Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Trevor Noah

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Trevor Noah (What Now, The Daily Show) is a comedian, writer, and podcaster. Trevor joins the Armchair Expert to discuss why silence scares him, people’s aversion to being blamed, and how language helps you get to the granularity of meaning. Trevor and Dax discuss the false idea that you have to consume the news all the time, the history of the apartheid system in South Africa, and having patience for people only if they’re engaged in the fight. Trevor explains how hyper-vigilance is a form of safety, that life doesn’t happen in snippets, and how important community and connectedness is to him. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Mrs. Mouse. We didn't even talk about this on the fact check, but the strike is over. The strike is over. Congratulations to all. Congratulations. Well, they haven't, it's not done done.

They have a deal that they're now bringing to the members to vote on. I mean, so presumably it will, that'll. But it said 1201 on Thursday, members can go back to work. Oh, it did? Yeah. Oh, so presumably it will. But it said 1201 on Thursday, members can go back to work. Oh, it did? Yeah. Oh, so then maybe the members already approved the deal they brought back.

I think so. But when I read the announcement, it was like, they have a deal. They've agreed upon a deal they'll now bring back to the members to vote on. Oh, maybe. Oh, boy. But anyway, I think it's open. Okay, congratulations. Today's guest is a babe. We've been trying to have him on for long long long long

long long time has been scheduled it's been unscheduled it's been scheduled right and the day has finally arrived and it really delivered trevor noah what a smart motherfucker oh my god is he smart yeah very fun to talk to yes he loves to dance he dance. He lives to dance, I'd say. Trevor Noah is a comedian, a bestselling author, an Emmy award-winning host, and then he's a hugely successful touring standup. Of course, you've come to love him for seven years on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah, and he has a new podcast out right now, a Spotify original called What Now with Trevor Noah. So please check that out. That is out now and enjoy the dance with Trevor Noah. So please check that out. That is out now. And enjoy the dance with Trevor Noah.

Trip Planner by Expedia. You were made to have strong opinions about sand. We were made to help you and your friends find a place on a beach with a pool and a marina and a waterfall and a soaking tub. Expedia, made to travel. He's an object expert. He's an object expert. He's an object expert.

Oh, you go side saddle. Do you do this when you're doing your podcast? I used to DJ. Oh, okay. So I'm more comfortable with one ear i just got used to hearing the room yeah and then hearing what's happening in my ear i also had a radio show when i was in south africa way back in the day and then same thing so you'd always have one ear up so you can talk to people in the studio and then one ear monitoring what's happening yes you know i'm

used to one earring it could you just get a set that just doesn't have the other oh you do yeah oh you have that yeah you've got the one and it just has a one ear oh okay could you just get a set that just doesn't have the other oh you have that yeah you've got the one and it just has a one ear oh okay either they flip up or you have one that's literally a one ear like you work at at&t on the phone bank or something i feel like that would be a lot of stimuli from the outside and from inside your headphones but But it's the same thing. No, I don't think so. You're in one environment. Well, she's right in that you'd be hearing all this extraneous noise in the environment on one side of your brain or your ear. And then the other side's very dialed in.

So think of it this way. Let's say you're DJing like a party. The music that they're hearing is the music you're hearing. But then you're also hearing the music that you're going to play and the music that you're currently playing. So it's all the same information coming in at the same time with maybe 20% difference. And the ADHD is an asset in that moment. It's got to be, right?

I guess it is, yeah. I've never ever considered that I had it. I know I'm dyslexic, but I never considered I had it. And then we had Gabor Mate on. And afterwards, he was like, have you ever been tested for ADHD? It was kind of a thin slice assessment that maybe I had it. So I've been kind of mulling it over. And I guess I never thought I had it because I can sit down for protracted periods of time and focus. I'm a writer. So to me, that's like, well, no, I have unlimited attention when necessary. But I do think the quick thinking

has to be, that's got to be part of it, right? Yeah. I would be careful to receive a diagnosis from anyone. I've learned over the years that many of the things we deal with, with our brains overlap. Some of the side effects of ADHD are similar to side effects of OCD or similar to people who are bipolar. So if you're not careful, I've met a lot of people just be like, oh, you're like you might not be yeah you may just have overlapping symptoms i have a friend who has autism and then she has some of the symptoms but she's not adhd but you know what i mean so yeah we love to diagnose well it's all driven by the dsm right there has to be categories so that you can get reimbursement for i mean truly so you're. All these things could be like a multitude of personality characteristics

that we're forced to categorize and break into and draw artificial boundaries between ADHD and OCD and blah, blah, blah. First of all, I'm assuming you get the same thing I get all the time when I meet people in public, which is, oh my God, you're so much taller than I was expecting. Is that a common?

Yeah, I get that. Yeah. You get that? All the time. Huh. I wonder what it is. I wonder if it's because our bodies do not present our height. It might be like a thing about our torsos and how they're proportioned.

That could be it. Could be like a head torso legs ratio that doesn't make you look tall. Right. I think it's also on screen. It's really hard to gauge people's heights. And that's where most people are seeing both of you. Yes. Also, you're seated behind a dad. That's what it probably is. That's true. That's a huge piece. Yeah, that's a huge piece. So we're not really seeing you standing. I guess when the guests would come out,

you would stand. I don't know. No, but I'm with you. It's probably something in that world. Of all the things to be told when someone meets you, I'm delighted to hear that. I mean, I'm presuming that's positive. Let's put it this way. Because we are in a world where being tall is considered a good thing. Oh, it's an advantage. For men? You think it would be offensive if someone said to a woman, wow, you're taller than I thought.

Oh, it could go either way. It wouldn't be 100% a compliment. I don't think it would be offensive either. You don't think that's a female ideal, do you? I mean, we acknowledge that models are tall. That's why I'm asking. I don't think it's broadly. I bet if you polled Americans and said, list your three favorite traits in a female, if you were designing one in the lab.

I don't think tall makes the top three. No, I agree with you. Oh, okay, great, great, great. I agree with you, yeah. But for a male. But I don't think it's offensive. That's what I was confused by. It's not offensive.

So I get the opposite all the time. People, if they meet me in person, oh my God, great, great. But for a male. But I don't think it's offensive. That's what I was confused by. It's not offensive. So I get the opposite all the time. People, if they meet me in person, oh my God, you're so short. Right. Which I am so short. But I actually take that as a compliment because, and I guess this does mean tall is better, because it makes me feel like, oh, I present tall. Yes, exactly. Oh, well, that's a very glass half full.

Yeah, I try. Yeah. That's true. That's what it is. And I guess conversely, you and I should be thinking, God, I present tall. Yes, exactly. Oh, well, that's a very glass half full. Yeah, I try. That's true. That's what it is. And I guess conversely, you and I should be thinking, God, we present so short. We should reduce our compliment to a burn. And when you think about it, presenting short is what short people generally do. Well, they have no option.

It's the wrong way around. No, what I mean is like, you know, you think of Napoleon. There are countless stories of shorter people in the world who have, you know what I mean? Some gumption. Yeah. We call it mixed messages. So my wife's also very small in stature, but mighty in power, as is Monica. I actually love that combination.

It's just like a little surprise. Yes, yes. It's like, oh my God. You like explosives as well? You like bombs? Love pyrotechnics. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's pretty much the same principle.

A lot of dynamite. Yeah. Tiny little package that explodes and decimates everything. Oh, we sure do. It's like a little woodland creature you see and then you pick up in your petting net and then huge fangs come out and then you leap back. You're like, oh my God, I got to be careful. You must be an arousal junkie like me.

Are you a bit of an arousal junkie? Say more. Say more. What do you mean by that? I will. And I love that term too. That's like a CIA thing. Say more.

I didn't know your background at all. Here's what I know about you. You interviewed me at some point on The Daily Show during COVID. Monica will tell you, I came out of that and I was like, boy, that Trevor guy is wonderful. Like I really enjoyed chatting with him. I don't know what my expectation was, but I just thought, oh, I see this dude and I really like him. He was like, everyone knows that already. Everyone did know that, especially all the ladies.

I present nice. You do. You really do. But then I learned your story today. And although there's so many things we don't have in common, the violence, the step parents, the single mom, this stuff to me is very identical. And so chaos and excitement, it has made my base desire of arousal quite high. Interesting. Yes.

Like I feel very calm in chaos. If I go into 7-Eleven and shit's popping off and there's an unhoused dude fighting the guy behind the car, I will love it. I'm in the mix. That excites me and I feel alive. And I guess I'm attributing it to nurture and not nature. I could have just been born this way. But I am curious, given your background, if you are a bit of an arousal junkie yourself. I like that you said unhoused.

Do you like that? I'm not sold on that. I don't like unhoused. I'm not sold on that. I'm doing it just to keep people off my back. I'm not sold on it. No. I'll tell you why.

Yeah, let's get into it. I'll tell you why. It's the same thing. I know. I know. I don't know how they think it's a compliment. It is the same thing. I've also never come across an unhoused person who's like, hey, don't call me homeless. Here's my issue.

I think sometimes we are engaging in conversations where on an academic level, some people are trying to split hairs that aren't necessarily getting anywhere close to the issue. If this was ever used as a slur, I can understand. Totally. So I go like, there are some words that have evolved over time, but they were used as slurs. So I'm like, all right, let's try and move away from using that word. I can understand that. Sometimes I'm resistant.

I think we all are. But there are times when I go, I get it. Yeah. But homeless was never a slur. I know. It is not a slur. It is the condition that a person is in. You are lacking of a home and

so now all people have done is they flip the word around to seem like they're helping or solving a problem when they're not homeless less on unhoused house home it's the exact same i feel like you're gaslighting me in these situations yes next year it'll be without home you see and it's just like no man i'll go further it's more nefarious than that. First of all, it's patronizing. What it really says is we feel like shit that this is a condition and we're going to try to dress up what we call you every few months to make you know we're trying. I disagree, funny enough.

Okay. I don't think it's about showing homeless people that you care. Oh, I don't either. Your fellow liberals. Yeah, it's about showing other people that, look, no, I care so much about them that I've given them a new title. Yes. So then that's the second thing and then I'll say to a lot of these people I'll go hey have you voted to

change the housing in your area have you voted for or against it every time I see these councils and whatever in California there's countless votes that come up where they go hey can we adjust the housing rules in this area can we figure out who can live where? Everyone votes against it. People are so progressive until it's in their backyard. And then all of a sudden, I remember seeing people going to Santa Monica. There was a homeless encampment that was being moved and they were going to protest, but none of the people were from that area. And I found it particularly interesting. And I'm not saying that they're all bad people, but I do think we have to be careful to, as they say, put your money where your mouth is. A lot of people want to engage in progressivism

on a theoretical level. You want to use all the right language. You want to tweet all the right things. But then in your actual life, in the way you vote and the things that you actually move towards, you find you're not as pro having kids from different areas in your school or you're like oh i want my kids to go to a good school i mean i want everyone into schools but i i don't i just look here's the thing i love that but i think yeah it's like not in my backyard yeah like i get it but anyway you're going so let's go back i apologize no i love it stimuli so you say you when there's chaos i gotta say one more thing because we need to add one more layer to it yes and there was a great article recently said maybe we're the bad guys in New York Times

I also think it's an opportunity for just righteousness that's it it's just a way to signal to other people that you're righteous and then put yourself in a position to judge all the other people who are not sane on house but for me it's just fucking exhausting so I'll go unhoused instead of homeless I guess I just participate because I don't want to hear about it so here's what i struggle with in society there are times when i will accept that we're moving in a direction but then there are times when i go like no i'm willing to stand on the fact that i think something is ridiculous yes yes and i'll go from there i got bigger fish to fry i'm more interested in whether you're an arousal junkie so i think i relate to the first part of what you're saying. I function very well.

And strangely enough, my body remains very calm in a very stressful situation. So if you're ever getting carjacked, you want me driving the car. If there's ever some chaos breaking out somewhere, you want me in the situation. In an airport, I've never panicked. Flights are canceled. People are screaming. I've run to a gate calm, but it's because I've grown up in such a tumultuous environment that that is almost a baseline. What I've had to learn over time is to get comfortable with silence and calm.

The problem is if you grew up in a world where shit was always popping off, you always had to be prepared for that. Hypervigilant. Exactly. All silence was for me as a child was the moment in a horror movie where something's about to happen. I don't know about you, but the scariest parts of a horror movie for me are the parts where there's just nothing happening. Yeah. You know, it's just like a couple walking around in the kitchen.

Honey, did you see where I put the mugs? And I'm like, oh, oh, this is not good. Oh, God. Oh, and then people like opening cabinets and people walking into other rooms and then the attic. And I'm like, no, no. Once the actual violence happens and once the monster comes out, I'm like, okay. You almost feel relieved. I'm like, whew, all right, we see it now.

Waiting to be hit is much more painful than being hit. Exactly. Yeah. Once you get hit, like everything else takes over. I can relate to that part. And I have been working on enjoying the peace and settling into that, learning to regulate my responses. My therapist would say, do you search out things that activate you,

that kind of bring you to life and animate you? I don't do that, no. I will search for things that I enjoy, of course. Yeah. You know, so I love roller coasters. I love racing fast cars. Oh, hold on. I used to race motorbikes on the track.

This is my life. I'm at the track once a month. That's all I do. Really? Yes. I have two track bikes. Oh, for real? I have an R1 and have an r1 and then i used to have an r1 that's amazing yeah and then i have a norton built zx4 that's like a moto 2 bike damn look at that that's just epic it's so amazing yeah and then cars too yeah it's all yeah my favorite was a i had a suzuki gsxr 1000 i have one yeah that was my favorite track bike.

That was long ago when I still rode religiously. I did not know this about you. So you're full of fucking shit. You're an arousal junkie. No, no, no. I'm not going to tell you why. I'm going to tell you. I'm going to explain why we love it.

You get on the bike. Yes. There's no time for broad hypervigilance. There is only the turn in front of you. You do not have any option but to think about the turn in front of you. You do not have any option but to think about the turn in front of you and it focuses you. And for me, I have to be in that crazy environment

to get ultra present and to have no racket. And it's so peaceful. Like I think people look at that activity and they think, oh my God, my adrenaline will be this. And I'm like, no, it's very meditative to me. It's just total presence. Right, turn to turn to turn. But for me, that. And I'm like, no, it's very meditative to me. It's just total presence. Right. Turn to turn to turn. But for me, that's why I'm saying that's where I think we diverge.

So it doesn't bring me peace. You know, it brings me focus and flow and challenge and stimulation. But I'm not only seeking that out. So for instance, I'm also the person who is very comfortable seeking out a comfortably warm swimming pool and just wading through that for me is as much fun and joy as racing a motorbike around a track okay taking a walk in an empty city you're in paris you're in new york you are in london just those beautiful cities when it goes like quiet in certain areas walking silence nothing happening i love that too yeah you know do you have you ever done a barefoot sometimes dax walks around cities barefoot yeah certain areas, walking, silence, nothing happening. I love that too. Yeah.

Have you ever done it barefoot? Sometimes Dax walks around the city barefoot. Yeah, yeah. I like to do that. Why would you do that? Because again, he has to add stakes. I don't know. It happened as a lark one time when we walked around London, Eric and I, for about eight miles.

And there was something about transferring to all the different surfaces that made me very aware of the different surfaces we were on. And I just fucking dug it. Do you have like hard feet? No, they're so fragile and sensitive. Shocker I was able to do it because yes, I can't walk across rocks or anything. Oh, okay. So you don't have those, you don't have like crocodile feet.

No, I don't have like the thick Laird Hamilton lifetime with no shoes. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know how you do that. Well, I have to ask a hard question. Sorry. Okay, just earmark motorcycles. No, no, go ahead.

Are you going to be in LA a lot? Yeah, I'm always here working. Why? I'm inviting you. If you ever want to go to the track and read. Oh, maybe I'll join you. I haven't been in a while. Okay.

And I have extra bikes and I think that would be fun. And we'd be two tall men on a motorcycle. No, that would be a lot of fun. Okay, Monica, sorry. No, no, it's okay. I'm going to ask a hard question. It might be coming. Sorry if it is.

