Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Yearbook - Chapter 5: Teenage Love & Danger

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

Nothing compares to the butterflies of teenage love in high school. But teenage romance can lead to grave outcomes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

you probably knew at that time what i thought was the most important thing going on in my life was what's going on with me and girls that That was probably what we were talking about 90% of the time in our conversations. And that's honestly probably what consciously I was going through 90% of the time while subconsciously, I'm sure I was confused and mourning and like, what the fuck and not really confronting what just happened. You can't really do a high school show without talking about this. In some ways, this is everything. When the boys and the girls, when we started realizing that we wanted each other, I don't want to intellectualize what was happening there because it was so unintellectual. I remember having a sleepover with some of my friends when we were probably in eighth grade.

And we watched the movie Leprechaun. And there's a guy in a cellar, and the leprechaun can do tricks. And this guy sees what he thinks is a woman with her top half naked. And he reaches out to touch her. And the reveal is what he thought was like a naked boob there is actually some kind of sharp engine fan and it chops his whole shit up

it's this one three second snapshot of nudity and me and my friends we must have rewound that clip 15 times just to see a boob that's the kind of shit that's going on you know all right it was a few things that were going on for me at this point in time. The social pressure notwithstanding, there's this push to be sexually active, talk about your sexual activity, pursue girls. But there also was a feeling of, wow, girls are interested in me. I remember after a basketball game when a girl who lived in my neighborhood, who I always thought was cute, we're all hanging out in one of my teammates' basements. And we didn't even talk to each other the whole night. This is how it goes in high school sometimes. You don't even talk. You just see each other the whole night. I was a little too shy to like spark a conversation. I

guess she was too. At one point in time, the kid's dad whose house we're at, he's like, all right, ladies, it's that time. And she just hangs back for a second and just kissed me. Didn't even say any words. Just kissed me, walked up the stairs and disappeared. There was no Instagram. We didn't have each other's numbers. I just had to wait to see her again. And that was a part of the constant tension that was always crackling. You didn't know when you were going to see your little crush.

That was a Friday night. I had to spend that whole weekend thinking about that she had kissed me, waiting and hoping that when I saw her again, she would still be into that. I mean, you can hear it in my voice. It was such an exciting time. It's kind of all like a really delightful little puzzle that all the kids are playing with each other. Like who fits where?

And in all of that, this is 2004, 2005. I could get up here in front and be like, at that point in time, I knew gender and sexuality were social constructs and this, that, and the third. No, no, no, no, no, no. I was a boy and I was doing a boy impression in all the ways. I was not woke.

I thought that there was one way to be a boy, basically. I thought it was like, you hang with boys, you play sports, you make the joke, you are tough. My sister, Shannon, was a complicating factor in that because she was in earnest my best friend. And she was very keenly, acutely observing my behavior. Alicia was not your girlfriend. She wasn't somebody that you were dating. And you just didn't have really female friends that anybody was aware of before that. And so this really strong platonic friendship is just something that at that time in our lives,

at that time in society or whatever, that was not something that we as a family had the box for. And so it was just hard to square for me even. And now this seems unthinkable because I think that everyone should have as many types of friends as they possibly can. It was hard for me to really put my head around you having that close of woman friend who was not your girlfriend or whatever. But in addition to just not having witnessed it up close. So yeah.

It was sort of discounted because, like you said, it didn't fit into any of those boxes that you just described. And she was a special friend because she did not value, for example, machismo and basketball and what girls think you're cute. She, as I remember, she valued art. She valued books. She was kind of like us, you know, and she had gone to our preschool, which would explain why she was kind of like us. And so

she was a break from all that other stuff that felt like every day was like a ropes course, perform activity, study basketball. There was so much structure that nothing was loose. Nothing was free. Nothing was just easy. So when she was gone, it was like, man, now everything really is work. I've gone back and forth in my head while thinking to myself about this time. Did I know I was in love with Alicia?

Did I know I had a crush? I certainly tried to portray not to, but I mean, I called her on her house phone multiple times every day. Alicia's parents, Lulu and Arturo, they were watching with adult eyes on this whole experience. And they had their own point of view on what was going on with me and Alicia and what they wanted for there to be there. It's weird because when I was a kid, I didn't realize Alicia had so many friends either. I mean... Do you feel you were the only friend? It's weird because when I was a kid, I didn't realize Alicia had so many friends either.

