Artist Friendly with Joel Madden - Daryl Palumbo

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

On this week's episode of Artist Friendly, Joel Madden sits down with Daryl Palumbo. Formed in 1993 by a then-teenage Palumbo and guitarist Justin Beck, Glassjaw became one of post-hardcore's most influential acts, known as much for their unpredictable, genre-defying sound as for the loyal following of musicians who cite them as an inspiration. In 2003, Palumbo launched a second project, Head Automatica, pairing his love of Britpop and hip-hop with producer Dan "The Automator" Nakamura for a sound entirely different from Glassjaw's — their debut, Decadence, charted on the Billboard 200 the following year. More than three decades after he and Beck first bonded over matching Anthrax and Bad Brains T-shirts at summer camp, Palumbo is still fronting both bands, with new Head Automatica material in the works. In conversation with Joel, Daryl opens up about the freedom he's always chased in his music, how fatherhood became the most grounding and fulfilling thing he's ever experienced, and the years of self-doubt and restlessness that shaped both his art and his sense of self along the way. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How long have you and Justin been making music together? 92, 93. Wow. Him and I happen to love the idea of a hook somehow and the idea of rhythm, you know? We both love those things. And then individually, I really love a hook and he really loves a good rhythm. And, you know, a glass show may sound far more sophisticated and dense than it is. It's fun.

It's experimental. Push the envelope. Sound nuts. Make it really hit the red on a recording. Like what will sound fucking through the roof dynamically, you know? Like what's the dichotomy between these parts live on a record? How crazy would that be? If it gets tiny, then it gets real big.

And if you sometimes have to play a bunch of shitty bad notes to get it to that, you make it smash. You get it to that. That's cool to hear you talk about it that way. How you doing? Good. How are you doing? Good.

Yeah. It's good to see you. It's been a long time. I know. Real long time. Yeah. Yeah. So much I'm sure is happening in your life.

Jesus Christ. What would you say the most significant thing that's happened to you in the past five years? That seems like a good amount of time. That's a lot. That you would say an old friend should know about. The last five years. Well, I had a child nine years ago. And that's pretty much like that.

You have a nine-year-old. Yeah. Yeah. How's that? That's the biggest thing. How are you enjoying it? Wonderful. Yeah.

Yeah. More than anything, I've enjoyed it more than anything I've ever gotten to do. Is it like you thought it would be? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And like everyone says it is when you're like, when you have kids and then you find out what that means, even though you understand what it means.

Oh, yeah. Experiencing it is a different thing. Absolutely. Completely different. It's pretty good. It's wonderful. You have children, yeah? I have two kids.

Oh, yeah. They're not kids anymore. How old? They're adults. old. My daughter, Kate, is 18. She just graduated high school. Gosh. My son, Sparrow, is 16. 16. And he's still got two years left to school, to his dismay. He's like, ready to fucking go.

I can't even imagine having two children. Yeah. And still rock him. Yeah, it's funny, man. I was just talking to my brother Josh, like, on the way in here. I was listening to your music. It's really good. It's always been good, but I revisited it. It's been a while. It was really nice listening to it. And then I called my brother Josh as I have like a process when I'm on the way in here that like is whatever. It's like I was talking to my brother Josh.

And we were talking about the kids and he was like, I'm just, I just kind of show up, keep up. Move to the right. Okay, I moved to the right. Moves to the left. Okay, I moved to the left. But it feels like like it's funny, man. Like, kids will definitely tell you what the fuck is up. Oh, yeah, definitely.

Every minute, my life is run by my child. Yeah, I dig it. It's humbling. And I'm old. It makes me realize that I'm not, I'm not the shit. It's good. Yeah, oh, it's really good. It's humbling.

It's beautiful. Yeah, it's like the sobering, grounding reality. When we do what we do for a living or whatever we call this, it can be a bit like fantasy sometimes. It's total detachment from society in all capacities. Yeah, totally. Yeah. That's like the most grounding experience.

You come off the road for five minutes, have a child that's like, I'm an earthling. Very much. You're reminded of you. Yeah. How tiny you are. Yeah. You feel dwarfed by nature and you're humbled and calm down for a second.

Like, holy shit. Is it easy for you to settle back into... What would I call it? Civilian life? Yeah, I'm not good at anything about that. Yeah. You enjoy that? Oh, yeah. So do I. I am a civilian. Yeah. Very much. I'm a total proudly. Yeah. Routine. Definitely. Calmness. Calenit anonymity. Calm. Routine. School. Taking a child to school.

It's really nice. Oh, it's so nice. The mornings are really nice. That's my favorite. When they're young. Oh my God, that's our time. Yeah. Oh, that's my favorite. I'll cry right now thinking about it. This is last day of school yesterday. Yeah, same. Yeah. My son's last day of school.

That's great. Did you always prefer that? Or was there? I mean, I feel like when you're young, it's just, you don't really, you're like, there's no way that couldn't be more fun, just whiling out, escaping. And then you escape and you realize you're like hiding in that lifestyle. And you're like, okay, six years of past, seven years of past. And you're like, shit, 30.

I mean, it's easy to like, I don't know. You like it. You start thinking about it after a while, you're like, do I like this? I don't even know. Am I just doing this? Is this getting me? By playing every market on the earth repeatedly? And like, what is this doing?

