Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Race to 35: Day 8 + Chelsea Handler

Episode Date: November 30, 2022

Liz and Monica declare their sisterhood in episode 8 (of 10) of Race to 35. The two discuss how pain is passed down, Monica cries over Delta, and they talk about how this experience is affecting the way they view their parents. In the second half of the episode, they discuss the choice to not have kids with Chelsea Handler. They talk about the value of being able to give globally instead of insularly, Chelsea shares the story of when she realized she didn't want kids, and she reinforces the idea that one can have a full life without children. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I should have asked Christina about this blood thinner. Because I literally feel it in my back. Ask her. I could just Google it, but. Ow. This would just happen. My phone hitting my foot hurt more than the shots. What are you talking about?

We need to just do a podcast about that. What is painful to you? Yes. I mean, I don't love going on first dates, but to me, that's an exciting kind of pain. For you, it is intolerable. I won't. Exactly. And so that's really interesting to me.

I mean, think about that. Well, histories, backgrounds, everything you're coming to the table. Yes. It definitely affects mental pain, but it probably affects physical pain too. 100%. There's all these studies about women have a higher threshold for pain on a lot of things because we are born out of a woman's pain, right? Childbirth is an inherently painful experience. But being a woman kind of means you just become accustomed to pain in a way.

Exactly. And I think it just makes us a little harder in that way. But I'm a big fat baby. Stuff's passed down. We've talked about it on Armchair. It's talked about, right? It's in the zeitgeist of inherited trauma. I have to be honest, I'm pretty skeptical of that. Even though there's legit science, I feel that it's more modeling. But some people think it's epigenome level. Genetically, you inherit trauma. And I'm a little skeptical of that. And even the data is a little overemphasized. Yes, there's a long way to go on all of that stuff. But I do believe that what you see and what is modeled for you gets woven into your DNA in some ways. It gets woven into your chemicals. 100%.

Anyway, okay. I fact-checked with Dax and I cried today. Oh. Yeah, I already cried. What did you cry about? I cried because he told a story about Delta. And is it a positive story? Yeah, it was fine.

It's a little sweet story of, I mean, Delta kind of, as you know, you met her, you were around her for like two days. And she like clung on to you. She clings to people and she makes connections. Kind of everywhere she goes, she does that. And they're in North Dakota, I think. She's fallen in love with this sister of the person they're staying with. And she had told Delta, tomorrow, let's go to the river and listen to the river sounds. So Delta woke up this morning, like early, and she was like brushing her hair and like getting ready,

even though the lady wasn't there yet. Then she went in the house, lady wasn't there. She came back and then she went to the river by herself and listened. And I just cried. And he was like, okay, what's going on? Oh, hormones. This is who you've been for the last two weeks though. Have you talked to Dax a lot? I feel like he might not. Yeah, he might not know.

I would feel that's normal because we're in this. But to anyone else, it's like, wait, why are you? He was very kind about it. I think he was just like, oh, hormones. But what is happening? What's under it or whatever? And I was like, I just love her so much. When I hear that, I'm about to cry right now. I just hear it and my cells start moving around in my body.

It's very crazy. And he was like, are you worried you're not going to have one of those? And I was like, I don't know. That is in the mix, I think. That feeling is so intense. It's limited with her. You know, she's not mine. And there's a piece of me that's like, ah, but like I want, not her, but well, I do want her, but maybe I need that. And sometimes something is so beautiful,

reflected back at you so that you know what you want. It's a signal, right? Every emotion is a message that is waiting to be heard. And so, I mean, I don't love that you know what you want. It's a signal, right? Every emotion is a message that is waiting to be heard. And so, I mean, I don't love that you cried, but I think that that seems like a positive cry that's giving you more information about what you might want. Yeah, I know.

And you're doing the thing that ensures that it could happen. You're doing the single most productive thing you can do right now. Yeah, that's true. To line that up so that that is a thing that happens for you. Yeah. Has it changed how you feel about yourself as a child?

Have you been thinking about that? How you relate to her? Weirdly, no. What it's done is made me connect more to my parents. Yeah. Less to me as a kid, but more to them parenting me and parenting my brother. The intensity. I don't think I could ever really, I still can't. We're not pregnant. Like we don't have children, but I grew in my mom. Yeah. That's wild. We grew in them. Yeah. What's this right now

in us was us. It's nuts. Yeah. It's magical. How does a mom, what? That's so much. It's a lot and it's cool. There's a part of it that I don't think I've related more to my younger self. I think I've related more to my older self. Ooh, talk about that. And who I would be as a parent. And it's almost like I'm minded that way now. Do you think it'll stay that way? Do you think part of it is the hormones and doing this and we'll go back to our stupid single lives and just be drinking wine and like not thinking? I wonder if this will change us a bit. Okay. Maybe in six months we should do a check-in. Yeah. That's a good point. It might be different. I might be like, I don't want kids. Yeah. What if? Wow. It could be. We don't know. Wow. It's so cool.

