Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Race to 35: Day 7 + Dana

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

Liz and Monica are “feeling superior to men today" in episode 7 (of 10) of Race to 35. The two talk about their fears of being needy and question what it would look like to build a non-traditional family. They chat with a choice mom, Dana, who has a two year old son via IUI and donor. She talks the women through the process of picking a donor and the highs and lows of having a child without a partner. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nobody, nobody loses. Nobody, nobody loses. This body is a shoe. This body is a shoe. You're wearing a headband today. I am. It's very cute. I'm kind of dressing more like a person. You're in real clothes. I regressed today.

It's okay. I mean, I regressed yesterday. Can you wear waistbands? We're not wearing, you know, big plastic bags. But, like, anything that, like, goes around my waist, I feel it. I know. I want it to be loose. I know.

It is tender. It's literally bruised. I know. I want it to be loose. I know it is tender. It's literally bruised. It is. And stuff's growing in there. And you've been bloody. It's gross. Yeah. It's not gross. It's one or two little drops. I know. It's kind of cool. I think it's a badass. I think it's weird because I didn't have any blood at first. That seems like when the blood would happen. And now. It's true. I have so much blood.

Do you feel like a badass yet? Because I'm feeling superior to men today. I love this. I don't tend to feel that way. But I do now feel, you know, when people say, you know, women are the superior gender. I still feel like that creates a hierarchy. And today I'm like, I think we're a little more impressive. I don't know if we're better, but our bodies are impressive. Growing, harvesting. We are farmers. Yeah, we're really

farmers. Okay. We both had appointments this morning. Everything looks normal for me. Everything's growing. And I think because some of the little guys are still growing, they've added a day of shots for me. So today was supposed to be the last day besides trigger. Okay. But now I have Thursday. I also have to do regular shots. Okay. We're so synced because that's what I have to do too.

And they were like, we're probably going to do the trigger shot on Friday. Same. Same. They were going to see the results, but they were like, that's what I think the doctor's going to do. Because my doctor's in Paris. She's having cheesecake. Vacay? Yeah. Oh, lucky her.

Do you know that we're living in my dad's sim? Do you even know that? No. Oh, I'm so sorry. I should have told you from the beginning. In your dad? We're living in my dad's simulation. We all are.

The whole world is. Everyone is. Okay. And his, like, body is in India somewhere in a lab. And he paid a lot for the daughter package. It was really nice. Like he really splurged on the daughter package. Got it. So that I could have a really nice life. And so all of this, everything syncing up myself. That's actually my dad. Okay. Got it. That makes a lot of sense. And he's paying. And like, I think he's probably upset because they keep coming to him and they're

like, can you pay a little more? Because now they need to sync up again. They need the medicine to come today. And so I'm part of your simulation. No, no. We're part of my dad. Okay. Your dad. Right. Sorry. I'm not real either you're not real i love that perspective on armchair that's how we of course approach the world okay great it is weird like the closer people get to me the better their lives become not because that's how i feel no not that sounded disgusting and not because of me i mean having nothing to do with me it's like something good will happen to them. It's almost like the way that you're talking about that is like the way people talk about religion.

God is great and God lives through me. And that's why people are so wonderful. And yours is just like, my dad's simulation is so great. My dad's simulation lives through me. That's why your life is better. It is. Exactly. I love this. I mean, I will say of all the life is a simulation moments, maybe covering 2016 election was definitely like, are we in a simulation for sure? But the closest thing that I've experienced in a positive way is doing this. You reaching out to me. I mean, we've talked about it. It's so serendipitous.

And then our periods being synced and it working out with me being able to stay at the house while Kristen and Dax are away. Like it's too weird. It's so weird. And then FaceTim having our appointments. I mean, that is huge. That's the weirdest one of all. They're so needy. How does your dad feel about you doing this? That's a good question. I think my dad isn't thinking about it too much. He's just more like, how do you feel type thing.

I think maybe the anesthesia scares him a little, but my mom is very happy I'm doing it. They're really supportive. They've learned to not intrude. Every now and then they'll ask trepidatiously if I'm dating anyone. But I think it's funny for them because growing up, dating wasn't a thing. It wasn't like you can't date, but it didn't feel like there was an open space for dating. Me too. I had that same vibe. Yeah. Is there a part of you that still feels bad? I know they're excited, but there are part of me that's like, they're going to know I'm having sex. Right.

Yes. It still feels like a little, not transgressive, but I felt like I was doing something wrong if I had a boyfriend when I was younger. Same. And so then it's not fair that when you're then an adult, they want you to get married and have kids. It is unfair. It's like, yeah, you can't change your mind. But anyway, they're great. And at this point, they're just like, you do what you want to do.

Yeah. And we're supportive. And so it's great. Anyway, my mom is very happy I'm doing it. How do your parents feel? I think it's very similar to you, weirdly. Yeah. They aren't asking too many questions about the why.

I think they're secretly happy, but they didn't tell me they were happy. You know what I mean? Where they're like, oh, maybe it's going to happen. Yep. But we won't put any pressure, which is sweet. I mean, my parents are always a little worried about my mental health, I think. I don't live in the same country as my family. So they're very happy I'm doing it with you.

They're very happy that you're so supportive and present. And yeah, yesterday I called them and it was like a conference call, but like, how are we going to get Liz, her shots when Monica isn't here? What kind of like apps are we going to, because I have to do this blood thinner for a week. I know, but what does that mean a week? Through when? I leave Saturday.

Oh, I just also assumed that once we're done, I was like, she's going to want to have her own life. No, I can, I can do your shots. You're so sweet. I think I might be mad if you do them with somebody else. Really? Okay, that makes me want to cry in a good way. Ding, ding, ding, positive cry.

I don't know if this happens to you, and this has definitely been small T triggered in this process, which is feeling needy or feeling like you're a burden to other people is something that I hate, or like I hate being in that situation. And luckily, I've been healthy. I've been in crutches a lot, but I've been able to get around with my crutches. Oh, metaphorically. Metaphorically. So this time I feel like I don't want you to feel like you're my crutch. I don't.

But then, yeah, they were all trying to figure out different ways. Like maybe there's a nurse that lives in the neighborhood. Maybe you could put a community post. And I was like, okay, I got to go. And it's like, they're so sweet. They're so sweet. We could post it on Nextdoor. We could post it. That's what my sister would say.

