Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Synced: DePENS

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

In this episode of Synced, Monica and Liz debate the price of authenticity and revisit the pen conversation from last week, but this time include an expert. They answer listener questions on handling patriarchy in the workplace, getting over a comparison to an unflattering animal, and feeling shame for wanting one's partner to be more masculine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy Valentine's Day. Allentimes. It's nice and crisp. What is your perfect weather? I mean, in Celsius? Oh, 20. Which is? Pretty much today. So what is that, like 60?

That sounds about right. You still do Celsius even though you've been here for this long? It's really the last frontier. I know that 80 feels warm, but not hot. Okay. It's currently 57 degrees out. Oh, so we were right. Around 60 you like. Yeah. And it's a little lower than 20 actually right now. So that makes sense. What's your ideal temp? My ideal temp is 78. I like it hot. I like it hot too, but I like layers. I feel like if it's 20, especially an LA 20 is different than a anywhere else 20 or 60. Yeah, sure. But you're cozy. I can wear my cozy clothes. That's true. I feel like I wear sweaters and sweatpants and stuff even when it's hot. I think both of our body temperatures run low if we get cold easily. Yeah, definitely, definitely.

Definitely. How's your week? It's good. What's been going on? I don't even know. Well, we can't talk about Super Bowl, but maybe we could if there's something to talk about. Did you watch the whole thing? I did. And I learned

the rules. That's great. The Swifties, we've done something right. Or Taylor Swift has really, I mean, that's kind of a huge theme right now that girls watch it with their dads for the first time and like we're into football for the first time. I couldn't watch by the end. I was too nervous for the players. You were stressed. You got into it.

I got into it. That's great. And then I saw them with the little confetti falling on them and the ones that lost. And I was like, that's why I don't do this. It was hard. Did you get into it? No. I went to a friend's to watch it. And then I mainly sat outside. We were just chatting. This was a big party. And then I went home after halftime to work. I assumed, wrongly, I assumed the Chiefs were going to lose based on when I left. And so when I just randomly looked it up, I was like, oh, it got good. No, it did. Yeah, which is a bummer that I didn't stick it out. But I've been catching up on the commercials. I saw my boyfriends had a commercial.

Yes, they did. Which was really exciting. And it was Sim because today we put out an episode of Flightless Bird of Donuts. So that was my dad did that. Yeah. For sure. He's been doing a lot. He's been working hard lately.

He's been busy. How's your week? My week has been good. But let's see. Since we did our concerts, what has happened? I had dinner with, oh, Anthony. Shout out, Anthony. A belated little birthday thing for him.

I was bringing up what we talked about last week, which she obviously didn't hear because he doesn't listen, which was basically this Celine Dion, Taylor Swift thing and just how everyone's looking for every little problem. And we were talking about that. We were talking about in general, just podcasts and guests. And he said, did you see the thing Tina Fey said? Oh. Did you see?

I did. Okay. On Bowen Yang's podcast. Yeah, on Bowen Yang. And I want to play it. Yeah, good idea. Also, I was like, Tina Fey, my timeline. I love it. I'll take it. Also, I was like, Tina Fey, my timeline. I love it.

I'll take it. I don't think so, honey. Bowen Yang giving his real opinions about movies on this podcast. I regret to inform you that you are too famous now, sir. What's going to happen? You having a problem with salt burn? Quiet luxury. Keep it to yourself, because what are you going to do

when Emerald Fennell calls you about her next project, where you play Carrie Mulligan's co-worker in the bridal section of Harrods, and then Act 3 takes a sexually violent turn, and you have to pretend to be surprised by that turn. You hang out with Ariana and Spongebob, now that is your life. Okay.

And Matt Rogers, I can tell you, you got about one year left and then you, yes, learn from my mistakes, learn from Ayo. Podcasts are forever.

Authenticity is dangerous and expensive. I don't think so, honey. Oof. I mean, I love her more than anything. And she's right. But wow, the line authenticity is dangerous and expensive. It's so honest and it is so depressing.

Also, Tina Fey, I don't know her personally, so I'm totally making up a story here that could be wrong. But her last really in the spotlight moment where I feel like there was a shift since then was the whole sheet cake SNL bit. Do you remember that during the Trump years? And she did a sketch on SNL where she's just eating cake. I don't remember the details of it. It was either like, I can't deal with the world, basically. I can't go to another protest. I'm just going to eat cake, basically. You know, a joke about-

The overwhelm. The overwhelm that a lot of people were feeling. And it's SNL and she's literally eating cake. You know, it's her job. And so there was this huge backlash at the time saying, this is white women who have the luxury. Oh my God. I mean, I never jumped on that bandwagon. Like I just- Oh, this is white women who are choosing to opt out? White women have the privilege to be able to eat cake and not do anything. People of color don't, which obviously is an important idea.

I'm not sure taking it out on Tina Fey. On an SNL sketch. Yeah. And honestly, I feel that since then, she has not really been in the spotlight in the same way that she was before that. I feel like it's been a long time. I mean, I think she's been very smart and kind of calculated her whole career about this. Like, she'll go on Seth and she'll go on, like, her friend shows and stuff and do small bits.

