Aspire with Emma Grede - Aspire with Jay Shetty: How to Succeed in Business Without Losing Your Soul

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Emma sits down with Jay Shetty—a global media force, a spiritual leader, bestselling author, entrepreneur, and someone who's building a career with no blueprint — all while staying rooted in purpose and inner peace.   In this episode, Jay opens up about what it really takes to create a life no one else has modeled — and how he's maintained his well-being in the face of massive ambition. Emma and Jay go deep on everything from meditation and mindfulness to business and betrayal, asking questions we rarely hear answered honestly:   How do you protect your peace when the world keeps pulling at you?Can you chase success without burning out?Can you be ruthless in business without losing your center?   This isn’t just a conversation — it’s a masterclass in building a purpose-driven personal and professional life. Whether you’re launching a new venture, redefining success, or simply trying to keep it together while aiming higher, this episode will leave you ready to tackle your goals, all while staying grounded. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am so excited to share my debut book with you or Start With Yourself, which is available now. You might have seen the headlines, you might have seen the social, but this book is exactly what I intended, a conversation that will make you think, and it's a blueprint for anyone who wants success without the toxic positivity. Start with yourself is about self-leadership, because wherever I go, women ask me how I got to where I am. But what you really want to know is how you can get there. So I'm doing what I do best, sharing and navigate keeping what's works for me in the hope that you can borrow from a philosophy that has served me so well. The truth is I'm not an expert. I've just lived it. I've made the mistakes.

I've had the failures and I've learned what actually works. It takes a lot. It takes the most. And this book is for anyone who's tired of feeling like a passenger in their own life. It's about taking responsibility for your thinking, managing your emotions and getting clear on your ideas and then knowing your next step. It's about picking yourself up after failure, being accountable, but also forgiving yourself, pushing for wins, and never, ever apologising for your ambition. It's also about challenging the rules that you've been told. There is no perfect time. Balance isn't the goal. Alignment is and there's nothing wrong with you wanting more. I'm precisely sure that the reason I've been so successful is so I can

share it with you. Start with yourself. My debut book is available now. Visit emigre.com to purchase the book, also available on Amazon, your favourite audio platforms and all good bookshops. Welcome to the Aspire podcast. My guest today is someone I knew I wanted to have on the minute I decided to start a podcast. He's a number one New York Times bestselling author, the chief purpose officer at Calm, a purpose-driven entrepreneur and the award-winning host of the On Purpose Podcast, which currently tops the charts with over 35 million monthly downloads. Welcome to Aspire Jay Sherry. Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill.

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best overall mobile network performance U.S. second half 2025. All rights reserved. It must provide a recent consumer mobile Bill, my name of the person, making me the deal, additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply. Emma, it's so good to see you.

I am so happy to see you. I cannot tell you. Congratulations, first of all. I can't believe we're in this beautiful studio. It's amazing. And when you came on the show, honestly, I want you to know, my community and audience loved you.

I love you for saying that. Everything you shared. Like, everyone is so addicted to everything you have to say. Oh, well, do you know what? Honestly, when we did that show, it was a real moment for me, because I said to you before, like I don't really think I never spoken like that in public.

I always speak about the businesses. And so it was definitely a moment. I'm glad everyone got to fall in love with you. And you're as lovable in person too. So it was great. Well, here's hoping. We're going to get to find out if I'm that lovable. Honestly, I say it in all seriousness.

When I decided to do this podcast, you were one of the first people to come into my mind. Not only because we had that lovely experience, we've since become friends, I see you kind of all over the world. Do you know what I mean? It's like a random conference, then we'll be an event together. And every time I see you, everything about you is so you.

You're just one of the people that like fills me up with like warmth and happiness every single time I see you. And honestly, the whole point and the purpose of me doing this podcast was really to talk to people that I aspire to that I think the world aspires to. And I'm really obsessed with this idea that in life you can't be what you don't see. And when I look at you as an author, as a podcast host, as a businessman, as a coach, you've kind of crafted this career for yourself, which is literally a one of one. And you've done it all while remaining so true to your purpose and your vision.

And I just wonder how you've done that. Like, how did you do or create that kind of career when there's clearly like no model for it? That's what I think. Life's about two things. I think you're told when you're growing up that life is about checking all these boxes, ticking all these boxes. to school, get good grades, get a good job, get married, have kids, and then you made it. And I actually think life's about two things. It's about collecting and connecting. What I mean by that is you spend your whole life collecting experiences. So I remember when you came on, we talked about first jobs. My first job was I delivered newspapers. And I used to go around, pulling my little trolley, around the streets in my area, and putting newspapers through. It wasn't as glamorous

as it is in America where they're like riding on a bike and throwing it. It's raining them. London. You've got to go put it through and you're fighting with the dog on the other side. But I learned a lot from that job. All the other kids in my area, they used to go chuck the newspapers on the train track. And so they lost their streets and they got given to me. So I learned, oh, if you work hard, you get a bonus. So I got more streets. I then worked at Morrison's, Walmart. Like I worked at a grocery store. I was stacking shelves, pulling in inventory, putting pallets around in the warehouse. What did I learn there? I learned how merchandise was sold, how it was stacked, how was put together. Then I was lucky enough to work in retail. I sold

denim at River Island. And I learned all about... Really like seeing his parallel path for us right now. And so it's like all you're doing your whole life, I think you think you've got to find this one job that solves everything. It isn't. My job today is a collection and a connection of so many different jobs and roles I've played. And that way, even if you hate your job right now, all you have to say is, what am I collecting here? What's the experience? What's the skill? What's the what's the gap that I'm going to hold on to. And then in a few years' time, I'm going to connect all of them. And I think that's what I get to live today is I'm as much a media person as I am a former monk,

as I am a management consultant, which I lived at at at one point. As much as I'm a guy who worked in a market. 100% of all of those things. You're all of those things. I talk a lot about leverage in my own career, right? Doing one thing, learning that, mastering that, becoming excellent, and then being able to move that onto the next thing. But did you have a grand plan?

Did you sit there and be like, I want to be Jay Shelley, the Jay Shelley that can do this, this, this, this and this? Or did that happen to you? Like, at what point was there a decision where you were like, I see an opportunity here and I'm going to put that all together? Yeah, I'd say it's lots of mini steps. And I think I like saying that because I think it also gives people confidence that they can do it. Because I think sometimes we're told, dream big, do big, think big. And I'm like, well, where I grew up, I didn't have anyone thinking big around me. Totally.

I wasn't surrounded by people who were achieving incredible things. everyone was just trying to do their best to get by, including my parents. My parents' annual income together was like 50,000 pounds. Totally. And I'm not saying that's not a lot or a little. It's just that's what it was. And so for me, what it was was seeing things progress. So at 11 years old, my parents forced me to go to public speaking school because they were so scared I was going to be a shy kid.

Was there such a thing? What is public speaking school? It's called the London Academy of Music, Drama, and Arts, Lambda. It's brilliant. And I got four. So I would go three hours a day, three day. a week for seven years of my life. And so I learned this skill, but I didn't have any use for it. Yeah. But it was interesting. Then, obviously, I went and lived as a monk for three years.

I learned so much Eastern wisdom. I learned meditation. I learned all these skills and habits. Now I actually had a use of those public speaking skills. 100%. So I started to share what I'd learned. Then as I started to share what I'd learned, I was doing talks in rooms, probably quarter of the size of this. Zero people turned up. Five people turned up. And I started to share what I'd learned. And I to think, well, maybe I need to do something online because maybe 50 people will show up. Yeah. So for me, it was this incremental process of following my heart, following my passion and skill in that tiny moment, and then more becomes unfolded. And I think that's what life's like.

