Aspire with Emma Grede - Creating Success Word by Word with Tracee Ellis Ross

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

Tracee Ellis Ross has built an extraordinary life as an award-winning actor, producer, entrepreneur, and visionary founder of Pattern Beauty. But behind all of that success is a woman who believes deeply in the power of words. In this episode of Aspire, Emma Grede sits down with one of her favorite women — and businesswomen — on the planet to talk about how Tracee’s intentional approach to language, therapy, and clarity has shaped everything from her relationships to her leadership. Tracee opens up about how she manifests with purpose, the patience it takes for ideas to bake, and why redefining success starts with what you say to yourself. This is an inspiring, grounded conversation about becoming who you are and using your words to build the life and business you want. Listen if you’re ready to: -Speak more intentionally -Redefine what success means for you -Build confidence from the inside out -Learn how your language can shape your success To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am so excited to share my debut book with you or Start With Yourself, which is available now. You might have seen the headlines, you might have seen the social, but this book is exactly what I intended, a conversation that will make you think, and it's a blueprint for anyone who wants success without the toxic positivity. Start with yourself is about self-leadership, because wherever I go, women ask me how I got to where I am. But what you really want to know is how you can get there. So I'm doing what I do best, sharing and navigate keeping what's works for me in the hope that you can borrow from a philosophy that has served me so well. The truth is I'm not an expert. I've just lived it. I've made the mistakes.

I've had the failures and I've learned what actually works. It takes a lot. It takes the most. And this book is for anyone who's tired of feeling like a passenger in their own life. It's about taking responsibility for your thinking, managing your emotions and getting clear on your ideas and then knowing your next step. It's about picking yourself up after failure, being accountable, but also forgiving yourself, pushing for wins, and never, ever apologising for your ambition. It's also about challenging the rules that you've been told. There is no perfect time. Balance isn't the goal. Alignment is and there's nothing wrong with you wanting more. I'm precisely sure that the reason I've been so successful is

so I can share it with you. Start with yourself. My debut book is available now. Visit emigre.com to purchase the book, also available on Amazon. on, your favourite audio platforms and all good bookshops. Tracy Ellis Ross is one of my favourite women and one of the most intentional business women I know. She reminds us that the best ideas take time to bake and that success isn't just about what you do, it's about how clearly you speak it into existence. This week, on Aspire, Tracy shares how being deliberate with the way she speaks changed her mindset on everything.

family, aging, relationships and business. Over the next hour, Tracy is giving you the playbook to be who you are and get what you want. Lucy Ellis Ross, that's me. That is you. Thank you so much for being here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm really lucky to have you here. You are lucky.

I'm really lucky. There are a couple birthday parties we've been at, like, yes. Yeah, just a handful of times. And I'm like, wow, she is so unapologetically who she is. She is so full of life. She's designed this life, and it is, to me, one of the most unbelievable things about you is this level of self-assurance and how self-possessed you are as a woman. And I think for so many women, that's a really difficult place to get to in life. So that's where I want to start.

And I just wonder, have you always been like that? Has it taken you a while to get there? It's taken me a long time. And it's interesting because as you say that, I'm like, do I feel self-assured? I have a real genuine sense of who I am. It took me a long time to get to know myself, to have the courage to be that person, and then to live as that person,

has just come in the last, I would say, six to seven years. Oh, really? Yeah, to actually live as that person. And I actually look forward to what is to come because I feel like I still have a sense of knowing what is right for me, but not always having the courage to do that. You know, sometimes I feel like I should do this. So I do look forward to the other.

But I think I've always been, I've always been this person. I've always had a very big personality. I've always known what I liked. I actually had an experience today that was fascinating. So I still have all of my magazines from the 80s. You do? You're a magazine freak. So I was a magazine freak.

I loved Sundays and magazines. Like, I just loved magazines. Asher magazines? Fashion magazines. and like Casa Home, like also decor magazines, mostly fashion. And when my brothers, who were 15 and 16 years younger than me, when they got old enough, they were going through them looking for naked pictures. And so my mom all of a sudden, I was out here in L.A., and she was like a moving,

had sent a moving truck with all of my magazines. And I have them all. And this morning, I was looking through them and realized something I hadn't realized. I had been dog earring the pages of the, the things I loved in the magazine. So I opened a magazine from 1989, and there were all these dog-eared pages. And I was like, wow, I was like in my teens. And what I looked at and thought, wow, I became this person. And I think of the TV shows I watched. I watched the Bionic woman, Cagney and Lacey, Kate and Alley, Charlie's Angels, these shows led by women, Carol Burnett,

Lucille Ball, who could leap tall buildings and live out their dreams and live a life that to others seemed like it was meant for men. And I seemed to have become this woman. And I think it was that I've always been purposeful about what I love and what was of interest to me, my sense of curiosity. And so it definitely curated me in a purposeful and intentional direction. And I stand here at 52 and like opening up that magazine thinking, God, I dog eared this at 17 years old, 16 years old, and thinking, this is how I dress. Like, this is how I look now. You manifested it.

It's fascinating. Do you believe in manifestation? Like, do you believe that, like, you were doing something through all of that dog you and collecting? Can I tell you something that I said to my therapist when I, I've been working with this therapist that I'm with for maybe 10 years? And the first thing I said to her when I was interviewing to see if we were a match is I said, the thing about me is I manifest really quickly. So I have to be intentional. about what I language and the words that I use. And so what I like to do is spend time in therapy being clear about what it is that I want.

Oh, first of all, you just said too many good things there. You manifest really quickly, which is super interesting. I want to get into that, but you language really purposefully. Yes. So I, first of all, I'm obsessed with that. Because I know that I manifest quickly. Wow. And so I don't want to be manifesting the wrong stuff, right?

And I do spend a lot of time saying out loud like, thank you. Like, whoa. Like, I'll have moments. I'm thinking, oh, I want this thing. I want this thing. And then a thing comes. And I'm like, oh, my God, that was the thing. It's in a different form than I could have imagined.

But, like, that's the thing. But that's the thing. That's the thing that you asked for. I mean, I find it so fascinating as someone who, like, I grew up worshipping the pages of magazines. And I didn't doggie them, but I used to tear them out and create collages. And I would be like, this is the house. see I'm going to have, and this was what my wardrobe would look like and all the pieces that would make up.

Like it was a big thing for me. You used to call them manifestation boards. When I was little, that was just a collage. You know, it was just me like making the bad room that I had like slightly better. But it's so interesting because years later, I will never forget it sitting there having had my first child. And I started crying. I was in this new house that we'd bought. And my husband was like, it's amazing, this new kid.

And I was like, no, it's amazing because I manifested this exact situation. with the Christmas tree there and the window there and that credenza that, like, I drew this, I put this thing together 20 years ago. And so I find that so interesting that you know that power about yourself. I do know that power. I also, even more than that, understand the balance of what is not in my hands and letting go and allowing things that are better than I could have imagined and also sometimes exactly not what I imagined. I mean, there are parts of my life that I'm like, really? Because I've manifested these other things. What's happening? I don't want that.

I didn't ask for that. Or like, what is this? And sort of having a balance and a sense of allowing and grace and open-handedness along with being intentional about where I want to go. Talk to me a little bit about your upbringing because you grew up obviously. You grew up in the spotlight, one could say. When my mom did, yeah. You know, but it would have been it would have been around you, right? You grew up here and, you know, I just found it in Switzerland too. But you've carved out a career, Tracy, all of your own. Like, it's so interesting because you really stand completely on your own.

