Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - We are supported by... Diane von Furstenberg

Episode Date: July 23, 2021

We are supported by, hosted by Kristen Bell and Monica Padman is a 10 episode limited series podcast. Each episode deep dives with a woman who has put a crack in the glass ceiling. Episode 5: Diane von Furstenberg Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to We Are Supported By. We are supported by? Yes, we got a new name. I like it. Why do we have a new name? Because we got a cease and desist letter. So now we are supported by. That's right. And we don't want to step on anyone's toes, so here we are. And we are supported by, today, a mega mogul.

Someone who has been running her own business for 52 years, built it from the ground up. She is Diane von Furstenberg, the one, the only. Her commitment to fashion has not only changed the way women dress, but also have stayed iconic. Like she's the only designer whose original dress is still out there. It's still the number one seller, and it is the wrap dress. And she's done very cool things. What I love so much about her is not just all her accomplishments, but she is a storyteller.

She is. And a feelings person, which I enjoy, by trade. So she wanted a piece of wardrobe to make you feel something as a woman. And that wrap dress did. It made you feel comfort, but it also made you feel sexy and confident and not too revealed. And that's why the dress has stuck around. And, you know, a couple years ago, she did something amazing. It was like a book of stories about how the wrap dress had affected you or what it meant to you, what your first experience was with a Diane von Furstenberg wrap dress. Her fashion design is much, much more than a thing, a material object. It is.

It's very representative of being a woman. Yeah. Being a comfortable woman who owns it. That's one of her main aphorisms she comes to over and over again, which is own it. And talking to her was so special. But when I went back into edit it and I got to hear it a second time, I was like, man, she is so smart and powerful and she does own it. And it really is infectious. I closed that edit and I was like, I feel empowered just having heard her words. She really shines her empowerment light on people. She is also the past chairwoman of the Council of Fashion Designers of America, the CFDA, which she held from 2006 to 2019. She, in 2014, was listed as the 68th most powerful woman in the World by Forbes. 68th Most Powerful Woman. And in 2015 was included in

the Time 100 as an icon by Time Magazine. She, in 2016, was awarded an honorary doctorate from the New School and in 2019 was inducted into the National Women's Hall of Fame. There is really nothing she can't do and it is because of her creativity and presence to own it. So without further ado, we are supported by Diane von Furstenberg. We are supported by, is supported by, Bourbon Time. Hashtag Bourbon Time. It's a movement calling attention to burnout that we've all been feeling over the past year and just reclaiming the hour of six to seven as your own personal restorative me time. Now, for me, six to seven, I definitely always have a cocktail in my hand when I'm watching Peaky Blinders.

It's very necessary and it is Maker's Mark. Makes me feel part of the show. And I'm going to try to start doing that from six to seven so I can sort of overlap my Peaky Blinders watch with hashtag bourbon time. It's a good time of day to unwind. I feel like normally happy hours like four to five, but you kind of still got to do shit during four to five. So six to seven is the time. Yeah. And I feel like with the loss of the commutes from work to home, many of us lost like the natural reset of the day. And it just contributes to that burnout feeling. So our friends at Maker's Mark have a solution for the exhaustion from work to home. Many of us lost like the natural reset of the day and it just contributes to that burnout feeling.

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We're gonna feel it all and gonna let you fall, gonna make it. Hi. Hi, Diane. How are you? I'm good. Where are you? We are in East Los Angeles. We're so excited to chat with you. I'm very excited. Did you get my little book? It hasn't come yet. Was it sent? Oh, I don't know. Okay, let me tell you. Here it is. It's called Owner the Secret to Life. I made it like a little dictionary. I love that.

Yeah, it's like a gift. And basically, if you own your imperfection, they become your asset. And I wrote it during COVID. Everything brings you back to the fact that no matter what happens, you got to own it. Yeah. Is it pieces of advice or is it more stories of your life? Read us some. Well, so this little book, my editor came and they wanted me to do a little book of advice because they know how much I love to give advice and I love aphorism. And I said, okay. So I started and then COVID came. So I'll read you if you want the introduction. Yes, please. Words have power. We must use them carefully.