I mean... Do you feel you were the only friend? I didn't think I was the only one, but I tried a lot harder to have a bunch of friends than Alicia. And she got to just have them, it felt like. I always kept insisting, and I should say insisting, I would ask, why don't you date chat? Yeah, that came up. That came up quite a number of times. And what was the answer? The answer was, we are very good friends.

Let's keep it that way. Let's not go into her choice of boyfriend. She said it could get complicated and I want to keep him as a very good friend. She dated a different Chad, I remember at that time. I know. We can stay out of that. Alicia actually dated a different Chad, I remember at that time. I know. We can stay out of that. Alicia actually dated a different guy named Chad. I want to say he was 18 or 19. I think they had been recently dating or maybe they had just fallen out. And she used to tell me about this guy all the time. And he was white Chad. And, you know, I was me. If you ever have seen Ryan Gosling's character

in The Place Beyond the Pines, he was a sweeter, less stoic version of that same guy. There was an element of, you know, I would bet that Dax has known many people like this. Cut off, white t-shirt and tattoos, cigarettes, dusty boots. It was interesting to me that Alicia, she had found herself connecting with a type of guy that was so different from me in a hundred different ways.

But also I thought so different from her, so different from her father. In a way, edgy and dangerous, but still kind of sweet. I think Alicia knew I had a crush and I think she knew how to gently keep people boundaried where she wanted them. So if I had asked her out, she had me so firmly in the friend zone from birth, basically. I think she would have sort of taken care of me in that moment. She would have made it clear that the answer was no. And she would have gracefully guided us into now what that means for our friendship.

She would have done it, I think, in a way that would have kept us close and not made me feel humiliated. Because underneath it all, that's the fear of asking anybody always, am I going to humiliate myself? And I don't think she would have made me feel humiliated because underneath it all, that's the fear of asking anybody always, am I going to humiliate myself? And I don't think she would have made me feel that way. I do want to talk about her friends a little bit because apparently she had so many of them. And so many people think that their kids are special. And I think, of course, there's something special about everybody. I don't mean this facetiously, but do you think that their kids are special. And I think, of course, there's something special about everybody. I don't mean this facetiously, but do you think that some kids are special?

And do you think she was special? Well, Chad, any parent will tell you that their child is special. Any parent or anybody who invests the amount of love and time, et cetera, into anything better think it's special or else you're wasting your time. Alicia had a gift. She was a very good listener and she knew how to relate to people. Alicia knew what to say, what to do to make the person in front of her happy. And recognize and feel special. And seen. And to know how to do that at such a young age,

it's unique or it's exceptional. Not that all kids are not exceptional. This is what I believe. She was meant to be on earth, the 16 years that she was on earth. And she was perhaps a more mature spirit, what they call sometimes an old soul, because she really knew.

Alicia packed a lot of life in 16 years. Just thinking of these high school years, she dated, she was a prolific artist. She was different, but she did say something to me that hurt me. I remember I was in my parents' basement. We were on the phone talking for hours as usual. And I imitated something with Justin on this show, something that he would say all the time, like a euphemism, like a slang word or whatever. It hurt me so bad. She was like, is that your black impression? And I was like,

oof. And I remember in that moment feeling like, what does this mean? The person who I've known since I was zero thinks I have to do a black impression. That's real bad. I don't think she knew that it was such a stab because at that age, she probably didn't have a very sophisticated understanding of race but she knew enough to make a joke like that that really with me at the time i probably wondered why alicia was attracted to the driver i remember seeing him and seeing that bald head no eyebrows baseball cap on a funky like band t-shirt with a button up over it and some gnarly jeans and maybe some converses or some kind of low bottoms before dudes were wearing those. There was this guy, came from a different culture, clearly had a different point of view and a

cigarette hanging out of his mouth. And the girl I liked, liked him. I think as I look at it now, it wasn't because of any specific thing I can put my finger on. Other than that, he was a unique cutout of himself. And I think Alicia, who was an artist, she could see that. I also think that sort of speaks to who Alicia was, because she didn't care about any of that shit. No. Yeah. This is not an apt comparison, but Alicia was the sort of person who talked to the special needs kids when she saw that they were alone at lunch. She didn't like to see people alone, I noticed, from what I saw of her in the cafeteria. For a 15-year-old, how often do you see that? That's a snowflake. And so it made sense that she would be able to overlook any sort of physical abnormalities