Like, I'm just hemorrhaging money, not living at home. Right? Learning how to write checks and a rhythm, a daily rhythm in my adult life. Yeah. You know, like, I don't know. Then at a certain point, I was like, this is not. I'm fried. I don't need to do this.

If I'm not, if it's not guaranteed to work, I'm not doing it. I feel the same way. I feel like, and so this brings me. me to you. You have to make peace with the idea that, okay, there's going to be groups of people. So I would say you are one of those special artists that if I said like your favorite bands, favorite band. Right? Yeah, that type of thing. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. It's true. And not just that, but you get to enjoy that while also having what I would say is like you have really, really hardcore fans who I would say shaped a bunch of aspects of their taste, their ideas, their relationship with music

around and from your, from your art. So not just Glass Shaw. Yeah, yeah. Right? And Head Automatica. That's, yeah. Favorite Van. That's funny.

Yeah. So that can be a really cool thing. It can be really, it can feel really great. but I also imagine it can be a bit of a ball and chain in some ways. Yeah, stuff is, yeah. Sometimes, you know, sometimes you like bear the cross of doing something weird. And then you're like, well, we'll never succeed. It's not supposed to succeed.

And it succeeds just enough that it may affect certain people who are, make music. Something's just to appeal to people who are like a creative type, more than it might appeal to this mass audience. And I think maybe we just did that. So there's a bit of, you know. But like, before we get to now, because I was, when I, when I thought about, okay, I want to talk to Daryl, do I start now or do I go back and here we are. So it doesn't really matter, I guess now.

Did you ever feel like constricted by the art you made? Did you know you were doing that? Or were you just vomiting out the art or throwing the paint on the wall and going, I like this, okay? Because it was super uneducated, I think. And as far as me and Justin, we were a little, it was just like hardcore. Like, oh man, hardcore is starting to get psychedelic. We want to do that.

As soon as it's hardcore got psychedelic, we just wanted to do it. Psychedelic, hardcore. Yeah, like, die 116 and quicksand. And soon as shit became like New York City got a little zany. But you guys took it further. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I think so. Yeah, we were show, you know, the sound was a little showier.

Yeah, yeah. Those guys were still playing songs. They felt like you were punching holes in all of it. Yeah, that shit. Yeah, because we like heavier shit. A lot of those guys were just a few years older. and maybe they're the heaviest stuff that they were fucking with was like, you know, Jesus lizard and Am Rep type stuff.

And that's brutality. You know, that's as scary as it gets. But at the same time, Justin and I, we also were from a time when, like, wildly expressive and intense extreme music exists. You know, that didn't exist in the 80s the same way. Things like crazy blasting bands and this metal revolution that hit hardcore in the 90s. we had that kind of as a part of our universe too we just wanted to make it bad shit and we wouldn't have thought that any of that would succeed i just like new wave and stuff like costello it's like my favorite stuff i just wanted to sing on it too i don't know why i just sang a bunch on it and it was just like

maybe these are catchy but it sounds like crazy music we're played by idiots so i don't know to me that's what i heard i heard like hardcore kids who weren't afraid i think you're very similar to like a damon albarn and i love him so much well that's interesting because I think you are so similar to him. He's one of my biggest heroes. He's a hero. He's not constricted. No.

So he's making Brit pop, but you can hear him playing. You can hear him like pulling in shit just if he likes it. And his songwriting is very much, ironically to name him, he's very much fueled from a place that I am always fueled from a place of laddish,

British pop music, right? Like sort of things that are sort of referential to the British invasion, right? I think at the end of the day, that's everything I do is always informed by this sort of McCartney and sort of laddish thing. Like every, the anti-hero, I keep pointing it to Elvis. It's like Elvis, it was Costello, like this sort of, yeah, a lad, the anti-hero.

Like I'm more, I always embody that. I embody the concept of like a song that can also, it may be fully fucking off the walls and intense, but there's an idea of a song in it that always stays there. And then Damon Albarn is always inspired directly by bands that are my favorite band. So it's also like, I can't explain it, but I, I have a few, there's a few singers and songwriters that I would say I would put Elvis Costello in the same group as you, as Damon Albarn. I have a friend, his name's Matt Coma.

He's in a band called Winneco Bowling League. He's from New York as well. And his songwriting is very much like, it's like squeeze. That's my faith. It's like, all time. Really? Ever of all time. Okay, so.

There's nothing I enjoy more than that ever. I hear it all over the place. and it's these little, it's these little choices that are interesting, I'm saying, you know, you understand that. You hear that, that you're very keen to that because you do that. You hear those sort of bends. There's similar bends.

He's very Paul McCartney, John Lennon-y, sort of, but like progressed and a bunch of these. And it's really funny. It's like these little choices that you hear in the songs that you go. Funny, you'd even say that. That's crazy. And there's a few guys that I go, because you can't try to do it, it just is in you.

You just dig it. If you can't, you've soaked it up. It's like, that's all I've listened to my whole life. I just love it. And that's what I hear. And it's so funny because I hear it in my friend Matt's music. And I always, I love his records. And that's what I love about the records.

