Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Shaquille O'Neal

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

Shaquille O'Neal (Shaq's Scholars Campus Scholarship and Mentorship Program) is a 4x NBA champion, sports analyst, and philanthropist. Shaquille joins the Armchair Expert to discuss discovering his love languages, how he learned to tame his inner bully with silliness, and why a nuclear physicist is who taught him how to accept criticism. Shaq and Dax talk about the incredible highs that followed the lows of his life, how he unwinds now by going to a hookah bar, and navigating the fine line between pain relief and addiction. Shaquille explains how beating Michael Jordan was a teaching moment, learning early on to appreciate the people that make you who you are, and the impetus for partnering with Campus.edu was advice he received to invest in things that change people’s lives.Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by the miniature mouse from Duluth. Hi. We're in a foreign location. That's right.

And I want to thank from the bottom of my heart, Dr. Mike. He's not only gorgeous, he's generous. He's kind. He's smart. And this is his studio. He's got it all. And we needed a place to record in New York. And he was so gracious in offering us this.

So thank you. And it's a beautiful studio. It's a beautiful studio. Very, very nice. Well appointed. I had a nice espresso while we interviewed our guest. And our guest, speaking of which is our biggest guest of all time. That's right.

At 7 foot one. That's right. Shaquille O'Neill. Oh, my God. Shaquille O'Neal, four-time NBA champion. First round, draft pick, multiple MVP, one of the only three or four players that ever got MVP in the season, the playoffs, and the All-Star game. Just one of the best to do it. He is the most dominant.

And he has, he's an investor in this really kind of incredible new venture called campus, which gets folks who traditionally would not have gone to college, makes it incredibly easy for them, helps them get funding. it's awesome. And that's what we're here to talk about. And if you would like to apply for one of the many Shack Scholarships that are being given out, go to shackscholars.compancus.companse. That's shackscholars.companus.com.edu. Please enjoy the most effervescent NBA player of all time. Searching for a romantic summer getaway. Escape with Rich Girl Summer, the new audible original from Lily Chew. The exquisitely talented Philippa Sue, returning to narrate her fifth Lily Chew title. This time, Philippa is joined by her real-life husband, Stephen Pasquale, set in Toronto's

wealthy cottage country, aka the Hamptons of Canada. Rich Girl Summer follows the story of Valerie, a down-on-her-luck event planner, posing as a socialite's long-lost daughter, while piecing together the secrets surrounding a mysterious family and falling deeper and deeper in love with the impossibly hard to read and infuriatingly handsome family assistant, Nico. Caught between pretending to belong and unexpectedly finding where she truly fits in, Valerie learns her summer is about to get far more complicated than she ever planned. She's in over her head and head over heels. Listen to Rich Girl Summer now on Audible.

Go to audible.com slash rich girl summer. Think about the most disturbing government secrets you've learned from history. Now imagine discovering one that begins in a hospital room and leads straight to classified military operations that were buried for decades. Listen to a redacted medical mystery, a special episode from Redacted and Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries, available now, wherever you get your podcasts. He's an archa expert. You look like a lawyer. Me? Yeah, you look very, very smart. I take that as a compliment.

She's extremely intelligent, Shaq. I do like to argue as well, so I could have been a lawyer. Very argumentative. What do you argue about? We argue about anything. You can throw anything at us, and we'll probably have a different opinion on it. Is this guy blue? Who knows?

How could we possibly know? Okay, you wouldn't remember meeting me. First of all, you used to live across the street from Tom Arnold. I do. And I used to go over to his house. And I think you had just gotten one of those. like three-wheeler, spider-type fucking motorcycle deals. That was you?

That was me, baby. And then that's not the good one. The good one was we were walking to the village, Bruin, Westwood, to a movie premiere. And I'm behind you on a sidewalk. And I've only met you once in Tom Arnold's driveway. And this is a huge swing. You're in front of me. And I say to you, hey, I'm the biggest person at these things.

You got to go home or something, making a joke. And you turned around. And at that time, you recognized me. And you picked me up like a little tiny baby. Like under my armpits And you lifted me off the ground And I almost said we I was like oh my guy

I felt like this in 30 years I'm a baby That's so fun You never get to feel like a baby I rewatched The doc I've been trying to get you For like three years

Because the shack doc On HBO is one of my favorites I've ever seen You've been trying to get me How long? It's called DM Fuck I didn't even think the DM You're reading the DMs

I would have got to you? Fuck, okay Yeah we've tried all the other route. Good tip. Yeah, so I just been wanting to do this for three years. I thought that turned out so good. Did you like that? I never watched it. Tell me why. Never watched myself. Ever. Accidentally, I may see myself, but I don't shoot something and then. Let me see it. Yeah. Edit it this way. Never been that person. You know, when you're taught by Army drill sergeant, never to rest on your laurels, never to be satisfied. Once I finish your project, I'm on to the next.

Because I know that one day, projects may not be there. So I'm happy to just keep it moving. I mean, I always say to myself as motivational. I'm 53. In seven summers, will I still be shooting 20, 30 commercials in a row? Who knows? So while I have this opportunity to continue to work, I just like working. Because one day, and, you know, it happens to all of us.

We get older. One day, they may say, you know, you're too old. We want to move younger and may have to retire, retire. So I just like working. What scares you about retiring? What I want to say I'm scared is just to live the wonderful life, but seven summers, I'll be 60. I just can remember 18, 20, 25, 30. And you start playing the game, right?

Like, I got to do something on that summer. So if I wait to 75 to have my summer, and I can't do anything, I can't go on a jet ski or something. Exactly. So I'm just trying to, I was looking a little bit like Charles Barkley. So I'm starting to really take the anti-aging thing seriously, really starting to get in shape. I see a 4.8 pack. So I'm going to try to get up to an eight pack by the end of the summer. I usually work and then take the summer off and just do whatever.

But, you know, I have to change my routine. Trying to get my championship mental focus back was really out of shape. And I started having some health problems. But now I'm starting to get back on track. I'm shocked you didn't watch the doc, though, because if I were you, I would have watched it because you were pretty honest, not pretty. You were really, really honest and open. And definitely we got some stuff.

from you that we hadn't seen prior to that. And I think I would have been like, I need to see how that turned out. I was pretty vulnerable in that. I was pretty honest. How did that look? I mean, I've always tried to be honest with people. People always ask me, you endorse so many products. It's not that I endorse so many products.

I endorse products that I believe in. If I don't believe in the product, I can't get in front of camera and sell it to you. It's unethical and it's just not right. Yeah, you were offered Wheaties, right? Yes. And you're like, I never fucked with Wheaties. I'm never going to fuck with Wheaties. I'm a frosted flakes guy.

Fronter plates and then fruit loops. We intersected at fruity pebbles. That's my indulgence. That's right. One of the things I was blown away with, I think, because I have currently a 10 and a 12-year-old little girls. And at 10, you were six feet tall. So I'm picturing Delta at six feet tall. And at 12, you were 6-6.

And I guess my question is, were they ever worried you had acromegaly, like Andre the Gime? Were they ever worried that there was something going on? I never heard that word, but I went to the doctor and the doctor said I had Osgood Slaughter's. That's the painful thing with your legs, right? I was like, oh, my God, being a young kid, you don't want to hear you have. Also, I'd have been like, I'm German? Yeah, right.

So he said I have Osgood Slaughter. So I didn't ask questions. I was like, man, my knee's going to hurt like this forever. And then one day, I just kept playing. I just grew up and I haven't had any problems since. But my great grandfather, who I met before he passed away, was 7-4. seven four seven four he lived in dublin georgia we came back from germany and my mother tells me i was always not really ashamed about being tall because i was the only tall person in my school she's like

you come from great stock and when i seen this man Dublin georgia on his farm he had an ox he had a plow and when he took his shirt off he looked like a he man doll really muscles everywhere my mom's like that's like that's how you're going to look when you're older yeah yeah yeah and i didn't have glass that time, but if I did, I would have been like, sign me a little chocolate man, ball-headed such myself, and he took a shirt of. I'm talking about 14-pack. It was incredible. My mom's like, that's how you're going to look. And once I've seen him, I was like, okay, yeah. Did you get made fun of for being tall? No, I had to convert into bulliesom. Oh, you did. Bullism and sillism. When you get there, people talk about you. So I had to make them like me by

being silly. And the ones that didn't like my jokes, three o'clock. A bus-stron. A bus-stron. I ever asked your mom if you were retarded? Yes, and she punched him in the face. Yeah, so that kind of stuff was happening, right? Any girls like you in elementary school? No, no, right? Because you're a fucking man. Yeah, exactly.

You're like one of the teachers. I couldn't resist attention from women. My story is I was that big lug in elementary. All my buddies had cute girlfriends. And I just wanted that so bad. So then when the switch finally flipped in junior high where girls were starting to go like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm into this. I just couldn't resist.

I loved that approval from girls. I actually thought about starting a how to date book. Uh-huh. Because for people like us, there's two stories. It's the easy side. Meet them. La-la-la. And then there's a regular side.

I started on this side. Never had to go on dates. Never had to do anything. So it was more of that. So now when you're used to that and then your transition back is very tough. I was reading the five love languages. and I didn't realize that sitting with your wife watching TV is not spending quality time with her.

I never knew that. Well, hold on that. I never knew that. I never knew that. No, I know what you mean, though. That's just being next to somebody. Yes, I never knew these things. Like, I was never taught because, like you said, nobody wanted us.

Yes. And then when I hit that cover of Sports Illustrated. Everything changes. Yeah, I'm coming with you. For real. How are you going to not say yes to that? Exactly. If you want it so bad.

It's the same I wanted the cool BMX bike. I wanted the cool big wheel. You wanted a mongoose? I wanted a mongoose or a super goose or the hutch, any of the shit the other guys have. I have a confession. Tell me. Dionne Wallace, I stole your mongoose in Germany than one time. Oh, no.

Wow. I'm glad you got that off your chest. Statue limitations on the stolen bike are probably up. Yeah, I wanted all that stuff so bad. So then when I could get it, I just acted like an idiot because it was like stored up. Yeah. Wait, we got to stop on love languages. Yeah, I want to know yours.

Can I predict yours? Yes. I think it's words of affirmation. You're really good. That's the first one. Yeah. Saying, I need you to tell me that you love me. Thank you.

That's all. And which one's hard for you to meet in a partner? You know their love language is this. I can meet them all. Acts of service. I can do all that, of course. No, let me just say. Axis service isn't writing a check.

Axis of service is like mopping the floor. You can do that? Now I can do that. That's the hardest for me. Yeah, 10 years ago, I couldn't do that. We had a sex expert on, a sexologist recently. and you want to hear the worst part, the things that gets women hornyest wives,

it's not for play, it's called chore play. Chore play. Chore play. They want to see you, like, clean and do the laundry and, like, take shit off their plate. I get it. Sure play.

It's not seeing them do it. It's not like it's a turn on to watch. It's just like, oh, this was taken care of. Now I don't have to take care of it. That's hot. We had around, I'm like, oh, it's great. She's going to tell me, like, I got a rubber feet, and then I'll be in business.

She doesn't know, you got like, you do the dishes. One of your athletes, score play. Oh, yeah. Well, look, the NBA group is. That's going to work every time. Yes, score play. Yeah, you have a little bit of a leg up there. I think about how fragile life is when I was watching that doc.

Again, you got one of these situations where you're either a good time, Charlie, good times, your Sanford and son, all the things that made you love being goofy and comedic. And then you got a side that's like, don't fuck with me. It's on. and you beat a kid up and he had a seizure. And I think about, man, life's fragile like that. Very fragile. It was definitely protected by the man upstairs. Yeah, can you remember the moment of kind of panic of, oh, wow, this just got serious?

You know, a lot of times when you're, and I was a medium-level Jew of an underlingual, not high. Probably stole a car, still candy bars, fights, all that teenage stuff. It didn't hit me to after that. You could have went to jail. And being six-five, six-seven, you probably would have been one of those kids. cases, oh, we have to try. You're like an adult. You're black. Yes. You're huge. And I'm living in Fort Stewart, Heinsville, Georgia. Yeah, exactly. No, you're getting tried as an adult at 12. Exactly. So it changed me because now you have to tame the bully, damn they're turning off.

He's still there when necessary. It's like a superhero. I'm not going to walk around Superman all day. I'm going to be Clark Kim, but when there's a problem, I'll and then come back to normal. And then my mother sat me down, my father's very upset. Definitely got in trouble and had to do chores around the base. He's like, you didn't go to every house and take out the garbage and cut every grass. But my mom was like, baby, you're special, you're strong. You're going to hurt somebody. Don't ever do that again.

