Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Seth Rogen Returns Again

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

Seth Rogen (The Studio, The Boys, Sausage Party) is an Emmy-nominated writer, actor, and director. Seth returns to the Armchair Expert to discuss Snoop Dogg being the only person that’s ever gotten him too high to function, how he’s a prime target for robbery and embezzlement, and why precision and comedy are hard things to marry. Seth and Dax talk about knowing that he’s drawn in a bad way to the joke he shouldn’t be making, why people want the R-rated version of superheroes on The Boys, and that the dragon he’s actually chasing for his audiences is a feeling of disbelief. Seth explains how he wonders if people are happy or bummed out when he shows up to set now that he’s a producer, how directing The Studio made him feel like a kid, and how the show reflects the critical choice between creating for art or commerce.Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, experts on expert. We have an unconventional expert today, but when you hear him talk, you will know he is an expert.

Peek behind the curtain, he was gonna be a Monday. Sure. Because obviously he would be a Monday. But then it got really interesting. We got into a lot of filmmaking stuff and it was so cool that it was like, no, you know what? You were editing. Yep.

And you text me, what if we moved Seth to Thursday? And I said, no, you have bad ideas. Fuck you. You're a piece of shit. I hate you. Don't ever think again. Click. And then I forgot about it and then you did it anyways.

I just did it. And now we're here. Yeah. Seth Rogen is an actor. He's a comedian. He is a filmmaker. He is a martial arts star. Remember when he was a kid, he was in Canada,

he was all about that karate. Superbad, this is the end. Knocked up, Neighbors, Pineapple Express in a new series that, it'll be obvious in the episode. Truly, I love this show. I'm still dying to see it. It's so impressive. It's so funny and impressive,

and the plot is like a freight train. It's called The Studio, and it's on Apple TV, March 26th. So please, I couldn't recommend it enough. I lump him in with Chelsea Handler of people in this industry who are extremely generous. They say yes all the time if you ask a favor. I don't think people really know that about him, but he is. I think he's just a lover of it.

You know, like there's haters, there's jealous people. He's a lover. Yeah, he's a nice guy. He loves projects, he pops up in things. He just loves the whole world. We like Seth. Yeah, I like when the good guys win. Yeah, me too.

Yeah, please enjoy when the good guys win. Yeah, me too. Yeah, please enjoy Seth Rogen. We are supported by Squarespace. Ready to share your great idea with the world? Get your message out there with an amazing website designed with Squarespace. Squarespace is where we designed our website. That's right, and our merch side,

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Hiring? Indeed is all you need. He's an up-chair expert. He's an up-chair expert. He's an up-chair expert. He's an insurance man Something very specific happened Oh, do you want to know what happened? I already informed him about the robbery It's related Okay Was there another robbery?

It's been a second robbery They missed some shit? They forgot a few things You know what's weird? That is the only thing that bothers me I can accept that the stuff got stolen It's the notion like well, are they gonna come back? Yeah easy. They have a good time Just driving me a little bonkers. So I know we're gonna obviously replace the camera It's just a never ending camera of a punishment. They open a camera shop to the quarter. So the same 12 cameras I'd be delighted to buy them off just broker a deal with

Like the mafia I'm willing to pay them 500 a month to just stay away. Pay them camera protection. Yeah. But when I have anxiety, I cut my hair compulsively. Oh no. Yeah, and I was like, oh I have a lot of time. I'm gonna really get in front of the mirror

and then I'm gonna start trimming my hair. And I got lost in it, and then I thought, I should just glance them. I'm sure I got 10 minutes left. And I was like, four minutes after. Oh my minutes after I was in a state of flow I guess. You need a rule maybe no cutting before an interview. I know I just I thought it was gonna be three snips as I always do. It was too good. What's your thing that you'll most lose sense of time doing is it the pottery? I would say I'm annoyingly conscious of time all the time.

Sometimes when I'm filming, I kind of lose track of time, but I also usually have my eye on the clock because there's an amount of time we have to do shit. But pottery sometimes, watching reality TV, sometimes I'll watch enough of that that I just kind of zone out. Here's another thing I fucked up. I was like, I have so much time.

I'll cut my hair. I'm also gonna bring a fan down and I'm gonna bring an ashtray for our guest. Oh, it's okay. Are you sure? Yes. Okay, we love that you smoked weed. Yeah, that was fun for us.

That was fun for us, but it did lead us astray. This room is small also. I've now done these types of things where I make people really stoned. And then I'll see them months later and be like, I was so fucked up that I apologize and everyone feels bad about it. Well, that's what happened.

You did it and we were like, that was great. Nothing happened. And then with Khalifa. Is that his roach? Yeah. Yeah, and I was like, hey, feel free to smoke. He probably smokes at a different rate than I do. Exactly. Shocking.

He did five back to back over the course of an hour and a half. And there was a point where I was like, I'm a little lost. And I looked over at Monica and Monica was like this. And I looked at Robin, he wasn't even looking at the board. He was just sitting on his chair hanging out. I was like, oh, oh. I've hung out with him a few times.

And every time I'm like, this guy smokes a lot of weed. Yeah, it's kind of impressive because he was fine. Yeah, he's fine. That man doesn't have anxiety. Who's the Muhammad Ali of it? Of smoking weed? Yeah, like, OK, so you were around him and you're like, oh, boy.

Snoop Dogg, I mean, there's no debating. I was on Howard Stern once with him and me and him smoked a bunch of weed and then afterwards he invited me to his little trailer, which was like a tiny little room. And we smoked so much weed and it was one of the first times from just smoking weed I had to cancel my entire rest of the day stuff.

And I was just like, I can't fucking do anything. And then I just sat in my parked car for like 90 minutes as I slowly regained my faculties. Snoop's the best though. There's no point in that for you though where you're at all nervous, right? You're just like, okay, here we are. No, I would say eating weed though.

Some of the most unpleasantly high times I've had in my whole life, and this is a life of doing many drugs, eating weed is the thing that can tweak me out where I'm just like oh I've gone too far. Yeah you can go south on you. Yeah because it's not pleasant these other drugs have like a pleasant cushion. That's the point of them. That's the point of them. It'll bolster itself with the pleasant effects of the drugs but eating weed can just go down and there's no bolstering it's like you're free-falling without a parachute.

It's fun to hear you're afraid of that a little bit. Isn't it like comforting? I've said that a few times where I've been so high eating it I was like, how could this be more powerful than crack and psychedelics and the duration is very up in the air It's a real bummer Yeah, I've done way too many shrooms even that's not that bad in comparison to way too much because there's at least like a catharsis No catharsis comes to way too much. Cause there's at least like a catharsis. No catharsis comes from eating too much weed. I think it's like, I should never fuck any weed again. Shrooms, you're like, I should do this differently.

I should do that. This was a rough trip, but it got intense for a while. But at least I came out of it with some sort of insider. You might dissolve your ego and learn some stuff about yourself. There's like a sense of accomplishment afterwards. There's no sense of accomplishment that comes with eating way too much weed food. You don't feel proud of yourself at all. So you'll never do it.

Eans off the table. No, no, no. I do it all the time. Of course. What I do is I drink weed a lot now. There's weed beverages that are fantastic and they have a much more moderate amount. Like a five milligram? Yeah, like three or five.

That I get down with. My favorite thing, I want wanna say you were doing stern where you had smoked a bunch of weed doing stern, but then you were co-hosting with Hoda? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got hammered too? Yes, I got drunk with them very early in the morning. Cause they drink, right?

Cathy Lee and Hoda, they would drink. I could not believe it. I thought it was like a schtick. You hear like Frank Sinatra had apple juice in that glass. And it's one of those times where you're like, oh, a glass of wine holds almost a bottle of wine. They just give you like a full glass of wine at like 830 in the morning.

They're pounding it. And I was like, wow, this is legit. They are drunk on television every morning. What a hack. What a great way to live. Yeah. People love it. I really am envious of that experience. I didn't drink in the morning until I did. And a great way to live. Yeah. People love it. I really am envious of that experience.

I didn't drink in the morning until I did, and then I had to quit. But there were times throughout the year where you did drink in the morning. Camping, church, St. Patrick's Day. Wake up, get out of bed. Brunch, sometimes a good brunch. Brunch.

I love brunch. All about a brunch. And it's a special feeling to have the whole day ahead of you. Yes, wine tasting. I'm glad I never ruined drinking. As I was having a martini the other night, And it's a special feeling. Yeah, have the whole day ahead of you. Yes wine tasting I'm glad I never ruined drinking as I was having a martini Marveling I kept this relatively under control. That's how I feel. I'll have like two drinks and that's it I'm not great at moderation. So I'm impressed with myself. Yeah

I'm like look at you man I have that same inflated pride about not having a gambling addiction. Cause I'm like everything I've ever touched, if I like it, I do it too much, but I can gamble. I did it Saturday. Chris and I were in Vegas for like nine hours. I'm like, let's gamble.

Did 40 minutes, very normal. Gambling's one of the worst. It's an addiction where you're just burning your money. He's losing your life literally, not even figuratively. At least drug addiction, there's moments where you're like, this is fucking great, I'm on heroin. Yeah, there's some escape.

Rob, who's your favorite guest? The chef we love, Roy Choi. Oh yeah, Roy Choi. Do you know him? Yeah, I met him, I was on, John Favreau had like a cooking show many years ago, we were on it together. Well, he had gambling addiction, and he really shared with us.

And I'll say the added fucking burn of that addiction, aside from drugs, is there is this notion you can get even for me, like day three of a crack run. If I thought, Oh, I could smoke two rocks. It'll erase what I did. Go back in time. Yes. It has that promise. That's worse. I'm in deep shit. I've lost the house, but I could fix it all with this. The right hit will make my brain chemistry know how to solve all these problems. Look I get no pleasure from gambling I don't gamble not even like sitting at a blackjack table and tapping into the Sinatra thing of it all

I'm always afraid I'm gonna get yelled at and I'm not doing the right thing And then I'm gonna get bad at me in the table here overpowers any pleasure I get from it I'll stand around and watch my friends gamble. What if you went with a buddy who was kind of good at it and he just was like, you hit a 16. I've done that. I've gone with my friends who are like, I'll be very instructive.

Protect them. Then I just feel like a fucking idiot. Yeah, exactly. What do you get out of that? My friend whispering in my fucking ear what to do. I feel like a child. He's gambling by proxy. Exactly. It's not fun either being puppeted by your friend at the my fucking ear what to do. I feel like a child. He's gambling by proxy through you. It's not fun either being puppeted by your friend

at the blackjack table. We both have money, so it's kind of like- Don't leave yourself out of your bill of miles across the street. Everyone's got money in the room. So you can't tell yourself, oh, it's because I need it. There has to be something else sort of happening. Someone's just telling you what to do.

It's not like, oh, I have a skill. Well, that's kind of my struggle. I was just explaining someone else was on the trip. Who's a big, big book called that. It's a sticky title. It did very well. You can't say it didn't work. You could argue as a powerful book. You can say a lot of things about him, but to say his book was not effective. It was sticky. Oh my goodness. God. Well, yeah, there's a dude on the trip who really gambles. And I was saying to him, I'm in this nether world where I used to gamble with $1,000 in the bank and I would gamble 100, which was a tenth of my net worth. And if I won 200, I literally went up 30%.

It was real life altering mistakes. It changed my life. Yeah, dramatically that weekend. That's bad. And now I'm not willing to go gamble $10,000. No, dramatically. That weekend. That's bad. And now, I'm not willing to go gamble $10,000. No, exactly. That's crazy.

The best time I ever had a casino was Danny McBride got married many years ago in Pop Springs, and we all went to a casino afterwards. I was with Adam McKay and Chris Hinchy, who's a comedy writer. And the best storyteller alive, probably. Yes, and he's so funny. And they did a thing at the blackjack table

that was the funniest thing I've ever seen, where they sat down separately, pretending not to know one another. What McKay kept doing would be, he would hand Chris objects, and Chris said he was a magician, and a sleight of hand magician, and he would keep pretending to steal things

from out of McKay. Oh my God. And it was only for the benefit of the dealer, and the three other people who happened to be sitting at the table. And the kid would be like, I bet you're not that good. And then he'd be like, that how did I get your shoe?

