Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Synced: The Pins Have Pins

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

In this episode of Synced, Monica and Liz reminisce on how many times they’ve each held a hammer, Liz talks about settling into LA, and they debate the lengths one should go to turn a parasocial relationship into a real one. They discuss listener questions about being a people pleaser and how to find one's personal style. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Vintage. Ugh. Yeah. It looks so cute on you. It's Pink Floyd. And I'm obsessed with those shoes. Those are the shoes, remember, you almost fell in? Remember when we almost synced completely?

We did, because you fell, then I fell. You know, my ankle's still not a hundo. Really? Oh, so I heard you hate this candle. Yeah. Do you mind if I take it? Of course. Oh my God, I love it.

I was like, I love this candle. I was like, Monica hates it. I miss that. My stuff is coming tomorrow, allegedly. A candle would help. Your air mattress has been so comfortable. Good. It is pretty comfortable, right?

It's incredible. Yeah, it's a good one. Of course you have an air mattress that is top tier, featured in Vogue. I wish. $6,000. You know what you could do? It's not. It's very reasonable.

There should be a feature on you of not the high-end stuff that you get, but the little things that you figured out the best high-end way to do it. I do feel like they have Amazon lists. Yes. Can't you do that where you can put out your list? Yeah, you make like a wish list type thing, but it's recommended. I mean, you could probably get a contact at Amazon to set up a proper shop. Influencers have that, right?

They're like, look at my shop. I don't know. I'd have to look. Anyway, well, I'm glad that the air mattress is serving you well. It's so wonderful. You've been on it for a while now. Two weeks. Yeah. How are you adjusting to Los Angeles? I love it because I love you. I love our show. I've been very social. Good. I feel like in New York, I was always too tired and overstimulated. Like at night, I just wanted to like be alone. And I have more energy.

What have you been doing? Going on dates because I'm always doing that. You went on one yesterday. I did. How did it go? It went well. But I was like negative about it to you. Before?

Yeah. I am at a place where like I feel really at peace. And I feel like I would hear people say that and I was like, I wish I could feel that way, but I do. I feel like my life is really full right now, actually. Yeah, I feel excited to be here. And we spend time together and we can just hang out. And how are you?

You had a very exciting day yesterday. I did. We started construction on my house finally. It's a very big day. There's a picture of me with a sledgehammer because I used it. I made a crack in the wall. Oh my God. And it was so exciting to see real people doing real stuff there. Wait, you did an actual crack? Like you took the tool? Yeah, I'll show you a picture. That's cool. Yeah, it's like a rite of passage, I guess. Is that what

people do? I'm not a homeowner. I don't know how it works. Yeah. I mean, I'm doing a huge project. I think that's why. It's essentially like I'm demoing the house, you know. Let me send you a pic. Okay. Just so you have it. Oh my God, you're so happy. I am happy. Wow. Is this the first time you held a hammer? Well, that's a sledgehammer. Oh my gosh. I've obviously held hammers. I have to hang stuff. I have to hang art. I mean, how many times have you held a hammer? In my life.

A regular hammer? Yeah, ten times. Ten times? I don't think I've held a hammer more than six or seven times. Wait, are you not hanging stuff? I don't trust myself to do that. So there was this app called Handy. Oh, sure.

Do you remember Handy? Yeah. And I kept saying to my mom. So there was this app called Handy. Oh, sure. Do you remember Handy? Yeah. And I kept saying to my mom, I was like, I got Handy. And she thought Andy was a man. But it was an app. I have held a hammer upwards of 14,000 times in my life. I held one literally two days ago. For what?

I was hammering this little mirror. Okay. Little mirror. Yeah, a small, tiny mirror. Goes in a tiny spot. And I had to hang it. With a big hammer. Well, that is a sledgehammer.

That is probably the first time I've held a sledgehammer. Because when else would I have held one? Maybe for like a shoot, I'm trying to think. Would I have held something? As a joke? Well, as an actress. As a prop. You know, people really know me as my role as Mary the construction worker.

Okay. Do you know about that? No, I don't. It's like my biggest role. That was a lie. It is? Yeah. Well, it was a joke.

Oh, my God. I'm really gullible in L.A. I feel like this keeps happening. People are more sarcastic. They are? Or like my radar is down because I'm too happy or something. Oh. I'm just taking in everything as face value.

That's really sweet. No, I've never played a construction worker yet. Oh. But. Put it out there. Exactly. Manifest. I will.

Anyway, okay, back to your date. Where was it? At his house. Did he cook dinner? No. Did he just have you over to chill? We watched a film. What film?

We're not going to say who it is. I don't even know who it is. Is it someone? Yeah, it was. I'm trying to watched a film. What film? We're not going to say who it is. I don't even know who it is. Is it someone? Yeah, it was I'm trying to make a joke. It was Jeremy Strong and we were watching the last episode of Succession. Wow. Lucky. Super fun date. I learned a lot. I do think all the time about the people. There are people

who have seen the season finale of Succession. Like there are people walking around amongst us who have seen it. Why? Because like Kara Swisher is doing the podcast. And they gave her a. I have assumed that she has seen it. I highly doubt it. I know for White Lotus, zero people.

Is it like the Oscars? Like they just like don't. Yeah. It's too scary. Especially on a huge show like that. Right. That people would know. Okay.

I mean, the director, the actors know what happened. Well, you know that they, well, I learned this on your show. They're writing it while they perform. Yeah, but they're a little bit ahead. Sure. They know how it ends. Yeah, because how many more episodes are there? One. That's it. Oh, well, see, you know, I'm behind. I'm not in this season. You're not? I haven't started this season. Oh, my gosh. I'm so jealous. I'm actually a couple episodes into last season. Oh, God. Well, it's jealous. A couple episodes into last season. Oh God. Well, it's good. I need to hop back into that because I felt like it was getting repetitive.

