Aspire with Emma Grede - Aspire with Charlamagne Tha God: From Broke at 30 to Millionaire Mogul— The Steps You Can Steal

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

In this raw and deeply honest conversation, Charlamagne tha God joins Emma Grede to reflect on his remarkable journey—from a troubled youth in South Carolina to becoming one of the most influential voices in media. Charlamagne opens up about his early run-ins with the law, the wake-up calls that changed his path, and the mindset that helped him build an empire across radio, books, podcasts, and TV.   He shares hard-earned lessons on purpose, peace, and perseverance, discusses the role of therapy and plant-based medicine in his healing, and speaks candidly about masculinity, marriage, and fatherhood. With signature wit and wisdom, Charlamagne reveals how his greatest success lies not in controversy, but in clarity—and why doing right by his family is the most powerful move he’s ever made. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am so excited to share my debut book with you or Start With Yourself, which is available now. You might have seen the headlines, you might have seen the social, but this book is exactly what I intended, a conversation that will make you think, and it's a blueprint for anyone who wants success without the toxic positivity. Start with yourself is about self-leadership, because wherever I go, women ask me how I got to where I am. But what you really want to know is how you can get there. So I'm doing what I do best, sharing and navigate keeping what's works for me in the hope that you can borrow from a philosophy that has served me so well. The truth is I'm not an expert. I've just lived it. I've made the mistakes.

I've had the failures and I've learned what actually works. It takes a lot. It takes the most. And this book is for anyone who's tired of feeling like a passenger in their own life. It's about taking responsibility for your thinking, managing your emotions and getting clear on your ideas and then knowing your next step. It's about picking yourself up after failure, being accountable, but also forgiving yourself, pushing for wins, and never, ever apologising for your ambition. It's also about challenging the rules that you've been told. There is no perfect time. Balance isn't the goal. Alignment is and there's nothing wrong with you wanting more. I'm precisely sure that the reason I've been so successful is so I can

share it with you. Start with yourself. My debut book is available now. Visit emigre.com to purchase the book, also available on Amazon, your favorite audio platforms and all good bookshops. So as you know, my goal with this show is to bring you the stories and the steps straight from people who've built, shifted and shaken culture so that you can take what you need and run with it. And you can't say culture leader without bringing up today's guest, Charlemagne the God. He is a radio icon, bestselling author, empire builder, and an unapologetic truth teller. But here's what really gets me about Charlemagne. He's just a very. He's just a good. He's just a good. He's journey is the ultimate reminder that you don't need a shiny start to come out on top. You just need

grit, honesty and the guts to face your staff head on. In this episode, we talk about all of it, dealing with your mess, taking radical responsibility and being brutally honest with yourself and learning to grow without losing who you are. And he does not hold back. And neither do I, of course. And yes, we're also going to get into what it's like raising four daughters and the values that he's trying to instill in the next generation. So if you're ready for a conversation that is real, raw and actually useful, this one's for you. Stay tuned. Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill? Yeah, we've been hearing that a lot. Good news. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile Bill to Verizon and we'll give you a better deal. So get away from that

unfortunate phone bill and get to Verizon. Run, ride, canoe. Whatever it takes, we'll be here. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal on the best network. A better deal. No surprises. That's Verizon. Best network based on route metrics, best overall mobile network performance U.S. second half 2025. All rights reserved. It must provide a recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person who gave me the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply.

Charlemagne, welcome to Aspire. Emma, thank you for having me on Aspire. Honestly, I'm so excited to have you here. I want to set the tone for this conversation because every time I try to film one of these, I really want the audience to walk away with something tangible and something that they can use. And you are at 46 years of age, so unbelievably successful. You have one of the biggest radio shows in the country, which I just had the great pleasure of being on.

You've got multiple, multiple bestselling books. You're a podcast host. You do so much. But I kind of want to take it back. Yeah, God is good. And you say that all the time, which I absolutely love. But I want to take it back a little bit and understand more about your childhood where you come from. But I also really want to understand what you wish you knew when you were 18 years old.

What did I wish I knew when I was 18? I wish I knew when I was 18 that everything was going to be right, you know, that everything is part of this process called life. You know, I'm at the point in my life right now where I don't even believe in so-called good experiences or so-called bad experiences. I think that whatever you're going through in life is just all part of this process that, you know, ultimately makes you whatever version of yourself you are in this. current moment. So make it easier for you to deal with bad experiences? So-called bad experiences, because what you realize is these things aren't happening to you, they're happening for you.

Because a lot of the bad experiences that you end up having are probably because of your own poor choices. And if they're not because of your own poor choices, they're because of things that you can't control anyway. Totally. I mean, you've had your fair share of bad experiences. And I feel like growing up where I did so many of the boys and the girls had really like traumatic things happen to.

them when they were young. They kind of made poor decisions, ended up on the wrong side of the tracks. And I feel like that happened to you when you were younger and yet you were able to turn it around. And I wonder if there's like a really formative experience from your childhood that shaped actually who you are today. Oh, I had a bunch of them. You know, there was something that my father used to tell me all the time. My father would say, if you don't change your lifestyle, you're going to end up in jail, dead or broke sitting under the tree. So for me, I was blessed to be able to experience enough things early on and see enough things early on to know my dad wasn't lying. So, you know, it starts with, you know, acting out in school, right? You're acting out in school. And then that turns to,

you know, running the streets and doing a bunch of things that you shouldn't be doing. But then you start to see people around you actually go to prison. And then you start having your own little stints in jail. And you see people around you actually dying. And you see people that you once looked up to really sitting under a tree broke. And you're like, yo, my dad is not. lying. That could be me. That could be me if I don't start making, you know, better choices and that's what I did. And that's why I love this acronym called peace.

And it's, it's, it's, it's peace, but it's positive energy activates constant elevation. Positive energy activates constant elevation. Oh, I love that. And see, what I, what I started doing, I started doing the opposite of what everybody around me was doing. So if they was

hanging out in the hood all day under the tree, I went to night school. You know, they were selling dope. I went and started working a bunch of odd jobs. And that, you know, actually putting my best foot forward to just try to create some type of positive energy in my life, it did. And it led me in, you know, it led me in better rooms with better company, with people who are actually doing things with their life. And, you know, I'm just a curious person. Like, that's my superpower.

The fact that I don't have no problem asking you what you do, how you got there. I'll probably annoy you because I'm going to say, we know. I just spent my morning with you. Because you were a fascinating person. You know you're a fascinating person for a lot of different reasons, you know. But yeah, so it's just like when I started actually doing things to create this positive energy in my life, positive things started to happen. What was a moment that you actually found that turnaround?

Probably when I was involved in the drug bus, probably because that was the second time. Tell me about that. I was selling dope. And, you know, I had already went to jail because I was in the car with my homeboy when he had shot at somebody. And so we went to jail for 45 days. And it was that. Oh, 45 days. Well, I was in jail for 45 days.

My dad bailed me out. My homeboy was in there a lot longer. But my dad bailed me out after 45 days. But still 45 days is 45 days. That's enough time to think about what you're done. Especially when you get arrested fresh from high school. Oh, yeah. You're literally sitting in the classroom.

And the next minute you're in handcuffs and then you're in an orange jumpsuit for the next 45 days. Yeah, you got thinking time. Yes. So it was that experience. but I still came out a little bit hard-headed because, you know, you start to see people around you and they make your money, you know, selling dope. And, you know, you kind of feel like, oh, I got some stripes.

No, I went to jail, so I might as well, like, really, I already got one little toe on the street. Let me put another one in there. Let me double down. Yes. And so I was in a drug bus and it was like me and like 16 of my homeboys. And I remember when they, you know, had us in the cold tank, I just was, I just started throwing up, like literally, because I couldn't believe I was

reaction. In this situation, I had a visceral reaction to, you know, fucking up again, basically. And that was it for me. That was like, yeah, I got to get it together because my dad is 100% right. You know. I got to change my lifestyle. If I don't change my lifestyle, I'm going to end up in jail, dead, or broke sitting under the tree. And that was terrifying because, you know, Biggie Smalls had a lyric and Biggie Small said, being broke at 30, give a brother to chills, right? And I was still in my 20s, but I was just thinking. You were like, that's where I'm headed. Yeah, and I was still broke at 30, but I got myself on the right path. You were going in the right direction.

That's right. So what do you say to people? Because, again, I feel like I grew up with so many people that for whatever reason, right, and often out of no choice, make, you know, and we all make bad decisions. So what do you say to people who don't have the best start? Like, do you have to get all the way to, like, getting to jail? How do you turn it around? I mean, it's not about where you start, right?