And everyone would be like, that's incredible. And I'd be like, that was lucky. Well, then how did I get your wristwatch? And it went on a very long time. That's a great thing. It was actually one of the funniest things I've ever seen. And it's so pure. It was pure for four people and nobody else.

What are you watching? What shows are you obsessed with? I've been seen. And it's so pure. It was pure for four people and nobody else. What are you watching? What shows are you obsessed with? I've been loving Severance. It's amazing. Walk me through the experience of watching it. Do you watch it? Yes, obsessed. We've seen the whole thing,

cause like your show, we got screened. But I haven't seen the last episodes. I mean, I started it when it started. I'm a huge fan of Ben Stillers. And I've known him since I was 16 years old. And a lot of people I worked with when I was first starting had worked on the Ben Stiller show and Ben was him since I was 16 years old. And a lot of people I worked with when I was first starting had worked on the Ben Stiller show

and Ben was on Freaks and Geeks, and the DP who shot Freaks and Geeks and shot the movie that Ben was the star of. He was someone I just looked up to immensely. And he was a writer and director and he did all the things that I wanted to do and he acted and he was so funny. I've always just been a fan of his

and so when I heard he was directing a new show, I watched it right away. I know Adam Scott for a long time, He's the best and it's incredible. And every time I see Ben, I gush over it because I really think, and it's sort of the complete opposite of what we have tried to do with our show, but precision and comedy are hard things to marry.

And I'd say almost like a sterile level of precision. Stanley Kubrick did it very well in Dr. Strangelove, but very few people have actually done it effectively since that, I would argue. And there are things that are pretty funny with that style, Stanley Kubrick did it very well and Dr. Strangelove, but very few people have actually done it effectively since that, I would argue. And there are things that are pretty funny with that style, but I think Severance is a very funny show. Yeah.

And the story's amazing. I love the mystery. I watched Lost, which was a real bummer ultimately, because I don't feel like it added up to the experience. And this feels like it's giving me the Lost energy. And I have faith that it does add up. I'm optimistic as well. I also loved watching Lost

and I do often in my head think, was it worth it? It's a good philosophical question. Is it worth a great journey if the ending sucks? Yeah. It's like a new riddle. There is no destination. Yes, exactly. It's a journey worth taking without a destination.

And I am glad I did it ultimately because all our friends would get together, we'd watch it. It was so fun, but it was a real bummer. We did not love the ending very much. And so I am getting a similar vibe with Severance, where it does feel like a mystery, everyone's trying to unpack, reveal everyone's excited to see what comes next.

A lot of people I know watch it, so it's nice to talk about it, but the style of it is unbelievable. Most things that are like frame fucked, within an inch of its life. When you're acting for the camera only. So precise, you could tell they're poring over every millisecond of the show.

And usually again, those things suck the comedy out of things and this does not do that at all. Yeah, like Wes Anderson can have that kind of meticulous world and comedy. He's literally probably the only other person to really do it like that. Do you like Righteous Gemstones? I've never watched any Righteous Gemstones.

I'm waiting for it to end and then I'm gonna watch all of it. That's fair. So you can plow through. It's like a treat I left. I actually watched the first episode. I was like, I love this so much that I don't wanna have a staggered viewing experience. That is similar actually.

It's also shot so beautifully. Well you saw the pilot, right? Yes. Danny directed the pilot. This fucking tracking casino style shots with the money. Yeah, those guys are great. And those guys are some of the first guys I worked with that really wanted their comedies to look a certain way.

Well they were film school people. Exactly, and Judd, the people that I was making movies with were not like that. It was very much performance capture oriented. Since then, everyone's style has evolved. But at the time, it was cross coverage, that's it. If it doesn't look great, who cares? All that matters is we're capturing the joke.

In the defense of everyone, that was the first full embracing of improv, all the time. So you couldn't afford to miss someone's reaction. And that's what people liked, and it was working. And it was very alive. Then I remember seeing Foot Fist Way, and I made Observe Report with Jodie Hill. All of a sudden, I was like, no, and that's what people liked and it was working and it was very alive. Then I remember seeing Foot Fist Way

and I made Observe Report with Jodie Hill. All of a sudden I was like, oh, there's shots in this movie. I was like, whoa, this is fucking crazy. The whole other way to work. And then I watched a lot of reality TV. I see it's not that's your anxiety release. Exactly.

White Lotus? I don't watch White Lotus. I could see you on White Lotus. Fingers crossed. Yeah, saying it here. Exactly. I watched your wife's show. I thought that was great.

Okay, great. What a kiss, right? Oh yeah, handsy kiss. Oh, handsy. Talk about this hand. I was watching with my Evan, Aaron Weekly, since sixth grade, and we were in Texas on someone's couch. We're staying at someone's house,

and we decided to watch the show. It had been out for maybe a week or two. You were playing it like hard to get. No, I had been really busy as something happened and I was actually excited because I was now available to watch it. And we were sitting on a couch, we had a very tiny love seat and that kiss happened.

And I was like, oh my God, that's the best kiss I've ever seen on television. He goes, has she ever kissed you like that? I'm like, no. Aaron goes, I don't know who I want to kiss more, him or her. I'm like, no! Erin goes, I don't know who I wanna kiss more, him or her. I'm like, same! It was a powerful moment.

Can you remove yourself? Leighton and Adam are talking about this too. She's like, when I watch the show, I don't see him. I can't really do that. Every time I watch Kristin, I see her. Right, so your buddy's making out with you. Yeah. It depends.

I sometimes have a hard time watching people I know in things. Sometimes it takes me a few viewings to desensitize myself, especially if it's someone I know and they're doing a real character. Sometimes that throws me for a loop. Of course. Or they're like smoking cigarettes

and they've never smoked. Yes, things like that, but then I start to love it. I always think of like Jonah in Wolf of Wall Street is like so good and so funny. And I think it maybe took me a minute where I was just like, what is going on here? And then I was just like, oh no, it's one of the funniest performances ever.

At times it takes me a minute to wrap my head around. Lauren has acted in things where she's made out with people. And how do you feel when that happens? I get it, because I also know when I'm doing it that I don't actually feel like I've kissed the people that I've kissed in movies. Not one? Not for real.

Yeah. I for sure have not. I've maybe never had one real moment ever on or off screen. In any moment ever. Because you're in your head, you want it to look a certain way. You have to be aware. Mine that I'll say in public is,

I had watched Friday Night Lights. Oh no. I loved Lila Garrity. And then all of a sudden on Parenthood, she becomes my love interest. I'm like, I'm gonna get to kiss Lila Garrity. I'm going to drop out of character for those moments. I'm going to drop back into character.

Crosby hat on. Put Dax on. Exactly. You've heard the stories, right, of actors who've really had sex, right? You kind of collect these stories. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were very bummed out to find.

We had Halle Berry on. Dax asked. Oh, there's that rumor of her and Billy Muffin on the staircase. No, it's absolutely not. Were they on a stair Muffin on the staircase. It's absolutely not. Were they on a stair? They were on the couch. Maybe I'm complaining.

Staircase is something else. You talked about staircase. That was Thomas Crowne affair. Or maybe history of violence I'm thinking of. Oh. Another very convincing sexy perhaps on a staircase. I just have an encyclopedic knowledge. Staircase fucking.

The fact check is just going to be a list of staircase fucking. One of my funniest moments with my oldest daughter thus far that has happened in the 12 years is I was like, Thomas Crown Affair, I love that movie. That snappy scene with the bowler hat, she's gonna love this. And I showed it to her when she was probably like eight and we're watching and I'm like,

oh, I forgot about this fucking scene on the staircase with Renee Russo and Brosnan and it's just going on forever. And I'm like, I wonder if she's gonna say anything. And then she just goes, do people really do that? And I go, have sex? And she goes, on the staircase. And we go like, no, it's actually never happened.

It's actually like, in movies, people are constantly, they can't get up to the bedroom. They can't even make it up there. They just can't make it up there. Too horny for the extra 20 feet. Oh, I want to add too, there's a couple things you've said in the previous two interviews that really, really stuck with me.

That's crazy. I mean, like I think about the mob and- I never expect anyone to think of anything I ever have said. It was really aspirational. Like some of them were talking about business managers or this or that. And you said like, I don't know if they've stolen from me.

I mean, I hope they have. You actually said, I love it. I hope they have. And I think it's half a joke and actually half insanely aspirational to not be so attached to it. No, I still am like that. I'm a prime target for serious robbery and embezzlement. I've decided everything. You

send me a docuSign, I will send it back. I hope they have because I still have enough. No scrutiny. I have never read a docuSign in my life. But it is aspirational. What I guess I've seen over time, and I'm just so not like this, money is a thing people really hoard and have a lot of pride in the money itself and want to turn their money into more money and love how much money their money is making them and how profitable their money's money is. And that is just like not how I think. I have no desire for my money to itself be out there working for me. It's an employee.

I don't view my money as lazy. I don't think of it like that at all. And I get how people do it. Are you like that? I am. You love your money to make more money. It's a thing people like. Mine's just a fear.

What are you afraid of? That you're gonna run out of money? Yes, yes. That's not a fear I have. I'm afraid I'm gonna die with too much money. That is my fear. You don't have children. I don't have children.

And I'm afraid I'm gonna die and be like, I could have had a fucking place on the beach. I'm gonna die. I don't I could've had a fucking place on the beach. I'm gonna die. I don't wanna die with $10 million in the bank that I could've spent doing fun, alive things. A jet to Paris on a whim. Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna look back and be like,

I could've been jetting this whole time. I also have that fear. I'm so nuts about it and I'm such a hoarder and then I'm gonna die and I'm gonna be like, all I see now is a bunch of trips I could've taken to Paris. Exactly, yes, that's more of the fear that I live off of. Take the trips, guys. So I was single mom, money was tight,

we were panicked about it. You guys weren't fucking rolling in cash. Not at all. But was there no fear around it in the house? I actually remember as a young person being very concerned about the amount of money we had. And a lot of my friends had way more money. Yeah, you also went to a school where there was some haps.

I went to school that was way across town from where I lived. So I essentially was surrounded by much richer people than me. And so it was something that I remember being worried about, but then I just, I mean, at a very young age, I started making pretty good money. Yeah, that's true. And I remember being like 18,

and my dad being like, in the last two years, you made more money than I have in my entire life put together, basically. If he lived this long off that amount of money, I'm sure I can live. And I think not having kids, I would imagine people seem to want to leave their kids' money, I guess,

which is, I guess, a good thing to do. And that's complicated in and of itself. I'll tell you this much, I went into this going like, no, no, you don't give your kids money, it ruins them, and they need to be hungry and work and blah, blah, blah. I started feeling a little guilty. It's like, if I didn't get shit when I grew up, that'd be fine.

All of our family vacations were in a van eating caramels and we slept in the van. I unfortunately have given them a lifestyle that they're gonna feel like. It's too late. Yeah, you can't go back. Oh, you can't go back from that. It's gonna jump off a cliff.

And I'm like, well, that wasn't very fair to them either. No, exactly. So now what's the ethical thing I do? I don't know. Had I raised them like shit pigs like I was raised, then I would be like, cool. Yeah, had you just started like that? Yes. You had like another little house on this property that was bad. Yes. Oh my god, that'd be hilarious. And we went on vacation, they didn't. Yeah, you keep living in the bad house. Yeah. And then when they get out of college and they can't go on vacation, yeah, that's normal. But now the realization, like, you might not travel for 13 years. Yeah, that's so hard.

It's kind of crazy. Yeah, you can't go back. I don't know. I still kind of think it's a good idea. To not give them anything? Give them some amount, but not too much. Spend it all! Fuck, do you want to go to Paris tonight? Yeah, exactly. I was in a Beastie Boys video many, many years ago.

And one of the things I remember is they were showing me pictures or something on one of their phones. They had recently gone to Paris and there was all these pictures of them in an incredibly expensive menswear shop just in like ridiculous matching outfits. And they were like, oh yeah, every time we go to a foreign country like this, we all go buy funny matching tuxedos and stuff like that.

And I was like, that's a good thing to do with your money. You'll never regret buying matching tuxedos with your three friends with top hats and canes and tails and going out on the town. You'll never regret that. If you're rich, that's a thing that is good to spend your money doing. I'm struggling with this currently very much.

