Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - We are supported by... Malala Yousafzai

Episode Date: June 30, 2021

We are supported by, hosted by Kristen Bell and Monica Padman is a 10 episode limited series podcast. Each episode deep dives with a woman who has put a crack in the glass ceiling. Episode 2: Malala Yousafzai Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh, good. The Supreme Court denied listening to the case on transgender bathrooms, which means the victory from the lower court stays intact. Oh, that's exciting. Very exciting. That's great. Because look, pee where you want to pee. Yeah, who cares? I don't need to tell you where you need to pee. You can pee where you want to pee, where you feel safest peeing or pooping. Especially pooping. God.

No one should have to poop in an uncomfortable place. I have to poop in a very faraway location every time I'm here. I know. Oftentimes, you say, peace out. It's time. I'm rumbling. And then we don't see you for a little bit because you've chosen the furthest bathroom from wherever we are.

Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. I don't have that. Yeah, you don't. You're very free in your bowels. But I think that's also because my pooping takes 15 seconds. I don't even know what I would do in there for longer than 15 seconds. It's like they go, we're up, and then we're out.

And you don't feel like there's some left? In my bowels? Yeah. No. It's a release valve. It all comes out, and then it's done. This is a vegetarian diet. That's why. Probably. Yeah vegetarian diet. That's why.

Probably. Yeah. Maybe. Um, hi. Hi. Welcome back to We Are Supported by Episode 2. And this one's just as fun, if not more. Any thoughts from the week?

You had a big week. Oh, Lord. Oh, Lordy. We had the week of all week. Well, Monday was the worst day in show business. Which is saying something. You've been in show biz for quite a while. Yeah. Combined, Dax and I were, well, let's see. Yeah. 19 and then he's about 25. So we're rounding out 40, then yours. We're looking at 45.

So we're going to go ahead and say in a total combined 45 years, it was the worst day in show business. But that's, you know, we're shooting a game show right now. And it is a different beast than anything else. It's a different beast in general. And it's a brand new show. There's lots of kinks. I think in a game show, there's going to be more kinks than otherwise. And I don't know why we didn't recognize on paper in the pre-production meeting

that when they said, so we're going to do this game where if you get a wrong answer, we're going to dump a huge bucket of ice and water on your head. And then you can do up to three wrong answers per round. And we're just going to do like, I don't know, six rounds. I don't know why we didn't go, you know what, maybe 18 buckets of ice over and over again is not going to feel good, and that's going to be a kink. We didn't say that, though. No, we didn't. We played that game, and God bless. If you see this game show, watch and absorb all of Brain Freeze because I can tell you right now, it will not be played again. We will not be having that game should we come back for a second season of Family Game Fight. Oh boy. It's a fun show

though. I mean, people are going to really like it. I think there's a lot of fun games. And when we were watching in the green room. Yeah, sure. We'll call it a green room. You know, we're into it. We want to be involved in the games and I think everyone else will feel the same way too. So it was, I hope people like it because we tried to make a twist. You know, the part of what the hiccups were is that when you play family games, there's always room for a fight. That's why it's fun. When you're doing charades, you said a word. No, I didn't. Yes, you did. I heard it. You said it before the buzzer went off. Tempers are hot. And that's why it's interesting. So we were like, let's do a show like that, where it's not just, you know, Jeopardy, where there's a clear answer. But also, we don't like to be left out of games. So Dax and

I are playing with the families. So we have two families, and we're each on one of the family's team trying to get them to win $100,000. But man, it was what a huge family game fight with your in-laws feels like. But I hope people will like it. We certainly had fun doing it once we were able to start giving money away. Yeah, that's your favorite part, obviously. Big time. Yeah, you love that. Speaking of giving money away, our incredible guest has a foundation

that if anyone wants to donate to, Malala Fund. Malala.org is how you find it. And if you haven't guessed already, our next guest is Malala Youshafsai, who is, I mean, I don't want to say she's an itty-bitty baby, but what I mean by that is she is a young girl with more wisdom than all the adults I've ever met combined. Yeah. You know, I've ever met combined. You know, you've probably seen her.

She won a Nobel Peace Prize. You've seen her speak at the UN. You've seen her on billboards about girls' education. There was a documentary about her, an incredible one. Yep. She's got a book she wrote, not a biography. She's also got a couple kids' books. They're all about her perseverance. And the Taliban targeted her and caught her on a bus one day and shot her.

Yeah. And shot her in the head, in the face. And here today, I don't feel like we're going to talk about that because I have so many things I want to ask her, the least of which is what is it like to be shot in the face. Exactly. I feel like I got a pretty good conclusion. It's not great.

No. No, no, no, no, no. So we don't go there. Yeah. We all know that that's a bummer. But she is so smart. Yeah. She's so committed.

And my favorite thing about her was something actually her father said. Because they're really close. Yes. Tons of people were asking him, how did you make this girl? How did you encourage her? How did you help her? What did you do? And he said, do not ask me what I did. Ask me what I did not do. I did not clip her wings. And I was like, dead. That's a wrap. Their relationship, and she talks about it a little bit in this interview, the relationship between her and her dad is so beautiful. And I've seen some interviews

of him talking about her. And it's always just like, you know, I think a lot of people get kind of weak in the knees when they see father-daughter relationships. But there's something so, so, so transcendently special about this one because he made decisions that were different than other men around him and really supported her in a way that others weren't. And it made, it did, it made the most special human on earth. Because he followed his gut. He said, this is what's best for my daughter. I don't care what's happening societally or culturally. This is what's best for my daughter to thrive. And also in her documentary, I highly recommend watching it. I often put these people

we're interviewing because they're our heroes on this pedestal. And there's this sort of, you know, hero worship that happens. But it's so nice when there's this breath of fresh air and humanity that comes in. In her documentary, you know, she's got two brothers and in the documentary, they're just like fighting. Yeah, of course. Like siblings and they hate each other. Like family game fight.

Exactly, like family game fight. But it's so sweet and so human. And what it says to me is like, oh yeah, she wasn't born with this divinity. She took hold of it. She saw what was at her fingertips and she said, how can I make these decisions? Because she's just like us. Her brothers are super annoying. She says it. They're fighting in the documentary. It's so cute. It's exactly like every other kid, except what she chose to do with her life has inspired millions and millions of people.

Yeah, and we all do have that ability within us. It's just sometimes like it's very cloudy and you forget. So cloudy, but we're here to remind you, you can grab it, baby. That's right. If you want to, we're here to give you some examples and scenarios of how to manifest what you want to manifest. So please enjoy Malala Youshafzai. We are supported by Wondrium. Now, we love learning new stuff. It's kind of in the DNA of our pod. Yeah, documentaries we're addicted to. We were watching that Frontline, that 60 Minutes,

all those documentaries that we can get to. And Wondrium is like the spark of curiosity, the thrill of a new discovery, which is like cool new dinner table conversations challenging the way that you think. They have thousands of hours of content. They have stuff from National Geographic, the Smithsonian History Channel, Culinary Institute of America, and more. And it's an amazing way to kind of America, and more. And it's an amazing way to kind of blow your own mind. And it's interesting. It's not like boring. This is actually fascinating. And we watched their exclusive documentary, Breaking Their Silence. Highly recommend it. It's a film that explores the poaching war through the female lens. That

illegal enterprise of poaching is crazy. And it's just very educational and inspiring to watch. Your brain is going to love this place. Sign up now through our special URL to get this exclusive offer. A free trial of unlimited access, plus get 20% off the annual membership. Go now to Wondrium.com slash glass. That's W-O-N-D-R-I-U-M dot com slash glass. Wondrium.com slash glass. That's W O N D R I U M.com slash glass. Wondrium.com slash glass. How are you doing this morning? I'm very well, thank you. We're so excited to talk to you. I am so, so excited.