And when you're raised by a drill sergeant, you're programmed not to make the same mistake twice. I had a bad run of being a bully in elementary school. I was dyslexic, so I was dumb as fuck. Me too. But then compounding that was, I had a brother that was five years older than me that beat my ass every day. Right. And then I had crazy stepdad's in the mix. So I have to admit selfishly, when I got to school and I had some power.

Oh, didn't it feel good? Yeah. It felt good going to school and everybody fearing you. When you're leaving a house where you're kind of scared sometimes. Yes. Because you speak so positively about Phil, your dad. And for people who don't know, I'm sure everyone knows, but not your biological dad, but been raising you since you were to fucking great dad on all accounts.

But also ruled with a heavy hand, I wonder as positive as all that was. Do you think going to school and feeling like being him in the scenario was a bit of a relief? Now that I look at it, it definitely was a release. Like you said, when you don't have control in one place, you can have control in other places. It's irresistible. It feels great. Rule would have seriously heavy hand. But all, like I said, thank you.

Yeah, it seems like you were able to admire it. I do. A lot of people wouldn't be able to handle it, but I've never been one of those ones. I'm glad he did it because even as a medium juvenile delinquent, he's. to say stuff that's true today. You're looking at that ugly-ass car. You're going to have 50 cars. You want to buy your mom's house

and 2,000-square-house. If you listen to me, your house is going to be 100,000 square feet. You're going to be living in Beverly Hill. Like, he used to tell me stuff that I wouldn't even dream. And when it happened, I was like, you know what? It worked. The subject to that is I really believe in you.

And you need to believe in you as much as I believe in. Yes. But I do wonder for you to admit it might have been too hard at times would almost appear as weakness. And if that's in the way at all. I can say it now, we'll never say it then. Weakness has also made me who I am.

Because when you, oh, he's never going to win a championship. Pisses me off. It taught me how to take that criticism and turn it into motivation. I love being criticized because now I'm able to look at the criticism and see if there's some truth in it and work on it. I heard you make a great point on Pivot. You were awesome on that. That whole show is great.

It is. More specifically, you don't mind criticism from a peer. or someone above you? And I think that's really relevant. Yes, it is. You seem to have a really healthy attitude about anyone who doesn't know what the hell you've been through or done the thing you've done and they're chirping online. Why on earth would you pay that any attention? At all. I work a lot in law enforcement.

And when the term cyberbullying came up, I didn't understand it. It's simple. Like, if he's bullying you, you don't know him. Why don't you block them? Right. You don't have to engage. Yeah, I block people every day. It's a phenomenon. I enjoy going into the school. schools talking to children about that, but it took a nuclear physicist to teach me that. So I used to read everything.

Yeah, yeah, it's irresistible. So when I talked to these nuclear physicists, start laughing. He said, who is that guy? I don't know. He said, so why do you care? What did Jerry West say? Gary West loves me. All right then.

What did Karim say? Grim's a little hard. Okay, well, you listen to people like that. Yeah. And then he made me watch this movie. I don't know if you saw the fan, the Robert De Niro and Weston Snipes. Yes. So remember when Robert.

He's a deranged baseball fan. Yes. And he kidnapped him. He says, I don't want to hurt you. He says, how do you create all those home runs and all the RBIs? And Wesley said, I don't care. And once I saw that, changed my life, my career took off. Whoa.

Really? Yeah. So, of course, I listened to my family and people that are equal and people that are above. Okay, let's go back to Lucille, your mom. I love your mom. Yes, thank you. The fucking greatest. Thank you.

When I didn't believe in myself, I would just throw things out, and she would believe it. and then one day take me to an AAU game we ran to this neighborhood and she stops and she looks at this house not the houses that we live in but it was a nice house because she never had a proper house

that was just hers grew up brothers and sisters and we always brothers, sisters and cousins it was in Alamo Heights, Texas that's where all the rich people live in San Antonio and she was looking at it and I was like, you know what? I'm going to get you a house

But once I put something that's set in stone, you're going to have to kill me to break in. And I've seen this lady wake up every day, cook a hell of a breakfast, iron our clothes, iron her clothes, go to work, come home, cook a hell of a dinner. We're the same pans on Monday, Wednesday, and fries, they just changed up the shirts and had one outfit for company parties and all that, but never complained. So from 2 to 12 juvenile delinquent And then one day I'm watching TV And John Conkak signs for 15 for 3 $5 million a year So my father had some tickets

And we go watch this guy play And I'm like He's good but I'm better So I'm like if he's making 5 million a year I can make four I wasn't putting myself a bumble I can make four

But I said I'm about this lady house And that was my whole motivation That's been my whole motivation Forever Just to take your honor feel when you did it? It felt great because I had to trick them in the buying house because they were really good parents. They actually raised me through a lot of horror stories.

You know, we got all this money coming in and we know nothing about financial literacy. Buy your house first, get yourself situated, then buy me house. I was like, okay. It's safe to assume you're the first in the family tree that's dealing with this kind of well. Yes, I am. The only is putting the money in the bank. But wait, the bank only insurer is $200,000. So if you lose that, I'm kind of scared.

and invest, invest in what? So I had to, like, figure it out through trials and jubilations, but I saw this nice house, beautiful. Like, something I've never seen before, the pool, the marble floors. And they were on the mission to help me find my house first. I said, Mom, you like this house for me? She's like, I love it for you.

And I gave her the keys. I've never seen a person cry so fast. Yeah, of course. And she said, we can't afford this. I was like, I was already paid for. I wanted to make certain mistakes early. Like, when you got a whole bunch of money coming in, you could be silly up front. You really fucked up the first million, let's be honest.

Oh, easily. You blew it all in one day? One day. One day. You buy three Mercedes in one day? Oh, yeah, three Mercedes in one day. Oh, that's incredible. You bought himself one brought home and started like, that's fucking nice.

He goes, well, let's go get you one. That's great. No, but when I get really curious, she said, we can't afford this. It was paid for it. And the reason why I pay for it, if everything goes wrong, if I'm one of those dumb athletes, at least my mom's house to pay for it. Yes, exactly. Yeah, have you watched the 30 for 30 bro?

Yes, I have. That's so heartbreaking. It is. What they point out, which is so great, is like if you chart anyone else's earning potential in their life, it starts little, and as they get older and wiser and more experience, it keeps going up and up. But it's easy to do a lot of people to understand.

I was looking at NBA salaries today. I want to put people's business out there, but a guy's making 50 and living in California, out the tax, he's only netting 17. They always, oh, he's making $200 million, but we know as business people, you know, net $200 million. You got an agent, you got taxes. But they're spending as if they have $200. That's the point.

Yeah, well, he was overdrawn within a couple days of his first million dollars. He's like, oh, wait, there's only $600,000, but I spend a million. Yeah. For people who don't know your whole story, I do you think it's fascinating that in ninth grade you tried out, you got cut. 10th grade you try out and your legs hurt so bad. And then your dad gets stationed in Germany, and you're over in Germany, and the coach of LSU, Dale Brown, he's visiting. Your father goes, you should go introduce yourself to him.

And he sees you and you start asking questions, and he asks, how long are you enlisted for? He has no idea you're 13 years old or whatever. And this is a time where you have to start believing in yourself and other people believe in you. He put his arm around me like he found gold. Yeah. He's like you're 13. And he grabbed me and said, where's your father in? Well, he met my father and they had a conversation.

And that's the reason why I went to LSU because before I became the character known at Shaq. You were terrible at that point, right? Awful. What do you mean? As a basketball player. Couldn't play. He was terrible.

Couldn't dunk, couldn't jump. It ain't no way I'm supposed to be one of the world's greatest big men. But he believed in me. And he wrote me a letter. And all the excise he sent, I did it. And Scott cut to next year. I wrote him a letter back. And he says, you know what, a lot of African-American kids don't get the opportunity.

I'm still giving you a scholarship. You can come, you can be like team manager and maybe work your way up to an assistant coach. Whoa. So I have a scholarship, even if I didn't become checked to LSU. You must recognize it. You have this incredible life of highs and lows. It's like, dad's not there. Sard shows up.

Well, that's a jackpot. You got fucked, then there's a jackpot. You get cut. It kills to run. But you meet this sweet guy and he believes in you. That's kind of crazy. By senior year, so you got cut in ninth grade, you can barely run down the court in 10th grade, and then by senior year, you average 47 points in the playoffs. Yes.

The highs and lows of that and kind of the whiplash of how quickly your life can kind of change, I think could set a little bit of a pattern. I have a similar one. You get kind of maybe a little addicted to this. I am because it helps us continue the fight, and I was trying to teach my second son, Sharif, that. High school started off slow day championship. You go to college, not really playing, ever playing. Then you have the heart thing. Boom.

For people don't know at UCLA, your son has to have heart surgery. He's at that moment feeling NBA bound. Exactly. So go to the Lakers pre-thing, cut, G-League, cut. And then I had to pull the inside and be like, my man, we don't need another basketball player. We got one. Yeah. We got one.

You just being an outstanding kid, that's the biggest compliment I can get. Because one, you're never going to be like me. I'm crazy. Right. I'm from a different era. Exactly. I didn't beat the shit out of you. Let's start there.

Like, I don't know if you watched the Reebok show I did, but we had a hard door. Power moves. Yeah, I was like, I mean, things that I miss. You missed a lot of dad. You don't ever want to be like that. Once you have a family, you don't want to be like that. I had to be that because it was my destiny because I wanted to build something big. So I kind of had to be like this, but you don't have to be like that.

So you see a lot of kids that are very successful just by hard work and passion. And just like we did, it's like all of us that it doesn't matter if you have a degree or not you work hard, you believe in something, you follow it. Like my oldest son is one of the world's top DJs. Oh, really? Yeah, Miles O'Neill. I bought them a little controller and I told them. Do you guys do shows together?

Yes, we do. Midnight tonight, we're going to Germany. No? Yes. And you're doing a show together? Yeah. And you have room on your plane for me. I do.

Okay. Thank you for the invite. I'll come. And I remember one time I got mad, but then I smiled at the same time. So I landed in L.A., he picks me up. And the car smells like cannabis. So now I'm getting dad more. You sound like such a dad.

It smells like cannabis. Not weed. Yeah. You mother, I don't put hands on, but it gets very intense. And he starts laughing. He said,

Dad, have you seen my ladies with pork? I said, yeah, he got all lace. He said, okay, no disrespect,

dad, but I've always had AIDS. I've always did what you wanted to do. And cannabis is legal and I'm 21. And it made me shut the fuck up. Oh, God.

He kind of checkmated you. Checked me. You've never been into weed. No. Who come? Yeah, you smoke hookah. That's just tobacco? Yes, it's tobacco.

And does it give you a little buzz? No, it enables me to follow the routine of sit your eyes down. Oh, it calms you down? No. So, when I was young and dumb and I lost my family, by doing too much, being out and being in too many places. Yeah. So now, don't go to clubs. Don't go to gentlemen's clubs.

If you see me in the clubs, it's because I'm DJ. I gave myself a lifetime ban on that stuff. button, so I'm not a mute. I don't just work and go home. I allow myself to go to hookah bars. Because at a club, in bottles, you walk in and section and this and that, but at a hookah bar, you sit down. So now when I'm thinking about the next move, it's blowing out.

Do you regret that period of time that you're? Yes, of course I do. Because of the consequences. Yeah. But also, I don't know how you could resist that at that time. Yeah, but that's an excuse. When you're raised by intelligent people, you know, better. Especially once you walk down the aisle and give those vows, you got to have some control.

Well, this is my single favorite part of the doc. For people don't know, so your biological dad, Tony, he was not around. As soon as you broke, he went on Ricky Lake. There's a bummer. Were you embarrassed by that? I would have been really embarrassed. Yes, because I didn't want people in my business. Did it feel trashy? A little bit. It's not trashy, you know, in our business. Once the media gets a hold of something juicy. Now I've got to answer it. Oh, yeah, that was a big man for everyone. Yeah. So now it's, oh, you don't want to talk to your father and your little brother? I don't even know them people. But when I fell my family, I said I have to ease up. Yeah, you said in the doc, when I do the same stupid shit, he did, I'm in no position to judge.

I think the fact that you were able to, I don't know about mend is the right word, but reach out and have some connection with him. That's all Dr. Lucille on you. Oh, she advised you on that. Yes. She said, listen. What a good woman. She said he's a great man. Just had some mistakes. She get to know him. So when we first reconnect, I said, listen, not judging you. I know everything about it.

What happened? I understand. I love you, brother. But I'm 50. I don't need a dad. Right. Your son. Yeah.

But I respect Philip, really, because when the guy who tried to come back around, he's like, no, he's mine. Staying with me. We know who you are. We know you're bringing the world. But he's here. He's under my roof. He's under my rules. And when you want to call and talk,

help my permission, you come through me. So what's crazy that you didn't get seemingly biologically is dad was an addict. You had to be on pain pills to play. I did. You were playing through so many injuries again, back to this thing where I'm suspicious that for you to admit you have any weakness would be too painful. You're just keeping it all in. You're just playing through everything.