It's about where you ultimately finish, you know? And, yeah, there's a plenty of. us who weren't dealt the best hand, but you really can't let your environment turn you into just a career loser. You can't let your environment turn you into a career failure. Because regardless of what you're seeing around you, especially nowadays, man, with social media and everything else, you can see so many different variations of success. Now, you know as well as I do that, but there's a lot of people on social media line. I know. More than actually doing the thing.

That's right. But there's also a lot of real stories that you can... And there's a lot of aspiration. There's a lot... That's right. This is what this whole podcast is about. That's right. We need those aspirational people that we can look up to and say, he did it and so can I. And by the way, saying somebody did it and so can you doesn't mean that you're supposed to be doing what that person is doing. You've got to find your own version. That just means that success is possible, regardless of what it is for you.

That's why I tell folks all the time, success is subjective. Like, I know people where I'm from, I'm from South Carolina. There's people making 75 grand a year, but they got a nice house, right? They're married. They've got a beautiful family and they're happy. And if what you're doing makes you happy, that is success. Yes, it is. No, I couldn't agree with you more.

I feel like you are a natural-born hustler. Like, you've done so many things. You continue to do so many things. Do you think that that is something that you were born with or something that you've taught yourself? Oh, man. Both because I come from a long line of hustlers. Because you have had so many jobs, I heard you worked in a taco bell, you worked in telemarking. You had a lot of different jobs before you got to where you are now.

Yeah, my dad, my dad was like that. My dad had a fish market. My dad did construction. My dad sold dope. Like, you know, my dad always had like a little juke joint where he was, you know, selling the fish sandwiches and, you know, the bootleg alcohol. Like, my dad was a hustler. My oldest sister, she's a hustler, you know what I mean? So your family hustler?

Yeah. I always saw my oldest sister working a whole bunch of jobs. And for me, I feel like it's 168 hours in a week. Like, and I still to this day, I write down what I'm doing with my hours. You do? Oh, to this day. Every day. Every day.

I want to know exactly what I spent my time doing. Because you're upset. Like, because you want to be productive every hour? You want to be productive. That's right. That's right. And I love that on the phone. Now, it can tell you how much screen time you have.

Well, yeah, I love that. Because that lets you know how much time you're wasting. You're probably wasting. So my sister was a hustler. So for me, that's all I ever wanted to do, especially when I go back to what I go back to but what I was telling you about just wanting to do something positive, right? There was a time I was working three different jobs. I was working at a telemarketing place.

I would call your house and try to sell you 20 CDs for a penny. I was working at a clothing store in the mall called Demo. Demo was like this hip-hop clothing store back in the day. And I was working at the radio station as an intern. And that was perfect for me because I had some money in my pocket. That's what I always tell folks, you know, deal with your reality while you chase your dreams. There's $168 in a week. That's more than enough times.

It's more than enough. Listen, I did the same thing. I interned at every fashion company going. And I was working in a shop and then I would do my internships on the other days, work all weekend, work in the deli. It's like, you just got to do it. And I love that idea of like, you know, you're going to have to multitask a little bit because it's never the fact that you can just dive straight into what you want to do. Now, your start on radio. I know that you started and you were, you know, staying apparently with Wendy Williams when you had your first job in radio.

Is that right? That wasn't my first job. That was actually, ooh, that was like my fourth job. Oh, really? Yeah, because I started in my hometown of South Carolina. Okay, tell me about that. So I worked at four different radio stations. How did you even get into radio?

Like, where did that come from? Like, your first foray into radio? Wanting to rap because when I was growing up, the people who looked like me that were black that were successful, were usually in entertainment or some form of athletics. And so, like, and I was always into storytelling. Like, I love people who tell stories. So I was just like, yo, I'm seeing all of these people, especially in the 90s, you watching all these black people

from all of these different places have all of this success through rap. And I was like, yo, I want to rap. And so I was in a recording studio called Never So Deep Records. And I met this guy named Willie Will. And Willie Will was a radio personality in Charleston, South Carolina. And I literally just asked him, yo, how'd you get in the radio? And he was like, yo, I got an internship. So I was like, so I can just go down there and get an internship.

And he was like, yeah, I was like, I don't got to be in school and nothing. He was like, no, mind you. This is 1998 in Charleston, South Carolina. So the barrier of entry was different. Yeah, totally different. Totally different. So I just went down there and I got an internship. And that's how I got into radio.

And that led me to, you know, being in promotions because I wasn't on air at first. I was just in the promotions. I was the guy that would help you put your posters up. And I would go with the personalities to set up their events. They used to call them remotes, live remotes. I would set up the microphones for them. I would set up the tables for them. So you know how everything works?

Oh, absolutely. I love it. I got no problem getting my hands dirty. And then when does Wendy come into the picture? Four radio stations later because I quit Z-93 jams, go to Hot 98-9, which is also in Charleston. I get fired from there, but then I go do radio an hour and a half in Columbia, South Carolina, which is the capital of South Carolina. So you'll commute in an hour and a half backwards and forwards every day. Which I didn't mind because my wife was going to the University of South Carolina, so that gave me a reason to chase after her.

I've got so many questions about your wife. I can't wait to talk about your wife. And so when I was in Columbia, Wendy was actually syndicated. on Hot 103-9 in Columbia, South Carolina. So Wendy was Wendy back then? Oh, yeah. She was a big deal. So this was a break for you.

This was 2002. So the parent company, inner city broadcasting, owned those stations in South Carolina and owned the station in New York. So Wendy actually came down to Columbia for just like a visit, you know, to visit the market.

And I'm, you know, I'm a hustler. Like, you know, I's, oh, Wendy's going to be in town? You approached that? I got my mixtapes. I got my parody songs. I got everything. Oh, she's in the studio where I, where I broadcasts out of too.

You're making a move. I walked in the door. 100%. Walked in the door, went in the studio. She was in there doing her show. Hello, my name is Charlemagne. Hey, I got these mixtapes. You're not forgetting that, man.

I would like for you to listen to these. You know what she told me? She said, get the fuck out of here. No, she did not. I'm doing my motherfucking radio show. Take that mixtape shit to my husband. You know what I did, Emma? Did you die?

No, I said, but where's your husband? Oh. Okay, I don't know that I would have done that. I was with you. All the way until that bit, I would have been like, I'd have been sad. Actually, maybe, do you know what? This talks, this says a lot about who you are. Because I think, actually, I would have been so mad that either I would have clapped back or I would have been up.

Well, I'm not going to give her my tape anyway. That says a lot about you. You were focused. She gave me an order. So you went, you found the husband and you gave the tape. She gave me two orders. Get the fuck out and give that mixtape shit to my husband. So I gave, I went to go find her husband in the building.

He was sitting in the conference room. I gave him the mixtapes. Guess what? He actually listened. And we had a conversation that built a relationship. A bit of a rapport. And then one day they asked me to come up to Wendy's show in New York. No, not the coming to her show.

They asked me to come to a party she was throwing. In the party, Wendy told me, hey, won't you come on my show tomorrow? Literally straight like that. And you can't tell me that. So now I'm blowing up her phone or her husband's phone. Like, yo, Wendy told me to come on tomorrow. When did me come on tomorrow? So he was like, all right.

So they gave me the time to come. I went on air with her for 25 minutes. and literally that night they were offering me a position as her co-host. And they told me, they said, we can't pay you though. What? We can give you a place to stay. And that's what they did. And I moved up here and I worked for like a year and a half for free.

You moved without any job security and you just took that without being paid. Listen, I didn't have no kids or anything at the time. And I'm a type of person that I can recognize opportunity when it's not a paycheck attached to it. Oh, wow. Yeah. Again, another place where we differ, but I love that about you. The start with yourself tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. Tickets are on sound now at emigree.com.

Talk to me about getting fired because I feel like everyone's been fired. Nobody likes to talk about it, but you were fired a couple of times, it sounds like. Four. Oh. Yeah, four times. And, you know, my man, Donnell Rillans, he always says that if you get fired three times in radio, after the third time, you become a superstar. Really? Is that the true?

I got fired four times. So after my fourth time. I think I did okay. Wow. Okay. I think I did okay. Okay. It changed your success.

Yeah. Every time I got fired, it was just for- Why were you being fired? Because let me tell you, in any other place, we're like, you've been fired four times. That's, there's a problem. No. In radio, that's just the business. Hot 98-9 in Charleston, I got fired because they bought in a new program director.