Yes. At the beginning of last season. It does. And I kind of fell off of it because of that. Well, it doesn't. It takes a turn at the end. That's really, really exciting. And then the beginning of this season feels like repetitive. The first episode is the worst one, I think. Okay. And then it gets so good. We also never talked about who your crush would be on the show and how different it would be from my crush on the show. Oh, whoa. I definitely had a pin in this from like two episodes ago.

We started – this keeps happening to us when we start having conversations in life. And then I say, no, no, no, we have to talk about this on the podcast. But then you keep talking. So then we end up having the whole convo. But that's okay. I want to do this respectfully because I respect everyone involved. But we had an actor from Succession on Armchair Expert, Nicholas Braun. Everyone already knows that. Tallest man alive. Six foot six? Seven? Seven? That was also a lie.

He's not the tallest man alive. Okay, thank God. Yeah, you believed it. Yeah. I feel unethical about lying to you or making jokes because you just believe it. Well, you should see how far you can take this. If I were you, I'd have fun with it as long as, well, whatever. I don't want to hurt anyone or harm anyone.

Okay, anyway, so we had Nicholas on. Incredibly fun episode. Great guy. So good. And we released it. You texted me and said, oh, my God, Nicholas Braun, he's so hot. And you had mentioned because we had brought up my eggs on the show. And you said, I wish you would give us his sperm, in so many words, for our eggs. And I was, God, this is going to be dicey. And I'm just

saying it honestly, because I don't want him to think anything bad about himself. But I read that text and I said, what are you talking about? Because to me, Nicholas is not a person who, is that how you went on a date with last night? No. I wish, not I wish. Well, that's what we'll get to. I'm not taking it out. Meaning like, no, no. When I say that, it's like, I'm done with my Nicholas Braun obsession, but I was really, I think I've DM'd him. Like, I think we could actually go in and see what stupid thing I wrote. I've, like, tried. You were one of the girls,

one of the New York girls. No, I wasn't. I never made it to that tier, but I definitely wanted to. You should have gone to his bar. That's what people... I did. Oh, my God.

I would go to Ray's. I know all the bartenders. It was only a matter of time, and it didn't happen. I think once he became very, very popular, I was like, now he knows. You think maybe it went to his head or something? That was my perception based on absolutely nothing. Okay. Based on no information. Based on no information in my own imaginary relationship. Let's put a pin in that because that's going to

circle back to something we also want to talk about today. Okay. So you said he's so hot. I want him to spray our eggs. I'm in love with him. And I said, no, you're not. What are you talking about? He's not your type. Oh, my God. Remember I said that? And you were like, no, he totally is my type. That's my type.

One million, yeah. But Liz. What? That's not true. Everyone you date is very classically hot. Nicholas Braun? Okay. I feel like I'm in a different universe.

The sky is purple. Like, I feel like this is what you're saying to me right now. Nicholas Braun is so hot. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Wait, Rob, you don't think he's hot? Not like his conventionally attractive male. Exactly.

He is an attractive person. And he has, like, a good vibe and he's flirty and all of those things. But if we're having like, I hate this. He's like a dorky, nerdy guy. Exactly. He's not the athlete. He's not the quarterback. And you normally date the quarterback.

I dated one. I dated one athlete. I really only dated one. No, no, no. I'm using athlete as a metaphor, right? Like, you date the hot jock in high school, and Nicholas Braun is not that. He's the funny theater guy. But you date the hot jock. That's who you seek. Okay.

And even a more recent sitch, I can't wait to find out who you went on a date with yesterday. But also also pretty. Let's use that word. Okay. Is that a bad word to use? I'm sorry if I canceled this, but when we did Race to 35, we weren't allowed to be canceled because we were on hormones. Right. And that translates to this show, too.

It does. So we're not allowed to be canceled. We can't. All to say, Nicholas is extremely attractive, and I am not attracted to the quarterback. That is not who. Oh, my God. Matt Damon? Of course.

No. Matt and Ben are. The job? Yes, not Matt. Ben is. Ben is. No, Matt's like the wide receiver, and Ben's the quarterback. Of course they are.

They're both on the football team. No, but he's so nice. He's nice. That's like Saracen and I never remember his name. Taylor Kitsch. I've never seen this show. This is a ding, ding, ding. Because Nicholas Braun did this.

Tim Riggins. Fuck, you haven't seen it. I remember him bringing it up, but I didn't know what it was. Okay. Well, this is the classic battle. Saracen, he is very cute. Nice guy versus Tim Riggins. Sort of bad boy, hot, a little bit greasy haired, a little tortured. I don't think you necessarily go for tortured.

I have, but no. Well, they end up being tortured, but that's not their appeal. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You realize they're tortured, but they're not leading. They're not like brooding. Right. But they're torture, but it's not, they're not leading. They're not like brooding. Right. But they're very pretty.

I don't think you realize how many people I go on dates with. Like the spectrum, that's been a joke with my friends. I will have like giant crushes on people. And my friend's like this five foot four, curly haired professor of history. And go from that to, yeah, like an athlete. So I do have a range. And tall, goofy, lanky. So I do have a range. Okay. And tall, goofy, lanky is like a core type of mine. That was like my first big relationship in my 20s.

