Ask Haviv Anything - 117: The Palestinian insider who thinks Hamas is losing, with Samer Sinijlawi

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

To support our work, please consider joining our Patreon community (https://www.patreon.com/c/AskHavivAnything), Substack (https://havivgur.substack.com/), or Buy Me a Coffee (https://buymeacoffee.com/havivrettiggur).And be sure to check us out on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/haviv.rettig.gur/) and TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@haviv.rettig.gur).--Longtime Fatah activist Samer Sinijlawi spent five years in prison during the First Intifada and then rose up the Fatah ranks. He eventually came to lead Palestinian outreach to Israelis. Sinijlawi was one of the rare Palestinian activists to explicitly condemn the October 7 massacre. He even visited Israeli victims. In the wake of the Gaza war, he now calls for a new and deep dialogue with Israelis — and is convinced Palestinian society can move on from the regimes of Hamas and Mahmoud Abbas. For example, in recent local elections -- including in Gaza -- opposition and technocratic lists that Sinijlawi helped advance sidelined both radical Islamist forces and Abbas's faction within Fatah. Is a new Palestinian political reality taking shape in the wake of the Gaza war?--This episode was sponsored by an individual who asked to remain anonymous, but asked us to share this message: Beit Issie Shapiro is Israel’s leading innovator in the field of disabilities, developing lifechanging services and solutions for children and adults with disabilities, including injured soldiers, as well as their families. Each year, they impact over half a million people in Israel and around the world through direct services, sharing knowledge, and training professionals. For more than 45 years, they’ve been creating solutions where none existed, opening doors for individuals and helping build a more inclusive society for all. You can learn more at https://beitissie.org.il/eng.--If you like what we do here, please consider joining our Patreon community at https://www.patreon.com/c/AskHavivAnything or our Substack at https://havivgur.substack.com/. You can also Buy Me a Coffee at https://buymeacoffee.com/havivrettiggur. It helps us keep the lights on. Patreon and Substack are also the platforms where you can ask the questions that guide the topics we cover on the podcast, join our great discussions where listeners share news and valuable resources, and take part in our monthly livestreams where Haviv answers your questions live.If you would like to sponsor an episode, please email us at [e-mail]⁠.Musical intro by Adam Ben Amitai.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to a new episode of Ask Haviv Anything. This is going to be a very interesting one. We have Samil Sinjali here. A Palestinian political activist, chairman of the Jerusalem Development Fund. He has a BA in Business Administration from Birzait, a master's in conflict resolution from the Hebrew University. And he's a man who sat in prison for five years during the first intifada. And after his release was elected, head of the Fatah Youth, long-time Fatah activist. head of international and Israeli relations on the Fatah's Supreme Committee. We're going to get into some of the really interesting things that Samir has to say about this particular moment.

His op-eds have been published in the New York Times, Newsweek LaFiguero, Toronto Star, The Atlantic, and in Israeli papers in Hebrew, like Israelayom. Before we get into it, I want to tell you this episode was sponsored by an individual who asked to remain anonymous, but asked me to share this message. Issy Shapiro is Israel's leading innovator in the field of disabilities, developing life-changing services and solutions for children and adults with disabilities, including injured soldiers and their families. Each year, they impact over half a million people in Israel and around the world through direct services, sharing knowledge, training professionals. For more than 45 years,

they've been creating solutions where none existed, opening doors for individuals and helping build a more inclusive society for all. You can learn more at baitisi.org.com. That's b-e-s-s-s-s-s-I-E dot-org. And if you add a slash-E-N-G at the end, you'll get the English website. We're going to put that link in the show notes. Thank you to the sponsor.