He wanted to bring in his own team. It's like a coach bringing in his own personnel. When I was at Big DM in Columbia, South Carolina, I didn't get fired. They had a station. They flipped format. When I was at Hot 103.9, that's why I met Wendy. So I was working in New York for free during the week, but then flying back to South Carolina

to do my show on the weekends. And my program director, he told me, his name is Chris Conner, salute to Chris, great dude. He said, you can't have your cake and eat it to, you know, the bigger boss once you fired. So they let me go. And then when I, so that's what, one, two, that's two fires. And when I was with Wendy, it was 2008.

It was just a recession. It was like 25 people literally got laid off. Oh, everybody got fired. The whole thing. Everything was impacted. Wendy's whole thing. staff, like 15 other people at the radio station got fired. And then when I was at, uh, and doing morning radio in Philadelphia, it was the same thing.

They bought in a new program director and he wanted to bring in some other folks. And it was funny, his name, and I wrote about this in my first book, uh, they told him, they said that if you fire Charlemagne, because he's got great ratings and people love him in the city. If you fire him, we're going to send you back to where you came from. Because he came from, uh, St. Louis. Did they do that? Absolutely.

Because he got rid of me and, you know, what he bought in didn't work. Didn't perform as well. It didn't perform as well. Then I ended up on breakfast club. But what did you learn from all of these firings? Because it's got a hit, even if there's a reason for it, you had to have taken that personally at some point. I did because I didn't know no better. So the first time, you know, I really was pissed off because I didn't understand that I could do radio in other places.

You know, I was home in my hometown during radio. I didn't know that I could be from out of town and work at somebody else's research. I had no idea. You didn't have dream. You didn't think I can go to New York and do it there. I didn't start thinking about that until like probably when I got into Columbia. I think that's so interesting because I come from a place where, again, my idea of success and I've always been ambitious, but it was so narrow. When you're from like the outskirts of a place, you don't really have that big idea of yourself and what you can be. And I have a good friend. Her name is Neke. You know, Neke is a radio personality in South Carolina.

She works at Hot 103.9 in Columbia, South Carolina. And Neek said to me, we were just having a conversation about radio and what we want to do next. And I remember her saying to me, when you leave the station today, just look for a sign. She said, you might look at a license plate. And that license plate might have the city where you're supposed to be in. And I remember leaving the station.

I had a little gray Honda at the time. And I'm driving in that conversation. You know how you leave a conversation. and then it plays back in your head and you remember what the person said and I was like, look at a license plate. I promise you, when I look to the left, there was a license plate that had a New Jersey license plate

and my mind goes, and no radio stations in New Jersey, I couldn't do radio. There's no radio stations in New Jersey, but then my mind goes, oh, but New York. And I was like, how am I going to make it from South Carolina, which is market number 93, Columbia, South Carolina, the market number one.

But God. Here you are. I mean, here you are. I mean, here you are with, like, one of the biggest shows on the podcast. planet. Like, Breakfast Club is so big. I think you reached, what, six million listeners every single week? Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Like six to eight. It's unbelievable. When you started the show, did you set out for it to be this type of thing? You had that type of ambition for it.

Absolutely. Because, you know, there came a point in my life when stuff like that starts happening to you, not only do you have a faith in a higher power, you just start believing in yourself, and you start believing in the power of intention, and you start believing in the law of attraction, right? So you start doing your vision board, and you start, you know, journaling, and you just You do all of that. Oh, all of that. And you just start speaking things in the fruition. So the first time, and envy and Angelio will tell you this, when I got on Breakfast Club,

I was the one saying, yo, we're going to be syndicated. You know, we're going to be a nationally syndicated show. Like, I saw the vision, you know, early, early, early on. To the point where I remember Nikki Minaj had that song, A Moment for Life. Oh, it's one of my favorite songs. I love it. And she had a line in there. She was like, in this moment, we'll be syndicated.

And I used to say that all the time over and over. I wanted to use it in promos and everything. They was like, oh, that's corny, that's corny. No, it's not corny. It's such a good start. And I just knew. I just knew that, you know, this team of myself and Envy and E. It was going to do something.

You know, of course, you can never say, hey, this is going to be this successful. You just know it's going to be successful. You just don't know how successful it's going to be. And, you know, to be 15 years later and. It's unbelievable. Were you trying to emulate something? Could you see, was there like a version or a blueprint of what you guys are saying, And okay, if we set out to do this, you know, it's going to look exactly like X, Y, and Z.

Because I do that all the time. You know, when I start a company, I often take aim at the competition. I will often say, and I remember at the beginning of a good American, I was like, we are going to absolutely kill X, I won't say it. But, you know, it's like a prominent competition. And, you know, and I would be like I'd look and I'd learn every single thing about that business. The prices where their distribution, how they sell, like what they put in emails, like the whole thing. Did you do that?

I had my site set on the competition for sure. Because you got to think this is New York City. So 2010 in radio, that's Hot 97. That's the big dogs, right? So all of them could get it. I'm ready to come in here and just chop all of their heads off. But as far as, like, who we were emulating, nobody. The only person I would even think that we were thinking about emulating was Elvis Duran,

but not because of how Elvis did things, but just because that was the big show. show for the company we work for, which is iHeart. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I mean, you've obviously rose to prominence saying some pretty outrageous things, but I feel like in the last, I don't know if it's been in the last few years, I feel like you've completely switched that up. You have like a new way of being. You seem to like be operating on some very different type of vibration now. Was that purposeful for you? Absolutely. A hundred percent, you know, because I saw the ceiling that existed for a lot of people in hip hop, especially hip hop media, right? People weren't allowing themselves to grow.

And one thing I know about any industry that you're in, you have to know when to pivot, you have to know when to grow, you have to know when to evolve. And I think that one of the mistakes that we make in hip hop culture a lot of times is we don't allow ourselves to just simply grow up. Like that's just something, that's something rather new, right? Like the Jay-Z, you know, with the wife and the kids, you know, doing the 4-4-4. Rapping about being a grown-up. That's pretty new.

Nah's rapping about brunch on Sundays. That's pretty new. Like, it makes me feel good. No, you're absolutely right about that. It makes me feel good to see the younger ones like the Kendrick Lamar's doing stuff like Miss Mara. With real grown-up rap. Yeah.

So it's just like we don't allow ourselves to grow up. So personally and professionally, I knew that I was going to bump my head if I didn't grow the fuck up. And what was the turning point for you? Was there something that happened? No, I think I started going to therapy in 2016 because, you know, I saw myself becoming a version of myself that I didn't like. I was caught up in, like, the whole hip-hop, you know, star lifestyle. And I got married in 2014, but I wasn't, you know, being the best husband.

Those two things don't work together. No. Hip-hop lifestyle and the marriage. No, no, no. So I wasn't being the best husband and I was becoming like my dad. And, you know, before I started going to therapy, I thought that I really was upset with my dad because of his infidelity, you know, towards my mom. And that made me literally, I remember just saying to myself, y'all, I'm becoming what I claim

to despise, what I claim, you know, to hate. Plus, I've always dealt with, like, anxiety and about to depression throughout my whole life. So, you know, imagine having the success, having more money than you have made in your life. But on the inside, you just fucked up. Like, you know, you don't feel good about who you are, right? Like, you're thinking to yourself with, man, why am I still dealing with anxiety when I don't got to worry about these bills? Or, you know, why am I still having bouts of depression when I'm, you know, got this top-rated radio show. And, you know, I just put out this best-selling book.

Like, why is, you know, why am I still feeling the way I'm feeling? And so that's what led me to therapy. And, you know, if you've ever done any type of therapy, you know, you've done all the types of therapy. Man, you go for one thing. Next thing, you know, you're peeling back all types of layers of the trauma. I mean, this is it. And it never stops. I mean, I think about one of my principles.