I guess I'm just thinking of the last three relationships I know of with you. Also, let's tell another story that's really fun. One of them was not pretty. The egg freezing person. Yeah, I think so. A little on that greasier end, like I'm saying. I feel like we can't release this episode. But I do want to bring up another thing that you're not going to like. Oh, great. This should be a segment every week. No, it just reminded me. It reminded me because very pretty people.

Yeah. So there's a very pretty person in the zeitgeist who you're attracted to. You don't know him, though. Okay. You know who I'm talking about. And he's like your number one. Like, Matt's my number one. He's not my number one, but he's not.

My number one is taken, and it's okay. Ryan Gosling is my number one. Oh, yeah, that's right. But unavailable and very happy for him. Yeah, when we're talking about our number one celebrity crushes, we don't have to, like, qualify whether they're taken or not because this, like, ruins the the fantasy and it is a fantasy. It is.

Yes. Okay. So not your number one. And you met this person. I did. I did. And can you tell us what happened? Because I, to me, this story, it's so hilarious and it's so illuminating and it's a cautionary tale and it's very human.

I think this story is funny. Okay. It's where we differ. When I go to something or I'm somewhere and I see someone that I think is amazing, I tend to go up to them or like find a way to connect with them. And that stems from the time that I saw Chris Martin and I didn't talk to him. That stuck with me for years because we had intense eye contact. Oh, where were you? We were at a smoothie place in Santa Monica. Oh. This was pre-Dakota. So again, I'm very aware of not stepping on anyone's toes in my fantasies. I was obsessed with Coldplay.

Same. Really love. And I still like, I think they're great. And I think he's great. You know, he's always very involved and trade not aid on his hand. I was like, my God, he's so like dreamy. So I walk into the smoothie place and I just do a scan. What's trade not aid?

Very good question. just do a scan. What's trade, not aid? Very good question. It's that overall, the approach when it comes to helping developing countries from Western nations is to be like, here's a bunch of money, we'll help you. Oh, right. White savior. White savior. And it's also not recognizing the fact that it's our trade deals that are disadvantaging these countries. Instead of giving them aid, change the trade deal so that they're not at a different position. Okay, that's great. Yeah, I just thought he was very invested and involved, and I thought we'd be perfect for each other. Sure. And so I walked into this movie place.

We lock eyes, like in the movies. There's no one else, and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, my God, this person that I think is so amazing. And then he locks eyes with me. It was a real moment. Yeah. And then I got very flustered and nervous and I turned around. Did you spit? I spit? In his face? What? Spit?

I don't know, like drool on accident or spit. Oh, probably. I had no control of my bodily functions at that point. I probably did. And then I got my smoothie and then I stepped out and I was outside and he was inside. And there was still like eye contact he wanted to talk to you yes but he was with an entire group of people oh a posse and then yeah he walked out and then there was that sense of when a hot guy walks out of a coffee shop but it's Chris Martin and I didn't say anything and then yeah for several years was like that was my in and I didn't take it. So anytime that the universe presents an opportunity, now I just take it.

I'm like, this is it. Oh, you think it's like redemption for the last time? I think the universe is offering you an opportunity. And are you going to take it? Okay. Like, what are you going to do? That's a great spin on it. Maybe.

One life. I prefer to regret. And in this situation I'm going to talk about, I'm happier that I did it and it didn't work out super well than if I hadn't done anything. Okay. I have no hashtag no regrets. I think it's better to just do it instead of living with what could have happened. We do differ here. Okay.

Oh, you do. You prefer not to know. Depending on the situation. But let's hear it so we can uncover it. So I have this crush on this person who's very famous. But there's like a few degrees of separation, all right? He works in a certain industry where I have friends who are friends with him. And so I did try through those circles to get a date with this person.

Oh, you did? I did. I inquired. I was like, oh, like I feel like we'd be a good fit. And so I'm in L.A. I'm probably seeing you and doing this. And then I'm fully sweatpants, slippers. But you look great in sweatpants. Thank you. Yep. But, you know, there are days where you travel and you take care of yourself. And there are days where you really are like pajama mode. Yeah, we should put a pin in travel outfits.

Really? We need to. I feel like you're really good at it. Rob, will you write down all the pins? We got so many pins. Is that our first pin? I feel like the pins have pins now. They do. Yeah, so I'm in the lowest version of Traveling Cute. I see him in this public place, and I'm like, perfect, this is my moment. Thank you, universe. This is meant to be, and we're meant to be together.

I'm being handed this opportunity. And so I somehow get a hold of his number through a series of events. And I decide to text him and to say, hey, just saw you in a public place. How are you? You were acting as if you had already met him. And that he'd already given me my number and forgot that he'd given me my number. Correct. And that we know each other.

Yeah. And so I wait a few minutes. There's no response. And so then I start getting nervous because we're in a transient public place. No public place, really, unless this is where he lives. So I start getting nervous. I'm like, I'm going to have to make a move. And I go, this has been better because then I'll go up to him and totally pretend like we've already met. And now the text is just more evidence to my story. Oh, okay. Right? If he looks down, he's like, oh, yeah, did you just text me?

I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I basically walk over. And I, by the way, I just want to say I am nervous. I'm not a sociopath. Also, I've never done this. This is next level. Next level. I'm really not good at lying and I'm not a good actor.

But this is what I'm going to need to do in order to make this happen. And so I march on over. I go up to him and interrupt his conversation with his friend. He looks up and I can already tell he's like, she's a fan. He classified you. Yes. He's not like looking up at me and looking forward to this interaction. Falling in love with you. Yes. He's not yet falling in love with me. So I'm definitely already, oh, this is not great. Okay. And so I say his first name, we'll call him Peter. Peter. I say, Peter. And I'm like, it's Liz. Oh my God. I don't think I knew this part. Yeah. I'm like, it's Liz. Remember? You said remember. Of course. Oh, of course. No, no. I feel itchy. I say we've met before. I'm really close friends with, and then insert the name of people I'm really close friends with somebody.