Oh, okay. But it's in keeping with this. In relationships, do you live at 10 and 2? Or are you pretty good at living in 6? What does that mean? Are you on a high and a low? Like a deep low and a deep high all the time within the relationship? Or are you good at being sort of level normal?

So I think that's evolved over time. Before I went to therapy, I think my world oscillated between highs and lows in every relationship. I found myself attracted to people who themselves had grown up in worlds where they were used to highs and lows, highs and lows. And so we would exist in that space together, you know, high together, low together, high together, low together. It's fun. Yeah, it is.

It's quite a ride. But more importantly, I feel like it's a powerful connector because there are a few things that connect human beings like traumas and excitements. There are a few things that'll make you remember something than the best or the worst. Nobody doesn't remember the day they had a car accident, but every day when you arrived where you're going, you forgot about those days.

I think it connects you as well in a psychologically strange way. But yeah, over time, what I think has started happening is I've started ebbing and flowing. I don't really live in the twos anymore. I think a lot of the time it's unnecessary and we don't realize that it's unnecessary. When you start to exist in a space where you can have conversations with yourself and you acknowledge what you're feeling and who you are, you start to realize how many of the emotions we have are just triggers from our bodies from the past. You start to realize that these are patterns that you've learned. And in many ways, you know, to use riding motorbikes as an analogy, one of the hardest things to do on the track, you know,

is to change your entry and exits. If you've been doing it the same way over and over and over, it's so hard to just change and break 10 feet later because your body is so used to what you've been doing. There might be a person on the track who's there teaching you or coach or something, and they go like, hey, you're breaking too early or you're breaking too late. To change that is so hard just because it's become motor function now. And I think the same can happen to you as a person and in a relationship. You can get so used to reacting a certain way

because somebody makes you feel a certain way. But I think what I've learned over time is nobody's making you feel a certain way unless like they punch you. If somebody punches you, they made you feel pain. Let's all agree on that. But there are times when you are having a completely different experience to the other person because your interpretation of their actions is completely different. And that's what blew my mind. Once I understood that, I found myself in a space where sometimes it can frustrate people around me because they think I am being almost annoyingly understanding. I genuinely can almost always

understand another person's point of view. And that frustrates some people. Oh, here's a perfect example. The other day I was walking with some friends, another guy and two women, and we walked into an elevator. I walked in first. My friend, she was like, excuse me, chivalry is dead. Why won't you let us walk? She was joking, but she was, you know. And I turned to her and I said, and this is true, well, it's funny you say that because in African culture, not all African cultures, but many African cultures

and predominantly Xhosa culture in South Africa, et cetera, men walk into a room first. Interesting. And the reason men walk into a room first is because there may be danger. Exactly. Why on earth would you send women into a space that you're unfamiliar with so that they encounter whatever may lie there? That's ridiculous.

That's disrespectful. She's like, ladies first. Tell me if there's a snake. Right. You know what I mean? What are you doing? Yeah, yeah. And she was like, yeah, I get it.

But still, no. Then I was like, okay, but what's interesting right now is you're completely invalidating the thing that I've been taught and the way I see the world and you're assuming that yours is the only way I understand where you're coming from and you know what next time I will gladly let you go in first because who knows there might be a fart in the elevator you get to experience it before me you can protect lucky her but then you wouldn't be able to hit the button for the floor first maybe you could work out a deal where I'll let you go in first, but I still get to hit the button. That has helped me to not go between the tens and twos. I'm spending most of my time existing in like comfortable sevens.

I have made the same connection some years ago, and I actually get frustrated. I'm watching a couples therapy show, which is incredible. I love it so much. But I get really frustrated hearing people speak like, well, he made me feel this and she made me feel that and they made me feel. And I'm like, is anyone at all responsible for their feelings? And are you going to proceed through life praying that everyone around you changes or are you going to try to change your response to these things? It just seems so defeatist and like you're not participating. You're just kind of waiting around for people to activate you or trigger you.

It's tough though. It is a balance. There's no denying that many people can make you feel something. You know, when someone gaslights you, they are making you feel something. And what makes it so nefarious is the fact that you don't even realize that they're making you feel it because they're not making it apparent that they're making you feel it. I think there are many situations where people are making you feel something. And I think feelings aren't something we should ever run away from. I think the difference is, to your point, finding the moments where we can take responsibility for what many would consider. for what many would consider, if you looked at it from a divorced perspective,

just take yourself out of it and go, would a neutral party consider this both ways? And if there is that, then I go, then maybe they didn't make me feel that way. Yeah, my counter argument is the exact same behavior aimed at 10 different people will produce 10 different feelings. The notion that there's an objective feeling created by this behavior,

I reject. I think, well, you had a specific reaction to that behavior, but it'd be very different for the next person and the next person. And by the way, here's where my empathy exists is people feel more comfortable that if something objectively made them upset, they don't have to be as vulnerable to say, I'm vulnerable to that that the example i would give is like facebook i guess they had this drop down menu where you could say why you were objecting to a picture that someone posted that you were tagged in and it used to say i'm embarrassed how did it say it used to say like i'm embarrassed and no one would click that and then when they'd write other you could type in what it was and they'd virtually write it's embarrassing so it's like not i'm embarrassed this is an embarrassing photo objectively this is embarrassing i'm not being vain or weak and so when they change the drop

down menu to it's embarrassing just like it's objectively interesting it got clicked 90 of the time it's less vulnerable to make it just like it as opposed to i so when you say like that person makes me feel this way it's an an attempt, I think, to just say objectively anyone would feel this way when that person slams the door that way. That, in fact, is not true. I will react differently than you and Monica will react differently. I agree with that. So the most important thing is to go, how do I react to certain things and what do I have at my disposal? But I think it does ignore the fact that we are interdependent creatures.

And so nothing is without the other. Let's put it this way, maybe. It's almost being able to exist in a world where you say, hey, you made me feel shit. And then I go, but I'll tell you why you made me feel shit. Because you did. You are the person who in this situation is the antagonist. Yeah.

Without you, there was no emotion that existed beforehand. So if a dog comes running up to me, barking like crazy, and it seems like it's going to bite me, it made me afraid. Now someone could go, no, Trevor, you need to ask yourself, why did you feel afraid when the dog came? It wasn't going to bite you. Then I go like, hey, that dog made me feel afraid. I'll tell you why. I wasn't gonna bite you then I go like hey hey that dog made me feel afraid I'll tell you why I wasn't afraid when I walked in this gate I wasn't afraid when I saw the dog I became afraid when the dog charged me and barked at me loudly and seemed like it was gonna attack me now I can then go from that the dog can go that's just how I roll I'm just a dog and then I can say as Trevor huh okay if I'm wanting to now engage with this dog on a regular basis,

I would then go, okay, dog. So I've noticed that when you run at me like this, barking, baring your teeth, it makes me feel like you're going to attack me. Now you say you're not trying to do that, but I'm going to try my best to process this information and not be triggered by it. But I would also hope that you would consider, because you want to be a dog that that's in my life I would hope that you would consider not approaching me like that maybe just like walk up to me calmly and pant and then like lick my hand can you try that yeah and then let's see if we can meet each other halfway and so that's why I'm saying I do think some people are making you feel a certain way this is how I think of it in life everyone who's a stranger in your world

that's where it's like hey hey man, keep it moving. Do your thing, go. Because I can't control it. You cut me off in the traffic, whatever. That's where I agree with you as Dax. I go, that person, you can go like, oh, they made me feel insignificant or they pissed me off.

No, you got pissed off. They don't know you. They're not involved in your world. They're just trying to get to work. That's why they cut you off. They don't care about you, which may piss you off even more. They don't even know you exist.

Yeah, yeah, they didn't see you. Exactly. Or even if they did, they don't care. I mean, they saw a car. They don't care about you, which may piss you off even more. They don't even know you exist. Yeah, they didn't see you. Exactly. Or even if they did, they don't care. No, I mean, they saw a car. They didn't see you. Exactly. Yeah, you're anonymous. This statement, if I could refine it a tiny bit, it's a therapy tool and I believe in it.

Instead of you made me feel this way. It's so simple. When you ran in dog barking, I felt scared. Right. It's so simple. Now the dog's not defensive because now the dog can go oh I'm so sorry that happened that was my I want to lick you face I'm with you there it's the tiniest change that's a communication tactic yes but what it alleviates is now we can progress yeah nobody

wants no one's defending no no nobody wants to be blamed I agree with you right and by the way I didn't make you I did an action and then you had a response that was governed by your history with dogs. Let me ask you this as a random tangential question. Were you blamed a lot as a kid for things that you didn't do? Did you feel like you grew up in an unfair household? I can't say that I was blamed so much, but what I will say, and this is a cancerous trait of my family, is who's responsible was paramount. That had to be figured out ASAP. If something went wrong or someone was hurt, the first priority was not

tending to who was hurt or fixing what was broken. It was who did this? How did this happen? And I get it. My mother, she had three kids, single mom working midnights. There wasn't time. She had to figure out the root cause of everything and fix the root cause she couldn't be dealing with the endless cycle of this behavior so we had to find out right cause it so we could eliminate the causality so it is my knee jerk to things and i see my little sister who's around all the time and i have to fight it like if something goes wrong with the kids yeah i have to go let's worry about who's responsible in a while let's just tend to the emotions right now right do you have an aversion to being blamed? Maybe Monica's better at answering that.

Yeah, you do. Oh, great. Then I accept that. But so do I. I mean, I don't think it's strange that you do. I think most people don't like being blamed. I think the two are separate. Oh.

An aversion versus don't like. I don't think anyone likes being blamed. But an aversion, I'm talking about when you have an allergic reaction up your spine spine when someone goes like you know i'll go along with that so i find there are two types of people in this scenario someone accuses you of something in any way so they go like hey you made a mess and there's some people who go oh did i oh i didn't realize all right whatever yeah and then there are other people who go you made a mess and like i didn't you should have seen this room and have you seen the mess you make that's me there you go i'm the latter yeah yeah are you the former or the latter i'm actually more like this

and i've been working on it for a while wait you're like the latter as well yeah yeah that's why i was austrian okay good it's such a knee jerk so that's why i'm asking you this because i can hear you're so cute sometimes when you're talking honestly you're so cute that sometimes when you're talking it's fucking distracting and i bet you stop women and dates feel this way yeah i bet sometimes they look up in like seven minutes went by and they're like i don't know what the fuck he was saying with that smile ridiculous no it's so true so i think there are moments in that it's a challenge i've issued to myself as well and i do it and i think we could do this in society as a whole we can practice spending less time just hearing what people are saying and try spending more time understanding what people mean. Yeah, that would require a lot of benefit of the doubt,

which seems to be scarce. I think it's necessary. I think I get this from language. In South Africa, we have 11 official languages. I grew up speaking four, five languages with my friends, with my family. And one thing I've come to enjoy and really appreciate over the years is that language is a beautiful tool that helps you get to the granularity of meaning. But what you come to realize when you switch languages is how that meaning can shift. And then you realize, oh, you were speaking another language. So when I would speak to an uncle, a grandmother, a distant relative, whatever, they would say something that is incorrect because they're speaking English

and it's not their first language. They'd say unhoused or almost unhoused. I would go, that's not what they mean. Because I understand, I would translate from the language they originally speak. I'm learning Spanish now very slowly. But even in Spanish, you have to understand like where the negative goes in the sentence

versus in English. And so when somebody who's a native Spanish speaker speaks to me in English now, I go like, ah, I see why you phrased the sentence like that. And I see what you're actually trying to say versus what you said. Yeah, yeah. And so if somebody says to you, Dax,

you made me feel shit. What I try and do is Trevor now is I go just translate it into, I felt shit when you did that. Yeah. Well, by the way, this is another thing that I object to in modern culture is that intentions are irrelevant and they're so relevant because that's what you're doing. You're trying to distill the intention of what someone was saying, despite their shortcomings and their ability to communicate. Look, I agree with you completely, but I think we're screwed. I think we're completely screwed. No, I'll tell you why. Like, I think we live in a world where I don't think the human brain has kept up with our level of connectivity. The human brain is really good

at ascertaining these things. I think the human brain is good at understanding intention and figuring out how safe the body it exists within is. Right now, we meet people at a rate that never like our brains think of how long it took to meet new people back in the day yeah yeah it would travel from one side of the country to the other even america as an idea worked in many ways because the founding fathers for all their faults and everything they had a really interesting idea where they went hey we are at limited risk of like a giant insurrection or civil war type thing if we design the country this way because by the time they march from california it's difficult to sustain it you're gonna meet people things are gonna change by the time you get there you're like whatever but now yes think about how many people

you meet well also you don't know their intentions the best thing is that there was an enormous barrier of entry to object to raise hell now there's none you see something and then the barrier of entry is getting the thing out of your pocket yeah really what it's done is opened up the door for the laziest people in the world to have a voice if i could be super pessimistic about it if you saw who cared about and fought for things in the 60s, you had to get some poster board. You had to get a piece of plywood. You had to make a sign. You had to go take a bus to somewhere to protest. If you had an opinion you wanted to voice, you had to put some fucking effort into it to be heard.

And I think now there's nothing keeping anyone from it. On the one hand, I agree with that. There's pros and cons. I recognize there's pros and cons. I think the bigger issue is one that we forget because we are always tricked into placing the blame on ourselves as individuals. And we don't blame the industries that have created these environments.

Or the system we live in. A simple example is recycling. One of the greatest tricks the plastic industry ever played on us was making it seem like it's all our job to recycle. You recycle your plastic or you're a bad person they literally started this scam plastic is not recyclable the way they say it is they came up with this whole bs it's made with oil like it's from the oil companies but they made it your responsibility hey do you recycle whereas the truth is we should limit which materials you can make things with

which things are disposable and which things aren't and then you just limit it because you have one tiny supply that goes to billions of people but if you shut off that supply we'll make things work we can carry things in different vessels we've done it no people like how am i gonna drink my water we've done it we'll be. And I think the same thing goes for social media. We've been quick to blame every person. But really, if you just look at the little spigot at the top, just look at the faucet that is controlled. It's less the fact that Dax has an opinion. It's less the fact that Monica has an opinion. It's less the fact that Trevor has an opinion. It is more the fact that Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, whatever it may be, takes that opinion and purposefully puts it in front of somebody who does not share that opinion so that they

can be riled up. Yeah. And I think that's what's created more of an issue. If you as Dax tweet, good morning, everybody. What a beautiful day. All the people who are having the same feeling about a beautiful day will not see that message right but if you tweet out woke up this morning i think all short people should die they're a waste of space yeah guess who sees it despite what little goes to me guess monica straight

and those things see it and they go okay monica did you see what he just said and what's amazing to me is I even find myself doing this where I go like even if you don't click it if you don't tweet it if you don't retweet if you don't comment they know how long

you looked at it and that anger that moment where you go I can't believe and then you scroll on but they know and they've got you and they do it again

and they do it again and they do it again stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. plan and they both spent the week in the water you were made to follow your whims we were made to help find a place on the beach with a pool and a waterfall and a soaking tub and of course a great shower Expedia made to travel okay so me making that statement really should have come on the heels of what was a question

about your own career because when i was thinking about that you had done the daily show for seven years and i saw you on a talk show making an analogy that it's like planning a wedding it's a very great analogy of what your day-to-day life was like on the daily show which is like you could probably i don't want to take the words out no no but you basically say like you're picking the guests you're picking the food you're picking the music you're arranging what speeches will be made and then you have the wedding and then that night you go okay we got to make a wedding tomorrow. So I love that analogy. And what I wondered, and you said to feed that inferno, you have to be reading the news in the morning when you wake up,

you have to be reading it at night, you were at parties reading the news. So the comment I just made five minutes ago was really my response to thinking about the fact that you were consuming news for seven years all day long. And I want to know what effect you think that had on you. And my comment about the barrier to participate was this. I think there's an illusion that other people who don't even have a show that they have to fill are also consuming news from morning till night. Oh, interesting. And because they can go to this device and comment on it, they feel like they're participating.

