is anyone else going through this? Or what do I do with these feelings like that emotional language was really, really beautiful with my mom friends. That's awesome. You know, being a geriatric millennial, I really didn't have a lot of girlfriends growing up. I feel like we were in that generation of girls are all against each other kind of vibe. And it wasn't until I became a mom that I was like, wow, that's totally just false narrative. We've been fed because all the women in my life who are having babies or who

are my age or who do what I do, they're all really awesome. Yeah. There's no competition. Oh my God, zero. And it doesn't have to be big. There's only five of us in this little group chat, but we're still in it. All of our babies are turning five and we're all over the U.S. Like it's not even like we hang out. My best friends, I have those. But then I have like just this little village of moms. Even through this process. Well, you guys have each other.

Yes. I just feel so lucky to get to do it with her and how amazingly supportive she's been in a way that this guy I'm kind of dating, like he's so, so every day, like what can I do? And there's like, there's nothing he can do and there's nothing he can relate to. And that's kind of not his fault. And there's other things that I'm sure Paul did, but women supporting each other in that moment can really offer a unique kind of community that men can't necessarily. And that might be okay. It's okay. Yeah. It's definitely okay. And it's again, a superpower,

right? But I also think what's cool about what you guys are doing is you're definitely getting a preview of what I think pregnancy does because when you are ultimately pregnant you do spend about nine or ten months realizing the imbalance first before baby comes literally I was down the shore with my whole family and I got a watermelon for Paul to wear because it's like all over TikTok or whatever. And we're going to make one of those funny videos. It's funny now. Like this is my fourth pregnancy that I'm in at the moment. It's still funny, but not funny. I'm like so uncomfortable. And like Paul would just be like, I'm so bloated or I'm so tired. And I'm just like, get out. No, you are not.

One of my best friends froze her eggs. Actually, she was my nanny at the time and she was living with us. Well, she's my daughter's nanny, but I tell everyone she's actually my nanny. Yeah. And so I was with her the whole time she was doing that. And so I kind of watched the whole process. And I was saying to her, you really are getting a sneak peek into just kind of how crazy the hormones get.

Also, it's just a preview, but I think it's better than going in blind. At least you have an idea that like, okay, you're really going to carry literally the weight, but also emotionally the weight of the whole thing. And there's a reason that it's us and not them. Yeah. Because I just don't think there'd be people on the planet. No, we're superior. Yeah, with great power comes great responsibility. And that responsibility can be frustrating. And especially when you're kind of trained growing up in our world, where now we're much more aware of sexism, and just the way that inequality can be produced and created and generated. Then you're like, wait a minute, this is unfair. And you're like, no, this is biology. And there is a biological inequality. I mean, men have things. It doesn't truly go both

ways in many respects. I think women do really carry so much more power in that way. I think it's helpful for you to talk about that resentment. I think in relationships, when you feel resentment, you're like, okay, this is a sign that I need to put down a boundary or this is a sign of something I need to do. And in some cases, no, I'm just going to feel that resentment. And it's not because my partner did anything wrong. It's because I just have more responsibility in this moment. Well, 100%. And I also think that that resentment is a clue that you have an expectation, right? And so you're going potentially to the wrong person, which is why I think having the tribe,

which is what women had for the whole beginning of time. We have it all backwards now that we're all just trying to figure it out and do it ourselves. But you need that voice. You need some voice in your life telling you, you're fucking awesome. Keep going. You're strong.

You know, and like that is what my mom friends did for me. They weren't saying, I don't know what to do for you. Right. They're saying, oh, no, you got this. We got this. We're in this together. It's not better or worse. It's just different as far as needs go. It would help me with my resentment with Paul because I just learned where to turn. Yeah, you had an outlet. Yes. You need the whole village. When you hear that your whole life, you're like, what does that

even mean? And that's like, oh, that's what it means. You need someone to be in the trenches with. And those happen to be, I think, other women who are doing or going through the same thing in the same season of their life. So Brene Brown talks so much about resentment, that resentment is actually envy. Oh, that's what that is. It's like, I wish I could not have to put my entire body through this and get a kid, by the way, because that's the thing. You're both getting the kid, right? It's not just like, oh, I'm going through this and I'm getting something separate from you. I'm doing this for us and we're both going to have the same result, but I have to put in all this. But what's helped me seeing how empowering it is that your body can do that.

Sure, I'd love to be a guy, but also it's kind of cool that my body can do this and yours can't. Yeah, it's changing the narrative of I get to as opposed to I have to. It's the similar flipping of the script. It's like, do I want to look at it like, woe is me and this really sucks? Or is it like, no, I'm totally made to do this. Like, I remember when I was actually going into labor, all women are like so fearful of this one event. And I think it's really interesting that when you are actually through it and you're on to the actual taking care of the child you're like holy shit I can't believe I cared so much about one day about like one event but until you go through it it's totally valid and it makes sense it's the scariest day because you have no experience

with it yet so I just think it's interesting that once you get through that, you realize it was just such a small moment and a small thing to be worried about. It's such a good point what you said, because you're right. We watch these biology classes, and it's like, oh my god, this is gonna be so traumatic. And it's like, I bet taking care of this human forever. Totally. That's what I was gonna say. So I remember being pregnant with Carmela going into labor. And the thing I wasn't prepared to feel was actual empowerment. I had Paul there. I had Disney music playing. I had, like, lights on my ceiling.

I was trying to, like, vibe it out. All that really comforted me was that every woman has been doing this since the beginning of time. I can do this. And that, to me, that maternal fucking magic that, like, you don't even realize that you have until you're literally walking through it. And you can be scared and brave at the same time, which is what I tell my four-year-old all the time. Yes. And so I feel like most of pregnancy is that. Liz is crying.

Oh, it's crying. I mean, we should just say I'm not crying on this podcast. Stay tuned for more, if you dare raised to 35 is sponsored by better help okay so i skipped therapy this week because i'm traveling and i feel it i'm just feeling like a little irritable and easily triggered, sensitive, the things that the weekly therapy kind of helps mitigate. It's actually a really good test to skip and be like, oh, wow, I need it. I kind of love those moments. It's like when you get a haircut and like, my hair looks great today. I don't want to get this haircut. Sometimes I feel like that with therapy where I'm like, I'm feeling great about my life. Why am I paying this? And then inevitably something happens,

the wheels fall off and it's very, very useful. So I wish that life came with a user manual, but it does not. So when it's not working for you, it's really normal to feel stuck. So navigating any of life's challenges can make you feel unsure, whether it's a career change, a new relationship or becoming a parent or freezing your eggs. As the world's largest therapy service, BetterHelp has matched 3 million people with professionally licensed and vetted therapists available 100% online. Plus, it's affordable, which we love. So just fill out a brief questionnaire to match with a therapist. If things aren't clicking, you can easily switch to a new therapist anytime. It couldn't be simpler.