My sister was like, you know, this isn't Montreal where everyone's nice. I mean, everyone is nice. Someone will show up from the RV on the street. And they're going to come in and they're going to be like, I have my own needle. Don't worry. I know. And then my parents were like, there's a safe injection site like you could go there and i was like i feel like i'm the opposite demo don't do that yeah i'm gonna do them and then if there's some days because when i leave for spain if you have like another day kristen will obviously do

it or molly or amy so any of people would, Callie can come do it. There are people. Thank you. You have a support system. Thank you. Okay, so did your doctor do them today? Yes, she did it. And she said the blood thinner one is painful because the medication's painful.

So that's why I was having a tummy ache. But I think I'll get used to it too. The first one is always like the hardest. Did she still do it in your stomach today? Did it in my stomach. Yeah, yeah. My stomach. And it was. And no one will do it in my butt. No one will give me a butt injection. They won't let you. They won't let you, even though that feels like that's the best place, but it can get into your muscles. What about you? So your appointment went well. You're on track. Everything's on track. You're feeling good. And then I had therapy, which was helpful.

Yes. I had therapy on Wednesdays. It was good. You know, I talked about this with her and I had some new insights a little bit when I was talking to her. Oh my gosh, share if you want. Yes. I'm sure many people can relate to this if you're single and have been sort of perpetually single. Where you think of motherhood as a response to a relationship.

It's the next step. It's the next thing you do. First, you get in a relationship, then you get married, and then you have kids. And it's like all part of this sequential process. So I've never had to think about that because those first couple steps haven't been achieved. And if I'm being very honest, those first couple steps are too scary for me. They're scary and they're hard and they're big hurdles. And so there was no reason for me to hop to the third step because one and two are like, I've already pushed those aside. But now this whole process has been very interesting because it's taken that piece off the table. It's just, what do you want? Do you want motherhood in your life? Totally regardless of these other steps and

these other people not in a relationship, what do you feel? And I've never gone there because it hasn't felt like I could because I haven't checked the other boxes. But the truth is, you don't need those other boxes necessarily But the truth is you don't need those other boxes necessarily. And it was important for me to get in touch with these feelings of like, do I want to be a mom? Forget the other pieces. Wow. And so I had a similar thing with my therapist where I was like, oh, I'm doing this. And, you know, and then once I meet someone where it's like, or you could do a donor. And then she kind of took me down that path, I think as an exercise of what also your therapist was doing, which is making you go through the thought process

of like, I could do this. And like, I don't need another person. Do you think that her doing that made step one and two feel easier because there's not as much pressure or it didn't affect step one and two? We talked about step one and two separately. I think what was interesting is it was separate.

It was not connected to this at all. It was like, okay, now let's tackle this piece. And it's kind of interesting to decouple those two, relationship and motherhood, because it feels like it's all so intertwined. But actually in 2022, it doesn't have to be. It's not. It's very interesting to make it about you. Like, what do you want? You know? Yeah. And do you know the answer? I think the answer is yes. I do. I do think the answer is yes. You know, it's kind of a scary thing to say.

It is. Because who knows? Do you think you have some of the same issues with step one and two as with step three? Because in both cases, it is a relationship. In one case, you're like making the person you're going to have a relationship with, which gives you a little bit more control, which I love. But at the same time, no control. You have no idea who this person is going to be. And that's also actually the scariest part because you can't go on a date with your baby, a date not romantic, just so it's clear. But with a person, you can go on a few dates. You can see

how are they when things are good? How are they when things are bad? How are they when we just missed a flight? How are they when things don't go their way, right? And with a baby, you don't know that. But I think that I have a lot of reservations around motherhood because of the same reasons why sometimes relationships have been hard for me which is sometimes I don't feel like I'll live up to what that person needs from me and I feel that way definitely with motherhood and I think sometimes it also gets me into issues even with friendships just relationships in general and then a little bit like you I'll avoid or kind of be like oh oh, well then I won't even do it. I won't even talk to the person. And motherhood maybe has been also that too of like, I just won't do it in case I fuck it up. It all just speaks to our own insecurities. It's whatever our deepest insecurities are,

just like resonated. Exactly. They get amplified times 10 or times a million. Times a million. times the scent to Morgan. Yes, definitely. A word we know now, but we don't understand still. We don't really know. I've heard a lot of parents say that having babies doesn't resolve any of your issues. A lot of couples fall into that of like, then our life is going to fall in together. Oh my God. No, literally the opposite. It's the opposite. And it will reveal who you are even more, which is so scary. But at the same time, I also feel like we're both perfectionists and we want to do things the best way possible or else we freak out or don't do it at all or whatever. Then I think about people who, oops, had a baby or didn't really plan it with this person this way. And they're amazing and they made it work. And yeah, not every day is the best, but same with me. I feel like I'm comparing this to a baseline of I feel great when my baseline is some days I feel fluky and funky and weird and irritated. Today I feel seven out of 10. I feel like a lot of days I feel seven out of 10, even if I'm not tuning up hormones. Anyway, do you think

it's also a little bit of perfectionism, right? Like if we lowered our expectation of ourselves as mothers, do you think that we would be more wholeheartedly embracing of it as a choice that we want to make? I don't know why this is, but when I think about being a mom, I don't feel insecure about that. It's potentially because I have so many kids in my life. Obviously, it's not the same as parenting a kid, but I have experienced true joy and real love, like the kind that feels out

of body. And knowing that they're not even mine, and if I had one, it would be even more than that. Like when I think about Delta, I don't even know how to explain it. Saying I love her so much isn't accurate. I really am invested in her future and who she is. And I'm proud of her. Like all of these really deep emotions. And she's not mine. And so when I think about mine, like, oh my God, even more than that,

which feels impossible. But so I don't feel insecure. I feel like I could do it. You know what I feel? Is it fair? If I do this by myself, let's say, is it fair to the child I'm making? And we're going to get into this a little later in the podcast. We're going to talk to somebody who's done this. And I'm curious about this. There's a piece of me, and I'm sure it's because I came from a two-parent household. And also that two-parent household was dysfunctional many times. Don't get me wrong. I'm nervous that am I doing them a disservice by it only being me and like it not having another person to counter me or to bring something else to the table. That's the part that scares me.

It's like, I know I could do it, but is it bad for the child to only, you know? I mean, I understand and want to validate that. I totally get why you feel that. I also could not disagree more. I won't name any names, but I've seen a lot of two-parent households screw up their child and one of the parents screw up the child. There's so many people that I know that are in my life and children that I love that are from those people that I'm like, if she had just, you would be, and again, they've made it work and it's great.

