Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Synced: The O.W.

Episode Date: August 16, 2023

In this episode of Synced, Monica and Liz question if modern women are replacing their intimate relationships with female friendships, they delve into the romance of Barnes & Noble, and they explore some Liz-isms. The two discuss listener questions on whether to expedite a marriage proposal and how to handle financial inequity in a marriage. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, good morning. You look so cute. You have two little clips in your hair that remind me of like fifth grade. Yeah, they're butterfly clips. I think they're back. You would look so cute. I would they're back. You would look so cute in a butterfly clip. I would look too little.

I would, I think. There's so many things that you can't wear because you would look too little, right? Like butterfly clips. Mainly butterfly clips. Other things.

Can you wear ribbons? I will wear a ribbon, but it has to be like Chanel. This is a hack, actually. I've done this. If you buy something from Chanel or Prada, they will put it in a box. It'll have a ribbon. And so then you can reuse the ribbon in your hair. And I did this once and my friend asked, oh my God, how much was that? Like $500? And I said, no, it was free. Wow.

I mean, the thing I purchased wasn't free. I was going to say more than $500. But free with purchase. Okay. And if you don't have the means to buy a Chanel item. Understand. Can you buy the thing, they wrap it in the ribbon, you take the ribbon, and then you return the thing? Would that be a hack on the hack?

Wow. Someone needs to try that and let us know. I feel like maybe they'll never be a sponsor now, but that's fine. Well, okay. I'm not encouraging people to buy stuff and bring it back. But let's say you change your mind, keep the ribbon and tell us if they get mad. They catch you. Okay. Liz, I haven't seen you in 10 days. A long time.

I think we got pedicures last week, but it feels like longer. No, you've been gone. I saw you a week ago. Wait, really? Yeah, because I left for Jamaica on Thursday, and I saw you on Wednesday. No, I saw you that day. Okay, I saw you, okay. So two Thursdays ago, that's like 10 days. That's 10 days. It's Monday. Oh, you on Wednesday. No, I saw you that day. Okay. So two Thursdays ago, that's like 10 days.

That's 10 days. It's Monday. Oh, you're right. That's okay. I don't know. You don't know what's going on. Okay. It's been too long. A really long time. And you went to Jamaica. I did. Tell me about Jamaica. Jamaica is so great. Tell me a story. So my friend Heather, last year I got a free trip to go to Turks and Caicos because I like to whore out my Instagram for anything. And I love that you own that. I do. My parents don't understand and value the work that I do, but they do value that.

They'll be like, now everything that you're doing that we don't get, it's worth it if you're getting deals. It's all about getting deals. God right mine as well like are you doing anything else i'm like mom there are five shows i'm doing five shows a week and she's like yeah but what about that thing you did that one time on your instagram i'm like oh my god they love a deal they love when we get deals yeah that's just like their love language is to teach us how to do that. We have a famous saying in my house. My dad says that buying things not on sale is for losers.

Like he literally was like, that's for losers. Your dad is going to hate what I said about Chanel. I would get disowned. And when I give something to my dad, if it's on sale, he will love it more. And I'll say it in the way that usually when you give a gift, you don't go like, by the way, I got this for a buck. You know, with him, it'll make him appreciate it more.

So they appreciate the deals. So I do appreciate a good deal. And so I got us a trip last year and then this year she got a trip. And so I got to just go to Jamaica and hang out. And it was really nice. That is so nice. We were the only single people at this resort.

It was like the true Michael Scott Sandals Resort. And everyone was either getting married or about to or just had. Honeymoon. Yes, it was Honeymoonville. But we were just frolicking. Like, we were definitely having the best time because we weren't. At the beginning, I was like, oh, maybe I'll feel weird. And then I was like, no, I love that I'm not with someone. I love that. You weren't with anyone,

but you were with a soulmate. Yes. If I'd been there alone, alone, maybe I wouldn't have felt that way. But I was like, I prefer to be here with this amazing friend than some whatever. Like, not that that's not also nice, but it was nice to like really not feel weird about that. Do you like going to a place where there's a lot of couples? No. Not really, except I say no, and yet my life is essentially me with a lot of couples. You have Jess. I have two single friends, you and Jess. Close friends, obviously. Sure. David. David. Oh, thank you. David. I have three.

Leave that in so he knows you don't care. No, he has a back problem. He has a back problem? She stabbed him in the back, but forget him. Yeah, he already has one back problem. No, he has two. I don't want to add more pain to his ailing body. I was going to say Anna, but she's deep in a relationship.

They're like essentially married. They just moved in together. Wow. Fuck. No, I think this is positive. I think that at a certain point, I was surrounding myself with too many single women. Oh, fuck. Rachel.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. The whole episode is going to be just shouting names of people. That's a big one to forget. So, four. Look, you have a names of people. That's a big one to forget. So four. Look, you have a lot of friends. You're very loved.

It's a very rich part of your life. So it's okay that you're single. Because I'm single, I believe. Well, that. Which is a positive. I think about that a lot. Even I think about it in terms of our egg freezing podcast that I just essentially squatted in LA for months and really immersed myself and really spent so much time with you. I was like, if I had been in a relationship, I think that would have maybe not

even been possible. There are so many upsides and you can develop your friendships on such a deeper level. But then I also think that it can go too far, particularly in big cities where people are very ambitious and particularly women are very ambitious. It can become so comfortable. Like your female friends become, I think, a replacement for a romantic or intimate relationship. And so it lets you kind of avoid building that kind of intimacy, which can be uncomfortable or take some effort. Even to a certain extent, I've been unlearning some of the feminist brainwashing of like, your relationships with women are always going to be better than a relationship with a man. I was comparing the men that I was going on dates with, with my female

friends, and they were never going to measure up. And I started being like, okay, so if female friendships are that great, and this amazing thing that I'm supposed to like invest in more and more in, shouldn't it prepare me for my relationships with men instead of impeding? A friend told me, it was unprompted, it was at a huge women's cool media event with a bunch of amazing women. And she was like, if you want to have someone in your life and you want to date, you have to create that space. You can't just fill it with your female friends.