And, you know, Kristen, I watch your show, The Good Place. I was studying philosophy as part of my degree in Oxford. And, you know, nobody really talks about it in public. And it's not there on screen in TV shows and movies. We don't see it as much. It was just so nice. I was like, this is helping me in my revision. Because you're like discussing all the topics.

I really, really loved it. And it was a phenomenal show. I loved it so, so much. Oh, my revision. Because you were like discussing all the topics. I really, really loved it. And it was a phenomenal show. I loved it so, so much. Oh my gosh, thank you. I can't take a lick of credit for it. It's all the brilliant brain of Mike Sherb. He's truly the best boss in the whole wide world. I mean, everything you sort of vibe or receive from that show,

he is in real life. He's just an incredible human being who uplifts everyone around him. And I was just sort of honored to say his words and just equally as excited the entire time we were doing the show. A, I didn't know any of this stuff and I wanted this to be out as well. I want shows with topics that have an undercurrent like that, that really make you think or have a learning lesson, but are simultaneously really funny and slide in a fart joke. Like why not make it digestible with comedy, you know? Yes. Where are you? So I'm in Birmingham in the UK. I have finished university and after that I have allowed myself to get up late in the morning. And what's late for you?

Can be any time after 10, you know, 10 a.m., 11 a.m., 12 p.m., 1 p.m. sometimes, you know. Just depending on the day and depending on the night. Sometimes you need that. Yeah, I was actually going to ask you that. From such a young age, having to like be on and doing stuff. Scheduled. Exactly. Scheduled. Exactly. Scheduled. And you have a mission, the most beautiful one that we'll talk so much about. But have you ever felt like, well, when do I just get to be a girl who wakes up at 12 p.m., who eats, you know, mac and cheese until 2 a.m. or whatever. Like, have you gotten that?

Well, I think university for me was the time when I connected with people of my age. Before that, I was just there in these gatherings of men and women who are above 50. And even in school, I was with girls, you know, who talk about their daily lives and just say phrases that I didn't understand because I was so new to the culture in the UK. I had learned English in Pakistan in my school, but the English that you learn in textbooks is just so different than the one that you just hear people speak in their day-to-day language. Teachers would say like, you know, pop up. And I was like, what does pop up mean? You know, pop up to my office. I was like, what does she mean? But in university, I was like, what does pop-up mean? You know, pop-up to my office. I was like, what does she mean? But in university, I was able to sort of connect to people of my age and become somebody of my own age.

And I really enjoyed that time. American slang, it's borderline nonsense at this point. Oh, yeah. It truly is nonsense. Like you watch, like, you know, when you watch something like Hamilton, and then if you go down the rabbit hole like I did, and you like read the letters of Alexander Hamilton, you realize how beautiful language can be when it's descriptive and rich and vibrant. And I hear the way like my kids talk, and I talk to my kids, and I'm like, oh, there's nothing in this sentence.

It's just a bunch of bumbles. We've come so far down. Right. We need to get back to beautiful adjectives that describe how we're feeling. Really funny, actually, because my dad grew up in India and he learned English from day one. Basically, he learned many languages. And so he was very fluent. He spoke it perfectly.

But American English is different. There are phrases and things that I think he's like, what? Oh, yeah, it's nonsense. American English is different. There are phrases and things that I think he's like, what? It's nonsense. American English is nonsense. It's so funny how it can be the same language, but actually be completely different. Do you find that you're sliding into the norms of what your peers are experiencing, whether they're talking about something like more surface than what you're used to having conversations about? For me in my school, it was quite difficult because I was a year or two older than most of the girls. And I was also new to the culture. But then when I went to university, in university, you realize that everybody is new. Yeah. Here's an opportunity for you to make friends and to go and talk to people.

So I told myself, you know, do not hesitate. Do not be shy. Explore yourself and explore the people around you. So I would go in and, you know, say hi to everybody. And then I made friends really, really quickly within my subject groups. I was studying philosophy, politics and economics. They're called PPE lot. So I made a lot of PPE friends. And in Oxford, there are 38 plus colleges. So I was making friends in my own college and then in other colleges as well. There are societies like Pakistan Society and India Society and religious festivals are celebrated like Diwali.

And then you are in a different event where you are discussing politics and talking about Brexit and the US election and Trump. Is this real or not? What do the PPE kids get up to when they're not talking PPE? You know, a lot of them then do go into politics in the UK, especially a lot of them have been prime ministers and they are working in the ministries. So there is that norm that, you know, if you're doing PPE, then everybody would ask you, like, are you planning to become the prime minister? And including the first female prime minister of Pakistan as well, Benazir Bhutto, she studied PPE in the same college where I studied, which is Lady Margaret Hall. That's the college. And it was the first women's college in Oxford. which is Lady Margaret Hall. That's the college. And it was the first women's college in Oxford.

So that is the assumption. But yes, you know, sometimes they just are, you know, giggling about the day to day jokes and who said what and, you know, and there are a lot of like memes and people are tagging each other, you know, in those memes on Instagram, Facebook, everywhere. Political jokes. Political jokes. That tracks. That tracks because I went to theater school. And I'm going to tell you the theater kids, what we talk about after class theater, it's always theater all the way. It's the main subject, your new home, like that's where your life is. And it's just so hard to imagine yourself outside that place. I'm in this college in this university,

I'm making new friends. And then I have parents and family in another city. And like, is this my time to sort of imagine myself moving out of, you know, my own house and leaving my parents? And then do I go home after this? Or do I start a new life in a new place? You're sort of thinking about that. But at the same time, you're exploring yourself, who you are, what are the things that you like. And in Oxford, you know, the colleges are just so beautiful.

Some of them are like 800 and 900 years old. It's just fascinating to think about all the great people that you read about, the scholars, the scientists that they have studied there. But also at the same time, they started women's education in the late 1800s, a hundred and so years ago. So it's also fascinating to see that these are institutions of education, of learning, but women did not have a place here. And it was only a century ago that they were able to get into these universities and then graduate. Some of them were going to university, but they were not allowed to graduate and receive the certificate. So that happened, you know, quite late.