And when there is a dad or again, another parent around, you honor that and all that stuff. But remember our guest about the family loss of all those people being involved in the court? Like it's a lot. My fear is actually the revert. I mean, I do feel like I would need a lot of help because I get overwhelmed, as you can tell. And that's my worry. Like I'm literally going to kill the child. You won't. You know, I'll make a mistake and it'll be over. I'll like light the

house on fire. You'll do a TikTok. I'll do a TikTok and then they're going to be, yeah. It's funny, but I had a dream that I had Mila, my niece, in a, you know, what's that? A baby. Like a baby Bjorn. Baby Bjorn. On a yacht with Ellen DeGeneres. Oh my. Yeah. Fancy. A few years ago. And Ellen DeGeneres is on his side and I was like oh my god that's so cool I'm gonna have fun and then all of a sudden I look down and Mila is no longer in the Bjorn she's lost at sea and I will cry talking about this dream and it was just a dream so yeah I have those fears my fear because I've seen so many particularly women in my entourage who have accidentally had a baby with a partner or on purpose with a partner who is a

nightmare. So my fear is to have a baby with the wrong person. And then I've brought that person to that. So when I see you talking about it, I'm like, you're amazing. If you bring a child into the world, I can't think of a more amazing, formidable, wonderful mother. And for you to do it alone in a way can be better than you doing it with a partner. Because again, you can't control what the partner does. You can control what you do and who you are to a certain extent. But it's all about also life experience, right? Because I've been intimately involved with friends or people who have been like, wow, that's really rough. That's a lot to deal with. In addition to raising a child,

in a way, if you're able to like take that person out of the equation, it can be easier. That's a very interesting perspective. Now I'm going to be stressed out. No, it's because I already live in that, right? I live my life like that. I don't want to have a partner who sucks. My standards are already through the fucking roof on that, like way too high. So that I kind of feel like if I find that person, they're going to be great for the kid. And that's all messed up too. No one's perfect. Everyone's bringing a set of strengths and weaknesses to the table and your kid is going to absorb all of those things.

You're going to screw them up. And that's the point. That's kind of what parenting is, you know? It is the point. And I think about my parents and my mom, and I get a lot of comfort because my mom is an incredible mom. I'm so grateful for her. I feel like I've won the jackpot. I would not want anything else. And she was not perfect.

Yeah. I feel the exact same way. And for all the things that she did wrong or mistakes or whatever, you're like, if I had to deal with what she dealt with, she is twice or three times the resilience that I have. Right. And hopefully our daughters or sons or whatever the fuck they want to be, they will feel the same way about us. Yes. You know, sons or whatever the fuck they want to be, they will feel the same way about us. Yes. You know, and that's kind of beautiful.

Yeah. I hope it can give people some breathing room. When you think of your parents and recognizing their faults and the things that weren't great, but also all the things that were so great. And if you're happy with who you are generally, they did a great job. Ultimately, they did a great job. And, they did a great job. And perfection isn't a part of the equation. Let's be honest, the perfect parents, the perfect moms, you know, who were like, Rice Krispie Squares, like nice little hair. That was not my mom. And I remember yearning for that. And sometimes I still, even as a 35-year-old adult, I'll see a mom like that. And I'll be like, oh, and then you find out, damn, I'm glad I got my childhood because that comes with a whole other set of problems. No one is perfect. No one is. There's stuff in their closets. It's just different stuff. It's just

a different mental health disorder. Choose your own adventure. Honestly, it is. And, you know, I reiterated with my therapist today because we had touched on this, I think, in the first episode. But a lot of people, not everyone, but a lot of people who go through this process are overachieving women. They're people who put so much in front of motherhood. And themselves in a way. And so it's so easy to go through this process and think of it as another goal or another achievement to accomplish and what's your number and all of that. And it's not that. It's really important to be like, it's not that. It's not that. I think it's good practice for motherhood.

Motherhood's not that either. It's true. I mean, just based on our guests coming in too, it's a really is a, not even a lottery. It's just like, what did I, crapshoot, haunted house. Like you just don't, okay, let's roll a coaster. Right. And like, you don't know what's going to happen. And that's what is a good lesson. I know for me of just not thinking that I know the plan and that I need to do everything to make the plan happen. But one of the greatest, I think weirdest presidential candidates of all time, Marianne Williamson. I love her books. It was a funny time when she ran.

It was a goofy time in general for, I think, the world. She says, you know, when we make plans, God laughs. And whatever God is for you, obviously, the higher power, the universe, whatever. And I try and remember that, where I'm like, this has to happen.

And I'm like, LOL, you don't know. No. The thing is going to happen. The only person who knows is my dad right but when we make plans my dad laughs that's what i'm gonna be quoting to everyone with or without context whether they know you're not that's the new way i'll call marianne tell her to change it in her book, please. I actually think this is pretty apropos. So we have a really, really fun guest today. We had a really intense session last week, which was amazing.

We're so grateful to Christina. But this week we wanted to lighten it up a little bit and have some positivity and hear a positive story of someone who's gone through this exact process that we have and has come out as a choice mom. So let's jump in. We're doing it.

Yeah. Liz is always in charge of social. I love it. I try. I try. How long have you guys been doing this? We're just doing it through this process. That's it.

It's going to be a 10 episode thing. Dope. Love it. Yes. Girl power. Do it. Right? Okay.

We have Dana in the attic today. She comes to us via Callie. Shout out Callie. Callie knows everything about my life. And so she knew this was coming up. And I was like, you know, and we're trying to get some awesome guests. We want to hear real stories. And she was like, well, I think I have someone I don't know if she'll be interested, but she's awesome. She works with me. And she has this very cool story. And so we were like, yes. And I will be honest,

we've had some incredible guests. We've talked to some awesome people. But a lot of it's been fairly heavy. Dramatic. Yes. And I don't want people to leave this process and be like, this is demoralizing. Like, oh, I am not doing this. Yeah. Yeah.

So I think it's really important to hear your whole journey and experience because I feel like it's so positive. Yeah. It's a good one. Yes. Yay. We need that. Okay, so can you just like kind of jump in? Yeah, of course. It's interesting because things didn't turn out exactly the way I planned in terms of how I ended up in this process. But I think that everything is purposeful and intentional. And so I'm just really, really thankful for the journey that I've had. But yeah, a couple of years ago, I left the music industry because I was just like, this is toxic. So I jumped into the tech space for the first time. And I was like,

oh my God, work-life balance and the benefits are amazing. And what? You cover fertility journeys? I'm all in. Which, you know, shout out to companies that actually cover women's fertility journeys and men, for that matter, because a lot of companies don, because shit is going on in people's personal lives. And that could be very distracting knowing that, oh, you mean I have to save $10,000 to $15,000 or whatever I need to do in order to embark on this journey? It's very expensive. And so, you know, once I got that job and I learned that they would cover this, and this was something that I had been thinking about because I was approaching 40. And I was just like, you know what? Need to do all the things. I was working in New York City at the time. I had been in a situation ship. Oh, my God. I'm an expert. Liz literally used that word yesterday. It's the first time I've ever heard it. Are you serious? Yeah. First time I ever heard it because I'm not on TikTok. And now it's the second time, Sim.