But I've never known her to be very forward-facing about something or an opinion. She was pretty, I mean, to be fair, like even I, so I did women's studies. I did an entire term paper on 30 Rock, like how 30 Rock embodied post-feminist theory. That's using art to do it. That's a much different thing. Well, even on SNL. But again, that's not her. Her as a comedian. On SNL, she, like, the report, the weekend update. They're not playing characters necessarily. But anyway, I get what

you mean. It is different than going on a podcast and talking about a movie or your opinion on something. Yeah. I just viewed her as a very outspoken feminist figure before that. And then after that, she just was not front- facing. Again, not that she was the most outspoken person that was speaking out on all things, but I did feel that that was like a shift. And again, I think that when I heard that podcast interview, I was like, oh, that probably was like a lesson for her. To me, that speaks to that moment for her. Yeah, we don't know. She probably won't come on to talk about it. But I think what she said is really correct. But only if you care about, like she's saying, like, what happens if Emeril calls you?

You have to decide you don't care if she calls. That's the thing. I guess you have to have enough security in your position in this world, which she has, to just say like, fuck it. I don't care if anyone else ever calls me again. I'll still do stuff or I'll put stuff out or I will be in charge of my life and my thoughts. But I can't care about climbing in this business. Yeah. And once you give that up, I think authenticity is not expensive or dangerous. It's just authenticity. That's a really interesting question, right? Like, can we be authentic anymore? And how expensive is it? I certainly feel like I can be less authentic than I was

like five years ago. In a short amount of time, I think that we've turned on each other. Oh, big time. And expected so much out of people. And there's so much more, yeah, scrutiny and the precision with which we analyze people and that we're constantly being watched. That's the thing. You almost have to, you can't care about getting picked apart or getting, which will inevitably happen if you say what you think. So it's deciding not to care. And it is the thing that got Trump elected. It's already going to bring up Trump. Exactly. What got him elected is a lot of people thinking like,

well, you fucking can't say anything. You can't say what you feel. And this guy is giving me an outlet to say what I feel. So I'm doing it. I just wish there was a more bird's eye view outlook on some of this picking apart of our own. Of like people that we know are fundamentally good. I think it's a different story if it's someone that's not fundamentally bad, but that is doing it on purpose or-

Making actively bad decisions that hurt people is a different thing than picking apart people for no reason and for your own entertainment and saying like, that's bad to say or you shouldn't say that. And then that just makes those people go away or go in the opposite direction. We're going to find out. I know. Scary. Would you feel like you can be authentic? For the most part, yes, I do. Who knows? Who knows? Life is long and I'm not that old, but I don't know. I mean, there are definitely things

I feel that I can't say. Say them. Okay. Let's say all the things. Yeah. So I guess in some ways that's true. But I also feel like we don't have to have an opinion on everything. That part. I also don't need to say everything, I think. I wonder if that's a millennial trait. Because I remember being in school and being taught to have an opinion. Like we'd read a section of something and then we'd write our opinion about it. I think that's very good, especially for women. It's giving agency and saying, you're allowed to have thoughts on this and you should have a thought on this. You should decide something about this. And I think maybe us growing up like that has put us in this position now with all these external

monsters like social media and things that have caused the opinion meter to just be at 100 at all times because there's so many things to have an opinion on and we're trained to. I mean, this is like a generous take that we're just programmed to have an opinion because we were taught to. To me, the problem is not that people have opinions. The problem is that we think that having different opinions is bad. I think having different opinions is great. Yeah, exactly. And if we're talking about term papers and like being in high school, like we were encouraged to debate.

We were encouraged to talk things out and to be able to argue respectfully. And now it's like any disagreement is viewed as this horrible thing. And again, can lead to horrible things, right? Like people losing jobs and friendship sending and all these things, right? And so what I'm trying to do right now is really increase my capacity for discomfort. And I feel

that my ability to tolerate someone who has a different opinion than me, it's really bad. I think a lot of this started like 10 years ago. I just feel like I had a different brain in 2015. It was just not as... More open. Yeah. Or it wasn't life-ending if someone had a different stance on something. Yeah. And I think that there was more gray areas, more nuance. And again, we always reminisce and we remember the past being like much better than it was. But I do think that it's just been hyper-polarized. And I mean, we all have this bias where we remember information that confirms our opinions more than information that doesn't. Yeah, confirmation bias. It's real.

And so you have to kind of actively fight that. Yes. I'm trying to do that on a personal level. It's hard. And like with dating, it's okay that this person has a really different view. Again, I'm not going to tolerate someone, you know, having an opinion that dehumanizes me or something like that. Right. But I'm really trying to be open.

Yeah, I think we have been conflating opinions and values. Right. Because people are allowed to have different opinions. I do think if you're dating someone or you're spending a lot of time around someone, it's okay to hope that they share your values. And in fact, I think that's fundamental to what's going to be a long-lasting relationship. You have to know that values are shared, but opinions fluctuate and change so much within that. We think they're the same thing and

they're not. Yeah. There's this thing of, we think that our errors are not our intention. And we think that other people's errors are their intention, like that they deliberately, you know, and we make up reasons without even knowing it. It's mostly subconscious. Oh, this person believes this because of all these things. But in many cases, it's just the same value, but a flipped way to sort of approach that value. And that means you have to ask questions and like actually want to listen to the answer. Yes. I was doing all this research about like, are we in our avoidant era?