Charlemagne, and it's a principle that I have in business, which is, you know, ultimately you can't be successful in business unless you're successful in life. And you have to deal with all of your shit. That's right. And only you can deal with it. And I feel like going to therapy, it's like one of many things that just starts to, you know, you start to uncover, but you've got to then deal with it. So what does that even look like for you? Because once you start to learn about yourself, you've then got to figure out, okay, well, how am I making progress? How am I making change? Fantastic question. Fantastic question. You know, people go to therapy and they get the language, right? And you start to understand what the problems are, but you don't actually do anything to heal from it. And, you know, I love my good sister, Debbie Brown, remember she put me on to that one time. She was like, yo, you know, you can go to therapy and get the language. But, you know, if you don't really feel things changing, it's because you're not really doing no real healing work. You got to do the work. You got to go do that real healing work. So that real healing work can look like a number of things. It can look like, you know, meditation. It can look like, you know, plant-based.

medicine. It can look like, you know, grounding. It can look like really, really facing those hard traumas that you've been trying to run from and just feeling them and dealing with them. And, you know, I tell folks all the time, man, you get to a certain age and you realize life is literally just about healing your inner child. Yeah, all day long. All day long. All day long. All day long. That five-year-old version of yourself, that eight-year-old version of yourself, that 15-year-old version yourself. Like those versions, you know, that version of yourself that was young and experienced certain traumas, you know, they didn't have the resources that you had. They didn't have the information of the knowledge that you had. And, you know,

you got to go back and do your best to heal those versions of yourself. So healing is a constant thing. Like, I don't think that any, I don't think anybody ever actually gets healed. No, you don't get done with it. No. Because there's always something that's going to trigger you that might bring you back to that place, but at least you've got some tools and some resources to know how to deal with it. Have you been surprised in therapy? Surprised? I think, well, the first time I ever had a real breakthrough was when I realized my dad

used to discipline me but things that he never taught me, right? And so, I feel like that's one that people are going to go, yeah, that happened to me. Yeah. And also, to his credit, when I started talking about, you know, my issues that I was dealing with with my mental health, it caused him to start having that conversation with me. he read my second book, shook one anxiety, playing tricks on me. He read my second book, and I had a cousin who had just completed suicide that same week. It was the week of Thanksgiving in 2018.

And he said to me, my dad, he told me, he said, yo, I tried to commit suicide 30 plus years ago. You never knew? Never knew. He said, I was on, he said, I was going to therapy two and three times a week. And I was on 10 to 12 different medications for my mental health. And when he said, and you never knew this growing up? I never knew any of that. Did your mother know?

No? I asked her. I said, did you know dad was going through all of this? And she said, I thought he was playing crazy to get a check. Oh. Like literally. And so. What guy? But when he told me that it allowed me to give him so much grace because it made me realize he was just a man, you know, dealing with things just like I was. But that's why I always say we can't keep secrets. No. Because we keep secrets and it's not doing ourselves doing ourselves any favor. If he would have told me that he was dealing with all of this. No, you may have had a different appreciation of him. I would have known what I was going through. 100% you would have known. I was in first, I can remember my first panic attack in first grade. But my second real breakthrough, I'm going to tell you, my second real breakthrough. I did ayahuasca. You did? You're one of them people?

I did, I'm one of them people. Wow. I did not have you down as an ayahuasca person. I did it last February, 2020. How did that go down? Because let me tell you, now that I live in L.A., everyone's on the Iowa. Well, I did the whole ceremony. You know, Iowahawks is not something you can do, just recreation.

No, you need a person. We had to shaman. Oh, we had the guide and you need to do it properly. We had all that. And be taken through it, right? Oh, we had music playing. But I'm going to tell you something. You enjoyed this?

I absolutely positively loved it. Wow. What did it do for you? It put a lot of things in perspective. Like I always say therapy is like you go in a messy closet and you start like folding up things and, you know, putting things in this proper place. I like this analogy. The clothes you've outgrown, you get rid of.

you know, the things you want to keep, you organize nice and neat. Ayahuasca is like going into that closet that you think is nice and neat, especially if you've already done some work, and then ripping it up all over again and then looking at this stuff and saying to yourself, why do I even want to keep this? And it's literally, man, there is, when I tell you that it puts... That's so frightened. That wasn't frightening to you?

Well, I'm going to tell how ayahuasca gets you. The first night, because, you know, I'm a person that already deals with anxiety, so I'm like, I don't know what this is going to do to me. The first night, it looks. it literally said to me, because it talks to you, it was like, everything is fine because everything is fine. It literally said that to me. Everything is fine because everything is fine.

I got you this weekend. Don't worry about a thing. Whatever you experience, you are supposed to experience. The next night, oh, my God. Because the first night, I just, I took a little bit. The second night, I'm like, oh, that wasn't so bad. I took a large. Woo!

And then I took another large. Woo! I'm talking about when the ceremony was over and everybody, you know, sat in the circle and shared. Ayahuasca was like, now I'm not done with you yet. You lay back down. I lay down and I just cried. I cried to my wife like a baby. Did she do it with you?

Yes. We did it together with a three-day thing. And when I say I just cried and was just purging all of these different things, man. And, you know, the thing that came up for me on that second day was stop lying to yourself and stop sharing those lies. with others. And that's what made me write the book, get honest and die of line. That's big. Yeah. Stop lying to yourself and stop sharing those lies with others. Are you a change man after the ayahuasca? I think so because it peeled back layers and took off mask that I might have still been wearing. You know, so I think so. But it's one of those things that, you know, with ayahuasca,

like you got to really process it. It's not even, it's not something you process the next day. It's not something you process 30 days later. I haven't even talked about it from a matter of long. Really. I don't even think I've ever really talked about it publicly. This might be like my second time, maybe, like actually talking about it. I would appreciate it if it was your first, but, oh. But then on the third night, you know what they told me on the third night? Everything's okay because everything's okay. First night was everything is fine because everything is fine.

Second night was stop lying yourself and stop wanting those lots of other people. Third night was everything's okay because everything's okay. And that's literally how I just walked away from... And you feel like you are still changing because of it. I'm not even exaggerating. Do you worry about that change? Because I wonder with someone like you who comes up, because I know, like, even in England,

we all know you for saying the most outrageous things. So do you worry that not saying outrageous things anymore means that you'll fall out of relevance? No, because the reality in the situation is, you know, there is a version of me that existed, that people liked, and, you know, I might have outgrew those people, you know? Because the reality of the situation is, I have to be me.

I can't pride myself on being authentic. I can't pride myself on living your truth. That's my mantra. Live your truth so nobody can use your truth. That's your brand. I can't pride myself on any of that if I'm pretending to be something that I'm not. So yeah, I could probably continue to pretend to be,

you know, a version of myself that I'm not. But why would I? Why would I go back when I'm doing better than before? 100%. Like I started going to therapy in 2016 and I put out my first book in 2016, which is Black Privilege. opportunity comes to those who created. My life has done nothing but this. Up, up, up, up, up. More

opportunity. But also with that becomes a lot of, you know, because I feel like the higher you go, right, the more negativity that also comes your way, the more people are, you know, out and talking about you, how do you deal with negativity and anything that takes away from all of your success? The same way I dealt with it, you know, before. You got to block out the noise. Like, people are supposed to talk. Like, you know, yeah, they're supposed to have an opinion about you. Like, you know, my dad, my dad would tell me something that I always... Your dad feels like a very wise person in a lot of ways.

He was. My dad, I come from a... We're from the South, so I grew up around a lot of very wise folks, you know. But my dad would always say, you're never as good as they say you are, and you never as bad as they say you are. And my guy Cadillac Jack, who's also a great mentor to me in this radio business, him and my man, G-spin, put the breakfast club together. You know, Cadillac Jack said, always remember the rule of 10.

Three people going like it. three people are not going to like it. Four people don't even know what the hell's going on. This is that my rule of thirds. It's a million percent. I think about that in terms of the way I feel. I'm like, when you are a successful person, when you're chasing a dream, you're doing something difficult.

You'll feel good about a third of the time. You'll feel okay about a third of the time. And the other third, you'll feel absolutely shit. And that's okay because you're supposed to not be good all the time. Everyone's not supposed to agree with you. That's it. People are supposed to have an opinion about you. I'm a person that gives my opinion for a living.

everybody's not going to agree with my opinion. I'd be a fool to think that everybody's going to agree with my opinion. And the reality of the situation is, you know, there's people that probably listen to me more to disagree with me than they do that listen to me because they want to agree. Yeah. And guess what? The algorithm don't know the difference.

No, it doesn't. So if you online talking about how much you don't like me and then another person is online talking about how much they love me. Yeah. The advertisers are still coming your way there. The algorithm don't know the difference. All they know is, damn, Charlemagne got mentioned a million times in an hour. Absolutely.

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on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamavah Theater.com, only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win? Must be 21 to enter. Do you say so many things that I love, but this is one of them, it's that you say,

if what you build only benefits you, it's not enough. I think that that's such an inspiring way to think about business, to think about entrepreneurship. What does that mean to you? It means that, you know, I am past the stage of, you know, just being a talent. Like the people that I've always looked up to the Clarence Avon to the world. Clarence, I'm very good friends with Nicole. I love Nicole. She's one of the best.

Absolutely. Same. You know, Jay Z, Arsenio Hall. We're not friends, but I'd love to be friends. Oh, you and Jay would get along. Well, Arsenio Hall, in a radio, old radio person. I heard that Arsenio was like your hero. Was your hero?

That still is. He's one of my inspirations. And, you know, P.D. Green. Like, when I think about what they were in entertainment, they were very selfless people. Yes. Right? Who literally served everybody else.

