ASK Salt Spring: Answered - Ep. 42 Gary Holman

Episode Date: August 15, 2024

Ep. 42 Gary Holman talks to Ask Salt Spring Answered about the Drake Road housing project, increasing speed limits in Ganges and other issues.

You're listening to episode 42 of Ask Salt Spring Answered in which we talk to Gary Holman, the CRD Director and a member of the Local Community Commission commission about such issues as speed limits through Ganges being expanded, the rural housing initiative and community services having some resignations from their board. Okay I'm here with Gary Holman who is the CRD director and a member of the LCC and we've just been in Ask Salt Spring with Gary and Gail Baker as the LCC representatives and you started off by talking about the big huge hole on Drake Road. Could you expand on that please? Yes which oddly enough I was describing as progress. Well it's been a bit frustrating,

but we've been waiting quite literally for years for BC Housing to make good on their promise for the supported housing facility on Drake Road, which is Seardy-owned but leased long-term to BC Housing. So they finally started site prep in a serious way. They're talking about being ready for occupation. Is that the right word? Anyway, to be occupied like mid-year next year. So unfortunately, it's not going to be available this winter. So it's been delayed. But the good news is that it's more units than they were originally talking. It's 32 units of supported housing plus four units of worker housing, so 36 versus 28.

It's going to be a new build. What was proposed before were actually existing. It's modular, so they constructed off off-site and hold on site so once they get the foundation done and it'll go up fairly quickly um but new build uh versus existing modulars that were being basically deconstructed that actually it turned out they had mold uh and there was a rehab process required, and they had problems with their contractor, so basically abandoned that. I think that's probably the key reason for the delay. So now we're talking new build, which is good in itself, purpose built, but also will have an elevator in the building, which, again, the existing monitors didn't.

So longer than we'd hoped for to bring to fruition, but in the end, more units in the facility. It'll be, in my view, I think it'll be pretty transformative for Salt Spring because we don't have anything like this. This isn't just housing, right? It's ongoing supports as well. It'll be 24-7 management at the facility. Whoever gets the contract to operate, they'll be going out with an RFP, I think, maybe even this year, but they have to have that operator lined up. So it's another element of housing that we need here.

To a certain extent, it'll be for folks who don't have housing at all. The Seabreeze tenants will have the top priority. But it's the ongoing supports as well and opens up, I think, some possibilities that aren't available to us now because we don't have a facility like that. Right. Now, talking to the Seabreeze, you mentioned that I think the CRD has agreed to put the Seabreeze onto the town sewer system. Is that correct? Yeah. So they were just outside the boundary. And so in order to be included, they had to come to the ganji sewer commission sewer commission recommended yes the board has final authority and the board has approved that so

that sewer line will be extended up to the sea breeze which is good because it's a two-acre property which may have they're renovating it for i think 17 health worker units, which again is going to be really beneficial to the community, but it is a two acre property. So there is maybe potential there and a good reason, their septic system was problematic in any case. But if certainly if you were going to have more housing up there being connected to the sewer system, we are expanding by the way we got 1.3 million from the provincial growing community fund to eliminate the pinch points in

the system the plant has lots of capacity but the collection the system there's a few places where it's a constraint on capacity and so that funding will eliminate that and it will free up capacity in our sewer system staff estimate for up to 500 units the sea breeze will be part of that okay good now um oh and just uh damian the another important thing is that the the hospital foundation which purchased the property is renovating the property and and you know thanks to their donors uh who are basically funding this um they are coordinating with moti regarding the repaving of ganji's hill so the last thing we want to do is repave the hill and then tear up the pavement to do the sewer line so they're talking about the timing, but also even possibly using MOT.

We'll see. This is secondhand information. I'm not involved in those discussions, but the foundation is actually asking MOT if they could use their contractor to actually lay the sewer line. So there could be some cost economies there. Right, okay.