How much money your money's money should be making you? Yeah, mainly that. No, just kids versus feeling very free. I really, really like feeling very. Are you a married person? I'm not married and I don't have children. I literally have nothing except the house I'm building for me only. That's great. I literally have nothing except the house I'm building

for me only. That's great. I mean, it does feel great actually, but then I'm like, oh, am I gonna regret it later? Is it gonna feel empty later? I mean, there's just so much that I struggle with. I like being able to go on vacation and do it up. Fly first class, stay in the hotel.

And not worried if you're fucking your kid up. Exactly. I'm also very scared of that too. Oh yeah, when I was young, we would do these press tours and I'd be on like a private jet going to do press with a nine year old. And I'd just be like, this child,

it's good to have a hard time coming back to earth from all this. Exactly. It's harder than I anticipated, which is, well, I worked my whole life so I could fight first class. They're too young. I gotta be with them. So what the fuck am I gonna do? I'm gonna sit back in the exit row next to the toilet.

No. That feels unfair to me. It is unfair to you. It's unfair to everybody. No one should have to do that. I agree. I re-listened to the second interview. I wanna publicly apologize.

I was coming really hard at you about kids, and then I've censored other remarks you've made, and I certainly was a part of the problem. Oh no, you were pushing. I never did articulate what I was going for in that. I've never felt you needed to apologize for the record. Well, it was pretty full court press. The real essence of it was, is I was like,

you would be such a fun dad for me. I would want to hang out with you. You are dad? Sometimes you see people and you go like, that would be a very fun dad. He has this spirit to be a dad. Ultimately, I think I was just trying to give you a compliment that you would be a very fun dad. He has the spirit to be a dad. Ultimately, I think I was just trying to give you a compliment that you would be such a fun dad.

Thank you. Being a good parent is nowhere on our list of reasons whether or not we would or would not have children. I assume we'd be good parents. I know people who aren't so much fucking stupid who are good parents. Seriously. I do think I would be a good parent,

but I just don't think I wanna be a parent. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I heard you say something recently, and I was like, yeah, yeah, that's fuckin' ideal for him, and I shoulda shut up. What did he say? It was in the press recently. Him basically just saying that, we're having a great fucking time,

and I don't feel like I've missed out, and everything's groovy, paraphrasing. Things are good. This is a random question, but I think maybe because of our guest that came out today, which was Nikki Glaser, and we went through this whole thing where she had made some jokes about me, and we went through this whole thing

where she had made some jokes about me, and I was very, very sensitive. Really? Yeah, yeah. What did she say? No, it was great. On the show or out in the world? In the world.

She was gonna make it in the Golden Globes, and I had found out that it was too hard for the Golden Globes, and I was like, oh no. And then during the whole monologue, I was just, one of those cameras was on us, and I was just waiting to have to fake some positive reaction to being shit on. And then so she didn't tell it there,

but then she told on Stern the next morning, but then I purposely didn't want to hear it because I thought I'd made up these fucking jokes that were so mean to me. And I was kind of just devastated. And then I heard the joke, it wasn't bad at all. And I was like, what a waste of my time. Then we had her on, we talked about it, it was so fun.

But I think because she was the guest today and I posted it and I was just reliving that whole thing, I was curious, are you sensitive? Like I'm so fun. But I think because she was the guest today and I posted and I was just reliving that whole thing, I was curious, are you sensitive? Like I'm so sensitive. Yes, I am sensitive to people making jokes about me, for sure. It's really hard, right? Especially if it's comedians I like.

Yeah. Yes. It's happened a few times. Like when we made the interview, we kind of became open season because we were like the news. To remind people, North Korea hacked Sony. North Korea hacked Sony.

In the wake of your film. It almost started a war. It was the biggest active industrial espionage in history, I believe. It's kinda cool you were a part of that. That's a cool deathbed thing. It is. Like, oh yeah, I fucked up world relations for a minute.

Yeah, geopolitics. Like, I'm powerful. Well, that was another good lesson. You can hit the bullseye too effectively at times. There was comedians that I like making jokes about us in the movie. Whenever they would make jokes that the movie sucked, that I just didn't like because that's all I care about. But again, you get over it and it's happened again. You've been obviously invited to all these rows. Yes. Have you ever gone to one? Yeah, nothing that

those has ever really insulted me. I have like a pretty thick skin about it because I also make jokes about other people all the time, especially in our movies. We make a lot of jokes about people and I've had people come to me and been like, that wasn't great. Being in a theater full of people, having them laugh hysterically,

and a joke making fun of me. Like I've received direct text messages from people being like, why would you do this? And I'm like, yeah, I get it, I'm sorry. And I've gotten better. I have been in some situations recently where I was going to make jokes about certain people and certain things and had the foresight

to ask the people beforehand as to whether or not they felt as though this would be in poor taste. And when it was told to me in no uncertain terms that it would in fact be in poor taste, I was happy to not do the joke. And I know enough about myself now to know that I'm drawn in a bad way to the joke I shouldn't be making sometimes.

And I get a kick out of saying the thing that I know I probably shouldn't. And it's not even always the funniest. Sometimes it's very personal. Sometimes it's just something I know I shouldn't necessarily be saying. I used to be much more inclined to do it. And because I think I wanted to show I would do it

or I didn't care or I thought it was just funny that I was treading into these waters that even if the average person didn't think they were taboo, like I knew in my head, I was like, oh, this is fucked up anyway. It's like you're answering the calling to the commitment to comedy. Like in that moment you elevate it.

Yep, I actually thought it was funnier. It's not even always funnier. It's just like a thing that I know I shouldn't be saying. It's a slippery slope. This is terribly corny, but hurt people, hurt people. There is some reality, and we even had fun talking when they get, it's like, the bottom line is, I'm really sensitive, and because I'm really sensitive

and insecure, I'm great at seeing other people's sensitivities and insecurities. Yes. It's like, you almost have to be a little wounded to even know what to do. Or sometimes you've just tread into an area where you are fodder for comedy whether you like it or not That's what it felt like with the interviewer. This is such a big story You have to make a joke about it and I just got that people wouldn't be doing their job Exactly, like you feel as though you were ignoring a big thing that was

Didn't do it and in those moments are the feelings of a few more important than like addressing the elephant that all sees in the room. Like Diddy, I mean, it's not gonna happen now that those jokes aren't gonna pop up at the shows and stuff. You're just like waiting for it. I know, and all I'm thinking is how does Diddy feel? I know.

I'm pretty worried about it. Poor guy. All I'm thinking is I'm watching this stuff. This guy has to watch these jokes. He's probably sensitive too. For all of his improprieties, I'm pretty worried about it. Poor guy. All I'm thinking is I'm watching this stuff. This guy has to watch these jokes. He's probably sensitive too. For all of his improprieties, he never really made fun of people. He didn't even earn this.

He didn't deserve it. That's not what his bag was. He wasn't out there shitting on other people. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert... if you dare. Until April 2nd, sky-high elegance at dream prices during the Air France Rendez-vous. It's time to book your Rendez-vous with Paris, starting at $765, or Madrid, starting at $885 return,

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Imagine this. You help your little brother land a great job abroad, but when he arrives, the job doesn't exist. Instead, he's trapped in a heavily guarded compound, forced to sit at a computer and scam innocent victims, all while armed guards stand by with shoot-to-kill orders. Scam Factory, the explosive new true crime podcast from Wondery, exposes a multi-billion dollar criminal empire,

operating in plain sight. Told through one family's harrowing account of sleepless nights, desperate phone calls, and dangerous rescue attempts, Scam Factory reveals a brutal truth. The only way out is to scam their way out. Follow Scam Factory on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Scam Factory early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. At 24, I lost my narrative, or rather it was stolen from me. And the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes, and politics.

I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. So I think listeners can expect me to be chatting with folks, both recognizable and unrecognizable names, about the way that people have navigated roads to triumph. My hope is that people will finish an episode of Reclaiming and feel like they filled their tank up. They connected with the people that I'm talking to and leave with maybe some nuggets that help them feel a little more hopeful. Follow Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the

Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Reclaiming early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Before we get to the studio, I just want to say I love the boys so much and I love Gen V so much. Oh, that's so nice. How much time does that whole thing take up? I want it to go forever. I know it'd be great. They're doing the last season now. Oh, they are?

Yes, but they're doing another show. We've slowly become the thing we are making photo of, which is the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Yeah, yeah, good though, good. So we are doing another show that's like a prequel about the formation of Vaught set in World War II with Soldier Boy and those characters. But it's a funny thing with the boys where me and Evan, it's a very well-run show and the guy Eric Kripke who runs the show

does such a good job that it makes it that it does not occupy very much of my time or energy. We were very involved in the very beginning of the show. We like cast the show and kind of designed a lot of the uniforms. I would imagine you were taking all of your cultural capital and power at the studio to allow that tone to exist and be that bold. And then once that was achieved and rewarded, you could step away a bit. Well, it was also Amazon. It was a good moment for us.

We found ourselves at a place who was like looking for its identity in some ways. They didn't have like a flagship show. And so they kind of didn't know what it was. The people who are running it changed over in the midst of the time we were doing it. So I actually think we kind of just got lucky. No one had any reason to tell us no, basically. They actually really believed in it. And our pitch was very clear.

People want the R rated version of Super Heroes. Well, but maybe the X rated. Very much so. In a world that was like so inundated with superheroes, people will get such catharsis to see what this would kind of be like in real life and how gruesome it would be and how gross it would be. And I remember that was the thing

we would always say in the pitch is just, your whole life you've seen Superman shoot lasers out of his eyes. You've never once seen how grotesque the effects of that would be on like an actual human's body. 6,000 degrees. Exactly, and that was like a thing. We were just like, that is what the show is. They really don't fight us very much on stuff on that show from a content

standpoint. I'm amazed at what they let us get away with. The reason I love it so much and Kristen, I'll say this all the time, mid sequence, we're like, I can't believe it's on television. The appeal is I can't believe it's on television. Yeah., half the appeal is, I can't believe it's on television. Yeah, and that's like our favorite tone. And that's like a thing we've always chased. It's a thing I was actually just talking to my wife about. I actually think there's something about Barry

was a defining moment. I could always be personally, but I do think it was a moment where I saw things in a movie where I was like, I didn't think you could show that. Putting cum in her hair. I always think of the first thing where you see his nuts and dicks stuck in the zipper. It's so funny, cause you're just like, they you could show that. Putting comb in her hair. I always think of the first thing where you see is nuts and dicks stuck in the zipper.

It's so funny, because you're just like, they don't show that. And the joke is they're not showing it. And it was still one of the funniest scenes ever, even though they aren't showing it. And then they show it. And it was one of those things where you're looking around in the theater at the people around you, strangers,

and you're just like, are we fucking seeing this? Like, is this real? Are we actually in a theater where this is happening? We've seen throughout the years when our movies are functioning the best, that is a moment we've been able to elicit from a crowd. And that's like a thing me and Evan are always referencing. It's not like laughter and it's not cheering.

It's disbelief that people were allowed to do this thing. And that also somehow it's actually serving the overall story and the movie and the comedy. That's like the dragon we're chasing a do this thing. And that also somehow it's actually serving the overall story and the movie and the comedy. That's like the dragon we're chasing a lot of the time when the audience is just like, are we fucking seeing this? And yeah, with the boys based on a comic and it was one of the first things me and Evan read,

we were just like, I can't believe someone even drew this. Okay, so the comics are as hardcore. The comics are even more hardcore. Oh, they are. I would say anything we toned it down honestly and made it more comedic. The comics are a little less comedic and are a little just dark and violent and gross.

We added a slightly more human, you know like it's a little over the top with the blood and the popping of the human heads which I think adds comedy to it. Yeah, definitely. It's so much fun to work on. I have a weird question. Were you attracted to dangerous things when you were young?

Well, he's a karate master. Yeah, sort of, I was. Well, that's controlled danger. I mean, like, that type of danger. I played rugby. I wasn't adverse to danger and adrenaline. As I've gotten older, I'm very adverse to physical danger, injury in any way. Because of the Todd Phillips thing? Yeah, your comedy is dangerous. and adrenaline. As I've gotten older, I'm very adverse to physical danger. Just injury in any way.