And I wonder if there's something that, you know, from your childhood that has really informed who you are that we would find surprising. It was born here in Los Angeles. I went to the center for early education before it was the center. We moved to New York in 77, 78, when my mom was going to. to do the whiz. We lived in a hotel, the 31st floor of the Sherry Netherlands Hotel. I have a very abundant childhood full of very unique experience. Andy Warhol painted me and my sisters. Francesco Scofulo photographed us. Do you have that painting? Her Brits photographed us numerous

times and me numerous times. Experiences that are just not normal. Michael Jackson, Marvin Gay, calling our photos, like just things that are just absolutely not. But that was That was your norm. That was my normal. That was your Wednesday. But I will say that the thing about it is that my mom is a mom before she is anything else. So my mom, for example, recorded at night while we were sleeping. She would put us to bed at night, then go record. Then she would wake us up in the morning and sit with us for breakfast. My mom never left the house for longer than a week. She would commute back and forth. And then in the summer and Christmas vacation, we would create home somewhere. We lived in Rome. And then she would commute to her shows every night. She was super mom. She was super mom. So I had a very anchored home life that was based in breakfast, lunch, and dinner, going to school, my mom handling doctor's appointments, all that, all while doing the Central Park concert. In the span of 79 to 80-something, my mom put out an album a year, did TV specials, did the... How did she do this? I have no idea.

I have no idea. And I never heard, not now I don't have time. Never heard it. So I was raised, first of all, I was born because I was wanted. My life has been held from that place. My mom always said she wanted us to start from her shoulders, so anything she had learned, she wanted us to start from there. That's a lovely phrase.

It's a lovely phrase. People say you grew up in your mom's shadow. I feel that I grew up in her embrace. And so I come from a world where I saw a woman who utilized glamour and her voice for agency that gave her a sense of power. that's what I equated beauty and fashion with. I saw a woman who was a businesswoman, first and foremost, who was in charge of her careers, signed her own checks. She wasn't a celebrity or a person who people were doing things on her behalf and she didn't know what they were. She was waking us up in

the morning and doing all that, but also being a businesswoman. So she set a template for me of what was possible. This idea that you could only be one and not the other was not true in my childhood. So I saw the bigness of a life that you also had to hold yourself. So I remember people always say dream big, but what I learned in my childhood was dream big, but know that you're the one that's going to be doing the work. You are going to do the work to pull that up the hill. And so dream at a pace and in a way that you can actually maintain what it takes to do that. And my mom has always been incredibly purposeful.

So I saw all of those things up close and personal. I was witness to them. And that, I think, is what sent me on a path, along with the television shows that I watched. And so I saw a combination of women that were not at all limited by the world's idea of the real estate a woman should take up. But instead, dream what you want and go build that.

It's so interesting to me because I've read that you credit your mom, Diana Ross, but teaching you that you don't need a man to build the life I want. And I read that you said, I said, I come from a lot of abundance, but all of the abundance that I enjoy is mine that I've built. And building my own life has made me very aware of what my mother built on her own and what it took for her to do that.

Will you tell me just a bit more about that? You know, I don't know that my mom said you don't need a man. I mean, don't get me wrong. And, like, I would love a partner. And I've had some wonderful dating, you know what I mean? And some wonderful relationships. So it's not that. I just haven't found the person that is my life partner yet.

What I will say is that this was the actual. actually the phrase my mom said, I was a big shopper as a child. Has that changed, Tracy? No, it has not. But now at least I'm spending my own money because my mom was like, little girl, what is happening here? What are you doing? She was like, what is going on? Because I used to literally go into my mom and plead a case for why I needed to shop more than just once a year for school shopping.

She was like, I don't get it? We did the school shopping. And I'm like, I know, but don't you understand that designers come out with new seasons of clothes? She was like, little girl. get out of here. But she said to me once, she came and she was like, I'm going to tell you something, little girl, your hair products alone are going to break the bank. She was like, it's enough. There's shampoo and conditioner and a brush in the shower. You're good. She said, so either you're going to have to get yourself a really rich husband or a really great job.

And I ended up building my own hair company, beauty company, honestly, because we just launched by. I saw that. And I've built a really big, beautiful life, and I've had a big job. I keep having big jobs. You keep having big jobs. Over and over. Over and over. Was there another woman? or has there been another woman in your life that has inspired you in the same way? So many. I mean, I think I could collect them. I mean, Vivian Westwood and the fact that she just continued to stay vibrant, sexy, creative, fertile, beautiful. Beautiful.

Just until her last day, it was just stunning. Michelle Obama, I mean, there's so many women. Alphrey Woodard, there's, like, there's women that I hear these gems from them that I hold on to that help me have helped me to build this life that I have around me. I think people talk about how to get what you. you want, I think it's more important to learn how to be who you are. The world around you will be built out of that. But if you're just trying to get the what you want, I think you miss the juicy, joyful and robust part of life that is being able to appreciate and enjoy and love what you have

around you. You know, and there's a, do you know that Pima Chodron quote? Oh, which one? So the one where she's like, in your current state, wait, I'm going to have the quote. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know it, we'll find it. It's wonderful. I mean, Pima Children, I just love everything she's ever written ever. When did you find those books? I was going through a terrible breakup. It was maybe 15 or 16 years ago, and when things fall apart came to me. And it was the first time I felt like somebody sat down next to me. I didn't meet her. I just mean metaphorically, sat down next to me and didn't tell me that where I was was my fault, didn't tell me that where I was was because I had done something wrong, just that it was my fault.

Yeah. And that it was actually okay for me to be where I was and that the answer to moving out of that was actually to be with what I was feeling. And that the fastest way through to where I wanted to go was by actually being where I was. And I was like... And I was like, what? Because I felt like I was supposed to I am myself into better feelings. And I was like, no. And it taught me a huge lesson in my life.

You strike me as someone who is so fiercely independent, and I wonder, like, is that something that's very conscious for you, or is it just who you are? I think it's who I am. Yeah. Yeah. It used to bother me because I felt like I was doing something wrong. But, you know, I come from a really big family, and I'm a person that can, I love to sleep with in the middle of the sound of all of it, you know what I mean?

Like, just in the middle of the cacophony of the family. So I'm both independent and not. I'm very comfortable with myself. I'm comfortable with my own company. I have a sense of how to hold counsel for myself. In that sense, I'm very independent. But I'm also such a, like, with my friends and the people that I'm really, like, safe with, like I'm like a barnacle.

Like, you can't let go on me. I'm a barricle lady. Like, I'm going nowhere. Chosen family. I don't know what to tell you. Are you famously single at this point? Because I feel like every time I read about you, I read something. First of all.

I want to go here. Slightly exhausting. I mean, I'm like, guys, can't you just? Like, it's slightly exhausting because I'm like, you, sometimes people talk about it as if I have tried to be a poster child for that. I'm like, no, that's just the facts. Okay. I also don't publicize when I am dating. Well, fair.

Okay. So people, we don't talk about that. That's okay. You can tell us if you want, Tracing. We're going to keep that as is. I like that to be private. Well, because, you know, here's the thing. When you start dating someone, you don't want public point of view about something that's private as you're trying to discover if it works for you or not.

Yeah, there's that. I don't do that. I have not been chronically single. I just don't, I haven't, I haven't done, what do they call it? A soft, a launch, a soft launch? I haven't done a soft launch. I haven't done a soft launch. Isn't that, isn't that what they call it? But it feels like it's a choice. Do you feel like that's very misunderstood about you? I'll tell you what's a choice is that I'm not going to date someone just to date someone to have someone to date. But this is what I love about you. I'm going to date a person that's a match. We were all told that. We were all raised with this idea that's like, well, listen, love, It's like times are running out.