You have stuff that's going on. And yeah, you have to be on pain pills. how did that not grab you or did it grab you a little bit have you ever been scared about any of that addiction wise so i have a question yeah is addicting for the chemical effect or you're just taking it i was having my he discussed with my doctor he's like you were addicted but i didn't feel high right you just felt the absence of pain yes so i didn't know that was addiction but let's get deeper shacks so there's the absence of physical pain and then there's the absence of the mental anguish so even if you're not high, but you're suffering

mentally, and that thing provides relief. I don't think I was suffering mentally. If I had a knack, I would take it. I don't want to feel that neck because we need this game. Yeah. Yeah, it was more physical. Well, you said I could play good without them. Yes, but I need to play great. And then I always do homeboy math.

Always says take one. I'm taking three. Oh. Of course. Which is now my counts are low. I'm fixing everything now, but the liver and kidneys real low because of that. But like you hear stories, oh, he was addicted. He did the hell. I wasn't that, but I had to have them. So is that addiction?

For me, addiction is I'm preoccupied by it. I think about it. I need it. I'm talking to you, but I've got three in my pocket. I'm going to figure out how to take a couple without. I always thought you'd take it for this effect. Oh, right. For example, when I had surgery, you have to take the oxycodone.

I would take it just to feel the pain. But after I stopped feeling pain, I would stop taking it. But when I was playing, I always had to take Indusin and Arutis, anti-inflammatories. I had to take a club sandwich, fry. two pills, wake up. Club seal. Yes. That doesn't sound.

No, that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's like, no, but for 19 years. But in the summer, I wouldn't take it. When the summer started and you no longer were taking it, did you feel withdrawal effects? No. And you weren't increasing the amount. That's a big thing.

Well, I was. So it's take one, I would take two. But then would you take four and then eight and then 16, like that type of thing? Important games, yes. I'd take two the night before the game and then have to shoot around and take two more. Yeah. It's a four.

fine line when it's physical pain alleviation versus your job it's your job yeah I don't know again when I hear the word addiction I always thought yeah a junkie yeah yeah but guess what there's doctors and lawyers and airline pilots and people who are managing right you can be a managed addict or a functional addict I certainly was I was still coming to work and doing everything I had to do but I thought about all day and dosage is going up and at some point I'm like oh we're taking a lot And you're hiding it. Hiding it is a big, big factor. You never hide, right?

That's your gift. It's not that I was hiding. It was just. No one was asking. You were just doing it in secret. Well, the trainers knew. I mean, I'm not telling my wife and my kids or my boys, but I'm like, hey, man, got this knee pain. Here you go.

Take one. Yeah. And where you just do. This can be for a seven foot one three hundred pounds. That's not what the study was where they just termed the dosage. And that's probably right. You've got a built-in excuse. But that was my same.

I'm like, they don't know me. When I drank, I also drank a case of beer a day. Like, I got a constitution. That's not for me. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. Searchlight Pictures presents The Roses, only in theaters, August 29. From the director of Meet the Parents and the writer of Poor Things comes The Roses. Starring Academy Award winner Olivia Coleman, Academy Award nominee, Benedict

Cumberbatch, Andy Samburg, Kate McKinnon, and Allison Janney. A hilarious new comedy filled with drama, excitement, and a little bit of hatred, proving that marriage isn't always a bed of roses. See The Roses, only in theaters, August 29th. Hi, I'm Monica Lewinsky. Welcome to reclaiming. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours, something you possess. is lost or stolen. And ultimately, you triumph in finding it again.

Miley Cyrus, welcome to reclaiming. My 2013 is your 1998. I lost everything during that time in my personal life because of the choices I was making professionally. Chelsea Handler, welcome to reclaiming. I did have a teacher who instilled in me that I was going to do something special. And she was like, you're going to have an impact. Sophia Bush, welcome to reclaiming. You went all the way. You committed. And if it wasn't for you, you had the courage to tell the truth and get out. And I had to say that to women in my life and I had to learn how to say it in the mirror to myself. This last decade for me has really been what I consider my own

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You'll just have to watch this show. So don't be shy, join the conversation and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. Want to watch episodes early and ad-free? Join Wondery Plus right now. Okay, the other really amazing thing that's really obvious in the doc is you have this incredible,

at the same time you have this epic humility and an epic ego. And you're kind of like managing them both and you're using them both as needed. And I'm wondering when you didn't get it right. Here's an example. So you go into the lead, your first round pick, your number one pick, You go to the magic. You go to the finals, year three. You beat Jordan en route to the finals.

At what are you, 22 years old, 23 years old? Really quick. What's that moment like? It was a great moment, but it was also a teaching moment. Because when you beat God, you think the job is done. Yeah. Right. But then you have to realize in Greek mythology, there's other gods.

Yeah. So we beat Mike and we had 10 days off. And then put it in neutral? Exactly. Not put a neutral. We're partying, gentlemen. clubs. Right. You're celebrating. Yeah.

Rades. Like, it was just too much. So, yeah, I mean, dude, I couldn't have managed any of this. There's no judgment in this. If I was 22 or three years old and I beat God, how could I not think everything was possible in that my powers were unlimited? I think that would be very misleading at 23. You know, I realized early that I lived two different lives. There's a real life. And then there's our life, a superstar life. you can't live that life

harder than you live this life so I'm a regular guy hello sir, hello man you always have to have that a lot of people in our business like they live that it doesn't look good it's not enviable

they're not living a real life they don't have real relationships they don't know that until tragedy comes yeah I've always been a student I'm like not gonna do that and then they want to disappoint my mother like one time we went to a restaurant I was trashing not trashed them

but just I'm shacking with my mom Hurry up. My mom and grandma and said, baby, you don't treat people like that. Thank goodness for her. And then again, I'm programmed. When you make that one mistake, you delete it. Because if you do it again, you're going to get up. Yeah.

So she's like, baby. That was your warning. Yes. You're like, baby, you don't need to treat people like that. So that's why when I go to restaurants now, I want to be known as the biggest tipper. I want to let you know that, hey, I appreciate you. I was thinking, didn't we have an actor on who used to work at the Beverly Hills four seasons and said they waited on you all the time? Yes.

And you gave very big tips. Was it? This is going to drive me nuts. It was great. This person worked at the Beverly Hills four seasons. With Sebastian. The comedian, Sebastian. He worked there for years.

And I said, who was the best customer? And literally right away, he's like, Shaquille. Shaquille would come in and you would have some shockingly little meal. Like fruit or something? Come in there, have a fruit platter and then leave my honor bucks or something. I learned early that you appreciate the people to help us become who we are. Why would I shit on the server because I'm shocked? right i just really appreciate people me too okay so back to the way you've balanced this humility

and this ego one part i love is from the second you get in a position where you're going to be doing interviews you actually practice you get people to come film you you start practicing reading ads and being interviewed and realizing oh this is a part of my business i got to be humble enough to not just think i can go do this so there's like great humility in that but then you get to the Lakers, seemingly this is going to be a fast pass to the finals, you guys are going to be champions, going to be Showtime 3.0 or whatever, and just it's not coming. And I'm imagining, if you had to say you were at a lowest point, was that lowest point when you should have been winning and it wasn't happening? I was at the tipping point. I'm going crazy. A lot of

people don't realize that, but every time we lose, of course it's going to be my fault and I'm being a great freak like sure is to tear my house up. I have to be closure of the press conference, When I get home, whatever I see. It's getting a flash. Yeah. So one time, I think it was our last time we got sweat before Phil came in. I'm in the Laker locker room. It's piss and shit everywhere.

I'm fucking ripping off urinals, ripping off the doors. You're hulking out. I'm going crazy. And somebody grabs me, and it's pretty strong. I'm like, get the fuck off me. And I turn around as Mr. West. So now I have to turn it off. He pushes me.

And I fucking go back. Calm the fuck down. You're going to get it done. and he tells me that he went to the finals seven, eight or nine times and lost before he won. He never won. I think he won. I don't think he ever won.

I think that's the great heartbreak of Jerry West. I don't think he ever won. I don't know, Rob will look it up. I'm like, hold on. Seven finals. Can you imagine the agony? Not first round, second round. Finals.

And he was like, I fucking believe we're going to get it done. And then he tells him, we're going to make some fucking changes. His coach is out there. We're going to get a new coach. when he said I got a new coach I'm trying to help him out I saw Phil was having a problem

in Chicago I was like you need to call Phil so then Phil does something that I don't know if he think I was going pass his tests

because when you hear that this guy's a problem this guy's a problem you hear these guys are divas sometimes you don't want to deal with divas you got to make sure

you're coachable yes exactly so I get to Montana he tells you come see me in Montana test number one really yes test number one and you don't even

know where Montana is it I don't go to Montana he has this nice law Kevin House and I see the fucking and balls in the sunroof, and it's hitting those balls.

And I knock on the door, and he says, I need you do me a favor. And I said, what? He said, you and my son need to move that log from the front to the island. Swim across a lake, a big old log. Yeah. That's a big swing to tell you to go swim to an island pushing a log. But what he doesn't realize is my field used to do the same shit. I ain't got no guys.

Push my car, two miles. But still, you could have been like, I'm Shaq. I'm not doing that. I could have. But that's where Phil's the gift that keeps on giving. You're kind of hardwired at that point to respond to that kind of command, right? Again, it's when you respect someone. Yes.

But I know it was a test and his son was already in the water. So I was like, all right. I just didn't realize how fucking cold it was. Ew. This sounds miserable. So he comes in and then you have this incredible... Three in a row. I got to tell you a really quick, funny story.

You got me out of a DUI. I went to UCLA. A classmate and I were the biggest fuckups at UCLA. He's now a professor there, which is hysterical. Jason Delion and you guys won in 2000 and we were such Lakers fan and we went out hard and we were both riding on my motorcycle in Venice and we saw cops and we tried to turn down an alley and we ended up in a bush then the cops caught us and we were both like we're fucked we're going to jail and the cops were like what's happening here and Jason goes I'm sorry officer

I've been a lifetime Lakers fan we're just celebrating that they won and And the cop goes, I'm a lifetime Lakers fan too. Why don't you guys get a cab home? Oh, nice. And let us out. That's awesome. Anyways, yeah, you guys go on this huge run. And then there's another part of the doc that I'm curious about.

And someone who I think has the same kind of money things, which is like, I wanted it. I'm so afraid of losing it. It's so important. That's the metric I'm going to evaluate myself on. What did you pay me? What did my co-star make? Why did he make more? I should be here.

That racket, do you think you cared about money too much sometimes? Of course. It takes never having it to want it. And then once you get it, you know that there's a window you can get more. My dream was to make $8 million for 10 years. That was my dream in high school. I had it on the board. Remember that place?

It was a store I used to go. I think it was called Spencers. Oh, Spencer's gifts, yeah. Spencer had a poster with this nice house with three-car garage. Remember that? Justification for higher education. Yes, that. Boom.

I had that. Lamborghini, Kuntas, a Ferrari, and a Porsche. I had that on my wall. Yeah, yeah, I did too. And I was like, you know what? Eight million for 10 years. And I already had them. I might get a Jimmy Blazer.

You get me a little bins and get me an old school something. So then I'm in college one day, and I think Derek Coleman signs for 20, Larry Johnson signs for 30. So did I get an age? And he said, man, I'm going to ask him a 50 million. I was like, what? Like 50 million. So I was one of the first guys that you signed, but in the middle of you did.

you can renegotiate and get more money. So when I signed my 50, my guy was like, hey, man, if you do what I expect you to do, your next contract would be $100 million. Oh, my God. I was like, what? So that's why I'm going crazy. But now when my time's up, I want $150 because I learned in a marketing class, you always start high. Yeah, right.

I'm not going to say 100 because I already know you're going to walk me down to 80. I want $150. The Orlando was like, we're not paying you $150. And then one night during the Olympics, Jerry West, first time I met Jerry West. He showed me that contract. I saw so many zeros. 120. Look like a telephone number?

Yes. So I signed with the Lakers. But then my guy was like, hey man, if you do well this, you can get another 100. You bring three titles. Exactly. Yeah. So then I want more. And it's like, no, we like the young guy more.

We think we're going to trade you. So then I go to Miami and the guy was like, hey man, if you help us win, I give you a hundred. I made a lot. So the answer is yes. It seems like you learned a little bit. I mean, there was a point where, yes, the money was really, really important in the Lakers. And then when you're on the heat, Riley or whoever said, Look, if I can give you $1.25 and we get nobody or I can give you $100 and we can get a winning team, you made the decision then.