Oh, she said that? She said that. What a bitch. I was like, thanks a lot. Wait, this is interesting. But do you agree? What do you think? I think I agree.

Do we think it's a problem to have your male relationship be fulfilling that physical intimacy and maybe father children or not, which we'll get into. Let's put a pin in that. Why does that male relationship have to be the most important one? Why can't that be the secondary one? I 100% agree.

But when you say that, you're not comparing them, right? You're seeing them as different. And I think the lie is that somehow your female friendship should feel the same as the man, if you are interested in men, that you're going to be intimate with. I think that we've conflated, even in the way that, right, like your relationship with a family member is different. And I wouldn't compare like my relationship with my dad to my relationship with you. It's like apples and oranges.

And I think that when we put such an emphasis, and I think we idealize female friendship, we're like, this is the most, I mean, and it is, but it kind of puts it on a pedestal that's unrealistic. And yeah, a guy that you're dating, which is a totally different relationship, can't measure up because it's also kind of different. And your friends also can't measure up and do things that, you know, that partner will do. Exactly. Do you feel like that's how you measure potential dating partner? No. Okay. I don't think I'm doing the comparison game because I think I'm mainly on dates evaluating chemistry, which I mean, I guess if I have like a new female friend in some ways, I guess that's the same, right? You're evaluating how it feels.

It's all, I guess it's all about chemistry, ultimately, which is weird. But I don't think I'm doing that with men, which is really good because I barely go on any dates anyway. If I was doing that, I mean, I do think my life is so full that it does stop me from going on dates. Right. Just because I have other fun stuff to do. But I don't think going on that date, I'm sitting there thinking like, well, this isn't as good as my friendship with this person. Or maybe sometimes I do think like, I'd rather be with Jess or Liz. But that's just like an evaluation of my time.

Like this person's boring. I'll think that too. And then I'm like, that's not good. Really? It's not supposed to feel the same way. Is this supposed to be boring? No, I don't think it should be boring, but I don't think it like, do you think that we're setting ourselves up to fail when we're comparing these dates to our amazing friends that are like shows and family? Yeah. And maybe this person will become that, but it's a different relationship. And to your point, yeah, my friends, there isn't that physical element.

There's a lot of things that my friends can't do that this person can do. And am I like, just focusing on what, how different they are from my friends and by that sort of setting myself up to be disappointed and to be like, oh, I shouldn't be with this person because they don't make me feel as good as Monica. I guess it's true. In some ways, you're right. That because our friendships are so strong, maybe it's shut down so quick before it has a chance to super grow into what could be a very meaningful relationship. Like if I'm meeting a new friend, that pressure isn't there. So it just feels like take it or leave it. And then if it's good, you let it grow. And maybe you don't with a man. Yeah. Because you're not rating the person if

they're a friend, right? When you meet someone new, you're just like, what's up? And you're not like, is this going to last? Is this person going to ruin my life? All these expectations. Yeah. That's true. I just think dating is like the worst format for the outcome that we want i always think there should be like a third thing it should be you the other person and like a thing like god god yeah i think it should be god between the both of you or a sheet um no i was that racist or whatever because like some religions have sheets between anyway just Oh, you said sheets? Sheets. I thought you said she. Someone is going to be mad at me.

I'm not worried about that religion. Okay. Because that's not healthy for a woman. I'm not worried. I'm not. Anyway. So, yeah, I think there should be a third thing, a show or a museum or even a walk. Like we're going to the observatory or whatever, because I think it sets it up as like the only thing we can talk about is this date.

Is ourselves. Is ourselves. And it's you and me and there's nothing. Sometimes if you go to dinner, I guess you can talk about the food, but like, oh, this is good. Like, and that's it. Because with a friend, you would be doing an activity. That's how you get to know

someone not like a job interview essentially that's what dating kind of becomes right because you don't have anything else to talk about except yourself i just think it puts a lot of pressure i like that so that's a good rule for first dates is it first dates or i'm into this for third dates for third i'm into it for first dates for For first dates. I think it makes it. First dates, third thing. Third thing, first date. Okay. Root it in something.

It de-romanticizes it. I started doing walks or again, getting an ice cream or like just something you would do with a friend. And then you're just kind of getting to know the person before you have this like

weird romantic pressure where you're sitting face to face and there's nothing to talk about but your childhood trauma well okay you don't like it no i do i do but then i think what would my third thing be i know you love hikes but even when you ask me to go on hikes i'm like i don't want to do that. I don't ask you anymore. I want to ask you like all the time. I know. I don't.

And I don't want to do that. I want to go shopping. Shopping. You should go shopping. Why not? Well, they might not want to. I guess that's stereotypical to say that the guy, but he probably does. Don't bring him to like Chanel, but maybe you could go to like, sorry.

Oh my God, you really don't want Chanel to sponsor us. Sorry it out what I mean is like he might not find anything interesting for him Chanel has guy stuff but I feel like you could go to farmer's market right or like a cool home shop then it feels like datey or like weird right we're moving in together oh god so many trends I know okay this is actually a date I read that somebody did once, and I thought this was such a good idea. Go to dinner. Yeah. And then go to Barnes & Noble. Wait, I love this.

