Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Synced: Third Location

Episode Date: August 30, 2023

In this episode of Synced, Monica and Liz chat about circumcision, power dynamics in relationships, and Liz shares details of her week-long second date. They discuss listener questions on inviting a toxic friend back into one's life, and how to handle one partner doing a 180 on the idea of having children.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, Liz. Hello. I've developed a lisp because I've had my Invisalign for so long. Are you done with your Invisalign? I'm not, but now I've decided since I've been listening, I'm like, it's done. It makes me talk different. Well, of course it does. It's a piece of plastic in your mouth.

But when it's not in my mouth, I talk like it's in my mouth. Because it's almost like, you know how people lose their limbs and then they- Phantom limb. Phantom limb. I have phantom Invisalign. So, sorry. Is it because you're placing your tongue in a different way? I guess. I guess I've changed the way that I talk. Your teeth look so white right now. Really? And I was about to say,

well, that's annoying for people because they can't see you. But guess what? Well, they might not see this part, but we're showing a little more. We have video in the room today. We do. It feels new. You're getting used to it. I can tell you're uncomfortable. I'm not uncomfortable. I just don't feel like I can see you as well, and I don't like that. Yeah, but after a while, we won't even see it anymore. Says you. We'll see. Says who? Okay, so Liz, you have been on vacation. I have, and actually, I have something in my Barney bag. vacation. I have. And actually, I have something in my Barney bag. What? No, you didn't. I did. You carried that all the way from Greece? I did. Do you want to open it for me? It is a Starbucks You Are Here collection special edition Corfu. I almost got you Santorini, even though I didn't

go to Santorini because I was like, oh, is that cuter? But I went to Corfu and I brought you the mug. I saw Starbucks and I was like, I made the entire group stop. I was like, I need to go to Starbucks right now. That is so nice. Thank you. You're welcome. If people don't know, that's my collectible when I go places. I have to go to the Starbucks and I have to get the You Were Here mug. It's a little controversial. The way I have it organized in my cupboard is they're stacked in the back. They look gorgeous. I bet. There's one column I allow for places I haven't been because I feel a little fraudulent. I don't think you should. I don't either, but it's its own thing. It's like, this is an extremely thoughtful gift from my friend who knows me and understands my wants and desires. But I have to be clear in my own head, I didn't go there. So Monica, you can't

act like you went there. And if someone comes over and opens the cupboard, I have to scream at them, that column I didn't go to. So don't think I'm that cool. Well, I took you there in my heart. And I think that's what's so cool about gifts and souvenirs is that you're in that place and that person isn't there with you, but you're thinking of them. It's very sweet. And I love that you have a specific thing that you collect and that you love because I love when gifts are easy. When it's like, oh my God, I see this and I immediately think of that person. I love when that is possible because then I'm like, oh my God, I know how to make her happy. Yes. And you really did it. It was a really pretty one. It's a really good size.

The size. The size. It's all about the size. Size does matter in this case. It has a great handle to it. You can put your whole hand around it. It feels very comforting. That's what I love about mugs. It makes me feel good and warm and cozy. What for you is the best gift to get if I'm out of the country or the state? Oh my gosh, that's a good question. Do you have collectibles?

Okay, well, I collected bags of chips when I was young. And every time I would go to America or any new place, I would get the kinds of chips when I was young. And every time I would go to America or any new place, I would get the kinds of chips that I couldn't get back home to taste them. So you would eat them? I would eat them, but then I would also clean the bag, wash it, and put in a Duotang. What's a Duotang? Is that because of your Invisalign? You're saying something wrong.

Smell it. Is it D-U-O-T-A-N-G? Duotang. That sounds like a wrapper or something. It's like cousin to Dua Lipa. A duotang is what you buy at the beginning of the school year. Binder. No, it's not a binder in the sense a binder clips. Let's do strips. This is, they have little arms that come out. You like fold them. There are three holes in them. Oh, okay. Do you mean it has these brackets?

Yes. What do you call that? I guess a folder. But a folder doesn't have the brackets. Oh my God. We might not have that. Google it. I bet that's what you guys call it.

We do not. Singed has sort of turned a little bit into a version of Flightless Bird. And that for some reason, culturally, you're so different. Yeah. it. We do not. Sync has sort of turned a little bit into a version of Flightless Bird in that for some reason, culturally, you're so different. Yeah. It's just a folder. That's what I said. Folder with brackets. Oh, you know why? It's a brand name for paper folders made of cardstock paper. You did the thing. What's that phenomenon called? Where the generic term that we say is actually a brand name. So we say Kleenex. Genericized.

Are you sure? That's what Google says. Oh my God. Or also with fridges, we call them frigidaire. And it's frigidaire. What? No. It's we have frigidaire.

Also, why'd you make? Okay, okay, okay, okay. I love other cultures. I have to stop and say that, I think, or I'll probably get in trouble. But you just made it French, but it's an American company, Frigidaire. Wait, now I'm worried that I'm wrong.