I'm so happy we're doing this. Me too. Me too. And you came over last night and I had my pod girls over. Mine is Kristen because she's out of town. But Erica, Amy, and Molly came and we put on a show for them with our shots. We had an audience. I felt proud.

Did you? Me too. I mean, they were impressed. And they're moms. They're full on moms. They are full on the best moms I know. And I don't know. I don't know another word. I just was like, I feel proud. You were proud because you also perform. Monica never wants to perform. Every time I pull out the phone, she just looks at me with, I have so many of eye rolls. If I want to make just a reel of eye rolls of Monica, I have more than enough. Okay. I can't help it. It's okay. And now I don't take it personally. I'm

like, oh, she just doesn't like, you took it personally because you know, we're spending all this time together and I'm like in your face, you're giving me needles. You're very supportive and doing so many things for me. Sometimes I worry, am I like an annoying TikToker coming into people's face? But then I noticed how happy you are when we do have it documented. And so now I know, okay, it's just that she doesn't like me on camera, but she likes it after. I'm really sorry I made you feel like that. No, don't feel sorry. And you don't make me feel anyway. I have to own the feelings that I feel. And that's just your experience of being videotaped. But last night I was like,

oh, she's not just allowing it to happen. She's enjoying it and proud of it. And I felt really, really happy about that, seeing you like that. It was like cool to be doing it in front of these other people that I love and trust so much. And also I'm a part of their motherhood world. I get to ride sort of shotgun to a lot of those. And it was kind of cool to have the roles reversed a little bit. I enjoyed it. But wait, we got to go back. Okay, we have to go back because this is important for us to talk about because I think what's very interesting about this whole thing we're doing is because

we're on hormones and because it is a crash course, it's like you got here, we started our hormones, it all happened. And we're incredibly vulnerable. We're doing this crazy thing. And you know, I thought about it like a few days in because I was like, oh my God, I didn't really know Liz. In real life, we met when you came here and that is all. We've texted. We've tried. We had a very COVID New Yorker thread. I think I have COVID. Oh, now I think I have COVID. Let's meet up. Okay, great. Oh, I don't have COVID, but it might be COVID. I'm waiting for my test and now you can't do it. It was like a slew of, we should read them. It's funny. But I feel like this is what would happen,

but still it could have gone the other way. It was very fascinating because I felt like it was asking Amy. I felt like it was asking Amy. Like, I felt like it was asking anyone I know really well and trust and love. But then when I reflected, I was like, oh my God, that's crazy. That is crazy. And now we jumped in head first. I feel so lucky and so grateful that it's gone the way it's gone. And I do feel I'm like, Liz is my best friend. It feels like that. That's how I feel feel, I'm like, Liz is my best friend. It feels like that. That's how I feel.

Sometimes I've been like, with your best, you know, I'm like, oh my God, don't be weird. She's going to think you're nuts. But like, it has felt like we're like sisters in a way. I want to cry when I say this because I think about doing it on my own and I have a tendency to go, if I'm on my own for too long, and again, I do something, I'll do it.

I'll arm up and I'll, you know, get through it. But that side of me, high functioning, whatever, the downside is that I don't know. I don't ask for help. I don't ask for support. I blame myself. I think you've transformed this experience for me in such a unique way where even the fact that I feel like I can do this, it's because I'm with you. No, because if I'd been alone, I made all these mistakes. I know we're not mom and dad and we're doing this separately. It's like mom and mom doing their own thing. But it does feel like we're co-parenting our egg freezing. Like it feels like I have a partner in this. And I think that's why it's been fun and exciting. And I guess it's

what happens when you do have a baby. I mean, again, it's very different, but you're like, oh my God, this is so hard. This is not what I thought it would be, but we can make it fun and we can grow through it. You've allowed me to do that in a way that I can't imagine doing this on my own. That's really, really sweet and nice. I think you're right. I think sisters feels like a good name for it

because also what's funny with the hormones, I think we don't really have an option but to be 100% ourselves. Maybe in another world, I might not be this version of me necessarily with someone I met twice. When we actually met for the first time, non-armchair, was when we had brunch with our friend Kate, our mutual friend. We were at this restaurant and we were like, should we order this or that? And we'd ordered way too much food. Afterwards, I was like, oh my God, we ordered so much food. And Kate said, yeah, I noticed that you and Monica were never going to

make a decision. You were just deferring to the other person and being like, what do you want? And trying to be nice to each other. And she was like, you guys were overly people-pleasing, so I just made the order. And I was like, oh, I guess I was. There's such a difference between like, hey, and then hey. You know, when I get to your house in my sweatpants and crying and we would have a few more fully dressed waistband and bra out in the world. Yeah, I was wearing suspenders that day. You were so cute. You were extremely cute.

And maybe we'll get back to that phase where we go out into the world and we don't wear flip flops, you know? I don't think so. I mean, this is like when you have a camp person. They become part of your fabric. Yeah. And there's no real going back. Yeah, that's so true. I mean, we might go out in the world and look cute.