It's the little Easterer eggs, the surprises. I know that. I know. I was like, the other day we played a band open the other day on this run. And they were sound checking. I was in the restroom. And I heard I go, dude, that guy is nail. Graham Parker, Elvis Costello right now,

whatever this tune is, just one dude, and he was playing tracks, and he opened the show, and I was like, this dude nailed it. Like, it nailed it. Immediately you hear that thing.

I was like, am I here? That's it. Joe Jackson, Graham Parker, like, people, walls in the bathroom. I'm like,

I hear him. That's it. This is my people. I hear my people playing right now. It's funny because I felt like, I always wondered, so I didn't even know what I was going to talk to you

about today other than I want to talk about, I want to talk about the new stuff. I want to talk about where it's going because I also think there's a hole and a place for it now. That's great. That's good to know. In a different place. I do.

But I also think that it's interesting because when I think about you, I'm like, I feel like this artist got dropped in the body of a kid on the East Coast in a hardcore, in a time when hardcore music and all of that was raising kids there. And I felt like this artist was born into this, like, hardcore world. You love where it goes, I wasn't made for this time. I mean, I really do feel a lot of times. That's what I think. I'm like, maybe I wasn't. Like, I really do relate to so many things. Like, I really connected my whole life with anthrax, the bad brains.

So many intense things. It really swept me into a place of fantastical. Nothing existed but single pointed focus. So single point of focus, Nation of Ulysses, crazy fall on the floor chain wallet, bands from San Diego in the early 90s. Like, these things blew me over to where. I was such a fan. But I do often think as I've gotten older.

Like I was, man, if I could have been 18 in 1977, I think I really would have been. That would have been interesting. I feel like that might have been, you know, if that's the way it works. But it makes for a really, a really interesting body of work that you should be really proud of. Oh, thanks.

I hope you are. I mean, yeah, I'm honored to ever make music that anybody bought. I don't know. I don't deserve anything. Like, it's good here. Everybody's good, right? Everybody's good. And the more time goes by, I always said it.

And everybody was always like, you're modest. Don't be modest, you're full of shit. Or don't like take a comp. Like, I get it. Like, I do what I do. But everybody gets good. And then as the internet has happened, like, when do we see people that are like, do you ever see anybody that you're like, yeah, he's not as good as Steve Vott?

Like, it's just fucking 15 year olds that are just like through osmosis or soaking in prodigal. The channels from a higher power of like insane next level talent. I feel like everybody's good. But, you know, I don't know. I feel like I'm really lucky. I'm really lucky to be where I am. Good is different than special. Yeah, no, no, you're right.

And I think you're special. Oh, that's kind. And I think that it's probably an odd place to sit. I'm not going to take compliments either. But in some way, shape, or form, you hold it because you wouldn't still create if you didn't need to. And a special person. Yeah, like you feel proficient, right?

Like you feel like, oh, I've done this so goddamn long. That's right. I can walk into a room, make something out of nothing. And we still get a little. like joy out of it. Yeah. When you're done, you're like, last night there was moments

where I was like, we sounded great. Like we sounded exceptional. That was wonderful. What was last night? Sacramento, gold. Oh, you guys are on tour?

Yeah, string, I had automatic issues. And then at the end, I have two last shows like warp tour or health has? Okay. One of the other.

Yeah, one of them. You're familiar. Same ground. You've played them a few times. One or the other. One of the other. One of the other. Not the same, but similar.

Similar. Similar. They'll be great. Jason, correct. Yeah. And those shows are great right now. Bad shit. Yeah, they're great.

Like, it's like a... It's like a resurgence, right? I do feel like that's happening a bit. Yeah. I would say beyond a resurgence. I'd say it's... Oh, that's cool. From my perspective, what's made these shows for us fun since we've come back...

Have you done a bunch of those types of? We've done a bunch of rock festivals. Must be huge. We did Warp Tour together. Biggest of our life. Oh, oh my God. Biggest of our life. That's amazing.

Yeah. Positive. Quite positive. Yeah. Oh, man. And it's great. Generational. There's older people there.

They're in their, you know, 35 to 45. With the 13 year old kids. With their kids. And it's a really like energetic. It's a cool energy. Different in a way. Because when we were all doing it, it was new. Yeah.

It was kind of a new energy. This is different. It's in a great way. It's really big. That's like a big rock show. Oh, that's cool. Cool. I mean, like you said, you get to play at this point. It's different than being on the Warp Tour. You get to make the rules. I imagine at this point. And play around with the lights

and the fire and the video and all that shit. Would you say, though, the shows are better? In a lot of ways, yeah, definitely. Wouldn't you say? There's so much love. Yeah. That's a feeling that we're also. Are you guys are probably better? Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, we didn't play any notes in the beginning. You know, so many years you just don't play. And that's just like a given, but you're executing the event. Like the matrix of this event is occurring. And people are soaking it in and going batch it and moshing. But like, we don't play a bunch of notes, and I'm sure I didn't sing a lot of the notes, ever.

I wasn't a good singer back then. I've learned a lot, and I think I'm a much better live singer. You probably hear yourself, like the conditions. I use any ears now. Yeah, in glass, most of the times I'll have in ears, and I'll be like, I have never heard a single thing. Never heard myself. 30 years.

This is wild. Yeah. And I have bad hearing because of it. That's why I have to use zineers. Oh, my God. I can't hear half the shit people say me. You never wore your plugs all these years, right? Who?