Okay, good. And I love Barnes & Noble so much. I love Barnes & Noble. And then you're like walking around the bookstore, and then that's fun because you talk about books you like or things you like or this is funny or whatever. And then at the end, you separate. Oh. And if you want, you can sneak to the Starbucks part and get yourself a hot chocolate. That's this part I added.

Okay. And then don't get one for the partner. Because you want to keep some things for yourself, you know? Sure. And then you pick out a book for each other. Wait, I'm going to cry. Why is that the most perfect thing I've ever heard? That is so sweet.

And then if they pick something that's like so meaningful, or if they pick something extra out there. Wait, don't put too much. Okay, you're already putting, you're already making it way, way, way too intense. Deromanticize dating. What if they pick my favorite childhood book? It's like when Ross gets that children's book for Rachel. Was it Velveteen Rabbit?

Velveteen Rabbit. I just want that. I know you do. We all do. We all do. You know who else does? Jennifer Aniston. Jennifer Aniston.

And probably David Schwimmer. They should just get married already. I think it's gonna happen. It's too meant to be. And that's our reward for getting through the last 10 years. Or maybe it's just meant to be that they have a really special love

and it doesn't have to transition over to marriage. Maybe that's why it works. Exactly. Oh, God. Anyway, so Barnes & Noble date is something I want to do. We should do that. Just for us.

We should make each other a book. I know, but see, now we're—oh, sorry, shut up. Now we're doing exactly what you said we're not supposed to do, which is use each other for these dates. Why? Oh, my God. I have no fucking clue what I'm doing. Wait, why do I want to do that with you so bad?

I know, it would be fun. It would be fun. Well, one of my best friends, Anthony and I, we used to go to Barnes & Noble all the time when we lived by the Grove. We'd like go to the movies and then go to Barnes & Noble and it's the best. It's the best.

Yeah. It's the opposite of how I feel after I've been on my phone for an hour. An hour at Barnes & Noble is just rejuvenating. It's fills you up. Okay. Speaking of dating, we've had some sidebar conversations lately that I want to bring to this pod about men, really. Okay. Well, that's not fair. I don't want to make it necessarily about men. Have we already talked about your theory?

About? One of your main Liz theories? Lizisms? Hot men are untrustworthy? Lizums. Lizums and misms. Well, lizums is better because my name isn't Ms. Yeah.

We'll figure one out. We'll figure it out. What's the combination of both of them? Monica Fectations. Monica Fectations. Monica Fectations. We'll get there. It's more sophisticated and harder to spell.

Okay. One of your lisms is what you just said. Hot men aren't trustworthy. It's like a really hot take. Let me rephrase. Let me rephrase. If there are hot men listening, I don't think you're untrustworthy.

And you mean physically. Yeah, I do. You mean objectively? Yeah. What our culture deems as physically attractive. Exactly. I came up with this theory because in 2015, I'm in the green room at MSNBC. I've imported a hot man from Canada.

We'd met in Montreal, and then he came to New York so that we could hang out for the weekend. Oh. And this guy is the most attractive. Like, when I saw him, I literally was stunned. And then we started talking, and then we were all of a sudden kind of dating. And so I had to do a segment and I was like, hey, do you mind just coming? And then we'll go afterwards. And I brought him into the makeup area.

And there was this amazing makeup artist called Gil. And Gil was so fabulous and so amazing and so hilarious. And I was like, hey, Gil, like here's my hot boyfriend. And then a few weeks later it was over. And then Gil was like, hey, Gil, like, here's my hot boyfriend. And then a few weeks later, it was over. And then Gil was like, hey, like, what happened? Still dating that guy? And I was like, no, it's not going to work. He was like, yeah, he's too hot.

And I was like, what? And then he's like, no, no, not like he's too hot for you. It's just like he's too hot. Guys who are hot like that, it's never going to work. Gil is gay. I just want to point that out. Meaning that he knows men and is a man and dates men. And I was kind of stunned and then I just kind of laughed it off. But then it really stuck

with me. Yeah. And it became very clear to me that it's not that hot men are untrustworthy. I just think that women, okay, this is going to sound so bad, but women who date guys who are hotter than them are okay I'll rephrase it I'll rephrase it I'll rephrase it no no because I want to we should talk it out because I think this is complicated this is like one of those weird maybe truths well we'll see yeah we'll Synced is supported by BetterHelp. We really believe in therapy over here at Synced. It's pretty much guiding all of our principles, everything we talk about. I mean, honestly, most of the things we talk about on here are just things our therapists have said that now we are translating out to the world. Honestly, I don't think this show would exist if we didn't have therapy.

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Okay. I think that a lot of women, and you'll notice this. Yeah. A lot of like amazing, beautiful women end up with guys that you're like, excuse me, and they're just not on the same level physically. Obviously, the most superficial way to assess any relationship. It's not to say that that guy isn't so incredible and smart and funny and funnier than her or whatever. Yeah, brings a lot to the table. Yes. And again, I'm objectifying everybody.

Yeah, we're saying that. That's part of what this conversation is. Exactly. Just 10,000 feet bird eye view on a relationship. And I find that, yeah, those very beautiful women are with guys that are not as attractive. And those relationships seem to go very well. And I feel like when women are dating guys who are more attractive, it can set up this power dynamic. Look, Esther Perel says in every relationship, there's a person who's afraid to lose themselves and a person who's afraid to lose the relationship.