Look cuter. But there's no going back relationship-wise. No, no, 100%. It is like going to camp. Because also, I've had time to see nobody. Every time I've tried to make plans, I can't. Yeah. I've been very much in camp.

Yes. Not really calling people like you would do at a camp. And it's been almost kind of hard to talk to other people. It's not like we're doing this thing that no one else does, but it's just a lot of explaining. And like with you, I just don't have to explain any of it, right? I don't have to explain how I'm feeling or why I can, again, come as I am. And you obviously come as you are. And we don't have to talk about the whole thing, which I guess we're doing on this podcast.

But whatever, whatever. So stupid. It's like so annoying to have to talk about it. This is literally what you asked for but i also want to be open and clear that when i'm super close with someone especially someone in my family but even my top tier i don't often feel like i have to explain myself or like apologize which is i think a character defect and i have to work on it i should have definitely did a disclaimer to you, like, hey, just so you know, when I'm, like, stressed about the TikTok,

it's so not about you. No, but it is important because you don't know that about me. Callie knows the eye roll to her and, like, to Dax. Like, he, like, jokes about the eye. The eye roll is my signature. I hate it more than anything. I love it. I think it's so funny.

No, I can't. I've tried so hard to stop. No, literally in ninth grade in my theater class, my teacher was like, Monica, you have a tell. You eye roll so much. And I was like, oh, my God, what? I really tried to stop. This was in ninth. It was 14. And I'm still eye rolling. my God, what? I really tried to stop. This was a night. It was 14.

And I'm still eye rolling. I must have been doing it in the womb. Like, oh, my God, it's so hot in here. I can so imagine a little tiny Monica embryo just going like. Oh, my God. Get me out of here. This place has so many snacks. That's so funny. Do you have any videos of you at the age of 13 or 14 eye rolling? Because that's probably just classic. I've just been exasperated like my whole life. But I don't like that about me,

but I have to have some acceptance around it because I'll keep trying to change it. But also, it's going to happen. No, you're expressive. I don't feel like you have a good poker face. Am I wrong? I don't. It's so out there. And so I think it's fine.

I think it's great. That's a wonderful thing about you. I think you should eye roll more if you want. Nope. Are there any eye rolls that you keep on the inside? Well, I think I'm keeping them all. if you want. Nope. Are there any eye rolls that you keep on the inside? Well, I think I'm keeping them all. I think that's the really scary part is sometimes I think I'm doing a good job and I am not. But I think ultimately, look, what you see is kind of what you get with me. You're not getting

deceived. I know. Like if I'm annoyed, I'm annoyed. If I'm happy, you're going to receive that too. I appreciate that. But some people might take it personally like you did. And I wish I hadn't done that to you. No, I didn't take it personally. I didn't want. Well, you didn't want to feel like a burden because that's your issue. Yes. I didn't want to feel like an annoying, which was also what I was as a kid to my mom. And so that's my core stuff. One little tiny eye roll shouldn't send me off the cliff. And again, that's how a lot of people made my life. I mean, at Vox, they put in the schedule of the show 10 minutes for Liz to fuck around on TikTok because they were so annoyed. But then everyone loved it in the end, you know? And so when you're happy with the final product, I get really happy.

And I feel like you've been getting enjoyment out of it because you're really good at TikTok. And TikTok is freaking out, you guys. There's a TikTok. I sent it to you this morning. Every comment is like, Monica's on TikTok. Monica's on TikTok. So let's to you this morning. Every comment is like, Monica's on TikTok. Monica's on TikTok. So let's do it. Let's push for more.

Don't get too used to it. She's too good at it. But also, don't download the app. You're going to lose 12 hours of your life. I'm not downloading the app. Don't do it. Stay tuned for more, if you dare. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp

and we are sponsored by help. For sure. We would not be here without a lot of help. It's a whole team it takes, you know, to make the dream happen. It really, really does. I actually, sometimes I've been like, how did I do this?

How did I do life before therapy? And it's a little bit like thinking about how you did life before having an iPhone and a GPS and any song you want at any point of the day. Yeah. It's a tool like that. They're real life actionable tools that a third party can give you that you can't see that your friends can't see because they're not trained in any way. It's really, really important to help you approach life's challenges. Yes. So their therapists are trained to help you figure out the cause of challenging emotions and then learning coping skills that are healthy and productive. So it makes therapy the closest thing

to a guided tour of the complex engine that's called you. I love that metaphor. As the world's largest therapy service, BetterHelp has matched 3 million people with professionally licensed embedded therapists available 100% online. Plus, it's affordable. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to match with a therapist. If things aren't clicking, you can easily switch to a new therapist anytime. It couldn't be simpler. No waiting rooms, no traffic, no endless searching for the right therapist. Learn more and save 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash fertility. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash fertility. Race to 35 is brought to you by Parallel. Parallel is the first and only OBGYN-founded vitamin that offers targeted vitamin routines that are specifically formulated for each unique

stage of a woman's hormonal life. It's so great. I have a whole shelf of my pantry that's dedicated to a very messy setup of pills and bottles, And I don't take them because it's overwhelming. And I'm like, which one is it again? And what am I doing? And this feels like a perfect solution. things you need. Like the egg freezing pack has antioxidants, omegas, iron, and a multivitamin in there. So it's all just like packed up for you. You're right. There's not just like bottle, hi, take one of this and then one of this. And the one at the back you've never seen. You're like, oh my God, I haven't been taking omega for months. What's going to happen? Yeah. And parallel packs come with a 30-day supply of vitamins into a little recyclable daily packets. You can take it on the go. You can throw some in your purse in case you forget. So exclusively for Race to 35 listeners,

