Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Willem Dafoe

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Willem Dafoe (Poor Things, Platoon, The Lighthouse) is an actor. Willem joins the Armchair Expert to discuss how he doesn’t have the desire to buy things, how being raised by his siblings affected his perspective, and how his parents encouraged him to be ambitious in life. Willem and Dax talk about how one’s identity can be defined by social conditioning, how he loves collaborating with others on a project, and how he feels about playing big characters. Willem explains how good directors make the film process more enjoyable, how he feels about knowing too much about other actors, and what he thinks about being so recognizable. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Mrs. Padman. Hello. Hello. Our last Monday interview of the year. Oh, interview, but we'll be back to talk about best of. That's right. Yes, and Christmassy gifts.

That's right. Okay, good. So I don't have to sing Elvis right now and I don't have to ring any reindeer bells. Please don't. We have an update. On our holiday sweater. Yes. So we've been doing a special holiday limited edition sweatshirt for the past two years. We did it two years in a row. Okay. Or three maybe. Not three. I think three. We had the yellow one.

Then we had the one that I drew with the dick and balls. Yes. And then the one with the robot. Okay. We've had three. I just don't really count the first one. The yellow one. Yeah. Because. Although if you have it, I still see people in it and it's beautiful.

It might be better than all the others. If you wear it, I count it. Yes. But if you don't, I don't count it. I just didn't draw it. That's all. That's why. Yeah.

To me, it's the ones you draw are the real ones. Yeah. So you have drawn another sweatshirt for this year. You had the idea. You had the concept. And then I drew it. Yeah. Yes.

And it's really cute. Really, really good drawing. And I love it. And just keep your eyes peeled for those to go on sale. They're not ready yet. Right. We got to get them printed. Yes.

Now the drawing's done. Now we go to the prints. We were a little late, but we thought better late than never. Yeah. That's drawing's done. Now we go to the prints. We were a little late, but we thought better late than never. Yeah, that's what we decided. Better late than never. So probably January those go on sale.

Okay. Yeah. Maybe if we're lucky, you could order them in December and give someone a... Like a printed copy. It's coming. You know?

Sure. We could do a pre-order. Yeah, because then people can print it out and say this is coming. Yeah, this is coming sometime in 2024. Yeah. To further aggravate everyone. Yeah and say this is coming. Yeah, this is coming sometime in 2024. Yeah.

To further aggravate everyone. Yeah. No, but yeah. We do apologize on our lack of punctuality. But it's worth the wait. It's a really good one. Yeah. All right, guys.

So just keep your eyes peeled. Yes, keep them peeled. This was fun and unique on all the levels because we did it on a Sunday, which we don't ever do. And it's with, in my lifetime, perhaps the, I mean, I'm going to put Willem in a tie with John Turturro as the most unique fun actors. Character actor. Yes. That I just, as I said to him in this interview, I've never had an illusion I'd be on a set with him. Like he and I are never going to be in the same kind of movie.

So I just ruled him off into like, he lived in an ethereal plane that would never intersect with ours. Kind of like John Batiste is a true artist. Yes. And it's really fun when we get to have those types of people on. Art in their soul. Yeah. Willem Dafoe, man, he's just walking the walk.

He has been nominated four times for the Oscar. So impressive. Yeah. walking the walk he has been nominated four times for the oscar so impressive yeah he of course was in spider-man inside the lighthouse platoon best death scene of all time it's iconic the antichrist he has a new movie that is out right now in theaters with probably the best cast of 2023 imagine i want to say something okay The credit list is like dumb. It is dumb. It's like dumb to read his credits. He's done 150 movies. And then as you're talking to them, you remember he's in every single movie.

He's in every movie. Yeah, at some degree. All your favorite directors he's worked with him multiple times. Everyone loves to invite him back. But his new movie, Poor Things, this cast is ridiculous. Emma Stone, Mark Ruffalo, our man Willem Dafoe, and the sweetest of all sweethearts from this year, Rami Youssef. Yes, Rami. And Gerard.

And Gerard. Gerard is in this movie? Yes, everybody you'd want. Oh my gosh, this is incredible. Visually dynamite of the cast of a lifetime. Please enjoy Willem Dafoe. Trip Planner by Expedia. You were made to have strong opinions about sand.

We were made to help you and your friends find a place on a beach with a pool and a marina and a waterfall and a soaking tub. Expedia. Made to travel. He's an object expert. He's an object expert. He's an object expert. When you stay in the shed. I turned to sleep and I thought, you idiot.

Of course, I didn't think about that. Yeah, but it is so lovely there. I course, I didn't think about it. Yeah. But it is so lovely there. I would feel the pull to stay as well. I like it. I like it. It's back up and partying over there. I know.

Yeah, I mean, it's not what it used to be. As far as funkiness, it's nicer than that now. Yeah, I know. I wish I could go back in time and see it in its heyday. Oh, God. One of the first times I ever stayed there, I was staying in bungalows, and the police lines were still up from Belushi.

So it's really a marker in my head, you know? Wow. Oh, man. Classic Hollywood. I know. Room service was like just cheese sandwiches. Really? Yeah, yeah. it was very down and dirty. Now the food's great.

They've stuffed it up in cheese sandwiches. Hey. Hi. How are you? How are you? Very good to meet you. Welcome. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome. Thanks. So sorry, I guess I'm... No, I'm early.

Oh, how early were you? How long have you been here? I'm an early bird. 15 minutes or something. No! Oh my gosh, I'm so early bird. 15 minutes or something. No! Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. You were offered coffee and water. I'm good. Okay. Beef Wellington, a baked Alaska.

Oh, you got a piece on. I do, I did get a piece. Shit, we gotta coordinate that one of these times. I know, we will. Mr. Defoe, welcome. What's up? How are you? I'm good.

Have you ever done... Surely you have. Podcasts? Yeah. That's one question. What's up? How are you? I'm good. Have you ever done? Surely you have. Podcasts? Yeah. That's one question. Very few. Okay, which ones? I can't remember. Moneyline?

I just did one. You did? You did. Yeah, and he said, what are you doing? I gave him the rundown of the day. And he said, you're going to do DAX? Oh, I feel flattered by that. That was the first one.

Oh. Yes, I love it. Is it a secret which podcast that was? Sam Harris. No. Jones? Sam Malone. Faragoza.

Faragoza. Faragoza. Faragoza. Sorry. He's a young guy. You don't need to do this. I'm just curious. No, I'm curious.

No. We'll give him a shout out. I immediately like him that he thought we would be on the list. No. Well, he was like, yeah, of course. Oh. You know, he was like. In fact, I said to the guy, are you in competition?

Sure, sure, sure. No, no, no competition. Talk easy. You're the big dog. Oh, talk easy. Rob knows. Rob figured it out. Talk easy.

Talk easy. Oh, this might interest you because you live in Rome part-time. You've done your research. Yeah, well, when you grew up in Wisconsin, I'm just a neighboring state in Michigan. Yeah, I know that.

How would you know if you did your research? Oh, my God. You know, you don't want to be rude. Flattery of bounds. Miss something. That's so nice. So, Wisconsin, Michigan,

these are not too dissimilar. Yeah, unfortunately now. Yes. Very interesting, right? For different reasons, but they're kind of like brother and sister. They are. We even join the UP. And the UP is a special place.

It is up in the UP. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But when we were growing up in Michigan on a playground, a very, very popular saying was, Mama Mia, Papa Pia. Oh, boy. Do you know the rest?

This sounds familiar. Baby got diarrhea. Ah, okay. Mama Mia, Papa Pia. Is it new to you? I think we had a different flavor. So you'd say, Mama Mia, Papa Pia, baby got diarrhea. And a friend of mine and I were sitting around talking about if we had a time machine.

And I said, you know what I actually think I'd want to use the time machine to discover is the very first time that was said, mama mia, papa pia. And here's what I figured out. I want to know if you think this holds any water. It was probably like 1700s. Some Italians took their child to the town doctor. He looked at the doctor and he said,

mama mia, papa pia. Baby's got a diarrhea. Like it was very positive. Like I know you're P, baby's got a diarrhea. Like it was very positive. Like I know you're scared, but it's just diarrhea. No, but a lot of people died of diarrhea back then. Sure. Sure. Well, that's the non-silver lining of that.

Yeah, that's right. It's kind of amazing when a joke appears about something really topical. How does that happen? News event happens and the next day you hear a joke. Where is that born? I mean, normally at a bar. People are drinking, but what's the genesis of someone putting together? It's funny, because there's no tracing that. You're right. Mamma Mia, Papa P, this is a mystery that will be as old as I have a reigning theory. Well, he invented that theory. Let's be clear. But would you agree?

I think that kind of specific thing, a joke like that, that's born out of some topical thing. It's two folks that keep topping each other. Someone says like, you know, Mamma Mia, Mamma Mia, Papa Pia, right? You have to keep upping each other. You're probably right. Okay, I'm going to hit you with a joke I came up with completely on my own the other day. It's the proudest joke I've ever had. So Forbes just named the richest man in Mexico.

Did you read that? Who was? Jeff Bezos. Oh, yeah, yeah. The richest man in Mexico, Jeff Bezos. Got it, got it, got it. That was a little weird. I feel really cringy about it.

No, no. Usually it works really well. I'll edit it to make it seem right. David Sedaris said it was his favorite joke he had heard this year. I sent it to him. You did? Yeah, so I'm just going to brag. I'm going to defend myself.

No, it's not bad. You know why I like it? It sounds racist, but then you think about it and you're like, no, it's just wordplay. I remember being in a room once with him, and I said to my wife, this is the guy you've made rich, you know? And she turned around and she said, oh, Jeff, you know? Yeah. Because she likes to shop online. Oh, sure.

Oh, who doesn't? Same. I don't. You don't do it? No. I don't even know how. As a matter of principle, or you've just never stumbled? I don't need stuff.

I mean, to be fair, people get stuff for me. Yeah. Sure, sure, sure. Like she does. She orders the shit on Amazon and it gets to you. But I don't need stuff so much. Really? Yeah.

If it sounds like boasting, it's not. No, it doesn't. And actually, you've planted a seed that I will be revisiting towards the end. There's different things about your life and career I admire. That one plays a role, I think, ultimately. But back to Wisconsin. Are we going? Yeah, we're always going.

We've got a saying in here, ABR. We've been going since cheese sandwiches. Oh, God. But we cut, by the way. I'm good. I say live by the sword, die by the sword. Put the bad shit in. Leave us souped and nuts the whole experience.

That's what we had Michael Shannon on, and he told this story. And 14 times throughout the story, he was like, you can't put this in. You cannot put this in. This is really bad. And by the end, he was like, you can put it in. Spoken like a true actor. Yep, exactly. Okay, we've never interviewed anyone on a Sunday.

I know. Thank you for that. And it feels so fitting that on the day of the Lord, we have someone who played Jesus. We're never going to interview someone who played Jesus again, especially on a Sunday. You don't know that. Well, we might. It would be a controversial one. Oh, Caviezel.

No, Mel Gibson. Well, he directed it. Caviezel played him. Oh, okay. Okay, there we go. Then no, we won't but he won't show up on a sunday i bet no he'll be at rest i understand he's quite the love well you can learn a lot when someone god bless him leads a q anon rally like you can't accidentally find yourself leading you and i've been invited to stuff we show up all of a sudden we're looking

around we're like should we be here but to the extent that you would be leading a q anon rally that can't accidentally happen to someone can it maybe maybe maybe i've been in places where i show up and it's not what i thought it was going to be i mean personally not professionally which is a great segue into actually one of my little la stories fuck i'm not going to tell the story. Yes, you are. Do I kick off by telling stories? Yes, you can. Of course.

I'm like Michael Shannon. No, I love it. So I'm on this movie, Streets of Fire, and I've never made a studio movie. And they've been shooting for a while, which is always awkward. And then I come in, and I'm sort of an important character, but it's not centered on me. And I get there, and I meet the people. The set is going, and I'm going to shoot important character, but it's not centered on me. And I get there and I meet the people. The set is going and I'm going to shoot in a couple of days. I meet the stunt guy and all of a sudden I see him go over

to the director, Walter Hill, and he's furious and he's pointing at me. It turns out he's really upset that I'm so small because I'm supposed to be this heavy guy that everybody's afraid of, the leader of this huge motorcycle group. And the hero is like a foot taller than me, and I have a fight with him. And he said, I can't do my work, you know. This guy's, you know.

