Aspire with Emma Grede - Aspire Insights: How to Speak So People Will Listen (with Communication Expert Jefferson Fisher)

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

Emma Grede sits down with trial-lawyer-turned–viral communication coach Jefferson Fisher—author of the New York Times bestseller The Next Conversation—to unpack the single skill that drives every success: how you speak. Together they explore why social-media overload is eroding real dialogue, then trade real-world fixes that work from the boardroom to the dinner table. Jefferson explains how a smile and an open question transform first impressions, why cutting “sorry,” “just,” and other verbal fluff instantly boosts authority, and how flipping your “no” (lead with it, end with gratitude) sets healthy boundaries without guilt. Emma probes the toughest moments—family conflicts, workplace clashes, digital misreads—and Jefferson delivers tools such as framing conversations around a shared goal, letting your breath be the first “word,” and wielding strategic silence so people hear their own tone. Brimming with memorable metaphors (be a “well,” not a waterfall, in email) and Emma’s candid reflections on her own communication wins and misses, this episode hands you the script—and the mindset—to make your very next conversation resonate. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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share it with you. Start with yourself. My debut book is available now. Visit emigre.com to purchase the book, also available on Amazon, your favorite audio platforms and all good bookshops. Welcome back to The Aspire podcast. I cannot wait for today's conversation. We're chatting with Jefferson Fisher, a trial lawyer and one of the leading voices on communication and an expert in mastering how we speak. His latest book, The Next Conversation, Argue Less, Talk More, which is a New York Times bestseller, provides a framework for transforming your life and your relationships by improving your next conversation. Solid communication skills are one of the things that I believe is absolutely necessary to be successful in your life, whether you're climbing the ladder

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when it comes to your small business insurance. Thank you. One size, absolutely does not fit all. Get a quote or find an agent today at thehartford.com slash small business. Welcome to Aspire, Jefferson. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to have you.

Honestly, really happy to have you here today. This is one of my favorite subjects ever, communication, and I cannot wait to discuss with you. Me too, Emma. I'm excited. So I want to talk to you a little bit about first impressions because it's something that I have been obsessed with my whole life. I spent the early part of my career having to cold call a hell of a lot.

And I always used to wish that I wasn't over the phone, I could see people in person because I was like, I'm so good at first impressions in person. On the phone, it's much harder. But talk to me a little bit about, because it feels like there's an art to making a good first impression. Do you agree? I do agree. There's this ability to make somebody feel very warm, very quickly.

We look to the people with calm energy. And so when you can make somebody feel warm that is wanted, interested, you're going to have a better first impression. Now, that doesn't mean you're going to have to be your best friend forever. but it's just giving them their moment in that time. There's a difference between me saying hi to you, then asking you a question versus me saying hi and then looking for the next person to talk to.

You're giving that present moment with them when a lot of times we don't give that. If you want to have a very good first impression, you want to make sure you're smiling as much as you can, and the more you ask about them, the better it's going to go. And you don't want to ask clothes into questions. Like, did you have a good time? It's just going to have them yes or no.

You can't do anything. Open it up, beginning with what or a how or a win or a where. I love that you say calmness because you're incredibly calm. I'm not calm, but I feel like I'm warm. Do you feel like that what is it about the calmness that like adds to that openness and the ease of the first impression? There's a difference between somebody who comes into, let's say, in the business context, who's always almost erratic and very emotional. They're people that you typically can't look to when things go bad. And you think of somebody who's kind of the captain of the ship. They're the ones that no matter what the battle is raging, they're the ones that have

the composure. So the calmness gives sense of security. There's a reason why you like being at your grandmother's house because everything is slow. Everything is calm. Everything is, oh, it's going to be okay. There's always another end to it rather than just focusing on the present moment is the worst of all time. So giving that calm energy is a great way to lead with control. Oh, I love that. And the eye contact. Like it's very, it's very clear to me that you do those two things exceptionally well. It's like you're calm and you have excellent eye contact, which I talk to my kids about all the time. I'm like, say hello, ask a question, have good eye contact. Like to me, it feels like the absolute basics. But if you don't do that, like can you train yourself into it? You can. So a lot of the times with

eye contact, for example, if you're always staring at somebody's eyes, especially when you're talking, it can be a little unnervings for some people. So the trick is you can look all over the place if you want. You can start thinking about it. But as long as I catch your eyes at the end of what I say, It feels as if we've had eye contact the whole time. It's a lot easier to get eye contact when somebody else is doing the talking, much harder when you're the one because you're trying to think of what to say at the same time. So we'll look off to think of our thoughts. As long as you catch their eyes right at the tail end, they won't notice.

That's a really good tip because it can feel a bit intense, like having continuous eye contact with someone, especially in a professional situation. Like you might feel like it's a little bit like too much. Exactly. Yeah. But just catching them at the end you say, like makes them understand. you're listening, like you're there. You got it.

It can even be a little creepy if you're like, did you have a good time with this party? I really had a great time. Did you have a good time? Do you have a dessert? And all I'm doing is just staring in your eyes. And you're like, I don't know if I want to talk to this person. But yeah, if you just, you end with the eye contact. It's going to make a little bit of a connection in the right way.

How important is small talk for connection? Because when you don't know someone and you're doing that like first type of meeting, like is it important to have like good chat, like good small talk? Yeah, small talk is severely underrated. I think when you are able to have that little bit of a banter with someone, even in the small moments. I love a banter. That's such an English word to say. You know what?