But again, you know, I was just so grateful that I had the opportunity to finish my studies, done my undergraduate. So excited. Congratulations. You just taught me a huge lesson because like, when you look at someone who's accomplished so much at such a young age, you tend to think like, oh, they have no flaws. They have a completely different brain than I do. And they don't struggle with fears or insecurities or anything. But it sounds like your acclimation to this group that was outside what you were experiencing, you were able to do it just because of a willingness. Like, okay, this is my time to be uncomfortable and be fearful and start talking about the little things that they talk about and learn the slang. And it just

resonated with me because I'm like, oh, yeah, you just need a willingness. And that's practiced, right? Because I mean, you have essentially practiced that your whole life, like as far as entering fearful situations. I mean, you've been doing that since you were 11. And I think it was you were accepting your Nobel Peace Prize when you said, like, I'm committed and stubborn. And I think in some ways, that's like, that's the biggest gift throughout life to just be like, well, I'm here, I'm doing it. And no one can stop me. Yes, there were moments when I was like, oh, you know, it's not a place for me. And then there were moments where like, if it's not a place for me, I'll have to make it a place for myself. And I'll have to make that attempt.

So I always try to participate in whatever way I can. So I try to become part of the Pakistan Society Committee. And I also ran for these JCR Junior Common Room. I ran for a position there in my college. So I always try my best to participate, even if I feel like nobody knows me here or would anybody even vote for me in these specific elections or not.

There's always that moment when the stage is yours, you have to accept it and you have to close your eyes and say what's in your heart and just express yourself. So there's always that moment and I always believe in it, whether it was giving a speech in my school when I was nine years old, or when I was speaking at the UN, or when I was accepting the Nobel Peace Prize, or when I was giving a small speech becoming part of the Pakistan Society Committee. So there's always that moment when the stage is yours. And you can say whatever

you want to speak from the core of your heart, and people will listen to you. You know, that is the moment when everybody's quiet, listening to your voice. Do you think you got a lot of this conviction from your dad? I love the connection between you and your dad is so endearing and heartwarming. And in order to be a strong person, you need to see a strong person. And it seems like you had that. No, 100%. I agree. And, you know, like in a lot of sort of the Asian, Indian, Pakistani households, the role of men, the role of your parents and brothers is so important. And if they stand out as that feminist role model, you already see your way in that conservative patriarchal society, because you know that there is a man, there is your father, your brother standing by your side. And if anybody stops you in your way, they will be there to

defend you, right? You can defend yourself as well. But when there are people standing with you, it makes your journey easier. So I was lucky that I had a father who believed in my voice. When I was born, he was celebrating my birth. Even though I was the first daughter in the family, a lot of our neighbors and relatives were just a bit worried that, OK, if it's the first daughter and if the second one is a daughter and the third one, will they ever have a son? And a lot of people visited my mom to tell her her like, fingers crossed, don't worry, you will have a son next time. Oh, my goodness. And they were not celebrating it. They're not congratulating her. But my father was just so annoyed. And he was like, you know, people should celebrate the

birth of their daughters. What is wrong with that if you are a girl? And around that time, my father's cousin, he had already worked on our family tree, and it went back like 300 years to the family's history, and it was full of men's names, and there was no woman mentioned in that. It's not that we didn't have women in our family. Of course we did. Yes, we had women. Yeah, they're not acknowledging that every man was literally birthed from an important woman who brought that man into the world. Like the lack of acknowledgement. They had sisters and they had daughters, but they were not mentioned there as if it's the man who carries the blood forward. And my father

wrote down my name on the family tree. And initially, you know, his cousin laughed at him, but like now he's a big fan of me and he supports me. You know, things change. Things change. It's just somebody has to take that brave step to say that, you know, we don't accept the current culture, the current norms and traditions that go against women's rights and that things have to change. And then, you know, a few years later, before you even know it, they have already changed. Because of people like you and your dad. But even now, like a lot of the conversations are changing from like Time's Up to Me Too to climate change to gender equality and Black Lives Matter.

Like before you know it, the conversations already change. And it's because there was somebody who said the way things are, that the status quo, it's not OK. And this is not how things should be. So I'm just glad that, you know, people are just changing the dialogue, changing the conversation. But it is so interesting because for so many years, the women weren't acknowledged. And then now women are being acknowledged and we're supporting each other. But in addition, you're adding this beautiful level of nuance to it that maybe it's people need to be supporting people. And we need to kind of suck the gender identity out of it because there's also the saying of like, you know, behind every great man is a great woman.

And you're leading the example of behind this great woman is a great man. I wrote that down too. Listen, we're twins. Yeah, we're twins. And we often end up having the same questions. So this might be a short interview because we duplicated all of them. But I just think that's so beautiful.

It very well could have been your mother. And your mother did provide you, I'm sure with a ton of strength and determination. But what you acknowledge as the sort of wind underneath you was your father. And it flips the script a little bit. It's beautiful. And it's an example that the man can be the one to support the women. And then look at what you've accomplished. Like, look at what he can, you know, say I had a hand in. This is so, so true. And often people ask me, you know,

what was it like for you to start speaking out and that you might have some sort of magic? And I'm like, I did not have anything special, anything extra that I was able to raise my voice. The only thing that is different in my story is that I had a father who did not stop me. There were so many girls just like me who were speaking out initially. But as soon as they reach that age of puberty, you know, that now it's your time to sit in the house, think about getting engaged or getting married or cover your faces. So a lot of those girls could not continue speaking out, including my very, very close friends. Like they could have been in my place, too.

I tell myself, you know, it's not that women need some sort of special power or some special skill. Women are already capable of doing anything they want to do it's the society it's the people around them that sometimes stop them that become a hurdle in their way you know that glass ceiling or sometimes you know it's it's not even a glass it's a clear like you know steel or an iron bar in front of that it's clearly visible so sometimes it's the support of men and the support can be in the form of taking a step back as well. It's giving room and giving place to women to go forward, allowing them to have space on the table, to have space in these conversations, in these meetings where decisions about women's future are made.

So I keep telling people like my story is different because I had a father who believed in me. We are supported by Primal Kitchen. I love Primal Kitchen. They sent a ton of stuff to me and you. You've made so many great meals lately. And when I got this Primal Kitchen box of all these incredible sauces, it's the perfect way for me to get back into cooking because I can cook something easy, put this sauce on it, and it tastes like it's from a restaurant. Also, I think when you're cooking, you're so much more

aware of all the ingredients. I suppose like ordering out, of course, you're just like, it arrives and you eat it and you're not really thinking. But when you're cooking, you're like, oh, I'm using this much oil or I'm using this much this. And you really want to be cognizant of the ingredients you're putting in your body. But the reason I haven't been cooking a ton over the last couple months is because when you're cooking, you're usually doing it from scratch if you're doing it for the joy of it. And that takes so much time, like making a really good sauce to put over whatever meal it is. And that's why I like this because I know what's in it. It's much, much easier. And I don't have to sit there and like make a roux or let something simmer for eight hours before it eventually goes on the pasta.