They create energy, define us, impact our lives and the path we take. My mother was strict about using the right words, and she loved to use and create aphorism, a habit I inherited. When I was first approached by my editor to do a book on these fragments of truth, I immediately accepted. Sharing my experience, knowledge, and wisdom is my favorite thing to do. And at my age, it's allowed and hopefully inspiring. To achieve this task, I picked words that speak to me most and reflected on their meanings. To put order in my thought process, I decided to organize them as a little dictionary. It was going to be a fun and light exercise

on the verge of being frivolous. But as I was in the midst of writing, COVID-19 pandemic happened and with it, home confinement and a new reality. All of a sudden, every word, every sentence took a whole other dimension and everything became deeper, more meaningful. Like everyone else, confinement forced me to pause and made me re-evaluate who I was and what mattered most. Whether personally or in my business, I had to confront what was not right anymore and accept what had to change. I had to face all the difficulties I was encountering and own them. To own it is to

accept the truth and deal with it, however unpleasant it may be. It's about being in charge. It's the secret to life. To be in charge is not an aggressive statement. It is the first and foremost, a commitment to ourselves. It is accepting and standing for who we are. We own our imperfections. They become our assets. We own our vulnerability. It becomes our strength. To be in charge is the core of our power. It is the shelter we carry, the home inside ourselves. Once we achieve that, we are able to connect, expand, inspire, and advocate. Obviously be ordering more than one copy because I know quite a few people who could benefit from a book like this. And from the idea of being in charge. And I know

you've said you always design in that headspace. When I was growing up, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I knew the kind of woman I wanted to be. I wanted to be a woman in charge. I wanted to have a man's life in a woman's body, right? And I became that woman because of a little dress. And the more confident I would get, the more confidence I was selling with the dresses. You know, I was very young. I was in my early 20s. So then people say, who is the woman you're dressing? And I always said the woman in charge, right? And then about

two years ago, because I had for International Women's Day, I always do a big thing. And I had this t-shirt with in charge printed on it. And I realized that some people thought in charge was aggressive. And so I thought about it. And that's when I realized that to be in charge is not aggressive. It's a commitment to yourself. It's owning who we are. And then I started to create this movement. And so originally, this little book was going to be called In Charge. And then instead, it became Own It, The Secret to Life. It's so interesting that people took it as aggressive. My knee jerk is that they took it as aggressive because it was a female saying it.

Oh, yes. It's totally men who thinks it's aggressive. I don't think any woman thinks that it's aggressive. But it's very important. You know, I was a feminist before your mother was born, I'm sure, or close to it. So I've been a feminist all my life. But as we take power, I just saw today, there's two women who were named big generals in the army. of our next step is I think we have to remember we shouldn't push men away, but let men in and let them understand and exercise their own feminine energy. Yes. Big time. We've been talking about this particular nuance of that issue for quite some time. And there was a brilliant documentary made by Governor Newsom's wife, Jennifer Newsom,

called The Mask You Live In. And it's all about telling the story of these middle school boys and the perspective that they feel they cannot express their vulnerability and how sad and caged they feel because they feel nervous to talk about sadness and vulnerability with their friends. And it's like, oh, yeah, that's a a big part of this too. And we also talk a ton about the women's movement. It has to be about uplifting women to a man's level, not necessarily trying to bring all the men down and just punish them. Like it's about the equality of lifting up the one who has been lowered. It is not equal because we are stronger. So let's just start by that. Real talk. Okay. So the truth is we're not equal and we are two different animals and we are

stronger and we are the nurturers and we are much more used and equipped to balance things, right? I mean, I don't think men would be that comfortable having period every month. But there is an inequality in terms of jobs, in terms of things in society and all of that. So we have to empower women. We have to make women feel in charge and be confident. And then when you are confident, you realize you don't just have to throw it at somebody's face. But I was thinking also that there are

some men who want that. So to embrace the feminine energy is my next. I hadn't thought about it. This is only three days old that I've been thinking about that. We're in on the ground floor. So excited. Yeah, I think that's really important. And it's a part of the conversation that gets left out a lot that men have to be included in the conversation. And there's no way to progress without their help. We need it. It's also because we are together. We like each other's company. The truth is we shouldn't be needing. One of the things that I really, really, really advocate is that the most important relationship is the one you have with yourself. the one you have with yourself. Once you have a good relationship with yourself, any other relationship is a plus and not a must. It's very important that no relationship is a must. To be