Yeah, it's American. Yeah, they just made it French. It's like Haagen-Dazs. They just made it French so that it seems like it's a better product. Haagen-Dazs is an American. Right. Well, Haagen-Dazs would be just made it French so that it seems like it's a better product. Haagen-Dazs is an American. Right. Well, Haagen-Dazs would be German, right?

If we're making it. Sure. But Frigidaire, I don't think they were trying to make it French. I think you guys decided to French it up. Let me close my eyes. Do it again. Frigidaire. So stupid.

It sounds really elegant. It works. But that's why it's stupid because it's a refrigerator. Right. There's like nothing elegant about a refrigerator. I would say bottom five least elegant. I mean, some people's fridges, though, are pretty. Yeah. And then I go, wow. Like my friend Lacey, it looks like it's been cast in a show. Yeah. Yeah. It's a model. But no, that's just her fridge. But also that's making a very basic item better, but on its own, it's not like a row back. That's elegant. Okay. I think fridges,

like a Smeg fridge. For a minute when I lived in that bungalow in Venice, there was a Smeg fridge. That's true. And the entire experience of opening my fridge, it made it cute. Yeah, no, that's true. I wish it wasn't called smeg. Do you understand? Because it's way too close. To smegma. What's smegma? Wait, Liz, you don't know what smegma is? Is it like a virus?

I'm going to read the official definition so I'm not making it grosser than it has to be. Official description is pretty gross. Okay, well, I'm going to read it. It's a harmless combination of oils, skin cells, making it grosser than it has to be. The official description is pretty gross. Okay, well, I'm going to read it. It's a harmless combination of oils, skin cells, sweat, and other fluids that accumulate around your genitals. It looks like crumbly cheese. It usually has a foul odor.

Yuck. Yeah, Google says it's a thick, cheesy-looking secretion. Oh, my God. I want to throw up. So, you didn't know? You've never heard that? What is it in French? We don't have that.

Because French people don't have it. It's a guy thing. What do you mean? How many of them? Well, it says it's harmless, but ew. I don't want to make everything about the patriarchy, but I feel like the fact that they write harmless in front of it is like a man wrote that definition. And emotionally, it's extremely harmful to me. It's mostly uncircumcised. Well, we haven't been right about a lot of things.

It most commonly appears in people who are uncircumcised. No, but I think that's also written by a circumcised man. Theclevelandclinic.org. We got by a circumcised man. The ClevelandClinic.org. We got into a fight about circumcision. We did. We had a debate. You're right. I want to be very careful about the stigma around smegma.

No. Listen, the stigma around circumcision. You want it more? No, I want it less. Then you should say stigma around uncircumcision. Oh, my God. The smegma around uncircumcision. Oh my God. The smegma around uncircumcision. The stigma around uncircumcision.

You're pro uncircumcision. I'm pro whatever people want to do. I don't have kids, but if I had a boy, I would really struggle with this. And I think a lot of women do. And so they just say like, that's the dad's arena. The dad decides, which is fair and fine. But what if there isn't a dad in the picture for me? What if I have a kid without a dad and it's a boy, God forbid, I would have to make that decision. And it would be hard

for me. And it's so cultural. Ding, ding, ding. This is a cultural episode. But in India, boys are not circumcised. In New Zealand, we did a whole episode on Fightless Bird. They're not circumcised for the most part, the majority. It's just become so, quote, normal here and, quote, right and dirty if you don't. All of these things that I think are honestly sort of part of American exceptionalism. I mean, it goes to show that everything's invented. So everything can be changed, which to me is like the hopeful take on that. I think what's hard is that you can't talk to your baby about it. They're not making any choices.

They're not in either circumstance. Are they going to be marginalized because they're not? And then is it sort of neglectful or mean because you are against it to make them different from everyone else? So are we going to perform a mutilation on a kid because we don't want them to feel different? That's what this whole thing comes down to. I'm not judging anyone who's done this. And if I'm being quite honest, I bet I would. And that's because I know what it's like to feel different. And that is shitty. It sucks to grow up like that. But I also hate that I would be making a decision for my kid based off my own insecurities. I'm already making a decision based

off my insecurities onto my child. Given the way that you turned out, which is incredible, insecurities onto my child. Given the way that you turned out, which is incredible, amazing, spectacular, you were different. Would you want your child not to be different? Would you make every decision to sort of make them fit in and for their life to be super easy, even though your life turned out so great with all the things that you overcame? Well, exactly. I believe in resilience and I believe in differences. Ultimately, that's where I am now is that my differences are what made me who I am. I'm very grateful for them, even though as a kid and stuff, it sucked. Now I'm really happy. And so that's even more to my point is I'm already making a decision that makes them like everyone else when maybe it's like, fine if he's different. And the more that people do this, the less it is about different. Again, like you just said, it's all so malleable. If next year, every parent didn't circumcise their kid, they're not different. They're the same. What would you do? I talk about feminism, write about feminism. So I get the,