Because of the Todd Phillips thing? Yeah, your comedy is dangerous. What you were just describing is the shock and awe and disbelief of, oh my god, we're going to do this, is bringing people along on a dangerous ride comedically, which always is the funniest, really. It is all in service of the audience. As a fan of movies, I've felt these moments where I'm like,

oh, they're fucking going for it, yeah. Your novelty meter goes up like, oh, I'm gonna actually see something new and original. Exactly, did you watch The Substance? I love that movie. Yes. That was so good, and that was one of those times, honestly, recently, where I was like, holy fucking shit.

I know Coralie a little bit, and I think she's a genius. Her first film, Revenge, is very, very good. I don't know if you've seen it, I recommend it. It's another 10 out of 10 movie. But in a movie that already showed me it's willing to go as far as anything, I never thought it would go this far. I loved it.

It's almost more rewarding, I think, the older you get, because it gets harder to do that to you. So yeah, I was sitting in the substance going like, here we go, man, I'm 18 again. I feel like I was watching Dead Alive, or an old Sam Raimi movie or something like that, where you're just like, oh my God, yeah, those were movies we loved.

Dead Alive, which is one of Peter Jackson's first movies, is this grotesque kind of horror zombie movie that is so gross and me and Evan would watch it and just be like, oh my God, this is what we're looking for. It's too much. Yeah, this is the stuff right here. And Evil Dead and Army of Darkness and those movies,

they're so gross and funny. It's amazing that two of you have been able to continue together. And Evan's had kids. Yeah. So they have done. And Evans had kids. Yeah. So they have done. It's really amazing. Yeah.

Okay, so before you came in, it was told to me that you were hopeful I would watch all 10 episodes of the studio. It's always helpful. And I go, man, I love them, but this is a tall order. That's five hours. I normally have to watch someone's movie

or I watch an episode or two. Oh, they're half hours. They're half hours. Yeah. But I'm like, man or I watch an episode or two. Oh, they're half hours. They're half hours. Yeah. I'm like, man, I gotta watch the whole series. So of course I go into it with a little like, oh, fingers crossed from the bottom of my heart.

And sincerely, I have probably told 40 people already. Oh, that's so nice. How much I fucking love it. I watched two by myself. And then I said to Kristen, you've got to go watch these two and catch up cause we're going now for the next five nights. We're doing this show.

And then so she too is obsessed. I just plowed through it and I loved it. And I'm so glad I had all 10 to be honest. But I don't know what part of your dick to start sucking first. But I want to tease the tip of a little bitch but the shaft is calling my name. Why I do this?

I don't know. I'm a holy fuck. I think branch, but the shaft is calling my name. That's why I do this. I'm not. Holy fuck. I think the first thing I wanted to say is this cinematic accomplishment, I did not see it coming, and it's so fucking impressive. Let's go premise first, just because I wanna get to the one or so bad.

But hit me with the premise of the studio. It exists in a world where there's just kind of one other studio in Hollywood. There's like Universal and Netflix and Columbia, and then there's Continental Studios, which in our world was founded a hundred years ago. And it's in our Hollywood as we know it, except there's one other fictional studio. And every other movie exists and there's the movies that this studio has made basically. And in the pilot, my character, who's worked at the studio for decades and has always wanted to

run the studio and who loves films more than anything finds himself to be the head of the studio and it's Really based on our dealings with studios We've been producing a very long time and writing a long time and honestly this one sentence that was said to us by an executive Many years ago was the kernel of the whole ideas. We were getting notes on something and he goes You know, I got into this job because I love movies and now it's my job to ruin them and we were like I got into this job because I love movies, and now it's my job to ruin them. And we were like, oof. And that's honestly something we've seen a lot,

because we've befriended a lot of executives over the year. We worked with great executives. Catherine O'Hara seems a little archetype of Amy Pascal a little bit. Inspired by her role in our lives, especially as like a mentor and someone who taught us a lot. I adore her. Oh, she's the best.

She walked the whole show. She was very nervous about it, but she loved it. Wait, Amy. Amy Benskell used to run Columbia Sony. And was sort of unceremoniously ousted. And unfairly. Yes, sort of in the wake of the interview. I would be lying if I was saying Parsley responsible

for it all happening, which adds a layer to it all. Wow, okay. But since then, she's become a very successful producer and it's a much better job, but it's a hard transition, which is something we can deal with in the show. And can we talk for one second, because for years, the president of the studio was a threatening figure for me.

It was who I would have to really bowl over and impress in a pitch to get them to buy it. And then to get it greenlit was its own fiasco and so hard. And so I just had this weird relationship. And then over the years, I've been able to step back. I imagine we feel the same way, which is might be the worst job in all of Hollywood. Exactly. Anything you do could get you fired.

So it's a constant dance of how much responsibility or ownership do I take over any given thing? Because you want to be associated with successes and not associated with failures, but you don't know which one is going to be which. There's countless movies that everyone wrote off as bombs that become huge hits. And vice versa things that everyone's betting on as a huge hit that becomes a bomb. And also art and commerce are obviously big themes in Hollywood and in our lives, I would imagine.

And they are truly the inflection point of those things. And they really are the people who every day are faced with the choice of, do I support creativity or do I mitigate risk and bet on commerce? These two actors I don't even want, no one agrees they're good, but they're gonna secure me X amount for. They have 50 million followers.

Exactly, or you make the dumber version of the movie and the smarter version. And it's a very fear and panic based job. Cause you could actually lose your job at any moment. I've known people that run movie studios for like six months. 18 months. Yeah, they're gone. They're never even there to see their movies come out.

No, or they don't do anything. That's actually a strategy a lot of people take is to do nothing so you can't be blamed for it. A lot of people's strategies are to come in and to try to not make movies. It's just an all fear run job. I started getting really empathetic and sympathetic. These people I used to kind of hate or was scared of.

Now I'm like, oh my God. It's like hard to fully villainize them once you get to know them. So it was during the pandemic, I rewatched the Larry Sanders show, which was one of my favorite shows ever when I was young. And I was just like, it'd be fun to do something kind of like this.

What's my version of this type of character who's constantly at odds with what he wants to do and what his job is making him do. He wants to make art. He wishes he was Robert Evans in Robert Evans' time. No one is anymore. But a lot of studio heads are like that still currently. It's sad, really.

It's a bummer of a job. It's really sad, but it's funny. It's like inherently was very comedic to us. We would constantly just see these people in these situations where we're just like, thank God this is them, because it's so fucked up. And a lot of it is also, they just want famous people to like them.

And they just want directors to like them, and they want writers to like them. And though writers and directors and actors just want something, such a transactional relationship. At best they like you because you're giving them things, and at worst they don't because you're not, or they just think you're a fucking idiot. And a lot of them just want to be like,

if there's that group of people at the party talking that's the filmmakers, they just want to be invited into that group. Well, the show starts with Seth's character, Matt. You're visiting set for the first time and Pete Berg's directing. I don't even think I've put it, other than I've been directing a movie

and the president stopped by and I'm just panicked. I don't want him there because I'm afraid I'm gonna do a bad job in front of him. I really underestimated how rough it is for the studio. They often don't want you there. And I think that is palpable to them as well. And they just want to be there. And they've killed themselves for 30 years

to get this job, and then they show up at their movie that they're financing, and no one wants them there. It's really sad. But you make yourself the joke of the whole movie, which is fantastic. Back to the sensitivity thing and who you can make fun of. I think it's very fair, because you're

the one who's probably most embarrassing in all these situations. Oh, for sure. And it really is tapping into my own fears. I am a producer now. I produce more things than I act in, right? I am often in the position where I'm like, am I making these things worse or better? Are people happy when I show up

or are they bummed out when I show up? It's hard to know. It is hard to know. And a lot of the stuff that I wanted to write about and put into the show was my own feelings of insecurity. Just as someone who at times we are the people who decide which movies are getting made and which ones aren't. And we're betting on people and not other people

and we're casting people and not other people. And it really is that fear that I'm ultimately mitigating risk as opposed to nurturing. It's weird to be on one side of the line and transition to the other side, identity wise. That conflict is really something about like the character that I thought was very funny and interesting. I've put so much more work into this than anything

I've done in a very long time. It seems so. Yeah, and so I really knew I wanted to be a character that I thought I could perform in a funny way, but also really spoke to my own Look for the german translation But yeah, so all those things were really the reason that we made the show So you get this job but you make this faustian deal right out of the gates with the chairman brian cransden

He basically says like I will give you this fucking job if and only if you get on board with making this exciting new franchise Kool-Aid. Yeah. No. And he's like, oh my fucking God, a fucking movie on Kool-Aid? Yeah.

Which isn't even that nuts. It's not crazy at all. It's like just enough to be something. It's like one degree stupider. Probably would make a great movie the more I watch the show. Well, what's funny is in the show, It's like just enough to be something. It's like one degree stupider. Probably would make a great movie the more I watch the show. Well, what's funny is in the show,

we come up with like a plot for the Kool-Aid movie and we really put a lot of thought into it. It's funny, I watched The Bear and I really liked it. And that was something I would say a lot as we were making the show is like, as seriously as they take cooking, is as seriously as we have to take filmmaking. We can't pretend that something would happen that wouldn't.

And we can't present the audience with an idea that we are telling them people would be excited about, but in the back of your head, you know, they wouldn't make that fucking movie or that cast wouldn't be exciting or you wouldn't be nervous talking to this person. It has to feel real also. Okay, so that's the premise.

Ike Barinholtz is one rung under-Sess character. Yeah. And fucking- Love Ike so much. We just couldn't love Ike more. Catherine Hahn is the head of marketing. These are all our favorite people. She's so funny. What a monster she is.

She's so fucking talented. Oh my God, I never really worked with her. I did like a live reading with her once a few years ago and I'd just always been a fan of hers. It's funny, because in the script originally, that character was sort of like the straight person, the smartest in the room The most buttoned up and then she came in was like no

But also was like that's not who the heads of publicity are they know everyone they're kind of in on influencer culture They're so online want to be the hippest in every single thing these archetypes are pretty consistent through all the studios Oh, they really are. Building up to the show, we interviewed almost every person who runs a studio in Hollywood, almost every person who runs marketing for a studio in Hollywood, people who used to run studios.

One of actually the resounding feelings from the marketing people was that they view themselves as more creative than the executives. They're like, we actually make stuff. They do. We actually create things. We're making commercials, content, we're thinking of posters, we're thinking of little ads. These guys are just sitting in rooms fucking giving notes and shit like that. I'm sitting in front of an editing machine.

They're the arbiters of good ideas and we are the creators of good ideas. And so that was like a really funny dynamic. They have extreme ownership. They're incredibly confident in a lot of them, which is also like the dichotomy. A lot of the executives are sort of like me. They're kind of like Nebeshi Jewish people who are feigning confidence at best. But the marketing people come from sales. They have like a whole different energy. To defend them for a minute,

cause that other job is so terrible. They have nothing to do with what gets made. They actually are on the green light committee at some of the studios. That's true. But most often they are handed a movie. Their task was to make everyone in America want to see this. Well, they could have directly been overruled is what happens a lot.

Often they will have said, we should not make this movie. We can't sell this. We cannot sell it. And then they're like, guess what? We did anyway. And if it fails, you're the one who's going to get fired. They get to polish a lot of turds. Yes, for sure.

That was just a very funny dynamic to add into the show and Catherine O'Hara's on the show. Catherine O'Hara, Canadian. Fellow Canadian, a legend. Icon. Icon, literally. She's just so fucking perfect and everything. Okay, the episode that I have to imagine

you feel proudest of, I can't stop talking about, is episode two, it's called The Wanner. That was a tough one. I don't wanna give too much away, but I also wanna whet people's appetite because it's called The Wanner. That was a tough one. I don't want to give too much away, but I also want to whet people's appetite because it's an incredible accomplishment. The episode's called The Wanner. It starts with you and Ike driving to visit set.

We already know people do not want you to visit set and the stakes couldn't be higher because Sarah Pauley is directing a movie and they're getting a shot at magic hour, which means you have this tiny window of 40 minutes of good light. And then the shot's gonna be the camera, and it's gonna do a oner.

We're never gonna cut. It has to be perfect, and you guys decide to visit in that moment. Tell people what a oner is. It's a continuous shot. Like the most famous one probably is like the one in Goodfellas, where they start outside the Copacabana

and they go through the kitchen and they weave their way through and they drop the table and the communion starts. There's no cuts. No cuts, one long uninterrupted. And everything has to be done perfectly. You can't fuck up once. There's no coverage for it. It's a full commitment. The very famous one in hit and run. Yeah.