It is an absolutely marvelous cause. Beatizzi Shapiro is well known among Israelis. I also would like everyone to join our Patreon and subscribe to our substanti. if you like what we do here. If you're interested in asking the questions that guide the topics that we talk about on this podcast, you can do that

at the Patreon and at the Substack. We're real thriving communities have actually gotten underway. We share information. We share resources. We ask questions. We challenge each other. And once a month on each forum,

there's a monthly live stream where I answer your questions live. Join us at patreon.com slash ask chaviv-anything or chavivgur. Substack.com. those links will also be in the show notes. Samil, how are you? Fine. Thanks, for hosting me. Thanks for coming on. Let's start with your story. Lay that out for

us, the first intifada story, your rise through the ranks of Fantach, and then we'll get into this moment that you have a lot to say about. Well, I had a very typical normal childhood. was born as a Palestinian Muslim in the old city, went to a Christian school, lived a lot of diversity and tolerance in my childhood because I mean I was very happy to see my day starts with a Christian prayer in the school and then ends with a Muslim prayer

with my grandfather in Aksa Mosque. People talking different languages, having different names. It meant that, you know, I felt this is my identity. Yet the first intifada was able to get into the surface a story that has not been very obvious, which is there is a conflict. In the area, there is a conflict in the city, and automatically it invades you from inside. I think it has invaded my generation from both sides. It gave us a new identity, the identity of this conflict.

So I started throwing stones. I went to jail five years. I lost my classmate in one of the incidents where we throw stones at an Israeli bus. He was shot and killed. It was a few months altogether, but it was a very dramatic change because the whole environment was changing.

All of a sudden, we, the young generation, the kids were the ones who were acting as sovereigns. We decide when it's strike, when the shops close, when there is education day or not, we decide which street to close. So we felt a lot of power in our hands. And we were, in a way, by our instant, trying to serve a course that maybe we did not still think about all of its details. but then the jail is another experience where you know I started learning Hebrew I started talking to the guards there

and it helped me a lot when I went out under my title in the Fatah youth to be determined that I want to meet those in my generation on the other side and established contacts with the labor youth then the Likud youth in 96 and then I

continued to be the guy who leads this kind of dialogue within the framework of Fathéh, I became the international coordinator the coordinator for International Israeli Fahe for the Fattah Supreme

Committee. At the time this committee was headed by it's the highest committee in Fattah was headed by Marwan in the West Pan Marwan Barwati. And I spent all these years into diving deeper and deeper into trying to explore the other side, to learn the other side and to communicate with the other side.

It is obvious that it will be very difficult to understand any conflict, in particular, in particular this conflict, if you are not able to see it in depth from the eyes of the other side. This is a must condition. And you cannot understand that conflict from the eyes of the other side if you read reports. Media or academic or research papers or books. You need to have this face-to-face engagement. You need to have this person experience of talking to a person in a closed room in an open environment. in a conference, in an interview, in a media.

These kinds of contents, there is nothing more important to Palestinians and Israelis than having a platform where they, a safe environment where they can meet and start talking and start discussing and start understanding. And it works every time there is such a meeting. I meet an average of 300 Israelis a week. I meet on average of 400, 500 Palestinians away, especially in the last period that I was involved in the local elections,

supporting and sponsoring some lists. You can see that despite there is a very ugly image on the surface where we are looking at each other's. Most of the Israelis are seeing the Palestinian. from the surface. And on the surface, they will find the 7th of October. They will find image that

frightens them. Alastinians always also judge the Israelis from the surface, and it is also an ugly image. There is all the wrongdoings there, there is all the heart feelings there, there is the

hatred, there is, it's not convenient. But when you have the possibility to dive a little bit, start understanding the other side, you can easily come to a conclusion that at a certain depth, we can find a reservoir of mutual humanity, common human. Nobody can deny the Palestinians their humanity, nobody can deny the Israelis their humanity. It is just we are not able to discover that part of the other side. And when we are able to discover that part and connect at that level of depth,

this kind of common humanity will rescue us. That's why I am confident, as a Palestinian, that we can bring this conflict to an end. It is doable. It's not illusion. It's not fantasy. not believing it is the fantasy. But it took me 38 years

of a lot of meetings and in-depth exploration that created that confidence and that optimism, which I don't call it optimism. I call it realism.

