Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Taron Egerton

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Taron Egerton (Apex, Rocketman, Kingsman) is a Golden Globe-winning actor and singer. Taron joins Armchair Expert to discuss growing up in a Welsh village with a 59-letter name, being raised by a single mother, and finding acting after being bullied as an artistic kid. Taron and Dax talk about Colin Firth mentoring him during Kingsman, expressing himself through Elton John in Rocketman, and transforming himself into a sociopathic villain in Apex. Taron explains embracing his shadow, smashing his idealized self, and believing in a benevolent universe.Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://www.allstate.com/Take printer ink off your back to school list with HP Smart Tank | https://hp.com/SmartTank See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome, welcome. Welcome to armchair expert. I'm Dax Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Patman. Hi. This is pop out, pop out episode of the year for me. Last year, it was Alexander Scarscard. This was a equal level pop out. Taryn Edgerton. Oh, my, my. This whole room was in kind of shambles afterwards. He put us in a train. Yeah, under a spell. Put a spell on us.

Fuck. I'm so excited for everyone to hear this. I really want them to watch it. Me too. Because he's so fucking cute. And so smart and interesting. Hyper intelligent. He's great.

I don't even know why he's acting. I mean, he's got a fucking, he's got it all. Taryn, of course, was in Kingsman, the Secret Service, my favorite action movie. Rocket Man, doing an impeccable job as Ellen John. Blackbird, Testament of Youth, Carry On, and is movie out now on Netflix that I imagine most people have watched by now because it's so good. Apex. Check that out. Prepare to be charmed, Taryn Edgerton.

He's an object for having. He's an awesome motherfucker. Holy smokes. Same to you. What's up, dude? Good to meet you. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, yeah, delighted to have you.

Hi, thank you. Hi, Monica. So nice to me. Yeah, how are you? Thank you. Happy to have you. Oh, well, thank you for allowing me to reschedule after I... Of course.

Thank you for saying schedule. It's already all working out. Of the many charming things about the accent, I think schedule is really high on my list. Thanks so much. I'm glad I'm winning approval already. Do you say... Oh, what's my friend, Jethro, the one that really gets me? Oh, do you say controversy or controversy?

I don't know. I think I code switch, depending on who I'm with. Because contravacy is more like posh or... It might be a bit more posh. It might be when I'm trying to sound erudite and impressive. Yeah, yeah. Which is normally on a podcast. So let's say contraversy.

Don't do it here. I love your Range Rover. It's very sexy. It's very Titan of industry. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's making up for some sort of deficit in my sense of self somewhere. Oh, you should look in my garage.

You'll see the holes are Swiss cheese. For me, and I bet it's the same for you, but it's a very specific thing. It was when I was a kid, BMX bikes were everything. I raised BMX bikes. You had to have a hutch or a GT. And I had a fucking mongoose, which is fine, but it's not what I wanted.

And I coveted it so much. And then I wanted a dirt bike. Boys had dirt bikes. I didn't have them. So all of this bullshit is healing. I think it is that. And I don't think that's just to get out of jail, freak out. I haven't really scrutinized why I have a range rover, but it's aspirational. I think it makes

me feel like I've done good. Yes. And I think when you grow up broke, you like covet these things, because they're so out of your reach. How did you know I grew up broke? I know about you. Unless you have the world's only rich social worker mother, single mother. Oh wow. You have done some assuming that's not the case. I'm going to say it was probably a modest upbringing. It was a pretty modest upbringing. You starred in England, yeah. I did. Well, I was raised in Wales. But up to two, you're in England by Liverpool, yeah. This is exactly right.

So you're just across the body of water from Wales. That's right. Okay. And first and foremost, I want to know, because I've heard you state it, you're Welsh through and through. Do you feel that way. So tell us the distinction between being an Englishman and a Welshman. We've had the great pleasure of interviewing. Matthew, Reese. Yeah, Matthew.

And then also. It's the only other Welsh person. Oh, Anthony. Anthony Hopkins. Yes, I saw that episode. But what is the distinction? I guess it depends on who you are. For me, I suppose it means being a little bit of an underdog. So Wales is a lot smaller than the UK, than England rather. The thing that springs to mind is that I suppose England is based on a mixture of different people who've come to that country at various different times over hundreds and thousands of years, whereas Wales is a little more ancient. We have a word called hierith in Wales, for which there is no English equivalent. And it kind of means a longing for the land. And I think that relationship with place, country. There's a loyalty there. Yeah. And a sense that you are one, that you are one with the land, that you're a part of the land and that there's something. You're from it. That you're from it. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever read a book called Anam Kara by John O'Donohue? No.

It means soul friend. It's spiritual wisdom from the Celtic world. And that book talks a lot about man and his relationship, particularly through the prism of Ireland, people from that country's relationship with the land and how it informs their spiritual identity. And I think, although we may not have quite the same international literary heritage of Ireland, I think we still have that same cultural connection with where we're from. Maybe a nice healthy chip on your shoulder too. Yes, a little bit of underdog syndrome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's say it, little brother. No, that's different. Little other energy. I would argue it's the odd. opposite. How could it be the opposite? Because little brother energy is like, hey, I'm like you,

pick me. I'm just like you. I'm old enough. Wanting to belong. This is like, fuck you. Yeah. Right. Little brothers do one or the other. Renegate little brother. We got to have a whole new little brother energy. They just have, they need their own identity very badly. Little brothers. In general. Are you a little brother? No. I was raised as a only child. Okay, nice. But my mother and my stepfather when I left home started again. So I have a 13 year old. I'm an older brother. Yeah, 13 and 16 year old sisters.

You have a little sister who you've sang with. Probably somewhere along. Yeah, yeah. There's nothing I won't commodify of the moment. You got to extract every penny. How else are we going to get Range Rovers and Doom Buggies? Fuck! They're not free.

Yeah, so you went with mom. I guess they got divorced at two, Mom and Dad? Yes, so they weren't married. I had me very young, 23 and 24. I think the writing was on the wall and my mother left when I was probably two, maybe nearly three. And she moved to kind of pursue a new life. I think Wales and the north part of Wales has a bit of a romantic notion for people from Liverpool, which is where my family are from, because it's like a very working class holiday destination.

So people who went there as children to vacation. grow up and think that's where I'm going to go. I'm going to go and revisit this place I loved as a child. And life will be like vacation. It will be exactly like summer holidays. Yes. I think that regularly when I'm visiting a place I like to go to and I go like, I got to live here.

And then I go like, yeah, you won't feel like this if you live here. You'll ruin it. Of course. There's a reason they say grass is always green. How long did Mom hold under the holiday spirit, you suppose? Well, she's still there. Oh. She must have liked something about it.

She's still there in a slightly different part of Wales, It's a place called Aberystwyth, which is where I kind of did my formative years. And I think she loves it. I think like anything you love, you have a love-hate relationship with it. You know, she hates the short days in winter and all the rain and wetness. Yeah. Okay, so from 2 to 12, you're at the initial place, right, that you guys moved to? Also, side note, dad ran on bed and breakfast in Liverpool area.

How often were you seeing each other? What was that, like, distance you had to travel to see him? So my father and I, when I was growing up, were able to maintain a, sort of fairly kind of functional relationship. As I got older, that became more difficult, and I haven't spoken to him for a number of years now. Okay, yes, I noticed when you close your eyes, it's a similar way at periods of my life,

I would have had to tell you about my father. It's hard. Yeah. Yeah. My parents got divorced when I was three. He was a good time, man. He was a fucking had a Corvette and did Coke. He was a car salesman.

He was living a very exciting life, and we had a lot of ebbs and flows. The father's son thinks really complicated. I think if you're not constantly in close proximity, I think that compounds an already tricky relationship. Yeah, I mean, I'm reluctant to talking too much detail about him because he's living his own life and doing his own thing. And I'll always love him. I do love him. I just don't think we work very well in terms of our relationship.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so there was a point where I pushed the ejector seat and haven't seen him since. My father died in 2012. But I think what I now noticed is whereas before I knew about all the hurt I was experiencing. And I think now from this vantage point, I'm like, oh yeah, we had just a unique gift to hurt each other. Yes. I think we were very similar more than I ever wanted to admit. And I think the way we got injured and the way we protected ourselves was just like a match made in hell for the most part.

Generally speaking, I find that I am happier and more functional when I try and view everybody else as just trying their best. And with some people, that's really challenging. Well, I don't find that challenging with my father. I think he's a guy who wanted to be a good dad. Yeah, it was fucking 23. He was 23. Yeah, dude, if you gave me kids at 23, my kids would be right now telling you I was a shitty dad.

100%. I mean, I feel like maybe I started to grow up about 18 months ago. Maybe not. And I'm already 13 years older than he was when he had me. Yeah. But it sounds like you had a bit of an ideal at 2 through 12 in this place. It's a 59 letter. Yeah.

You want me to do it? Oh, wow. I've heard you won't do it. I wasn't even going to ask you because I know it's triggering. No, it's become a bit of a party piece, but I maybe have gotten over myself. You've got to get a slice if you can do it once because I didn't catch it the first. I'm going to make sure. I mean, look, it's a name that is, I think, contrived to create that reaction and generate

tourist interest. Wow. I read it. British GQ interview with you from probably, I don't know, it's probably Rocket Man Press. And the actual magazine said, he won't say it and it's too many letters for us to even print. To write it? He said it's 59 letters long.

Wait, hold on. Hold on. I missed the very beginning. So I was thinking about dads. So wait, what is that? That's the town they moved to in Wales. Village in Wales. So when people say, where do you live?

You have to say that? You can shorten it to various different ways. I imagine like first grade through four is just teaching all the kids in town how to pronounce the fucking town they live in and maybe five through eight and learning to spell it. Yeah, and I was a kid coming from England as well

so I didn't speak the language at that point so it was a real, real challenge. But you got on well there, right? You had a lot of friends. Yeah, I was okay at that stage. In hindsight, I think maybe being raised by a single mom who was pursuing a degree and trying to make ends meet

through the midst of time looking back, I think I was possibly a little more anxious than I maybe thought I was aware of until quite recently. Yeah. Because I think I'm a fairly empathic guy, single parent, single child relationship, and I think I probably picked up on a little bit of her.

Of course. But she was great mom. You know, I never felt that I wanted anything or missed anything. But you're the only other person in the house. Yeah. She's your parent. Of course you're going to pick up on that.

Yeah, I've definitely got a bit of that man of the house. I'm trying to take it. care of everyone thing, Superman thing, which sounds like an advertisement or advertisement of virtue, but it's not. It's a thing that I'm working on. Yeah. Okay. I want to report.

I want to pause this all to report. I'm a super fan of Kingsman. Oh, cool. I've spent hours on here defending number two. I've got a compelling argument I'll hit you with later. Okay. But what I want to say to the listener who's not with you in person, you're way cuter even in person. You know, we go one way or another.

us actors. It's like we're either not as good looking as we are on camera or we're better, and I'm shocked to report, you're even better looking in person. And you're very handsome on screen as well. Exactly. That's, man, bless you, bugs. I find myself moved by your handsomeness. That's incredibly lovely. Thank you. Thank you. Are you being moved at all? Are you feeling some movement? Come on. Guys, I mean, I thought it was all going to be over when the hair went. I know, it's just starting. When did stepdad enter the picture? What age were you?

14. Okay. So that's post move at 12. Yes. And things hit the skids there when we move. Yeah, it's a little rough. Yeah, that's right. So I moved at 12.

It seems to me that around that age of preteen is when people are a bit in danger of abandoning themselves anyway. And we moved from one school to another. My grandmother was in the process of dying. We were being there to be near her. I just felt a bit lost and alone. And when you feel lost and alone, I think it's really hard to be outward looking

and forge those connections with people and make friendships. Well, you don't even know what you're selling them. You're like, you're grasping at what identity. I'm going to pitch them. Do I start with the fact that I like the Who? Do I tell them I'm into this? Yeah, exactly.