Probably the second most famous one. But by the way, when you commit to one and it works, the fucking exhilaration beats anything you can do on a set. Because it's a team sport. Everyone has to hit everything perfectly. A lot of moving parts. They're very hard. And the show's so meta, so also they're acknowledging what masturbation a oner is. How no one notices how it's just for the filmmakers to get off of their own technique. Yes! I've even heard stories about people having the existing record on the monitor that they're trying to beat. That funny? Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Okay, so what's fucking impossible is the episode is also a one-er. In real life, the episode itself is a one-er, about a one-er, and then all the things that are being laid out in the episode are just so fucking satisfyingly woven into the conclusion. The whole episode is a one-er?

Yeah, well in the whole show, every scene is a one-er on the whole show. There's a few episodes where it's maybe so fucking satisfyingly woven into the conclusion. The whole episode is a one-er? Yeah, well in the whole show, every scene is a one-er on the whole show. There's a few episodes where it's maybe only four or five shots throughout the whole thing. For 30 minutes. Yeah.

That is really impressive. But also, not only are they choreographing their own one-er, which is the episode, but there's also a real life one-er happening in the show. Jesus Christ! It is so mind scrambling. It's an insane accomplishment. Thank you.

It was really hard. It's not just the oner, it's the layers of payoff. It's magic. Oh my God! Holy shit, did you direct it? Yeah, we directed the whole show. We wrote the show knowing it would be oners. It wasn't like a thing we just decided when we showed up.

And for that episode especially, we had to really block basically the entire episode and the days leading up to it, but not with the actors. So like me and Evan, who I direct with and the writers, we only had access to this house for like two days before we started shooting it. And so as they were reading the house, we just would walk through it and really try to block it.

What we would do is we could only actually shoot for around an hour a day because of the light. So we could only shoot between five and 6 p.m. basically. So everyone would show up in the morning and we would rehearse whatever that day's chunk was. And they were eight or nine minute chunks. There's very little trickery in that episode. Oh yeah, yeah.

It seemed like you had three cuts. Yeah, exactly. There's like three or four cuts total in the whole thing. What you can't tell, they're stitched beautifully. Chris and I, we were even arguing. I'm like, probably there was a hood mount on the car that was somehow easily detached. Yeah, it's exactly what it was.

Oh, thank God. I just won one argument. We would do visual effects to erase rigging. That's like a trick we would do a few times. That's what Chris said. Well, it'd be on the hood. There's a lot of sleight of hand involved. This is a cinephiles fucking whack off session.

Like we were geeking out. It was so fun for us. It was just like the opposite of how we were always brought up making movies. It was always about two cameras, improv, we'll figure it out editorially later. We were like, what if we do the exact opposite and we are painting ourselves into this corner

that we cannot paint ourselves out of? Because there's 15 actors in that episode that all have lines. If one person forgets their line. It's so scary. Nine minutes into a take, it's back to the car. Oh my God. The Golden Globes one was the hardest because of the amount of people.

That has a lot of long shots in it, but there's also 400 extras in every single scene. So my question about that episode is, did you guys piggyback on when the show was actually? No, we created our own Golden Globe. That's another episode we shot at four days because we couldn't have that room for very long. And we had to load in and load out in the same week.

But no, we threw the Golden Globe. No, it's a full Golden Globe. So that show has to be functioning as a real Golden Globe show in the background. Oh yeah, we had to cast so many people and the choreography of it was unbelievably complicated, but it's funny because as we were doing it, we're like, I don't even know if the average person

will be able to articulate what is happening here. The energy of it, I think, is what we were excited about. Well, okay, so another achievement of the show is you have fucking plot. A lot of comedies really don't have plot They don't have an engine and these fucking episodes every one of them are so stressful The tension is thriving throughout the whole show and that's because of the winners I yeah, it's cuz you're never cutting and I think it's also cuz it never settles into a rhythm of cutting back

There's no breathing between two people. We were always like, the tone should be stress and panic. It is. And there's only a stories in the episode, which I think was also conducive to that type of storytelling is we're never cutting between you set up my story and I'm doing this thing and you set up my story and he's doing this thing. The stories are all singular. And so that also helps with the singular camera and the singular style of being in the room with the characters from like a writing standpoint. You know, it's funny, I did these table reads.

It's actually where I met Catherine Hahn for the Netflix is a Joke Festival a few years ago. We did a live reading of Seinfeld scripts. Oh, I remember this. I was Jerry and Aziz Azzari was George and Jack Black was Kramer and Catherine Hahn was Elaine. Oh my God, I love all. And I feel like in reading them,

it was like the Rosetta Stone or something like that. It's all the structure. Math. And it's not even the jokes. It's the order of the scenes and the raising of the stakes. That to me is what I would wanna do with a show. It's like true situational comedy. And then also the score, you have this like chaotic jazz

and that's fucking nerving you up to no end. It's like never rhythmic. That's what we'd always tell the composer. We're just like never have it settle into a rhythm. Whenever it feels rhythmic, it would get boring. Always make it a little off and uneasy. It really is stressful. So driving home the night of the episode, the one-er, did you get a burst of elation?

I was pretty happy. You could also watch it the next day. You don't have to wait for an editor to assemble it. Yeah, exactly. I was honestly really nervous about how we were shooting the show. And I would talk to my wife Lauren a lot about it. I talked to Evan a lot about it. The first few weeks especially. I was just like, are we fucking up? Are we making a mistake? Are we so up our own fucking asses with this that we're just sacrificing comedy?

That was my real fear. I was like, are we making it less funny in service of this style? And I kept being like, no, I really think we thought of this because it would be additive to the tone and the comedy. And then I saw it cut together and I was like, thank fucking God. And I was so excited about it, so happy by it.

And yeah, when we finished the one or episode, I was really happy. And Sarah Pauley is someone I've known a very long time. I was in a movie she directed 15 years ago or something like that. And she's such a funny person and such a funny actor. Goh was one of mine and Evan's favorite movies. Was inspirational to us.

It's wild and frenetic and nice. Exactly. I think Pineapple Express is very inspired by Goh. And Dawn of the Dead, I was just always a huge fan of hers and then I worked with her and I'm just like, she's one of the funniest fucking people I've ever been around. But again, you have a non-actor

in this kind of high-stakes situation where she's gonna have to hit all of her beats really well. And she like nailed it. She couldn't have been funnier. Yeah, that was the thing with the show. We have a lot of non-actors on this show, filmmakers, writers, directors. That was another fear I had where it's like,

we're taking these non-actors and essentially asking them to do like the hardest thing you can do as an actor. Now you gotta be a part of this seven minute scene. Yeah a play. If you literally say one word wrong we have to start over. And we have a 50 minute reset. Sometimes yeah literally we gotta get back in the car. No this is so stressful. Try back up the block. You're breaking shit all the time. I'm falling there's thuds in the chair. Oh my god. So what you were saying, it did become like a real team effort. And those are also my least favorite moments on sets often is just you're sitting on an Apple box, the crew guys are on their phone because it's just, okay, now it's this shot, now it's this shot. One out of 200 people

feel like they're working and that's kind of the person who's on camera. Then I've been in some movies, I got to be in a Steven Spielberg movie, and he had these very elaborate shots sometimes where it was like, oh no, it's all gonna play in this one shot. And I would just see how the whole crew would come together and be so psyched about it. You're right, people rarely all do their job at the same time. Exactly. It's why people like doing theater because it's everyone coming together. Yeah, and in this, even if you had two lines in the scene, it was so fun. You didn't feel like you were just window dressing or just waiting for your part.

You were a part of a huge scene. And that was another reason that it was partially procedurally alluring to us. Yes. So I think there's a lot of ways you can be a good director. I really, I think I've grown a better understanding of what is needed to accomplish these things and how much time it'll actually take and how much time it'll actually take

and how much preparation it will actually take. And so we're very prepared and it would get very discouraging at times the shooting style where we would joke often until sometimes like the seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth take of these long sequences, it's just not even fucking close. And we would be looking at each other being like, is this the one that we can't do?

And sometimes it's just the camera has to like latch on to the car and the fucking magnet keeps fritzing out. We're relying on technology to do what we want that isn't as reliable as you would hope it is sometimes. And sometimes it's just an actor keeps like missing the thing or tripping over the thing. Can you imagine if you fucked up your line twice? No.

I feel comfortable saying this because he's my dear friend, but David Krumholz is in a few episodes of the show. And there's a very complicated sequence of me injuring the Golden Globes. It literally starts in the limo and then I walk the whole red carpet and then I walk through the lobby. He's got a two joke, he's got to hit you with it.

Exactly, and then I walk through the ballroom. I'm interacting with a bunch of people throughout it. Adam Scott's in it, and Ike,ke and O'Hara and all these people. And the last moment is me and Krumholz. And it's like a three line exchange. And there's 500 extras, cars, limos, all this shit. And he's just got nine minutes sitting in a chair waiting to fuck up his line.

But he's probably getting so- Exactly, more and more nervous. He sees the machine coming towards him. Oh no! He might be holding his side somewhere. Yes, you see the train rolling down the tracks. And I will say God bless him because I would tell the actors, look, if you genuinely think you've thought of something

that is better than what we've written or additive and it comes to you in the moment, I want you to do it because I don't want it to be too rigid and I want it to feel alive, but just know if it's not good, it's fucked up everything. Workshopping in the makeup trailer. I'm trusting you to gauge in your own head whether or not you think I will think it's good enough

to warrant this risk you're taking. And Dave several times was just improvising stuff. And even he would do it. We would cut and he would just look at my face and be like, I should have said that. He is one of my favorites and he's spectacular in your show. He's so good on the show. He's one of the best.

And then he nailed it. I think some of our moments are some of the best moments of the show and we would put him in it more after that because it is so alive. And you do feel like I don't quite know what he's gonna do. And at its worst, the show in the earlier takes, that was always to me the scary zone is we would start to get it,

but it would just feel sort of rigid because everyone was too focused on hitting the mark and the timing and the camera went in the wrong place. And that's why it's good to have agents of chaos like Dave in there. In some ways just can't say the lines in the same way twice. And Han was like that too.

She would just say other stuff. And you could see there's like a moment where everyone's like, oh no, is this gonna cause a major problem? But then that becomes its own fun thing for you to play with, right? Very much so, yeah. It's just like, you're scared the whole time. Sure.

Characters are always scared. I'm actually stressed out. Yeah. I'm like quite on edge that we're not gonna get it. Oh, there's something so kids in a playground about it. That's what was also fun about it. It is how kids film things. You just point the camera at who's talking

and you walk around and that's it. And so there is that energy. It did feel a lot like that. It's a cool way to keep yourself interested after year 30. Exactly. It's like you gotta first choose something to wake yourself up a little bit. No, definitely. I'm afraid of the next show you do. It's underwater. What are we gonna do? You know what I heard is impossible? It's underwater.

It's all in space. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. if you dare. ["The Fable Men's Theme Song"] Me and Evan, we kept saying as we were doing it, we're like, this is one of the most creatively invigorating things we've done since we made Superbad. Wow. Yeah, how long did it take you

from start to finish writing it and then shooting it and finishing it? I was shooting The Fable Men's when I first thought of it. So that was two and a half years ago or something like that. And then it maybe took six months for us to start writing it. And then I think it took like a year of writing because we wrote the whole show basically

and then we shot the whole show. So not that long actually, like on the grand scale of things. No, with how intricate it is and how well done it is, any amount of time would not have shocked me. Okay, I hope you're able to do this. So the fucking appearances are one after another. Like Martin Scorsese's in it.

Steve Buscemi. Ron Howard's in it. Shirley's Thrones in it. Zac Efron's in it. Olivia Wilde's in it. Ice Cube's in it. It never stops. And when I'm watching that, I'm so happy for you. Because to me that is this crazy reflection of what you've built. You can call Martin Scorsese and he'll show up and do your thing. Call his manager. Ultimately he has to say yes. I've never met Martin Scorsese before. There's a lot of accomplishments on display.