Do you know how many people have done that to me? Of course. Do you know how many famous people have done that to me? No. I swear to God, like just men that you're just like, that's not nice? Yes. Or my favorite question is, have you ever thought about having kids? No, it's never crossed my mind.

Never occurred to me. I'm so glad you brought it up. This whole vagina has been here and I never thought about it, not once. I've said to somebody in an interview, will you please get out of my womb? Yeah, you should. Just get out of my womb. You should. I have a constant monthly reminder that I have an ability to do.

that. Oh my God, that's a whole never podcast. I don't even have, I don't have those questions. Not anymore. No, that's okay. But lucky you, by the way. Congratulations. Anyway, but the thing about my singledom is I don't mind the conversation because it allows me to transform that question into the other thing, which is how am I choicefully living my life and how am I curating a life that actually matches where I am and how am I not waiting for another person or to get to a certain place or a certain weight or a certain age or a certain whatever to do the things that I want to do that bring me joy. And how can I walk towards those things? And that's where the solo travel show came from. It's something that I always do.

And it's something that has been a big part of me living out loud for who I am. And also, by the way, it's been a long discovery of what do I consider fun? Yeah. Like other people's fun is not my version of fun. And so I have to figure out how to make that real for me. And that's why now I look around and I'm like, oh, my life looks like me. It actually matches who I am. Aw. Pay off your home. Travel for life. Drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly Big Board Buckslot machine by Aristocrat Gaming, Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is giving one person a $1.6 million dream package. The biggest prize in Yamava's history. Club Serrano members can earn daily instant prizes and secure a spot in the finale May 28th.

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Download the Priceline app or visitpriceline.com and book your next trip today. Go to your happy price, price line. What do you wish other women, women in their 20s and their 30s, that are still walking around with this conditioning, that they're supposed to do a set of things when it comes to marriage and children? What do you say to women? Is that what you want or is that some tape in your head from somebody else? Because often it's the ladder.

Often it is, and also, what do you want from it? You know, I, not because of what my mom told me, but because of what society told me, I grew up dreaming of my wedding. And to a certain extent, I wish I had spent more time younger, dreaming of my life. I mean, can you imagine what it would look like? Hello. Dreaming of just the life. And not only the life I want, but what is it that I want to give back to the world? What is it that is my gift, my purpose, my reason for being, that I want to share with

other people. And that's not to say that you shouldn't dream of the partner you want. But by the way, be specific. Do you want what someone looks like or do you want what they make you feel like? And not even what they make you feel like, what you feel around them. Yes. This is, by the way, a question that I tell people. How do you feel when you're around them? This is something I do when dating. There's two things that are really great tricks. Give it to us. Great tricks. One is take a piece of paper. On the front, write the facts. On the back, write the back, write the fantasy. Oh. So that you're clear, okay, this is which. Correct. And not two pieces of paper where you can look at them at the same time and get confused. Flip it over. Like, oh my God,

I love his friends. Oh my God, so-and-so is going to come to my wedding is on the other side. You know, I don't know what those things are, right? But that is one. The other that is key is on that first date, second date, third date, every date. Ask yourself, go on that date, leave the date and ask yourself how you feel. Do I feel safe? Do I feel seen? Do I feel sexy? Or do I feel like, oh my God, I didn't wear the right thing and da-da-da-da-da. That's not a good feeling.

Do you feel like, like I've had people ask me, this is the worst thing to start with a guy on a date when they say, why are you still single? So my favorite thing to answer is, oh, because I'm broken. Oh, you didn't know? Like, what are you asking me? What are you asking? What are you asking me? What are the answer to that question? I don't know.

I don't know because I gave me a joke. It looks like you. Like, all the fuck. What are you asking me? It's the wrong question. Yeah. It's the wrong question. Yeah.

But it does give you some sort of indication of the way they're thinking about things, right? So I think asking yourself the right questions, I have a friend who always says sometimes the questions are more important than the answers that you get so that you stay curious in the right way for yourself. But in terms of younger people or anybody, honestly, any woman, not just women, all people, even men, anyone, no matter who you date, what is it that you want? What is it that you want? And if you don't know, that's okay. Ask yourself the questions. Just keep living and you can figure it out later. Correct. Yes. And keep asking yourself those questions.

The key is do not go through your life asleep and then ask yourself, how did I end up here? Because you will end up somewhere. And if you don't like it and you're 35, it's a lot harder to make those changes. You can make them. You can make changes at any age. But if you just, keep floating along where life takes you without asking yourself what you like. And by the way, it's very hard to know what you like if you don't know who you are. And many people were raised in environments where they didn't have a chance to discover who they are. Many people have been in lives that are about surviving and they don't have time to ask themselves those questions. But you can carve out five minutes a night and say, what did I like about today? What work today?

Yeah. And how do I find more of that? Correct. Yes. What felt good today? What, and then, oh, that felt good? What felt good about it? And name it. And really understand that for yourself and go into that much detail because you will start to build the blocks of, oh, I'm a person who a six-person dinner is too many. Yes. Start small.

What did I like about today? What felt good today? I had a good day. Why did I have a good day? Okay. It was when I was with that person. And then you might mistake it and think, that's a person I want to be around. what was it about that person? Was it you or was it them? And then you start to sort of build sort of a roster

for yourself that can become a roadmap. For example, social media does not show us process. It doesn't show us how you got there. That's part of what you're doing in this podcast, right? Like what are the pieces? How do you think about life? Yes. What are the questions that you do ask yourself? How do you discover that? How do you find that out? Like, for example, I have learned there's things I'm really good at and there's things I'm not so great at. You need to know that. You need to know that. And my favorite is to remember, I never want to think I know everything. I want to remain teachable.

One million percent, but you need that both in your business life and in your personal life. Correct. And they both mirror each other. That. You know, and I have built my business life the same way I have built my personal life. And I do want to say to people, it is not because of the abundance of. that I come from, that I have had this space to do that. I have carved out the visioning time, the dreaming time, meditation, where I'm looking at things. You've clearly done a lot of work.

It has been like chewing on ground glass. You say I'm comfortable in my skin. I was not. I was not. I have learned how to be comfortable. You've learned to be. But what strikes me about you, Tracy, is that you have an incredibly powerful mindset. And again, as I was reading so much and researching about you, one of the things that I love is this sort of level of honesty that you seem to have with yourself. And I love that you said somewhere that, you know, it's okay to not feel good all the time. And when you're, I mean, first of all, when you're just a woman living your life, but certainly when you're a woman running a company and trying to build something and go after your dreams and fulfill your ambition, you have really shit days. You have really shitty moments. And I wanted to ask you a little bit about that

and how you've got comfortable just like not always being fine. Well, it's just true. I think the difference for me is that I don't try and reach above it. I try and make space around it. Yes, I manifest and use my words clearly. But I am not a believer in the ask and it's given thing of positive thinking. I am a believer in a sense of wholeness for myself. So I make space for being afraid. I make space for bad days. I make space for pain.

I make space for mistakes. And the key to that for me is, as I said, creating a space around it and acknowledging, like, you feel like crap and we still got to get up and go. And we have things to do. I mean, I've had to be my funniest on my worst days. I have a life where sometimes I have,

to be beautiful on days when I feel horrible and feel not pretty. And by the way, one of my biggest lessons on that was my stepfather passed away. And we had a show, this was years ago, thank you very much. But we had a show to take, girlfriends. It was on a Tuesday. And we didn't, we let go of the studio audience, but I continue to show up. And I remember learning something in myself that there is, for me, always a place and a part of me that is okay.

and that I could lean to that person. That's not to say that I wasn't acknowledging that I was in shock, that I was frightened, that I was terrified about what it meant. I just didn't know what it meant in that moment. And I was deeply sad. But there was also a part of me that was okay. And that's different from the show must always go on. That's a very different thing.

