Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Sam Rockwell

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Sam Rockwell (Bad Guys 2, The White Lotus, Moon) is an Academy Award-winning actor. Sam joins the Armchair Expert to discuss growing up in the Tenderloin of San Francisco, doing plays and improv with his mom at 10 years old, and the parallels between charm and fuel. Sam and Dax talk about stumbling into a Willy Wonka entrance doing his faker baker dancing, adopting delusions of grandeur that he moves like a stretch limo, and completing the two year Meisner program that changed his life. Sam explains getting recognized for the first time while bussing tables, how he builds characters with his acting teacher of 26 years, and the illusion of safety amid peaks and valleys of success.Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dak Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hi. And we have one of my biggest crushes alive.

He's a stud. Oh, what an animal. Sam Rockwell. You know him from absolutely everything. He's just got that X factor. He's got that sprinkle of just unbridled charisma. Yeah, he has an electricity. High on the soul spectrum, also uber comfortable in his own skin.

Yep. Oh. Yeah, we love him. I don't know, I'm gonna put him in a top five, like most comfortable in their own skin. I. Oh. Yeah, we love him. I don't know, I'm gonna put him in a top five, like most comfortable in their own skin. I don't know who the other, I know Snoop's there. Sure. He might be number one, but that's a nice quality.

Okay, on a scale of one to a hundred, where do you put you? Comfortable in my own skin, and I'm gonna, let's just arbitrarily give Rockwell 92. Okay. We'll give Rockwell 92. We'll give Snoop 100. Okay. I'll go 88.

Yeah, I think you're very comfortable in your skin. Most of the time. Yeah. Yeah, I have my moments, but. Well, talking to Snoop, funny enough. Sure. I get so insecure. That's how this works. If you talk to people who are above you on the scale.

They shine a light on the 12% that's uncomfortable. Okay, three billboards outside of Ebbing, Missouri. The Green Mile, Jojo Rabbit, Moon, Charlie's Angels. So memorable, White Lotus season three. And then, and this is a bit of an update, I ended up after this interview just tagging along with him. Oh, nice.

To go watch the bad guys too. It wasn't a premiere, it was just for the cast. Oh, fun. And I went and it was so fun and I loved the movie. Did you see the first one? No, what I watched. They do actions so well. That's the unique thing about this particular franchise.

Yeah. Is the actions off the charts. Nice. And it was great. The bad guys too. And that is out in theaters August 1st. Take your loved ones. You'll love it.

Please enjoy Sam Rockwell. Hello everyone. We're Jamie and Sophie. You may remember us from nearly-weds and then newly-weds. But now guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet, becoming parents. Yeah, that's right. Newly Wedds is now Nearly Parents and we're bringing you the same honest, heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood, I guess. Join us as we find out what it really means to become a family while trying not to kill each other.

Get ready for Nearly Parents, your favorite new podcast. I'm thrilled. I got you some chocolate. Dax is undressed. I don't know if you're into it. It's gorgeous. I don't know which ones you want to trade. No, both seem so smooth.

I took the one with the almond, sorry. Yeah, I would have had the one with the almond too. What is this place? Morris. It's on Hillhurst. God damn, they really know what they're doing. Yeah, during Matra? Yeah. You want to pull off that too? Tomorrow. Tomorrow. God damn, they really know what they're doing. Yeah, during Maitre? Yeah.

You wanna pull off that too? Wow. Let's see how fucking. How much caffeine can you take in a day? We're gonna need a pack of cigarettes at some point. It's been a long time for me. I had a cigarette recently. Oh you did?

And I had one in seven years. On the deck of a boat or? On Easter Island. Okay, so not a terrible gas. Yeah. What were you doing on Easter Island? I was doing a, oh we. Okay, so not a terrible gas. Yeah. What were you doing on Easter Island? I was doing a, oh, we're recording over here. We're always recording.

We're always recording. And we're gonna miss out on an Easter Island story. I was with John Malkovich and we just were hanging, avoiding people and we started talking about cigarettes and then, you know. You need a one. Yeah.

When was the last time you smoked a cigarette? I know exactly, cause I had to quit, you know. I need a one. Yeah. When was the last time you smoked a cigarette? I know exactly, cause I had to quit. You know, I was a very heavy smoker. So in September, 20 years. 20 years, wow. Yeah. Were you ever a heavy smoker? No, I was always a dilettante smoker, so.

Yeah, you have this, it's a very enviable, you can do everything, but you're not addicty, right? I mean, I'm a little addicty with the gym. It's definitely a better addiction, as you know. as you know, because you have a great gym. We just perused it. Yeah. Yeah. You push the sled, you pull the sled.

I don't know. Is that how you hurt your back pulling a sled? It's fucking zoom and FaceTime training. It was a two dimensional image with a trainer and they can't see your form. So I'm really so over Zoom, man. Even therapy, like I did therapy on FaceTime. I just got sick of it. Now I'm guessing you were already seeing

that therapist in person, right? Cause I started in COVID. Oh, you started in COVID. Therapy. Okay. And I started on FaceTime. And I think that did a lot for me. It was another dude. Yeah. I'm not super trusting of other dudes.

Yeah. And there was some distance. And I ended up loving that. Cause I'm like, oh, this is great. I'm not like in a room with a man or I'm having all those weird things about being in a room with, you know, a dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cause the therapist is kind of your dad. Or if you have a male one. Sure, I have a female. I have a woman. Oh, is she your mom? And you know, I've got some mommy issues, so it's probably good. It's all that transference stuff.

You're projecting onto them. Yeah, and it can be anything. It can be your girlfriend, your brother, your sister, your mother, your father, whatever. You start treating them as if you treat those people. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They're actors. Therapists.

Yes, because they have you come in, they're like, oh great, I'm Sam's mom, I gotta remember that. And then they have you come in, they're like, oh great, I'm Sam's mom, I gotta remember that. And then some other gal comes in, she's like, okay, I'm the shitty sister, right? You kinda gotta code switch and be different. Yeah, you do, I guess. I guess you have to be fast.

Well, you have to listen. Yes, another key ingredient of acting. That's tough. So you've had the same client for like a decade and they're still telling you about some old broken record So you've been you've been only doing a couple years got it. Okay. Yes. Yeah, I've been doing it like a while how many years since I had a bad breakup in my 20s and then I got kind of weird I had a weird phase and

Then I had to go to therapy like Like the movie Shame Weird Phase or? Not quite like that. Like the monologue from White Lotus Phase? Yes, I could have gone that road maybe, but not that weird. No, I got what you might call hypochondriacal, sort of neurotic. Oh, interesting. And it was kind of a post-neurosis kind of thing.

It's throughout my 20s, I wasn't neurotic at all. And around 29, I had this breakup with a very serious girlfriend. And then I just got real sensitive and I had to go see a shrink. You thought you were sick all the time? I got really sensitive, like car noises. Oh, it sounds like an anxiety disorder. Yeah, exactly. I had that panic disorder.

Ding, ding, ding. When she worked at SoulCycle, what you were just telling me, you loved it. You worked at SoulCycle? I did the front desk. No shit. But I got so anxious, I had to quit. No shit. Yeah, of course it's so fucking loud in there.

You know, I'm like 25 years old and people would come out and be passing out and it was on us to like revive them. I was like, I don't have this skill. Passing out, of course. Sure, naturally. Because they're doing like three classes in a row and they're not hydrating, yeah.

Okay, let's go over our history real quick. Yeah, okay, Groundlings, right? God, great memory of the people who ever came backstage after a show. You were among them. I wanna say you were with Minnie Driver. I came to see Minnie. Had you done Idiocracy at that point?

No, no, no, I had never been in anything. I didn't have a SAG card, I didn't have an agent. And I was already on the Sam Rockwell train. I got on very, very early and I was already very obsessed with you. That's nice of you to say. Truly, I was like, look at this sparkly unicorn. Meanwhile, you're a trained improvisationalist,

which is a big skill. Nicotine. Oh, nicotine. I thought we were gonna make out or something. Well, we're not ruling that out. If this goes perfectly, that's where we'll end. But yes, you came backstage and we had just done an improv show

and you were so complimentary. Again, I didn't have an agent. I was 28. I'm like, it's never gonna happen. Just you being effusive about thinking I was funny and that you had seen me be funny and I was a huge fan of yours, literally bought me time. I was like, oh my God. It was like a little gift that yours, literally bought me time.

I was like, oh my God. It was like a little gift that was just fueling the tank. How old am I? What are you saying is that I'm really old? No, me. And that you were a kid and I was already a senior. Fuck that, I was 28 and didn't have a SAG card or an agent.

Time was ticking. That made my year. The fact that you had come to that show and you were so nice, you're such a generous dude. And then a couple years ago, we were in England visiting Kristen on a movie. We hung out with Stanley. And Stanley Cucci, who we had interviewed.

Invited us over for dinner. And you were there, and I exploded with excitement. We were cracking up. Oh. I remember you and Stanley were giggling like 12 year olds. Monoctiously so perhaps. Yes, yes. Do you remember that Dax did a reading of Stanley's book? and Stanley were giggling like 12 year olds. Monoctiously so perhaps. Yeah. Yes, yes.

Do you remember that Dax did a reading of Stanley's book at the dinner? That's, of course he did. Yeah. What did I do wrong? That scared you. I see you're a little traumatized from it. Yeah, it scared me.

What was my take? I had a take? I think you were doing a voice and you were just really doing a full reading and I thought it was a big swing. Was he doing a Stanley impersonation? I thought it was a big swing. That's a big swing at a dinner, yeah.

The thing I most remember is you telling me about a time in your youth that you went to a sex club in San Francisco and that was on roller skates. Yeah, good segue to White Lotus, yeah. You said you got to this club and you're like, whoa, there's a lot going on, there's a lot going on, then all of a sudden this dude on roller skates rolls by and he's fucking jacking himself, wallies. That's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. Then all of a sudden this dude on roller skates rolls by and he's fucking jacking himself.

Wally's roller skates. That's a true story. He was just roller skating. There was a person with a little tiny hammer and a chisel. Oh, just abusing their genitals. What was the title? Like what was the event?

Did it have a name? Well, no. I'd bumped into a friend of mine from like elementary school and he said, I'm doing this thing. I got a new thing I'm doing. I got a new thing. I have a new hobby. Do you know what I'm into now?

Hey, check it out. Led Zeppelin, no. He said, check it out. And I said, oh, that's kind of cool. It was just not what I imagined really. I thought it would be kind of sexier. Yeah. And it wasn't so sexy.

I was just like, yeah, no, this is not for me. Don't you find that where the rubber meets the road with a lot of this stuff, it's not what you're hoping for. It sounds good. Look at that, speaking of sex clubs. Okay, that was a trap. That was a trap? That book isn't there normally.

Oh, is that right? And I brought it in and I said to Monica, Talk about therapy. This is ointment, and I wanna see if the fly flies into it because I have some bizarre hunch you also like crumb. Well, yeah, sure. What's not to like? Don't be stupid.

I mean, it's pretty great. Yeah, crumb's the greatest. Okay. Okay. Back to this dinner. The dinner was so fun. I had so much fun. I remember laughing a lot, yeah. Another obsession of mine has been Goggins for a while.

He's great. Could you be happier than anybody's having the moment? I'm so happy, you know, and we'd done Cowboys and Aliens together. You met him there? Yeah, we met on that. Okay. I don't know if I've ever worked with a friend that closely.

So when we did White Lotus, it was really cool to have a shorthand with somebody like that. But I did wonder with the white lotus scene in particular, does being really good friends help or hurt? Because it could definitely go either way. It definitely helped because we had to play friends. Yes. And I just could make him laugh. He could make me laugh really quickly.