How does it work in the UK? Like, for us, you know, it goes kindergarten through fifth grade. So that's one chunk. You're six years in one school. And then you're in a middle school. you're right. Six through eight. And then you go to high school.

So where is 12 there? So between 11 and 12, depending on what time of year you're born, you go to, we call it secondary school. Well, people probably do call it high school now, but traditionally it would be called secondary school. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is were you also bracketing up? Yes. So I'd done a year in secondary school in the north of Wales.

Which is already hard. That's a hard year. That was a rough year. Yeah. For sure, that was a rough year. And then you moved. Yeah. I had this horrendous experience where.

The day where we went to that secondary school, you know, where they give you like a taster day where you go and meet other kids from other schools. Like an orientation or whatever. These two boys whose names I can still remember, who I won't repeat, but I can still remember the names, they just saw me. They saw me.

Fresh me. They saw me, and they went for me. And that was the first year. So it was rough. They marked you. Yeah. They marked me. We're going to ride this guy like a runny mule for the rest of the year.

That's right. They saw me for the little feminine, masculine, artsy boy that I was. What was your size relative to the boys your age? I was very small. Very small. Always very small. My voice didn't break until I was 16. It was rough.

That's not how you want to go into a news. None of the girls protected you? No. I mean, no. I was quite sharp. I was quite sharp. Yeah, that works for the girls. No, I had a rough first year.

So then we moved to Wales after that because of my grandmother being sick. It was a couple of years before I was sort of able to find my feet and find my tribe, my people. Was there ever a comeuppance for the two unnamed gentlemen? Just life for them? No, I mean, I'm not mad at them. They were kids. I don't know. I never heard from them again. When was your gross spurt? I kind of caught up a little bit, I think, about 16, 17. I never felt short again, but I've never felt tall either, you know? Well, you know. Yeah. I read a quote where you said, I lost all my friends I had as a child when I moved. I was quite cocky and quite confident, but that was to mask the insecurity I was feeling.

That's why anyone's cocky and confident, though. Exactly. It's hard to know that, though, when you're a kid. I didn't ever see through that. Yeah. I was just like, why is this guy strut him around like this? I think it was unremarkable. There was no extremity of tragedy or anything difficult in my life.

I just think growing up's hard. Yeah. And it was rough there for a minute. I think I was also a bright kid, and I had a really powerful. imagination. And if not an understanding of adult things, I could see grownups doing adult things and I wanted to understand what those dynamics were. So I felt like I maybe stepped outside of the world of being a child at the time when things got difficult. It was just rough for a couple of years. Yeah, I think it's hard to escape if you're raised by a single mother as I was. You're out in the world.

You become aware of like how dudes are looking at your mom, how people are talking to your mom. That role you somehow subconsciously knows supposed to be being filled by someone else to protect her is now on your shoulders. Yeah. And I think it starts down the road of hypervigilance a bit. I think it gives you a specific relationship with your sense of your own masculinity as well. Oh. Because my mother is and has always been an attractive woman and I can remember that as a boy. Oh, yeah.

And I can remember the feelings of rage and I can remember the feelings of inadequacy. And I can remember not knowing what to do with all of that. And probably also wanting her to be looking. get me more than them and, you know, of course. Well, and often single mothers, I'm not saying yours was, but also there's a blurry line between child and partner. Like you are filling in some gaps. Yes.

Because they don't have anyone there to share their day with. You take on a role that is a little more complex than otherwise, I think. I remember, dude, my mom has big boobs. And my mom would occasionally wear like fucking white tank top. And I just remember like, oh, fuck, man. We're going in the grocery store. She's in the white tank top. It's going to me like weird dudes that just start talking.

And they just like, I hated it. But not something a kid should have to think about. No, I think that's maybe. That's right. You know, but you're in this position. I'm not going to say anything to my mom. Like, oh, fuck, mom. You're wearing the shirt.

Put a sweater on. We're going to be dealing with all kinds of heat here. It's an interesting experience. And then I don't know about you, but for me, in the absence of a dad going like, good job, little tiger. You're on the road to masculinity. Mine was just like, okay, what are the boys all going to acknowledge as masculine? Yes.

And I did all of it. But it was all peer-driven. There's no wisdom in the mix. It's all made up. I didn't follow that route. And I still now, I think, when I'm asked about tropey masculine things, I kind of go, oh, shit, I'm going to be found out. And so rather than pursue what you're talking about, which is that pushing, I think,

think I sort of slightly fell into being a bit introvert for a couple of years there, whereas I'm naturally somebody who's quite expressive and outward looking, I think. Well, it's funny as we both have, mine's driven by the fact that no one's confirming a masculine, right? It's like, this deep insecurity. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, you found out I relate too deeply, despite doing all the things. Yeah, yeah.

On some level, I still feel that now, particularly I feel it in my romantic relationships and things, you know, it can be hard to, but we're getting real. deep pig. Yeah, that's what we do. That's what we do. You were right to cancel the first time. I did want to ask, though, about the character of cockiness and confidence. Because, again, there's so many ways to evaluate your life. It's like, oh, boo-hoo this. But it's like, well, that's a skill. My hunch is that's a skill that ends up being applied to Exe. Like, that's Exe. He's trying. And you've already practiced it. A hundred percent. And don't mistake me for a second because I was aware of that when you talk about yourself and you talk about your negative experiences,

I think in the cynical world we live in, there can be an assumption that you think that your lot was tougher than anybody else's. And I absolutely do not think that. You're not giving that off. You're not giving victim off. I am one of the luckiest people on the planet. And my upbringing was amazing. And it was always love-filled and great people.

But I am also interested in my fucked upness. And I'm interested in how it contributes to who I am. the artist don't want to be, the work I want to make. Yeah. You have to be. Yeah. Because as you age, you start becoming aware of these patterns you're in and these cycles. And then you're required to come up with an explanation.

Yes. So it's like, I don't think it's self-indulgence. It's actually in pursuit of like transcending these fucking patterns you want to break. Yeah, I think that's right. And I don't think it's boo-hoo. It's explanations, not excuses, not pity party. No. And I'm also very interested in all of the bits of myself that I have a natural aversion to.

The bits of myself that I'm scared of, the bits of myself that if you're therapist enough, you would call shadow, you know. I've done a lot of work in recent years in terms of like five or six years ago. There is no way to come in here with a shaved head owning who I am. I was still too scared. I was still too worried about my currency as a leading man. I was still too worried about being rejected by women and all of those things. But I've found that work in terms of actively engaging with the parts of myself that I don't naturally feel that great about and aggressively loving them for better phrase has been

quite transformative in my life. Do you know Phil Studs? I mean, do you know of him? So Barry Michaels is my shrink. Are they colleagues? Yes, they're co-writers. Oh, okay, so look around your shoulder there. that little drawing.

Phil did that drawing for us. I didn't know he'd been on the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay. So about four years ago, I was in New Orleans. I was making a movie called Carry On, and I was sat in my apartment. Great movie. Flicking through Netflix, thank you.

And I saw a documentary called Stats. The Jonah Hill. The Jonah Hill made movie. I love Jonah Hill, and I thought there was something that looked interesting and different about it. And I put it on, and something about it really spoke to me. me. Something about him really spoke to me and something about Jonah Hill's candor and vulnerability and willingness to put all of his baggage for one of a better word front and center. And I still

don't know why, but I text my lawyer of all people. I want to have my lawyer. I don't know why I did this. Your concierge lawyer. My entertainment. My attorney. It was like concierge. It was so weird. He's somebody that I have a friendship with, but I'm not in the habit of sending him what I sent him, which was a quote from the movie saying, how extraordinary is this as a sound bite? He sent me a message back immediately saying Phil Stutz's practice partner is my shrink, and I could see if he will see you. Wow. And what started was a relationship with Barry Michaels, who he co-wrote the tools with,

and he co-wrote Coming Alive with, and Barry changed my life. For me, it's the most poignant, beautiful moment of the documentary. They show this picture of Jonah that is virtually his shadow, right? It's everything he thinks is bad about him. Yeah, it's little him and he's overweight and all these things. And Phil says, he wants you to take him along and let him experience this with you. And that fucking touched me in a way. Nothing ever has where I was like, this kid I'm trying to hide, man.

he deserves to come to the party. And I got to be proud of him. Yeah. And I just found that very powerful. Is that one of the moments? I find it moving even as you're saying it. And it's been at the core of all the work I've done over the past few years. It really has changed my life in so many ways.

And I don't always succeed, but I really try and bring that incredibly awkward, high-pitched, kid with hair over his eye, slubby, overweight. You know, this year I realized that I round my shoulders because I'm still hiding the weight I carried on my chest when I was like 15. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it's wild. It's like muscle memory.

Yeah. It's so ingrained. Bad kind of muscle memory. Bad muscle memory. But there's also something really thrilling and exciting and then makes you feel very whole about learning things about yourself. And, you know, I don't know that everyone benefits from that kind of wisdom. And it's such a gift and it's been an amazing thing for me.

You also have to know the things in order to say, I don't need that anymore. That's not serving me anymore. But if you don't know them, if you're not doing the work to know like, oh, wow, I round my shoulders. It's because of this. If you don't know it, then you can't get past, you'll never get past it. You can't fix it. Yeah. That moment you talk about in that doc with the photo that's emblematic of Jonah's shadow,

it's so fucking hard to love that person. it takes a lot of work. It doesn't just go, okay, I'm going to love that person now. And it's like a process of attrition. Because to begin with, if I don't manage the relationship with myself well enough, that part of myself makes me feel ill. You know, like I hate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It robs you of everything in the present. Yeah. Barry, I don't think he would mind me saying he also at this stage in his life has quite pronounced health problems. He has Louis body dementia and watching the dignity. And courage with which he's dealt with that adversity has been the single most inspiring, affecting thing that I've ever been near to in my life. And it really does put everything in perspective.

And I know that a big way that he's achieved that is through the shadow work that he prescribes. Yeah. Yeah, you're watching him use these tools. He's like, is that work and they work. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's wild. I want to meet him. You should.

He's an amazing man. Yeah. Okay. So you kind of get into acting right to make friends. Is that true? Yeah, that little Nadea, to use a grandiose word, but that little period of time where I was a bit lost, I became aware of other people doing drama. And I think I always had that swagger that you mentioned, masking stuff, but that really started to appeal to me. It took me a while, but when I was 15, I joined a youth theater. Look, I used to be really reluctant to talk about myself as an artist. And I've completely, lost that because acting is the thing that I love most and I do consider it to be a craft and one that I will never really understand and I love it. But tracing back to that moment when I first had a taste of it, I remember as being a real inflection point in my life where I was like, this makes sense. There's something large about this. To begin with, sure, was about

a bit of attention seeking and probably was about making friends and fitting in finding my tribe. But, you know, over the ensuing 21, 22 years, it's the thing that's the most important to me and started there at that youth theater. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your gas gauge before hitting the road.

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incorporated an all state affiliate. Well, you probably tried on a few different identities by that point. And you have some light purchase on them. You're kind of convincing in that realm. But then when you actually find the thread that is the thing, you know in your heart, oh, wow, yeah, this is the thing I'm going to build my whole life around and my kind of identity. It's very powerful. Totally. When I did that first play, you were wearing a cocktail dress? That's right. Mid-Summer night's dream. Yeah, I've told this story too much.

But it was a real moment. And look, it makes for a great late-night moment telling this story of me. I basically had to step out on stage and a dress. And I had had so much anxiety and, you know, body consciousness and all this stuff. And my voice hadn't broken. It just all felt wrong. This is a make or break moment in your life, baby. It was a make or break moment.

