Aspire with Emma Grede - Ari Emanuel: What Hollywood’s Ultimate Power Broker Knows About Succeeding Against the Odds

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

Ari Emanuel is one of the most powerful people in entertainment and the real-life inspiration for Ari Gold on Entourage. He started in the CAA mailroom before co-founding Endeavor with three other agents and very little money. Over the next three decades, he merged the company with William Morris, acquired IMG and UFC, and helped reshape the modern entertainment business.In this conversation, Ari and Emma examine the qualities behind that extraordinary career. Ari opens up about growing up with severe dyslexia, being bullied, and using the anger he carried from those experiences to drive himself forward. He explains why you have to say what you want, how he works until he finds the yes, and why curiosity only becomes valuable when you act on it.They also explore the harder side of success. Ari reflects on the rage and aggression that helped him build his company, the moment he realized those qualities could no longer take him forward, and the work he has done to become a better leader.They get into:Turning dyslexia and rejection into emotional enduranceWhy nobody will advocate for your future more fiercely than youWhat Ari learned from starting in the CAA mailroomHis relentless approach to calls, rejection, and finding the yesHow he turns curiosity into relationships and opportunitiesWhy company culture is shaped by the behavior leaders tolerateWhat founders misunderstand about how long success takesKnowing when the qualities that built your career need to evolveWhy Ari ultimately values a life of meaning over a traditional legacyAri’s new memoir, Roll the Calls, is available now.

On Aspire, I want to understand what successful people had to learn the hard way and turn those lessons into something you can use in your own life and work. I absolutely ate up Ari Emanuel's new memoir, Roll the Course. And the more I read, the more of myself I recognised in his story. We're both dyslexic and we both learned to turn the things that could have held us back into fuel. Ari started in the CAA mailroom and went on to co-found Endeavour and built one of the most powerful businesses in entertainment. I wanted to talk to him because his career is a blueprint for turning challenges into an advantage

and for recognising when the qualities that made you successful need to evolve. As you listen, I want you to notice what Ari does with discomfort. He says what he wants, acts on his curiosity and keeps working until he finds a way forward. That is the real playbook inside this conversation. Ari Emanuel, welcome to Aspire. Thank you very much for having me. I look at you and see your career as such a blueprint for your. turning what makes you different and things that would normally be considered adversity into

what it takes to succeed. A lot of people who will be listening to this podcast will have something that feels like it stands between them and what they intend to be. So can I always hear this question? So when you decided to start your business, and you said, okay, this is what I'm going to go for. And this is what I, hopefully I've taught my kids, hopefully you're teaching your kids and I think you teach your kids through osmosis by them witnessing you. You have to ask. for the job. You have to ask. You have to have agency for yourself. I advocate for my clients. I'm a fierce, you know, I'm a do-or-die-die guy. I'm a ride-or-die guy with people. But then you have to be a ride-or-die-guy for what you want and you have to say what you want or you're definitely

not going to get what you want. 100%. And if you're not willing to do that, how the fuck are you going to ever get them? And for some reason, I think it's hard for people to announce. verbally say it. Like, I want this money. I want that. I want to, this is what I want to be. You're preaching to the converted. I'm the start with yourself, girl.

The name of my book was start with yourself. Because it's the only way that I ever knew how, because nobody is ever going to come and pluck you from obscurity and say, what are all the things that you need and want? And let me see how I can do that for you. For an agent, dyslexia is debilitating. So much of what I saw coming up in my career was agents reading, and reading nonstop.

And I just wonder. It's one of the reasons I picked television. Because in television, a half hour was like 39 pages and an hour was like 60, whatever. A lot easier than a movie script, which I just used to sweat because you have to do coverage when you're in the mailroom and when you're on a desk. I used to sweat when they gave me those feature scripts. And when they gave you television, okay, I could get through that. I can get through five, six, seven, you know, whatever. That's why I chose fashion because there was just nothing to read at all.

These will make your butt look good. Looking back now, how much of your success do you attribute to having something that you had to fight against? It drove me. I hate what people's. I was very competitive. I'm as competitive as everybody else. You might be a little bit more competitive. I just wanted to win.

And for me, that was like being successful. That definition was being the best and having my own business. I looked around and I said to myself when I was at ICM, and read the book by George Gilda Life After Television. Everybody said the television business is dead and this. And I'm like, that doesn't make any sense to me. So let's go for it. And when I was a kid, you know, you can't read.