And Walter said, calm down, calm down. And he came over and he said, listen, we're going to be fine. You'll be great. I was aware of the height difference. but just as a favor to me, could you go to a gym and just to satisfy Benny so I can tell him that you're doing something about this problem? You know, you're getting bigger. And I didn't know anybody in LA and I was in a panic. I went to the first place I saw and I knew nothing about LA and I thought I got to start right away. And I didn't have money in those days. I went in, you had to put down a credit card or whatever right away. I signed up, I got in there and I started working

out and I thought it was the Sports Connection on Santa Monica in the day, which was a big, cruisy place. Oh, yes. Wonderful. Yes. Like a West Hollywood. West Hollywood. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I stayed.

No problem. Of course. It took a little adjustment in my head. Yes. And everybody was very helpful. I'm sure. Yes. I'm sure they were.

I'm delighted to say to you, I have the same story from 16 years ago. I don't know New York very well. And we were staying in an apartment. And similarly, I was playing an underwear model in a movie. So I had to be in great shape. I was working out nonstop. The closest gym. We were in Chelsea.

Didn't know anything. Went down there. And very quickly, I was like, a lot of guys just stopping their workout and checking out what I'm up to. This isn't interesting. It actually gave me a ton of empathy for being a hot girl somewhere. I'm like, oh my God, this is what it's like. You can't turn it off. You can't be hot when you want to do. This isn't interesting. It actually gave me a ton of empathy for being a hot girl somewhere. I'm like, oh my God, this is what it's like. You can't turn it off. You can be hot when you want to be

and not when you don't want to be. No, actually, everybody was very cool. It was me that was freaked out. That's really funny. What year was that? 82-ish? 82-ish. I remember that movie. Did he drive around in like a 50s convertible car? The hero did, but I was on a big hog, yeah.

Yeah. There were like 50, 60 of them. It was quite a spectacle. And then somehow that song, on the dark side, that's related somehow. The big song of that was, I Can Dream About You.

Oh, I can dream about you. If I can hold you tonight. You got it. Yeah, yeah. That's Home of Notes, maybe. No, yeah. That's not, Home of Notes maybe. No, it's. Dan Hartman. Dan Hartman.

Isn't it great to have an external hard drive? Hey, fantastic. Okay, can we talk about Wisconsin a little bit? Let's. 1955. Dad's a surgeon, mom's a nurse that actually works with dad. Yeah. That feels very impossible and hometown-y and neat. And also eight kids.

They were kind of amazing that they kept it together. And our house was kind of together, but kind of chaos. Basically, my sisters raised me. Five sisters, two brothers. What order are you? I'm seventh. So I'm the addition, you know, I'm the oops. Yeah. And what's the age gap between you and the oldest sister? It's, what do they call it? Irish twins. It's pretty much boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Even the oldest sister is only six years older.

Every two years, I don't know. She's probably two, four, figure it out. We'll do fast math. Ten years. Ten-ish. It's like more than ten years. Twelve. Okay.

Twelve. Fourteen. Because you're seven. Fourteen years. Okay. More than 10 years. 12. Okay.

14. 14 is your 7. 14 years. Okay. In my experience in life, guys who had many older sisters really, really did well in the world. I've seen this to be true. In a lot of ways. They know how to talk to females. They've been dominated by them because they're older.

And so they have a respect for them that your average oldest boy doesn't have. I think it's a good way to go is what I'm saying. For me, it was great because I became the fly on the wall. I got a lot of inside information. Okay. And they gave me a big education. And also, I think in those days that women had less opportunities, they shouldn't envy men because men had this pressure to enter the boys' group. The boys' club stunts people because they have to conform to certain standards. It stunts them personally, and they don't know themselves. So you have these little boy men out in the world

where women sometimes, I'm not saying it's a good thing, and I don't say we want to go back to a period where they had less opportunities, but I really think they developed personally. They knew themselves much better than boys did of the same age. So that was even my experience in my family. My sisters were very together, and I don't want to say my brothers weren't. Knowing only about one of your brother, that seems obvious that he had the list of things you should do to be a man. He followed in my father's footsteps.

And the other one just beat me up. For his amusement. He had fast hands, man. Was there a rule in the house, no punching in the face? There were no rules in my house. But I was fast. I mean, fast in my legs. I was a lover, not a fighter.

Always have been. I mean, fast in my legs. I was a lover, not a fighter. Always have been. I got to state some global thoughts I have about you because you'll understand where each of these things were landing. You're so interesting. It's insane. In fact, I can't even believe I'm meeting you because I didn't do the kind of movies that you did.

And there's no way I was going to meet you in that way. It's never too late. It's never too late. You're right. I'll come over to your side. I'm out of retirement. Let's go. Idiocracy fan here.

Oh, that's always wonderful to hear. You're an enigma wrapped in a whatever the... I'm a pig in a blanket. Oh, you're a very eclectic, interesting, intriguing unicorn. And it's hard for me to picture you in Wisconsin. And I have to assume you were probably hungry to get out of there. I was. And not for any negative thing. I mean, I think I grew up in a good way, but I always sensed there was another world out there, and I always wanted to get out there. And it wasn't a specific ambition. I was always interested in performing. I was always interested in making things, but it

didn't make any sense that that's something I could do for a living. And I don't mean that in a coy way. It just wasn't practical. You certainly never bumped into anybody in Wisconsin who was a professional actor. Nah, there were. I remembered I was thinking about the musical Hair the other day, which somehow sometimes stays with me. Yes. I remember seeing that in Chicago, and it's the first time I saw naked people on stage,

and I thought, that's cool. People do that? I want to do that. But actually, one of the original cast was from my town. Oh, really? And then also, interestingly, you have two other famous people from your town. Two, very specific.

The pride of your town, Joseph McCarthy. The pride of my town is... Who'd you say? Joseph McCarthy. Joseph McCarthy was from my town. Wow. Isn't that wild? That's crazy.

And Harry Houdini grew up there. He wasn't born there. Wow. Because I think he was from Budapest. Yeah. But he grew up there. His father was the cantor at the synagogue. And then died in Detroit.

Yeah. At a show. Got punched in the stomach in Toronto. Oh, God. It's wild, right? Yeah, I think about Harry Houdini more than I should, probably. I do as well. And I have to say, if I had to say there was a Harry Houdini of acting,

if I had to just pick, I'm not saying it's a perfect parallel, but here's your group of actors. One of them you have to say is Harry Houdini. It's kind of you. I like that yeah right you have that like when he goes home do bats come out of the rafters and greet him like what's happening houdini almost feels a little too commercial well don't forget spider-man he made his. What do you latch on to about Houdini that is interesting? He's a guy that devoted himself to kind of a strange profession. Yeah.

Studied all this stuff and then found a way to make it performable. And a certain kind of mastery of his breathing, his body, those fall in line with the ambitions of training your instrument, as they say. Just a guy that sees something and goes towards it and works very hard on it. And then, of course, the fact that he dies tragically is juicy. It is. But there is, I think, a perversion and an occultness to his pursuit. Oh, of course.

And part of what makes it so exciting is that he committed to it and the world caught up with it. That's it. I guess that's what I wanted to express about him being a commercial success. That was also a time, well, I don't know his years enough. Hey.

Wabi-Wab. Google. Let's get some data coming our way. But you know, an interesting period was when there was an explosion of all these healers and these people that were into seances. Mediums. Yeah, that was a very big tradition for a while in the United States.

If I can add to that, Lincoln had seances in the White House. Oh, man. It was so common. Do you have a date for us? For Houdini? Yeah. 1891 to 1926 was when he was active. That's much later, actually, because I think it was post-Civil War where there was this boom of all this spiritual crossing over to the other side and the beginning of all this research.

Yes. I have a little story about Houdini that I thought was kind of cool. A friend of mine, who I basically grew up, he was a Greek-American guy, and his father had, classically, a restaurant. Yeah, yeah, wonderful. Cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger. And I used to hang out there. In fact, I lived at his house. My family was so big that sometimes

they didn't even know I was gone. I just had my own room at his house. And they had a fire at their restaurant, and they found a new place. And someone said, you know, this is where Harry Houdini lived. As they were remodeling the place, and one evening we went there with a Ouija board.

Oh, wonderful. And we said, Harry Houdini, if you are here, give us a sign. So the planchette would go, E-W. No, try again. E-W. Try again. E-W. Okay, this thing doesn't work or he's not here. Eric Weiss was his real name. No, no, no, no.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen. That is so, so scary. I love it though. I'm so scared right now. Oh, I love that. I remember it so well. But here's where I'm getting at. I wonder if you had that fire that you felt. I feel like a peculiar insect here. If I go somewhere else, maybe it'll make more sense. I did.

And also, my father was from Wisconsin. And he grew up in a country school where he skipped like four grades. But he had a good education. It was kind of depression time. He went to Harvard Medical School before he could shave practically, went to Mayo Clinic. So he had an ambitious background. And my mother came from a blue collar family. Her father was a union organizer and a milkman. And she grew up in Dorchester and she went to' Latin school in Boston and then became a nurse. So they were

upwardly mobile. They instilled in us, you've got to go out in the world. You inherited ambition. Yeah. My town was lots of things. There were universities there. There was some wealth there. There was all kinds of things, but principally, a lot of paper mills. So there was a big blue-collar factory worker community, and they were basically Italian and Polish surnames, or Eastern European. The owners of the factories all had English or German names. So there was kind of a Protestant-Catholic split,

and there was a large Jewish community as well. And I grew up with a crazy prejudice against the working class. Oh, interesting. Which took a lot to overcome when I decided to become an actor and went to New York and was living like a pauper and living in a bad neighborhood. And I thought, no, this is where it's at. The salt of the earth. And not because my parents were horrible people. It was just this very American fear of sliding back into another economic bracket. They had pulled themselves up from their bootstraps and that was a point of pride and they wanted their children to even do better. Now that didn't quite jive with this guy that likes to perform and wants to see the

world, wants to have adventures. Wants to be in the carnival, basically. Yeah. That was always a fantasy when I was a kid, either the carnival or merchant marine or army. It sounds juvenile, and it was because I was a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was it. I really had this strong feeling of I wanted to go away. To see what he could see. The other side of the mountain. But of course, the working class, it's all story. So your parents have sacrificed so much. You said you're raised by your sisters.

They're never home. So they're killing themselves. It's a story. So the other option has to be the villain, which is the working class. There's no room for anything else. And while I really adored my parents, they were great. But I saw that they lived their life a little bit in fear. And that's been a huge ambition to get away from that.

Yes, defining yourself in opposition to that in a way. A little bit. Now, my parents were cool. They were hippie-ish in a wheeler-dealer car salesman attic. Mine were not. So mine weren't square. Mine were kind of square. They were more Eisenhower Republicans.

There was an interesting point where all my brothers and sisters went to the University of Wisconsin-Madison, which during the 60s was right up there with Berkeley and a few other places for being a place of political activity. And as a teenager, I lived through these Thanksgivings where, you know, brother would come down with long hair and would talk about part of the people and all that.

My parents would freak out. Right. Were they like, how did all our children, and then this little one is going to the carnival. Like, what have we done? Yeah, I hadn't gone to the carnival yet. They could feel it. It was happening. Well, look, they did it right.

And now this movement arises that seems to threaten the whole order. It's all going to go away, this thing we dedicate ourselves to. People always go to their parents when they analyze why they're fucked up. I think it's all about identity and social conditioning. That's the struggle, to get clear of that. And I think somewhere my ambition to go elsewhere was to, and I've always had this, it's also why I like to work in other cultures and I like to mix it up with projects. You like to find out what the bottom line is that's free of a certain kind of thing

that you assume is the truth, but it's cultural. Yes. Yeah, it's all made up. It's made up and it can limit you like crazy because that's the source of all your fear and your anxiety because it's not about you and you think it's about you but it's not you've got to find your own way yeah and look i'm in therapy so i do talk about my childhood okay also i've never been in therapy i want to also agree with you i think there is a greater force which is the

ultimate parents which is like who are we as a species? How are we designed to live? What is the price one pays for being excommunicated? Well, it's life or death. We know it genetically and evolutionarily. So yes, to go somewhere else that has a whole different set of rules and you recognize, oh, I could live out loud this part of me that would have got me excluded over there and I won't be excluded here. That's a really powerful and dynamic thing to observe and experience. I also think, coupled with that, once I started to work, I always sought out these situations that were collaborative groups of people that were working together and make something. That's a different kind of freedom. I've interrupted you a bunch, and I want to apologize.

I just want you to know my intention. You're very excitable. I just want to be very clear. It's not because I'm trying to finish your sentence as much as I'm trying to bond with you. So I just caught myself on the ninth interruption. I just want to own it. That's a good job. I'm proud of you for catching that.

I talk too slow. No, you don't. I just, I got very excited to mind meld with you. We go to New York though, ultimately. Yeah. And you're young. It's in the seventies and New York is like, I don't think people who go there now understand.