Totally. So never settle. Make every bite of food exciting. You can find Primal Kitchen in your local grocery store or visit primalkitchen.com slash shattered glass and use code shattered glass to receive 20% off your entire order. We are supported by Noom. Noom is cool because it changes how you see food with a psychology-based approach that looks at what you eat, but also how you eat it. And there's no guilt or regret. It empowers you to keep going. So when you're setting goals, which a lot of our goals have to do with food and what you're putting into your body, and they get rid of this notion that there's bad food. It's just foods add up to certain things and you don't need rules to lose weight. You just need knowledge and wisdom that help you build smarter, more sustainable habits. So it's a very realistic

approach. It is, and it takes the shame out of the equation. It uses cognitive behavioral therapy. It's so practical. 80% of Noom users finish the program. 80% of people follow through and 60% have stuck with their goals for at least a year. And all you need is a 10 minute check-in. That's it. And there's no like grueling early mornings or huge chunks out of your day. It's really, really easy because it wants to make it as simple as possible. And it's just about understanding what you're putting into your body. And it's not a one-size-fits-all. Also, they'll look at your goals and your body and what you want to do. And you can start building healthier habits for long-term results. And you can sign up for your Noom trial at noom.com slash glass. That's N-O-o-m dot com slash glass. We are supported by BetterHelp Online Therapy. Everyone needs someone to talk to. If you're struggling with a relationship,

if you're feeling anxious, if you're having trouble sleeping, if you're just human, that's a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody. That is a quote from BetterHelp's lead therapist, by the way, which I think is so accurate and brilliant. And this is the easiest place to go to talk to someone. Even days that I enter the therapy session, I'm like, I feel great. I have nothing to talk about. I get the most revelatory sessions out of those days where I'm like, oh, I already did the work. No, you just always have work to do. Even if you're in a great mood and everything's fine, therapy is confidence building. It is. Because you walk away with a better understanding of yourself and your

relationships and other people, and you end up making less emotional mistakes. You're building your toolbox. Right. You're lugging around a huge toolbox, but it feels light as hell. And with BetterHelp, you don't have to wait. You can log into your account at any time and send a message. They're also committed to making great matches so you can change therapists if needed. It's convenient and affordable, more so than in-person therapy. And financial aid is available. And our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash glass. That's betterhelp.com slash glass. That's betterhelp.com slash glass. Back to the family tree real quick. I just find it so fascinating that they're literally trying

to erase the female parts of the story. And there's an overcompensation happening. Like, clearly that's so wrong. Women birth the children. There's just no way. The tree doesn't exist. Yes, the tree doesn't exist without the woman. So it's almost like they're proving that they have an importance

because the female importance is inherent. Yes. I fully agree. I keep preaching about this, that women are playing an important role in society. They are running houses. They are taking care of the future generations of this world. And this is that unpaid labor. They are doing work. It's just not acknowledged. It's just not counted. And a lot of these women do not get their education or who do not get a job or anything and are limited to their houses and to the domestic work. It does not mean that they're not doing anything. They're

doing quite a lot more. It's just that it's not acknowledged. It's just not recognized. And I think it's important to recognize that and it should be optional. It should be their choice rather than society implementing it on them. And that men also need to realize their role in it. And, you know, it should be sort of divided equally between them. Right now, in a lot of like, you know, Western countries, we hear about not just maternal leave, but a paternal leave as well. Take that and then apply it to all the roles. But with my father, he was just so passionate about his daughter having her own voice and having equal rights. He had that vision because his own five sisters could not go to school.

His parents gave education to him and to his brother. So the boys received education, even in food, they would receive more food than the daughters. Oh, jeez. In literally everything, you know, boys receive more than girls. But he could see the discrimination with his own eyes every day. So he made this commitment that he will ensure that his own daughter does not get discriminated and that his own children, son and daughter, they're treated equally. So even when he was naming me, he named me after Malala Yefmeywan. She's this Afghan heroine who fought in the second Anglo-Afghan war in the 1800s. And the

Afghan soldiers were losing their hope for victory in that war. And they were, you know, about to leave that battlefield. And this young woman, she rose to the mountaintop and she raised her voice and said, if you do not die for your country today, you will live the rest of your life in shame. And her voice was just so powerful. She's this teenage girl that it brings all the troops back and they win that war. troops back and they win that war. So but my father intentionally named me after her because she is the only Pashtun woman that is known by her own name. We do not have that many women role models in our Pashtun history. And Pashtuns are a tribe that live where we are in millions. It's not like a small tribe. So we live in parts of Afghanistan and Pakistan. We speak Pashto language. So my father was like, you know, we do not even have that many women role models who have

their own name. So he named me after her, even though the actual, the literal meaning of the name is grief stricken or sad, but we go by the, by more the figurative meaning that it accompanies. How many languages do you speak? I speak three languages. I speak Pashto language, Urdu language, which is the national language of Pakistan. And then I speak English. And I'm currently learning Swahili. I'm taking the beginner's course. Because, you know, we read Quran and most students read it in Arabic without understanding what it means. So I study Quran with translation.

So I understand a bit of Arabic as well. Yeah, I love languages, you know, because understanding the language and understanding the colloquial terms and the jargons and phrases. For me, like I learned English in Urdu, not in my own mother tongue, not in Pashto, but in Urdu. It's just the education structure in Pakistan, very complicated and hard to explain but I had to translate all these languages in my head and sometimes you know you form the structure in your language first and then say it in English and then when you hear it in English then you translate it. You get used to it with time but I think it is a big issue and I

do think that you know all languages should be celebrated, they should be respected. These languages are dying. They're getting lost with time. So it's so important that we preserve these languages. Yeah. We have another show with a family therapist, and she also has this like kind of like side hustle in linguistics and specifically words from other languages that we don't have in English. Yes. And she's been teaching us those. And it's fascinating because you actually learn so much about a culture

and what they prioritize based on the words they pick, you know? Like, so there's a language in, I want to say, Swedish, that means the amount of time your reindeer can go without having to go to the bathroom. And it's like, it's just... We need a word for that. We don't have a word for that. But it just shows the priorities there and like animals being a huge part of what they need. And I just think you can learn so much from that. But also going back to the Pashtun culture, I was reading about it yesterday when I was learning about you. I'm 100% in, by the way. Yeah, I literally was like, Kristen, because part of the hospitality and keeping the door open, like Kristen's been doing this since I've met her way before that.

Well, you might be secretly Pashtun. I'd love for you to tell us a little bit more to just sort of see if I qualify. Because definitely in hearing about the open door policy, when I met my husband, I had a revolving door. Like I love when people are close. Now, I'm someone who I love humanity and don't always like humans, which I think is an important – I would like to find a word for that. So I want the door open because I'm like if you need a place to stay, if you're between apartments, if you've had a fight with your significant other, you can definitely stay here. I won't always want to talk to you in the living room, but you'll definitely be welcome. There will be food on the table. And my husband was sort of a little bit allergic to that when we first met. And he was like,

why are there so many people always coming in and out of the house? Because I tell my friends, don't knock. You can just come in. This is your house too. And there were, I mean, there's like one time we had like seven people staying with us and he was nervous about that. He didn't like people being in his space, but I actually love people being in my space. It makes me feel like my tribe is close. So what else would I need to be into to fully qualify? This is a good start. I think the second one is just being, you know, we are known for our courage and bravery, and it could have both sort of meanings. It has been costly in a sense that we have the issues of, you know, honor killing and the tribal family wars. And a lot of