Situationship queens. Situationships usually don't end up where you want them to end up. But listen, it's all good. But yeah, I had been in a situationship with this guy off and on when I lived in New York. And we had talked about having a child. He wanted to have a child. I wanted to have one. And then we didn't work out right. Or we were

on a break at the time. So I was like, well, let me just freeze my eggs. So I went in for the process. It was actually pretty seamless. There was the bloating and the moodiness, but all in all, you know, the doctor that I went to, he was at Weill Cornell in New York and he was fantastic. And he told me, he was like, listen, at your age, especially approaching 40, you need to just kind of bank this. Don't think of this as like a definite situation, because a lot of women, I think, go into the process thinking, okay, when I freeze my eggs, this means I definitely have security. But sometimes that's not the case either. But he said, at the very least, you have eggs of your younger self, so that if you decide like in three, four or five years, you can rely on 38 or 39 year old eggs as opposed to your 42 year old.

You know what I'm saying? And so I was just like, all right, cool, let's do it. So we did it. Everything was cool. And, you know, after it was done, I did feel a huge sense of accomplishment and relief that I had just done it. And we were able to get quite a few eggs out. I want to say they retrieved 16 or 17, but only 13 were viable. But it was pretty good. I know. Can we talk about that just for a sec? Because this is a piece that's confusing to a lot of people. So first of all, you have these

follicles and then they retrieve what they can. That doesn't mean you get all of people. So first of all, you have these follicles and then they retrieve what they can. That doesn't mean you get all of those necessarily. And then even after that, whatever they get, then some are not viable perhaps. And then you still have to fertilize them. If you're continuing on with IVF, for instance, and not all the embryos will take from there. with IVF, for instance, and not all the embryos will take from there. So that's why they really like getting as many eggs as possible because it just helps in terms of the eventual fertilization. So sometimes a lot of women, and smartly so, because I've had a few friends do this, they'll actually do a couple of cycles back to back just to bank as many as possible. And then it just works out really nicely because that way you're not doing it and then going through the process and then none of the eggs

work and then having to do it again, you can just do it back to back, you know? And so depending on whatever your jam is or whatever you're comfortable with, whatever your financial situation is. That's the thing that's so hard is like when you go into these appointments, kind of the first thing they say is like, well, you know, and people do multiple cycles. And I'm like, first of all, how? Yeah. How are they doing multiple cycles? Unless they work for a company that pays

or unless you're in a very privileged situation like I am. I feel so fucking lucky that I can even consider doing it twice. That's right. It's nuts. It's like a car. It is no joke. I read a statistic years ago that said the average American has $5,000 in their savings account. People are just running around with $30,000 in extra cash to get their eggs frozen.

Yeah. My God. It's definitely a privilege. And so you're always thankful and grateful if you can enter into that situation and actually afford it or have a company that is gracious enough to pay for. I mean, listen, it should be paid for by everyone. Let's not even get into health care in this country. Seriously, Liz is from Canada. So like they have a totally different situation. And so are you just so annoyed when you're paying? I don't I don't understand. I just fully understood what deductible was. And I still don't really understand it.

It's confusing, and it feels very cruel. Yeah. Anyway, this is not about health care, but egg freezing is not covered. Because there's universal health care, and there's also private health care. It could be us in America. We can have the same thing, but you know. Yeah. I did the thing, and then my little eggs sat there for a little while while I discovered

what I wanted to do with my career and what I wanted to do with my life, what my next step just in general was. Did it make you think about this person that you want to break with and assess the relationship in a different way because you had done this? Yes. So that happens because then you start to think, OK, I'm doing this. start to think, okay, I'm doing this. This is real. And especially when, unfortunately for me, I felt like I was under kind of like a time crunch because of my age. I wasn't in my 20s or early 30s. I really felt like I literally low-key don't have that much time, just for real. Biologically. You know what I mean? Biologically, exactly. And so I did feel this pressure to be like, okay, let me talk to him and see, are we doing this or what's up?

And so I waited for a little while because not long after I froze my eggs, the company that I was with went through an acquisition. And so then I went through a layoff. Oh, wow. And so was laid off. Oh my God. Also, were you like, thank God I got. I mean, actually, I was super, super happy. Good for you. Even though it was a blessing at the time, it just wasn't the right fit for me.

But it was a good introduction to the space. And you got some eggs. And I got some eggs, girl. Got my RSUs. Was like, thank you. Not long after that, I got the job where I am currently. But in that, that required a move from New York to Los Angeles. So there was all of this life shit happening.

And so I was like, oh my God, I just bought a house in Bushwick. Now I have to move and I have to do, you know what I mean? So for a second, I really had to table my journey for just like a year. But immediately when I settled here in L.A. in 2017, I was like, okay, I kind of got to pick this back up. Because by that time, I had turned 40. And when I had had my eggs frozen, I was 38, about to turn 39. So now I'm 40. And I'm like, okay, it's real, real now. I'm in the force. You know, and so I spoke to my doctor again, I decided to just stick with the same doctor because I had a great experience with him a

while. And so I flew back for a follow-up appointment and he was like, what do you want to do? And I was like, you know what? I think it's time. I wrote to the guy. We had a conversation about it. He told me in the midst of all of this other craziness of moving and everything that with me moving, he really didn't want to be a parent that was experiencing long distance fatherhood, which I respect. I totally get it. He wished me well. I wished him well. And so that wasn't going to happen. So now I'm in a new city. My doctor was like, try dating for a while. He was like, even though it's happening super fast and you want to do this super fast, I've seen couples where they've gotten with someone, they're married within a year, and he was like, things happen. Things do. Your eggs still look really, really good. He was like,

you look even better than what your age reflects biologically. Give yourself a year and see what's up because we're always going to encourage you to try and have a natural situation. He was like, if not, let's just do it. And I was like, all right, cool. situation. He was like, if not, let's just do it. And I was like, all right, cool. Stay tuned for more, if you dare. Race to 35 is brought to you by Parallel. Parallel is the first and only OBGYN-founded vitamin offering targeted vitamin routines specifically formulated for each unique stage of a woman's hormonal life. This is really important because as we know, your hormones change kind of drastically throughout all these processes.