Hopefully it doesn't get delayed by the delays that inevitably will happen on Ganges Hill. You know, delays is part of the real world, but in the end, the wait will be worth it. Yes, indeed. Okay, so the first item up for discussion outside of those issues was the speed limits in Ganges and complaints that, in fact, the 30-kilometer an hour zone doesn't go far enough and a request that it should go at least to country grocer. What's the situation there? I mean, I think you were talking about there's been some discussion on this, right? The former Transportation Commission, which was dissolved now, it's the local community commission that has authority over that service. So when we were advocating for the 30-kilometer speed limit in Ganges,

which was implemented partway, right? It goes to like a little bit past Rainbow Road from the bottom of Ganges Hill. That was a win. Like in electoral areas, it may be one of the few, maybe even the only electoral areas where MOT has actually approved a significant reduction in the speed limit. When we were originally advocating for that, we were advocating for it to go up to Country Grocer.

I'm pretty sure the local community, certainly I feel, and I think the local community commission feels that's still our goal, and we will be revisiting that as a community commission. We'll continue to advocate for reduced speed limits and extending that 30k up to Country grocer right now we're advocating we're not directing mot we're we're you know we're essentially requesting but they they've we've already gotten a win which is uh pretty significant uh for an electoral area for a rural area so we're you know we're we live in hope uh but we're you know we're requesting and actually you know come to think of it uh perhaps the local community commission should be reaching

out to our community like for example country grocer itself uh if if we can get key businesses like that stakeholders uh weighing in on the need for it, that would be helpful too. So that's something actually, as we're talking about, it would be useful to do. Yeah, because it is a fact. I mean, I've experienced it myself that when you're coming in and out of Country Grocer, there is traffic flying by down the road, particularly going downhill. And it can be quite challenging at that point. So I'm not surprised Country Grocer's interested. The community bus system came up, and it was suggested that we have smaller buses or vans on less-traveled routes. And I gather that's not something that BC Transit looks fondly at. Is there a solution to this problem for the

Cushion Lake Road and there's another route that's not so well-traveled as the ferry routes obviously? There's an intuitive logical argument for smaller vehicles which you know for less used routes would suit perfectly fine right in terms of the capacity the former Transportation Commission advocated for that BC Transit made it clear to us that in rural areas this is what they this is the size bus you get right so they're a key funder it's a 50 50 funding arrangement so uh we've advocated for it bc transit is saying um that the the size of the bus we got those are the size they use for rural areas the opportunity may lie though in working with NGOs, with private partners. Well, Country Grocer has a shuttle now that serves at least to a certain extent.

I know Greenwoods, they have a bus that they were looking at refurbishing. I don't think it's being used now. So we could maybe work with NGOs or private partners to supplement the existing scheduled service. I saw Park has a bus out here that's parked here for a long time. They do but I don't think that can be used for you know hop on hop off kind of stuff. It can be used for parks and rec purposes which of course is still a transit related service it's just it has to be very you know you're you're going to the

you're the rec center or you're going on an excursion to duncan or whatever so i don't think that bus would be particularly useful but uh yeah i think the if there are any opportunities at least at this point based on our understanding of of bc transit's policies smaller, more nimble buses. The way to approach that, I think, is with the private sector or NGOs. All right, okay. One of the attendants brought up this topic of the land at the bottom of Ganges Hill there, which is owned by Country Grocer and Staff Housing. And I think they talked about market condos above.

I don't know if that's been publicly released as a plan, has it? Yeah, and I would hesitate to say anything about Country Grocer's plans. I've heard similar things, but ultimately their first step would be go to Islands Trust, right? It'd be rezoning. But then there's related water and sewer issues for that property as well. If you're adding density there,

we do have a water moratorium in place, so they have to come to grips with that. And the trust would, that would be a key consideration for the trust. So basically the next step for Country Grocer, and again, I'm not speaking for them, but it seems to me the next step would be the land use approval from the trust but that process of considering land use changes

the trust will refer issues like water to north salt spring they'll refer the issue of sewer to the crd that those they'll refer uh road safety issuesOTI. There's a whole referral process that gets triggered as part of a rezoning application. Now, as I understood it, I remember when North Shore Waterworks District came, North Shore North Salt Spring Waterworks District came here some months ago. They said they were going to release this information in May. Do you know what the delay is, why we haven't had this?