needy is incredibly unattractive and not sexy. I read your first book. That was the message on every single page for me. The relationship with yourself is the most important one. And without that, every other one will fail or is useless. But one thing I loved that you hit, and I wrote down the quote, was the sort of nuance of the relationship with yourself in allowing yourself to change and grow or maybe even ebb before you flow because you wrote, no one goes through life with one rigid personality. We are all far more complex with various needs and desires that present themselves at different stages in our life. And I felt so empowered with that statement because what I needed at 20 was not what I

need now. And there were moments when I had rebellious phases in my life that I don't regret at all that I needed and wanted. And now I want something different. And I think that especially when we're talking about the context of, you know, feminism or men and women were so prone to put things into boxes. If a woman doesn't want to be in charge for moments of her life, and she wants to just be on someone else's ride, that may be what she needs at that moment. But she's still in charge. It's a choice. It's a commitment to myself. I decide I want to do that. But it's not that you surrender to somebody else. You just accompany them at that time of your life. You may want to

be a companion first, but you're not surrendering. You're still in charge. You're in time of your life, you may want to be a companion first. Right. But you're not surrendering. You're still in charge. You're in charge of your decision. But as others might view feminism, it may feel like, well, that person's not in charge. I just liked the nuance of getting to, it's you know your own personal needs. And you know whether you might want to be a companion in this moment or be something else in this moment as far as the phases in your life. But you should never lose yourself. And it is very tempting at times, you know.

We like the idea. I mean, it's an erotic fantasy, you know. You like to, you know, surrender. You could do that, but it's only a fantasy. You can't get caught into it. Yeah. And being adored or pleasing. Can I tell you something? You hit me with a piece of real talk that you're never going to remember, but sticks out in my mind so much that truly helped me break down a major barrier in my codependency. So I don't know what year it was, but I was in your office because I was your Met Gala girl. I'm sure someone fell out. I think

JLo must have fallen out because there's no other reason I would have gotten the job. But I was going as under you wearing your dress to the Met Gala. And this was must have been 15 years ago, 10 or 15 years ago. I was like just a very new on the scene actress, and I was getting fitted in your office. And I'd already obviously told Shauna and Edward, I was like, I'm going to go meet Diane in her office. I'm so excited. I'm getting fitted in this beautiful sort of tiered watercolor patterned violet and off-white dress, and it had a big ball gown. And it was just beautiful. It was such a fantasy for me. And we were chatting, and all your girls were there, and they were fitting it, and you were at your office doing work, and I was sort of just monitoring you, looking and going, wow,

this woman, yes. And I was telling the story about how there is a sock company called K-Bell, and my name is Kristen Bell, and how often I get the gift of K-Bell socks and how the person who has purchased the gift always hands it to me with this sly smile like something extraordinary is about to happen. And I was laughing about the fact that I always have to sort of say, oh, wow, thank you so much. And you looked up from your desk and you go, you don't have to say that. Just say, I've received these before. Thank you so much. And then you put your head down and I was like, I guess I could say that. That would be so freeing because I was very much born a codependent and I've struggled with it my whole life. I do feel like I've put a cap on it over the last 10 years. Who were you codependent to? I don't know that

the codependency was installed by any one person. I mean, maybe my mom, but there was a generalized fear of not being liked because I enjoyed the feeling of being liked so much and hated the feeling of being rejected and disliked that my brain early on just made the connection of, oh, stay in this zone, stay in the like zone. And I started to, I think, very early on form habits as a young girl that were people pleasing. And I don't know if it was that the fear was too large or the rejection was too much. I don't know what it was, but only like in my early 30s did I start to realize I'm competent and no one can make me feel inferior without my consent. And I'm allowed to

say things and not worry so much about what the other person thinks of me. But when you told me not to say that about the socks, I thought about that for weeks. That's so liberating. I mean, it was like I didn't know it was an option to say that. It's definitely an option. Yeah. It's funny how it's a tiny little thing that someone may say to you that somehow provokes that. It's very interesting. It was also that like you were someone that I had already looked up to and that you said something very simple that was such an obvious choice that for some reason my brain couldn't connect. But you also, oh, sorry, I'll stop talking about this like beautiful experience that I had when I was 29. But you

also gave me your personal bracelet to wear with the dress, this thick, thick chain link bracelet that was all colored in different stones, teeny, teeny, tiny paveavé. I know. Rainbow. Of course you know. It was gorgeous. Wow. Your personal bracelet? Yeah. She went into like her closet in a safe. Oh my gosh. Again, I thought I was like.