Was it improv? It wasn't improvised. No, but there were a couple of little things to kind of like tiny, tiny things. Yeah. Mike's too good a writer. you don't wanna mess with it. Have so many people come up to you about that monologue more than you would have expected. It's kind of crazy, yeah, you know? And I was ambivalent

because I was worried I wasn't gonna be prepared because I was tired. And I've been doing all these monologues in the South African film. You have a 10 page monologue in that one? Yeah, that's right. How do you know that? Because it's my job to learn about you for today.

But I told you this will be the last time I know this much about you. Yes,, that's right. How do you know that? Cause it's my job to learn about you for today. But I told you this will be the last time I know this much about you. Yes, and that's it. And I remember I actually went to Billy Crudup, who I've gone to before to get help on that monologue. So I was a little tuned up, but I was then, I was worried I wasn't going to be able to get off book in time.

And then Leslie said, I'll help you. And we went on safari and she got me off book and we saw, you know, while you're looking at animals. Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty cool. Wow. Were you in South Africa? We were in South Africa. So we were in this place called Kruger. Yeah. You've been safari? Yeah. Tanzania, Tanzania. Okay. So that's not gorillas. That's more cheetahs and elephants. Lion. Yeah. Oh, that stuff. So that's what we did. Classic stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

You got close and stuff. Oh yeah, terrifyingly so. Terrifying, yeah. Was Leslie at ease and you were terrified? She was at ease, I was terrified. It's the same. Yeah, no question. The first time you see a lion,

we're in the little Jeep and it's just Kristen and I in the driver room and all of a sudden the lion's walking, it's walking and I'm like, this is really cool, this is really cool. Now it's getting really close to the thing. I'm like, I don't know about this. There's no doors.

And then the fucking lion walks up and you know, it's 24 inches away and it turns its head and it looks me in the eyes. And I'm like, oh my God, this thing's just jumping, eat me. And Kristen is delighted and not terrified. And I was terrified all the time. I don't know what that says about either of you. What's that phrase, the gift of fear? You know, I don't know. But then maybe, you know. I don't know what that says about either of you. What's that phrase, the gift of fear?

You know, I don't know. Oh, right. But then maybe, you know, I don't know. Women walk around this earth with predators everywhere. We are used to it. That's a very good point. And you guys, and now you're around a real predator. That's really interesting.

Real top of the food chain shit. That's very interesting. I never thought of food chain shit. That's very interesting. I never thought of that. Yeah, someone pointed out like that, a woman often gets into a small metal box with another animal that's two X their size. Yeah. That's how we live. That's an elevator ride.

And I'm like, yeah, that's totally true, man. We had a koala bear and I was like, you know, they have like, don't they, they famously have chlamydia too. Oh, sure. Yeah. And they they? Would they famously have a chlamydia? Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. They have claws, big claws and chlamydia.

And I was like, this thing's going to eat my face and give me chlamydia. Yeah. And Leslie was just laughing at me. I'm an idiot, you know? Okay. So you did that. You worked on the monologue. Yeah.

I sort of pitched some things to Mike White. He went for some of it and then yeah, just went in there and did it. Shaved my head and put a tattoo on and some scars and that was it. It's none of our business, but how many takes, what realm of takes was that? You know, they had an ear wig. I said, prepare an ear wig just in case I get in trouble. And then I didn't need it. I did it in one take.

Wow. And then I think we continue to do one takers, you know, and not break it up too much. Mike's just amazing. You know, he's like a Patty Chayefsky kind of writer. You're tremendous in it Thanks, and I'm sure you've been getting a lot of love but I hope people give Goggins the love if we can't cut this as far as that. Yeah If you're on your own in a payphone giving that monologue, I think it's a different experience. No, absolutely. He was having a great time He was so happy to have somebody there.

He'd been kind of, you know, he was Amy Lou and they had a different thing. Their thing was more combative. And he probably needed a fucking break from that because it cannot be fun to be a dick to your co-star in every scene for months. Yeah, he was definitely having a tough time and Walt gets very serious. He gets very into it, you know?

Yeah. And so he needed somebody to kind of like, hey. So the reason I brought him up is that we interviewed him Yeah, he was definitely having a tough time. And Walt gets very serious. He gets very into it, you know? Yeah. And so he needed somebody to kind of like, hey. So the reason I brought him up is that we interviewed him and then I hung out with him on a Sunday. It was so fun. And we're in the hot tub. And then just randomly he says,

and I haven't seen your scene yet. So I don't even know you're in. This is like pre-bad airing. And somehow he says he's friends with you. And I said, oh my God, you know, I had the most fun night ever in England with him. I said, and then I think I texted him too much. I go, I think I really came on too strong.

Not possible. And he goes, no, I bet he just, you know, he's in the clouds sometimes and I bet he doesn't even know he didn't or did respond to you. And I was like, okay, that's really comforting. Did I not respond? Well, intermittently. No, I always respond, even with an I was like, okay, that's really comforting. Did I not respond? Oh, intermittently. No, I always respond, even with an emoji.

You know what's funny is really good with that. Even if it's just an emoji, I respond. Well, when I was texting you yesterday, I realized when I looked at the two previous sexes, they were green. So I'm like, we don't know if greens get to you. Oh, you didn't get it. Yeah, what does that mean?

Cause I got some stuff not going through. I sent some videos to you and Justin and it didn't go through. I think I might need some technical help. And then I wanna own my own, I got a little carried away with, leaving you voice messages of me just going, how much you did you rash go? My favorite line you've ever said in a movie.

That's right. As George Bush. And so anytime I be thinking of it, I would just send you a voice memo of me going, oh, that's right. I bet you did you, Raish. Anyhow, how are you gonna respond to that? I love a voice memo.

I love a weird voice memo though. Somebody just called him walkie talkies, voice memos. Yeah. Are you a voice memo person or you're not? I'm getting into it. I think it's with age. Not wanting to type? Yeah, laziness.

Well, this phone is like really small. You got an old one? Yeah, you gotta like really type. Well, yours is that bad boy. I mean, it's old. I think that's maybe what's going on. Is that a seven? A lot of stuff wasn't going through today.

A seven. I think I tried to send you and Justin the picture of Justin a couple of times. Justin Long. Yes, yes, Justin Long. Justin Long is also due in ripe and deserving of the same moment Goggins is having because I think there'll be a moment

where people will look back and go, oh right, he was perfect in every single thing he did. He is, he's awesome. So I'm just flagging him as he deserves the Goggins moment. Me too, I'm flagging him too. The impersonations he can do. Oh yeah. His impersonations are incredible.

Is Matt Dillon? Yes. Matt Dillon is astounding. Did he do Matt Dillon too? He did Matt Dillon. He did a movie with Matt Dillon. He did it to Matt Dillon on the talk show. I don't think it went great.

He can do Vince Vaughn so well, who's so hard to do. I know. He's so fucking funny, Vince. I saw him at this hotel. We met for lunch at this Four Seasons and he starts doing this bit with the waiter. He's like, we want the special. Can you get the special? The chef wants to give us the special. You know, the special thing. The waiter's like, I'm sorry sir. You know, the chef asked to give us the special

meal. You know what I'm talking about. Make it right. Make right, make everything good. Make it right, make it good for us. And he keeps saying, and the waiter doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. At the end he gets the bill, he says, it's free, right? He gets the bill and he keeps giving the waiter the slukling. This should have been free. Oh God. He's hysterical.

Okay, Bay Area. Yes. 1968, you arrive. Yes. November 5th? November 5th, 1968. Okay, Bay Area. Yes. 1968, you arrive. Yes. November 5th? November 5th, 1968. Okay, we welcome you. Nixon was elected, yes.

Oh, on that day? Yes, yes. Oh, wow. I don't know if that's fortuitous or a harbinger of bad things to come. Probably. Mom and dad are both actors. Yes, and my dad dropped out kind of early.

My mother became a painter and my dad did a lot of jobs. We moved to San Francisco in the Tenderloin. I don't know if you know what the Tenderloin is. Kind of a sketchy. Gnarly, right, in the 70s and 80s? Yeah, my dad had a couple of weapons pulled on him and he was mugged and sort of after nine, he got remarried, he had a better job,

but he was a union organizer for a while. He drove a cab and I met Harvey Milk in San Francisco when I was like eight. Really? We lived in the Castro for a bit, we lived in the Fillmore, the Hay, you know, everywhere. He relocated to Culver City? He did, he's got Culver City and Santa Monica, yeah.

Because his bride lives in Santa Monica. Yeah, yeah, he met her at a Bernie Sanders rally. Oh my gosh. They're a groovy couple. I just think that's weird to have two actor parents. It is a little weird, although my dad quit so early. You never saw him act? He quit when I was five, yeah.

Okay. So I don't really, although he's gotten back into acting a little bit, taking classes just for fun, and then my mom's a painter now. She's wild, I mean, I did plays with her when I was like a kid. Yeah, she classes just for fun. And then my mom's a painter now. She's wild. I mean, I did plays with her when I was like a kid. Yeah, she took you on stage when you were 10,

did improv in the village. I mean, I wouldn't call it real improv, but it was, yeah. But she taught me the basic rules, you know, always say yes, listen. Yes and, you're smarter than you think you are. Isn't that one of them? Be a pro at everything, an expert, they say. So they got divorced when you were five.

Yeah, they got divorced when I was five. She moved to New York City. That was it, my dad had a lot of girlfriends, moved around a lot. So you were bopping back and forth. In the summer I'd go visit my mom for a month and that's how I did a play with her. Were you running around and exploring New York

as a little kid? Yeah, I was. It was pretty wild. I was talking to Zazie Beats and her mom. Michael Pinyet was on this movie in South Africa and Zazie and all these great people at Juno Temple. But I remember talking to her, she lived in Chelsea, it wasn't Chelsea back then. Her mother was from there

and I'm talking to her mother about the 70s and I realized I'm Zazie's mother's age. Yeah. Oh wow. And then I was like, wow, okay, that's what's happening. I could be all their fathers, June or everyone. Yeah, you're the same age as Zazie's mom. But when you're talking to Zazie, you and I are in a similar situation,

which is we have our whole lives, I'm presuming, flirting with women. Sure, sure. It's why I get out of bed. Sure, of course. Well, Zazie and I, in this cartoon, are romantic. She's the I get out of bed. Sure, of course. Well Zazie and I in this cartoon are romantic. She's the fox, I'm the wolf. And then I'm like, wait a minute, what?

Yes, hold on. I'm how much older than your mother? What's happening? There's two themes I want to explore in this ride of ours. Let's do it. I want to explore charm. If I have to pee in this thing, is that going to be, how's that going to go down?

That'll dovetail nicely into my themes. I want to talk about charm. If I have to pee in this thing, is that gonna be, how's that gonna go down? That'll dovetail nicely into my themes. I wanna talk about charm. And I wanna talk about fuel. Yes. Yes, the fuel of life. For me, from very young, these are parallels I've noticed when I was researching you.

I know my explanation. So dancing. Yeah. I started dancing. Yes, love dancing. Dance immediately in junior high at the dances and immediately realize I'm the only boy dancing all these girls like this.

It's a way to meet girls. That's exactly right. I mean, I was not, I'm a faker baker dancer. When I did Fosse, I had to really learn some stuff. Right. So my shit's really like faker baker. I implore everyone to go and watch there's these montages of you entering Phalan.

Oh yeah. You see those are the same moves. If you Google, if you look at it, it's just the same boring moves. No, you keep upping it. I was watching it this morning and what's so funny is you're upping it, you're upping it, you're upping it.