So you need different targeted stuff. Like there's a egg freezing pack, which is awesome because it's specifically designed to support your body throughout the egg freezing pack, which is awesome because it's specifically designed to support your body throughout the egg freezing process. It has antioxidants, added omegas, which are really important, iron, plus a multivitamin. And it was formulated by one of the foremost experts in fertility, which is just awesome. And when we're done with the egg freezing process, I don't know about you, Monica, but I'm planning to switch to their Women's Daily Vitamin Trio, which is essentially your entire vitamin routine in one little pack that's been meticulously pieced together by Parallel's founding doctors. Each pack comes with three pills, a full spectrum multivitamin.

And even if you're not egg freezing, there's a lot of different types of packs. There's each trimester of pregnancy, a postpartum, and there's even one for PCOS. Exclusively for Race to 35 listeners, Parallel is offering 15% off your first three months of Parallel with code RACE15. Head to Parallel.co that's P-E-R-E-L-E-L dot C-O. That's dot C-O not dot com. And if you don't love it, you can cancel anytime and there's a 30-day money back guarantee. Were you like so stressed hearing that? I have like one last shot of finding the love of my life. I've been trying for 40 years and now I have a month. Well, I think he could tell that I was still like, I would like to meet someone.

You know what I mean? So I think he was more so feeding off of the energy I was giving him, you know, because everybody's different. Some people are like, fuck that shit. I just want to do it on my own. My mind is made up. But I think he could tell I was still kind of yearning for a more traditional situation. And so he was like, you know, you shouldn't do this until you're really, really right, right, right with it.

Before you embark on the fully, I'm doing this on my own journey, they have you speak with a therapist, all the things, because mentally they want to make sure you really understand what journey you're about to embark on, which is a totally different thing than just freezing your eggs. You are talking about starting a family on your own, right? And that's a different vibe. What do they talk about in therapy? What do they bring up or have you do? Yeah, mainly it's a lot of listening and answering questions, right? And also assessing where you're at in terms of comfort and peace with your decision. And so my main thing before eventually deciding I'm good with this, let's do it was how is this going to affect my child? I knew that, okay, I'm making a decision to be a choice mom. So this is a different, I'm right now making the decision

to bring this child into a different type of family and a non-traditional situation. So what does that mean? I'm so glad that they did it. And, you know, initially I went in like, yeah, I don't need therapy. You know, at first you're like, I don't need it before you go in. And then you're like, I do. I really did need to talk to someone and explore all of my thoughts and anxieties and, you know, all of the things and talk this through. And I walked away really, really at peace with it because the therapist was like, there have been several studies done on this. It's a constant discussion, a constant research topic. And she said, the reality is, whether it's unfortunate or fortunate, there are all types of different families in existence

in general, just period. Even the kids that you know now, or even adults that you know now, were all born into all types of different circumstances. Some people were born into a mom, a dad, a sister, whatever that quote unquote all American family, quote nuclear, nuclear family structure is. But I'm sure you have some friends that were born without a mom, or they were born into two parents and then the father might have left exactly and actively chose not to be a part of their child's life i don't want you to have in your head that i'm quote unquote robbing this child of a nuclear family experience because you don't know what could have happened with the guy that literally

died or you like you know there are just so many factors we don't have any control over. That's right. And by the way, that's happened to two friends of mine where they've lost a partner. One lost a partner six months after their child was born. The other just lost their partner to COVID and was pregnant with her second child. Not to get morbid or anything, but I think hearing that really made me understand, get this ideal out of your head. Because there are all types of fully functioning families where the kids turn out great and don't get too in your head about what could potentially be. And so when I walked away from that, I was really at peace with my decision and I was good with it. And I honestly didn't even wait a year because I had that talk with the doctor. And then after that conversation, I was like, let's just start looking. So I started to do some research on the different sperm banks and settled

on a smaller bank in Northern California. And then, yeah, once I decided on, which that's an interesting experience. We need all the details of this. Small versus big sperm bank? Yeah, that's an interesting... Well, because Google and YouTube are like, you can go down downward spiral. We've been actively not Googling. Yeah, I do not recommend. Just speak to people again,

like you guys are doing that have been down this journey because you could just go down a crazy spiral when you get into like the black hole of the internet. But I will say that I did start to uncover could just go down a crazy spiral when you get into like the black hole of the internet but i will say that i did start to uncover or read reports sometimes of like the larger sperm banks especially the really really large ones like the big one down here in southern california some of them have suffered from lawsuits because maybe they sent the wrong sperm or there was issues like that or there were issues of families where the kids were going

to school with one you know there were so many kids in a small area they have like half brothers and sisters around yeah like in close kind of they could be updating a half right oh god i didn't even think about that yeah and so this is based on my own shit. So please know that this is not necessarily fact. This is just what I'm reading. Because I don't want any sperm banks like trying to come for me to sue me for like libel or slander. But yeah, I was just kind of like, maybe I should go with a smaller bank. And so that was my decision. And I had done some research on the bank that I ended up going with and read some great stories and reviews of either couples or single parents. And so when you're going through, is it a book? It's not a

book. It's an internet experience, you know, so you're on the site and you're going through pages. You pay a certain amount to have access to the profiles. You can kind of put in on the side, basically what you're looking for. Would you rather someone who is a professional or they have a degree or they're a certain height? You can choose even race. They show all of that. You can't choose like penis size. No. I just want to know how detailed they get.

I just want to make sure that if I have. They don't have a little penis. I want them to come with like, you know, good genetics. It doesn't get all into that. I'm totally kidding by the way. I don't want anyone to think I care about that. You're like, I do, sexually. Everyone's great.

Everyone's great. Everyone's great. Yes, exactly. Girl, you are a trip. I just wanted to know how detailed they've done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Do they have emotional intelligence?

Can you choose their personality? You don't choose that necessarily, but what happens is based on your physical requirements, they will give you access to all the profiles and you pay a fee to like view the more detailed profiles

of the people that are left. Oh my God, I also have they keep paying. Yeah. Before you actually click to see more about an individual, you can go through like their baby pics and all of that just to see like, what did this guy look like? It's cute. They don't show you obviously for privacy reasons, teenage or adult pictures, but you

can get a sense. Oh, you don't see what they look like right now. Right. On the site that I was on, I don't know what the other experiences are, but the site that I was on, you just see them as like a toddler and below. There would be a chance of falling in love with your sperm donor.