You? You never wore your plugs on stage? No. It really does make you feel like it's like, I'm not here. I'm singing in a, I'm singing in a airplane hangar a mile away. Yeah. Yeah, it sucks. Singers, it's like they're our own, we're our own thing.

Yeah. Like you always feel like, I'm always like, if I don't have a monitor, I can feel the the vibration in my head and I know that the notes that fucking dead. I haven't heard myself my whole life. I've never heard myself. I just started using in ears on this last two years. Just started. Just started.

You just started. Using in ears. At this level you're at, you were playing, you never heard yourself ever. Not one fucking night. Never. You're playing arenas not hearing yourself. That's like the best thing I've ever heard. That's me too.

I feel like I never knew anyone that was just straight up like, no, I don't give a fuck. No. Because I feel like there's, I literally have this time. It's sound check wars every day. Yeah. If I'm going to have to get involved, you know, fuck it, I'll be all right. I didn't even. I was always like that.

Everyone else is sound checking and I'm like, What is it fucking matter? I'm not doing this. I'll be standing it for three more hours talking with you too. Exactly. Yeah, and everyone's playing a different fucking freeper. What I want doesn't matter.

You're like, Billy's over there and he's like, I need more of this, more of that. And I'm like, everybody's like, boom, the kick.

Boom. Boom. Boom. And I'm like, can I have a little more? I'm like, for anybody who ever would be hearing this and doesn't know that,

that's not. I know what that is. Yeah, I play arena is one. No one. No one ever. I've never heard myself. They don't know what it's like.

I'd never heard myself. I got so used to feeling if I was in tune. And then I got on eight years. The two years, this last two years I got on in here's took me probably a year to you. Take this fucking thing back. And now I will say,

I've learned how to use my voice live better. Of course. You don't even have to. It's like, sometimes I could sing quieter. Why did I even push? Why did I push? I lost my voice every night.

I never had to. And I never had to. Because you didn't know you could hear yourself like it was a record. You're like, I'm tracking a record. You can sing closer to the mic. You can go far away from the mic. The compression is on. I'm a fucking mate.

I'm Tina Turner. It's incredible. And like, so now I can do all the falsetto live. You can do anything. I can do anything live now. And the feedback we've gotten too on these shows is that we sound better than we ever have. And we do because I can hear myself. You actually do.

Yeah, of course. I know that feeling too. I guess I could have just done that the whole time. I could have told me that, crazy. Yeah, wireless mic. I couldn't even adapt to a wireless mic. I mean, I'm like primitive. The first time I said,

modern technology, and they're like, well, this has been around like the whole time. They're like, welcome to 1987. Graham fucking do. What a great body of work you got. How do you feel about the new music? I love a bunch of head automatic of songs we have happening. Glass always has me and Justin always have a bunch of ideas. Always going

around. Always a bunch of reworks going on of things when we're playing. A lot of, a lot of new had automatic of stuff. Yeah, we're playing two of them trying to get ready. Another third one to start playing. See how it is? Really happy. Yeah. Very happy. I mean, so many years past, I'm so lucky to even be able to do something with a name of a project from years ago that, like, to feel blessed enough to be playing and feel progress. a little as far as what I do. And I'm playing with guys that are just monsters. Does it satisfy you?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, realistically, I don't know. I don't know what would satisfy me in life. What would, yeah, like, what's the- I don't even know what the goal was. I don't know what the goal was looking back in the beginning.

What did I, what was the goal? Play music. I guess I didn't think that far enough in the future and I still, I just do it. Yeah. You know, hey, this comes up. I'm going to do it. Glash always comes up. Me and Justin are like, does it make sense?

Do you guys make plans or is it really kind of just spontaneous? No, I mean, I do think, like, yeah, I do get called upon. And then once we're called upon sort of dots connect themselves. That makes it easier. I don't know. Yeah, I do think a lot of, you seem like your schedule is always very healthy. And you always have your project and something is occurring. Then it's this.

Then you have the show. That's incredible. Your infrastructure is very, it's so, it's amazing. where I feel that I do look at maybe someone like me and I find that like the moment arises say yes then that's where my life is going to point for five minutes. And then we just kind of fill in the gaps and Justin and I make these get that done

that sort of points in other direction. I don't know. I think it was always a little haphazard. I'm a unique case. I just something like what I just like in. Yeah. There's a lot of artistic insuredness in that, which I'm sure you relate to.

You know, you're your own boss, right? Yeah, I have a, I have, I have horrible ADHD. Can't imagine. You never stop. You must. And I was just thinking about this today. I didn't take my ADHD meds.

And I don't always, because I don't really like it all the time. Sometimes I like to be ADHD. Get it going. Pop. Yeah. Sometimes it's overwhelming. Yeah.

I go through times where I'm like, you know what? I don't want to be, I want to be a little irritated right now. I want to be going. I need to be going. This isn't the day from. Sometimes stuff comes from that.

Like good ideas come from that. Oh, yeah. When I need to be assertive, I do find that. I don't like being too docile and like, hey, we don't get there. Now, sometimes I know I have to be, I have to be my least, my least attractive self, perhaps. I think likely part of my ability to pour myself into and focus on and have success with music was ADHD because when you pointed at things and you get hooked in and obsess. It's unstoppable.