Let me dive right into it. It astonishes me that there's so little conversation between Israelis and Palestinians, so little learning about each other between Israelis and Palestinians, when you just, you walk on,

you talk to Israelis, and it causes this real splash through the Israeli conversation because there's a Palestinian talking. And by the way, in very good Hebrew. So there's not enough of it. It is so shocking to all of us when there is any kind of that conversation.

I want to get into starting with Gaza because you mentioned that you were involved with some lists that ran in local elections. That includes in Dir al-Balach in Gaza. You said on Israeli television on January 27, the Palestinian people is being born anew in these very days. What did you mean? What is the new birth the Palestinian people is experiencing? Yes.

Let me first fall. some few words on the issue of this kind of interaction, local. Sometimes when I bring this discussion local among my fellow Palestinians, the first reaction would be that Israelis don't want to listen. Well, here, I think listening might not be the obligation of the receiver.

It's more the responsibility of those who talk. You cannot talk a language with the Israelis that does not resonate into their ears. Because lecturing the Israelis about international law and human rights is something that does not help anybody. So picking up the right language, understanding more the conflict and then addressing the issues in a very responsible way

where you simply don't lecture. You assume responsibility, you admit mistakes at your own side, and then when you want to deliver a message, you need to set an example. This is the best way you can create a listening attitude at the other side. Now, we Palestinians, we do. possess a very important advantage. Let me say weapon. Let me say power.

That nobody else from the world has. It's the power of convincing the Israelis. We are the only ones that can touch the hearts and the minds of the Israelis and convince them that there is a need and a request

for peace on the Palestinians. and that we understand that this peace which is for us between brackets freedom is based on providing them security this the solution for all our problems

are two words. Security and peace so I want to give it to them and order to be able to receive it from them I need to give security to them in order to be able to receive freedom from them. This is as simple as it is. And yes, it is amazing. I was also always

happy, very happy to see that it works every time. You said there were waves, yes, there are waves, splashes, a lot of debate that opens inside the Israeli community whenever a good message comes from the Palestinian side.

And you can imagine when this kind of language will become the former Palestinian family. Somebody that has an agency on behalf of the Palestinians to speak this language with the Israel. It will create our own Sadat moment with the Israelis. It will shift the Israelis 180 degrees in hours. And that has happened in the late 70s when Sadat visited the Knesset. The mistrust and the hatred between Israelis and Egyptians was maybe higher than it is now between Israelis and Pakistan. But then it shifted, 180 degrees. Suddenly Saddam became the hero, and suddenly everybody opened the doors and a right-wing government led by Begael brought the peace.

So we need to fund and to work and to create our own Sadat moment. Gaza. I don't want to stop a sentence that begins with Gaza. I want to get into Gaza, but the Israeli lesson from Gaza and the Israeli lesson from listening to Hamas, which we listen to Hamas more than we listen to any other Palestinian group, Hamas speaks to us. And what it has to say to us is, this is eternal war until one side is dead and gone. And of course, God's on our side, so it's not going to be us. is there you know what

let's get into Gaza and tackle this on different sides as we walk through the issues because everything you're saying sounds miraculous and redemptive

but isn't Hamas Palestinian politics right now well yes it is of course part of Palestinian politics a question if it is the mainstream or it is

a radical on the side I think Hamas could control something between 20 to 25% of the Palestinian society, but it is not the mainstream. Maybe there is a level of confusion on the Palestinian side that does not allow a current of a moderate current to raise up and stand up and introduce it. self in a way that reflects better the Palestinian people. And I think this is in common between us and the Israelis.

The radicals on both sides, they are minority, but they still have a very loud voice. Or the other side, they can give the impression that they are dominating, which is not true. I don't agree that the hilltop youths in Israel represents the whole Israel. There are a minority, but they are very noisy. And in a way or another, they have got advantage of a system that their representatives, their patrols,

became able to facilitate some kind of support from certain part of the state that it looks to the Palestinian as if this is the state of Israel, this is the people of Israel, which is not. The conflict now, I mean, is not Israeli-Palestin. The conflict now is moderates on both sides against radicals on both sides. And moderation is responsibility.