or things that were just kind of out of the ordinary that might seem unattractive to other people because that's the kind of heart she had. That's part of the whole irony of the thing. She's in that car with him in part because she's seeing through what he looks like to who he is, which is what we all sort of aspire to. I don't know how you get to have that as a kid, to be able to see people as they actually are. I think she knew because our conversations were so intimate and there had been a through line in our conversations. We talked on our own channel.

When she heard me do a different voice, imitating my friend Justin, and she said that was my black voice, what I think she was really saying was, you're talking like somebody else. But we talk like this because we had our own channel. We had our own AM FM station. She knew I was making a choice at our school

that she wasn't making. I was choosing to try to be the Varsity Blues popular kid. She was just choosing to be herself every day. I was attracted to that. It felt like it gave me permission to be myself, even though I wasn't taking that permission at the time. She knew who she was, and I didn't have a clue. And ironically, permission at the time. She knew who she was and I didn't have a clue. And ironically, I ended up becoming a more authentic version of myself after she was gone. I do wonder if she would have liked me the way she liked those other boys at that time. I didn't mean to, but I became an artist and she always had a thing with the other artists. I think the artists find each other. And then her other best friend, Amanda, she was a dancer. So Alicia and I shared a locker

that year. After Palms, we got home. After we did our homework, we spoke on the phone, possibly two hours every night, just like talking. My mom said, picking out our outfits for the next day of school. And so then it was, I guess, the Thursday she was saying that she was going on a first date with and they were going to go to the movies and for ice cream at the Olney Shopping Center. And I spoke to her before she went on the date, like that late afternoon. She was really excited, you know, nervous. And then I went to bed that night thinking nothing of it. And I remember so vividly that my dad came, I think it was 1 or 2 a.m. into my room.

And he's like, Amanda, Alicia's parents are on the phone. They want to know if you've heard from her where she is. She's still not home yet. And she had a curfew of midnight. So, of course, I was freaking out. And, you know, we didn't have, we weren't really, were we? No, we were texting them we were we had our little like nokia phones okay yeah but I guess once I went to bed I wasn't

like texting her anything so I was like no I haven't heard from her since before she went on the date and then I laid in bed for hours like did she go back to his place even though that wasn't really her so it was shocking but I was trying not to think of the worst while thinking of the worst. And I eventually fell back asleep. And then I woke up and I immediately heard my parents' footsteps come running to the bottom of the steps. And honestly, as soon as I heard them like running to the steps, I knew it wasn't good. And so in that moment, they just looked at me and cried and I cried. I can't even imagine as a parent telling your child that your best friend passed away, you know? And then honestly, going back to school, I remember being very hard. Again, we shared a locker. So the first time I opened up

my locker and her palms were in there and all of her books were in there and pictures of us were in there. And then another random tidbit is that next semester was in my math class and our teacher changed our seating assignments and put me right behind him. And I just remember thinking, like, how am I supposed to concentrate in this math class when now all I can think about is Alicia. And unfortunately, the person who was driving the car and got into a car accident killed my best friend. I'm staring into the back of his head trying to focus on math. I have to wonder, as he sat in classes every day and walked around the school and got back in a car at some point to go drive and had to wait in the line driving out of the parking lot where all the teen drivers had their music blasting and he's trying to get home or go to 7-Eleven, get a Slim Jim, whatever. I have to imagine that he felt like we were all looking at him. He must have felt Amanda's eyes in the back of his head

in that classroom. Or he must have detached himself so much from us as a monolithic society of kids that he instead must have felt completely alone and in the abyss in every room that he was in. And I don't know which one of those is more comfortable. I don't want to just conjecture about how this guy made it through high school after this incident. I have to talk to him. I wonder if he apologized to his parents for whatever they had to go through after this. Did he ever feel in danger at our school? I mean, it was a murder at our school. Did he ever feel threatened?

Shit, and just what was that night like? What movie did they see? What music did they listen to? What kind of ice cream did they get? Did he drive fast or slow? Did Alicia have a point of view on his driving? Years later, Alicia's dad took me on a ride around in his sports car and he drives fast. I wonder if Alicia liked to drive fast.