Like, when you look up a mountain, if you've ever gone on a long hike, I was in Bhutan last year and we're hiking up to this place called the Tiger's Nest, it feels like something out of Black Panther. There's a monastery on the edge of a cliff. And when you look up and they tell you, it's three hours to get up there. Did I know every twist and turn? Did I know every peak and Trough and Valley? No. All I knew is I was trying to get there. This time I'd say I didn't even know three steps in front of me. Really? And it just unfolded. Yeah. That's my reality. That's real for me. And do you think that that's true so much now? Like if that is the way that your career has unfolded, there must be an element of you going, you know what, I've always been led in the right path and therefore

it's just going to happen? Or do you think nowadays you have more like of a form? And you're like, do you know what? I know exactly where I'm going. Yeah, it changed. Yeah. So it switched. As soon as my life gained momentum and momentum is something I think you can't manufacture. A thousand percent.

And when you get momentum, ever since I got that, which was nine years ago now, I promised myself I would never take my foot off the gas. I was like I never thought this. You've never thought this. You leaned in like a motherfucker. I'm like, whoa. Yeah. I was like, I never thought this was possible.

I never believed this would happen to someone like me. I never thought this was real. From this day forth, I'm going to be really focused. I'm going to be really strategic and I'm going to be really organized. And I think that's the path it took. So now I dream bigger than I ever have. I'm very clear on what our goals are. I'm very clear and focused on everything.

But that comes from the confidence you get from seeing your life unfold. 100%. And it's interesting to me because with everything that you do and I don't want to make you say, you know, you're so strategic and there's such a clear red thread through everything you do. But it seems to me that at the heart of that, you're still. You're still you. You're still, you have this purpose. You're still putting wellness at the forefront of everything. In fact, I mean, I read that you do what, 90 minutes meditation as a day? We're going to talk

about that, Jay Shetty, let me tell you. But, you know, when I think about it, we often think about ambition and wellness or this idea of self-care and putting, you know, yourself first as a complete odds with one another, right? And yet somehow it feels to me like you've been able to couple the ambition and the purpose and this idea of looking after yourself, or it's all triangulated. Like, is that true? Is that honest? That's so sweet.

No, that really means so much to me because I feel so seen right now by you. And I realized I had to give myself permission for that. Absolutely. Because in the beginning, I thought I had to just be this and just to be that. So to your point, I had a really amazing conversation where, for me, what switched and what changed for me in allowing myself to be. be all of that was me saying, I cannot believe that I'm going to limit myself. There was this amazing quote from Martin Luther King. He said, people who love peace need to learn to organize themselves

as well as those who love war. And if you think about that for a second, everyone who wants to tear the world down is organized, strategic and focused. That means all of us who want to do good and wellness in the world, if we're all woo-woo and like, peace signs up, we're not getting anywhere. 100% because you're basically losing the battle just from the get-go. Wow. So for me, if I really want to spread wellness at the pace people want entertainment, if I really want to make wisdom go viral, I have to be sincere and strategic. I have to be purposeful and passionate.

I have to be affectionate and affirmative. I've got to be both. I can't choose and say, I'm just going to be this soft, you know, I'm going to sit on the mountain top and hope that this reaches the rest of the world, it's not going to happen. And so that quote means a lot to me because the fact that Martin Luther King had to organize around love, had to organize around community, it wasn't good enough to say, oh, we all love each other, we should just be kind. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. But I think it's really important that you say that because I think about that all the time, that you can be two things.

You can be super ambitious and you can go at it throughout the entire week and then get to the weekend and completely decompress and walk away from that. And I think people or humans have a really hard time with that idea of like, I can do this, but I can also do that. And you just don't seem to have that problem. Like it's just, it just comes natural to you. I think a big part of that was the monk training because the point of monk training is you are where your feet are.

So you're actually present. So if I'm actually where my feet are right now, that means I'm right here. That means I'm listening. It means I'm present. it means I'm conscious, which allows me to be effective in the moment. You can't be attentive when you want and then not be attentive on the other side. So if people say, I want to be present on my vacation, but I want to be absent at work. It doesn't work because it bleeds.

Inattention bleeds into everything. So you can't choose when to be present and absent. So I've got to be present. So if I'm present with you, I'll be present on the weekend. I'll be present on holiday and I'll be present in my workplace. If I'm absent with you, that's what leaks and that's what bleeds. And so you have to practice presence or absence. And you practice that through meditation, right?

You really do meditate 90 minutes a day. When do you get the time? I know, listen, don't list. I knew you were going to say this to me today. I took a class. I went and did like a transcendental meditation class. I did it with my husband who somehow magically as a man, I didn't say that, manages to get his 40 minutes in a day.

Wow. I do 20 minutes a day, it is a miracle. I'm not so happy with myself. But not, like, tell me, tell me how. How do you get to 90? Like, I want to be able to do that. First of all, being a mom is harder than being a meditator. So I'm just going to put that out there. Thank you. Let's just be really realistic about that first of all, right? So I don't have that. But first of all, I think it's a practice that starts at 10 minutes. And I've been meditating now for nearly two decades. Wow. For 90 minutes. But I've started very, very early in my life.

at 10 minutes. It's not something you get to. The second thing I'll say is 90 minutes is a commitment in my path where if I want to teach, I have to meditate that much because I want to be a teacher. So I always say, you want your personal trainer to have six-pack abs, right? So you want your trainer to work out more than you do. I'm a trainer. I've got to work out more than the person. So I don't think 90 minutes is something we should start saying everyone needs to do, just as not everyone needs to do 3,000 crunches like Cristiano Ronaldo or whatever it is. So I think doing 10 or 20 minutes is beautiful. I think doing five minutes is beautiful. And the way you get to it is you start to see the value and the benefit. That's it. And I want to make it really, really simple for people, if someone

struggles with meditation and they don't even know where to find five minutes in their day, this is what you do whenever you walk into a room, whether you wake up, when you're moving in meetings, it's called the five four, three, two, one technique. I love it. All you have to do is you look at five things around you. So when I walked in here, I noticed the beautiful, chic, back. And I noticed the beautiful, backdrop that you have. I notice the beautiful gloss that you have on the name of the podcast. I know it's the table. I'm noticing shapes, shades, colors, five things I can see. Then four things I can touch. I sat down and I touched the chair. It's different from the touch of the chair that we're sitting on, the arms and the chair. Touching my clothes, touching my hands,

we gave each other a hug. I'm now present through touch. Three things I can hear. There's some white noise, sound of your wonderful voice. There's a little voice. There's your team members that greeted me so wonderfully, I can hear three things. Two things I can smell. Probably been wearing too much cologne, your beautiful perfume, maybe nothing at all, maybe I can't. And then one thing I can taste, maybe it's the mint I just had before I walked in. As soon as you focus on the five things you can see, the four things you can touch, the three things you can hear, the two things you can smell, and the one thing you can taste, you are where your feet are. You're really present. And that process becomes quicker, but we just did.

it in literally 30 seconds. But that is, do you know, it's so magic to me because I feel for so long we've been talking about, in culture, about presence, about mindfulness, about meditation. And it's only in the last couple of years that I understood the power of meditation, what it gives to me. And I think in order to get down what I need to do every day, the only thing I need is energy, right? That is it. And at some point, there's a finite amount of energy. And meditation for me is the calm, it's almost like a recharge. And so I try to think of it in not so much as, okay, Emma, like this is taking 20 minutes away from your day. It's actually so giving to me. But the benefits of meditation, I think, are really still so misunderstood, right? It's like,

oh, I'm taking a minute to be calm. I'm like, I'm taking a minute to be clear and energized. And I come out actually with so much clarity and so many ideas. It's crazy to me. Absolutely. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato

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Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building. Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. When you teach, because you've had so much experience at this point through coaching and through, you know, meeting so many incredible people on the podcast, when you think about wellness and practices, what are the things that you would say to my listeners that you absolutely have to adopt? If you are living a fast-paced, busy life, big career, trying to start a company, what do you need to do? What are the non-negotiables? Oh, that's a great question. And I'd say that some of this stuff is stuff I've implemented in corporations. When I work with my corporate clients,

I've instilled this idea of if everyone took a breath for three minutes at the beginning of a meeting, just a breath. Just a breath. Just three breaths. You won't be carrying the baggage from your last meeting into the next one. Most of us walk into a new meeting and we're still thinking about what happened in the last meeting. Facts, especially if they annoyed you. Sorry? Especially if they annoyed you. Yeah, exactly. And you haven't had a second to decompress. You haven't had a second to think about it. All of a sudden, your manager in this meeting is going, what about this, this, this, this, this. And you haven't even decompressed. If you just took three breaths at the start of that meeting, all of a sudden, you've paused, you've calmed the energy and now you can actually be present.