So everyone's, in my humble opinion, way too politicized. They're only really voting once every four years. If they're super involved, they're voting in midterms. So they're voting twice every four years. They're not out in front of city hall. They're not writing emails to their congresspeople. They're not doing anything other than tweeting about their reaction, which makes them feel like they're participating, which keeps the cycle going. I wonder if they had no outlet to respond to the news they watched, if the news itself would have the interest it has. And so I'm just wondering, what was your pre-daily show appetite for news? And then post-show,

what's it been like? And when you've reflected, do you think it had any kind of effect on your life as it was happening? Okay, I'll answer that. I'll just go back to that last part of what you said, because I really liked it. You said people feel like they have an outlet and they have a platform. But again, I go to, I think it's less about the outlet and the platform and more about how they're rewarded for how they respond or react on that platform the incentives the incentives one of the best examples of this is streakers at games baseball games soccer games etc people used to run on the pitch naked yeah all the time

love it they'd run on the field naked and the cameras would chase them and then the grounds people would have to chase them and tackle them and you'd be watching and cheering and then what happened at some point some genius brilliant move said hey whenever this happens whether they're naked or not you don't show them on camera you take the camera you point it away and that's it and all of a sudden the rates of people running on a field dropped yeah because now you didn't get the reward of being the person who has disrupted everything everyone's just really trying to be relevant and to be seen to be seen i like that yeah to be seen to be seen they exist yeah you want to be a part of something you just want to be a part of something you'll do whatever you can to get there and if it means yelling at someone on social media then that's what it means that's what for you. I agree. You can't really blame the people so much because they're doing

what we're all doing. We're just doing it in a different way. Yeah, I'm trying to get all the attention, but I'm honest about it. I know. Okay, so now going back to the daily show side of things, did I notice a difference? Beyond a difference. Tell me. Say more, as you would say. Touche. The greatest con, one of the greatest cons ever played on the American public, and it's growing around the world, is the idea that people need to be continuously plugged into the news. You need to have CNN on 24 hours a day. You need to have your fox news playing in the background you need to have your alerts on your phone god forbid you miss something from the new york times you need to know it immediately what if something happens in yemen i need to do something from

cleveland ohio i need to participate i need to know we don't we need to be informed. We don't. We need to be informed, but we don't need to like mainline news because news by its very nature, unfortunately, is oftentimes the reporting of things that have gone wrong. Yes. Right? That is what it is. The shittiest things that happen around the world today. That is what it is doing. But I remember growing up in South Africa, the news, and I guess this was similar to like an earlier time in America. We had no cable news, no nothing.

We still don't really have that. But the news came on twice a day, one in the morning, one in the evening. And you would watch it for 30 minutes or an hour. And as a child, I would sit there with my parents, hated this because I was like, I want to watch Family Matters and stuff. And now the news. Check out what's happening. Are you kidding me? I'm waiting for Steve Urkel. You're out here showing me stories of what's happening in Sudan. And now the news. Check out what's happening over in. Are you kidding me? I'm waiting for Steve Urkel.

You're out here showing me stories of what's happening in Sudan. Come on. Yeah. But I would sit there. And you know what happened? I was informed. I knew what was happening in Rwanda.

I knew what was taking place in the UK. I knew what was going on in America. I knew what was happening in South Africa. I'm also guessing that that news feed was half local stuff, which is also, when I was a kid, it was like you were learning actually about your community. Once cable news realized it could generate profits,

you know, and I think it was Ezra's brilliant documentary on OJ that showed that was the launch of 24 hour cable news. Once they realized that we were all screwed and I've realized that it's like, I don't know any less than I did before, but I don't live in it. And most importantly, any less than I did before, but I don't live in it. And most importantly, I now provide for myself a level of context that I always felt was missing and I still feel is missing in a lot of the dialogue that people have. People report on a mass shooting while it's happening

and then they just give you incorrect information. Hey, there's a shooter, the shooter's here, they've shot 10 people, actually we're wrong, there were 10 shooters and they shot one person in the building, actually we're wrong, there's no building. The shooter's here. They've shot 10 people. Actually, we're wrong. There were 10 shooters and they shot one person in the building. Actually, we're wrong. There's no building. They're outside the building.

They're in your house. You're the shooter. We just update, updated report. Actually, and it's just like, wait, what just happened here? I know.

What are you doing? Do you know what I mean? Like, what are you doing? They're occupying all of our attention. But that's my problem. Whereas, it's not because of not caring.

It's quite the opposite. If you paused, there's a shooting taking place anywhere. You know who that matters to? The people where the shooting is happening. No one else in that moment, because we cannot do anything about it. All we can do is be afraid or enraged. What they can do is tell you about it once they know all the facts. So, welcome to the news. Yesterday, there was a shooting in this place it was this person turns out it wasn't doing this good news and here's all the information that you may need to know and then we go i'll go a step further as there's also potentially the streaker analogy

to be implied here which is i don't know if we should be even doing it it's not slowing it down it doesn't help us to know. They all know glory's on the other side. In their warped view of glory, they know their name will be all over the world. Yeah. And I think that's the same motivation as the streaker. Do you remember, you know what I always think of

when I see these mass shoots and everyone puts their faces? First of all, I don't think the news should ever put their face on TV. No. They don't deserve it. Or their name. I don't think their name's not relevant. I agree with you there. Why are we giving these people, you're memorializing them.

No face, no name, no nothing. Once you've caught the, that's it. Because exactly what you're saying, you are creating this perverse incentive to be seen. And you know what it always reminds me of? You've watched Mad Max, the reboot, right? Oh yeah. Remember what they say whenever they're spraying their stuff? I don't remember. They spray like the silver thing and then they say witness

me oh that's what they're saying right oh i like that and then they jump off the cars and it's like ah witness me yeah yeah see me see me hey mom look see me we're all kids oh god that's so sad truly i know mom look i'm stepping over this pencil on the ground. Wow. You sure did. You made it. Look, I climbed on this branch now, Mom. Okay, we see.

I have a question, though, because this just came up on one of our other shows. We have a show with a person who's a very informed journalist. And we recorded the other day, and she was obviously very down. And I said, what's up? And she said, I'm just really affected by what's going on in the world. And I said, I understand that. It's horrible. Why are you still looking at it?

And she was like, we have to be informed, which I was like, you can be informed without just inundating yourself with all the horrific images. just inundating yourself with all the horrific images. But to her, she thinks that it's too privileged for us, because we live here, to turn our heads and not have to look because they have to live it. And I think at some point in my life, I would have agreed. And now I just, I don't see what our sadness is doing for them. How's it helping?

Right. What do you think? I can see both arguments. And I think they both depend on what you're trying to achieve. If you are struggling emotionally, and you're trying to find a moment of reprieve, then I don't think you should be looking. I think you should be taking a break and you should be taking a moment. For yourself. Yeah. But we should never deny the power and the impact of imagery to get people who may not be affected to care about something. Were it not for the images taken during everything that happened in Alabama, would the civil rights movement have been where it got to in America? I doubt it. hit with water hoses and the dogs. I don't know that it would have gotten as far. And so there is unfortunately a necessary side of people seeing things that make them aware of a situation.

However, there is also a world where some people wish to be almost in a state of constant self-flagellation because your awareness doesn't change between picture one and picture 50. Right, exactly. You don't need further proof that you're appalled by this my issue with that is your example of the civil rights movement of course but also there's action to be taken by a citizen you're gonna go vote for somebody that is either

pro-civil rights or against civil rights you're also gonna you can boycott the diner that's not letting black folks sit there there's things you do. Many of these things across the world, you don't have a role in. There's almost an arrogance to the notion that you have a role in it. When actually you consume it, you're upset. You might argue with a neighbor on Twitter, but you've not done anything. You've not flown there. You've not sent money. You've not appealed to a congressperson to increase spending. Now, if you're the person who gets activated by that and then goes and creates change, keep at it.

But if you're someone that's consuming it and wallowing it and fighting with your neighbors over it, there's nothing productive about it. Minimally, we could say you're not impacting the situation whatsoever. I don't think that that's true. If you look at some of the biggest movements that have taken place over the past decade, many of them just started on social media. I mean, the Arab Spring is a great example. They were on Twitter going, let's meet in this square in protest.

That was an actionable outcome. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you there. The people that were fighting in Cleveland over it. Exactly. They had no impact on that. I hear you you there that's again where we go to i always want to be careful to not live in a world where i'm telling people how to feel or how to act i would rather be in a world where i'm saying we need to regulate how the platforms incentivize how people act or don't act so i don't think there's anything wrong with anyone

feeling for anyone anywhere in the world. You may go, hey man, I've seen what's happening in Sudan. And I think as Americans, we have a responsibility in some way, shape or form to assist them. You have a right to feel that as an American, you have a right to feel that as a human being. I don't think that that's a bad thing at all. Oh, I love that. But if you're fighting the person in the grocery store that has no power in the Sudan. But this is exactly what I'm saying. Again, we go back to, unfortunately, it's that circular, it's back to what we've believed the efficacy is. I think we're currently living in a world where we have way more information than we've ever had access to.

The constant paradox I exist within is understanding that the world has never been in a better place ever. There has never been a single better time that we know of where it was better to be alive as a human being. Yeah, less starvation, less disease, less death by- Everything.

Yes. Infant mortality, poverty, all these things. However, as that curve has gradually gotten better, the curve of how much information we have has exponentially gotten higher. So now you are finding out day on day, your house is being repaired, you're plugging leaks, you're painting over cracks,

things are going well. But while this is happening, you're doing one repair a day and every day you're getting a hundred reports on termites, on mold, on foundational issues, on retaining walls, and your brain is going, this house is worse and worse. But really, really what you've done is you've just flipped the level of information and how you get it. And so I think that's where we're in trouble as people is we then feel powerless. And when we're powerless, one of the things we can do is just fight with the closest person to make it feel like we did something because then it feels like we helped.

I saw Dax Shepard at Trader Joe's and I told him, I said, you say homeless one more time. I swear to God, Dax. Oh, I told him, honey. And yeah, I made a difference. He won't be saying that anytime soon. I told him and I walked out of that CVS and oh man, and then a homeless guy came up to me. I mean, an unhoused guy came up to me and those people, oh, they need to do something

about them. But I told Dex. Oh, I told him. It's easier because you feel like you have more power, I think. Yeah. Forgive me for repeating this, but I majored in anthropology. So for me, everything goes back into the anthropological lens, which is we were designed and evolved over 300,000 years to live with 100 other people. So in your lifespan with 100 other people, you might witness a murder or two.

You might hear of some atrocity towards a child, one or two. In a day, you can consume more atrocity than you were designed to consume in your lifetime. That's the issue. To your point, you keep saying our brains are not evolved to function this way, and they're not.. So at some level, you just have to take responsibility for the capacity you have as a human being. And you have to maybe address, is this over the capacity for me? For your own health. Yeah. I'm not telling you what to do.

No, no, no. I'm with you completely. Yeah. And I think it's unfair and unfortunate that it happened so quickly, just like food, that we haven't had the chance. It's like we always tell people, hey, eat healthy. What we don't say is most of the food that's out there is going to trick your brain into thinking that it's good for you and you're going to crave it. This is beyond your control sometimes. And the taste will dissipate really quickly as designed by the chemist. And that's why Ozempic is actually, in a weird way, this miracle drug.

It's combating the other science. Yeah. It's literally crashing all of the nefarious things we've created for so long. Yeah. Going back to what you were saying about your friend, if we can just get to a space as people where we're all taught to check in on ourselves,

I think we can find a way to mitigate how quickly our technology has evolved beyond us. Just taking moments. Like I wish everyone was taught, first thing in the morning, take 10 minutes before you look at your phone, before you do anything. Just take 10 minutes to talk to yourself. Set a timer. Just go like, how do I feel?

Did I dream about anything? What do I want to do today? What have I been feeling lately? Is this the same thought I keep having every day? Why do I have that? All right, let's get rid of that. And then do it again at night, just 10 minutes before you go to bed. Just sit there and go, huh, okay.

You know, I think of it like a computer. Whenever you turn a computer on or whenever you turn it off, it just thinks for a moment. Right, it gets its shit together before it starts up. When it starts up, it just goes like, wait, wait, wait. What am I trying to do? Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm trying to load that. Okay, okay, I'm ready. I'm ready now. And then when it shuts down, it's like, hold on, hold on a moment. When it starts up, it just goes like, wait, wait, wait. What am I trying to do? Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to load that. Okay, okay. I'm ready.

I'm ready now. And then when it shuts down, it's like, hold on. Hold on a second. Hold on. Okay. What was I doing? Okay, cool, cool. Okay, okay, okay.

I can turn off. We're no different in that way. But what we're doing is we're turning on or turning off our computers instantly with no preparation for what may come or what has come. No, you turn it on and start trying to load up a video package. You know, like the most labor-intensive thing for the computer. You know, rendering a video file as soon as it's on. Now, I guess you're, what, you're two years out of Daily Show?

No, this is one year. Forgive my ignorance. No, no, no, please. Are you good at measuring time? The worst. I'm terrible. I don't know when a thing happened. I don't know how long it was or wasn't.

I just remember the images. I know 93 when I graduated high school. I know 2000 when I graduated. I know when I got my first acting job and I know when my kids were born. So everything's just in between those yardsticks. Otherwise, no. When we start the show, you know that.

I know it'll be six years on Valentine's Day, but I don't know what year on Valentine's Day. Yeah. But I don't know what year that makes. 2018. Okay. Okay, now I got nervous, but yeah. Colbert, when you were being interviewed by him, he's like, we had dinner spring of 2017. Or he said a month.

Yeah. And I was like, oh my God, I can't do that. I don't know how people. Yeah, it's beyond me. Okay, so I don't want to drag you through your trauma, but your life story is so interesting. So I guess I would just encourage people to read your book because it's really, really. I appreciate that. An incredibly moving and dynamic and complicated childhood. I mean, it's crazy to me to think someone alive today actually was a child in apartheid.

For some reason, that seems like that should have ended by the time you were born in 84 right i guess i saw this is so embarrassing but i'm not too embarrassed i was eight years old my introduction to apartheid was it was this plot line in lethal weapon yes we didn't know i was so happy about that yes i remember watching that that was one of my favorite lethal weapons ever of course and so i was watching that at whatever that was eight years old nine years old and i'm like hold on they still have that so to know that it ended in 91 and you would have i guess been seven years old yeah and the notion that you were i find this very fascinating that in the strata system there was black white and colored and you were in this no man's land strata with ding, ding, ding, the Indians.

Oh, look at that. Yeah. That sounds like from another century. It really is. It's something that you would find in a dystopian novel where you have a society where everybody is broken up, but on a granular level, because the mistake people make is they think it was just black, white. No, no, no, no, no, no.

In South Africa. I write this in the book is apartheid was such a genius, evil system. I often think to myself, I go, man, I wish we could find a way to like distill the power and the ingenuity that racists have. Can we get you working on cancer? Seriously. You have a great mind. It's not for the lazy.

How did you think of this? I would just like ignore the people I don't like you yeah systematic they designed a system where they studied systems of racism

around the world so they looked at America and its segregation and they're like okay Jim Crow redlining all of this

and they're like hmm could be better not a bad start they went to Australia they looked at how they dealt with the Aborigine population. They were like, oh, all right, mean, but not effective enough. They went to the Netherlands and they're like, all right, let's study.

And that's where the word apartheid comes from, is from the Netherlands. And then they were like, okay, I think we have figured out what to do and how to do this. They put it all together. I think with like a dash of hitler's policies if i remember correctly what year was this 40s or 50s you see again you've asked me for years yeah yeah sorry yeah 50s 60s actually somewhere more there oh okay i think so again we'll look it up terrible years and then they designed the system and they went if you're white you have access to everything you can do everything but this is what people don't even realize is it affected you on every level so if you're white you could live in certain areas

so black was the bottom of the totem pole think of it that way and as your skin tone gets lighter and lighter and closer to white and your features get closer to white your life gets better you can live closer to the city you can go to better schools you You can get better jobs. You can have a better education. Black people at some point weren't allowed to learn math or science. They were taught agriculture. They were taught vocations. And you move up the list. In prison, people were treated differently.