There's the technical accomplishment, there's the writing, there's the life story of you and Evan, but also there's- The goodwill. Yes, what you've built goodwill-wise. Really it's all there. Part of my whole thesis in general is to try to over deliver. I don't take any success for granted

when we made this the end and all these things, we were just like, give people more than they're expecting. Don't tell them it's Hollywood and then have a few people and try to sell that as Hollywood. So that was something for us that was very important is we were like, if it's gonna be about Hollywood, you have to believe that these are the people a studio head would be excited by intimidated by wanting to impress wanting to befriend the actual people

who are in movies and we're not trying to tell you yeah this guy's in a movie this is the Tom Cruise of this show exactly we really didn't want to do that and Larry Sanders again was a thing that was hugely inspirational for that. Because as a kid, I remember Sean Penn's on it and Jim Carrey's on it and Tom Petty's on it and Elvis Costello's on it and all these great comedians or actors are on it. And I was like, that's part of the fun of it. They got them and it feels real as a result. There's so many that Kristen said to me mid episode, do you ever start feeling

offended you're not in something? Yeah. The whole time we're just like, I just hope this is easier the second season. She's also an acting robot. She would have killed those waters. She's built for a water. Also, we didn't want to only do people that we know

and that we work with. Exactly. And they're kind of like associated with us. So when it was kind of like a mix of people that we didn't even know that well. Do you have a relationship with Scorsese? I met him once for two seconds before this. That's so cool. It was a cold call. is kind of a mix of people that we didn't even know that well. Did you have a relationship with Scorsese? I met him once for two seconds before this.

That's so cool. It was a cold call. We really tried to make the roles good. Honestly, that was like a big part of it was even if you had one joke, we wanted it to be like a great moment and to not feel like you're just kind of there. And they're not just like extras in the scene.

Everyone has to have a moment that they can really sink their teeth into but it was really hard and we spent a ton of time rewriting the scripts for people. They want it to be good and once they commit to it they're like okay what if I do this and what if I do that. It was always very welcome. Everyone that came had some leverage. Everyone has leverage. You want them to think it's funny and that's the other thing is we're always just like we want you to be excited about this. Like we don't want you to feel like you're doing us a favor. We want you to feel like you're getting to do a thing

that you think is cool. It was by far one of the biggest challenges of the show was to get all these people and to schedule it and to not let them down, honestly. Did you find it hard to direct these huge people? Were you like, oh fuck, I gotta tell them? The answer is yes. I have to tell Barnes Scorsese what to do. It was different. Talking to the actors is the thing I struggle with. to direct these people where you're like, oh fuck, I gotta tell them. The answer's yes.

I have to tell Barnes course Sazy what to do. It was different. Talking to the actors is the thing I struggle with most as a director. And it's also because I'm an actor in the scenes and some actors just don't like to be directed by the other actors. Me and Olivia Wilde, we're talking about it.

Me and Evan would kind of do like a good cop, bad cop thing. I would be in the scenes and be like, great, perfect. And then I'd go to Evan and be like, tell him to slow down. She's not hitting her mark. She's not saying the sign properly. And she actually was the only one that clued into it, but it's really hard. I had to do a thing with Michael Pena and I didn't figure this out until like two

weeks into shooting, cause we're in every single scene together and I'm directing it and about two weeks in it occurred to me. He doesn't hear me give myself a note. All he hears is me say something to him. So like two weeks in, I go, I need you to know, after these takes, I go like, that was too slow. I gotta speed it up. I give myself notes and then I come to you.

I just want you to know, I don't think I'm doing it perfectly. I'm berating myself. And then I go on to you. I would have a hard time doing it alone. Having a partner makes it much easier, I think in a lot of ways. Cause they gotta be a little suspicious.

Like how the fuck does he know what happened? He's inside the scene with me. A thing that would happen is the people I was in the scenes with could tell when I just was dropped out. Cause I was also very aware where the camera was and what it was capturing at all times. So there'd be times I would just see like, oh, the camera guy, he just missed it.

You started talking too soon. So that's easy to call cut on, but I think the thing that would be hard, how on earth did you manage when someone did a shitty delivery of a line minute one of a five minute one or? Did you go like I'll just go through to the end or will I just be brave right now and say cut depends What take it was because also you got it to navigate just not bombing people out Yeah, that's like me and Evan talked a lot about that's like we actually learned a lot of improvisational comedy is it's a fine line between

Directing improv and just shutting people down. Sometimes we would let people go on these runs for 10 minutes, where we're just like, this isn't going to be in the fucking movie. But like they seem to really think it's funny. We'll get 10 other good things out of them today because we didn't tell them this sucked. And so that was math that would happen in our heads. Sometimes it was a hard reset.

I would stop early because I would just know like, oh, once this happens, it's going into a new zone. But that was something we were constantly navigating. Well, this is the most I've ever talked about a show Sometimes it was a hard reset. I would stop early because I would just know like, oh, once this happens, it's going into a new zone. But that was something we were constantly navigating. Well, this is the most I've ever talked about a show when someone was promoting a show, but I have still a couple more questions. One is the other thing that I became hyper aware of

is your own aesthetic, or at least what I think is your aesthetic, is really on fire. Every single house we go to is an architectural masterpiece. I complimented Seth's outfit when he got here. Very nice. Are those Bottega shoes?

Yes, yes, very nice. He's like a little style boy. You can do that when you don't have kids. You can spend all your money on clothes. Couches and clothes. It's a thing I'm like sort of making fun of myself with. I like all that stuff. Yeah.

And then of course for me, I got hyper focused on all the cars. So every episode, Matt Remick is driving a different 60s foreign car. There's an MG, then there's an old Merc, then he's in a 53 Vette. You don't have a car thing though, do you? I do like old cars. I don't have like a collection of old cars.

Do you have any old cars? I have a Carmen Ghia. That's perfect for you. Yes Yeah, I was student Baker lark not the one in the show But I have one like that one that we drive in the wonder if you ever ride an Avante Yeah, those are amazing. I like those. Oh add to the complexity. He's driving these old fucking 70 year old cars that are all stick shift up even in the water episode driveway for real I'm starting to think he's got his hands full,

he's directing this thing, I'm just driving that car. And I'm driving so fast in that episode. Ike was so scared the whole time we were doing it. And you have to look on your face when you drive. Ike started clocking it, you almost like licked your lips as you're navigating. It's also, there's a giant fucking camera right there.

You can't see it. You can't see it. You're in an irreplaceable car, if you fuck it up, you're down for the day. It's what we made this in the end, honestly. We were designing the house for the movie to be set in. And at first the joke was like, it's a douchey over the top overly stylish house.

And by the end I was just like, oh no, I just made my dream house. Yes, yes. You're like Nancy Meyers in this way. It worked in both ways though. To the average viewer, it was a douchey over the top house. And to me, it was my dream house. And so that philosophy carried through.

We never joked about a lot. A lot of my memories in Hollywood are being in beautiful places with beautifully dressed people, screaming at each other about the stupidest shit ever. And that was like an energy we wanted to capture. It's glamorous and it's institutional and it's been here for decades.

And great architects have built these homes that people live in and they're these beautiful homes and then you're in there just like screaming at each other about like how much of the guy's balls you can show. Amy Pascal, this like gorgeous architectural house and the studios are very beautiful. Is this real? No, we built that completely.

Okay, I got really angry because we're watching it and you seem to be on Warner Brothers for lots of this show. And there's a Frank Lloyd Wright building. In the show, the idea is that Frank Lloyd Wright designed the main offices for this building. In the Mayan period. Yeah, exactly, it's like Mayan revival.

So I was like, I fucking worked on that lot for two years and I missed. There's a Frank Lloyd Wright building. I was like, I was angry, I was beating myself up for having missed that. So that's entirely fabricated. Entirely fake. Oh wow. Thank God. Because I could see where it was positioned. I could see that. It's where the Warner Brothers sit. Yeah for sure. You kind of buy into it. It's like oh yeah I could see that at Sommar. It was part of the idea of making it seem like old and monumental. A lot of these studios are gorgeous. The Paramount offices are beautiful. The Columbia offices are these like art deco marvels. So much artistic thought went into the building and then inside they're making decisions of all time. They're so bucking against any creative freedom as they're standing in these like

cathedrals of cinema that people were given free reign to make beautiful. But I'm just a huge architecture fan and I love Frank Lloyd Wright buildings in LA especially and they are all this Mayan revival but there's a great documentary love Frank Lloyd Wright buildings in LA especially and they are all this mind revival But there's a great documentary about Frank Lloyd Wright and it talks about how all of his buildings in Los Angeles are essentially uninhabitable Because he had suffered like a terrible family tragedy before he came to LA and they are all very Tomb-like this one right down the street the black dolly house. Yeah, exactly constantly being run they have like a sarcophagus-esque vibe to them.

And to us, that was a funny work environment for a lot of reasons, because it feels very old and it feels like we're trying to uphold the days that have gone by institution. We're like encased in this tomb, basically. A big cement blob, really. But it's also kind of beautiful. And all the houses in the show are John Lautner houses,

who is a student of Frank Lloyd Wright. A lot of his houses are in movies. In Lethal Weapon 2, the Garcia house is a John Lautner house. who was a student of Frank Lloyd Wright. A lot of his houses are in movies. In Lethal Weapon 2, the Garcia house is a John Lautner house. So yeah, we also like this idea that it was an architect whose work is in film. And a lot of the music in the show is from other movies. Chinatown.

Yeah, we use the Chinatown score. We use the long goodbye music. I also started adding up your budget as I was watching. I was like, okay, he got a nice. It was pretty good. This show, this show's not a cheap show. Just keep buying those iPhones. Please, please, please.

I always ask this when we have people who are in a parade of partnerships where one person's more of the face. And same with Ike and Dave. Has there ever been tension there? He doesn't give a fuck. It occurred to me on this interview, Monica, I was like, it's time the next time says here.

We need to have that. We need to have that. interview, Monica, I was like, it's time the next time says here. We need to have Evan in here. Get Evan in here. Yeah, wouldn't you want to? Would he be up for that? Totally. I was like, is this how I'm starting to feel immoral for us to not include Evan? Whenever I'm on Howard Stern,

he's also fascinated with Evan, and he's always like, what is his deal? Yeah. The fact that Evan has no desire to be in front of the camera, I think is an instrumental part of our dynamic, and that he is not jealous. If anything, he's like, I'm so glad I don't have to do all the stuff that I have to do as the performer in the things.

Because sometimes that gets tricky. We had also Phineas with Billy, obviously. I was like, how are you guys doing it in a way that, but some people just don't care. But it's also reflective of us personally. Well, yeah, of course I care. It's always interesting. Of course I find it interesting. Because it's also reflective of us personally. Well yeah, of course I care. It's always interesting. Of course I find it interesting. Because it's not that easy for us.

It's a little more complicated, I think. I know so many partnerships that have broken up over the years and more than haven't actually. Right. I know a lot of teams that have split up. We had a therapist actually say to us, we were producing a show. Things were getting real hairy for a second there.

And she looked at us and she said, you guys are in the Beatles. Look what you guys get to do and what you make. Don't break up the Beatles. Don't fuck it up. Don't fuck it up. That's really great. Thank you for saying that out loud.

Yes, that's true. Yeah, it's true, but when you're in it, you can feel like, I'm not getting this recognition. I'm not getting this. I could see for Evan or Dave or for Phineas, like no one knows what I'm doing. Maybe they don't. But it's interesting,

because Phineas doesn't have that. Some people have it. He knows damn well what he's doing. Yeah, Evan too. He doesn't care at all. He does get a lot of credit for some of the stuff. I'm sure he's got a really nice house. Great.

He'll probably leave his kids some money. Exactly. Well, Phineas said something really interesting. He said, actually, I get attention, but it matters that Billy gives me the recognition. If she wasn't doing it, then yeah, I'd have a problem with it. If within the partnership, there wasn't that acknowledgement.

Definitely. I feel very fortunate about it. And it's not lost on us. We recognize it. We are like, isn't it great that we still like each other? We still work together well, and his life is very different than mine in many ways, and we've found ways to navigate that.

You know, he has kids and I act sometimes. We both have things that pull us away from just writing and directing together, but we've never really had any issue. I feel very lucky about it. It's very fortunate. Okay, last question. In the show, you're acknowledging the real context

of our industry, which is like, movies are harder and harder to get to make money. It's just gotten more stressful. They make less movies, less of them work. The whole thing's terrifying. You perfectly pivoted into TV, and I wonder, do you consciously do that, or did it just accidentally happen?