No, that's like an internal tool, like a place that you can get to that's like some type of inner strengths. Yes. And so that was a life lesson for me. And I do talk about the hard moments, and I did this on the show as well, for a sense of transparency because I have to say that I haven't seen enough examples of that.

And what the result has been is me feeling ashamed. Yeah, well, I mean, there aren't enough examples of that. No. But I wonder, like, how do you even show up authentically in the public eye without getting lost in the performance of it all? I'm softer. I allow those parts of me to call the people that can support me. I mean, I've had moments when I've gotten so overwhelmed

in big, wonderful moments of my life. I remember crying on my kitchen floor and calling, I don't know if it was my sister or one of my best friends and saying, like, I don't know if I'm built for this. Like, maybe I just can't do it. Like, it's too much and it's too hard. And then I got it all out, and I was like, all right, I'm going to go into Harry.

and makeup. You know what I mean? Like, because, and it's like that's the imposter syndrome, right? That's it. But give it space. Give it voice. Let it be heard by somebody who can hold it with love and love you. Yeah, and have those people. And love you when you can't love yourself. Yes. I don't bring, I'm not going to bring that to social media. I'm not looking for people I don't know to support me in that. But then you bring the part of you that is present and can hold it. You know, I had to do something recently. And I have a text thread with friends. I'm like, guys, I'm not feeling. feeling up for this, but I am going to suit up and allow, you know, God to proceed me in this moment and allow if can I connect. This is what I always say to myself. I use the may I's, by the way.

Not the Iams. I call them the may Is. What are the may I? I. I put may I before stuff because may I am, feels like it honors where I am and invites me to where I want to go. And so- You said you were purposeful with the language. Uh-huh. Okay. So I'm like, may I, lean into the part of me that is deeply grateful for this event that I'm going to, for this opportunity, for what it is celebrating, and may I let the soft parts of me stay as soft as they are as I walk into this from a place of gratitude? Or sometimes I'll do, may I be of service in this moment? Because I am not feeling up to anything. May I be of service and know that I'm there to be of service to what I'm going to do versus going there to get something for me.

And those kinds of things help me get through some moments, lots of moments in my life and my career, that instead of being like, I'm okay, I'm totally fine because I find that when I do that, weird stuff comes out of the side of my neck. It really does. But you really don't want to be saying. No, no, no, no, it really does.

And also it's dishonest with yourself. So this is actually a way of honoring your feelings, but still having the strength and being able to move through something. And then sometimes things don't go well. And by the way, and then all you do is you take accountability. Yeah. I was crappy. Yeah.

That was not great. And I really wish I could have done that better. And I'm sorry. And I really, and by the way, the biggest amends and accountability is to be corrective in your behavior. And I will say that we all of us, so many of us know better but don't do better. And that's okay. We're human beings. But the least you can do is keep trying.

We can't be responsible for our first thought, but we can definitely be responsible for our second one. We can't always be responsible for our first action, but we can be for our second. I feel like I'm in Tracy Church. I don't know if I can ask the questions because I'm just like, I'm in learning, though. You really are the rich auntie of all of our dreams. Like I'm like, somebody give me a pencil. I'm like, really? Give me a pool and a cocktail.

And then I can give you them rich fonte. Rich Fonty auntie vibes. You and I in a pool. Let's do this podcast. All of the podcast in the book. In the pool? Episode two. Very good.

Yeah. It's going to happen. Okay. So give me this. If you were giving, because I do really look at you as someone who's got such nuggets and so much great advice, but what would, what kind of advice would you give to a woman that is trying to truly, like, design a life of her own? Get a journal. Start with yourself.

And backtrack into, okay, let's start with today. How was it? How did I honor myself? Like, start with some questions, right? How did I honor myself today? What went well today? What didn't go well today? What feels scary about what I'm feeling today? What do I have resentment towards about today? What do I have gratitude about towards today? And maybe do that for a short period of time of a week or two weeks and then comb back through it with a pen and a highlighter. Circle the things that resonate as the whoppers, not the surface stuff, but like the wopper. and then take those and put those on another piece of paper and be with those for a bit. And see if you can start asking yourself questions from there. Oh, yeah.

What is the feeling I want from my life? And what things in my life that already exists give me those feelings? And then, is there a job I can build out of that? Is there a life I can build out of that? Is there a company I can build out of that? What do I do better than anybody else? What do I do that I get lost doing and can't help but? to just keep doing it.

Like somebody has to stop me from doing it. And how do I build something from there? Like, what are those things in your life that allow your heart to sing? And at the same time, give yourself room that you might need to try stuff and then go, that didn't work, you know? And I think you really can do that at any age. You know, I say to people like any age, any age. Like, if you don't have enough joy in your life, what is joy for you?

Yeah. What does that look like? You have to figure. You have to know. You've got to know. You've got to know. I mean, being, first of all, for my whole life, I've had a diary. I still have the very embarrassing diaries from like 12 years. The ones with the locks on them? Yeah, with the locks. Why does it? It doesn't big bubble writing. No, you know, three words on a line type thing. But still to this day, I journal, and it is one of the most powerful tools for figuring out my own stuff. Like me and me. And it's different than typing.

No, it's, it has to be. It's got to come out. Like, it has to come out. Like, it has to come out. Like it has to come out and through you, and then when you go back. But I love that as a piece of advice for starting to understand what you need and what you want and who you are. And having that ability to go back and see how you've changed and what state the same and what you need to do. It's actually a magnificent piece of advice. It's a really good tool. Yeah. So another piece that I do is, for example, when you know when you get like overwhelmed and anxious and something's upsetting you, right?

No. Never heard of that? Okay. Well, sometimes that happens to me, Emma. So I will do my list, right? I resent. I'm afraid, whatever those things are over and get it all out. Get it out.

And I do the circles of the deep ones, the ones that are like the big ones. Then I create a prayer out of that. Oh, you do? I take those words and I try and flip them. What is the opposite of that? What is the feeling that that is the feeling that is. is not giving me that I want. And then I create a prayer that is, may I remember that I am, so I'm afraid I will never find partnership. Say that's there, right? May I remember that I am worthy

of belonging and connection? I don't know. And then whenever that anxiety comes up, that's what I say. So I end up with these prayers that match that particular hurt in my soul. Yeah. And then next, like, I'll look back because sometimes I have a little card. I'll look back and I'll be like, oh, that got solved. At least it got healed for a bit. You know what I mean?

And I might have to go back to it. But that anxiety, that part of me, that hurt in that little special little nook that's hidden in my heart has something that answers it specifically. I really want people to take that in because as a mom and I have two girls, that is something I'm going to teach them because to be able to create that for yourself, to take that which is bothering you and that which is weighing you down

and to be able to flip it and then use what you've created as a way of reinforced. I mean, that's magical. That is everyone who is listening to this right now needs to rewind that bit and write it down and do that for themselves. And I'm going to give you that same example,

if I may, for a physical standpoint. Please. So I have specific injuries. At 52, you'll find that the weird, funny ways that you've been sitting your whole life create something fascinating in your body, right? So I have specific injuries. Now, if somebody from a general place looked at my body, they would be like, okay, so you need to strengthen your hamstrings. But here's the thing. It's just this part of my hamstring, right? So I have somebody that has helped me come up with exercises for a specific part of the hamstring. And it's designed for me.