It doesn't matter here, left or right. It is responsibility. Because there are lots of people on the right political side of the map who are very responsible and I consider them moderate. Moderate is taking responsibility.

of everybody. So we need to be careful in judging the Palestinians on things that are not really reflecting what they are. Hamas today, if it goes to elections, if it is allowed to go to elections, I believe that I'm total responsible on my worst because I have assessed this truly and carefully and deeply it will be something between 20 to 22% of the Palestinian society.

Now, less than 10% in Gaza, around 30% in the Westpac, a total of maybe 22% the max. The majority of the Palestinians are fed up from the type of regime in Gaza that was led by Hamas, and the type of regime, the West Bank that is read by the current present. Abbas, he's not also, he's not, you know, most of the Israelis fell in the trap that it's either Abbas or Hamas. It's not, it's neither of them. It's not Abbas, it's not Hamas. Because also Palestinians are fed up from the corruption that was institutionalized over them by Abbas. And they

are desperate to find the third. A more moderate, more energetic leadership, leadership. that can hold responsibility and can open a new era of better dynamics of relation with the Israelis. Currently, we are very much proud that there is a lot of solidarity around the world. But this kind of solidarity that we are receiving now from wherever it starts in any streets of any capital all over the world, is more of a political theater. It does not change the reality. The only way that we can change the reality that we are facing the difficulties

is by trying to create partnership with the Israeli society, convincing 51% of the Israeli society that a political horizon is a win-win situation and they have a partner for this on the presidency. We are Abib in the pro-Hamas it's obvious.

Today, Hamas has allowed the conference of Fattah. Fattah is holding its Congress today in four different places. In the headquarters

of the president in Nomala in the embassy of the PLO in Cairo, in a conference hall in Lebanon, And in Al-Azhar University in Gaza, Hamas has allowed it. Hamas has provided its police to secure the parameters of the conference. If anybody have thought that this could happen four years ago,

it could have been just illusion and dream. So in a way or another, Hamad is signaling that they want to give up their power in Gaza. They want to transfer the regime to somebody else. Anybody that can claim it could be NGG, the National Committee for Administration of Gaza that is formed and now is temporary based in Cairo. Or it could be the PA, they don't care. in the local elections, independent or semi-independent or Fattah affiliated or Fattah opposition affiliated, least won that elections.

In Deer-Lal-Lah, it was on the 25th of April, less than one week. In a official ceremony, Amas transferred all the local power in Derr-Balach, which was your net Hamas regime. It's the old city in Gaza that kept its shape because there was no ground operations from the Israeli army during the world in Deribaba. So it hosts around 800,000 people there. It's the original 150,000 inhabitants plus already deployed, around 700,000 redeployed Palestinians from north of Gaza that are living in tents in the Rabila. Hamas wants to end its legitimate Gaza because it's becoming a burden. They are not able to function. They are not able to pay salaries.

I'm sorry. They are in debt. Wait, walk us through this slowly and carefully, because to most of the world, it looks as though that's not true. In other words, there's the 20-point plan, there's all the money that everybody wants to dump on Gaza. There's the rebuilding that they're planning to start. Hamas controls half of Gaza.

look it over immediately, won't pull back, and we're hearing from the Israelis a new willingness to go to war. And so what do you mean? Hamas wants to, in Deer al-Balach, it handed over the reins after the local elections. Maybe that's covered, but maybe there's too many data points to ignore at this point. What do you mean by Hamas wants to? Why would it want to give up power, and what would that look like? Can you give me a reason why Engag, the National Committee for Black?

administration of the that is part of President Trump plan, is not entering does until now? Why does Israel block its entrance? Why does Israel block the entrance? Because Israel says, well, Israel is the prime minister of Israel. Prime Minister of Israel, he insists that they cannot enter before the disarmament of Hamel. Right.