I've been working on my English words. You've been watching Love Island or something. That's exactly what I've been watching. To have these little moments where you can lean over to somebody and say something. Now, that's different than making small talk. Let's say if you're at a networking event or anything like that, when it comes to small talk, you want to focus on the things, not that happened in the past, but things that. you're looking forward to. When you can ask questions about the doing instead of, did you have a good

weekend? Are you having a good time at this party? That's yes or no, you can't do anything. A lot of times you ask about the past, people feel the judgment of having to say something exciting. Oh. Like they need to come up with something good. Give me an example of that. So you're like, say something that's like about like what's about to happen. Right. Versus. So if I were to ask you, do you have a good weekend or what did you do this weekend? A lot of people say, oh, nothing. Because they're feeling like I didn't do anything important enough to share. Right. But if you say, what are you excited about this weekend? What are you looking forward to? What are y'all doing this weekend? Then it, then the world is the oyster. Then they can talk about anything that they're

excited about looking forward to, even if they don't end up doing it. It's giving them something to get excited about. I really love that. One of the things that I love that you talk about so much is you say confidence is not an act. It's an outcome. And I honestly love that so much. But will you just, really want you to explain what it means because to me, being a confident communicator, I feel like that's been so integral to my life, to like my business journey, even in the beginning, you know, when I was starting out, the idea that I could turn up to a new business meeting and confidently, like, take that room. I just would love for you to talk about exactly what you mean by that. And also to try and give me like some tips if perhaps you're not so confident. Like, how do you get

there? Yeah. The idea that most people have in their default is that, I need to have confidence before I say it. I'm working up the confidence, the courage to say this. That's not it. It's the opposite. Confidence is what you get after you say the thing. It is the consequence. It is the reward. It is the effect of doing the assertive thing. So what I teach is confidence is as assertive does. So if I were to just tell you, I want you to be, I need you to be very scared right now. There's no way you could just do that. I'd say, I need you be angry at me. I could do that. You could probably do that. But, but. But it comes from something.

So same thing. You're using your assertive voice and being on the other side of it, saying what you needed to say brings confidence. And in turn, you then feel more confident to say more assertive thing. So my guess is how you feel confident going into something is because you've been there before. There's always that first time for something. But if you want to sound more assertive in any given situation, number one, you want to

eliminate the over apologies. That's where you say, I'm sorry in every other sentence. You say, hey, I'm so sorry, real quick. or you need a reply to an email. So sorry, I'm just getting back to you. You miss that text. Heaven forbid, you have priorities. You know, heaven forbid, you're dealing something with your kids.

Whenever you eliminate the over apologies, it's that idea of your self-worth is not tied to how little of an inconvenience. You can be with someone. Second of all, if you want to have more assertive voice, is to stop undercutting your words as, I hate to bother you, but, or I could be wrong about this, or you probably know better than me. Oh.

Yeah, by the way, nobody thinks, if someone says, I could be wrong about this. They never think they're wrong. Yes, this I have true. Yeah, it's just a lead-in. But it's you cutting your worth. If I say, I hate to bother you, but well, now we've just, the other person is going to go, oh, you're not bothering me. It's the same thing with this is probably going to be a dumb question. They go, no, no, no, no, no, there's no such a dumb question. Oh, really? Is it not? And then all they think is, this is such a dumb question. So anytime you eliminate that from your words, you're not going to need it. The last being the adverbs, when you always say just or so

or literally, essentially. Have you ever? heard this before a conversation. And when somebody goes, so basically, uh, and they go into it. I'm feeling actually like less of a confident communicator all of a sudden. But it is, it's so easy to like use those type of words. They're fluff. Yeah. They're fluff. They're just add. Yeah. Additions. Now, you now. Exactly. And it's just me and you, no problem. If we're in just, um, uh, casual conversation. But if you need to be assertive in a meeting, it's best not to lead with the actually so just, I mean, you can hear the difference of, I, I just wanted to check. I, I just wanted to in with you versus the I wanted to check in with you.

What is the practice needed to like stay in that place, you know, where you don't fall back into these old habits, where you can learn that confidence and practice it? Well, nowadays we have really great accountability partners. One being AI, I mean, there are ways that you can actually, like I have an AI that people are used to put in their emails or text and it eliminates the fluff. Lots of different AIs that do that to help you keep assertive with that. Another would be you have accountability partner who actually, hey, if I say like, just give me a hand. Yeah.

Remind me. Cut that out. But it's really the basis of an M is that you want to have the discipline to just do one thing, one at a time. Don't try and take all the tips, change all your communication. I just want to focus on one little thing and apply it and then stay with. Oh, I love that. I always talk about this idea of no being a complete sentence. I personally, again, don't have a problem saying no.

Yeah. But it can be, to me, it's one of the things. that people struggle with the absolute most. Like it's just so hard. So it can be painful for some people. Yeah. What do you think about? How do you get around?

Because again, I have this obsession with always wanting to be polite, not wanting to hurt somebody's feelings. So how do you say no, but still have empathy and still have respect for someone? Let's say you've invited me to something, which this would never happen. But let's say I need to say no to it, all right? there is a right way and a wrong way. Typically, we begin with the gratitude and we lead in with the no. So we will say, oh, my goodness, that sounds so wonderful.

Thank you so much for inviting me. Oh, my goodness, this is going to be wonderful, but I can't. And we end with the no, and it feels very hesitant. We feel like we have to end with the no. We have to fluff it. Like you've heard this compliment sandwich. Absolutely. Yeah, it's really, compliment sandwich is a little hard to chew.

and even harder to swallow. It's kind of this idea that we feel we have to make you feel really good before we give the bad news. And in practice, it's the reverse effect. You feel like, okay, why did you, you didn't even mean all the other stuff. Instead, flip it. I want you to begin with the no and then end with the gratitude. So this is me saying, I can't.

I know it's going to be a wonderful time. I hope it's fantastic. As long as you say the know first, the easier it is to get out, and you don't have the word but in there. Like, I love you, but this is, if I said, this is a wonderful podcast, this is great. Having said that. But, and then, I mean, it just takes away from it. So when you start with the no, that's a whole lot better.

And when it comes to boundaries, you want to eliminate the justifications. That's why we say no is a complete sentence. When you feel like you have to justify everything, then it begins a whole lot harder and then it starts to live in your own head and free. Is it harder to say no when things are really serious? Like when somebody is asking you something that, that maybe you should do or you should, you know, it's like if you have to give to a non-profit or if there's like a real good reason for you to have to do something.

Like it changes things a little bit, right? There's one thing saying no to a party. There's another thing saying no to perhaps something that you should do and you just don't have time for it. Or do you think it's exactly the same? I think it's the same. You just need to say things a little bit differently. So where if it's just a little coffee invitation, you can say,

I can't make it today. Thank you so much. I hope it's a great time. Same thing, but I would just tweak the word instead of the I can't make it. Let's say somebody's trying to ask you for money in some way. It's okay. Yeah. You know who you are.