Now, that's something, and the only reason I tell that story is because if you take it out of the emotional and you put it into something physical, sometimes it's easier for people to understand. Strengthening my entire hamstring is not the issue. It's this little bit that, by the way, most people, when watching me move, wouldn't even think I had a weak hamstring. But specificity really matters. And it's somebody, so you know yourself better than anybody else. If you can just listen, really, and give yourself the tool to get to those places,

you will have an unbreakable, unshakable foundation for your life that is built on you. Heaven. Heaven. Thank you for that. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate. Instead, use Indeed-sponsored jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast. It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate C.

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Find your perfect product at Bose.com. I really want to talk to you about leadership and business. I have been using the heat protector, and I love it. Amazing. First of all, I'm very happy that you now stock in the UK because I was the person from Sephing from Sephora. I was the one that told you. I was like, girl, we've got.

You know, he's in boots. I was like, guys, it's in boots. I think they just wanted to buy it, basically. I was just fooled into the whole thing. But it's really impressive. And yesterday, I did see that you've expanded the brand. So outside of hair, into body. So the reason I called it pattern beauty and not pattern hair was because I always knew it was on the road map.

Yes. Did you do a packaging change or is that just for that? For body. Okay. For body. So it's still bold and beautiful, but it has its own category, its own color. Yeah. So obviously you were an actress that took this leap into business.

Yeah. And I know for so. many people like doing that can feel so frightening and so scary. So what gave you the idea that you could be as successful as you've been? Oh, I had no idea was going to be successful. No, you didn't. No, no, no, no, no. So you didn't take that. You didn't, but you weren't like, okay, this is going to be a thing and it's going to be great. It is going to be what it is. Not at all. Let me be clear. Yes, I was an actress and that was my window in to have certain conversations, but I am a consumer. And that's what my pathway to being a business, entrepreneur, business

builder was as a consumer. And what I knew as a consumer and a beauty consumer and a shopper in general was that my entire childhood and life around hair products, there was something missing. And I kept thinking, I didn't know it was going to be me, but I kept thinking, why is the same products that my mom and my grandma, my aunt's, like, why is it the same products? Why is the same few products in the corner? Why is there nothing new? Why can I, why can I not find products that are actually for the way my hair grows out of my head and are not trying to straighten my hair. Why are the products that are for curle?

They say for curly hair don't work on me. So I kept saying, oh my God, it would be so amazing. And that was when my mom had that conversation. She was like, please stop buying products. You can't keep buying all these expensive products. This is insane. And that was another gripe I had. I had so much hair, you would buy this little thing for $45.

And it was two shampoos, two conditioners in there. The shampoo was always bigger than the conditioner. But I used more conditioner than I used shampoo. these were all the things. I was like, why has no one thought of this? I don't understand. Why did they say put a dime size when I need a handful?

Like, I just never understood. And so I kept thinking, my God, wouldn't it be amazing if someone had a line of products that looked beautiful and I could use the whole line on my hair and it looked beautiful on my counter,

blah, blah, blah. Wouldn't it be amazing if someone actually made enough conditioner that it was more conditioner than shampoo? How long did you say this for? This was my entire growing up. And then for 10 years, I wrote my first hair care brand pitch

when girlfriends finished. Oh. And you launched it when? It took 11 years to get on shelves. First of all, we should say that story more because everybody imagines it's like an overnight success. No, no, no, no. So it took you, Tracy Ellis-off. Ten years.

Ten years. And I want to be very clear with people. This was 10 years and nobody thought it should be coming from me. This was before celebrity brands existed. I'm the founder. So that is often different, whereas people bring somebody in. But pattern was built as a consultant. who saw a blank space in the industry that just was not being serviced. And during the process,

and I will, this is practical for you, this is a great one to talk about here, I learned a process around knows that has been instrumental in my entire life, but particularly as a business builder. Because you were told no. So many times, in so many different ways. I will not bore you with all the stories, but I'll tell you some of the headlines that were really interesting. So I wrote my first hair care brand pitch. In that brand pitch, I had the original list of the skews that became the 11 skews. And the clear indication I had was that I wanted to, at the time, this is the way I said it, and now the way I say it. I wanted to shift the paradigm for how hair care was marketed to textured hair and black people. Didn't understand it. Marketing is based on telling the consumer they have a problem and shaming them into buying something they need to fix the problem. Number one, I don't think that works as a consumer. I am a consumer. I shop the most when I feel good. That's number one.

Number two, the other piece of it, as a black consumer and someone with textured hair, inherently that is problematic from a systemic point of view to tell me that my hair is a problem because it's not. I wanted to build a company that was based on the celebration of black beauty. Now, I don't believe that hair has a race or a gender, but textured hair is specific, and it needs more hydration. And there was never a part of you that just thought, I'm just going to create a hair care brand and make it for as many customers as possible?

No. No. You were like, there is, I need to feel this. Yes. Yes. And I need to develop a product. And by the way, a lot of people, some of the nose were put your name and the name of the company on formulas that exist.

I said, no, I need to find manufacturers that can work with me and chemists that can work with me to solve for the problems that I have always experienced in all of the products that I've used. So give me the thing. So you go, let's start at year one. You write the pitch, you say it needs to be this amount of products. My manager reads it. What do you go into?

My manager reads it and says, we should do a line of wigs. Okay. Thank you. Then another manager reads it and said, we should do a hair TV show. Now, these were the only people I have access to, right? I was not, I don't come from a family of business people that are in the corporate world. I don't know how you turn an idea into goop. Didn't know any of those things.

So then I went to another person who made me cry and was like, why would you an actor? you need to partner with a hairstylist. I was like, no, I don't, because hairstylists have not known how to do my hair. And you cried? You cried with a no? She was very angry with me the way she said it. She was like, she shamed me.

But the thing that was interesting to me was I also, in that no, got clear. So I'm going to tell you a couple of stories and tell you what my experiences and how I use knows. So she was like, why you should partner with a hairstylist. I said, no, because the majority of hairstyles don't know how to do my hair. They know how to make my hair straight. They know how to braid my hair. They know how to do other things.

They don't know how to do my hair the way I do my hair when it's out and big. Yeah. But what I learned is the no, take it in. Have the feelings, be disappointed or whatever that is. And then once the feelings have subsided and you can actually take it in and learn from it, ask yourself some questions. Yes. Do you agree?

Is the no because you agree? Maybe it is. maybe your idea isn't good enough. Do you not agree? Okay, if you don't agree, why do you think they said no? Is it because they're the wrong person? Or is it because you didn't express yourself in a clear way that was effective to get what you wanted across? And when you answer those questions, you get to get more clear each time.

So every no brought me closer. By the time I found my retail partners... And I'm imagining, Tracy, some of those nos would have also been useful. Some of those nose were right and you would have learned from them, right? And been like, okay, like maybe I haven't thought about this thing. Correct. And some of those nose were because culturally, people did not understand the importance, the buying power and the beauty of textured hair.

Sometimes that meant that's what I had to express more clearly and teach people. Was it experiential teaching or was it data? I don't know. I had to do that. So we went through all these different phases. And by the way, the other thing with Pattern is I got my retail partners first before I had business partners. Oh, you did?

Correct. So you had Sephora on board? No, Alta. Alta. It was Alta from day one. Oh, wow. Wow, it's so funny because I, maybe it's just where I find you. And Priya and Artemis were in the original meeting I had with the two of them.

I flew myself to their offices. And I ended up starting with Alta. and now I'm at Sephora as well. Well, now you're in a lot of places. Yes. Now we have 11 retail partners. Because, I mean, for people that don't know, I mean, patent has been, it was a revelation in the industry.