And I stepped out in this dress to adoring laughs. And I just was like... Thank God. In my memory, my mind's eye, I sort of process myself kind of looking around, going, hang on, this is, you know. Yeah. It was amazing. And I've loved it ever since.

Why have you been reluctant to talk about acting before? You just thought it was silly? You know, we're all a mess of contradictions. I think particularly as a younger person, I did have a kind of cockiness and a swagger, but I also have a kind of classic British tall poppy syndrome thing, which runs completely in the face of it, where I sort of both have wanted to be the center of attention, but then I'm also embarrassed about it.

Yeah, you Brits have really figured out how to torture yourself. We're really good at fucking us on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we like to judge everyone else for their music taste and that kind of thing. The notion that the great British Empire would have tall poppy syndrome is already the most ironic condition at the fucking country that taken over the world could have. Maybe it's some residual guilt of that, like some. Wow.

Yeah. So you get into the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art at, what, 17 or 18? I was a bit older. I was 19. Okay, 19. Yeah. Oh, right, because you didn't get in and then had a way to your... I did a round of auditions, no joy.

And experienced what was probably one of my first real, like, little ego deaths and had a little moment to reflect. And the second year, I got him. My guess would be, like, you were pretty hot shit in school and that you get kind of humbled dramatically by not getting in it. It wasn't that I was hot shit. I don't remember feeling like I was. ever in a league above anybody else that I was doing, acting with or drama with.

But I think I had in general a sort of slightly cavalier attitude of invincibility to things at that age that I think walking into an audition room where they probably want a sense of somebody being serious about the craft and growing up and mature. I probably read as being a bit whatever, you know? Yeah. And so they put me in my place a little bit, I think. So in between school and Kingsman, you're on a TV. show you do a little bit of work.

Yeah. But obviously this Kingsman thing. That was insane. Yeah, this happens once every five years where a new actor gets in a mega worldwide hit. It meets overnight. I presume you had an agent at the time. I did. And they called and said, you're going to go read for this thing.

Yeah, I was in Hoban in London. And I was filming a TV show called The Smoke, which is about firefighters in London. And I can remember the street corner I was on. We were filming in an old arts building, which had been repurposed as this fire. station and I was on the end of a street and I had got this email through about something that was called Huntsman and, oh, Huntsman and son. And I wasn't sent the script. I was sent two sides, but it was a scene in a pub with Harry Hart, Colin Firth and one other also with that character. I read those two scenes. I was struck by a certainty. I was just new. I was like, this is my part.

Oh, wow. I've had that one other time actually, but much, many, many years later. but I remember it as kind of clicking into a mode and it feeling like, you know, like when you're, I don't know, preparing for some live event or creative pursuit and you feel like you're drawn into a kind of inexorable bit of momentum and you can't get off the ride and all of your being is channeled towards this one thing. That's what I felt like about that test. I didn't know anything about who was involved. I just knew that it really zinged off the page.

even at that age I was 23 went along to Warner Bros. Studios Leaves them which is where they filmed all the Harry Potter movies and they were setting up to do the movie and I somehow got a recording, a taping with Matthew Vaughn in the room. I don't know how I managed to get there. Here I, 45 minutes late and I was nervous

but I was also possessed by something. And I read for him and I remember he didn't look at me once during the audition, which I can remember feeling furious about. Yeah. And that probably manifested somewhere in that attitude that character has.

And yeah, that started a process of several weeks of auditions where, you know, I got to read the full script, learned that Samuel L. Jackson, Colin Firth and Michael Kane were attached. It was mad, really. It was a really mad time. Do you think your brain compartmentalized in a helpful way? where you were able to ignore the stakes of that? My own experience has been that my relationship with stakes has shifted as I've gotten older.

Someone recently sent me a video of me singing with Elton. I don't recognize the guy who did it. I'm like, wow, how did I do that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But at the time, I was like, this is a movie I want to see. And that's the best feeling when you're an actor auditioning for something or hoping to be a part of something is like, if you feel like you're making something that you yourself would want to go to the movies to see,

that's absolutely correct. Yeah, exactly. You know, that's the right reason to be somewhere. Yeah. And that's what I felt. And Matt obviously liked me and we went through all of these various different tests and readings. And I ended up getting the part. It was insane.

It was life-changing. And it's funny. In some ways, it feels like last year. Mm-hmm. And in other ways, it was 13 years ago. Oh, yeah. Wild. Matthew Vaughn has said some interesting things about casting.

you. One being, he liked that this would be overwhelming for you. He liked that this was too big of an opportunity for you because that is exactly what Exe was going through. He's this street kid with a fucked up family and now he's in the elite of the elite world of privilege and money and espionage, all the stuff. So that that was like a quality he thought he could mind for it. No one outside of our industry wants to hear that it's hard to make a movie. No one wants to Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I'm not going to say it's hard to make a movie. But that was one of the more challenging creative episodes in my life.

Isn't it great to have that as your first? Because then for the rest of your career, you're like, oh, it's not that hard. Nothing's been as hard as that one. Yeah, yeah. Wow, even this last one? Tide. A-Mex? No, I mean.

No, you kidding me? Sal, I've got equal billing to Charlize Theron. That's true. Yeah, it's walking the park. No, that was a tough job. Matt's, I think he's softened a little bit over the years. But at that stage, she was still pretty old school, you know, he's coming out of that Guy Ritchie, 90s. I would flatten myself that I might have had an effect on him over the years.

It's slightly softer than he used to be. But at that time, it was like, this is what you're doing, this is what you need to do, and this is how it's going to be. And it was tough. But again, it's kind of great because what Exe's going through is exceedingly tough. Life is tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Life's light and shade. And that's one of the things that Barry actually is, you'll know this from talking to Phil Stutz and the tools, the idea that pain and negative.

Negative experiences are something that grow if you back away from them. And the more that you move towards them and attack them, the smaller and more manageable they get. It's an absolute truth and time and time again. It's the thing. You know, the most obvious pedestrian one is I don't feel like going and doing hot mat Pilates this morning. I want to lie here and drink coffee in bed. But you go and do it, the gates to the kingdom open when you leave, you know. I do think it's an absolute truth.

And you're exactly right, Dax, my experience of making Kingsmen. at the time was overwhelming. Yeah, yeah. It was the best training ground because nothing's been anywhere near as difficult scenes. Wow. And also the thing that my experience about it is one of the things that's harder to explain

is the thing about acting is that it alludes you most of the time. It's not like you show up and you do the thing and you're fucking great at it all the time. Like I'm shitted it most of the time. Now, the filmmaker, if they were any good, make sure that they pick the bits where you're really good. So you look like you're good,

but you've spent 90% of your working day being fucking frustrated and annoyed with yourself because you can't achieve that thing, the flow thing where you're like, oh, I'm cooking here. I know what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's hard for a number of reasons, but I love it. I probably love it for those reasons because it does allude you. It alludes you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, in the movie, Colin Firth is very much your mentor. And I was curious, do you have the disposition where you can avail yourself to mentorship? Because, like, if I were you and I was in that situation, I probably would have missed a great opportunity to be mentored by him. No, Colin was amazing. I remember, I was going through a difficult time. I broke up with my first girlfriend and I was really aggressively partying to deal with it.

Yeah. And was coming in in a bad way. And, you know, I remember there were a couple of days on Kingsman where Matt was like, you're going on him. I can't film you today. Oh, wow. And Colin was amazing. He was never anything other than kind of gentle and fatherly and understanding.

I actually found it and read it a couple of years ago because I'd never read it. but I remember him getting me a copy of Rilker's letters to a young poet, which is an amazing collection of letters from Raina Maria Rilker to a young aspiring writer who admires his work. And I would recommend it to anybody. It's just the most beautiful advice for life. And Colin bought me a beautiful edition of it at the time that I did not have the fucking bandwidth to look at,

but I later found it on the shelf. And a couple of years ago read it and was like, man, this was an incredible act of generosity. And he was always lovely to me. And when he saw the movie, I always remember what he texts me. He said, you are note perfect. Oh. He's such a generous, kind, man.

You know, one of the reasons I would like to make another installment is because it would be fun to get to ride with Colin once more. Yeah, yeah. Your performance is astonishing. It really is. For a first movie of that size and scale, it's astonishing. Thank you. Yeah.

I obviously didn't know clue. who you were. And at the end of that, I was like, yeah. Well, everyone was like, who's that guy? Yeah, yeah. Do you learn some parkour? How good were they with the stunt doubles? No way, man. No, okay. That's Damien Walters, who's an incredible gymnast stuntman now director, Greg Townley. There's a lot of people making me look very good in that movie.

How did the ego handle the enormous success of that? That's a pretty light-switching moment. Honestly, I never felt like I had at the moment of a reality. rival. If I'm completely candid, I was an incredible shape for that movie. I think for the first time of my life, I felt really beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was completely intoxicating. And I was like, oh my God, I am ripped. I've got this jaw. I've got all this hair. I mean, the hair was starting to go, but I had enough. And I felt invincible. And when we finished the movie, I just went, bang, the other way. And I gained so much weight. And that really has been a feature of my adult life.

In my 30s, I've kind of got a handle on it. But in my 20s, I never really felt like the movies. I never felt like, well, now I can go out and enjoy this. You know, because I didn't feel camera ready ever. Yeah. So I never felt like I really got that moment to be strutting around. I never did. Yeah.

And then again, you know, I don't want to sound like, woe was me. That's just my path. We all have our battles to fight. But that was my own personal experience of my own success. I withdrew a little bit. I bought a little place in my hometown. I would live there. I would then go away and film.

I think in the face of that success, my instinct was slightly to withdraw a little bit. Do you think you'd do any self-sabotage? Because even when you said during filming and you were partying and like that's your huge opportunity, you know, it sounds like maybe there might have been a tiny bit of, I don't deserve this. So I'm going to do a little self-sabotage.

Maybe. I don't know. I definitely was flagrant with the opportunity with regards to what I would do on a Friday, Saturday night. I'd be dialed during the week and then I would fucking go for it on the weekend. I mean, most of us do, but when you're in that position, that's a tricky. Oh, we could have had some real fun if I could have a time trial. Back in the day. Yeah.

I really relate to that, though, never, ever experiencing the moment of arrival. I remember watching American Idol. one season, or I watch multiple seasons, but this one time we were watching it, and I'm on the couch with my wife. And once they make it to, I don't know, maybe it's the bottom three or whatever, the top three, they go back to their hometown and they take a ride in a convertible. And the whole town cheers for them and they weep uncontrollably because clearly they're experiencing it. I'm like, why have I never had that feeling? Yeah. I don't feel like it ever happens in some way. No. I don't know that that's really happening for them either.

I know. I mean, yeah. That's the awful prison of those kind of shows is you're being presented an idealized version of things that does not fucking exist. Yeah, you get your dreams and then you're filled with elation. And I was like, where's the elation? You know, there were other ways that it was incredibly satisfying and life changing in terms of being able to buy a house and do things for people I cared about and experience an incredible uptick in lifestyle. But I never had that thing where I felt like now I'm the guy that I've made it. I'm the shit, yeah. I have to ask one question about Tom Hardy because I'm pretty obsessed with him.

What is it about him that you're his talent? He's so talented. Yeah. There's just these scenes in peeky blinders that are just so next level. They'll have the dialogue. They will have the upper hand. They will be delivering this thing. And he has a presence where you go, nah, they don't have the upper hand.

He can't not have. Like there's something in. Intrinsic about him. Talk about masculinity and my obsession with masculinity. He seems to embody all these things that if I were just like him, it would have been an easy ride. So I think it's very much fantasy. Yeah, I think that's right. But also I admire, I think in my moments of insecurity, my instinct is to go bigger. Try to command control through volume and dominance. And I guess I'm intrigued by his, his opposite approach almost always to what you think is going to command that.