No waiting rooms, no traffic, no endless searching for the right therapist. Couldn't be simpler. No waiting rooms, no traffic, no endless searching for the right therapist. Learn more and save 10% off your first month at BetterHelp.com slash fertility. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash fertility. We are supported by Vegamore. From curling and straightening to hairspray to over bleaching, we have all done some damage to our hair over the years. I'm starting to panic a

little bit, but thank goodness I have Vegamour because my hair is thinning and I have thick hair. I'm known for it. It's an identity marker. And I'm in the shower and like half of my head is coming out. I mean, mine too. I think it's part of growing up after a certain age. You are again, when you're stressed, it can go with a lot of different things. You're already stressed. You don't want to be losing your hair on top of it or it thinning out. So give Vegamore a try. It has really transformed my hair. Their holistic approach to hair health uses smart botanicals that promote visibly thicker, fuller, longer hair. And Vegamore has something for everyone, whether it's the grow revitalizing shampoo and conditioner kit, which works really well together to create thicker hair

and improve roots. You just massage your shampoo into your scalp for 60 seconds. Then you follow it up with a conditioner and it's as simple as that. Yeah. And I love it because their products are cruelty-free and never contain parabens or hormones, and they don't have all those crazy chemicals, which you feel like you might need when you're trying to make your hair grow, but you don't. You can just use Vegamore. So don't let the damage of the past hold your hair back. See your hair's full potential with Vegamore. Go to vegamore.com slash fertility and use code fertility to save 20% on your first order. That's V-E-G-A-M-O-U-R dot com slash fertility. Code fertility to save 20% at vegamore.com slash fertility. I don't know if anyone has seen the critically acclaimed movie Bounce with my boyfriend, Ben Affleck and Gwyneth Paltrow, but I have seen it many, many, many,

many, many times. There's a line in it that I will never forget, which is it's not brave if you're not scared. Wow. And I think about that all the time. And it's really the truth. Like what's brave about it if there's no fear involved? Sure. Well, I feel like that is a great segue into the really awful next couple years of my life. What happened?

Tell us. Okay. really awful next couple years of my life. What happened? Tell us. Okay, so I'm actually very beyond beyond grateful that I have Carmela because in a fertility journey, there are so many versions where, you know, people don't have a incredible three and a half or two or four year old, you know, during the whole process of going through grief or loss. So I'm really glad though, that I have a really positive experience to share first. Also that I guess has given me that hope to or the strength to be brave, to continue to be brave, because in my mind I go, well, I've done this before and it's worked before, you know. And again, I think that's also being lucky because, like I said, some people don't have that. Some people have the most infertility with their first child and they don't have a reference of I can do this. So I really just want to make room for the people who don't have a Carmela and

how grateful I am that I do because what happened over the next four years has been absolutely heartbreaking and then also really transformative and amazing. So it's really bizarre. So I had Carmel in 2018, somehow survived my first year, kind of leveled out, started feeling good, started working again in 2019. And then I got pregnant, really wanted to have another kid. Like my family's super Italian. They're gigantic. We all want tons of kids. And so I was so happy about it. And this was Thanksgiving of 2019. We told our families. I made it to 11 weeks and then I miscarried. I have this like memory. I don't know what you guys were doing on New Year's Eve, 2019 going into 2020, but I feel like it's such like a monumental moment now for the whole world because we all went through such like a massive trauma. Yes. Before we knew. Yes. And what's so

crazy is like, I couldn't have been more dramatic. There's a picture that someone took from behind us. And I'm like holding Paul, holding Carmela and pregnant and looking at fireworks at Disney World at midnight going into 2020. Like this is going to be the best year of my life. Oh my God. It's so sad. So sad.

Right? Like I thought about like, maybe I'm going to write a book. And if I do, like, that's going to be the first page. Like, I'm going to, like, put that picture. Because that says it all, dude. The best laid plans. Yes. Narrator voice, like, she had no idea what was coming next. Yeah. It's just such a specific visual for, like, what I thought my life was going to be and then how different it got. I just imagine that picture. And it to me, it's like the last time things felt OK. I mean, now everything feels OK. But like for what happened between that photo and now, there was so much feeling not OK that like I

just kept thinking it was almost like B.C.A.D. Like it was like, yes, before Disney World, after Disney World. Yeah, literally B.C. But for me, I do Disney World. My terrible 2020 started January 10th. Oh, wow. And then the world shut down. So it was really weird to going through my own personal pandemic while the whole world was also. I miscarried at 11 weeks on January 10th of 2020. But I've heard so much about miscarriage. I was 32. And I was heartbroken. But now looking back, I just knew it was common. I knew it was one in four women. And maybe it's because I have all the apps and I did all the research and I have all the mom groups and my friends have had miscarriages and women I know and since the beginning of time, and I feel like

people are now talking about it publicly. I just remember thinking, I was really shocked. I was really heartbroken. I had to get through that, but I wasn't hopeless. I think it's worth noting. Like I didn't think to myself, oh, I'm not going to try again. I thought to myself, this is a genetic randomness. I'm not religious. So I just believe in science and it being a random genetic abnormality. And like, I got to move forward. I didn't think something was wrong. You know, a lot of people are like, what did I do? But it was still the first trimester. Like I thought, well, this is just the risk we take getting pregnant. Wasn't a viable pregnancy.

Yeah, I really just stuck to the science on it. And the statistics, I thought they were really helpful for me. So I remember my doctor saying to me, do you want to do an autopsy on the embryo? And I was like, no, no, it's okay. Just keep it moving. Yeah. Also because I had a Carmela, I had a normal pregnancy before I had no other health issues. I was also shocked. I was in the hospital. I was getting a DNC to, you know, remove the embryo because the thing is the baby did have a heartbeat. Now in hindsight, I realized once there's a heartbeat and Now, in hindsight, I realize once there's a heartbeat and you hear a heartbeat, something does go wrong if baby dies. So it could be completely genetic abnormality. And that is the reason. But after a heartbeat, there's a trail.

Most people don't go down it. I have done so much research on things just from then till now. It's so hard for women to even look into it. You know, I know how sensitive of a topic it is. So just a warning, everything we're going to talk about in the next 10 minutes is probably very triggering. Yeah. Yeah. Sensitive content. I fell in the category of I didn't think I needed to know. I didn't know that information. I knew that it was common, but I didn't know that I needed to look into it. Can you tell people, if you don't mind, what a DNC miscarriage, what happens in that versus an earlier one? Well, the truth is I don't know exactly with an earlier one.

I'm just assuming you bleed and it passes on its own, like through your body and out your body. But after I don't know the exact time, I'm going to probably say between six weeks and then 11 weeks where I was like, I think pre six weeks, the baby leaves your body on your own. Yeah. And then I think it's six weeks that's after that the baby has to be removed. And a DNC is a bit like an abortion. Yeah, it's a medical abortion. So they put you to sleep and then you wake up and it's over. So I really don't know what exactly happened.

