Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - We are supported by... Abby Wambach

Episode Date: August 4, 2021

We Are Supported By, hosted by Kristen Bell and Monica Padman is a 10 episode limited series podcast. Each episode deep dives with a woman who has put a crack in the glass ceiling. Episode 7: Abby Wambach Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We Are Supported By is brought to you by Chevrolet. Find new roads. One of your friends is here today. Oh, man. I mean, I don't know if I can call her my friend. We're just sort of like DM friends, but I do know her wife. Yes.

And the two of them are beacons of light for me. I love how they communicate. I love how open they are. Today we have Abby Wambach. Dude, guys, she's an Olympian. Yeah. No big D. No big D.

I'm very interested in Olympians. Well, because they're special a dish. I know. You don't get an Olympian every time you walk out of the hospital with a baby. That's right. Limited a dish. They're very limited a dish. It also takes so much dedication, which we talked about a lot.

And Abby is an American retired soccer player. She's also a coach, two-time Olympic gold medalist, a FIFA Women's World Cup champion, and a member of the No Big Deal National Soccer Hall of Fame. She's a six-time winner of the U.S. Soccer Athlete of the Year Award. It's incredible. What's so fun about the National Female Soccer Team, I'm not that into soccer or anything, but when you watch them, you really see everyone collectively doing their part.

Yes. There's something amazing about watching that very specific team of women. Just like bosses, but letting people have their moment. Like, oh, it's just great. What's weird is in every other sport, you can hold onto the ball. Like in baseball, you got your catcher's mitt, you can hold it.

Like in basketball, you can just hold it with your hands for like a minute if you're dribbling it, from what I understand. There's like all these different sports where you can hang onto something, where you get it and you feel great. But literally in soccer, the goal is to get it and find the next move.

And so you have to be assessing your teammates at all times. And what I loved is how Abby described that, of like knowing your strengths, but also knowing you don't have to be good at everything. Find the strengths in the people around you, and that's your team And that's your team. That's your family. That was the back tattoo.

Sorry to blow it now. That's all right. That was this week's back tattoo. Yeah. You got to know what your teammates are good at. Yeah. And not feel like you have to do all the things. Yeah.

You're not alone out there. Yeah. And that's one of the beautiful things about soccer. And she talks about soccer being this like global unifier of love. And she's also just like very open and honest. And, you know, Glennon, her wife is a writer and she wrote a book about reuniting with her husband. And then like a couple weeks later met Abby and was just like, I think I have to make a different choice. then wrote a book, Untamed, about meeting Abby. And it's just a crazy and beautiful love story. And they're so honest and open. And I love how much they've taught me. Awesome. We got to share it with our audience. Yeah.

Got to peek into her insight. And here it is. We are supported by Abby Wambach. Hello. How are you? I feel like I know you all. It's so weird that we've never actually met in person. I know. I kind of feel like that too when I was researching and watching videos. I was like, I feel like I already know her. It is strange though, right?

Because you and Glennon do the same thing that Dax and I do and that Monty does like when we do our friendship stuff. You just sort of put it all out there and it does create this, I don't want to say false, but it's definitely a sense of intimacy. Oh, for sure. So when you meet people, but I couldn't agree more. I fully feel like I've been in that bed with you guys when you've been giggling about something or like the toothpaste, anything. One time Kristen was like, I wish I could be part of their marriage. Like you really were like. I did. You two have this sense of joy and love and ping pong about

learning experiences and communication that is just one of the purest forms of love anyone could have with another human being. It is such a joy to watch because that's one thing Dax and I made a commitment about like probably seven or eight years ago. We were like, maybe if we just show everything, people might learn something, feel something, and isn't that the goal? Rather than being like, oh, my personal life is none of your business. So it was a very deliberate choice to say, yeah, we fight just like everyone else. Did you and Glennon find that that was the same? Yeah. Actually, I don't know if you've ever heard of a woman named Martha Beck, but she's kind of a spiritual life coach. And early days when Glennon and I first got together, we were trying to sort

it out. At the time, I was a little bit more public than Glennon was. And over time, it's kind of flip-flop, which is super cool. But this woman, she just said to us, look, you don't have to do anything except just love each other. And the way that Glennon is with her community, I knew coming into my marriage with her, that that's what I was getting. Our love is special for sure, but the biggest form of activism we can do, and it's like kind of like what Ellen did 15 to 20 years ago for her talk show is just to be a gay person in the public world. Yeah. And to be just married. Yeah. And to be a married gay person in the public world, like Team Glennon, Team Abby,

it's hilarious that that's even a thing. But there's so many things that are false about the way that we think about gayness in this culture, in the world. I was actually just asking Chase because he's the real intellectual in our family. No offense, Glennon. But I was like, why has it been such a bad thing to be gay

through all of humanity? And I think that it's like an interesting question. Like, why? It's so bizarre because there have been gay people from the beginning of time. Oh, absolutely. And trans and non-binary. That's been going on since day one.

I'm always a big fan of citing evolution. And when we started, humans' brains couldn't get abstract concepts. And it's so important for your brain to file it in a blink decision. And I think that any time you went outside the box a long time ago, it felt scary. And so let's stay inside the box. It feels safer. And then it just squashed the spirits of millions and millions and billions of people throughout history that weren't able to be who they were because of completely arbitrary rules. Incredibly sad. Societal boxes. It's not inherent boxes. It's ones that we created to feel safe or to feel-

Social contracts, for sure. Exactly. To feel like in the in-group. And I think there's a kind of a scary thing that I hope we're breaking, but that in order to be in the in-group, there has to be an out-group. And so I think that's how some of this started to form. It's like, well, I need to be normal. So that makes that person abnormal. And it's the thing we just like, you know, have to break. We are broken inside with this archaic software that tells us to find an out-group and an in-group. And it just doesn't matter anymore. It's like we were reading this book with the girls last night, The History of Underwear.