Yeah. It's okay to say that you can't. It's okay to say that I have made it a priority or our priority is to give to X causes or I promise myself. Whenever you make promises to your, yourself, people don't tend to argue with them. That is true. I also think it's about getting comfortable with the consequences, right?

Because some people feel immediately uncomfortable with the consequences. Like, how do you even get to that point where you're like, I'm fine with that? Yeah. Once you realize that they're going to live, it's going to be a whole lot better. I mean, if you always have the fear of disappointing people, what you're really doing is feeling their feelings for them. you are trying to say, I am so essential to your well-being. I am so critical to you living that you can't possibly bear this bad news I'm going to give you.

You're just not believing that they're emotionally resilient. And so when you can say, I'm telling you this because I'm your friend, don't do that. I mean, there's a whole lot difference there and being able to just live with the idea they're going to be okay. They're going to be okay. Also, that piece, yes, that they're not emotionally resilient or they just don't have other options. Because the reality is half the time when you're saying no to someone, there's other options. They're just going to circle off and ask the next person on the list, right? It's like the earth doesn't center around you.

It's just sometimes being like, say the no, the person's going to find another option. It's pretty simple. Yes. And the quicker you get to know, the more of a relief it is. Yeah. The longer you wait on the no, you just give a maybe, let me think about it. You're still going to be thinking about it. I'm just going to live in your head.

I want to talk to you a little bit about difficult conversations because this everybody has. I mean, I feel like in my work life, I, you know, I have to have difficult conversations with people pretty consistently. Where I would struggle is having conversations with people that I love. So how do you even broach having the really hard conversations with someone? And is there, you know, is there a very different way that you think about the really? hard stuff, like when it matters. Yes, and there is. First thing you want to do is think of the end of it. Don't start with the beginning. Start with the end of it. Like what is, what's the outcome I want to have? What's the goal? What's the ultimate ask? Too many people wait until they're talking to figure out

what they want to say. Yeah. And that creates a big problem because it leads the other person guessing you're trying to lay in the plane and they're trying to start budding in. You're going, no, no, no, that's not it. Wait, wait, wait, wait. And you don't even know where you want to go. Often we just don't know how we want to land the plane. So number one, you want to end when you want to begin with what the outcome is going to be. So have that in your mind before you even start the conversation. What is the ultimate ask? Don't be thinking of that smart little comment, that little zinger you're going to throw in, how you're really going to, while you're brushing your teeth, you're going, oh, that's a good point. I don't want to say this. You want to focus on what's the ultimate ask going into it. It's going

to make it a whole lot better for you. Do you have an example of like a difficult conversation you've had to have and how you've handled it. Yeah, I had to let somebody go. It's always a nightmare to let someone. Yeah, it's not a good feeling. And there's some people, though, it's a relief to let them go. I mean, because you know your team's going to get better. The drama's going to be reduced. You're going to, you have to prune the tree to make it grow. So this is what happened. I had to let somebody go in the law firm where I see a lot of people mess up and firing someone is they begin with the kindness and say something like, so Emma, how are you doing? Are you good? How's your family? It's you're good. Have you seen the weather outside? It's crazy, right? Yeah, I know.

So listen. And that's right there. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. The so listen. It just, they're waiting for that hammer to drop. So instead, what you want to do is lead with the hard. And it can sound just like this. Let's say I need to let you go, heaven forbid. And I sat down and we sat down and I said, I said, Emma, I got bad news. And you're going to kind of, and I'll give you a pause. Give you four seconds, three seconds. You're going to kind of go, you're like, all right, you allow you the ready yourself. And then I'll say, I got to let you go.

You've been wonderful. See, now I'm leading with the compliments. You've been wonderful part of the team. We've really enjoyed having you. I look forward to where your career is going to go. It's just not going to be here. Like, anytime you lead with the small talk of, how's your family, how's it going? So listen, they hold it against you because it means everything that you said before wasn't sincere.

Yeah. Now they don't want to connect with you because now you're inauthentic. But when I can just say this is going to be a difficult conversation. So let's say it's just something sensitive, something that you're in trouble and I need to talk to you. This is going to be a difficult conversation. This isn't going to be a fun conversation. This is going to be hard to talk about. This might come as a shock to you.

Anything that I can do to just prep you, like my team, if they call, first thing, if something's wrong, say, you're not going to like this. That's the first thing out of their mouth. I go, okay. That's every call. I get it all day. That's every cool. No one ever calls me a good news. And what happens is we always think that the worst possible outcome. Totally. So then it's oftentimes not as bad. And then when they tell it, you're like, oh, that's, that's it. Yeah, I can deal with that. Yeah, I can, I can deal with that. It feels like preparedness has a lot to do with it because you're very, very thoughtful with your words. Do you do, like, do you think ahead of difficult conversations or any conversations like you ought to like have

practice first? I don't find the practicing is helpful because it means... How do you be so precise with the words, though? It's your body. Your body is what's controlling it. The first rule would be let your breath be the first word that you say. Oh, that's a great tip. Let your breath be the first word. So you're like, take a conscious breath. Yes. It's called a conversational breath and it uses the advantages of what they call a physiological sigh. So we're going to go in through our nose, like three seconds, then one more to top through your nose. It's a double inhale, then relax. What's the other person doing while we're breathing like this? Well, it's really quick. You're never going to know. So, okay, fine. For example, I've been doing it now. And you just never

know. No, I did not. Yeah. And so you do it, you do it when somebody's saying something that you don't like. And what's that, like, what is actually happening during that conversational breath? So it's like a sigh. If you ever been like, and you're like, okay, now you can't do that in regular conversation, but it's the same effect. and what is doing is calming your nervous system. It's like taking the temperature down. Yeah, more importantly, what is telling your body is, this does not threaten me.

So whatever they tell me, if it's something negative, if there's something hectic and chaotic, and you can use your breath before either you say it or while somebody is talking, it is just queuing you in to your body saying, this does not threaten me. And whenever you do that, because a lot of times we hold our breath, Emma,

that's what we do. I find myself doing that all the time. It's really easy to do. Sometimes I feel like I've done that for the full day. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, you're holding that on. Like, in the car and I'm like, like, unbelievable.