Oh, it was drop dead New York and it was dangerous. There weren't enough cops and there were plenty of bad guys and it was rough and stuff didn't work, but it was also exciting because you're young and you could deal with it. You don't give a shit then, right? You've not been comfortable yet. In fact, given everything that we said before, I was kind of thought, well, this is the world I've been living in Disneyland. Yes. You start to meet artists and you start to meet poets and you start to meet people that have much different

concerns that you had because they don't have money and they didn't grow up with the same kind of pressures that you had. I mean, I grew up very middle class and very modestly, don't get me wrong, but you fall a couple of economic classes and you see once again, the charm of that life too. I think there's more unity in it. So just my own story, started out dead broke, mom left dad, two kids, welfare apartments, the whole nine yards.

But my mom did build a successful kind of business at some point in my life. But all my friends were on dirt road. I always wanted to be there because there were less rules and there wasn't so much competition because no one had shit. There was something awesome

about the fact that there couldn't be any one-upmanship. No one had anything. And for me, I loved it. I never left. I didn't ever want to leave. Talk about not needing anything. But I got infected at some point. That's again, the earmark thing I want to know about at the end is how you seem to have, let's put it this way. You could have probably amassed a couple hundred million dollars with the notoriety you have and the offers I'm sure are out there for you. You could have at many times pursued different paths and you seem to have not ever picked it. And that to me as someone with financial insecurity and greediness, that is incredible to me. Well, I don't know. They pay you for a reason.

So I'm not always about money. It is possible to make money and still do good things. Don't get me wrong. But that's not the first question. It conditions things because money is a symbol of taking care. You know, if you're making a deal on a movie and they're really not honoring what you need, then it's not a good sign for that collaboration that you're going to have. Yeah, yeah.

You say that, and that sounds good, and that sounds very brave of me and not being a money pig and all that, because I don't think I am, but it happened by accident. I think because the people that I've always been hanging out weren't necessarily wealthy people, but they were working artists, and they were doing things that interested me. So the work will sustain you, money will not. It becomes something else. And where I find my pleasure is in movement and doing stuff. And I think money and certain things can slow you down. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. the plan and they both spent the week in the water. You were made to follow your whims. We were made to help find a place on the beach with a pool and a waterfall and a soaking tub and of course a great shower. Expedia, made to travel.

Okay, we don't like parent stuff, but as you're talking about it, I'm thinking, well, one difference between you and I is I was growing up with nothing and the goal was to amass something. And you grew up with something and you were like, yeah, this ain't that great. So you kind of already maybe started at the finish line. Maybe that was helpful. I think that's fair. I used to always get annoyed when there would be an interviewer talking like this and we'd go back to when I was 10 years old to talk about my family because so much has happened since that. It's like, get over it. And I guess I'm a little more tolerant of that now. But still, I think the formative years didn't necessarily involve my family or those early years.

The formative years was when I was in New York with the Worcester Group, this theater company. That was probably the thing that had the strongest mark on me. Did you have idols at that time? And did you have fantasies of what you were trying to do? I'm sure I did. But I remember when I first started hearing about Jerzy Gertowski, who was this Polish theater lab, do you know that? He was a guy that took basically a student group and he was quite radical and he limited the amount of audience that they could have.

He developed these exercises. Basically, it was to bring the actors to a place where they'd have to surrender because they were so physical. And he'd employ the language of these exercises in the show. It was based a lot on ritual. He told many stories with kind of classical or religious themes. I was very turned on to that because he wrote a book called Towards the Poor Theater. That was like a fantasy, having a purity to what you do. He was interesting because he just worked with the student group, and they totally committed to him, and they became great performers.

I never saw them live. I met some of them. I worked with one for a little while, but I saw videos of some of their performances and they were electric. And you wanted that experience more than you wanted to be one of those people? I even wanted to be one of those people, but it was very far from me because they were Polish and the different traditions. But in working with this company in New York, we toured a lot and I saw a lot of different theater companies and a lot of different theater traditions.

a lot of different theater companies and a lot of different theater traditions. And that turned me on. And sometimes I'd see performances and the performers were so electric that I would have an ambition to be like them. Would you experience envy in those moments? Of course. And I'd say, how beautiful that is. They give me so much. I wish I could do that for somebody. Right. That's not an obsession. But when you say, oh, did you have an, I was ready to say, nah, you know, I was just, I was just chugging along trying to figure it out, which is sort of true. But then when I think about it, the people that really turned me on were usually artists or these really extreme performers that were electric, but had no celebrity necessarily and had a very modest lifestyle. So that was sexy to me.

That's the group you were trying to be in, which makes sense that the money doesn't become the thing to get. It's that, it's artistic integrity and the approval of artists. Yeah, or just learning to do what you do so well that you didn't need anything else. The work would sustain you. I still on some level believe that. And that's not just for actors.

You look at some person that has a little cobbler shop and they do fantastic work. Oh, I think these genius welders in the automotive world, they think of a thing and they turn it into steel and they're in there for three days. Wow. That's it. It has to do with the quality of being there. And as long as you can sustain that, still that is my ambition. From what I'm leaning from you, it seems to me you're not terribly preoccupied with the grand story you're telling of your life. Is that fair? I think so. Because

I'm happiest when I melt into the action in the same way that I'm happiest when I feel like I'm functioning in a group of people making something bigger than me. It's very important to get away from yourself. And that doesn't mean it's not personal. In fact, it becomes more personal. And it maybe sounds precious. As an actor, you're part entertainer, you're part clown, you're part artist, you're lots of things. But the irony is it's about disappearing and finding another way of being and leaving yourself behind. Because the second we're born, we're always constructing these things that take us away from ourselves. These identity markers, and we become slave to it.

That's hard to beat. these identity markers, and we become slaves to it. That's hard to beat. You need some to just make breakfast and have relationships and know how to talk to people and function socially. But you've got to develop an awareness to see where you're leaning for certain behavior, for approval, for acceptance, for reaching that goal that you haven't examined but you've accepted as a goal that you have to reach.

All those things. I think that's what makes us sick, these things of identity, these things that work on you to fool you into thinking something that you're not. There are ways to survive in the world. We're all trying to find strategies to survive in the world in the most pleasant, best way that we can. Yeah. strategies to survive in the world in the most pleasant, best way that we can. And I guess one thing that's great about performing, not that you use it as therapy, but sometimes it can open your

eyes to other ways of being. And it can break that kind of stronghold that you have on what you think is normal and what you think is you. That fits nicely. I mean, we don't have to dwell on it. I'm not being cute here, but that's one of the nice things and poor things. It's about a lot of things. It's a complex, interesting, funny movie, but it's a lot about identity and social conditioning and sexuality too,

but it's very much about identity and seeing beyond what is normal. Yeah. Are you into mushrooms at all? No. Okay. If you take Michael Pollan and you read the book and it's explained to you biochemically what happens that makes them magic is simply it interrupts a channel in your brain that

communicates with the area you store your identity, this construction, right? that communicates with the area you store your identity, this construction, right? So a lot of end-of-life doctors recommend taking it as you're nearing the end of your life because it liberates you and frees you from this construct of your identity. And it actually lets you experience the stuff that is primal.

As you say, everything we would use to construct our identity, we're gonna be using all modern things that have only existed for 80 years, right? I'm an accountant. I'm a this. I'm a libertarian. These things are like 90-year-old mental constructs.

Yes. They can't possibly be what identity is if we've been here for 300,000 years. And so mushrooms kind of does that for you. you. And to me, it sounds like your work as an actor is in a way like taking mushrooms and that you do separate yourself to some degree from your own construction and you take on someone else's. And then it must be a euphoric and liberating, transforming thing. In theory. And it can be. And the only reason why I'm quick to say no about the mushrooms is I've got a kind of discipline where it's got to come from within because I get up in the morning. How does yoga play into all this?

That's part of it. So what else is on that agenda? Pretty much that. Yoga? Yeah. Do you meditate? Certain practices, yes. But you don't want to talk about it?

Exactly. Okay, wonderful. It's like talking about religion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not, but I don't like it only because it's like, I have something that you don't have. You know, I am, I don't know. It's like self-actualized. Yeah. You know, I mean, everybody's trying and I'm

one of those guys that's trying, but I don't want to talk about it. Yeah, that's fair. Hopefully with time I'll get articulate in what I do, that that can be an expression of those things. I'm not going to ask you to talk about it, but I'm curious if the motivation not to is that it would feel disrespectful to what it's giving you to go talk about it. No, it's just, listen, if my world is different, nobody's, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody's around. Nobody's around. And without any confession, for example, in America, we're obsessed with drugs. We're obsessed with going out to things outside of ourself to make us feel better.

It's really less true other places. Yes, there are plenty of drug problems other places. But we, the solution is always to reach for something. And I don't want to be Pollyanna. I have, and I do to varying degrees. But you keep an eye on it. Yeah. Well, I'm sober, so I can kind of roll with it.

I know. That's part of the research, baby. I'm sure that pops up almost. Big time. That probably goes Kristen Bell sober. And don't get me wrong. I mean, you know. You've had some fun. Yeah. And I've always been interested in people like Timothy Leary and Hunter S. Thompson. Adventurers?

Yeah. When you've played a character where that's an element of their existence and experience, do you allow yourself to live as they do a little bit? No. For example, I did this film that Patricia Arquette directed called Gonzo Girl. And I play a Hunter S. Thompson-esque figure. And I felt no desire to get coked up and drink all the time.

And that, quite publicly, was his story. I couldn't perform if I was doing that. Now, that one makes sense to me. But I guess for a platoon... For a platoon? I can imagine. The joke is, you know, there was one scene where we're smoking weed yeah and we're down in this underground area where we're living and they're setting up

it's a lot of young actors you know that want to be real you know so they're like come on man we're smoking weed so let's smoke some weed you know you're the captain weed smoker of this group we're all smoking it's not authorized it's not unauthorized you know it's just something that happens we're in the middle of the jungle yes some guys don't some guys do and they had problems technically so everybody got high we're ready to party and then by the time it was time to do the scene they were on the other side. Then they had to act being high after they had been high. Probably not a good way to approach these things. I've watched it on set.

I've been intrigued by it. But I also go like, you're being very optimistic about how quick you're going to get a scene done. You're ignoring the fact that you would have to stay in that peak zone for maybe nine hours. Yeah. And how many times have you been in a scene where someone is supposed to be drunk and they say, let me go.

And they're terrible. Right. Because they're fucking tired by the time. They're tired. Well, they're drunk. And they can't. Yeah, they're drunk. I'm not opposed to it.

Yeah. It's worked for a lot of people. Yeah. And it's fine. I don't care. It depends on the situation. of people. Yeah. And it's fine. I don't care. It depends on the situation, but I just say, generally, you have some technical responsibilities sometimes that'll go by the wayside. If it's not in the frame, it doesn't exist. You know what I mean? Good for you. You're feeling it, but

feeling is a little overrated. You gotta be there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've expressed at least that you're the type of person that loves just being the instrument to the director you enter it literally going i'm a piece of how they're gonna make this painting you've said i'm i'm the paint i'm the color yeah canvas which i'd like but have you found yourself we only happen to know about this because we interviewed a guy who does a show they take movies and they do a whole episode on it and we listen to the platoon one which is really fascinating paul take movies and they do a whole episode on it. And we listen to the Platoon one, which is really fascinating. Paul Scheer, this comedian,

it's a great episode. Breaks down the movie. He's a comedian, but he's like a film guy. Loves film. And he's brilliant. He's like a historian. And they're going through the AFI list

and then they watch it and then they go do an episode about it. And then they might do some interviews and such. So they interviewed some people from the Platoon movie. They didn't interview me. Unfortunately and sadly. That's because rumor is you don't do podcasts very often. At least from what we listen to, there seemed to be a lot of psychodynamics being played with in

the environment. Cool things being used. And I guess I'm wondering, knowing what I know about you, when you're there, can you just drop into that and go with it? Or is there a voice in your head going like, I feel like I'm getting manipulated or you like going all the way? And have you ever felt like this has gotten too crazy? No, I think you got to go with it. That's what you signed up for. And there's nothing worse than someone that drags their feet because it's usually selfish. You got to throw your lot in. But of course, if someone misbehaves or someone is abusive and it's too much for you, then you speak up.

I've been in that situation. The joke is oftentimes when directors are rough or abusive, the actors like it because they get a result. They forget all the bad part of the manipulation and they're happy because typically when they have to be stressed or they get break down or something, sometimes I've seen really crazy abuse towards people to get them to that place. And I don't know how I feel about that because it's up to the individual. And the individual sometimes is thankful

because that was a thing to get them there. And they'll survive it. And in the end, they'll look back and they'll say, oh, well, I let something go. Everybody's different. There's no rules. But I think the problem is when you start dragging your feet, then that stops the adventure a little bit.