And I feel like when the guy's super hot, it usually is he's more afraid to lose himself and she's more afraid to lose relationship. Like I noticed that basically it doesn't set up the relationship to necessarily be easy. That's the way I'll put it. That's my theory. That's your lism. It's bad. It's not bad. Bad. Because I do think there's truth to it. But let's dig into it a little deeper. Because what I think you're saying is men who are objectively, physically attractive by American white standards, let's be honest, they do rule the world.

And they get yeses every step of the way in life. And so I do think they walk around with the power that's real, that society has given them. Honestly, we give beautiful, objectively attractive by white standards. Women, we give beautiful women also a power, but it's different. Women, we give beautiful women also a power, but it's different. It's still not the same as when an attractive man walks into the room. Because also the woman's power based on her appearance will be taken away. The man gets hotter with age.

There's no George Clooney. You can maybe name a few women, but women decrease their value. That will not be something that they can hang their hat on, right? It is fleeting. It isn't the same. Yeah, because we do that as a society, they do have power. And when you have power and you've never not had it, you play with it. I can't really blame the person who's just always gotten what they want and always been a person of influence.

They're going to do stuff. Like, it's really kind of on all of the rest of us to not be placing these people on pedestals all the time. That's true. And also if they are that hot, I think this happens a lot. Now I was like, I'm trying to figure out how to say it. No, I'm trying to figure out how to say it. I'm thinking of one person in particular. He's so hot, a public person. Okay. He is of major influence in society, really smart. And I think this person has trouble in

relationships because he picks people who he thinks physically match him, yet I don't think he then respects them. So then he cheats on them. And I think that happens a lot in some of these extremely attractive men. They pick based on these beauty standards because they have every single person at their fingertips. And so they pick like the prettiest person. And then as relationships progress, pretty goes away. Hot goes away. Those things go away. Then you have your personalities to sit with. And if they don't have that shiny of one, I think the man's like, well, I'm bored of this now.

On to the next. Yes. Especially again, the opposite doesn't apply with women and men, because in our society standards, sexiness like is not lost at the rate that women and actually, I think a lot of older men are more attractive to a lot of women. I think it all just sort of boils down to respect. You said that's the most important thing to you, right? Yes, in a relationship. I think that's the only foundational thing that makes a relationship actually work. Like you can think someone's insanely beautiful or gorgeous or so smart or so funny. There's all these things you can admire in another person, but if you don't respect them, it's not going to work. And they have to respect you too. And my parents have a interesting

relationship. I mean, they're still together after so long. And there have been times in my life where I'm like, why are you together? But I know that they respect each other deeply. I think that's why it ultimately works. After you told me that, I've thought about it a lot and I've never heard anyone say that. What are you looking for in a person? Like, oh, someone who like respects you is such a good way to put it. The Gottman Institute, right? Like these people who study relationships and couples, that's what they do all day. One of the biggest findings is that the number one predictor of divorce is being condescending, judgmental or sarcastic, right? Like a big, big rule that I have in

relationships is never use sarcasm. Just say it directly if you're upset. Don't make a joke about it and sort of be condescending in that way because to your point, that is not respecting your partner. And once you don't, yeah. And I thought about my past relationships. I was like, right. It's when I didn't or they didn't. But I saw it in myself. I was like, if I'd used that as a marker, I would have known earlier. I think it's a good litmus test. But as far as hot men being untrustworthy, I think they are. Yeah. No, I don't. I think they need a really strong character to offset the hotness, but they have a lot of opportunities and leeway to not. Dax says this, I think it's a Chris Rock reference, like a man is only as faithful as his options. And it's like, yeah, I know. But it is true. But that's why I want to

bring in the respect piece, because I do think if a very hot person respects their partner, despite what that person looks like, I think it can work. It might take that hot person a few tries before they find the person they respect that they learn like, oh, that is not giving me what I need. And that doesn't make me feel equal. I want this other thing. They have to kind of implement contrary action a little bit. That's true. We value different things in women and men and broad strokes, but they're valued for,

you know, status and what they provide, money, right? All those things. And women, it's like, is she hot? It sucks. But that's the way that our society is set up. And so I think women are primed. I mean, maybe not. I mean, is he making enough money?

It doesn't mean you respect him. But I think that men aren't as trained to like, do I respect her, right? Or to value certain things. I don't think it's because they're bad people. I just think it's ingrained. Yeah. But I do think it can be undone. I think now with things changing so rapidly, with women owning more homes than men, so many more women in the workforce and climbing. I think this is going to start breaking down. That's a good point. It just might be a while. But that actually wasn't the lism I was thinking. Really? Yeah. Oh my God. No way. We went down. I mean, it's a good one. But I was thinking of your longstanding theory where you feel like in a public relationship, if they break up, the women can't bounce back or something.

Wait, maybe you should say it. I'm sounding like I'm just like the frattest of frat boys. This is real life we live in. It's true. It's true. This is the thing that I circle back to a lot, which is it sucks that this is the way life is, but it is the reality.