And this is a slogan. And the Trump administration has backed up. position. Well, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if the Trump administration have backed this opposition. I'm not sure if the Trump administration publicly they have said nothing. Okay? publicly they have said nothing. In my opinion, Engag should enter those. And Engag should receive all the authorities that Hamas are often. It's not secret. what they are offering. They are offering, according to a report by the New York Times on the 20th of Eritre,

they are offering all the civil authority, including the police, the internal security and its eye, and the power to implement to reinforce law, which means they are telling us, bring these guys, let them be the sovereign, and then let them force the disarm. If they find a Hamas fighter with a gun, let them arrest him. This is any kind of disarm. All over the world in history. It is always a process, it is never an event. And I think Prime Minister of Israel knows it very well.

it's an election year he does not want to have this kind of progress it serves him and it serves his coalition and it serves his political lifeline to continue war is in his best interest i think lots of israelis will agree with me so here we need to be careful we need to understand something first of all i am not the advocate of hammas a voice that has condemned their atrocities on the 7th of October, publicly, maybe the only voice from the Palestinian side with political profile. And I keep criticizing. And I think the regime should end immediately. But in this particular moment, the ones who are delayed the progress of the Trump plan is the Prime Minister of Israel.

if Engad enters, it will be able to take power from Hamas. And they will hand over the guns. And there won't be a separate Hamas militia that attacks anybody who wants to attack and enforces its will even unofficially. In other words, the fear, as I understand it, from the Israelis, is it's all going to be a veneer. What actually will be happening is that Hamas, in the background, knowing it can kill anyone who wants to kill,

will make sure that everyone does what it tells them to do, even if the name is different, even if there's some guns belonging to some police that works under Enkag and not actually under Hamas, but that Hamas will never actually relinquish control. You have been, I should say, I should tell people, I should confirm it from my side of the aisle, massive and public and consistent critic of Hamas

and blaming Hamas for a lot of what has happened. You've criticized Israel. I don't want to get you in hot waters with a palisthia. I'm just saying you genuinely, from where you stand, think Hamas actually can be disarmed in this process? Definitely, yes, and I am responsible on this. And I have copies of documents that were transferred from Hamas to the American team confirming everything that I have told me.

They can in one week transfer all the civil authority, including 50 centers of income to. the regime, taxation and others, the police, the internal security, and all the guns, everything that they have inherited in 2007

from the PA, they will transfer it. So, worst-case in a similar model of the West Bank, where there is a national regime that is enforcing law and still Hamas anywhere if they try to

do something, somebody is controlling it. Let me tell you something about it. If the Prime Minister of Israel would insist that he should have disarmament of Hamas immediately. Why doesn't he start this in the West Hamas? I mean, is it only

disarmament is all applicable in Gaza? Hamas disarmament is only important in Gaza? Why doesn't he start the job in the Wasteland? Because this is illusion. Because he is already trialed for 30 years. Because it is a process that does not stop. It should start and it continues.

It's not a temporary event, a one-day event. It is a process. You cannot say I will freeze everything in Gaza until they fully disar. This armament never ends. It is a battle. It continues. It needs a lot of effort. Then Goryon has activated the Altena option after the independence of Israel, and he himself

has knocked down the Altena ship because he was so careful to maintain the sovereignty of the state and the rule of one law and one arm. And that could be the Palestinian government. You're saying a Palestinian government in Gaza will be able to do what the Israeli army won't be able to do because all Gazans will be behind it, because Hamas won't be able to explain, because Hamas itself is saddled with, and this is another thing I want to get to the state of Gaza under Hamas. Chamas is bankrupt. And you think all of those forces will mean a real disarmament going forward. Definitely, it is a Palestinian address that takes the responsibility. It can never be done

by an Israeli. Do you think that the Israeli army has missed something and not doing it? it in Gaza in the last almost three years? Do you think that they could have done something else and they did not do it? Why didn't they achieve full disarm? Because it is a process.

Okay, they started. It doesn't end tomorrow. It's not subject to the will of anybody. An organization is like that. And it's important for me to explain things because we need to think in a correct way to be able to take correct decisions.