So you know, you already know the legacy of Clarence Abon And all the people he touched. Lifted an entire community, an entire generation of people in the business. Same thing with Jay-Z. Same thing with Austinio. Same thing with P.D. Green. So it's like even when I do different deals now, like all of my deals, people that I've been in business with for a while, it's like, for example, I heart radio.

I've been doing breakfast club forever. Yeah, I could, you know, sign a talent deal, right? And get a whole bunch of money. But, you know, I would rather do a podcast network, right? So when your contract is up, you do it. I'd rather do a podcast network. I pitched a vision to them. They got it.

And they knew that I could do this vision somewhere or anywhere or I could do it myself. And so they decided to do it with me. And, you know, five years later, we have this super successful podcast network called the Black Effect. Or, you know, Simon & Schuster. I'm signing Simon & Schuster. Yeah, I'm a, you know, New York Times bestseller, national bestseller. But it's like when it comes time to do another book deal, you know what? I really want a book imprint.

I want to be able to publish other people's books. Did that. You know, me and my man, Kevin Hart. we had so much success, you know, selling the audio versions of our books. So, you know, our business partners, you know, my business partner, Karen Kinney, and, you know, his Mark, they come together and they're like, yo, they could be doing this. So we create this audio scripted company for SBAH. I know ownership is so important to you.

And you've spoken about this a lot. What does ownership mean to you? Because it means a lot to different people, but you've gone out of your way to actually, again, like you said, you could just sign a deal, but you don't. You create an imprint. You create your own platform. So what does that mean? Ownership means that I can create opportunity for people who a lot of these corporations may not take risk on or may not even know about, right?

Because you have a lot of culturally clueless people working at these, you know, corporations. And, you know, I'm like you. I want diversity. I want inclusion. I want the equity. But I don't want it because it's some form of charity. I want it because, yo, you know, that's why I call my company the Black Effect. Because when you put that blackness into something, it changes everything.

Everything. And it's good business. And it's good business. And it's good business. End of. Black brings green. Yes. That's it. End of. And that's why when you. Black brings green. And so it's like for me, you know, having that level of ownership, this allows me to put myself in position to create opportunities for us. Here's another thing that you say, and I want to make sure I get it right. You say almost at the top of every show, you say, I'm blessed black and highly favoured. That's right. Happy to be here another day. What does that service mean for you? When you go out with that at the front of your mind, day. What are you thinking? Purpose. Like, that's my true purpose in life. My true purpose in life is to serve other people. That's what we are here for. Like, whose day can I make better? And, you know, it don't cost anything to serve. Like, you know, people think that you get to a certain

level financially and now you just become this big philanthropist. Nah, if you got half of a subway sandwich, you know what I mean? And there's a homeless person that has none. Give that person that sandwich and watch how you change. Were you that type of person? Always. Always. You were raised like always. I watch my mom, my dad, my grandma, my grandma was the type person. If you was, you know, playing in the yard, you just wanted the kids that's playing around in the yard. If she has some food, you got to come in here and you got to eat too. You know, my dad was the same way. Like, you know, like I said, he always had like a juke joint. So he was always serving the alcohol and everything else. Made sure everybody drank. Like, that's, that's what I come from. I come from a people who

were about service. My mom was this English teacher, you know? My grandmother was the school lunch lady. You grew up, like, reading and, like, you had that, like, the language and the interest, like, right from the beginning. One of the greatest pieces of advice I've ever gotten in my life was my mother telling me read things that don't pertain to me. So when I was in... That's a wonderful thing for a parent to tell you. Yeah, because it helps you to get out of your box. Yes. And you don't put yourself in a box.

Exactly. That's right. And improves your whole vision of what you could become. You get out of your echo chamber. I love that you say that. I just did a podcast with Melody Hobson and she said her greatest mentors for people. that she'd never met, meaning that she'd read so much. That's right.

And those people became her mentors and those books. And I just love that because, again, if you come from a place where there's seemingly so little hope and nothing, it's like there's always a book. That's right. There's usually always a book. And that piece of advice, you know, when she said, you know, read things that don't pertain to you, I apply that the people, you know? I want to talk to people that I don't, that we don't share the same environment.

We don't say, we don't say the same race. We don't share the same gender. I want to just see, what are you on? Yeah, well, you have a podcast. and Vanderjorts, right? That's my guy. Yeah, we've been doing brilliant idiots for 12 years, 11, 12 years. But this means, so the reason I ask you about it is because you are inviting, like, into

you, like, a conversation, things that you might not be comfortable speaking about. And I feel like you're pushing that out in the culture, like an idea or ideas that are new to the culture, right? This is not, like, the regular chat. Did you do that purposefully? Like, partnering with him was that purposeful? No, you know, it wasn't because here's the thing, I'm really, I, when I, I say this wholeheartedly.

I'm really just an energy person. So it's just like if me and a person's energy mesh, if our energy connects, then that's just what it is. Like, I'm sure you're the same way with your business. Like, God will put something in your mind. You'll get some intuition, some type of download. And you're just like, I need to do this. And I need to do it with that person.

Like, it literally was like that. And so it's like when my guy, my guy Chris Monroe, Chris Monroe said, man, you need to start a podcast and just talk about being snobby. When he first told me this 12 years ago, I was like, wow. I do morning radio. You're like, what are you talking about?

And he was like, yo, I mean, it's something that's yours. It's something that you own. And I started thinking to myself, yeah, I have been fired four times. You know what I mean? So at least if I get fired again, at least I have a voice. And so I was here in New York. And it was only two other people I even thought about doing it with. One was my guy, Lord Duvall, but he was all the way down in Atlanta.

And that's because me and little Duval was already doing something online called the Hood State of the Union. And then it was another comic, she was actually a white woman. But it wasn't, she just was funny. So I was just like, you know what, maybe her? But then it was just like, nah, Andrew. Because me and Andrew already was having this type of conversation. Oh, yeah. Because you get super political on this show.

But that's happened over time. Really? Yeah, me and Andrew, we all met on the cast of Guy Code. Okay. We were doing this show on MTV 2 called Guy Code. So myself and Little Duvall, Andrew Schultz, Pete Davidson. Oh, wow. That would have been a funny show.

It was on air. I mean, it's episodes now. They can't even put on TV. But that's where we all met. No doubt. That cast could not be formed today. We met because we were all on a flight together. I didn't even know he was on the same flight, but we were there for, I think it was the VMA weekend.

And we literally got off the flight, shared a car together that Friday. And it's just like we've been locked in, you know, ever since. We started doing the podcast in 2012, I believe. And like 2015, 2016, we started talking politics because we always talked to life anyway. Yes. So it wasn't that we just started talking politics. It's just that there's more people who care about us talking politics now. We would joke and call him alt-right Andy, you know, forever.

And then when the woke era came, they would call me PC to God, right? Well, you're a registered independent, no? Yes. But that is your point of view. Neither Republican nor Democratic. Nope. at all. Is being a registered independent

just a way for you to like sneakily be a Republican? No, I think I was registered as Democrat at one point but then somebody told me something. And then there's a switch. Clearly there's a switch. The reason I was registered Democrat

is because somebody told me you can't vote unless you were registered as something. And the first time I ever voted was for Barack Obama. So Barack Obama was a Democrat. So I registered for, you know, I registered as a Democrat.

But then as I started just to like really, really pay attention and dive a lot deeper into politics, I'm realizing, like, I don't really care for either one of these parties. Like, there's some things I like over here, there's some things I like over there, but I don't find myself, you know, claiming to be any of these things. And so it was just like, yeah, I'm going to be a registered independent.

Didn't you have Kamala Harris on your show? Oh, we've had them all. We've had Kamala. I've had Kamala, I mean, this time around, as she was running. I started, the first time I interviewed Kamala, because I consider Kamala a friend. First time I interviewed Kamala was 2017 when she was a senator. So she was still a senator in 2017 because me and her sister Maya,

we got cool a couple of years prior to that when she was working with Hillary Clinton. And so Kamala came on the show in 2017, and I've interviewed Kamala like, what, five times since then? Wow. Yeah, I interviewed her when she was a senator. I've interviewed her when she ran for president in 2020. I was on the campaign trail with her in 2020. I was going Brooklyn and Charlotte and South Carolina. I was in these cities with her.

And then I interviewed her when she became the vice president and interviewed her when she was running for president. So, yeah, I interviewed her like four or five times. That's pretty impressive. Yeah. I mean, she's a dope person. You know, that's the funny thing, right? I mean, she chose you.