And I mean, I say this, I love the product, I use the product, I've gifted the product. I really think it is such an incredible brand proposition that you had. And I think that you did an amazing job of bringing that to life. But I was really interested in the fact that. that you went, you self-funded this brand, right? You decided that, oh, I thought you self-funded. You raised money? I found business partners, and they are.

Oh, wait a minute. This is not what I thought that you went out and you raised that. You used your own money. No, and I- Right from the get-go. And I purposely did not. So someone told me early on not to use my own money. I will also tell you I'm a black actress in Hollywood.

I did not have that money to use. Well, that is not the idea that everybody has of you. I would imagine that you could just, you know, start a brand and you'd be fine. You'd just take your own money and do that? No. So, and do you regret that decision? Not at all. No.

I'm a majority owner. Oh, so you're still a majority. You just did a great deal. Okay, so somebody else put the money up for it, but you still own the majority. Maybe that's where I got it wrong. I have full creative control. Amazing. And I am majority owner of the company.

The difference is I brought this fully fledged idea to my business partners. And when I brought it to them, I already had. retail partners. Right. Yeah. So you were like, here's the thing. This is how we're going to sell it. All I need is actually the capital to make it operational. Yeah, correct. Amazing. Really amazing. And how's it going for you? It's fantastic. It's going pretty well. I mean, you know, I really love being a founder and a CEO and I have my arms wrapped completely around marketing, PD, narrative, you know, just all of it. And your partners are working on operations predominantly? Yeah, I have a co-CEO that oversees all operations and my business partners,

there's a lot of shared services with them. HR is there, but like mostly we are in-house, 47, 47 in-house employees. That's incredible. What have you learned about leadership? Because I guess it's so different from the world, the entertainment world that you come from. Is it not? Is it not? No. In what ways are they similar? So it's very similar to being a producer. I think being a CEO. It's about team building. It is about infrastructure and protocols and strategy and sort of working effectively and efficiently. Where are your strengths? My strengths are in storytelling, creativity, thinking outside the box. I find data to be frustrating. I know a lot of people, it's incredibly important, particularly in operations, et cetera, but data tells you a snapshot of the past and I'm a visioner

for future. So I don't care. You know what I mean? Like I have gut instinct and that's where I lead. So I would say creativity, marketing, storytelling, visuals, language. This is my forte. I wonder how you think about the idea of like your creative vision with the realities of, you know, manufacturing and distribution and logistics and all of those other things. Is it just about being organized for you? Absolutely. I mean, it's the same thing. You know, I give 85% of my weeks to pattern and 85% of my week to the rest of my career. I mean, I have a full-on empire. Like, I have production deals and TV shows and development and a full press world and life and speaking engagements. How much are you working, Tracy? I work 70th of the week. Seven days a week. Absolutely. Saturday, Sunday, you are working. You're doing something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you happy?

working that much. It's what I love. I love that you say that. And I also love that you're honest about working seven days a week. I get a lot of shit for talking about work-life balance and so I'm going to ask you the question

that every journalist asks me all the time. What about work-life balance, Tracy? It's harmony. It's harmony. I mean, sometimes it's full out one thing and sometimes it's full out something else and then you find a balance. The only person that can say no is me.

And so I do that. And I also have a team that protects my time. Yeah. But I thrive. working hard. And I have a great personal life. It's fine. It's all fine. Because it's up to you to say no. It's all up to me. And being organized is the key and disciplined. I am disciplined. I do my work. Like you're not going to send me something for approval that I haven't read and approved. Like it's not going to, oops. You're in it. I'm in it. I'm in it. And I learned that from my mom, by the way.

It's a very important thing that everyone has to learn. Read your contracts. Don't give away power of attorney. Never give away power of attorney. You should say it again. And by the way, a lot of people don't know what that means. No, but why don't you explain it? Don't let somebody else sign your checks. No where your money is going.

And when it's going out, it needs to be of your volition. So even if, and by the way, this is something that I do, you can pay your agents. They pay for you. So if they take a percent, they don't have to take it and then give it to you. No. Give you the check for the money that you made. And then you figure out who you're paying. And then you figure out how much you pay to who it's going to.

Yes. because at the end of the day, you need to be in control of every cost. Like every single thing that you earn is yours and where it goes, you should decide. And I also have to say, I am not a micromanager. I will micromanage if I don't trust what's going on. And then I want to know everything, and I want to figure out why it's not going right. But I'm not a micromanager. That's about hiring teams. You hire and bring wonderful people in that that's their expertise. That's not my job. That's not what I do for, you know, that's not what I do great at or what I have experience in. But if left to my own devices, and I don't think it's happening appropriately, I will start to get in there. I like people to bring

themselves to work. That's the kind of leader I am. I work really hard. And I, and if you want to know the truth, most people that we think on Instagram, oh, they just got it that way. If you've been in the industry for a long period of time, you know. You work hard. You know. Period. You have to. You have to. It's just the way, No one else is going to do it. Yeah. No, and it unravels really quickly. Like, you know those people that are outsourcing, that are not really doing the work, that are not putting the time in because it doesn't last.

No. Like, that's it. When you have a career for all of the time and the level of success you have, it comes from one, well, a couple of things. You have to have the talent, but you have really got to work in. Yeah. Just that. And I also, another philosophy for me is most emergencies involve an ambulance.

Time sensitive. We ain't saving lives over here. No, and time sensitive is different from emergency or urgent. And I like to go slow and steady. I always tell people, if you need an answer right now, it's probably going to be a no. I need to sleep on it. I mean, I have gut responses, but like, slow and steady. Slow and steady.

I would prefer to do less and do it right than do more and do it sloppy. End of. Yeah. That's a great philosophy. Yeah. Again, another thing that shows me how much you know about yourself, clearly. I want to know if you have a point of view, because I think that we've seen quite a lot recently, like a number of brands that have failed and gone down,

especially when they serve a very specific community. And I wanted to see if you have a point of view on why so many brands fail. I think we have to do better as an industry. I think there are systemic roadblocks, and I think it requires a broader approach to support in understanding how you take a unique value proposition and how you scale that.

What that would look like. There's some creativity in making sense of that with a brand. If we're starting with this broad spectrum, right, where is the growth? Is the growth from expanded retail partners? Is the growth from other products? If so, what are the other products that maintain your initial value proposition, right? And I don't know all the machinations of that in the case of this. I think it is very hard to maintain a brand.

Very. This is a very crowded market. beauty, everything's a crowded market now, and everything filters through social media. And people are quick to make decisions about what things mean or don't mean or whatever those are. People, consumers are way, it's not that they're smarter than they used to be. They are, they have access to more information than they used to have. So much choice. So there's so much choice. There's so much you can know about a brand. There's so much. There's apps you can see what product, what, you know, is in the formulas, or blah, blah,

there's all the things, right? So I think the other piece of it, which is something I talk about, not just in the beauty space. but in Hollywood and everywhere, there is a cultural currency that is not accounted for in dollar numbers, that we must, as industry, do a better job of counting. For example, a very exclusive brand that serves a specific customer

might not bring in the same dollar amount, but it is bringing a new customer into your store that is accounting for an overflow, a halo effect in your business, that is either just serving you culturally or serving you financially in a larger way that you're not accounting to that brand. People need to have a better sense of that and really support that in a different way. I think there's nuance to the way that we need everybody to think about. And that isn't, like the full picture isn't always taken into consideration.