I need to know all that. Amanda, you know, we didn't really know each other. I mean, like we saw each other. I didn't have a lot of girlfriends. We didn't really know each other until after Alicia died. I think it was like we were looking for someone who still had Alicia's spirit on them. And so we started to have our own thing. We started to date.

I don't know, like high school date. This is terrible because I don't remember how we had our first interaction. because I don't remember how we had our first interaction. And I'm not sure if it was from Alicia's parents saying this was Chad, you know, like introducing me to you. I can't quite remember, which is really sad. I can't either. I know. I don't know why.

Yeah. But I will say that I think that's what brought us so close is that I was like, here is someone who is going through something that I'm going through so I could relate to you. And I just felt kind of comforted by hanging out with you. So did I. Yeah, I felt like we had our own kind of like secret code a little bit. I don't know why. I do feel like we were texting back. We were definitely texting back then.

Yeah. Right? I feel like, no, we were texting back we were definitely texting back then yeah right we were definitely no we were we were I think I feel like I have vivid memories like being in my car texting yeah because we weren't driving all of our yeah not while driving all of our conversations were not via phone that would be impossible right and I also remember having this feeling in a way we had a very unique high school relationship because it was born of someone's death I do feel like it was a weird thing it wasn't like oh Chad's my boyfriend we grew close because of a tragic thing that happened to us and we had this special connection that kind of went up and down

and that sometimes we were hanging out more than others and then other times we were doing our own thing and yeah I have to say this because this can't get lost in the telling of the story of this year. I had a girlfriend throughout most of high school and there were some ons and offs and it was a meaningful relationship. But, you know, our relationship was separate from a lot of this.

She lived in a different part of our county. She went to a different school. She was kind of a part of this. She lived in a different part of our county. She went to a different school. She was kind of a part of a different world. In this world, Amanda and I connected because we were both missing Alicia. And I think we both saw and knew, even when we didn't have to say it, we're both a little somber.

We're both a little damp right now. We started to become those kids who were a little bit lived in. And that's when those kids get to see each other. That's how it happens full circle. Now I'm starting to understand, oh, this is how Alicia and the driver saw each other. Because their eyes were a little low. We couldn't pretend to believe in the make-believe anymore.

It was over. Alicia's death ended that for us. And now we had to be real. Again, I don't want to be disingenuous. I was taught in the most formative part of my community, which was very Black. Obviously, we're a Black family, Black church. The elders did not mince words. How do I say this most plainly? I wasn't supposed to date white girls. That was not something I ever had to read between the lines on. That information was given in a way that was straightforward. Also, that information was given in a way that was contextualized. It wasn't just like, oh, don't date white girls. We don't like them. It wasn't that.

It was, well, there's a history of violence against boys and men like you who get entangled with white women. But I was a teenager with a car. And I am the type of person who will adventure into something that is forbidden. I have to explore it. Before I was having sex, I would go to 7-Eleven and buy condoms and try to learn how to use them

and then go bury them in my parents' yard because I thought they would find them in the trash can. And it wasn't enough for somebody to tell me that it was dangerous to mess with white girls. I was a teenager. I was just attracted to girls of all kinds. But what was simple for me in feeling, which was being attracted to a lot of different girls,

was much more complex in society and much more complex in our community. I think my sister can say it perhaps more eloquently. What did you as a sister and as a young woman at that point, when you see your younger brother, a boy, start to like really get into that world, what do you notice about him change? What worries or fears do you have?

I should also mention, I started dating white girls around that time and becoming interested in them when the basketball team was good, because that's when they started noticing me, I guess. And we're a black family. I think in some regards, we're a traditional black family, or at least our parents can be. And I know that was always a concern. Is Chad going to, one, get himself in trouble messing around with white girls?

Or two, is he going to end up with one, married to one? It started really even before high school. You had a girlfriend in middle school too. And I remember you told me that you weren't even really interested in girls at the point when she and other ones started sort of clawing at you. You were not ready for that, but they all wanted to pair up and they wanted to have a boyfriend. And so therefore you became someone's boyfriend.