what about men being circumcised thing all the time. And where we were kind of butting heads is that I often get this in my comments or people shouting this at me literally when I've spoken to things. And I don't think that it is equivalent to genital mutilation of girls. Female circumcision. Yes. I mean, calling it circumcision, it's mutilation and it's happening across the world Yes. I mean, calling it circumcision, it's mutilation. It's happening across the world in many different cultures. And it's based on patriarchal principles of controlling girls and women and their sexuality. Not to say that it's not mutilation to circumcised boys, but there isn't that sort of structural, historical, politicized,

institutionalized control of their bodies that's attached to it. They're not the same. The point I sometimes try to make in this is we're all in our own version of reality and in our own water. So for us, it's not mutilation to do it to men because we've just decided that that's a thing we're going to do. So we'll call it circumcision and say, that's just a normal thing to do and they don't call it circumcision and say that's just a normal thing to do and they don't feel it and it's fine. You know, some religions have a religious basis in this, but it's still based in being attractive to a sexual partner at this point in time. It's like they'll be laughed at in the locker room and how will they ever get a girlfriend

and they'll be embarrassed. Before our conversation, I probably would have defaulted to doing it so that they're not ostracized. But you're right that I would probably defer to the guy. And again, most men, I guess, are choosing to do it because knowing what the experience is, know that it's better for their son to have it done. I mean, given the numbers. They think that. They think that. Yeah. But are the majority of men who are circumcised regretting it or like wish that they weren't? Well, how would you know? They'd probably regret it if they lived in a culture where they were on the outside. Having nothing to do with whether it's circumcision or not,

it's whether you're on the outside of the norm or not. Sure, or not. It's like a woman getting a boob job, right? Like, which also we have to recognize that even when we talk about female genital mutilation abroad, here, we do all kinds of things to our bodies too, which would make, you know, people in other cultures and countries really shocked. Like a woman getting a boob job, you could say she's doing it for cultural reasons because our culture says that that is more attractive. Or she could say, I'm doing it for myself. Like, it's hard to know. They're making the decision though. It's hard to have a regret about a thing you didn't make the decision on. That's the world you know. That's

the existence. And that's what most people in America are doing. So you would never think, unless there have been studies that there's a lot of nerve endings that are removed. There is a reduction of pleasure. So some people are like, I want to know what that feels like. I want that back. We have a friend whose brother yells at his mom because he's circumcised. And he's like, I wish I wasn't. And I think all of it is very complex, but I don't think we can bury our head in the sand and say that this is just completely fine because everyone's doing it. I would love to see men talk about this amongst themselves too. and even if people feel comfortable talking about it in the comments, like, yeah, is this something that you think about? Is this something that you feel like you can't

talk about with other men? Is this something that doesn't cross your mind? Because, again, we do hear from a certain group of people who are very against it, and then I don't know what the general public, you know, and there probably are statistics on this, but I don't know them. Yeah. You know, and there probably are statistics on this, but I don't know them. Yeah. We are supported by HelloFresh. With HelloFresh, you get farm fresh pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Skip trips to the grocery store. I cannot say on the grocery store. This makes life so easy when you just get the package at your door. It's affordable. It makes home cooking easy. And it's America's

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why your teeth look so white. Now I'm putting two and two together because you're tan. Because I'm tanner. I went to Corfu just to get you a mug. That was the main purpose of the trip. I went to Greece for a week with a person as a second date. Yes. And I went on a date with them a year and a half ago. They live in a different country, not Greece. We still kept in touch as friends. And then, you know, he has a boat. I don't. He was in Greece. I wasn't. One thing led to another and there I am. I brought a friend and we hung out for a week. It's the longest second date I've ever been on. What's the longest date you've ever been on? I think like a normal level of time. Like four or five, six hours. Well well that's a long time six hour date well

three locations because two locations for the date and then the bedroom yeah third location they're not supposed to go with a man to a second location ever third location is fine because if you make it to the second one yeah anyway that's, that's normal. Not a week long second date, but also you were treated to this trip. You weren't, you didn't just meet him there. He brought you there. I tried. Oh, I know. Okay. You didn't do anything wrong. I want to be clear about that. I don't think I did anything wrong. I got the invite and then I found this really cheap ticket. And so I sent him the screenshot. I was like, oh my God, I found a ticket for 300 bucks. And I legitimately was excited and legitimately sending him that as a celebration together.

Look at this deal I got for, you know, it's a long flight from LA. It's like three flights. But my friendly Ron was like, that's fishing for him to get you the flight. And I did not, that was not my intention. But that's what happened. He was like, you can't take a, like, the flight. And I did not. That was not my intention. But that's what happened. He was like, you can't take it. Like, you're going to be so tired. So I'll get your flight.