Is it something that you talk about a pattern, like how you can future-proof yourself in terms of like stagnating growth or thinking about some of these brands that don't, get to where they need to be. Yes, we talk about it, but not from that perspective. I think for me, the key is how do we want to grow and being clear about that, because there's many ways to scale a business, right? And it's sort of the question of what do you want from it at the end. So are you scaling it just to sell it? Are you scaling it? What is the reasoning, right? So for me, I always go back to the eye on the prize. Like, what is the initial value proposition and the mission and the vision of the brand. So if ours is to exceed the needs of this community, right, how do you continue circling back to that? This, you know, hair care, body care, this is not lip gloss. People don't,

you don't, you don't, like, I don't want to buy a different flavor. I don't want, you know what I mean? Like, I want peptides. Now I want, now I want melon. You know what I mean? Like, that's not, that's not what the business is. This is something that becomes timeless and a part of your regular routine. Wash day is, for some people once a month, as opposed to every day. So how do you account for that in terms of the pace of the scaling? And do you want to scale because you're expanding retail partners? Do you want to scale because of product? Do you want to scale because of new product? So these are questions that you have to ask as you grow a brand and then create a strategy that backs you into that and builds you towards that and also have enough space to be nimble and go, well, that didn't work.

So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a free stay anywhere? Anywhere? What about fancy places like the canopy in Paris? Yeah, Hilton honors baby. Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad in Tulum? Hilton honors baby. What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria

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unique small businesses. When it comes to your small business insurance, thank you. One size, absolutely does not fit all. Get a quote or find an agent today at thehartford.com slash small business. Has your idea of what success looks like or what you'd eventually like to happen with pattern changed from when you launched to now? Yeah, because originally the dream was to launch. Let's get this 10-year dream out of it. You know what I mean? So part of what's happened recently is I'm like, okay, so now what are the options? And that's part of what I'm in the growth process of. What are the choices and how do you keep those choices open?

What does that look like? One of the things we did and have done recently that was really important to me is the core of the brand. If you just keep launching new, how do you keep the core of the brand? So going back and relaunching products that are the hero. Yeah. Ask why I work seven days a week, because these are the things I lay around dreaming about thinking of, talking through, talking through with this person, talking through with somebody that's not on the team, but whatever that may be is incredibly important and a part of

the journey. Are you a risk taker? Risk? Yeah. I'm kind of risk averse. You are? Yeah. You didn't see this as taking a risk when you started it?

I didn't. No. It feels more risky now because there's more to lose. Yeah. Right? There was nothing to lose then. But no, I'm not a gambler. I'd prefer to shop than gamble. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't want the risk of I might lose money. I would prefer to just spend the money on something I know I want. Right? I love that you say. That's my... I mean, listen, I'm a risky biscuit over here. I'm a gambler. I'm just a gambler in my heart. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm a gambler. I'm a gambler. I'll put it all on red. You know, that's me. I'm slow and steady.

No, I'm slow and steady. I am like, you know, fast and an ass. But again, that goes back. to knowing yourself, right? You have to know yourself. So I feel like you and I both have built great successful lives that match who we are. Yes. And so it's a matter of listening, like if I tried your model, it wouldn't work for me. Exactly. And that's why I say like, even on the travel show, I'm like, this is not prescriptive. This is my version. What's your version? Yes, this is you. That means, I mean, it says to me that you probably have had to get very comfortable with the idea of saying no. Oh, God, yeah. And you find your, I can

I know. Oh, yeah. I feel that number one, no is a complete sentence, and number two, a small no is a big yes. And for me, if you look at a wine bottle and you don't know better, you would think why didn't they fill this up? Because that air is what makes space for the wine to be the wine, right? That air is something that I need in order to get the best of me to have space and room to be creative, to vision, to think, to have downtime, to process, to integrate. That's how the best of me comes forward. And when I don't protect that air, I'm not in my best. Forget about it.

What's the boldest no that you've ever said? I would say a big bold no is when I was building pattern and people were pushing for me to make it for everybody for all hair types. And I said, no. Do you know that something like 75% of the global population has textured hair? What? 75% of the global population. No, nobody knows that.

This is a statistic that recently was given to me. I'm feeling better or better about Patton by the minute. When we go in public? By those shit. Watch, I'm totally wrong. I'm like, oh my goodness. Even if I'm wrong, it works for me. and it's going to build me in the right direction.

We're going to be purposeful with our words. We're going to speak it into existence. My head's getting gullier by the second. With the very thought of 75%. It's very possible. Wow, that is a total addressable market we can deal with, Tracy Elliswell. I really want to talk to you about your show. Do it.

It's so good. Thank you. You're season two of this show. We have just been picked up for season two. How nice is that? It's really lovely. This is just like you. Yeah, it's so me.

And also just what a delight to see how people received it. I was, I don't know what I thought people would get. I know what I wanted it to be, but I was very moved. I've been very moved by how moved people are. Tell me how people, because I know what I've seen from the outside, but I'd love to know what people bring to you about it. So it seemed like, I was like, this will be a cute show and I'm kind of watching it to see what you're wearing. And then I was like, oh, this is about so much more than that. Yeah. It really, really, it is less of a travel show. The travel is the vehicle for which I'm sharing, can you be yourself, buy yourself out in the world, and can you be responsible for your own

happiness and give yourself the space to be in whatever that looks like for you? And solo travel looks different for, there's all different kinds of solo travel. For me, it's about integrating and being with myself and spending time quietly letting my heart do what it wants to do. What resonated, what I saw resonating with people was this sense of permission to be okay being where you are. And that you don't have to wait to go find joy and do the things that you love and experience things. And that doesn't even have to be with travel, that it's just you can go and do those things. I think that that's what came through. But you were giving people license, permission in a very different way than how we've been or how we're thinking.

at the moment. Like it was, there was this lovely comment that you said you described the show is giving yourself permission to be with yourself in the most delicious way. And I was like, oh, that's like, that's so nice because so many people would fear going on a vacation alone and having to spend time with their thoughts and be with themselves. And when you're traveling, you know, things are heightened. So the good stuff and the bad stuff. But also, if you're not traveling, I think the show also gave the sense of it is okay to change your mind. It's okay. to say no to something. It's okay to do what you want to do, even if that's not what other people want to do. It's okay to put on your pretty clothes for you. It's okay if you're feeling lonely.

It's okay if your life doesn't look the way you thought it was supposed to or other people tell you it's supposed to. You can still find joy and a sort of transcendent sense of deliciousness for yourself. And I think that's what I know is my experience, but I was so deeply moved by how that resonated with people and that my transparency around that came across in the way I intended. No, and I feel it felt very intentional. I was speaking to a friend about it last night and she was like, I would never do that though. And I was like, you wouldn't? Like, that is like so easy for me. In fact, I love to be alone with like, you know, when you have four kids and a husband, I'm like, sign me up. That's what a lot of people, that's exactly right. So a lot of people, I think from their

lives, it's so much happening all the time. They go away to get their space. Some people go to meet people. Some people go for a sense of adventure. But what do you say to people that are just afraid to even do that for themselves? Oh, I have many things to say. First of all, if it's something you want to do, but you're afraid to do it. That's it. I would say start with going to dinner by yourself. Start on a Wednesday night at 6 o'clock when the restaurant opens. If you can do that. Just like easing them in. Correct. Because I know you're a Friday at A in the best restaurant I literally have seen you and I'm like, she's eating alone, so I'm just going to let her do that. Yeah, yeah. She doesn't want anyone to just come and bother her.