When I look at a lot of your peers, you somehow went perfectly into doing virtually what you were doing in movies and TV. It was sort of conscious. I think what's good is we are also able to keep making movies just in a different way than we did before. Yeah, but like making a $30 million comedy

that's gonna make 120, that's just off the table. Ninja Turtles to us is a movie that we can write that's like a high school comedy that is really fun and we love it. But in order to make that movie now, it has to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And it's a lot of ideas that we would put into any movie, but it's just like, oh. Or Barbie for me. That's a comedy. That's a straight up comedy. I think we've always been realistic as to what the market wants and can bear. We may knocked up and super bad, but very quickly we were like,

we got to add machine guns and car chases to this shit, or it's going to start to feel the same. And after that, we're like, Oh, we got to add like demons and monsters and meta celebrity in order for this to feel new and relevant. I don't know if we've ever spent that much time lamenting the trends and instead have tried to really see what is working and work through that. So with television, that for sure was like a conscious thing. We're like, oh, now you can do shit in television.

That used to be the stuff we did in movies. And it's different, but it's kind of the same. Yeah, now on the other side of all of it, and as much as I lamented the disappearance of all that, and I suffered, I've made movies that didn't work in this fucking era, I also recognize I am so glad The Boys isn't a movie. Yeah.

So on the other side of it, have you found making TV is just as fun or even more? I mean, we had so much fun with this show. I've always been able to really wrap my head around writing movies, and I actually think writing TV and movies are very different, as is evidenced by the fact that there are brilliant TV writers who write terrible movies,

and brilliant movie writers who write terrible movies and brilliant movie writers who make terrible TV shows. They are not the same skill set. And I actually did always find, I struggled to be a meaningful contributor on a lot of our TV shows because I think the thing that I had a hard time wrapping my head around was this seven hour movie idea. And then with the studio, one of the big revelations for me was like, no,

it is not a serialized show. It's very episodic. Oh, I can actually really wrap my head around one 30 minute movie, basically. Something with a beginning, middle, end, a set up and a payoff. That's the thing that is exciting about television is you can sort of create your own type of narrative

and they're just much more open to risk. I mean, in the eighties, maybe this would have been a movie in the seventies, but this was conceived of for TV, knowing this is not at all the type of thing that they would make into a movie, but this is exactly the kind of thing that they would make into a well-budgeted TV show. But we still have movie ideas.

We are working on movies and we would like to keep making movies, but we just try to be realistic. I saw one of them days with Kiki, Paul Martin, and SZA, yeah. And it was fucking hilarious and it did well. R-rated comedy, I saw it in the full theater and I was like, it works, it can still work. I just saw Judd give an interview where he was saying,

like, if the hangover came out today, it would fucking annihilate. I think it's a trend. I do think it ebbs and flows. There are moments where all seems lost. And then Barbie comes out. And then a movie comes out where you're like, oh no, like people are into this stuff.

But also I'm watching Fall Guy and I'm like, this movie is flawless. It's got everything you would ever want. This thing should make half a billion dollars globally. It's just too expensive. That's the thing you have to be smart about also. And that's the thing we've always tried to really consider is you have to be realistic about what your movie costs

and what you're asking of people. If I was making what was essentially a romantic comedy, I would not spend 80, 90, $100 million on it. I'd try to spend like 20, $30 million on it. That's always been part of our philosophy, but we're never as existential about it, I feel like as some people get. Cause I think I've personally seen these trends ebb and flow

just throughout the time I've been here. You know, and like Sandler makes movies that are on Netflix, but they're great and people love them. And if I was out to dinner with Aziz and we just were talking about comedy and the waitress was there and she's like, who's the best comedian alive right now? Adam Sandler. Without skipping a second. She said it or you guys? She said it. She said it.

We were like, we don't get an obligatory nod. Yeah, we're right in front of you. without skipping a second. She said it or you guys? She said it. She said it. We were like, we don't get an obligatory nod. Yeah. Right in front of you. Those things give me hope. People still like these things. People always will want a comedy movie. Just the system has crumbled a little bit.

When I was younger, you could write a funny movie, they would buy it and then cast it. That doesn't happen very much anymore. Now they want you to have everyone attached, but actors don't want to get attached. Kind of rightfully so, because you're exposing yourself. And if you attach yourself to a thing and no one buys it, then you could feel as though that's a knock on your career.

You don't have any capital. Exactly, but also that shouldn't be the system. The studio should just buy a script if they like it. And trust me, once that movie exists and is going to be made, you will be able to cast it. Actors who are great, who know it's a real thing, who aren't exposing themselves and their name instead of studios doing what they should do, which is buy and develop films and then decide which ones to make and then cast them and hire directors and make them. That system has gone away a little bit and I think that's out of

just pure terror and risk mitigation and panic and all the stuff that is in the show and it's people thinking that that will give them a more sure bet but it's also negating the entire system that's in place of like executives developing ideas that are hopefully good and working with talent that is hopefully good. Well, I love it, man. I'm so glad that I got to see all of that. That's so nice of you. I really appreciate it. It comes out on March 26th on Apple Plus and it's spectacular. And this is number three and I can't wait for number four.

We'll get Evan in here. Yeah, we have space. You do. Yes. here. Yeah. Get Evan in. We have space. You do, I'll tell him. Yes, yes. Tell him there's a seat waiting for him. All right, well thanks for coming in, those two boys. Thanks for having me, that was great. Hi there, this is Hermiam Hermiam.

If you like that, you're gonna love the fact check. Miss Monica. Wah! Oh. Oh! Okay. Ah! Oh. Oh! Okay. Ah! Oh!

Ah! Oh my gosh. You're excited, because you're getting a boat today. Not today, but. Oh, you're getting a boat. By the time this is out. It's Christmas for this little boy, and he's so excited. For the gear head,

I'm gonna have my first pontoon boat. You're very excited. For the year ahead, I'm gonna have my first pontoon boat. You're very excited. It's gorgeous. I can't, Monica, the leaps that have been made in the pontoon world, I could bore you for hours. Then see, Sim. Why? Because by the time you got your boat,

it's the best, it's much better. Don't look at me like that. Oh, I got you. I thought you were gonna say by the time I get it, like I receive it tomorrow, but yes. By the time I got in the market for, yes. There was a huge leap forward. Let me hit you with some of the feature.

Okay, let's hear it. Pontoon, I grew up on a pontoon boat. Dave Barton, my sweet stepdad, he had himself a pontoon boat. Two steel pontoons on the bottom. What is a pontoon? A pontoon boat, two steel pontoons on the bottom. What is a pontoon? A pontoon's a big steel. Rod.

What would I say, pontoon? I mean, I don't know what other word to use. If you could picture a kayak, but completely sealed and it's stainless steel or aluminum, and you have two in the water and then there's a flat deck. So it doesn't have like a hole, it's not made out of fiberglass like a normal boat.

It's just got these two pontoons and then a big flat deck on top. They're ideal for maximum passengers. Right. But what I got is called a tritune, Monica. They've added a third pontoon in the middle of the boat. It's very buoyant. And then it has these little runners on the side

that actually lift it out of the water at speed. So less drag. Okay. Barton's pontoon, which this was standard, you generally have like a 50 horsepower Johnson outboard motor. That sounds lovely. And you'd go, it could maybe go 13 miles an hour. Oh, that sounds great.

I thought you just said 50 miles. With a tailwind. That's Barton's boat. But now we're up to tri-tune with the elevation. Mine has a 400 horsepower V10 on the back. So eight times the amount of motor that Barton's. So how fast is it gonna go? I think it'll go about 55 miles an hour. I thought you just said his went 50 miles an hour.

15, 13 with a tailwind. That's why I got you these one five, not five zero. It sounded like 50. Full ski rig on it so I can pull skiers, tubers, everything you used to want a speedboat for is available on this with 13 passengers. Wow. Oh, money!

The sound system is off the charts. We're gonna be dancing on this motherfucker. That's really fun. Oh. Boat culture is- I'm new to it. You're not new to it. Well, I'm not new to it this motherfucker. That's really fun. Oh. Boat culture is. I'm new to it. You're not new to it. Well, I'm not new to it, but as an owner.

Sure, sure. Shout out Ken Kennedy. He's my, he's my brains. I'm like, I'm getting a punch. He's like, well, you need, these are the two brands. They need found ways. This one's pretty perfect. You gotta get the easy top.

I'm gonna add one more thing that'll bore everyone to tears. The pain of owning a boat. Anyone who owns one will know. We can't talk about the negative. I'm gonna. The worst part of owning a boat is that when you're done driving it,

you have to take the cover and put it back over so that the cabin's completely covered. And there's all these snaps and it never fits right. And it's like a fucking 15 minute ordeal every time you get off the boat. So then you get lazy and you go, I'm going back out in a couple hours, I'm not gonna put the cover on.

And then you don't put the cover on. And then the interior of the boat just gets destroyed and you're slowly destroying this boat. It's the big problem with owning a boat. Mine has an easy cover. Monica, it's a remote control. So when we're driving, I have three options, Bimini. I can have the front of the boat in shade,

the back fully exposed to sun, if that's your jam. The back fully shaded in the front open to sun, bathing. Or full open, so total shade. And then when I get back, I hit a button, the whole fucking top drops down and seals the whole top as if I put the cover on and snapped it with a button. Again, that didn't exist. That's really privileged.

It's so privileged. And it didn't exist five years ago. Exactly. I waited just long enough to get into this pontoon game. I think one of the best things in life is to have experts in your life. I mean, this is, I guess, what we've accumulated over the past seven years. It's part of the joy is you get experts in your life in different areas.

So you always have some, I mean, you don't like asking for help, but I love asking for help. And I like asking the smartest, best, most knowledgeable person for help. So it's just accumulating a mass of people who are the best. Saves you a lot of time. So much, in fact, last night, I reached out to someone, an expert, a medical expert. Oh. That we met here in this job

for help with an important question. Perimenopause question? No. Okay. But I am gonna, I am gonna Thanks Mary Claire. Something did come up that I was like, Ooh, I need to ask her about that. How receptive were they?

Extremely. Ah. Nice to, okay. I guess I'll say it. I wonder if I should say it. I think I can. So I was listening to, nobody's listening, right? Elizabeth and Andy.

Elizabeth was telling a story about her taking her son to urgent care. The doctor comes in and the description of the doctor is very unsettling. Okay. Extremely. Beard, eye patch and a hook? I think would be better.

Okay. I mean, I've been watching a lot of The Pit and ER. Yeah, and ER. You're pretty... I'm in this, I know what's going on. Yes. He has a drug problem. Okay, sure.

I really do think so. Oh, okay. He was like, over his scrubs, wearing this puffy vest, it was all stained. Oh, fuck. And then he was wearing, his mask was stained. Oh, Jesus. And then he was incoher, his mask was stained. And then he was like incoherent.

Okay, CTE. Probably, yeah. So anyway, she is telling this story and I was like, oh my God. And so I texted her and I said, Elizabeth, you need to report him. Oh, report him. Yeah, I was like, I really, I just think,

because she obviously has the ability to say like, I'm gonna get my kid out of here and I'm gonna take him to another doctor. But a lot of people there don't. And they're just gonna have to take this doctor at face value. And so I texted Elizabeth, I said, I really, not to scare you, but I think you need to report this.

I'm watching ER and like, it's bad. And Pitt. Yeah, and also the Pitt. And Chicago Hope. Oh my God, something so exciting happened. I thought I was done with the Pitt. Like I thought it's bad. And Pitt. Yeah, and also The Pitt. And Chicago Hope. Oh my God, something so exciting happened. I thought I was done with The Pitt. Like I thought it was over and it's not. It's ongoing? Yes.

Oh my gosh. So then I got to watch another episode. Oh, congratulations. Thank you, I was so excited. Anyway, so I DMed a old guest of ours and said, what do I do if, yeah, is there a way to report? He helped me, he gave me some resources.

So I sent them to Elizabeth. We'll see, TBD. Speaking of ER. Yeah, you were. Ha ha, continue. When you're the one speaking of it, you can just continue speaking of it. I wasn't speaking of it.

It came up so naturally. Literally, what have I said? Speaking of pontoon boats. Okay, so speaking of ER. Guess who was on. I posted about this. Oh, Dr. Adam. Dr. Adam.