Just the increase, like there's literally been an increase in like avoidantly attached people and we're less tolerant than our grandparents were. Like there's like data really to support these feelings that we're feeling. But I think just knowing that it's happening helps us have strategies in order to address it

and hopefully change it. Yeah. I want to call Jess. Oh. We're going to do part two of pens because he didn't pick up and it's important that he speak for himself. It's been on my mind.

Ready? Let's see if he'll pick up. Hi. Hi, you picked up. Yay. We're recording and I wanted you to speak on the pens because you didn't get a chance to last week. I didn't want to put words in your mouth. Hi, Liz. Hi, Jess.

It's not even about the money. We only get three pens. And every single time newer servers ask managers for another pen, they roll their eyes and we get shamed for it. You're losing your pens. You're not handling your your pens. You're not handling your payments correctly. You're not grabbing your checks. So every time someone steals one of our pens, it's annoying. And plenty of times guests have asked me, I love this pen. May I have it? And every single time I say yes. I just want consent, Monica. I know. I know you do, but your restaurant is my favorite restaurant, so I don't want to poo-poo it, but that feels like an issue with management.

I'm going to stop you right there. If a billion dollar company is doing that, you don't think that the smaller restaurants that are making half as much money as us are? I went to corporate and I bought 400 pens for $300 and gave them out to people because I love pens and I hate that we don't get pens enough. You did that because you were afraid of your bosses. They didn't say buy pens. You did that because you didn't want pens taken and then for you to then get in trouble, which I totally understand, but I think that's like Stockholm syndrome. No restaurant, especially one of the level and caliber and money that your restaurant has, should be shaming the employee for the pen getting taken.

I don't think the hotel, the front desk at the hotel, like who's getting in trouble at the hotel when the patron takes the pen? It's no one's responsibility. I wonder, do we know anybody else who works in restaurants? Because you're in a specific one that I feel like is potentially an anomaly. They have their own culture. Exactly. And so I wonder, like, do you know anyone? I've got a friend that was a waiter for a long time and a GM. I think all corporations count their money, whether it is $400 for pens, whether it's $30 for straws, for its paper napkins, every single dollar has to be accounted for. And a pen is a pen, whether it's a dollar.

But I'm saying, why aren't they incorporating that into the cost? Like all businesses do. You have sunk costs, and that should be one. It is. Well, then they can't be mad. Well, I am not going to speak for my company. Yeah. I think that many people at my restaurant take my company for granted.

Who cares? They have a lot of money. Let's just take this right. Let's just take these straws. You know, pens grow on trees. No one says that. I've never heard anyone say pens grow on trees. But now I'm taking the corporate stance on this, where I think some restaurants are restaurant smart and some restaurants are corporate smart.

And I do buy into people lose their ties. They lose their tie clips. They lose their pens. They left them in the car. Like over and over and over again, people are irresponsible. So on top of that, when guests take them, it's annoying. Support for Synced comes from Open.

We've been talking about this. Breath work is really important. I've been trying to incorporate it a lot more, especially before bed, because I have not been sleeping well. And so I've been doing the stillness for sleep class, which is just five minutes, which is easy because I get really, I feel very,

it's very daunting to think about like doing like a 20 or 30 minute meditation or something, but this is quick. It just gets you connected to your breath. And I found it very helpful before bed. I love their yoga classes. I did their morning flow class and now I'm kind of addicted to it every morning because I kind of need it to shake up my morning routine. Yeah, they have a great community of people all doing it together and it's really nice

because there's breathwork, meditation, and fitness. So you kind of are getting all the things that you need to start your day or end your day all in one place. It's really, really great.

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And if you're noticing like things start to happen on your face, acne, aging, it can be all consuming. And that's why I really, really like Curology because it is a personalized prescription skincare program, really. Like the products are made to address your problem area. What I love is that you literally fill out a quiz, right? You tell them exactly how your skin is because the I love is that you literally fill out a quiz, right? You tell them exactly how your skin is because the amount of products that I've bought thinking that, again, they look great or work great for someone else's skin, and then you try them on yourself and, you know, your skin reacts to it or it makes things worse or it makes you break out.

It's actually a great way to actually save money on skincare because you know that you're getting exactly what's right for you. For a limited time, you can get your first Curology skincare box for just $5 when you go to Curology.com slash synced. Go to Curology.com slash synced for this free offer. That's Curology, C-U-R-O-L-O-G-Y.com slash synced, S-Y-N-C-E-D. Trial is 30 days. Applies only to your first box. Subject to consultation. New subscribers only. Okay, Liz, you were going to say something. I mean, I have a lot of thoughts

because I worked at a bar where they weighed the almonds. Like we served, it was a microbrewery and so we served almonds and they weighed them so that if you put too much like in the bowl, like you would get like, it would come off of you. Yes. Like it was a way to kind of, but again, I kind of relate to Jess where there's a certain

level of once you're in the culture, you do kind of buy into it. Of course, I've done that. So I remember sometimes my friends, even who worked at other places, they're like, they weigh the food. Like that's crazy. And then take it out friends, even who worked at other places, they're like, they weigh the food. Like, that's crazy. And then take it out of your check if there's like too much. But I just thought like, oh no, but almonds are really expensive and like they're really good.

And like you have to put in the right amount. And then nothing, like, it's sort of like if no one takes the pens and everything works, but you kind of have to absorb it or else you don't, how do you survive it? Well, you can't survive in a culture that you're constantly bucking.