But going back to the non-negotiables, there's five habits that I believe are non-negotiable for high performers when it comes to high wellness. And if you look at the top athletes in the world, the top musicians, the top business performers, 80 to 90 percent of them practice these five habits. So these are also scientifically proven, but they're practically there. And Emma, I'd say every exec, every leader, every aspiring leader is an athlete. We have to start treating our body and minds like athlete because you're demanding things from your body and mind. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. The first is thankfulness. And the reason, The reason why I say that one is the first one is because if you're not thankful for where

you're at, it doesn't matter how much you'll achieve, you'll never be thankful. Yeah. If you're insecure about where you're at, if you're envious about where you're at, if you're jealous, judgmental of where you're at, that's what you're going to be like when you're at the top of the mountain or when you're at the bottom of the mountain. So the way I'd say to be grateful is not a journal, don't write about it. You have to share it. If you want gratitude to work, it has to be three things, expressed, specific, and personal.

So if I'm going to be grateful to you, Emma, like, you're going to be grateful to you, Emma, like you were kindly to me at the start of this. You expressed it. You said, Jay, I love coming on your show. You were specific. You were like, Jay, when I came on your show, I got to talk about things that I don't really talk about. And you were personal. You said, you made me feel really comfortable. You did all of those three things. If you think about most gratitude, it's generic. I'm grateful for life. I'm grateful for the air. I'm grateful for the cloud. And you'll be grateful in your journal. You never share it. It's just writing it down. That doesn't work. Studies show that if you share gratitude,

If you express it, it's specific and it's personal, you can't be worried or anxious at the same time. It's not possible. This is like a lightbulb moment for me. Because one of the things, I mean, I have been keeping a gratitude journal since like the Oprah days, right? As a kid, I learned that that was something. And I don't think I understood it so much like, you know, back then. But I really knew this makes me feel good. And for me, it was about redirecting what was going on in my head at the timing, having something else to think about.

But what I do do all the time is write to people. I constantly send emails saying, this thing that you did was really seen, was really appreciated and made me feel like this. And thank you for doing that. In the hope that they continue that behavior and maybe somebody else gets the same treatment, but I didn't actually understand like the scientific piece of it because I'm just like here writing in my gratitude journal. I didn't actually put those, you know, I always think about it as like you do someone in favor. They do something nice to you.

You know, it's like just being grateful, being English, being like, you know, polite. like a nice girl. I never thought about it in the sense of connecting it to the gratitude practice. Absolutely. And it changes everything because you just said, and I'd say that to people, for the next seven days, do what Emma does. Send one person personally and one person professionally a text, an email, a voice message, a video message. It doesn't have to be long, 30 seconds, and share gratitude that's specific and personal. It will change your relationships. It will change how you feel. It will make you feel like you're connected to people. You're not lonely at the top. you actually have, you're paving the way for others to follow as well.

There's so many benefits. That's amazing. I love that one. And you can do that in work too. Like, why wouldn't you do that with your colleague? Absolutely. Because we're in such a rush all the time and the winds happen. And you could literally turn around and be like, you did this amazing job.

I love the way you did X. Da-da-da-da. It's like so simple. All right, what's the second habit? So the second habit is something I called Insight. I think about humans really interestingly. If you're hungry, you go to your refrigerator or Uber Eats or whatever it is and you find food. If you're out of milk, you buy milk.

But when we're out of inspiration, we panic. If we're out of motivation, we panic. If we're out of energy, we panic. It's like, oh my God, there must be something wrong with me. There's something like that's not working for me. I think it's really important that we learn something every day. The problem is we stop studying the moment we leave school. And we need to learn one insight per day.

It could be the tiniest thing someone says to you. It could be listening to your podcast right now and you'll take away one insight. It could be learning a new word. It could be anything. Just learning one tiny thing a day changes the brain. It makes you feel like you're moving. You don't feel stuck anymore because you have a new piece of insight. You have a new experience that you can share with someone else.

And your podcast is going to do that for so many people. Honestly, I love, well, I love that you say that, first of all. But this is one of my biggest single things. And, you know, I feel like I didn't take very much away from school at all. But there's this great quote that I love and I think about it every day. It's that the more you learn, the more you earn, She's a very Emma quote. It wasn't me.

It was Warren Buffett. But it's one that, you know, I'm a lifelong learner. And I have been like that since I was a kid. But I think I've connected it to this idea of like just growth, right? Personal growth in my life. If I can learn something every day, learn something about someone, that is me expanding my horizons, expanding what I know. I love the way you contextualize it as like insights, right?

And that is so important for people. Like if you can make that a habit, every single day, I'm just going to learn the smallest little thing. How do you practice that? Like, what do you do? What do you learn? I think you can literally go, okay, I'm going to learn a new word every day.

I'm just going to get chat, GPD, give me a new word every day. Like something unique, something I've never heard before, a word in another language. It can be that simple. For me, I like to just, I mean, I'm lucky.

I get to sit down and interview people. So I'm learning stuff all the time. And I think anyone who's listening is learning all the time. But it's like, at one point in my life, I listen to Steve Jobs' Stanford commencement speech every day for nine months. And not only did, what a speech.

What a speech. What a speech. The one where he talks about dogma. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's so insane. First of all, I've taken so many parts of that speech. I keep like post-its on the inside of my bathroom mirror.

So many parts of that. I've posted that speech in parts in so many ways. It really is because what does he say? There's a part in there where he talks about. Don't be trapped by dogma of other people's thinking. Yes. And the best invention of life is death. Yes.

It's finite. And I'm like, ah, it's so crazy that speech. It's insane. So you listen to that every day as a way of learning, like feeding yourself. At one point in my life, I listened to it every day for nine months. And I promise you, not only did I know the words off by heart, the words started to change my heart in my life. Because you start to live them. Repetition. We also living at a time where we always want new and fresh. I think there's a power in repetitive insights. Sometimes learning the same thing again and again every day, lets it drop into your consciousness and all of a sudden you're acting differently. Yeah.

It changes you. It changes you. Oh my goodness. These habits are changing me. All right. Number three. We talked about number three. So I won't talk about it too much, but mindfulness or meditation.

Yes. Having a check in with yourself. I always say to people, you schedule meetings with your family, your friends. You never cancel things for your kids. You never ever cancel a meeting with someone else, but you'll never schedule one with yourself. You just don't do it. it's not there. And so what I say to people is just at the beginning at the end of your day, have a meeting with yourself. It could be three minutes. Put it in the calendar. Three minutes of the

start of the day, three minutes of the end. And just check in with yourself at the start and say, what do I need today to make it a great day? Is it a cup of coffee? Is it a great meeting? Is it me making sure that I'm prepared for MS podcast? Like, what's the thing that's going to make today great? And at the end of the day, let me just reflect on how my day was and how did it go for me? That's the beginning of meditation. Why is it so difficult for what? women, for example, to actually create that space and time. Because like I said to you, my husband will have no problem meditating and finding the time to meditate 40 minutes today. This is a very busy businessman. He also has four kids and a lot going on. Why would so many women find it hard to make

that appointment with themselves and to make the time and the space? If I'm honest, I mean, women are more caring, more nurturing. But just not about themselves. They've been programmed to believe that they should be taking care of everyone else. They have the capacity to. So that's their role in society. I think women have been programmed to believe that their worth comes from helping everyone else and not themselves.