Because I knew I had to win one more. And why did you have to win one more, be honest? Because I wanted to win before you did. Yeah. I would be the same. You wanted to win before. Kobe. Yeah, because you guys had to share that glory.

Yes. And then you get split up. And yeah, if he runs away and does it immediately, then that diminishes. That's the eagle part. It's who's better. Yes, but it actually made both of us great because I know I used to drive. drive him crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know what he was. I know what he was capable of accomplishing. They should drive him crazy. It's impossible the fact that you're both on the same team. I mean, when you look at the history of the NBA, the fact that both of you, it'd be like Jordan and Wilt were on the same team or you name the people. Yeah, but my leadership style, I always focus on the task. If I was with you guys, my task would be make us go viral.

I bring over everything and we're going to have to pull our pants down, I think. Yeah, we're going to have to fight. I think the picture of me. standing next to you is going to be pretty, pretty impressive for people. Basketball is so interesting because when you were talking about Kobe and the teams, it's one of the only sports that it is such a team sport. You need each other. You rely on each other.

But then there's also superstars in the mix. There are best players. I just feel like that could get so complicated, relationally. And if you look at our relationship, it's the classic tale of the godfather. You got the godfather who came from Orlando And he's the godfather But you got a young copo And then finally

Are you Michael? Are you Sonny? I think you're sunny No, he's Michael Yeah, Kobe Yes, I'm a godfather Okay, great Because remember when I came to LA I was already established Yeah

I was the biggest single league So he's there and he wants it You guys are so fucking different too He's like speaking Italian Yes You couldn't be more opposite We win three We do a lot of deals

and then finally, I get assassinated. They thought I was dead, and I relocate to Miami. I got to get it back. Jump in a semi. Yeah, it's business. And, you know, for me, being relocated every four years, I just said to myself, I just did two terms in L.A. Now I was time to move on.

But I was always thinking about what had happened if we would have stayed together. We either would have one more or it would have ended very badly. And then I had to teach myself, stop where it's a useless title. The people in your life already think the way they think about you. Yeah, exactly. Seale's been thinking you were this from the jump, right or wrong. And Uncle Jerome said it best, he's like, look, you get paid the most on the team. You're going to be the one they blame.

That comes with the paycheck. It's the deal. But when you were stressed, did it ever cross your mind? Because I've had this thought when I've directed movies, which is, boy, these directors that are fucking assholes ain't great movies. Do I got to be a dick? Do I got to be Jordan and have my teammates hate me? Did you ever consider that you were too nice or that you had too much fun? Were you fearful you had to be an asshole to win?

Yes. And then I became an asshole. You did? Yeah. So you do have to be? Yeah. Because early I was focused on a relationship. You all right?

But now I'm focusing on the task. That's sad. I wish it was a day. No, it's not sad. Let me tell you why. Yeah. If I know you're going to give me your best rhetoric when you're upset, I'm going to make you upset. So I know Kobe's going to be a monster when he's mad.

Motherfucker, this ain't your team. This ain't your team, little motherfucker. Yeah. They can scream Kobe all you want. This is my fucking team. And they were driving crazy. People were like, oh, he was in the gym working out. That's because you ain't shit.

That fucking Michael Jordan jump you doing is not going to work. What do you do? Go fucking shoot a million times to show me at it at work. And I needed that because I already know what I'm going to do. So if I'm giving you 28, 30 and this guy is trying to match me and I do me, that's 60 fucking points. Now, Rick. It's still for the overall. That's what I'm saying?

Now Rick, when I kick it to you, give me one. Big shot, Bob, Bishaw. me and him going to do most of damage. People don't understand everything I did was planned and it's never personal. Like, oh, why don't you and Kobe don't get along? I don't want us to get along. I want us to fucking win.

And then Brian Shaw asked Phil one day, why you never jump on Kobe? You always jump on on Shaq. And his response was, I always want Kobe to be in attack mode. Okay, so you want him in attack mode. I'm going to make sure he attacks. You play fucking soft last night, motherfucker.

He missed too many shots. I was just driving crazy. I knew exactly what I was doing. And then whenever he said, something to his guy, say something my God. They're talking about us, marketing. The more marketability we have, the more money we can have. It's a story.

Exactly. You know, some of your story I had wrong. I thought you came out, you were huge. And then you're like, now I'm going to be a rapper. Now I'm going to be a movie star. And I was shocked to learn. You went on Arsenio after the first finals run at the end of the season. And you, for fun, as a bit, wrapped with Fush, Nickens.

Not after the finals. That was my rookie year. I did that. Okay. You win rookie of the. the year, seasons over, you go to Arsenio, you rap with Fushnikins for fun, and then the next morning, someone offers you $10 million record contract. I'll do any job for $10 million.

That's my point. I'm in four seasons. I see one of Chris Rock's boys, I want you to be in my movie. First movie I did was CB4. Before Blue Chip. Before Blue Chip. Before Blue Chip, I'm sitting there and Chris Rock, it's, bam, basketball fan. I know you're, I know what you are, too.

Is that, man, you want to be in my movie? It's like, sure. And then four scenes again, sitting in there and a guy says, hey, man, I want you to do this movie, Blue Chips. So, you know, I don't know the stuff. So I said, talk to my agent. Because, you know, that's the thing to say, well, okay, you know, get to my agent. And my agent's like, bro, this is a real movie. That was a great movie.

As a youngster, you dreamed about it, but I wasn't going to L.A. chasing that. But you got to take advantage of these opportunities. I'm not a movie star. I'm not a movie star. I'll do it. What I have to do? You just have to play a basketball player. I think I can get away.

I can probably do that. If there was a role, I might be able to pull off. Back to being mean, though, real quick. In the doc, I thought it was so interesting. You said you fouled Jordan and then you went to go help him. And he was like, don't help me. Don't help anyone. And I heard that.

And I was like, God, that sounds so cruel. It just sounds like such a hard way to live your life. But I guess it works. And he was only giving me that brotherly advice because we're in the same fraternity. A lot of times you see greatness in other people. All the legends. they respected me for the way that I played. But did you have to turn that off

once you left the court? Were you able to go back and forth like that? Yeah, easily. I don't like it either, but, you know, as he sits here and he's got four rings, I realize you go to a restaurant and be friends. No, I agree.

You got a whole life to be nice and be friends. Exactly. You got 48 minutes to do something at a high level. As long as you're able to do both. That's where it gets tricky, I think. I think some people can't turn it off. And then that's who they are. But you have to turn off because it'll burn you out.

Yeah. Because I got so many motivating factors. Gotta play well. Gotta make money. I don't make money. My mother's going to lose the house. Ah, got to win. Oh shit.

They compare me to Kareem and well. It was just so many. And integrity. There were times where you're like, I feel like I'm robbing these people. They gave me all this money. I know, right. Well, that's the last thing I want to say, even though, to talk about campus. But the thing I've admired about you the most.

And I've said it on this show. like 35 times. I watch all these sports stocks. I'm not super into sports, but I am very into sports stocks. I love them all. A lot of these folks haven't seemed to balance fun and success.

And I think, okay, Jordan got six, but it came at a pretty big price, in my opinion. That's not how I would want my teammates to talk about me. Kobe got five. That came at a big price. People didn't love Bird. When I look at you, that's it for me. If you can get four and have a good time, I'd rather get four and have a good time than get six and be miserable.

Right. And I just wonder, is that just your nature or is that something that you've actually been conscious of? I've always been a class clown, so I'd do it for real. You're just you. You're very authentic. I like to make people laugh. You have the best Instagram account. Thank you.

And all of Instagram. I say this all the time. He talks about it all the time. I do. I'll turn. I'm like, oh, this song's been out for two days in check. Already memorized the words. Now he's fucking doing a dance and singing to it.

I didn't know my mom knew what Instagram was. So when I first started, do whatever you wanted. I'm bragging. And I get the call, baby. I get the call. Like, baby, we know how much money you make. Don't throw her.

I love her. I knew where the social media thing was going. So that's when I said, okay, 60% to make you laugh. 30% to inspire you. And then 10%. The floss. Floss. Not floss.

Sell. Like, hey, I got the new rebux. Yeah, yeah. I think I've seen you on a boat. That's in that 10% category. Can we talk about privacy for just two seconds before we get into the? What is your relationship to privacy? Because you can't go anywhere.

Yes. In fact, we had the experience. You wouldn't know this, but we were in Austin at Formula One. And we were on the grid. That's right. I'm getting some attention. Kristen's getting some attention. And then all the attention stopped.

It was palpable. And I'm like, what happened? Everyone's looking a certain way. And I look and I'm like, oh, Shaquille's a quarter mile away. And we all see them. The whole fucking stadium sees. You're the most recognizable person on Earth. Yeah, you cannot hide.

And I was like, either he loves it or it's got to be brutal. I don't know. So I try to be righteous. Whatever I'm saying or doing, that's who I am in real life. We have no privacy. You in particular. I can't tell you one thing and then be doing something else. So it keeps you honest.

It's just about being honest. I can't tell on the podcast that I don't drink and then be at the club. So I try to be as righteous as possible. and it's the world we live in now. Did you have any phase where you're like, fuck, I can't escape this and I need a break and I want to go to Arby's and I don't want anyone to see me.

My problem is that sometimes when you see something, your brain can be manipulated. For example, if I reach over and put my hand on your leg, but not because I'm trying to caress your leg because I slip and I fall. Oh, yeah.

They can manipulate that picture like, I don't believe Shaq went to Jack's thing and he was trying to rub it like, you know what I'm saying? So, and then once it goes viral, people will take that clip to try to build up their sight. A lot of times, relationships can be manipulated. Because I mean, one time I was at a bar,

and a girl came and took a picture with my girlfriend was, you fucking take another people? I was like, what are you talking about? She shows me the picture. And I thought, and I said, what are you laughing? I said, it does look like we're together. Yeah, I'll give you that. Did you forget, I told you where I was coming to eat?

Like, yeah, so I'm stupid enough to tell you, I'm coming to eat here and then bring another girl. That's the only thing I don't like. I had a woman in a hot tub, say, hey, can we take a picture? And I said, well, certainly not in this hot tub. But we can get out, I can put tal on, but there's no way I'm in a hot tub with you. You have to be extra careful.

But we have no privacy, but I just try to live a true life. I look at the amount of businesses you have, and I get him exhausted looking. Like you have 155 guys at one point, and you own all these car washes and all the chicken restaurants, all this stuff. It seems exhausting. Yet you have things like campus. When you say I'm done kind of going into ventures because I'm trying to get more and I'm actually trying to go into ventures where I can spread happiness and joy. I think the rubber meets the road on this.

How did you stumble upon campus? So let me take you back. If it wasn't for basketball, I wouldn't have never thought of college. A lot of people know they can't afford a college. A lot of people know they're not getting scholarships. A lot of people know that if they do go to college somehow get this money, they're going to be in debt for a long time. So when I met the gentleman, Todd Day, who kind of created,

he said he purchased a two-year college in Sacramento and he put it together. You wanted to make it debt-free. You wanted to make it to where you can go to a two-year college of your choice and be taught by professors at elite universities. It's online. They help you get the grant money that already exists. There's $40 billion in federal grant money that's out there. $4 billion of it went unclaimed last year.

Yeah, but we don't know these things. Right. So help you get that grant money. Yep. Be online, real online, not you watch this recorded video of a professor. And then, yes, some of the professor, there's Stanford, professor, UCLA, Princeton professor, and they help you get funding. They're sending 80% of the students a free laptop because they don't have one.

Yes. They're paying for half of these students Wi-Fi because they know they need good Wi-Fi. Todd A, a special dude. Yes. I used to go to all these conferences because I wanted to feel smart. Yeah, yeah. You want to be smart. They were on smart people.

So this was when Jeff Bezos was years before he created Amazon. He said you invest in things that's going to change people's lives. Because at that point, I was invested in ghetto shit and crazy shit and was losing. Shirts with pinstripes. I was trying to get rich quick. So he said, you invest in things going to change people's life. So Ring was the first one. Did another one.

Then I came across this. I was like, this is definitely going to change people's lives. This helps you get to it quicker. As you know, college, my first three years, I'm a junior and I'm in a league. I'm like, I don't know what a subchapterist corporation is. I come out of don't know what FICA is. Yeah. Yeah, like, I don't know any of this.

Well, the best is your mom. you wanted to leave LSU or you're considering, as you should, to go to the NBA. And your mom's like, okay, baby, come balance this checkbook. Well, your dad said no. My dad said, no. He was like, absolutely not. Mom said balance the checkbook. And I took one accounting class that I fucking failed.

I remember debits and credit. So I'm like, she was like, you're not ready. So then my junior year, I took some business courses. And I was like, I'm going to retake this accounting class. I know the professor. I know him will pass it. So now when she said, because I already didn't move, okay, balance the She said, okay, baby, you're ready.