And so I came to see that that was going to be a big thing for you. I think at some point, obviously by the middle of high school, you were sincerely interested and you definitely also really valued their attention and wanted that validation and just wanted to be around them

because you liked girls. But initially, at least, I think it was a construct that you were just being pulled into. So obviously, as you know, it's completely different for girls entering that same situation. Society treats you very differently if you're getting a lot of male attention. And perhaps I guess it's worth saying also that if you're the exact equivalent of you, but you're a girl at that age, you're not going to get the same attention. So if we shared all those traits, if we were nerdy and bookish and kind of earnest or whatever, those things worked for you. They obviously did not have the same impact for me, by which I mean, I just have zero dating life of any sort, not until college did I have any kind of dating life. So you were going through all of this stuff

and I felt like you were really participating in all of it in a way that was just really out of my reach. And I started to see how maleness and how being a black guy was different from being a black girl, even in an environment that was predominantly white, which for both of us, it still was for a lot of the time. And like you said, you had white girlfriends and white girlfriends, I guess, even though there was also that tension and that friction of our parents and maybe even you to some extent, wondering what that was going to mean for you. Was it going to lead to trouble for you? There was a danger, a very present danger, both danger of getting in trouble with your family. And I was aware by at latest 15 years old, if you show up places with a white girl, the spotlight is on you and the spotlight is not

always great. Yeah. I mean, I'm talking about this at the remove of 20 years or whatever now, now I look back and I see how that was dangerous for you, how there was all this freight beneath it. And I know that at the time you and some of your friends even got pulled over by cops because you had white girls in the car. No doubt. Or vice versa, you know, because they had black guys in the car. But I guess setting aside all of the context of danger that we both understand now, you were able to participate in things that were not in my reach at that point. Danger is all around a teenager. For us, it was danger if you get pulled over by the police.

There's danger in the basements. There's danger in the bedrooms. Everything's dangerous because you don't know how to manage yourself because you're not formed. But that danger is also the magic. That's the crackle of magic that when we're nostalgic about high school, the danger is a part of it, that whiff of risk in everything. And after that fight, after that fatal fight in front of our school, the adults were scrambling. They were desperate. They didn't know what to do to try to create some type of safety bubble around us. Laleh remembers very vividly how life changed at Blake after that fatal fight

between the two girls in front of our school. I do remember a little bit of what happened in the aftermath. Well, first of all, it didn't involve people from our school. No, it didn't. And I think that's what was kind of crazy about the whole thing. I felt like we were in a safe place. I felt like it was something that we didn't have to worry about in our specific community. I just felt like we were one of the safer schools in our consortium. It definitely felt like a more dangerous experience afterwards because it was almost like the catalyst. If this can happen now, then what's next? What is this opening

up to? Not to say I didn't experience witnessing my fair share of fights in the Blake Hallways and girls' hair being pulled out and things like that. But to have a lot of people witness a murder and something so violent and unnecessary, it just felt like not our community. It's the only murder that's ever happened at an MCPS high school. So that's accurate. I mean, still, there hasn't been another one since then, according to Mrs. Goodman, and I trust her. No, I never felt fear of death at school I certainly felt the tension of a fight brewing and stuff like that all the time even afterward I was never like scared of getting stabbed at school it was weird

it was like a little surreal surreal yeah it felt like our school was on tv it was like a murder happened here that's crazy what a crazy story I do remember more security at our school. We weren't allowed to do open lunch anymore. Yeah, that's right. Things were taken away from us. And I'm not saying those were the wrong things to do, but I do genuinely feel like it was the interest in keeping us safe. Yeah.

I do know you mentioned racial implications during that incident that I, at the time, wasn't aware of. Yeah, I do. I'll just give it a recent anecdote that opens the box on that. When Mrs. Goodman was describing the girl who was stabbed, she said, I guess they ripped her shirt open for the paramedics to do their thing. And she had a tattoo on her chest that said something like boss bitch or something like that. And I understand that that detail adds color to the story, but what's the relevance? But I know what the relevance is.

And I know with some certainty that had that been a white kid that was stabbed and killed, the fallout from it would have been more robust, more coverage, more fear, more privileges revoked, I would imagine, more people implicated. That's my educated guess based on just history, I guess. One thing about the parties and going in and out of the really American white kids world, and then back into our world was there was just sort of a safety net that felt to be there. And I always was curious about whether or not that safety net included me. And at home, I was honestly taught that it did not. So I was very careful about it. That's another reason why I didn't feel totally comfortable at their houses.