And it was fully like King Tut believed in reincarnation. So he was buried with 145 pairs of panties. So like, we're over that. We don't need to put panties at 100% in everybody's graves. Also like, people didn't wash their underwear. They thought it was like a sign of disrespect. And so people just went years and years with the same undies. That's the thing. That's broken, right? And we can now admit, I mean, it's a silly example, but we're like, we definitely wash our panties now.

It's like way better for everybody. We don't stink. But there are all these higher concepts, like letting someone love. How the hell does that affect you? And Abby, I want you to talk a little bit about like your road with this. Because I come from a community that loves church. I went to Catholic school. I love that community. But I will tell you, the minute the rules started getting specific about who you could love, I was like, fuck, this feels wrong. This just doesn't feel right.

There was a time in which the Catholic Church joined up with politicians. And I think probably even beyond just the Catholic Church, but I think predominantly it's the Catholic Church behind this. And they decided, okay, what are two ways we could mobilize a group of people to get behind certain policies? group of people to get behind certain policies and gayness and abortion were their top two things that Christian leaders were talking with government politicians around how can we get and keep getting voted into office. What happened was basically they were just like, look, we're going to take these two huge issues. Obviously, we all know about these issues, look, we're going to take these two huge issues. Obviously, we all know about these issues now, and we're going to make sure that the world knows about them. And we're going to make sure that we keep getting voted into office. So at the end of the day, for me, I have an understanding of gayness, and I believe that the church is inherently good. I deeply believe

that people who go to church are good. I believe that the idea and the concepts around it are inherently good. Like, I think that what church is trying to get across is goodness, right, for the most part. But I do think that when you mix church and money things just get bad and I grew up like you Kristen in the Catholic church and nobody ever said to me hey look you can't be gay otherwise you're going to go to hell I just knew it like inside of my bones that's even worse yeah that's worse and it's because they're like insidious gay jokes or insidious comments or seeing somebody else be othered, whether it be inside my family unit at my school or whatever it might be. So I just knew from an early age that I had a choice

to be made and I had to kind of save myself. So I became a militant atheist. When there is inclusion, that is also exclusion. So like when you're in one group, you're out of another. And when you're out of one group, you're in another. So I was like, all right, well, that means then I am for sure an atheist, like, and I'm going to be the best atheist there is. And so when Glennon and I actually first met, I was still in this world. And she just said one thing to me once, and it still pisses me off. She goes, you know, you're fighting really hard against something that you don't believe in. And I was like, why am I fighting so hard? Because I think like deep down, I have a sense that there's something

that I don't understand that is a little bit magic about this world that I will never understand. And I think my pride was just getting better of me because I just wanted to be a part of the correct group. You know, I wanted to be a part of the group that knew the truth. You're acting in opposition to the box you were put in. You are not mutually exclusive to your own ideas. You can be a couple different things. And you don't have to seek the answer all the time. I've recently come to terms with that.

I'm like, oh, I'm never going to know. Because it was when my kids asked me, what happens when we die? And I was like, real talk, nobody knows. You might become a flower. You might fly up in the sky. You might just lay there, nobody knows. You might become a flower. You might fly up in the sky. You might just lay there in the ground. You might become a bug. I mean, I don't know. But the cool thing about not knowing is we can sort of wonder together. And you just believe something that comforts you. You know, think of a story in your head that comforts you as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. But so many people are allergic to not knowing,

and I'm just kind of cool with not knowing. But it's control. It's control. The reason we're allergic to not knowing is because we need to know. Because if we don't know, then the world is chaos. It's very human to seek answers for that reason. But what you said about just no one told you being gay was bad. You just knew it in your bones. You knew it because society was telling you. That's similar to being a woman. There are things you know. That we can't do or we shouldn't do. But no one's saying it explicitly, but you know because of the cues that society is giving.

And what's funny is that we are the ones that pick up on the cues, you know? Like, the dog can only hear the whistle at the high pitch. Men are like, well, but no one ever told you to stay small. But it's like, but are you joking me? Every single social cue I've ever gotten in my life was stay small. Oh, my God. And that's like, and not to throw him under the bus, of course. But Dax, at one point when we first started the podcast, he would say stuff like, I think it's actually like women,

they're in charge of the magazine. So they're the ones telling you to be small. And I'm like, but what are they being told from who? Like you have to climb the ladder. Yes. And it's a long ladder because listen, I have grown so much just by being married to Glennon Doyle. It feels like her brain and heart is like five years down the road from the rest of us. So I'm always playing catch up. I feel like I am the biggest racist and the biggest misogynist and the biggest homophobic person in the world. Just sitting next to her. Yeah.

She's like always correcting me. She's like, I don't know about that. Yeah, she's like always correcting me. She's like, I don't know about that. And, you know, I grew up in a male dominated sports world where signing a contract is saying, yes, I'm taking this less than contract is accepting and agreeing with my own all on a journey. If you don't or haven't examined your own internalized barometer of what race is to you and where it falls in the importance line and where sexism falls and where you and what you're responsible for, we all have to go into our own selves and evaluate where we're at. I have more patience for people because I am that person. I see Glennon being so much more further ahead of me and having done so much more personal work, but I see her do the work and I see the payoff. So it gives me that confidence to want to do more personal work to become less sexist. I still have it in me because of the Catholic church. Those are really hard talons to like pull out over the years with my,

my own thoughts on homosexuality. I mean, we were at the bank recently and Glenn and I were signing paperwork. And of course they Hannah's papers and it says husband and wife 2021. Yeah. And Glennon doesn't have any kind of chill in her like she will never let something just like go she just doesn't have that in her dna so she just like pushes the paper back to the middle of the table and she's like these are incorrect yeah and making everybody