You mean make a statement about the moratorium? Well, they were going to make a statement about how much capacity they had. I think that was what they were talking about, that they were going to investigate if they had extra capacity and what they could do in terms of the moratorium. And we're into August now. We still haven't heard anything. Have you been talking to them about that at all?

You know, off and on. I can't speak for them, but it's my understanding that they're reviewing the moratorium. They're looking at the rationale, all of the technical work, the historical data that they're pouring over, the technical reviews by qualified, you know, they're really doing their homework. And so all I know is I heard the same thing, is that at some point fairly soon, they'll

be making an announcement around the moratorium. And I don't know what that will be, but, yeah, we are waiting for that. But, you know, in fairness to them, it's an issue they really have to be careful about and really do their due diligence. So, yeah, that's all I know at this point. And, you know, well, hopefully they'll be making an announcement soon.

But, again, we need to talk to them directly. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. And I think there was a question about the plan, the OCP. Well, it wasn't actually about the OCP, but it was about population. But it ended up being a discussion about the official community plan partial review, which is going on right now. Yes.

And that sort of morphed into discussions about Channel Ridge and the phrasing in the OCP about what criteria, I guess, they use for development and that kind of thing, or developing like mini villages or whatever, right? What's happening with the LCC on that? Yeah, so that's a trust process. Right. But the ROCP includes a number of related issues,

including CRD-related issues that become part of that kind of broad policy statement. Fundamentally, it is a land use plan, but there are other elements as well that affect water, sewer, et cetera. My understanding is that the LCC would be one of the entities that the trust would refer the OCP to, looking for input or comments on changes or keep it the way it is or whatever. So the LCC, I think, would become a referral body, much like North Salt Spring would, MOT would, one can imagine a number of organizations to which the will be explicitly invited to provide input into the OCP review. Do we have a timeline yet on this? I mean, it's been... I'm not sure of the timeline, but OCP reviews aren't a... they do take time. So I could see it taking most of the rest of the term. But again, I can't speak for the trust there. But OCP reviews can get, you know, there's serious issues involved, like around population

growth, development potential, who should we be upzoning, etc., etc. There are some policies in the OCP that I think are pretty important that I hope we retain. But, yeah, in terms of how long that will take, it's a little bit like how long is a piece of string. Right. Which particular ones do you hope they retain? Well, a couple. And this is my personal view. I'm not speaking on behalf of the LCC, but there is a particularly important language in the OCP

regarding upzoning and the criteria, the kind of the key policy criteria for upzoning, and it's language, something to the effect that upzoning should be rare and minor something like that and only to achieve the objectives of the plan so for example affordable housing is a key objective in already in the plan there's a number of policies in the ocp supporting affordable we all know how important issue that is right uh you can offer up amenities community amenities like parkland uh but the the basic principle there is and and i believe that the the trust this is something unique about the trust like compared to other say many other municipalities and i was up up close and personal with several municipalities in a formal life over on the peninsula, right?

Our OCP says the only reason we would consider upzoning is if you're going to provide the community with a significant benefit. That could include affordable housing. It could include other amenities that are actually specified in the plan, like, okay, you're going to donate some parkland or whatever, but not just upzoning, say, for a market development, upzoning for upzoning's sake. That there's got to be, as part of the deal, there has to be a significant benefit for the community. So that language is really important to retain in there.

Other language that's really important the other review the trust is doing is or they've gotten funding to do a review of it's called a complete communities indicate there's indicators there's a number of policies in our OCP that direct new development in or near villages. That's the whole idea of a complete community or compact settlement pattern. So in or near Ganges, Fulford is a village, or near transit routes. And the whole idea there is to reduce automobile dependence. If you're living in the village, you may not even need a car, right? So it's kind of planning 101. It's pretty fundamental principle in planning is to keep your settlement patterns compact.

It actually improves the viability of transit. If you've got, and we do have a very distributed settlement pattern, 265 kilometers of transit. If you've got, and we do, have a very distributed settlement pattern, 265 kilometers of roads. Our transit system only covers kind of the main routes, right? There's a whole number of areas that don't have transit service. And while we do try to expand it

and are proposing to expand it with BC Transit, that'll be coming to the LCC. Those dispersed settlement patterns really make it difficult to serve with transit, like the, you know, the returns, the number of riders you can expect. But if you keep your settlement patterns close to transit areas or in or near village, it does actually support transit expansion because you keep the population closer to the transit routes, right? And so it makes it more viable to expand over time. So all those policies around compact settlement patterns, again, in my personal opinion,

I think are crucial. And the whole debate we've had, for example, around Bylaw 530. And Bylaw 530, in my view, again, I'm expressing my personal opinion here, was contrary to those policies directing our land use authority to keep settlement patterns compact. Because basically it said, if you've got residential zoning, which is all over the island, including some of those very far-flung areas that will never get transit, are more vulnerable around fires, road washouts, you know, trees falling on power lines, bylaw 530, in my view, was not consistent with those OCP policies that directed more compact settlement patterns. And I think part of the—that doesn't mean we can't have affordable housing.

It just means we want to keep your affordable housing near transit lines or in or near villages, right? So you can still have, there doesn't necessarily have to be a contradiction between those fundamental planning principles and affordable housing. And in my view, the trust mandate about preserve and protect doesn't necessarily have to conflict with our affordable housing goals at all. In fact, I think our OCP, going back to that previous language that I was referring to, unlike other municipalities, which tend to up-zone properties in many cases without a whole lot of affordable housing being involved, they just give away density. Whereas the trust, the OCP policy,

clearly directs the trust to say, if we're going to upzone you, there's got to be a significant benefit for the community. So from that perspective, I think trust policy and our OCP, completely consistent with preserve and protect, actually supports development of more affordable housing, not less. Now the issue of the controversial market sign came up. This was one of the market vendors having a stop genocide sign at their stall.

What is the LCC or the CRD director's role in this? Do you have one at this point? Yeah, my understanding is, long story short, we don't because just recently we've devolved operation and management of the market to a non-profit society. So right now it's the society

grappling with that issue and it's a thorny one. Every time it's a thorny one. Every time, you know, it's a reference to what's happening in Gaza and the war there. Any time you raise that issue, regardless of which side, there's a strong feeling about that. It's always a thorny issue to deal with. My understanding is that the arrangement we have with the market society is that

they're going to have to come to grips with it. I did say in our meeting, and again, this is just my personal view, not necessarily staff's view or the LCC's view, is that are there some basic matters of principle that go beyond just the lease arrangement and the arrangement we have with the market society? You know, an example I used was COVID, where we had some fairly serious restrictions on the market. And there were certainly vendors who were annoyed with that. But for public health and safety reasons, we imposed that. I believe we still retain that authority on, for example, that. Because I did ask if COVID happens again or something like that, a pandemic,

do we have the authority as the CRD to step in and insist that public health and safety be adhered to? One might argue that this issue around free speech is one of those fundamental principles that maybe should involve the LCC, but my understanding is at this point, and certainly staff's view, that it's the market society's issue to deal with. So they'll sort it out and then we'll see what happens after that, right? That's my understanding. Now, you were quite excited about the rural housing program, and I wasn't too familiar with that.

Maybe you could just explain briefly what that is and why this new – you were talking about doing some workshops with some experienced Salt Spring people, planners and people who know a lot about housing development, what's the impact of this? Again, I think it could be quite positive. So it's a CRD initiative, and in particular, Justine Stark, who now works for the CRD, was a former trust planner.

Very capable, was the driving force behind this rural housing program. And I think, you know, the basic rationale there is that affordable housing in rural areas, like we've got some particular challenges, we've discussed right like water uh infrastructure capacity costs are higher here uh etc etc so that the the the uh the the typical funding programs from senior governments and for or for that matter from the crd and we've had some success attaining those, Salt Spring, because we are large enough. We've got NGOs with the capacity to secure those grants.

Like the Croftonbrook proposal, 54 units, got over $6 million in funding through the CRD and BC Housing. So we have had some success. But this program will be aimed at the two electoral areas, at least initially, and there will be funding attached. It'll be going to the board for approval this fall. person to help NGOs wade through the governance issues here, the regulatory issues. Actually, the dollars for that coordinator position are coming from the Southern Gulf Island Tourism Partnership, which is another great thing. But also as part of the program, there would be so-called PDF or pre-development funding. So those are dollars that can be difficult to get that allow you to do basic feasibility, do detailed designs.

So if all the stuff that you need in order to apply for grant funding, you don't just walk in the door to BC Housing or CRE for that matter and say, hey, we've got this great idea. Here's a sketch. Here's, you know, Here's how many units. Here's the money. Yeah, they want to see the devil in the detail. They want to see that it's viable, that you've done the numbers.

So that PDF funding is really crucial in getting to the point where you can apply for that funding. So that's one other element. And another element is incentives for suites. I'm not sure if cottages would be involved, but incentives for suites, which actually both the federal government and the province are now offering,

and Salt Spring residents can apply for those. We'll see what the devil in the detail there is in terms of the eligibility criteria. But so if you're developing a suite on Salt Spring, and there's a number of properties on Salt Spring that the thrust has legalized for suites and cottages. It still, though, in many cases, can require significant investment to actually get a suite properly done, built the code, et cetera, et cetera. So again, it's kind of characterized as islanders providing housing for islanders. So it's another element of this rural housing program that can fit anywhere,

but it particularly can be useful for rural areas like Salt Spring and the Southern Gulf Islands. So we're really looking forward to that. And when the details of the program are confirmed, this goes to your other question about the local community commission has already held one workshop, public workshop around affordable housing, the role they can play and getting input and the LCC found that workshop very useful we're also we're wanting to take that further like what's the LCC in the in the context of all of the funding programs including the rural housing program BC Housing CMHC legislation what's the LCC's role like what specifically can we do what's our role and I think understanding what the rural housing program is doing is is key that's a key okay

they're doing that so how do we supplement that we need to do something else so that that's what the LCC is going to be pursuing and I think we're probably initially going to have another workshop, which is going to get into the devil in the detail about exactly, with some local experts, including Justine, including housing consultants, including the trust, to really talk through in detail, okay, what specifically is the role the LCC could play so that will probably be happening in the fall and I'm yeah I'm

really looking forward to that discussion as well is there any kind of idea of how many units might result from this is there any speculation on that at all? No, not really. We have had a needs assessment done for Salt Spring, which identified something in the order of 600 units. That's not just affordable housing, but all units. And we shouldn't forget that folks are actually building housing on Salt Spring. There's 50 to 60 to 70 houses or units being built each and every year. That includes some affordable housing,

but in large part it's also just folks building their own house. Like Summerside, there's 10, 12, I think, townhouses in development right now, right? So that happens anyway. So the needs assessment identified a target. We need to update that. I think the trust will be doing that because it was done 2020. So I don't think there are necessarily targets associated, at least at this point, with, say, the rural housing program. In my view, the target issue is a bit moot. I've been asked before about what do you think is an appropriate target

and my response has always been more. We just need to build more affordable housing. The ultimate target could be hundreds and hundreds of units but you do the projects, you do the initiatives, you know, one thing at a time. The trust rezoning of properties for suites and cottages, but then it's up to property owners about whether they're going to take advantage of that. Very few have, but that's one element.

Another element is multifamily developments like Croftonbrook, which require significant investments, and that's why that grant funding and that PDF funding is important. But to say, well, we need 100, and if we get 100, that's enough, or if we need 600, it just, in my view, we just need to keep working at this. It will take years. And my view is that it's taken us decades to dig ourselves this huge hole. Because decades ago, and I recall Paul Martin slaying the deficit, one of the things he did to slay the deficit was cut out funding for co-ops and affordable housing.