And my mother made sure that I could read. And I'm okay with because of maybe that and because of the way my parents brought me up. I'm okay with awkward situations. I don't need people to agree with me. In our family, you came to dinner. You fought about politics. You gave your opinion. And all those things enabled me to say, stand up for myself.

And I take my hat off to my mom and dad for doing that with the three of us. I think all three boys. You turned out all right. And so I'm okay in the uncomfortable. Yeah. One, it was not comfortable, not being able to read like everybody else. And two, my parents taught me that it's okay to fight and argue and discuss things. people get a little offended because I do it probably a little louder than most people in this town

that you're supposed to just get along. It's not like I'm not getting along, but I'm not just going to agree just to agree not to have a conversation. You say openly that raging chaos were instruments of your success. So when did they actually help you and when did they cost you something? People think that there wasn't strategy behind it and that it was just shooting from the hip and sometimes it was just shooting from the hip and not caring what the outcome is because I'll live with it. One is after you just exit, but two, after I got hit by the car and I say life's not a dress rehearsal, it's not. So what do you? Like somebody's going to push you around and try and impose their will on you and you're not going to fight back.

You got the wrong fucking person. That's not who I am. And that goes into being an advocate for yourself and being agency for yourself. And I'm doing that for other people. I'll do it for myself. If somebody's trying to bully us or take advantage of the company or me or my client, that's just not how I roll. You were bullied and you called yourself the dumb one.

So is there any part of you that feels that you need to prove that label wrong? Well, there was the smart one, which was Zeke. There was the artist, which was ROM. And sometimes I refer to them as the other one, the dumb one. In our house, grades were up. You didn't get really good grades. You were grounded. That creates anxiety at one point, but also being pissed off because being dyslexic,

you don't think you're dumb. It's just you think differently. And I think back in the day, I'd have given my left arm not to be dyslexic. But it does, as Alex Karp says, enables you to think freely in a different way and think about things and organize people and do things differently and respecting yourself because you're the only one in that situation that actually can. And as you get older, you realize dyslexia is actually an advantage. And one of the reasons I wrote the book, I wanted parents to realize, that if things are, you don't coddle your kid, yeah, it's very difficult when they're dyslexic

and to teach them to read or send them to Linda Woodbell that I did with my kids. I did the same. And it's very difficult for them. It's, you know, it's heartbreaking. It's hard for us. That bloody Lindemood Bell nearly killed me. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But if you let him go through it, he or she, she gets emotional endurance and she can advocate for herself and she can handle tough stuff. Yes, there's other psychological things, but let them deal with it when they get older and you'll be there for them. And they know that there's love and kindness behind it from you. They come out on the other side of it. And it's just incredible. Because you just have this EQ, this advocacy, this ability to withstand stuff.

It's a great, it's great now. Well, I'm glad that you frame it in that way because there is a part in the book where you almost feel a sense of guilt for passing it on to your kids, which I felt. And again, of course you would. But to your point, there's so much that if handled and treated properly that your kid gets out of having something like that that they have to conquer at a young age, that it actually ends up being a superpower, as you say, in so many ways. I do want to just talk about the bullying thing for a second because I do think it's important and so many people are bullied in school. Has any of that stayed with it, you? Even as successful as you are today, is there any part of you that still feels like you've got something to prove? Well, if I think somebody is trying to do something that for some reason, I think they're questioning my intelligence.

They're trying to pass one over me or questioning whether I'm seeing the world the way I'm seeing the world. For me, that's like calling me stupid. Yeah. Right? And that dog doesn't hunt for me. And that's where a lot of the rage came in. Now, I don't know when this exactly happened, doing a lot of work. And I said to myself, and I came actually into a media.

at the company on a Monday morning meeting after going away to India. And I said to myself, you know, I've helped grow this company through rage and through aggression. It's not going to take us, it's going to get us so far. And I've got to change. And admitting that is the only way in understanding that. And it took a long time after admitting it to get there. And I understand that because I think that for so many people, you can use that idea of this is just how I am to avoid changing, which part of yourself have you genuinely had to change to become a better leader? Well, it used to be at times I would shoot in an aim, right? There's an incident with Irving, who's now a friend of mine. That was a crazy, stupid shoot, aim. I mean, it was just insane.