at that table uncomfortable including me the wife Well, it was not a woke bank. Right. Exactly. As opposed to all the woke banks. Yeah, that's right. That's right, Monica. They are now, though. But like we got back into the car and I just said to her, I said, you know, it's so interesting. People probably out in the world would think that I would be one of the people that would speak up but i have been so conditioned as a gay person and and having been a gay person longer than glennon i have been so conditioned to just like take those kind of insidious moments and just like swallow them yeah whereas glennon grew up with straight

privilege right and so she just like no, this is not happening here. You know, and I think for me, I think that some of us gay folks need to like unlearn some of the things that we've been swallowing and like take on some of the straight privilege so that we can actually make and say the thing when we need to say the thing. In your defense, the reason that you are more willing to like let it go is because it's self-protective. You've learned over time, as you said, you've been gay for much longer. So you learned over time, if you fight every single battle, you'll get injured at least once or twice. And so sometimes your brain is like, you know, always doing this dance. And I feel that as a minority,

I've had to do the same thing. Like, which battles do I fight? When this person says, where are you from? Do I do the thing? Do I say, what do you mean? Where are my parents from? Or do I just give them the answer they, I know they're looking for? You know, it's always this battle in your head. And it's unfair that you have to be the one to sort of fight it. And it's great that Glennon is willing to always be the person that's like, no, this is wrong. This is wrong because we need people like that. Because sometimes you just kind of don't have the fight in you in that moment. That's right. A woman that I know, Dr. Yaba Blay, she's an incredible activist and a black woman who has taught me so much about race and my own stuff inside of that.

And she says, we laugh so we don't cry. And I think that that is so true for so many minorities, any kind of marginalized person in this world. Come on, if this is our experience and history has told us that change happens, but it's slow, might as well like enjoy the time that we're here and try not to take everything so personally, I guess. But it is. I mean, it is offensive. All of it is offensive. It's like, you're right, though, Monica, like what battle should I fight? Yeah. It's also interesting because as a gay person, as a minority, as a woman, we're a part of the water too. So it's not like we're necessarily like standing outside the river, like we're in it too. And we're susceptible to getting those same ideas placed inside our brain.

So, you know, we can't just keep pointing the finger out. It's also within us to change as well. That's right. Guys, I love this conversation. I'm just going to tell you that right now. Okay, Abby. You're an insane superstar. Everyone already knows that. You're an icon. Yes, you're an icon. Sports fiend. I mean, it's unbelievable. And what I love so much is when you are described, it's always with the caveat, regardless of gender, you have the highest scoring. Second highest scoring? Second.

Second now. So I was the world record holder for most goals scored in international soccer. And then two years ago, a woman from Canada, her name is Christine Sinclair, she overtook my record, which is great because records are meant to be broken. And although my kids did say like, well, what am I going to say now? Like my mom is the number two world record holder. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you're going to say. And it's still going to be wildly impressive moving on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's cool. I had a really good career. I loved what I did, but there are some things about my career that, I mean, Kristen and Monica, I'm sure you both know, like when you do something very well and it's just strange to be out of the billions

of people around planet earth to be like, like they literally handed me a word that you are the number one player. And I'm like, come on, like, this is, this is not who chose this, you know, like out of all of the people, they gave me the one award and it's a weird thing. So I feel grateful of the time that I played. I loved every second of it. And also I have really loved my retirement because I am a person and I've been able to enter back into humanity. I think that as a pro athlete, there's a sense that I had to be a kind of a person that lived into the best in the world. So I was very good at not quitting, right? I was very good at like being fit. I was very good at not quitting, right? I was very good at like being fit. I was very good at scoring goals.

I was very good at playing hard. And it very much contributed to so much of the problems of my life because of that attitude and mentality. So I was very good at drinking, right? I was very good at partying with my friends. And that life just doesn't serve someone for long periods of time, right? For forever. So since I've gotten my retirement, I've gotten sober. I'm five years sober. I literally met Glennon a month after my sobriety birthday, my number one day without

drinking. And everything in my life has changed because of that. Everything positive and playing was good, but retirement's better. Where do you keep your gold medals? Do you hang them on the wall of the bathroom? Are they like in a safe or like, do you wear them around the house? Like what's the deal? Where do they get placed? Well, back to King Tut and the panties. They're in my underwear drawer.

Yes, yes. I mean, where else can you put it? Like people will steal it. And why would you put it in a safety deposit box to never be seen again? So anytime like a little kid comes over who might have any interest in sports, my kids are like, do you want to see my mom's gold medal? I'm like, yes. That's awesome. So cute.

Yeah, it's sweet. Support comes from Chevrolet. Yeah, it's just you and your four-legged friend. If you're into sporty, you'll be pleasantly surprised by how spacious the Trailblazer is for a compact SUV. If rugged, refined, and roomy is more your thang, check out the Suburban. Two ends of the Chevy SUV spectrum, both with flexible storage. And on top of space for everyone, they've also got something to fit into every budget. Plus, every Chevy SUV comes with advanced safety technologies to help protect your precious cargo. To add head-turning glamour to your everyday, find the Chevy SUV that fits your needs at chevy.com. We Are Supported By is supported by BetterHelp. And you can be supported by BetterHelp too. Yes, you can. If you're feeling depressed or struggling with uncertainty or having difficulty sleeping, I have that, or meeting your goals. BetterHelp offers online professional counselors

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slash supported 14 and use code supported 14 for up to 14 free meals plus free shipping. That's HelloFresh.com slash supported 14 and use code supported 14 for up to 14 free meals plus free shipping. HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. You in your very well-known Barnard speech, you talked a lot about something that is incredibly important, which is pay gap, that women are earning 80 cents for every dollar. One of the things you specified in it that I don't think people know is you were getting this fancy award with Peyton Manning and Kobe Bryant and you, and you were talking about walking off stage. Can you explain what you said there? Yeah, so ESPN called, and they have an award show every year called the ESPYs. And you were talking about walking off stage. Can you explain what you said there? Yeah. So ESPN called and they have an award show every year called the ESPYs.