And then insert the name of people that I am close friends with who know him. And he's like, oh, was it at, you know? Oh my God, he asked? Yeah, he was truly like, I've met you. I've named specific people that we have in common. And again, there's an award show where we would have met given these people. And he says, oh, at one of the parties. And I was like, yeah, I think so.

I wasn't crazy, like specific and be like, yeah, it was this date this year. I made like a joke about at this party. I wasn't wearing Ugg boots. And so we laughed. And then I was like, what are you doing in L.A.? And he's like, oh, my friend is doing this project. Have you seen it? And I was like, no.

Like it was one of those bad conversations where like I have nothing to latch on to. I haven't seen the thing. I am nervous and I'm starstruck and it's coming off as I'm being nice and polite. I'm not really being like flirtatious or comfortable. And then he asked me, what am I doing? And then like asked me about my job, like what's going on. And we have this like full conversation. It lasts maybe like five, six, seven minutes. That's long. At that point, I want to give him an out. So I'm like, anyway, really nice seeing you. Best of luck.

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which is why they are far better than us and in such an incredible service. So, you know, whether you're dealing with decisions around your career or around relationships or anything else, therapy really helps you stay connected to what you really want while you're navigating all of these challenges in life. And you can move forward in your life with confidence and being excited about your life instead of afraid of it. Exactly. And I think me and you, I mean, I would say 90% of our conversations start with, well, my therapist said, my therapist said.

And it's really helpful. I notice it when I even skip one week of therapy, truly. It really makes a huge difference. And this is so nice because it's entirely online. It's convenient. It's flexible. It's suited to your schedule. You can find a new therapist if the one you have doesn't work for you.

Like, it really is so great. So let therapy be your map with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash synced today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash synced. Thank you for sharing that. Okay. Because I do think it's human. You texted me.

I did. In the middle of this. You said, oh, my God, Peter's here. And I said, oh, cool. I knew that that's exciting for you. Yeah. And you said, should I talk to him? And I said, well, what would you say?

And then a lot of time passed. And then you told me I got his number. And I am going to text him and pretend like we've already met. And my jaw dropped to the floor. Mine too. I immediately said no, all caps. Yeah. But you had already done it.

Yeah. I guess for me, and this is a difference. This is such a big difference between me and you. I'm looking at 400 steps into the future. Okay, so if you do this, then what? I think I even said, so what are you going do? And he says, who is this? And you said, I'm going to wing it, which is what you did. Everything was winging. Yeah. I couldn't wrap my head around what that scenario would be where he would be asking real legit questions and you'd be

in this position to have to sort of lie. You know, that for me is so anxiety provoking. That's why I don't approach for so many reasons. We're just on such opposite ends of the spectrum where I'll find the teeniest reason to not. Okay. You know, I'll find any reason to not do it. That's also stupid. That's unnecessary. I could just go up to someone and talk.

But I'm like looking for the reason to not. And you are looking for the, yes. Yeah. You're like searching for the reason to do it. And it's so interesting. I will say that I would have never done this to an actual stranger. We do have friends in common and I have been in those circles. I mean, it definitely was not true that I met him. Yeah. But it didn't feel like a stretch. And I think even 400 steps down the line, I would obviously end up telling him. But I don't think that it would be completely crazy given the circumstances. I mean, that's what I was going to ask you. What would happen if he fell in love with you in that moment? Yeah. Very possible.

What would happen if he fell in love with you in that moment? Yeah. Very possible. Sure. And you were months in and someone comes up and said, how'd you guys meet? And he said, actually, well, we met at this party. And you're sitting there like, oh, no, I would tell him way before. I would never let it go that far.

No. And then though, do you feel like, is it weird to have started a relationship on this? I mean, life feels strong, but what if it was reversed and it was you and you found this out? I guess, would you be fine with it? Maybe depending on the person. Yeah, I think that there's something sweet about it,

that the person is so interested and invested and thinks you're so great that they like went to great lengths. When someone finds an intricate way into my life and like puts a lot of effort into it, I like that. Okay. Do you? No. Okay. Not at all. What? To me, that's creepy. If they know a lot about me. But they do. People do know a lot. They do. Yeah. And that's why this gets in a tricky like public person realm, right? Where he, Peter, is used to people being infatuated with him. And I know for you, you're like, well, no, but it's different. And it is. You do have mutual mutual friends you do have a different

kind of respect for him you know stuff about him you know about trade not aid and that is different yeah but I think it gets all classified as one thing if you're a public especially his level for sure and people know stuff about you and are very excited about you. It can be like because you're you. For sure. It's tricky. So if I could redo it, I would have never done the number thing. And I didn't like that part afterwards. I deleted it and I was like, I don't want to have this information about it.

But now looking back, I'm like, that wasn't necessary because I got advised and I took the advice. If I were to do it differently, I would go up and be like, we have all these friends in common. Again, it's true. And I think that would have even kind of been enough. Of course. And I would do it differently.

That sets you up to also have a more positive exchange. And again, I just want to make it clear, like I don't like go up to famous people. Like I don't know. It's when I really admire their work. And I ended up telling him that in our conversation. This was like a year back. Peter had just said something really meaningful about a topic related to mental health that really had touched me. And I told him, I was like, that was really meaningful. Thank you. That's rooted in why I want to connect with that person.