I mean, I do think that's true. This isn't a diss on anything. It's just... Exactly. But Liz, you believe that pens should be allowed to be taken unless they're personals. If they're personals, you can't. Yes. Again, hotels, you take it.

I think that's like a no-brainer. You take all the toiletries or else you're losing money. But in a restaurant, I don't know if I would assume that I can take it. I agree. Hotels to me is a no-brainer. It's absolutely part of the cost. But you just disagreed with me on that. What?

No, I don't go to hotels as much as you. So I don't know the culture. And I feel like I've taken soaps and stuff. You're allowed to. Like, they are replacing them daily. But I agree at a restaurant, it's more gray. And I think it might be restaurant to restaurant. Can we agree on that?

This mom took three of my pens. And I go, oh, did you see the pens? And the mom was already in the car. And the son was like, I didn't see them. And then I was like, oh, no biggie. And I smiled. Then he came back. He had gone to the

car and asked his mom's for the pens back but this is and that didn't make me feel a little sad yeah yeah that's not because that is not the responsibility of that kid to now have to manage the mom's pens exactly but i also just said did you see the pens? All I did was ask where the pens were. Yeah. Why did she have three pens? Because they split the check. Oh. It's weird if you're one person taking three pens, but if you split the check and everyone takes the pen,

I could see how that could happen. And it would spread. Like if one person takes it, then the other people think it's okay. Because also, Jess, I forget, does your pen say the name of the restaurant on it? Yes. It does. Well, some don't.

It depends. Oh, it depends. Okay. It depends. Depends. Yeah. Alright, well, I just wanted you to be able to speak on this as an expert and someone in the field. I see all sides. I don't think you're wrong.

I do think it's a gray area. And I do think, because I have one foot in the door as a trainer and a leader at that restaurant, and also one in the foot of the door where I'm just a server, and I just, I get it. Wait, can I ask- But I also do see irresponsibility with servers. They separate that themselves, and they say, responsibility with servers. They separate that themselves and they say, us and them. Well, corporate has that money or the restaurant can do that or they can afford it. Right. And it's we can afford it. It's us. Yeah, I see what you mean. More of a group where like, no, those ends that you're losing is our money, not their money.

Yeah. I mean, it depends on how the company's treating the employees, though. It's top down. You have to make your employees feel like you're a family in order to get that from them. And I see both sides on that, too, because, yes, I think we're a little bit fear-based at our place, but it also makes people tighten up. I think this manager's hanging out with servers and sleeping with them and being really cool. We're really fun. And oh my God, don't worry about the pens. That guest complaint doesn't matter. We're cool. Let's go to get a beer. It's also toxic. Yeah, there's a balance. Okay, Liz, you're going to ask a question. This has been on my mind. So is it rude to make

the server split the bill between four people? Like if four people are having dinner and not just split it four ways, but actually be like, I want to pay for what I eat. No, you can't do that. Oh, that's a great question, Liz. Because I've been with a group of people who have a tendency to do this. And I always just feel, because I remember being a waitress, I didn't make each person, like you make a table, right? You split it evenly or mainly one person pays and then you Venmo. I mean,

you can still end up doing that, right? Where you're splitting it, you pay for what you've bought, but you don't put that on the server. Well, people do. That's a problem, right? Right. I will say I don't mind it so much. I joke and I say, okay, one year of college, wish me luck. And they always laugh because I have to figure out each person's orders. But it does get tricky if you've got a spinach dip. Whose does that go on? So what I do is I give them a pen. I go just write one, two, three, four on all of the items, and then I'll separate it for you.

Oh, that's good. Wait, so some people say, here are our cards. You figure out? Yes. Before they get the cards, they say, can you just separate it for what we got? Oh, my God. That happens. And I look at them and I go, yeah, I think I can.

But some of these things you guys all share. Yeah. You need to decide who has the cheese toast, who has the cobbler, who has the spinach chip. Here's a pen. You write down one, two, three, four. And they're like, okay. That's absurd. I've never

seen that. I need to intervene. It's become normal. Someone in the group was like, oh yeah, my friend's a waitress. And she said, it's not harder. In my head, I was like, it is. But maybe I was like, maybe there's a different system in America because I never was a waitress here. It is harder. Of course, it's harder than running one card or even four cards the same. Yeah. We have an equal pay button. So you just pray for equal pay. That's great. It's really easy.

But I had six separate checks. And also they wanted to pay for two meals at another table. So I had to go down to the other table and go, what did you order? Oh, shit. I had a salmon and a Coke. Okay. So then I had to separate the salmon and the Coke and then move it over to my table. Oh, God.

And then I had to separate it six times. Oh, God. Remember, Jess, because he does that joke about the college? Anna, Julia, Jess, and I were at a restaurant. Oh, my God. And Jess tried to transfer the joke over. And he said, did you go to college? And it did not transfer.

Oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. First of all, I was a little bummed. Second of all, he didn't understand my joke. Exactly. No one would understand

that joke out of, with no context. I think what happened is maybe we were, we were probably asking for something and then it was, did you go to college?

Oh my God. No, I'm going to check the tapes because And then it was, did you go to college? Oh my God. No, I'm going to check the tapes because I think it was a four-way split, which is kind of a thing. I'm saying, well, you went to college, right? Or something like that. I think it was a straight up ask. You might have to call Anna.