I know, I love that story. Also, Dale Brown, to his credit, again, this guy would have benefited greatly if you stuck around. And you were just getting hammered nightly. And he's like, this dude's going to get injured and not even be able to play if I keep him here. It's called Lloyd's in London. There was a million dollar policy, which is a lot. But he knows a million dollars ain't going to be a million dollars, but it's going to be $400,000. And how long is that going to last?

So he's like, man, you got a chance. And he called me all, he's like, man, Derek Coleman or Larry Johnson, which I want, made 20, 30 million, you can get 40. You can get 50. You got another guy believing in me. He's like, yeah, you should go. That's awesome. Like, for real? He's like, yeah, you should go. I was like, what about getting my degree? You'll come back. How are you able to teach you, you come back whenever you're ready, and you graduate? Because I was very close to graduate. But never really did it. And then after I shot all those movies and my mom said, hey, man, I need to get disagreed. So then I finally did it. Great. Campus also has success coaches available to everyone. Talk about why that's necessary. I'm in school now at LSU because I wanted to become a support psychologist.

Currently, you're... Yes, correct right now. You made good on your promise to your mom and you got your BA from LSU. Then you got a master's, and then you got a doctorate and education. Oh, my God. I didn't know any of this. You're sitting with a doctor girl. We're in a doctor's studio talking to a doctor's, double doctor.

Wow. Different type of doctor. Yeah, but still. Now you're pursuing sports psychology. I'm changing it up to mentorship. Now, I'm all about validity. For example, if I want to be an actor, I'm definitely coming to you and your lovely wife. Listen to be honest, you're going to my lovely wife.

If I'm around, you might ask you where you park when you get to the studio. Because y'all are valid in the space. So one time I went to sports psychologist and then fucker tells me to breathe. I'm like, you don't know what it's like to be in Sacramento down by one. And if you miss his shot, it's your fault. There's cowbells. Yes, so that always stuck with me. No disrespect to what they know on the academia side.

Yeah, but they've never done it. Thank you. Yeah, no experience. There you go. And then there's nobody out there like that. So, you know, that's the ego. I want to be the first because I know you know as a kid. I know.

Been there a lot of times, dealing with the best be. But so I wanted that title. And then when I'm changing it to mentorship, a lot of these young athletes, young men need mentors and all. I just took my first class was about to book The Odyssey. Good timing. I think Nolan's got a movie. Yeah.

Oh, that's all that. Yeah. So I'm learning a lot about mentorship, but I'm going to probably lean towards being a mentor rather than being a sports psychologists. But a lot of these kids that end up by campus, they don't have a parent that went to college. So many of them are going to be first generation to go to college.

Yeah, I can relate. What a great asset to have there for them, to have someone go like, okay, you're failing here, you've got to do this, helping them through the process. We definitely offer a mentorship program, and I will be assisting in that. Being who we are, we automatically get the respect. Like you said, Phil Jackson's resume because of our resume. We always just try to keep it simple. I love that. That's so admirable. You could just be on your boat all day. You don't have to do any of this. You don't need a doctor or drink. You don't need any of these things. And you're pushing yourself. Yeah, because when I look at today's athletes, I know what their problem is in one sentence.

And you know that I know. I'm not one of these fans. You know that, hey, stop trying to go to the middle, go baseline. Joker. Uh-huh. Jigs up. Your bullshit meters high for that. Yeah.

They know that I know. I actually learned that from a old coach Bill Berker with the Lakers. I didn't know he was. I don't pay attention to shit. He would always say, go baseline, go baseline. And then one day he said, that's the same thing I used to tell Will. So now I'm paying attention. You coach Will?

Yeah, I coach Will. And I coach Corrine. So now I know, this fucker knows what he's talking about. Yeah. Baseline, I average eight more points, and I still think of them to this day. So I want to be that for these young kids. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. The town of Agda in France is famous for sun, sand, sea, and sex.

But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn. The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption. His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant. Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting. I am the Archangel Michael. The whole town has been thrown into chaos. As the mayor is unable to carry out his duties, I would like to address you all. Legal proceedings have been initiated.

Join me, Anna Richard. and journalist Leo Sheik for The Mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption, and magic. Binge all episodes of The Mystic and The Mayor exclusively and ad free right now on Wondry Plus. Start your free trial in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or the Wondry app. I try to imagine your initial meetings with these companies and here's my guess. I feel like when you go in to be an ambassador for a company or invests in a company, you're like, okay, here's what I'm going to provide. I need to be able to give a lot of this away.

Is that part of the discussion? Like when you became the president of Reebok, every time I see you go out to talk about Reebok, everyone that's in the area is getting free shoes. Yes. You gave way, like, a hundred and something shoes on found the other night. I was thinking of the person I had to ship all those after you just shot your mouth off. One is marketing. And two is about when I meet with the companies, I know they know me as a best,

basketball player. So this is what I tell. I'm the center. You're the point guard, you're the for, and we're here to win championships. I'm not here to take your money. Because on the business side, a lot of times I ask them what you're out. Like, well, I wouldn't mind invest in a company that we get bought by Amazon. It's not really a goal, but it'll be nice if it happens. Yeah. So I always ask them they're out. So now that I know what you're out is, so now I know, hey, hopefully I can help you get to that. And we had that with Ring. That's my first out, and I got a nice hit. It was so beautiful.

So now I'm chasing that. Neither I'm chasing money, I'm like, how can I help make this company growing so somebody can correct to the next level? Yes, yes. So in classic shack fashion, you're giving away a bunch of scholarships?

Yes, giving one way a bunch of scholarships because we want people to fulfill their dreams. And we have the opportunity to do that. And a lot of people call it giving back. I'm just doing what my mother told me to do. When she sees this and here's that story, that's better than,

He made over 500 million. That's better than you just bought a new house, 10,000 square feet in Dallas. She don't care about none of that shit. Yeah, yeah. She's not impressed. At all. And I'm getting older. She's getting older at the charity's moment.

So I chase those moments more than I chase anything else. So how many scholarships are you giving out? A lot. I don't want to say nothing, but definitely a lot. And if it's not a lot, now that I said a lot, I'm making a lot. I think it is a lot. Anyone who wants to apply for a scholarship at campus goes to shacks scholars.companus. Yes.

Shacks scholars.companus.companse.u. Go there. Listeners do this. This is an awesome opportunity. So many kids right now are pretty disillusioned. Like, wait, I'm going to go pick up 150 grand in debt. Enter a job market that I don't even know will be there at the end of all that. Exactly. This is like a disruptor approach. It is. We want to help people. And I wish I could take all the credit.

but Tadda is a mastermind behind us and you got the Silicon Valley boys behind us and it's been doing very well. All right, my last question, because it seems like we have a very similar relationship with our moms and a similar respect for our moms. I sometimes worry about my life with her not on the planet,

keeping an eye on me. Not for safety, but because she's been my conscious. We are the same people. She's what's kept me. When I've been in a crack house, everything's fun. I'm smoking crack. This is a good time.

time and then god damn if my mom saw this a friend of mine mother just died and i didn't know what to say because i don't know how it feels but i think about that all the time i do a lot of speaking engagements and people will say what do you want to say reach out and i always tell the story i don't know if you heard it gets to see my sister in o'land on a thursday it's cancer but it's a third time having it she beat it the two times they don't tell me that stage four they don't want me to worry So I see her, but I'm in an athlete mode. Fucker, you beat it last two times. I called the best doctors, we get.

But they're not telling me anything. But I ask her. I said, hey, you want me to stay here? There's something that said, just stay with her today. But I had a business deal in L.A. I need to go get this money right quick. But so in my mind, I was like, you don't want me to stay, but I'm going to go do the deal. Leave there about two.

You know, three hours back, so get there at 11, stay all day, leave a six, which is a red-out flight. On a plane, she passes away. But the point is I never got to tell her But if I would have stayed there with all day Maybe the doctor would have been like Hey, you have stage four Then I would have you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you. Right.

You stopped everything. Yeah, and then same thing with Kobe. We had our little riff And then I'm downstairs practicing with my son And listen, Kobe was good to my kids They love him, his uncle Kobe. I always tell you, this is dad beef. He seemed to have immense integrity.

Yes. And then so I remember one time I was in San Antonio. It was like, you hate Dave Robbins and say, yeah, but not to the point. If I see him at a restaurant with his beautiful wife, I'm going to beat him up. This is a dad thing. So anyway, they love them. So I'm working with one of my sons and one of my older sons come crying. So now I'm trying to stop time.

My mother died? Your mother? One of your boys get like shot. Hey man, what's you crying for? Kobe passed away. And I said, what the fuck you just said to me? It feels impossible. Healthy, vibrant.

Because the night before, we just watched. LeBron break his record. All day I'm talking about Kobe. Kobe passed away. I said, bro, stop fucking blind. So now on the phone it's going crazy. I need confirmation.

I'm calling people. So now I have to break down, but it makes you like, fuck. I know. I saw him at the last game. We had a little thing, but I could have. So I always told people,

hey, reach out. X. Yeah, well, if I were you, I think I would have wanted to say to him maybe, hey, you made me better. I want to thank you for that. Yes. Or hi. Oh, fuck you. Yeah.

Anything. Anything. So I always urge people. Even though I say it, I still need to do it. One thing that made me sad in the doc was the penny stuff. Yeah, that made me sad too. Like, are you good with Penny? Yeah, we're all good. I was young and dumb. Like you said, remember the ego thing?

Yeah, yeah. Ego. Well, and it's almost not your fault. No, it was. I mean, yes. It was. I'm tactful enough to fix any situation. Sure, the repair probably you could have done better. But I'm saying the context you come from, I got to have this.

This is how I'm valued. I know this is how I'm valued. Why don't I have this? I understand it. And then again, it was a godfather thing. Oh, I'm the fucking man. You're trying to say he's a man, Mr. Commission? No, no, no.

Oh, you don't want me? Okay. The L.A. Mafia wants me. Rather than saying, okay, you control this part of the business, I control that part. Like, magic did this thing and it worked perfectly. This is a completely stupid question. It's my last one. I don't know why I've always thought this, but all those years I was obsessed with the Lakers.

I was like, I think if I would have been bros with anybody on that team, it would be Robert Ory. Yes. What do you think about Ory? I love Ory. You know, Kobe and I get a lot of credit, but definitely would not have won any without the others. So I always try to stare at the name.

Big Shot Bob saved both of our eyes a lot. Yeah. Rick Fox saved our ass a lot. B. Shaw, Gary. Those boys to catch on fire sometimes. And you're like, ooh, as a fan, you'd be like, oh, thank. Yes. Yes.

So I always try, but it was a great guy. And they really respected me. They knew me. They understood me. Like everybody always talking about, oh, if you would have been in better shape, my method is my method. You beat me up so much during the year. I'm not doing shit in the summer.

Because I already know mentally, when I come back, I'm fucking killing whoever's in my way. Take me some time to get there, but, you know, I don't need to come in the first 40 game. I got the quintessential ingredient. Exactly. And then I'm going to come in. Everybody's going to talk this shit. I'm just going to get me mad. And then I'm going to turn it on.

Like, I don't want to come in with the lights. I don't want to come in with the lights dim and see what's going on and then turn them on at the right moment. There's a lot of times when you come in and in the shape, you get worn out. I'd rather work up to it. So I just came in with how I came in. And then like I always say, I want a skinny shack, medium shack, and fat shack. I've lied to you because I've said last question three times. This is the last one.

Four. Four, probably five. Another favorite part of you for me is I remember one time you came to a game and you were fucked up. I think maybe you didn't even come out to the second quarter. And then you're getting interviewed after the game and they're like, Big fellow, what was going on? And then you rap, you freestyle,

stop it up, poil loco, eat a bunch of chicken and have diarrhea in the locker room. I'm like, this dude's my dude. And then the other day, you were mid-live broadcast on TNT, and you had to fucking want to walk in because you were about to shake your pants. We love to shit your pants. This is my dude. Thank you.

An unauthorized evacuation is about the. funniest thing of all time. It's so human. Even Superman's almost going to shit his pants sometimes. Well, that's it, man. You've just brought so much joy to my life and so many other people's lives. And I forgot about the Toronto thing, but I remember that. That was a fun cul-de-sac, man.

It was you, Tom Marr and Charlie Sheen was up the street. I mean, you talk about three crazy people. That's half the time. Well, great to see you. I hope everyone goes to shack scholars. campus.edu and starts that education journey. I mean, if this dude could find time to pick up a master's of bachelor's and a doctorate. No excuses.

Yeah, I can't imagine someone's got a better excuse. Can I use your restroom? Number one. All right. Be well, brother. Thank you. He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all that time. They got Monica's here.