Parallel is offering 15% off your first three months of Parallel with code RACE15. So head to Parallel.co. That's P-E-R-E-L-E-L dot co. It's dot co. It's not dot com. And if you don't love it, you can cancel it anytime. And there is a 30 day money back guarantee. It has been a learning curve, though, because I get very flustered also, but it's a different

thing. And it's very task oriented I'm like we have to stay on task and if it gets derailed my brain can't handle it or something it freaks out so at the beginning when it was like okay we gotta do a tiktok I'm like wait that's not in my plan it's about control no it's totally no don't say no it Don't you dare say no, okay? Don't try to control my control. No, but really, it is. It's all about my need for control. And so when I'm like, okay, we got to have the computer here and we're going to do this and we're going to do this and we're going to do this. And then after that, we're going to do this. It's all planned out in my head. And so when there's a wrench, I lose patience. And this is a good rehearsal for kids. They're nothing but a wrench.

They're just wrenches throwing in saying, let me do TikTok. So it's great for me. Okay, so I'm like your rehearsal for like an annoying kid. I love it. I'm a little annoying. I'm a little annoying. You're not. I love that we get overwhelmed different ways because I get overwhelmed and that's where I want to just, again, do the TikTok, distract myself and you get on task. That is why we are on day nine and we have all our objections are done

because the task is what gets lost. Virgo Pisces. We just work. I recommend Virgo Pisces. It's a good yin and yang. It's really powerful. I was saying that Callie maybe, she's also a Pisces, which is very interesting. But she's weird. I think she has a lot of Virgo. Is she on the cusp? When is her birthday? March 14th.

Oh, interesting. Wait, isn't that a Pisces? When's yours? That's Pisces, yeah. I'm 19th. Oh, wow. Yeah. Maybe she's Virgo rising or something.

She's a doer. She is, exactly. And she's very task-oriented. She's Trace. I mean, Trace. Trace is 100% Virgo. Yes. So Pisces, so on task.

I can't keep a train of thought today. I'm also very bloated now. Me too. Everywhere. I am bloated. The eggs are growing. I touched your stomach yesterday and you screamed. I did.

Because it hurt you. Yeah. It's that tender. It's very tender. I can't really lie on my stomach and I love lying on my stomach. And then I also have this mental thing where I'm like, don't crush me. As if there's like a baby I'm going to crush. And even then, I think you can't crush the baby if you sleep on your stomach. Don't quote me on that. Or even like I bump into everything. It's like a thing. But when I'm walking close to the counter at Kristen's and Dax's, I'll like slow down just so I don't walk right into the corner, which would be kind of silly. So you don't hit, you don't punch her any of the eggs. Yeah. It's a rehearsal. It's such a rehearsal. We should have Nathan on. Oh my God. I would love to. That would be funny.

Okay. Yeah. So Virgo Pisces has been working out. It's such yin and yang. And I was telling Callie, it's so great because I do think your strengths are my weaknesses and perhaps vice versa. So it really is coming together in a nice way. We would have zero content. We would have zero.

Rob isn't even here to take pictures. Like literally there'd be nothing. Yeah, no, that's a good point. Thank God you're here to do all this stuff that I roll about. Yes. I think the yin and the yang, the weaknesses and the strengths is exactly right because I can't even do my own shots. So there would be no shots to document if you weren't a Virgo queen. And last night we were saying that maybe you should have a full costume. But tomorrow's our last night. Do you want to wear costumes to the egg retrieval?

I think we have to take our clothes off. Damn it. Maybe for Trigger Shot we could do costumes, but we have to get them today. Now it's another task. Another task. Is there a costume store? It's not like New York. New York, for some reason, there's just Halloween all year round.

Really? There's the costume store that's open year round in every borough. What should it be? Scrubs? It should be scrubs, right? Or we could just get tiaras. We could keep those for the retrieval. Definitely.

That would be funny. Or party hats or something. After this, we're going to Face Gym. Yes. Oh my God. Just having someone slap us in the face over and over again. I cannot recommend. It is so nice.

It's so nice. We're going to do that. Maybe we'll go costume shopping after this. Okay. So we thought that we might talk about something a little bit different today because it's a real option in what we're doing. We wanted to talk to someone who's actively decided not to have kids. And she, you may have heard of her, Chelsea Handler. She's a friend of the pod, a friend of mine.

I love her so much. So let's hop in with Chelsea. Hi, girls. Chelsea. Hi, girls. Chelsea. Monica, people loved you on the podcast. Chelsea, you know, you made actual dreams come true because you're married. Yeah. You're in your first relationship.