Yeah. Because what are you protecting? Well, right. You're protecting your place. You're not united anymore. You're separating yourself out. But you got to be careful. If there's abusive stuff going on, then you got to speak up.

You landed and ended up being the very last flight into the Philippines. And the revolution started the next morning. Talk about out searching for adventure. Oh, God. And there weren't that many people there because I went early because I wanted to hang out and have a little adventure before the adventure. Because I was flying from New York, it was a long flight. And I took a nap after. And I opened my curtains.

I was in a high-rise hotel. And I looked out, and there were tanks on the street. Oh, my God. And then I turned on the TV and saw that the rebels had one station and the government had another, and it was a revolution happening. Now, thankfully, it was fairly bloodless, but in the beginning I could hear gunfire and this kind of thing. And then I got a call, sit tight. The movie's canceled.

We'll get you out when we can. And I thought, okay. So then I found a couple people, like the producer was there, Alex Ho, and Bob Richardson was there. Because they had expelled a lot of Westerners right before that, we went out on the street and a million people went to create a blockade around this army base because those people were not going to put down the revolution. And Marcos took his loyalists and they were going to march on these guys. And a million people went to surround them. So it's basically like, bring it on. You got to kill us to get to them. And I was in that crowd. And I was one of the few gringos because they had expelled everybody. So it was a very

high feeling. And people were feeling the pride and the power of people getting together for a cause. And it was spectacular. And Bob Richardson was filming a little bit. Oliver, I don't think, was there. And when Oliver saw the footage, he said, gee, I hope you're better in the film than you were in those videos. Or his wide eyes. You were kind of self-conscious. Well, that's a fun question, isn't it? Do you find that, like, if someone starts filming me with an iPhone, I'm insanely self-conscious.

And I think that's so bizarre that I'm an actor. You don't have things to do. You don't have anything to concentrate on. So they're filming you as Dax without that filter or without that purpose. Or an agenda or the game plan. And you attach to that. I'm speaking for you. You know what I mean?

Same thing happens with me. You hear all the you. No, it is. You should. You're invited to. Same thing happens with me. You hear all the time, oh, actors are shy people sometimes. It's a little true because you're always fooling with your identity unless your business is, and some people have done it beautifully, their business is to create a persona. And they use that iconographically. Movie stars is a perfect example. Someone that's a stone cold movie star. That's it. And they go through these stories and they're very beautiful because you

can use them and you can build the stories around them. Then there's the other people that bend themselves to the story. Yeah. Yeah. And there's no hierarchy. It's fun to watch both. There are people that are in one group that I adore and there's people that are in another that I adore this isn't a question this is just an observation so you were in katherine bigelow's first movie i was her first feature she had made shorts and things before that you're like give you a heart attack gorgeous i was watching it and i was like i look like a little kid oh no i mean you are kind of earth shatteringly gorgeous in this. I just was watching this clip. I was like, holy fuck.

I mean, you were a smoke show. Oh, my God. I didn't know. You turned into the most interesting face of all time. But back then, you're just straight up walking to a bar. People are going to say hi to you. Oh. Yeah.

I don't remember it that way. You didn't watch it. I really don't. I really don't. Wait, I want to look up a picture. You have to. The Loveless. There's a scene. Wait, I want to look up a picture. You have to. The Loveless. There's a scene of them driving in a car.

I look like a little baby. It's like the same thing to live in LA. In those days, I would go out more, and I'd go to a club, and this massive, muscular, tall bouncer that was your idea of scary. He'd be like, oh, Rick Masters. Wow, wow. And I think, he bought it. I see see myself and I look like a little kid yeah this is crazy how fucking gorgeous is he it's like yeah it's kind of you're right it's so young little boy knowing that you see yourself as a lover you weren't a

fighter when you have those showdowns with Berenger in Platoon, are those easy for you? Like, do you have to steal yourself? No. When you do strong actions, everything takes over. I mean, when you fight, I get emotional when I fight. That's probably why I'm not a fighter. I mean, I did a boxing movie and I didn't need to for the movie because you choreograph things. But in training, I always had a hard time keeping calm and seeing the punches. I could defend, but I couldn't attack. And not because I was against attacking, don't get me wrong.

Once you engage me on that level, you become totally fluid emotionally because you lose your intellect, your pure emotion. You get into the reptilian thing. So when I'm fighting. That's the easier stuff for you. A little bit. It is what it is.

If I know I got to go over and hit you and then you push me back and then I got to push you back, I can't separate myself. I know I'm not going to die. I know I'm not going to get hurt. I know it's even choreographed, but just physically that, you know,

it's like when someone slaps you, you know, it's coming, but. This is the younger brother thing. I'm a younger brother too. You spend most of your life waiting for your brother to come in and slap you in the head or just get you in a headlock for indiscriminate reasons. And that's your life. The directors you've worked with are incredible. And then you have this pattern of working with them a ton. There's so many good ones. Robert Eggers and Martin Scorsese, Paul Schrader, Wes Anderson.

Abel. Abel. Lars. My wife. Your wife, Julian Schnabel. Are you very director driven? I want to know what percentage is a script and which percentage is the director? Because you said something really cool about poor things, which is like, you don't know what the tone of poor things is when you're making it. You see somebody's work, you like what it is, you want to be in the room with them. You're kind of curious, how did they do that? I respond to that so much. So you get in the room

with them and you enjoy being with them and they find you useful. So they ask you back and you create a shorthand and you can give yourself more easily because you don't have to establish a trust because you're already in. You know that they'll protect you. Yeah. And also if you give yourself to someone, you don't know how the movie's going to be, but you know why you're doing it. And I like also the idea of being part of the fabric of somebody's work. It probably comes from the idea of like in the theater. Yeah, family. Where you go back, like with the Wooster Group,

we did some shows because we do old shows next to new shows all the time. I did shows where I played three different roles because I was with that company for 27 years. So I aged out of one role and went into another role. And how cool is that? And for someone that follows that work, it expands things a little bit. So I kind of like the idea that it's kind of the pleasure of that thing that you get from movie stars, where you see them as part of a language through storytelling or a film experience. And there's an added pleasure for that. So you get that kind of pleasure without being a movie star. If you're in multiple movies,

there's a whole story in that. You might even have a relationship in one role where you're being kind of infantilized. And there's another role where maybe you're being feared by the director. You could have all these dynamic relationships driven by whatever character you're playing. It's true. That's kind of fun. It's almost like role playing with a lover. Yeah.

And then the audience. Without the sex. I was going to say. I don't know. We'll see where it goes. But it is funny the way you just. Well, you're right. You said director.

Yeah. Listen, my two major relationships in my life have been with- Female directors. Yeah. That says a lot about you as well that you won't want to talk about. Here's one that I just have. You could just be private, which is totally respectable, but there also, we've talked to many actors that struggle with the notion.

I would imagine, particularly for an actor like you, that takes huge swings, plays big characters, that you want to have that option at all time. And you don't want people to know terribly much about you. Do you have any of that? Yes, but then, as we're experiencing right now, push me and I'll talk. No, I'm social. And sometimes you use press or whatever to kind of try to articulate what you're doing. And also, it's fun sometimes. I got to admit it.

It's forced reflection. It is, exactly. It's just in public, which is weird. But sometimes I kick myself and say, why don't you just shut up? Because I think it's better not to know anything about the personal life of an actor. Because you carry it when you see that person on the screen. I just know that personally, if I know something really unsavory or I don't like about a person, it affects how I can watch them. If their politics really are repellent to you,

it factors in when I watch them. You can't help it. So in a way, I like to do press. I like to support movies, particularly movies that I adore. But even movies that are flawed, you go to bat for it because you were there. Yeah. You've been in 150 movies at this point. Would you agree? I say this all the time. I never will say a bad thing about a movie on here ever in public. I think that's good. I will say good things about movies, so you can kind of read between the lines. My thought is like having every one I've done,

we tried our hardest. I've literally not been on one where I was like, no one here is trying. I've been on somewhere I'm like, I don't think this can add up to much, but you're trying. I think that's true. Also, I always remember,

I really don't want to say the name because he's dead, but there was one actor that was very popular, but he made bad movies, movies that I didn't like. And then I remember that I saw him in a movie where I thought he was really great. And then I heard an interview with him and he said, oh, there's one movie that I hate. It was the one you loved. And the movie I loved. Part of me says, who cares? But another part of me, it was disappointing. I was happy that I liked him in a movie.

And I liked the movie. And I had theories why that was good. And the fact that he was so counter to that disturbed me. Okay, this is great. I had this experience. My very, very favorite drama of all time for whatever reason i couldn't write a paper on why it's good but thief by michael mann and again i won't get in particulars but i'll just say i had watched that movie upwards of a hundred times

and then there was a dvd with the commentary on it where you got to hear all the actors talk about what was that round up for you fucking regret listening to that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so i do relate like i was like no i don't want to know that yeah yeah yeah i thought something else was going on that i was really vibing with and it wasn't that at all so funny though because i'm the opposite i want i want to know everything i want to know all the details the commentary is pretty much my my favorite part on DVDs so that I could feel more a part of it. It makes you feel more connected or more on the inside or something. So I see both. It's true. Okay. I only want to ask you about two things and then we're going to get into poor things. But for me, wild at heart, there's two things you're front row to. David Lynch and for

me, Nick Cage at like peak. And again, as a kid, he was my dude. What was that experience like? You were David Lynch too, who's like on another planet. And then you have this actor who's on another planet. And you're on another planet. That was a very good experience. And the thing that is remarkable about it, first of all, yeah, it was exciting to be around David. I've worked with Nick another time, too, on a film called Dog Eat Dog. And I feel like even a third time.

But anyway, I've got lots of different feelings about Nick. But of course, he does swing for the fences and he does act on impulse and he's fun to work with. We agree. Anyone who's got 100% commitment, I applaud. Even if I don't like the outcome. He doesn't wait and he tries to amuse himself also and tries to find a way to engage himself personally. And sometimes those impulses, who knows? He works a lot.

How often can you go to the well? I work a lot too. He was fun. But the memorable thing, because really the great scene in Wild at Heart for my character is the scene with Laura Dern, in fact. But the cool thing about that is I think that was a successful character. I mean, a good character, a memorable character, a fun character to do, but I did so little. They gave me everything. They gave me a beautiful

costume. No choice, no discussion. Lynch said, you're wearing this. On a hanger. This is yours, Willem, Like that. My little contribution was probably the idea of having a little mustache. And then I remember vividly, and I've talked about this a lot, those teeth that I was wearing. You know, it reads in the script, broken, stumpy, yellow teeth or something. And it's a perfect example of how actors can put limitations on themselves. I thought, okay, they'll just color them. Well, your direct quote I heard you say is, great, I already have them. And it's a perfect example of how actors can put limitations on themselves. I thought, okay, they'll just color them.

Well, your direct quote I heard you say is, great, I already have them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you said. My teeth are funky anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you thought you were good to go. And he was like, we got to get you to a dentist, Willem, to get the teeth. And we got these dentures that went over my teeth. And they were so big that I couldn't close my mouth.

So I'm like a mouth breather. And if you do this, do this right now. I mean, the next thing you want to do is go. It's a trigger. You're always looking for those triggers. Not only do you have a beautiful script, a beautiful director framing you, good actors. But for your imagination, it's those little triggers that make me feel like, yeah, I'm the guy. I got something going, you know? Yes, yes. As you said, you're hungry now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You want something to chew on. Yeah. It's probably nothing you could plan. It's something that happens. So you always try to make yourself available for those triggers, or you try to find them. It's often an external element, but then you internalize it or it triggers something. You know, Bobby Peru probably was invented in Appleton, Wisconsin, by some of the greasers that I know.

It was my opportunity to play those guys. And what led me to that? Something that you can't even access maybe that makes you feel different stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare okay so i saw this incredible thing these two two social scientists, they had sat down, this is in the 80s, I think, to try to map every single facial expression. And they're sitting together for months doing this, and they're going through the list of every emotion. And they're trying to themselves make that, because they're trying to learn about nonverbal communication and what is all expressed in the face and it's so expressive and what they discovered in that process that we of course think of emotions creating the look on our face which is true but when they were forced

to make a sad look well lo and behold the emotion then you would become sad yes ah of course then they scientifically it's so cool yes yes, these teeth for you, they backfilled all these emotions. No, strike the pose and something will happen. See what happens. Make the movement and you'll have an association. And the trick is really to show up and be available to that. I'm very turned on by that. I mean, it's a very simple thing,

but everybody thinks it's about producing things. It's about ideas. It's about choices. It's about directing something, about expressing, interpreting something. Okay. There is that. But the heart of performing, I think, is being open to these things that happen. Right. And they're handed to you by what's in the room, by the people that you're looking at. It's about receiving and dealing with what's there because that roots it. All the planning and all the showing and all the ideas, then it becomes didactic.