And I was shocked. I mean, I went from the doctor's office to the hospital for the DNC and then home. So there was no time to even process it. It was just done. I went home and I just wasn't pregnant anymore. Wow. Wow. And I did have a two year old at home, but she didn't have any idea I was pregnant. I think I've said it around her, but she wasn't at the age where it clicked. I remember hugging her and crying and me and Paul coming home from the hospital and her playing.

And like, I did not have to tell her. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't that like gentle parenting. Let me tell her everything. I wasn't even showing. Everyone knew it happened and we talked openly about it, but Carmela didn't grasp it. So this was January of 2020. And then I think I've spent like a week or so recovering at home because I was physically just kind of exhausted.

And my body was shocked. You go from being pregnant to not being pregnant and your HCG levels take a long time to go back down. That I did not know that you are still, like if I were to pee on a stick after having a DNC and a miscarriage, I was pregnant on a stick for maybe two more months. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So your body, I want to say when you get pregnant, your HCG levels double every day. Oh, wow. So if you think about it that way, when you're 11 weeks pregnant, you're a certain amount pregnant,

right? That HCG level will be in the, you know, hundreds of thousands. And then it has to go back down to zero. So that's what actually takes so long. So I do remember I got a fever. I remember I was calling my doctor, doctor like I feel awful. And she was like, yeah, you're becoming unpregnant. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Yeah, it was a very odd thing that you just wouldn't know if you didn't go through it. The emotional pain mixed with physical.

It was like, OK, I went through this thing. And the truth is, I got a tattoo because that's how I deal with pain. I wrote a song about it and I went to therapy. I mean, those were my three things. Everybody heals in a different way. After I felt physically better, I went to Nashville. I started working on my album again. Everyone suggested I go and work.

What I do is so therapeutic anyway. So it's like, OK, I'm going to write about this pain. I'm going to write about this stuff. And so I wrote a song called Roses in the Rain because we're going to name her Rosie, the baby that died. And then I got this tattoo here. For the listeners, it's a rose on your hand. Yeah.

And this was all in Nashville in February of 2020. And I really did the work. I did the therapy. I did the trauma therapy. I do EMDR therapy. I also go to meetings. I'm like all about that health life. So I definitely felt OK. And, you know, like I said go to meetings. I'm like all about that health life. So I definitely felt okay. And

you know, like I said, hopeful still. And I also want to say I shared about it on social media. And I know social media is really weird. But I think there's a sweet spot that sometimes you can land in when people are supportive, you know, and like, I have to say, I don't have many people sending me tons of hate. I mean, when I first started my career, and like, I have to say, I don't have many people sending me tons of hate. I mean, when I first started my career, maybe like people didn't like my teeth. And I was like, whatever. But yeah, I mean, clearly, I still remember. But I as a 30 something now, all the people that listen to my music are so freaking sweet. And I kind of like grown up with me, and they're all in the same season of life. When I shared about having a miscarriage, I was given so much fucking love and support. And I have many, many times thanked all these people. And I opened

my DMs and I'm like talking to all these women and they were just like, welcome to the worst club ever. But we love you and we're holding space for you and we're here for you. And again, because it's really about a village. These are women I don't even know. Yeah. But people just surrounded me with love. But I think it's really important because so many women don't share about their miscarriages. And I get the historic generational trauma that makes you shut down and not share. But I'd love to say by sharing,

I healed so much faster. I was so loved. I think it's the shame. It goes back to that. I think there's something about people who really want to keep it private. And I do understand is they think they did something wrong. They think there's something wrong with their body and they find shame in it. They're not a good woman. All these things that are vestigial old stuff that sit in us, it still exists even though we've evolved. And culturally, my family just being super Italian, like everybody just didn't talk about anything when I was growing up. We really have to make an effort to not be that way. And what I've learned is that by opening up and telling the truth, even if it's to a small group

of people, you allow yourself to be loved versus dealing with it alone. Those are your really two options or maybe with your partner. But again, that's probably not the person you need to turn to. So anyway, I healed and I went back to work. Then the world shut down. We all have our own version of March, April, May, June, right of 2020. I got pregnant again. It's actually not that easy to get pregnant. So in my mind, I thought, well, I must be ready. My body must be ready. I must be totally healed from the miscarriage. I had my period again. I'm good to go. And then I was stuck at home with Paul, you know, and we were hanging out, whatever. I got pregnant. Hanging out, Netflix and chilling. Classic pandemic baby, right? So I found out Mother's Day of 2020

and everything was normal. And I will say it wasn't a normal world. I was, you know, doing Zoom doctor's appointments. Paul wasn't allowed to come with me when I went into the office. That was a really hard, challenging time for every single woman who was pregnant or having a baby or dealing with fertility in any capacity. So many women weren't allowed to do IVF. They, you know what I mean? It just like messed up everything. So it was just one extra added challenge, I think, for our whole generation. But I went to all my doctor's appointments.

I was taking my prenatal. The one thing I took this time was progesterone. My doctor put me on progesterone as a precaution for, I guess this happens for women who have miscarriages. This I didn't know. Sometimes women have low progesterone and then if you take it as a supplement, it kind of helps your pregnancy just continue if it wasn't going to. In hindsight now, and this is just my opinion and my experience, like I probably wouldn't do that again because of what happened. Like maybe I wouldn't have had such a late loss. But again, there is zero way I can look backwards and have done things different. So it's not helpful to think that, but I'm just sharing. So I did take that and I went to all my doctor's appointments and they sent me to a high risk fetal medicine

doctor and I was in New York City. And so I had my regular OBGYN and a high risk fetal medicine doctor and I was in New York City. And so I had my regular OBGYN and a high risk fetal medicine doctor because I had had a miscarriage. I started taking like thyroid medicine. My thyroid was out of whack. And then that made me high risk. I wasn't geriatric yet. I was still only 33. But my experience made me, I guess, eligible for extra scans, which honestly, ask any pregnant woman will take all the scans. Oh, yeah, it was not a nuisance for me at all. I was super excited every time. The first 30 weeks, I had absolutely zero complications in my pregnancy, completely normal. I even made an album. I literally like flew my producers. I had a house in New Jersey,

and we rented like a studio. I was recording I was working I was totally feeling normal. At 30 weeks pregnant, which was November 10 of 2020, I walked in for my 30 week scan, and there was something wrong with the baby's intestines. They rushed me to the hospital. And at this point, what's really crazy is trauma is such a beast when you try to understand it. The trauma of finding out something was wrong versus the trauma of my daughter passing away, they were so different. Because at least for 12 days, I knew something was wrong. And then she passed away. But that first initial trauma of like, I've been fine for 30 weeks. And now you're not fine. You're going straight to the hospital. And

you're going to stay here for six weeks. Like that's what I was told. And like walking into the hospital, you were fine. It's like within 10 seconds, your world flips. Yes. And I will say at this point now, Carmela is developmentally so far advanced, like normal two and a half year old. She absolutely was just as traumatized as me and Paul because we didn't come home. That little two year old that didn't even notice I had a miscarriage in January was so fucked up from us not coming home that I actually reached out for toddler specialists like on Instagram, all these big little feelings and

Dr. Becky and all these really cool mom Instagram accounts that one day you guys will probably know about. I reached out to them for help. Our daughter, I can tell all of a sudden her world flipped upside down because we didn't come home and no one told her what was going on. So that's a whole other thing is like how fucking smart kids are. I asked for so much help. That's like the one thread of my whole story is I just always asked for help. But anyway, so I found out something was wrong with her intestines. And then they told us everything would be fine. I went to four specialists. I met with a pediatric surgeon. They said that the baby was going to be born, go right into surgery, live in the NICU, but totally survivable, that she had this thing

called atresia of the gut, which is like a tiny blockage in the intestines. But it's common. It's not the most common. It's not the most rare. It's like somewhere in the middle. The woman had done thousands of surgeries before. We were very comforted. Like this is in that 10 day window. I also had the head of Lenox Hill Hospital working directly with me. Wow. My OBGYN, the fetal medicine doctor, and then a fetal MRI specialist up in Westchester. So like I'm talking four doctors of probably the best in New York City.