I was insane. And Dr. Calm in the book, my shrink at the time, like, he screamed to me, and I realized there was moments, like, you can't do this. If you want to be a leader and succeed. It's embarrassing for myself, God forbid, for my kids, for the company. And once you hit a couple of those and you get punched in the face and you're actually self-reflective, you start to change if you really want to get to the next level. A lot of people like say they want to, but don't. Dr. Calm, you refer to throughout the book. You've done a lot of therapy. You've done a lot of work on yourself. But like, what does it actually look like to reverse that type of behavior? So it was when it's got you so far. I wasn't nervous.

that I was, if I changed, it was going to all fall apart. And then I also realized through Dr. Com That I wasn't stupid, even though I was the third one or the dumb one or whatever. There was a moment in my life where I've taken over William Morris, my parents come out to visit. My dad's asking me questions about what's going on in business. He didn't really understand it anyway. And I give them the whole thing. And classic parents. my parents, and they said, well, who does all that? And I just turned to him and I'm like, well, it's definitely not my brother's speaking. It's definitely not Rob, right? And it was a classic moment. And so Dr. Com says to me at one point, you know, back in the 50s, people who were

successful in business were considered smart. And that like was an aha moment. Like, yeah, I mean, I'm not stupid. It's kind of happening and people are trusting me to invest in me. And then truly I did some psychedelics that also realized, you know, what did you do? MDMA. I've done ayahuasca. Right. And that also kind of like, you know, it kind of says to you the following.

Life is not, you know, we're a pimple on the ass of an aunt. And it's a big place. And you're just, and it got rid of the ego, which Dr. Com talked about a little bit. and I don't believe in legacy, any of those things that, for whatever reason, I had in the back of my head and it was operating based on. And so, yeah, that was a, I've now been married, four years dated this woman before that, my wife Stodd for, I think four years before that. And she's helped also that my relationship with her. it's been incredible. And so we've been on this great journey together.

Amazing. It was funny, actually, you were just talking about your therapist. I think he called you the most simple and the most complicated client he'd ever had, which I thought, yeah, that sounds about that. I want to kind of take it back to the beginning of your career because it's so important for people to understand this idea of making yourself useful before you have any power. And you came up, like, through the mailrooms, at CAA,

I wonder what that taught you about how power actually works. I started in the mailroom with CAA here. And Mike Ovitz was God. I mean, he was incredible. First of all, what he created was, I mean, he's on Mount Rush. I'm president. I mean, I'm unbelievable. Yeah, it's incredible.

Yeah. His relationship with Ron Meyer and Bill Haber also incredible. And they built this incredible business. And he had an idea about where the business was going. He made sure everybody stepped in line. And then I left there because I wanted to go to a startup to this company the inner talent with Bill Block. And I saw there, and you only get this when you experience it, you know, some dysfunction.

People were saying we're not going to sign television actors. And it was, you know, like the partners didn't play well together. That company sold itself and split up. And then you go to ICM, which the logo is, I cover myself. That's what I see. I'm unlike what Mike created, where it was perceived. And also at the early days, camaraderie. Comority, you know, and Mike and Ronnie created that environment.

And so then I go to ICM, I'm like, I don't want to do that. And then the moment hits. So you've gotten tastes of how good, bad, not. David Greenblatt, Rick Rosen, and Tom Strickland, I look at each other. We're like, we don't want to do this. And I get hit by the car. And, you know, you wiggle your fingers, you wiggle your toes. I'm sitting in the middle of Wilshire.

and I realized, even though I was young, you know, I thought I was on top of the world, invincible, and you have infinite time. It's not a dress rehearsal. Yeah. And so. Now's the time. It's 18 months to do the rehab, surgery rehab, plan. And then we go on my birthday, March 29, 1995.

And it was, we just incorporated, because we'd all been together a lot, our principals. And we just started working on them. And we screwed up a ton. But nobody noticed. No. Right. And the greatest thing happened. ICM when we left, made a big deal of it.

We, as my father, we were four schmucks, right? And they're like, it was a big deal. It was New York Times. It was like, we were nothing. Zero. We had no, I mean, nothing. You say that, but it was such a move. It was such a move in a town where it's like, you don't operate outside the big four

or five. It's like it was just a power. move. And by virtue, it was like, well, they really must know something that we don't if they're just deciding to do that. I promise you we didn't. That's a shame. But the great thing is, they treated us as if it was a coup d'etat. And that then, in and of itself, just started the ball rolling. And my father freaked out when it happened. What did you do? Because they were offering me a lot of money to stay and take the paper and take the contract. And I said, Dad, I think the environment's changing. I'm going to go do this.

And we just worked like dogs. We had nothing to sell. We didn't have a script. We were just signing clients. And the first script, Tom Strickler read it over the weekend, was cable guy. Nuts. First started out with Wilson Gray and Chris Farley at Paramount. And John Dolgin had a problem with it.