And I was like, oh, that's cool. So yeah, I got to fly business and spend a lot of time with this person and a lot of time swimming. I brought my Barbie boat. Yeah. You brought an inflatable Barbie boat. I brought an inflatable Barbie boat. Bringing feminism to Greece. I brought, yeah, my feminist agenda. Yeah. You brought an inflatable Barbie boat. I brought an inflatable Barbie boat. Bringing feminism to Greece. I brought, yeah, my feminist agenda. Yeah. And I mean, what do I say? What do I say? I think nothing happened. That's actually like the most fun part, I think.

Definitely for him. He's probably so happy about that. He's really ecstatic that he brought you to Greece and nothing happened. Yeah, nothing happened. I do have a rule where I can't say no to a free trip. Okay. So be careful. I think traveling is so fun and obviously it's expensive. And just organizing a trip also is like a lot. And so when someone's like, I have this whole thing planned, you can come, which doesn't happen very often. Right.

I feel like you have to do it. And so it felt really adventurous and really fun. Also, I'm an impulsive person. So that was impulsive. You were a little scared. Yeah, I was. Because I think there are two camps of people in this world. One who would say yes to that and one who wouldn't.

And we're in different camps. Oh, you would say no. I mean, duh. Why? Why would you say no? Second date in Greece. I would feel pressure, which I really love that you didn't do anything. And by do anything, we mean sexual. Did you share a room? No. There were a lot of things that he did, even in the planning of it, that made me like him more. Yeah. So first of all, my friend was able to come and we were sharing a

room. If this would have been a different type of person who I felt pressure from or I felt was creepy, then I probably wouldn't have gone. Right. Can we, okay. Do you really think you wouldn't have? No, I think no. But it's okay to say you would have if you're protecting yourself, which you were. You had a friend there. I just have no tolerance. I think that's the reality. I know that I would feel annoyed and then stuck because this person has paid. We've talked about this many times on this show,

that the power dynamic that happens just when one person's paying for everything immediately is a deterrent for me because I've been in those circumstances with other people and I don't like it. I don't like feeling like someone quote holds all the power, but just because they paid. And then also your first date with this person was a year and a half ago. It was a three location. Four location. Four. Actually five. Oh my God. There were a lot of locations, a lot of planning. And it was very kind, very sweet, very generous. Yeah.

And also, what is, I hope, obviously clear, this person is extremely wealthy. Like, on a level that no one in my circle is. Exactly. Combined, right? Yeah. And I think that's what made me feel better, actually, about it. Because, look, I did wonder about all the things that you're talking about, where I was like,

am I going to feel pressured? Am I going to feel like I owe him something? And one of my friends was like, this is the equivalent of him taking you out to dinner. If we are to look at the proportional price, which again, it's probably not true. The other thing that I thought, which I actually surprised myself that I thought this, which is probably because of some of the work that I've been doing around self-esteem. I was like, I don't need to like him in that way if I don't, because I am blessing him with my presence. I'm lucky to get to go on this trip, but he's lucky to get to spend time with me. Yes. It feels mutual. Yes. And so if there is a romantic spark and other things happen, that's like the sprinkles, but I'm the whole cupcake and how fun

that I get to go spend time with him and he gets to spend time with me. I agree. As long as he's not a bad dude and he's in a category we won't name, but I would venture to say 99% of billionaires are borderline not great. I actually feel pretty comfortable saying, eh, 90%. What are you basing that on? I just think your life is so distorted. So it's not fair to say they're not good people. Yeah. But I don't think they live in this reality. What they want, they have immediately. It's just not a normal life. And so I don't expect the people to be normal. I don't even think it's their fault.

I think it comes with the territory. The chances of you being normal are 0.01. The more money you have, the less in touch with the real world. That I feel totally comfortable saying. Even for me, the more money I have made over time, you have to force yourself to get grounded and know what's happening in the world, know about things that aren't affecting you, care about those things that you don't have to care about.

You have the luxury of being able to choose to care. And when you have a billion, I think it gets really hard. And I think you can feel very high on yourself because the world is also confirming that for you. Again, it's not really their fault. Whether it's money or fame or power, right? That's what we're talking about. And there's a really fascinating study. I actually just learned about it recently that people who are very, when they do CT scans, it's almost like trauma for the brain. It like changes the brain. Like CTE? What's CTE? The thing that football players get because they have too many concussions. is that the part of the brain that would allow you to basically empathize with another person,

like let's say that you start crying, I might start feeling sad and start crying. Of course, mirror neurons. Mirroring, right? That part of your brain for powerful people, that part is smaller. Wait, does it start out smaller or does it shrink? No, it shrinks. Okay. Yeah, that adds up. That's sort of what I'm saying. Is that what you feel like has been- You think I've shrunk?

Do you think you've shrunk? No, I'm already so small. So little. You can't drink more. I don't think, well, maybe I'm not the best person to answer for myself. Probably not. But I think I really try to stay grounded. And I try to be around people who aren't just,

like life's so beautiful and wonderful and great. I think I have a diverse group of people in my life that bring that to the table, but it's so easy to not. But also, power is not permanent. If that guy's in the room with me, there's a power dynamic. Like, he's more powerful. But if he's in the room with— Bill Gates.