And so we have to know the reality before we can start changing the reality. Yeah, we can't be in denial. I think that when a female public figure gets dumped or cheated on or there's a big public breakup and that the guy dates or gets married with another woman also in public quickly and that she has a certain level of

respect and adoration. I think that the woman W, the old W. Although old W could also work. Yeah. And usually it is. Let's be honest, because the woman that they bounce back with also is often this is the premise of so many episodes of Sex and the City. The Pulitzer winning the Bible. Yes. Is that they often will choose a less complicated woman. Yeah. Okay. Now this flies in the face of my respect. Oh, it does. It sure does. Fuck. When I'm scrolling on social media, one of these couples, I'm looking for the evidence that they're not really happy and that they should have stayed with the OW because the OW was where they were going to grow and become a better man and show them their shadow self and take that path because she's pretty and she's easier and they often look good together. And I think that creates even more difficulty for the OW is to then see all these photos and see these narratives of this couple. It's so public, yes. It is. Obviously,

there are so many people who are listening who I'm sure are relating to a version of this in their lives. And with social media, it's almost like we all can experience a version of this. But that being said, I think nothing compares to like the public feeling of like being dragged in the coals. Just Jennifer Aniston for like 15 years, the magazine covers pitting her against Angelina Jolie or like how sad she is and how she doesn't have kids and how perfect of a family they are. I think about that with Selena Gomez. I think about that with Jennifer Aniston. I think about that with so many different women. I feel for them. You really feel? This is one of your mainisms. And for some reason, whenever we talk about this, I really butt up against it for some reason. I think because I don't like the idea that this

man could ruin this strong OW, right? Especially, like, fucking Jennifer Aniston. She's the best. She is the best one. So she should be able to bounce back and have whoever she wants. And I think she can, but you're saying she can't. I mean, or didn't or something. She did.

She did, but then, like, there was that moment at the SAG Awards. Oh, I loved it. I mean, I know this is or something. She did. She did. But then like there was that moment at the SAG Awards. Oh, I loved it. Me too. But like where they were hugging or like touching. And then they held her hand and then like she held it and you can tell she won't go back. I, again, don't know her personally, but I know for a fact that like that to me, that handhold is I still want to, but I won't. And I can't. Liz, I don't think so. I don't. I don't. I think that handhold is I love you. I love you. You're shaking your head. But I think it's we had a beautiful time together and enough time has now

passed where that can live as what it was as pure, not as contaminated by how it ended and then all this other weird stuff in the middle, because that had its own life that's gone. I do think time heals in a lot of ways. And I think that we'll have to have her on the pod. And by the way, like, I love these women. Oh, I know. The reason why I feel this way, again, is probably this weird savior shit because I truly love them and I want the best for them, but I connect with just how painful that must be for them. Yes. I don't think that they don't

recover and they'll never be happy, but I think that that wound, I don't think it ever goes away. I think in the macro way, if you've been, let's say, quote, scorned, I don't like that word actually, but if you have, and then it's blasted, you have to see and be reminded of it. You can't really get that much distance from it because of the world. That's hard. I mean, there is no getting around that. It's like high school. Yes. Where you get dumped and then they're on to the next and you have to see them holding hands down the hall and you haven't moved on and it's so hard. Hollywood is high school. It's like that where everyone knows each other

and then these people go off with these people and you have to see it on crack. Yeah, everyone's magazines and articles and people are speculating about you. Like we are right now. We are right now. Yeah, we're making it so much worse. We are making it worse, but I do think it's an interesting topic of conversation. I don't want that to be.

I think these women, they're definitely way better off not being in those relationships. That I totally agree with. My last point is like, I think that's actually what makes it harder is that for some of these women and maybe all of them, they were like, I don't want to be with you. There's something about the fabrication of the narrative of what comes after you, which again is something that his next relationship. I'm joking. I'm saying I trained him. But I think that there's something that can happen in relationships where, and this happened to me with a super serious ex-boyfriend. We had an amazing relationship, but like things weren't working out around a certain part of his life. And I remember us standing in the kitchen, like one of our last moments together. And I was like, wow, your next girlfriend, it's going to work so well when you do this with the next person. And not out of spite, I even get sad talking about it because

it was like the realization that I have too many wounds and I can't keep going with this. You've learned a lot. You have your own scars, but now you can go and do this better when you do it with the next person. And he did. And actually, I was like very happy for him when I thought it wasn't an issue anymore or that he'd worked through that. I don't know. Do men feel this way? Because I feel like it is more typical that women do because sometimes I think women will feel like the guy won't change until their hair is on fire. I'm sure there are men who are listening who feel the same way, too. I do think that's regardless of gender. Right. We all resist. I think it can feel frustrating. Or if you're the OW and he's with the NW, new woman,

and their relationship seems so because it's all through the frame. But that's what you say, right? You're like, everyone knows Hollywood is bullshit. But if everyone believes that story, even if it's not true, doesn't it become true? No, of course it doesn't. Just because you have cute pictures on social media doesn't mean your life is good. It can look it and people can believe it. That does not make it true. And if you're in the business, which these women are who you speak of, they do know. Right.

They do know that there's this blown out narrative about people that is totally false, whether it's good or bad. That's all wrong normally. So I see what you mean about the change piece, but I guess I wish our best self could sort of take over in those moments. Yes, prefer. And we could say like, this is life, right? You impact another person. They're going to be better off for me. And I'm also going to be better off having learned some stuff too. And we'll move on and also be better as opposed to, well, they just got the best of me. And now they're better for the next gal and make it more about we are better because we

have now made it through this. And I was made better by that relationship too, even though it was painful. And that's the preferred breakup you want. you know yeah obviously it's so hard but we have I think a little more say in it if we want then we'd like to believe yeah I think you can act your way into some thinking a little bit I can't think of a better opportunity to like go deep on your shit. Yeah. Whether you're a public figure or not, right? Like breakups are such important points of change for me and new chapters, even though it was the roughest points. If you're lucky and you work through it and you have the right support. Therapy.

Therapy. Wow. Well, that was fun. We got into some lisms. I don't know that we figured out anything. We both see each other's points. That was fun. I love chit-chatting.

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We are going to go into the second portion of the show where we read some listener questions. Oh, I already like this one. Okay. I haven't read it yet. These are all blind. These are what we call dry reads in the biz. Okay. Ready? Yeah. Should I pressure my partner to propose? Oh, my God. dry reads in the biz. Okay, ready?