We couldn't do it. Then the project moved to Sony. And they put Jim Carrey in. he was coming off a big hit at New Line. He was coming off the mask. And that was the first $20 million actor. And it just started. And the only thing that was unbelievable there.

Tell me. So we were commissioning because we gave him the script, Brad Gray as a producer. I know he has passed away. And since you're the baby in the business and people beat up on you, he fucked us out of 37-5, 37,500. It took us months and months to get the money, only paid us half. It was just a great little lesson about, one, how to treat people that are starting out.

And two, okay, this is the way the game's going to be played. And if somebody's going to bully you, okay. I don't know when I'm going to get you. I don't know when. But you got them. You do seem to come back around. It seems to be a habit. Yeah.

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What do you think that you did early in your career that made powerful people notice you? I just worked really hard, and I wasn't scared if somebody wasn't calling me not to continue to call them. You know, I had this confluence of events. I had the show, so we're working hard,

and we're growing. Which is nuts. I mean, can you even believe that? We're growing in the business, and we get the basketball tickets on the floor. It's like the greatest billboard on Sunset Boulevard. The Lakers are doing what they're doing. And just things are just lining up luck,

the opportunity, we're there for it. Which just to contextualize because people haven't been able to read the book yet, you getting Lakers tickets was just a power move. We couldn't afford them. You didn't have the half a million in your brand new company to buy court side states. Phil Jackson shows up, Shaq shows up, they go on the run. We're the four right now.

to the bench, it was insane. It's insane. Yeah. And then the next iteration is Mark Wahlberg, the show, and my brother, he's in Congress, and then he becomes the chief of staff. Pretty major for President Obama. I mean, it just... Everything just fell into place.

And we were doing well. Yeah. Signing clients, growing, working really hard, being opportunistic. And yeah, shit happened. It just worked out. So then what do you expect? Because I'm interested in this. How do people show their potential?

Because you just say, I just worked really hard. And if people, I made calls. What are people doing now? Here's what I did. First of all, you have to have good clients. You have to have good taste and have to have good clients. And the people at the firm did, we had good clients that people wanted to be in business with them. So you just, we just kept on winning that way.

And people that were of our generation, CAA was of the guys were the guys, and that was their generation. You weren't getting a place at UTA or ICM or William Morris at the time. So we were the last resort. And we were like, this is going to be a big partnership. So people started coming. And so we just kept on growing because we were that place where people could come to. And it was perceived to be a place where it was collegial. It was people fighting for each other.

It was people having each other's backs. Because you created that culture. Yeah, we created. That's the culture because of the experience beforehand, seeing what ICM, seeing what the UTA. That just started building on itself. And for me personally, I read a ton articles, people I wanted to meet, just started calling them, getting meetings with them, talking to them, figuring out their business and figuring out how the jigsaw puzzle fit in. It got easier when Entourage got on the air that people took the calls. and sometimes it was entourage leading

and sometimes it was me leading. That actually surprised me. I didn't realize that that was so additive to you. I didn't think though at the beginning. No, no doubt. Like you were hiding from it and cringing fruit to the last episode. But it was interesting to me that,

because I thought the cult of Ari was already such a thing by the time the show rolled around. Mark Wahlberg says to me when it starts and I'm like, this is going to be fucking horrible. And to his credit, him and Steve Levinson say to me, this is going to be the best thing that ever had with you.

You're welcome. Yeah. You know, I've just started a show now. You're down with the kids, basically, because they're all starting it now. When it came out, it came out on Sunday nights. I'm married to my first wife. I didn't want her to see Mrs. Ari. You hadn't really told her. It just gave me such anxiety going into Monday.

So I said, fuck this, I'm not watching the show. And I've now, I'm all the way up to the Bas mitzvah. Oh, you are? Second season. Oh, that's good. And I'm cracking up. It's so good. How much of it was true?

I mean, I'm sure there were things that were fabricated, But somebody once said to me, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was Duncan Heath. He said, it's a light version of reality, babe. Well, there were some things like, you know, I think it's Sundance and Aquaman's happening. Harvey's there. And he doesn't have Aquaman because of situations because, you know, Jim's been put on the movie. And you're sitting there like, I've been in situations that we thought we had the offer, the offer. And you're playing.