Anyway, okay. That's it. Thank you for weighing in. Yeah. I love you guys so much. Love you. Bye. Tip your server. Don't make them sweat the bill. That's it. Thank you for weighing in. Yeah. I love you guys so much. Love you. Bye. Tip your server.

Don't make them sweat the bill. Oh my God. Wow. So you've been in that. It's been like a new thing I've noticed with the group. And I need to stop it. I need to intervene. I've never, I've never.

We can't make them do that. Yeah. I think at this stage in life, like in college, we did a lot of like the last four digits of the card dash this amount. And we'd figure it all out and write it. But now that's ridiculous. We're not doing that anymore. We have Venmo.

Like one person takes the tip. There's a way to kind of. Yeah. Wow. Report back on how this goes over. I think if I'm firm enough and because I was in the field at one point, I can use that as like, guys, this is shitty. It's hard when people have different standards. Opinions.

It all circles back to that. Opinions, but this also is values. Because at a restaurant, there's implied status between the patron and the server. And so if you're taking advantage of the server, to me, that's a values issue. Unless if you think it's as, again, if this lie that it's as easy and someone has told them that and they believe it, then it allows them to... Yeah, they don't think they're doing anything wrong. Exactly. But when I'm on a date or with anyone who does express that, it's really hard. I feel like you're actually pretty good about this.

I get pretty codependent in restaurant situations. I am not returning a meal, really. Never. No. That surprises me though. But I think I've seen you not return a meal, but you get specific. Can you replace or can I have this?

You're not annoying, but you're specific about your asks. Yeah. And I am not. I'm like even, okay, so me and you went to brunch and I was there early. It was a packed place. So I felt a little stressed because the hostess asked, is your full party here? And I said, no, she's on her way. And she said, okay. And I said, do you have the podcast? And she was very sweet. And so she sat me and then I got in my head that she hadn't known me. She would have said your whole party has to be here. So I got a little anxious that she was like giving me something. And so I ordered my drink and then we were waiting for you. And I felt, I was feeling anxious and the server came back and I said, I'll order her drink. But I couldn't

remember your order. So I ordered what I thought was right, which was matcha latte with regular milk. And then he brought it. And then you texted me that it was almond milk. And I was like, oh, fuck. But I was like, I'll never return that. I was like, I'll drink it. And then he can't, you know, you arrived, the server came back and you said, I'll have a match latte. And he pointed to the one and I said, ah, I messed it up. I gave the wrong order, but I'll drink it. And he was like, no, I'll like, he was happy to replace it. But I, no, like that's my mistake. Yeah. And it's my mistake if I ordered it the wrong temper.

I don't know. I just like, I don't feel comfortable asking for specifics at restaurants. If I wasn't not allowed to eat dairy, I would have done it. Don't eat meat. And if they put bacon in the thing and I'm like, I literally can't eat it. But if I didn't specify it and it said bacon and I didn't tell them to take it out, I'm not going to return it. And so it's happened to me many times where I'll be with someone, I'll be like, oh, fuck, there's bacon in this. And then sometimes they'll be like, is everything okay? And I'm like, and I will lie. I will be like, everything's great. Like, I'm just not that hungry. Can I get it in a box? And then I'll give it to someone or the

person I'm with. But if I specified it and they said yes, and if it's just a taste thing, I would do it. But if it's something I can't eat, it's just like, I can't. Yeah, I think that's better, right? Especially, yes, if you've specified and something comes out wrong, I think it's totally fine. It's just a weird personal thing. I feel embarrassed. Me too. Me too. So I was at Alcove the other day and just working and this woman next to us, next to me, me and my computer, got this plate, some sort of breakfast item, pancake situation. I'm not really paying attention, but I'm clocking it like they bring it. And then she catches the waiter. She's like, hey, this is like cold. Can you give me any one?

I'm already like, oh God, I would probably never do that. And then the woman brings her back her thing and she says something else is wrong. And then she brings her back that pancake item and then she returns it again. She's like, it's still cold. Oh my God. And I, at that moment, I was like,

I'm having trouble just being in their vicinity. The courage it would take for me to be able to do that. What if it's just a cold dish? That's what I thought. I was like, eat it, dude. Like maybe. But then I noticed that the guy behind the counter who was doing the coffees felt very bad

and then like brought her a free thing. And then he noticed that she like didn't finish something, didn't eat a lot of it. And she's like, no, no, I'm just really not that hungry. Like I just got it to taste it. But this guy was like, would you want a free dessert? Like he gave her this free dessert. So she got rewarded for, I'm just really not that hungry. Like, I just got it to taste it. But this guy was like, would you want a free dessert? Like, and gave her this free dessert. So she got rewarded for what I think would just be mortifying.

But it stressed me out to just be around it. Support for Synced comes from Needed. Pregnancy and postpartum are some of the most nutritionally demanding times in a woman's life. I mean, these babies are just there. Sucking everything up. They're sucking everything up. And a mom and her baby's health now and for years to come is influenced by her nutrient status. Proper nutrition, getting the proper nutrients is critical to the fertility journey through postpartum. We know this from experience.