It's like Oscars or Emmys for sports. And they decided they were going to give me and two other athletes what's called the Icon ESPY Award. And so Kobe Bryant, may he rest in peace. And Peyton Manning and myself were getting this award. It was in 2016. So, you know, I had lines and I'm not good at memorizing. I would love for you to teach me how to memorize lines better. She's just a savant at it. It's so weird. When she helps me with my auditions, she'll read it once and then she can do everyone's lines. It's insane.

It's a muscle. It's just like a bicep. You just got to use it every day. Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, that's good to know that I might be able to get better at it. But anyways, we're on stage. I have some lines. I'm nervous as hell about saying the line. I have anxiety about memorizing. I have like a deep fear that I'm stupid. So I nailed the lines and the three of us turned to walk off stage and something entirely different happened. I was like, so grateful to be there. I was so like, this is Kobe and Peyton, like some of the most legendary athletes that have ever played sports. And here I am. Right. And then when the three of us walked

off stage, something else happened. I started to develop a kind of anger that I had never let myself feel before for some reason. And I was supposed to go out and party with the friends that I had there, some of my former teammates and some of the other celebrity athletes. But I told the driver, I was like, just take me back to the hotel. I just want to go lay down. And I realized that night that I had spent my whole career like I did on that stage, just feeling grateful. And I think many women could understand that. I thought on some level, because I was only comparing myself to other women, I thought I had it good. Comparing myself to other women in other industries, comparing myself to even other teammates, like I was one

of the highest paid players on my team, I have nothing to complain about, right? But this experience of walking off stage next to these two men who had both collectively earned over hundreds of millions of dollars in their career. And by the way, nobody's trying to take their money. They earned their money. And I was like trying to figure out what kind of job I was going to get so that I could pay my mortgage at the end of that month. Like, that's true. And you had all worked the same amount, like physically, mentally. You're getting the same award. You're getting the same award. You had dedicated yourself to your specific type of sport, yet they walk off basically holding luggage full of cash. Their life is set. Yeah. Yeah. All they

need to worry about is where they're going to invest their money. And my worry is like mortgage bills. And so I understood deeply that this was not just a problem that I was insulated from. Like I was a part of the problem too. So I promised myself two things that night. Number one, the Alex Morgans, the Crystal Duns and the Megan Rapinos of the world, the next national team players would not share this experience with me. And that more importantly, number two, I understood that if this is happening to me, this is happening to every woman on the planet in every industry, like no matter what, and that it wasn't okay.

And I think that we have to switch our mindsets because the world teaches us to compare ourselves to each other. It is the reason why only two seats at every boardroom table are dedicated to women. It's because the world has taught us women to fight against each other, not to look at this table of 10 seats and go, why don't we have five of these chairs? Yeah, exactly. Right. And then I'm going to take it another step because I have evolved this thought. I'm tired of needing to require these chairs at these tables. We women, Kristen and you, Monica,

we need to start owning the fucking tables. We need to stop renting the chairs. We need to own shit. Yeah. Right. That is where the real power is. That night was so profound for me because We need to stop renting the chairs. We need to own shit, right? That is where the real power is. That night was so profound for me because I was retiring and I didn't know what I was going to do next and life threw a brick in my face. And so I've just been dedicating the rest of my time to making sure that all women everywhere have a voice, that all women in every industry understand that they need to compare themselves to their male counterparts, to the people who not just are around that table, but the people in their communities, the people in their jobs, the people in their homes. Women have been dropping

out of work for the last 18 months to 24 months. People are like, why do you think women are stopped working during the pandemic? Because they don't earn as much as their husbands. Yeah, exactly. It's easy. Glennon taught me this beautiful thing early on in our relationship. She was like, look, I can't be a single parent. And when you come in and you ask me, what can I do? It means that you are not a 50% share in this marriage.

It means I am carrying the entire mental load for our family. We call it the ticker. She said, I am constantly tickering for our whole family and you aren't. I am carrying all of the mental load for our family. I got it. I was like, you're totally right. I'm an assistant. I'm walking into the room saying, what can I do? She's like, I want you to walk into the room and be like, hey, I'm doing this thing, X, Y, and Z. I know that that thing is taken care of. We both have to be tickering at the same time. So now I just have tickering sessions. I'll be like, hey, do you want to ticker with me? And we just talk through the day. What are we going to do today? Who's going to do what? And it was an invitation for me to step into a role.

And by the way, I'm a woman. They classify me as a nurturer. I should have stepped into this role like the history books have taught us. But no, though there are gendered roles in relationships and marriages, somebody's got to do it when you're in a homogenous relationship, in a homosexual relationship. So I don't know. I got off tangent there. I love that tangent though so much. Like my hands were in the air, half of your tangent, because I was just like trying to take in every word. Dax and I went through a similar thing. When we had kids, we had read this book, Brain Rules for Baby, and it talked about sharing the workload. And he is in commitment, everything I want him to be. In

practice, sometimes society influences him, but he's very open to hearing a critique about that. So like when we had kids and like, you know, the one-year-old is screaming and the three-year-old is up and it's midnight or something, there would be times where he made such a comfortable space that when his nurturing or his tickering didn't kick in automatically, I would turn over and I'd go, you're up. This is the practice of, this is on you. I did a bunch of stuff earlier and I don't want this mental load right now. I'm not going to pick up this mental load. And it was like a polite reminder that we had really agreed to do it 50-50. And it was just through a little bit of practice and sort of untraining that he became an incredible, incredible father. I can't emphasize enough how important it is

for the relationship between both parents to have this mentality, to have this practice in place, especially me coming in late to the party. I came in, I was like insta-parent. And had I not taken on this tickering as a true value of our family's ethics and how we roll as a group and a unit, I wouldn't be as close to our children. Because guess who sees the tickering? Guess who sees the impact of the time and the thought that goes into running a whole family? The children. Yes. Right? So like the kids, they know that I'm like the money person in our family. So when they need something, which I love. A budget.