It was mirroring to some degree. And that's anxiety. understand that. But ultimately it was really, really good. It's very clear that you've been like a rule breaker. I'm interested in how you distinguish being somebody who's a rule breaker with this rage from just being someone who's really difficult. Because clearly your reputation is so... It's a nightmare. No, but it's like you have such a good reputation and everybody at the end of the day still wanted to work with you. I don't think a client or an associate, a family member, ever had. had a question if we were going up the hill, either I was leading or I was on the side. If there was

a battle to happen and somebody was trying to screw us over, I don't mind being the first person in the heat. When you have leaders that would do that, you create an environment that people will be very loyal. How instrumental do you think that reputation has been in the success that you've had and the deals that you've been able to do? As you know in business and any good businessman, most good deals happen right in the middle. And whether it's a deal or you're trying to navigate somebody who's creative with his vision and a person financing it or marketing or doing it, you're trying to just get them to see each other's point of view.

The definition of me being a diplomat would be shocking for your audience to hear. But that's the job. That's the job. And that's the job whether you're an agent or whether you're owning TKO and navigating that or whether you're talking to investors, that's just the job. Trying to be, as funny as is me saying this, trying to be an ambassador and an advocate for yourself and or for your clients.

No, I feel like that's very clear that there was a level of consistency and reputation that you displayed over and over and over again, which made you a really reliable source, even if you were just reliably rageful, people understood what they would get. If I have an idea or a vision or requirement or something for a client, I'm relentless. Yeah, well, clearly. The calls.

I mean, there's a reason this book's called roll the calls. You are relentless. You still make that many calls. Yeah. There was a situation with a client. A show was getting moved early in our career. It was on King of Hill. And Greg Daniels, incredible client, the office, etc.

And I get back in the office at the weekend, I have our research people do all the work. around the show and we come up with this strategy instead of moving behind the Simpsons, we have to move it not on, I think it was Wednesday night, not to 7 o'clock after football. And I remember, and he's a dear friend, I destroyed Peter Turner's phone sheet to get that meeting, to make the presentation, to get that time slot because they were advocating a different time slot. It was horrible what I did. I mean, I just, I did not stop calling. I did not. That, that was on the border of stalking. And yeah, that's what you have to do. Do you think you still have to do that? Like, if that you do? Fuck yeah. So then what do you see? But I do it differently now.

I definitely do it differently now. But what about people coming up? Like, what do you say to people that are sitting there and then I want to be a successful as Ari Emanuel? Every Christmas, I take all my former assistants that are now agents to lunch and celebrate. So nice. And I give them, I've given them watches that they've made it. And they're really successful. They're really great at what they do. And we talk about horror stories.

And one of my former assistants that now an agent said, it's so tough. And I just turned to her. I said, shut the fuck up. What are you talking about? It's tough. And Bill Haber said this to me a woman. He goes, just keep on turning over the rocks. until you find what you need.

The job is to make the calls, not wallow and so hard, and just do the job. Your job is to be business creative. Find the answer to get, if you believe in this client, you believe in that project and you believe in that situation, get to a yes. That's the job. And don't worry about all the other things,

how hard it is, people are returning to do, you, shut up. Do the job. Do a job until you can't do it anymore until you get that yes. But, Ari, how much of that has changed? Because are you still finding those people? Yes. I have signed a new client. Yeah.

I believe in an idea for this client. That's what you're doing. And I'm pounding away on projects this big. That's a job. And I still do it today. Pick up the phone and don't stop. As much as it might be irritating. You have developed a very unique way of working.

Like, as you go through this book, you realize that there is a bunch of routines, that you are constantly in learning. You are always reading. You are meeting everybody. You take meetings with people that you find inspiring. You have all of these mentors around you. But you also work like an absolute dog. Like you work from morning to night.

I cannot still work out when you sleep. How many hours you sleep, it does not feel like a lot. I feel like you're a four or five hours sleeper. No, I'm not. Do you get longer now? I go 10 to about 3.30. Okay, that's a whole five. I'm 65, so I get up.

and I do what I do. And then I'll up at 4.30, 5 o'clock. Okay. And then the workout, the thing. But that's what I want to talk about. You still have the crazy routine? Yes. Do you think that that is part of your system

that has obviously like increased your output? I think it's very important to have routine. I have the voice like everybody else is like, go back to bed. I don't listen to that voice. I make sure I don't listen to that voice. What do you do? I just get my ass up.

as much as sometimes I'm exhausted, listening to that voice, you will not win. And a lot of people don't want to win, so they listen to the voice and I'll work out tomorrow. That phrase, or I'll do this tomorrow. I don't do that. I made a deal, right? I'm advocating for myself. There's a contract with myself. I do the job.