Such organization with tens of thousands of of biceps who have possessed officially from Hamas for tens of years, for several years,

with the collapse of the organization. Now Hamas is not the same Hamas that we new in 6th October 2020. It has received a very massive head. There is no central command now. It is not functioning

as it used to be. I'm speaking in particular on the military wheel. Every one of them that has a gun now, he believes this is his. It's his honor. His commanders, his partners in the structure that he was organized in. And no more there. Maybe he is alone.

Maybe he was part of the people. It is a big mess. And this guy worth $7,000. And you want to convince somebody that has been in the tunnels for three years that has none of his family, go and, you know, surrender your gun, and you have no compensation. and it is not easy. We can say,

we can put it as a slogan. It needs a responsible Palestinian address to enter, take whatever they are offering now in public, and start pushing, working hard, taking hard decisions, very tough decisions, painful decisions sometimes in order to increase the level of enforcement of the law. Until we have done that, I want to say I'm happy if Gaza will be in a similar level of control to Egypt or Jordan or even Israel in Israel.

I mean, if you have the organized crime families and gangs, that Israel is not able to do anything with them. Not control. There are not correct. They are not stopped. They are killing almost two Israeli citizens in the day until now. So it is always a challenge for any proper authority. even an authority that is functioning in a very democratic, healthy situation with all the instruments and infrastructure and the capabilities and the assets needed to fight a crime or

terror or illegal art. It is a process. It needs to start. All what I am advocating for is that start point should be entering in Ghana. And I think, I believe, as a Palestinian that showed a lot of people, it's a lot of people. lot of sympathy with the Israeli victims. I visited the Biba's family and I asked for the pardon on behalf of my people. I know the pain at the others.

I know the anger. I know the trauma. But I think it is very important not for the Israeli society to close the account with the Dazzo. It cannot continue to be an open account. For every Israeli who lost his life on the 7th October, 70 Palestinians paid with their lives in Jersey. I think we should reach to a level today and say, okay, we settle data.

Now, let's look in a strategy that will bring 100% stability and security for Israel. Maybe if I want to talk now about a language of bringing back life to Gaza or, you know, ending the suffer of the dozens today that are mostly living in plastic tents, maybe, well, in Washington, D.C., few people will care. But when I say, they listen to me,

This steps is an investment in strategic security for Israel. Everybody will listen. I think a continuation of the presence of the Israeli arm, over 50% of Gaza, four, five battalions that are currently spreading in more than 50% of Gaza. This is not the arrangements that can guarantee security for Israel. The only arrangement that can guarantee key security for Israel is to enable a complete regime change in Gaza, to open again for the possibility of reconstructing Gaza and to place only one battalion on the borders of Gaza, instead of four battalions over 50% of Gaza.

With the proper park, we are always lucky to have President Trump and his engagement. and his dedications, and I think he's sincere into trying to achieve peace in the Middle East, we need to use this kind of dedication from an American president that is holding the responsibility, putting his name, and leaving the process. We should trust him and allow him to continue this process. He has almost two years left. It's not a long time. And by the way, the tram plan ends according to the Security Council resolution in 31st of December of 2007.

Six months passed. We have 18 months left. There is not a lot of time. And this is a very precious time that we don't want to lose. We want to use this time in the best way and confident that there is a very precious time. Israeli public, or the Israeli people, who were able to open a new chapter with the Germans after the Holocaust, they can open a new chapter with the Palestinians after the 7th of October, not to do a favor to anybody.

It's out of national interest. Israel is in desperate need to be integrated in full in the Middle East. and I think the Middle East, all the Middle East, it's in Sydney, including, I've seen some media, events, panels and studios, in Lebanese TV, where Lebanese now are daring to say we would like to have normalization with Israel. So a new regime in Syria that is opening the doors.