Exactly. And it escalated quick. No, Jennifer Aniston, probably your best friend. I don't know. She liked that post and she's my number one. Did she follow you? I doubt it. Well, look, maybe she followed you.

I'll look. I don't even need it. The fact that she liked that post of yours that I was on, I love her. I'm sure she knows who you are. We've talked to a lot of people at this point about so many different things. Fertility fraud. That one was on. I love her. I'm sure she knows who you are. We've talked to a lot of people at this point about so many different things. Fertility fraud. That one was delicious. What was that documentary we were talking about that? Exactly. That crazy doctor. Oh, so gross. There's so many stories. Like this woman who we talked to had nothing to do with that documentary and same story. This is nuts. So many yucky men out there. Evergreen.

It is evergreen. What a sad state of affairs. Men should be standing up next to us, calling out all of these other men and being like, we do not accept you in our group. Yes. Exactly. Please remove yourself. And their whole thing is protecting women.

That's what really angers me. Even according to your own definition of masculinity, you're not being a man by failing to protect women, even when you think about it in the most paternalistic kind of way. Yeah, exactly. They think they're on our side and that's enough. No, you need to get up and march and fight because our health is your health. Exactly. But yeah, we've talked to a bunch of people and interesting stories, and some of them are really private and intense. But this episode on choosing not to be

a mom, we've had the hardest time getting people. I think it tells me something that women who make this decision, which I think is an incredibly valid decision, one I still might make, there's shame. What do you feel about it? Do you feel shame from the universe? No, I don't feel shame. I feel I'm making more of a contribution by not becoming a parent. What I can contribute to, A, my own family, my nieces and nephews by being available to them. You know, I'm probably not the best aunt, but I'm pretty good at it. I think you're really good. Thank you, girls. I appreciate that. And I mean, I'm available for them. I'm always supportive of them in whatever means necessary. Additionally, I'm able to give out lots of money to strangers that I'll never meet in times where people need that to help

children, to help families. I'm so available in those ways that I have no doubt that that is my real purpose. My generosity is for everybody, not for my insular family. And what I've come to realize a lot in seeing the way different people manage their households and their families and the raising of their kids, especially in L.A., where things are pretty dicey with getting your kids into school and the competitive nature and it's a fucking racket and people pay $60,000 for their kid to go to preschool. You're trying to get your kid in the best school to have the best chance at success. Of course, that's what a parent wants. But that's not considering all the other kids in the world. I know. When it's super one-dimensional like that and everyone's like, well, I've got to get my kid. And it's like that. It's kind of hard to respect that person because

it's not just about your kid. It's about all kids and all children. You know, that's the idea of public schooling is that people are supposed to come together from different walks of life and learn about different ways of life by being culturally represented in every capacity, not just going to school with a bunch of people that look like you. So I feel like a lot of people who think that they're woke and they're liberal and they've got their shit together are really thinking about their nuclear family more than they're thinking in a broader perspective. And of course, there are people who aren't like that. You know, I have plenty of friends who are actually much more well rounded than that, but it's a pretty icky endeavor. And I've seen it within my own family, too,

at certain times where you're just tunnel visioned. Yeah. You're already going to win. You know what I mean? You're already winning. How much do you have to win? Wow. That's really a smart take on it because I do think people believe that if you don't have kids, you've removed your maternal instinct. You've removed caring about others. Really, you actually have more to give. Absolutely. The way I can show up for friendships when I have a friend in need, and it doesn't even have to give. Absolutely. The way I can show up for friendships when I have a friend in need and it doesn't even have to be a friend.

I've been given referrals before where people are going through crisis and one of my friends will be like, oh, Chelsea's really good at crisis. Chelsea will help you with this. People that I don't even know will call me and be like, hey, or my friend will be like, I don't have the time to deal with this.

Can you go deal with this? I've done that in my life so many times just to help. It's obviously more female heavy because I'm a woman and that's my natural predilection is to feel close to women. But I am available for that. I'm available if your heart is broken or the rug got pulled out from under you or you're going through a terrible, ugly divorce. I am available to help build back your self-esteem and help you understand the value in your own personhood. And I am very good at that. That is a skill set that I used to think was a little bit overbearing. And now I've understood that it's a gift. Such a gift.

And that's another thing I'm available for. If I had a fucking kid, do you know how selfish I would be about that kid? It's true. The other thing that I really want to emphasize is I went to Disneyland when I was five or six. I felt like my intelligence was under assault because I couldn't believe what a racket that place was. And I've made a vow to myself that I would never have a child, so I would never have to go back there. When you were five, you knew that? I don't know if I knew that, but I had an instinct and that instinct stayed with me. And over time, I was able to articulate what that instinct felt like, which was I don't ever want to set foot in a place like this again. I don't want to go to Chuck E. Cheese. I don't want to go to a

pizza party. I don't want to go to another roller skating party. There are so many things that I'm done with. I had a childhood and I don't want another person exposing me to that. So there's other aspects of it too that aren't as altruistic. Yeah, because kids have pinworms, butt worms and lice. And hand and foot and mouth disease. Exactly. Whatever that is. I don't even understand. Is it your hand or your foot or both?