I thought I was dreaming the whole time. Oh my God. Well, it's also lovely that you saw this person that you respect, but also this person that's uber successful. Oh yeah. Was able to do that without being a people pleaser. Was able to achieve that status without deferring. Yes. Which had been my only mode of operation. Because you've never been like that, right? Do you feel like you've ever?

Am I a people pleaser? No, I don't know. Obviously, I like to be appreciated and liked for sure. But I think I have to please myself first. I have to feel comfortable about what I'm doing. A very wise man told me something. He said he was a little boy with his grandmother and they had survived the Armenian genocide. And she told him to this little boy, she said, there are two things to remember in life. One is kismet, which is destiny. And you have very little control to your destiny, but you have your character and your character is the only thing that you have complete control of. You could lose your health, your wealth, your beauty, your freedom, everything.

But you never lose your character, even under torture. And that was one of the most meaningful things anyone has ever told me. Yeah, wow. You know, my mother was a prisoner of war when she was 22. She was in concentration camp in Auschwitz. And she always told me, I looked at the German in the eyes. She survived. Wow. She weighed 49 pounds when she survived. Oh, my God. Yeah. I was a child of a survivor. And so my mother was really, really tough. Like she would not allow me to be afraid.

If I was afraid of the dark, she would lock me in a dark closet. Today, she would get arrested. She would lose my custody. But it was the most wonderful because you go in a closet. First of all, you know, it doesn't stay dark. Within five minutes, you could see a little bit. And even if it does stay dark, why would you be afraid of the dark? So my mother pushing me always, never telling me to be careful, always go for it, making me responsible for myself.

That was just an incredible gift because she made me strong. I think she's really special because I think it could have gone another way. If you have experienced that kind of trauma, I would expect that person to pass on, do be afraid. Like at any moment, something could happen to you. So the fact that she turned that into strength. Own it. Yeah, own it. You are afraid of the dark? Okay, I'm going to show you what dark is.

And you go in the dark closet and then you say, oh, it's like, for example, she told me fear is not an option. Okay. I was not allowed to be afraid. So I tell people, take your fear and throw it in the waste paper basket. It doesn't change anything in your situation. Whatever challenges you're encountering, you still have the same challenges, but not having the fear makes it so much better. Do you think that in Belgium, where you're from, that gender ideals are different

than this country? It's all the same. You know, we are two different animals and men have other worries. So much is about men have erections. Women don't have erection and men are absolutely fixated on, you know, did I, will I, should I, how was I? That builds an incredible insecurity that is so different than us. I always think that the worst thing that has happened to women in the last 15 years is Viagra. Because, you know, before there was some kind of justice. After a certain age, women could not have children and men had other problems. Anyway, we are two different animals. And what we have to do is we have to focus on what we have in common. And mostly we have to respect one another. And the best thing we could do is how we bring up our son. Yes. You have a son, right?

I have a son who is 51 and who is very attractive, very kind, very everything. What do you think moving forward for people who have boys, what's the prescription? It's just respect women, respect women's strength. Listen, I was so happy I was born a woman. I never for a second wanted to be a man. I want to be able to have a man's life. Like I was young in the seventies at the time that we thought we invented freedom. And it was that, that moment in time that was after the pill was invented and before the arrival of AIDS. So we were very, very free and having a great time.

And I felt like, why? Why can men do that and not women? Why do we have to wait? Is he going to call me? Let him worry if I call him. Uh-huh. to wait. Is he going to call me? Let him worry if I call him. Uh-huh. I know when I was doing my research on you, it was so interesting to see. There's always like a sprinkling of Diane von Furstenberg had a lustrous love life. Like one of the quotes is, in her younger days, she experimented

tossing men left and right. And I'm just like shaking my head at all of this. Like, but you're not saying it about the men who are doing that exact same thing. No, but in a certain way, I wanted to make a point of that. I wanted to. I was proud of that. And I'm still proud. You should be, yeah.

I had lots of flings. I used to say affairs. And then I only recently, I found out that an affair is supposed to be with a married man. I didn't know that. So now you say flings. So in my book, I said I had so many affairs, but what I meant is love stories. We are supported by is supported by Third Love. Bras, bras, bras, bras, bras.