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use code SYNC for 20% off your first month of needed products. We are supported by Quince. I just did a closet clean out and I was generous and I gave my leather jacket away. I gave it to my friend Amy and it looks so good on her. It's so cute. We were all like, people were over yesterday and they were trying it on and everyone was going crazy for it. They were like, oh my gosh, it's so cute because it's also casual. It has like a fleece

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slash sync for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash sync to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash S-Y-N-C. Okay, let's do some questions. Okay. Okay, let's do some questions. Okay. How do you know if it's chivalry or patriarchy? This is from Annie. I work in a very male-dominated workplace. In a recent discussion about a work trip,

it was brought up that the vice president of my department wouldn't feel comfortable in a car with myself or other women by themselves. I feel like this is subtle discrimination. This is a relationship business, and the fact that a man could get one on one time with the VP in any situation while I can't seems like just another way to limit opportunities. When I bring it up, my point is quickly dismissed,

and I'm told I'm overthinking it, but I also feel like that's a bit of gaslighting and male privilege. I would love your perspective on navigating this tricky workplace topic. That's 100% patriarchy. Oh my God. Can't be in the car.

What's wrong with him? He can't be in a car with a woman? Yeah, he's gonna- There's something he needs to fix. Yeah, that's his issue. That's, yeah. It's his issue, but it sucks because he's in power. He's the vice president.

So he gets to make that decision. And then it is so imbalanced and so unfair that a man just gets that one-on-one time, which makes a huge difference in business to have these like relationships and more time with the guy up top. What's so funny is that he's vice president and Mike Pence famously. I know. He was vice president. Also had a rule where he couldn't have dinner with women or couldn't partake in any kind of after work activity, networking, whatever you call it, with the other gender. You're literally limiting the

freedom of the other gender and the opportunities as a cover for trying to avoid sexist encounters. It's like putting this invisible shield between you and women instead of just addressing your own sexism or the misogyny that would lead you to do something wrong if you were along with a woman. It's almost like a kid that says like, well, I'm just not going to do it at all then. If I can't be sexist, then I'm just not going to do it. No, the goal is that you just aren't sexist or don't behave in a way that makes women feel uncomfortable.

This is really hard. It sucks because she's brought it up and it's getting dismissed. I don't know what to do about that. I would file an HR complaint. I don't know how big this company is. Against the vice president? I mean, you can, but I don't know how much that's going to do.

Sure, HR works for the company. It's not like an all be all and it won't fix everything. But I do think that they also get scared about complaints. And like, that's something you could, again, file discrimination suit for and like they're afraid of those things. So I would at least file a complaint and just say like, this is a rule. Because again, the fact that it's an official rule actually plays against them. If this was

just something that was kind of informally done, it would be harder for you to have a case against them. But if this is an official... Well, it official company... It says, it was brought up that the vice president of my department wouldn't feel comfortable in a car with myself or other women by themselves. It doesn't feel like it's a rule rule. It seems like that's his personal rule. So it won't happen. Yeah. So I would send an email.

I would just put things in writing either to the supervisor, not maybe to the vice president, but whoever on the team told you that and be like, I just want to make sure I understood things correctly. Because this feels, you could even, again, give them the benefit of the doubt and be like, I know this company stands for equality and the promotion and empowerment of women and wouldn't deny them opportunities based on discrimination. So I probably misunderstood. Is there a reason why only men get to ride in the car or whatever? I would just come in from like a generous perspective.

Yeah, I think that's a good way to start. But it sounds like she did this. She said, when I bring it up, my point is quickly dismissed. And I told I'm overthinking it. I'm sure that will be the email response back. I do think putting it in writing is not a bad thing. But sometimes, I don't know, this is a demoralizing answer, but I don't think it's going to change there. I think part of it is maybe finding an exit strategy eventually,

or like understanding your exit strategy and moving to a company where that type of culture doesn't exist. Because these boys clubs, it's so hard to change from the inside. And people, I think, get overwhelmed trying to do that. And maybe what's best for you is to go and find an environment where this doesn't exist or is less. I mean, it exists almost everywhere, but where it's less and it's less explicit like this. And you can even like when you go into your next job interview, I think it's powerful to say, you know, I was at this company and this was part of the culture. I'm wondering if it's part of the culture here because I'm not interested in that. Also, that's like a badass thing to say.

And I think people will really respect it. But sometimes you have to leave a situation. You can't hope the situation changes. Right. I mean, there's two options. It's both, probably. Try and do something. And again, then if you do want to work somewhere else or you are figuring out your plan B, you can be more bold and make complaints. There's not allowed to be retribution, but you can be less worried about that happening if you are creating a contingency plan. I don't know what her job means to her. There's probably things that she likes about it. Well, of course. That's why this is hard. It's not easy to just leave a job and get a new job. That's inherently the problem with this patriarchy, right? Maybe your job's really good and you're probably being told that you're lucky to be there and you might be, but it's

uncomfortable to say this out loud, but you have to choose. Is it worth it? Because yes, put in the complaint. Again, I don't know the culture there. There are circumstances where I would not feel comfortable doing that. I know it would come back to me in subtle ways where I just would be like, that's not worth it. So it's understanding what you're getting, make a pros and cons list. And if it's worth it to you to stay in this environment for your own future and yourself, then do it with acceptance that this is the culture. And if it's not, then I think look for a way out.