It acts like the medication, like it soothes it a little bit because it, there's enough going on, there's enough problems to solve all at once that it can occupy you. Think about that a lot, that exact state. I mean, I feel like I often go, if I was not so unhinged as a younger man, I don't think I would have gotten done all the things. How were you unhinged? I just think all over the place, emotionally, always emotional young person, definitely, and definitely ADHD just like oh would you say like emotional like did you you had like anxiety or depression or

things like that yeah definitely like I'd get lots of anxiety or quite worrisome and sad or angry I would love yeah really frustrated when I would love very hard right and be very hurt you'd go deep yeah and you get really hurt yeah like more more deep than being unrealistic or healthy at a young age yeah just like me too though yeah people like I find that That's a type of guy. My heart was easily broken when I was not. Yeah, lots of that type of stuff. And also maybe doing that to people when I wouldn't feel it as much as I should feel it.

And then it would be done to me. And I'd be, oh, heartbroken. The world ended, you know. I didn't like feeling like that. What I found for me, I'm not saying for you, because I do think that some of us are wired. Yeah. Emotionally wired.

I am wired. And that's why you probably are such a good. poet in that way with your music, because that's probably where you expressed that and felt probably some relief when you did it. But I found with me, that part of me was just self-esteem. I needed deeply to be loved because I didn't love myself. And then I, and then, and then I kind of worked on it in my 30s,

and I started getting more level. And I would say I got to a place where I still feel deeply, but I feel I feel like I leveled myself out where I'm okay if someone doesn't see me a little more okay with it yeah yeah yeah yeah

but age does that that only came with age from some work does that some growth does that little growth little age a little bit of a heart you have a kid you get you know the kid feels the cup up yeah you know and then you gotta lose a little

you also have to feel that that you know yeah yeah you have to feel like you've you've done something to feel like so empty and unloved, you'll never make anyone else happy. You can't, I can't be happy? I can I make you happy? Yeah, yeah.

And then I'm just like scattered, loving, feeling up, feeling down, up and down. I feel like evening it all out would have was a healthier thing for me at a certain point. Weed helps. Weed helps. Some people. It does.

Let's say, maybe it helped me a little bit. Mushrooms could help. Absolutely. There's lots of things that can help. There's a lot of medicinal. Done correctly. Absolutely. that things can help 100%. Definitely I found parenting help me. It's the hugeest drug of all.

It's a beautiful thing of all. Yeah. It's the first time I, you feel that you're, you almost have this notion of like, I could not possibly do good. I could also not possibly do good without being watched. Like, are you seeing me do good? Well, then I can't even this. I don't mean it. It's not genuine. Even if it's, if it's anything you do good in life, if it's being watched, like that's for not. It's for, it's performative. Parenting is like the one time that nothing is performative. No, it can't be.

It is the realist. Survival. It's just, this me and my, my man. Just like, I'm just with him and experiencing this shit with him. And it's like the one most genuinely fulfilling non.

There's nothing outside of that. And it is magic. It is. And I don't think I could even love me until I could realize that I'm at least worth, I'm here. worth this right i'm doing this for him this is my life's work right here definitely like that is actually the for that's how i feel i feel like yeah like god we have these like i don't even want to say like public lives but it's more like yeah and how big did that feel until that moment with it you're just like

i giggled it at all yeah i was like it's felt so warfed it's the mere aunt in the afterbirth of this event like that all that time all the fights all the craziness all the losing money making money being afraid of what to do with the money. Did this record do good? Did that do good? All of the stress. Every bit of it. And then you have a kid

dwarfed by nature in such a way that I was like, you have humbled me. I am nothing. You are everything. God bless you. I would say like, even like if you just took that idea

and anyone listening, because plenty of people either don't have kids, don't want to have kids, fine. If you could find anything you love more than yourself. Yeah, that's the only thing I have advantage to.

You will find peace. Yeah, I mean, there has to be a parallel for people who are like, that doesn't interest me. I don't find that that's what I'm here for. I don't want to nurture. I don't want to protect and I don't want that tied to me and I don't feel that I'm capable. There's got to be something that people at one point are like,

that's it. I think I see it. I'm here for that. I see it with some people who dedicate their lives to like being of service to like, of service. being of service to other people or they go. And I met some doctors who spent years in Africa. With doctors of other borders.

Or doctors, like people who have dedicated their lives to helping other people. Legitimately. Saving people's lives. And I think that to me is like a similar, like when you have a kid, it feels like not only do they love you back, which I think could be a similar experience when you're helping people saving their lives, but also like you're responsible for their. Yeah, you're their lifeline. That's it.

Yeah. That's, I've never also had that. That makes all this just kind of, like. It's the accomplishment also of that. I'm an only child and I never really, I never had the money really growing up. Like I never owned anything. Nothing was ever mine.

And the only thing I ever did at my life was bands, you know, for the most part, Glashope is. Where did you grow up? Belmore, Long Island. Long Island. Yeah. All I ever do was Glass Show. And I shared that, you know,

and me and Justin share, So nothing was ever, nothing is ever like, if you don't nail it, it's dead, it's eyes, it's over. There's all on you, it rests on you. I was never a prodigy, I never played sports, and nothing rested on me in my life. Never one hour of my life did anything hinge upon me, except delivering the goods in my 50% of glass, Joe, I guess at that time. Yeah.