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Nothing is more important. Love is caring, sharing, and giving unconditionally. It is being thankful and paying attention to others. Love is owning it. And then for life, I wrote, life is existing, growing, creating, and owning it. But the truth is that you have to make love to give life, right? So love and life are so linked. You love life. You wake up and you are grateful for life. You're grateful for the sun. You're grateful for spring to arrive, for beautiful sunset. You know, that is life, but it's also love. They're so interchangeable. I love that. I have a question

about this current climate, because in your first book, you talked about specifics you gave about traveling and traveling with your children. And I loved when you talked about traveling with your children was important because you were no longer sort of the parent. You were experiencing something together with them. And you'd say, oh, we're looking at this together. But what has this sort of blanket we've all been under of COVID done to that part of your spirit? It's very funny because I'm born on New Year's Eve. So on New Year's Day last year, I did something I wanted to do all my life, is I went to Easter Island, which is as far as you can go. It's five hours on a plane from Chile, who already is so far.

And I went alone. I had the most wonderful time because I have traveled all my life. I pack every three days because I move every three days. I go to the country, I come back to the city. And now because of the pandemic, I have been here since last March, other than the moments that my husband kidnaps me to go on the boat, which is very nice. But other than that, I am here. And I bought this house when I was 26 years old with my first money. And therefore, I have been

in this house all my life. Men have come in, men have gone. Children were little, children were big. Grandchildren were little, grandchildren were big. And the house is the same. And it's almost like for the first time, 47 years later, after I have this house, that I think that I fully possess it. It's just been wonderful. I've been with myself. I have this beautiful studio, which is very large and lots of books.

And so I can talk and I can think, you know, we all were forced to this strange moment where the world is completely closed. It's almost like a biblical event. So when things like that happen, we have to own it. We have to say, okay, this is a forced pause. How will I use this forced pause? And I have used it. And I've actually loved it. I mean, I feel terrible because I know how many people don't have a roof, how many people don't have the luxury,

and how many people lost their job and all of that. But to me, it's been so enriching. Yeah. And your life moves so fast and has been moving so fast for so long that in your house, that's remained steady while all of this stuff has changed and changed and changed. And you get to kind of sit in it and be like, oh my God, look at this vessel for which my whole life has existed. It's beautiful. And that's why it was so incredible to write that book at that time. And because they were words and they all had definition, I realized how it was like a summum of my own life. And I realized that the great thing about my life, I think, is that I've always practiced truth and mostly to myself. And I'm very rigorous about not trying not to be delusion and not lie to myself. And that has been

enormously helpful. And the other thing is I like coherence, you know, like the books on the bookshelves, the food in my refrigerator, the children I have, the friends I have, they all reflect who I am, you know, and I like that. It's coherence. And then when you look back all these years, you say, yeah, I actually always said the same thing. So anyway, that's what this book is about. Real quick, going back to what you said, that we need to find the commonalities between men and women. What do you think some of those are for us to remember? We are more the same than we are different.

Just pay attention and respect the other. Respect, but also not fear, right? Not fear the other. You said so clearly that we're the stronger of the two, which I think is true. And I think that's where some of the fear comes from on their part. I think everyone really does know that that is true. And so there's been this patriarchy built to prevent

us from really taking over. What would we do if we could actually experience our full power? What would we do? Yeah, well, we got a big task ahead of us. We got to save the world. Yeah. Well, you're doing pretty great work in that arena. I mean, you have a foundation. Well, women is really my center. I'm on the board of this great organization called Vital Voices that was originally founded by Hillary Clinton when she was the first lady. And that is the leading global network of women's leader. So I have been very involved in that. And then 11 years ago,

I created the DVF Awards, where I give exposure and money to women. And in order to get exposure to these women, I give the Inspirational Award to people who are celebrities or who will attract coverage so that the others who people don't know will benefit from that. So whether it's Alicia Keys or Karlie Kloss. And then, of course, we have the Lifetime Awards that went to Anita Hill and Jane Goodall last year to RBG. My impact now for the rest of my life, what is most important for me is that I can use my voice, my experience, my knowledge, my story, and my connections in order to help other women to be the women they want to be. You're also really involved in the Highline Project, right? My family and I, we are responsible for the Highline. And that is such an incredible gift. In your writing or what I know about you,

there's this beauty to you where you're able to recognize the gloriousness and the beauty of the fast-paced everything, but also of the stillness. And that High Line provides so much stillness and integrity to that side of New York. And it was a dream. When I started my company again, second time, 20 years ago, I moved to the West Village. And at the time, it was all butchers and meatpack and it smelled bad. And everybody said, what are you doing there? And so when you move into a new neighborhood, you meet new people and new friends. And I met these two young guys who had this dream of saving this elevated railroad that went, you know, all the way to the west side and turn it into a park. So I hosted their first fundraising.