They're like, hey, can I have this? Hey, can I have that? They don't bother Glennon with that. And they don't come to me when they need to, like, have their essays edited for school. Like, they go to Glenn. There can still be lanes. Yes. No matter what your gender is or what kind of relationship you're in,

there is nothing sexier you can do for your partner than to pick up some slack. I mean, it is the sexiest thing ever. And my, you know, one of my old roommates, Katie, had taken this class one time and it was like understanding men celebrating women or something crazy like that. It was like a relationships class. And one of the things she came home, she was like, do you know if you can drop the word protect

into a conversation with a man, he will be nicer to you for five days. And I was like, wait, what? And so full disclosure, started using it fully. We were walking the kids to preschool and we'd be holding our hands across the street. And I go, see how daddy's standing in between us in the car. He's such a good protector. And I would see his eyes light up. And it was like a windup toy because there are moments where, and I'm not going to simplify this to men. Every human on this earth can be very simple.

Even the smartest ones, they can be simple as hell. That's right. Absolutely. We actually just recorded a podcast a couple weeks ago, and Glennon's sister said something like that. She's just like, I am more inclined to have sex with you if you have taken something off of my to-do list without me having to tell you anything.

100%. I think sometimes this can sound manipulative or it can sound superficial. And it's not because what it's at the root of is saying, I see you. I see you. I know your needs and I'm going to fill in the gaps. It's not a gross thing to be like, this is a protector because you're saying, I see that he is protecting and I'm calling it out and making it known. And knowing that if I say it out loud, why wouldn't I do as his wife everything in my power to make him be in a good, happy mood? Feel good. Feel good.

Like, I'll say it in every other sentence. And he should do the same. Yeah. It just has to be equal. Well, and newsflash, like in any marriage that's over five years old, some of this stuff is required, right? It's like the cost of entry of a day in order to create, because we are firm believers in creating the life that you want and being capable of creating and being in power of having the life that you want.

And so some of these things, though they might seem superficial, like, I mean, Kristen, when you said that, I was like, wow, if Glennon ever said to me that I protect her, I have more masculinity in me in that way. Like my brain lit up. I was like, oh, that's a drug. Yeah. Yeah. You just got to drop that word in. I guess the seminar was great. What was it called again? I think it was called like Celebrating Women Understanding Men or something. That should have been the name of this podcast. I do want to go back though real quick to something you said about the pay gap.

Because I do think this is all so, so important and I don't want to skip over it, that part of the reason it's so hard is because currently at this stage, men are the ones that are hiring the women. That's right. So there is this inherent power dynamic and there is this inherent feeling of you have to be grateful. This person gave you a job. This person gave you a job. You should be grateful for that. You shouldn't be the one to try to usurp it or take a seat at the table next to them because they gave you the job. How dare you? So I do think there's right now this stumbling block and it's what you said. That's why we need more women in charge of bringing other women up. So this isn't an issue anymore. Yeah. And listen, I have a really interesting way, I think, that breaks this down very simply. So big business doesn't give a shit. They don't care about feelings, right? They care about money. They care about shareholders. They

care about the bottom line. It's about money. But here is what I think is starting to turn. Here is what I think is starting to turn. Most Gen Zers, millennials, they want to be a part of brands that have impact. That's not just about the product they're selling, that the brand that they're attaching themselves to and they're spending their money on makes them also feel something, right? And one of the things that big business is starting to wrap its mind around is hiring more women to get to some sort of 50-50. It is happening. Most businesses are hiring the same amount of men as women from the ground up. But when you start to get into the C-suite level positions, that's when you see the huge

discrepancies. Now, something has to give because a lot of these big companies are saying, well, there just aren't that many good women. And I'm just saying, I'm here. I'm telling you that that's bullshit. It's bullshit. It's because the system that's in place doesn't allow women the space or the network to be seen. How many business deals are happening in cigar bars and golf courses, whatever, and women aren't given privilege in those certain spaces. And then when you think about it from like a macro perspective, all these big businesses have to understand that every single idea that gets created by that business, if this little idea hasn't been filtered through the mind of every person that is going to consume the idea, then that specific idea is now going to be false on some level in some way. It's not going to ring true to every single person who's going to consume it. So from like a brand and consumer perspective, you're missing people who are going to buy up that product. Well, that's, it's a bad business move. It's like,

as evidenced by the Ambien studies, they only tested among guys because I don't know, it was like something about our periods or something. We didn't want to be involved in the study. Too messy. So they were blood everywhere. So they just tested it on men. And then guess what? Find out a couple years later that it was like, oh, shit. This type of drug affects women because of hormone levels way, way different. And that needed to be in the equation. I mean, I will say this, just to play devil's advocate for one second. Like, I know there are qualified women out there.