the time women are the target because, you know, if anything controversial happens or there's an affair or something and the woman you know who gets killed in the so-called name of honor and this is you know nothing to do with honor like this is this is a shame that this is happening so there are certain cultures and norms that have to change we create these these norms and we have created them these are like human-made things it's important that we recognize that some people, you know, are sort of think that these are some revelations from like God, you know, that's not the case. So it's reminding people, but bravery can be taken in a positive way as well. It's, you know, speaking out for what is right and protecting women and girls and their rights and it's protecting the most vulnerable in your society. And so, you know,

and girls and their rights and is protecting the most vulnerable in your society. And so, you know, that's another important part of Pashtun culture. The other one is loyalty. You know, if we say a word that we will be your friends, then we will be your friends. You can always, always trust us. Okay, I qualify there. Do you find it hard to have to reconcile those two things? hard to have to reconcile those two things, like in all religions. But there is a big element of misogyny. Like there's just no way you can get around it, you know, again, in all of them. We have really beautiful, wonderful religious friends, and they're also incredibly progressive

and liberal thinkers. And I find them having to sometimes try to put a square peg in a round hole to try to justify some of the things. And we are not very religious. So I can see it kind of objectively like, oh, that must be really hard to believe in something and also know there are parts that are very problematic. Yeah, I see that. We see that in most religions. But I think in religious scripts, they are like huge books. They have many, many chapters and you can find a verse, you can find something there that can support any argument that you would want to make. So there are verses that support equality for women. And like in Islam, it is clearly said that, you know, women should have equal rights and that education is the right of both equality for women. And like in Islam, it is clearly said that, you know,

women should have equal rights and that education is the right of both men and women. But one thing that we need to remember about all these religions is that a lot of them have men as their interpreters, as their scholars. So religions so far have been very man-led. Yeah, just like everything. Yes, and I think we need to allow women to be priests, to be scholars, to be in those positions that men have carried for many, many years. And of course, they do not see it from that gender perspective. They do not see that it's, you know, all about the man, about the sins of the man, forgiveness for the man.

The man is, you know, there to serve God. It's all about the man, about the sins of the man, forgiveness for the man. The man is, you know, there to serve God. It's all about the man. Yes. That's why, you know, I'm very interested in studying Quran and just seeing, you know, what it is for women and for equality and just women and their protection in general. And when I, you know, when I look at the verses, some of the verses that are currently interpreted against women can easily translate it in a way that can show us that no, they are in favor of women. You know, there is that conversation. But again, women are not sort of allowed to be, you know, interpreting Quran and they should be just listening to men. So there is that issue. But also like looking at these

societies and these cultures, which are misogynist and patriarchal, for a second, if we remove all religions, they will still be the same. Tell me about that. Sometimes you have to understand that there's more to it. There's more to explaining why gender discrimination is there, why sexism is there. It's because, you know, the society that we are living in globally, it has been misogynist. And I think sometimes then people find excuses and reasons and sometimes religion is used or so-called cultural norms and customs and all these things. So I think like,

okay, you know, remove Islam, remove Christianity, would the world change? I don't think so as much. Perhaps not. You're bringing up such a good point that I've felt for a long time because I was raised pretty religious and I am not now, but I find that the way that it works most beautifully, because I do think religion is beautiful and can do a lot for people's heart and souls and collective communities is fusing religion with this element of critical thinking and analyzation. I think in a lot of these religious scripts, there is the message to the people and then there are messages in a specific context. It is addressing that specific thing that is happening at that time. So I think separating the two

is important. But again, you know, if a script is for everybody, then everybody should have a chance to interpret it in their own way, rather than, you know, one or two men taking the charge that, you know, they are the ones to tell us how we should see it and how we should interpret it. But I'm just very curious, Kristen, like, you know, you have two daughters, and you have done so much and you are like, you know, you have two daughters and you have done so much and you are there, you know, sort of changing the world. Do you often worry about how are they going to be fully aware of their rights? How do you see your role as parent to raise them up as sort of feminist women who believe in themselves? Well, I guess I'll start by saying, check your ego when I say this answer, but it is because of

examples like you and examples of people that have chosen to tell their story. Also, the very specific part of converting it into a children's book, which you did. The Magic Pencil is something we read a lot. My girls love it. And these stories about women that people are writing and putting into the context for children make me a whole hell of a lot less nervous about my girls going out into the world, like your book, Gloria's Voice from Gloria Steinem, RBG's book. And also there's a series called Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls, which really normalizes girls who have had a knee-jerk reaction against patriarchal behavior. And it's a one page on each woman and they learn about the fight, for lack of a better descriptor, from warriors, like you were speaking, the original

Malala, to people now who have simply accomplished something. So based on the exposure my children are getting and the sort of glory in which we hold these stories in our house, I'm a lot less nervous as I'm seeing their behavior developing. And they are very outspoken about everything. Everything. In comparing it to your story, they have a father who is incredibly into promoting them using their voice and is incredibly active in them. It's not just that he supports them. He wrestles them every day. He snuggles them every day. They have an example of someone who is involved and supports them and lifts them up. So I'm not that nervous about the generation my girls will grow up in because they're seeing these things as a reality. I remember the

first Women's March here four years ago, I think, and I had a two-year-old. I strapped her to my back and then I took the four-year-old on my shoulders. There was something really strange and metaphorical about physically carrying the weight of the next generation and going, I'm going to do it. And I was exhausted by the end of the day, but I explained every sign to them. I explained why we were there. They looked around and saw it was 90% women and it was really beautiful. But I'm not that worried based on what I see them seeing right now. And it's because of looking up to people like you. You are a great mom. And it is very, very true. When you have women role models, it gives you hope that you can be in their place as well. You can be in that

position as well. If you see a female prime minister, a woman astronaut, a woman leader, a businesswoman, you can see yourself in that role. But if you are told like, you know, a woman can never be a soldier or a woman can never work in physics or these stereotypes are there. But as soon as you see more women in there, you know, you are like, yeah, you know, this is something that I'm capable of doing. So they make you believe in yourself. This is genuinely what happened this morning as I was walking out the door. The three girls and I all slept in the same bed together. And the little one didn't get up right when the seven-year-old and I got up. And that made her very frustrated that we didn't wait for her to get out of bed, right? That was a very big, big problem for her.

So as I was walking out the door, she comes out of her bedroom and she is wearing a red dress, a jean jacket, and she is covered her face in marker and her hands are covered in marker and her legs are covered in marker. And she said, look at me, mom. And the marker was blue or red, right? And she pointed at the jean jacket. She said, sad. She pointed at the red dress, mad. Pointed at her legs, sad, mad. Pointed at her face, sad, mad. She had made like eye sockets, one in blue and one in red. Then she lifts up her dress and on her belly are all these mad faces in red marker and all these sad faces in blue. But like what I mean is she's going for broke with expressing herself like she could have just said to me you know what i'm sad and i'm mad that i got up last but she didn't she

covered herself in marker to prove a point she's making a statement yeah no she she was like i'm gonna protest officially i'm gonna express my feelings they're gonna see me yeah yeah that's so funny oh my god she's it's to take us a week to get it off. I mean, I'm just desperate that one of them is not a Sharpie. She is. I'm so excited. I mean, both of Kristen and Dax's kids are so special, but I think she has the power to be a you.