Lebanese are now mobilizing in a way that is opening the doors for normalization with Israel. Saudi Arabia, the whole region would like to integrate Israel. And I think we Palestinians, it's in our best interest to allow this integration and to be included in that process. We need to start thinking in that direction. We cannot stay a lot in the 7th October. It does not help anybody. Israel has proved.

that it is a very strong country, that it has a very strong army, that it has always found a way to defend itself, that military strength is obvious to everybody, and I think that military strength is the only safety valve now in terms of public opinion and trust internally for the Israelis to go through a passage that will lead to integration and a change region. We need to open a new chapter.

We are always ready. You can see all the indications that are helping us. It's just we need political will. We need to change as Palestinians. We need to do a lot of things. And I think the Israelis also they need to take certain steps.

My sense of the Gaza War was that It wasn't revenge. I very much felt a desire for revenge against Hamas, not against Gaza as a whole. But the getting Hamas, the war to get Hamas, the way Hamas built those tunnels, what it takes to actually pull them out,

what it takes to actually destroy those tunnels, is what this war looked like, a raiding war where you went into the same place four or five, six times. That place is demolished by the time you're in the sixth raid. You're saying to Israelis, you're saying to Israelis who are in this sort of revenge space, you're saying, guys, look at what Gaza has suffered. The revenge has been achieved many times over. But you're saying to Israelis that are where I'm at, which is we actually have to get Khanass out of the way. You're saying, this is going to get Khanazha out of the way. That is on offer now. It can't be done by demolishing Dira Balach. It can be done by demolishing what's left in Gaza. It can only be done through this rebuilding process that is now on offer. And the Israelis, you need. to get with the program. Is that accurate? Is that basically what you're saying?

Definitely. I think this is a very good summary for my opinion, my point of view. The aim is clear for everybody. The discussion is over the process. How can we reach that? I also, I share with you the sense which shocks me that you say it. I haven't heard other Palestinians say it. And maybe it's because I I haven't been listening properly, but Trump is such an opportunity for Palestinians, because Trump has something that a future Democratic president probably won't have, which is massive leverage over the Israelis. Trump got Netanyahu to stop, Trump got Netanyahu to agree, and the UN Security Council, and even China and Russia wouldn't veto it to the 20-point plan,

which is a massive rebuilding plan. The Israelis are very focused on Hamas disarming, I think Article 2 of the plan, But everyone everywhere, the Arabs, vast amounts of money, and even Netanyahu, because he's not going to face down Trump on this, are on board with this plan. And it feels as though Hamas resisting this plan is a defying of Palestinian, a basic Palestinian interest. So if Palestinians, more so, you're saying the Israelis are preventing them from coming in. I hear that. I understand that. Palestinian conversation needs to tell the Israelis what you're saying, right?

This is the way to get Hamas disarmed. This is going to work. This is a moment Palestinians have to grab if Palestinians miss Trump. It is not clear to me that a future president, because they won't be as pro-Israel, because they won't be as necessary for Israel, because Israel will already have written them off, won't have that leverage that they could use for the Palestinians.

So also that sense of urgency, I agree with you. manifestly in the Palestinian interest. And so take us to the elections, to the local elections. In the West Bank, in Dere al-Balach in Gaza, something very, very interesting happened. People could have read about it in the news. Most people will not have read about it in the news

because it kind of went under the radar. Many other things are happening. Iran, Hormuz, etc. Something completely unexpected happened in these local elections that we just went through and just saw. You were involved deeply in them. including, by the way, with lists in Deal al-Banach.

So what happened and what is its signal and why does it make you an optimist? Well, I can summarize them in the forum. First of all, the new law for the local election requested as a condition for any candidate or any list that is participating in the election to sign and writing a commitment of recognizing the agreements, recognizing support. and supporting the agreement signed between ELO and Israel, which means recognizing the state of Israel. This has forced Hamas, jihad Islamic, the Popular Front, Democratic Front, all the radicals of the Palestinian side to boycott that elections

and launch a campaign on boycott. For them, they didn't want to say, and it turned out, I turned out in this election. They wanted to see very low participation in that election. So they have done their max possible. Yet, 53% was the rate of thermal, which is good. It does not mean that 47% is the exact level of influence for the radicals, because in any election, any society, 25%.

percent of society does not care about any elections. If we take out this- I think the Americans at 50 to 60 in a good election. Yeah. With nobody telling them not to vote, yes. Israel, which is a very active, very active society in politics. The turn out was around 72, 73%. So let us say usually 25% of unsociety

will not care of any elections. There was never higher. Okay, so let's take out these 25%. What's left for Hamas? is 22% not only Hamas with the Jihad Islam with the Popular Front, with the Democratic Front, with everybody that called for the back. This gives us a very accurate status of the Palestinian society.