She chose to come on your show. She could have gone on Joe Rogan, for example. She should have went on Joe Rogan. I mean, you said it. No, she did. I told her that back in February of 2024 before there was even a thought of her being, the candidate. I just knew, like a lot of people knew, Joe Biden ain't going to win in November.

So in my mind, I was like, yo, you know, Kamala, you got to take the ship. You got to take the wheel. Listen, if it's about reach, you've got to go where the people are out. I mean, it's that simple, no. I told her February, 2024, you need to do Joe Rogan. I told her she need to go on Fox News more. Just because I knew that President Biden was not going to win in November. And the only thing that was going to benefit that ticket in any way, shape, or form was her. And, you know, it ended up working out the way God wanted it to work out. She didn't win. But, I mean, I feel like, you know, they could have made some strides a whole lot earlier

to probably change the trajectory of what we saw. You can't do a crash course, you know, when it comes to being president. No, what was it? 50 days. No. There's nothing. Let's forget it. She did a great job.

She did for the amount of time she was in. I mean, it was like, it's not a, you know. I feel like the day after the person's elected, it's almost like you start the next election. I mean, the cycle. It's crazy. But they should take a page out of Trump's book and never stop campaigning. Never.

That's what I mean. It's like you're just, you're in a constant campaign mode. Gavin Newsom, I don't agree with a lot of the things he does, but he's campaigning right now. All day long. He's got his own, he's got two podcasts. He had a podcast with Marshawn Lynch. You got a new podcast. I mean, he's just constantly campaigning.

I mean, it's good. It's good to understand, like somebody's views in depth like that. That's right. Anyway, we're not a political podcast, but listen, I'm talking about it, talking about all the things. I want to talk to you about. mindset because mindset is something that I am obsessed with, but I also feel like it's just, before I even knew the word or the term mindset, I've always spoken to myself. And I just wonder when you, like, how you think and how you've trained yourself to have this very positive way

about you. Do you think about that every day? Do you think I'm going to speak to myself well? I'm going to project what I want in my life. When did that start for you? Really, since I was a kid, but when I really started to understand the power of manifestation, when I understood that, you know, if your mind can conceive it, you can achieve it. Like literally, when you realize that your thoughts become things, it's actually scary. But can I ask you about that?

Because I agree with you. But I do feel like we've got into a bit of this time in society where there's so much toxic positivity. You cannot manifest your way into everything, right? Like manifesting alone is not enough. Is it? I don't think so. I think it's got to be backed up with a lot.

You got to get out. You can't like sit in a chair and manifest it down. That is true. You can't just get up. I can't get up and say to myself, I'm going to win the lottery. I'm going to win the lottery. I'm going to win the lottery. No, you got to actually go out there and play a ticket.

You can't sit up and say, I need to have a summer body. I need to have a summer body. No, you actually got to go in the gym and work out. Yes, I do agree with that. I've been trying that one for a long time. But that's the point, right? Like you do got to, there's other steps. But it all starts with this.

Yes, it starts there. It starts in your mind. It starts with yourself. And sometimes, man, we beat ourselves up and we complicate things when we don't have to. If you want to be in the position that Emma's in, if you want to be in the position that Charlemagne is in, you just got to start by doing something. And that's something might be literally going to get a job at Chick-fil-A because go back to what I said earlier.

Positive energy activates constant elevation. You just have to spark that positive energy in your life. and I truly feel if you just keep walking that path, you'll eventually get to where you want your destination to be. I love that you say. I mean, I believe it. I mean, I worked at Taco Bell. I did.

I worked at Taco Bell. I worked at a flower garden. I worked at a warehouse in the mall. I told you I did telemarketing. I did work at a clothing store. And I did all of those different things just because I was trying to do something positive. And then when you start creating that positive energy in your life,

you just start to see the world a whole lot. differently. Is that where gratitude comes in for you? How do you tell people that don't feel like they've got anything that they can be grateful for to be grateful for their circumstances? Well, you must hate your life because if you wake up every morning, you have something that a lot of people probably wish they could get back, which is just another day to live. Think about all the people that we've known that, you know, met tragic endings or died too soon, too early. Didn't get to live to be 42 years old.

Didn't get lived to be 46 years old. Like, didn't even see their 30s. Think about all of those people and how they would, you know, literally do probably anything to just live more. So when you wake up every morning and you take that first deep breath,

that's why I say, man, thank you God for blessing me with another day of life. Because guess what, Emma, that's all I need. I'll figure everything else out. I'm here. I'm breathing. Everything healthy.

The fingers working. You know, you know what I'm saying? And you say that to yourself. Absolutely. You say that stuff to yourself. I wake up with so much gratitude. I'd be like, yo, thank you, God. I hit my knee.

When I wake up in the morning, my alarm clock go off, I hit that snooze button one more time, and another eight minutes goes by, then I hit it. Then I immediately roll out of my bed and I am on my knees in prayer. First thing. Straight away.

Straight away. I don't do nothing else. I don't check no phone. I don't do nothing. I hit my knees. Thank you, God, for blessing me with another day of life. Please continue to keep divine protection.

around me, please continue to keep the body protection around my family, my friends, those that I love, and I'm ready for whatever the day brings. And then I go, you know, I take my shower, I do my morning routine, I go read my daily affirmations. I got two daily affirmations that I read out of. Ryan Holiday's the Daily Stoic, Robert Green is the Daily Law. And then I try to do five minutes of meditation, which I usually do. And then I'm kiss my wife, low kisses to all my daughter's rooms, and I'm out. And when I'm in the car, I'm either throwing on some 90s R&B, or I'm throwing on, you know, a podcast, that I know is going to get me in that right zone. And I set my intention for the day.

What a beautiful way to start that day. And my intention is always to serve. And to have God bless me with the divine protection to deal with whatever it is I got to deal with that day. This is why you're so successful. It's really that simple for me. And gratitude is always my attitude. I mean, it's always my attitude.

I am. When I say I'm so grateful for everything. And it's not even just about, you know, what you have professionally. I mean, because also, I mean, you have a lot and you and I have so many things in common. First, I mean, you have four kids, I have four kids, but you have four girls and I'm one of four girls. So what are you teaching your kids about life? Like, what are the important lessons that you're showing them?

Because I think the other thing, and I think about this constantly, Charlemagne, I'm raising my children in a very different way and circumstances to how I was raised. And I think about that all the time. And so I wonder now, like, what are you teaching your four girls? Well, I, my, to your point. And specifically, like, about ambition and success, right? Because you must want that for them. Absolutely.

To your point, our parents were raising us in a totally different world than the world that they came up. And so, you know, when you have conversations with your parents, right? That's what I always tell people. That's very important to do. Have conversations with your parents because you realize that they had a life. You were saying, have conversations with your own parents. Have conversations with your own parents.

Because you realize they had a life. before they were your parents. So when you do that, you realize that they're just human and you're not afraid to be just human with your kids. The biggest thing I'm teaching my children right now is that it's okay to get things wrong.

I mean, Daddy don't always get things right and mommy don't always get things right. And I do something to my kids that I feel like I didn't get enough of, if at all, when I was young, apologies. If I do something that I know was out of pocket, you know, and, you know, I'm having a bad day and I might project it onto them,

I apologize and I tell them what Daddy is going through. And you can see how that is received from them. And you can see how when you project on them, you see how it takes life out of them. But when you explain to them, I apologize. I shouldn't have done that. This is why I did it. You see how it brings life back into them.

And that's why I found, you know, the conversation with you so intriguing because I'm always observing, right? First of all, I got four daughters. So I'm always observing just powerful women, like confident women, successful women, women that have accomplished a lot. You are definitely one of them. And, you know, when I hear you speak,

I'm like, yo, I love that because all my daughters have that level of security and they speak that way. Good or bad. Like, they speak that way when they got positive things going on. They speak that way when they got negative things going on. They don't back down from me or their mom, which is great because that lets me know

that we've created a safe space for them. But I'm studying people like you. You're the type of people that I want them to know about because I want them just to have those examples. And then when you told me that you was one or four girls, I had a million questions because I'm like, well, what was instilled in you? What was instilled in your sisters?

What type of relationship did you have? And when you said that y'all are still tight now, I love that because I love watching the bond between my daughters. It's the greatest thing. It's the greatest thing in the world. I mean, I speak to all of my sisters, two of them live in England, but I speak to them on the chat. And we're in constant communication, good, bad, ugly.