So white prisoners were given long pants and long shirts. And then black prisoners were given short pants and short sleeve shirts imagine this even when you're prisoners they go like yeah but you're not the same the same yeah you're not the same piece of shit the food you were given in the prison was even different so you would get like a piece of white bread a bigger piece tea etc because you're white it is amazing how deep and detailed they went into this. And they created a system where everyone fits into a box. The strangest one and the weirdest one, by the way, was Chinese people were labeled as same status as pseudo black in a way, maybe around Indian-ish, but like black. But then Japanese people were given honorary white status.

Oh, wow. Sure, but like black. But then Japanese people were given honorary white status. Oh, wow. Sure, sure, sure. Because the apartheid government wanted the technology and the cars and everything. And they were like, all right, you guys are honorary white. Yeah, Toyotas are pretty dependable. You don't have to enter the tree, which is wild. China doesn't have any cars yet.

But it shows you how arbitrary the system is, you know? And it was illegal for your mom and dad. My mom's a black woman, Xhosa woman, South African. So beautiful. I saw videos of her when I was watching the 60 Minutes piece. Thank you very much. And yeah, my father's a white man from Switzerland. And they got together.

This was against the law. And then my mom wanted to have a child. And she wanted to have it with my dad. And then I always ask her about this. I'm like, did you consider the fact that I would come out? She's like, I don't know how you'd look. You know what I mean? She's like, come on. I don't know how you'd look. Because also, it's not like it was happening so readily that you consider like the fact that I would come out? She's like, I don't know how you'd look. She's like, come on.

I don't know how you'd look. Because also it's not like it was happening so readily that you were like, I know what this turns into. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if it's illegal and then you're born, is it just like giving it up? So my gran told me, and I didn't know this growing up, thank goodness, that had they ever discovered me,

I would have just been taken away from my family. Wow. I would have been put into like an orphanage type thing, or I would have been adopted by what they call a colored family. So someone of my skin tone. Good luck finding the pool is small where you're going to land if that's the option. Surprisingly not. It's not.

So this is a crazy interesting thing. In South Africa, because these systems were created on something that existed for so long, in America, the word colored is from a bygone era and it's a derogatory term. But in South Africa, colored people are a culture. There's nothing wrong with the word in South Africa. And what it was is a group of people who were the descendants of the traders who came in and the natives of the area. And through either marriage or through rape or whatever it

was over time there was enough of a population of just literally like mixed people. Did they have their own towns? Yeah colored people speak their language in a very particular way they have their own cuisine they have their own culture and it's a very proud and beautiful culture and so from this horribleness came this beautiful world. People know me in South Africa. They know my family. They know my history. But when I was growing up, many people would assume that I was colored. Right. And I'm not colored. I'm colored by color, but not by culture, which is complicated. And so then even they would be like, what the hell is wrong with you? And I'll be like, oh, well, long story. My dad, my mom, it's a whole thing. And you were being actively

hidden by your family, basically. Yeah. of makes sense if it's just illegal. And his grandpa called him Master. Yeah, which I thought was just a nickname. Yeah. Wow. So I thought it was like a cute little... Giving you arbitrary status to be cute. As a joke.

So he's just walking and be like, Master, how are you today, Master? How was your morning? I'll be like, it was great, Grandpa. Yeah, thanks for calling me that. That's cool. It's like fun. Yeah, exactly. It's like calling a little kid boss or something. Yes, boss, it was great, Grandpa. Yeah. Thanks for calling me that. That's cool. It's like fun. Yeah. Exactly.

It's like calling a little kid boss or something. Exactly. Yes, boss. Hello, Mr. Man. Yeah. Explain this to me. Again, I got to kind of fast forward through your trauma, and I hate to not give it the proper lead up in time, but your first stepdad was violent towards you and mom, and then

they got divorced after four years. And then when your mother remarried, he came and shot your mom in the leg and in the head. Yeah. Ugh. I mean, just fuck. Fuck, fuck, fuck. How did he only get three years? Is apartheid involved in that sentencing?

No, no. This is a black man shooting a black woman. This is unfortunately a symptom of a system that I think we see all over the world. And that is that women aren't protected in the way that they should be. And them being black on top of it. Yeah. Our judicial systems have been designed to protect the people who created them. And there's no denying that men for a long time have skirted on this whole idea of, you know, when women say something, they'll

be like, but what did you do? What did you say to him? What'd you wear? Did did you make him angry i don't think your husband would just hit you come on i mean what was dinner that night was it delicious why don't you go home and talk to him come on lady it just sends such a clear message we don't give a fuck about you yeah it does unfortunately how do you deal with male authority figures i don't understand why they would be different to female authority figures for me they're different because my mother was very loving and kind and my stepdads were atrocious and they came in and enacted a new policy that made no sense to me and they were a new boss so when i have bosses and male figures and teachers i go oh here's another fucking man with some

program i gotta follow that is arbitrary makes no sense and fuck you i'll die before i'll participate and it's to my detriment i've had the hardest time with like male authority figures I got to follow that is arbitrary and makes no sense. And fuck you. I'll die before I'll participate. And it's to my detriment. I've had the hardest time with like male authority figures. Huh? No. You don't have any of that? No, no, no.

I've actually always enjoyed authority figures. Really? Interesting. I'm just like, okay, this is interesting. You've got rules and you've got like a plan. Let's see where this thing goes. Oh, wow. I'm envious of that.

What I hate is unfairness. Authority figures that abuse their power i don't care for that at all police managers you name it that i don't care but it doesn't trigger any childhood no no no for me not at all i'm aspiring to that were you there when he came and did that no i feel like i was but no no my two younger brothers were there which were the children of yeah yeah yeah So they watched their father. Yeah. So I always say we're all traumatized, but I think I got the least traumatic experience.

And it was my younger brother who saved my mom's life. I don't even know how he did this. He threw her into the passenger seat of the car and raced her to the hospital. She wouldn't have survived if it wasn't for him. How old was he? I'm going to guess and say he was between 14 and 16. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert

if you dare. This is gonna be my last run at some similarities. So far I'm 0 for 2, which is great. this this will be a strike out go well in the 60 i love 60 minutes by the way it's my church been watching since i was a year old my grandparents watched it right i love it so i remember seeing the segment that you were on before i re-watched it today is a great great segment leslie stall's coming at you hard to talk about relationships you're not having it you're like I don't want to talk about who my girlfriend is or anything. And I

totally respect that. I don't want to know who you're dating at all. But I did wonder, this is my projection, because I had a mom who had multiple husbands and they would go, and then it'd be us again. And we'd be kind of the partners. And then a new guy would roll up and then we weren't the partners for a while. And then we were the partners. I think it gave me a kind of built-in commitment phobia because I was already married. I was married from day one. I had this single mom and a lot of her emotional wellbeing depended on me. And I think I felt the weight of that. And when I got out of that, I think we're similar. I talked to my mom nonstop. I'm so close to her. She's the love of my life.

But also I was like, I already got, I don't want to sign up for another lifetime commitment. Cause I already had this one that started really early and is a little cumbersome. And I just curious, I don't want to know who you're dating or anything, but I wonder, does that bring at all true to your experience so you are oh for three but i will say this let's let's go let's start with you struck out maybe we'll make it like an 0.25 okay so where we do overlap is this i definitely grew up and where i exist on my scale is i definitely grew up in a world where i was always ready for something to disappear or to go away, but not because of that. I think it's because I grew up in a world and in a space where things were constantly changing

around me. And so it's interesting when you say it that way, what I struggled with, and it's something that I continuously try and work on because it hasn't just gone away overnight. I don't have commitment issues, but I will have issues working through an incessant and persistent issue with a person. You as Dax, you have an issue. You rev your motorbike really loudly whenever you come home. Let's deal with this. You say as Dax, I'm trying to change this. Okay, Dax, cool. What are you going to do to change it well what i'll do is i'll turn off the bike at the gate and then i'll roll it in okay dax cool we're doing this tomorrow comes what happened dax yeah well man you know just damn when the pipes man the pipes just got me

okay dax cool bam bam bam wow it seems like you sorry trev sorry i'm so sorry it's just that sometimes when you look at me outside the window, you make me want to rev the bike because I'm like, oh, someone's looking at me, so I should rev. Well, you're so tall, you're triggering. I got to exert some dominance. And so what I really struggle with is I'm a very patient person when I believe that somebody is learning and changing. I'm terrible at dealing with the same problem from the same person over and over again. And I understand from all my friends who are married and from therapy and all these things that that is probably what you're going to be doing.

Right. But man, my brain struggles with that. I can relate. I have said the words out loud to someone I loved. I will be here forever if I know you're engaged in the fight. But if you have accepted this, I'm out. I can't spend the rest of my life like this. If I know you're engaged in the fight and I believe that, I'm patient. But I know exactly what you're talking about. I have to believe the person's truly engaged in the fight. They have some action they're taking to confront this. Yeah, because this is how I see it. I think we want to be in a space as people, especially when we're in a relationship, I'm under

no illusion that anyone is going to be perfect. I'm not perfect. I'm far from perfect. However, I would hope that I'm the kind of person who increases the amount of time between my sort of infractions, between my breakouts. If you think of them like skin, it's like, all right, all right, let's try and minimize these breakouts. I see that I do this. I'm going to try and not do not do. And then I think in a good relationship, what you're doing is you're going, okay, I see that you're putting in that work. And when it does happen, all right, you lost your cool with that.

Or you argued about that unnecessarily, or you would inconsiderate. Okay. But I think sometimes what happens, and this is tough, I'll give you one. We will be one for four together. How about I throw this at you, please? If you grow up in an environment that is unhealthy, if you grow up in an environment where you don't have the role models or the imagery that gives you an idea

of what you're trying to strive for, how do you then know when you have hit it? You do not. And so unfortunately, most of us go for what is familiar. And if you've grown up in a dysfunctional world, in a dysfunctional home, in a dysfunctional family, dysfunction is familiar. Yeah. The unknown is scary. Not even scary. Sometimes it's just like, people say, there are no sparks. Well, that's the 10 and 2. Right? You're like, there are no sparks. Sparks don't fly. And so that's the thing where I think you

and I grew up in this world where you go, oh, I know this. Oh yeah, there's something about, but you don't know what it is. And the next thing you know, you're in the cycle. And so I think it's quite the opposite. I've committed many times to those cycles. It's not that I'm afraid of commitment. It's like, no, I'm quite the other way around. Over time, what I've come to learn though is I have to practice grace. It's interesting. This is a conversation I had with my mom the other day. We love sharing learnings and new things, and she's always evolving. And I really love that about her as a person. She said, what have you learned recently? And I said, I've learned the thing my mom and I share. I said, we need to stop falling in love with people's potential and learn to fall in

love with who they are. It does not mean that we won't encourage them to be potentially as great as they could be, but it does mean that we're willing to accept the possibility that we will exist in this state with this person for eternity, however long that may be. And I think that's something that has really freed me up in life is understanding, and I think we don't do this enough as people, we see a glimpse of what we like in another person.

We see moments. We go, oh, Dax is great. I just feel like if he was a little shorter, he'd be a better guy. And you know what? He probably would be. I think if I spend enough time with him, I think I can get him to be shorter.

I think I can make him a little bit shorter. And Dax, every now and again, will bend down. That's right. He'll crouch. And you go like, oh, there he is. I did it. There he is, my short king. And every time you'll crouch, the person goes, I knew it.

There he is. But the truth is, you're tall. At some point, you get tired of crouching. You stand. And when you stand, the person goes, oh. And then you go, look how long I crouched. And now that begins. Whereas it's a little more boring boring going back to where we started it's a little less 10 yes six is not as

fun as 10 but it's much better than two exactly and you go i actually like you exactly like this and the things that are terrible about you don't affect me i've tried to learn this as trevor i like writing lists for myself to know myself, like just to try and understand. There's certain things that literally don't bother me at all. Right. If you're late, you will never phase me. I come from Africa. Time is a concept that was invented by people from cold countries.

We don't care. It's funny you bring this up, because do you know what happened yesterday? Was this brought to your attention? No. So I was recording at Spotify. I do a Formula One podcast out of there. Oh, nice.

And there's a bunch of people there in the lobby, which is never the case. That place is dead empty. I'm like, what the hell's going on here? Oh, Trevor's coming and he's recording with The Rock. So everyone's out. I was like, oh, this is fucking great. I'm interviewing Trevor tomorrow. I finished my show and then someone goes, Trevor will be here in 20 minutes. Do you want to hang and say hi to him? And I go, yeah, yeah, I will actually. I'll hang. I'll help them clean up. Then 20 minutes went by. And then someone came and said, we just found out he hasn't left his house.

And I went, okay, I'm getting the fuck out of here. They didn't tell me you were there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's not. No, no, you don't owe me an apology. Oh, I wasn't apologizing. I just thought I didn't know you were there. Yeah.

No, no, you weren't meeting me. But it's funny you would say time is. Well, I want to add something. Not about time. Hold on. Did that defend you in that story I just told? No, no, you weren't meeting me. But it's funny you would say time is... Well, I want to add something. Not about time. Hold on. Did that defend you in that story I just told? No. It was interesting, though.

Okay, tell me. Because I just saw the micro-adjustment to your face. I just want to know if I offended you or something. It's funny how hyper-vigilant you are. No. So I like driving myself in LA. I love driving myself anywhere. Same.

And it's funny. They said, can we get a driver to bring you to the podcast you know that building is really weird it is it's nowhere yes that's right the gps doesn't take you to where it is it's weird yeah the address is in the street you need to be on the construction is so anyway they go like we'll drive i'm like i don't want they like driver driver they send the driver the driver doesn't find me doesn't have the right address for some reason that so the whole morning is just like, you know? Yeah.

And you're like, I knew I should have fucking driven. Why did he say yes? I wasn't even angry. I was just like, hey, man, your driver's lost. Finally, we're in the car. We're driving there. Driver can't find Spotify. Sure.

It's a hard place to find. So when you said that, I remembered the moment where I jumped out of the car. What area is that, by the way? It's downtown. Is it downtown? The arts district. Yeah. Okay. Once you can get there, it's pretty radical, but I had to drive there seven times before I could just drive there. It's very confusing. It's not intuitive. But then you hit that one street that's not their address, but where the parking garage entrance is and you

go, boom, I'm here. And it feels fantastic. It's kind of old and bricky. Yeah. So that was, you just reminded me, I was like. was like okay good because then I would have taken that person like oh god I offended him and he thinks I say now I'm implying he's late and I went through

a whole cycle so I'm glad we cleared that he also needs people's approval so if he feels like he's losing it you right oh that's probably part of it

I think hypervigilance is interlinked you cannot separate it from approval it is not just the hypervigilance because approval is a form of safety and hyper

vigilance is only looking for safety yeah that's really true you know so dax was now looking for me to throw something at him yeah i appreciate you asking i would have hated to leave you feeling like that yeah well i've learned to ask by the way oh because as smart as i think i am i'm so fucking wrong when i fill in the blanks. When I create a story to explain what weird thing happened, 90% of the time I'm wrong. And so that right there, how am I going to guess that you had a driver that you drove here? So I'm not assuming you didn't drive there yesterday. I don't know any of this. So I'll tell you the narrative. Yeah.

I'm like, hmm, wasn't my place to jump in on the Africa time thing. That was me being entitled. And then he thinks I'm saying black people are late. And now I really shit the bed on this. And now he fucking hates me and thinks I'm a racist. You would have left. That's funny. I would have bought into that narrative at least 50%. Let me get rid of all your fears right now.

I already thought you were racist. So nothing changed. Nothing changed. We're good. We're good. Nothing changed, Dax. Wonderful. It's interesting. let me ask you

this because i've had to work on a lot of that for some of that work it's interesting that you say you've learned to ask but have you learned to tell yourself something else there's been some improvement but it's still a big liability i know it's a big blind spot of mine you know i know that i'm very creative and imaginative and i have insecurities so i will run all the options through that broken fucking circuitry. And I'll likely come out with a bad story. Have you struggled with boundaries? No,

because back to the thing I asked you about the stepdads. And I think a problem with me with women in the past is I so disagreed with what was happening around me that when I turned 18, I was like, that is the end of all that. This is the Dak Shepard show for the rest of my life, whether it's good or bad. I just will never be the victim of someone else's plan. I will be making the choices, whether I fail or I get hurt from them, they'll be my choices.