And then your mouth? Yeah. Because they touch their butts a lot too and it goes from butt to hand to eye to other things. Stay tuned for more, if you dare. We are supported by HelloFresh. Okay, this is very exciting because the holidays are just around the corner. And HelloFresh makes this busy time of year easier than ever with chef-crafted recipes and pre-portioned ingredients delivered right to your door so you can spend less time meal planning and prepping it's cheaper than grocery shopping and 25 less expensive than takeout okay so we made some meals

this week i made this chicken zucchini and tomato flatbread because i was having some people over and i needed a little app and it was was perfect. Were people like so impressed? Yes. That's the thing. They come in. They're like, oh my gosh, you made this? And you say, yeah, I did. I'm really good.

It had a little lemon ricotta. It had fresh parsley, honey, and a little chili flake. It was really, really yummy. What did you make? I made this like vegan Tex-Mex cauliflower bowl that they have. I loved it. It had guacamole, which is a must. And it also had this pineapple salsa, which typically I'm not into sweet and salty, but this hit the spot. Yum. That sounds so good. Go to HelloFresh.com

slash Fertility70 and use code Fertility70 for 70% off plus free shipping. That's HelloFresh.com slash FERTILITY70. And use code FERTILITY70 for 70% off plus free shipping. America's number one meal kit. But I do have to say, I was in Greece recently with a group of friends, and they had three children, different ages, young. The oldest one was 11, and the youngest was four. And they were delightful children, but it's a full-time job. We're on a boat. You've got to watch everybody, make sure everybody's got their life jackets.

They didn't have a nanny with them, which I respected. And they made it seem like it was totally normal to have three kids. Yeah. Like, fine. So when I see that, I'm always like, huh, that's amazing that you have such a bandwidth. Is it that they have such a bandwidth or just other areas suffer so that all their utiles can go to that? I don't know. I mean, some people seem to have it together enough to do it all. Maybe it's a facade, but some people are

better at it for sure than others. But some people take a lot of joy and a lot of pleasure in their parenting. And that's always really nice to see. Yeah, that's true. And they need childless people like you to help and be around. The parents need non-parents in all kinds of different ways, either to support their kids and be the cool aunt or to support them when they're going through something. And Glennon Doyle talks about how we have this very limited view of being a mom and being a parent that during child separation, policies that she really thought I'm not the mother just of one child. We should see ourselves as parents of all children. You know, what I love about your perspective is that it seems like you take motherhood so seriously.

That's why you're choosing not to do it, not the other way around, right? Because people would assume you don't want to be a mom because you're selfish. You don't want to be a mom because you don't have what it takes. But you're like, no, it takes a very specific thing. And if I want to do it, I want to do it right. Didn't you say in an interview, it should be harder for people to have children? Yeah. Yeah, there should be a test. It's selfish to have a child without thinking it through. That's selfish. I agree. I've had so many girlfriends who were like, oh, I'm in my 40s.

I got pregnant. I wasn't planning on having a baby, but now it's irresponsible to get an abortion. No, it's not. First of all, get one while you still fucking can. Exactly. A. B, you're not doing any baby any favor by being on the fence about becoming a parent. Exactly. With all this rose up, that was

the first thing I thought of. All these kids that are about to be born to parents who don't know how, don't know what they're in for, don't want to. This child is the only one that suffers. I mean, look, the woman suffers too, but look at the children. Growing up in a household to parents who don't want you is not a happy life. That's the origin of every villain of not being wanted. Right. That's the Joker. And also really having reductive reasoning about it.

My sister once said, oh, I just wanted someone that looked like me. And I was like, what? Oh, wow. That's a lot of people, though. It is. They're like a mini me. You want someone to love you. I don't want to die alone.

That's something I hear all the time. Or I want somebody that's going to love me unconditionally. That's not what a kid is for. Go get a dog. That's not the right prescription for what your desire is. But it is about real self-analysis and understanding what your strengths and weaknesses are. And if you're going to be somebody that's going to be good at that job, I don't think you should just get to have a baby. Yeah. Well, within our friend group, we were at a white elephant party and one of the gifts was a voodoo set or something. I don't know, like a Ouija board and then some other shit and some pot all wrapped up into a gift and I got it.

And then someone traded and took it away or whatever. And then my friend Eric, who has two kids, he was like, that has evil spirits. He believes in evil spirits. So he's like, that is evil spirits. He believes in evil spirits. So he's like, that is evil spirits. Who got it? I was like, oh, Jenny. And he was like, does she have kids? And I was like, no. And he was like, oh, good. And I was like, wait, wait, wait. Just because she doesn't have kids, now it's okay that she gets eaten by the evil spirit in his head. And I think this is very common. And then Dax and I have had multiple conversations about it since. Does it make you more valuable? Does it make you more necessary?