But I think what we're missing is the middle zone. The zone that takes women from an undergrad degree to the mentorship and the graduate degree needed. Or look, I don't know anything about college. I didn't even graduate. But I'm thinking that these are smart words to use to get them to that CEO position. Because if that middle isn't strengthened, there is going to be a time when the data supports them of like, yeah, but I tried to find all these qualified women and they didn't have the degree I needed. Well, okay. No, that's bullshit. That's bullshit though, Kristen. And I'm going to push back a little because what, what you're saying is that they have never given a man a job without being qualified. They keep giving men jobs. They keep

giving men promotions, especially white men, jobs, promotions, CEO seats before they're qualified. And so this is one thing that Glennon always tells me to do. She just always says, switch it. When I have an idea or I'm feeling like a certain way, she'll go switch it. And so I put it in the male's perspective. And men have been given opportunities before they were ready since the beginning of time. So why not actually implement those same practices with women?

You just took this to me, work I need to do. I'm an ambassador for the Women's Peace and Humanitarian Fund, leg of the UN. And all of the data is that if you have women in your business, it does better financially. Financially. So the bottom line improves. Believe me, I wrote a book called Wolfpack about this whole concept of creating networks for women that support other women. Listen, you're right in that so many of us are like, well, we need to make sure that the women are qualified because let's say that they get there and they're not going to be good enough.

That's our own fear. That's our own internalized misogyny coming out in certain ways. And I have been totally the worst at this. I mean, I had mostly male coaches my whole life. And then the second a woman coach came in, I was like, no, she's going to suck because she just hasn't had the training. She hasn't had the same experience. And that is what the world keeps teaching us. She was the best coach I ever had. And I had to buy into her at some point. But at first I was not sold.

I was like, this is going to go very badly. And nobody's going to listen to her like they would a man. She doesn't know as much as a man knows, right? And so it's like, we can't talk out both sides of our mouths. We can't be like, well, the women are required. What we do need to do is support women, supporting women, and find those networks and create those packs of women. Because it's the only reason I was able to succeed on the field.

It wasn't because I was damn good at soccer. It's because I was damn good and had damn good teammates. And if we could do that all over in every industry and every woman creates her own kind of wolf pack to make her better, stronger, faster in whatever industry we're talking about, the world would absolutely be better and the world would have more women leaders for sure. We are supported by is supported by Squarespace. We love Squarespace. You can turn your cool new idea into a new website. You can showcase your work. You can blog or publish content, sell products and services of all kinds. Armchair expert.com is a Squarespace website and it's incredible. What's nice about Squarespace specifically is you can sell anything online. Like they have a really good, powerful

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We're trying. We're very much trying. She is a trusted source for everyday elevated essentials. It's the essentials that stay in your closet. Yes. And she has a store that I was in the other day. It is breathtaking in there. It makes you feel calm, doesn't it?

Yes. And everything is like a perfect silhouette. It doesn't look too fussy, but it fits you perfectly. Oh, it's so good. And super duper duper soft. They're incredible. They're like cashmere cardigan I wear all the time.

They also have this crossover sandal that I've been wearing a ton. It's cotton and it's so comfortable. The summer dress, also the sundress for the season. It's like breezy, perfect. It can go from day to night, which is what you want in a ton of different shades that celebrate summer. And you can collect in every color. Amazing. Find your forever pieces at JennyKane.com and get 15% off your first order when you use code SUPPORTED at checkout. That's J-E-N-N-I-K-A-Y-N-E.com promo code SUPPORTED. You talk a lot about soccer being this great global unifier. If I can like umbrella the sports world for a second, it is dominated by personal achievement. I want to make the most baskets or nets. Do you make nets? Is that what you say? What do you say? Balls?

Goals. Goals. Goals. Goals. This is coming back around to, yeah, I don't say everything correctly. One time I told Dax that I drove a helicopter and he laughed for like three days. And I was like, first of all, there was a steering wheel. So get off my back. Okay. So it's all about personal achievement. Yet you have somehow infused into everything you do community and about uplifting the people around you and the women around you. but you're coming from something that seems like it would have trained you to focus more on yourself. This is interesting because nobody actually really asks the nitty gritty of this question. And I think the nitty gritty of this question is truly the crux of why our women's national team is so successful and interesting to watch. I've just

been so obsessed with how obsessed Glennon is with our women's national team. And we actually just kind of got down to it a couple of weeks ago. And she's like, you know what it is? I think it's because they aren't using their bodies as a form of currency. They are using their bodies as power, right? And because of that power, they earn money. as power, right? And because of that power, they earn money. Our women's national team has this unique culture that we are both equally embraced and celebrated for our individuality and our ability to collectively connect as a team, as one unit. And if you don't bring both of those dynamics, you don't survive. Every single person bringing their very best because I was specifically really good at heading the ball. I scored a lot of goals with my head and that is what I brought. But what was

so cool about our national team is we also talked about our weaknesses because when you're trying to build something, you can't have strength, strength, strength, strength. You have to actually have somebody that has a different dynamic so that you can actually fit together. And as a coach, when you're deciding who you're going to have on the team, those come into play, right? So this idea of being your very best individual self, believing that you're the best in the world, that mentality and culture was embraced, celebrated.

And also believing that somebody else was the best dribbler in the world. I didn't need that tagline. I got to put in my back pocket, I'm a goal scorer. I'm very good in the air. I'm strong. I wasn't going around being like, you know what? I'm slow. I never talked about my weaknesses because I had teammates around me that made up for that.

about my weaknesses because I had teammates around me that made up for that. That is what's so inspiring is because you see women not needing to have to be everything. And then when you combined all of those individual accomplishments and strengths, you find a literally an unbeatable team. There's so much that we can learn from just watching our women's national team play and celebrate themselves individually as women. It's counter to everything that we can learn from just watching our women's national team play and celebrate themselves individually as women. It's counter to everything that we've ever been taught. We are told as women, in order to rise to the top, you have to be everything. What you're saying is you don't. You can be great at what you're great at, and somebody else will be great at what they're great at. And it's not a competition. You can come together.