But then your child arrives and you're like, this is, wow, like it is 100%. This is tethered, its existence is tethered to my, uh, my sensibilities, right? Yeah. At every turn. And it just totally, there's nothing that will change you like that. That is just you, you snap into sort of a new character knowing that responsibility. Or perhaps you raised 10 brothers and sisters of your own because of how your life was. And that's just one more of those experiences, but it hits you a little different.

But for me, it was, I've never had the weight and the honor at the same time of life, you know. How is it like touring? Are you away? Yeah. Yeah, but we don't go away long. amounts of time. Justin and I really hate that. We do shorter trips at Automatica. It will do we'll do, we don't, I try to not do terribly long runs. I kind of just can't, you know. I have my son and I do, I have a lot of just like things are always happening. And like I said,

you get to an age, it's like I'm not trying to play every market. No, yeah. Yeah, no, no, six people at a record store. You know, like how many times we did those things in it. Yeah, yeah, of course. It doesn't do anything. It only breaks the morale. Yeah. And the morale of the team is like, we've seen that. Yeah. Seems it'll just be like, it's impossible. Yeah, it's a young man's game doing that. Yeah, it's a young man's game.

When you meet little guys and they're like, yeah, tomorrow we're playing. And the next day we're like, oh, my God. And then we're playing a phone booth in Kansas. Get it done now. Get it done now. Get it in now. Because eventually there's going to be a woman or a child that ain't going to let you do that. That's right.

That's right. Life will not permit you to do that. And I don't think your temperament will let you to do it. Yeah. up the steps. I was going to a club in Philly. I feel like we were carrying bait, SVTs, up steps,

and it would be like, at a mountain, 20-hour drive, and then tomorrow you playing seven feet of snow and the Eagles, Eagles Club for the, Eagles ballroom. Milwaukee. It's like, I'll sleep when I'm 30.

Yeah. And I never even had to drive. I don't even drive. What was your favorite, uh, Glass Traw record? I don't even know. They have little bits throughout,

throughout time I like. I always like the moments that were really heavy but not terribly stony heavy there's always a lot of stonery stony medley breakdowny heavy things i always enjoyed the very avant-garde screaming moments the most i don't know i like uh we had a five song five song ep before our first real record back in the hardcore show days and that was my favorite that was your favorite yeah i mean i like that style at the time yeah sounded like a little kid little kid quicksand little kid shift yeah that was like I liked that.

That was a good time. It's before we knew, just making the music and not really thinking. There's a lot of freedom in the, and also not being looked at by professionals. We were in the secret. We were in our underground layer. There's no above ground sort of players that are going to judge us. We can do anything. Let's go bad shit.

And over time, you're like, all right, that sounds a little crazy. Let's not get too crazy. Let's be realistic on the record. There's a certain magic moment of like, fearless, go for it. I don't even know what I've heard it on a record. I don't even know how to put it into words. Let's try to figure it out. There's an unbridled, youthful adventurousness to that.

Then the more you learn, you kind of, a little self-conscious with your writing. Try not to be, but it happens a little bit. I still think you guys always, always, it always felt like you pushed. Yeah, well, we, we, I feel, I think Justin and I specifically have to, because I think that's a lot of what the band is. It's not, we're not like two Berkeley type dudes per se that are doing that. So like we always want to execute this sort of our sound,

but like somehow push it in like a zany way. That's part of it. It has to be a little silly. It's got to be something silly too. If it's so screaming and absurd, it's got to be a bit of campy, whimsy to this insanity too, right? Yeah. I would say, I wouldn't call it silly.

I wouldn't say wacky. maybe avant-garde. Yeah, some moments, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, some moments have to go until the other world to kind of really back into this little less civilian.

Yeah, it's got to go far out to take you back down to something. Yeah. You know, it's always so much, it's so easy to deliver mid-tempo, mosh, mania. I feel like it's been 30 years on earth of,

we can all do that, right? So what can you do to really highlight that? But you always delivered some, of the like to me what we always brought it back home was like a good chorus yeah you had a lot of like it'll make me crazy if someone doesn't have songwriting sensibility and you and you guys always had really good songwriting sensibility it always came just to position it always landed somewhere you know and I always like yeah I always enjoyed that that's a thing before songiness song a song is important yeah even you know Justin and I specifically because that's obviously

more far out of the things that I do. You can play so far out and go so far out and be so noisy. I do find that the best of even that, the sort of some, even if it's sort of psychosomatic, like it's in the background, like what, it's an element of song,

right? Like, there is something that reoccurs, or there's something cyclical to it. There's some sort of patterny, something that, even if it's subconsciously, like that that's a song.

And even our heaviest silly moments that are the ones that mean about, don't laugh and be like, so ignorantly, like, I'm screaming like a fucking cat. Like, it just sounds so over the top. But you do, we laugh because we will always tie it to some semblance of there is song, right? And there is rhythm. I do.

Him and I happen to love two things that we always love. It's like the idea of a hook somehow and the idea of rhythm, you know? We both love those things. And then individually, I really love a hook and he really loves a good rhythm. And then so we're, have that kind of tucked in. You can get as avant-garde as you want, I guess, at the end. But it's even cooler when you can bookend all these pieces with theatrical ape shit. And, you know, it's all silly.