And I was saying, I was saying out loud to Chris, I'm like, I don't know where he's gonna go with the next appearance and you come out with a fucking cane because there's nowhere to go. Yeah, that was a fluke. I stumbled into a Willy Wonka entrance by accident. Yeah, it's definitely a way to get attention.

I think that I've always pictured myself kind of like a Chris Walken build. You're sort of like that. I always wanted to be like a lanky Tommy Hearns, Chris Walken kind of. Stretch limo. Yeah, and I always pictured myself that way, but actually I'm not. I actually have T-Rex arms and, if I were to throw out a jab in my mind, I'm Tommy Hearns or something,

but actually no, I'm like this guy. Right, you're more Sugar Ray. Yeah, I'm more like the guy Mayweather knocked out. So I think I have delusions of grandeur. I don't know where that came from. But there's a stubbornness where you go like, I refuse to accept this. Yeah. And so how do I maneuver around?

Cause that's not the vision I have for my life. But when I look back on a lot of the actors that I admire, Nicholson Baccino, De Niro, they're not big guys. And I think with that comes the gift of fury. And I think that that's a good gift, like a John Malkovich or somebody like that, who I just worked with. And Totoro and Gary Oldman, they have the gift of fury.

You're not gonna accept whatever it is you've been dealt. I like the idea, you know, they have the gift of fury. You're not going to accept whatever it is you've been dealt. I like the idea of you saying, I think it's very honest, just that you walk around kind of with the vision of who you are. And then sometimes you look in the mirror and it's like, oh, wow, that's actually not. I think I have that too. It's like, oh, I think I look like that. But then I look in the mirror and it's like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. I better not look in the mirror. I'm better off just living in my head. Unless you look in the mirror and it's like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, I better not look in the mirror. I'm better off just like living in my head. I lessen less look in the mirror, let me tell you.

But yeah, you have to be slightly delusional to be successful. And by the way, you can infect other people's view of you with that belief in yourself. Totally, totally. That is like, yeah, we don't like articulate or break down what are the ingredients of confidence, but that's what it is.

Like I've created a reality bubble, I've sucked you into it. And now you're not sure either if I'm a five or a nine. Exactly. Right? Exactly. So you, I mean, there's so many things I would love to talk about. You go to a Stoner high school.

Yes. Kind of an outwardly bound thing. Yeah, I did urban pioneers. That was kind of like an outward bound. It had a reputation for being for the flunkies. And I was flunking out of high school for sure, cutting class, smoking pot, and I heard about Urban Pioneers.

It was supposed to be kind of rough, but the guy, Wayne MacDonald, kind of changed my life in a way, because we did these hiking trips for two weeks, but the thing about the hiking trips, you had to solicit this food, so you had to go to Pizza Hut and ask them to give you 10 cans of spaghetti sauce. I think the rule was you couldn't,

even if you had money to buy the spaghetti sauce on the fly, you had to solicit. So it taught you to hustle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Interesting. And it was a cool lesson. He says, if you don't solicit this food,

you're not gonna have margarine when you want it on the trip. You're gonna need that margarine. Yeah. Believe you me. You need that loaf of bread. There's gonna come a time where you're gonna want that margarine.

Yeah. So, you know, you had to get the food, man. Yeah. You wanted to like have a marshmallow to roast. Right. So you get the like real, real acting bug at that point. I went back to the acting program. I auditioned for The play I watched Malkovich and death of a salesman on TV and I just decided to do that monologue I got the play but then I got a movie in San Francisco in San Francisco

I got a lead in a film Oh my god film and then I decided from that, with the confidence from doing the film, to go to New York and sort of pursue acting. And that's kind of what happened. I lived with my mom the first year. Then I started going to Sublette to Sublette, working in restaurants,

and then I started getting commercials. And I got a couple of episodics, like Equalizer and Longhorn. You did all the shows every New York actor does I look at your resume all that shit NYPD Yeah, and then I didn't know what really what the hell I was doing and I went to a summer program I did the summer program with Bill. He says do the two years. You know, I'm very busy, you know, I'm like 24 Yeah, I'm doing he's like, you know, I got this Colgate commercial, you'm doing law and order. He's like, just do the two year, it'll go by like that, just do it.

And so I did the two year program and changed my life. And it was Meisner. Still to this day, I don't, I read an actor prepare Stanislavski, but when people say Meisner, I'm not positive. I know what it means. Did you do any Meisner, did you do any training? Yes, cause I studied theater in college.

And so yeah, we had to do Meisner and stuff. But for people who don't know what Meisner is. Yeah, yeah, so Stella Adler, you know, Strasburg, Meisner went to Russia, they met Stanislavski, they came back and they divided. Meisner's about the what if and Strasburg was about what happened for an emotional prep if so.

But Meisner's argument to Strasburg is like, well, what are you gonna do if you're a a heroin addict or your character shoots yourself in the face? Like, what are you going to really shoot yourself in the face? So method, meaning Strasburg, Meisner would argue that using your imagination is more practical. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. This is Nick. And this is Jack. We're best friends, ex-finance guys,

and resident 90s experts. And every week on our podcast, The Best Idea Yet, we're bringing you the untold stories behind your favorite products. For instance, can you guess which billion dollar fashion company went viral, thanks to a rhinestone covered tracksuit? Or which cartoon turned four turtles into a global toy empire by accident?

It started as a joke. Last one. Which cold beverage was so hated by Starbucks they actually ended up acquiring it? Spoiler! The Frappuccino. Howard Schultz apparently thought cold coffee was super lame, and then he bought it. From Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to Juicy Couture to the Orange Mocha Frappuccino. Join us every week to learn how your favorite things

got made. Follow the best idea yet on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry+. And if this podcast lasts longer than 45 minutes, call your doctor. Ha ha ha ha.

["Wonderful Music"] Tell me about Idiocracy and you and Justin and Maya Rudolph are fucking phenomenal. I love that movie and I know Judd a little bit, but how did you come up with that character? How did Justin, you guys had scenes together, right? We had no scenes together, but we hung out a bunch on the movie. That's like where we met and we would go out. You're hysterical in that. Oh my God, thank you. So what do you do?

How did you prepare for that? And I wanna ask Justin the same thing. I had done a version of that character, Frito, on stage at the grounds. And I was doing an episode of King of the Hill. I got along really well with Mike Judge, and then two scripts of his were floating around. One of them was 3001 is what it was called.

I read it and I said to him, I would love to come in and read this role for Frito. But he was written as like kind of morbidly obese. And he's like, well, I kind of had someone else in mind, you know, that wasn't, yeah, I don't know if that's the one for you. I begged him to let me come in. And I did Frito, this character I'd already done before.

And he was just like, oh, oh, I could just hear him laughing, right? I was like, okay, that's all I was hoping. I'm like, yeah, I character I had already done before. And he was just like, oh, oh. I could just hear him laughing, right? I was like, oh, okay, that's all I was hoping. I'm like, yeah, I'm not the dude you wrote. It's not the right guy, but fuck, he's laughing. And that's all I really want. And then he cast me. And then I gained like 25 pounds in three weeks.

Cause the guy had to be eating fructose and shit all the time or something. Yeah, flatulence. I think he ate flatulence. Oh, God. How did you come up with the character for Groundlings? How did you come up with that initially? So god-

What was the impetus for that? She's so mad. I'm not mad. Are you mad? I'm not mad at all, but we do have to learn about you, but that's fine, let's hear about- Yeah, yeah. All right, all right, I wanna talk about

your Meisner experience. No, God, no! Well, no, we can turn it around on me, it's fine. But I'm just saying, it helps me. We still have to go through your entire Meisner. Okay, sorry, what do you wanna know? But just quickly, Groundlings, it just came out of a suggestion from the audience.

No, no, we also wrote sketches, right? So half the show, like you came to an only improv show. Okay. But generally the show there, the Sunday Company, the Saturday Company, it's all sketches and then you do like three improv sets only improv show. Okay. But generally the show there, the Sunday company, the Saturday company, it's all sketches and then you do like three improv sets during the show. But mostly it's all written.

It's all Saturday night live like sketches. And so the first time I ever did it was with Melissa McCarthy and we worked at a grocery store and I was a bagger and she was a cashier and we were falling in love. And you can imagine Melissa McCarthy. That's so good. It was so fun. Was she a dummy too?

Absolutely, yeah. I was like, I got a tape deck in my truck. You wanna listen to my cassettes? She talked like that too? She had her own, she had the female version of Freya. You guys just said we're gonna do a skit. We were gonna go to the grocery store and we're falling in love.

And we're stupid. Yeah, we're stupid as it gets. And we're made for each other. That's fucking amazing. And she is so excited to go listen to some cassette tapes In my truck, but all of this is based on the dude in high school who always talked about his uncle Who was a tow truck driver? I mean, that's where it really comes from Wow is a guy. It's very exaggerated, but this

What is it she just had Goggins look on her face she was gone there's like a half smile What is it? We wrap had Goggins look on her face. She was going, there's like a half smile. What is it? She was like, wrap it up. She's telling me to wrap it up. Oh, she's telling you to wrap it up. Okay, okay. I guess the show's not about me. He's normally not supposed to say out loud

the thing I'm projecting, but he can't help himself. Now that we're on camera, it's fun to call her. Anyways, this guy was just always like, my uncle has a tow truck and I went out with him and we hooked up a brand new Trans Am. Wow, that is fantastic. There are real people out there. I don't know that I've ever had a new character since high school.

I just accumulated all these kids I met and I was doing impersonations. Sure, the robot. The robot's new, that's true. He has a character, a robot character, it's very cute. What's the robot character? I am a robot. And I always talk like this.

I wanna be a real boy. He wants to be a real boy. The robot wants to be a real boy. It's really sad. It's a Pinocchio story. But he's got it cold and he's a robot. It's angelic. Okay, we gotta get to you.

You go to New York. Because you do have this really, really interesting section because you're a little older like me when you finally start working consistently and you actually know, okay, this is gonna be a viable thing. Because your kind of breakthrough is like 28, you did a movie where you got a lot of attention.

Yeah, well, it's weird. And this happened to my ex-girlfriend, Sarita. She was bartending and she'd done a movie with Denzel Washington and she got fucking recognized and she was fucking bartending. Yeah. And I was like, this is weird. And then it happened to me, I was bussin' tables

and I got recognized for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I'm like, would you like some more bread, sir? Yeah, yeah. That's a weird experience. I mean, you have to go back to the restaurant. It's humbling, right? Yeah, that's really humbling. You know, there's that story about Dustin Hoffman

getting in the unemployment line after shooting The Graduate. It's crazy. You know, because not everything pays, you know? About 28, 29, I was starting to work more as an actor. And were you busy in Labyrinth during that time? So Labyrinth is this theater started by Philip Seymour Hoffman. Well, actually, no, it was started by Paul Calderon and his wife and Johnny Ortiz and then Phil came in later and I was one of the first gringos in there and then Phil came along and then

he kind of reinvented it with Steven Gergis and Johnny Ortiz. They kind of took it over. It is what it is today. And how did you get on with Phil? Oh, Phil was a mentor and a close friend, and he directed me in a play. You know, he was always the sober guy. I was just cheeseburgers, cigarettes, and coffee, usually.

And then, you know, that snuck up on us. And he was grumpy? He was grumpy, but in an endearing way. Yeah. He had a great laugh. You know, he loved Justin. What are the three of you somehow in like... He came up to Williamstown to direct a reading.