It really just like, to me, simplifies it in my brain. Like what a dumb, dumb idea to think that you should be the best at everything or that you are the best at everything. When you're marginalized, though, you do feel like you have to because it's like an analogy to race where people will be like, well, what do you mean black people don't have jobs? Look at Obama. Look at Denzel. It's like, okay, you're comparing the two extremes, you know, and you're not comparing every white male to their extreme. You're comparing them to their average. And it's the same with women. It's like, it's, you know, going back to Chris and what you're saying about

not having female CEOs in place until they're ready and us feeling like we have to be the very best in order to get there. Actually, no, because we don't need to compare ourselves to RBG. Right. Like we're not all going to be RBG. It doesn't mean we're not qualified for those top positions. That's so true. So our women's national team players, we genuinely were happy for each other when somebody succeeded. When Alex Morgan scored goals, I was like this, Alex, great goal. And guess what?

This is my opportunity to turn up my own volume. And I think women are afraid to turn up or be required to turn up their own volume to be able to achieve whatever kind of success that other women just had. It's this paralyzing place. Well, she just did it. I don't know if I can do it. Right. And I think that we have to be strong enough and confident enough in our own abilities that when someone else succeeds, that doesn't diminish the thing that you will succeed at. We need to have more women that keep wanting to turn up their own volume and not fall into the idea that their success then won't mean as much. I am going to genderize that. And I'm going to go out on a limb here again, because I do feel like what you're explaining right now, when like,

let's say Monica did something and I was like, well, she did it. That is, I think a little bit more uniquely female because there are so few spaces for us because- Sure. Of course. I know a hundred men off the top of my head who, if they saw something fabulous happen with another guy, they'd be like, I could do that. And it's like in them to be like, I could do that and I will. You know, like the confidence is there, but there are so few spots for women, for minorities, for anyone with a different sexual orientation, that it feels like there is a limited and finite amount of spots. So when someone else does it, you can't. And there is some, unfortunately, there is some reality to it.

Right, and it comes out of our reality, exactly. But we're here to try to let everybody know there's not going to be a finite amount because Glennon is going to push those forms back every time and teach us how to do this. But there are tinier things if you don't have a huge female community that you can do that I love, like vote with your dollars. Every dollar you spend is a vote. There are tons of websites and ways that you can find out. Support a female-owned business. Support a minority-owned business. Those things are labeled now, which I think is great. Buy from them. That is putting money in the pocket of a female or minority-owned entrepreneur's business and uplifting them. That's so they can uplift somebody else. That's exactly right.

And I just think that I want to do whatever I possibly can to make the world better than when I found it. That's my job. And also to make Glennon a little bit more comfortable in her life so that she can keep making the art that she makes that I think saves people, truly. I mean, it saved me and it keeps saving me. And I think it's important to acknowledge that if someone were to hear you say that,

there's an easy, sort of cheap conclusion to come to of like, but that's so much work. But I just want to stay loud and clear for people listening to this, trying to make things better than when you found it, whether it's emotionally or in your community, it comes with an amazing burst of self-esteem. So it's emotionally or in your community. It comes with an amazing burst of self-esteem. So it's not just more work. Like, oh, why would I try to make things better?

Because you're going to gain a ton out of that. You're going to feel fucking awesome about yourself. Your head's going to hit the pillow and you're going to be out. You're going to sleep so soundly. Well, one thing that Glennon talks about a lot that I think that a lot of women need to hear is one of the most valued ways of being as a woman is to be selfless. It blows my mind to literally be without a self is what the world expects of women, of mothers. That's my back tattoo for this one. And Glennon talks, we talk about this all the time. She's like, so here I am trying to create a self for the first time in her forties. I am not a mother. I am not a sister. I am not a daughter. I am a self.

I think it's so important that women hear that selflessness is not something to aspire to. It's something to run as far fucking away from as possible and to be full of yourself, right? Because think about the messages you're teaching your daughter to not require space, to not say the thing you're teaching your daughter, just be okay with whatever you've got, you know? And like, we're raising daughters that by the way, for teenagers, like they're hellish. They're hell. They're like, no, I don't want to do that. And we're like, that's right. That's what we're teaching you to be.

And it's making our lives miserable. But that's the kind of women we want them to grow into, you know, and it's harder at the beginning. But what it's teaching them is how to be in their own selves, in their own bodies, and to ask themselves, what do I want? These are all things that are so important that just get shamed out of us when we're kids. Thankfully, I had sports to require food into my body, but so many of us, my wife, food is just a huge thing for women, like to be small, to, oh, no, I don't want that. Oh,

no, I don't want that. But, no, I don't want that. But can I actually steal all of your fries that you just ordered? Like, they're my fries. You should have ordered your fries because you wanted fries. That's right. That's right. That's a marital problem in our world. Order your own damn fries. You blew past this. You said it in passing. It was just like woven into something you said, but I really want to revisit it. You said you have a deep fear of being stupid. Oh, you heard that. Yes, I do. I of course heard that. I do too. Yeah. Shame root belief system right there. Because I was a sports athlete my whole life

from a very young age, nobody told me to do this. I just put all of my worth in that. So I didn't really study hard. I hated school. In fact, I sucked really bad at it. I never graduated college. I went to three and a half years. And as soon as I had a chance to go make that $25,000 first salary playing pro soccer, I did. I left.