And then to me, that's the win-win of then I've said it and I've shared that with them. And it's a positive experience. Yeah. I mean, I think for me, there's also a stubbornness that happens where I don't even want to give that person power. To me, going to those lengths, what you did, all the parts. I read that and I think, Liz, you don't need to do that. You have enough to offer that you don't have to do this. Sure. Okay, that's a very valid point. I think that is more for me. It's like all of a sudden he has all the leverage, all the power, you are pining for him. Nothing feels equal about it in any way, shape, or form. And of course,

it's not going to when it's a person you've been admiring. Yeah. But that part gets so tricky. And I think I'm stubborn about giving anyone else that power. I'm also allergic to people giving it to me. Oh, okay. I can feel it. I can feel when they have put me somewhere else. How can you tell? I don't know if I can label it necessarily. There's someone I know who like has me on a pedestal.

I run into this person every now and then. And it's so obvious in every interaction. And it's very sweet and kind. But I am never going to be attracted to that. Which is a problem probably maybe. Or a halfway problem. Why aren't you attracted to that? To someone thinking you're amazing.

But it's not about thinking I'm amazing. It's not that. It's about thinking my world is amazing. But it's not about thinking I'm amazing. It's not that. It's about thinking my world is amazing. My life is amazing. Me, but it's not just like I talked to someone for 10 minutes and they were like, you're really cool. That I'm fine with. Someone talking to me, meeting me, and then developing a positive opinion about me. But that's what you do. That's your show. You talk. Not to them. Yes, that's your job. No, not to this stranger. Strangers are interested in listening to you talk. And I'm not equivocating a 10 minute conversation one-on-one with a person with a conversation you're having on a podcast that they're listening to. But what is the

difference with them being like, wow, she's so smart and so funny and amazing? Because that's a parasocial relationship, and the other one is a real relationship. The other one is actually connecting based on whatever mutual thing we are talking about organically, not just hearing what I have to say about who knows what.

That's not real. Their relationship with me is not real, what they imagine me to be. But then if they're meeting you in person and it's becoming real, but it's based on having such a fondness for you and the conversations you're having behind a mic, why is that not attractive? Well, maybe there's a sense of I'll never, I don't know. What was that sense? You can't live up to? I was going to say that, but I don't think that's right.

But I'll say it, I guess. Maybe I can't be the person they think I am because I'm just a real person. That's like a therapy version of it, but I think that's not it. I think I just don't find it attractive when it's based on something not present or not connected to them. It's like they like me based on something not connected to them. How do you know, though? Well, there's a stranger.

I have no connection to them. They have a connection to me. Until, yes, if we meet. I'm not saying this is a blanket statement, but that's a big hurdle for me. It is. I see that. Yeah. But I guess what I'm trying to disentangle is why someone admiring you is unattractive to you.

Isn't that the exact type of person you want to date? Someone who admires and respects and loves listening to you talk and thinks you're amazing? I don't want them to like listening to me talk, not to them, though. Maybe just because I have lived so many fantasy lives okay that you think you're projecting that onto them that maybe that's not what they're doing maybe but I think it's a really slippery slope I think your idea of Peter is a fantasy 100% and we all do this I don't think you can help it when you are attracted to this person who you've never met, but you feel like you're connected. Sure.

You're not connected because you've never actually made a connection. You just like the person. You like what they're representing, what they're presenting. Okay, can I push back? Of course. And this has happened to me with friendships. Going up to people that I admire and love, their their work and telling them has resulted in romantic relationships and so many friendships. Yeah.

Like Rupi. Of course. I read her books. And again, I don't know if that's a parasocial relationship, but like followed her on Instagram. She inspired me and I admired her from afar. And then we became friends. And I don't even view that I had a relationship with her before. We became friends. And it was even better than I, I guess, imagined it in my head

if I spent any time doing that. But I don't think that people are spending maybe that much time doing that. Maybe they are, but maybe they're not. And I think it's like a starting point that establishes a lot of common things that you'll end up being able to share and talk about. That was me and you. I loved you from afar and thought you were so amazing. And then I met you in person. So same, right? For you, I knew of you and your work and it was like, oh my God, Liz is so smart and cool. But when I'm with you, I'm not thinking about Liz, who's a writer and smart and on MSNB. You know, we have a relationship now. We've had a million awesome people on this show, so many, who I think are great.

I'm not seeking out relationships with every single one of them, even if I admire them. It has to be something else where I'm like, oh, we in person have some sort of connection. For sure. That has actually nothing to do with all the things I admire. Okay. So I think that's it on the dates and stuff or like with a person who maybe has me on a pedestal. We haven't had that. There's no mutual spark.

So the fact that you're doing that is not about us. It's about me. It's about my life. It's about maybe a proximity to my life. I don't know. I mean, that's an unfortunate thing to have to think about, but I think it's real. But does that happen to you a lot? That's the thing I'm wondering where that's coming from, because I know literally so many people who love you for you and listen to this. And I guess because maybe some people have put your life on a pedestal or again, your connections or what they imagine your life to be on that pedestal instead of valuing you and loving you for who you are and what you're doing and the work that you do. I think that's a majority of people. And then to have those

goggles on anytime anyone expresses that kind of admiration or respect. That's what you're going to see. That is true. I mean, in talking about it, I'm definitely wrong. I mean, I do think it's not a great way to go about relationships. When it's friendships, though, I am much less of it. I still I need a friendship to be based on something real, but I'm not as perturbed by it if someone wants to be my friend because they know of me or something. But if they want to be in a relationship, there's something about it that like, yeah, I don't know. To me, they feel different, but to you, not really. No. I think you also find out in person how that feels. I've had romantic interactions with people who I can