If you could see like, it's a catalog of men and like all these different features. It's almost like a dating profile. And then you're like, Tinder, but except I'll give you my sperm. I'll give you my sperm. That should be an app.

That's the next level. Exactly. So then based on the photos, I clicked on five or six. And they're not cheap. You're paying like, I want to say 50. Just to look. Just to look because you're getting access to the interview with the individual, all of that. And that's where you get all of that wonderful information because not only do the gentlemen write an essay based on

why they chose to enter into this experience, but also the person from the bank that interviewed them gives a very, very detailed description of them. This person had a beautiful smile. They have beautiful curly hair. They wore a red cashmere sweater. They were very well-dressed, very personable, great wit and sense of humor, very eloquent. It's interesting because it depends on who's interviewing. Everything's kind of subjective in life. I mean, it could be Ted Bundy, who is like a very eloquent serial killer. But they do give you some sort of insight into their charm, their wit, their vibe, their swag, their intelligence, all of those things, what's important to them. And I thought that was really, really, really helpful.

And honestly, that ended up being the decider, ultimately, when it came down to the final three donors that I was deciding to go with. Because initially, I wanted to go with one gentleman just based off of his characteristics in his baby pictures, but then he really didn't write much in his essay. And I saw that initially he had chosen, and this is another fun fact, and this is something my doctor told me as well, is this particular sperm bank is a bank where the child has access to reach out to the father once they turn 18. My doctor, before I embarked on this process, told me that you want to ideally go with a bank that offers you that. He was like, I've been doing this for many, many years. Anytime a woman has gone with a bank where the child did not have access, they have always deeply,

deeply, deeply regretted it because they always want, in some sense, whether when the child gets older and starts asking whatever it is, they always want to make sure that door is open for the child to forge a relationship if the father or the donor is open to that connection. Because it's an identity. That's right. That's right. Yeah, that's right. And so what turned me off of one of the donors was the fact that initially he, in his interview,

said he didn't want the child. And then they had scratched it out and they said he changed his mind. And I was like, oh, wait, what? They let that in? So he's on the fence. Right. I was like, so if you aren't clear or sure, that kind of scares me a little bit.

And by the way, listen, you never know what could happen at 18 anyway with anyone. But to me, that was a little bit of a red flag. So the person that I ended up going with, I just loved his profile. I loved what he had to say. His essay was really, really long and in-depth and wonderfully spiritual.

And his story was really great. And he in-depth and wonderfully spiritual. And his story was really great. And he was from Columbia and he had this rich culture and family experience and spoke at length about his family's journey from Columbia to here. And he was a professor in science and PhD, you know what I mean? And he was just speaking on why this was important for him to give back from a scientific standpoint. Like it was very, very like detailed. And I just loved what he had to say. And so then, yeah, that was it. I decided on him.

They ship the frozen situation to your doctor. What is that day like when you're like, okay, it's him. Even now I have his photos on my desktop of my computer. Because as my son, his name is Dino, as he gets older, I just am always looking at the photos to compare. Because I'm just like, oh my God, he has his eyes. Just seeing those little similarities, especially as a baby and a toddler. Because those are the pictures that I have. And so it's really interesting

to see just the genetics do their thing. And it's so interesting because you would think for a sperm donor versus a life partner. With a life partner, you want to be attracted to them and them being attractive is great, but you're looking for their characteristics, why they're in this with you. And it seems like with the sperm donor, you would think, oh, just look at the physical things because that's what really you're getting out of this, right? But it seems like the why and who they are as a person mattered even more or just as much. It did. And I'm so glad that you touched on that because I do think for everyone it's different. Some people, they're just like, he's hot, just give me the sperm. Or he looks like he was an attractive or gorgeous child. So I'm sure he grew into a gorgeous adult.

So like he has great DNA. Let's book it. That's what I would assume is most important because I also didn't know you had access to their essay and like why they're doing it. And see, it was important to me again that my son had the opportunity to reach out to his father at 18. And so just getting a little bit of insight

as to his spirit and who he is as an individual was important to me for that reason. I think if it was closed and I was like, no, I don't want him to have the option, I probably wouldn't have cared as much. I assume there's a whole genetic profile. Yeah, they go through not only their full genetic profile, but also family members. Does anyone in your family have any defects or cancers? And I believe, if I'm not mistaken, they have to actually

present all of these medical records and evidence highlighting that it isn't something that is taken lightly. It is a very detailed and very thorough experience. And so I knew certain things because my doctor was like, okay, now looking at this, if you have signs of this, or you have history of this, you actually should not be with this guy because then this sort of birth defect could be evident. All of that is present. Absolutely. What were you specifically looking for? Did you have specifics that you knew going in like, I want this, this and this? Initially, I will say I was thinking that it could be really good just from a personal perspective to have a Black donor

or someone that maybe was, you know, multiracial, just from a cultural perspective, that was important to me. But again, when I saw the gentleman who I chose and saw how deeply invested and rooted and passionate he was about his culture. Something about that really spoke to me as well. And so there was an openness in me to explore people of different backgrounds and cultures. Interestingly enough, also the gentleman that I was initially choosing was Black, you know, the one who had changed his mind. I was like, shit, you know, I really like this guy's pictures. And, you know, I like their description of him. Also, a turnoff, though, was that he didn't really have much to say in his essay.

Right. And I was kind of like, OK, you know, I'm such a Libra and I'm so romantic. And like, you know, like you can woo me with your words. When I read that extensive essay from the donor that I chose, I just loved it. I love that because it applies to relationships in general. It's like we all are as single people walking through the world with an idea of what we want, what we think. I want them to be smart. I want them to be tall. I want them to, you know, all these things. And then you meet a person. That's right. And it's like, oh, no, that spirit

is what I need. That's it. Even in dating, as I've gotten older, my list, quote unquote, has gotten much shorter. Not in the sense that I'm not still looking for someone that like shares my ideals or has a certain moral compass and all of those things that are deeply important to me. But you just start to realize this shit really doesn't fucking matter. Yes. You know what i mean if i meet like the guy who i really want to sit still with for a while and he's 5 10 or 5 8 like what the fuck am i really about to throw this away because he's a little bit shorter or because he has a different background or anything like that like that's crazy yeah you know and more people should be more open to that and i'm glad that that spirit of openness was in me, even in this.