And I do remember thinking, and it wasn't like a fear reaction, but it was just, wow, a kid can be stabbed here at school. Can I be stabbed here at school? But I wasn't like a fear reaction, but it was just, wow, a kid can be stabbed here at school. Can I be stabbed here at school? But I wasn't really scared of it. It was just, I don't know. It just kind of was like almost like how Alicia's thing. It was just like, oh, man, this can happen. Teenage dating is treacherous.

There was a game of feelings and desire and egos always at play. And, you know, I played. I was in there. I was very much in there. My friend Eli, he and I were close, very much a part of the same small circle of friends. And he dated somebody who I had been dating and who I still had feelings for.

And I mean, I didn't like that he dated her. And I behaved, I behaved dishonorably. So you had dated this girl when I think you guys were younger. You'd known this girl for some time. And then I was really attracted to her. I was into her in 10th grade. I think I asked her to be my date to a homecoming. She was a little standoffish on whether she wanted to date me. And then sort of once I had finally convinced her that we should take a shot, then that made her more interesting to you. And you decided you might be back interested in her again. And she'd always harbored, you know, I'm speaking for her here, but I think you maybe broke

her heart when you guys broke up and she'd sort of always hope that you guys may have a lingering thing. So once you were an option again, i was quickly back off the table so obviously it felt like we were fighting over the same trophy yeah that all just feels and sounds like things to get dinged for for sure you know we were 16 year old boys i don't remember the conversations really in fact i think one of our conversations was like over AOL instant messenger as I recall it I know I know but it was the mode of the day but what stayed with me was a boy told me directly why did you do this we're friends you hurt my feelings that stays with me now that's still some really hard shit to say to a person you did this thing to me we are friends you. You love me. I love you. Why did you hurt my feelings? Why did you undercut me? I remember that even then it was kind of eye-opening that

boys are even allowed to say that to each other. As you can hear, I have learned how to express myself. I've learned how to connect feeling to thought to word, and I have made a career out of that. So when it became time to reach out to the driver, I realized something, which was that I didn't know what I felt, which is why it took me literally an entire day to write and rewrite and rewrite and rewrite the note to the driver. Because I just, I wanted us to have any chance to get him to show up for a conversation about that day, about that night. I would love to be able to see a snapshot from his eyes of Alicia that one last time before it was over. So I could have that.

I just want to be able to know what he knows. So what I ultimately wrote him is this. This is Chad Sanders from Blake class of 06. Please forgive the abruptness of this message. I'm working on a podcast series called Yearbook, exploring my junior year of high school at Blake, 04 to 05, and the ways that it impacted my life and our community. As part of the podcast, I have been interviewing people

who were a part of that year, including Mrs. Goodman, many of our classmates, my parents, and other members of the Blake community. A major part of that year, of course, was that we lost our beloved friend, Alicia. I would love to include your voice

and point of view on Alicia, that one terrible night and some of the events that followed the accident, as well as your own recovery emotional and physical i know this must be an incredibly sensitive subject matter for you and as much as i'd love for you to participate i have no expectations if you're open to a 60 minute recorded conversation with me that will be included in excerpt in the project please let me know and i'll connect you to our producer. But there is absolutely no

pressure and regardless, I will be sure to cover the subject matter sensitively, appropriately, and in a way that maintains your privacy and represents you positively, which is how I have always seen you. All the best, Chad. I thought the only way I can reach out to this person is gently, like an olive branch, like someone who is pushing lightly an inflatable raft across a shallow pool to someone and asking them to just lower their body onto it and come over to my side. But that's not real. I'm being fake. I'm trying to force closure. I'm trying to force closure. After Alicia died, our community came together and we did walks and vigils and candles and wrote on stuff. We tried so hard. We did the stuff we see in movies and on TV about how people find closure.

People went to church. People went to synagogue. Prayers, holding hands, hugs, tears. It didn't work. If it did, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be talking about this. So in this next episode, I am going to go and try to find that somebody was able to put this to bed somehow, because I don't think I have yet found that person. Thank you.