Their value comes from being there for the village and not themselves. And so a lot of it's programming, conditioning for decades where women have had to put themselves... Centuries. Centuries. Century. No, but absolutely true.

Where women have had to put themselves second, third, 10th, even if they're on the list at all. And it's really sad because if you think about it, women have the greatest impact on society. I mean, when I think about my mom, my mom made me and my sister breakfast, lunch, and dinner fresh every day. She dropped me and her to school until I was old enough to take the bus myself. She picked us up from school. When we got home, she did our homework with us. She went out to work in the evenings and then came back. My mom has had more impact on me than any other human on planet Earth. Without a doubt.

And because of her sacrifice for me, I feel so in love. But the only thing I would have wanted as a child is for her to do something for her. Now, when I think about it, and even at this age, like, if I told my mom, mom fly to L.A. I miss you. She'd jump on a plane. 1,000 percent, as any mom would. Exactly. But that's why I always talk about this idea and I've mentioned it on your podcast of putting yourself first.

And I do think that at the end of the day, we've just got to get comfortable with put in ourselves first. And if you can think about meditation in that sense that actually you're doing something for the good of everyone around you because it betters you, it adds to you, it feeds you. It just is that again, that reframing of how we think about something as being, is this taking away from everyone around me or is this giving to everyone around me? And I find the meditation piece, this is giving. You hit the nail on the head. It's all about the reframe. Yeah. It's all about the reframe of, am I giving people the best of me or giving them my leftovers. And most of us are just giving our leftovers. And by the way, that's not your fault.

It's how things have been structured, how society's been conditioned. But if you start investing in yourself, your parents get a better version of you, your partner gets a better version of you, your kids get a better version of you, your colleagues get a better version of you. You will give the best version of yourself to everyone if you've done the one thing in your day for three minutes for yourself, whether that's a coffee, watching a video, whatever it would be for you. Oh, I'm just glad we're down to three minutes and not 90. This is that can cut. I can cope with. All right, number four. Number four is the one we all know, which we've heard a million times, but we don't do it,

is exercise. And I know, and I know you say that. Like, you've heard all of these things a million times, but it is the most obvious things that have the biggest impact, right? 100%. So when you talk about these habits, because they feel simple, making it a habit, like, how do you make your exercise a habit? There's two things about human psychology that make exercise easier. One is it has to be collaborative. And two, it has to be collaborative. And two, it has be competitive. Collaborative. I work out at 5.30 in the morning.

Yeah, so you don't need a real person there. Even if it's an accountability partner, if there's someone else who's waking up in another environment, it could be someone online, like whenever you're, even if you're posting your scores with your friends,

and you might not be working out at the same time, but it's collaborating in knowing that other people you love and trust are working out as well. It's having that community around you. I don't like this one. Am I not allowed to like some of the... Of course you are.

By 30 a.m. I look like shit. I don't want to talk to anyone. That's my quiet time in the day. Like the collaboration. Could I like text someone? Yeah, it's a different definition. When I say collaborative, I don't mean it has to be with someone.

Okay. Because that's not possible for a lot of people. When I say collaborative, it means you know other people who have the same goals, you're talking about it, you're texting about it, you're messaging about it,

you're connecting about it. And that's important for what reason? Well, because you feel like, well, we're both on this journey together. We've both got that goal together. It's the community. We all work better when we feel accountable, even if it's to a friend.

That doesn't mean that they're there in the room. It doesn't mean that you've got to be dressed up for your workout at 5.30. What it means is me and my friends set a goal and there's a community of us and we're all inspiring each other. Humans work better that way. The second is make it competitive. Humans love winning. Now there's one I can get with.

Humans love winning. You do the 10,000 step contest in your family. Everyone's going to be walking at 9 p.m. Trying to get to 10,000, too. So make it competitive. That's what we've not done with exercise. we've tried to make it routine. Yeah.

We've tried to make it a habit. This stuff gets boring. Yeah. Competition doesn't get boring. We all loved it when we were kids and yet to go and beat the other school. Exactly. What we're doing? Exactly. Okay.

So that's how you make it more interesting. I can get with that one. And then the final one is sleep. And this one is the underestimated one. Yes. Because people just don't realize how much sleep is boosting their life. So those five habits go, thankfulness, insight, meditation, exercise, sleep. it spells times T-I-M-E-S.

So you can remember that as always being the five non-negotiables. That's a really good five non-negotiables. And when we talk about purpose, because I feel like this is such a signature for you in every single thing that you do, when you write a best-selling book, and when you do this podcast and when you go out on tour,

and when you're doing your coaching, every single thing that you do is fully on purpose, right? there feels like there's no accidents. It feels like everything that you do is for the greater good. Have you been able, like, did you really understand that that was a winning formula? Or was it something that you just were like, this is just who I am? And how do you think about broadening your business empire and still keeping purpose at the heart of it? Like, I wonder sometimes, does it stop you from doing things? Do you get offers and we're like, I wish I could do that.

If it had more purpose to it, I would take that. check. Like, does that happen? I have left far more, far much more money on the table than for sure. But I don't feel bad about it and I don't feel like I missed out because the purpose is what makes a meaningful. And actually, I would argue that nothing can sustain without purpose. Everything that has lasted in the world has had purpose behind it. It's one of the reasons why the world religions have lasted for so long. It's why stoicism has been 2,000 years old. It's why the of Vaders are 5,000 years old. Like, what else in the world has lasted 1,000, 2,000, 3,000 years? It's only things with really deep purpose. So to me, purpose actually is what clarifies your brand.

It's what creates who you are and why you're different. If you didn't have a purpose and you did just take every deal that came your way and said yes to everything, you actually wouldn't be a well-known brand or entity because then you'd just be what everyone else is. Totally. There's a thing that defines you as being different. That is your purpose. It's your reason for being. So I actually think purpose strengthens business and brand versus weakens it because otherwise you're just some homogeneous product that could be anything. But you must work with a lot of people that come to you and say, I don't know what my purpose is. 100%. Yeah. That's the biggest question. Yeah. And I think the problem with that question is, is we think purpose is this one thing that solves

everything for us and figures it all out. And to me, purpose is a lot simpler. It's finding what you're passionate about and using what you're passionate about in the service of others to improve other people's life. And does it always have to be in the service of others? Do you believe that? Like, you wouldn't do a business, for example, if it's not helping someone. If it's not helping... I don't think it would work. Right. I don't, I think that is the core value of business. I can't think of a business that exists successfully that hasn't helped people in some way. Whether you like the way it helps people or not is subjective. Totally. Totally. You could argue and say, well, this business shouldn't exist. But there are people.

that buy that product, which means it is useful for those people, whether you think it's useful or not. Like this microphone, whoever invented it. Totally. It's like, to us, it's really important as podcasters. To the average person, they don't need a microphone in their life. So this product has a use. And so I think every business that exists must have and does have a purpose because that is what makes it relevant, accessible and practical for people to use. What happens if your purpose is not linked with your profession? because I think for so many people, if you work like just some regular job that doesn't,

you know, you don't find particularly inspiring, what, like, you know, can your purpose be something that is just totally unrelated to your profession? Yes, and this is one of the biggest mistakes we've made in the world of personal growth is we've put pressure on people to say your job should satisfy every part of you. It should make you happy, you should love it,

it should be meaningful. Now, that's well-intentioned because you spend like nine hours, hours a day at work. You're going to spend a third of your lifetime at work. So the truth is you should make it as good as it can be because otherwise you're basically saying I'm okay for a third of my life to not be great. That's a lot of time. So I would encourage people to do this. There's a beautiful study that Amy Vresniewski and her team at Yale did. And in 2019, they went out to find what they believed was the most difficult job in the world. And mainly in America. So they went What was it?