I went pro. You made the big bucks. That was 25K. It was big time. And so, yeah, I, for my whole life, have believed that I am not smart and that I don't have intellectual capacity. What I do know is I have real emotional intelligence and I'm very good at the sports and I'm learning to be smarter with the books and the intellectual ability. So yeah, my wife would probably break down this door right now and be like, you're one of the smartest people I've ever met. But the traditional book school smarts just

never jived with me. So I just have this belief system that I am not smart. But this is part of the whole issue, right? Because we have defined smart as being good at math, being good at getting a 1500, whatever it is now on your SAT, like very male driven, you know, ideals of what smart is. And prioritizing emotional intelligence. I would say, cause I have had a very similar trajectory to you, minus being good at any sports. Yeah, but you are very good at the acting and that shows and the singing. Okay, so yeah, that. The jazz hands entertaining, sure. And my husband is very book smart and he's very academic and he will tell you the moment

he meets you those qualities about himself. He needs you to know. He needs you to know. But that's also like, cool. I'm kind of like, look, I don't need to make him be humble. I want to be as confident as he is. You know, I don't want to be smaller or selfless. I want to have a full self. But I am, you know, picking up the books that he's reading and getting more into it. But what I have discovered is similarly to how you described the team is like, oh, I have him. Should I need a math question answered? But

my emotional intelligence is off the charts compared to his. And I have taken ownership of that. And I think that that's, you know, that's one of the things I love about you so much, because even in just like in watching everything you do, but especially your Barnard speech, the ownership you take of your qualities is so inspiring. And I have only over the last couple of years learned to own my emotional intelligence and go, yeah, well, that's what I have. And other people around me have something else. And that's why we're a team. Yeah. I mean, it's like, listen, in third grade, we were taught about Egyptian tombs in Egypt, right? No teacher was teaching us about sadness.

Or making an amends to someone and how to do it. of my life, the things that were going to be more interesting was the world that was happening inside of me and the emotions that I was feeling and like the touches and the connections that I was making with my friends. I mean, when I talk about school, I would actually just be like, hey, like, what did you think about that class? What did you think about what that teacher said? I wanted to know what they thought about the topic, not about the topic. That was more interesting to me. So I don't know. I just think that we have to rethink, you know, when we send our kids to school, because for me, I would have benefited way sooner. if somebody had been helping me work through what sadness and anxiety and fear were as a young kid. I would have worked through that. I would have learned. I would have had the words. I would have been able to maybe fix some of the problems. I'm hoping we'll get there. Our kids go to a charter school, and two days a week they have social-emotional learning, and they talk about problems that they have with their siblings. And they just introduce these global citizenship concepts at such a young age. A couple weeks ago,

they were in a drawing class, my second grader. And the teacher at one point said, you know, you want to draw a baseball cap if you want this character to be a boy, or you can draw pigtails if you want it to be a girl. And a student raised their hand, because I don't know the student's gender. The student raised their hand and went, is it okay if our picture is non-binary? And the teacher went, yes, absolutely. And it was like not a stop down, not in anything. They all know what non-binary means. And I was like, oh yeah, maybe there is hope. Because these concepts are getting through to them about how to handle social emotional situations. That's right. And I think what's so beautiful about it is they're learning how to accept themselves, which means they're able to accept others.

Like you can't really accept others until you've accepted yourself. That is right, Monica. I think we're getting there with these little peeps. I like to think sometimes 100 years down the road, what are the things we are going to be most embarrassed about? So many things. And so many other cultures, folks like me, who in some ways have been marginalized and oppressed. I didn't make as much money as a soccer player as I could have had I been straight and long haired. Truly.

Yeah. Like that's a reality for me. But, you know, I feel like in other cultures, people like me are like revered and set aside and like celebrated. You know, I just hope for that next Abby, the next person that comes through, that they are revered and celebrated for their perfect selves. Because, I mean, all of the labels and stuff are kind of just bullshit. And I think over time, they're going to go away. I think we have to go through that turbulence because you were forced to go through it on your own. Come to terms with all these things, who you were in the world, in soccer, as a woman, as a gay person.

The younger generation who is demanding specificity that is exactly Glennon pushing those forms back. Going, no, no no these should both say person yeah because there's just person yeah but it's because of people like you who are making the younger generations demand so we are thankful very well I think all the thanks should go to Glennon for helping me push my own self because that's what our partners can be great for too, is just mirrors like, hey, here's maybe something that you're blinded to or something that you're not getting truly honest with yourself about. That's what I think having an amazing partner is good for, is like somebody who will hold standards. And, you know, Glennon and I wrote

marriage vows and we come back to those vows every single January of every year. And we interpret them in different ways every year because life changes. And so we rewrite them, and it is a practice of ours. And Kristen, I know that you and Dax, I know Dax takes a moral inventory of his life. And that's something that we do every single night in bed. Like, how was your day? How does your heart feel? Are there any secrets that you are taking with you into this night?

You know, like all of these things matter. Like who we spend our time with. How much time are you spending with the people that make you feel good about yourself? The people that don't make you feel good about yourself? You have the power to change that. You have the power to create your environment. You have the power to think differently. You have the power to care about somebody's pronouns.

And you also, by the way, have the power not to. And you also, by the way, have the power not to. And so my hope is to motivate people to feel like they can be a part of the positive progression of humanity instead of the opposite. We appreciate you so much and your time. So much. I have to end on saying, like, we can't leave without you knowing you're smart. You're so smart. You're so smart. You gave us so much of your brain today

and we appreciate it. You used a lot of big words. That's not what it means. That's not what smart, let's redefine it. It doesn't mean big words. I thought we were complimenting her academically because that's what she was working on. All of it.

I'll take all of it. I'll take all of it. I'm going to take that, Kristen. I'm going to take this, Monica. Thank you very much. We couldn't appreciate more that you made time for us because we know you're so busy. And also, if anybody wants to see more of Abby, Abby has an amazing show called Abby's Places on ESPN Plus, and it's awesome. Well, I love what all that you guys do in the world.

Keep kicking ass, and I am here. We need to see each other and meet in real life, meet in person someday soon. Yes, please. Love you guys. Bye.