It becomes flat. It doesn't have life anymore. Well, you're just executing a plan. Yeah. Some people do that brilliantly and it's fun to watch, but it's a little closed. I mean, I think that's for life too. It is. Right?

Instead of just always, what am I doing? It's what can I take in? What can I observe about the world that then affects you? As opposed to like, how do I impact the world? How does the world impact me? Okay. the world how does the world impact me okay so on that do you find that you're somebody who sucks people into their bubble or gets sucked into people's bubble i get sucked in i think i'm the kind of guy that i go to a party and people have to drag me away from the most boring

person in the party because i get stuck with them because I get into them. Can you think off the top of your head? Because there's one I want you to say, but just give me a couple of the actors that you've most enjoyed getting sucked into their bubble. Oh, fuck. Right? Because you're scared that you're saying now your favorite co-stars. That's not the question.

I know, I know. But that's what comes to mind. You're being too protective. I could tell you, well, that doesn't happen. I could tell you, is that negative? I assume you're that person for most people. No, I don't know. Yes, I think so.

In those fake situations, you fall in love easy, you get mad easy. It's easy to empathize. That's the beauty of it. You're free to do that. It is a very bizarre, and as you're saying it, maybe it's the first time I thought about it, but in your life, you're trying to maintain some kind of status quo, homeostasis,

not let yourself get too up, too down. But then you have this job where it's like, you go to set and you go like, oh, the goal today is to show the apex of human emotion in this moment and the nadir of human emotion. It's absolutely opposite of how you're proceeding through life in a way and the nadir of human emotion. It's absolutely opposite of how you're perceiving life in a way. It's true. But I never think about emotion. Because to think about emotion is to think about effect. And to think about effect, that's what makes you

tight. And if you think about effect, you're putting the cart before the horse. Because you get to that funeral scene. And of course, if you're stupid, you're going to think, oh, I got to cry. The character's missing his mother. Yeah, yeah. What if you're there, you're purely pretending, and you think it's a beautiful thing that she's died, and you're kind of surprised, and it may not on paper make any psychological sense, but it's happening to you, and it's totally valid. That's when the beautiful things happen. That's why you can't get too obsessed. and it's totally valid. That's when the beautiful things happen.

That's why you can't get too obsessed. You've got to have a plan and then you've got to discard it. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I think. But I don't think about emotions. That's a little dangerous and that's also what tightens you up. Well, you know,

when you think of the character as a cry in the scene, there's now an objective. And so now once there's an objective, there's also failures in the mix. Yep. Because in essence, you can't fail at it if you're just there. You'll fail to be there because you're outside of the scene.

And this is personal taste. Everybody works differently. But that idea about substitution, like if you decide that you're at the funeral and you look at the body and you're coming up dry, so you think of your dead dog that you loved as a kid, and that's a trigger for you and you can emote, that's fair. But I think you're out of the scene. Yeah, you are. You're in you.

You're you again. Yeah. Yeah. And that may work fine, but somehow it feels too crafty. And we know this from some great films where you don't feel the acting because people are there. Look how beautiful it is to see movies where there aren't actors.

Florida Project. Yeah, they tell you what to do because it's their life. Yeah. They teach you. You can't Hollywood it up when they're right next to you because they're living it.

And you slipstream their life. Okay. The other last thing was of course, Wes Anderson and Life Aquatic. Beautiful experience. I mean, I just, I've loved watching you so much. It's so fun every time you pop up, but then just when you joined that world, I was like, Oh, here we go. This couldn't be more of a match made in heaven. Ah, it was fun. I would think of two for you, Coen brothers. Yeah. I knew Fran very early, and she also worked with the Worcester Group when I was there.

Oh, she did? Yeah, yeah. I'm such a fan of hers. Also, I worked with her on Mississippi Burning, and we became friendly. And I knew Joel, and I liked their movies. You know, it's one of those things where it just never happened. Once they asked me to do something more substantial, and I couldn't do it because of schedule. And they asked me to do a small thing and I couldn't do it.

So maybe they thought. There's still time. There's still time. Yeah, yeah. My question about Life Aquatic is, it seems to me, and I could be totally wrong because I've never been in a Wes Anderson movie, nor have I acted with Bill Murray. Bill Murray's great. Well, he's my North Star. He's always chasing something authentic. And you wouldn't think so because in his performances,

he seems so wry and it's not glib, but I think he's always trying to find the truth. He's also very much about timing in the old fashioned way. The rhythm of the delivery. Yeah. And that's something you jump onto? I did, because I enjoy being with him so much. I think of you as my dad's. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, he sets you up. It's call and response, and he's so good. He's slippery, God knows, but I really enjoyed that. And I like the role of, just in broad terms, the blowhard German. Yes. But there was such a weird sweetness to it. Yeah, yeah. That made it so three-dimensional.

That's the idea. The guy that comes on like he's got it under control, but he's a little boy mess, you know? He needs a dad. Yeah, yeah. But what I was thinking on the surface, just knowing what I think I know about Wes and what I think I know about Bill is that you have on one end the director who is one of the most meticulous human beings to ever do the thing. And then seemingly you have the actor who's the loosest goosest, let's find out what lightning strikes. And you are somehow in the middle of those two things. That's good.

That's good. I mean, I like to think I can go between those poles. Exactly. But is it a unique experience to be in that dynamic? Yes. I've worked with Wes. Life Aquatic was pretty substantial, but so was Grand Budapest. But they were very different experiences because Life Aquatic was very loose. Still, he had those beautiful, big master shots, very complicated. You rehearsed them all day. They went on forever. If you had a mistake or a stumble or anything, you're in the toilet, you got to go again. You do lots of takes and then finally you get it because there's nothing to cut to. Right. And to remind people, sometimes there's a cross

section of the ship and you're going from scene to scene to scene. Like there's 12 scenes in 12 different locations and yet you fuck up number six. Yeah. Yeah. So it's crazy like that. But all the time he was adding elements, he'd be like, Willem, you go in there. And it was exciting. And I think he's got more and more articulate and more precise. So Life Aquatic was a little bump before that. That's fun you've gotten to see the different iterations of it. And it's not a criticism at all. It's, in fact, a refinement.

And Life Aquatic is very loopy. But the thing that I love about Life Aquatic is it lands at the end. You see all these floating things that you don't quite get them. You're laughing. They're odd. They're strange. They're beautiful. And then at the end,

some of those things about father, son, identity, boom. And it's really moving. You can't believe it. And I love that movie for that. Yeah. It's one of these movies too that gets better and better and better as you watch it, which is always an interesting life for a movie. One thing I want to say, because I don't want it to go without saying, we've had a lot of people in here who've worked with you. I was about to

tell that. Are you about to tell Rami? We loved Rami, but Bradley, I mean, we've had a lot and you always come up when we ask these questions about like, who do you like working with or what was it like? And you're always in the mix of, oh, he's incredible. And he sucks you in. And he is the North Star and the one. And you tether yourself to Dafoe. Exactly.

I'm touched. I really am. Yeah, it's really common in here. Well, this one surprised me. You know who really loved you is Rami. It's the most we've fallen in love with. He was awesome. Yes, in two hours where I was like,

I'm ready to move in with you and follow your spiritual journey. He's a sweet man and talented and very humble. And he's interesting because he balances a lot of contradictory things, you know? Yes. He's amazing. That was my great interest in him as I'm watching his show, Rummy, which is so fucking good. And he has this perspective, yet we're still adhering to this old thing. And that's confusing to me.

And how are you making peace with this? And he's doing it. It's very fascinating. I get a sense that he's really got a calling. I agree. That's always beautiful. But he talked about being out at dinner with you in public. We had so much fun on that movie.

And I'm not known as a funny guy. But in that crowd, I always felt like I was a funny guy. Oh, that's a good one. And that's a nice thing. A big time. You know, they'd laugh at my jokes. Yes. Not even laugh at my jokes so much as laugh at my making fun of them or making fun of myself.

Yeah, yeah. But what he said is, and I guess I wouldn't have thought of this, but it seems so obvious once he said it, which is he has been around, quote, more famous people, but he's never been around. But he was saying, which is so true, and I weirdly kind of relate to it. You're so identifiable. You're so specific looking. So this happens to my wife and I. My wife is by all accounts more famous than me. But if we're in the airport together, they'll look at her and they'll go, oh, that looks like Kristen Bell.

But they look at me and they're like, well, that's definitely that nose that he's struck nine feet tall. That's him. So I think you have that. There's no like that guy over there looks like Willem Dafoe. You're like, holy fuck, it's Willem Dafoe. I'm shocked at how recognizable I am. Yes. holy fuck, it's Willem Dafoe.

I'm shocked at how recognizable I am. Yeah. Yes. I remember even very early, New York City, still a little rough. I'm on the subway. I'm taking my kid, who was a little kid at that time, to the zoo, which is quite a schlep if you take the subway from downtown to the Bronx. And we go through some funky neighborhoods, and it's still when the subways weren't that cool.

And I see this group of young kids come on the train and they're looking at us and they're giving me a hard look. And I'm thinking, oh no, they're not going to give me a hard time with the kid here. They're looking at me, staring at me. I'm thinking, oh boy, here we go. Oh, no. What am I going to do? Yeah, yeah. So I'm ready, and I can hear them talking. And I hear, no, no, got to be him. Nobody looks like that motherfucker. Nobody looks like that motherfucker. Oh, that's perfect. There's no way there's two of those motherfuckers on this planet.

I like it, and I don't like it. It's hard to be anonymous. Well, I can deal with that. People are so sweet to me. Rami was saying specifically, not only are you insanely recognizable, but the effect he said is immediate. People are thrilled. I'm getting self-conscious now.

Of course you are. But I really want to impress upon you. People are so nice to me that I try to give people as best as I can their time. I don't think it's about me. You know, when you take a selfie with someone and you put your arm around them and you feel their body shaking, it's the excitement of contacting something. It's not about me. It's about association and about people touching on something. People are sweet and they give me lots of good energy. And also, just practically speaking, I don't have a huge problem with this.

I think TV people are people that people see all the time. People think they know them. In their house. That's the key. It's in their house. That's a big thing. They're in their underwear watching you. Yeah.

I don't have that problem. But I always feel like whatever makes it go easy, that's better. Because it's so much more work to say, not now. Weirdly is. And then you also feel shitty when you walk away. I feel shitty. And they feel rejected. So you've zung them for no reason at all.

It's easier to go with it. Then sometimes I think I'm just small time and I enjoy it. That's also a wonderful way to approach it. All right, Poor Things. Love it. Will you pronounce the director's name? Yeah, Yorgos Lanthimos.

I loved Lobster, but I loved The Favourite. We loved. Oh my God. Oh my God. I did too. What a fucking movie. And also I like all of his movies, but to varying degrees.

I also like Killing of a Sacred Deer. Oh yeah, yeah. That's a very interesting movie. Back to Houdini. Okay, Houdini. You see people, they do something, a director. I think there's overlap here. I think really what it is, it's you go,

and you already said it once. How did they do that? I kind of want to get close. I want to experience it. Because ultimately I think there's a magic trick that was had. And you're like, I want to get in the workshop with this person. And not even to demystify it. It's about, you want to know where it come from and where it's going to. You want to be in proximity to this little magic, right? And so there's so many ways to evaluate, like, do you have the dream career or not? And I would argue, especially for what you're interested in, you totally do in the way that when you have a favorite TV show, the notion for me, I remember

saying to my agent, like, if I could just be a waiter crossing through in Sopranos, I just want to enter the world I love. You're virtually in that position where it's like, you find something that gets you excited and you go, let me experience it. It's true. That's a good spot to be in. It is, but let's not talk about it. You're afraid to jinx it and mess it up. Yeah, you'd bastardize it. But poor things. I'm really excited.

We're furious. They wouldn't give us a link for whatever reason, but I was only left to watch the trailer. So you didn't see it. No, we asked multiple times and then no link. All I've got is the trailer. You look incredible. No, it's a beautiful movie and

it's very rich. The design is beautiful. It's where collaboration works and he is quite amazing. If you like the favorite, you'll love this. I can't wait. What an exciting fun cast. You, Emma Stone who I just couldn't be more interested in

an actor than her every time she shows up I'm like oh and she can do that too she's talented she's smart she's available and she's just a really good person I like being around her she's so balanced and so much fun and you said she's a hard-ass worker, too. She shows up to work. Yeah, she is. She does. The collaboration, she's at the center of this movie. Yorgoth brought her into it very early. She's a producer on the movie. They've got a special chemistry between them.