What's the most difficult job? So it wasn't what you do. It's not what I do. Funny that. And the most difficult job in the world was to be a hospital cleaner. Because these people have to clean, routine. By the way, you just cleaned up

and now the toilet's a mess again. You just cleaned up and someone's beds changed again. You clean bed sheets, toilets, plates, etc., etc. And you have to even clean up after people pass away. So it's a really heavy job too. It's a heavy job. So they went and interviewed these hospital cleaners and they asked them, what do you do?

Half the hospital cleaners said, we're low-skilled labor, we clean plates, toilets, etc., in their own words. Then they went and interviewed some other ones, and they didn't call themselves cleaners. They called themselves healers and carers and servers. These cleaners or healers work the exact same hours. They worked the same job. They worked the same shift. They worked in the same hospitals with the same people at the same pay, but they were happier

and more purposeful. They asked them why they call themselves healers. They said, we believe. believe that a clean hospital is integral to the healing journey of the patient. If the hospital's clean, people feel a sense of dignity when they use the toilet. If the hospital's clean, people's family spends more time with them by their bedside when they need it. If the hospital is clean, it's just a nicer atmosphere for someone to be sick in. And I was thinking, wow, like, it blows my mind when I share it. Wow. It gives me goosebumps. It's the hardest job in the world, but you've made it

make sense for you. Yes. And so what I realized through that is it's not what we do for work. It's how we feel about it. Yes. And that's what Amy Rosenuski and her team, they came up with this term called job crafting.

It's not what you do. It's how you feel about the work you do. So what I'd encourage people to do, if you hate what you do, you don't like it. By the way, I've been there, you've been there. We've all been there. The best thing to do is ask yourself, what am I going to learn for my next job?

Yes. What can I get passionate and excited about? What passion, before I was doing this, I was teaching meditation on top of my day job at Accenture. I was in a big corporate company, and I was teaching meditation in my evenings, lunch times, whatever breaks I had. I didn't get paid for it.

It wasn't my job, but I loved it. Bring your passion to work. And do you know what that does? It gives you the confidence to build a side hustle. It gives you the confidence to make it your main hustle. Yes. It gives you the confidence to go and do it. All of the things.

All of the things. So, yes, your purpose doesn't have to be your job. But if you can make your job more meaningful, you'll have a better life. Yeah, I believe that a thousand percent. And I also think there are people that will just find purpose outside of work entirely. There has to be that part.

And I think that right now we're so obsessed with, you know, success and we're so obsessed with, you know, what that means professionally. But I think there are a lot of places in my life where I take a lot of pride. And, you know, it's like, I love cooking. And I aspire to be a better chef every single day. But it's something that I practice at, right?

It's like I take a lot of pride. I'm going to try like a really complicated recipe over the weekend. Like it's a challenge to me, but it's something that to me, outside of what I do here every day in this building, it feels like I am learning and I'm growing and I'm leaning into like a different part of me. And I'm not saying that that is necessarily something I can get really ambitious about, but for me it gives me purpose. And, you know, it's like now it feels like we've kind of lost this idea of hobbies.

And I feel like hobbies can be so purposeful. You can have this other side of you that gives you. gets nurtured. And I don't know, I just like enjoy the idea of like having different parts of me. And that can sometimes feel very lost. Do you have another side of you? Like a thing that you do that has nothing to do with like the J that we know. Yeah. And I love what you're saying because your purpose doesn't have to be big. No. Your purpose doesn't have to get you followers. Your purpose doesn't have to make you money. Your purpose can be something that you love doing and you do it and share it with the people you love. For me, it's so I love football. I'm a huge Manchester United fan.

Just a United. Yeah, it's not a good time. I'm an Arsenal girl, babe. Oh, you're an Arsenal. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I grew up right in between Arsenal and Tottenham, but my dad, as every immigrant Indian who moved to England in the 80s, you either support United or Liverpool. So my dad's, so you got to go with your dad. So I had to go with my dad.

I'm that much of a rebel. This says a lot about us. I went against my family who were all West Ham supporters. And I went to Arsenal as like a good choice. Yeah, it was just, it was a good choice, wasn't it. A glory hunter, they called me in England, I think. It was a bad choice. I love football.

I love playing football. I love talking about football. I can get so into it. For me, it's pickleball is my challenge right now. Oh, wow. I love pickleball. I'm playing this weekend. I get hyped about it.

Can analyze it all day. My whole TikTok feed is just pickleball clips. And it's something to get excited about that is so disconnected. And me and my friends talk about all the time. You're not on your phone when you're doing these things. You're not watching something else. You're not distracted. You can only do that thing.

When I'm playing pickleball, there's nothing else on my mind. And it's a beautiful thing to get lost in as well. No, it's amazing. I think it's really important to have these things. I want to get back because you spoke to us. so beautifully about these habits for wellness, for your own kind of, you know, idea of personal growth. One of the things I think about so much is actually this idea of like constantly getting better at what I do. And you're a coach, you're a coach for, I think a lot of really

fabulous people, people that are very, very incredible at what they do and very accomplished at what they do. But do you have a coach. Yes. You do? Yeah, you have to. Do you? You have to. I mean, my coaches are definitely my monk teachers. Okay. Like who I still see. So every January I'll go back to the monastery that I used to live at in India. No way. You do that every January. Yeah, and Raleigh comes with me too. No.

The time has definitely got less. When I first left, it used to be like a month every January, three weeks. Now it's like 10 days. But for 10 days, I go back into monk mode and I lock in and I'm just learning from my teachers. I see them as coaches. And they're guiding me to deepen my spiritual practice and my meditation. And I find that I make so much progress because of that. Because if you have a coach who doesn't have a coach, then they're not growing up.

either. And that's just the reality of it. It's like you want to have a teacher who has a teacher. You want to have an entrepreneur mentor who has an entrepreneur mentor and that's how it gets passed out. Yeah, I'm sensing a theme here, Jay. This is really like something that you believe in. But this constant learning, this constant growing, does that get exhausting? Do you get to the point? I just wonder, does Jay Shetty ever get to the point where you're like, I'm so annoyed and angry, like, do you ever just lose it? Like, do you ever just like go nuts and not be like centered and meditative have had it. And do you know, like, please, please. I'm going to give you the honest answer. I grew up in a house that was very angry and very, like, chaotic. And so I promised myself, I would never feel that.

And I don't. Anger is not an emotion that I struggle or experience. Do I get frustrated? Do I get annoyed? Do I get struck? Of course I do. I'm human. Like, of course I do. The anger thing is just a very separate, you know, a very separate thing. But of course I get, I know, do I snap at my wife who I adore? Yes, of course I do. Is she really forgiving and tolerant? Yes, she is. Like, you know, have I, have I been in a mood and a strop and, you know, been irritable and agitated? Of course. Like, yes. But you don't lose your shit, Jay. I've, I just, I grew up in a house where I saw that every day and it was just a promise I made to myself that I couldn't do it because I didn't see value in it. I just didn't see benefit in it. What I'm trying to say is there's a difference between aggression.

Yes. And then frustration and stress. Yes. I feel lots of frustration in stress. I don't feel aggressive. And I know you say, like, you don't lose it and you don't, like, get angry and, and have that feeling. But it's something that happens, right? And in business, when you're doing as many things as you do, not everything goes right.

And everything plays out the way that you want it to be. So how do you handle discourse and how would you, like, handle conflict or something just like not going your way? Something that is really like, do you know what? this thing happened and it was really unfair. I don't feel good about it. Oh, for sure. And by the way, of course. And I don't want to, I don't want to do, like,

I don't want to make it out like I don't get upset. That's not the point. It was the aggression. It's the aggression part. Yeah. For me, I need, if I'm going through something that feels unfair, if I'm going through something that I don't understand, if I'm going through something tough,

I need to switch off all outside noise and be alone. Because my take is if I can't figure out how I feel about it, hearing everyone else's opinions is not going to make me feel better. So even if my friend goes, oh, but you're fine, like you're doing great, not going to make me feel better.