I obviously fuck up against this so much. Then when I really think about it, I'm like, but they do have to care for this little bean. It just gets complicated because I can't let anyone tell me I'm not as valuable as somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny you say that. You go through these crazy scenarios in your head and you're like, okay, if one of us had to die, it would have to be me because I'm not a mother. Right. I've thought that for sure before too. I mean, I would argue that that is valid. I know. And my sister's like, but think about all the people that would be impacted at you dying. And I was like, yeah, but I don't have a child to raise. It's a little bit different, but I know what you're saying. I've had those thoughts before. I mean, it's a biological and

a societal bias to be like, God, in the hierarchy of society. I've also talked about this, like when we go on vacation as a big pod, right? So we have families, then we have couples, and then we have singles. And I feel like it literally goes in that order. It does. And even when we're picking rooms. You get the shittiest room. You get the couch. I'm loud and I demand my own room. I think it's part of our emancipation as single people. For like single people to stand up when you get the shitty pullout to be like, no, why would I? I know. And they're like, well, obviously there are two people sleeping together. It's like, well, then they can split up.

Like, well, obviously there are two people sleeping together. It's like, well, then they can split up. Nothing like going on a vacation with your boyfriend or girlfriend and then having to split up. Exactly. I know. I know. That's what makes me awful because I'm like, we're all the same. And they're like, no.

You know, when you go out to dinner or they have like a dinner arrangement for you, like a seating assignment, I'm always like, fuck off. Just let everybody sit wherever they want. I don't like assigned seating. No, there's an implied hierarchy and I don't like it. But what you're saying is so true. It's reflected in weird trip things of preferences of rooms, but also the birth rate has been plummeting for a while. And so there's policies that are being presented. And there's one in the UK, this conservative writer or whatever, wrote this column suggesting a tax on child-free people. That if you don't have a child, you should pay a tax. What?

Or even like a letter from the queen on your 30th to encourage people to have more babies. Wait, why would you encourage that? How about a carbon credit for not contributing to mass population? There you go. How about that for not having children? Do you know how much energy and pollution one person adds to this world? If anything, they need to be capping. I mean, I know we're not allowed to say that and I'm not saying that. We're not allowed to get canceled, we said, while we're freezing our

eggs. Yeah. Take me back to China, 1994. Exactly. That's outrageous. It's wildly offensive and insulting. And only in a society where people who don't have children are devalued and it's totally acceptable to do it, would someone even suggest that? I think it's just a reflection of where we are. I mean, there is an argument for capping children in terms of the environment. There should be children in restaurants, too. I think there should be a limit. Not in general, but just at a time. I have this new thing that I've done. I think it's part of my growth and understanding that when I hear a child screaming, I'm able to just not hear it. I would get so irritated when

I was on a plane or in a restaurant when there was a really obnoxious kid. I felt compelled to tell the parents how badly that they were behaving or that they're terrible. And then after a while, I realized, no, no, you're terrible. Think about how to not let that sound wave come into your area and disrupt you. And I've gotten good at it, I have to say. Right. Being thankful that you're not responsible for it is probably a good way to get through it. That's a great beginning. Yeah, that's a great way to get into it. Great way in. Gratitude always. Gratitude that you're not their parent. Yeah. I was on a plane recently and a baby cried the whole time. And I felt so bad for that mother.

I was like, ugh. My sister was once on a plane and her baby was a fucking nightmare. And the flight attendant came over and she goes, hi, we have a room in the back row and I'm going to put your baby in the back row. And my sister goes, without me? Yeah, exactly. Great. She's like, no, both of you are going in the back row. She got moved to the back of the bus.

I was like, oh, that's so brutal. Wow. Oh, man. Motherhood's so hard. I'm around so many incredible moms and I'm just like, yikes. For anyone who's listening, who's on the fence or, you know, doesn't think that they want children and they feel shame about it or they feel, what is my purpose then? Is this a full life? I'm here to tell you it is a full life. I've had the most exciting time of my life repeatedly over and over and over again because of

my untetheredness. I'm not tethered to anything. I don't have that sense of responsibility. I have a sense of responsibility to a vast array of other things in my life, but I don't have anything that is keeping me in one place at one time. There is a whole world out there of interests and passions and adventure. And if you're a person like me who has a real zest for that

and a real passion to see as much and meet as many people as possible, you're not doing a disservice to the world by not procreating. Quite the opposite. Have you had any moments at all of wavering or you've just been reiterated over and over that it's the right decision? No, I mean, I've been in relationships where I thought, oh, that would be a cool kid, he and I. But no, not in a real concrete way. You know, when I was 16 and got pregnant, I was like, oh, yes, I'm going to be a mom. I was hoping for twins. Well, I was 16 and I was an asshole. I was so excited. I was like, I had names picked out for the twins. They weren't twins, but in my mind that I was going to have twins. And my mother was like, you're not going to be a mother. You're getting an abortion and you're going to thank me many years later. And she was right. I was not ready, but I really believed that was the only time I was in a hubris enough to be like, oh,