You know, like she's just so… I hope she can change, you know, the future of America, the future of the world. And so excited for both of your daughters. Yeah. But we talk a lot about females having female role models. What's so necessary is for males to have female role models. Yes. Because like Dax is obsessed with his mom.

His mom is his favorite person on earth. And I think that is part of why he's able to feed that into the girls because he is seen an amazing woman do amazing things and climb, you know, her way up the chain of a business. And we have to also impart some of that. Like males need females too. And they need those role models as well. One thing with Dax and my dad is that their commitment to build change within their houses, like within their own homes and within themselves. Because oftentimes people want to fix the world rather than looking at their own role in it and how they can change themselves. They often

time miss out their own role in how the world operates and how they're contributing to how the world is unfair. So I think it's important to recognize your own role and like, are you a good brother? Are you a good father? Are you a good son? So true. That's genius. And that's something that I keep on reminding myself to my brothers, to my father, and like we all talk about it and like, you know, yes, we can advocate about it outside and it's much easier to do that, to tell others what to do, but can you do it yourself in your own house as well? That's a huge takeaway. Yeah, because you're

so right. Everyone wants to put it outward. When they say charity begins at home, you know, change begins at home. Big time. Can you tell us about education and your life's work and the Malala Fund? So I was passionate about education from the start. My father was a school principal. I was studying in his school. When schools were banned in Pakistan, in Swat Valley, because of Talibanization, which started in 2007. And from 2007 to 2009, in that northern region of Pakistan, girls' education was banned. Women's rights were taken away. Women were not allowed to go to markets. More than 400 schools were destroyed. taken away. Women were not allowed to go to markets. More than 400 schools were destroyed.

So since then, I have been committed to ensuring that girls can go to school and they can have this right because I was one of them who could not go to school in that time. And I think about all the girls who are out of school in this moment. And I'm like, you know, I was in their place once and I wanted somebody to do something for me. So I'm sure they're calling all of us to hear their voices and to make this world a world where all girls can have the opportunity to read and learn and to lead the world. 130 million, right, are out of school. 130 million girls are out of school. And then there are many more hundreds of millions of girls who are in school but are not receiving quality education. They're not actually learning anything. They can't read

and write because the school infrastructure or the quality or the lack of teachers, all these issues contribute to them not actually learning anything. A bunk education, as we'd say in slang, a bunk one. So there are so many issues which prevent girls from learning. And, you know, it could be from like cultural norms because the community, their parents, they do not believe in girls receiving education. It could be poverty. And if a family can afford the education of one child, it's more likely that they will prioritize the education of the boy than the girls. You know, it could be lack of transport. People often fear about the security and safety of the girls. And if there is lack of transport or lack of safe travel, that also

makes a lot of parents hesitate to send their daughters to school. So regarding Malala Fund, I started Malala Fund a few years ago, and we have been working on girls' education since then. And there are three key things that I'm focusing on. Number one is financing for education, because currently world leaders, donor countries, recipient countries, developing countries, unfortunately, they're not making the financial commitments that are required to ensure girls can go to school.

There's a huge, huge gap. And it's not that there's not enough money. Yes, these countries all have money. It's just where they allocate it, where they spend it. And like studies and research that was done a few years ago said that, you know, if the world stops spending on their military just for a week, it can cover all the expenses of education. Oh my goodness. You know, for all children. That's so upsetting. Me want to puke. It's unreal. Literally, you're like, how do we fix the world? So there's like a financing, we have to keep pushing for that. Then there's the quality of education. As I mentioned, it is an issue for the children who are in school and outside of school. We need to give the

education that they need for their future. The world is changing. You know, technology has become part of our lives, and we need to ensure that it is gender sensitive as well, that girls especially are receiving the education that they need, including, you know, knowing about their reproductive health and their rights. And so these things are crucial. And then finally, it's addressing the social norms and the barriers that girls are facing. So working together with local communities. And then how we do it, how Malala Fund does all this work. So we work with local activists and educators who are fighting against these issues, who are addressing these issues. And we're working in more than eight countries, including Pakistan, Brazil, Nigeria, Lebanon,

Afghanistan, India. And they're identifying the problems and then they're identifying solutions for them. So in Afghanistan, for instance, they are focusing on training female teachers because when there are no female teachers, oftentimes parents feel uncomfortable sending their daughters to school. But if it's an all-girls school, it has, you know, female teachers that gives more of a confidence to parents to send their daughters to school. And in India, for instance, 100 girls, if they enroll into schools in India, only one girl will make it to our high school. Oh, my.

What, still? 99 girls drop out, especially at the age of puberty. A lot of girls drop out. So when you look at girls in higher secondary education, a lot of girls drop out. So when you look at girls in higher secondary education, a lot of them are not there. A lot of them don't make it to that place. And it's because of the barriers that they're facing. There are not enough secondary school or social norms that has made them drop out of their schools. Parents, they're getting into early child marriages. Parents are forcing them. Communities are forcing them.

There's that pressure as well. They have to earn for their families. They have to take care of the household. And the life of a girl is much harder. And I was talking to one of our activists yesterday, and she was saying that, you know, even in this pandemic, when a girl gets up, she has to think about the house and like she cleans the house and she washes the dishes and she takes care of her brothers and her father and her mother and everybody. You know, these times they have huge families.

And then she gets an hour or two to think about her education. And that's when she uses the device and, you know, starts her homework and starts learning. So they have to make time for their own education. It's so much to ask of a young person. Yeah. It's much, much harder for girls. There is the element of gender because society has, you know, defined our roles and it has become a hurdle in their way to say, OK, how do I make sure that I find a space for myself

where I can learn as well, where I can continue my education as well? So Malala Fund has been supporting more than 50 of these activists in these different countries. We are hoping that more and more girls can be educated through this, but we are also working on advocacy for policy level changes, changing the constitutions of the countries or bringing in policies that can grant education to more children. In many countries, they have not made a commitment towards ensuring the secondary education of girls. So in some countries only have it for the primary level. The target is that countries should allocate 20% of their budgets towards education. We are supported by ZipRecruiter.

We are supported by ZipRecruiter. If you're ever wondering how moms could possibly run a business as well as being a mom, because it's very difficult to do one or the other of those, or dads, to be honest, you know, juggling your family and a business, they use the help of ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try it for free only at ZipRecruiter.com slash glass. There's a founder that I heard about, Talia Goldstein. They call a mompreneur. And besides being a mother of two, she has a personalized matchmaking company, Monica. I wanted to tell you that. It's called Three Day Rule. I got to reach out. It's growing and she needs to hire several new matchmakers a month. That's her business. So she uses ZipRecruiter. And they have technology and algorithms that help her find people with the right experience. So she's not just like taking rando resumes. Part of like being an entrepreneur is knowing when to expand and ask for help and

hire out. Exactly. And four out of the five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. So it makes everything much easier. And right now, if you are starting a business or have a business, you can try it for free at this web address, ZipRecruiter.com slash glass. This offer is only good at ZipRecruiter.com slash G-L-A-S-S. ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. We are supported by Jenny Kane, the queen. We wear her stuff all the time.