But I grew up in such a way. I mean, we all slept in the same room as kids, right? Bunk beds and a single little bed. And we were taught that we and our relationship was the most important thing. And never to let anyone come between us. And I feel like that was such a lesson because, don't get me wrong, there's, you know, four girls. There's always going to be a drama.

but I feel like my sisters are the most important things in my life, like still to this day, and we are tight. There's nothing that is more important to me than my family. I'm so glad to hear that because that's what I stress to my daughters too. What's the age difference, which you know? So there's a year and a half between me and the first one, 10 years between me and the youngest one and one in between. So we're pretty tight.

You know, you've got a bunch of girls early 30s and then early 40s, so a 10-year span, I guess. But, you know, I think what's so unbelievable is, you know, I always think despite growing up in the same house, I really believe in that adage that no one has the same parents, right? You have different versions of your parents. That's a fact. Because your parents are on a journey.

And I look at my sisters and I have no assumption about how they feel about my mom or my dad. And that's actually what's really brought us together, like understanding that our parents are fallible, right? And that we had different experiences in our childhood. And that's really been one of the things that I think we've bonded over. Yeah, my daughter is 16, 9, 6, and 3. And so, like, the 16-year-old is like the big sister, almost another mother. But then the 9-year-old, 6-year-old, 3-year-old, they all like the same age. And, you know, the thing I love is that they'll tell me things like, you know,

like you don't hear them talk about their best friends at school. No, your best friends are in this house. Yes, they are. Okay. They always will be. Like, trust me. You don't want to discourage them. You don't want to hear that when you're a kid.

My mom used to say that, and I'd be like, my best friend's Jenny. And then she'll be like, no, no, your best friend is, Jenny. You won't even know Jenny. like Rachel and Kaye. That's right. You won't even know Jenny after high school. I don't know Jenny anymore. You know what I mean?

So it's like these are the people that are going to be with you for the rest of your life. This is the sisterhood, right, that y'all have. And, you know, the other beautiful thing that I love is, you know, me and my wife been together 20, it'll be 27 years this year, right? Wow. Yeah, we've been together since we was kids and, you know, we got married in 2014, but just them seeing that healthy dynamic and not even just, when I say, healthy, healthy don't mean perfect.

Right? Like, yeah, me, me. Of course not. Like, we might argue sometime and then the kids are like, yeah, we, when we get loud with each other, the kids start getting loud with us. Like, stop, y'all cut it out, whatever. And you're like, oh, okay, right? Yeah.

Because you recognize it immediately. You're like, what is that? Like, we should not be behaving that. Absolutely. Absolutely. But just them seeing, you know, two people in love with each other. You know what I mean? Like, I've had, I got home girls who tell me about how you.

they used to see like their dad slap their mom on the butt. You know, they see their mom and dad kissing and hugging throughout the house. And that's us all day long. Yes. For them to see that. I love. I love it. I love. It's the most healthy thing to see your parents loving on each other.

They hate it. They'll be so happy when they're older. You two are still into each other. Absolutely. How important has it been for your success do you think being like your relationship? Oh, everything. Especially when you start actually caring yourself like, a man and being the husband that you know your wife deserves.

Like that's what that's part of going to do the work on yourself, right? You're going to do the work and, you know, can't know other woman get your eye, right? Have you been able to be honest about that? Absolutely. 100%, you know. Yeah, absolutely 100%. Like I feel like, you know, you know, anything that's anything real, you know, can't be, can't be threatened.

And I think that if you really want a healthy relationship, you got to be honest about your bullshit, right? Like, you got to be honest about all the bullshit that you've done. done. All the things. Especially if you already got caught, you know what I'm saying? You don't have a choice. And by the way, if you get, if you get caught, you might as well just put it all out there because you don't want nothing, you don't want nothing that's rooted in a lie.

With anything that's rooted in a lie, it can't grow. So, yes, I've been absolutely completely 100% honest. And I can tell guys out there this, man, and I've said this a million times, and I'll say it's a million more. You remember in color purple when Seeley pointed her finger and said, ain't no good going to come to you until you do right by me. Mm-hmm. The opposite of that is 100% true.

If you do right by your wife, your life will be amazing. Say it again, Braschana, man. You say, you tell him. Tell them again. When you do right by your wife, and especially, you know, if you've been a person that wasn't doing right by their wife, you all I did mess with a bunch of different women and all that type of stuff, when you cut all of that out, and you just focus your energy on that person

that you know loves you no matter what unconditionally, your life will skyrocket. Why do you say that? Because it's true, because I've seen it both ways. I've never seen a guy, you know, cheat on his wife, you know, not be doing right by his wife, and have real success. Either they're happy, or they end up getting a divorce

and losing everything, or that other person they're messing with, you know, ruins their life, like literally, ruined their life. And I remember my dad, my dad said to me one time, man, my dad said to me, man, he said, man, one of the worst decisions I ever made was not doing right by your mom, you know?

He ended up getting married again, but I do remember him having that conversation with me. And I remember him, because my dad, my dad messed me up in a lot of ways. I love him to death, but he did. I remember one time my dad said to me when I confronted him about cheating on my mom, my dad said to me,

oh, you only got one girlfriend? one day you go understand. And so in my mind, I thought having one girlfriend was a problem. I'm like, I'm supposed to have more than one woman because my dad said having one girl is a problem. So then later on in life, my dad tells me, hey man, you had it right the whole time. Yes, you did. You know.

I'll tell you straight up. Yes, you did. You had it right the whole time. But of course, that was your, I mean, listen, that was his experience. That was his lived experience. And that's what he understood, right? And it's only when you know better that you can do better. Yeah, but we got to stop thinking we can cheat the game because you can't.

No, you cannot cheat the game. You can't cheat the game. No, it's like people who sell drugs. It's like, you know you're going to end up in jail. You know you might end up dead. You can't cheat the game. And it's the same thing when you're in a relationship. You're either going to be committed to that person, right?

Men and women, by the way. You either going to be committed to that person and do right by that person or you not. But if you don't, just know you're going to have to deal with the consequences. You're going to have to deal with it. Of not doing right by them. Talk to me because this is something that you talk about a lot publicly. But are you worried about the state of masculinity in our society right now? And what are you teaching your four amazing daughters?

Like, how are you even modeling masculinity for them? Because we're in a time when there is so much toxic masculinity out there. I don't even know what that is. And what I mean by that? What do you mean? Because if you got to tell me that you're masculine, you probably not. Well, yeah, there's that. You know what I mean?

Like, I'm an alpha male. I'm a masculine guy. Can you beat me up? I know a lot of guys that y'all might think are baited that'll whip your ass, Mr. Alford. So it's like I don't know what that even means when people talk about, you know, masculinity. I believe in the divine feminine

and the sacred masculine. And I believe that, you know, when you look at a human being, we are made out of those two ingredients. It took a man to make us and it took a woman to make us. So whatever the best attributes are from each one of those, you know, genders, We should be applying those attributes to our life.

And that is how you make a sacred soul. That is how you make, that's how you become a sacred being. Because that's what I really feel like we are. We're just spiritual beings living a human existence. Like all that other shit, like, you're a toxic masculine man. Or you're a, you know, whatever type woman. It's just like, yeah, what are we talking about? Yeah, what are we talking about?

Are you a good person or you're not a good person? Like, that's literally what it's about. Are you a good human or are you not? not a good human. All of those labels are just, it's just weird to me. But they exist. They're out there. They're in the culture. You're a cultural leader. You're talking about these type of things all the time. Do you take that leadership like seriously? Do you feel like you have to have a point of view on everything? And do you even, do you even see yourself as a leader? I lead by example, you know, I can't tell you what to do because the things I tell you may not work for you.

I can only tell you what works for me. And, you know, my observations do change. I'm not a person that's, like, hardened about anything, you know what I mean? Like, and that's one thing therapy does for you, right? Therapy makes you unlearn a lot of stuff. And it makes you realize that a lot of the things that, you know, you thought you knew and the thing that you thought you needed in order to succeed and just, you know, show up in this world, you really don't.

I like just an open canvas of life and you can just constantly fill in your own pictures. and you know, you're writing it in marker that can be erased because your opinions are going to change. They're going to change. They're going to change. The way I think at 46, I didn't think at 36. I should think at 36. I should think at 26.

Yeah, no, if you don't think like that at 56. Oh, 56. I don't know what I'm going to be on, but I look forward to it. I mean, I can't even imagine. What excites you now? Building. Building excites me. Creating new opportunities for people to succeed.

You know, building things that people actually enjoy, especially with the world that we're in right now when you see, you know, so much art being taken away. Like, they're trying to erase our history here, like, right? Like, literally trying to erase history. So I feel like art is going to be like one of the only places you can actually get real information. Art is going to be the only place you can actually get real history. So to be at the forefront of storytelling through podcast, through audio scripted content, you know, through books, you know, through films, which I'm getting into, you know, now. How exciting.