Justin wanted to read art and Bradley came. And Bradley was already doing a play there. And Phil said, yeah, I'll direct it. And we're like, really? And he's like, yeah, I'll come up, I'll direct it. He just wanted to hang out. I remember we got in a car, you know, the fart app, you know? You ever seen the fart app?

You know the fart app. On the iPhone, it makes every kind of different fart noises. Oh, that's cute. So Justin hooked it up to the car speaker in Williamstown. And, wait, this is turned down. That's the brown mosquito. Brown mosquito.

This is called burrito maximo. Oh yeah. Oh god. Burrito maximo. This is called burrito maximo. Oh yeah. Oh god. This is called laundry day. Now you know why it's called laundry day. So we hooked it up to the car speaker and Phil was in the back and he would just ask people randomly questions.

Hey, do you know where the pizza hut is? And they go, yeah, it's right there. And he just pushed the button. And it was, you know, cause the car speaker was really loud. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's right. And he just pushed the button. And it was, you know, cause the car speaker was really loud. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Phil had this very infectious laugh and he would laugh so fucking hard.

Oh. Everyone was kind of intimidated by Phil, but he was a brilliant director. He directed us in a play and he was, the things he would say, Eric Pagosi and I had a scene together and he would say these things to us that I never forgot. Eric and I had a scene where he was the devil and I was Judas. It was a funny scene. So it got a lot

of laughs. And Phil was like, you know, I know you guys get a lot of, you're getting a lot of laughs and that's all great, but I kind of want to, I want to make the audience uncomfortable. You know, that's what theater is about. And if you want to get laughs, that's cool. You know, that's what theater's about. And if you want to get laughs, that's cool. But, you know, he says, Sam, you're playing Judas Iscariot. You know, he's a danger to himself and others. When you come out, you're drunk. I want you to make the audience a little uncomfortable.

I want you to, like, I want them to, like, maybe want to leave. Be a little scared. Yeah. And that was a great thing to say to an actor because it's kind of an impossible goal. Right. So I mean, Phil had a way of really inspiring you.

Back to the charm thing. I heard you tell a story about Bill. So the acting teacher, the Meisner teacher. Yeah, yeah. He was an infamous teacher, like a very famous. And that's where I met my coach, Terry Knickerbocker. Right, which is the most delightful story ever in showbiz. I love this story, we'll get to it.

But you talk about Bill at one point, basically saying like, you're fucking lazy. Oh yeah, you said that to me. Yes, and this is back to the charm thing. No one's gonna feel bad for anyone who's charming. I'm not asking for that. But I definitely think you have to be more self-policing if you're charming if you can kind of get away with murder That's interesting because you can get away with being lazy

Sure, and so it's weirdly like this wonderful gift you get given but can also spell your demise It was a good lesson and he said yes So lazy like pull it together and it had a big effect on me. Around this time, when you get the first thing, you're 29, in the 90s still, you had met Terry. Terry Knickerbocker had filled in and taught some of the classes. That's right, yeah. And you got along really well with him.

Yeah. And you asked him to help you on this audition. Yeah. But this relationship you developed with Terry, you have not, not used him for a project since. Yeah, that's right, yeah. That's a very special relationship. That's like 26 years of doing that.

I read an interview with him talking about you guys working together. My understanding of what you guys do is, even for the White Lotus thing that we all saw. You sit down with this thing, you're not an addict, right? So we start with the fact that you don't, you, Sam Rockwell doesn't know what it's like to be an addict. You're also not a Buddhist or an Eastern philosophy.

No. So you and Terry's job is to start anchoring these details, particularism, what is it called? Yeah, particularizations as if substitution, sure. So you and Terry have done this for 26 years, and I'm assuming when you're going through it together, you're exploring your own history and things that you can attach emotionally

that resemble the thing. Yeah. And so these sessions with Terry have to be really therapeutic, no? Oh yeah, and he's a big therapy guy too. Are you free associating when you work with Terry? Absolutely. And then letting everything out, like, oh wow, that's and he's a big therapy guy too. Are you free associating when you work with Terry? Absolutely.

And then letting everything out, like, oh wow, that's weird, that does remind me of blank. Absolutely. Like very intimate. So is it fair to say Terry might know you in a way better than any person alive? Yes, and I him. Now as a super fan of yours, as I said I was,

and I followed everything, I had periods as a fan of yours where I was like, Oh no, why isn't this guy getting what he deserves? What is your emotional ride through all the highs and lows? Yeah, I've had some, a lot of my shit's been afterlife. Like I saw moon and I was like, well, here we go. Motherfuckers it's on. What a performance. Jesse James, galaxy quest had afterlife. I thoughters. It's on, what a performance. Jesse James Galaxy Quest had Afterlife.

I thought that was gonna be like Ghostbusters. We went to the premiere and it did okay. But like Jesse James bombed. Even American Beauty beat out the Green Mile. But I've been lucky a couple, like Vice and Charlie's Angels and stuff like that. But they're like moments and then there's these lows and then there's these highs and these lows

and then Three billboards comes out and then you win an Academy Award. And again, to me at that, if I'm you, and you're 49 at that point maybe. That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you have a lot of these moments where it was like, okay, well finally I can just take a breath and it's established and I'm safe?

I mean, every fucking day, you know? You're like, ah, can't I just relax? Yeah, when are we gonna coast a little bit? You can, as you know. As you get older, taking the working out stuff, for example, you gotta work even harder. You gotta memorize lines even harder as you get older. I think you wanna feel safe.

You wanna go, oh, I have finally earned the right. You're never safe, as you know, right? You're never fucking safe. It's all an illusion of safety. It's all an illusion. Yeah, it is. You're such an artist. you know, right? You're never fucking safe. It's all an illusion of safety. It's all an illusion. Yeah, it is. You're such an artist. I don't say that lightly.

I don't think of many people as artists. You're such an artist. I could have this fantasy where it's like, oh no, he's never given a fuck. He finds another interesting thing to do. He focuses on that. And then another interesting thing. Some of them pop, some of them don't.

He doesn't care. He probably isn't motivated by money. Like I can create that fantasy about you, but I don't know if that's actually the reality. I'm ambitious, whatever that means, you know, like you're ambitious to motivated by money. Like I can create that fantasy about you, but I don't know if that's actually the reality. I'm ambitious, whatever that means, you know, like you're ambitious to do good work. But I will say I have turned down money and I have said no.

I mean, that's the only power you have is to say no. Is that hard for you to do? Of course. I was unable to do it. When they threw money at me, I always said yes. And then I paid the price ultimately for that. Did you? You feel you paid the price for that?

Yeah, because I knew I shouldn't do a thing originally. That's why I said no to begin with. And then they threw enough money at me and I said, yeah, I'll do it for that. What if I never work again? I need that money. All the rules have changed too. I think sometimes you can be too precious too, you know.

What do you hope people, if they had to finish this sentence about you as an actor, let's say you're dead, okay? Sorry, for a long way. Yes, Monica, I'm dead. And people say he was blank. God, I had a good answer for that. Don't we always have a good answer

on your gravestone kind of thing? And then I always forget. I think I know what you would want. What's that? Either he was adventurous. Yeah, that's pretty good. I like that. Which is also

You'd want that too, right? Slash brave. Yes, slash brave. Or dangerous. I don't think you, do you want dangerous? Well, every actor needs a little bit of danger, I think. What about you as a person? Forget acting.

Me as a person? Yeah. Well, you know, I'm a pretty courteous, I'm a nice guy, but I mean that's a good question I don't know the answer to that. What would you want? He was so playful That's pretty good. I'm here to play I came to this planet to play and the more we can play the better Absolutely, fucking lately. Yeah, cuz it's a beatdown. Everyone that you love is gonna die All the shits gonna happen. You ever see Manny Pacquia hit the mitts with Freddie Roach?

He's smiling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The relationship with those guys is really interesting. Freddie Roach is so fascinating. Freddie Roach is amazing. And they're kind of patting that boxer on the head like they're kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's play somehow. It's play. You had a fun thing you're talking about in an interview you're saying. People are so shocked when actors act. Yes, that's a good topic actually. I find that fascinating. I totally agree with you, but. Christian Bale, like, that's a shocker?

Why is that a shocker? Yeah. When they act out on set, you're saying. Yeah, you pay somebody to essentially be a child. Yes. And then you're shocked when they act like a child. It's like, what do you expect, man? One minute you're laughing, you're crying, you act like a child. It's like, what do you expect, man? One minute you're laughing, you're crying.

You're like a little infant. You're being paid to be an infant. Yes, and then cut, and then somehow magically you feel like you did on Saturday morning. It's a little preposterous that that's the expectation. It's insane. I was doing Poltergeist, you know, it's basically an abduction film

where they abduct your daughter, but it's a ghost. I did some scene where I was crying about my daughter and then I couldn't turn it off and then I had to go. That was a nice cry. And that happens a lot, yeah. I had to go and let it all hang out. Sometimes that happens. Add in, I think the thing people don't necessarily realize

is that everyone else's job is mechanical enough that it can be done. And you had a rehearsal. So cameras already done the Dolly move 12 times. They have marks, they have all their settings. They're gonna do a good job. You're going to fail at your job many times in front of these hundred people.

That's right. You're gonna fail over and over again. Someone's gonna come talk to you. By the way, they fail too. You know, it's out of focus. But that's why after you failed eight times and you finally are getting it on nine and a guy drops a flag into the shot,

it's a bummer because you're coming from fear so often, you think that was the time. Absolutely, you're coming from fear. Alison Lohman on Matchstick Men, she shot a scene. She had to cry and cry and then it was out of focus and they had to go back and that happens. Violet Davis did that on Doubt with Phil and Meryl Streep. That happened to her, she had to shoot something again,

very emotional. How did you get on with Nic Cage in that Matchstick Men? We had a great time. I feel like you two are both equally weird in a way that could either be flammable or really wonderful. Well, you know, it's funny. You mentioned Vince and Justin and I, we were hanging out. Like we were doing these Elvis impersonations a lot.

We would stay up late and do this improv that Elvis was at the parole board or something. And we would switch to take turns playing Elvis. Yeah. Yeah. And Vince was always the best Elvis. And at the time, so I started doing basically Vince's version of Elvis for Nick Cage. And he had just gotten with Elvis's daughter. Oh, right. And he's obsessed with Elvis.

Yeah. And he married her on the film, during the film. They broke up. So I realized, oh, maybe this is not cool, but he was cool with it. He was laughing. We gotta talk about bad guys too. I love bad guys.

Bad guys one is awesome. Yeah, it's fun. As animation stuff, it's fun. Yeah, the premise of part two is they're now good guys. They're now good guys. They're on probation and then hijinks ensue, yeah. And you have to be bad guys again. Yes, and it's all Danielle's fault.

Yeah, we can't name it bad guys and not have you guys be bad. Yeah. Okay, you talk about walking a lot. Yeah, we can't name it bad guys and not have you guys be bad. Yeah. Okay, you talk about walking a lot. Yeah. Who are your favorites right now? Who are you horny for right now? Christopher Walken always.

Speaking of horned up, I forgot about the horned up elephant on the safari who almost killed us. Oh, tell me. He was in heat, I guess, apparently. Oh no. Everything was a little scary, but pretty pleasant elephants.

And then on the way to the airport, this very angry elephant came and they said, well, he's in heat. It was he dripping from the ears and shit. We didn't get that close, thank God, but he was coming towards the car and apparently couldn't find a mate. He was tearing down trees.

Oh no, he's like an incel. He was all horned up. He's an incel. Yeah, exactly. He's a 10,000 pound incel. Incel-ifent. Incel-ifent. No, he was angry.