And then, you know, we all got very involved and we all got very excited. And then we ended up making it happen. Yeah. And now our family, my husband mostly, has created this new little park on an old pier called Pier 55. And it's going to be a little park open to the public. It will be called the Little Island. It will also have open air theater. And so hopefully, it will be a wonderful gift to the city. That's awesome. Yeah, that's very cool. And you ask people about what they want to pursue in their life charitably or philanthropically. And I'm talking about people who don't necessarily do it on a daily basis like you do. The topic of parks is rarely in the top five.

It's like clean water, arts, foster care kids. But I will say they're not to be discounted. I mean, we're trying to save Barnsdale Park here in East Los Angeles, and it's a big issue. But there's so much joy that comes out of having a common area in a community that is communing with nature. That's also something that happened with COVID. Two big, huge phenomena happened.

On one side, everybody got closer to nature, for sure. And on the other side, we went acceleration of five to 10 years into the virtual world. You could be alone in nature, but you have your phone and you're connected. I can watch any movies. I could read any books. I could study. I can learn. I can communicate. So I think that we are actually living in a very exciting time. And I am very curious. I think that this pandemic will have been a major earthquake that will, you know, change society and the way we do so many things. On one side, nature is pulling us, and on the other side, we are pushed into the world of AI and virtual. Yeah. I have an armchair theory that the pandemic happened.

The universe gave us this to shake everything up, to remind us that change is necessary and that we have to adapt because soon we all like really have to get super gung-ho about climate change. You know, Bill Gates has this book and it's talking about how we have to get to zero, not just reduce. I was reading it and I was like, oh, my God, this is going to require a huge change and a huge adaptation from everyone. And of course, it's a huge shake up.

Yes. We Are Supported By is supported by BetterHelp Online Therapy. I had it three times this week. You did? Yes. How did it go? Great. I really don't think I could go on without it. Not just when you're in the middle of some crisis, but in general, just keeping a tune up on that brain. Maintenance, tune ups. And as we start to come out of COVID and we're all rearranging our life in public and in private,

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We are supported by is supported by Rothy's. You just went on a trip and I think you took Rothy's with you, didn't you? I did. I brought my big Rothy's bag. It fits absolutely everything. I brought my Rothy's slip-on shoes. You can also throw them in the washer. Oh, and Rothy's newly launched men's shoes, which are intentionally designed with an artisanal level of detail and created with nearly zero waste. We love nearly zero waste. We do. And the fact that they're washable and better for the planet, plus they've had like rigorous testing during R&D, results in a perfect fit wash after wash. Start your summer off on the right foot with comfortable bestsellers like flats and loafers and sneakers with sandals in an array of colors and shoes made for exploring. Their newest styles have you covered. Plus, their spacious washable bags are

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the fashion world. But you know, when I first started with this little dress, people didn't take me seriously. Other designers say, oh, what is this little dress? And they're right. What is this little dress? It's just a little piece of dress. But for me, how I became a designer is I always put the woman first. For me, it's the woman that matters, not the fashion. And the fashion is what you put around yourself. And then there's something about my dresses and particularly that dress is that you put it on, you tie it around your body, and you feel something happens. And therefore, if you feel good, then you are confident, then you are beautiful. That's what I always tell the designers who work for me. DVF is the friend in the closet, is the best friend, the most reliable friend in the closet.

That is how I like to be identified. And one day I remember somebody, I don't remember who, but somebody said that the rub dress is the dress you get the guy in and his mother doesn't mind. Oh, perfect. And his mother doesn't mind. Oh, perfect. It's sexy enough to get the guy, but not vulgar. So his mother agrees with it. I love that.