Or like really shallow breathing. Or I hold my breath while I email. Yes. You know, I'm like, oh. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And what does, it just, it just tweaks you up. Yeah. I mean, that's why sometimes we yell. It's just excelling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody.

It happens, though, right? Of course it does. It's like a ball inside. So you just have to remember. You just have to remember. member to breathe. Well, there's a lot of things to keep in mind, but breath is the first go to because if you have your breath in line, a lot of things go well. So if you were to say something ugly to me, we can talk about those concepts. It's letting it have time. The more time I can

add distance for us to let not just my body regulate, like your body. Exactly. Because all of a sudden you're like, you're in that situation where now I've got to think about what I just said. You took a breath. So now I'm like, what did I? Well, actually. did I just say. It allows just for that moment your analytical side, that logical side, to stay at the forefront, rather than getting wrap up into the emotion of trying to

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While supplies last, ends June 30th. terms at aka.m.s slash college PC. I want to talk to you about like workplace disagreements because I think difficult conversations with family, with friends is one thing. When you're in a professional environment and you have to have a disagreement and let's say like you really think you're right, right? You've got a issue, a colleague or your boss, but you can't go and have the conversation

as you would maybe ordinarily with a friend. What is the proper way to handle those type of disagreements? There's some things that come to mind. One is this idea of frames. And anybody listening right now can apply a frame to every conversation, whether it's the workplace, the boardroom, the living room, whatever one. And this is how you do it. Number one, you want to tell the person what you want to talk about. Number two, you want to tell them how you want to feel or walk away from that conversation. That's adding the goal into it. Number three, you get their buy-in into the frame. So let's say, I need to address some comments you made yesterday, Emma. It would sound like this.

Number one, I talked to you. I said, Emma, I need to talk to you about some comments that you made at yesterday's meeting. I want to walk away from that conversation with the understanding of knowing that's not going to happen again. Oh. Sound good? Oh. And like you, now you have it. Now you know exactly where you're going in that conversation. It could be about anything, though.

Hey, I'd like to talk with you about our meeting tomorrow and make sure that we're aligned on expectations for the budget network. Perfect. They're going to say, great. Instead of the, hey, you got five minutes? which is never five minutes. And also it depends. Are you trying to tell me a story? Or are you trying to give me something that I need right now? Because right now I'm focused on this email that I'm working on. So there's a lot of different ways of using that frame. Two, I want you to think of when you need to disagree with someone, especially in front of other people, but in any conversation, instead of the, I disagree. I don't agree.

That's going to make them very defensive because they're going to go, no, that's mine. You need to have my idea. Most people love ideas. They just love theirs the best. 100%. And so when you're able to say, instead of I disagree, tweak that to say, I see things differently. Talk a matter of perspectives, not in points. So you might be making a great point. What you need to do is just talk about perspective. I see it differently. I have another take. I have a different perspective. Whenever you can say that they're not going to get defensive. So it's going to allow them to do that. Third is you can prime the conversation with something like, I'm telling you this because. Now you can use this in a Romantic setting.

I'm telling you this because I love you. I'm telling you this because you're my friend versus that. Instead of that, hey, I love you, but. Yes. See, hear the difference. Yeah, I totally hear the difference. Same thing in the workplace. I'm telling you this because I know you value transparency.

I'm telling you this because I know we're all headed to the same goal. Yeah. And we all support each other. I'm telling you this because I want to leave this meeting. with alignment. Perfect. There you go. Just like that. I'll give you another thing that I really like for the workplace. Anybody who's ever can relate to this of throwing out an idea around a boardroom and somebody immediately tries to cut it down, it's because they think their idea's the best. They want. They're very protective of their ideas. And so they like the poke holes in yours because it's

not theirs. Of course. But when you say I have 20% of an idea, use percentages. So I have 20% of an idea. I need your help with the other 80%. And now that's a good. That's a good one. Now you create this collaboration. Now everybody's, now they feel it like a challenge to build to the 80%. Yeah, because there's like a sense of ownership in the rest of the idea. Now they feel like they're building it. All right.

So what happens then? Because I'm just going to keep picking on this. What if you have to prove your case? Like what happens when nobody's with you in the room and you feel very, very strong to the point of like, you know, emotionally strong in an idea? What do you do? Like how do you create? It's not so much an argument, but when like the room is against you, like, how do you bring people around when it's like, I know I'm right about this thing?

So I would, here's what my thought is. Number one, I would say out loud, I know you're against me on this. Because what happens is when we make a statement, people love to correct us. Right. They love to correct us. So what they're actually thinking is when you say, no, no, I'm not against you. That's all they're going to do, right? Exactly. You got it. If you're saying it, they correct you. So there's a difference between this idea. I don't want you to take this the wrong way. That guarantees they're going to take it the wrong way. But if I say, you're probably going to take this the wrong way, they're going to go, no, no, no.

So you lead with the, I know you're all against me on this. Automatically, everybody's going to go, no, we're not in their head. And then two, you're going to lead with the goal of whatever you're asking for, of why, not their point, but where you're headed in this conversation. Like the communal goal, which is always going to be higher than the issue you're presenting. Right. So whether it's, and it needs to be more specific than alignment. It needs to be, I know we're looking at trying to build X quarter. I know we have to we want to expand here.

So you have to hit them with the common goal because now they're in. Now they're like, you're getting that first agreement with them. Yes, we all are. And three is you're giving the mission of what I feel strongly about. So when you can even prime it with, I am telling you this because I believe that I am very right on this subject. Or in my experience, this is where we're going to go. I need to voice this. It can be simple as that I'm telling you this because I have to say this out loud.

Or I will not forgive myself if I leave this meeting without this sunset. Then they're going to allow you to say it rather than taking as an attack. Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. I feel like so, you know, all the best plans that you might have in the world, still sometimes things can just go the wrong way, right? They can just go a little bit. And they do, right? They just go a little bit left.

Do you feel like you need to always bring like somebody else in to have the conversation? Do you think the disagreements are more easily settled between two people? Or there's like a real need for HR to come into some of these workplace disagreements? Depends on the topic. Yeah. There are some things where it is smarter and wiser for you to have a witness to the conversation. There's that. We're putting on your legal hat now.