But yeah, Chris Walken, John Malkovich, Juno Temples, fantastic. Oh, what a monster. You know, Penya, I had a great time with Penya. He's so good. I read the monologue with Penya, actually. We were in South Africa, and he was like, you gotta do this.

I have a personal question about Leslie, because she just came up and it just made me think, first of all, how did you guys meet? I don't know if I know this story. We met at the Shet, it's so Hollywood. We were Shet, so we're mine. Like the Shet tow? She likes that.

I love that, that's a meat cube. Did you get the bolognese? That's a meat cube. Wait, huh? No, we used to eat the bolognese, yeah. Do they still have that there? Yeah, they do. Yeah, we met in the lobby, and back then,

you know, it was a little sketchy, and there was a guy named Will, I think, and he introduced us. I knew her from somewhere. It was like that Dreamweaver moment and we saw each other eye contact. And then I realized it was Talladega and stuff. And then I heard she studied at Bill's studio.

And so I was like, oh, thank God she's not a shitty actress. Right. Sure. Because, you know, I like this girl, so. Yeah, yeah. 18 years, you're 18. Is it 18, yeah. That's impressive. That's impressive. You too, right?

Yes, but you travel so much. Extra impressive, I think. But we don't have kids, but we have a dog. And you live in New York? We live in New York. And it was a choice, no kids is a choice? That's a choice, yeah. She just wanted dogs, and I was like,

all right, let's do the dogs. We'll stick with the dogs. We. That's a choice, yeah. She just wanted dogs and I was like, all right, let's do the dogs. We'll stick with the dogs. Stick with the dogs, yeah. Well, my only failure in this is I know there's something juicy with mom, but we do. I know, I wanna know it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I know there's something really juicy.

There's always something juicy with mom. I can feel it. We need to. I mean, look at this. Sorry, one last question. You did Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. Yes. Which is again, this is before you came to see

The End of Groundlings, I'd already seen that. Which by the way, didn't do well initially and George killed it. Yes, great fucking movie. You're phenomenal in it. So for people who don't know, it's based on an autobiography by Chuck Barris, who was the host of The Gong Show.

Did you ever watch The Gong Show? You're too young for that, yeah. Oh, great show. It's a game show as it gets. It's the best show of all time. I wanna find it on YouTube. And the host of the show, Chuck Barris, wrote a book claiming he was a CIA operative and then he had assassinated people.

And then Charlie Kaufman took the book and adapted it into an amazing screenplay. And he stands by this story that he assassinated people while being a host of the Gong Show. He does. You hung out with him a ton leading up to it. George gave me a video camera and said, just go live with the guy.

Wow. And he was open to that. Oh, he loved it. And then Mary, his wife, yeah, we hung out tons. He loved Les Paul. The guitarist? Yeah, he loved the duo and then he would air guitar and he did all the lines for me.

Are you allowed to say what your kind of conclusion was? We don't think he really killed people. I think he had a nervous breakdown. Okay. And felt probably that although he created the dating game and he did a lot of cool shit, maybe didn't feel good about things and he probably made stuff up.

But then again, sometimes I wonder, cause sometimes he would say stuff arresting and you'd kind of go, wait a minute. I mean, whether it's true or not, he probably believed it. I think he did. I'd say, how many people did you kill? And he'd say, about 10 or 12. And I'd say, really, wow.

You'd say how many people did you kill? Yeah, we got into it. One of the best scenes we had to cut, I think it's deleted scenes, Fred Savage plays the bellhop. There's these great scenes with the bellhop that are just amazing. And I'm like naked with a beard.

It's some of my favorite stuff. It's just the movie was too long, but we had a good time with that. Have you heard Elvis talk about the bellhops? No, what happened with the bellhops? There's a great bit of footage online. Of course he talks about bellhops, yeah. He's on stage and he has missed some shows

and it's at the height of people accusing him of being an opiate addict, which of course he was. Yeah. And he goes, I just wanna tell everybody, I'm healthy. And I'm not doing drugs. I'm doing karate. And you know, he goes, all this comes from those, those little bellhops, Those little rats running around.

He's got this whole- Is this at the end? Yeah, yeah. He might even be laying down on stage on his back telling us. Oh, wow. But he's talking about the bellhops and they're the ones that spread the rumors about him. These little bellhops.

And he's- Wow. Yeah, it's great. That's online. You could watch him. Devin Chu always wanted to play, remember Kurt Russell as Elvis? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's online. You could watch him. Devin Chu always wanted to play. Remember Kurt Russell as Elvis? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's just fascinating character.

My brother and I were obsessed with him when we were little kids. My brother's your age. Me too, yeah. And we would call when we were at a hotel, we would call the front desk over and over again, cause we thought it was so funny that Elvis would shoot his TV sets in hotel rooms. Incredible.

And we just were like, what else did he do? So we would call down to the front desk at like 10 and 15 and go, well, this is the king in 304. I accidentally filled up my bathtub with a lot of sausage. Could you send somebody up to get all this sausage? And it's just like, we try to think of insane things we could call and say had happened in the hotel room. The banana, Cocoa Puff sandwich or whatever.

You gotta see Vince's Elvis. Well, everybody, see see bad guys to that's out August. Yes your delight I told Monica you guys are a delight. I saw you're a ravishing delight calendar and I was giddy. I'm giddy I'm horny for you. I'm worried for you pal attracted to you and I'm so glad you and how horny we for Stanley Tucci Come on. Come on. We love Stanley. All right, well Rockwell, this has been so fun. Thanks for coming. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Get that out of the way.

I had a little accident. I can't wait to take some sausages in my bathtub. All right, meanwhile, everyone see Bad Guys 2. Check it out, man. ["Bad Guys 2 Theme Song"] Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time.

Thank God Monica's here. She's gonna let him have the facts. We have a very special guest. We have the most special guest. My grandson Groot is here. And there's a explanation for this. I don't want people to think I'm now someone who travels around.

Or you're exploiting him. I don't want anyone to think I'm exploiting him or trying to get ratings, although obviously this will be a ratings boom because he's so charismatic and cute. Yeah. But the reason he had to join us for the fact check, I posted a picture of Groot on Instagram

doing a driving lesson in the truck. And I think the perspective of him, because the camera's right in front of him and I'm in the deep back, the comments are almost unanimously, oh my God, Groot is humongous. How did he get lost? How big was the bag holding him

and how would you lose this bag? To the degree I was like, I think people think he's three feet tall now because of the perspective of the photo. So last night we were in bed and I asked Delta if it would be okay if Groot came on a fact check. Groot his size? Yes, to demonstrate his actual size.

And she talked to him and he said, yeah, he's super excited. Okay. And so he had three different outfits that he was debating between. And we landed on this one. We can't move the- Yeah, I'm gonna move the bag. So he has a little bag.

He's a little, it's a little Gelson's bag. I can't wait to show you what's inside his bag. Also, he has a Stanley. He has his own Stanley. And it says Detroit, Michigan on it. How did he get that? I don't know, but he knows, I guess he knows his granddad's from Michigan

or his grandma. And both. But he has his own Stanley that says Detroit, Michigan on it. Yeah, and he has this incredible- He has a great outfit on. He does, he has little coveralls like me. What are they called?

What am I wearing? Shants. Oh, overalls. Overalls. Are they? Yeah, because he, if I unbutton. Oh, okay. I don't wanna unbutton. He's wearing a sweater too.

Delta was very specific about what he was supposed to wear. Don't mess with him. But I can just show you, it's overalls. It's overalls with some frill. Frill, yep, the beautiful red overalls and then a gorgeous cardigan sweater over that. And he has his cool shoes on. And he has his Stanley Cup.

And then, do you wanna know what's in his bag? Yeah, he has a tiny bag from Gelson's, which is a LA grocery store. Yep, he has his Mac, so he can do some work. His little tiny Mac, his size. And it's a real Mac, that looks just like a Mac. And are you ready for this? I didn't even know that this was his favorite book.

Hogwarts, it's a miniature Harry Potter book. Groot loves Harry Potter. Of course Groot loves Harry Potter. Isn't he the sweetest boy? Yes, I love Groot. Yeah,. Of course Groot loves Harry Potter. Of course he does. Isn't he the sweetest boy? Yes, I love Groot. Yeah, he's so special. Yeah.

And if you want at any point to have him with you, just say the word. We got in a little fight earlier because I asked if I could hold Groot and you said we could both hold Groot. Yeah. And I said, but you always get to hold Groot. Why don't I get to hold Groot the whole time?

You wanted the whole time. Yeah.'t I get the whole group the whole time? You wanted the whole time. Yeah. You didn't want to share a group. No, because I don't get enough time with groups. Because I don't like to share. Well, not when I don't get any other time. And we have a little reward for him that Delta made

for when he's done with his appearance. It's a group beer float. A group beer float. That she made, and if you aren't watching, you have to turn this on YouTube right now. To see the group beer float. To see this incredible, she made it out of maple syrup and milk.

He has an entire miniature world. Yes. I mean, he's got his own computer and his Hogwarts book. It's incredible. And his Stanley. I wanna be him. I do too. I said to her last night

when she was trying on his different outfits, I said, look, when I come back in my next life, I would love to be Groot and be under your care because he gets spoiled. Do you have any interesting stories? I do. You do? Okay, me too.

Let's hear yours. I have a few stories. Okay. I think I'd like to hold Groot for this story. Okay, great, yeah, yeah, yeah. Come here, Groot. He's also so soft. Come here, Groot.

He's so soft. He, he, he, he, he. Come here. Put a Stanley over here. In case he gets thirsty. Okay. Have a little bit. Okay.

Let's put it here so it's close. Okay. Okay. Now. This is like practice, Monica. This could be the tipping point for you. Why don't I just get a groove? You might want to just get a groove, yeah.

It seems to be very, God, he's smiling right at me. Yeah, this is preferred. I can't even believe I was fighting to hold him because it's equally as fun just to see him. Yeah, he's so cute to look at. Yeah, he's so happy. Anyway, so I have, I had a ethical dilemma. Ooh, I like ethical dilemmas.

So Callie and I went to a store, as we do, we shop. And we went and got lunch after. And we were on Third Street, which isn't that close, we're not there a lot. Right. So I guess I'm not, I don't know why that's important to me for some reason it's important. I was out of sorts.

I've been there nonstop, just sim. I would never go to Third Street in my real life, but I have to take Lincoln there for several times during the weekend. Yes, I guess I'm just, I was a little out of sorts because I wasn't in my normal spot. Yeah. And we have lunch and we're walking back to our cars

and there is a unhoused woman. Oh my, this is impossible because my story also involves this, but go ahead. Okay, there was an unhoused woman. I mean, there was multiple unhoused people that we passed, but there was one specific woman who was on the opposite side of the street and just, you know, screaming nonsensical words and...

Angry, or, because there's many versions of the screaming. Exactly. Sometimes it's really quite angry. Yes. And sometimes it's just, like, they're talking to someone that can't hear them. Exactly. Yeah.

So angry, yes, angry, but kind of hard to tell. If you just glanced at her, you probably, you might not know she was unhoused or dealing with a mental issue, which she clearly was both. So anyway, we cross the street and then all of a sudden, she is walking towards us. She locks on to you guys. and all of a sudden she is walking towards us. She locks on to you guys.

And is screaming at us. And that, for people who don't live in LA and don't encounter a lot of unhoused people, that's not normally the case. So they are often like screaming or making noise or talking, but they're in their own world. Yeah. And they're never normally,

when they're in that state of mind, engaging with you. So this was very weird. She was looking right at us and she was talking to us. Like we had become the enemy. Oh, oh wow. Uh-huh. Okay. And I- How old was she roughly? I would say 40. Like we had become the enemy. Oh, oh wow. Uh huh. Okay. How old was she roughly?