She's got to let them have the facts. I saw you've done an architect. It was not an architectural digest spread. But thank you for bringing it up because I would like to shout it out. There's a very awesome shoe company called Margo. I like feel like I'm doing something wrong. Sure. Me too. Are you recording on your Zoom? I am. But also, wait, Rob, you said something supposed to be like click to the right thing. What's that mean? See, Sea levels. But it's like how high the ocean is. Okay. So there's a very cute shoe company called Margo. And hold on.

I'm exposing my, can you see my leaf blower I keep in my office? Yeah. Okay. Like over here, it looks like I have a nice office. And then I scooge this way and you go, no, it's a, it's a shed. Wow. Mix, messies. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Shoe company. Yeah. And, um, and they. pick some people to kind of photograph them in the shoes, but they want to do it in their environment. So we did it in my apartment and it was so cute. The photographer was incredible.

Her name is Sydney. Shout out to Sydney. And I thought it was also so nice because now I get like pictures in my apartment before I leave it. I was going to say, I would imagine, they turned out great to the degree I would imagine people think that's your new house. for a little apartment. It's quite nice. It is quite nice. I've spent a lot of time making this a very nice apartment.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been in here eight years plus. Have you really? Yeah, I moved in before we started the show. Oh, wow. Boy, time, it's just a boogies along. When did you return home from New York? Okay, I got home on Friday.

I have so many stories. I have one that I am so excited to tell you. Okay, great. And just to recap, the last time we recorded was at Dr. Mike's beautiful place. It was. We're resuming from there. Yes. We were together in New York.

And then you left. I stayed a week. And I even added a day. Right. Which turned out to be fortuitous. It was fortuitous because it rained that day and all of the flights were grounded. I was texting with my friend Ben and he was sitting on a tarmac for like three and a half hours trying to leave New York on the day you were supposed to leave yeah and I just the day before I just

knew I was like I I don't I'm not going home tomorrow I'm not going home I'm going to extend and my powers are so scary I bet they're starting to scary yeah yeah I mean not to remember when I accidentally killed Michelle Tractonberg like my powers are wild okay careful I know but I just I I just want to own it. Like, I have to be, I, I'm trying to use them for good, but like sometimes things go willy-nilly. Right. You're like, um, Terrence Posner.

And you haven't really perfected your powers yet. You're just coming to realize you have them, I suppose. I'm like year one, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Or, you know, you're like putting the stepbrother in the snake exhibit, you know, you're still there. Yeah, but he deserved it. And Michelle Trackerberg did not deserve it. No, no.

I want to be clear about that. I'm nervous to, yeah, even talk about her, to be honest. Look, obviously, it's a horrible, horrible tragedy. But, and I realize this is genetic. Like, my dad, well, we know my dad is powers. But also he, when I was home with him, and he was talking about quantum mechanics and quantum physics and how that's going to be his retirement plan,

he was like, but I don't want to learn too much. Like, he was worried that if he, like, knew too much, it would, like, make him go crazy, kind of. And that feels the same as this to me for some reason. I can understand how he would have that fear. Yeah. Like, if you really know how the sausage is made, maybe something is lost. Okay, but hit me with your New York story. It was all so, so fun.

I was confirmed it was confirmed that like when I'm there I'm just at a hundred like I'm going from place to place to place I'm walking everywhere I'm seeing everyone I'm eating everything thank God I had been off of Tris for a little bit so I was able to enjoy thank God yeah so anywho it's a rare rare comment to hear someone say thank God I wasn't on Tris that week I know, but it's true. Like, can you imagine if I hadn't been able to eat all the, although it's a little, it's a little confusing because I was expending so much energy

that maybe I would have been hungry anyway. I don't know. So Anna came to New York for a couple of days, which was so fun because she was coming back from Europe and she was like, why not stop in New York? So she came. That was great. Her and I went to, my favorite,

favorite restaurant in New York, pretty much top three favorite restaurants of all time. It's called East Sodi. Oh, it's the restaurant where the mystery happened last time with that guy, Kenneth. Yeah, okay, great. Kenneth, which we didn't bump into him again. No. Or maybe you did. Maybe that's the story.

Okay. It's not the story. That story has no conclusion. We, the mystery remains. Yeah, yeah. Okay, we're there. We have a very early reservation, like as it opens five o'clock. We get there, and I look over and I'm like, wait a minute, that's Martha Stewart.

Martha Stewart was at East Sodi. My girl, my dream side piece? Yes. She's, oh, my God. It's definitely the best celebrity sighting I've ever had in the wild. Like that, it was so crazy to see her. Also, eating at the restaurant I'm eating at. such an endorsement. Oh, yeah. How validating. Was she there with Snoop Dog? No. Oh, how it would have been so cool. No.

She was with a whole bunch of other people. She was in head to toe yellow Susie Condi. Susie Condi is a clothing brand that you definitely know because Kristen wears a lot of condi and I have a couple pieces. They're kind of like velour sets. Airplane gear, right? No, you can wear them out. You can wear them to Esotie. Okay, they've been pitched to me as an airplane. Like, you want to be comfortable on an airplane, but you want to look stylish. So that, I was told, is premium airplane wear. It's great for a plane. It's great for Esotie. It's great all the time. But she was in a yellow. It looked so good. It made me really want the yellow one. I almost tried to go during the trip to copy her, but then I didn't. Anyway, she looked at me. And how close were you seated? The whole restaurant is so small. So like, you know,

I'm not good at feet. Okay. Could you, like, I'm asking, was she two tables over, six tables over one table over? Wow. And who is she with? I didn't know. I wondered if it was like her family. There were a lot of people there, but no one I recognized except her.

Also, I should say there are two tables in between, but the one in between no one was sitting at. So I just had a very open view. Oh, great. She looked gorgeous. She looked so good. Uh-huh. Then I found out yesterday, adding to the six.

them of all of this. There was a picture of her in the cut. She's wearing the yellow condi. So I think it was that day that we saw her that she was photographed. And she has like a new skincare line or something. And whoa, her skin looked incredible. So if she was really wearing her skin care, wow, we should all get it. Because she looks really, really, really good.

Yeah, she's hot. She's sexy. There's more. There's more. You think that's the end of the story, but it's not. So that was so, so exciting. Then she leaves by Martha. I'm on a cloud, right?

There's two people sitting next to us at a table right next to us that I can say is like five inches away, basically one table. You're with them, yeah. Yes. And it was a couple. They were kind of upset once they saw our lasagna come, because then it reminded them that they wanted the lasagna, but they forgot to order it, okay? Oh, bummer.

And I saw photos of the lasagna and it looked insane. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Anyway, so they were very upset about that. They wanted to chat about it with us. So we did that. Uh-huh. And then they left.

And then a new couple comes and sits down. I'm talking to Anna. So I can see a woman, you know, sitting next to Anna. And I was like, oh, my God. that's a famous person too. I know her face, but I don't remember her. I don't know who she is. So I was looking at Anna.

I was like, I think that, I think she's somebody too. So Anna went to the bathroom to look to be clandestine. And then she texted me and she said, yes, it's Meredith Gray's stepmom from Gray's anatomy. And I was like, yes. Yes, it is. It 100% is. And also, ding, ding, I mean, the sim stacking here is so wild because Meredith Grace stepmom died of hiccups on the show. Oh, my gosh.

I know. Oh, my gosh. Okay. And if people. Did she, she didn't have any in the restaurant, though? Not yet. She hadn't eaten yet. Okay. So maybe people remember, maybe they don't, but hiccups are a huge part of all of our lives.

Jess has hiccups a lot. And I was watching ER and there was a storyline where someone came on. and had hiccups seemingly fine and then actually had AIDS, which was horrible. Oh, wow. They went to that well so often. Yeah, he had AIDS, and then I had to call Jess and say, hey, I just want to make sure you've been tested. Okay. So all this is happening.

Marith Gristepmom hiccups wild, right? Then we leave. We go meet Emma at a hotel bar, very cute, swan room, shout out. We didn't think we were going to get in because they weren't dressed appropriately, but they did let us in. And Emma, we were telling the story to her, and she was like, what's her name? So I looked up her name and I was like, oh, Mayor Whittingham. She was like, yeah, Mayor Whittingham. I know that name.

I look, she's married to Anthony Edwards. Dr. Green, ER. Come on. You're the one you're obsessed with. Yes. Who's the start of the pit? No, that's Noah Wiley. Oh, well, that's what I thought. No, Dr. Green, Dr. Green, huge main character of EBR.

I love him. I mean, this is huge. Cross-pollinating medical shows. Yes, but the story isn't even over. Okay. I tell Anna, I was like, oh, my God, he's married to Anthony. She's married to Anthony Edwards. And she was like, looked at a picture.

She was like, oh, yeah, that's who she was with. Come on. I was sitting next to him. I mean, can you believe this? This is wild. I, I, I am, I'm shook. No one on earth could possibly be more excited than me right now. I've been watching ER.

I've been obsessed. He was on Zodiac and I was so excited to see him pop up on Zodiac. like of all the people to be sitting next to him for it to be me is wild and then yesterday I was I've been rewatching girls the past couple days and he's he pops up on girls what is the world trying to tell me to get anthony Edwards poster I think can you believe it I can yeah you can decks that's wild I'm seeing me a level of excitement from you for sure. And I'm applauding it and I'm grateful for it. But just imagine I was like, I saw Mike Binklestein and Phil Brackman, a motorcycle racer and a car racer. He'd be like,

I can see you love those people, but I don't know who they are. No, that's not even close to the same. If you had been talking about Phil Brinkstein for like months and AIDS and you've been, and no one knows about, no one's talking about Phil Brinkinstein. can see and except you, and then all of a sudden you see him? No, I'm telling you like, oh, what did you do this weekend? I watch a MotoGP race. You know I'm watching Formula One in MotoGP every single weekend. And then I see like a MotoGP rider and a F1 driver having lunch.

You would be like, yes, I understand for you that must have been so thrilling. But you have no mental picture of them that you wouldn't want to see them eating. So I'm bridging that gap. Does that make sense? Yeah, I'm just saying. saying the coincidence of it all, not about the people necessarily, but the coincidence that I've been talking about AIDS and ER, no one is talking about that except me. You have to give me that. Oh, I'm giving all of it to you. This has got to be absolutely mind-going for you,

because you've been consuming it nonstop. Exactly. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, if you think this is a cool story you should definitely comment um i'm i'm i'm only i'm only saying i'm trying to say yes that's crazy and i myself have no excitement level over seeing them because i i'm not in that world sure that makes sense yeah anyway and that was a crazy day and i don't know a blessed day i'm supposed to know him, I guess, the world is telling me such. Yeah, bummer, you missed up. You know, it's funny because I definitely, you know, obviously I was very starstruck by Martha, but I would never say anything to her.

But with Anthony Edwards, I would have said, hey, I'm really sorry. As I was leaving, as I was leaving, I would say, hey, I'm really sorry to interrupt. I'm just a really huge fan. I've been rewatching ER and you're just so great. So, you know, have a good dinner. but I would have had to have said it. Would you have thought to buy their dinner? Wow, that's funny.

I do think about that a lot with people, but I don't, that didn't cross my mind. Oh, but you're right, I didn't know yet. It wouldn't have crossed my mind with them for some reason. I think because I know they're extremely wealthy. They have that ER money. Right, right, right. And Gray's money, my God, don't forget. I bought a cute couple's meal two nights ago because I was nervous.

that the five kids we had brought to the restaurant may have reduced their enjoyment of their night out. Yeah. But that was more of a, I guess, a payoff. Yeah. That did happen to Jess and I some months ago. We were at a quarter sheet's a very, very cute pizza place in Atwater. And just like stabbed this cherry tomato.

And it exploded on a guy next to him. Oh, oopsies. Yeah. And he was panicking. I missed the cherry tomato incident. All I, I like put my head up to see just like, you know, panicking and saying, I'm so sorry. Are you okay? And he was like, what was that?

You know, it was very uncomfortable. And then just did pay for his dinner again as a sort of a payoff. Oh, nice. Thanks. So since I saw you, my update. is we got home and very rash and last minute decision. I think we got home on Saturday, Huey, came over with the boys, and we went on the boat on Sunday and on that boat ride.

Kristen and the girls were still coming home from New York. I said, you know, they're going to be home. Then we have guests coming three days after that. If we're ever going to go to Dollywood, it has to be tomorrow. So the girls get home. I'm like, okay, everyone's state pack. We're going to go to Dollywood tomorrow. We drove out there, Huey Hayes, their two boys, Lincoln Delta, Kristen and I, and

it's about three and a half hours away in the Smoky Mountains. And Monica, I'm going to say something very dangerous. I think it might be my new favorite amusement park. That's, I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say to that. I had been told numerous times since we got here that it was super nice. And I don't know why this is very unfair. But Dolly's personal brand, obviously, is quite over the top, big hair, loud makeup.