With Bill Gates or even Michael Jordan, like, someone that he, right? That he admires. Yes. Then you'll see them act, you know, very differently. And I think we sort of forget that power is in every relationship. In one relationship, you might be the one that has the upper hand or whatever you want to call it. And then in another relationship or another group of friends, you're playing a different role.

And I think actually having diversity of that in your life is what probably keeps you grounded no matter where you are. I know. And it feels, there's something that feels kind of gross and calculated about that or a little bit like there shouldn't be power differentials in relationships, but it's just not true. Yeah. Every relationship, Esther Perel talks about it all the time. And it's the fact that we don't acknowledge it that often leads to so many issues. Exactly. You have to first address it and know it's there before you can work to combat it in whatever way works for you. Okay, but did you like him after that first date a year and a half ago?

I really enjoyed my time with him, but I was like, I don't think there's like a romantic spark. And afterwards, what I really liked is that we stayed friends. I feel like you learn a lot about a person when there's a boundary being set or they're being not rejected because I didn't reject them, but when they don't get what they want. And I really liked how he was just like, I really love meeting you and love to give you my life. And I was like, awesome. And we kept in touch. He would read all my articles and send me really interesting thoughts. And we had this really beautiful friendship kind of blossom. And I was surprised, but also really happy about it. And then I think a year later, I think the both of us were like,

would be kind of great to like maybe see each other. And it never worked because we were always in different places. And so when this sort of lined up where I had some time and he had some time, it was like, should we just do it? So do you think you'll see him again? I'm still exploring because I still feel like that was not a normal experience. And I think that's what's hard, you know, when you're long distance

and you're not seeing each other in like normal settings. Yeah, it's a little hard. But he's coming back to LA in a few weeks and we'll see each other. And I'm keeping it casual, even though it's the least casual thing I've ever done. Yeah, it's a little hard. But he's coming back to LA in a few weeks and we'll see each other. And I'm keeping it casual, even though it's the least casual thing I've ever done. Yeah. Can you keep it casual with a billionaire? Like, isn't any experience going to be heightened like that?

I will say he's like not what you would expect. He's extremely hardworking. He doesn't fly private jets ever. He's like not into any of that. He's really caring and like kind. Now, do you think when he talks, to me, I feel like billionaires come with a level of arrogance. Also, now it's like people are, I'm going to get so much hate for this. Why?

Because I'm like, the fact that he is a billionaire is really not, like. But that's why I think we have to talk about it, right? Because it seems like on face value, you would be so against going on any sort of date with this billionaire. And what I want to say is, I'm glad you did it. And that's okay that you did it. Like if people are going to be mad and say like, oh my God, like how this feminist went on a date with a billionaire, you are able to make your own decisions. That is what feminism is. It's agency, which is what you're doing. And I think it's a problem for people to say that you shouldn't be going on dates with billionaires.

Billionaires with an S. No, no, I have a lot of qualms about it. And I often have qualms about men that I'm dating. There are so many men that I like who I fundamentally don't share very important values with. And it makes dating really hard. When attraction doesn't necessarily match up. And this is so common. And I think it's very common for successful women specifically. Successful single older women who really know what they want, who really do have a set of values, who've worked really hard to get where they are,

often I think are attracted to a type and that does fly in the face against so much of what they believe. That's okay to talk about. Instead of just sitting with ourselves and just saying like, is it bad? Am I hypocritical? Am I? No, we're just people. You also stuck to what you believe in. You didn't sleep with him. True. You weren't like like oh yeah I do feel pressured so I should just do it right speaking of power dynamics I feel like I had I really hope he's not listening to this um there was this interesting part of it where I he was very like golden retriever boyfriend like energy he's not my boyfriend but like he had that energy of like what can I do what do you need how do I make this special? That was also interesting, right? That I felt, I don't even know. This is so.

It's interesting. Yeah, it is. Is this like making me come off just not? No, but. Okay. It's not. I just don't want to. Yeah. I know, but then it is hypocritical in my opinion. I don't want them to see this one side. It's like, but then you are doing those things. So you have to reconcile the two and feel okay about being a person who can hold both things.

It's also a very noble version of it. You didn't just go to Greece and sleep with this dude for a week. Also, if you want to do that. But if your concern is how it looks, you you didn't even do what would be expected. Right, right, right. Okay, great. I'm overthinking it. I also think all of us are stuck in this, especially people who are public facing,

do get stuck in this paradigm a lot of what looks right versus what is. I'm not interested in that. It's a lie. That's true. And that actually leads to more people ultimately feeling shame because we just have to talk about the confusing aspects of all of these things. Have you ever ruled someone out based on money or value system? Or again, like you were like, I wouldn't be able to date a person like this, even though you actually probably wanted to.