And so I think that's a dangerous way to go through. That's how I explain that. I don't even think I answered your question, but that's what it made me think of. I'm trying to understand it from what you're saying, because that's something I had to work on. Anyone I know who's grown up in a violent home or in a violent society, that hypervigilance, one of the things I've learned is you can't always rely on asking everyone, hey, did I or did I not? Because there are many times when you won't be able to ask the question. And so you have to find a way.

And I was just wondering that on your side. I still have moments where I'll have exactly what you had, where I'll go like, oh, damn. And then like three days later, I'm like, ah. And then it's like, I'm almost like George Costanza, where I'm like, I should have said that to them. I'm not as plagued by it as I've gotten older and a little more confident and like myself

a little more. I don't assume the person's going to assume the worst about me because I'm not assuming the worst about me. So I think as that's elevated, it's lessened. Some of the stories I believed when I was younger, especially if they were work related or anything I cared a lot about, they were insane. Some of the conspiracies that I thought were afoot. But some of them were right, weren't they? You know, probably 10% were right. Some of the conspiracies I thought were afoot. But some of them were right, weren't they?

You know, probably 10% were right. Okay. That low, my hit rate was way higher. It was. My hypervigilance hit rate was way higher. Like, for instance, every time somebody cheated on me in a relationship, I was right. My hypervigilance was so high. But it's dangerous.

No, I know. So I would say my accuracy is quite high in that situation. Or when shit's about to happen, I'm almost clairvoyant. Yeah. I had a moment. I was doing a movie 18 years ago in New Mexico. There is nothing in Albuquerque that is open past midnight other than strip clubs. And we were shooting nights.

I would tell you if I love strip clubs. I actually don't. But we were shooting nights all week. And so on the weekends, we had to maintain that schedule. Well, there's nothing to do. Similar for comedians, by the way, but carry on. One of the only places that has food that late, by the way, but carry on. Exactly. Yeah, carry on.

So I'm in one, and I'm with one of my best friends who's producing the movie I'm in, and then a third person, the publicist from the movie. And out of nowhere, I just stand up. I stand up. Oh! And they go, what's going on? And I go, I thought there was a fight.

I sit back down. 30 seconds later. Fuck me. Fuck you, motherfucker. Two dudes stand up and start swinging. Like I was somehow 30 seconds ahead of that. I don't know what pheromone was happening. You probably saw something.

Something told me there was a fight i was 30 seconds ahead of it and they were like what the fuck just happened are you like living 30 seconds ahead so there are many times where it's like it's spooky how good they are but if i'm filling in a story about someone else why they did something i'm generally not great at okay i knew they cheated okay why did they cheat okay and now I'm liable to spin a web that's based solely on my insecurities. Got it. I think it's good that you ask. I think it's a really positive thing because I was just talking about this, about you.

I was giving you a compliment behind your back. Oh my God, please tell me. That I think you're a person because of your tall stature and your white skin and your alpha energy. stature and your white skin and your alpha energy you could go through life without giving a fuck about what other people think and not trying to get their approval and just being loud and you and i think it's a really wonderful thing that you care thank you you're welcome that was beautiful wonderful i really appreciate that that was really nice yeah wait i want to add one more thing sorry yeah i'm done with compliments about you but back to tell them about some of my Beautiful. Wonderful. I really appreciate that. That was really nice. Yeah. Wait, I want to add one more thing. Sorry.

Done with compliments about you. But back to. Moving on. Tell them about some of my character defects. No, no, no. I just wanted to add something that might be helpful when you were talking about trying to pick people not for their potential. Because I think the short, tall analogy you gave is so dead on. Because I do this too all the time. And my

therapist, she's been hammering in the idea of limitations. She's like, that isn't something they're choosing. Whatever it is that's driving me crazy, or they say they'll fix this, they say they'll fix this, it's not getting fixed, it's not getting fixed. It's actually for me to then understand, okay, they can't fix it. They can't be shorter. That's asking something that they just can't do. It's a limitation that is not getting fixed. So then it's up to me, is that person worth the limitation? And it's not hoping that they'll do anything different. They're who they are. And is it okay for me to be with that version of them? And they may become somebody else, but the change may be so gradual that you might not be able to stick around for that.

They may surprise you, but you can't hope for that. No, no, I agree with you. Everyone has the ability to change. It's just the change may not be. You almost have to ask yourself if this is as good as it ever gets. That's what I mean. Am I still interested? That's all I say all the time.

Real simple question. If this is as good as it ever gets, am I still interested? That's all I say all the time. Real simple question. For instance, if I go on a date, I tell people now from the beginning, hey, here are some of my worst traits. Here are some of the things that people have told me in relationships are trash about me. Here are some of the things that you'll think are terrible. Maybe they affect you.

Maybe they don't. People like will giggle. And it's amazing to me how much people don't listen to people. I remember someone said this to me a long time ago in life. They said, when someone tells you who they are, believe them. Yeah, this is a powerful, you know, and it's so amazing to me how many times I'll tell people, I'll go like, Hey, here are the things about me that may piss you off. At some point, I juggle knives every night. This is how I roll. And these are things, some of them I'm trying to change by the way,

because I don't think that they are benefiting the life that I wish to live however there are some things where I'm like I'm sorry I don't like getting angry to show that I care about something you may think I'm being apathetic I'm not right but I don't like being the person who's like god damn it no if you get angry I don't need to get angry but doesn't mean that I don't care some people may perceive it as me not caring well because in their household that's how you exactly so all these things i genuinely try and do it and i think it was one of my favorite philosophers elaine de botten who talked about that and he said when we date we present the best image of ourselves when we meet people it's like a job interview and then it just becomes a discovery of all the worst and so what i've tried to do now in life is i go start with the worst

start with the most honest. And then overachieve. Or even just be. I used to dress up to go on a date. And now I go the way I was dressed that day. Yeah, good. And I'm like, hey, man, this is because some days I'm going to look like this. Yeah, for sure.

Sometimes I don't even know if I put my colors together right. I'm experimenting with this jacket. And yeah, sometimes my hair is looking shabby and sometimes it's not. And you're going to find me on the day the way you find me because I wish to be accepted for the days that I am like that. And I wish to learn to accept you that way as well. Yeah, you're right. It's an urge for both participants to change. So one is like how you're accepting and what you're expecting. And then on your side of the street, it's like, tell people who you are. Yeah. Just start with who you are. Then you're accepting and what you're expecting. And then on your side of the street, it's like, tell people who you are.

Yeah. Just start with who you are. Then you're not hiding from anything. You don't have to cover anything up. Yeah, we're constantly discovering that we're not for each other because we all tricked each other. Yeah, we got the commercial version. Then we got the toy home from the fucking store. It needs batteries.

I didn't know in the commercial they didn't put batteries in. You didn't tell me you might need a sim, might require a sim. Oh man, I'm choking. There's small parts. You didn't tell me about your need a sim might require a sim oh man i'm choking the small parts you didn't tell me about your small parts and i'm choking on them well trevor we could have spent this last hour and a half talking about your new show what now but my hunch is this is your new show yeah it's a version of it i don't mean that your show no no no i really take that as a compliment and i thank you because i understood what you were saying. My intention? Yeah, I did. I did. And I think what you were

saying was my podcast is going to be me applying my mind to the world and to the situations that we're in. Everyone, as you said, because you majored in anthropology, your lens is filtered in a certain way and you have fascinations. I've always been somebody who likes connecting dots. I've always been somebody who likes explaining and understanding the world around me. And so I think my show is going to exist more in a space of looking at either what has happened or what is happening and how to think about it as if it were in hindsight, even though we're currently experiencing it. Some of it may be political. Some of it may be news related. Some of it might not be, but I enjoy existing in that space where we oftentimes don't take a moment to process

because it is happening. And so we react. And when we react, we regret. I just want to make a show where you can sit and go like, all right, what do we actually think about this? What are we trying to do about this? How do we feel about this? I'm going to give myself a fifth pitch, even though they don't exist in baseball, because I'm 0 for 4. Well, one was a ball. Let's go with a ball. Okay. Okay. One was a ball. I wonder if like me, reactions were the enemy. That's what caused violence, right? Reactions, hotheadedness, emotional responses. I have the same predilection.

I'm constantly like, guys, yes, 9-11 was horrific. This was the worst day of my life in this country. We're hurt. We're scared. But can we take five before we enact a bunch of responses? Just for me, reactions are implicitly dangerous. Yeah. There we go.

Okay. One out of five. There we are. Yay, we did it. We can just edit the show and make it one for one. Look at us, Zach, you and I. Two for two. We both have that and we're both racist. Look at that. Look at that. And tall. And we both say homeless. That's right. We're on a roll.

God, everyone gets cancelled. But yes, I agree with you there. And I think beyond that for me, and maybe it is tied to it, I am deeply attracted to the idea of understanding. I think we can just spend a little more time trying to understand. You don't have to agree with people, man. You don't have to like them. You don't have to know them in that way, but just understand. Your doctor doesn't have to like your cancer. They don't have to like them you don't have to know them in that way but just understand your doctor doesn't have to like your cancer they don't have to go out for drinks with your cancer but they need to understand cancer right in order for them to move forward in some way shape or form and i think in society we need to do the same i think we have to find a way to just understand where the other

person is coming from how they see the world or how they're approaching a situation. And sometimes even understand how we've gotten to the point that we've gotten to. And in that, I think we have a chance of making a clearer decision and having a clearer understanding of who we are in those situations.

And so that's my goal is to just find that space, take the time as we've done here. Yeah. It's not a seven minute, you know what it's like, TV. Well, that was going to be one of my questions. Seven minutes. Dax, welcome to the show. So you're stepdad's violence crazy man.

Great movie, by the way. You were right, go. Great movie. Let's talk about the movie. But before we do, Doritos. Thank you so much, Dax. Thank you so much. Well, I was curious.

What appealed to me about doing a podcast was simply that I had been on 100 late-night talk shows, and I had seven minutes to be brilliant. And then I could be as a guest on some of these podcasts. I was like, well, this is lovely. I can breathe. I can take a minute. I can formulate my thoughts. I also might be appealing in other ways than just being funny. That's refreshing. Is the time for you just like after seven years of boom, boom boom definitely we've compressed so many things in our lives we've turned everything into a snippet you know we consume news in the middle east in snippets we consume news in america in snippets we consume news from our friends and people in snippets life doesn't happen in snippets it is long it is complicated it is dynamic and i think when you take a breath and

you appreciate that you find yourself moving less between the tens and the twos and existing a little more realistically in a comfortable six yeah we could even go seven as a sober person i allow myself to hit seven i like seven okay yeah you will have a list movie stars yeah the rock first guests i mean that's are you bros with the rock we've been trying to get in for five and a I like Seven. Seven's good. Okay. Yeah. You will have A-list movie stars? Yeah. The Rock first guest. I mean, are you bros with The Rock? We've been trying to get him for five and a half years. I'm a little curious how you just first step back. I actually don't know, and I'm eternally grateful.

He just must admire you or something. Maybe I was lucky. But yeah, so The Rock first guest. That's pretty amazing. And then it's tons of, as you said, A-list. Kerry Washington. You name them, and then it's people who just do things in the world, the likes of Bill Gates, etc. But then I also want to speak to people who you may not know, but I think can have or do have an effect on your life.

That's where I think the conversation sometimes become more interesting. Someone asked me this the other day. They said, are you only going to have A-list celebrities on your show? And I said, no, I'm only having A-list conversations. Boom. Well, good. That means that just opened the door to you and I. Yeah, I like that.

As long as, if you can go down to B-list or something, we feel invited now. Yeah, we're coming on. This also, I imagine, works with your life. I think what people wouldn't know is like, you were probably losing a tremendous amount of money to host that show. No, no, no.

I don't ever think of it like that. I think in life, I only say you have an incredible career as a standup. Yes. The daily show is without a doubt, one of the greatest blessings that ever helped my standup. There are people who learned me because of, so I think it actually becomes a wash. Okay. I think everything I lost because of the daily show, The Daily Show gave me. So I never think of it like that, honestly. But I guess if I were you, what I would be thinking is I love The Daily Show. I miss many parts of it, probably working with that team. I'm sure you probably miss quite often. But, oh good, I get to return to this first love of mine, which is stand up. And I get to have a lot more availability to do that thing. And that for me, a podcast works

seamlessly into that, into returning into that. It's funny. I thought that towards the end of the run, but then the pandemic changed something in me. And I realized my first love is not stand up. My first love is community. My first love is building connections with human beings who mean something to me and that's actually what I want to do the biggest thing that I didn't like about doing the daily show was I don't get to see the sun most days you come in in the morning you work all the way until night and then when you leave it's dark you came in it was dark you leave it was dark and I was like huh I actually like walking around during the day having the sun sun hit my face. I like living life.

And after the pandemic, I realized I became someone who is unashamedly wishing to be a life liver. And I think we've been shamed about this. We see people online, they're like, oh, nobody wants to work these days. Yo, nobody wants to work. Am I close enough to the mic? Can you hear me? Listen here, all you haters out there, all those people are like, nobody wants to, nobody wants to work. You know how you know nobody wants to work. Am I close enough to the mic? Can you hear me? Listen here, all you haters out there, all those people are like, nobody wants to.

Nobody wants to work. You know how you know nobody wants to work? It's because everyone's trying to not work. The reason people save money is because they don't want to work at some point. The reason people have a retirement is because they don't want to work. If working was the best thing ever,

you would aim to get there at the end of your life. You'd be like, I can't wait to be 90 and working. Why aren't you doing that? Because nobody likes working. Now, I do think everybody likes having purpose. Everybody likes doing something. I think many of the jobs that people have to do to make a living are the jobs that they do because they sustain them. And unfortunately, there are many jobs that people could be doing that would be great for them and society, but they aren't supported in any way you look at how france at some point paid people to be artists and you look at how that benefited france and the world and the artists now today you go like pay people to be honest be like i'm not gonna pay some idiot just to paint all right

fine but you look at the painting too so i'm a proud liver of life i really am dax and i go what am i trying to do we have what is 4 000 weeks in our lives is that what it is 4 000 weeks if you're lucky 4 000 weeks how are you spending them what are you doing with them people will be like oh it's a work-life balance no it's just a life balance it's just life work doesn't pause it's not severance you don't pause your life to go to work you are living at work the people you're talking to things you're doing every day that is your life and so if you are blessed enough to have the opportunity to choose how you live that life then i think you also have a responsibility to live it accordingly and so that's genuinely what i'm trying to do now so funny enough this year i did way too much stand

up more than 230 240 dates you. Oh my God, you did? Yeah, everywhere from India to Dubai to South Africa. I'd love to look at your money account. Minneapolis and London and all of this. Do you need an accountant? I just want to get in there and sniff around a little bit.

Are you well-managed financially? I'd love to volunteer. Wow, that's a lot of fucking dates. Yeah, but it's like, I've never been to a wedding. In your life? In my life. You're not missing much. Yes, you are. I've never been to a wedding. They's like, I've never been to a wedding. In your life? In my life. I've never been to a wedding. You're not missing much.

Yes, you are. I've never been to a wedding. They're lovely. I've never been to a funeral. Working, working, working, working, working. I know my calendar a year in advance. Well, your buddies from South Africa who came to work at The Daily Show, who are part of the 60 Minutes segment. Of course, Leslie's still hitting the relationships thing. Like, tell us about him as a

boyfriend. He's like, everyone just shut up. Can I tell you why? I'll tell you why. By the way, it was hysterical. No, but let me tell you why. First of all, I'm private. If you are going to live your relationship in public, then you must live your relationship in public. I'm not trying to foist my relationship on anybody because I do not wish you to foist your opinions

about my relationship on me. Yes. I will have my relationship in private because that's where I believe it should be. Everyone can do what they want to do. But secondly, I find it strange that the entertainment industry is the one industry where your relationship is somehow considered part of your job.