And then there's other things, you know, I don't eat. Love a fast. Today was a 24-hour fast day after the workout. the ice bath, all those things so that you have the ability to work and kind of fight the voice in your head. But that routine permits this whole other process. And I read articles, somebody I find interesting in an article, get me the journalist, get me the person in the article. I make the call. I text them. I, in this day and age, can get to anybody. I get to them. I have the conversation and figure out how it kind of fits into my jigsawp hustle in my life.

And is that always work related or is it sometimes just for pleasure? Just life. Just life. A perfect example in the book. I read the article about Mark Andreessen, a dear friend. Yes. He does the same thing that I do in his own way. He meets people.

We start talking. I started this company, Rain. I say, I want you to invest. You asked him for $5 million. He says, I'm going to do this with Egon Dervyn and Nikesh, who was at the time working for Google. I then meet Egon. So this is kind of how it all starts happening.

Egon, who's one of the best business minds I've ever. I mean, the guys... He's like a genius. I don't like using that word, but when it comes to financially structuring and that... And also seeing a vision of where businesses are going, there's nobody better in the world. And he bought a company that he sold to Microsoft

that made his career. Skype. Incredible. Nobody sought the way he saw it. Sold it for $6 or $7 billion to them. It was what's at before, and Microsoft shut it down. He then calls me.

me. So it starts with Mark Andreessen. Egan then calls me and says, Teddy Forsman had gotten sick and passed away, who I knew very well. And he says, I want to buy you and I want to go after together IMG, because here's where I see the world going. And I had seen the same thing. And I had been out there trying to raise money. And I said to him, you're never going to do this. PE firms never going to do this. He goes, give me three weeks. Let me see your numbers. And that's just how I built my life. Some people say it's curiosity. I try and change it a little bit because I don't like that word and I'm trying to create a new word for it. The new word I'm trying to create for it is this thing called, because I'm still, I feel like a child, wonder. I wonder about these things

and I just read them, whether it be health or investing or relationships. And that's what I do. You act on your wonder. And that's the big difference because I think a lot of people are highly curious. Well, that's that voice in your head. Yeah, but you've managed to control it. Don't make that call. It's going to be embarrassing. Are they going to take my call? No, they're not going to take your call the first time, if you've only done it once.

Figure out how to get to them. But you did this before you were successful. You would badger and badger and badger and you'd call and call. I don't know when Andreessen Horowitz started, but he was on the cover of Fortune or Forbes. You just phoned him out? Just phoned him up. How much of success do you think is talent and how much is having just a higher tolerance for rejection, repetition, the pressure, the discomfort, all the things that you think's

a bit about. Yeah. You think you're going to do it and not being smart? You have to be smart and you have to beat all those other attributes. Your relationships have become so much a part of your reputation because this this kind of thirst for knowledge, the curiosity, the serendipity, the wonder, as you call it, has kind of meant that people have trusted you, they've supported you, they've backed deals that you've wanted to do. What did you understand? Did you understand? early about cultivating professional relationships that you think everybody should know. I just want to meet people that I found interesting. But it wasn't just interest because you were also like, they're going to be helpful to me.

There was business opportunity in there. So I did it. And then that just, you don't know what the end is. Certain people won't even get to the beginning. And it takes work. Those relationships take work. You send articles. You have a conversation, something you don't understand that they think they might.

You call them. There's no reason for it. You're just engaged in conversations. you're wondering about stuff and you're talking. And then that leads to other things. You're becoming useful to those people. Yeah. And they're useful to me. And I'm in a business, the good thing is I'm in a business that they're all like and are interested in. So there's a lot to that sauce. Time is one of those things. Every founder gets very serious about protecting. You learn what can be automated, what can be delegated, and where your attention actually needs to grow.

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I like to talk to you about your leadership style and culture because it's something that comes up around you time and jump again. Guys, what search now? I have a very specific culture actually and I think again, I learned it from all the other places that I'm. being. You know, as an employee, you always look around and you see like, why the fuck am I doing all this in this person? So what did you learn from Duncan? Now, I'm reversing this interview now. Let me tell you what, one of my big principles is that so much of your culture will be dictated

by who you hire, who you fire and what you tolerate. And I make those decisions every day. So I don't think there's any big secret. It's in the decisions that I make every day. If I tolerate a certain behavior, it's not doing that person a favor. It's what it says to the rest of my fucking team. It's just a zero tolerance. And so in those decisions of who I bring in, I mean, California is forget about it. But what you can do internally is look at how you promote people. I try to make really meaningful decisions about that. Your decisions are a reflection of who you are as a leader, whether that be employees,