Then you go for a Friday night at 8 o'clock when everybody is there and the restaurant is bumping our way in here. And if you can do that, then the other thing I tell people is you can try going on a vacation that you already have planned and then tack on some days by yourself. That's how I've done it. Mm-hmm, which is great. Or go somewhere you've been with other people and try going by yourself. Oh, you have really nailed this down. Yeah. The way that I do it is to get somewhere early before the rest of my family join.

Yeah. Or I stay for a few days after. Like that for me just feels totally fine. It's perfect. It's perfect. It's just trying it out here. So I make sure I know what's the best. Exactly.

Yeah. I can sure you like be comfortable. I'm doing service, you guys. For the family. Exactly. For sake, why don't they understand why I don't want to be with them? That's amazing. But I'm very happy that this show has got a second season

because it feels like it really... Where will I go? Yeah, where will you go? I don't know. I have ideas. The world is your oyster. It is my oyster. Do you get to choose?

Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. Wow. I'm so excited. And you're packing all those thousands of bags. Oh my God. I feel like one episode, maybe we should try, like,

what happens if I just do a carry-on? I think I would literally... Disaster. You'd be lending things for people. Nothing on the door. Excuse me. Excuse me. I saw you wearing something yesterday.

It would be an entire episode about shopping. But in all honesty, I say this. What happens when you lose your bags? Has that happened to you? Oh, yeah. I can have every, the carry-on. I could live out of that carry-on if I had to. My husband does that.

I have nothing of using the carry-on. Really? Now, think, like 27 lip-bams, not even a pair of knickers. Like, nothing to take me through to the next. That is so funny. My carry-on is so heavy. I cannot get it up. I don't have a bag.

That Ramoa bag, it's like, it's like a rock. It's like just a rock. It's so stuffed. I can barely close it. I have, like, mountains of books, mountains of beauty products and nothing else. No, I literally, it's like I could really, if I had to, I'd look cute for a week. That, for a week? No. I swear to God. From a carry-on. I swear. You need to do a lesson. You need to put that on the social. I will. And by the way, so what I do is I lay everything out for packing, right? And then I sit there and I go, what would be the one pair of shoes, the bathing suit, and one look, two look, three look that can roll up teeny and be great.

And I could wear them in a whole bunch of different ways. And one bathing suit and then the cosmetics that, I mean, I literally could probably do it. I'm telling you, and by the way, do you know how small this goes? Goes with everything. Yeah. No, no, I see it. I literally am looking at it right now. That shoe goes with everything.

Leopard is a neutral. I mean, it's not a joke. I pack for beauty and disaster. Both. All the things. Yes, all the things. I'm prepared. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about your legacy

because I know that you had this epic 50th birthday party where you were in full celebration of your life. I was going to ask you how many outfits. I knew that there were multiple changes. She was like, I'm putting on. It was amazing. All the thing. God, it was amazing.

I have absolutely no doubt. I want to know if your life was a movie, what message would you want it to send out there? May you be comfortable in your skin, find what makes your heart sing, discover your purpose, and be of service. That would be the message I want. I think that you're giving that. Yeah? All right.

Do we don't need a movie? I don't think we should do it. I'm not green light in now. Anyway. Next. Next. I think it's so amazing. though, that you have, like, that you can come out with that and that's, that's who you are.

I love that. Like you've been doing a really good job living up to your own. That's what happens when you don't have kids. You can actually like live it out. You know what I mean? I'm not doing this. I'm doing this. Meanwhile, I'm like, I'm really good job. Is it working? Is it working? Literally. Literally. What advice would you give you a younger self? Oh, hang in there, honey. Oh. Hang in there, honey. Yeah.

Yeah. It's going to be okay. Would you go back? Would you go back to 27? Fuck, no. Everyone says that. We need to do a compilation of me asking everyone. They go, fuck, like him, fuck. Just no. Never.

No, I would not. Not for all the skin and the energy. But what's crazy is I didn't even appreciate it. I know. My skin was just tight like drum all over my body. You didn't know. And I didn't even know. And I was busy complaining, oh, I can't wait a.

Shush. You didn't know. sweet little girl. Listen, no, I would not go back. I can tell you that it only gets better. It only gets better. The physicality is fascinating. I wouldn't even say it's hard. It's just fascinating, sometimes humorous, sometimes alarming. But absolutely fine. It's just different. But emotionally and spiritually, I mean, it is just delicious up here. That's delicious. And apparently, according to those in their 60s, 70s, it only gets better.

Is that what your mother says? My mom says, I have friends in their 60s, I have friends in their 70s, and they would not turn back the time. No. No. I don't think anyone wants to turn back the time. It's just like, it's not a good youth. But yet we have a culture that's obsessed with youth.

I know. I just think, I mean, our culture is obsessed with a lot of things that just aren't that good. I totally agree. It's stupid. I just like, you guys, come on. I'm like, what? Like, no. No. That is very funny. Don't you think it's totally true? It's stupid. Like I don't even know what to say to them anymore.

I ignore that. And you think about women and where we are right now, where we are in the kind of business landscape and leadership, where we are as, you know, just people evolving. I want to understand, like, what gives you hope? Like, how are you thinking about women now? I just look around and I, every, all women just give me hope. hope. There's so many different versions of it. I see so many different kinds of women, so many different ways that women are defying what systemically is prescribed, you know, defying cultural norms in a way that is the norm, but somehow we still keep thinking the other thing is the norm, expanding real estate in the ways, and I don't mean physical metaphoric real estate around what we can be and have and how we can be and have, you know. And to me, the how is what's kind of magical. I just see women constantly redefining how you do stuff, how to be a leader. You know, I look at it all the time and I'm

just like, you guys still call that leadership? Like, what is that? That's not leadership. That's embarrassing. That's embarrassing. That should not be called leadership because I see this sense of shared leadership that benefits the collective. Not just you. It's not just a power grab, but instead is like a culture expansion, you know? And so that to me, I wouldn't even know how to name it other than when you see it, call it out and thank those people. Oh yeah. You know? We have to thank those people. You're one of those people. Well, so are you. Well, thank you. I'll take it. But you really are. All right, this is the rapid fire. We're going to be quick. Do it. The first thing you do when you wake up. Scrape my tongue. You're a tongue scraper?

Absolutely. Is that the one thing I mean, I'm not an animal? Are you an animal? I'm an animal. I only started flossing like two minutes ago. I'm English animal. Mouth hygiene is not our thing. Okay? Just going to say. I scrape my tongue. Massively generalizing for all English people. It's either scrape my tongue or I roll up. It's just so gross. That's why you want to take it off your tongue. But the other thing I will say is something. Sometimes I also, it depends on which comes first, slide down the side of my bed and say my prayers. Oh, okay. Mm-hmm.

Hi God, it's me. Exactly. Last thing you do before you go to bed. Oh, I check my phone. Oh, Tracy. I know, very bad. Very bad. Terrible.

It's terrible. It's supposed to be asked. I know. I know. It's at least it gets turned properly off before bed. That's a big thing. There's no on. It's totally off.

All right. Off, but there. Yeah. And I never, if I get up to use the ladies' room, I do not pick it up and turn it on. Yes. But people do that. Yes, I do not do that. For sure.

One solo trip that everyone should take at least once. Oh. To whatever your dream spot is. You got to do it. Yeah, you got to do it. You got to do it. A book or a film that changed your perspective on life. When things fall apart, payment children.

Yeah. Has to be the one. Yeah. Something that you valued 10 years ago. that you don't value now? A flat tummy. That's a great answer. All right, then I'm going to ask you at Vi-Va-Virsa.

What is something that you value now that you didn't value 10 years ago? Sleep. Sleep. Ain't that the truth? If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review

and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'll be so grateful. A spy with Em Agreed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliard Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer.

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