I'm sorry, what? Well, yeah, your example. It's just like you get to an interview and then anyone can just be like, so Dax, who's the person you have sex with? Yeah, it is crazy. You literally could not do that with anyone else. You could not have the Dalai Lama on your show

and be like, so who are you banging, Dali? What's happening in your life I mean maybe but but you get what I'm saying I just think it's a weird and I don't accept your example is Mitch McConnell his example is like is anyone asking who Mitch McConnell's fucking yeah but that wasn't the point but his buddies so they're great they're good buddies and his one friend just yes, I'll tell you about his relationship. I mean, look, he's a good boyfriend. And then he just stops and then they laugh. But what they do hang you out to dry on is she goes, is he a workaholic? And they both go, yeah.

They're like, no, no, we care about you. So we're going to give you the tough love right now, which is, yes, this motherfucker is definitely a workaholic. They didn't pull any punches. So what I've done is this. I spent a long time trying to not definitely a workaholic. They didn't pull any punches. So what I've done is this. I spent a long time trying to not be a workaholic. And I've realized, to what you were saying, limitations. And I go, actually, I can't stop myself from being a workaholic. So what I now do is I'm going to work at resting.

And so I'm applying the same tool to another side of my life. I like that. So I go, instead of going, I'm just going to do nothing and try and figure, and it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Use the same tool that was creating a very successful but unhealthy environment for you. Use that same tool to work at being a fuller human being.

Yeah, schedule it. Think about what you're going to do. For the first time in my life. Have a goal of relaxation. I even apologized to my assistant because i was like my calendar looks like chaos now because i literally have everything phone call with friend yes you have to walk with literally walk with friend yeah 15 minutes this 20 minutes that watch tv show i put things in my calendar and you know why because if i didn't put that space aside, work would take it.

You know what that's like. Yes, of course. It cannibalizes it. Yes. And so now I put it aside. And then when I get there, if I don't want to watch the TV show, I don't. But now I go, this is my time. No, I like it.

I have to do the same thing. I've got like standing dinners with a friend I can never see. Every first Wednesday of every month, we go to dinner. If we don't declare that, it'll never fucking happen. Trevor's beautiful. Trevor, you're radical. I really, really like you. You're not just cute. I mean, you're also a hell of a thinker. You can't see, but I'm smiling, right? He makes me smile in a very particular way every time he says that. I can only imagine what Monica's doing. I'm like straight and I'm all fucked up over it. So great to have you on. I hope everyone checks out What Now? You're so skilled at this and I'll be very excited to listen. Thank you, man. Thank you for having me. I've

listened to the podcast many times. I appreciate what you've both done. I think it's a cool space that you've created that has definitely in some way inspired me to be in the podcast world. Oh, good. That's flattering. Yeah, because I just think we can all take a little more time to have a little more full conversations to get to know each other a little more.'ve really loved what you've done the fun the humor the ups the downs the brain the jokes the drugs the life it's all been good so thank you so much for having me and thank you to anyone who is listening thank you trevor and yes we'll be on yours we'll see you i guess we'll see you next you can i tell you something you say that yeah mark my words something is going to happen

in your life i don't wish this upon you, but it'll happen. I will invite you at that time. Do not turn me down. Oh, I will never. I will never. For instance, like The Rock, he had the thing with the Maui fires. You familiar with that? Yes.

Well, I know he's Hawaiian and there were Maui fires. So Samoan and family from Hawaii, the islands are him. Yeah. The fires happened One of the most devastating fires In American history The Rock and Oprah were like Hey we're gonna start this fund

We're gonna put money in I think they put 10 million Of their own money each Or whatever it was And they're like Let's get this thing going And they said hey Anyone who wants to donate

You donate Let's get this thing going And they got backlash You didn't see this? No Oh it was huge They got backlash? It was huge

They had to apologize They got trashed from the high heavens From the high heavens. From what? From the high heavens. People were like, you entitled pieces of trash. They were like, why don't you give all your money? Why are you asking us for money? You losers, you assholes.

Oprah and The Rock, bunch of dicks. Like Oprah went on TV. She went on CBS and apologized. And so I was like, hey, can we talk about this? And we did. Oh, wonderful. and so i think what i like about it is he wasn't like no comment yeah we spoke about it yeah wonderful i can't wait to hear that i had no fucking idea this but it's also telling that when you're in these things

you think everyone knows and also no one knows like the shit i've been in i've assumed everyone i see on the sidewalk knows but no they don't I don't even fucking know and that's Oprah on the rock 40 seconds long yeah that's crazy well this has been wonderful this has been amazing

yeah thanks for coming good luck everyone listen to What Now? a Spotify brother in arms right and welcome to the club oh yeah we're both Spotify

yeah oh look at that cashing those Spotify checks oh look at that well listen anyway you get even if you aren't listening on Spotify

you can listen so we're not walled off in any way shape shape or form. It is free to the people. That's also something I like, by the way. That it's free. Oh, yeah. It's great.

I think it's interesting that we live in a world where more and more of the good things are walled off from people. And all the bad things are free. You can watch trash anything for free. And you can read all these websites that aren't even real, fake stories about the news it's all free yes and then you want to read an interesting article that informs you on the la times new york times and it's like you gotta pay so it's like so wait you gotta pay to be informed but then being uninformed is free that's a scary world to live in it is also free which i think is wonderful check it out out. What now? Good luck. Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

We have so much to talk about. We have so much. So many loose ends. So much housekeeping. But let's start with your Coca-Cola sweatshirt. Yeah. I am proud of myself for bringing this to your attention. You did this. Because that's a 10 out of 10 sweatshirt.

You love it? I love it. Good. Do you like it, Wob? Yeah. It's really cool. Did you notice it? When you said it inside. When you were talking about it for a while, I paid attention for some of it.

I didn't bring it up. You brought it up. Dex brought it up. I would never brag. Was that your first time in it? No, no. Heavens no. Have you gotten it tailored in any way? No. You that your first time in it? No, no. Heavens no. Have you gotten it tailored in any way?

No. You haven't? Well, you got lucky. Would you? If you got a great retro item, you should, right? Because so often, what's weird about fads is cuts are fads. For sure. If I put on a shirt from the 80s or 90s, it's a box.

Yeah. It's so square. That's true. And I'm a pencil. Yeah, you don't like boxes. I need a thin rectangle. It depends on what it is. If it's like a dress or something.

Well, then we got to. Yeah, we got to. Yeah. But a sweatshirt, I'm not ruling it out. Okay. But probably not. Think about it. I'll think about it.

What do you think I should do to this one? Go half shirt for sure. Oh, you want me to crop it up? Midriff. Let's make it a midriff. And then probably cut the sleeves off. Oh, okay. Yeah, and go kind of gym style. Okay, I'm... You're out. Okay.

I love a gray vintage sweatshirt. Me too. Gray hits a darkness over time that it just can't really have. Exactly. Upon new threads. It's a patina. It's a patina. Yeah. That's right. And often the vintage ones have this very specific arm collar. Okay. What's that called? What's this part called? The cuff. Cuff. Yeah. Cuff. You weren't sure I was right. You thought about that for a second. Yeah, because I think I wanted to say cuff and it didn't sound right. Yeah, so you moved it to arm collar. You moved on. Yep. And then you brought me back. All right. Okay, so arm collar slash cuff and neck collar. Yeah, collar. Well, I have to differentiate if I'm calling this an arm collar.

Okay. Oh, right, right, right. You've created a little bit of a problem for yourself. Yeah, I have. Both in the vintage sweatshirt arena gray can be very cute. It's in the detail. It's very specific. Devil's in the details. That's what Taylor says. Now.

Yes. I have some stuff to clean up. What order do you want to go in? We can do cleanups. Something happened on my walk here I want to stuff to clean up. What order do you want to go in? We can do cleanups. Something happened on my walk here I want to talk about. Okay, well, let me do cleanup first, because I bet we'll go off on a journey once that starts. Yeah.

So some armchairs were nice enough to correct us about High School Musical 3. I call that High School Musical 3. I was worried about this. That's not what it is. Damn it. And I was worried about this. That's not what it is. Damn it. And I was so respected by them that I definitely have to be respectful. Yes.

In return. So the quote is actually from High School Musical, the musical, the series. Oh, yeah. On Netflix. And maybe it's in season three. Oh. Actually, let's see. Because someone else, I screen grabbed a few corrections.

Let's see. No, that ended in 2008. This is very detailed. But the musical, the series is, yeah, season three. And they've abbreviated it to HSMTMTS3. That makes sense because I was confused when you were like, it's Lincoln's favorite show. Right. And I thought you were just mistaken, you know, in your old age.

And I was mistaken, but not about it being a show. Right. I thought maybe you didn't know about shows and movies anymore. Right. Which is just around the corner. I'm kidding. Well, I wasn't kidding. I thought you just said show on accident.

Right. Anyway, that makes more sense. Any other ties? I did the best I could, and I did come up with four. Great. Of my favorite podcast episodes. Okay. And really only three, but I know by the time I roll out the three, I'll have a fourth.

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, I know that. Is this how you approached test test taking uh-huh yeah nearly everything in life oh wow we're so different yes yeah for sure i'm like oh i know then i'll figure out right yeah that's you know that feels different to me because that's conversation and you can wing but when it's like there's a right or wrong answer here. And there is. Well. I'm kidding.

Yes. If I were to say one that wasn't actually in my top five, that would be wrong. Like if in retrospect, I was like, oh, you know what? And if you said one that wasn't a podcast. Yeah. Oh, in fact, I have for just since we've been talking now. It came to you. Wow.

Absolutely. And I believe in it firmly. Do you think our dreams come true? Yes. Well, come true? Yes. Well, ours have. Yes. But we're so different in some ways.

You and I. Yeah. Yes. Big time. In like enormous ways. We're also so much the same in so many ways. We are.

I'm so confused by this daily. We are really alike in a lot of ways. Absolutely. In ways that I didn't necessarily always know. Wanted to admit. No, no.

I think I'm learning more that we're. You're noticing more similarities as we go. I think what it demonstrates, which is neat, is, yeah, so we're so fucking different in a ton of ways. And we're also very, very different in a ton of ways and we're also very very similar in a ton of ways and what that demonstrates to me is like how enormously multifaceted humans are and we are so tempted to sum them up all the time you always hear people say i don't like becky she's blank it's like okay well that's probably one of 85 to 150 things she is yeah so i don't know i find that encouraging that we could be so similar and so diametrically opposed.

Yeah. I don't know. Okay. I want to hear your podcast before we jump into what happened on my walk. Okay. Number one is Blame. Yes. Radiolab.

Yeah. Which I've been saying repeatedly. Number two is going to be, and this one's really important, Jonathan Haidt and Sam Harris. Yes. It was a life changer. It was. Truly. It really is as much of a reason that we have a podcast as any other reason.

And maybe even in the lead. That was such a paradigm shift for me prior to hearing that episode. And I want to give Jedediah Jenkins credit. He's the one who sent me a link and was like, you've got to listen to this. I didn't know who Sam Harris was. I didn't know who Jonathan Haidt was. Jed is the one who sent me a link and it's like you got to listen to this i didn't know who sam harris was i didn't know who jonathan height was jed is the one he is and he has turned me on to so many things over the years he's like on it but um prior to listening to that easter egg easter he's gonna be on the show so it's not an easter egg there's hatched it's a duckling

um prior to hearing that episode i would have thought the only way you could experience a conversation like that would be to be in college listening to one of the professors and or reading the books but then you wouldn't even get the back and forth the debate which was so fucking it made me horny as hell that debate i was like whoa this is so good well they're both so smart and they disagreed which is fun but they disagreed in the best case scenario academics disagree which is like it's a healthy socratic debate it's not like it didn't ever get personal or yeah like so many debates i've heard throughout my life so just the notion that i could consume brilliant people without

having to go to college or read their book was an entirely new experience for me. Yes. I suppose I could have watched TED Talk, but I don't think TED Talks are even, for me, they're not 100th as stimulating as that was. Because it's not, again, there's no debate or conversation. It's at you. Uh-huh.

It's a performance. And because of that, we made a decision immediately. Well, we want those people. We have access to celebrities, but our real goal is to have those people. And those people have been so incredible over the last six years. Oh, my God, yeah. And I got to give full credit to that episode. Yeah.

We talked about that episode a ton when we were listening to it. We listened to a lot of the Sam Harris ones way back when at the same time. Yes, it would be so fun. Like, did you listen to them rehash it? Yes. The Ezra Klein one was also an incredible. Yeah. Those are Paul Bloom.

Oh, yes. A lot of really amazing episodes of those. Absolutely. So I thank Sam Harris for turning me on to so many people I had no idea about. So that's number two. That's a great one. Number three would be Revisionist History. Okay.

The episode about, what's the TV show? I know, Alice, about, oh wait, oh, Will and Grace. Will and Grace. Oh. What episode were you gonna suggest? Cause maybe I like that one more. Brian Williams. Oh, that was a. Will and Grace. Oh. What episode were you going to suggest? Because maybe I like that one more. Brian Williams. Oh, that was a great one.

So good. But I guess we all get to pick what we are worried about. Yeah. And that one addressed one of my main worries. And that is the complete divide between everyone and the camps and the fighting. That's my number one thing i can't stand above all other issues i care about yeah and so that one was like not that it suggested a solution but it it did give us a potential cause which was so with the will and grace thing yes and

mostly that network television really unified us and then if you were sitting on a bus next to somebody in the era of Cheers, a third of the country had seen that episode every night. And when you were on a bus, you had a 33% chance that the person next to you had had that same experience as you last night. Yeah, monoculture. Yeah. We don't have it anymore.

We don't. And we were rewarded in many ways. And we also pay a huge price. Agreed. And then I had already said but um episode one of dr death okay yeah and then that's the fourth one you just that's the four okay no no the fourth i thought of while we were talking was revisionist history yes okay so that's four total including dr death yes and i need a fifth so by the end of this episode i think you're

gonna have i probably will um those are great. Oh, great. What are yours? I wasn't assigned the same homework. You didn't do the homework you assigned me? Well, because I was a teacher. The teacher doesn't do the homework. Okay. But I will if you'd like. Of course.

I want to hear your five favorite. For next week. One of them I know. Right away. I'm doing what you're doing. The instinct is so quick to say. One of them I know. We agree on a couple, I imagine. Like, Blame's got to be in your top five.

Yeah. Okay. I know three off the top of my head. Okay. Okay, Blame. Yeah. Number two is How to Become Batman. It was on Invisibilia.

This is about a boy who is blind and learns how to through clicking move around the world oh wow it's really profound huh we you have in front of you yeah can you forward it to me sure it's so good just like the human spirit those ones get me a lot when humans are indomitable just proving that we're not so limited. It's lovely. Okay, so I'm sending that to you now. So that's number two. Okay, great.

Number three, see, I already forgot. This is why- You need to write them down. Oh, oh, Tard and Feathered at This American Life about the kid who is a pedophile. Yes. That was incredible. That's a very good one.

That one changed my opinion on life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say you've evolved in that exact. Yeah. That's why I don't like actually making a list of five, to be honest,

because even you say like This American Life and I'm like, well, certainly, I've enjoyed This American Life so much over the years, and certainly one deserves to be on there. Also, Stuff You Should Know, I used to be addicted to that, and there were so many fun things I learned on there that I would have never known, and I repeat all the time. The history of wheat production and how gluten arose

and how that gave rise to celiac, like that, what an episode. Yeah, well, that's the whole point it's got to be hard there's got to be victims in this pursuit okay your walk here okay i don't know how to feel about it okay so i want your help okay telling me how to feel so i was walking here i walk here all the time yeah i'm a grown lady yeah but. But I look little. Yep. Well, you don't look little. You're little. I look young. You also look young.

I meant young when I said little. Oh, okay. Okay. So I'm walking and I'm at the light to cross, almost Fields Boulevard to cross over Vermont. Sure. That's a dicey intersection right there. Yeah.