So I find that fascinating. And yeah, and then I'm just intrigued by what's really, I don't know, I'm so curious about that dude. But at any rate, you worked with him right after that, yeah? I did.

Was he already kind of legendary status? He was. He was, yeah. And were you intimidated at all? No, I wasn't. I've thought a lot about that time because he is intimidating.

He's also playing the craze, right? He was playing the craze. I had a kind of slightly odd angle to Tom because we were depicting a bunch of guys in a hyper-masculine world playing gangsters, but I was playing his lover, Ronnie Cray's lover. So my job was kind of to subvert it all. And Brian Helgeland, who directed it, was very open to us improvising and trying things out, which Tom loved.

And I kind of grabbed that ball by both horns as well. I have all of my insecurities and all of my fears. But one thing I'm not worried about is I believe in myself as an actor. Yeah, yeah. And so I think in that environment, I felt really excited to work with him because he's this unpredictable. He's a heavyweight. Yeah, he's a heavyweight. And, you know, as anyone knows, you're only as good really as the person you're opposite.

And it's a dance. And he was someone I was really excited to dance with. And he and I got on really well. And your character, I would argue, if you're his lover, you are the person in his life that doesn't think he's so intimidating that you're afraid to get intimate with. Yes, exactly. So it's almost like required on you to be in the mindset of that to not be fearful of him. You wouldn't trust him.

There was a scene. It never made the movie, but I was so pleased with myself. There was a scene where he murdered someone and gets back in the car. And I was sat in the back of the car waiting for him. And I grabbed his face and I snogged him. And it wasn't in the script. I can remember backing off from him thinking, I tell him. How will this land?

But I think he loved it. Yeah. I think, I have not seen it for 10 years, but at the time, I think he quite liked my hutsper. Yeah, that's balmy. Okay, so obviously the thing I'm most curious about after that is sing. Had you been singing, where does the singing come from? Singing's a big thing in Wales. So I did choir stuff in school, loved singing.

My real father's musical, and so that probably had an effect as well. I think I was introduced to music very young. There was always music being played because I auditioned for that. It was in 2015, I think, I got that audition through. And I did know all the people involved, and it was an incredibly illustrious cast. And I went along and sang, I think I sang these arms and mine. I sang Otis Redding and ignored what Garth had asked me to the director, the options he'd sent. I got the part, and it's been a really lovely thing to be a part of.

They're such good movies, I think. You can say that when you're voicing in something because you're really so little to do with it. Yeah. A few hours. Yeah, you have a very interesting relationship. but they're just like, you don't even feel like you're in the movie. That's right. You know they made a movie for two years, but you certainly weren't a part of that.

So it's almost like disorienting when you hear yourself in the anime of thinking like, oh, that's right, I'm in this. Yeah, you feel like an ambassador for the movie rather than actually being in the movie. Yeah, it is. It's really interesting. I only want to talk about Golden Circle. I'm just going to give you my defense of the movie. Go for it.

I was on a tirade monocle, remember. Yes, we saw it together. You did? Yeah. Into the movies to see it again. We did with our friend Jess and Dax spilled popcorn everywhere. It was a huge fall. I had a huge fall and popcorn went everywhere at the beginning of the movie.

I had a comically large portion of popcorn too. It was like a couple of gallons. How did you respond to the fool? He died laughing. Before I even hit the ground, I was laughing at how ridiculous that looked. Because I threw like a 30-ounce drink and a 90-ounce popcorn. Bust to Keaton. Yeah, it really was.

If we were at 120 frames, this would be. He's so enjoyable to watch this fall for about three minutes because it's spectacular. And it's in front of all these people and I've landed on a greasy popcorn. He's famous. You know, there's a lot of happening. This is perfect. This is as bad as it can go. I kind of loved it weirdly.

But at any rate, I read some reviews in my anger was simply this. I compared it to automotive journalism. Most writers at car and driver and road and track, they don't want to own a Honda Accord. They didn't get into writing about cars because they didn't get into writing about cars because they love Honda Accords. But they have some integrity. Will they'll acknowledge, hey, all of these things go 300,000 miles. The fit and finishes off the charts.

You know, you'll get a review that they understand why that is a great fucking car, whether they like it or not. And my frustration often with reviews of movies is like, if it's not your type of movie, but you cannot discount the masterclass of directing that's on display. Like, you have to acknowledge, if you know anything about movies, what went into that movie and how well it was executed.

You know, as a physical product, you must acknowledge it. You can then go on to say, it's not my cup of tea or it's not my sense of humor or whatever, but just the full disregard of this thing and ignoring how much skill was on display and acting talent was on display in great music. I'm like, there's no integrity to this whole review thing. It's a tough one, isn't it? Because as an actor, it almost feels taboo to acknowledge any kind of relationship with critical evaluation and review.

It's like you should pretend it's not happening. And of course, how many of us are successful at that? Exactly. Even if you ignore it, it'll get to you. Yes, it'll get to you. The movie I just made is the first experience I've had where I got through it without succumbing to the temptation and reading them. It's the first time in my entire career that I've done that.

I didn't read one. Look, I share your frustration. And the thing that has been my experience of it that I think is quite specific to my time is I feel like the integrity. of it is compromised by the means through which you consume the review. A fair balanced appraisal of something coming from a place of goodwill does not make for good clickbait. Exactly.

So you have to understand the myriad of complex motivations there are in writing something. Everybody's fallible. Everybody's coming from their own subjective experience. Everybody has an agenda. My best mate. I can't remember what the movie was, but he worked with me for a time. He traveled with me and worked with me as an assistant. and I'm thankful to say that our friendship survived it.

I spoke to him on the way here, but I always remember him saying to me once, there was a movie that we were both interested to see, and I said, bro, it's got shit reviews. And he went, I can't fucking care. I met my own mind up. He didn't say it even with that bit of vim and vigor that I said it with. He didn't say it to prove a point.

He just, I don't fucking care. I'll make my own mind. And I thought, wow, what a statement of integrity. And I think that that is something that I've tried to practice. Well, and repeat to myself at the times where, because we all slip into the mode of thinking that external affirmation, validation is going to be the thing that makes us whole.

And actually it never is. It's turning to yourself and going, well, how do I actually fucking feel about this? And I think I just can't imagine, maybe I can imagine. I just think the desire to eviscerate something is an impulse that is worthy of scrutinizing. Yeah, and why, why? Sure, this is a pithy bit of writing. and yeah, you've managed to completely undress this thing. A large group of people have spent a couple of years making,

but I don't know how much real value it has. Yeah, and I think it contributes to this issue we're having in this country, definitely right now, where it's like, if you like this, you're stupid. You don't get it. And it's like, oh, I guess I shouldn't like that. It's creating this division between, like, intelligent people and not intelligent people or like classy people and not. And it's like, this is not good for us.

This is already such a problem. and these critical pieces are not helping. I think it's pushing a lot of people. I've never thought of it that way. It's not good. I completely agree. Things are made for different reasons, for different people at different times.

And I'm a different person today to who I was yesterday and I'll be a different person again next week. And yeah, sometimes I have the kind of bookish, filmmakerly appetite to watch something brilliant that was made in 1972 by someone that I should have watched. And sometimes I want to watch a kind of goofy, Eddie Murphy movie made in the naughty.

because I want to just decompress. And that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, I think the thing that's going on, I totally agree with you, Monica, is like I think because of the political identity has got so massive over the last decade that that now is the muscle memory of like,

oh, I got to declare my identity all the time. And I declare it on that thing. I had this situation where I had watched Justin Bieber singing at Coachella, just him on stage in a microphone. And I was so blown away by it and moved by it. we're all hanging out and someone's like oh yeah i heard it's like he didn't even fucking do anything he made 10 million dollars and it's like Sabrina carperna had this whole thing this whole takedown of him which by the way

i had seen simmering online and i was like yeah i just don't know how you could watch that and not feel the authentic power that's exactly why it rocks because it's stripped back and it's him being on it and she goes i haven't seen it because it was only live blah blah blah and i was like yeah that's what happened. The silos she's in had declared that as a money grab and this and that. And she hadn't seen it, but her tribe, that was the synthesis. And I don't blame her. I do the same thing. But I was like, yeah, that's kind of what happens a lot of times. Their chamber declared a verdict. You've got to go along with it because that's your tribe and it's all about tribes. I think that the idea of declaring an identity is, in some respect, it can be a really powerful thing, certainly for traditionally

marginalized groups of people. And I totally get the power and the importance of that. But I think that on a different level, the idea of declaring anything about oneself as being fixed and absolute is sort of preposterous. And I hear myself do it sometimes. I go, I'm not really that kind of guy. I'm not a kind of guy who does this. And I hear myself, I'm going to go, what the fuck are you talking about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Weird narrative are you writing about yourself as you go along? Like, you're a mess of cells in a swirling chaos. We're trying to derive security from something. Yes. Some permanence. I am this. I am this fixed thing. Yeah. It makes us feel safer.

Yeah. Yeah, it feels like you've anchored into bedrock, but all you've anchored into is something that's not going to change and evolve as the context should demand that you change in a bowl. Exactly. I think, and by the way, I love capitalism. You've benefited well from it. Yes. And I think it brings the tech and it's raise the overall starvation rates and infant mortality.

I think it's the best system we got. So I'm not critical, really, of capitalism. With that said, I think what's fascinating about capitalism is like, how long will it take before people themselves are a product? And that was a kind of an unimaginable scenario until social media. Because you literally have a billboard. And on the billboard, you know, because you've watched every other product. The product declares what it does and what it doesn't do and how it's opposite of that. Those advertisements or advertisements are declarations of what the thing is.

And so we have just modeled our now presenting image online as a product. So we've got to declare what we are and what we're not. And it's all very fixed and ridiculous. But I think we've become products in some way. And meanwhile, none of us know who we are or what we're doing. And how the fuck are going to move forward and we're all having mini existential crises several times a day. And these are huge questions that are way above my pay grade.

but I know that for my own self, I'm kind of excited by my own capacity to change and be different from one moment to the next. And I think there's tremendous power in not allowing yourself to be too fixed or brittle or rigid in your sense of who you are. Okay, a lot of funny, suspicious things along the way that add up to things where you could get suspicious wearing a sim.

I would argue, you know, Elton John being a cameo in The Kingsman and then you having to sing for sing really adds up quickly to you being in Rocket Man. Yeah, I wish I'd read actual young, but I haven't. But, you know, he talks a lot about synchronicity,

and that is one that kind of came up for me. I auditioned for drama school singing Elton as well. Oh, wow. When I was 18. And you sang out and sing. And I sang out and sing. It's suspicious. It is suspicious.

Will you ever let yourself go down a fun, effervescent fantasy about the suspicion? Like, oh. There may be a little charmed magic dust floating around. I think I like to back to the ideas of certainty and rigidity. I like to remind myself that my perception of the world is entirely fallible because my eyes are my eyes. And actually, who knows what forces are at play in the universe? I saw the Tony Hopkins episode.

And when I first met him, he told me about his fascination with Young's ideas around synchronicity and how the song Procol Haram has followed him around. and he feels that there's significance and meaning to it. I like the idea that there are things at play in the universe that we don't fully understand. And I think I used to be somebody who had a very kind of staunchly, atheistic, quite certain view of things that were quite stark and quite chaos-driven.

And I don't feel that way anymore. I don't know what's going on. Yeah. There's a freedom to that. Yes. And I also feel that when I believe in a benevolent universe, the universe gets more benevolent. That's right.