Dr. Adam Scott. Dr. Adam Scott. He was a little patient in there. He was only in the very beginning of the episode. Was he great, of course? Of course he's great. But he's so young and I was staring and I was like, is that Adam?

He had a neck brace on and he was being brought in. So it was kind of hard to tell. And so I had to wait till the credits to double check and it was him. And then he needed a freeze frame and a photo and a post. Of course. Yeah, naturally. He's a friend of the pod. Gotta promote his episode of ER.

Yeah, and then the episode before that, another friend of the pod, Bradley Whitford, saddest episode of, eh, top three saddest episodes of ER total. Okay, ding, ding, ding. Bradley Whitford was on an episode of Brooklyn Nine-Nine that they were watching yesterday. Oh!

That show is way, way funnier than I had guessed it was. It's quite, quite, quite funny. It's a very good show. Mike Schur, he doesn't fuck up. No. Speaking of Mike Schur. Speaking of ER. Speaking of Mike Schur, I was watching ER last night.

Have you guys seen this show Adolescents? That's on Netflix. Oh, so it keeps getting recommended to me. Have you watched it? I've heard it's amazing. I've seen half of it. It's all one-ers also. Oh.

It's one-hour one-ers. And isn't it like really intense? It's about a boy that, like 13 year old boy that stabs a little girl and it's his dad like dealing with it. Yes, I've heard, there's all these articles that say it's flawless. Okay, I'm gonna do it.

Maybe when I'm driving the bus home, I'll plow through the whole season. This seems a little intense to watch while you're driving. It's four episodes. Four episodes only. Oh, it's only four episodes. Hour long. Okay, so that'll get me 280 miles.

Why don't you just watch it tonight? Because I have to get in the car at 5 a.m. tomorrow to go to the airport. So I'm not gonna watch anything tonight. Why don't you just try? Okay, I'll watch it tonight. Okay. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Okay. Okay. Let's get serious. Let's get serious. Seth Rogen. So serious. Yeah, she's so serious. I love Seth Rogen.

Me too. Okay. Now, does History of Violence have staircase sex? Yes. Top 10 movies that have staircase sex. I love that. I love that. I love that.

I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that. with Rogan. Me too. Okay, now does history of violence have staircase sex? Yes. Top 10 movies that have stair sex. Oh, okay, great. Now, I think it's worth us revisiting, you did bring up that you'd rather have sex on a unicycle than on the stairs.

Absolutely. And not only would I rather, it's a personal goal power. You want to. Once I thought of it. it, I would love that. Talk about a high wire act. I mean, the stakes would be so high. If everyone reached orgasm in that dynamic,

I bet it would be explosive. Cause you'd be scared you're gonna fall and get a concussion. Okay, I just feel like you wouldn't be able to fully let yourself go. That's the challenge. Okay. Yeah history of violence Close enough to touch never heard a woman in the mirror X-deal these I know I am worried about

Worried about that, but I don't know Spanish fly Okay, let's talk about Spanish fly. Okay teach us about Spanish fly cuz I didn't know you didn't know what Spanish fly was And you taught me in Spanish Spanish Fly, and again, I've got to be very, very clear about this. This was not, this is a urban legend. Yeah, it's not real. All growing up, I knew about Spanish Fly. And it wasn't a drug that would knock women out

so you could rape them. Let's just be very clear. It was not- It's not roofie. This was a magic pill you would give girls that would make them super horny and they would find you irresistible. Yeah, it's more like a witchy thing, like a love spell.

And probably still some deception, but anyways, that's a urban legend that there's a pill. And then the other one that I was always told growing up, most of my brother told me this, is that actors to prevent getting erections took saltpeter. And I don't know if saltpeter's real and it really does prevent you from getting an erection. Rob, will you do a perfunctory search of saltpeter?

Tassium nitrate, component of gunpowder. Gunpowder? It's been used to prevent blowing up hard cheeses. Wait, do we want to- Prevented from what? Blowing up hard cheeses? Bl blowing up hard cheeses. Prevented from what? Blowing up hard cheeses? Blowing up hard cheeses. It makes hard cheese soft. Let me search erections.

Yeah, do saltpeter's erections. The belief that saltpeter can suppress erections is a myth. There's no scientific evidence. So good, I said it was the equivalent is saltpeter. This is like Marilyn Manson's ribs. Yeah. Okay.

But this is worth noting that we were doing an episode of Armchair Anonymous yesterday. And it had occurred to me that I had had sex in a stairwell. Exactly. And last time we fought, we fought about this because you thought it was crazy that I said, I think I would rather,

I would definitely rather have sex on the stairs than a unicycle. And then you thought that was crazy. And then it turns out you've done it. Well, hold on. I don't think you would, because you have to imagine how painful it is to have three thin points of contact on your body.

So your own weight on these three very hard, tiny points of contact on your body, so your own weight on these three very hard, tiny points of contact, then someone else's weight and thrusting on you, it would be insanely painful. I would expect the guy to kind of prop themselves up also on the stairs, so they're not slant, they're not like, whole body weight is on mine. I think you'd be surprised at how good I am

at lying on the stairs. I would be quite surprised because I don't know how you get around the fact that you have these three points of contact. Better, huge improvement. But anyway, someone said, well, I bet a lot of people have had sex in stairwells. And then I realized, oh, I had done that.

What a blessing. One of the real blessings of my life. No, don't say that. No, I had done that. What a blessing, one of the real blessings of my life. No, don't say that. Yes! No, don't say that. Why? You have children. One of, not the blessing of my life.

One of how many? I've had hundreds of blessings in my life. And this is one of them. I was gambling in Las Vegas at the Luxor Casino in my 20s. And I met a very attractive woman from Australia. Oh my God. Yes, and after a couple hours of flirting and drinking at the blackjack table, we excused ourselves.

Her request. Her request led Her request. Spanish Fly. Led me. Did you? No. Are you sure? Saltpeter.

Led me to the staircase at the Luxor, the stairwell, which is a very weird staircase because it's diagonal. That's right. Diagonally. Diagonally. Diagonally. It is a pyramid shape.

Yes, so the staircase is going up like an MC Escher situation. But again, that was not on the stairs, that was like more leaning over one of the railings. Sure. Listen, what if you had taken Saltpeter and she had taken Spanish Fly? That's a match made in hell. That's a bad match.

That's the worst. That was me on coke, to be fully honest with you. Yeah, everyone's horny and then I can't perform. Why? That's so weird that then you loved that drug because you loved having sex. I told you that's when, I mean, there were numerous times where I had to acknowledge what a problem it had become.

But yes, there was a moment where I was at a bar and I decided, I told the dude like, oh, get the guy and let's get an eight ball. And there was a girl there that liked me. I was at a bar and I decided, I told the dude like, oh, get the guy and let's get an eight ball. And there was a girl there that liked me. And I was like, this is something. You would rather do that drug than have sex with this attractive person.

And I previously that would have thought there was nothing I would wanna do more than have sex with an attractive person. And you'd rather poop in the bed. Say what? You're just like grabbing, you're grabbing from everywhere. Speaking of ER. So.

No, you did poop in the bed once. That's not relevant to this conversation. But you were on coke. Yes, an excessive amount. So that's my point. Anywho, I'm glad for you that you had sex in the stairwell. Me too, me too, one of the blessings. But.

There's blessings all around if you keep your eyes open. I guess that's right. If she remembers me and she's hearing this, thank you so much, what a great memory. No? No, yeah, I just had like a very prudish judgment. Oh, cool, what was it about? Just sex? No, it was just like, I don't think she's okay.

Oh my God, Monica. You know, I'm sorry you asked and I wanted to be honest. I just- Bloodshaming. No, I know, that's why. I'm glad you're owning it. I said it was a prudish judgment. Yeah.

And it's not necessarily true, but- You can imagine how- What if you would kill her like what? What I was a nice boy You know right? I don't think the murderers like that's not how it works with murderers They're not like you know what I'm gonna go gambling if I meet someone who wants to fuck in the stairwell I might murder them. I don't think that's how it works. No, that's not how it works. They're there knowing they're gonna be charming and Ted Bundy. I don't even think murderers are gambling

and having fun and getting drunk. No, they are to lure. They're in their grandma's underpants. No, not Ted Bundy. Like Brad Pitt said in Seven. Oh yeah. Oh. Not Ted Bundy, he was hot and out and about.

He was in a cast hanging out by cars, acting like he couldn't get his crutches or something. Whatever, he was hot and out and about. He was in a cast hanging out by cars, acting like he couldn't get his crutches or something. Whatever, he was still playing it, he was still luring. He was playing a victim and luring people. You don't think anyone's been lured? Please, that's what roofing, that's what a lot of roofing is at bars. Okay, we're talking about, no, we're talking,

we're talking about killers. Yeah. And we're talking about roofing. Well, rape is. And we're talking about me playing blackjack in Vegas. No, I'm saying, okay, I'm saying that just cause you're having fun in a bar and you're fun doesn't mean you're safe.

Well, I was though. I know, I'm not talking about you anymore, okay? I'm not talking about you. Okay okay? I'm not talking about you. Okay. You're just saying there could be someone drinking at the blackjack table who's a killer. Yeah, or a rapist. And then they're using that method to meet people

that they'll kill. Or rape. Right, and they'll be on all the Vegas cameras with a ton of documentation. You're gonna get in so much trouble for this. And a lot of documentation that You're gonna get in so much trouble for this. And a lot of documentation that they were talking to their victim.

It'd be a really dumb serial killer to get their victims in a Vegas casino because it's so filmed. Okay. Well, I just- Do you wanna be out in the woods in a parking lot with a cast on and some- No, a lot of, no.

They act like they're gonna hook up with someone and then they rape them or kill them. This is common. So my point is, I just don't know if she's still with us. I think she is, she was really a cool, smart, I'm sure she was. But you can imagine how neatly it filed into my whole thing about Anglos, right?

Cause the only other really time that that had happened in such an aggressive manner was when I was in 10th grade, the aforementioned snowboard trip story with my friend from Manchester. Right, that was in a stairwell too? No, but it was an English gal, and now I had an Australian gal, and I was like, something's going on with these gals.

They're very assertive. Right, right, right. Yeah, it funneled nicely into my stereotype. Right, okay, oh my God, it funneled nicely into my stereotype. Right, okay. Oh my God, the next movie is Impulse. The Thomas Crown Affair. Oh, there we go. That's my favorite.

Serve the people, Misty the Room. Okay, so I have heard of three of those 10 movies. Yeah, me too. Okay, existing record for a one-er. Several movies have been filmed to appear as if they are shot in one continuous uninterrupted take, including 1917, Birdman, Children of Men, Silent House. Okay, now hold on, I'm gonna pull up another article here.

Okay. Goodfellas. Yeah. That's three minutes. Feels so much longer. Yeah, well it was early, it was early days of winners. Creed, four minutes. Atonement, five and a half minutes.

Children of Men, six minutes. 1917, eight minutes. Extraction, 12 minutes. Extraction, 12 minutes. Birdman, 15 minutes. Now we're talking. Gravity, 17 minutes. Ooh, we're climbing. Boiling Point, 92 minutes.

Was Boiling Point a John Woo movie? Nope, it's Stephen Graham from adolescence, isn't it? No! He's the lead in it. That's so sim. But a London restaurant. Oh my God, I'm cutting that. Gaby said I'm cutting that.

Too scary when I'm cutting it. Too much. That's too much. Russian Ark, 96 minutes. Wow, they're so rewarding when you are directing one and everything goes right. Yeah. Nothing really feels like that.

Stunt, like when a stunt goes right, that's a really, the hardest I've ever celebrated was in chips. When my friend drove a Humvee through a motor home and drove it right through the center of it and broke it in half and made it through the other side at full speed as explosions were going off. I was on the Sixth Street Bridge

and I screamed with elation like you can't imagine. A little highlight of another blessing of my life. There's a lot of stunt people in your movie. Yeah. And chips? Yeah. Oh yeah, the whole fucking movie. There's like 100 people.

Stunts. So many stunts. I'm listed as a stunt performer for Michael Pena. That's, he did Brown Face. I did all the driving in his getaway car scene. That's appropriation. I didn't do Brown Face, I just went to a tanning, spray tanning, and went too far.

Okay, that's it for Seth. We love Seth. Oh God, we love him. I can't wait for number four. Me too. Bye. Bye, love you. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Love you. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey.