ASK Salt Spring: Answered - EP 13 - Gary Holman - Salt Spring Infrastructure Issues

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

Gary Holman talks about "prudent use of debt" to deal with aging infrastructure repairs such as the electrical room and rotting walls at the pool. 

Welcome to the Cheer.fm podcast, Ask Salt Spring Answered. After many Ask Salt Spring events, we sit down in our studio with Gail Baker's guest and review some of the key points discussed. Welcome to episode 13. Damien Inwood sits down again with Gary Holman and they talk about the prudent use of debt to deal with aging infrastructure on Salt Spring. Okay, I'm here with Gary Holman, who's the CRD director for Salt Spring Island and soon to be the chair of the new LCC or not necessarily the chair? Probably not the chair, an LCC commissioner. The chair probably will be one of the other commissioners. I might be vice chair. I think there'd be some advantage to me being vice chair.

Okay. And we've just had a two-hour session with Ask Salt Spring. And let's just have a look at some of the things that we discussed. One was the prudent use of debt. Is there such a thing? I don't know. You told us there was. So perhaps you can. I think the issue here was, as you said, there are a number of possibly worn out facilities on Salt Spring that are debt free right now that we don't have necessarily the money to fix up like the pool, which requires a new electrical room and is showing signs of rot in the walls of the envelope and so on. Various other things that you said needed to be upgraded. I do have a list here. I think you said that there was the pool, the tennis courts being moved, and a number of other things.

The centennial boardwalk The Centennial Boardwalk. Centennial Boardwalk. We've had an assessment done that indicates over time there'll be substantial refurbishment needed. I mean, then there are things like sidewalks in Ganges, accessibility, pedestrian and cycling safety in Ganges. There's a clear... And then the more aspirational, and I'll put the Harbour Walk in that category. Others would say, no, that's essential.

But when you go down the list of either facilities that need to be refurbished just to keep them operating properly. The pool is the single biggest example. All the way through to more aspirational like the Harbor Walk. Well, there's only so much funding available to us. And there's three funding sources. One is tax requisition through various services like Parks and Rec. And by the way, the Harbor Walk would be a Parks and Rec investment, the pool, a lot of the assets that are depreciating,

and a lot of the aspirations are in the Parks and Rec category. And that's a service that the local community commission will be taking over. Anyway, requisition is one source. Community works funding, gas tax funding from the federal government. Actually, I guess there's four. Grants that you can apply for, and typically for grants you need to have detailed – shovel-ready is the term. So for Harbor Walk, we're in the process of developing a detailed design for

the Harbor Walk, at which point you can go out and look for grant funding or even raise funds within the community. And finally, debt. And the point I was making about debt in the meeting was that by 2026, for CRD island-wide services, so that includes parks and rec, that includes the library, that includes liquid waste, the facility down in Burgoyne, we will be virtually debt-free by 2026. So I'm raising that because I think, and this is where I use the term prudent use of debt, can play a role in funding either assets that are depreciating and need urgent care, assets that need, where there's a clear need like sidewalks and Ganges, and more aspirational projects. I think debt has to play a role in funding some or all of those.

So I've raised it a few times because I know borrowing money by the CRD or, you know, any local government entity, we just borrowed significant funds for the fire district to get a new fire hall. You know know that discussion can be fraught with peril uh i don't think people are particularly fond of the notion of having to borrow money but but i think done prudently it can play an important role and uh i think i think we need to be and when i say we i mean the local community commission need to be thinking about that and and thinking about it the the first place you start is to you know kind of raise it publicly

and discuss it publicly which I'm trying to do to at least you know kind of broach the idea. So prepare people for one of the first things that the LCC might decide to do is borrow some money. I shouldn't, I can't say that. That'll obviously be up to the local community commission, but for sure they are going to have to deal with, for example, the pool. So what we've discovered with the pool is that the envelope of the building is essentially, I don't know if it's the correct term, but essentially rotting. We're going to have to replace that envelope. We'll be getting an assessment done and costs estimated. We have to do that in order to keep that very well-used facility going, right? And so the commission is going to have to deal with that one way or another.

And in the course of discussing how to deal with it, the issue of borrowing money may come up. The point I'm making is that as a community, at least in terms of CRD services, we're in a pretty good position in terms of debt. And like I say, we'll be virtually debt free within three years. Now, this could be millions of dollars, but you said over the course of the borrowing term, it doesn't amount to a huge increase in taxes for people. Well, you know, to be determined. And of course, if you're going to proceed with, voters have to approve and voters would have to understand what the costs were. And behind, in order to get those costs, you have to understand what the the costs were and and behind in order to get those costs you have to do detailed designs and a lot of uh due diligence but yeah you you spread

that borrowing over time and on a per household basis well all i'm saying is done done prudently uh that that the and and given the fact that we're retiring the debt, which basically frees up tax requisition, that if we approach it in a prudent manner, the tax impact can be relatively modest. I know that's all qualitative. And if and when we ever got to a borrowing bylaw, people are going to know exactly what it's for and exactly what the numbers are. Does the CRD have any recourse in regards to this envelope obviously leaking and rotting inside in terms of when the building was first constructed?