So we're there to support that thing that they had. And then it emanates out, and we get touched by it, too. Had you worked with Ruffalo no i had met him and he's a wisconsin boy you know he is yeah i didn't know that he seems i have a pull to his what seems to be his spirit that i can't explain he's really great in this he has a really good time and it's a great role you'll just laugh your your ass off. Did you see The Foxcatcher? I did. I found him to be so devastating in that.

Also, that director, Bennett Miller, has not made a bad movie. There aren't too many directors that you can say that to, but all of his movies, maybe there are more, but I can think of four, and they're all great. It's hard to do,

because again, there's magic. You can have all the ingredients, but also something happens when you put it in the oven. You crush your fingers. But this looks so beautiful and not to be trashy, but it had a budget, thank God. It's beautiful. Your character, you're a mad, you're a Frankenstein

character. Don't say mad. Okay. Because that sends us to another place and that's not what it's about. Okay. Because that sends us to another place. Okay. And that's not what it's about. Okay. What can you tell us about? Well, you put a baby brain in an adult woman, right?

Yeah. Some people might on the surface call that mad. But you don't know his situation. No, yeah. Wait, that's the premise. You don't know his situation. The premise is she is Willem's creation, Dr. Goodwin Baxter, and she has a baby brain in an adult woman's body. Someone told me this is a spoiler, so I don't know.

Well, that was in the trailer. That's basically it. So then you have a woman that physically is a woman, but she's got a baby's brain, so she's learning everything. And she has no social conditioning, no filter, so she's just telling it like it is. So she's an innocent, and she's the wisest person in the world because she's not tainted by all the constructs, and which are particularly rigid in this imagined Victorian era,

which is dealt with in a very fantastical way. Some artistic license is taken there in the design that is just spectacular. You guys haven't been able to see it. But we're going to get to in a few days. We'll pay money and go see it as it should be. That's true. Exactly. It premiered at Venice, is that what it was?

It premiered at Venice and won the top prize, which is no small feat. Yeah. Rightly so. And it's received very good response so far. And Rami's his protege, an aspiring, not mad scientist. He's a student of mine. But the relationships are beautiful. And then this woman, I don't know what to tell because what's a spoiler?

Right, that's the fear. You know. I'm excited to see her explore her sexuality. That was the part that gets explored that I want to most see. Well, of course. No, it's different. There's something deeper. It's very rich thematically, visually.

Such a detailed world, such a specific world. It's funny. It's a beautiful movie. I'm so excited. This is the movie I'm most excited about this year. I'm really, really pumped. By far. We'll go to the movie theater.

Okay. Sorry, I didn't know what a spoiler was. Maybe they're trying to control it. They might be trying to not have the spoilers out early or something. And they know I'm a big mouth. Last thing, unsolicited advice. You don't need any, but did you see Triangle of Sadness? I did.

Did you enjoy it? I enjoyed it, but he made a better movie. Yes. It is a perfect movie. The Square or Force Majeure? I thought Force Majeure. What a movie. And what's interesting is not because of great performances.

It's the themes were so beautiful. It put its finger on a very male thing. Oh, yeah. That's like hard to articulate, but is so at the center of so many things. The fact that that one event- Ruined his entire- Exposed and ruined his entire life. I know.

Because he couldn't just say, I was a fucking coward. I was afraid. I threw you under the bus. Because it's not fair to make me be responsible for that. Because I'm a pussy. It's so good. Well, why'd you bring that up?

You want Willem to work with him? No, I'd love to. You know, who knows? People, you have it, you know. Sometimes they get you wrong. I was like shocked once. I can't remember who it was, but someone I wanted to work with said,

oh, he's got such a modern face. What? It was for a period movie. I thought, are you fucking kidding me? What does that mean? No, not only what does it mean, I've seen Bruegel paintings where I see myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The face hasn't changed that much. No, people just have ideas. That's what I mean. They get stuck. But that's okay. Okay, Willem, this was so delightful. I'm so glad that you were willing to do this on a Sunday. I'm so glad that we got to spend our Sunday with you. No, I'm glad you guys did it because I'm here today and I were willing to do this on a Sunday I'm so glad we got to spend our Sunday with you

No, I'm glad you guys did it because I'm here today and I know you don't usually tape on a Sunday Oh no, we would meet you on a subway That's right Any time, in the Bronx, 3am we would do anything New York, I thought, it's done it's what everyone said, it's a city of ghosts for me

it's gentrified, only rich people and recently I had to go there and I had lots of meetings. It was impossible with the schedule I had to make it with the cabs. Right. You had to take the subway. It was great. It reaffirmed what I love about New York.

There is still- There's still grit. A lot of grit. And now keep in mind, everybody in that place has a thousand dollar cell phone or whatever, you know? True. I had the exact same experience four weeks ago. I talked about it on the fact check. We rode the subway everywhere for whatever reason.

My wife and I were there. Do you get busted a lot? Yeah. People are cool, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Particularly in New York. Especially in New York. It's like, you're my buddy.

We're like the fifth exciting thing they had seen that morning. They saw a guy take a shit on one of the platforms someone got knifed you know there's a car accident and then we're there and like yeah it doesn't really peak above what we just saw but it is cool it's the perfect amount on the subway it's like you get a smile and you get away with some stuff that otherwise you want it it's the dream but yeah i was reminded of like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah as a point of being i should be on that subway more than i am and people cooperate that's what's kind of amazing a city like that there's too much misery and it's too hard living that way you think people would wake up and kill

each other and they really don't no yeah well a delight i'm really really glad you're willing yes great luck i hope everyone sees poor things it's out right now looks beautiful it's got the Yeah. Well, a delight. I'm really, really glad you were willing to do this. Thank you. Yes. Great luck. I hope everyone sees Poor Things. It's out right now. Looks beautiful. It's got the best cast imaginable. Sounds complex as hell in a great way. Yes.

Layers, layers, layers. I hope we'll get to talk to you again someday. This was so much fun. Yeah, sure. I'm into it. Good. Take care. Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

Good morning. You're still wearing your new shoes. They're still pretty white. Yeah. Not for long. Will you get them cleaned if they get dirty? I want to. Do you have a place that, like people who collect Jordans have shoe cleaners?

I don't. I want to be a person who does that. I just don't. I've talked about this with several of my male black friends. For them, the sneakers have to be spotless, which I get the history of. It's a new thing you want. Weirdly, where I grew up, you wanted your shoes dirty. It was like the opposite.

It was embarrassing to have new flashy shoes. Interesting. The tall poppy thing, I think. It was somehow cooler that your shit was worn out. And I have a hard time. You had that too. Yeah, so I can't really shake that. Even these boots.

I'm like, I can't wait till these are worn and they look crazy right now. I could see that. Their boots are pink. I know. I like them. Kind of like a till these are worn and they look crazy right now. I could see that. Their boots are pink. I know. I like them. Kind of like a mauve pink. Yeah, they match your shirt. Ish.

From this distance, yeah, when I held them up next to each other, it's not a match, but it's enough. But you don't want it to be perfect. Okay. It's like, I guess, this new clean shoe thing. You don't want it to be perfect. Because the shirt's almost a salmon and the boots are almost a pink. Well, what I like is that it looks like the shirt matches the laces.

Oh, great. That's what you want. You know what? You're right. That is a bingo. Salmon laces in pink. But these are Red Wings and they just came out with a light pinkish color. What are Red Wings?

Red Wings are the ultimate work boot. Oh. Yeah. I feel like this is like an episode ad. It's not at all. I've always loved Red Wings. They're work boots, but they're kind of like work boots if you're a finished carpenter. Like if you're in the house more than you're out of the house.

Like a Doc Martin? But no? No, no. What would be a comparable work boot? It's escaping my name. But they're work. Carhartts? Carters.

Oh, Carters. Are they a work boot? They're a children's clothing brand. Yeah. Then they're just like Carters boots. Yeah. Timberland? Yeah.

Timberland. Oh, I used to love Timberland. Yeah. They were really hot for a second. Yeah. Yep. Timberland's a good workberland. Oh, I used to love Timberland. Yeah. They were really hot for a second. Yeah. Yep, Timberland's a good work boot. Okay, cool. Yeah.

I'm really behind on my Christmas shopping. Same. It's not good. I've bought one present. Me too. Me too. You do? Yeah, I got one thing for Natalie so far.

I really, really need to get on it. You do. I got one thing for Natalie so far. I really, really need to get on it. Before we started this, we could hear, Rob and I could hear the crane. At your house. You've got the neighborhood shut down. Do you know that?

Yeah, I do. Do you love it? No, I don't love being a problem. How long is it shut down for? Hopefully not. I don't think too many more days. It was loud. The crane was loud? The cement truck too.

Yeah, I guess it was the cement truck that was loud. Oh, they're pouring cement back there? How exciting. I went jogging yesterday in the neighborhood, and it's closed down. We're just in front of your house. And I was on foot, and I was getting some looks from some of the folks, and then I thought, are they going to say I can't pass here on foot? Yeah. But I did. Good. But I had that little pang of anxiety that there was going to be a power struggle about whether I could jog by.

Yeah. So stuff's happening, which is exciting. My designers were picked. They won some architecture AD award today. What does AD stand for? Architectural Digest? Yeah. Oh, how exciting. Very. Nikki Kehoe did. Oh, wonderful.

You had dinner with Liz last night. I had dinner with Liz. We went to Craig's. Oh, you did. We did. That's your spot now. Well, it's the second time I've been. Any more paparazzi photos?

No. Okay. No. Okay. No paparazzi. They were there, but I didn't see any flashes, and I didn't see anyone who was CNBC-ing. Uh-huh. But it was fun. Oh, and Liz, her doctor told her that she should try to incorporate some meat into her diet. Oh.

And so she tried chicken. Okay. What'd she think? It was, it was. And don't they have a famous chicken there? Isn't that what they're known for? They do. They do.

She didn't get that one though. Interesting. She got a roast chicken. Well, she can't also have some other stuff. Okay. So she couldn't have that. But the roast chicken she got, and she did good. She ate some bites.

Some bites. Yeah. Okay. It's going to be a slow transition okay but she's doing her best and she obviously she felt ethically that the bird's the least offensive is that why she chose chicken so i'd like to get her into a fucking big old cheeseburger that's not that's the best tasting meat there is that would be like zero to a hundred okay going red meat it's funny distinctions we all have.

Not being critical of it, but we do all have all these distinctions. Like this animal, but not that animal. But animals, but not this animal. Well, it's also like the taste. To me, I would say beef is very meaty. But would you agree? Well, you tell me. What do you think is the best tasting meat?

I guess I would say beef. I do really like chicken, though. I do, too. But if I'm being honest about chicken, now, granted, there are some rotisserie birds that are beautiful. Yeah. But in general, what I would be comparing the hamburger to would be the chicken sandwich at Houston's. Oh. Or Chick-fil-A. But that's breading. You have to put this beautiful, delicious, crispy breading on it to make it maybe being a two-way tie with a great burger

but a fucking smash burger with no bullshit is outrageously tasty i guess that's true it's like if you're thinking of you're thinking of just a patty yeah like a chicken breast versus yeah just a patty i don't think that that's not even close for me yeah or even let's throw bacon in the mess i was gonna say you're missing bacon yeah perfectly crispy piece of bacon if you you're thick and crispy and if your doctor told you you need some meat like let's start there that is the tastiest piece of meat you can come by i do love i do love bacon fucking bacon so good i really wish i could have a blt oh that's what i would like to have you could probably make one easy the Gluten-free bread is garbage. Oh.

There just isn't a great gluten-free bread. Yeah. Although I will say there's one at Cafe 101 that at least allows me to make an egg sandwich and dip the bread in the yolk, which was the thing I missed the most. Okay. It's enough. It's enough. But I don't think for a BLT it would be good enough.

You've probably never even tried that terrible bread, have you? I don't think so. YeahT it would be good enough. You've probably never even tried that terrible bread, have you? I don't think so. Yeah. I mean, I've had so many gluten-free things with Cali. So maybe there's a chance, but I don't remember it. No, what's interesting is they have perfected, like, a gluten-free cupcake can be delicious. Yeah. There are gluten-free snacky items that really work.

And so you could be misled. Like you could have a gluten-free cupcake and go like, yeah, this isn't much of a concession. And then assume, well, the bread must be a similar concession. Yeah. That's not the case. Yeah. I'm trying to think. It was so funny because Callie went gluten-free in college.

Wow. And it was so early. Did she have some medical condition? Yes, she has celiac. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it was before the trend of it. Yeah, yeah. And more so very few people were diagnosed with that.