how you're going to run the company, your relationships. That's just an indication of who you are as a person. And once people see in the book, even though a lot of people ask me about that, Taylor Swift. I wish I could have sold her on William Moore. She liked IMG. And, you know, she was a massive star. And I fucked that up that I couldn't, I couldn't sell her on and advocate for the rest of the organization. But not signing her is an indication like, here's what I said I'm going to do. And I'm going to, we're going to live by that, is an indication of your leadership. What you say to people that offend you in the world talks about your leadership style and

who you are as a person. You're saying what I live by, who you're in business with and who you're not in business with and how you handle situations is an indication for your employees, I got good parents. I got parents that I respect. And that's, that then creates its own culture. What does somebody need to do to succeed as a colleague or an employee of yours? Well, I'm in at 7.38 o'clock and you can always get me on the phone. I turn it off at 8.30. They know how I am with my family. They need me to do something. I do that next call. They get it. I pass down clients and I stay involved in clients, but I let them try and lead. All those things, if people do the same, they'll be good associates.

Do you require people to be in person with you? I want people to be in the office. I think that's important for a culture of creativity, which we are. We just opened up this whole new office. I got really emotional. I heard. So it blew my mind. And I think it's important to teach the younger generation to be in the office so we create the team i didn't they created an incredible environment giving people credit when it's their credit and that just creates an environment where people think that they have a voice great right and that they one day can be the people running the firm i don't want to be that guy that sits around forever at the same company and you know this company is theirs that's very clear

i mean just to contextualize it because what you've built is so massive You started Endeavour with three other agents and very little money. You then merged with William Morris. You acquired IMG and UFC. You took the company public. You also then delisted it. Well, we didn't go public at the beginning. We understand that.

But then you did. Yes, yes, yes, yes. You first didn't. Then you did. Yeah. In the middle of COVID. We all watched it. We saw you.

And then you've been building Mari. Am I saying that right? Yeah. You've taken a company through every stage imaginable. And I wonder what I found. needs to understand about taking companies through different stages. You know, there's a graph, and certain people think there's, it's a straight line up for success. I don't know what you feel.

I don't feel that. It's up, down all around. That's success. If you're going to start a company and you've started one, you better be ready to eat glass. And it is a bitch. And not a lot of people want that. To eat glass. Yeah, to eat glass and to make it and go through.

All the good, bad shit that it takes to be successful. It's brutal. Brutal. There is a tipping point. I don't know if it was Ron Meyer. Michael would say it to me. You know, at that year 7 to 10, you start to begin the hockey stitch. And for us at Endeavour, that was the case too.

So 2005, 2006 started to really go. But it takes so much longer than anyone thinks. Oh, yeah. And if you knew it, I'm not sure you would start it. For some other reason, I'm 65 now, and I just started Mari, and I'm at it again. But I love it. What do you think causes somebody who's extremely talented to fail within one of your companies? Where do people go wrong?

Eager. Credit. Eager. People want to take too much credit. Or Schaun Freud. Like they don't want, you know, they don't want you to get credit. And it just eats them up inside. They don't change themselves.

because every 10 years in your marriage, in your life, you're reflecting, do I like this person? Do I like that person that's with me? And you have to, if you want to stay, you have to adapt. It's one of the things my wife has taught me. You just have to grow and continue to grow. You can't stay that guy with rage. You can't stay that guy that's insecure. You have to keep on growing.

You're somebody that has made an entire career out of spotting people's potential. out of seeing perhaps what somebody else wouldn't necessarily see. Are you talking now in the talent business? Yes, it's in the talent business. But also you've done that with executives, right? You've decided that this person is going to move from an assistant to an agent,

that this person has something special in them. And I wonder what tells you that people have the potential to become exceptional. Can I ask you a question? So when you're dyslexic, do you think one of your really good talents is EQ? I do. A million percent.

So in the book, I'm on the plane. I'm flying back from New York. In first class, it was two seats, one seat, two seats. And I'm reading all my articles to just learn about the world and see who I'm going to call. And the guy next to me is typing away. Like crazy. And I'm reading for three hours, my scripts, my articles, I'm done reading.

And this dude is typing away. I couldn't take it anymore. I just couldn't take it. I was wondering, is this guy? So I get up. I go to the guy at the window sitting next. So I'm here and there's a gentleman here typing away. And I said to the guy, Duano, get up, sit my seats.