It doesn't have to be like, tomorrow I'm quitting. It's just develop a strategy for eventual departure. I also think don't take this all on your own or don't put this all on your own shoulders. I do remember I worked at a company where it wasn't that level or sort of explicit rules, but women were getting cut off. Women's ideas weren't being taken as seriously. And what we started doing is we got together as women, not outwardly because of that sexism, but we started just banding together more. And like there's women, insert company, dinners where we would go out once a month and then we'd all get together and talk.

And obviously a lot of these things would come up. And so then we also just had each other's backs more. That's nice. I like that. And change the culture together. Because again, male-dominated spaces are hard, especially if women are the minority. But the more there are of you working towards something, the more you can actually shift the culture and make it unacceptable for them to continue doing that. It's one thing if they're getting one question, but if another woman amplifies your question says, no, actually, I don't think she's overthinking it. It makes me uncomfortable too. Then they have a problem and then they can't ignore it or sort of brush it under the rug. So I would find and connect with other women at your office. Yeah, I wonder how

many there are. A lot of companies now even have women's networks, like big corporate, sometimes even have established initiatives. But yeah, just even just grab coffee and like go hang out with them and bring it up to them so that you don't feel alone. Yeah, that's a good idea. Okay, great. Oh, God. Okay. How do I get over my husband comparing me to a baboon? This is from Laurel.

Tonight at dinner, I randomly brought up the topic of, quote, spirit animals. Granted, I'm not Native American and was using it in the more generic sense of what animals share similar traits. I told my husband his animal was a walrus, studious, nautical, not overtly aggressive, but with a reserved sense of power. He said mine was a baboon. When pressed to explain, he said baboons are smart and beautiful. He's not a total dummy, is in parentheses. I explained that I found this deeply offensive. Baboons are not notoriously liked or seen as attractive or feminine animals. Plus, I'm already a primate, so it was kind of a lazy choice. He eventually landed on Fox, but the damage was done. He apologized, but seemed more frustrated with me as if I asked a

trick question to intentionally trap him. I cried in the bathroom when we got home. I know this is silly. I do, but how do I get over this and not let it damage my relationship or my self-esteem? Having a hard time just letting go. Oh. I feel like this isn't about the baboon. Walrus seems worse than baboon. They're pretty equally... Yeah, not great. Not attractive. But look, I think you have to take them at face value.

He says to him, they're smart and beautiful. It'd be one thing if he was like, you're like a baboon. Like you're like... Ugly and... Stocky and like a lot of hair. And the traits he's associating are positive. I feel bad saying this to Laurel,

but I would feel that you trapped me if you asked me specifically and I gave you my honest opinion and then you got really upset. Which by the way, I do this to Dax all the time. Like on the show, I'm constantly trying to get him to like, say what animal I am and say the name that I would be if I was a boy. Like I'm always asking and then I'm always like, that's a horrible answer. But I can't take it personally because one, I trust that he has me in high regard. So whatever he's going to

say is coming from that place and he's not there to tear me down. And I think you should remember that, that unless you don't feel that way. If it's touching a nerve in that way, maybe it's touching a nerve that's not really about the baboon. It's about, we don't know judging from your letter, but that there's a suspicion that you have or an opinion that you have of yourself that now you're kind of projecting onto him because of the baboon thing. This is what happens when I do it. I feel ugly and I want him to prove to me that I'm wrong, right? And when he says chinchilla, my expectation was that I was going to feel so good after. And then he's just being honest. And that's my issue. If I felt great, I wouldn't give a fuck what he said. I mean, this is a weird example, but I feel like if I gave an animal to a guy,

let's say like, you're like a chipmunk because you're like sweet. And like he would, because of masculinity standards, he would take it personally. I wouldn't have thought about it, but I can understand how he would be upset. And I think the reverse is true, where he just didn't think, you know, that like for a woman. He didn't think it wasn't feminine. Yeah. Sometimes I think we also have these disconnects between genders. And if a woman had said that to you, maybe it would actually be like mean something different

than a man. And so again, knowing what his intention was, I think is the most important thing. In my experience, these types of questions never go well. They just never do. We need to stop asking. That's true. I did have a friend when she was like, don't ask him a question that you don't, you're not prepared to hear the answer to. And I remember that was like, oh yeah, I got to sometimes bear some of the responsibility. Yeah, it's a two-way. Anyway, I'm really sorry this did affect your self-esteem. But I think that's something unique.

The call, yeah, coming from inside the house. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. This is the one I was supposed to start with last time because it might be long. Okay. Let's try.

My husband isn't the most typically masculine and sometimes I don't love it. How would you handle this? Anonymous. Hi, Monica and Liz. I married a very smart, attractive, funny, and sensitive man. We have a pretty great relationship. He's not typically masculine and has what would be considered feminine interests and hobbies. He's a great conversationalist and gets along with all of my girlfriends. He's sensitive and listens to me. However, sometimes when I see him in an athletic environment with other men and he doesn't fit in, I feel so unattracted to him and a little embarrassed. He's such a sweetie, but he just can't kick it with the guys the way I know he really wants to develop more male friendships. I'm the sportier one in the relationship and

often find myself outdoing him in almost every sport we participate in. And I'm really not that athletic. What would you do if you found yourself feeling embarrassed? I felt so guilty for feeling this way the other day that it made me cry. I really don't want to subscribe to traditional gender stereotypes, but athletic strong men are hot. Also, how can I help him make friends in these environments? Love the honesty. If you remember, I think I talked about this in the first or second