This experience can force you to have to open your mind a little bit. That's right. Has it changed dating? How has it changed dating for you? Well, you know, it's interesting because I really am just now in a place where I'm open to dating. Well, Dino is two, right? Yeah, he's two. And so the first year, first of all, we were in the middle of the pandemic. I mean, not even the middle. We were at the very top of the pandemic. Dino was essentially a pandemic baby because he was born at the end

of January 2020. And so sister wasn't dating then. No one was. No one one was exactly. I was pretty much in the house. Cool thing about that was my parents, my brothers, all of us decided to quarantine that first year actually together. So he had a full on full tribe family experience his first year of life. And then, yeah, since I've been back, just all the self-esteem stuff, like I felt like I needed to lose all my baby weight and wasn't feeling secure. And just all those things that are just fucking with you in your head you have a baby and I have a baby you're going through all the postpartum things it's just a lot and so I just kind of needed to wait until I got into a space where I really felt secure and just kind of ready yeah just kind of be back out there but it is interesting to your point, getting back out there. It's a very new thing for me. It does change the who, because before I think I was

kind of a little bit more down to see a red flag and be like, oh, but it could be fun. Maybe it won't be like this with me. Now it's just kind of like, uh-uh, nope. There's somebody else that's way more important in the mix. I am not bringing that home. I have no tolerance for any sort of toxicity. No games, you know, anything like that. Just my tolerance level. It's just shifted dramatically. And so it's like, really, if you're not going to be additive to my life by extension, his life as well, then there's no point. Or it's just like, you're just fun for the moment, but you're never meeting him. And it's never that onward. I mean, it's what's beautiful about this whole process and everything is you don't

need a man. It's only going to benefit you if it's additive. It's so, so real. And it makes you very, very very aware of past behaviors how you played into toxic relationships in the past it makes you very aware of your own red flags and your own shit what are yours i just feel like especially because of the industry i was in i just had a lot more tolerance for bullshit now it's just kind of like oh no you're not texting back or you're doing the dance uh-uh don't have time no time yeah whereas before that chase was still like oh but he's hot now it's just like it's not attractive to you it's also just getting older too yes you just start to reach an age where you're like really yeah you respect yourself so much more look at what you've done that's right at this point now

i've bought a house in LA. I have a job at a great tech company. You know, it's just kind of like, I'm a prize. Yes. So you have to show up too, bro. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, you don't get to like half-ass either.

And by the way, I understand that this is a collaborative process. I'm not looking for this perfect person. I know that I come with my shit too, but I just think if I'm going to be a partner with someone, you have to meet me in the middle. We have to like be great together and we have to really be invested in one another and in this family.

And if I feel like that spirit or that energy isn't there, if you're half interested, half not, then what am I doing? That's energy I'm spending on a partner that I could be pouring fully 100% into my son. Have you talked to him about it? Or have you thought about how you're going to? So let me go back just really quickly, because I want to finish after I chose the donor and all of that. Because I do think this is important, because there are all different experiences and different ways to bring a child into this world. And so once I decided on the sperm, it was sent to my doctor

in New York. I'd been going through the acupuncture, getting my diet together, all the things just to make sure that my body was ready, right? I'd already done the therapy, making sure mentally I was ready, but I wanted to make sure that I was also prepared physically. Went to New York, made the commitment to stay there for a couple of weeks so that I could also prepared physically. Went to New York, made the commitment to stay there for a couple of weeks so that I could get impregnated and then stay there for a while and not be traveling. Went to go see him. And when he did the ultrasound, my doctor was just like, you know what? I want to pivot for just a second. And I was like, okay. And he was just like, instead of doing IVF, again, you still look really good. He was like, do you want to try IUI

first? You have to time everything and make sure you're on your cycle and all this kind of stuff. And IUI is, for those who don't know? Basically, you're doing a straight insemination. It's not using the eggs. You're using the egg that is currently in your body right now. And so he was like, let's just see if we can try this. And then if it doesn't work. And I was like, I just spent all this money to come here. Oh, my God. He was like, let's just try it. And I was like, OK, let's do it. And so we did it.

And obviously, during this whole process, you're going in every day, going in every day. They time when to put the semen in. They do all of that. Then they continue to watch you, watch you, watch you and just see how everything's progressing. Immediately following the insemination, I went to go get acupuncture again from a great fertility acupuncturist in New York. And then I just like chill for like another couple of weeks, didn't get on a plane, was just working from New York. Then I flew home and I got pregnant with my son the first time. Wow.

Via IUI. Yeah. So you didn't use your eggs?'t even use my eggs they're still frozen oh my god they're still there yeah they're still they're on the market 38 years old oh my god were you so anxious during those weeks when you were like waiting what i mean yeah oh my god and you know it was interesting because I knew when my period was supposed to start and then it didn't. And then a couple of days later, it didn't. And I was like, okay, let me just wait one more day.

And then it didn't. Then I went and got a pregnancy test. I got a bunch of them actually. I think I got like four or five and I did the pregnancy test. All five. Oh my God. All five. Who did you tell who's the first

person you told the first person i called was my parents yeah my mom and dad and i started bawling on the phone and then i went and got a pregnancy test from my doctor here in la and then yeah they called me back and they were just like this test indicates that you are pregnant congratulations oh yeah speaking of your parents, how was that? They were so excited. Good. They were very excited. You know what?

Not everyone in my, I'm glad you touched on that because not everyone in my family was. I come from a very traditional black family and no one has embarked on this journey. Some people are a lot more

conservative and religious and, you know, all of the things and the more conservative arm of my family, it took them a second. But my parents, which, I mean, you know, all of the things. And the more conservative arm of my family, it took them a second. But my parents, which, I mean, low-key, that's all I really gave a shit about.

To be honest, even if they weren't receptive, I would have still been like, I love you, doing it anyway. Yeah, it's your body. But my parents were super excited. That's awesome. And once I told them, they were just like through the roof.

I mean, Dino is their only grandchild. And so, you know, my brothers haven't had kids yet, which I don't know how they've swung that so far. The way they move out there. Love you, Sean and Ryan. That's awesome. Yeah, I do think that it's all still in the grand scheme pretty new. It's part of why we're doing this show, exposing all of this stuff. There's so many ways to make a family.

And there's a stigma. There is. There really is a stigma. And I know there are people in my family, if I choose to go that route, that it will be the same. It'll be like, really? Right. What are you doing? Yeah.

And you're kind of taking yourself out of the market. But actually, you're really not. Honestly, I've been very, very open with my experience. And I cannot tell you, A, how many women, I have a call tomorrow with someone that called me and was just like, can I just talk to you? I'm thinking about doing this. How many professional women especially have reached out to me just to hear my story and how empowered they are from just hearing me talk about it.