There's a lot going on. Yeah. It's almost like a 7-Eleven, an outdoor 7-Eleven. That's where I had that man touch me. Yeah. Right now, I remember. Yeah. That's also where you bumped into the guy with the gorgeous body.

That was, no, not the cute guy I went on a date with. That was on the Hillhurst. Oh, it was. Because I was at the gas station. Oh, that's more of a love connection intersection. Yeah, that's a much better intersection. That's on 7-Eleven, yeah. Okay, so I'm standing and I'm waiting.

This crosswalk is slow because there's all these- There's a left turn lane. There's a left turn. Light. Takes forever. And this is always the case, but that's fine. I'm waiting and the light turns green. The left turn is red.

So it's time for the man to appear to tell me to walk, right? The little signal of the man to tell me to walk. Yeah, the hieroglyphic. Yes, and it doesn't come up. It's the hand still. Oh. And I was like, huh. So I didn't go.

Had you pushed the button? Yes. You had, okay.. So I didn't go. Had you pushed the button? Yes. You had, okay. Yes, I pushed it repeatedly. And I know you have to push it and then push it again if you've missed it at a certain time. So I, yeah, I know what I'm doing. Right.

And I'm waiting. So it happens again, one more time. Okay. And I have headphones in. So I think this is, I'm going to give some benefit of the doubt that maybe this is why this happened. I think I said, what the fuck? Out loud.

I think. Okay. I thought it. Someone thought a child used the F word. So this guy comes up, he's in like a biking like outfit. Okay. Like spandex. Yeah.

Oh boy. Not on a bike though. Not on a bike. So he also has a slash running outfit. Yeah. Oh, boy. Not on a bike, though. Not on a bike. So he also had a slash running outfit. Okay. He was older. He seemed harmless. And he was like, yeah, the light, you can go.

And I was like, yeah, yeah. And he was like, it takes forever, but it's safe. And I was like, yeah, I walk here a lot i i know and he like reiterated that it was safe for me to go yeah so we would agree up to this point he's trying to be helpful yes he is trying to be helpful but also i am triggered yeah yeah you have the same thing kristin has and i think it's a little person. She can't stand people trying to help her all the time. And in her defense and in yours, people do try to help you guys more than you need. And it probably feels a little condescending.

I guess. On the rest of my walk is when I came up with the fact that, oh, maybe he thought I was a kid. So he felt, maybe he felt like he was helping out a teenager. Okay. Who had grown up next to like a nuclear site and had some genetic anomalies. I had these when I was a teenager. Okay. Even a middle schooler.

So, no, he, I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt by thinking maybe he thought he was helping out this teenager who doesn't really know when to walk or not walk. Yes. Okay. But just real quick, at the risk of offending you. No, can I say something else really quick? Yeah, absolutely. I'm also going to take responsibility. Oh, okay.

I know part of the reason I was triggered is because I was embarrassed. That's great. That's great, yeah. That someone would see me just like standing for a couple cycles. And like you were too dumb to finally just recognize it's never gonna turn. If you don't go, you're gonna sit here

for the rest of your life. Yes, but that's the part that annoys me is because I'm not too dumb to realize that. I'm waiting to see, is something broken or is it not time for me to like i want to wait i'm someone who does wait for the fucking thing where we differ greatly there's two types of people in this world jaywalkers and not jaywalkers yes yes and people who if if you're if it's dark out you're in a rural rural area, you're out of light, and there's no one around, and it's red.

Do you go or do you not go? Absolutely. There's two types of people. You obviously go. I don't. Right. I don't. I follow the rules.

But you know, I think we've already had this debate, but I just want to remind you of why I would go. Yeah. Because I'm always factoring in the intention of everything. Yes. So they've put a light here for safety. Totally. And if there's nobody present, that's no longer necessary. Like it's, the premise has eroded.

I get it. Yeah. Listen, I actually really do get it. Okay. I don't have any problem with other people going. Maybe at some point in my life I probably did have some judgment of that. The easy argument to make against it

would be like, well, what if someone doesn't have their headlights on? Or what if you, like, it's not up to you to decide if it's, like, this is what Kristen would tell me as I do it. You're not in charge of determining when it's safe or not. Exactly. We have rules for a fucking reason. And we have to assume the worst and that your eyesight's bad and blah, blah, blah. Yes. We all have to play by- We have rules for a fucking reason. And we have to assume the worst and that your eyesight's bad and blah, blah, blah.

Yes. Yep. But I also get it. That's fine. I'm not judging anyone for walking- Right. When the hand is up. Yep.

I'm just like, okay, that's what they do. They are- That's how they get down. That's how they get, that's how they party. And that's also a risk. They are taking a risk. Yeah. And I don't, I don't like risk.

That's right, yeah. I'm risk averse. Yeah. And it scares me and it's not worth it. Right, because you feel bad inside. I feel bad. I feel unregulated. Yeah, unregulated, dys bad. I feel unregulated. Yeah, unregulated.

Disregulated. Disregulated. And to me, standing there for another 20 to 30 seconds is worth it. Yeah, that makes sense. So it annoyed me about the man. That he had suggested you just walk. Yeah. I haven't done my own inventory of the situation and realized, okay, maybe there's something wrong with the light.

I'm going to give it one more time. But let's just go back because as I recall, you said, oh, fuck out loud. Well, I don't know if I did. Okay, but if you had. I'm trying to give, again, give him some that maybe I did that and then I would understand because then maybe he's like. Oh, this poor girl's frustrated. She doesn't know this thing's broke. You're going to have to go probably.

I get that. And I don't want you to have to wait all day i know but like also like mind your own business kind of yeah i also think there's another two groups of people in this world those who mind their own business and those yeah givers of unsolicited advice no i'm gonna i'm gonna give pros and cons to both okay i'm gonna be kind about this because i fully mind my own business i do not if it's a stranger obviously i'm not talking about people who know each other that's a much different scenario in life strangers i don't give a fuck i don't care what anyone is doing yeah if he had stepped out on red and got flattened immediately and then four seconds later turned white, would you just walk through the air?

Just be like, yeah, I'm just a stranger. Just step over his body. The movie version, yes. But no, of course not. But that is sort of what I was about to say. Now, this is the bad side of that coin. I don't give a fuck. You do whatever you want.

It does not affect me. If it doesn't affect me i don't i don't care right the flip side of that if it doesn't affect me i don't care very much even on things that like i should maybe care oh could you give me an example i wouldn't say i'm the most like neighborly person or friendly person yes yes yes uh yes. To strangers. Right. I think I'm pleasant enough. Yeah. But I am not going out of my way.

Right. I'm not. Like I pull over on the side of the road when people are broken down pretty often. And if I think they can't change a spare, I'll do that. Yeah. Yeah. This is so embarrassing to admit. I can't believe I'm going to do it.

But here we are. I was at a coffee shop. Yeah. Sort of recently. New coffee shop. Love it't believe I'm going to do it, but here we are. I was at a coffee shop sort of recently, new coffee shop. Love it. And I was doing work. I saw there was a couple close by, like diagonal to me and they're talking, chit-chatting, whatever. I'm doing my work, doing my work. I see them get up to go and they're leaving and she'd left her purse. Mm-hmm. to go and they're leaving and she'd left her purse i'm so proud of you for today this goes where i think it's going i'm very impressed it ends up okay okay but i i saw it immediately i saw as soon as she got up right yes i was like

As soon as she got up, right? I was like, she'll probably notice it in like 14 steps. Uh-huh. I'm just waiting. I'm just waiting. Well, but hold on. Now I'm going to defend you. Okay. Because we move through the world treating strangers as we would hopefully want to be treated.

And you know you'd be embarrassed if you left your purse behind and a stranger stopped you. This is a nice way of looking at it. So I do think you are considering. They'd probably prefer to just realize in 14 steps than have a fucking stranger point out that they just left their purse behind. Maybe subconsciously I'm projecting that. All this stuff is happening. It can't even be measured how quickly it all happens. Okay.

I actually like that because I have been sitting with that. What am I doing? Why did I have been sitting with that. What am I doing? Why did I do that? But okay, so I'm waiting and it's not happening. Yeah, she's gone. And I was like, I wonder if someone working here will go handle this. Yeah, yeah. And so it is not happening.

So I do, I run, I grab it. Okay. And I run out because then I'm like, oh my God, I grab it. Okay. And I run out. Because then I'm like, oh my God, she's probably gone now. I wait, I miss the window. Yes. This is so bad. And, but luckily they weren't too far.

And I said, excuse me, is this your purse? Yeah, you're forgetful. No. Is this your purse? Oh my God, yes, thank you. Of course. Did she give you a cash reward? No.

Okay. Not yet. She gave you the purse just keep it i loved it for you got it to her and i was really glad that she had it and that i did that and i felt kind of um i felt two things i felt a bad sense of like wow i'm really a good person oh like you you really applauded what you had just done like an un an irrational sense of like wow good job monica yeah great yeah yeah okay then followed by like what am i saying anyone would do that that's so crazy you why did you take so long to even do it in the first place? You did the minimal amount. What is going on? Yeah.

What is going on? Why don't I? I don't like interacting with strangers. Yeah. I really don't. Yeah. That's fair. But why? You're tiny and brown.

You're tiny and brown and you have a good deal of fear about. I guess. I just like being in my own world. I think there's something about feeling like, I wish people didn't see me. Well, you don't want people in your business. Yeah. And then so you're not in other people's business. I'm obviously not a shy person anymore at all, but I used to be a really shy person. I feel like people have a hard time understanding that or believing it. I would certainly like to see film of it. It's hard for me to imagine. You'd have to talk to my mom.

She says it all the time. She was like, you're so shy. And I think there's a piece that's still there of that. She's like, I don't want to be seen or noticed. I love when armchairs come up. Please keep coming up. That's not what I'm saying. But sometimes when it happens, I am like, oh, yeah, people can see me.

Like, I forget. Yes. I'm just really in my own head and in a bubble all the time. Uh-huh. I've witnessed that. I've, like, walked into places you were at. Uh-huh. And I'm, like, waiting for you to notice.

And it's really, you're not, what's nice in a gift you have, you're not hypervigilant. Like you would never be in a restaurant for more than seven seconds without me knowing it because I'm scanning the restaurant every seven seconds. I'm never in my own little bubble. That's true. I'm not very observant. But I think that's a good luxury. It might be a sign of being kind of healthy.

Ish, because I am very hyper vigilant with people though in my life we also have to add context so if you are in a farming town in upstate michigan this all sounds preposterous to you yeah because you have the bandwidth to interact with everyone you see and it charts and graphs perfectly between the farm town of michigan and like L.A. in the middle and then New York City. Like when you're in New York City, you notice it as an outsider. Like people could be on fire walking down the street and other people was not. I like it. I know that you love that's what you love about New York City.

I can really be in a bubble. But there it's a bit out of necessity. It's not like there's any genetic difference between the people who are living in new york city and the ones that are living in midland michigan but the circumstance requires you to ignore the stimuli yeah and the amount of people around yes like you have to to protect yourself it's too many we're supposed to be around 100 people yeah and you're you might walk by 6 000 people on your way somewhere all that needs to be in the stew as well. Yeah. When you're in a diner, when I was in a diner in fucking Bel Air, Michigan, there might be nine other people there.

Right. It's quite manageable. Maybe that's it. I just, I felt bad. And then this guy, you know, this bad guy, this baddie. I like the part that you were embarrassed, that admission. Yeah, I was embarrassed. Because it reminds me, and I know you already know the story, but maybe some people don't.

In the old house, I was in the bathroom, and you had to walk through our bathroom to get to Kristen's closet. Right. And I was in there doing God knows what. It's not like I was undressed or anything. But I had farted. I was by myself. And I had farted. And it didn't smell great. But what do I care? I'm I was by myself and I had farted and it didn't smell great, but what do I care? I'm sitting there by myself.

Yeah. And then all of a sudden Jackie Tone just rips through the bedroom into the bathroom, crosses into Kristen's closet and is going to grab something, which is totally standard for her. And I'm sure Kristen, they're both welcome to just go into each other's closets. Yeah. And I, by the way and I'm sure Kristen they're both welcome to just go into each other's closets yeah and I by the way I'm not when it happens and I react I actually am not thinking

about the fact that I farted I just I'm there she strolls by and I go in my mind I don't say anything to her yes but in my mind I'm like I fucking hate how many people come into our house I fucking hate the people think they can just come into my bedroom and just walk through my phone. And I have this. I mount this whole thing. And by the way, it's mildly defendable. Like, the case I'm making, I feel solid with. Right.

It's not to, like, calm down two hours later. And I admit to myself, I actually don't mind if Jackie comes in. That's happened a million times before. And it doesn't bother me. I like Jackie. And it doesn't bother me. And then I was like, oh, it's because I had farted. And now this fucking stranger's in my fart. Yeah. It's not a stranger. No, worse than that. A friend is. That's true. Someone that knows me. Yeah. And then also not my immediate family where I don't care

if I fart in front. Yeah. So I had to admit to myself what really happened was I had a shock of embarrassment. Yeah. That I had farted in the bathroom. Yeah. Well, but also, God, this is hard because I think that's great to know. Mm-hmm. But also, you should be allowed to be in your bathroom when you want. You should, which was why my argument made sense in my head for three hours.

But if I just got honest about, does that actually bother me? That had happened a million times before and it didn't bother me. A second one, and this one was, it's drawing here, but, or maybe I have. The point is, Lincoln was a baby. I used to walk her nonstop across the street, do the hike with the baby carriage. I'm coming back. Up to this point, a paparazzi had not ever photographed her which i had put a lot of effort into they had followed us many places and

all this stuff i'm in the last like 100 feet before our pedestrian gate to turn into the yard and a paparazzi sees us pulls into my own driveway and starts going for his camera to start taking pictures so i pick up the pace and i like turn the corner to the pedestrian gate and I open it. And when I do that, the carriage turns on its side. She did not fall out, but it was not great. Yeah, it was scary. But again, I don't, that's not what I'm, I focus on in that moment. What happens is I get in the gate.

I immediately push the carriage into the house and I yell, Carly, grab Lincoln. Carly comes out. And then I go back outside. And now I'm going to kill this person. And the guy's in his car with his camera and I go over to his window. And I am, I'm in like a rage block out at this point. And I go to lean into the window and he tries to roll up the passenger window and I slam the window down. Okay. I broke the window.

And I'm saying, get the fuck out of my house. Don't fucking, you know, I'm like really kind of unhinged. Yeah. Which makes him unhinged. Oh, God. So I say my my shit don't fucking come back here you can't do this to my family you know i'm really bent out of shape and then i'm taking pictures of you during this no because i grabbed his fucking camera and threw it on the ground of the car turn around i start walking back to the gate and he now is out of his car opens the back seat and he's going to fucking kill you

i will fucking kill you and now he's going through his back seat and right as i'm turning into the gate he is out of his car with a gun in my driveway what yes so i shut the gate i locked the gate i immediately call my friend on the lapd and i'm like yo there's a paparazzi in my front yard with a gun saying he's gonna kill me like what's my move and he's like he's like look just fucking go inside he's like but listen and when you hear him start his car back up and go out and get his license plate okay so whatever all that stuff happens. Again, hours later, I'm like, I can't act that way. Obviously, I can't act that way. And then I put this dude in a position where now he is equally as triggered as I am.

And now he's got a gun out. And I can't be in situations where someone has a fucking gun pulled on me in my driveway. I'm acknowledging that I really fucked that whole thing up. And I put myself in a position that I should have just walked in the house and they didn't get a picture and that should have been that. I know, but you. But in this process, I realized what really happened was that when I almost dumped Lincoln out of the carriage, her safety at my hands, I got so mad that I almost hurt her. Yes. That I immediately put it on that guy.

Yeah. And then I was going to kill him because it wasn't theoretical. He had almost hurt my daughter. Yeah, for sure. For sure. For sure. It makes sense. Like, it does make sense.

In retrospect, yeah. For Sapolsky, you can track every moment. Yeah. Yeah, but that took me hours to recognize that all that was really being mad at myself. Yeah. Yeah. But also being mad at yourself, but also being mad at the fact that you're put in a position where you feel. Extremely powerless.