Want to? I haven't dated enough to probably have done that I'm trying to think like is there like a trumper I would want to date that I'm like I can't that's hard I don't really have a value system around like I don't think it's a problem for anyone to date a billionaire sad billionaire is gonna date someone why wouldn't it be me or you or her or her or her? Or, you know, someone who makes their money in a way. This happened to me where I'm like, can I date a person who works as a VC, even though that seems innocuous, if they're making money off of buying old folks homes and making a profit off of them, right? And again, it's happening in the past where I'm like, oh, God, I really like this person, but this isn't like a value fit. But then you get older and like there's less and less of them. And you're like, I got to kind of at some point

to make some decisions. Yeah, that is. But it complicates things, you know, and you know, on one of our episodes, there's a woman that makes eight times more than her husband, right? Money. It just complicates relationships. And we really, really don't talk about it. No, we don't. And that's why I think it's important to because it's across the board. It's happening all over the country. I mean, obviously, this is a very specific heightened situation we're talking about. But this type of thing is going on all over the place. And increasingly so as women are making more money, having more agency.

I think it's an interesting conversation. But yeah, I wonder, could I date like the owner of Chick-fil-A? Yes. It would be, yeah, it would be hard. What if you really like, like he's perfect? I don't know who owns Chick-fil-A, but. Me either. I think it's like an old man. It's probably not your type. I don't think he's my type. But let's say I think I could, but I would have to be very clear about this business. You're going to have to give money to gay rights if you're with me. Like, that's it. And here's the thing.

This might be naive, but I also think if you're going to be involved with this person, you can actually change. I don't know, though. That's naive. Okay, got it. you can actually change. I don't know. That's naive. Okay. I mean, it's great in theory. And I also think you can't enter any relationship thinking you're going to change anyone. That's true. But I do think I would have an ultimatum and say, hey, I really disagree with this. If we're going to be together, I'm going to need a bunch of your money to go to this other thing that I believe in. Yeah. I do love their chicken sandwiches. Yeah. You talk about

it a lot. I do. I know because I've never had Chick-fil-A. I feel like every time we pass in front of one, I'm like, I got to try it. Well, no. I mean, I don't actually know where we stand currently on Chick-fil-A. Like, I'm not sure what the sitch is. is. Synced is supported by Kintz. Okay. You know, I have too many clothes. I have so many clothes, but what I really like about Kintz is they have very iconic classic capsule pieces. So you can wear them a lot. It's not just like, oh, this like really insane shirt that I can only wear once a year because then it looks obvious that I repeated. They have great cashmere sweaters or 100% Mongolian cashmere. And they start at 50 bucks. Like it's affordable. Yes. Wow. We love deals. We love clothes and we love deals. Put together is best case scenario.

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Okay, let's jump into some questions. Yes, let's do it. I can't wait. Okay. Someone else. Okay. This is from Maria. Would you reach out and connect with an old friend that you knew was toxic to you? My best friend from high school and I had a falling out about six years ago when I decided to cut her out for constantly starting arguments with me for no real reason. I found it stressful and always felt like I was walking on eggshells around her in order to avoid an argument and keep the friendship going. But one day, I decided I had enough and decided to cut her off. It's been great, and I've been happy, yet I also miss having a girlfriend to talk to about anything, go shopping with, and just have a girly night with. I've never been able to find

that same type of girl to do that with, and so lately I've been tempted to reach out to her again, despite knowing how toxic and stressful our friendship really was. Well, it's kind of a ding, ding, ding, because we were just talking about not changing people. I guess my thought is you can, but you can't expect a different result and you can't expect her to be any different or treat you any different. You have to know what you're entering and balance it out. If for you it's worth the companionship and you can sort of in your own head

block out some of these bad things or have boundaries up around those things, then sure. But you just have to have your expectations exactly correct, which is you're going to repeat the same pattern. I think it's like breaking up and then coming back with your ex. I get the appeal. Which sometimes works for people. That's true. But when it works, it's because something is different. There's an acknowledgement

of what the issue was. There's a willingness to address it. And in this case, I don't know if that has occurred. And my sense is maybe not. Because it sounds sort of one way. It sounds like she's missing her. It's not like they're coming together and trying to do something completely different. Yes. It's literally called the nostalgia bump. It's a real scientific thing where we reminisce on the past in a much more positive way than what it was. Revisionist history.

We do it all the time. Exactly. And I'm a pro at this. We do it all the time. Exactly. And I'm a pro at this. It's like an Olympic sport for me. So one thing that I have just trained myself to do is make lists. And not a list that's all like negative, like they did this to me and they did that to me,

but a realistic assessment of how you felt and what this person is like with the good and the bad so that you can come back to that list when your brain is just focusing on the good. And even like toxic relationships, we don't talk about the fact that 90% of the toxic relationship is amazing. Like 90% of a toxic relationship with a romantic partner is you guys watching Netflix together and laughing and going out to brunch. That part's easy. It's the 10%. And for some people, it's not that ratio, but that can be confusing because then you're like, but all these things were so great, but it's the part that wasn't so great that makes the