Yeah. Should I pressure my partner to propose? Oh my God. I'm going to leave her name out, even though she didn't ask me to, but just in case. Sure. I've been with my boyfriend for a year and a half. I've had plenty of practice runs, but he is my first super serious relationship. We are 36, 37, head over heels in love, committed, planning on buying a house, and have talked for months about getting married. Neither of us has felt this connected

with another person before. He is my forever person and he tells me the same. A few years ago, his stepdad gave him his grandmother's wedding band. And recently, my mom has given me my grandmother's wedding set, gorgeous antique rings, like, oh my God, my dream wedding set. We both talked about how ready we are to get married to each other, but ideally would want to wait to buy a house so we can have a small intimate wedding at our home. The tricky part is we are not financially ready to buy yet. So we have agreed to wait a year or so until we are more ready. Plot twist. My mom's health has drastically spiraled out of control down the drain and we found out on March 10th that she has stage four brain and lung cancer. Oh, I'm so sorry. We don't really know how much

time she has even though she's in treatment. Her health is incredibly rocky with no reassurances on her getting better. It feels super scary and every day I'm anxiety stricken not knowing if she's going to survive until tomorrow. I'm super sentimental when my partner is not. And the idea of not having my mom see me get married brings me to absolute tears. I've told him this and he knows it's something that weighs heavily on my mind. I hate the idea of doing this because I don't want to push him into anything he's not completely ready to do. But should I pressure him to propose sooner so my mom is alive to see me get married or let it happen naturally. Wow. First of all, listener, I'm really sorry. Yeah. That is so hard. I have a friend who's gone through something similar. Her mom is sick as well, and she is trying to conceive. And she put a lot of pressure on herself to conceive quickly so that her mom could meet her child, of course, which is so understandable.

What I saw from that was just so much grief and stress, exponential. Because our bodies don't do that well when we're gunning for anything. Yeah. Yes, when we have a tight grip on anything. And this is similar. It's a little different because there's more control, obviously. Like we don't have that much control over conception. That's the problem.

And you do have some control here. But if he's saying no, my thought is first, you could have a conversation and say, why not now? Let's talk that out. Because for me, it is preferred to do it sooner rather than later because I really want my mom to be there. It sounds like she's sort of had that conversation. But maybe have a sit down and then ask with true curiosity, why wouldn't we? And see what he says.

And then if he says, I'm not ready, you don't want to marry someone who's not ready. Yeah. That's just the truth, which is really shitty to hear. When we bring third parties into our relationships, it's almost always not great. Even if we're bringing in a third party with a good intention, like wanting your mother to experience your wedding, which I totally, totally get. The greatest of intentions. Of course. And it doesn't mean that everything's going to go to crap, but I think that it just adds more challenges. And it seems like you are already dealing with a lot. There should just be a conversation tied to your desire to do it because of your mom, but also just a general conversation about what are the reservations. I think for a lot of guys, it's often financial. And I think I've underappreciated

that. And we just think it's like an emotional thing because I think for women, it is usually, do I want to get my, you know, and not to say there's no financials, but I think for men, there's a thing of like, if they're not financially secure or there's not a sense of that. They want to have their ducks in a row. Yes, that is literally what I hear so many guys. It's such a weird. It's such a dude thing. I want to make ducks in a row. But I think men see this as a responsibility,

which I think is positive. I think it's great. And so if you're just, let's do it. And this is a big stressor for him. And he feels like maybe he can't tell you because this is so important to you for that reason. You don't want to be in a situation where you're speeding things up or putting extra pressure on something that's already filled with a lot of pressures. I also always think, how can we make the pie bigger?

Sometimes when we're like stuck in a decision, it's like either this happens or this other thing happen and there's nothing in between. Yes. Maybe there's a third option or something. Yeah. Like a small celebration, an engagement party. I don't know. Get creative. It can look like so many different things. And maybe that will be more meaningful than a big wedding where you get to talk to your mom for, I don't know, a few minutes. I mean, I guess you talk to her for a few minutes, but more intimate, smaller celebration, ceremony. Of just your love and commitment to one another and maybe not necessarily this marriage, but just so your mom gets to see that you're happy with another person. That's great.

Let's find maybe a third option. Also, when you sit down and if you get to the heart of it and if it is financial or whatever it is, you can help in that moment assuage him of some of these fears. Because who knows what the root of the fear is? Exactly. And it's kind of good to know and maybe help. If it is financial, you could always say, I don't want that to be on you.

I don't want the sole responsibility of finances to be on you. I can take some of this on. Also, the last thing I'll say on it is enjoy your mom. Yeah. Just take the time with her that you have and really give it to her. Spend time with her. That's what she ultimately wants, I'm sure, is just to have you there and have you be with her and not to rush and make this wedding happen. And be so busy with the wedding that you might not even spend time with her.

And I feel this deep need to have babies for my parents. And it's not like they've ever pressured me, but I feel like it would be so beautiful. And I know it would mean a lot to them. And whenever I've shared that, usually with someone who has kids, they're like, do not do that for them. And even your wedding, do it for you and your partner and do it for your life. And that, I think, again, is ultimately what your mom wants more than anything. Well, thanks for writing in. And I'm very sorry to hear that. Okay. This is from Kenzie. It's kind of shitty being the breadwinner.

I got married young, 25, while in law school. And my husband and I started dating in college when we were both really struggling and just young and in love. Since graduating, I make eight times what he makes, which has always been a dream of mine to be independent and self-sufficient. But it's starting to be really hard when I feel like so much of what I'm making is going to shit for him. Selfishly, things like his car repair, elective surgeries, etc. A lot of my friends I graduated with are single and wish they were in relationships, but I feel like they have so much more money than me, even though we have a pretty standard income and all make relatively the same amount. I know neither of you are in

this position, but I think I mostly just need to feel encouraged about the fact that I'm living a dream of mine. And it's a privilege to be able to help out my husband with some of those things he wouldn't otherwise be able to afford, but also recognize that being a woman who has it all kind of shitty sometimes. That's real. That's real life. Because we do have these dreams of being hyper successful and making all this money and all these things. And when it boils down to it, money can make things hard and cause so many resentments. I would suggest couples therapy. Yeah.

Truly. Because you can't resent your partner. And I'm not saying she's resentful. And it's definitely okay to think, man, this kind of sucks sometimes. But I would say if the roles were reversed. I was literally going to use those words. If the roles were reversed, I think your relationship would be completely different. Because money is power. There's all kinds of different power dynamics in relationships.

Money is your go-to one that's so clear because we live in a money-centric society. Women who date men who are making a lot more money than them, there are certain dynamics in that relationship. Maybe she's getting elective surgeries and car repairs and he's paying for it and he's resentful, but she is doing a lot more things to contribute. And that is a more traditional framework that we know how that works and we can fall into

because it follows gender dynamics. And when the genders are reversed, and she didn't mention he's doing more around the house, there's an unequal balance. And how is the rest of your relationship helping balance those things out, I guess? Yeah. And make it feel equal. Equal. Because that's sort of what I'm hearing when I read this. If you read through the lines, I think what she really feels is there's an inequality that is causing her to think, oh, no, I worked this hard and I thought it was going to feel like this. And now it doesn't.

Now it's shitty, which it is. You might not feel that way if there felt like more equity in other areas besides finances. Very different example. But when I was 19, I lived in Denmark and then I brought back, I import a lot of men. I do. It's a business. Do you include them in customs? I brought back, I import a lot of men. I do. It's a business. Do you include them in customs? I don't.

I should. Yeah. No, I leave and then I just make them come back, pay their own fare. But so we stayed together for several years. But he came to Montreal to try and make the relationship work and didn't speak French, like couldn't work, like things you do when you're 19 and you think are a really good idea. So there was a big imbalance. I was a waitress, so I wasn't like rolling in cash, but I definitely had income and he didn't. And I remember feeling a lot of the

things, no elective surgeries, but definitely like feeling like I was the one footing the bill and I'm really ratting him out. Like he was great, but sometimes he'd be like, oh, let's go get dinner. And I was like, great. And then are you going to gonna pay and then at the end yeah i was like oh i'm paying for it and it was your idea like but i feel like again if the genders were reversed like he would have been more amenable men get something out of being more financially rich in relation i was gonna say something really smart uh like men get something out of that. Because I've been in the reverse too, where this guy would pay for everything. You know, we went for a weekend and I was like, oh, I don't want to say I don't like

this thing or I don't really want to. I hate that too. Yes, of course. That should never be in a relationship where someone's paying for everything. So you feel like you have to just like it or go along. See, that's why this is actually complicated because if you do reverse the roles, I'm very sympathetic towards the partner, a male who's financially rich, as you say, and a female who is not and is getting car

repair and also elective surgeries. I am kind of like, well, you married this person, you know about this person, you know the position. And I have had this happen in a friendship relationship of mine where the wife didn't work and he is very successful financially. And if he would say, oh, you spent money on this, and I got wind of it, obviously, she told me, that would infuriate me. You've decided to join forces with this person, and you've decided to make your money their money. I mean, if there's this crazy imbalance, that's different. If she is, let's say, spending 10x the amount he is, then I think could be a conversation just about our finances. But if it's just that they're spending money that's jointly theirs,

I don't like the idea of a woman being controlled. And so it's weird in this case because it's not a woman being controlled. So there's this divorce lawyer on TikTok. I remember like seeing this series where she was like, the profession that makes you more likely to be divorced if you're a woman is a head of household and sort of not working. Those were the most likely to get a divorce. And she said the worst divorces. Because if one person doesn't have money and make money and the other person makes all of the money, that is a recipe for resentment.

of the money, that is a recipe for resentment. And that very dynamic that you're talking about, where she feels controlled and he feels like, well, you're using my money. I think it's hard. Some couples can avoid it, but I guess I have sympathy for whatever the gender of the person is. That's your money. But if you're married, it's a little different than if you're in a relationship and you're dating because dating money, even that is confusing. That's a whole thing. But when you're in a relationship and you're dating because dating money even that is confusing. That's a whole thing. But when you're married, unless you have a conversation ahead of time and you say, look, we're getting married,

but here's how our money's gonna work. We both put 10% in this pot so that we don't get resentful. You can figure that out. I know a lot of couples who do that. They have like a joint account and they have their own accounts. But if you are not gonna do that and you're going to say, this is all a big pot, you kind of have to

stick to this is a big pot and it can be shitty. And I do think you can have a conversation. You can say, hey, I think maybe we lay off on some of these elective surgeries. I think using we and us and our is helpful in all of this so that you limit resentments. And you also remind yourself, we're a we. We have spent a lot of money this month on Kybella. What is that? That's the thing that reduces your double chin. I want it.

Kybella. I might get it. Is it a surgery? Oh, you don't need that. I hate my neck and my jaw and my chin so much that I'm considering it. I think it's an injection and then it like freezes stuff. The only thing I'm nervous about is I have heard that sometimes this weird lump. Oh, God.