We just need to talk about it. There's a coworker of mine just did the same exact thing. She's currently pregnant and about to give birth with her child. And then like the guys too, you think that just the women are going to be like, yay. And that the guys are going to be like, oh shit. But like a lot of guys hit me and they were just like, I'm so proud of you. That's so dope. And with dating, they're just like, well, we don't have to worry about a baby's father. So like, I don't have an issue with this. That's a really good point. Yeah. I don't have to deal with some other guy in the space.

So oddly enough, in a weird way, it really hasn't been an issue. Yeah. Amazing. Because, yeah, I just think there's all these stereotypes about women, even with egg freezing. I felt it. You know, I shared with Monica that I waited a long time and even got to a point where I needed to be convinced by my friend Chelsea to finally do it because I associated freezing my eggs with failing as a woman, that like no one wants me or I'm alone

or I haven't succeeded. You know, I think the same thing applies for a lot of women who are listening maybe to us right now who want to go down your path, but also feel like, does that mean no one picked me? Did you battle any of those stereotypes? Or what's your advice to a woman out there who wants to do it, but isn't sure she can? Yeah.

I mean, I didn't feel that way, to be honest, because I knew that part of the reason why I was single, to be super, super honest, some of it was me. Same. You know what I mean?

So the thought that you're not picked shouldn't even. Yeah. Very problematic. Please don't do that to yourself. Just in general. It's easy to slip into that because I'm the exact same. I've been single my whole life, essentially. And it is me.

But it's me. And I have a very problematic, vestigial feeling of no one's picking me. And it's patriarchal dude we love single men we love older single bachelors that's right and older single women totally come on right no there's such a stigma but i've had so many friends that have found love later in life i just had a really good friend get married for the first time at 50 you know what i mean and is in the best relationship they travel all the time you know and i'm not saying that necessarily that's even what you want to do, but I just think there are all types of situations and relationships and love comes in all forms and in all ages. The only thing I felt

like a pressure for honestly was having kids, not to necessarily find love. I had found love before for whatever reason, it didn't work out. I found it a couple of times, shit, you know what I mean? And it didn't work out. And so I just kind of feel like, you know, my person just hasn't found me yet. But I'm not going to stop my train and my goals and what I want to do out of life because of that. I was like, I'm not going to not have a family because of a man. Yes. Good. That was my whole thing. Yeah. I know what I want. Again, I've seen so many of my friends who are single parents, whether they were widowed, unfortunately, or because of a choice made that found love again. Yeah. With children. Yes. Children. Yes. It's still out there for me.

It's still possible. And I really tried hard not to get into that space because I know what I can bring to the table in terms of a relationship. And I needed to do a little bit of work on myself and some soul searching myself as to what I was investing in prior to even getting pregnant. You know, some of those guys weren't worth the investment. And I shouldn't have invested as much. In a weird way, it kind of like gave me the shake up that I also needed in terms of what I need to look for in a partner as well. And it's not just that you're investing into someone who's not worth it. It can affect you and it can make you less better off to be with someone who you're not right for. Oh my God. Yes. I didn't want that either. I do think we have to sort of decouple, and I talked to my therapist about this, decouple motherhood from a relationship.

Like we think the barrier of entry to motherhood is the relationship first. And it's not. It's not necessarily. Listen, would I have liked that? Sure. Yeah. And that's okay to say too. That's right. But it just didn't come to me yet. It didn't find me yet. But I wasn't going to then sacrifice having children, which was very important to me because of it didn't find me yet. But I wasn't going to then sacrifice having children, which was very important to me because of it. I don't know. I'm not worried about it. I'm not stressed about it. I know that it's out there. I'm not even fronting. I'm really being honest. It's there. Okay. So talking to Dino about this. Yes. Have you thought about it? I just kind of

was like, you know what? I'm just going gonna have the conversation with him when the mood strikes. I have already said things to him, though, full transparency, because he'll see other kids with daddies. Yeah, you know, and some kids don't have daddies. And he'll just say things like whatever his friend's name is, Daddy. The other day, I think we were watching Cocomelon or something, you know, and he was just like, that's a daddy. And I said, yes, that is a daddy. I was like, you have a mommy and you have a poppy and a yaya, which are his grandparents. I was like, you don't have a daddy, but you have a mommy. And he's like, no daddy, but I have mommy. You know what I mean? I was like, yeah. So just little things like that where I'm saying these

things to him now. Yeah, good. I've heard of shit where people hide it and try to like come up with stories. I feel like people always find out stuff like that. And it makes them feel like there's something about their identity to hide. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to do that to him. I'm honest. And I know he obviously doesn't grasp it now, but I do want him to understand the idea that he's in a family where he has a mommy and grandparents and uncles and aunts and lots of cousins. And again, we have a huge family and a

huge tribe, but he doesn't have this one part that maybe other families do. That's awesome. Oh my gosh. Well, we have to let you go. We could talk to you for so much longer. Thanks for having me. It's been so great. And I know it will help so many people hearing this story. Yeah, no one's talking about it. And if it doesn't, if this entire approach isn't for you, then it isn't for you. And that's okay, too. Like, you can listen to this whole podcast and be like, I still don't want to do that. Hard no.

You know what I mean? Cool. But for anyone that's on the fence or is kind of thinking about it, I do your point hope that it gives them some inspiration and some strength yes and knowing that there is a real community of choice moms and people out there and honestly choice dads i have a friend of mine right now that's about to embark with a surrogate to have his children and he would be a single dad yeah dax says that all the time he says he knew always always. He's like, I'm having kids. Like, that's for sure. And if I don't have the right person, I'm having them. Like, I am figuring out how to have them.

That's right. So I love that. There are all types of families. And it's a beautiful thing. And the more we embrace that, the more confident people will have. And also that confidence kind of bleeds into your children, too. Of course. They grow up not thinking something's wrong with me.

They're like, I'm just part of a different type of family. Exactly. And it's all good. I love that. Thank you so much for chatting. That made me feel really helpful and hopeful. What did it make you feel? I feel like there's a pre-Dana Lizbrain

and there's a post-Dana Lizbrain. Yeah. Like this opened my eyes to a whole new possibility. I mean, I knew it existed, but I didn't think it could exist for me and now it's an option. Yes, same. Oh, so exciting. We are

very thankful to Dana for that. And we're going to continue on. We're in like second half. We are approaching the finish line here. Home stretch. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

Oh, boy. All right, guys. So we'll see you next week. See you. Bye. Bye. Bye.