You need to have a witness to that conversation for somebody who's objective and can hold court on that. If you said something at the meeting, I have two choices. Maybe you said something I didn't like. Two choices, I can spread things about you that's ugly and just breed toxicity, or I can address it with you directly. And that oftentimes gets more respect from the other person of, you could have done this with that. You could have reported it here.

I am talking to you now. And it's that concept we talked about of you need to tell them who you are. And that doesn't mean telling them your name. That means it telling them who your character is. values and has all to do with that direct one-on-one conversation. Yeah, I love that. I also think you go back to what you said earlier about the end result. Like, what do you want the end result? Nobody wants a problem in the workplace. You want to be able to get on with your colleagues. So it's like, what are you actually, what are you trying to optimize for here? It's not like to win the battle.

It's like just to have the ease of like a good work life. And so you have to think about that from an end result. What happens if you are really, like if something happens in the workplace that does verge on unprofessionalism, you know, if somebody insults you, if somebody is, you know, really rude or, you know, degrading to you in some way, is there like, what are the, what should you say, like, in that moment? Because I feel like sometimes we get in our own heads and we'll go home and be like, God, I wish I'd have, like, been able to say that. How do you deal with that in the moment in a way that isn't, you know, like lashing back out, right? It's not unprofessional, but by the same token, it's like, you've crossed a line.

here. We want to make sure you add about five to seven seconds of silence. We're going back to the silence. This is really hard for me. All this breathing and silence. I'm such a lacher out. I don't know what to do. All this breathing. Okay, we're breathing to get seven seconds this time. I was good. I could get on the four, but the seven is a lot for me. Okay. Yeah. Seven. It depends what they say. Depends what they say. You know, something not nice. Exactly. So let's say you said something ugly to me. I would never. You would never. But yeah. But let's say you did. That was truly insulting or condescending. There's a difference between me catching it and throwing it back

at you harder because that's what you want to do. I want to say something harder. Well, then now I'm the one that has to apologize. Now, I'm the one that's had the worst offense. But if I just give it five seconds of nothing, what I picture is you just let their words fall to the ground. They don't even reach you. And then now you kind of get to look at it on the ground and look at them like, is that, is that what you wanted to say? Kind of give them, that's what the silence. That's what the science. That's what the silence does. And so when they realize that they didn't get that hit a dopamine, they didn't get that reaction, they didn't get that response, it just makes them feel uncomfortable. They're realizing it's not fun. That's why oftentimes they'll already apologize for it, although take it back.

And they'll say, I'm sorry, I didn't meet that because they heard it again in the silence. And so long silences are like mirrors that allows them to hear their words back. I do that a lot of times in litigation with people who I know are lying under oath, if you add that silence, it eats them. It eats them up. And they'll often get to the truth before you even have to say anything because they know you're not buying it. So one would be the silence.

Silence is great. I've been really tripping myself up my whole life with this chit-chat having to fill the gaps. I'm so annoyed. Silence is a whole lot more powerful because it's a tool. It's a tool. It's a tool. It is. is. And though it's the absence of words, it's not the absence of communication. I mean, it is,

you're still saying so many things. And what you're saying is, especially when you look at them and the words and they're falling on the floor and we're both looking at the word. I mean, it's a whole thing. I can totally visualize this whole thing. And you would feel embarrassment. Right. And I guess it's the same. Like if you lash out at your partner, if you have that moment of silence, you will feel horrendous. Yes, because now you've put that word out on a plank. Like you've exposed it. You've exposed you're ugly. And people don't like, They're ugly being exposed. No.

And so when you have that silence, and then you can ask them to say it again, which is the best part. Have you done this? Oh, yeah. Have you? Yeah. Do you like, can you say that again? Would you repeat yourself? Yeah.

So you ask, yeah, either one of those, you can say, I need you to say that again. But not like, say that. Yeah, no, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need you to say that again. I didn't, I didn't catch that. I need you to say that again. Can you repeat that?

Anything like that, it's, they don't want to do it. because it's not just a spotlight on their bad behavior. It's getting to double down on it. And that's a whole lot harder for people. They often will not do it. Number three, what I want you to do is ask a question of intent. This is for the people that do double down. This is for the people who really want to go that far.

And you can use this in every day, even at the workplace. You say, did you mean? That's what I want you to begin with. Did you mean? Did you mean for that to embarrass me? did you mean for that to hurt my feelings? Did you mean for that to be rude? Did you mean to belittle me?

When you ask that, it's doing two things. One, particularly in text message, and you say, did you mean? Like, did you mean for that to be short? Are you ever with a significant other? You're like, oh, I guess you're mad because you sent okay. Or K or whatever it is. And say, did you mean for that to be short? No, no, no, I'm just, I'm busy with the kids.

I'm dropping off something else giving them the grace. Number two, it's making them have to hear their words and the intent. And they have a hard time living with the intent when it's actually to hurt you. Wow. So you're going to go, the insult, it's like the insult happens. Yes. You're going to go seven seconds silent. Yeah, five to seven seconds. And then you're going to repeat it back to him.

Ask them to repeat it. Yeah. It's almost like I'm wishing for someone to be rude to me. Yeah. Wow. That's a powerful stuff. How better than reacting to it. I know. And it, you know, and this is, you know, I just feel like so much of this is ingrained.

I watch so many interviews with you where you are like so even killed. You have such a beautiful way of communicating. And I feel like I'm going to, I'm going to blame my upbringing. But, you know, I just, you know, I kind of feel like I was forged in fire, right? I was raised to like, fight fighting words. Like, you know, head on. And I think that my immediate, you know, my immediate kind of reaction is to like, you know, do this, like what the kids will call, like, crashing out, right? I'm like literally not ready to

go head first into, you know, this like horrible reaction. Can you, can you train yourself? Can you train yourself to be more thoughtful and, you know, like you have so many tips, but like how does that become ingrained in who you are and how you choose to communicate? We often think only of the moment in time and when we're talking together. We rarely think of the moment after. After you said the hurtful thing after you said something you can't take back when you can't unring the bell. And when you start thinking of the issue behind the issue of yeah, okay, we can talk about this, but we have to think of a life together. We have to think about the kids that we want to raise. We have to think about the company that we want to build together. Whenever you're thinking

about the issue that's behind it allows you to slow down. You want to be the one who leads the company and show more control. I want to do that and slow. your pace. You want to do that and stop with the reactions. You want to do that and control your emotions. It's not that difficult unless you just choose to say, you know what, this is a moment that I can take and I can either choose to say something or I can choose to breathe. One of those is going to lead to better outcomes. Yeah, I feel like you're completely right about that. I mean, because I think the reason that I have so much been able to, in my older years, calm down and be more thoughtful about the way I communicate is because I didn't like the way I felt after the reaction.