He goes, excuse me? I said, what do you fucking understand? Get up and sit in my seat. I would know if got out of that fucking seat. So he did. And I go sit down and this, and this guy is typing away. And I finally crossed my legs like this. I lean over to him.

What the F are you doing? And that was Mark Shapiro. Oh, I love Mark. I love him so much. And that relationship. You became such good friends because that's what you're saying in the book. He's been the president of TKO. Mari is Mark and Ari.

And we've had an incredible relationship. He's like the younger brother I've never had. And it's just been an incredible. And that's just seeing somebody getting to know him, realizing his potential, realizing what we could do together, and going for it, and that's been my life. Is there a quality that you consistently find in successful people? Yeah, they work really hard.

They're curious, wonder, and they care about winning. Yeah, it was funny because you said in the book that you look for people that are consistently consistent. Yeah. And I loved that. Yeah. I don't have to worry ever with the people that I'm, I back. I don't know all the employees anymore because I haven't hired them, but the people that I'm involved with. They work hard, they're consistent, they have a routine, they're willing to learn and adapt,

they're willing to take criticism. At this point in your life, you've said a couple of times, I'm 65. You're clearly at like some, you know, other stage in your mind. You look happy about it. I am. If I was you, I'd be quite happy with myself too. I'm curious to understand, like, what you've learned and what you think all the success is for. Because nobody needs to write a book.

Writing a book is really, really hard. It took 10 years. I mean, the rumors are true because I heard about this. I mean, that's insane. Well, it was supposed to. It was supposed to be, no, no, no, no. It was supposed to be, first of all, the guy that wrote the book with me, this guy, JR, is a beautiful person. My publisher's husband.

He's a beautiful, beautiful human being. It was supposed to be when we went public the first time, which we didn't go. And so we just kept on going. And it wasn't easy. I was nervous. But he was just incredible. And I guess I would say to you is, would you rather have a life of meaning or a life of pleasure? And for me, a life of meaning is pleasure.

That's why I continue to do it. My parents taught me they try and even in the smallest way make the world a better place. I have four beautiful kids and with my ex who did a great job with me. we scored four touchdowns and I'm now in a beautiful place and a beautiful marriage and I'm doing what I want to do and I'm still interested

and still involved and still curious, so wondering. Ari, you say the most beautiful thing in the book what I thought was like the most beautiful line for me and it's when you meet Mark Bradford and you said the artist Mark Bradford and you said it was like a bit of a turning point for you.

You said in the center of your chest I feel this truth. It's not the art you make. It's the artistic attitude you bring to whatever you whether it's a mural or a movie deal, whatever you do should be approached as art. I represent incredible creators, like Mark Bradford, who's a friend now, great artists and advocated for him.

But I think what agents do is an art form. And I said, you have to be as creative in business as your artist is, writer, director, actor, podcast, or whatever. You have to be, the creative business mind for them. And I take that seriously. And I think my associates take that seriously. And if you can do that, you're as much of an artist making a deal, creating an opportunity as the artist is creating it. Because without you, it doesn't work. That is your artistry,

creating the opportunity for the person that you have decided to give part of your life to. And that's what I do. When you finally stop rolling the course, what do you hope they all add up to? It's a life of meaning. And that I made a difference. My kids can look up to me. And that I continue to be, I'm not always happy, but I'm continuing satisfied.

I don't even know what the fucking happy means. You know, I don't know what that means. If you're a really successful person, fuck if you're always happy. You're not, I'm satisfied a lot. And I'm happy a lot, but that I'm satisfied. What do you still aspire to be or to become? I don't think like that.

Because I just, I'm just doing what I want to do. I learn from what I've done. But I'm not looking like, oh, I got to be there. Because that's like ego, legacy, all those things that I really think are just bullshit. Sorry. Don't tell you, sorry. It's the best answer. It's a best answer.

All right, rapid fire. Fastest way to lose your trust. Lie about what you've done. What's more dangerous in a leader, ego or insecurity? Are they different? Three things successful people do every day. They read a lot. They pay attention to what's around them and have meaningful relationships.

Is there a book that's changed your life? Yeah, because this book was written by JR. When I read the Agassi book, because he wrote that, I realized this is the man for my life. And he's definitely changed my life. Ari Emanuel, thank you so much. Thank you. You are wonderful.

Thank you so much. I'm so grateful to work. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emagreed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK Sublime.

Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shorts. Angela Paluso is our Booker, original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetek and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Holman, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my team's at the lead company and WME.

Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Miko, Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emagre. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed.

Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.m-D-Me.