Yeah. Through all of that, just being able to, you know, tell the stories that I want to tell and just building. I'm talking about, like, when I say building, like, we're shooting films and we're going to be shooting something like places like South Carolina where I'm from. I'm not just thinking about the cast. I'm thinking about that woman that's going to be bringing food for the cast every day. I'm thinking about those people that's operating the camera. I'm thinking about those, you know, young interns who are just going to be able to be on a movie set and they can't believe that that would ever happen in South Carolina.

Like, that's where my mind is. So that's what excites me, man. Just building, building things that I know that are going to benefit a lot of people. I feel like that's so exciting. So for people that are just starting out on their career journey and for those that maybe aspire to the type of career that you have had, what would you say to them? What are the big things that people need to know as they're starting out? Keep God first.

Stay humble. Keep working. And comparison is the thief of joy. Like, I know that we live in this era, you know, of social media, but just know that when you out there getting it out the mud and you go on social media, you're looking at people's highlight real. People are not showing you the muggly moments. You know what I mean?

People are not showing you when they wake up in the morning and they don't got their eyebrows. Like, the men ain't showing you when they're hair on. lines is, you know, in the middle of their forehead, right? They show you when they got the fresh ball to you. Like, they don't show you when, you know, they're losing. No, they don't put their full firings on social. Nah, they don't put their four. Exactly.

So it's like, you know, you have to run your race, man, and stay in your lane. And don't beat yourself up about where you aren't at any given time. Because what I've learned is there's no clock. Just because somebody became a millionaire at 22, don't mean that, you know, that's going to happen for you. You might not become a millionaire until in your 30s. And don't let money be the gauge for what success is. You've never let that guide you?

Never. Am I happy? Am I happy? When I'm not happy doing something, I'm not doing it. But isn't that easy for you because you've got money? Isn't that what people say? Like, of course you're happy. You've got loads of money.

Yeah, but I was probably my happiest, like literally before I started going to therapy, I was probably my happiest when I was broke when I was on a come up. When me and my guy, DJ Frosty, was in, you know, South Carolina doing me. and trying to figure out what the next level of our life was going to be like. When I was driving from my mom's house, you know, to drive up to Columbia to go do radio on the weekends and to go see my wife while she was at the University of South Carolina. Those are probably some of my happiest times. Like those are the things that me and my guys sit around and me and my homegirls sit around

and we talk about those times. Like those times made us happy. So it's just like if what I'm doing right now, regardless of how much money it generates, doesn't make me happy, it's not successful. success. So for me, success is what makes you happy. You know why I'm successful right now? Because I'm happy. I'm happy, you know, doing Breakfast Club every morning. I'm happy, you know, being the CEO of the Black Effect Podcast Network. I'm happy when I'm sitting around with my team and we're going over these scripts and stuff like that. I'm happy when I'm at home with my wife. I'm happy

when my four daughters are jumping all over me, you know. I'm happy when I can create memories that they'll never forget. I didn't get on a plane until I was 21 years old and I flew to New York. A plane. My daughter's 16 and got more stamps than her passport. My 9-year-old 6-year-old, they didn't have been to Africa. I didn't go to Africa until I was in my 40s. That must make you so proud that you can give that to that.

That's all I care about. That's all I matter. It's like, yo, where are we going this year? That's literally the things that I care about. It knows that making other people happy makes me happy. Experiencing new things with the people that I love, that's what makes me happy. And to me, that's what this is all about. Absolutely. Congratulations to you for being there.

Congratulations to you, Emma. Now all I've got is a rapid fire round for you. Let's do it. First thing you do when you wake up? Pray. Maybe you were going to say that. What's the last thing you do before you go to bed? Pray.

What are you currently aspiring for in your business life? Hmm. I mean, the first thing that came in my mind was just, success. I can't answer that question rapid fire other than to say just success. Massive success. Massive success. Massive success that benefits a lot of people more than me. It's a great answer. What are you currently aspiring for in your personal life? Oh man, constant healing. I'm constantly on a journey of healing because if I show up, you know, as the man that I need to be for myself, then I can show up for my wife.

I can show up for my daughters. I can show up for my friends, my family, my community. So I'm constantly on a healing journey personally. What is the book that changed your life? Oh, who. I have to say the autobiography of Malcolm X. And the reason I say the autobiography of Malcolm X because my dad gave me that when I was young

and it led me to a lot of other books that changed my life, like Message to the Black Man by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, like from niggas to gods, you know, by Akeel. But then, you know, as I got so many, ego is the enemy by Ryan Holiday, you know, a newer one now, Mel Robbins, you know, the Latin theory. Like there's, like, there's, there's a lot of books that changed my life, but definitely the autobiography of Michael Mex because it opened me up to the nation of Islam. It opened me up to the teachings of the honorable Elijah Muhammad, which led me down a path of studying a lot of that when I was younger. And that gave me a really good foundation. How eye-opening.

What is something that you valued when you were starting out that you don't now? Man, two things came to my mind. Controversy, probably controversy. I valued controversy when I first started out. Now I don't put any value on it whatsoever. Like, you know, if it happens,

I know that it's happening now because it's just supposed to happen. Like sometimes you might say something that you didn't think, You're not going after it. Exactly. So probably controversy. A great answer.

All right. What's something that you value now that you didn't back in the day? Peace. Real peace. Like actually like like like like like actually really, really seeking peace. Like I really just like real peace like having a real peace of mind because that's something that I never even scribe for back in the day because we don't realize staying busy as a response to trauma. So in a lot of ways you want everything to be, I thought I wanted everything to be

kind of chaotic and always something going on and this and that. And it's like, no, what's your favorite thing to do? Nothing. I like when there's nothing to do. I know you know. Like when you look on your calendar and you're like, I don't got to go nowhere this weekend? Like, I'm home. I'm like, amen. Amen. So yes. Do you have it? Do you have peace? Yes, absolutely. And, and, and, and, and, and, when I don't have it, I know exactly where to find it. But you got to make it for yourself, right? And you get that from setting boundaries. Yes.

Because you don't have to do everything. And I know you said something earlier that is true. When you got money, it's easy to say that. But you really don't have to do everything. And even now, regardless of what financial status you're at, it's okay to set boundaries. I am very cognizant of my energy. The things that make my energy go up, I want more of.

The things that make my energy go down, I don't want nothing. It's all you've got. Your energy is everything. And I've always been like this. I'm the person that will be at the airport and be like, nope, not going. On the plane. That's a very higher orbit decision to make. You can only do that when you can come up out of a situation.

I don't think. You can only make those type of decisions then. I did it when I was on to come up to you. You did? And I tell you why. I just went, went, went, went, went. It's only happened a couple of times. But when I remember having a really bad panic attack at the airport one time when I was supposed to fly to L.A.

And it was because there was really bad weather. And when I say every single flight was canceled except for mine, I didn't look at it as, well, maybe that's because you're supposed to be on that plane and going where you're going. I was like, no, I see final destination one too many times. I'm not going. And you know what I did? I called the network because I was working in MTV 2 at the time. And I told them the truth.

And they respected it. I didn't lie. I'm like, yo, man, I'm beyond with you, I had a panic attack at the airport. I told him the situation. It was like, I hate cool. You know, it was you and somebody else anyway. That person's already on the West Coast. They can handle it. Great. Done. I did that a few weeks ago. I was on

the plane. And I'm like... No going. All to protect your pace. All to protect my peace. Because you can't get none of this time back. Like, today... This is it. This is it. The time we spent having this conversation right now, Now, I don't even remember what the date is.

We're never getting this day back, ever. So it's like, I'm not wasting my time doing anything that I don't want to do, anything that I know is not going to bring me peace. Why am I going to be in the air flying angry for five hours? Forget about it. No, why? Forget about it. No.

Peace. I'm so grateful that you decided to give me this time. I really am. I've enjoyed every single minute of it. Thank you for having me. Much success. Continue to be, you know, just a great inspiration to women out here. and, you know, just continue to do what you do

because I love the fact that, you know, my daughters can look at you and say to themselves, that's somebody I aspire to be like. We've got it in. Thank you. It means a lot. Absolutely. Thank you, Shalame.

If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. You'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emmer Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Green. Our executive producers,

are Corrine Gilead Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Justine Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristen Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shorts. Angela Paluso is our Booker, original music by Charles Black,

video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media, by Olivia Holman. Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at Jones Works and W&E, Moora Curran, Josephina Francis,

Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mekyll, Sean Cherry, Emmanuel Hapsis, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E, that's AspI-R-E, with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagrade.me.

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