You know, I love it. It's a whole vibe. I think I pictured the park maybe representing that. Does that make sense? Like pink everywhere. Yeah. This, Dollywood. is so charming and cute and elegant and clean.

It's like run like Disneyland. It's just spotless. The food's outrageous. We went to an all you can eat restaurant for lunch that had unlimited fried chicken, unlimited pot roast, unlimited saisege, unlimited something. It's a lot. It's quite a meal right before you ride all these rides. Oh, it's a heavy, heavy meal.

And let's add that. It was 93 or 4 degrees in a bazillion percent humanity. We were hitting the park as hard as you could. Then we did that all you can eat. And then we really slowed down dramatically. And then it also felt way, way hotter. And then we started saying, okay, kids, we got a hard out at this time, a little negotiation. But I got to say, I was blown away.

And they have a wooden roller coaster there. I'm not, I don't want to get into a debate with people. I'm sure there's a faster one. I was told it was maybe the fastest wooden roller coaster in the world. I think it went 73 or 78 miles an hour. But on a wooden roller coaster, that feels like 130 miles an hour. I think it's the most extreme roller coaster I've ever been on. I went on it back to back and it was absolutely wild.

What a ride. What a ride. Oh, that's so fun. So much fun. Oh, it was so fun. And again, this amusement park is in the Smoky Mountains. You're like walking and there's just like hills next. you with forest. And it's just as enchanted as you can imagine. Also, went to Gatlinburg in mid

July. It was mid-July. That's from boy named Sue. You remember that? Oh, Elvis. Gatlinburg in mid-July. I hit the bar because my thought was dry. Johnny Cash. Went to Gatlinburg, walked around that adorable town, went to a steakhouse with a salad bar. I've been, I've been just hitting a jackpot with salad bars. I bet I've been to six salad bars. And no listeria yet. No, not a touch. That's so much so that Aaron and I have decided in my older age, in my retirement, I'm going to write a book called The Great Salad Bars of America.

And he and I are going to drive around the country and try to figure out what are the top 10 best salad bars in the country. Do you think anyone would buy that book? If you make it look nice, if you make it a coffee table book, yes. I can help you make it look nice. Can you build your perfect salad bar salad? Build it right now. So iceberg, I love iceberg, just a mountain of iceberg. I like sliced mushrooms thin.

I like tomato. I like bacon. I like garbonzo beans. I like a sesame, no, not sesame. Sunflower seeds. Oh, wow. And then I like, you know, a blue cheese and then mix in another dress. seen just to give it a little more bite from that mild blue cheese to a vinegar or something.

And like at Sparries, my current favorite salad bar is Sparry's Steakhouse in Nashville. And I will do three or four trips to the salad bar before the meal comes. And every single time on the fourth trip, I say, I really should have just got the salad bar. I don't want my entree. But then I go back and I do the exact same thing the next time. And we'll probably repeat that again. I wish I had the confidence because I just really want that salad bar. I can eat, you know, probably like two cubic feet of iceberg lettuce.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Picture that. Your ideal salad bar salad is so different from mine. I haven't been to a salad bar in a while, but my old salad bar routine, when I was living in the south, it's going to seem very southern. Um, lettuce, I guess ice cream. Sorry, I left a hard boiled egg. I just want to throw that in there in case you forgot about that topping as well.

Thank you for reminding me. Um, I would go lettuce, but not ice, like the mixed green lettuce. Yeah, mixed greens. Mixed greens. Um, tomato, shredded cheese, ham. Oh, me too. Oh, you're adding shredded cheese. Okay, yep, yep.

I forgot that, yeah. But are you, which cheese do you put? Cheddar? The, the blend, ideally a Colby Jack, right, combo. Yeah, it's like shredded, it's yellow, it's white, goes on there. Like Mexican mix, they call it in the, when you get it at the grocery store. Right, but it's thicker than that. The cheese, the cheese pieces are thicker than what you'd get at the grocery store Mexican cheese.

Then. True, true. ham you know how they have that like ham in tiny strips matching the size of the cheese cubed ham yeah but it's strips you like strips of ham yeah it's strips so that goes on there cold ham shreds um i already said tomato i think what about for crunch are you going croutons proutons and then ranch that's nice i'll dance with ranch uh when the when the time calls yeah if It's a buttermilk base. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Sprouts. Sprouts. Okay. Yeah, that's great. That's a great salad. Thank you. So, yeah, Dali, what, I just really cannot, I cannot celebrate it more. And then since coming home, Huey sent me an article that it was recently named the best

theme park in America. I think the first time Disneyland's been topped. Oh, wow. Also, just drove back that night. And then I started, then I launched a little theory. So it's virtually. the exact same distance as it would be to Cedar Point from Detroit. And I was thinking, I wonder if there's some calculus and they know it scientifically.

Like, three and a half hours is like the limit maybe that people drive to an amusement park. Like, do you think after four, it's like, fuck that or five? I just think it's suspicious that some of these theme parks are built perfectly within like three and a half hours of a bunch of different cities. That is interesting. But you mean like for a day trip? Like, it's the max you'd go for a day trip. Yes. Like, how far was it from Atlanta?

Probably about three and a half hours. Yeah, well, Nashville is four hours. So, so, I don't know. But we drove three and a half east. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. Atlanta to Dollywood. Not four hours.

Okay. Four hours and 12 minutes. Okay, so that might be outside of people from Atlanta go to Dollywood? Uh, no. I mean, like, normally you've. been, but that's just because, like, you've been in Tennessee. But no, you wouldn't go, like, for the day to Dollywood. Right.

Okay. Okay. What a place, though. What a place. You get to tour, her tour bus, her prevo's tour bus is there. You can get on board. Yeah. That's fine.

And I was with these two little boys and four and six. And the four-year-old said, this is where Dolly Parton poops. Oh. Looking at the toilet. Yeah, it's immediately where it's my friend is that. Yeah. That's where Dolly had done some number twos. Yeah, the human brain is nasty and the human butt.

It's a nasty brain, the human brain? Yeah, I have to piggyback on your Gatlinburg story. Okay. I've also been to Gatlinburg. My, after freshman year, no, no, no, freshman year college spring break. um we went to a house in the mountains um and you know stayed there for spring break and it was it was the first time i ever puked from drinking was on that trip watch it that long yeah and um it it was it was so fun we had the best time but that so the day after i puked from

drinking bad bad hangover day was the day we were going to gas So we went into the town and like, you know, with all the ride, like little rides and fair stuff. And it's like the most touristy town I've ever been to in my life maybe. It's like a if a gift shop was a town. Yeah. It's kind of like Helen in some ways. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it had, you know, little rides and they had an alpine sled. Yes. I saw it. Which you like just get on this little thing and then go down. the slide, whatever. So all my friends did it.

And then I did it. And I was so small that it wouldn't go. Like it was- You didn't have enough momentum and inertia and mass to- It was going so slow. There's this like, in that friend group, this notorious picture of me going down the alpine sled. And there's a child behind me right up against me.

Like she went down. and was then stuck behind me because I was crawling at a snail's pace. Oh, wow. Were you embarrassed? Yes, of course. Yeah, and hungover. Yes. Sweaty.

It was probably hot. Yes. There's a lot going on. And how has it been back being back? How long were you gone in total? Three weeks? Almost three weeks. And it was unexpected.

Uh-huh. And the East Coast summer, who knew, it was going to become a big old East Coast summer. And it was great. I am really happy to be back. The weather's so nice here. And... What is it? It's in the 80s, but it's like, it's so nice.

Yeah, and it gets cool that night. Yeah, really, the weather really can't be beat. So I've just been gallivanting around here, went to Houston's yesterday, delicious, played Mahjong yesterday. I won one out of four games. And, yeah, it's been nice. It's been nice to relax. Oh, I've been watching a lot of TV.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm rewatching girls because I watched too much Lena's new show on Netflix. Uh-huh. And I loved it. I loved it so too much. This is, it's kind of a U-S situation, you a show on Netflix. Yes, yes. And it was, it was so good. I cried so much

it gave me so many feelings Meg Salter who's the lead is incredible she's so funny she's so great but also Will Sharp who people might know from season two White Lotus

he plays Aubrey Plaza's husband in that show he's in this and he's like a revelation he's so good and so natural and so endearing, oh my God, I just...

Is he on the leaderboard for crushes? He's a, he's a huge, yeah, he's on the board. Also, like, Lena is so good at writing male characters that are, like, definitely flawed, but you really like them and you see their heart, and it's she's she's so talented she's just so talented um yeah yeah so anyway so then i've been rewatching girls and that's been really fun because i realized when i first when it first came out and i was watching it i always had a little bit of anxiety watching like i didn't love it and now that

i'm rewatching it i realize it's because it was like too close like they're kind of you were in your early yeah yeah and i was flailing at that time so it was a little like too real and now I just think it's hilarious. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to watch the new Lena show. Yeah, I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it. Want to do some facts? Yeah, let's do it. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. Facts for Shaq. I was trying to make it rhyme. Is this for Shaq? Yeah. It's for Shaq. It's a very quick turnaround for this. Oh, okay.

So Rob took some notes. Shacks, some facts. He's big. It is a fact. Is that the first time you, well, you saw him on the, you didn't see him on the grid? I wasn't with you there. Yeah, you were, but you weren't on the grid. I didn't go that day that you guys saw him.

Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. But I've never seen him in person. And it's overwhelming, right? It is like you, in your head, you're like, yeah, he's so tall. He's seven feet tall, seven feet tall, whatever. it is it's overwhelming that is the weird thing about height yeah because like the difference between

jess and i is a mere two inches three inches but it's it's asymmetric once you go above six two it just starts getting exponentially more jaw dropping i do think i think it's after six feet it's start like each inch actually starts making a huge difference let's put it this way the gap between you and i is bigger than the gap between Shaq and I. Yeah, that makes no sense. And doesn't it seem, like there's nine inches or no, a foot. So there's 11 inches difference between he and I and there's 13 inches difference between you and I.

Yeah, that makes no sense. I know there's something about when you look up, something gets disproportionate. I don't know. Because you looked so short. Like a joke. Yeah, you look like a little baby man, a little girly baby man.

I almost didn't want to interview him because I don't want to look. No, you want to be small. You want to be held like a little baby you said. He said when he walked in, because I was wearing a sleeve with shirt, he said, you've been hitting the gym. And I said, well, I knew you were going to masculate me. So I had to come as swole as I could get. Yeah.

Now, the thing that got me, because I've, A, seen them a few times, chatted with him a few times, and then been picked up by him. Yeah. What I had missed on those previous encounters was the size of his hands. Yeah. Oh, my Lord. I didn't notice them, which is weird for me because I love hands. You're a hands person. Yeah, I like hands gale.

I'm a hands. Hansy. Hansy. You're not very handsy, but you're a hands girl. Yeah, like mixed messages. But I do think the most jaw-dropping thing is his hand size. Yeah. It's really cool.

It is. And he was fantastic. He just has a very sweet soul. He does. He has a good, he just has a nice energy. Fought a ton in the NBA. Yeah. Yeah, he's been all kinds of scrapes.

He has that thing. he's sweet, but he's scarier than I thought. Like, for some reason in my idea of him is that, oh, he's just so playful. He's just so funny and fun and playful. Well, you weren't watching a ton of his basketball games. You've been seeing his commercials. Right, right. And then I watched some of the doc.

And when I watched the doc, I was like, oh, like, oh, he's more intense than I thought. And then when he was here at the beginning, I was like, I'm intimidated. Well, he could kill you quite easily. I know. It's so, if he just like. Luckily, I've studied his fights and I know how to fight him. Okay. I got to wrestle him because Barclay was much smaller than him,

but Barclay immediately went for the knees and was able to get on top of him. I mean, that would be our, that would be our Hail Mary Pass. If he was trying to kill me. Is that I could somehow destabilize him and get him on his back like a beetle. Sure. And then you'd run. But you might be stuck.

You might be stuck on. The second you were out of the picture, I'd be, I'm so sorry. I was just trying to protect her. I love you. I would have never fought you. He would never hurt me. No, he won't. Yeah.

Just icon. It's just one of those times where we get to be in the presence of a true legend. There are more famous people, but I would argue there's nobody on the planet who would get recognized more. And even if you like pulled, how many people know? Taylor Swift. Right. And the number was bigger. He would get recognized 40x of what she'd get recognized.

Exactly. Yeah. And I actually do think, I mean, I'm sure everyone knows Taylor. I'm sure. But Shaq crosses all the lines. Like, you can ask anyone. Like, I could tell my grandma. Yep.