tell like, oh, you like that I'm like shiny. And then there's other people that are like really interested in what I'm passionate about and what I care about and the essence of who I am and the essence of my work as opposed to the shiny aspects of it yeah and I think that's just a discernment to do but to start off that any person who expresses yeah you're right you have no idea how many people text me or want you to come to stuff galas galas Galas. Yeah, we need a gala invite. Well, Monica really more than me because I don't have a dress yet. I have three dresses that I need to wear to galas. And so I'm putting out a reverse invitation. I'm putting out an invitation for an invitation to three galas. Yes. Plus ones. I would like to go. Obviously. Plus ones. Plus ones. But

also one of the galas that you're going to go to is a person that is very cool and was like, I love Monica. Oh, my gosh. And then I was like, yeah, I will introduce you. Like, people love you. I hope we can go to that gala. I hope so, too. It seems like a really fun one. I think it's going to be top notch.

Peter might be there. Peter might be there. And I will pretend like I was not the person in the public place. Wait. Okay, Liz. One more question about that. Like, logistically. Because what if you guys do at the gala talk and really connect?

And he's like, hey, can I get your number? Oh, that's a good question. I don't foresee that happening. But I think I would kind of play what I do. This is why I don't like, because every time you lie, it's a problem. I know. It's crazy. It has 17 other lies attached. Exactly. The lies just grow and grow. I think I would, look, truly off the cuff, I would be like, I think we have each other's numbers. I think I already have your numbers saved from when we, you know, yeah, when I saw you, I texted you, but I figured you hadn't saved my number. That's pretty good. Really? Okay, great. And then if we go on a date and then he

likes me and I like him, because that's also important. A hundred percent. I want that to actually be reversed. You like him and he likes you. Exactly's a whole episode. I know. I feel like for women. I think some men do that too. But I don't know if it's like a factory setting for women that you have to like unlearn. But then once we've established that this is maybe something we want to pursue, I would come clean within like the first few dates. It's not something I could harbor. And again, I'd be like, I liked you so much that I did this.

And he'd probably laugh. It probably would be fine. I'm sure it would that I did this. And he'd probably laugh. It probably would be fine. I'm sure it would be fine. Yes. It's just really funny. Because then he likes me and there's other information as opposed to just the information of like, I stumbled across. Yeah. Well, we have pins.

We have pins, but we're going to have to save them for next week because we have to get into a couple questions that people have written in. Let's see if any of them are ding, ding, dings. Okay, this is from Casey. Okay. How to stop being a people pleaser but still be me? All my life, I've been the quote, go-to person for advice, a laugh, a cry, a friend, a drink, a funeral. Oh my gosh. Your favorite thing. A mediator, etc. And I love it. I love that people need me or know they can come to me and i will be there i pride myself on those traits as a mother daughter sister wife professional and friend chalk it up to the pandemic career change or getting older i have realized that while these traits are great for everyone around me i often make choices based on the good of those involved

and not what is good for me i've started to look into codependency and people pleasing traits and have self-identified i may fit these descriptions. I would love to hear if you have experienced this realization or done any work on this personally. How do I stop being a people-pleaser but still hold on to all the great traits that come along with those tendencies? It's a great question. It is. And we're both codependent. Yeah.

In different ways, I think, maybe. How do you think we do it in different ways? I actually don't think I'm a people pleaser generally. Generally. It's not that every person I come across, I need them to, I mean, I do want them to like me a lot. But it's mainly for people in my close proximity, in my life, that I am very codependent. And then I felt that I was starting to go there with you. We talked about this, obviously. But a while ago, there was a situation in which nothing really,

you just weren't texting back, which wasn't that common for us at the time. And you weren't doing anything wrong. You just were not responding. And I spiraled out. I decided you were dead. And I spent like the whole day trying to get a hold of you, asking mutual friends, have you seen her? When's the last time you talked to her? DM'd your sister? You know, emailed. It got to my therapist. Somehow. Finally, yes. That was the last straw. Because I did convince one of our mutual friends. She also got nervous based on my nerves, probably. And I sent Emma over to your apartment, scared her, you know, just scared everybody. And then finally, our mutual friend who also sees your therapist was like, should I reach out to blank?

And I said, well, and she was like, I don't know. Is that crossing the line? I said, I kind of think it is, but I don't know. And so we both came to the conclusion, if we hadn't heard from you at a certain time, that we would do that. And we hadn't. And so she sent an email, and then you responded pretty quickly. It was in that moment.

I can feel it when it's happening to me. It happens. I feel it in my being. Phys was in that moment. I can feel it when it's happening to me. It happens. I feel it in my being. Physiologically. Yes. That my well-being is so hyper-connected to another person's and you can't live like that. So I had to really take a step back and be like, I can't do that. And she's a grown-up. I texted Dax and I was like, Liz isn't responding. And I haven't heard from her and blah. He took a long time to respond also. And he was like, I'm sorry you're worried.

I bet she's okay. Basically, like kind of in a nice way, like don't do this. And of course I was like, I hate that response. And I texted Jess and he was like, oh no that response. And I texted Jess. And he was like, oh, no, like he gave me the exact reaction I needed to hear in the moment, like validation. Anyway, it's very easy to do when you care about people to tie your happiness to their happiness, mood. Exactly. And I was also very codependent on you. Yeah. And mine looks like latching on. I mean, you always, I guess, text back.