The provincial government for a whole number of years really didn't have any significant investment. That's changed now. Both federal governments, provincial government are investing at unprecedented levels in affordable housing. But it's going to take, and now even the regional district, the CRD, but it's going to take years of concerted effort. Not just funding, but legislation like Bill 35, right, around vacation rentals, that sort of thing. It's going to take years to dig ourselves out of this hole. The whole question of affordable housing is kind of rife too, because I was listening to the radio yesterday and they were talking about

affordable housing in Vancouver, and a two-bedroom apartment at $4,200 rent a month is now considered affordable. Yeah, that may be a BC Builds program, which is a new BC housing funding program in which they're putting billions, I think, with an S. I think my understanding is that what BC Builds requires, like every program has its own criteria, what BC Builds program requires is 20% of the units have to be,

and it's rental, 20% of the units have to be 20% below market. So as long as a portion of the development meets that standard, the others can be market. But even market rental can be helpful. But, no, it does beg the question, well, what the heck is affordable? Well, actually, ROCP does have a definition of affordability, and it's tied to median income. Median income is 50% of households have more than that median income, 50% have less, right? It's like right in the middle of that distribution curve.

So if you tie affordability to median income, which I believe our OCP does, that anchors it to median income on Salt Spring is lower than for the CRD. Yes, we have rich folks here. We have poor folks here. But the median income compared to the rest of the CRD were somewhat lower for a number of different reasons. But if you tie, so the typical definition of affordability is 30% of median income. So there actually is a definition in the trust when they're rezoning. Somebody comes to them with an affordable housing, you know, the trust makes the call on how they define affordability.

But, yeah, I mean, the housing need is across the continuum doctors nurses police officers professionals earning very high incomes still find it very difficult to buy housing here and the rental housing is it's few and far between right so even market rental for that part of the distribution curve can still be still be quite important so as long as there's significant affordability involved you know i think those projects are support uh supportable croftonburg uh they got funding through another bc housing program uh and through the CRD. So they have like three tiers. The first 20% had to be social assistance rates.

I think 30 or so percent had to be affordable, again, tied to that median income thing. Right. And then the rest could be low end of market. Right. So you're covering the full continuum with that kind of development. Yeah. It's tough when you see it. I saw an ad on the exchange this week for a single room for $1,600 a month.

And, I mean, it's getting crazy. That's obviously in the private sector. But, yeah, it's a difficult situation. The last thing you brought up was community services, and you were concerned that you'd heard that the majority of the board had resigned, and you felt that it's up to the community services board to actually tell the public what's going on there. Can you tell me any more about that? Yeah, I hesitated to bring it up, but I do feel obligated,

not just as an elected official, but as a resident of Salt Spring. Community Services is such an important organization for our island. They do a whole range of great stuff for our island. They're a key part of the quality of life for our island. Just one example is the shelter that they run. They get over a million dollars a year from BC Housing to run that shelter.

That's crucial. And a whole number of other things they do, food security, I mean, go down the list. But when I believe it was four board members, I don't know the details. I'm just kind of hearing it indirectly. But when four board members who I understand was the majority of the board resigned, that really does beg a question about what's going on there. So I'm not making any judgments about what's happening there, but I do think, I mean, any organization, I think,

has a responsibility to report to their community about what's happening with the organization. There's a trust factor there for board members. I know a couple of them really well qualified well regarded uh well respected folks resigning from the board that that that begs a question and and i think it would be uh helpful i also think it's their responsibility as a board for community services to clarify for the community what's going on. Is there an issue that needs to be addressed?

Was it just for board members who couldn't get along? I think it begs an explanation. Because they have a big budget, don't they? Yeah, it's in the $7 million to $8 million range. It's almost as big as the entire CRT budget for Salt Spring. But that just, I mean, that's just a dollar

representation of the crucial role they play in the community. Okay, well I guess we'll wait and see how that shakes down. Thanks for coming in, Gary, and you've been listening to Ask Salt Spring Answered on CHIR FM. We are the voice of the Gulf Islands.