It's silly and fun. And, you know, a glass show may sound far more sophisticated and dense than it is. It's fun. It's experimental. Push the envelope. Sound nuts. Make it really hit the red on a recording. Like what will sound fucking through the roof dynamically, you know?

know like what's the dichotomy between these parts live on a record how crazy would that be if it gets tiny then it gets real big and if you sometimes have to play a bunch of shitty bad notes to get it to that yeah make it smash you get it to that that's cool to hear you talk about it that way yeah it's all you know it's a lot of theater in it too I think me and him always kind of hurt that like we were young we always be like d-dum-dum-dum like we would hum out a song we would have like I feel like there were times where we'd have a song done hummed out. Yeah.

And we'd be like, that's like, we'll just, that's done. Like, we got that one that we know about. Like, it always was this, like, hum out this thing churning. Like, it goes that.

Then there's the second part, cool. It's always going to be a bridge. It'll probably go to a fucking chorus out. We can make it happen on the spot. Also, like, you know, somebody as long as you and I have known each other. It's like we can do the horror thing,

like through osmosis, you know? Yeah. But it's always fun. And I'm just sort of having it be one identity all these years, we've gotten a, little better maybe you kind of can just get sillier with it let's make this even crazy let's make this even quieter how long have you and justin been um making music together

92 93 wow yeah like 30 yeah 30 about 30 more than 30 more than 30 34 years it was our first summer that we were camp counselors and not campers oh wow the camp and my grandma my nanny was the chef at the camp Wow. What camp was that? Merrick Woods Country Day Camp. Where's that? At Long Island, New York. That's amazing. It was our first. We were working. I think he was a CIT, a counselor in training. And I don't even remember what the fuck I was doing. I think I was giving back basketballs after little kids shot them back to a counselor. And you met there? And we met like first day. I had an anthrax shirt on and he had a bad brain shirt on. And we walked right up to each other. I'm pretty sure he had.

you're like cool shirt immediately it was like yeah nice fucking shirt he was like that's my fucking favorite band he was like fucking we fucking playing music he's like definitely what do you play I was like guitar he's like guitar I'm like fuck yeah and I was literally and then what happened you guys and then I did band in eighth grade and my mom and dad were like

you can't be in a band and you can't take a guitar to Justin's Sundays anymore and I was like fuck that and so I'd go to the house and he was like there's no way you're not gonna do it now and I was like what am I going to do he's like you're singing and I was like what the fuck and then uh it has your parents said you can't take the guitar yeah they didn't know i was in

the band until pike college till uh yeah long time well we were doing lots of things when i didn't tell them i was a kid yeah you yeah you can't fucking tell me i didn't do good yeah i can't take my guitar to justin's i'll show you ninth grade that was in long island oh yeah i made high school you guys going to shows and stuff yeah oh my god he would do they would shows we were little i remember one show my mom, my dad was like, you better get home for dinner. I'm gonna fucking kill you in. I remember, I was like, I can't go to the show. He was like, what do you mean?

We're playing in like two hours. You tell them you're not going on for dinner. I was like, I'm going home for dinner, but my fucking dad's gonna kill me. He was like, this is fucking crazy. Like, time years ago. Did you miss the show? Yeah, definitely.

Oh my God. I was not gonna fucking have dinner? What was your dad of done? Killed me. He would have been like, what were you doing? And I'd have been like playing hockey up the block. I was lying all the time. I literally think I failed math or science.

And my dad was like, yeah, well, you're never going to fucking play the band again with that, Justin. And I was like, ah, this was the summer we were going to make it happen. Yeah. When did Glassjaw? When was that born? I mean, it was always that. It was just me and him. And then eventually, we just made the name Glass Joe after a year of knowing each other.

What a great name. So stupid. He has the paper, I think. It was a list I wrote on loose leaf in eighth grade, like a list of like 30 names. I would love to see that. The dude, we laugh. You gotta. We laugh.

Because the one next to Glass, Joy, Beck is always like, told you we should use Swift kick. Yeah, Swift kick. Yeah, that was Glassjaw's baby brother band. Swift kick. About it's like, the opening man, Swift Kick. He's like, I told you shitty, Swift Kick. He's going to see this and fucking die. He's going to see me trying not to laugh saying Swift Kick.

My dad was a boxer for a little bit. So in eighth grade, you only know so many odd fun words. Yeah. So we made the list. I was like, you choose. I don't know. Let's pick one. Man,

a horrible name. And at what point did your dad go? Yeah, okay. It was like 10 years later and it's like, what the fuck is it called? And I'm like, it's glass shit,

and he was like, oh, that's a nice tribute. He was like, oh, was he proud of you? I mean, eventually when I was putting out records and it was like, hey,

we buy you a car. Yeah. Then it was like, I always knew you have in you. Yeah, yeah. You did it. Yeah. Here's a car,

dad. Yeah, yeah, you know what? That's a good feeling. on right there. We always knew you have it. Yeah. That's very New York. It's so New York, dude. Just thinking back, I'm cracking off, laughing at all this shit. I don't think about

it all. Um, no. It's good. It's good to think about it. It's beautiful. I love thinking about foreign times with Justin. Me and him have laughed many fucking times. You strike me as you were in your creativity anyways. You were free. Yeah. It felt free. It never felt

beholden. Yeah. That's when I hear a glass jar record. When I hear how to Head Automatica. I feel free. I feel, I tend to go to head automata more. The older we get, if I understand. I understand. I just like it. It really like, it scratches an itch. It's still, no matter what, like, from the outside, I'm like, if that's your version of pop, that to me is like really great. And like, I'm a song guy. So I hear the Costello in it. I hear the squeeze in it. I hear the stuff I always heard in it that I like. So I like that stuff too.