But I was very aware of your moods. Well, I have many. Well, we all have many, right? I think codependence is like kind of a controversial take, but it helped me. Codependency is, I think, kind of the most narcissistic of the things. And it's not because you're a bad person and you're selfish in all the ways that we tend to think about narcissism. It's that you're so

overwhelmed by what's going on internally for you and you internalize everything around you the way that a child doesn't. That's why often people have codependency issues. It started in childhood. Yes. As a child, there was dysregulation around you. And as a child, your brain cannot comprehend, like, my mom loves me, but she also has a drinking problem. Yes. Or my mom loves me, but she has to go to work and do three jobs, and she's never around. And my behavior will affect how happy they are.

And when you're a kid, you are connected. Totally. Like, there is no boundary setting when you're a kid. You can connected. Like there is no boundary setting when you're a kid. You can't. No. So it is tied. It is. And then you learn how to adjust yourself so that they can be okay. So that you can be okay. Yeah. And it's not even just that boundaries don't exist. At a certain level of age, your parent is not a separate person from you. That's what I mean. They're one being. Yes. You are totally actually dependent for your livelihood and survival on them. I feel like when I'm in a codependent spiral, it's that.

It's literally like there is no separation and what's happening to them is happening to me. Yeah. And unless they're okay, I'm not okay. It gets to the point where, yeah, you'll do things that you, you know, afterwards you're like, that's crazy. But at the time, it's so overwhelming. Yeah. a lot of people struggle with it i know and it's very normalized in our society i think particularly with intimate relationship in families it's what you see in movies name a romantic comedy my gosh

exactly like toxic i know codependency is obviously across the board and people pleasing is too but i do think people pleasing i guess, leans more female heavy because we are taught that in order to be liked, you have to be nice and you have to be there for people and that's your job to nurture. And it's really embedded in us. And I think to her question about how do I stop? I don't want her to think it's a bad thing. It's a beautiful thing to care about people and to want to nurture them and be there and show up. But it really will take an actual inventory each time something's asked of you. You have to like sit with it and not just act immediately and think, what is this costing me versus? Sometimes it's not costing you anything. Great.

Go. Be there. Do whatever. It's when you feel completely depleted because you've given everything away. It's not sustainable. I think that's a really good tip. Part of codependency is just saying yes right away. Yeah, sure.

Where you don't even pause. Yes. And so that can look like literally taking a pause or taking a breath or even saying for a while when people ask you for stuff let me think about that and i'll let you know exactly even just that and then it gives you a buffer to actually sit with it and not just do things kind of reflexively and i think the other thing is to like examine the shoulds and the have tos pay Pay more attention to when you say, I have to do this. Do you really have to do this?

I'd be like, oh, I have to do this. And then it was just my therapist being like, well, what if you don't do that? Yeah. Let's just go through the motion of this thing you absolutely think you absolutely have to do and you cannot, you know, and then get to the point where like, oh, I guess I could not do it. And it doesn't mean you don't do it. It just means that you're giving yourself the option to not do it. Yes. And that, again, is so basic. And I guess for some people, it's just a normal way that their brain works. Yeah.

But I found that super useful in terms of relearning. I've just also sort of adopted just being so honest. Yeah. The other day, I was supposed to have dinner with two of my very best friends at their house. It was scheduled for last week, and I had to cancel because of a real reason. And then we rescheduled it for Tuesday. And on Tuesday morning, I just thought, I can't. I can't go do this today. I need a night where I am just sitting in my bed and recharging. I need that right now. And I did feel really bad because I had already canceled once. Of course. And they're very important people to me.

And they were cooking. There was a whole component that made it really tough to do. But I just straight up said, I am so sorry to cancel last minute again. But for my sanity, I need to stay in tonight. And that's it. And guess what? Of course, they were like, yes. Of course, if they love you. No one is like, I'd rather you come at gunpoint. Exactly. That you're holding so that we have this dinner. Not that specifically, but this behavior can lead to a lot of resentment. So if you have resentment in your life, that's like a very clear sign.

You're not saying the truth or you're not obeying your own truth. Yes. And I think that the way you put it to me, it was also a very big epiphany where I was like, I'm just going to tell the truth about how I feel, about when I want a conversation to end, about what I think about what someone said. There's so much that you end up withholding and you're like, why am I withholding this? Based on an idea that this will make the person upset because I've decided there's so much of it that you're playing out in your head and so much of it is internal. You're thinking about yourself

so much. It's because it's a threat, right? If someone is mad at you. Like I saw this TikTok, it was like this guy making his friend sign a contract that they're not mad at him. And I was like, oh, that's me. That's like, I always think people are mad at me. And yeah, even if they're mad at you, okay. It's okay, actually. Yes. Because if it's a relationship you care about, even if they're mad at you, they'll not be mad at you at some point or they'll talk to you about it. They'll talk to you. That's actually, so our mutual friend Kate, we were at dinner this week and she was like, the only time where I'm dysregulated and I have all these codependency things and like these weird sort of toxic behaviors is when I'm around people who aren't communicating

their emotions directly. Yes. And then I'm like a crazy person. And so that's a big part of it too, right? Do you want to keep surrounding yourself with people who are doing that? Because yeah, it takes a lot of work to be around people who aren't communicating things directly. Totally.

And one last thing I will say on this is I think that we can flay, if you're a people pleaser, if you show up, like that people will like you. And I don't think that's true. I think what it does is reiterate that behavior. It'll reiterate, oh, she'll always be here. Yes. Or she'll always say yes. It's not, oh, I like her so much. Yeah. No, it's that now they know what they can get from you. Yeah. And they will push it. Oh, they'll keep pushing it. Yeah. Like you've taught them that you will be this person to them. So if you want it to change, that's on you a little bit.