I would say 40. Okay, so roughly your age. Yeah. Okay. Maybe 42 or something. So quite a bit older than you. A lot older. She is beelining towards us, screaming, screaming,

fuck you, fuck you. And she's so mad, she is so mad. You wanna fight? Oh my God, whoa. Yeah. This is your nightmare. I know. And I, this is my nightmare mixed with,

I'm pretty actually weirdly good in these situations of clicking into how to, I don't freeze. I'm surviving this, you know? And she is gunning at me and Callie was like, okay, okay, like she was kind of engaging with her, like okay, okay. Callie's a little bit more like me? No.

No, she's like you. I think she's like neither, like she's not gonna confront that person, but she's also, like one time in college, her and I were walking in the dark and there was like kind of some crazy guys driving by and they turned around in their car and I just grabbed her and like,

I ran her into this like hooded area. So I take charge. She was just gonna stand there. So then she's coming at me and I left turn and sort of run into this laundromat. And I assumed that Callie was either- You ditched her. You left her on her own.

I assumed she was either with me coming or because I was like diverting the attention away that she could just run forward, run away. And then neither of those things happened. She didn't run. And then the woman, when I turned, she turned and went after Callie and was calling her the N word.

Oh, okay. Screaming the N word. Oh, okay. Screaming the N word. The record is extremely white, just throwing it out there. That's right. And so I'm just in the laundromat feeling like I force majeure. Force majeure is when an event that is biblical or mother nature.

No, you know the movie Force majeure? Oh, no, I don't. Yes, you do. It's the one with the avalanche. Oh, yes, yes. It's a movie, Swedish movie called Force Majeure, where a family is on a mountain. On a ski vacation. And there's an avalanche, and the dad ditches the family.

Not only does he ditch, he kinda steps over one of the kids to run away. They don't die. Right, it doesn't hit anyone. It doesn't hit anyone. So then they all have to get back together knowing that the dad just did that. Okay, so I feel like I force majeure.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. And I told her, cause then all of a sudden she pokes her head over to the laundromat window and like starts waving. And so I come out and I was like, did you go into somewhere? And she was like, no, she just ran after me and started calling me the N word.

And I was like, why'd you? And then I felt really guilty and she told me not to feel guilty, but it really, it really, I haven't been able to stop thinking about, I don't know if Gru should have heard this. Yeah, no, it's a great story that he needs to know about. His Aunt Monica?

I'll never leave you. He needs to hear these so that he'll know when it's time. This kind of situation happens to him. He's already heard it played out. So he might decide A, that he likes that, and he'll already have a game plan, or he might decide, oh, she regretted that, I'm gonna make sure I always grab my friend.

I didn't. What? I'm just parroting exactly what you. I know, I'm just saying I feel guilty. But she said you don't need to. It was bad, it was bad. Where did she end up? How long were you in this laundry mat?

Not that long. A minute or two? Yeah. Okay, so she just carried on. She didn't like get into- Also, I really felt like I really fell as soon as I entered the laundromat, like I was in some sort of movie.

Oh, uh-huh, yeah, because it was an extreme situation. It was such an extreme situation. It could only be happening in a movie. Yeah, and then you end up in this laundromat where there's music. And then you're in everywhere, everywhere all the time. Yes, and there's two people just sitting there

kind of like looking at me, cause I ran in like all. Like a guy with a knife was chasing you. And I was like, that was great. There's a crazy. When you start talking to strangers. To them, but they can. And now you're her, they ran next to her,

the dry cleaner. Yeah, it was wild. But yeah, she told me not to, I really think my fast thinking was, we gotta get out of this person's. What's the closest she was to you? Really close. What's really close, one foot, 10 feet, 25 feet?

Where your knee is. Okay, so six feet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, if my head was here, my feet would touch your face, I think. Right, so she's charging, charging, by the time she gets to your knee or calf is when I bolt to the left. You bolt, yeah, I'm outta here.

Okay. Flight or flight, and it was flight. It was flight, but it was also like, Kallie, go! Right, now, so now you're kinda resentful at Kallie, too. You feel maybe guilty and resentful. Yeah, but. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Like, take care of resentful at Callie too. You feel maybe guilty and resentful. Yeah, but. Sure, sure, sure.

Like take care of yourself, go into a location. Yeah, but you bounced, she stayed there and then the gal obviously didn't close the gap entirely and touch Callie, right? She didn't touch her. No, she didn't. Okay, so last night, I'm gonna say we, but really Kristen. Kristen has, she wants things to be recycled

in a particular way where they don't really just put it in a landfill. There's a service you can use in LA, or you have a box and you put all this recycling, they actually take it to certified places that turn into park benches or whatever the heck the thing is. And so it's this box that's probably like 18 inches wide

by 18 inches deep by 18 inches deep by 18 inches tall, maybe 24 inches tall. So it's a good size metal box. And it sits in front of our house with those items in it. And then they pick them up in these bags. So Kristen comes in and she goes, a homeless dude took the box and he's on the bus stop bench.

Okay. And I need to get it back. Oh no. And I go, okay, yeah, I'll go get it. And she goes, but you can't go out there because there's a paparazzi out there. Oh. And I'm like, oh my God,

this is like, all of a sudden there's a lot going on. Yeah. I'm like, where's the paparazzi? And this is an age old debate, I get it. It's frustrating to live with me. Like, it's not sufficient. You can't just tell me I can't do something. I gotta like know exactly why I can't do it. This is annoying age old debate, I get it. It's frustrating to live with me. It's not sufficient, you can't just tell me I can't do something. I gotta know exactly why I can't do it.

This is an annoying part of me. So now I kinda wanna see the paparazzi, so I'm not trying to look over the fence. And she's like, what are you doing? I told you what's going on, why do you not, you know. That passes, everything's groovy. And I have ordered food, so now when I get the food, now we're going on 30 minutes later,

when I get the food, sure enough, there's a dude with a huge telephoto lens, like 20 feet away, talking to the delivery guy and everything, and I'm like, oh, God. Because yes, I cannot go get a box back from a homeless person while a paparazzi's taking photos. God knows what people's assumption of that scenario would be. So suffice to say, a good hour and a half goes by

before the paparazzi guy leaves in front of the house. So now I'm like, okay, I gotta go get that box. She really wants this box. Now side note, maybe Rob will understand this. You're not watching Mobland, right? God, I want you to watch it so bad. It's so good. But Tom Hardy's job is he works for a criminal family

and he has to clean up all the shit that goes wrong. And he just says, yes, I'll go handle it. And he just does a very man of few words and he handles everything, he can fix everything. That's like on you, the show. That's like the TV show you. Okay, so I go outside, look at the park bench, not the park bench, the bus stop, he's not there. Okay. I'm like, fuck, not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that.

I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that.

I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that.

I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that but I'm not coming home until I find this box. I'm driving all the way down to the 101, I'm on Hollywood Boulevard,

I'm on all the side streets. You're looking for Hams specifically? I'm looking for the box. I've gotta get the box back. Okay. And the metal box. Right. I'm driving around for a while,

I'm like, I got my hazards on at times, because there's a lot, as you know, in LA, there's a lot of people to look at to see, oh, do they have the box? All to say, I eventually come upon him, see a guy on another bus stop bench, and I look, oh, there's the box. Yeah, and I was like, oh yeah, I'm Tom Hardy,

I found the box. Like I've been driving around for a long time, and I didn't give up, and I found the box. I wanna exaggerate so bad. Do the real thing. 20 minutes. Okay, that is a long time. I will say I think a lot of people would have given up.

Yeah. So I went in the media area and was going, you know, and then I went, so then I just go, I go up to the guy and I go, hey brother, that's my box I gotta get back. And he's immediately nice. He's like, oh, sorry. And I go, yeah get back. And he's immediately nice, he's like, oh sorry. And I go, yeah, no problem.

I grabbed the box and he's like, oh, I have my stuff, can I get my stuff up? Now I'm speaking a lot more coherently than he was, but I'm like, yeah, yeah, of course. So, you know, it's still got all the bags of recycling stuff, and we go through that, and there's weed pipes and all kinds of other, just a bunch of stuff.

A bunch of Ziploc bags, well, God knows what. And he got his stuff back and then I gave him 20 bucks. And then I got the box and I came home and I felt like such a hero. Wow. I really did. I felt like I was Tom Hardy. My wife needed this box.

It was somewhere in LA. I found it and I did it without, completely without incident. Yeah, that's great. And as I'm driving around, I'm anticipating all the many outcomes of this. It could be I say, hey, that's my box. He says, fuck you, it's not my box.

I'm coming home with the box, trust me. Okay. And what I loved about it is it was like, I'm willing to participate in any option. I want the nice option. Mm-hmm. And it was the nice option. And it was the nice option. And it felt quite good.

That is good. Yeah, cause he got a 20. I got the box back. Everyone was happy. Then it was an adventure. Great. Yeah. I-

Isn't that funny that both of us had- Incidents. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's unfortunate. What's crazy is how completely normalized it is if you live here. Cause I'm thinking if I was still in Milford, Michigan, listening to the story, It's unfortunate. What's crazy is how completely normalized it is if you live here, because I'm thinking if I was still

in Milford, Michigan listening to the story, the notion that I would daily be writing to someone screaming at the top of their lungs obscenities and racial slurs, which is just like standard fucking business. It's standard. It is, I know, I was driving by the gas station the other day and there was a woman there, just standing, you know, just standing, talking to herself.

And I barely noticed, and then I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We are so desensitized to you. You have to. It's not like a fault of ours. It would kill you otherwise. Yes, exactly. You really don't have a choice.

You're kind of like. Or you have to move. Like you either, yeah, it's really. But I saw an advanced screening last night of Eddington, which is an upcoming movie, a premiere to Cannes. It has a lot of really cool people in it, all of whom I would love to have on the show. It is quite dark, but funny. What's it about?

So it takes place during COVID in New Mexico. Okay. And things based, that's all I can kind of say. Like it's a lot of things ensue and- A wild poster, it's got a bunch of American buffalo bison running off the side of a steep cliff and they're in various states of tumbling to their death. It pokes fun at, I would say everyone during that time.

I mean, 2020, it starts in May, 2020. And obviously a lot is happening at the time. The pandemic, Black Lives Matter, the movie starts with a unhoused person kind of on this rant. Oh, okay. And that's what made me think of it. But it's very thought-provoking and funny. Like we all, everyone across the board went a bit crazy.

Oh, absolutely. And both sides. You get to see that and it's good. I think a lot of people are gonna be talking about it when it comes out. So shout out to Eddington and Joaquin Phoenix, Pedro Pascal and Emma Stone, please come on this show. Also three of the 10 best actors alive right there.

I know Joaquin Phoenix. Is a phenom. Is such a special actor. Oh absolutely. He's in that Heath category. Oh yeah. And it's so compelling, he's just so compelling. In all the ways. Yeah this, yeah. Yeah the eighth category. Oh yeah. And it's so, he's just so compelling. In all the ways.

Yeah, the tenderness. Yeah. I've hung with him a few times and I am completely charmed by him and think he's so wonderful. How's it going, Groot? He's at work with, take your grandson to work day. Yeah.

Do you need to hold him again? I love looking at his little smile. Have you seen Sinner? Not yet. Oh man. I saw it and I immediately of course wanted to talk to Joy about it and I just hadn't. I had been busy.