Oh, God. No. You are perfect. I want a pair of glasses that gives Monica the ability to see herself in the way that everyone else sees her. Isn't an engineer some sort of scientist listening? You're beautiful. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. But I hate my neck and my chin and my jaw. And I think Kybella might be the answer, but I'm not there yet. But I'm thinking about it. I'm just being honest about the fact that I'm thinking about it because I don't want to show up one day with a much different jawline and act like nothing happened. You could and I would just never ask any questions if that's what you want. I know. But I want to be honest.

If I'm going to change something, I'm going to be honest about it. Yeah. Anyway, he got Kybella and I think she can say, you know, we've spent a lot this month. I think we should pair back or we have a conversation about some of these expenses? I just think he needs to do more work. But the thing is, he's working, it sounds. Other work, not money work. Because there's so much work in a relationship.

There's so many variables and things that you can do to support the other person. In my head, she's making eight times more than he is. He's cooking eight times more than he is. He's cooking eight times more than she is. That's the formula. When men make more money and there's a woman supporting them to do that. If she is in this scenario like that guy, then he needs to figure out what that is in their relationship. And also I'll say like this is annoying for her. I bet this is difficult for him and we have data men who make

less than their wives are more likely to cheat on them he'll compensate in other ways he feels emasculated yes he's not providing but there are so many ways of providing yes there's so many things that he can do pay her back in foot massages and yummy soups that's hot i also don't want him to be like her little bitch boy, you know? Can we say that still? I don't know. Bitch boy? But anyway, I mean, yeah, I don't want that for him because that will be the end of the relationship.

If he's just constantly deferring. Yeah, yeah. And I don't mean deferring. I think it's providing. We have this view of providing like making money and providing is so much more than that. To me, it's like acts of service, right? Like I know you're working late. And so I got us this super yummy meal or I booked us a massage like with your money, but like I did it. But wait, listen, hold on. Let's take it out of this person. I want to paint a scenario. I don't know anything about what this man does,

this listener. Let's take it out of that. I'm painting a new scenario. Yeah. Let's say it's me. I happen to be in a career that I make a lot of money. You are very successful financially. You work a lot and you've been rewarded for that. Thank you. But let's say I married a teacher. That teacher is not not working hard.

That teacher is fucking working so hard. Yeah. And just happens to be an extremely underpaid profession. And I would be making exponentially more. That doesn't mean that that person owes me anything. It just happens to mean that our professions don't make the same amount of money. And it doesn't mean I'm working harder or am better. But would your teacher boyfriend be getting elective surgeries with your money? Do you think he would be like taking that liberty? Well, if he wants Kybella, he should be able to get that. Get hotter. Okay. That I like because women with really rich guys, let's be honest. Yeah, they get Kybella. Yes,

they get a bunch of stuff and they're like, you're rich and I'm going to be hot. And that's how that works. We don't even know. What if the elective surgery is like back surgery or something that just he doesn't need but would make his life better like we're we've made it about cosmetic but elective surgery has that ring connotation for a ringtone elective surgery like we should make that a ringtone good no but i don't think it's fair for us because different professions make vastly different amounts of money and it's not about fairness that's a really good point our assumption is oh this guy's like an artist or whatever artists don't fucking work no as an artist we don't fucking work no one wants to work anymore

no he's well we, a social worker. Again, not that social workers and teachers are better, but they are. No, they are. Like, they work harder than anyone and should be making the most money. Exactly. They're doing such a purposeful job. Right, right. Again, I've taken it out of this context because we don't know about him.

But just in general, we have to look at it like that. Just because we're making more doesn't necessarily mean we should be. And so, you know, if you're in a partnership and you've committed to that partnership and you believe they're contributing, you're right. I think that's ultimately is everyone contributing? Is everyone providing? If the answers are yes, then we kind of have to just be cool with it. And because you are writing to us, it probably means that it's not. Right. I think the longer we wait to talk about things, the worse and more magnified they get. Even like if your roommate's leaving like one dish and you're like, I won't say anything. And then the next day there's

two and you're like, there are two. And the next there's four. Right. And it becomes this huge thing. It's like, I should have just said it at the beginning. Just bring it up. I'm sure he's thinking about it too. Definitely. Also, would you date a teacher? A hundred percent. What about no money? He doesn't have a job. That I have a harder time, but a hundred percent I would marry a teacher. You have a preference for if he made more, less, or same?

No, to me, it's about what is that person doing in their life? What are they doing with their day to day? If they care about what they're doing. A teacher is doing the fucking Lord's work. I mean, I really, really believe that. And great. Would love it. Because of said money, I don't really need anyone to be adding that to my pie.

I have it. But I do need someone who's going to have their own shit going on and be interested in whatever they're doing and thoughtful about what they're doing. Teachers are all those things. And that means you're picking a partner based on important things. And talk about respect. Yes. I respect a fucking teacher.

Especially if they're hot. I love hot professors. Okay, so hot male teachers between the ages of? Minimally my age. Okay. 36-year-old. Five. Sorry, I'm 36 because I'm two more at the same age, but you're getting there.

It's fun. 36 is great. Don't do that. I mean, I love it. I love it for you. I can tell. So 35-year-old teachers who are listening, if your friend is a hot male teacher, slide in there.

I have a friend who's a hot male teacher, but he's married. But he's a hot male teacher. There are many of them. We should have more male teachers for this reason. And this reason. Oh my God. Okay.

Well, I think that might be where we leave it. But we'll be back next week with more questions and more lisms and more, God, fingers crossed, hot teachers.

Send in your cues. Bye. cross hot teachers. Send in your cues. Bye!