Presumably there was some kind of performance guarantee or whatever on it. Is that something you're investigating? That's a good question. I've asked that question of staff and apparently that's been explored and it is, according to staff, not possible. That's all I know at this point, yeah. Okay. Now, talking about borrowing, you brought up the fact that the CRD regionally is borrowing to widen the Galloping Goose Trail at a cost of $14 million, and that voters on Salt Spring will have to bear part of that cost. Yes. So it's not an initiative at this point. It's been raised by the board chair.

The Galloping Goose, the CRD is looking at widening it, making improvements, lighting. It's so well used, it's actually getting unsafe for cyclists and pedestrians. So it needs to be widened and that

it's about a six kilometer portion of the Galloping Goose. We have been doing our best to get grant funding. We'll continue to do that. But you're kind of waiting for Godot there. We've not been successful so far. So the board chair has broached now a couple of times, as I guess I'm doing here locally, talking about, you know, we may have to go to taxpayers

if we can't get grant funding. And yes, Salt Spring would be included in that. The boring would have to be approved by voters. There probably would be an alternative approval process. But my understanding is that even if Salt Spring voters opposed it, if the majority of jurisdictions in the CRD supported it, then it's likely the borough would go We're kind of the tail wagging the dog. Now, in that particular case, I do support it because I do think it's active transportation is right within CRD's wheelhouse. Victoria, because of the Galloping Goose, Lockside Trail, E&N, we've got, I think, just about the highest ridership in terms of cycling, maybe even in Canada. And we've been quite successful in building and enhancing those pathways. I do support, in this case, I do support the borrowing. And in my view, it's an example of a prudent investment. Not only to – there are obviously – there's greenhouse gas emission implications as well, right,

to the extent you can get people out of their cars and cycling. And the advent of e-bikes, it's – the provincial government, you probably – folks have heard of this $6 million program of rebates. That program within a matter of hours was oversubscribed. So e-bikes are taking off. E-bikes make it possible for a whole lot of folks who otherwise wouldn't cycle, including people like me. It really is a game changer and and and that's uh that's what CRD is thinking about in terms of this um galloping goose pathway is that as as people get into e-bikes the the the growth in demand for that infrastructure is uh is really accelerating which is a good thing uh so in my

view that particular investment is a is a good one right now in my view, that particular investment is a good one. Right. Now, we have our own Salish Sea Trail that was talked about as well. Now, there was a suggestion that we try and get some kind of money out of an overall borrowing to pay for some of that. Is that something that you think is feasible it it it's it's possible and you know in terms of borrowing i've you know there's a whole range of of need uh that that could be considered i'm i'm not sure for the salish sea trail that i i would go to local taxpayers first for that now again my opinion but the in my view the the most cost-effective from salt springs perspective a way to approach that is to continue the Ganges Hill repaving continue that as a model model to finish the Salish Trail on Salt Spring,

which on Salt Spring, for the most part, is probably going to take the form of wider shoulder lanes. And so what MOT is doing with Ganges Hill, which is going up to Cranberry, is to repave that. But also when they're doing that, to include in the pavement a 1.2-meter either-side shoulder bike lane and then up to a half a meter of graveled shoulder. That, I think, is the way to complete the Salish Trail on Salt Spring. So that would be, and we are advocating, the minister came to Salt Spring, as you know, you interviewed him last Friday, that in my view is where we should be pushing is to get the ministry to continue that Ganges Hill repaving section by section and complete the uh the trail that way crd uh also the crd regional trail on salt spring

is coincident with the salish sea trail it's the same fulford to ganges to vesuvius same area so crd next year i believe is allocating about 250 000 to uh probably for initial design work. They're looking at the Vesuvius portion. So CRD can and should be a partner. My priority would be to look to those funding sources first before we broach the notion of, say, borrowing money to complete the Salish Trail on Salisbury. Like MOT is responsible for our roads. They need to eventually repave Fulford to Ganges anyway,