Exactly. Yeah. Yes. And I've been tasked with protecting this little girl. And I have decided that that's part of protecting her. Like you could argue like who cares her picture. You know, like again, if I hadn't tipped her halfway over, I would have walked inside. I would have been annoyed by it.

And I just had to recognize that that's really what had sent me into outer space. Ready to fight the guy in the front yard. Yeah. I mean, paparazzi do get people in really dangerous situations because they're extremely they're panicked and like oh god the way they drive and shit even when you're watching the beckham doc you're seeing how they all drive around and like just how insanely dangerous the whole pursuit is and just to get away from them beckham's got to be driving faster and he's making a crazy turn and then they're cutting people off. Yeah, it's too much chaos. It's kind of nuts it's legal.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. Oh, boy. Well, I'm sorry. That's... You didn't know that story? I never heard that. Oh, wow.

No. He was in a Toyota Corolla and I was a little late to him pulling out and then I ran out and I'm kind of running down those wheels trying to read the plate but i am on planet fucking xenon right because i my adrenaline between the gun and the being in his car and then i couldn't i was looking at the license plate like i couldn't i got like three

numbers from the license and it was a toyota corolla probably the most numerous vehicles in in 2013 good luck like three numbers of a toy Corolla's license plate, you'll never find that person. Wow. Okay. Okay. But I have some other stuff to say. Yeah, let's get it. Let's do it.

Let's do it. But we don't have that much time. I want to bring up, because this was a part of a story, but also there's a reason. So I feel that perhaps I have lost all my childhood yearbooks and it is not sitting well that seems almost impossible for me to believe because you have almost everything from your childhood your instagram is proof of that this week yes how could you possibly have your cutouts of leonardo dicaprio and not your yearbook okay no, no, well, I'll tell you. But also, this is a great time to clarify and had to do an update on that post

because I got anxious that some people didn't realize. I was 10. Some people, I think, think I was like 19, including Jess. And I was like, he was like, well, I just didn't do the math. It's not terribly different from the stuff you're doing with Matt and ben at 16 and 17

19 making a scrapbook for myself about is not the same and i don't i actually don't like that the giveaway to me was way more the bill more page the bill more page yes that to me says you're not 19 you're not that pumped at 19 to go to that- That's the whole, like, that's the way I was spelling and drawing and stuff. Like, something would be a bit wrong. That's something we have in common, though, because that's when I went to the Biltmore house at 10, and I was blown away. Yeah, so cool. I loved it.

Really cool. Set off a lot of alarms. Remember my mom said that when we interviewed her? Yeah. Anyway, no. So I didn't lose them willy nilly. I have been slowly trying to bring yearbooks from my parents' house over here. I've brought all of the K through eight yearbooks. The only ones after the big chonkers.

Big boys. Big boys. Daddy longers. Big daddy longers. Yeah. They're in this area with a lot of these other books. And when I was doing some rearranging in my apartment, I took all those books out. I put them in a box and I put them in the garage of my house. Knowing like when I move in the house, whatever, great. That was in the garage of my house.

That was before we started construction. When we started construction, I had a lot of stuff in that basement. You know, Bill, beautiful Bill, one of my fathers, one of my founding fathers has told me like at some point, like you gotta get that stuff out of here

so they could do work on it. So I did. I moved it all into my Prius, my storage unit. Yeah. And- My storage unit. Easter egg. This Friday, we, the Armchair Expert Umbrella, are releasing a new show.

Yes. It's an eight-episode show. Called Yearbook. Called Yearbook. It's really awesome. Yeah, it is. And we are producing it with Chad Sanders. You might remember him.

Yep, he wrote Black Magic. He wrote Black Magic. We had him on during COVID, a Thursday episode, an expert. And he's awesome. He's at the center of it. We're hopefully going to do multiple seasons with multiple people at the center. Yep. Perhaps Dax and Aaron.

Perhaps Monica. Maybe me. Anywho, it's a great show. We're really, really excited for all of you guys to hear it. In anticipation of this show, we're working on the cover art, and I said we need yearbook pictures of ourselves. Yep. And then Rob said, does anyone have an actual physical yearbook so I can help, like I can

make it? Yes. Turn the apartment upside down don't see them okay yes I remember they must be in my Prius because they're in with those books I go I look yesterday no box of books scary then what happens they're stolen well this was there a note, a ransom note or anything? Yeah, I didn't. I haven't looked hard, but I expect that is a possibility. No. That must be very scary for you to think you have lost those. Yeah.

So I texted Bill, hey. Have you seen my yearbooks? I don't see. I know there were books. Not seeing that. Okay. Here's a hypothetical. Yeah.

We love Bill. He's like our favorite guy. He's our favorite. What impact does it have if you've come to find out- Stop! Bill saw them and liked them and took them to his house and has been looking at them a lot. Dax! Sincerely, how do we file that?

This is not fair to him at all you're asking me and it's not sexual no it's not no no no it's like nostalgia yeah he just he just loves them he doesn't know why but he loves looking at them okay and it's not sexual wasn't everything sexual exactly okay so Okay. So you're, okay. Okay. You're asking me hypothetically if I found out Bill was a pedophile, which is sort of what you're asking. That is not what I'm asking. Poor Bill that we're even doing this. He doesn't deserve this.

It could, look, that's why I'm asking because you could make a lot of assumptions about that. You could feel a lot of ways about that you could feel a lot of ways about that you could feel like well this is very sad bill's very lonely or he misses or he didn't go to high school or he's homeschooled or whatever he's fascinated by these you know there's a lot of explanations you went right to the worst which is reasonable okay first of all and what if he looked at him every night like i imagine he makes himself his dinner he's sitting by himself at a magnifying glass huge magnifying glass guys stop this isn't nice okay it's not it's so hypothetical what if someone well i don't want bill he's such a good professional he is yeah um but anyway what if

you okay oh god next question because you don't like it being about bill okay but if you found out that i've been looking at the yearbooks i'd be like makes sense very odd brand i'd say what what's going on what do you like about it? Because I actually could see myself looking at your yearbook for a very long time because I majored in anthropology. I'm not kidding now. I am super interested in other cultures. And I would want to look at this and go like, how was this Georgia high school experience different from mine? Or how does it look similar? I could definitely spend an hour or two looking at one of your yearbooks.

Well, I get that. And I could also with yours. So that's why I feel. So why aren't we assuming that's what Bill's doing? Because he doesn't have. Every night. You said every night. Before bed.

I did add that. No, I said at dinner. But yeah, that is. Yeah, whatever. Earlier than I think you said before. You just kept throwing a bunch of spaghetti at the wall. But I also, Bill and I, as I adore him so much, we don't have the same kind of relationship

you and I have. No, I know. We're best friends. You and Bill aren't best friends. Exactly. You're mother-daughter. I mean, father-daughter. I'll be, even if my dad, if my dad looked at my yearbooks every night, I would obviously not be, I wouldn't be creeped out by that.

Of course. But I would say, Dad, something feels a little unhealthy. I think you really miss the past or me or something. And I understand, but we have to move on. I'm still alive, Dad. Yeah. Yeah, just call me. I can't promise I won't be looking at the girls' yearbooks.

Although I say that, but I do look at pictures of Delta all the time. Exactly. It's so wonderful. Yeah. This is complex. I'll definitely look at my kids' yearbooks, I think. I would look at, if people are in your life, I just spit, people are in your life and have a relationship with, There's something very sweet about wanting to revisit their life. Yes.

And I think it's good that we talked about this because it narrows the focus of who could be a suspect. I know the answer to the books. When I moved all the stuff into the Prius, Anna was with me. She filmed all this because we were going to start cataloging the formation of my home yes you're potentially going to do a rehabilitation show yeah we were just going to post some videos on instagram for people to follow if they want it but don't get your hopes up about that because we haven't done anything since that day right but she has she has all this footage. So I was with her yesterday and I was telling her about this. And she's like, well, we can look.

Wow. We looked. The box with the books was in the garage. I did not move it to the Prius because it was too heavy. And so I still don't know where they are. But probably somewhere in your house basement. Either in my house basement or they got thrown away if I said

anything left in there can go. And that's my worry. And I'm really afraid to ask Bill because I am afraid that the answer is I'm so, yes, we threw everything away because you told us

to. But what if he said I was, I did throw it away and as I threw it away, I'm so, yes, we threw everything away. Because you told us to. But what if he said, I was, I did throw it away. And as I threw it away, I was like, oh, these are good yearbooks. I wonder if these are Monica's. I would be so grateful. Yeah, it'd be worth whatever he's doing with the yearbooks just to get them back. He's not doing anything bad. So you'd be relieved if this is the scenario. He's not doing anything.

Don't do that. Anyway, I feel scared. I've lost my past. Yeah, I understand. And you made it gross. What if you took them and refused to give them back? Can we move on? We have a lot of finders keepers.

Oh my God. This is such a stupid phrase. It's like a tribal law or something. I'm just kidding. It doesn't even, it's not even grammatically correct. No. No. Keepers.

Oh, that's great, though. Okay, well, I wanted to talk about couples therapy. We haven't done that. Who's this for? I wanted to talk about ADHD. Trevor. Oh, Trevor Noah. Yes.

Some facts. Okay, so he mentioned, he used the phrase, my short king. It's like a joke. Oh, yeah, yeah. And you laughed really hard. And it was funny. But do you know that's a phrase people use? I don't know about short king.

Short king. There's no king. Short king is like a thing now. Oh, it is. And what does it mean? Exactly what I think? According, yeah. According to Urban Dictionary, a man who realizes that his lack of height has nothing to do with his perception of

his own self-worth that's great yeah um yeah i've heard it and so that's what i assumed it meant yeah luckily oh right no yeah i just it's a thing that's like been popping up around lately zeitgeist it's in the zeitgeist yeah okay i just because we talked about apartheid a lot yeah for people who are my gen they'll know that didn't watch lethal weapon that didn't watch lethal weapon you probably watched the color of friendship which was a disney channel movie that they played all the time. And I'm not sure it holds up. I don't remember much about it.

I just remember they played it in school, and then it was on TV all the time, and I don't know. Listen, funny you'd say that. Ding, ding, ding. Watched last night for the first time with Lincoln, Mean Girls. She picked it out. So good. It's a phenomenal movie. It's so good. You can't make any of the Girls. She picked it out. So good. It's a phenomenal movie.

It's so good. You can't make any of the jokes that are in it today. No, I know. And I was, my conclusion was like, yeah, life's just going to be less fun. I mean, really. It's so, it's like so good spirited and there's nothing mean about it, but you couldn't say any of the stuff, but it's so funny. Depends on how you identify fun. Maybe for you. You loved it i did yeah but everyone that saw it loved it i love me it's i think it's one of the best movies i love it but i also i think fun can evolve things can evolve i don't

think there's only one kind of fun yeah exactly they have a new one coming out in january oh really i think that's maybe why she was hip to seeing the original. I think that must be penetrating and it's on her radar. So good. Okay, what year was it? Because he said it was bad at dates, 1948 to early 90s. And I really want to talk about couples therapy, so I guess we'll do it next time. That's great.

We'll still be passionate about it. I have two more. How far are you in now? I watched all, I i told you i watched all of the first season one night yep then i didn't watch any yesterday okay we were at a party last night and it was with four people i had never met and some i don't know why i said does anyone watch couples therapy and everyone present had watched it and is obsessed with it apparently it's a big thing yeah i didn't know that we were so out of the loop we are we are out of the loop it's fun to see that everyone has the same feeling about it it's like yeah it's fascinating it is it is really stressful but not like very mundane but stressful

and life is so hard. And people are so complicated. I don't know how anyone is doing this. I don't know how anyone's doing anything. There's also like, there's something to be said. Oh, we got a guest coming in in a minute. What is seems to be so ubiquitous is that we tend to get attracted to people who snap right into our childhood patterns. And what is familiar to us.

Yeah. And this is what I would say is one of the downsides of not having arranged marriages. Because when you have arranged marriages, that's not what's happening. You're not responding to the stimuli and then ending up. So I bet in just that way alone, I think arranged marriages might have like, you got to have like a 50% better chance. Just because almost everyone that's in this therapy setting, it's very obvious why they got together. Right. Their things click in perfectly.

Like they both played these opposite roles in their own family and it just clicks. But then it clicks into the same cycle. Yeah. And you get stuck in this cycle and it's just funny because we we feel liberated by pursuing relationships based on love and attraction yes but the liberation also comes with this crazy high predictable i know it's really hard to it's so annoying because my therapist says a lot that like that feeling yeah the feeling of attraction yeah the lightning bolt is bad yeah yeah ultimately yeah and that can make for great sex though so people should do it for a while it's when your body recognizes familiarity and if your goal and it often is is to like break a pattern or have something different than what

was familiar yeah it's bad it's almost a red flag it is it's almost a red flag but also how the fuck can it's like the most impossible thing to resist. Yes. So why are we designed like, it's so annoying. It is. But again, why are we designed that way? Well, because for most of time, we didn't have marriages of love. We had marriages of family arrangement.

I mean, why do our bodies, they should make us feel disgusted when it's familiar. Familiar. But instead, it's- It's horny. I don't even know if it's just familiar. Well, familiar to either your childhood or to- When you're parents. When you're parents or your past relationships or whatever.

That's why people end up dating the same person over and over and over again. Yeah. Well, in AA, we have take contrary action. I know. Relationships or whatever. That's why people end up dating the same person over and over again. Over and over, yeah. Well, in AA, we have take contrary action. I know. So as a rule of thumb, when you first get sober, try for a year to do virtually the opposite of what you always want to do just to see what the results are. Yeah. Because doing what you felt right landed you here. Yeah.

Let's admit. So let's try doing the contrary, the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. My therapist and I were just talking about that this morning. Wow. What do you say? I was saying that perhaps I could write a book about off-road racing as a metaphor for life.

Two things. One is this concept of target fixation. So if you're off-road racing and you come around the corner, right? There's so many obstacles in off-road racing. It's not a racetrack. You're in the desert. So you come around a corner and you're flying and you realize like, ooh, I'm in route to hitting that tree that's in front of me.

So your brain makes you stare at that tree because you're terrified of hitting it. Yeah. But the car goes where your eye is. That's a rule of racing. Where you look is where the car goes. So you look to the apex of the turn before you there, and it makes the car go there. And then you're looking at the exit before you're at the apex, and then a car goes there. So this target fixation will make you drive directly into the tree.

So you have to, as a rule of thumb, learn to, you see, oh, fuck, I'm going to hit that rock. I'm going gonna look at this other thing which is terrifying because you're afraid it's approaching but in doing that you often will be able to get the car out of that and then another thing is if impact is imminent you're heading towards a boulder your instinct is to slam on the brakes. But when you slam on the brakes in an off-road car, there's so much suspension that the front end goes down a ton. So now you're hitting this object even lower,

which you don't want to do, and all the weights on the front end, and the car's tilted at an angle. So now when you hit this wreck, you might flip the fucking car over in a cartwheel. When you know impact is imminent in off-road or you're about to go off a cliff or you're about to do what's all this stuff happens roads get washed out you floor it the second you think you're fucked you have to floor it which is the opposite

of what your body wants to do your body wants to hit the brake to stop but if you floor it it actually makes the rear suspension compress it picks up the front suspension so that there's more clearance and it's really light. So when you now hit that object, you're liable to deflect and just jump it as opposed to submarine and stop on impact. So those are two instances. But how would that relate to life? Like if you're approaching something bad, you're supposed to just keep, you're supposed to double down? That's where it comes into contrary action that's the metaphor is like doing the opposite of what your body thinks it should do is often the right all right course of action yeah

yeah i've only got two so far so it's going to be a very short book three four pages that's good for our attention spans these days. So maybe it's more a tweet, a series of tweets. Sounds good. All right. Well, I guess that's it. All right. I love you. That was fun.

It's always so fun. I loved Trevor Noah. Yes. Me too. When we walked out, you said, boy, you guys are a lot alike, huh? I think you're a lot alike. Yeah. And I would tend to agree.

All right. I got some yearbooks to look at. Bye. Bye.