relationship untenable. Exactly. Yeah. But I get it. It's so funny because I was just thinking about that. Really? Yeah. Because I also have these kind of friend situations. What do we call those? Friendships. It didn't work out because I have a history of codependency and just relationships being, I think, too intense. Yeah, I do get tempted to just like, oh, but like, I had so much fun with this person. Oh, maybe, again, not to do it, but to your point, knowing what you're getting into, which is probably going to be the same thing. It's going to be the same, but it's just if it's worth it to her. We can't really tell you that, unfortunately, Maria, of how much you're losing and not having her

versus. But I mean, I think it's very, very hard to end a friendship and it was your best friend. So I assume you did it for really real good reasons. That's right. And to go back on it, you just remind yourself it's just because you're missing shopping and girly nights and that sort of female companionship. Maybe like, I don't know, take a class or something. Like try to expand your friendship network. I know it's really hard to do as an adult. It is hard. And yes, I think that's such a good point. You missing her doesn't mean that you need her back in your life. It actually is a great opportunity for you to get more information

about you. What are you craving in your life and then ways of getting it that are healthy instead of grabbing junk food. What is nourishing? Because again, as you know, you're sort of yearning for these moments, but you know what they come with. And there are people who those things don't come with. Any relationship that's extremely intimate when it ends, it's hard and you might miss them for the rest of your life. Even when you're in a much better situation, it's sad. I think it's weird that even like with romantic relationships, I'm like, where does the love go? Like, where does all of that go? It doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't.

It just kind of sits stagnant. I'll quote a Taylor Swift lyric. Wait, how was Taylor Swift? I can't. Forever changed. What was your favorite song? What was your like moment? Did you cry?

I almost cried a couple times, but I didn't have full spillage. Tears in your eyes, but nothing was spilling out. Streaming down. My Tears Ricochet is one of my favorite songs of all time. And so that was very intense. Her 10 Minute All Too Well. Oh my God. Wow.

It's so funny now that, he'll be so mad, but it's well known. Who it's about. Who the song is about a previous guest of our show who I adore I really loved his interview and the way he was communicating with both of us and me he was very thoughtful about including me and so charming and honestly before he came I never really understood that thing about him that everyone's like obsessed with. You know, he's on every girl's like list.

And I was always like, huh, I don't really, I don't know. As soon as he walked through the door, I was like, oh, I get it. I get it immediately. Oh, I feel like that's your type. I'm surprised that it took you meeting him in person. And we also didn't talk about the fact that I'm setting you up with my friend. What? Have we talked about it? Yes. Um, wait. And we also didn't talk about the fact that I'm setting you up with my friend. What? Have we talked about it?

Yes. Wait, who? My friend who's obsessed with you. Oh, that's for us to talk about. Well, we can't talk about him here. We haven't even- I talked about my billionaire fucking grease. But I don't know him yet.

I don't know if I want to. You don't know if you want to? All you did was send me a picture of a person. I need more information. Remember, we're in two very different camps. Got it. I am not someone who just jumps in a thing. I want to know more.

Okay. What do you want to know? Everything about him. Then you'll consider. Yeah. Wait, but I have to read this lyric. Okay. It's really important.

Oh my God, I pulled up smegma. Oh my God. But yeah, my tearsars Ricochet, All Too Well. And then we got, because you know, she does two secret songs at each show. And we got Exile. Without Bon Iver, which was a bit, I was wondering if he was going to come out.

He didn't come out, but it was still so good. And the song Dress, which I didn't really know. And now I'm obsessed. Okay, the lyric that I think is very relevant to this question. It's from her song Clean. Do you know that song? Oh, I love Clean. I love it. I love. This is not going away. I'm sorry if people are going to be upset by me and my unreversible

forever love of her, but I'm probably going to be quoting lyrics for the rest of our lives. Me too. I hope you are. So yeah, this is from Clean. It's 10 months sober. I must admit, just because you're clean don't mean you don't miss it.

So intense. It's so good. But that's this. Totally. There is a Taylor Swift lyric for every situation. Oh my God, we're doing it. Yeah that's this. Totally. There is a Taylor Swift lyric for every situation. Oh my God, I'm gonna, we're doing it. Yeah, we're doing it.

Okay, let's do one more quick. My partner changed his mind about having kids. This is from Anne. My partner of nine years and I have been waiting until I finished graduate school the past seven years to start having kids. I finished school now, I'm 33 years old and still deeply in love with my partner. When I brought up starting to try for kids, he told me he's changed his mind and now

feels too old for starting a family. He's several years older than I am. I don't want to lose our relationship, but I feel blindsided by this, and I don't want to give up my dream of being a mother. I feel paralyzed with indecision, but I also realize I can't keep putting off making a choice. If I do decide to end our relationship and prioritize having children, I'm aware that I'm starting to approach the age where fertility gets trickier and egg freezing is sadly way out of reach financially for me. Any advice on what I should do? Wow. I sadly think this is common. Extremely common. I've heard it from a lot of people that there's a mind change in the middle of a commitment. And when it comes to kids, that is so intense. It's such a big decision to change

your mind about. I've been hearing this a lot. And my best friend Kat, her and her boyfriend both changed their minds that they don't want kids. They wanted kids and now they don't. So it kind of is aligned. But even then, it's a 180. And if it's not both people, I guess my initial question is, did he just drop that bomb on you? Is he concerned with how you feel about it? Or is he just like, I'm not doing this? I feel like that's a big question mark on the relationship. Just even in communication in general. It's kind of like the question we had a few weeks ago about marriage, the woman who really wanted her boyfriend to propose because her mom was sick. And ultimately what we said was, you don't want someone to propose out of obligation.