Yeah, I know, but it's cool also because I knew Jenny when she was much younger. She's really built this awesome business and she has simplified wardrobe in a way that is so cool. She's like such a trusted source for elevated essentials. And you can keep these things for years to come. Like the Jenny Kane pieces that I've had, I've had them forever. She has that cotton crossover sandal, which is everyone's go-to. I've had them forever. She has that cotton crossover sandal, which is everyone's go-to. It's very California cool. Very breezy, easy. Everything like just looks effortless.

Everything goes with everything. Everything. Like this is sincerely the greatest thing about Jenny Kane stuff. Because if you go to a website and you're like, what matches with what? Every single thing on Jenny Kane's website matches with something else on Jenny Kane's website, but they don't look the same.

It's just perfectly fluid and fluent and beautiful. And you can find your forever pieces at JennyKane.com and get 15% off your first order when you use the code GLASS at checkout. That's J-E-N-N-I-K-A-Y-N-E.com. Promo code GLASS. one thing i love so much about what you're doing is what i've learned over the past couple years is how paramount it is to go to the people on the ground experiencing the problem like local activists are the key to solving these problems. Like it can't be someone coming in and saying, here's what I think you need. Here's how I think you need to do it. And like, I've had this massive education because of representing the Women's Peace and Humanitarian Fund, which is the flag of the UN. And I knew nothing about, but just wanted to be involved.

And they fund women's projects all around the world in like 15 different countries. involved, and they fund women's projects all around the world in like 15 different countries. You find the woman on the ground who has experienced this, who has found her voice, and you ask her, how do you think this should be amplified in the area? It's just paramount. Yeah, because it's a really American thought. Sentiment. And like, we know how to fix it. And we're just going to tell you right now that this is what you do. And it worked here, so it'll work there. And it's just, it's not a one size fits all. I agree with that. But I think it's also important to recognize that working on it collectively is important. We should not ignore it completely. I think it's just giving the right resources to support these projects,

whether that could be, you know, your support through media, whether that could be giving your presence, giving them the financial support that they need, getting involved in their projects. All of these things sort of work together. But I fully agree with you. I believe in the power of local activists. And, you know, that's how my father and I started our activism. Yeah. We need to have that faith in the activists.

And we need to support them. Yes, 100%. And that's what I love about your fund because you're getting out to these local activists and you are lifting them up. And so if anybody wants to be involved, like how do they find the fund? How do they donate? Well, very, very easy. You can go to www.malalafund.org and all the options are there. You know, you can donate through that we also have this platform called assembly where we share the stories of girls from all around the world we have girls who have shared stories about how they are bringing change in their communities they're finding sustainable ways to produce cleaner energy sources and they're just doing

amazing work they're you know documenting climate crisis and they're just doing amazing work. They're documenting climate crisis and they are talking about ending police brutality. They're talking about addressing elitism or racism in schools. So please do subscribe to the assembly assembly and you can hear all these stories of these amazing young girls. And for me, like I have met many of these girls in person. I have made trips to Iraq, to Nigeria, to Brazil, to Lebanon. I have met Syrian refugee girls and I have seen them in person despite all the difficulties that they have faced, whether that is wars and conflicts, becoming internally displaced, becoming refugees, losing their education, losing their homes, facing violence, whether that's sexual violence,

whether that is wars and conflicts. These girls do not lose hope. They still have hope for their future. They still have those dreams. And, you know, I remember a girl in Iraq and she was carrying a dictionary with her all the time so she could just learn a word every day. And she was also forced into marriage when she was 14. And she literally ran away on her wedding day, taking off her high heels and she escaped. Oh, my gosh. And, you know, then she sort of returned and convinced her parents to allow her to school. And then, you know, suddenly ISIS come and then her whole family have to walk for nine hours and displaced into a new place. So her name was Najla and I had the opportunity to meet her.

and displaced into a new place. So her name was Najla and I had the opportunity to meet her. But there was just this smile and this hope on her face that I am oftentimes visiting those places to inspire them. And I'm like, no, this is just happening the other way around.

They are inspiring me. These girls, they have hope for their future. So we should not give up. We should stay committed to ensure that all of these girls can have access to education. We should support girls globally. And a lot of them have shared their stories on assembly so you can read more about them. And one of our assembly writers was Amanda Goeman. Amanda Goeman, who

gave that. Oh, no way! So she wrote for us and she wrote a poem back in 2018. That's amazing. Yes. And I met Amanda. I received this award from Harvard University and she read a poem there. You know, she's a big name now and everybody's claiming a bill of Amanda. But, you know, as you saw, her voice at that inauguration was just so powerful. Her words just moved the world. Yes. And, you know, it's the voice and it's the work of these young women, these girls. We need to appreciate them. We need to support them. We need to join them. They're very passionate about changing the world. They want to see it as a fair place for everyone. They cannot live in

racism and sexism and discrimination anymore. They identify that there are flaws in the system. We need some systemic level change. So now is the time to support these girls. So, you know, yeah, Amanda was there back in 2018. That will all be subscribing to Assembly at this point. I think you'll have a slew of new subscribers. I hope so, because one thing that I think is really, really important about all of these issues, about racism, about patriarchy, all of these things that feel so big. I love that assembly is individual stories. Paul Bloom, who is this expert on empathy, he basically says the human brain does best when it can associate with one person. So like,

if there's a story about a girl stuck in a well, you can empathize with that because you know a girl, you are a girl, or you have one, or your best friend is one. And so your brain can make those connections. When it's 45 people are stuck in a coal mine, you have actually less empathy. You have less compassion. It's so confusing because when the problem is bigger, you should feel like you should feel more compassion or more empathy, but you don't. Your brain gets distant. It just becomes numbers and it just, you disconnect from it. All this activism that these activists are doing in different countries, it is contributing to a bigger change. The support that we are receiving, you know, a lot of young students like in the U.S. and

everywhere, they are doing fundraising and they're making cakes and they're sharing the stories and it is helping. So do not underestimate the actions that you take towards change. Believe in them. Oftentimes, you know, people think that it's just that one event and it's just that one moment. It appears as that, but no, it's always a long, long journey for everyone. Like you look at Amanda, she has been working so hard. She was

stammering as well. And she has shared her story, how she has overcome that. And she is expressing herself through poetry. And there are a lot of other amazing young girls who have been on this struggle for a long time. Look at Greta Thunberg. She has been doing this, you know, Friday protest for months now, and she's remaining committed to it. So never underestimate the power that you hold in your words, in your action, and in any way that you want to express it. You've traveled so much, and you've seen so many of these stories firsthand and you have to travel the globe to see them. Do you prefer a window or an aisle seat? Window. I love looking at the clouds. I'm a big fan of the clouds and I just take pictures of

the clouds and I'm just always just curious. They have different shapes and they're just like, it's just fascinating there's an art in there and I'm like yeah let's appreciate this yeah there's a magic in them yeah I agree did you appreciate or not appreciate the shout out that was given to you on the good place when Tahani's uh diary had a foreword by Malala Yousafzai. Yes. So I started watching the show and I watched the first episode and it was done really well. It just sort of kept me going. I was like, okay, I have to watch this. I want to know what's happening. Where am I? Who's this guy, Michael? I love everybody, Jason and Janet and Michael and Eleanor and Tahani and Chidi.