Yeah, it's hard. Okay, well, that was good. That was good. That was great. Great question. Yeah, great question. Okay, here's a quickie because then we got to wrap it up. This is from Carly.

How did you both find your sense of style? Oh, my gosh. Carly. Hi, Monica and Liz. Both of you dress so well, and I feel like you express yourself so wonderfully through your outfits. I would love to make my wardrobe more stylish and expressive, but I feel like I gravitate toward the same t-shirt and jeans combos. How did you find your sense of style and feel confident

in it? Oh my God, I love this cue. Yes. You're the style queen. You should start. You have a great style, and it's very specific. And I think both of our styles are specific. That's true. And different. Yes. Yes. I learned a hack. I mean, if we're just going practical. Sure.

Yeah. I learned two hacks recently. One from Nicole Chavez, who is a stylist to the stars, Kristen, and many other people, and is a friend. Anyway, Nicole's doing a thing where if she's styling a person, she has a client, they're basically coming up with a kind of style icon, like a person or a phrase or something that they want to be or they want their style to mimic. And so when they're at a store and they have all these options and they hold up a sweatshirt, you know, you'd say to yourself, is this Tina Turner?

Sure. R.I.P. Leah. Sad. Really sad. Shouldn't have said that. Yeah, that was. Specific.

I mean, her style will live on. That's what's amazing. Exactly. And she's an incredible style icon. So, okay, I'll change it to, is this sweatshirt colorful, sophisticated? And then that can help you narrow everything down when you're at a store. Does it fit into what you're trying to do? Smart. Or another person has said you give your style three words, casual, put together, that's a hyphen, and tailored. Ooh. So that you have an idea.

Also, mood boards are super fun. They're super fun if you create a mood board. I think, honestly, it's just about putting some time in to understanding what you like and what feels exciting to you. Yeah. What do you think? I love that. It's so funny because I'm sitting here and I'm like,

what is my advice? What's yours? I broke a lot of rules, and I didn't know I was breaking the rules. Yeah. And I, by the way, there's a few things. I recommend actually not wearing too many things. Oh, you like more minimal? Not even minimal, but having a set few pieces that are your go-tos or staples that you can even spend a little bit more on. I think a leather jacket is a perfect example. Every time I'm like, oh, it's so expensive. Like, do I really need to buy like a, no, the cost per wear. Yes. Right? Price per wear. Price per wear. PPW. PPW. Beige pumps for me. Oh, yeah. So expensive. I get more out of that than a $20 pair of jeans because I wear them and they elevate any kind of outfit, right? So I think that having those few staples is really a primary sort of base.

And that makes it also easy because it's getting those few elements. And then? I always, when I get up in the morning and I put on clothes, not every day, but I feel like it needs to reflect my mood. Or inform your mood. Yes, it can transform your mood. I'm not good at makeup and I feel like that's how some women approach makeup. They're feeling shitty and they'll just do an amazing, can I? Yeah. And then they'll feel different. I feel like that's definitely what I do with clothes. Sometimes I'll be like, oh,

is this too weird? And then if I say that, that means I have to buy it. Whenever something feels like something not a lot of other people would wear, I get it. I love that. Also, I don't think clothes should have like pejoratives necessarily. No. Because even looking at it and say, is this too weird? To me, weird is not even a negative, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Out there. And I'll say to add to your point, when I was at Vox, I had my first opportunity to have a stylist, Pam Shepard. Shout out. Shout out. The best. And one thing that I remember, because I came in, I was like, I want to be comfortable and I want to be sporty and I wear leggings and big sweaters. And she was like, okay, great that that's what you like to wear when you're on your way to work, but you're

doing a show. So whenever we'd go shopping or I'd be like, we're at this piece. She'd be like, what's the story we're telling? Yes. And it comes back to what you were saying, right? What's the story? And again, that's a fun mood board or maybe that's something you write down. But it's like, what's the story you want to tell? Yeah. And then what are the pieces that tell that story? Yes. And mood boards are great and slash Instagram slash Vogue or Pinterest, any of these things.

Copy people. I literally got a sweater Rihanna had because I want to be her. You did. It's great. And I love it. It looks great on you. So you see a thing, you like the person, you like their vibe. Get it.

Get it or get a copycat version of it or something. Okay, so what are your three style words? Oh my God, such a good question. Definitely comfy. I feel every, I can't wear wool. So yeah, for me, materials actually, they're just important. Yeah. It doesn't have to be like very fancy material, but if I don't feel good in what I'm wearing,

even if it looks incredible, it's not going to look incredible. Even shoes, right? If you're wearing shoes that are gorgeous, but you can't walk confidently in them, it's not worth it. No, I agree. So I feel like something can look amazing, but is it comfortable? Do you feel like you can move and be yourself in it? I think it's really important.

Comfortable. I mean, athletic is like sporty. I think I am. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I mean, athletic is like sporty. I think I am. Yeah. And again, I guess that's comfort and color. I definitely wear a lot of color. If I wear too much black, I feel like it's not me. I think those three are a great synopsis of your style. Yeah. Color, comfort, sporty. Okay. Yeah, that's good. I like that. That's what you're today. Your outfit is yelling. I'm like, I really want the outfit you're wearing.

Yeah, this is pretty cash. But it's beautiful cash. It's like giving me like Aspen, Apres-Ski vibes. I love that. It's stunning. All right. Well, I think that's all we have time for. But that was fun.

Yes. Thanks for your question, Carly. This was great. We have some pins for next week. We will revisit. And thanks for listening. Thank you.