If my mom says to me, remember how strong you are, not going to make me feel better. I need to go into complete silence, complete isolation and complete seclusion and figure out how I feel about it. That means going to the darkest place in my mind and heart.

It means feeling the anger and the stress and the pain and the frustration and everything else it is and then figuring out what I'm going to do about it. and it all has to be on me, because that's how I know how to move through tough moments. Then I can go out and say, all right, let's check in with this person, figure it out. But I need that complete seclusion of step one. Because I think so often we're angry and we talk to someone and you kind of use that as a crutch to get over it.

But you haven't processed it. And for me, processing my emotions and my feelings is my number one priority. Does that give you clarity? If you go into that place, that very dark place, you come out and you have absolutely clarity and you know what you need to do next? Well, step one is I just feel the pain. I allow myself to feel sad. I allow myself to feel upset.

Allow myself to feel stress. I then ask myself the question, is what I'm feeling a fact or a feeling? What is the fact and what's the feeling? I have to get to that point. So after feeling the pain, is it fact or is it feeling? Then I realize if I actually focused on the facts, it's probably not as bad as I think it is.

There's something to be able to, that I can solve here. If it's a feeling, okay, there's something there's healing required. The second question I ask is, do I need an affirmation or is an action going to solve it? An affirmation could be just, I'm here for a reason, I belong here, I deserve to be here, I'm doing the right thing. Sometimes I need to repeat that thought. Sometimes I need to take an action to solve the problem. Or I need to go call that person. I need to go figure that thing out over there.

So those two questions save me the stress after I let myself feel the pain. Is it fact or feeling? Yeah. Let's deal with the facts. Let's not get carried away with the story, right? Let's not build a whole story here. No, let's not build a narrative that didn't happen. That didn't happen in my head.

And second of all, if it's a story, then I need an affirmation. I've got to keep changing the script in my head. I'm here for a reason. I belong here. I deserve this. This is the right thing for me. That's going to solve that. And if it's a fact, then only an action can solve a fact.

You've got to go figure out what the fact is and solve it. And I think too many of us, we don't get into action because we don't focus on what I'm actually feeling. We don't get to the root of it. If you get to the root of it, you know what you need to do. Well, because people speak. in conflict, right? What happens is you get the thing, the feeling that drives you crazy and you stay there and you ruminate on that feeling instead of processing, as you're saying, and then

being able to move past something and figure out what the action is. That that takes a lot of, it's training. It's a muscle for you to be like, okay, I'm going to get past this and actually do what I need to do to move through it. And I actually think that that's a really useful tip in business because at the end of the day, we've got to move forward. You're trying to get to a place and you're ultimately trying to win. And if you stay in that place of conflict of something like really getting to you, you don't ever get to the place where you move past it. Totally. And that's where you have to focus on facts, because your feelings will always lie to you. Your feelings will make stuff up. Don't believe what your brain will tell you.

Don't believe everything your mind thinks and don't sign up and think it's the truth. It's going to keep tricking you because your brain is wired to spot the negative and to spot the worst and to spot everything that's going to go that way. So yeah, it's a muscle that you have to train for sure. I just wonder, do you think that you can be really successful in business, really like an absolute animal, and be at the top of your game, and have the purpose element and the kind of gift that you've got of like everything coming together so beautifully? Do you think that those two things are simpatico or not really? I didn't used to believe it was, but now I believe it's necessary. I don't even know if it's possible, but it's needed. I want the most successful. I want the most

successful people in the world to be the most purposeful people in the world. That would build a better world because otherwise we're seeing unhealthy, unwell people be leaders of the world. And I don't want to live in that world. So I don't think it's a choice anymore. I think every one of us who has a purposeful bone in our body has to go and build something and make both work. Because that's what the world needs. The world needs organized people who are heart-centered. The world needs people who are strategic and really sincere and genuine. The world needs people who are high performers and highly compassionate and graceful. By the way, you're all those things too. So it's not just about me. I feel that when I'm with you. I feel that with the people you work with. I feel that with friends we have in

common. I know plenty of people that I think are wonderful people and operating at really high level. I also know people who are not doing that. And so you get best to both, but you get that everywhere. I just think it's what we need. And I think it's what we need to encourage. I think it's what needs to be taught at business school. I think it's what it needs to be taught online. Why do you think it's not taught in business school in that same way? Like, do you feel like we're missing a module of, you know, people having, like being able to like, you know, flex that muscle of here's how you're going to look after yourself. Here's how you're going to find purpose. Here's how you're going to, like, thread this, you know, element of self-growth or, you know, or maybe even it's, it's more like

self-love. But is that like a balance that some how we're missing in our education, in our business education, or even when we just talk about business, because if you ask me, I don't know many people that are truly, like when I talk like, they're mega successful people that don't sit at this, like, or haven't discovered the intersection of their success and some kind of either spiritual practice or, you know, something that has a deeper meaning within them. And yet, it's not something that we talk about in business school at all. Do you reckon something's just miss it? Yeah, I think that, I mean, if you look at some of the greatest music artists in the world,

their art comes from a really spiritual place. That's all right. The artists I know, like the stuff that moves us, it didn't come from some strategic formulaic algorithm. It moved you because it came from someone's heart. There's a reason why that song made you cry. There's a reason why you wanted a song played at your wedding. There's a reason for that because it brought out real emotion.

That didn't come from an algorithm or a formula. And so I think we all know that real art when you see it, when you feel it. Like if you think about it, like all of our most special moments happen when we close our eyes. When we pray, when we kiss, when we meditate, when we take something in. Like, all of that happens in that moment. Am I just hearing that for the first time? Am I crazy? No, and you feel it, right?

Say it again, all of the most special moments happen when you close your eyes. Yeah, like all the most like intimate, like deep felt moments. And there's something powerful about that. And I think that that makes us realize that you can't get an algorithm to do that. Right. It has to be a human. got to close your eyes and go inside you yourself to get to a place of like real truth, real authenticity and to be able to be and to do and be the most successful version of

yourself. Like you believe that that is a part of it. Yeah. And we have to teach people to do that more. I think the reason we haven't taught people is because we do live in a society that only cares about results. But by the way, everyone who's got the results isn't happy. Yeah, we do it the wrong way around. That's what happens because it's like you get successful. And then you're like, oh my good, I need to like work on this other side of me because I'm out of balance. I'm out of whack where it would be kind of interesting to think like what would happen if you started that at the beginning? What would happen if you like, you know, did your business plan and thought about your launch

and at the same time we're like, I'm going to balance this with this other stuff that has equal weight and equal importance to make me successful and to look after me while I'm doing it? And I think it would slow people down. I mean, there were years in my life where I worked 18 hour days and weekends and, you know, and work harder today than I did 10 years ago. So it's not about hard work and not, I think that has to be there. I think it's the work needs to be infused with a spirit and an energy that is about wanting

to do something good or do something great to help people. I think that's the goal. It's not complicated. I always say to people, if you're building something that you wouldn't let your kid use, don't build it. Don't build it. That's the simple test. Wouldn't that just be the test?

That's the simple test. Which is crazy because I feel like every single person that I speak to in Silicon Valley ever is like, yeah, but my kids are banned from, like, whatever it is that I do when I'm working on. Like, for 100%. And that's the worrying part, right? Because then you're saying, I'm happy to exploit other people's children, but not mine. But not my own. And that is.

And I have the information up front and I have the, you know, the education and I can see down the road what's going to happen with this. And yet, I'm happy to do it. Yeah. Well, that's it. But that's where purpose driven businesses come into play, right? Because at the end of the day, when you're doing something that is inherently good, inherently positive when you're thinking about, you know, underrepresented communities,

underserved communities, when you're actually thinking about the good as the primary force, right? And balancing that with this is a business and we need to be profitable. That changes everything. And again, it would be so great if all businesses were like that. But I think, again, it's just something that we need to speak about more and think about more and infuse as the norm. because you can be really successful as you've shown and yet still have all of these pieces. And by the way, and it's really important, no one's doing it perfectly, neither am I.