And then this morning after I dropped Deltof, I called her and we had like a 45 minute conversation about it. What did she have to say? Is there anything you can say if people haven't seen it? It just led to this incredible conversation between us about blackness, whiteness, masculinity, socioeconomic stuff, identity, how complex it all is,

and how special the resilience of that group of people is, and what has been the product of that. Black people. Yeah, black people. that the resilience of that group of people is and what has been the product of that. Black people. Yeah, black people. The product has been the best art that this country has created. Yeah.

Is out of that heartache and- Art, athletics, everything. Yeah, well, I mean, one aspect of it is, is there's also some Irish stuff happening in it. And Joy was saying when she first saw it, she was like, why is there an Irish jig in this movie? And I was like, and I haven't read anything about it. She's read a ton about it.

One of her best friends is in it. So yeah, yeah, yeah. She had gone to like an early screening. And I said, well, what did the things you read say? Because I immediately went like, yeah, that's true of the Irish too. Like they were, you know, discarded by the English. And what came out of that is like this incredible music,

the dancing, all this stuff. And it's just such a weird phenomenon that out of that suffering can come some of the greatest releases through artistic expression. This is quite beautiful. And yeah, the thing I think is so crazy, if you're the aliens looking at us from above and you understand genetics and alleles and genes,

and you're like, let me get this straight. There's like a million genes, two of them just dictate your skin color. And this whole art of his is based off of maybe the most minute bit of your genetics imaginable. Like it's just insane how strong and permanent the thing is when it's such an insignificant

piece of human, I don't know. Yeah, it is. Oh, it was just a wonderful conversation. I just have so much gratitude to have her in my life, to have very in-depth and honest conversations about that stuff, yeah. Great fucking movie. Yeah, I wanted to bring up that I think the sim is really,

really on another level right now. Or I'm really in sync another level right now. Or I'm really in sync with it or something is going on. Because I've had so many weird sim moments lately. Last night, after I got back from the movie, I was thinking about... Did the movie invite you to that? Yeah.

Oh, cool. Yeah. So Pedro Pascal's also in a movie coming out soon called The Materialist, which I really, really, really wanna see. Because it's the director of past lives, which is one of my favorite movies I've seen in the past decade, I think.

I love that movie. I don't know if I've seen it. Oh my God, with Greta Lee, it's so good. It's so small, like so good. It's so small. Like it's a story of love and loss and the complexity of all those things and relationships. Like how complicated they are. And anyway, it's a beautiful movie and same director. And I'm, so I'm really excited to see that.

Yeah. And I was thinking about that and seeing it. And then I was like, it reminds me, past lives reminds me of this other movie I saw on an airplane. And I couldn't, I was like, what is that movie? And it was like foreign, but I couldn't remember. And then I started listening to this random fashion podcast.

Okay. That like minutes later, the movie comes up. That movie. That you were trying to think of the name of, the foreign film. Yes, the worst person on earth or the- Oh, worst person in the world.

Worst person in the world, thank you. I think I've seen that one. It's so good. Yeah, what's it about? It's a Norwegian woman and like she falls in love, but then there's like a cheating. I mean, it's just like a comedy romance, but deeper. Okay.

And also a really beautiful story. It's an incredible movie, but I was, I couldn't remember it and then they set it. Oh my God. That is within like 10 minutes of all the movies in the whole world, that's weird. Yes, that is. Really weird.

And then another Sim, we have upcoming guest, great episode, I was editing and she's from, no, she brings up Lowell, Massachusetts. Okay. And when I was editing it, I get to that part of Lowell, Massachusetts. Okay. And when I was editing it, I get to that part of Lowell, Massachusetts and my jaw dropped because just hours before I was on Instagram

and what pops up? This clip. We're not in Boston, we're in Lowell, Massachusetts. Or Mass-a-tue we're in Lowell, Massachusetts. Or Massachusetts, I cannot remember. Massachusetts. Massachusetts. Massachusetts.

Massachusetts. Massachusetts. I don't know, whatever. Massachusetts. So that was in- Is that Random People or is that- No, that's Jessica Simpson, that's from Newlyweds. Oh my God.

And it was a bit like, she couldn't, remember that show? Yeah, she said things wrong. She said things wrong, she did things wrong, she couldn't remember that show. Yeah, she said things wrong. She said things wrong, she did things wrong, she couldn't do the laundry, you know, whatever. Yeah, that was the premise. Yeah. Oh yeah, what was the tuna bit?

Chicken of the sea or tuna, and she didn't know what if it was tuna. If there was chicken in the sea. I was on that show. You were? I was, because it was when I was over there shooting that video, and then somehow it was just like, I want to say I went in the hot tub and maybe got drunk or something. Oh my God. And then all of I was over there shooting that video, and then somehow it was just like, I wanna say I went in the hot tub

and maybe got drunk or something. Oh my God. And then all of a sudden they were shooting the show, and then I think I was just, I think. Wow, that's a big deal. It was a big show. I loved it. Anyway, that popped up on my Instagram.

She's saying, Lola, Massachusetts. Don't act like this isn't nuts. Don't brush this off. The last thing I'll add before we do facts is in case you're curious why I have this crazy haircut. Oh yeah. It's because have you seen the Brad Pitt GQ ad article? I did see it.

Photoshoot, you did or didn't? I did. And what did you think? Hot as hell. God damn it.'t? I did. And what did you think? Hot as hell. God damn it. Yeah, I know. It's almost like the older he looks, the hotter he is. He's got like dirt on his face.

He looks so good. He's got a shaved head. He's got like a white. Not every one of his cohorts is aging the way he is. I'll say that. Without disparaging anyone in particular. Fuck me. Look at him.

You know what is weird though? This has been tripping me out. As he gets older, he does a little bit look like my dad, which is crazy. I think primarily because my dad had really full big lips and just a similar face. Yeah, I just like, oh my God, like my dad was almost Brad Pitt.

That's cool. Just needs to go a few degrees one way or the other. Really cool. Yeah, but him riding the motorcycle on the beach and he's got the goggles and his face is all dirty, fuck. He's a stud. He's just laying, that one shot of him laying, like he's just taking a breather thinking,

laying down on his back in a white tee. Yeah. Ah! So anyways, I down his back in a white tee. Yeah. Ah! So anyways, I saw that and I lost my shit. I can't even, I know you know what it does to me, but it's so powerful. I know. It gets me so like.

I love that. Yeah, and so I'm like, I've had a shaved head. I look terrible with a shaved head. But I want now a shaved head. Right. In a shaved head. Right. In a gray beard. Yeah. In whatever motorcycle is right in the whole package.

Sure. I basically was like, what's the closest thing I can do to a shaved head? Yes. And I landed on this. Mohawk. Mohawk. For the listeners, Dax has a mohawk.

It looks great. It's not a huge. You don't hate it? No. Okay, great. It's not a huge mohawk, it's like. It's conservative. It's a mini-hawk don't hate it? No. Okay, great. It's not a huge mohawk. It's like. It's a conservative. It's a mini hawk.

Yeah, it's like maybe two inches long. Yeah, it's nice. And I've really tried to think about what's going on. People love superheroes, right? They love superheroes for all these many reasons. And I really think like, for me, he's as close to a real version of that for me. He's kind of like a superhero to me.

And so when I see him doing his superhero thing, I just, yeah, I don't know. The titillation is like, wow, how could he have now this facet as well? It's just like, it never ends. I don't get sick of it. It's always a new look. There's always, he it never ends. I don't get sick of it. It's always a new look. There's always, he's in a dress at one point, you know,

somewhere I'm like, fuck, that's a rad dress. Yeah. Yeah. I just think like the endless, like he remains novel at all times and he is aging. So it's like the story keeps on evolving. Yeah. He's great.

I do think though, I try to think about like, as much as I would love to look like him and stuff, I also imagine it's a burden. For sure. It has to be a major burden. Like I don't know how the outside thing wouldn't infect the internal identity. Yeah.

You just have to truly be a superhero at that point for that not to just, that to not be like some kind of. Well even superheroes have kryptonite. Well one does, yeah. They all have a thing, they all have a fatal flaw. Yeah, they do. Anywho, okay. Yeah. That's my hairdo.

It's your hairdo. That's my hairdo. It's nice. Summer do. Grootie, it's been a pleasure having you. Groot, thanks for coming. Do you wanna stick around for facts, Groot? Oh my God, his smile just got bigger. It really did.

If you guys aren't watching this fact check, you just must. If your heart can handle it. If it can handle it. Warning. All right, love you. Love you. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

["Walking in the Night"] Okay, some facts. I've really invited myself. That's great. Maybe the most I've ever done. Did you just get in the car? I was like, I'd love to come to this with you. The screen of this movie,

that's just for cast members that I'll be up. He did invite you though in here. No, he was like, you guys wanna come? As a like, no one would wanna come. As a joke. Yeah, this is clearly a joke, don't say yes. I'm not really inviting you, would you like to come? Yeah.

And I said, absolutely. Good for you. I'd love to come. You, man. And then right before the movie starts, the directors all stand up, there's three of them, and they're gonna tell everyone what they're about to see. And I go, just really quick, if I was cut out, I would like to know before the movie,

then find out after. Do people laugh? Yeah, it worked. Oh, good. But it was a big swing. That's a swing, cause they could be like- I had to call out that I, then find out after. Do people laugh? Yeah, it worked. Oh good. But it was a big swing. That's a swing, because they could be like- I had to call out that I had no business being at this. I know, but maybe people would think, oh yeah, was he supposed to be in it?

Because he's not, this is horrible. I had a little bit of a fear that they would be like, oh my God, I didn't even know he was in it. They didn't even announce it, that he was in it. And fuck, he didn't make the cut and he's here to watch. Yeah, I really was nervous. Some people would think that he was in it. And fuck, he didn't make the cut and he's here to watch. Yeah, I really was nervous. Some people would think that. I admire you.

You take a lot of swings that most people wouldn't. And look, most of them work out. I mean, at least above 50%. Enough to encourage me to keep doing it. Yeah. Wow. My family relishes when I miss. And I get it.

I get it. It must be so fun when I come up short because they know I'm taking all these swings. Yeah, that's how I feel. But then it feels bad. It's like Schadenfreude. I actually don't like that feeling. You don't want me to fail, but it's also funny to watch.

It's like, look, it feels more like. The bill's gonna come through. Exactly, like just like that's the way life is. You can't just get out of this. Yeah, justice has been served in a way. Justice, justice, my favorite thing. Yeah, but that one worked. That one worked. Good, fun.

Great. I mean, ding, ding, ding, you took a big swing at Stanley Tucci's house by reading the book, which I brought up on this episode. And I didn't even really remember that part. I know. Yeah, well, I was doing on this episode. And I didn't even really remember that part. I know. Yeah, well, I was doing an Italian accent.

I think. Yeah. My mama, my papa. Okay. Anyway. Anywho. All right, Sam. Well, Sam's.

Sam, Sam. Sam is Sam I am. Yeah, he's the king. We talked about for a second, transference in therapy. Transference refers to a patient's unconscious redirection of feelings and desires about past significant figures in their life onto their therapist.

So this means the client may unconsciously project their emotions and expectations from previous relationships onto the therapist. For example, a client might experience love, anger, or dependence towards a therapist, similar to how they felt towards a parent or other important figures in their past. So-

Do you have this? Do you experience this? I don't think so, but I do think I did it recently. And I knew it. I was like, oh my God, I'm doing this thing to her. I mean, it was a complicated scenario, which I've now told you about separately or on an upcoming episode, people will hear about it.

There was a complicated scenario happening and I was having a feeling about her that I have about other people. And I knew, then I was like, oh, I'm just doing this to her. But then what was interesting is then when her and I talked about it, she was like, yeah, I shouldn't have done. Like I didn't say you shouldn't have done that.