Yes. When all of us humans, it's a very well-established bias, confirmation bias. Once you have a theory, you only see things that confirm your theory and you exclude all other evidence. If you want the real view of the world, you almost have to let go of any fucking theory because you'll miss everything else that doesn't confirm that theory. Yeah. God, we're cutting so deep right now.

I don't know. Should this be in a philosophy class? I will be. Don't work. Curriculum. Anyways, Rocket Man, I know that the Kingsmen were harder. but Rocket Men is the biggest swing you may be ever take in your life. I don't have the balls for that.

Even if I could sing. Really? No. Do you know what? I think it didn't feel like that at the time. Because can you recognize now it's like a fucking swinging for the fences? Not to drop a baseball metaphor on you. Maybe on the pitch.

What do you do on a pitch? Absent father. No, there was something to do about the fact that it had a musical component and it was about somebody incredibly dysfunctional. A lot of the dysfunction I related to in terms of who he was, it just felt like a chance to express me. I'm really proud of that movie and I always will be and I am proud that people who like Elton John like me in that movie,

but I only ever really felt like I was expressing me. I was playing Elton John, but I also just felt like I was going, I'm going to use Elton John to slightly express something about who I am. Elton John was like the outfit you put on. Yeah, a little bit. He encouraged you to not do an impersonation, right? he said go be you. Is that liberating?

Yes, absolutely. And he's a brilliant creative person, and I think he understands that in order to do something well, you have to feel a degree of ownership and authorship. Nobody's going at any point. Oh, Elton John wouldn't have turned his head that way in 1981 because he was doing this or wearing that hats. Like, who gives a fuck?

The point is that we're trying to capture the spirit of who somebody is by recognizing commonality between myself and him. And it was a totally beautiful experience. He's still somebody that I care about enormously, and I will always, always be thankful for it. And I could not be more proud of the film. I loved making it. Yeah, it was just awesome. It's a mega accomplishment.

It's crazy. Thank you. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. We're going to skip everything else because I've taken so much of your time. We're going to go to Apex. I watched Apex, and my mother was in town visiting. She and I watch it together. She hates it.

No, but I've never seen her have an experience in a movie like this. It was thrilling. I was so distracted by her. She was like, oh, oh, oh, that's her. This might be too much. Oh, oh, Dagg. Oh, get her off the cliff. Why is you going to?

Oh, oh, here he is. Yeah, like she. Yeah, visceral. Yes. Her arousal setting went to fucking 30. I loved it. Right on the gates. I'm sure you don't know this about me, but I fucking love men's bodies more than anything in the world.

Really? You're in very good shape. I love muscles so much. Yeah. What is it about it, do you think? Well, for me, I'll explain it as like being born in 75. And my first drive-in movie was Conan the Barbarian. I was just like, wait a minute, a man can look like a gorilla. And then Stallone was at his height.

It was like the birth of muscles. It's worth being wary of that, though, I think. Because that version of me in Apex, the guy who's. whatever silly body fat I was and all kind of, you know, strong. Every day I punish myself for not looking like that. But the truth of the matter is that I starved myself. Exactly. You were probably miserable.

And I was running myself absolutely ragged to get there. And Barry once told me, and it's such a great soundbite, but the idealized version of yourself, look, I don't want to get too heavy. You just talk about muscle. He once said to me that the idealized version of yourself, the kind of hero version of yourself, your job is not to aspire to it.

Your job is to smash it. Oh, wow. And I love that. Yeah. It's been a great, a tremendous help to me. It's one of the things that is a challenge that nobody wants to hear about, but fluctuating relationship with your own images. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, all of us have that. That's universal. Yeah, yes, absolutely. I'll hit you with my current understanding of my fascination. One is just, I grew up in a house with a violent stepdad beating everyone up. Right. So when I saw Conan, I was like, oh, if I look like that, I got no problems for the rest of my life. So that was like, yeah, fuck, if I was Conan, I got no problems. Mom can wear her

fucking tight tank top all she wants, you know. Second, and I think this is the true thing that intrigues me about muscles is it's rare that you can see a visual display of someone's work ethic and dedication. And as someone who the my shadow is, you're a lazy piece of shit who's undisciplined. To conquer that is to me the ultimate goal. I can see there's some dedication here, there's some execution, there's like real commitment, there's struggle. This is the proof of making oneself suffer for a goal. Kind of forget the goal. In all honesty, at this point for me, I don't make myself miserable. I eat in a way that works for me that I'm not miserable at all. That's so good. I work out all the time because I'm a nutcase and it's my medicine. And the esteem I get

from knowing I did the thing I didn't want to do is joyous for me. I love it. And I feel the same way. I've always loved to move. And I'm a little bit of odds with the world if I'm not doing it. But it's complicated and it's all tied up with food and all that shit, which we all struggle with. Yeah, but it's toxic.

The tiny moments in my life where I've looked like I did those shirtless days in Apex or I did a show called Blackbird or in the first Kingsman. Those days, I just. was filled with self-loading. Yeah. I couldn't enjoy it at the time. Yeah. Because I'd completely lost any distorted sense of perspective.

Also, it ain't that deep. You bounce back. You carry on. It's fine. It's just what it is, you know? How about the attention you get from other men, too? Isn't that hysterical? Well, that's the thing.

Women do not give a fuck. Nope. No. No, we both know that. Yeah. That's an established fact at this point. In fact, sometimes it's like, in the way you're saying it's apparent when you look at someone's body,

It's like, God, they really care about how much, how it was like. It's not opinion. It's not. It's like, oh, they. It reads as vanity. It can't. They don't know I'm on an internal battle for self-discipline. Sure, sure, sure.

But you know what I do love? There was a slightly different type of training I did for that movie. It was much more functional than just getting pumped up. And I felt so fit. It felt amazing. You know, that's just the joyous feeling of your body's just primed. Yeah. Yeah, peak, like what it can get to.

Yes. I used to have a picture on my wall. I was about 15 that I drew because I used to love drawing. I drew that classic Arnie shape and would write I will get to this shape in next number of days. And I'd mount a chin-up bar in my room and had no notion of how one achieves anything like that. And it's crazy. You know, that kid to think that years later I would potentially be the model for another 15-year-old kid who's head I'm fucking up. By the achieving unrealistic body type.

Do you know what? I feel like it's a part of the job and it's fine. Yeah. I feel like during things like this, I do feel an impulse to say that it's a moment in time that you sweat for and you restrict the amount of food you eat for to get your body fat down and there's a lot of pain

and while moving well and using your body is a prerequisite and it's important and we should all do it, that doing tons of rigorous, aesthetic-driven work is a path that can fuck you up. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think there's a responsibility to say that sometimes.

And also it's diminishing returns. Like right now, I think it's nice to think I can run and I can move. But who knows, in 25 years, what is it going to be able to do? And what I refuse to do is turn into the person who hates their form as they age and change, you know, because the temptation is so there. And I do think you see it in people when they develop a kind of sense of being at odds with their own form. And I want to enjoy what it can do right now. And I wanted to stay malleable and functional for as long as possible.

But I also want to accept it as it shifts over the coming years. And I want to love it when I'm 75 and it maybe doesn't do as much as it usually do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll let you know if it's possible. I'm a bit further down the road, I'll tell you. Send the message back. Yeah. Is the Aussie accent that you have in there?

To me, it seems like you have a leg up on Monica and I trying it. Although to you probably, that doesn't. It was a nightmare. I worked with an incredible dialect coach named Felicity. I think Felicity's surname begins with a J. I think it's Jerd. Sorry, Felicity. Felicity Jirder is right.

It is right. Yep. Oh, you're right. You got it. Felicity Jerd. Wow. This is an operation. There's 23 people in the backyard right now.

I am impressed. We did a lot of work. It is just a really tough one. And people warned me before the studio, in fact, we'd actually be happy if you did it British. We would like you to be British. And I was like, well, that's not really what I want to do. But I remember I got a certain way into the process

and it wasn't quite clicking in in the way that it has when I've done certain American dialects and things. Anyway, look, I think I got away with it, but it's a tough one. As a American watching, I feel like you nailed it. I haven't run it by any Aussie friends of mine, but I was like, oh, this is impressive. It's hard to know whether people are lying to, but I feel pretty good about it.

The whole thing with an accent is so dicey in my opinion because I remember doing a movie and I can't even fucking remember what was said in and they got a dialect coach for me. And I started going down the path. And maybe I'm just a quitter or I'm fearful. But I was like, this is making me way too self-conscious. I can't even think about what the scene's about. I'm thinking about where you showed me on the piece of paper. I'm changing this vowel to that file.

And I'm like trying desperately to understand why I care in the scene or the other things. I had to make a call. Maybe I don't want to have the skill set. I was like, I can't prioritize that because it's going to take a toll on this other thing. I care more about. But I think we're all different. We all have different skills. Yes.

And different traits. There is no fucking way that I am ever getting up and doing stand up in front of everyone. I respect and see it for the extraordinary feat of artistry it is and daring. There's no fucking way I'm ever doing it. I'm not interested. Yeah, exactly. I don't want to go out there and die. No, thank you.

And also I think, you know, growing up, whilst there are some really interesting, diverse distinctions between dialects in America, I do think generally there is a more cohesive sense of self with regards to the way that people speak, whereas I'm from the UK and I move from Liverpool to Wales, it sounds as different as South African does to American to most of it is, you know? So I think there's a fluidity that's baked into who I am that means that it doesn't feel that way to me. To me, it feels like the first domino I'm knocking in a string of dominoes that's going to

change other things and lead me to feel like I'm really somebody else. So I did make a movie in the autumn where I made the conscious decision. to not adopt any kind of difference in the way I speak and to play as close to me as possible because I felt like I hadn't played a Brit for seven years so I didn't feel like I'd played anything near to me. And the first week I thought I was going to have to give up acting. You were terrified.

I was terrified. You had no artifice to hide. I had nowhere to hide. I felt over-exposed. I didn't feel there was something I could lean into. And it nearly fucked me up. Wow. So it swings and round.

And I would be nervous to go back then. Yeah. I felt a little... So raw. It was a weird thing to experience. I didn't see it coming at all. And then underneath of all that, or at least maybe an aspect of that, is it the fear like, well, I'm not interesting enough on my own?

Maybe. I definitely know that I want to feel like things that I do with this thing from one another. And that's because, I don't know, maybe some sort of lofty aspiration to be like the people I most admire. But I do genuinely enjoy it. And I feel that once I, like, I just made a movie in Australia that's actually set in New York. And I, for the first time in my whole life, I stayed in the accent the whole time. I've never done that before. Oh, off set?

No, from arriving in the makeup bus to leaving at night. And what I found that in the car on the way home, I kind of struggled to shake it off. Not because I felt like I was this guy in 1957, but because you get into a muscularity. Yeah. It's like, you know, when you're acting out as a kid. and you can't stop the bit that you're doing. It's like that. I agree what's so fun about doing something.

For instance, I was in this movie, Idiocracy. It was a character I used to do at the ground lanes. And once I start talking like him, Frito, I have completely different thoughts that that doesn't have. It is. It's so fun and interesting. Yeah. It's interesting as well because going back to that thing earlier

where we were talking about reviews and that sense of certainty about anything. There is so many different versions of me within me. and I think it's true of all of us. And that's one of the things that I really love about acting is it's like a way of embracing your multitude of self. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not just this one.

And maybe you're right, maybe it is a self-love thing. Maybe actually I'm rejecting Taryn a little bit, you know, like I quite like the idea of being able to aspire to be somebody else for a little while. The movie, we should explain it, and it's been out for a minute, So probably most people listening, oh, I've seen it. But in a nutshell, Shirley's Theron is a woman who is in love with a man in that beginning opening scene is fucking bonkers. I just kept trying to figure out the math of how they had filmed that so convincingly, them sleeping on the side of that cliff. Oh, my God.

It brought me back to that fucking climbing movie we all saw. But her partner dies. She's on this kind of soul-searching mission. She continues to be an outdoorsy person. and she's going to go down to Australian climb and kayak. Yeah, rediscover herself a bit. And she meets you at a gas station, right? And you kind of step in to protect her from some locals.

You guys are in the middle of fucking nowhere. Yeah. Were you down there? We shot that just outside of Canberra. Where's that? It's a city in Australia. It's where this kind of political seat of Australia. I think Canberra is the capital, I think.

We'll edit that out if it's not. It is. Rob said it is. It's great. Yeah. Thank God. He's been right twice. Not as remote as it appears, like many of the locations, all of the locations in that movie.

Yeah. So I can't remember you playing a fucking evil human being. Is this the first time? Yeah. I did a TV show last year called Smoke on Apple where I played somebody pretty wobbly. But it's definitely a newer chapter in my life for sure. You're a psychopath. Yeah, yeah.

I'm a total freak. And we meet you in your very kind and soft-spoken. You're very appealing. It looks like you're going to be probably, you know, a good dude. A sweetheart. Yeah. Yeah. And then we have some more interactions with you as she's on her trip.

And then the turn is one of the freakier turns I've ever seen. I do want to know a little bit about that moment where basically it's starting to occur to her. You're not a good dude. And then you basically put on a song for her. Yeah. It's so creepy. Oh. And you start dancing.

It gets real creepy in a hurry. Yeah. The scene was written that way? Like, what's the fear level going into a scene like that? Well, massive. It was sent to me, the fall of 2024. It was a slightly different version of the story. And the character originally was imagined as,

it sort of felt like it was written for Chris Hemsworth, kind of like top-knock, beard, man of the woods, one with nature, leaf whisperer sort of vibe. And I read it and was like, well, look, I can't. This is not me. Yeah. They'd expressed a desire to rewrite it. So I said I'd be really interested in us finding a version of it where it's a guy who wants to appear like that kind of guy.

Because that feels more honest to who I am. And what started was a really remarkable process of like creativity and open discourse for a quite a big studio movie. And they were really open to ideas. So one of the first things we discussed, I said, look, villains dancing in movies is not a revolutionary idea. But I thought wouldn't it be cool if he kind of did. declared the beginning of this hunt and we could find a cool song. And they were open to it. And what was birthed was that sequence. And I'd been searching high and low for a song and I was training over Zoom with my trainer here in L.A. And that Chemical Brothers track came on in the gym.

And so, yeah, I asked the Chemical Brothers. I wrote to them and asked that we could use their track and they let us use it. And it was quite a thrilling thing to shoot. Well, basically, can I just say it is a fun mental trick. If you had got there and they go, you're dancing to this song. Yes. You would have found nine reasons why that's not a fix. Exactly. But it was your idea and you had to live with it. Exactly right. And also, as much as I'm playing a sociopathic, cannibalistic nut job,

that guy dancing is just me at a festival at 21. Yeah. It's just me. It's just me at the Chemical Brothers in 2010. Yeah. You know? So me bringing something of myself to it is what I think makes it extra weird. Exactly.

Because people are going, oh my God, this feels really. real. And it is real because it is me. I can feel that he is feeling this song. Yes, exactly. The song really is his song. Oh, God. Yeah.

I'll put it in a two-way tie with, was it Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs? Well, that's, you can't put us out there. You can't put us out there. No, I went like, oh, fuck, dude, this guy's even we're even weirder than I was anticipating that. Yeah, I mean, that's short, the Buffalo Bill opening that road. I'm very honest.

to say that I have a sort of slight pen pal relationship with Anthony Hopkins, and I asked him before doing the movie for advice about playing a really fucked-up individual. Wow, you got to go to the source. Yes. He said something like, he said, I don't know where Lecter came from, probably something in my childhood, but he said the only advice I would give you, and I don't need to tell you this, but the only advice I would give you is don't play the evil, play him as the hero of his story.

Yes. I really took that advice forward with me. And, yeah, it's a great time. Parts like that where the rules are a little bit malleable and you get to do something where you're being a license to be as strange as possible. So freeing and expressive. Yeah, how fun. I had a great time.

Charlize is just a bad motherfucker in this. And honestly, I know that people say this when they're promoting movies, but the movie's been out. We're here as friends. It's too late. I mean, she is a force of a baby. talk about grit. She really went there.

And I think it's kind of what makes the movie work. She trained for so many months as a climber and has taking it on as a hobby. You know what you were saying about me really digging that song? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was her with the climbing. Yeah. And I think that's what it takes to make it feel really real. Oh, my God.

Did you get to keep those crazy teeth? No, I didn't keep those, actually. I hadn't shown them to anyone the day we filmed. I had them designed here in L.A., and I had them shipped over independently of production. They hadn't seen them. No one had seen them when I did it on set. So Charlize's reaction, it's really legit.

Because I think you could plan the most incredible scare in your real life. If you're just having a wonderful evening with somebody and then you go into the kitchen to grab a couple more things and you come back and resume talking, you just don't do a thing. What a prank. I mean, that could. They are so fucking scary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're missing out on a real good life.

It's not as good as the bridesmaids, actors. with a little bit of chocolate cake on their teeth. That's so good. That's a great one. Last thing I'm going to say is I'm now following you on Instagram, which was new once we started doing research a while back. I just really enjoy you dancing, and I want to know about the decision to do so much public dancing,

which I applaud. I too have a video of me dancing, so it's a big swing. Yeah, it's a big swing. Here's a big swing. I think it's the shadow thing. For my entire 20s, I thought that what I should be aiming at, what I was supposed to be,

Choose your fighter, those guys who epitomize the Hollywood leading man. And what I have found in my 30s to use rough parameters is that I am much happier when I'm not trying to be the guy. The man. The man. And I get it. Hollywood celebrates the man. And there's a reason.

There's a reason. Tom Hardy's the man. And it's cool. We like those characters. We like those guys. I like those guys. But it's not my path and it's not who I am. And I suppose me doing stupid dancing on Instagram feels like a statement of intent about me going, actually, I'm this guy.

Yeah. And I'm okay with that. Yeah. And I like my weird. And I like my shadow. Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. I've been charmed on this show.

We've done 1,200 episodes, but I'm putting you in the top 10 of charm. I am so charmed by you. Well, I felt when I couldn't make it the first time, I felt pretty wrong about it. So I'm glad we got to do this. Yeah. Me too. This is a blast. Thank you.

So fun. I'm so rooting for you. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. And everyone watch Apex. It's fucking stellar. Watch it with your mom and just see what happens to her physiologically, cardiovascularly, check her heart rate. Thank you, both. Thank you. All right. Be well, brother.

Thank you. You too. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks. I just really shit the bed myself on my time management. Oh, okay. I had got all my workout gear on. I was like, should I ride up my bike today? Sure, always a big question.

Big, big question. And I was like, I really need to change this rear end or tube. The nozzle kind of popped off. It's still holding air, but I can't risk it. Okay. I'm going to need to repair it. And then just lift. We're going to lift.

Got in my outfit. Then I went to, I thought, well, now I have a little extra time. I got to working on the bicycle. I did the tires, a little more challenging than there's a lot of challenges. So when I finally got it all done, cleaned up the tools. Like, I'll just go work out. And I looked at my watch, 1240. My entire workout had blown by.

Yeah. Yeah. That'll happen. Got away from me. That'll happen. You get tinkering in the shop. You know, those guys get tinkering in the shop and the time just flies by. Blue right by.

Oh, my lover. This cookie boy likes to tinker. Yeah. Cookie boys do like to tinker. Bill tinker. Your morning was good. Did time get away from you? My internet was out.

at the beginning of the morning. Wow. Unacceptable. I know. And I got a text from AT&T saying so, but I thought it was spam. Sure. Or a trick. I thought it was a trick in a way for them to take all my money.

So I didn't click it. Kristen just dealt with the exact same thing. She started getting tons and tons of emails and texts from Spectrum. Oh. Like, we're going to shut your cable off. Okay. Shut off your internet. Sure.

And she's like, I don't even think I signed up for the account. I don't think it's in my name or anything. Now there's a big mystery. There's a huge mystery. So very similar. But the whole time she's like, this is all a ploy to get my credit card. Got to be careful. I think they got it.

They did? I think so. You're never supposed to click on it. Well, she looked up the actual web address for Spectrum and it was the right web. No, you don't click on it ever. So scary. So scary. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I didn't click on it and I was wrong. They were, that was. real. That was real. Because the internet was out. And, but then it came back. Oh, wonderful. Then it came back. But I do this, right? Do I like plan? I plan my morning or my getting ready to the minute. Uh, uh-huh. Which is a problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm a busy girl. Yes, very busy. And I have a lot to fit in there. But then the makeup, okay, that's going to take seven minutes. And then it takes seven. and a half and then you add a half minute to each of these line items and you're late.

Line items. Yeah. Yeah. Business speak. And then you're late. You're P&L and you realize more losses than profits. And the ROI is low. It's not good.

It's not a good ROI. I hate all those terms. Then once I learned on my realize they really are useful. I know. It's annoying. And then I'm the person I hate. You become the person you've always hated. It's almost my full arc as a human has become.

I mean, fully the person I hated. I did a good prank last night. Oh, my God. Tell me, because I'm into pranks now. Okay. So, as you know, my girlfriend, Calisey's visiting. Yes, your little baby friend. She's seven, Kenny's daughter.

I told you about the hike. We had a great hike. We held hands the entire time. I'd love to show you some pictures. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And she calls Kristen, your wife, Aunt Kristen. My wife, Anne Kristen.

Previously, Dax's mom. Dax's mom, which is really sad. But I did discover after we talked, she is calling my sister Delta's grandma. Which is great. She kept saying, is Delta gone with her grandma to the movies? When is she going to be done with her grandma at the movies? So now T.T. is grandma.

Which is so fun. Oh, my God. I'm scared for her to give me a name. At least it's consistent. So like if Kristen's my mom and my sister is Delta's grandma, Those are their peers, which they are. Of course. In this weird structure.

What if she started calling me, Dax? What about your Indian friend? Oh, no. Yeah. No. She's not going to do that. It's more of an age mix up. So anyways, Cleesey Delta Lincoln.

Kristen, Kenny and I went to Cafe 101 last night. We're in a big booth. Cleesey's so excited. There's older girls. Yeah. Older girls have had enough. But I tell them, I try to tell them, you know, what if we went somewhere and there's two older girls, you know?

It's really tough being a parent in these situations. I know. Because you're really kind of weighing a couple things. Yeah. I'm teaching them to be kind and civil. And also they're in their house. Yeah. They have some boundaries.

I also want them to have boundaries. I don't know. I know. I think I may have made a mistake on this front. Okay. Did you advise them to punch Colisei? I did. Okay.

No, I told Delta the other day I did a pop out. I pop out here. I walked by and I, decided to go pop into my house and as I was walking by your friends I heard you grunt I was unloading motorcycles and power washing now yeah and I heard your little voice coming from like the woods they said hi and you you kind of like jerked around this is why I'm into pranks now actually because it was actually very funny because you got really spooked well and you were obscured behind fikas like a hedge a row of hedges so you got to watch me react and look stupid for a while probably

That is really funny. Come on, God damn it. You said, who's saying hi? You got into that mode where you were scared. Protect my family, my property mode. It's Monica, I'm here. I'm over here by the fence. Monica, you're Indian friend.

I'm over here by the fence. Your grandma. So then, yeah, you came over, and then Delta came over, and so we were chit-chatting a lot. And, yeah, she mentioned that there was going to be a young girl. And Colise is so friendly. She wants to talk. She's so cute.