It's a constant balancing act. You're constantly trying to figure it out and figure out, oh, well, where did my intention get messy there? And oh, maybe I shouldn't have said yes to that. Yeah, totally. Of course. I'm glad you still feel like that. Oh, no, of course.

No, no, so I was actually going to say, that is the work. That is it. That is the work. The moment you stop questioning, that's when you lost yourself. Like the moment you stop thinking about ego and envy and greed and pride, that's the day it's taken over your life.

So for me, that is the daily work. The daily work is actually checking in with your intentions. And I always talk about it as every day I check in and think, am I planting seeds or weeds? If I'm planting seeds, they're going to grow beautiful trees that have beautiful flowers and fruits. If I'm planting weeds, that's going to tear down everything I create. And that's something I have to do every day.

You've got to unweed your garden weekly, monthly, constantly. You can't just say, I'm going to do it in three years' time. Yeah. And so I think that's a process. And that's what I have to do. What's the practice of that for you, though? Because I love that idea of like, you know, weeding. Because I feel like if you're doing a lot of stuff, if you're trying things,

you are going to make mistakes. Like, I make mistakes all the time. And I find it, you know, I'm a pretty easy person in going like, oh, that was me. Like, I made that decision and that was the wrong decision. But it is difficult for some people. So how do you unpick and what's the practice to be so, you know, self-deprecating and to have that muscle that every week you could go back and be like, that wasn't what I intended.

I think it is actually what ends up happening is you make the mistake. You plant a weed. It destroys all the other garden. You go, oh, crap. And that's the reality of moving fast. I'm the same as you. I've made so many mistakes in the last 10 years because we're moving so fast. It wasn't intentional.

It wasn't conscious. you make them because you're moving and you're moving at the speed of light and the momentum's there and all the rest of it. And I think what we don't realize is that is the only way to grow. That's the work.

If you take that out, so you will make mistakes, it's actually looking at those and going, okay, I'm not going to make that twice. Okay, I'm not going to make that three times. I'm going to figure that out. And I think that's what I'd focus on. I think this idea, and that's why I keep saying it,

I haven't perfected this balance. I just believe it's needed in the world. And I'm almost, the way we'd call it in our philosophy is you're relishing the battle, It's a battle every day. Every day. It's not something I fought three years ago and I solved.

I battle every day with my ego, with my insecurity, with my envy, with my greed. That's a daily battle. But I love you for saying that because I feel like we look to somebody like you and think you got it all figured out. I don't. And the idea that actually you're standing and going, I don't have it all figured out, I'm trying a lot of things and I'm making mistakes. Because that's what people don't show. You're not posting those mistakes, but it's like you're, you're not posting those mistakes. but it's like you are admitting them.

You are saying they happen. And in a journey, like, again, you say in the last 10 years, you've made a ton of mistakes. I think about that for myself all the time. And in a way, I wish I could sit down. And one of the things that I intend to do on this podcast is to be really honest about the things that didn't go well for me. Because it's in those things, and it sounds, again, super trite. I made, you know, I had a lot of learnings when I made this mistake. But it's more than learnings.

It's like, well, I won't do that twice. Yeah. Right. And what was the behaviour in me that led to me doing that thing? And I think once you kind of dig a little bit deeper, I find it's the same things in me that over and over and over again happen, right? Once you spot that behavior, you're able to, you know, figure it out a little bit more easy. And so for me, it's like I do want to talk about that stuff because it happens to the best of us.

Well, I think it happens to anyone who does something for the first time. Yes. If you do anything for the first time, start a business, play tennis, raise a chart, whatever it is, you're going to make mistakes. Because it's the first time you did it. How are you going to get it perfect the first time? There is no way. We're living in a world right now where everyone wants everyone to get everything perfect

the first time they do it. And it's just not possible. It's just not possible. It's just not possible. Even when you walk to the baby, you fell over a million times. And that was just life. And so this want for perfection internally or externally, it just doesn't work. And so no, I'm definitely not perfect or haven't got the perfect.

or haven't got the perfect balance. It is me constantly questioning the balance that allows me to try and hold on to it. 100%. And what do you want now? Like, I know that you're about to go on tour, which I think is so insane and so amazing because you've got this like incredible podcast

where seemingly, you know, you're in your comfort zone, you come to your home even. It's so beautiful. It's such a setup. And now you're going to, and I know it's not the first time you've done it, but that idea of getting on stage in front of thousands and thousands of people,

people completely freaks me out. Like, what makes you want to do that? Do you know what it is? I just miss seeing people. You do? Yeah, because I started my, like I said, I started my career in rooms tinier than this and I'd sit with people for hours and hours and hours. And when I'm on the road, I get to look in people's eyes, you get to see people smile, cry, you get to hug, like, we're going to 15 cities, 15 surprise guests. We're going to do Q&A with the audience. Like, these are people who listen to on purpose every day, every week, every month of every year. I love it. And people are doing it when they walk their dog or in the kitchen or commuting from work, imagine we're all going to be in the same space. I think people are going to walk out with new boyfriends, girlfriends,

that's what's going to happen. That is what's going to happen. People are going to meet each other and they're going to be like, oh my goodness, did you listen to this episode? This was my favorite. I love him. It's just magical. I love that you're doing that. When you think about these new types of business ventures for you, like how do you think about it in the grand sort of sweet of things that you do in the brand like world of Jay Shetty. How does it fit into the mix? I think of good connection and even good business as what I heard years ago this term on a TED talk and it was called mass intimacy. It's this idea of how do you reach people at scale, but then have a really deep intimate conversation with one person. And I think any business, product, service, individual,

guide, wisdom, teacher, whatever it may be, we benefit when we can reach a lot of people, but then we reach people really deeply. And I think that's why brands do pop-ups, right? Why is a brand doing a pop-up? What's the point of it? It's because you want to meet people in person, the people who actually care about what you do, and you want to give them a hug

and you want to look them in the eye and say, thank you. And so to me it's that anything that's successful, powerful in the world has the ability to scale and the ability to go deep. You want to be mass and you want to be intimate. And this is what it comes back to everything we've been talking about. Everything has to be opposites.

Yes. There has to be strategies. and sincerity. There has to be art and there has to be action. It's all about embracing polarities. And if you don't embrace these opposites and you think you have to choose, you actually miss out on an experience. I went on tour two years ago. I did 40 cities across the world. I got so much out of that from the tour that I would never get from staring into a camera. Yeah. I can imagine you must get so much back from it. I feel like you've got so many fans. And when I think about someone who's success is so unbelievably well deserved, I really think about you. I think that everything you're

doing is, honestly, I think you're like a one of one. You know, when I think about people who I truly aspire to, creating a lane for themselves, I think about you. And I'm so grateful for the conversation. I think you're amazing. And I wish you, even like, if it's possible, even more success than you're already having because I believe in the good of what you're doing. And before I let you go, I have a couple of rapid fire questions that I want to ask you. Let's do it. Here are the rapid fire questions. All right, what's the first thing you do when you wake up?

The first thing I do is wonder what time my wife woke up. Because she always wakes up earlier than me to meditate. And I was walking to our meditation room going, what time did you wake up? She's like an hour ago. How long does she meditate for? Same. Yeah. I'm feeling very competitive.

She wakes about five. Yeah. That's the first thing I do is think about what time my wife woke up. I'm going to come and hang out at your house. What's the last thing you do before you go to bed? Tell my wife I love her. Yeah, I love telling her. She's always just like...

You are literally the cutest couple in the world. I don't know about that. No, I have a theory about you too. I feel like you saw each other and you both looked into each other's eyes and you're like, they're so beautiful. They're so beautiful. So I felt that about her. I feel like that's what happened. No, I'm...