Yeah. And it was impossible. It was so hard. Sure, right. For her to eat anything. Yeah, in 2005 or whatever year. Yeah, and to like go to restaurants. Because it's hidden if you

have an allergy you see how it's everywhere it is ever it's in everything it's in soy sauce it's in gravy it's in yes yeah and people when you would say like is it gluten-free they didn't no one knew what that meant you'd have to like do your own research It was crazy. It was crazy. So she's really got to see a whole industry. She got in at the ground floor. She was an early adopter. Yeah, my cousin had that where she, what can happen if you have it, well, whatever the version, my cousin had it, it can inflame your whole digestive tract so much,

your digestive tract can't absorb any nutrients yeah so she was eating but she was basically dying of malnutrition and ended up in the hospital like what she's dying what's going on and that's how serious the celiac was for her is she irish well we're um we have the exact same bloodline well no we have half of it's different. Then that's significant. But you know, this is the interesting thing about my Papa Bob and Grandma Yolis and my Uncle Jerry, her Papa Jerry, and Auntie Juan, because two sisters married two brothers. So really, her side of that bloodline is identical. Even though we're cousins, my dad and her mom are like siblings. They have the exact same amount of genetic diversity as they would with their sibling.

Oh. Which is weird. That is weird. Yeah. They would refer to themselves as double first cousins. I don't know if that's an actual term. Oh. But it is interesting to have cousins that you have the same two parent streams.

Right. Interesting. Weird. Yeah. That's kind of cool. That is is cool and they hung out non-stop you know yeah and they live one block over from each other oh so sweet that's really sweet yeah well anyway it's apparently prevalent in the irish community ciliac yeah yeah god and then there's also a lot of redheads in the irish population and you know there's a lot to look out for

you're irish you think you're thinking you got it made's a lot to look out for if you're Irish. You think you got it made. You're going to be singing Gaelic songs and playing a flute and drinking Guinness. But guess what? You keep your eyes peeled for some other stuff, too. Well, I don't know that. I don't know that. It's not all leprechauns and rainbows.

But redheadedness minus the lower pain threshold. And the adverse reaction to anesthetic, anesthesia. Right, right. And then what happens when they get in fist fights? Sure. Minus that, it's great to be a redhead. Tell me why. It's gorgeous.

I love it. Oh, I love it. Yes, yes, me too. Aesthetically, I think it's very pleasing. Yeah. Someone I posted the other day, because Emma Stone, what color do you think her hair is? Got a red tint to brown. Red.

Most people think of her as a redhead. Do they? Yeah. Very mild though, right? Well, she actually has blonde hair. Oh, there we go. It just was dyed. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Maybe when she came into being known, she had red hair. Uh-huh. So a lot of people- She got stuck with it? Yeah, a lot of people think when she wears blonde hair, it looks wrong, but it's actually exactly correct. It's right. Yeah. Okay.

I can't wait to see her movie with Willem. Well, ding, ding, ding. Oh, is this who this is? Yeah. I'm so excited. Willem is so artistic. I find him intimidating. Yeah.

Do you at all? Yeah. Well, yeah, I do. I do. I agree. Yeah. But just because of his experience and his, not because he's mean. He was very kind.

Oh, absolutely. I just, like, it wasn't his demeanor so much as because he's like mean or like he was very kind. Oh, absolutely. I just, like it wasn't his demeanor so much as everything he's come with. It's all what I'm projecting. It's all my stuff. Yeah, which is. What is interesting though is I would put like Cate Blanchett in his category. But I wouldn't be intimidated. It would be a different sensation.

So I'm wondering how much of it is like male on male. And I'm wondering for you yeah because the insecure side of me says well i have nothing to offer this guy right like he's on another he's on this artistic trip and i'm i'm not like someone he's gonna be interested in but i think maybe male female i always have the hope. Well, we could have fun chatting still. Like I could have some, I have at least my maleness to offer. Oh, interesting.

Do you think you would feel more intimidated by Cate Blanchett than Willem? No, I think I'd feel the same. Okay, interesting. Mainly because I don't think I have to offer either of them anything. Well, that's healthy. That's not really our... I mean, unless if they were in my life, yes, I would feel that way. And I would want their approval or I would want to feel like I was giving something. Yeah.

But in this job, no, other than having them feel comfortable to talk. Well, but that's what I was gonna say is like, it's very basic for me, which is what is not a fun episode of this show is if I'm just interviewing somebody and I'm asking them questions. If they're interested in us, now we have a conversation that's building on itself.

I'm floating an idea that appeals to them. They build on that. And then I build on theirs. And then we just keep climbing on this mutual interest in what each other is saying and wanting to further perfect it. If you're disinterested in me and I'm just a dude that's going to go through 60 questions with you, that's not fun for me and I don't think it makes for a good show. So if I get it in my mind that this person would naturally have zero interest in me, then I have that bit of anxiety. Right.

I get that. You know how it is. This is human nature. If you meet someone that you think doesn't have anything interesting going on, you're not going to engage them in conversation. Right. You're going to kind of avoid that conversation. Yeah, I guess that is definitely true. I think it's a little different here because even if they come here thinking, I'm not that interested.

Right. And I'm just going to answer questions. Once the conversation starts, it's comfortable enough, and I feel like you should be confident enough that you can have an interesting conversation with a person and that quickly they'll be like, oh yeah, I want to talk to this person. And I do have that. And then it becomes a matter of like, will it be, will it take a half an hour for that moment to happen? It's happened a bunch in here and it's totally fair. I'm not even saying these people should come in with some excitement to talk to me that isn't even my assumption but like pete um the coach pete carol pete carol that like really sticks out in my mind he clearly was told to come here that's just one that's that's that is the the foundation of the

experience from the beginning like someone told him you really should do this no desire to do it i know the moment it just like it clicked and he went, oh, wait, I'm enjoying being here. And then it then it took this fascinating turn. And I love it. And I do think we can always get there. Just in the dream world, we'd start there. I get it. Because then we're building higher and higher.

It's like, do we start building halfway through this experience or do we start from the second? Like when John Batiste walks in and it starts immediately? Yeah. Yeah. So that makes sense. It's more intimidating if you feel like you have more to do

at the top or something to get them there. Yes. I get that. And then I go back to this generic thought about male femaleness. Like I find that the opposite sex is always more interesting

in some weird way because they think of the world differently or they're experiencing the world differently. So I'm just always a little bit more interested. Yeah, that's. I rightly or wrongly presumed already know too much about most dudes. Oh, yeah. So that could limit your curiosity. Yeah.

That picture of him as a young person. Yeah. Is shocking. He's gorgeous, right? People should look it up he's just been working for so long that we don't i don't think of him as that at all no you met this version yeah yeah he's so talented and even i think the very first thing i saw him in was most likely platoon which is 80 i don't know eight or nine or something like that. Yeah. And he very much looks like the Willem we know.

But the 70s version, the young kid. Yeah. Could have been like in a cigarette ad. Mm-hmm. Speaking of that, speaking of his work, so he worked with Nick Cage three times. He had said two, and he was like, maybe a third, but he couldn't remember. Can you imagine not remembering if you worked with Nick Cage one, two, or three times? Yeah, well, when you've done 150 movies.

He did Wild at Heart, Dog Eat Dog, and Shadow of a Vampire. Ah. They did those three. Okay, so Houdini was born in Budapest. How many people still die of diarrhea? Oh, interesting. That was a conversation? Yes, because-

Oh, because of Mamma Mia Papapia. Exactly. And you know how we were talking about how you can't spell anonymous? Yeah. I can't spell diarrhea. Yeah, it's an incredibly hard one because there's an RH in there. Yeah, I need a technique. Can I try to spell it right now?

Yeah. Let's see. hard one because there's an rh in there yeah i need can i try to spell it right now yeah dia d-i-a-r-h-i-a no no d-i-a-r-r oh fuck that h-e-a oh fuck you i know i hate this language of ours really hard that one is madden's maddening. That one's tough. That one's tough. Oh my God, there are four types. Of diarrhea. Yeah.

I think I must've experienced all of them. I'm sure, yeah. Hot and splashy? No. Okay, osmo- Lucy, what if the names were like Lucy Goosey, but these were scientific terms? Sorry, I interrupted you.

That's okay. Osmotic, secretory. Ooh, I interrupted you. That's okay. Osmotic secretory. Ooh, is that what a secretary is? It sounds like it. Exudative. That feels like what I have. Rapid intestinal transit. Ooh.

Oh, my God. Glad I've not had the bloody version. Same. Now, mind you, I did have an anal fissure. I think I've talked about it before. Yeah, but it wasn't. But it wasn't had the bloody version. Same. Now, mind you, I did have an anal fissure. I think I've talked about it before. Yeah, but it wasn't. But it wasn't related to Honus. In fact, I was praying for Honus at that point.

Oh. Because the harder the, the more it would open up the. Oh, yeah. You start wondering, can one ever get over this? Because you have to poop every day. Yeah, because it's a constant. Yeah. Yeah.

How does it? You just, it just heals. Well, you start taking a softener. Oh, okay. Stool softener. Sure. That's step one. Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. How does it? It just heals. Well, you start taking a softener. Oh, okay. Stool softener. Sure. That's step one. Okay, great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it heals. Yeah, over time it heals. Wow. It's one of those things, too, where it's like just time goes by and you look up and you go, oh, wow, I think it's been six months since that happened. I guess we're over it. You know these things? Yeah.

Like a backache or whatever. It's not sometimes until months later where you go, oh, that's past. Yeah, I've been dealing with that with this freckle on my finger. You keep trying to get rid of it and it keeps coming back. Yeah. It's always going to come back, Monica. No, it's not. I've done a great job getting rid of freckles in the past.

Okay. And this one is stubborn, but- You just pick it off? That's what's happening? Yeah, I dig in and then I get it out. And unfortunately, this one likes to reappear and make- Are you sure it's not a wart? Well, I don't know.

I think maybe I've made it something that wasn't. A scar now? Yeah. Do you ever gnaw it off? Yeah. Yeah. Anna is very angry with me about this freckle procedure. Yeah.

She thinks I'm making cancer. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're increasing your odds of it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're increasing your odds of it. Yeah. Because cancer happens when cells are going through mitosis and they mutate. And so the more they go through mitosis, you're upping your chances of mutation. When she said that, I fought back.

But in my head, I did think, God, she might be right. But at this point, I'm too far in. Okay. And I need it gone. i would love it if you had a freckle there you could show us and we could take pictures of it i love it's interesting because you like freckles on other people freckles are great on people but not on me interesting yeah so i mean maybe i should go to the doctor and just get it checked out that's an out yeah that's a good cancer made a cancer oh my god she. Made a cancer. Oh my God, she just texted me.

Anna? Sim. Oh, I have an update. I met in this, I would have never thought I would have met this person. Who'd you meet? I met Christopher Columbus last night. Oh yeah, that's so cool. Oh my God.

I was shocked with what an incredible personality he had. Oh wow. Oh, he is so fun and playful and young. Because I was thinking- Really? Yes. I didn't know that. And at one point I turned to him and I said,

Chris, I'm having a hard time connecting your face that I'm seeing right now with the notion that you directed Home Alone in 1980 whatever. Yeah. How old were you when you made that movie? And he said 30 or 31. Wow. I was like, well, that explains it.

He was that young? Yes. And then we got into this fun conversation about how young Spielberg was. 27. Yeah. And had already directed a bunch before that, 27. And he said, yeah, he was in film school and that was the guy, right? Like they were all racing.

He would do something at some age and everyone that was currently in film school was like, oh God, we've got to do something. You know, he was very much present as a force of a youthful auteur. Yeah. I thought you were doing a bit that you met the explorer Christopher Columbus last night. Perhaps I also met. Maybe they're one in the same. you were doing a bit that you met the explorer christopher columbus last night perhaps i also met maybe they're one in the same yeah i wouldn't doubt it the the spirit was strong okay back to diarrhea though oh thank you um in 2019 around 1.5 million people died from

diarrheal diseases you know what's sad i use most of those people are children i think probably infants it's more than all violent deaths combined diarrhea yeah sad yeah you don't and i used to say our other friend aaron's dad died of diarrhea that's not what and we can make this joke because all three of our dads died young sure but we always claim that tyrell's dad died of diarrhea well did he and i don't even know why that's a bit but it's been going on for a long long time oh wow okay yeah the diarrhea caught up with him you don't want to look at some of the pics i don't mean because of the poop but there are a bunch of kids and stuff that's sad okay i looked up a little bit about psychedelics and identity. We've talked about it before, but I'll just read a little bit from UC News. Like University of California.