It feels nice. And it feels good. It feels nice. It's not a challenge. It's not like reading a book. Glashore's like when you're trying to like, you're breaking apart like, your mind is like going through things. So you have to think. You know, I think there's a lot to be said in melody.

I like positivity. I like melody. I like humming. I like those things. It soothes my OCD, ADHD. Actually, I'd say Glassjaw really does like scratch the ADHD. But I don't know. There's something about.

that is really like comforting in that music. But what I hear in all of it is, is freedom. And someone who's allowed themselves to be free and express the depth of their. When you're punk, we got lucky. We get lucky because I feel like a lot of expectations aren't on punk. Like it's kind of like, well, he's a punk guy. They do what they kind of do their own, they do their own sort of thing. You get a lot of leeway with that.

If you're like a bar band, you play showcases and you're like, this is these guys at the fucking goo Goo Goo Goo Dolls, right? some Googled all shit, you know, you're not, you're expected to be that. You know, you don't get to be nuts, maybe. I don't know. Do you have like an expectation or like an idea of what you hope for where this goes? I mean, I see that you do something that's so substantial and so real. And it's this is like, like I used the word before and that's probably not like infrastructure.

Like there is this is a- Infrastructure is a thing. We spent years building infrastructure. That's important. I see it. Like I see this is it, like I, my existence is always a little bit more abstract. Maybe it's because I was always tied very, you know, intimately to being, you know, maybe 50% of something I always did or the whole thing.

But I was a singer in it to the publicly. And maybe that always just kind of scattered me where my place was and how to, you know, to represent myself if there was some sort of very real infrastructure. Like this is, I mean, this is amazing. But I always found that I'm just kind of, I just float. and it kind of like things just happen and then the dots get connected for a season, you know, a long season.

Maybe that'll be like a five-year run. Maybe it'd be like two years of, I'm in head automatic land, I'm in Glashol Land, it just does it. I don't know, I never was good to see in the future and I just kind of ride it. That's not great. That's maybe nearing 50 years old.

I don't think that's maybe the best thing, but I know, here's what it is. I don't know if it's bad. Yeah, I don't know if it's bad, maybe not, but there's a bit of unsureness, but I mean, you've had, you've had colossal success and to see that you maybe can

see a forward with what you do within a bigger, whether it's a schedule or your plans. Like, that's really admirable and I was always kind of more, you know, by the seat of my pants and working phases as it comes. And that was always it. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know why that is. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Sometimes I think there's sitting with you and getting some real time with you, I can I can connect that back and go, the records make even more sense to me in like a really great way, which makes me like them more. You know what I mean?

Because I get a sense of the guy. And then I listen to the record. I'll go home today and I will listen to a record and I will understand it more because I got to sit with you and even beyond words. This is why I love doing this show. This is the most at long. This is like the longest I've ever talked to somebody probably in my life. And I've also, this is the longest I've ever been filmed in my life. I'm honored.

And I just want to, this is how nice and casual. So you couldn't be getting it anymore, but me in the road than that. That's what I'm saying is that's the, but that's the personality of this show. And then so when I go back to the music, I understand it more. But what I'm saying is like a Michael Stipeer, I can name a bunch of other people, your favorite band's favorite band. I don't throw that away. I mean that as a compliment.

No, and I hear that I'm honored. I'm honored because everybody I ever enjoyed that was my hero is that. And I'm well aware of that. So it ever have been that said when we were younger, it's like, well, usually you have to be really the smart guys that are a little advanced to be doing that. And it also means you may not succeed as much, but you're like these outside spirit animals that are kind of like a little ahead of the game. I guess I got it.

But I was like, man, we're young to already be that type of band. But I am honored. I am honored that anybody in any capacity, whether it's your favorite band's favorite band or a fucking. 10 year old, whatever it is. I am so honored to even. And you, and you do, you do sit in the intersection of both. You are the fans band and the band's band. And I think that's a, a unique place. But I also think that you're also, you're young enough to be a creative, creating and old enough to be an elder statesman and someone that could, that could, that's like the nicest thing you could say.

The last thing, head automatica working on releasing a new EP sometime soon? Yeah, I would love to, yeah. We have a lot of stuff in the works. How far away is it from being done? I mean, it could be done awfully soon. There's a lot of tunes that are pretty ready to go. We're playing a bunch, playing two right now. Pretty much a third one is kind of ready to be played.

We have a bunch, definitely a bunch fully tracked and ready with me. I'm excited to that on them. Oh, yeah, I am too. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds great. A lot of it sounds really great. High energy. Good. Very fun. Some of it's pretty pop-pop-tacular. A lot of it is far out, a little more aggressive and fancy.

I can't wait. I love Head Automatica. I don't think it's anything too strange. Yeah, you might like you. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. I am honored. And you were so nice to talk to. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to this episode of Artists Friendly.

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