episode, I wanted to call this podcast Mr. Jones after Bradley Cooper's character in Burnt because he was a total dick. He was awful and it was hot. And the reconciliation of that when you're a And the reconciliation of that when you're a feminist woman is very hard to say like, wait, this person's doing all the things that I know are wrong, yet I'm attracted. That leaves you feeling very disoriented. And to me, that's very similar to this, where you picked a person who meets your values and sometimes that like bumps up with our primal attraction to masculinity. Also like go easy on yourself. We've been programmed to like it. It's going to happen. You're going to bump up against it a little bit. To me, it's akin to like your husband liking a porn star, like, you know, or seeing a woman with giant fake boobs and being attracted to that,

even though he loves you and he's with you for a million more important reasons than that. I think we give so much meaning to it and I totally relate to Anonymous where I freak out about it when this shows up in my life too where I'll judge a guy for all kinds of things that our society expects them to be like. I think we give so much meaning to it when men also like these feminine ideals, even though those aren't the women that they choose long-term relationships with. I think it's not as deep as we think it is. I think it's deep if you are embarrassed by your partner and what you're embarrassed about is something you know in your head goes against your values.

I think it's actually extremely deep. It's a very hard thing to reconcile two things happening at once. And when you know to be true versus what your body is feeling. But I guess my point is more of the suffering is coming from her feeling shame about what she's feeling. As opposed to the feeling of, oh, this isn't attractive to me. Or, oh, this guy on the court playing with him is more attractive to me in this moment. I think that she's giving it meaning and feeling a lot of shame

about the fact that she's feeling it. And to me, that's where the source of the suffering and the discontent is coming from. If she were to accept that these passing feelings exist and will exist, but not give them too much meaning and to not ascribe meaning that then she turns on herself that there's something wrong with her, that she's feeling it. That's what I mean by it's not that deep. Like we can overthink that and again, create a story about it

and like, oh, I must be this horrible person or I must be sexist. And it's like, no, I'm a human being and I choose differently who I want for a long-term partner than who I want to hook up with in a one-night stand. Yeah. I think that you can go easy on yourself, understand that this is baked in and it's extremely normal to feel that way. And remember that we're not all the things. There's no one who has every single piece. There really isn't the perfection of like masculinity meets femininity. It's going to be imbalanced one way or the other. And you made a choice to choose the personality traits that you like. That's going to get you much further in the long run. So I think you definitely did the right thing. And the feelings

will come up and you can just feel them. Yeah. And then it's like, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Everyone's embarrassed by something also of their partner. Totally.

That part. Also, the opposite, like when they're so masculine and I know, I know. I don't want to talk about that though

because I don't want to perpetuate a thing, but like, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Let's talk about that, though. Because I don't want to perpetuate a thing, but like... Yeah. Anyway, no one has all the things. And so we have to understand that.

And sports might not be his... You know, I think she asked the second question about how to help him. Oh, with the male friends. Yeah. And sports might not be his thing. And that's fine. There are so many guys who don't like sports. There are so many guys who don't like sports. There's so many guys

who aren't into it. That's embarrassing, seeing a guy trying to be someone he's not. Whereas if he just leans to like, I don't care about sports. I don't even understand what they're doing.

Like, let's, you know, but encouraging him to meet men, meet men, meet different people in different ways other than that. Well, it sounds like he wants

more male friendships. And I have a friend who also wants more male friendships, who's a man. And male friendships are really important. So I agree, pivot the place. Don't put it in a sports environment.

Maybe it's like a book club or something. I don't know. Or volunteering at something that there's actual interest in. There's other places. Yes. And other things to bond over. Yeah. Sports might not be, I mean.

Especially if you don't care about it, you're not ever going to find a good male friendship there because you guys actually don't share. Yes, exactly. You don't have that like in common, so it won't even work. It won't even work. Exactly. So maybe like diversifying where the friendships happen. Okay. Well, I think that's going to be it for today. Did anyone ever call you a name of an animal that you didn't like? Probably. I can't recall. Often I get monkey.

I do identify a lot with monkeys. And see, I like that. Right. Because I think monkeys are playful and intelligent. Again, baboons are fucking smart. Like monkeys are my favorite animal. But I've had that thing of like asking a question that you just know, you don't want to know the answer to. It's not even just saying someone else

in a trap. It's like trapping yourself. Yeah. I mean, there are so many like, who would you date if you weren't dating me? Oh my gosh. Or even the hall pass question. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You have to be ready for whatever you're going to hear. Because you might hear the name of a person who's, well, it could go either way. One who looks just like you, which I think is flattering, but also you could be like, oh, they have a type and that's weird. Or someone who's so different from you and then that feels upsetting because that's your ideal and you don't have your, you know, it's just like, be careful out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Once I did ask one of my

ex-boyfriends, like I was like, so wait, like have you ever actually been to a strip club? Like he went into like an entire story about how he like fell in love with a stripper and I was like dissociating. It was just not, it was so hard for me to get it out of my head. And he gave me all these details and I was like, what have I done?

So yeah, just. A lot of it is knowing yourself, like knowing what you can hear and what you can't hear. Right. That's his experience. Totally. And so like, you're not looking back.

I'm like, okay. Very interesting. All right. Well, great job, everyone. Yeah, these were great questions. We'll see you next week. Bye.