this might be a good idea. Even my sisters are like, you shouldn't become a mother. They know me and I don't take offense to that. Thank you for knowing me and telling me that. But I've never really contemplated doing it. If I got pregnant, I would get an abortion. Yeah. I think back at this scene in House of Cards where Claire Underwood is asked, do you ever regret not having children? I think that's probably a question that people ask you. She responds, do you ever regret having them? It doesn't have to be this binary. Do you regret it or did you want to do it? You could have those moments and still decide not to do it. And it's the right decision. Yeah, absolutely. Women don't have enough to fucking deal with. You know what I mean? We have enough to deal with. Don't put that on us. I mean, obviously,

bringing children into the world is a woman's job because men can't give birth yet. But hopefully one day they'll be able to. Do you think they'll be able to handle it? They can't. No, they can't handle it. There'll be zero children. Talk about population control. That's biological. I don't think they can. I don't think our species would survive. Well, evolutionarily, they could if we stopped having children.

They would figure out a way. I mean, it would take a million years, but nothing's impossible with the human form and evolution. If something doesn't work one way, we have to figure out another way. So I wouldn't rule it out, but I bet men will become extinct before that happens. Just based on their recent contributions. Oh my God, you should sell that show to Netflix. I think they'll buy it in the room. Yeah, just observing men as an anthropological experiment, because it does look like they're trying to be extinct. Men feel like they're trying to do it on purpose. No, but it's true.

Don't you think? No, I don't. I think they think they're great and that everything they do is great. Everything's perfect. I'll have to cut this because I'm sure we have one or two male listeners and then we just lost them. That's okay.

It takes a real man to understand the problem. Real men do understand that they're the problem. It's not every man that is a bad guy, but there's enough bad guys out there that as a collective, they should all be man enough to recognize that there's an issue. Yeah. We've talked a little bit about this, but part of my reluctance to be a mother and doing egg freezing has made me more inclined to want to do it. But one of the reasons is the idea of finding the right partner, that there are not a lot of men who feel like they could be up to the task or be good partners. So do you think if more men were good, more women

would want to have babies with them? I don't think that's been stopping people. They're having babies with men that don't deserve to be having babies to begin with. That's been happening since the beginning of time. And it's going to keep happening now that women are prohibited from getting abortions in half the country. So no, if men really want to step up, it would be to use protection. Stop having sex without condoms when you're not in a committed relationship with somebody. Nobody likes condoms, but it would be the decent thing to do in this time. And as far as women, I think women are always just going to have babies. It's a maternal thing.

To circle back to what you guys were saying, you know, just because you don't become a mother doesn't mean you don't have a maternal instinct. Yes. I have a very maternal instinct. And it's just for other people. It's just not for my children. You are. You're such a giving, generous human. I mean, even the fact that you made this happen.

You're so busy. You were on vacation. You have this and that. And I was like, I'm going to ask Chelsea. I know she's really busy, but I also think she'll do it because she is a giver. You give so much time and oh, we had a little wobble. I got a boner, you guys. I just got a little boner and I popped the top of the desk. All this talk about men and how inefficient they are. And then all these compliments. It was just like this perfect storm of eroticism. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I love you. No, but it's really, really the truth. Dax has also

said that before. There are some people in this industry who are just really generous and say yes and are there for everyone across the board. And you're definitely one of them. So we appreciate you very much. That's so nice. Thank you, Monica. As an update, because I was on your show, it was so fun. I was so flattered. And I think it turned out great. I was really happy with it. Yeah, it was great. But we talk about this show. It was before we started the show. And I told Chelsea, I was like, oh, I'm doing this podcast, this fertility podcast about to start it and freezing

eggs. You know, I was supposed to get off birth control, but I didn't. And Chelsea was like, you definitely don't want to have kids if you won't even get off birth control for a couple months. And I was like, that's true. I am very much a 50-50. I am not someone who's like, I'm meant to have kids. I'm more like you. I still have a lot to give this world regardless of whether or not it's a child. Yes, I would agree with that wholeheartedly. So we'll see. So how do you make that decision? Because I feel like I'm 50-52, even though I feel like during this process, I've been more baby. We're also shot up with so many hormones. So many hormones. I can only imagine. It's been nuts. But yeah, what would you tell someone who is kind of on the fence about

it? I would say, honestly, I think if you want to have a baby, it has to be all-consuming, and it has to be the thing that you absolutely need to do. And if there's any question, then there's no question. All right. Well, no babies. Okay. Great. That's all. Just came here to drop some bombs, guys.

Saved like $10,000 in therapy. I love it. Well, I love you. I'm going to let you go because you're busy, busy, and we appreciate you so much. I appreciate you girls, too. Love you both. Thank you. Bye'm gonna let you go because you're busy, busy. And we appreciate you so much. I appreciate you girls too. Love you both. Thank you. Bye. Bye.

Okay. That was awesome. Love Chelsea. A big thanks to her for chatting with us. We're at the end, folks. We only have a couple left and we'll see you next week to get ready for our retrieval.