Radicals are on the side of around 25%. The mainstream is 50-55%. And there are these careless people who are 25%. This is a very healthy situation. because always the mainstream will be able to manage those who are in the sides. It's like this. Always in any society there are radicals. There are extremists.

They can be kept. It's just the mainstream need to hold itself together and be able to raise it voice louder than the others. Now, on the results of the elections, wherever the list of President Abbas has been challenged almost whatever, almost. It has been defeated by independentists, by opposition, by opposition, by people that are committed to the agreements with Israel and to the dialogue and to the diplomatic channels. Yet they are not in agreement with Abbas and his corruption and his uselessness. He has been useless for the Palestinian for 21 years. He did not achieve anything.

He has dealt with several Israeli prime minister, 50% of the Israeli prime ministers during its history. He did not succeed with any one of them. And after 21 years of leadership of presidency, at the age of 91, he still wants us to give him more time to trial. So... And his son is running after him to replace him as head of father. Yes, a succession process now is starting today in Ramallah.

Now, this moment and the vote will be on. Saturday. So I mean he wants to create a Palestinian monarchy for his dynasty to continue. So instead you know some people are calling him moderate. What kind of moderation is this? A person that has zero sensitivity to the needs of his people. See zero sensitivity to the internal rights of his own people. If you don't respect the internal rights of your own people, your own people. How can nuclear agency representing their collective rights in front of the others? How can you be the voice of negotiations with them? A voice that reflects their opinion to the international community and manage the relation with Israel, with the Arab countries,

with the international community on the Avondi. It can't well. So it was a defeat for Abbas and Hamas. And I think it's time now for the international community to push for national elections. We Palestinians need national elections. We need to go and vote out Abbas and Hamas. This is the only way to defeat radicalism and corruption. And this is the only way to produce a Palestinian leadership that is able to change the dynamics of relations of our people with all the neighboring countries with Israel and start talking a language

and putting an agenda that works best for the best interest of both Israelis and Palestinians because I think what we are not and maybe I need to conclude with this statement usually I do have some conversations where I ask a question,

especially for a Palestinian crowd. Why do you think that we Palestinians are important? for the whole world. And then I start getting answers. None of them is the correct answer. The correct answer, I believe, is that we are not important, not for anybody.

The importance is the Jewish question for the whole world, the Jewish presence, the Jewish history. And we are lucky we find ourselves in conflict to them. So we became important. Now imagine if we change this relation from conflict to partnership, the interest, the supports, the importance, the presence for us and the Israelis together all over the world will be 100 times more, 1,000 times more. There is no country, no president, no entity in the world

that can say no to the Israelis and Palestinians if they agree, cooperate, if they start working together. So we need to work hard to change this relation from conflict to partnership. It is our obligation to our coming generations to change their lives and forever on both sides. Samir, we have to finish thank you so much for coming on.

You are battling 30 years of what Israelis believe has been one failure after another. You have specific data points on why you think Hamas is losing ground and why you think the Abbas version of Fatah is losing ground. It's something we're going to start watching because we haven't been watching those data points.

God, I hope you're right. God, I hope you're right. I don't know. I talked to many Palestinians who just say, no, you're all going to eventually be kicked out of here because we will never stop. And I don't think that's accurate. Never mind whether I believe I'll fight back or not. I just literally don't think that is in the cards. And so it's a great way to destroy the Palestinian cause, not Israel.

But if what you say is right and if what you say, even if it's an optimistic version and it's half right, then maybe there is a possible future path. we can begin to see forward. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for everything you do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.