Yeah. Right. And so it's like you see yourself in that moment and you stop wanting that feeling of like, God, I wish I could have done better. I could have handled that situation. I didn't like myself in that moment and that kind of distance, you know, being able to see and be like, I don't want to feel like that. Right.

Will really change the way you speak. It feels good in the moment. Yeah. For 20 seconds. It feels good in the moment. But then the bad feeling lasts a lot longer. Exactly. Right.

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Get a $75 sponsor job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. What are some tips on how to communicate over email and on text? Well, in text and email is transactional, and that means I'm reading the nuance into it for you. And again, we love to read the negative. We never read the positive. Yeah. We never get something and we go, isn't this just the kindest email?

You see that they said, okay, with no emoji. How kind of them? Like, we never think of that. It's like, what kind of okay was that? Because in our head it was like, okay. Yeah. You'll make the voice. Exactly.

Yeah, you make the, you pull up to a friend. You see what they said. And you're like, yeah, that's so bad. It's just in our natural part of our default there. If you want to do better in emails and texts, you need to say less, Emma, say less. Instead of this mindset of, I need to be a waterfall of information, be a well. So if they want more, they know where to get it. Make them ask a question.

And if you're always just giving a flood, I mean, who reads an email that's 10 sentences long? Not me. Nobody. Not me. Soon as you do a paragraph, I'm off. Exactly. Yeah, you can almost just see, you don't even have to see the words. Totally. I just see the chunks and I'm like, oh, no, call me. You see the chunk of tax. And you're like, nope, absolutely not.

And you have been successful for a really long time, a very successful trial attorney. How, I mean, you must have learned so much in all of that time to get to this point where you're such an expert in communication. What is it from that profession that makes you so good at this? Everybody's watching. More than you think. I know there are people who say, nobody cares. people still watch you. They're focusing on their own thing, but they watch. So in a trial, it's not just the question I'm asking the witness.

It's the jurors, the 12 jurors who are watching me, watching how I react information, not just the good stuff, but the bad stuff. If another attorney is asking a question and you ask something that's hurtful for my case and I act like it's all terrible, you know what they think? It's bad. It's terrible. Yeah, they think it's going to hurt my case. but if I act like it's nothing, then it's smooth, it's fine.

It's not just the question you ask, it's how you're asking it. So you have to make them remember it. That's why it helps to be very short and concise. I have to take a lot of information and boil it down into something very useful. Let's put this in a workplace context. You feel like you have to give a whole lot of background. So you're a meeting with somebody and they go, okay, so I was thinking, and you can just totally let me know if I'm wrong about this, but for context,

and they just, yeah. And everybody's like, oh, my gosh, what do you need? And they're looking and they're thinking about what they're going to eat for lunch. Instead, just you need to lead with the end. What's the takeaway? I wonder how, as somebody who, you know, suffers with anxiety, how, you know, this kind of experience and expertise around communication has kind of helped

or hindered that. Like, where, like, how do you feel like the anxiety kind of fits together with your communication style because it must have some type of impact. It highlights all the more of why you need to say the feelings out loud. When you keep them all in, bad things happen. It's like a shaking up Coke bottle. You're going to explode one way or another. And when things were starting to go, when my account was starting to get a lot of

attention that actually became very lonely because nobody in my world could relate to what was happening. Totally. I didn't know anybody. And I was from a story. small town in Texas. I just didn't know anybody. And there's not like a blog. There were no, like viral sensations around. No, but not in a hundred miles. Knock on their door and say, how's this going to work out? I wasn't in L.A. where it's like, oh, you have 100,000, yeah, you have a million

followers. Like it was not that kind of thing. And so I've made some amazing friends, you being one of them. Yes. And the idea of how do you communicate that made it all more important of, well, I need to just say how I'm feeling to the people who love me. And it's easy to, when they said, are you having a first a amount of panic attack? I didn't know what that. I thought I thought I was dying. Did you? The heart attack. Oh yeah, yeah. I went to the ER. I thought I thought I was having a, because I was so convinced, I was so convinced, I don't have anxiety. There's nothing. I'm never been. I know how to breathe. I'll just breathe through this. Exactly. I was like, I've never been stressed out in my life. I'm not, I've never been anxious. And it turns out your body knows a difference. Your body knows a difference.

Yeah. It really, really does. It's wild. And so. And so. So that helped me communicate that more. And so what I teach part of that is being able to say, I can tell, I can tell I'm getting defensive. I can tell that's getting me upset. I can tell I'm becoming overwhelmed. I can tell I'm not ready for this conversation. There's a difference between acting on my defensiveness and saying like, that's not what I said.

You can't say that. That's me acting on it versus I can tell I'm getting defensive. That's me putting on a table and saying you can see that right there. we can look at it together. That's how I'm feeling. Now we can address it rather than me reacting on it. I mean, these are very, very big subject and really amazing things. You're a father of two, I have four kids. What are you teaching your kids about communication? Because I imagine some of that is like just stuff that you can really impart on kids, which is just amazing to like give them the freedom to be able to say how they're feeling. Yeah. Something about kids is I came across

this quote once, and it's always stuck with me that once you have kids, you now exist as their memory. That's all you will be to them. And so it just became very crucial to me. What am I going to share with them? Yeah. How do I always want to make them feel? And with my kids in particular, there are little things that I do for when they're acting out. Or I know my daughter's told me she brushed your teeth and I know she hasn't. And by the way, that silence definitely works. Yes, it does. No doubt. Yeah, I'll say, it's okay if you haven't brushed your teeth. teeth, it's okay. And she'll go, oh, I forgot. I need to go brush him. So anyway, it's this thing with kids that I see so much of myself. Yeah. My son even looks like me. Yeah. And behaves like me.

And so I can look at his little face and take it in my hands. And so many times I'm saying the exact same thing I had to say to myself. And it's a very, very special moment. You become obsessed with your kids. Like you love their face. They're your favorite thing to see. Yes. Every, They're smell. You're obsessed about all of it. Their little feet. They're everything about them. There's nothing better.

And while I think I would say I've done the best with my kids is having them, being a safe space for all their feelings. Yes. Instead of telling him that toughen up or to get over it, I make sure he tells me what he feels. And he's extremely empathetic in that way. He can feel something and go, I'm feeling sad. I said, Jet, what's going on? He'll say, I can tell, I can tell I'm really upset right now. That right there is huge for any kid to be able to say their feelings.

Yeah. I just want him to feel that for forever. I never want to take any of that away. Yeah. I totally get that. One of my favorite things ever when we had the twins, my eight, at the time she was seven, she came to me and she said, Mom, I'm feeling really jelly. And I was like, you're what?

And she said, I'm just really jelly of the twins. And I was like, how amazing that you felt like you could just come and say that to me. I was like, oh, let me get rid of these babies and we'll go and do something together. But I was so proud that she felt like she could just have these feelings that honestly were quite out of line. I was like, goodness, for me, they're three days old. Put it together, woman. You know, it's like she had a big feeling and she wanted to share that. And to me, it just was, you're in such a different head space sometimes that having a kid that can very easily communicate.

with you is so important. And I think too of, even though everything is perfect now, I think of when they're going to be like 15, 14, and they're going to do things. And I want to be the safe space. Yes, you do. Because you never want to, it would be crushed. If they have done something, they've run into trouble and they're like, I can't tell dad. Like, that would crush me if they said, I can't tell mom. Like, it would just crush you. And it's like, what are the things I can do now? to make sure that I'm a safe space and they, I ingrain that in them, that I don't care what they do. You can always come to tell me.

So it's always the, thank you for telling me with this. Thank you for coming to me with this instead of that you did what? Like that strong reaction of them going, okay, I can't do this anymore. It's very, very keen on how are you going to react in the face of bad news. Yeah. And that's what you do. You're like, thank you for telling you. Yeah.

Thank you for sharing. Yes. Whatever it is. Say that. That's exactly. if you're absolutely shocked by the information that they're telling you. Yeah. Yours are little, so they're probably not getting there yet.

Exactly. But at some point, they're going to come and tell you something where you are a little bit taken about. But you've got to receive that information in the same way as you would, anything else. Exactly. If you want a 15-year-old that comes to you with stuff. Yeah, my kid, my son when he was four, came walking and he had his hands over his shirt. He looked really, really sad.

I was going, what's going on, bub? And he said, I did something bad. I said, what we got? And he showed me and he had a big hole in the shirt. I said, what happened? He said, I just want to see if the scissors would cut it. And I said, well, what did we learn? He goes, yep.

I said, okay. I said, yes, they did. All right. Okay, well, we probably shouldn't do that again. He goes, yeah, now I probably shouldn't do it. And I said, thank you for telling me. Thank you for coming to do this. Like, that's the, instead of the, they just spilled a little bit of milk out of the cup.

Okay. Okay. No, and I feel like that's just going to pay dividends as your kid gets older. If you're their safe space, I mean, that's it. That's all we can hope for as parents. In life. Yeah, in life. Totally, hands down.

I feel like you've just given so many amazing, amazing tips. But if there are just three big takeaways in terms of somebody just saying, do you know what, I really want to become a better communicator, I really want to have better relationships, I want to be better at work, I want people to understand me more. What are the most important things we can do? Number one, don't see an argument of something to win. See it as something to unravel.

When you start to pull your way and I start to pull mine, it just makes the knot tighter, makes it harder to undo, makes it longer for us to unravel it. And sometimes it'll take a week. Sometimes it takes years, Emma, before you actually address the knot. And when you start seeing as something to unravel, like when you're very quick to apologize, really easy to loosen. Two, you go into conversations, have something to learn, not something to prove.

When you can get into that conversation instead, they have to understand my point. They have to see how I'm right. Instead of the question asking yourself, having something to learn of, I wonder where that's coming from. Huh. Okay, I can see that. I wonder why they reacted that way. When you're starting to get curious about what's having. Yeah, yeah.

But actually acting on that curiosity in a way of asking questions with true intent. you're going to have better relationships. And three, you control everything about your life simply by what you decide to say next. Yeah. What are your reactions? You can't be a kind person if you don't use kind words. Simple as that.

It's really simple. So if you want to be seen as somebody who's kind and caring and effective, then you're going to start using words that better serve you and lose the words that don't. I mean, that's three really golden tips right there. We're going to write those down. Everyone needs to write those down. So one of the things that I like to do when I have an expert like you that comes in, I get on the group chats.

I have a lot of group chats. And I literally ask my girlfriends and I'm like, what would you like to know from a communication expert? So I have a couple of, if you don't mind, like these are that. And you can, you know, they're easy, quick and easy. Okay, got to go. As a strong-willed and really assertive person, how do you communicate with vulnerability and compassion? vulnerability and compassion, begin your sense with, I'm struggling. There's nothing wrong with that because people relate to struggle. They don't relate to perfection. So if I say, look, I'm struggling with my

nerves in this. I'm struggling to get to the point here. You're asking for people's help and people want to be helpful. Now, you can't say, I'm struggling to understand you right now. Like that, that's not going to work. But if it's true vulnerability, it's going to be a lot better. And people, when you can say, I can tell I'm feeling nervous. about this. People would say, they lower their energy and they go, okay, it's okay, you can tell me. Like, they will meet you there. But if you act like everything's perfect, you don't need anything from them, then they won't give you anything. You said people relate to vulnerability, not perfection. Yeah.

That's a really big, we could just do our whole episode about that. Oh, this is a good one. My husband need not worry. What's your advice for breaking up with someone? I feel like it's so interesting now because I don't know that the term ghost even existed, I don't know, 10 years ago. And now people can just disappear off the face of the earth. If you had the right, if you had the right words, and I'm talking, this could be a significant other or it could just be a friend, but how do you just break it off with someone? It's very attractive when somebody's direct with you. When somebody can actually communicate what they need instead of bouncing around it, it's an attractive quality. If you need to break up with someone, don't begin with the high and then end on the low,

meaning. Oh, so we're doing that inverse thing. You got it. Instead of that, hey, so it's just, you know, you're just so great and it's been so wonderful. They're just, they know just by that. And it's not you. It's me.