And you definitely don't want someone to have a kid with out of obligation. It's really hard. I feel like if he really doesn't want that in his life and you really do, it's time to move forward. That's so, that feels like really kind of scary what I just said, because I feel like I just told someone to break up with someone of a nine-year relationship. And so, you know, this is all just, this is all sort of unsolicited. I don't want to ruin anyone's life. If it were me and I had full conviction that this is something I wanted out of my life, she's right. This is the age. If you're going to do it, you have to start prioritizing it in one way or another. And if egg freezing is not an option, then I think you have to move on to a partner who wants the same thing you want when it's kids. It's so big.

And look, maybe he's your Richard, but you're going to meet your Chandler. You know? Do you think there's any Taylor lyrics? There probably is. It's either friends. Yeah, a friends reference or a Taylor Swift lyric. But the other thing I would say, which is something I've been giving a lot of thought to because I'm 36 and we were just talking about dating someone that not all the things align. And this is a big one that I'm realizing like I might end up with someone

who either already has kids and doesn't want more kids. I have a friend who it's his soulmate, but he doesn't want any more kids. And she wants one so desperately, and they're not together. It's actually hard for me to see them so perfect for each other and want to be so badly with each other. But this is really this divisive thing. But my advice to him, and it's my advice to myself when I start to spiral, and it's advice that Esther Perel gave us after the egg freezing experience, which is we're reinventing fertility. Why aren't we reinventing how we do family? Yes, the ideal format, I guess, in our society is that you choose one person, you marry that person, and you have children with that person, and you

live happily ever after. As we know, half of the situations don't end up that way. But I think that there's all kinds of different ways of having a family. And my advice to my friend is like, why doesn't she have a kid with someone who wants to have a kid? Like a gay couple that are looking to start a family. She could co-parent with them. She could have a baby on her own and then stay in that relationship. I think this model of I need to have kids with one person and that's the person I'm going to be sleeping with and we're going to be monogamous, that can work for a lot of people. But that doesn't have to work for you. And if there's another way of doing it that feels better for you, then do that.

There's a million ways to build families. On Race to 35, when we had Andrew Solomon on, I feel like we talked so much about that and the millions of ways you can build a little family. I think the issue though, I don't know that she could have a kid with somebody else and then keep this relationship because it sounds like this person doesn't want children in the mix. And if that baby is going to be crying and that husband is going to be like, I don't want this. Right. I'm just saying they could discuss a range of possibilities. And yeah, if in that range of possibilities, he's like, no, absolutely not. I don't want to do that. Then yes. Also, like we don't want to try to smash that square peg into the round hole and be like, well, I'll still keep this

relationship, but I'll also do this and this. I mean, ultimately it's just really hard and sad. But if you want very, very different things out of your lives, you have to go separately and find those things. Yeah. Love is not enough. There are a lot of other things. That's probably a Taylor. Yeah. I actually found one. Oh, wow. Really? From The One. Oh, God, I love The One. It was upsetting how many times I listened to it in 2021. I was like, no one can see this. Wait, what's your favorite album? 1989 to me, it's like candy, but folklore. It's the only one I can listen to just on repeat, the whole album.

And I'm not, no skips. No skips. And this morning I was going to put it on again. And I was like, stop myself. Because I was like, you have to listen to other things than folklore. Who says who? It says who, you're who. You're right. You're right.

It says my Spotify. I mean, stats. Okay. Her lyric is, this is such a fun game. I'm going to do a mashup. Got it. Okay. You know the greatest films of all time were never made.

I guess you never know. Never know. In my defense, I have none for never leaving well enough alone, but it would have been fun if you would have been the one. We're going to cry on this. Wow. You know, I read her whole commencement speech on a fact check of Armchair Expert. Best thing I've ever done.

Can't guarantee I won't do it on here. I would love for you to do that on here. Anyway, well, I love you. I love you more. I'm glad you're home. Me too. I missed you. I missed you too, a lot. That's why you also can't really marry that billionaire because you might have to move. I can't move. That also was always there. Unless he moves too. Yes, he can move here, which that's also fine and an option. Yeah, we'll see. I can't wait to see what

that house looks like that you're going to move into. That's his house here. Yeah, that would be great. I can't wait to see your house. Yeah. All right. Well, I love you and I'll see you next week. See you.