She really wants to get into it. But Delta was anticipating being, you know, a little overwhelmed. But really her ire was towards Lincoln. Okay. She was like that Lincoln shuts the door and then I have to just play by myself with her. And also she looks at me and she says, please take care of it. And then I do. And I just, I don't want to do that this time.

And I said, well, that's good. That's boundaries. you can, so I taught her about it. But then if you saw a little Colise, excited to play with him, you'd be like, girls, get over it. I agree. I agree. So, yeah, Lincoln's largely spared because of the age gap.

I think Delta is more interesting to Cleans. Yeah. Anyways, all this is to say, we're at dinner. And I'd love talking to her, right? Because I'm just messing with her the whole time. Exactly how I talked to Lincoln and Delta is there. Because she's family. She's Kenny's.

Yes, of course. So she's, um, Kenny says something she doesn't like. So she starts punching. Kenny, he's like, won't stop punching him. He's like, stop punching me. And I go, Calisi, I'm going to tell you right now, they throw people out in this restaurant. They have a zero tolerance policy on violence. He's like, no, they won't.

And I go, no, they'll throw you right out of here. And what is great is I've developed, now I had, without this ever in sight, I've developed a really good relationship with the bus boy. Oh, nice. I love the dude. You know, we have a great rapport. Mm-hmm. So I go, that's it. I'm going to get the manager.

So I got up and then luckily he was just standing right around the corner and I go, oh, perfect. Will you tell that, ask that little girl, she's been punching people? And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah. So we come back and now there's an employee of the restaurant. And he goes, have you been punching people? And she was busted. Yeah. She was so scared she was about to get thrown out.

Oh, no. And then we all started laughing and then she started laughing. It was great. She laughed. Yeah. But I came back with an employee and he got right into it with her. That is funny. Oh, it was.

It was glorious. Ooh, I just got mirror neurons, though. Like, I'm back to not liking pranks anymore. Because you're afraid of getting kicked out of the rest of. Oh, my God. I would have cried. And then I would have felt bad that I was crying because I would know everyone else felt bad. Yeah, yeah.

But I wouldn't be able to help myself. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot there's a lot there. Tranks are tricky. But it did stop the punching. Well, that's good. Okay, so the other thing she and I have going is we were in the hot tub two nights ago. She's telling me all these different stories.

And she tells me about how mean this gymnastics coach is. And he's a real mean. And one girl is going to have her water. And he said, oh, you want some water? And he poured the water on her head. No, she's a liar. And I go, I'm going to be honest. I don't believe that story.

And she's like, what? What do you mean? You don't believe it. And I go, like, I trust you and I love you. But at the same time, I just, I really can't. I don't think I'm able to believe that story. And it became this whole thing about believing that story. And then later she told me, you know your eyes turn color when you lie.

My grandpa told me that. And I go, yeah, I love your grandpa Joe. He's one of my buddies. But I'm afraid I can't believe that story. And she fought me on that for a while. But then in the car on the way to Cafe 101, she was saying, yeah, my grandpa told me your eyes turned color when you lie. And I don't think I believe it anymore. No, you made her turn on her grandpa.

That's okay. It's good to be skeptical. You can't believe in cherry tales. But the reason the grandpa said it is because she's a little liar and she's running around telling lies. And the grandpa is basically saying, don't you do that. I'll just call her a liar. You don't need to make up a whole thing where her eyes. You can tell kids exactly everything is what my experience.

You do, but not everyone does that. We are having a blast. Although, don't they say that about Hazel? It's like sometimes you're green, sometimes you're blue. Because sometimes you're in light that makes them look that way. And sometimes you're in light that makes them look the other way. Life is very. Wishy-washy?

Yeah. Transient? It's very ephemeral. It changes. It moves. It's amorphous. Yeah. All to say, your eyes don't turn a different color when you lie.

Okay. This is back to me really wishing I had green eyes since I learned they're the rarest. Yeah. You can't, didn't you already know they were the rarest? Did you need to learn that? We already talked about this. I like, guess I kind of knew in my heart of hearts. Haven't you just met the least amount of people with green eyes?

Hmm, that's a great. I mean, I'll answer for you. Yes. Well, no. Yes. You've met way more people with blue and brown eyes. Well, brown, yeah, brown's a diamond. Brown.

Here we go around. Also, I love browns. Don't listen to her. Daniel Ricardo's brown eyes. I know. Like a saddlewood. I know, but like, it's just you always want. The grass is always greener when your eyes are green.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I, Rob, we'll call your eyes brown. Blue. Wow. See, I don't know. That was a dangerous question. Why? Because people take it so personal if you don't know their eye color.

Really? Oh, no, I'm sorry, Rob. This is even one of these, I think, trends about how to out guys for, you know, another thing guys are terrible at is like, guys don't know your eye color. This is a test for a guy. Oh. What's your mom's eye color? What's your wife's eyes color, eye color ice colors? Oh, my God.

Yeah. So it's real dangerous. People get very hurt if you don't know what color their eyes are. Do you know what color of mine? Blue. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know that.

Because we're talking about it. I think I sort of thought blue eyes were the rarest. Oh, wow. I don't know how you thought that. I like blue eyes the most. Name three people with green. green eyes. Okay, Callie, she has green eyes. Are we playing it fast and loose? No. Okay. There's solid green. Let me text her. Well, what's solid green? Is there such a thing?

Callie might be mad because now we're back to the thing. I said you have green eyes, right? She just goes, I'm so hurt. Lose my number. I think she has blue eyes. She doesn't. Okay. She either has green or hazel. Okay. My friend Gina, green or hazel. Okay. You're asking me? No, I'm telling you. These are two people. Okay. So we're up to two. All right. And you're currently sitting with two people of blue eyes. So that's already neutralized.

Okay. So evens. Even Stevens. With the immediate people in your vicinity and all the people in the world, you know, yes, it's even Stevens so far. What does Kristen have blue? Blue. And the kids have blue? Yeah. See, I'm not paying much attention. You know the kids have blue eyes.

They're so prototypical blonde blue. I know, but they're generically. I don't. I think I don't, you know, people think eyes are like the window to the soul. Yeah. And I guess I get like when I look like in your eyes, I get it. That's where the human is. Right.

Yeah. But I guess I'm never looking. You can't see very well, though, in your defense. I don't know that you can even see most people's eyes. Your eyes are like. Shit blue. I don't say that. when you know I have brown eyes.

It's so insensitive. Yours are like grayish blue. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I would agree with that. Yeah, which is nice. Jess has said the nicest thing about my eyes as anyone has ever said. He said there's icicles in them.

Oh. It's very sweet. You know what color my brother's eyes are, right? What are his eyes? His eyes are probably green. No. They're red. That's his hair.

He has brown eyes. Go ahead. Test it. You're a bad boyfriend. I'm a much better boyfriend than you are. Color of your eyes, question mark. He's just going to start crying. He'll get back to you in 30 minutes. Who else should I insult?

Yeah, exactly. Should you tell you don't, tell me you don't care about me without telling me you don't care about me? Actually, when I'm like all my, all the girls in the pod, I'm really trying to think. Who's got what? I don't know. Yeah. And the boys. I guess I hate eyes.

Yeah. They're not your thing. Okay, we have a really important thing to do today. Oh, oh, we're going to finally do the... It's a quiz. From the book. What book? The quasi.

Oh, no. But we should... Okay. Do it next week. Tune in next week for... Us saying we'll do it the following week. For the green half. So what quiz is this?

Okay, this is highly sensitive person quiz. Oh, wonderful. Because this is for Blaze. Stay tuned. for more armchair expert, if you dare. Now. Do you want me to read it? I always feel bad.

You're always administering the quizzes, and I'm happy to do it if you want. I'd like to do it. Okay. Okay. Now, discover your personality. Choose your gender to start. Male.

Okay. You find it easy to make new friends. Strongly agree, agree, neutral, disagree, strongly disagree. Strongly agree. You could spend days learning about random things that interest you. Oh, strongly agree. When others are... Do you seem to have...

nothing into a sensitivity. It's just interesting. When others are upset, you feel upset too. Oh, yeah, I hate it. Which one? Agree or strongly agree? Strongly agree. You aren't one for backup plans. Yeah, that's, I'm not going to go strongly. I'll go the next one. Okay. You stay cool, calm, and collected, even when under lots of stress. Yeah. Which one? Strongly agree. Right. Have you ever seen me losing my shit? Yeah. Oh. Oh my God, yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Wow, really? Yes. Oh, wow. Okay. When.

I just think when this shit's hitting the fan, I'm very calm. Is that not what the question is? You would agree with that. Yeah. Like, my car's on fire. And I'm like, okay, let's get the hood open. Let's like there's no. I have no.

Oh, no. There's no. Oh, no. When your car's on fire, yeah. Okay. When out and about, you don't really introduce yourself to new people. You prefer to chat with people. you already know.

That's true. Even though I can make friends really easy, that's true. Okay. But not strongly. So regs? Let's go medium. Neutral or agree? Let's go neutral.

Okay. Yeah, because part of your thing is that you like talking to strangers. It's really weird. I like to talk to either dead strangers or people I know. It's periphery people that people I know know that make me nervous. I understand. Yeah. Can you understand?

That's weird, isn't it though? But like if I'm at a gas station, I talked like I'm very engaged. Yeah, you want to learn about them? Or the server or whatever. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to ask the Uber driver where they're from. Right. Yeah. But if like the Uber driver, I kind of remember his friends with Callie, I'd be like, oh, fuck.

Oh, no. Not her specifically. Callie's friend is so cool. But, you know, any friend of a friend. I know. It feels like you have to be on in a little bit of a different way. Yeah, we're supposed to connect because we're supposed to. Yeah.

I get it. I'm like a no across the board. I don't want to talk to strangers. Yeah. And I don't want to talk to friends. You don't want to talk to friends. Yeah. Okay.

You don't like to start a new project until the first one's finished. Mm-hmm. I agree. Okay. You're a sentimental type of person. Yeah, strongly agree. Okay. You enjoy using lists or schedules.

Neutral. Okay. Making a small mistake can make you question your knowledge on a subject. Medium. Neutral. Neutral or agree? Medium agree. Is that?

Just agree. Yeah, agree. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You easily spark up a conversation with a stranger. Oh, five. You love talking about and analyzing creative works. Four.

You follow your heart more than your head. That's an interesting one. Boy, that's a hard one to be objective about. Follow your heart. What do you think? I'm open to your. You follow your heart more than your head. I kind of think so.

I do two. I do two. Yeah. So agree. Regular four. You tend to prefer following a daily routine as opposed to just doing whatever you want. Yeah, I love a daily routine. Strongly.

Okay. When you meet new people, you worry about whether you made a great first impression. Do five, yeah. You prefer solo activities over group activities. Neutral. Okay. You love watching movies that let you interrupt. Oh.

A little projection. No, or not projection. and just interject. Interrupt you put something. I wrote, what if I said? Yeah. I started changing the quiz. Yeah.

You love to interrupt. What do you think? Six. You love watching movies that let you interpret the ending yourself. That's a good question. Four. You get more happiness from achieving things yourself than you do from helping others. Yeah.

Terrible quality, but yeah. Strong? Five. You aren't interested in very many things. Oh, strongly disagree. You often worry about the worst possible scenario in any given situation. You love taking up leadership roles. Five.

You are an artistic type of person. Four. The world would be better off if people made more decisions with their feelings. No. It would be worse. Strongly disagree. Yeah, strongly disagree. Well, you work with your heart.

I know, but I'm allowed to and no one else is. Okay. You prefer to relax before getting into chores. That's weird. Relax before getting into the chore. You don't. I don't. Yeah.

So you're. I like to keep the mortar floored or off. So that's a disagree. Okay. You don't mind when other people are having a heated argument in front of you. Oh, this is interesting. Yeah, I don't mind. I like, yeah, I like it.