Me too. It's iconic. There's museum exhibits in the Met. It's so amazing that fashion, because I do think sometimes it gets, you know, fashion. Because I do think sometimes it gets, you know, washed away. Fashion is like a female thing or like a girly thing or not important. But it can have incredible emotional significance. What is fashion? Fashion is the reflection of the time, right? Fashion is also in food, in houses, in architecture. Fashion is in everything, you know. But this particular dress I created in 74. So it's almost 50 years old and people still buying it. It's never happened to a dress to have that long of a life. I know. And that just goes to show you're right. It's not about the fashion

element. It's about how women feel when you. You're dressing them from the inside out. Yeah. You've also had, with your husband, you talk so beautifully about your… Which husband? Which husband are we talking about? Your current husband. Okay. I mean, you talk eloquently about all of them,

and you give them so much respect for the love that they gave and the significance they had in your life, but particularly the one you have now, Barry, has the relationship taken on many different meanings for the years that you guys have been together? I met Barry, I was 28, he was 32. I was on the top of my success and he was chairman of Paramount. We were two top of the world wonder kids and all of that. We fell madly in love. We stayed together for five years and then I left him quite brutally. But he always stayed in my life. As a matter of fact, the other men I had after were always jealous of him and not the other way around. And at the end,

he won. He waited for me. And somehow both of us knew that we would end up together. And we did. And we married 20 years ago. And we had known each other 26 years. known each other 26 years. And he gave me 26 wedding bands for the 26 years that he had waited. I mean, in the relationship with Barry, I will say that he has 80% of the credit. But looking back now, I just said, my God, we have the best relationship in the world. And you're never totally sure of that until you look back. Because it sounds like there's a lot of respect. A lot of respect. We both enjoy very much being on our own. Even sometimes when we are together, you know, he does his thing, I do my thing.

There's a great respect of each other's privacy and of each other's space. And that is probably why it's working. That's an incredible thing to strive for. Each person in the relationship to be self-reliant in order to make the relationship what it can be. Both people have to be confident in that space in order to allow for the other person to have their own identity. Yeah. Jealousy also is something that is not good at all. You want to know, should we look what I wrote for jealousy? Yes, please. All right. As I said, this is a little dictionary, this book. So it's after I,

joy, justice, jealousy. Jealousy is a very toxic feeling that should be pushed away. Never comparing ourselves to others and instead focusing on being the best we can will free us from jealousy. My personal recommendation to avoid jealousy is never ever look at anyone's phone or personal mail. There's absolutely nothing to gain there. Is that a lesson learned from experience?

Yes. When I was 12, I opened a letter that was addressed to my mother. And she got very upset with me. And I've never looked at anyone's, not my children, not nobody. Yeah. I've had a few of those experiences as well. There's nothing to gain. Yeah. It backfires. I'm finding it particularly hard right now because my six-year-old just started a diary, a secret diary, and she's just learning to read and write, but my God, is she picking it up quickly. And it is so hard not to want to know the thoughts, not to exploit them in any way, but I'm justifying in my brain, like I could help raise her. And I'm like, nope, stay away. It's her, that's her place

to flood it with whatever emotions she wants. Let me tell you, one of the reasons that I never had to go to therapy is because I have kept my diary all my life. There is nothing more helpful than writing your diary. And when I opened it, it's always, I'm always at the turning point. It looks like all I've done is turn. One of my favorite words is provocative. I love the sound of it. It tickles. It's a combination of question and affirmation. Nothing is more provocative than speaking the truth and revealing our imperfection. The provocative part gets the attention, but the truth gets respect.

When I first started my company in my early 20s, I did a lot of personal appearances around the world. LA, Philadelphia, Detroit, Miami, San Francisco, it all sounded so new and exotic to me. A young European Park Avenue princess coming to town to show her easy, affordable little dresses is how I was introduced by the local press everywhere. I did not love that definition. That's when I decided to become a bit more provocative in my narrative to show that I was not perfect. The words became mine and the story no longer a fairy tale. Oh my God. That's so wonderful. Do you have a definition of woman in there? Woman. We all look at the woman across the room with admiration at work, in a public place, at a party. She looks so composed, secure, and confident. But it is important to know and remember that to her, each one of us

is the woman across the room. Oh, my goodness. That is beautiful. Yeah. And it's true. That's really, really, really important. Oh, man. Oh, I love that we are ending on these words of wisdom. And I hope everyone gets your book. Own it. And reads these definitions once and then turns back to them when necessary. Thank you so much for chatting with us. Thank you, girls. You are wonderful. You're wonderful. And I hope I come and visit you. My daughter lives in East LA. Yes. All right. God bless you and stay as in charge as ever. Thank you so much for joining us. Bye. Bye.