Chidi was like, oh, he was my favorite. Oh, he's the best. Yeah, we all loved him. But when Tahani opens her journal, I'm like, what? I'm honored to have written. It was just, it was a moment. It's hard to explain, but I was like, I was not expecting to see myself there. But I love the show.

I studied philosophy, politics and economics in Oxford. And philosophy, like I would be writing essays and doing readings. And people usually don't talk about these things in public, not even like with your friends, you're talking about like ethics. And then I was seeing like in The Good Place, they're actually showing the trolley problem. It's very nice to see all these moral dilemmas on screen. You're figuring out

about being good and doing the right thing. And is the system of justice that we see, is this constructed in a just way? It's called just, but is it just? Do you identify with a certain philosophy concept? Are you a utilitarian or Kantian? So I'm more virtue ethics kind of person. I think virtues and values are really important and we should not take these things for granted. As we were talking earlier about forgiveness and kindness and hospitality, making sure that you are not accepting an unjust system in the so-called, you know, name of values. If something is unfair, it's important to speak out and to challenge it. And people might call it rude or something.

But in Aristotle, he talks about it being like, you know, sort of the golden means. And there are like the true extremes on both sides. So it's hard to pick like what is the right side. But I'm also a big fan of Plato and I studied Plato's Republic. And it's just fascinating that somebody was writing these incredible dialogues around 2000 years ago and looking for a definition for what being just means. It's a good reminder that these are just human issues. They've been around since the beginning of humans. You've been trying to figure it out

since then. We still haven't done it, but we're trying and we're working on it. And a great reminder that there are roadmaps out there. I mean, humans learn from watching others or reading other people's work. Yeah, role models, exactly. I have one last question. You've given us so much of your time and I'm so appreciative. Oh my gosh, yes.

This question, I'm asking for two reasons. One is because I think people think it's a silly question and that if we're talking to you, we should be asking serious questions. And to have like a respectable female conversations means asking serious questions and like, no, you can be silly and be respectable. Of course. And this is just part of life. So dating, are you able to? Because I wonder if people who are who are you're dating are like or are attracted to or they're just like, oh, my God, but I have to be perfect around her. Like, is that an issue? So I was very like out of it for a long, long time, especially like after the incident in, you know, 2012, I just became such a serious person. And I don't know, I just kept myself away from it. And I

focused on getting into university and doing the activism. But once I went to university, I was hoping like, you know, I might see a boy and I used to tease my father. I was like, like, Dad, you know, I will be meeting boys of my age and I'll be meeting people on my own and like there will be nobody around me and like I was like are you okay with that and he said I trust you and I said dad don't trust me so yeah I was like I should be enjoying my time but I was like a year or so older So a lot of them were like sort of a bit younger. But boys are boys. No. Boys are boys. Boys are boys. No, I just, no, there wasn't much in university. They're fun, but you got to wait till they're ripe. You can't really go younger.

Shooting younger is troublesome. Yeah, no, you have to wait a bit. Just takes a bit more time for boys. So I'm kind of waiting for that. Good. Okay, good. I would just add, we talked about activism for education. And, you know, I've been doing this for a long, long time now, but just how unexpected things can happen. And COVID is one of them. And for us at Malala Fund, the first question was like, how does it affect girls' education? And we quickly did this research, which shows us that 20 million more girls are at risk of losing their education because now they're in homes. There's a risk that they will get into forced marriages or they will be taking care of their family. And it would be so difficult for them to return to their schools. And then in future, I think we need to ensure that the structure of education might be changing. We might be moving towards digital education. So it's ensuring that girls have access to

digital devices and digital tools. There is a digital gender gap, and we need to address that. So I'm hoping that, you know, in all of this that is happening right now, people realize the flaws in our system. And this COVID has sort of all of a sudden revealed that to us, you know, whether it's in our health care system, in education system, you know, where the world is spending its money and allocating its resources to. Why are we investing in, you know, sort of so-called wars? Like, why do we need to fight each other there are other enemies that we have and the enemy is the virus and the enemy you know is poverty we need to fight these things first because it affects all of us the consequences of of these things like discrimination poverty these diseases they're worse and they can affect all of us and

it's not sort of a country to country issue. So we need to understand that there's a global level of work required to prioritize the safety, the protection of humans, the protection of women, children, the most vulnerable among us. And, you know, we need to create that world of equality and fairness. And we need to create a world where all children can, you know, receive safe and quality education. It's as simple as that. So I just wanted to say that one more time. Yes, thank you. 100%. Well, and I think that's a really good thing to end on because I think COVID revealed that we are all connected. Yes. We are. And it's so easy to be siloed. I mean, even within the United States, we're siloed, but especially globally. Yeah, we pride ourselves on it. Exactly. And especially globally,

like we're so looking just tunnel vision and COVID has really put a spotlight on no, no, no, we're all connected. One person from that side of the world can come to this side of the world and impact. I'm passionate about this vision that yes, this world can be a better place for each and every one. And we can create a world where, you know, a woman is not discriminated just because her gender is different or an LGBTQ plus is not discriminated just because they identify differently than sort of the accepted role that is.

And we create a world where, you know, everybody is treated fairly and we need to address the structural level issues. And it's not that, you know, you give a thousand pounds or dollars to somebody and it fixes all the problems. No, these are more structural level problems. And it's not that, you know, we need to fix it all, you know, in one day. Understanding and believing the role that we as individuals have and not underestimating it. Even just being

kind can help us create a better world. Even just being, you know, hospitable to somebody or supporting the right causes and then pushing our local leaders to support the right things. So all of these things, you know, there are ways out there. And the critical thinking, like that's what I love about the Malala Fund is it's analyzing the problems. I heard Desmond Tutu say once that you can save a million people from drowning, but at some point you have to walk upstream and see who's pushing them in. Exactly. Exactly. So you have to address the root causes. The analyzation is incredibly important, and that's what you guys are doing at Malala Fund and figuring out the best solutions. And I just love that. Thank you so much.

We're grateful. out the best solutions. And I just love that. Thank you so much. We're grateful. Very. Thank you so, so much. It was so nice talking to you. And again, as I said, I love The Good Place, but I'm also a big fan of animation. I have watched cartoons my whole life. So, you know, thank you for Frozen and all these, you know, animation movies that are out there because they just bring so much positivity and happiness and they carry some really big messages. You know, the things that we are talking about and they sound so big, those kind of movies are bringing joy and happiness to people's lives. And they're just actually motivating them to become better people. So I

think they should not be underestimated. And so thank you for all the amazing work that you do. And I'm just so happy that I was able to talk today. Right back at you. We are thrilled that you joined us. This is a big, we were very excited about you. Oh my gosh. We've been talking about you for a week. And keep us updated on your dating life. Yeah. I will send you recs if we meet anyone good. I'll put something on my Instagram. I will. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you thank you Malala have a wonderful day you too bye bye