Yeah. But not the University of California. It might be because it's a.edu. No, I'm sorry, Cincinnati. This scientist says people often get stuck in the same ruts of behavior, responding the same way to stressors or other triggers. She likens it to a downhill skier who uses the same grooved path down the mountain that they have used a thousand other times. It's not simple, but it's a metaphor for how we talk about psychedelics. Psychedelics have been compared to skiing in fresh snow,

she said. The entrenched grooves of bad habits might not have as much pull on our skis so we can lay down other paths. We're looking for ways to help people shift behaviors and overcome the inertia of their habits that are more in line with their goals and aspirations. Yeah. Okay. We talked about how you watched the commentary of Thief and that was bad for you. Yeah. Yeah. So then I looked up the best DVD commentaries. Oh. how you watched the commentary of Thief, and that was bad for you. Yep, yep. So then I looked up the best DVD commentaries.

Oh. According to IndieWire. Here's the list. Taxi Driver. Oh. Well, I'm going to add one to this list, but continue. I don't want to interrupt it.

Well, I just want to say that on the Miller's Crossing DVD, the Coen Brothers, maybe third movie, Barry Sonnenfeld, as an extra bonus material on that DVD, explains how he shot Miller's Crossing versus how he shot Raising Arizona. Oh. And it is a 30 minute masterclass on cinematography. Like I watched that and I was like, oh my God, I know everything about lenses now. And I know what purpose they serve. And I know how you can use them to give different feels. And it's like, what a bonus.

To me, that was like the gift of all gifts. Cool. The Graduate. Okay. Taxi Driver is Sony. Several, yeah, Sony. The Graduate is Criterion. Criterion Collection. Because.

I love that you're giving the distributor. Well, because they probably have the Graduate regular. I got you. You're afraid the commentary's not on the reduced price bin. Boogie Nights, New Line. Okay. That's the studio. Oh, okay. Well, that isn't it. Paul Thomas Anderson stopped recording commentary tracks after the two he laid down for this, his second feature. And it's a shame because few directors are as infectiously enthusiastic and inspiring when talking about their work. Okay. So that's kind of limited a dish. I want to see that now. I want to watch

it with a commentary. I know. Following Christopher Nolan, Criterion. Wait, Nolan has a movie called Following? Christopher Nolan had no money with which to make his 1999 debut feature. And he used the resources he did have, time, talent, and creative freedom brilliantly, creating a riveting contemporary noir that introduces several of the themes and techniques that would characterize later Nolan films like Memento and Inception. Wow, I thought Memento was his first movie. I missed one. His DVD commentary focuses specifically on how he overcame his limitations by doing things like blocking the action near windows to save on lighting, staging conversations on rooftops to get urban exteriors without permits or sound problems, and rehearsing for six months so that the actors could get in and out of stolen locations quickly with one or two takes.

Budget was $6,000 on that movie. That's the budget of Brothers Justice, five grand. Okay. Citizen Kane, Criterion. The Counselor, Fox. Ridley Scott's best movie, Sorry, Blade Runner. Oh, wow. Also has his best commentary track.

Though this is much more than a typical audio commentary, the narration is interspersed with video featurettes that interrupt the movie at various points to take the viewer deep inside the making of the film. Oh, so it's more like watching a doc about the making of. Pan's Labyrinth. Wow, they did one. That feels post.

Criterion. That feels after. People weren't even buying DVDs when Pan's Labyrinth came out. No, I was. Yeah, that was 2006. Yeah. People were still buying. Oh, my God.

Okay. DVDs. Yeah, I had that on DVD. Wow, Criterion? You should listen to God. Okay. DVDs. Yeah, I had that on DVD. Wow. Criterion? You should listen to that. Not Criterion. Yeah, see?

It wasn't on Criterion yet. Yeah. You should see if it's got the commentary. It doesn't. Only Criterion has it. I don't know if that's the case. Yes, that's the case. Okay.

This is Sim because I've never seen it. And it recently came up as someone's favorite movie. It was random to me. And I hadn't thought about that movie in a really long time. I just know it's Guillermo del Toro, but I don't care. It's in my top 10 probably. Is it? Yeah.

Wow. Okay. Grace of My Heart. Scorpion. Never heard of Grace of My Heart. Neither's a it's one of the best commenters okay um oh it's a musical out of sight soderbergh i've probably watched that commentary that'd be great keno lorber studio classics not to be missed this is asking a commentary enthusiast to choose their favorite steven soderbergh disc is a asking a commentary enthusiast to choose their favorite

Steven Soderbergh disc is a little like asking a parent to choose their favorite child, but it's hard to do better than this articulate and witty track shared with screenwriter Scott Frank on the movie that moves Soderbergh from the margins

to the center of film culture. I would want to listen to that. I watched that movie 30 times. I'm ready to watch it with the commentary on it. Yeah. It'd be fun to listen to that. I watched that movie 30 times. I'm ready to watch it with the commentary on it. Yeah. It'd be fun to listen to because what he was doing that no one had done in 20 plus years is he started using zoom lenses again, which was done in TV to save time. Yeah. So there's all these shots like, you know, Clooney comes out of the bank at the beginning.

He's taking his tie off and then you snap zoom. It's very 70s TV. Yeah. But it works really well and no one had watched that in a long time. And so it was like, oh, cool. He brought this back and now he's made it chic.

Yeah. He, okay, so the Ocean's Eleven commentary, which is my second favorite to Good Will Hunting. There were two commentaries on that. Oh, really? Probably Criterion. And the one is Matt, Brad. Oh, wow.

Spray, spray, spray. And George. Like, it's crazy. Yeah. And then there's another that's, I think, Soderbergh. Doing more academic? Yeah. Maybe Jerry Weintraub?

Oh, that would make sense. Maybe. This shot was beautiful, babe. That's a great documentary, by the way. What is it? The Jerry Weintraub documentary. Oh. Yeah.

Fascinating. Ding, ding, ding. At Craig's, there's a Jerry Weintraub dish sure on the there's also one at um muson franks no close uh i know nate and i've been going to yeah what's it called dan tana's yes he has dishes all over the city yeah he's a he's an icon he was an icon well he is an icon he is an icon but he's passed well it was weird on the menu because there was this jerry weintraub scallop or whatever then there's only one other item on the menu that's off of a person and it's on the dessert menu. And I think it's a current TikTok influencer. Cool. And it was quite the gambit.

Of items? No, to have like Jerry Weintraub. Oh, sure, sure, sure. And this TikTok influencer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What a world. Okay, Love and Basketball, Criterion. Love and Basketball, shout out,

is Alison Kirksey Lombardo's favorite movie of all time allison of anthony and allison seven new line i'm trying to think if i've watched that i had to have watched i'd be surprised if i hadn't watched that but i don't remember anything another movie i've watched 30 plus times and have the DVD still. Wow. I could give that a shot. No, we have to watch this because this disc contains four commentary tracks for the price of one. And each of them is expertly assembled and illuminating.

The commentators dissect the film from a variety of perspectives. Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman. Oh, wow. Oh, my God. Delish. Then screenwriter Andrew Kevin Walker and others. Fincher. Fincher's on all four.

We loved it. Like, let's watch it again. Cue it up. Bring in more people. I'd watch that movie on repeat. Yeah. Criterion has an app now which you can watch all of these. Oh.

With a commentary? There's like a Netflix for Criterion and they've got the commentary on it. Well, get ready for the next one. Smoking the Bandit. No. But Valley Girl. No way. That made the list?

Yes. And it's Shout Factory. Oh, it's the distributor. Okay. Okay, JFK, Warner, Oliver Stone. Menace to Society. Ooh, yeah, that would be fun. The Hughes Brothers.

True Romance. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, this is limited edition. Tarantino doesn't contribute audio commentaries to the movies he directs, but he recorded one for True Romance. Oh, he did? Okay, high and low. This is Kurosawa. Oh, the famous Japanese director?

Yeah. Bram Stoker's Dracula? Oh, is that Scorsese? Oh, Cop famous Japanese director? Yeah. Bram Stoker's Dracula? Oh, is that Scorsese? Oh, Coppola. Sony. Interesting. The piano, not the pianist. Right.

The piano's beautiful. That's Harvey Keitel and Hunt. Helen Hunt. Oh, Jane. I mean. Holly Hunter. Holly Hunter. Jane Campion. She's a huge, she just directed.

The Power of the Dog. Yes. Yes. She just directed that. And Callie worked on that campaign and she got to know Jane. She enjoyed her. Yeah, she did. He said, she said, Paramount.

How long is this list? I guess it's long. Harlan County, USA. Hostel Park 2. The Lone Gunman. They went deep. The Yards. The Verdict.

There we go. Targets. Oh, that's Peter Bogdanovich. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Cool. Well. Cool stuff. Now That's it. Yeah. Cool. Well.

Cool stuff. Now we know what to watch. Got a long list ahead of us. Crime in New York. Crime rate. The overall index crime declined by 5.6% in September 2023 compared to the same period a year ago. in September 2023 compared to the same period a year ago. Individual crime increases were driven mainly by grand larceny auto,

which rose by 19.5%. We were just talking about the subway and crime. Yes. Yeah, so everyone's doing great. Everything's trending up. Wait, hold on. I mean, this feels like a kind of not good list, but I am going to do it. Okay. The most dangerous cities in the U.S.

Oh, great. But you should still go there. Yes. Don't let this get you, you know. Number one is Bessemer, Alabama. Wouldn't have guessed it. You're not going to guess a lot of these. Well, you might.

Bessemer, Alabama. The chance of being a victim is one in 30. That's how it feels high. Yeah. You know 29 people. Yeah. Number two, Monroe, Louisiana. Okay.

Three, Saginaw. Michigan. Yes. Yeah. Saginaw Bayigan yeah yeah saginaw bay uh four memphis tennessee i've heard that i lived there yeah you learned to ride a bike in a garage there yep five is detroit sure i'd be pissed if it wasn't on the list two michigans you're gonna, Rob. It's not in the top 10. Come back, Rob, when you got some real shit. Six is Birmingham, Alabama. Okay, so far we have two Bama Roll Tides and two Michigans. Seven is Pine Bluff, Arkansas.

Eight is Little Rock, Arkansas. Well, gang banging in Little Rock, the very famous HBO doc. We've known about this for years. Nine, Alexandria, Louisiana. We got a couple repeats on here. And then 10 is Cleveland. Sure. Ohio.

I mean, it would not take a professor to see the correlation between opportunity and crime. There's no Silicon Valley on that list. I mean, crimes of the heart. Sure, those abound. Okay, that's it for that. That was a last minute fact. Yeah, it was fun. That's all for we love.

I love top 10 lists of cities, almost anything. Yeah, me too. I find it very interesting. It's fun. I don't love it when half the cities I'm learning the name for the first time, but I also like it. Or it could be glass half full. You get to learn about a new city. Well, that is part of it.

Remember when we just had somebody on yesterday who said something about a town in Wisconsin and it sounded made up? It did. It did. It was like Beloit. I think it was. Was it Beloit? Yeah. Yeah.

And he had several stories that took place in Beloit. Yeah. It was like a really instrumental city in his life. All righty. Well, that's all. That's all she wrote? That's all she wrote for Willem. And that's very literal to say that's all she wrote.

Yeah. That's all you wrote. Let's keep saying that. Murder she wrote. That's all she wrote. I wonder that's all you wrote. Let's keep saying that. Murder she wrote. It's all she wrote. I wonder if I'll ever write a murder. A murder mystery? Yeah.

I'm going to guess not. Me too. Yeah. I love them though. Like I love. In movie form, not in book form, do you? You like a murder mystery in book form? In movie, well, sort of like I loved Gone Girl.

Okay. The book. That makes sense. Loved. That was a phenomenal. And then I loved Gone Girl. Okay. The book. That makes sense. Loved. That was a phenomenal. And then, but what's that? Knives Out. I love Knives Out.

The movie. Yes. Yeah. That's kitschy. That's noir. But it's also murder. It is. You're going to get a murder in those.

What other murder mysteries are there that I should watch? Seven. Love it. Already seen it. Going to watch the commentary.. Gonna watch the commentary. Off to watch the commentary. Yeah. What else? I love Sherlock, the show, a lot. Should I watch that? I loved it. Really? I loved it. Some people don't, which I don't understand them. I'm on to start the Bad Sur surgeon doc, which I hear is incredible.

Oh, I keep seeing it pop up. It's number one on Netflix. Yeah. Yeah, and Lance told me it's great. He's like, clear your schedule. You're gonna start it and not be able to get up. I love that as a precursor. Me too. Nothing's the same now that couples therapies are out. I'm just

living kind of despair. I know. I miss Orna so much. I want to rewatch it. Me too. Maybe I'll watch it with the commentary. Oh my God. Criterion. If Orna did Criterion commentary,

I would die. All righty. All right. Love you. Love you.