and while they're doing that, build in shoulder bike lanes. That's the most cost-effective way of approaching that. That's a very long stretch of road for them to repave, though. It's not likely to happen in the next short while, is it? No, it'd be done over time so that is the that would be the price you would pay so we could decide as voters okay we're going to repave fulford to ganges but in my view we've got other very pressing needs that we absolutely need to take care of as a community uh and and given the fact that it is an MOT right-of-way, given the fact that it is

coincident with the Serity Regional Trail, I would be pushing those governments to fund it first. But yeah, the downside of that, particularly with MOT, well, probably with both parties, is it would take time to do that. Okay. I personally am willing to live with that if it means we can get it funded by regional and provincial bodies. Maybe the LCC won't agree with that. But, you know, the other thing, too, is we can't forget about Ganges. So the Transportation Commission, which is now being dissolved, and that service will be taken over by the LCC, commissioned a study of active transportation in the Ganges area. So cycle and pedestrian infrastructure in Ganges.

That, to me, for our local tax dollars, would be be the priority that's where you get the biggest bang for the buck that's where most of the interactions are that's where you know visitors and and residents are driving walking cycling and we absolutely need better infrastructure in downtown ganji so i i don't want, again, me speaking personally, I wouldn't want the Salish Trail to overshadow the need for pedestrian cycling infrastructure in Ganges. And if I was making the choice, and again, this will be the LCC decision, my priority for local dollars would be Ganges, and then look to regional and senior governments to be the primary funding sources for the Salish Trail.

Okay, now we did spend quite a bit of time on health care, which I know is not part of the LCC's mandate, but Kurt Firestone came and he did talk about Lady Minto and the money that the CRD had invested in the new emergency room. And he wanted to know if there was any guarantee on staffing levels in writing because of the fact that the doctors are saying they don't have enough people to run the emergency department now. Now, I think you said that there was some kind of a letter, but there was no guarantee that they would be meeting certain staffing levels. Is that right? Yeah. So, yeah, the CRD through the hospital district contributed $3.74 million to that $12.5 million facility. Great news for Salt Spring.

Look, I get the concern about doctors and nurses, for that matter. So Island Health has committed to not only being the project manager for the construction, but also to hire additional doctors and nurses to operate the facility. Of course, if it turns out that they're not providing the funding, then absolutely, I'll be first in line objecting to that, taking it to the board, you know, whatever we have to do. But we're not there yet. So let's not get too excited at this point. It's absolutely valid to have the concern and to keep a watchful eye, but we're not there yet. And there is no legal. We can't take Island Health to court if they don't follow through on the funding. I don't think the funding will be a problem.

Getting people to fill the positions might be a problem. So that then goes to issues like housing and related matters like that, that can be a constraint to getting people to work here. But, you know, in my view, let's cross that bridge when we come to it. And no, you can't sue Island Health if they're not providing the funding. But like I say, I don't think the funding will be the issue. I think it'll be filling the positions, just like with the vacancies now. Like over 40, I've heard, over 40 health workers, and that's not just doctors, nurses, but it's people who maintain the building and clean the building, which are essential for that facility. The positions are funded. The difficulty isn't island health with the funding commitment.

The difficulty is finding people to fill the positions, which is not just an issue here but province-wide, and not just health but a whole range of sectors. BC Ferries, I mean, go down the list. It's a remarkable kind of disconcerting situation where there are thousands of jobs going unfilled for reasons that I don't entirely know. I know housing is definitely an issue and both the hospital foundation, which purchased the Seabreeze, and hopefully at some point that'll get resolved. But also Island Health itself are securing accommodation for health workers. Yeah, okay.

Talking of ferries, you did mention something which you said had gone under the radar for most of us, that the BC government had committed $500 million to stabilizing fares on the minor routes. What's the impact of that, do you think? Now, is it just minor routes? I thought it was, but I stand to be corrected if it includes major routes. But I think the focus was minor because the major routes, like Swartz Bay to Wausen, they basically recover their costs because of the volumes. So I think it is minor routes.

And all I know is what the minister stated is without that 500 million injection, fares could be increasing at 9% or 10% a year, whereas they're trying to keep them down in the 2%, 3% kind of rate of inflation. And, yeah, it's gone almost completely unnoticed. Like we focus in on the service disruptions and Vesuvius and occasionally at Fulford and the congestion and the safety issues and, you know, all valid issues in those terminals. I'm just pointing out and want to remind folks

that the provincial government has made this huge contribution to keeping fares within, let's say, a reasonable range, and it's just kind of gone under the radar. So to mix metaphors, there's light at the end of the tunnel. Yes, just be careful it's not a train. Exactly. Okay, thanks, Gary. Thanks for joining me today.

And this, as usual, is an Ask Salt Spring podcast. And my name is Damian Inwood. I'm on cheer.fm, the voice of the Southern Gulf Islands.