No, no, no. No, no. No, no, that's true story. No. Yeah, the first time she knew to love you. Oh, the moment I saw her, I was... Yeah, exactly. What are you currently aspiring to in your business life?

Oh, I love that. I'm currently aspiring to study new models of business that haven't even been invented yet. I'm so fascinated by how the models that were successful in the last 25 years where Facebook, the biggest content company didn't make content, Uber the biggest taxi company didn't own any taxis. Like that idea was so of the business of last 25 years. I want to know what that next is. What is something that you're aspiring for in your personal life? Oh, I'm aspiring for, that's a great question.

What am I aspiring for right now, my personal life? It tells you how much I think about work too. I think it's making sure that the people who are getting older in my life really know how much they're loved. Because that's the reality of love and connection is that at some point you're going to have to say goodbye to the people you love. And as someone who doesn't want to die with any regrets, I'm constantly thinking about how do I make sure that all the people that are aging in my life, know how valuable they are, what an impact they had, that I make time for them. It's so easy to not make time for people as they age or they may be not as fun or mobile or active or whatever it may be.

And making time for that and giving energy to that person who gave you so much, that's a big thing I'm aspiring for because, yeah, when you're on a rocket ship, it's hard to be present in that way, especially with someone you don't live with. Yeah. And so I think, yeah, that's probably the thing I'm assuming. I'm so glad I asked, what's a book that changed your life? Oh, okay.

There's so many. There's so many. I'm going to give one that I don't think any guest will ever give. That's why I'll give it. It's the Bugwad Gita, which is the Wisdom Book of the East. It's 5,000 years old, 700 verses. But the most important part of it is it's a conversation between God and the most talented archer in the world.

So the most talented archer in the world is about to go to battle, but he's doubting himself. He's feeling anxious. He's feeling insecure. His bow is slipping from his hand. He doesn't know if he can shoot an arrow in this battle because he's confused about whether it should take place

and whether he should be the one fighting. And it's a conversation being God and this archer and it literally depicts all of the anxiety, the stress, this self-doubt that we feel. And the divinity or God is talking directly to The Archer in how to rebuild his confidence, how to find real worth, what it really means to live a life of value and purpose. And it's spectacular. And it's on the edge of a battle, which I think so many people feel like we're at now constantly. And God's speaking directly

to someone who's really talented, really gifted, but has forgotten that they are. And I think that's true for so many of us. So it's my favourite book. That's a fantastic answer. And what is something that you valued when you were starting out your career, but that you don't value now. Wow. That's such a great question. Did I ask you this? No, I don't know. That's a good question. What did I use to value at the start of mind? Yeah. Okay. I used to value people around me that were close to me really understanding what I was trying to do. And now I'm okay being misunderstood. I'm okay accepting that sometimes I have to do things that people around me don't understand because it's really hard for people to understand themselves, let alone understand someone else. And usually when

you're doing something new and fresh and different, people won't understand you. And if you do what they want you to do, they'll misunderstand you. If you do what you want to do, they'll misunderstand you. If you do nothing, they'll misunderstand you. If you do something, they'll misunderstand you. So people are going to misunderstand you no matter what you do. So you might as well do something you love. And I think for me, I used to really value at the beginning of my career that people really understood me and understood my purpose and saw it. And now I'm just like, I've got to see it because no one else can. And I can't for anyone else.

Even if I love someone really deeply, it's really hard to see and fully understand them because you're the only one who's lived through the struggle, the stress, the pain, the trauma, the moments you were crying. And you can explain that to your best friend. And your best friend can empathize. But they can't really understand it just because you can't for them. So it's too much pressure to put onto people. And that is such an amazing answer.

And I think it's so relevant when, you know, it's like for both of us, right, we moved away from where we're from. We sit in a very different context now to how we grew up. And it is difficult for you to explain that to anyone else. And how could you? How dare you almost, in fact, like even think that they would understand and that they could be, you know, beside you and get it and be super, you know, thoughtful about the decisions that you're making and feel the same way that you do.

It's just not possible. So I love that advice because I think for anyone who's doing something, you are looking for people to sympathise. You do want the people around you to be like, I'm fully with you. And so often they're like, I'm just not. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't get it.

I don't agree with it. And it's too much pressure. So learning to just like let it go and not be looking for it is very freeing. Yeah, just don't put pressure on that person and you'll have a better relationship with them and move on with your thing. And yeah, stop trying to be missed, stop trying to be understood. I wish that was my last question because that was a really good answer.

But we got your one. You saw it out in the edit. Yeah, just tweaking the edit. Okay, the last question for you is, so what is something that you value now that you didn't back then? I don't think I valued how people have such different values. And what I mean by that is when I married my wife, we literally moved to. New York three months after we got married because I got a job offer, the job offer of my dreams. And to me, I was like, we're moving to New York.

We're in our late 20s. Like, this is like the coolest thing ever. And for my wife, it was, New York was hell. You know, she wanted to be with her family. And in the beginning, I didn't get that. I was just kind of like, that's cool, but look at this life. We're building. And we weren't successful or we didn't have a lot, but it was cool to be in New York in our late 20s.

And I think over time, it made me realize just how. you can't make someone value what you value. You can only respect their values and they can respect yours. And I think over time I learned to respect that what made my wife special was her relationship with her parents and that I didn't have to build something to compete with that. I didn't have to win the value war. I had to just let her be that person because that's what makes her beautiful and bubbly and wonderful is this amazing relationship we have.

she has with her family. And what makes me, who I am, is my purpose and my mission and everything that I'm building. That's what makes me lovable. And so if she also tries to change me, it wouldn't work. And so I think I didn't realize the value of people's values back then. And now I deeply, deeply understand that you can't change someone's values. You can't make their values, your values. You can't even change yours. And it's better to help someone chase their goals and protect their values than it is to try and get them to change over to yours. And so that that is something that I deeply value now. I see the, I see why it's so important to follow their truth and their calling and their value because that's what makes them lovable and who they are. If you take

that away from them, you wouldn't love them anymore. That is like, there's so much truth there. We could just do a whole number of podcasts just on these two questions. They're really good questions. It's like, like, I'm blown away. That's so thoughtful and so there's so much truth in that. Yeah, I'm, that's, thank you so much for sharing that answer. I'm beside myself. We'll talk about it offline. Oh, my God, darling.

Jay, thank you so much. I love that you came and you did this for me. And I just have to tell you, when I texted you, I was like, oh, Jay, I'm starting a podcast. And I wondered if you could, you were like, what? Yes, I adore you. Like, I'm in, like, tell me where. And I was like, oh! You're your... Just she's going to do my podcast!

Literally. You're one of the most infectious energy people I've ever met. And we hit it off immediately since day one. So whether I see at a conference or an event or whatever it is, it's just you have the best energy. I couldn't not. Well, that's... And I love what you stand for. It means a lot.

It means so much coming from you, but, you know, words, people say a lot of stuff. And I think just the fact that you would... A, you come here, you are just an absolute dream to interview, but it really honestly means the world to me that you would just show up and that you would do it with such ease and such enthusiasm and such thoughtfulness. Like, anytime. No one's going to answer that question better than you. Anytime.

Any time. Thank you. I love seeing you. I love seeing you too. Thank you, darling. This is amazing. Thank you. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform.

While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode. you loved with a friend, we'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emmer Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliott Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Justin Dom is our senior producer.

Our producer is Kristen Torres. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shorts. Angela Paluso is our Booker, original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassiz. Social media by Olivia Holman. Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at Jonesworks and W&E, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mekyll, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed.

Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E, that's Aspire, A-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmaGreed.me. So before we wrap, a quick reminder that start with yourself is available for pre-order and tickets for the live shows are available now. Starting April 15th, we're coming to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, D-C, Boston, Atlanta and London. Visit Emagreed.com for tickets and full tour detail. I cannot wait.