So you. Is horny an option? Strongly agree. Strongly agree. You like being the center of attention. Oh, 15. This is like how gross you are, quiz. Your mood is generally pretty stable.

Yeah, I'd say four. You have plenty of patience for people that aren't as efficient as you. Zero, no. Strongly. Yeah, strongly disagree. You're spontaneous. Oh, five. You have always been fascinated by the question of what, if anything, happens after death?

Neutral. You prefer to be on your own rather than with others. Neutral. You love theoretical. discussions and could engage in them for days on end. 15. You have a hard time empathizing with people who come from a very different lifestyle to your own. Hmm.

Interesting. Oh, I feel like you have a. What would you give me on that? You have a hard time empathizing people who come from a very different lesson. Also remember where I'm from. I know. Yeah. I love gay dudes.

I'm going to say something ballsy right now. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I think that has more to do with your. contrarianism than it does with your empathy. Wow. And I'd mean that positively. I think you always want to look at the other side and you don't like a status quo.

Yeah. And in Michigan, there was a status quo about people and I think it was not empathy that drove you. But I have an outcast identity, right? So I think I like, it's easy for me to lock into. I don't know. I'm going to go neutral. Okay.

I think I'm more empathetic than the average dog from where I'm from. Okay. But also, yeah, a lot of times, like I had to definitely become friends with you before I was able to truly understand how hurtful and doing an accent. That's pretty shameful. No, I wouldn't use. Let's use you. I actually mean more like, I think currently you can't empathize with like a very hyperlimate. liberal person.

And that is from where they come from, too. Well, let me, let's see, though. Is it that I can't empathize? I mean, I think I understand where they're coming from. I think it's going to end in defeat. Yeah. So I have like a real strong objection that I don't think we're ever going to get in power again unless people have a reckoning.

So neutral. We're going neutral. When there's a decision to be made, you want to make it right away. Yeah. Four or five. Five. You tend to second guess the decisions you make. No, I disagree. Socializing quickly exhausts you. Socializing quickly.

If you start socializing, are you quickly exhausted? Oh, no, I'm energized. Strongly disagree. You enjoy going to art museums. No. Oh, my God. I hate them. Strongly disagree. Oh, my God. I went to one recently and it was lovely.

I went by myself. Oh, where? This one in Echo Park. Oh. And I went to see this awesome art. is her name's Sophie. I'm already a fan of hers and she had an exhibit there. So I went and I got a coffee and I went by myself and I felt so cultured.

And you really enjoyed looking at the paintings. Yeah. But there was only like I was I was in and out pretty quick. Okay. Well. There weren't that. I mean, I can remember the couple that I've loved. I've loved two.

The old Picasso one in the alley in Barcelona and then the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam. I like walking around the Getty, but it's like I look at the paintings and I feel like Larry David. Right. I'm like, I'm more annoyed that other people are getting some transcendent experience

that I might not be. And I'm like, why? What is? I see. Yeah. This is a ding, ding, ding for my other fact, which isn't a fact,

but is flower poopy. The flower puppy outside the Guggenheim in Bilbao, the Frank Gehry designed building. I went there. Yeah. Yeah. That came up in this episode. Oh, right.

And I just, I went there with Callie and it was great. You loved it. I loved it. Yeah. And I'd like to go back. Yeah. Okay. You struggle to understand what others are feeling.

No. I disagree. Disagree. Okay. You like to have a to do list for each day. Where I answered this? No, I don't. I don't.

Regs don't. Regs disagree. You often feel insecure. I mean, what year is this question being asked? Now? No, I'm rarely. Disagree? Yeah, but, but regs.

You prefer talking to people on the phone over texting or messaging them. I used to, but not anymore. Disagree. I go disagree, regs. When someone has a different perspective on a subject than you, you genuinely try to understand where they're coming from. I'd go regs agree. I think so. You find that telling the cold, hard truth is more important than being tactful.

Yeah. Five. You almost puked. You're happy to go with the flow when your plans are interrupted. No, I'm not at all. That's a strong disagree. Mistakes you made in the past often haunt your mind. Oh, five.

You feel energized after spending time alone, engaging in solitary activities like reading or reflecting. Not energized, no. Regs disagree. Okay. You prefer to rely on your instincts rather than sticking strictly to a set plan or schedule. Oh, five. You often find yourself deeply contemplating the underlying means.

meanings and implications of things rather than focusing solely on the surface details. Rags agree? I think. That's a neutral for me? No, I think you're... Strongly agree? Yeah. Okay.

Okay, strongly. When making decisions, you prioritize logic and objective analysis over considering how it might impact others' feelings. I agree. You often... I would have gone, but okay. I think we're there. You often find yourself worrying about potential future outcomes or what could go wrong in a

given situation. You often find yourself drawn to new experiences and enjoy exploring unfamiliar places. Strongly agree. You tend to trust your gut feelings and intuition when faced with difficult decisions rather than relying solely on logical analysis. In neutral. Okay. You feel a strong sense of empathy towards others and are often affected by their emotions even if they don't directly involve you. Well, I'm affected by people's emotions, but you said I'm not empathetic, so I'm going to have to take that. Let's go regs agree. I didn't say that. Okay, you prefer to have well-structured plan in place rather than leaving things up to chance or improvisation. Does regs disagree?

Okay. You thrive in dynamic, fast-paced environments and feel invigorated by challenging situations that require quick-thinking and adaptability. 55. When faced with the problem, you're more inclined to seek out practical solutions rather than dwelling on abstract theories or hypothetical scenarios. That's a hard one. That is. I would go neutral. Okay.

You enjoy engaging in deep, meaningful conversations with others. Yes. I agree. you often find yourself reflecting on past experiences and considering how they've shaped your beliefs and values. Too much so, yeah. You're inclined to take charge in group settings, assuming leadership roles and guiding others. You already asked that. There should be a question like, do you hate being asked the same question twice?

Or rather, it would say you hate being asked the same question twice. Oh, my God. Okay, you feel most comfortable when your environment is organized and structured, and you may feel stress or unsettled and chaotic or unpredictable situations. I agree with that, which seems like a contradiction. I know. But yes, I keep my room really clean and my side of the thing. You know, like I am, yeah, a little bit of a.

You prefer spending time with a small group of close friends rather than attending large social gatherings. Yeah, yeah. Four or five? Five. When presented with multiple options, you tend to follow your heart and make decisions based on what feels right in the moment. They're trying to confuse us. They keep asking the same question, but slightly different than you wonder. That's how all these are.

And they're trying to catch you being inconsistent. And they're about to catch me. One more time. When presented with multiple options, you tend to follow your heart and make decisions based on what feels right in the moment. Yeah, I agree with that. Okay. You enjoy exploring new ideas and concepts, often seeking out an opportunity. Okay, yeah.

You find it easy. We're really trying to piss us off. You find it easy to. What if at the end is that did this piss you off? And that's the only question that matter because you're so sensitive. You find it easy to adapt to changes in plans or unexexecutive. expected situations. No.

Regs, no. Often seeing them as opportunities for growth and learning. No. Okay. I mean, I get there after a long time later. When working on a project, do you value efficiency and strive to complete task quickly and effectively? Yeah, five. You often seek out opportunities to challenge yourself and push your limits, whether it's through physical activities or intellectual pursuits.

Strongly agree. You prefer to focus on the present moment rather than dwelling on past, regrets, or worrying about future uncertainties. No. Regs disagree. Okay. You enjoy engaging in lively debates. in lively debates and discussions, sharing your, yep. Okay, you have a strong desire for structure and order in your daily life,

feeling most at ease when following a clear routine or schedule. This is crazy. It's getting really crazy. You tend to be proactive in seeking out new experiences and opportunities. Embracing change is a natural part of life. I like new things, but I don't know that I embrace change all that well. So let's go neutral. Okay.

Do you feel energized and excited by social interactions, often seeking out opportunities to meet new people. Is it in a, is it like, is there a glitch? No, but it is different, often seeking out opportunities to meet new people. I do do that. Let's go regs. Okay. When making decisions, you prioritize logical reasoning and objective analysis,

considering the facts and evidence before reaching a conclusion. I'd say four. Oh, four. You tend to be highly self-critical and introspective, frequently reflecting on your actions and decisions and striving for self-improvement. Five. You often find yourself empathizing with others' emotions, even if you have an experience

the same situation yourself, and strive to offer support and understanding. I'm not good at that. Let's go. Regs. Regs disagree. Yeah. You prefer to have a clear plan and direction in life setting specific goals and working diligently to achieve them.

Regs agree. Okay. What is your current relationship status? Married. Yeah, but five? What is that? No, now it's new. Oh, now we're, okay.

Married. Married. Married. How long is your current relationship six plus years? How many relationships have you been in? Oh, God. There's 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 plus. 4 plus.

4 plus. Oh, wow. This is personal. How long is your penis? God. How satisfied are you with your current relationship? We have dissatisfied, somewhat satisfied, mostly satisfied, very satisfied. Very satisfied.

What's your age? Okay. Oh, God. 500. It's not even an option? Oh my God. I'm too old to take this quiz. No, it's 20s, 30s, 50s, 50s plus. Oh, so I'm, okay, there's at least one. But it's just weird to say 50s. Well, that's not even as concerning as I thought I was going to say 50 plus. Right. No. And then the rest of everyone. Okay, may I'll submit. Is you going to ask you for 299? Yes. Uh-huh. Oh, my. These bastards. What the fuck? I have to pay it.

I know because we filmed a whole segment. Oh my God. What bastards. I am sensitive. Someone made this test up in their fucking basement. I mean, it is Blossom.com. Oh, that's not confidence inducing. But some of their questions were good and repetitive.

Some of their questions were great. And then on the second time, they were. good. And then sometimes on the third time they were no good. You didn't love it. How much do I owe you for this? Was it $2.99? It was $1.99. Are they going to give you unlimited tests? Oh, you can take more quizzes. Oh, good. Oh, that's fun. Okay. Well, let's find it. Be my results. Show me. Oh, no. Oh, fuck. Another paywall. No, this just isn't about, this isn't. You're an ENTJ. And ear, nose and throat?

Oh, no. This wasn't even a highly sensitive person test. Oh, my God. What kind of was this? It was like a, you know, those, it's called something and it's, it's a personality type. Someone's happy right now. Like, someone has wanted us to take this test, but we don't know about it. No, it's, it's like an eneogram test.

It is, but it's like a really common one. You're an EN or an FG. But it won't tell you the name. I think it's Myers-Briggs maybe. Let's see. E.N.T.J. personality. Stanford-Bris.

It's Myers-Briggs. That's like the original one. So that's cool. Now you know. What am I in E&T? You're an E&TJ. That's a confident leader. Okay.

That tracks. 76% extraversion. Okay. I'd agree with that. Method of processing information, 81% intuition. Hmm. Mm-hmm. ENTJs are intuitive thinkers fascinated by possibilities, patterns, and future outcomes.

Interesting. Okay. 55% thinking. That feels like neutral. That's a push. Well, because it's either, so it's introversion versus extroversion. That's the I and the E. Intuition versus sensing.

Okay. That's your method of processing information, your intuition. Decision making, functioning is thinking or feeling. You're thinking, but at 55%. Yeah, I'm on the fence. And then management function is judging or perceiving and you're 61% judging. Wow. What a left turn.

We still don't know if you're highly sensitive. You're right. We'll have to find that test and we'll do it when we do the. They tricked me. Briggs and Stratton test from your book. What was that called? Myers-Briggs. No, from your book.

Oh, yeah, green hats. Green hats. What a mess. of the facts. Oh. All right. All right. Goodbye.

Oh, are there any facts? That was it. Oh, great. Yeah. Love you. Love you.