Exactly. Yeah. Instead, it's the quick flip. I'm telling you this because I want to be friends with you for a very long time. I'm not seeing it the same way you are. Instead of the but, you have the and. And. Yeah.

So even if it was, this has been wonderful. And I need to make sure that we're doing what's, right for us. There's never a good reason to ghost is what I want to say. Yeah, exactly. There's not. It's a true insult. And it really speaks to a lack of character in my way. What are your tips to get somebody to listen? Like when you're doing everything right and, you know, how do you actually get somebody to hear what you're saying? Well, let's say if they're talking, okay, I use their name. Use their name. Like Jefferson. It's like, yeah, we're just animals. You just, they hear your name.

Like how I say my kids full names, Lake, holiday, London. You know, that'll get it. Listen to me. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. So if, let's say you're in a meeting and somebody keeps kind of dominating the conversation and you say, Emma, I mean, they'll talk or if they're, you say it again, people love their

name. It gets them kind of stop and listen and pay attention because there's nothing better than the sound of their name. So I have a few rapid fire questions that we ask everyone who comes on. First question is, what do you? you do when you wake up in the morning? I'm usually being woken up by my daughter. My daughter is, yeah, she's my alarm clock.

The four-year-old? Yeah, yes. She's five now. Oh, it goes so quick. Yeah, and she's five, and she is a big snuggler on the bed. So she, that's her my alarm clock. So usually it's the smell of her hair. Oh, heaven.

Yeah. Heaven, heaven, heaven. And what do you do before you go to bed at night? We do song and prayer kids. I will typically do a puzzle or a read a book. That's like my... That's your wine down. That's my... And I have tea.

You do? I do. I love a cup of tea. Any particular tea? Yeah, it's like a cameo mill type of... Heaven. It's really, really nice. Very good. Very good non-electronic habits you've got that.

Puzzle, a book, and a cup of tea. I really try to. And I just try not to get on my phone as much as I... I mean, it's a total no brain now. What are you currently aspiring for in your business life? Oh, that's a good question. find where I can do the most good. Oh, that's lovely. How can I help the most people?

How can I change legacies of families of how they're going to communicate and build relationships in the world? Like, I truly, truly believe a better world begins with a better conversation. I really do. I couldn't agree with you more. And the good news is you're actually doing it. So you can be really proud of yourself. Yeah.

What are you aspiring for in your personal life? Oh. To be more fully present. Just, I try to make every baseball game, every practice, every, every jiu-jitsu, every, I mean, even the little huddles that I have with my wife of before, we're going, I mean, you know, we're just in the chaos of, you're in it, little kids, yeah, yeah, where we're going to go and she's a practicing attorney and I have my practice and this, whatever this is. And so it's, it's making sure that I iron it out. Nothing wrong, we just continue to iron things out.

Yeah, constantly, always evolving. Always, yeah. What is a book that changed your life? Oh, a book that changed my life. There's a book that still gets me, and it's a children's book. It's the giving tree. Oh. I can't read it without boo-hooing. I really can't.

I can really see you at bedtime. Oh, my gosh. It's a great one. It's a very, very good one. I remember my parents reading it to me, and I didn't understand it. And then I remember seeing it on the shelf, whatever different people's houses. And then when I had my own kids, it was just such a mind opener of, no, this is my purpose. Yeah.

You just continually give. You want a branch? Take it. You want the tree? Take it. Like just give and give and give. Oh, it's how to good. I'm so glad you're reading it to your kids.

Yeah. What is something that you valued when you were starting out that you don't anymore? Oh. Something I've valued that I don't anymore. I valued... knowing a lot of people. Yeah. Having a whole lot of friends.

That was something that I valued a whole lot. How many people can I know and like? And then now I just want my circle so small. It's probably biblical too. You cannot please everybody and everybody will try and want something from you. And you just want the four people that they could care less who you are. Totally. And that they're pleased for you.

Oh, exactly right. Because when you got that two or that four, they're like the ones that are like, yes, they're so happy for you. Yeah, and that's really hard to find. It's really hard to find. All right, so on the flip side, what's something that you value now that you didn't back then? My quiet time. I don't think I took enough time for myself.

I just ran, I ran, I ran. I mean, you get that you, how many miles you, I mean, you just run out and over the place. I know, what did we even do with our time before we had kids? That's so true. I had so much quiet time. So true. We thought we had, we thought we didn't have time then. I'm stealing your answer.

Yeah. You didn't think we had time then. It was, yeah, the time that I really spent from myself of just having a quiet cup of coffee is really a treasure to have that. And I didn't really value as much writing things down. When I write things down, it's almost therapeutic in a way. I'm not texting it, I'm writing it. There is something about it, like coming from your body onto the page.

I'm a furious journaler, and it's actually so wonderful to go back. and look at those things. I sometimes write down, like, when my kids say, like, something really, like, silly and random that tickles me, like, I write that down, and it's the best keepsake that you could have because you're like, wow, did they say that? Yeah, yeah. You know, because they grow up so quickly and you know, you need those records. It's like the best.

And I did, I think here until most recently with the book and everything, I try to write a letter to somebody that I haven't thought of in a while and just send a letter that I was thinking about. That was it. And that made me feel a thousand times better than if, I mean, a text is great. There's nothing like a text or a call from somebody who just said, I'm just thinking about you. It just feels good. But for me, it was something about writing it and putting an envelope and putting a stamp on it and sending it. It just feels like, all right, have something important in the world. Totally. And how good does that person feel when they get the letter? Right. Someone needs to write me a letter.

Yeah. I'll get your address. Write me a letter. I'm waiting. This was so heavenly. I love, love speaking to you. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. Such a pleasure. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Greed is presented by Auducy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliott Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer.

Our producer is Kristen Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shultz. Angela Paluso is our Booker, original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Holman.

Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at Jones Works and W&E, Moora Curran, Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mekyll, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E, that's AspI-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emagreed.me. Own it all.

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