And she would know, I think. I would say, actually, he's probably top five most famous people we've had on this show. Well, for sure. Which is incredible. Again, Brad Pitt's more famous globally, I'm sure. But if Brett, if we followed them around throughout the course of their life. Yeah. Shack would be dealing with more attention.

Yeah. I think they might be. Andy has the thing that like comedians have. There's all these tears of how approachable people are. Sitcom actors, you've been in their living room. They're funny. They seem ultimately approachable. Yeah.

Leonardo DiCaprio, you see him, you are probably nervous to go up to him. Movie stars, you're scared to go up to. Yeah, but an athlete, and he's in every commercial and in your living, all that, yeah. Yeah. Podcasters are the most approachable. And as they should be. Yeah. Yeah.

Because they're in your life in a really, really intimate way. They're in your head. I do want to express gratitude that we made the time 100. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yes, time 100. Best podcast of all time. Of all time.

And I did the most embarrassing thing, which was my sweet agent Lance sent me a thing that said, congratulations and a link. And then I went to it, top 100. I see two dope queens. Then I see another show or two. Then ours. And I was like, oh my God, we're like third or fourth, whatever it was. I was like, couldn't believe it.

I was like, this is wrong. Revisionous history should be number one. Yeah. And then I realized it was alphabetical. Yeah. Which I actually liked. What a relief. I'm so glad they did it that way because, yes, also our publicist sent us the article.

And I went to, I clicked it to read what they said. They said a very nice thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I don't want to see the number. Right. Because it could immediately turn something. wonderful, into depressing.

If you were a hundredth on the list, you'd be embarrassed. I know, which is crazy. Exactly. You'd still be embarrassed. The mind is not a friendly place. The mind really is not. No. And I, so then, but I just like was kind of like glancing quickly and I was like, oh, I don't

see a number. So maybe they didn't do it like that. And I was glad. But I'm really great. It's such a nice honor. It is. Yeah. Okay.

So a couple facts. A couple shacks. A couple shacks. Okay, so it was Sebastian Manascolco who's working at the Four Seasons and that he was a great tipper. And yet he would order a fruit plate and a coffee. Unexpected. And leave a $100 tip. How many titles for Jerry West?

Oh, and I need to thank Rob for this because Rob took these facts today because he's in a foreign space. He's operating gear. That's not ours. Yes. And he was fact checking. He had to fact check because we just did the episode. Rob's on a run. Okay, Jerry West, whose silhouette is used in the NBA logo,

won the 1972 NBA Championship with the Lakers as a player and eight additional titles as an executive with the Lakers and Golden State Warriors. So I was wrong. I'm glad. I'm glad I was wrong. And he was right. He was dead right. Couldn't be happier to be wrong about that.

Okay. The poster for justification for higher education is really funny. It's a huge mansion. It's like seaside. It looks like maybe Malibu or something. It's seaside. Yes. It does look like it's California. There's like a fancy car in the driveway.

Let's see if I got the cars right. Turn it around so I can see. Because I said it was a lamp. I'm not going to look. I said it was a Lamborghini, a Ferrari and a Porsche 9-11. Kuntosh. And I think the Ferrari was a 308. Okay.

You're going to have to tell me if that's right. I have no idea. Okay. This has been updated. This is not the one we grew up with all because the Z8 didn't even come out. to 2006 or something. Oh. Can I see if I can find it?

I just want to, now I'm dying to know if I'm right. Here it is. Okay. Well, I'm completely wrong. Oh, I got a 308. There's a three, there's a Ferrari through a, but then the Porsche is a 928. That's the risky business Porsche. Okay, but still a Porsche.

Yeah, a Corvette. Congrats Corvette. I didn't know you made it in there. A convertible M3 and then big bends. So I didn't do so well. Less than half. Okay. Yeah.

That's, they should have put a Lamborghini. Okay. How are you knowing it based? There's no, oh, the Mercedes, I guess, has a logo. Barely. The way this is, um, painted out. Like, you can't really see. Well, they've probably, well, they were definitely in breach of trademark. So yes, they've, they've, they've wiped out all the lettering on the back of these cars. Yeah. And you can still tell what they are. Yeah. And that bends is, uh, an SL 500, I think. Is the Ben's the third one? Yes. Okay. And then to the right of that is an 86 convertible Corvette. Okay. And then I believe an M3 BMW convertible. And you can kind of maybe see the logo on the M3.

They're a little circle by the... I don't even know what an M3 is. That's a BMW. Oh. What do I know about? The gymnastics. Yes. Oh, thank you, Rob.

Good job, wow. That was nice, Rob. That's weird that you just brought that up. We were just talking about that in Nashville. I was telling Eric. I was telling Eric, and I was able to say the names of the Magnificent 7, 1996. Okay. I got to just show off.

It's not as good. I can't be as fast, okay. Dominique Mochianu, Dominique Dawes, Shannon Miller, Amy Chow, Amanda Chow, Amanda Borden, J.C. Phelps. Chi-C. Rodriguez. No, don't do that. Did I already say Dominique Dawes? Yeah, you said two Dominique.

Yeah, there were two Dominique, Shannon. Oh, Carrie struck. How could I forget? The number one. I did it. Great job. Thank you. Coached by Bella Lagozy. What's his name?

No, Bella Corolli. And Marta Corolli is the wife. See, I know. Okay. I know. Yeah, you're an expert. She, he, they ended up pretty much getting canceled. They did. Yeah. Because?

sexual impropriety or just too hard on them but also they they were close with what's his name Nasser yeah they like he kind of worked for them ish like you know very okay um although hold on I don't want to do that big of an niche because what I what I don't like is when someone is found guilty of some impropriety and then all of a sudden everyone around them was supposed to know and they're in trouble and they hate those people and all that. Like the whole guilty by association thing, I don't love. I agree. I don't love that.

I do think, I mean, not all these docs and stuff. Like, they were just really, for one, they were just really, really, really hard on the girls in a way that was seemingly very inappropriate. Ding, ding, ding. Shack. Shack. Because they were successful, right? They were successful. But they came, you know, they came from Romania.

yeah they um they coached Nadia and comynich yeah exactly good job thank you do want to marry Lou retin I love Mary Lou she was in a ding ding ding 1984 Corvette Red in the McDonald's ad and on the back the license plate said Mary Lou the way all this is tying together maybe I died in that airplane oh my gosh um Mary Lou I think also may be coached by them and so they had have this reputation and there but I think it was it was too much although a great counter to this is and this is on topic all these players get all this credit for these championships Jordan so and so the real champion of all time is Phil Jackson I know he has minimally nine between those two teams I don't know if he has more.

Yep. And he was not a blowhard yeller. He was a Buddhist. He was given, he gave Shaq Anichi book to read. Yeah, I know. I loved that. I love that. 13.

13. She has a player 11. Oh my God. When I was watching the shack dock and we got to the point of Phil Jackson, which I don't know much about.

I mean, I know of him. But I was like, from the world. Well, and, uh, last dance. Last dance. Yeah. Um, but I was like, okay, this runs the risk of sounding like so egotistical. And I don't, I, I, I don't mean not like this.

But I was like, I think, I think I in this life am not a shack or a Jordan or a Kobe. be, I feel like I'm more of a Phil Jackson. Like I, I, I'm a part of big things and I think I'm an important, a very important part of big things. In Turkle? Yes, but I'm not at the center. And I'm kind of guiding it sort of in the back. I don't identify with any of them.

Okay. Like, I've just not been a big winner. Sure. I just don't. What do you mean? You're a winner now. Now in this space. Yeah.

And so if I had to pick, it would probably be Shaquille because he tried hard, but he didn't try as hard as Kobe or like Phil said in the doc. Shack was great, but he should have won 10. I don't have that opinion. But, but and, and I'm more like Shaq. Like four is awesome. It's more than I intended. Yep. Totally.

And I don't want to be miserable for any goal. I don't have that constitution. I'm not that hard of a worker. Yeah. Or I'm not that. Yeah. I just don't have the desire to suffer for something as much. I can see that about you.

If I'm not him, I don't know enough about basketball players, but I, who's a basketball player? Oh, I guess Shaq was not supposed to be good and then he was good. I kind of connect with that type of thing. but I am there to win and not have fun and suffer and suffer. And I'll do. I, yeah. Victory is the most important. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I don't have that. Yeah. I have like the in the moment competitive nature where it's like if I'm on a motorcycle track or I'm in a corner and a car, I'll go for it. Yeah. I don't want to be bested in that moment. But if I was in the. What's that?

You're competitive. I'm very competitive. Yeah. But I'm going out. in Denver if we're playing there the night before. Right. I'm going to have fun. I'm going to stay out late. Yeah. I'm going to wake up late.

I'm going to go to the game and do the best I can. I know my natural buildings pull me through. But I'm not. I don't, uh-uh. I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true because you hear in this space in podcasting, if we have a big interview or something the next day, you're not like I'm going out all night long. But I'm also 50.

Yeah. Right. So, yeah, yesterday I was in New York all day long. I didn't do one thing other than Research Shack all day long. Yeah, exactly. That part's true, but again, I'm 50. Yeah, you mean when you were younger. When I was, yeah, and these dudes are all 20-year-olds.

You know, it's ironic. I feel like I'm, it's swapping. You're learning to have more fun and be looser? I'm learning to be able. I'm learning that I can do both. Right. You don't have to be this so long mission. Yes, exactly.

Yeah. Well, it's like learning. Well, I think that's accrued through experience. You do start to rely on yourself a little bit more. You have more confidence in yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's what's funny is both things are happening. Like, I'm sure the interview would have been just as good if I just showed up. Like, I probably know enough about Shaq to have gotten through it. And then in some way it might have been a different version of it. Yeah. But I, yeah, I just wanted to have all the entire story. I also do.

I think part of what this show benefits from is your research. Like you, not everyone. I mean, so I think a lot of people do research, but you're so smart that I feel like you're giving something. Your research is benefiting you and you're processing it in a way that a lot of other people can't do. And so you just showing up would be great, but it wouldn't be its highest potential without you applying your brain to the research. Yeah, what happens in the research is a red herring. Yeah. The research is during the research, I go, oh, wow, he has the same relationship with his mom as I do.

Right, right. It's not really about when he got to the NBA or what round he got drafted, but just like threw up and then it's like, oh, wow, here's something completely different between he and I, he really responds to a very authoritative presence in his life. And I don't at all. I'm bad at that. So those things, the research is like, I don't know how to get to the real thing I care about without it. Yeah, but I think you are able to do a weaving. I mean, that's like I don't do research.

So I'm sitting there doing, I think what maybe a lot of other people do, which is. Real-time curiosities. Real-time curiosity, which I'm glad we have that. Yes. But I think we need, I think the show is good because there's some structure. Well, thank you. You're welcome. Okay, titles after Kobe and Shaq.

Okay, so Shaq won NBA championship without Kobe 2006. Kobe, two championships without Shaq 2009, 2010. And then together they had three. Yeah. That's nice. They could have gotten seven or eight. They were so fucking good. That's so sad.

What's interesting is the research took me down all these Kobe rabbit holes. I just couldn't kind of resist. It was like I would learn that Shaq got four and they're like, how many did Kobe get? I know Jordan gets like, did Jordan get sick? I'm just starting looking up all these other things. And then I found myself in this rabbit hole of Kobe. He fucking scored 81 points in the game. Like the only part, Will Chamberlain score.

He scored 100, but he was literally a foot taller than everyone back then. He was so much stronger. Yeah. He scored 81 and multiple games over 60 plus. And I mean. Unbelievable. Okay. Rest, oh, the businesses that Shaq owns.

Okay, big chicken, Papa John's. He owns, he owns locations. And he was a brand ambassador of Poppa John's. Crispy Cream, five guys. In Atlanta. 24 hour fitness. Oh, he owns some of those. 40 of them, I think.

40 in the Atlanta area. Authentic Brands Group, J.C. Penny, Forever 21, Reebok, and 150 car washes. Wow. He has a ridiculous story. I don't know where I heard it. I've watched every doc and every podcast he's been in the last five years. But he owned all these car washes. And his business manager called him and said, we're missing $250,000.

like we're light on the P&L statement. Like someone is embezzled and he's like, oh, no, I have all the quarters in my vault. He would go collect all the quarters in like pillowcases and stuff and just bring them to his house and put them in his safe. Oh my. And he had $250,000 in quarters that were just sitting there. In quarters. And they're like, okay, well, that's where the money's. Oh, my God.

What an interesting man. That's one million quarters. I just did the math four times two. Good and fast. Yeah. Really easy you asked me. Well, I really, really enjoyed that. Me too.

I'm glad we got to do it. I'm glad your plane didn't crash and we got to do it. Me too. All blessings to Shaq. What a sweetie pie. Yeah. That's it. All right.

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