Yeah. High caliber. Definitely. They were all invested and they were all unanimous. So like four doctors couldn't have all been wrong. This is why I really don't blame any of them for anything because they were all talking to each other and they're all devising a plan. And Paul and I felt really safe. And we were so educated. They told us everything from good to bad, all the scenarios. We were so prepared. I read everything you could possibly read about infant atresia. Like, you know, I was like, we were ready.

She was supposed to definitely live is what we were told. And then November 24th of 2020, she passed away. And it was so shocking. I was at home with Paul, we had been monitored that morning. So what they were doing is they were doing this thing where every two days, they would monitor the baby and me like a stress test, a fetal monitoring test, where they are testing the baby's vitals, my vitals, the baby's heartbeat and sort of activity for a whole hour. Like you just kind of lay there, they put this thing on you. So apparently all the doctors in the history of the OBGYN protocols, that is supposed to prove that baby and mom are okay. This even broke their paradigm of normalcy. Yeah. So I went and got monitored at 11 a.m. on the 24th.

And then at 11 p.m., Paul and I were like watching TV and I just knew something was wrong. I hadn't felt her move. So within 12 hours, she had passed away. And I definitely tried to sort of get her to move. I was like eating chocolate and drinking apple juice. And I went to the hospital and my OBGYN met me there. So I kind of had a bad feeling when I saw her because she was like, well, just go if you're worried.

But then like she was there and I was like, oh, God. It was kind of like kind of like a movie moment. I was like laying there just staring at the ceiling. And the whole scene was happening happening just listening to everyone talk about it and cry the doctors were crying the nurses were crying paul was crying and i wasn't i was so shocked you know for like a good little while i was like okay you know what do we do now i was so traumatized so it doesn't help when the doctors and nurses cry i know they're humans but wow but here's the thing too. They had delivered Carmela

and they had walked me through my miscarriage. And just the way I am in life, I like text them. Yeah, of course. I think it was probably unique. I'm sure most doctors and nurses don't cry, but they were like, no, no, no. Yeah. It was personal to them i understand it i just know in the moment for you it's like oh yeah but i will say the hero in this moment was my doctor because they have to take the baby out i mean there's no way around it right and so it's all happening very fast and also they're not rushing me too they're like, just take a minute. And I said, I need you to just sedate me. Like I need you to put me under and take the baby out.

Obviously, the pain is so huge. Like, of course, I don't want to be here. Of course, I want someone to knock me out, like just shoot me with heroin. I don't even care. Right. And I mean, I've been sober. I mean, it must have been triggering for your sobriety. I have to imagine. Yes.

mean, it must have been triggering for your sobriety. I have to imagine. Yes. The only joyful moment of the next six weeks was actually in the hospital when they gave me an Ativan. And like my husband, Paul tells this story because it really is the only time we laughed and the whole staff laughed was they gave me an Ativan before they put me into labor. And it was so good because I hadn't had drugs for 10 years and I literally looked at Paul and I was like do you want one oh my god like the whole room the whole room started cracking up and Paul's like Christina this is not a nightclub yeah right and I was like oh yeah yeah yeah so it was like the only break for a second where we all just sort of laughed but the doctor did say to me she said Christina do whatever you want to do but if you want to get home to Carmela sooner, you have to give birth

naturally, like vaginally. If you have a C-section, you're going to be in the hospital for two days. And if you have a regular birth, you can go home to Carmela. Oh, my God. So I wanted was to go home because I knew she was going to be expecting the baby to come home because I had told her if mommy and daddy don't come home again, we're going to the hospital to have the baby. I mean, it was heavy. It was like, oh my God, the heaviest thing ever. And so the reason why she was the hero is because I'm so glad I met Rosie. Like I am so grateful that we chose that because we had 12 hours to process what was going on because I was in labor and you know they induced me but it took a long time yeah Paul and I bonded probably the strongest bond we'll ever have we were able to talk to our families we were able to make a plan

with Carmilla again I reached out to Big Little Feelings, Dr. Becky Kennedy, Janet Lansbury, who wrote No Bad Kids. She's literally the best there is. And she wrote me. And so I'm really grateful for that reprieve. Because if I had gone under, I have no judgment for whatever any woman chooses. I'm just saying I'm really glad in that moment that I chose to do it that way. And that Paul and I chose to meet her, say goodbye to her, hold her, you know, and have a moment with her and then to move on. Because I think that was really just important in our experience. You know, it was heartbreaking, but I think it was important for us. And so we did meet her and I didn't know it was a girl, but she popped out and they said it's a girl and she's sleeping, which was the hardest thing I ever heard in my life.

And we named her Rosie because we named her after the baby that we were going to have in January before. And then we had to move on with our lives. And honestly, all I cared about was Carmela. about was Carmela. And we came up with a plan where because she was so young, I think most people would think you do not have to tell them the truth. But what I learned and what I asked every toddler specialist about and the two social workers at the hospital, two doctors at the hospital, I mean, I really, really asked everyone their opinion. And I wanted so badly for someone to say to me, just lie. You know, literally no one did. Everyone said you have to tell her the truth. And I was like, well, what does that even mean to an almost three year old? Like, what is the truth? What is death?

Oh, my God, the can of worms that gets opened up. Well, you would think. But what's so interesting, everyone said to me, say the truth, but the bare minimum and let her ask the questions so you don't overshare but you don't undershare and i'm just like okay you're like you know what i mean like paul and i were like practicing the whole you know drive home like what we're gonna say to her we had a script what we're gonna say and we walked in the room and our nanny who is still my best friend your nanny yeah my nanny literally because our moms my best friend. Your nanny. Yeah, my nanny, literally. Because our moms were there.

Our whole families were at our house. But they were too emotional to do this. So Meredith, our nanny, took Carmela to her room. And then we went straight to her room before we saw our families because then we would just like, you know, cry. And so we're trying to be really, really strong. We went to Carmela's room. I remember this so vividly. And we sat down with her.

She was so excited to see us because we were gone for a day and a half. And she's playing in her room. And we said, you know, Carmela, Mommy, Daddy really have to tell you something. I was like shaking a little bit, but I was like the stronger of the two, me and Paul. And I was like in my head, like reading a script, you know. And I was like, your body is really healthy and it works. Daddy's body is really healthy and it works. Mommy's body is really healthy and it works and we're safe. And your little baby sister was born and her body didn't work and she died.

And then we said nothing, right? And I'm like not even breathing. And Carmela just kind of looks at us. And she processes it for a second. And then, talk about an empath. She literally looks me in the eye. She says, don't worry, Mom and Dad. One day you'll have another baby and their body will work.

Oh, my God. We lost it. Sometimes they really know what to say. They really do. Can you even believe that? I still can't run my head around it. What a gift. Yeah, she is a gift.

I'm telling you, if there is one way to describe Carmela, that is it. Because then that's how it went for the rest of the year and a half. Carmela was in it with us. She understood something so huge in a way I didn't think, you know, that was possible. All her questions from then on, like months later, she'd be like, did Rosie have hair? Like she'll just like think of things. She just wasn't afraid of death. I think it's so fascinating to me that our culture, and I hate that I'm even, again, part of a club where I even know this. I joke around with my friends like I'm so self-aware it's like ruined my life.

It's so interesting that we're taught the weirdest shit about death when we're growing up in a religious family or any kind of belief system. And I'm not trying to talk shit on religion. But for me, I was really traumatized growing up Catholic because to a child, it's scary. Yeah, also there's a verdict after you die. Do you get to go to the happy place or the horrible place? Like, yes, trauma. There's so much odd and unhelpful and scary language around death that I realized that the

only way to not scare my child about it was to not teach her that she's going to be exposed to whatever she's exposed to but right now she's four and a half she's still not afraid of dying she said to my dad two weeks ago on vacation like pop up you're the oldest person i know and he's like yeah you know i am he's from italy and uh she's like you're gonna die and he's like yeah you know we all die and she's like i know i'll see you next time. Like, this is how Carmela thinks. She doesn't have fear around it. And I don't want to say that every kid's the same. There's no way.

I mean, this is just obviously Carmela's experience. But what she does know is that, like, Rosie's in our hearts. Me and Paul got a Rosie tattoo on our chest. She talks to Rosie in her heart. She, like, pulls a shirt. She's like, hey, girl, it's me. And, like, for now, that's great. It's honestly, I'm so grateful for all the people that helped me get through that because

it was all such good advice. Stay tuned for more if you dare. We are supported by Framebridge. We are supported by Framebridge. I almost feel guilty that Framebridge pays us because they don't need to pay us. I talk about it all the time. I use it all the time. I love it.

We are coming up on the holidays. It's such an easy gift, you guys. It looks like you put in so much time and effort, but you kind of didn't because they do sort of everything for you. I 100% feel the same way. All of the stuff in my apartment is Framebridge. And they were so nice when I moved into my apartment in Brooklyn. I went into the store and everything and it was such a pleasant, beautiful experience. Not only, yeah, is the product incredible and way cheaper than doing it with a traditional framing shop. But yeah, then you're like, what else can I frame? How else can I use this in my life? Exactly. And that's what I love about it.

You can get really crafty. Let's say you're getting married and you save the menu from your first date or something. And you can frame that on Framebridge. It doesn't just have to be a picture. It can be something even like 3D. And it's so sweet. When you go into the stores, you really see how creative people get. And it'll really inspire you to Monica's point. Just become the best gift giver and you start early. So then

Christmas is a breeze or whatever holiday you celebrate. I also love it because it is so affordable and framing is so expensive in general. Yeah. Framing is one of those things. It's like an adulting thing where you're like, I couldn't have known that this was going to be so expensive. It's a weird thing that's expensive, but it is, but not with Framebridge. So get started today, frame your photos or give someone the perfect gift. Go to framebridge.com and place your order today. Race to 35 is sponsored by Modern Fertility. Okay, Liz, did you know that one out of eight couples struggle with infertility? That's a pretty staggering stat. And you never know. People don't really talk about it.

And most times we think about fertility in women, but sometimes it's the man, sometimes it's both people. Exactly. And we need good data and information about our bodies in order to have informed conversations with our doctors and make the best decisions for ourselves and the future. So modern fertility is really cool because you can hormone test at home. That's amazing because Monica and I talk a lot about blacking out when we receive information in a doctor's office. And so the fact that you can do this at home in the comfort of your own place and do it on your own time and then get the results when you're ready, sit down, have a candle on and your favorite snack so that you're ready for the results. So with Modern Fertility, you'll get insights into your hormone levels, like your ovarian reserve, aka if you have more or fewer eggs than average for your age,

which would have come in real handy for us. The results go deep into what every hormone means. And you can also download the results to review with your doctor. I wish we'd had this. Wow. Me too. It would have saved me a lot of stress and a lot of time. Yeah. Honestly, it's just such crucial data. Right now, Modern Fertility is offering our

listeners $30 off the test when you go to modernfertility.com slash race to 35. This is a limited time offer for $30 off. Get $30 off your fertility test when you go to modernfertility.com slash race to 35. modernfertility.com slash race to three five. Modernfertility.com slash race to three five. I have some people in my life who have dealt with this. One recently, a very good friend had a miscarriage. And I know it got very complicated with her husband because no one talks about this when no one knows what to do. No one knows how to handle it. I think the husband felt very conflicted, like he was feeling pain, but he didn't want to impress upon her that he was feeling pain because he didn't want her to feel like it was her fault. But then are you feeling anything? You know, there's just a lot

that comes up. And I wonder what y'all's experience was as a couple through that. And what did you need from him? Were you able to give him space to have his own feelings? Do you think men should have that village too? In a lot of cases, men are like, I know your grief is so much bigger than mine, but I also have grief. So do you think there should be a village for men to, you know, in a way to support? It goes so many different ways. When you are dealing with loss, it's statistically just like the hardest thing on marriage. And so, you know, I feel like whatever version someone is in, as long as you're trying to stay in it because it it probably like couldn't be more dividing because there's absolutely no way to take away the pain or the physical trauma from

the woman but i will say there's also nothing correct you can say so the partner whoever they are is in such a hard position and when you're're in it, you do not have that perspective. I only have it now that I'm not super in it anymore. You know, Paul and I worked through it with a therapist. I had so many moments where I just couldn't even look at him. I also think it's important to be honest with yourself. He was saying this happened to me too. And I was just like, fuck you. Right? Yeah. I'm not gonna pretend that I was like, Zen about any of it. I said things I'm super not proud of. He definitely had moments where he was super husband and then super unhelpful. We both clashed so much about it. I do think we also kept

directing each other to our villages. We also bonded in that way where he would say, go call your sponsor, go call your mom group. And I would say, go call your dad or your friends or whatever. And we kind of made room for each other. And I also think it was helpful we had Carmela because we couldn't rip each other's heads off. We had this toddler who was watching us. And the last thing I'll say is I went on Prozac. I have to give props to my SSRI. I took that Wellbutrin for like a minute when I had postpartum, but I really, really am pro-medicine and I needed a life raft. And I will say it wasn't even Paul that made me accept that I wanted to do this because for a while, especially in sobriety, people have so many opinions about mental health and medicine

that are really old school and I think really unhelpful. But I, myself, I'd be like, oh, medicine's so great for you. Like, I'm so happy for you. But then the moment I needed it, I was like too stubborn to take it. I want to say it was about six months after Rosie died and I was really low. Like, I remember I was really having thoughts that were scaring me. And I was just like, I don't even want to get out of bed.

And I also had to go through the fourth trimester. I had to go through all the hormones. I had to go through postpartum without her. Not to mention that's like a whole other thing too for lost moms. But I was struggling and I was trying my best at the same time. I was doing all my therapies and the couple's therapies and Paul was doing, you know, we were doing it all and I still was drowning. And so I went on Prozac for me. I really didn't do it for him. I will say I did it definitely for Carmela too.

Like I can't deny that. I just didn't want her to hold any of the heaviness. She's too empathetic. She's going to carry this. I needed help. I just like straight up asked for it. And then I took Prozac and now Paul and I laughed at like our marriage is sponsored by Prozac. Like many others. It was honestly a game changer, but I don't want to not mention it. I did not do it alone. I think accepting it's going to be really hard for you and your partner is maybe the first step because if you think you're doing it wrong because you guys are so against or having such a hard time, I think the best thing you can do is

just know that everybody has a hard time with their partner and that if, like I said, as long as you're trying, like I think if you can go to counseling or therapy or up your medicine or talk to your sponsor, whatever your process is for healing, that's when you have to lean into it the most. But there's no shame in having the hardest fucking time ever because I don't know one person or one couple that doesn't. That's a constant. I've heard my whole time healing from all this. Yeah, I think maybe also forgiving yourself for all the feelings you have. They're all fine. They're going to happen.

You have to let them happen. You can't fight it. Such good advice. We honestly really bonded as a family. And we moved from New York to L.A. on January 1st of that year. I was like, I need my best friends because they were all in L.A. I needed sunshine. I needed a refuge.

You know, we were on the East Coast and it was only where bad things had happened. Like I literally was like in LA and then moved to the East Coast. All these things happened. So I was like, I'm done. Do over. Yeah. I literally, I cut up my license like 70 times when I got my California one and Paul's like, I think it's dead. You know, that's trauma. And so as soon as we got to LA, dead. You know, that's trauma. And so as soon as we got to LA, I did EMDR, gave myself like six weeks to just heal with my family. And I really got into the work. And back to what I said about not really wanting to know why, like a lot of people don't want to know because it's so painful. I just felt like I had nowhere to go, but up. Okay, this is the worst thing. And now I'm going to learn about it. I'm going to ask a

million questions because something seems very wrong at this point. And I was like, what did I miss? Right. And so I went on like a crazy investigation. My OBGYN in LA, who was my OBGYN for 10 years before I moved to New York, is like the coolest, smartest, oddest woman ever. And I was like, if anyone's going to help me figure it out, it's her. smartest, oddest woman ever. And I was like, if anyone's gonna help me figure it out, it's her. And so I really went deep. And I think this was also part of my healing. Like I said earlier, I like to understand. So when I was doing all my therapy and trauma therapy, and then Paul was doing therapy, and he was in Al-Anon, and then Carmela had two different therapies, like we were all healing in so many ways. And we did marriage counseling, me and Paul, we did all the things that were recommended to us. But at the same time, I was

like, well, I'm not going to stop until I figure out what happened. I really wanted to know. So when they asked me this time about doing an autopsy on Rosie, I said, absolutely. I said, every test. And then they found nothing. And then they did me and Paul, test on me and Paul, they found nothing. So I was like, okay. So then I brought a stack of paper this big to my OB in LA. She sat with me for two hours. I mean, there's always an advocate in every story. Yeah. An angel. There's someone who's like, I will listen to you and trust you or believe you. And so she sat with me and she said to me something that I'll never forget my whole life, which is they get mad at me when I do this, but I'm going to test you for a blood clot. And I was like, okay. Now in my mind, I'm like, well, I didn't have a blood clot. I would have noticed right in my mind of blood

clots, like somewhere on my body would have felt it. If it was in my placenta, they would have seen it. But in my mind, I'm like, who's they like, what? Right. who's they like what right also ew I hate that I hate right I know well guess what you're not gonna like where this goes oh my god okay but that was like my little Erin Brockovich ear that was like oh they what you know like I heard it but I was like well I probably don't have that she was like I'm gonna test you for everything because I want to help you figure out what happened and I'm like well going to test you for everything because I want to help you figure out what happened. And I'm like, well, they did test me for everything. What do you mean? She's like, well, I'm going to do it my way. So literally she tested me for, you know, all my levels of all the things, which should be standard. And I'm pretty sure are as far as thyroid and vitamins and

hormone levels and you know, all that. But she added in this blood clot test. Turns out I tested positive for something called APS, which is antiphospholipid syndrome. It means that I had a blood clot for both of these babies. No one caught it. And the solution is a blood thinner if I want to have a baby who's alive. And they don't test women for it unless they've had three or more losses.

You're kidding me. And it's a test. It's just a test. It is a blood test. It's a blood test. Why? Why? I know.

Money? I know. They're making women go through all of this i know well you're having a reaction that i had i mean but i got pretty angry first well i had a little bit of relief that i figured it out processing these feelings going okay i should be happy about this not happy about what happened but happy i found the answer happy there's a solution happy it's as simple as taking a fucking blood thinner all this stuff is going through my mind but then just the way that i am i was like how come i didn't know about this

yeah how come no one knows about this if i'm more on the side of educating myself and super healthy and sober and health conscious and all these things and i don't know about this there's no fucking way anybody else knows about this in amer. So I hang up with my doctor, immediately call my entertainment lawyer, who's like one of my best friends, but his wife is like an activist. And like, they're just so amazing that as a couple, they just are like so involved in everything. And I was like, okay, I don't want anyone to know I'm doing this, but I would like for you to pull your health care lawyer lady from your firm aside. And I want to have her do some research for me because maybe what I have is really rare. Maybe this is so rare that I just need to move forward and be like, that was really unlucky and unfortunate.

And I developed it randomly somehow. But it's so rare that like no one needs to know about it. But I have this like weird feeling. So I would love to do some research on this lie. He calls me two weeks later after his firm did research just in New York state. And it came back 55% of miscarriages, multiple miscarriages. So that means a second or third or fourth or fifth were due to one of these seven blood clotting diseases oh and my lawyer was in tears he was like i don't know how to tell you this i was like god damn it i have a whole new purpose in life 55 so many millions of children

right are miscarried or stillborn or or women who have late pregnancy loss and i am part of this club of so so many fucking people we don't get to put a purpose to this awful thing anyone who says like things happen for a reason can just go fuck themselves that's never helpful when you lose someone yeah but in my mind like i don't know what happened but i think maybe it was how I was going to channel my grief. I was like, OK, I would like to believe that Rosie was only supposed to live for 34 weeks to teach me this. And that that was supposed to be the length of her life so that we can change this, because I think millions of babies will be saved over time. If 55% of multiple miscarriages are due to what I have found out is APS, Factor V, MDM,

FMR, there are so many types and they're all discovered by this one free blood test in the first trimester. But why aren't they doing that standard? Okay, first of all, so let's- I have Factor V. How did you find out about it?? Okay, first of all, so- I have factor V. How did you find out about it? My dad had a stroke. He didn't know he had it.

Only after the stroke, because the blood clot, and he has arrhythmia, so the little hole in your heart. So you had a hole in one stroke where it goes to your brain, right? Through your heart. Yeah. And then my sister got tested. I don't like to know things

because I have a lot of anxiety about things, but I realized I should have done it immediately. So my sister has one mutation. And then when I started talking about egg freezing with my friend, Alyssa, who has a company called Lilia Helping Women do this, she was like, you should get tested. And then I did the test and I have the mutation. So I have an extra round of shots, even for this egg freezing of blood thinners. Are you taking Lovenox? Yes. I call it Lovenox because I get it wrong.

My belly is covered in bruises. Oh, fun. That'll be our club. I mean, Monica's part of that club too, because you're jacking up a bunch of stuff. I have been shooting her up with these injections. But also, we talk about sim, simulation. But the fact that you're sitting here right now and if you hadn't. Could have been you.

And if my dad hadn't had a stroke or came a few years later. You would have had no reason. Well, here's the thing. The only exceptions of people who find out about this are women with the predisposition from family, hereditary, I mean, or women with IVF sometimes are tested for this if the baby has an arrhythmia. That's the only group of people who get to find this out. And it's crazy because I had a very healthy pregnancy and I was under 35. So they wouldn't test me for this until I had one more loss. So I really tried to zoom out. And I spent a year and a half doing so much research and so much gathering of information for the American College of

Obstetricians and Gynecologists. It turns out, and here's the answer to your first question, why? Because I went on the why search for a really long time. And I truthfully do not think that there is a group of men because you know, they're all guys on the board. I do not think there's a group of men who thought, let's just kill all these babies and not tell them about this. I had to really, really not be angry. I had to do a lot of work on this because I just think in women's health, we have progressed very slowly, but we have progressed really dramatically when someone is at risk. So the research I've done and the best analogy I can make is that between 26 and 28, universally, every single woman gets a test for gestational diabetes. I have met with so many people now in the health world and they say, yeah, we added that test because all of a sudden obesity became a health risk for all Americans.

And I was like, bingo. So you need something to happen like a catalyst of some kind to get eyeballs and ears on an issue that most people are not talking about. I don't think it's intentional. I think it's just an oversight because the more research I did, I'm like, well, it's free. We already do 12 tests in the prenatal screening. It's only one added cc of blood. That's what I don't understand. Like, why wouldn't they just throw that in as an extra?

Because of being over treated. I can fight every angle of this because then if that's their argument, I can say, but I get the right to choose. So women need the right. And I hate that it comes back constantly, always to a women's issue and a misogyny issue and like information issue. But it is because what happens is, say, you didn't know about factor five, I didn't know about APS. Say we all get the blood test when we go in for we want to get pregnant because they do a panel if you like want to be pregnant, but some people just get pregnant. So then they do the panel in the first trimester. And the truth is, you can't test for this in the second or third because there's so much added blood in your body. It's not accurate. Oh, wow. There is a time when you need to get this, which is why I've been like shouting from the rooftops for everyone to change

this. And so if you were to get this test, you would be a number on a scale. So like, for instance, mine was 26. That means I need to take the Lovenox shots if I want to have a baby who's alive. But if I was like 11 and it was on the low side, I would love for the doctor to say, hey, you have a couple antibodies in your blood that could result in a blood clot. Do you want to take baby aspirin to be safe? That may or may not result in a baby who's alive versus a baby who is dead. I can't wrap my head around that. Like I have really, really tried. But I also understand that the health care system is not made to take care of everybody on what ifs.

You have to be your own advocate. And honestly, what you guys are doing is teaching you that now because like you're learning so much that some women don't even know what their bodies do when they're pregnant it is a good view into all the crazy shit that happens to your body that if anything goes wrong you'll feel it or you'll learn about it or you'll ask questions about it but it's up to you because the standard is just the standard for like a group of people that I guess would be the majority, but everybody has their own issue. It's amazing you know about this because you're potentially saving yourself from any

miscarriage, maybe. I have a niece, she got pregnant before my dad had a stroke. Everything went well, thankfully, but she didn't know she had this mutation. Since I've shared about this publicly, because what I did is for a year and a half, I didn't tell anyone. And then I met with the vice president of the American College of Obstetricians. I flew to Long Island. She's like, maybe I can find you or come see you. And I was like, hi, I'm in your hometown. I was like, I'm at the hotel down the street. I was like, ready for her to be like, no. And then I was going to make a fake name, make an appointment. Erin Brockovich, energy. We love it.

I was like, I'm here. I'm ready. But the thing I said, I was like, I'm a songwriter. I am not a doctor. I do not pretend to be a doctor. I'm just so passionate about this issue because it's what I went through. And all I want to do in Rosie's honor is save women, families and babies. I haven't met one human who's against what I I want to do in Rosie's honor is save women, families and babies. I haven't met

one human who's against what I'm trying to do. I was like, so you guys got to get on board, please and update this just update the protocol. That's it. I'm sure other people would love to ask and don't have the platform. You took me seriously because I was on the Today Show this morning. And that's why you're meeting with me like I am here as a representative of every single woman who has gone through this and who wishes they could help other women. Here's all my research. I'm out. I can't do any more from here. She was so amazing. She was instantly an ally. She's like, this is actually what ACOG does. We are constantly fighting for women and for education. She's like, would you be willing to speak and go around and teach women and educate

them? I'm like, absolutely. I'm so fucking chatty. I was like, just put me on a stage. I'm happy to help, but I'm also happy to bail out. Like, I don't want to get in the way of what this is. So she was like, I'm going to take this to the board. Now the board happened to be a bunch of dudes. She was the vice president, which is why I went to her because she was a her. So The board is full of dudes, even though it's for... Let's just notice it. It's all men. So interestingly enough, she's on board instantly.

And then all the men said no. And so they put me in a pile. Imagine if the genders were reversed for one moment. Imagine the head of men's health or prostate or penis health or whatever the hell it would be called. It's all women. And then there's one dude who knows this like very important information about his own body. And then all the women say, no, that's not really important.

It would never happen. Women would hear it and be like, okay. Don't worry in the story. I didn't give up. This was December of last year. And so I heard that it wasn't looking good or whatever. And I said, okay, well, I did everything correctly. What I thought was really gentle, really nice. But now I'm going to tell the whole world.

And I gave you a chance to change it before I tell everyone. But I'm not going to stop. I've literally nothing to lose. I don't care if this takes till I'm 80. So I went to People Magazine. It was funny. My team was like, we want to go to women's health. And I was like, no, I don't want healthy people. I want all people. I want everyone in the grocery store. So I went to People. We did a whole two-page expose on it. They were so into it. The woman who interviewed me had three kids. Everyone I talked to is passionate about it. I haven't met one person. So these imaginary board of men, I don't know who they really are. But I also realized that I can

go around them right now and grassroots style, just word of mouth, which is what women are so good at. So when I did People Magazine, GMA called me immediately. I went on GMA that next day, told everyone, today's show. Literally, I'm doing what I said I would have done. If nobody listens to me, I'm just going to get loud. Yeah. So then I got really loud and thousands and thousands of people have written to me already on social media or in real life. I have so many friends who've asked for the test. People have written me that they've discovered they have this before they lost a baby. So many women have written to me that they've lost four or five babies and found out and

wish they could have told everyone. So I feel really like I'm doing the right thing. Yes. And even if we save five babies in Rosie's name, it's happening. It's just going to take a while because now obviously ACOG, I've got their attention again. So I'm back in it with them. I'm back in it with the Fetal Medicine Institute. I have a new research team that's helping me, a new doctor that I'm working with in New York. I am going and doing all the things that I possibly can. And it's going to happen. I'm going to change it. But until I do, the most important thing in the world is to just share verbally, spread the word about it and have women ask their doctors. And the best part is they can't say no, because then they're liable.

If they do say no, and then something happens, then it's their fault. It's malpractice. Oh, that's good to know. A hundred percent. You got to ask for it. And I have had friends ask for it and the doctors say no. They're like, you don't have it in your family history. Like you don't need it. You're only 25. Why are they so stingy on this test? Is it like $7,000? No, it's free. It's literally one blood clot.

I can't. This is. I know. Sometimes when I go, like I just met with this doctor who's like the president of Senior Sinai and I'm like sitting in a lapan with her in New York and I'm like sweating and I'm talking to her and then like I got in the car and like my imposter syndrome is so funny because I'm just like, who am I? And this woman's like, I love this idea.

We're going to do this and I have this. And I'm just like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I love that I'm a musician and a songwriter and all that is very cool. And I am grateful for that. But like, I really feel like I'm supposed to be doing this. It seems like such a niche thing, but I think truthfully, and this is a little bit of a conspiracy, but whatever, it's what I think. I think our environment, our soil, our water, our air, I think something's going on and more women are having stillborn babies and more people are getting blood clots because we're dealing with so many toxins in our world that I'm going to hopefully prove that the need for the gestational diabetes test was universal because obesity became a thing.

And now I think that this blood toxicity is a thing that is going to be a risk for all women our age and younger. Well, it's already a thing. If it's 55% of miscarriages, that is a thing. Of multiple miscarriages. Yes. What you're saying, by the way, it's not a conspiracy. We ingest the equivalent of a credit card in plastic a week. That's the average. The world is changing. There's more chemicals. I mean, men's sperm count is going down for many reasons.

And a lot of people are saying it's a lot of the environment. But I know what you mean. You don't want to turn someone's ears off. No. We in L.A., I feel like are so aware of this or people our age are so aware of this. But people shut down if you start blaming their lifestyle. Yes. So I certainly have to be careful what I talk about.

And the other thing is there's been a lot of other people or issues or nonprofits or just groups of women that want to partner with me and fight for women's health. And I'm like, I don't want to get involved in anything that's bipartisan. You have to be tactical about it. Yeah. My ask is so simple. Please add this blood test to the first trimester and let's start there. I still just really want that to be the only thing that women don't have to ask their doctors

for this test that just is the standard. And that's like my bare minimum ask. So I'm trying to stay really intentional and really simple about that. But while I'm asking for that, I just can't not notice all these things that are coming up and being really obvious to me. I just think there's so many things we're going to discover. I don't know how I found myself in this position, but here I am. And I just feel like it's what I'm supposed to do right now. And I just feel oddly grateful that I get to put such a giant purpose to Rosie's tiny life.

I did go through this awful thing and my family did. And I don't know, I feel like this is supposed to be something that changes. And like, I feel so, so, so strongly about it. You said, I was like, who am I? I mean, I think the answer is you're a mom. This is what moms do. They take care of those around them who need help and nurturing. That is what you're doing. It's so incredible. I'm

so grateful we had you and we can talk about this and it affects literally Liz. It's amazing. Like there's three people talking and two of you out of three, maybe me. I haven't been tested either. There you go. It's a real thing. I'm so grateful that you asked me to be on this because word of mouth is what we're so fucking good at. I mean, that is what especially moms and grandmothers and aunts and friends and anyone who wants to have a baby knows someone who has a baby who's going to get pregnant, who is pregnant. I mean, it's everyone. But that's how women survive. Fight or flight, we think, is this universal response to stress. But it's actually for women, it's tend and befriend. That's how women survive. Fight or flight, we think, is this universal response to stress. But it's actually, for women, it's tend and befriend. That's how women have survived throughout history.

I love that. By creating community and then literally surviving through knowing each other and transmitted communication through each other. So this is how you survived your immense amount of trauma that you've gone through. But this is also how you're helping other women survive as well. It's incredible. Thank you. But this is also how you're helping other women survive as well.

It's incredible. Thank you. The happy ending, or at least I should just say one day at a time, is that I am pregnant right now. I'm taking Lovenox shots every day. I'm seven months pregnant. I'm in my third trimester. So far, no complications. I don't know what's going to happen.

Obviously, my husband and I think all the things all the time. We just like make room for every feeling ever but I really hope what gets to happen too is that at the end of this there's a baby who is healthy and I can continue to share the story I remember even like saying to my record label or my managers it's a story of hope of course it's a story of pain of course it's a story of grief like how the fuck do you get to hope without any of that? You can't. Even what you're saying, like what we started talking about in the very beginning, like your village, it's the who is around you? Who are you allowing to help you and love you and then leaning into your strength as a woman fighting for what you believe in? Everyone was telling me I was fine. I'm like, No, I'm not fine. Like, I know I'm not fine. There's so many interesting layers of this story. But it just so far is a hopeful one, which is so crazy to think that like, that's where we started. And you know, where we're at right now. Yeah, I'm grateful I get

to share that story. Thank you so much for chatting with us. Thank you. I feel like we can talk forever. I know. Well, it's so good to meet you guys. Thank you again for asking me to do this and just, you know, get to be able to share my story with you guys and all your listeners. Well, you are so vulnerable

and brave and helping so many people. I can only hope that this conversation will also help people and help spread the word. If you're listening, get tested.

Tell everyone you know. So good to meet you guys. Thank you. You too. Have a you know. So good to meet you guys. Thank you. You too. Have a good day. Okay, bye. Thank you so much for being here. And thank you listeners for tuning in.

Check back in next week for more of this journey. you