I was like, oh, okay, so this has been going on and I'm realizing this. And she was like, I should not have done that. So that it was interesting. Yeah. Anyway, I just love my therapist so much. So much. And when I was watching the new season of couples therapy, I was like, she really has Orna vibes.

Oh, wow. That's a huge compliment. I know. I know I used to tell my therapist about how great Orna was. How could that be fun to hear? I don't know who wants to hear that. Or Phil Stutz, when we were obsessed with Phil,

I would share with my therapist how much I like Phil Stodds. But I had to be honest. That's the point. But maybe I didn't. Oh yes, yes you do, you do, in therapy, yeah. Yeah. But if someone's just going on and on with you about how much they love a certain podcast

that's not yours, they might at some point reign it in. Yeah, it's like have some awareness. Yeah, yeah, some social awareness. Okay, now. If I've done it, I've not been conscious of it. I don't think I have. I don't think that's something I've role played or. Yeah, it's all subconscious.

It's not like. Well, I think sometimes it's explicit, right? Like have a conversation with me, what would you say to your dad? So you're almost like inviting yourself to take on dad role. This is like the pattern you get in that's negative that you're there to figure out,

that person, the therapist becomes that person to you. Yeah, they need to fill that role. Yeah, it's pretty. We're embarrassing, right? But we're trying to be better. That's the point of it. That's the endearing part. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, so I looked up the Tanzania Safari animals versus the Kruger ones. Okay, great. Okay, so. What are you finding? Tanzania, I'm seeing wild beast, giraffe, hippopotamus, cheetah, zebra, leopard, lion, flamingos, American, I mean African.

American bald eagle. African buffalo. Oh boy, there's really a lot of them, so I'm not gonna keep going. Now, as far as Kruger. What is cute is you said wild beast. Just that's- Wildebeest. Yeah, this is someone will say in the comments,

I wanna save them the wild. Here's what they've got in Tanzania, wild beast. I mean, that's cool. Wildebeest. Yeah. Hmm, oops. The density, I don't wanna shit on anyone else's Cool. Wildebeest. Yeah. Oops. The density, I don't wanna shit on anyone else's

African safari, but just as a fact, the density of animals on the Skirmetti Reserve is astronomically higher than almost everywhere else, other than Botswana. That's cool. Okay, now in Kruger, Kruger National Park. Famous. Leopard, African Buffalo, again.

Wild beast. Wildebeest. Cheetah, African wild dog, common warthog. Now I'm like really nervous, I'm gonna read something wrong. Impala, vervet monkey, blue Blue Wildebeest, yeah some others. I'm not seeing like lion. They have them there in Kruger.

I think that's where famously one of those lions got into the bus window. Really? Yeah. That's, that makes me really not gonna go. Do you have interest in going on a safari? It's not huge for you. It's not on the top of my list. You're not like an animal person.

Brand new information. It might be, remember, I'm the one that told you that. Seahorse, I didn't know what a seahorse was because Indians don't know that much about animals. They don't fuck with seahorses, I think. Yeah, they mainly have bangled tigers. Tigers and elephants. Exactly, they fuck with elephants only.

Okay, so I was Googling, do koalas have chlamydia? If you just type in do koalas, it auto fills. John Oliver famously, do you remember this? He had a long running bit and it had to do with somehow Russell Crowe. It involved Russell Crowe. Okay. And so Russell Crowe, to get back at him,

bought a plaque for him at the Chlamydia Ward for the koalas. Oh, I do vaguely remember this. So it's like the John Oliver Koala Chlamydia Lab. You know, like it was a nominal donation required to have his name permanently associated with Koala Chlamydia. Koala Chlamydia. Koala chlamydia.

Yeah, it is a significant threat to the koala populations in Australia, causing blindness, infertility, and even death. Experts estimate that between 20% and 90% of koalas are infected with, also that's- That's a huge delta there. Yes, I don't love that. That's like saying somewhere between none and all.

Yeah, but it's probably because there's such stigma, the koalas aren't self-reporting. Yeah, probably. It's hard to get them to support. It's part of it, yeah. Okay. Between 20 and 90%, that is literally like saying it's between none and all.

I think they mean in certain locations, like certain populations of them. Okay, it ranges. Like some areas they have, most have it. Yeah, I wanna be in the group with 90%. Why? That means they were fucking a lot. But they might die.

That's evidence of being a party animal. Koalas are party animals. They are, as we now found out. Oh, I guess like- They're bed hopping. I guess I'm not a koala. It's okay. Yeah, you're a chinchilla. We should look at the I guess I'm not a koala. It's okay. Yeah, you're a chinchilla.

We should look at the chlamydia rate of chinchillas. I bet it's low. They're mostly in cages. Cause no one wants to have sex with them. No, cause they've taken themselves out of the population. And they're like goo. They don't have ribs, I think. Yeah.

But maybe they do. They have floating ribs. That's why I am definitely not a chinchilla. I have pretty prominent ribs. Pronounced ribs, strong ribs to house those eggs. Okay. Was Nixon elected November 5th, 1968? Yeah, his birthday.

Good job. Sam's birthday, really cool. I thought that this episode, like, if you're in acting school or in theater programs, like I was, I just thought like, oh, if I was in my high school theater right now or in my college theater, I would love to listen to this. Because he talked about Meisner,

he talked about some direction from Philip Seymour Hoffman in a play that was very interesting. And he mentioned Eric Boghossian like very, very quickly and he's a huge playwright. Like when he mentioned him as he was in a scene with him. And I was like, oh, the guy who wrote Suburbia, like he's a very big playwright.

And I would have been very excited if I was really in that moment. But I thought, oh, you wouldn't get it if you weren't a theater head. Yeah, I didn't get that. Yeah, so if you know anyone in a theater program, send this episode their way. You know what's really funny is like in general,

as people who listen to the show would know, I don't, I'm not generally interested in how someone acts. Yeah. There's just a handful of people and it's really dictated by, I think they're doing something that's absolutely extraordinary within the discipline and I think he's one of the very few people I am

wanna know how they do what they do or if they even know. I agree. Yeah, it would be like if we had Christian Bailon, we're asking him about acting. Yeah, I wanna know how he breaks this down and gets to where he gets. Yeah, speaking of both of them,

I was trying to find the clip of, I bet you did, you rascal. Hard to find. Which was in Vice. Best line of the movie. Best line, Sam plays Bush and Christian Bale plays Shani and I couldn't find it. Bummer.

No, it's a great line. But also I was watching it. This could be one of these lines where it's not even in the movie. No, it is. You line. But also, I was watching it. This could be one of these lines where it's not even in the movie. No, it is. You come to find out, you know how like you've just been saying it so long. Oh no. You find out, oh my God, it's not even what he said.

Or it's a different movie or something. Yeah. Anyway, they are both, I was just watching like a three minute clip because I thought that's where it was. And they're both so good and so undetectable. The real person.

It's wild. Yeah. Some people are just born to do certain things. He in particular, his gift is being a chameleon. Yeah. I remember watching Vice and like, I thought about it for the first nine seconds he was on screen, and then I never thought about it again.

And it really was just Cheney. He's, yeah. Yeah, he can really do that. Like what if he had never found acting? He'd be a drug addict. Oh, we'll ask next time we ever get him on. Okay, Meisner, just really quick. We didn't get too deep in this,

but I do think it's worth, there's all these activities and all these rules and all these things. We did a lot of Meisner in school and I was keeping it to myself, obviously. Yeah, you don't wanna brag. But I know. Make me feel insecure for my lack of training.

Yeah. But the main thing you think of when you think of Meisner is this repetition exercise, which is like two people are in a room and I observe something, you're wearing a white shirt. Then you'll say, I'm wearing a white shirt. I say, you're wearing a white shirt. I'm wearing a white shirt.

And you keep going back and forth until you notice something's like naturally changes. And you keep going back and forth until you notice something naturally changes and you say that. And then you keep going back and forth. But you're obligated to not steer it in any direction? Exactly. It's really hard. Yeah, I wanna do that.

I mean, I don't wanna make everyone else sit through but I wanna do it. Okay. Yeah, you're wearing a black shirt. I don't wanna do it. Okay. Okay, You're wearing a black shirt. I don't wanna do it. Okay. Okay, the original Gong show, that was on NBC from 1976 to 1980.

Four years. Again, four years. All these things I thought were on for 12 years. I thought Dixie Hazzard was on for like 10 seasons. I know, that's me with full house. A lot of these shows were like average hits, yeah. I know. Mary-Kate and Ashley. Oh, it was on for eight seasons, nevermind.

Oh wait, no, they might be counting later ones. No, I think that one was on. Was it? That one really ran, didn't it? I mean, I thought, but then, oh my God, speaking of cool stuff, success. Because Full House, we were talking about Full House, and that's cool stuff. To me? speaking of cool stuff, success. That's full house, we were talking about full house

and that's cool stuff. To me. Yeah, cool stuff. Actually, no, speaking of successful things, speaking of Mary Kay and Ashley, the Rowe estimated billion dollar company. Valued it. Valued it, a billion dollars.

I just read today that Hailey Bieber's makeup company Rowe, which is very good, I like a lot of their products, was bought for a billion dollars today. I was just somewhere she was at and I didn't talk to her. And now I wish I did so I could ask her about her company. I'm kind of obsessed with her. You are? She's really a powerhouse business person

who's been like, you know, looked at as Justin Bieber's wife, who not only that like stole him from Selena Gomez, like pegged in the- Was that the story? Yes, that's the story. So she's been villainized a ton. Were they together? They were.

Okay. And she's also someone's daughter. Yeah, she's- Stephen Baldwin? Yeah. Yeah, she's. Steven Baldwin. Yeah. Yeah, so she has a lot of people that could overshadow her. And she's like, no.

I think it's awesome. I'm gonna get a billion dollars. She did it. You can ask me for money. Yeah, and we will ask her for something. We will ask her for something. Yeah. Anyway, I just think it's cool

when women make a billion dollars. Me too, I love it. I just love it. All right, well, oh, oh, oh, one thing that I wrote down when he talked about Philip Seymour Hoffman and he said, you know, he was always the sober guy. Yeah. Like that was like who we was to them.

Yeah. So it really caught them off guard. And that made me feel really sad. Yeah. And I understood it. It's like sometimes that becomes your identity so much so that, I don't know. Does that make sense?

It is all interesting. He's very legendary in the AA world, Philip. In what way? He just was like people would hear him speak and he could speak in a way that was very. Eloquent. Yeah, and like whatever his skills were as a humanist to be an actor,

I think also was him sharing. I just have ran into lots of people who had seen him share over the years. Yeah. Like he's such a special dude. Yeah. So yeah, that was one of the bigger ones that shook the community.

Yeah. It's so sad. It really, like it's one thing when, this sounds, it's all horrible. It's always so sad. But when you know someone is struggling. But they had it licked at one point, is that what you mean?

Well, I mean, when you know someone's like a constantly back and forth, and it's like a constant struggle, when it ultimately gets them, it's so sad, but you're not like, well fuck, this doesn't work. But when it's someone like this, where he's the sober guy, he's done it. And then it still gets him.

Exactly, it makes me really scared. Yeah, scared is all right. Sad and scared. Sad and scared. Can you just be careful? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll try not to shoot dope. Yeah.

Well, any of it. Yeah, yeah. But there is a sliding scale of lethality for sure. Yeah, but that scale gets away from everyone fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right, love you. Love you, love Sam Rockwell. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining

Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey.