Aspire with Emma Grede - Diane von Furstenberg: How to Become the Woman You Want to Be

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

Diane von Furstenberg created the iconic wrap dress in her twenties and built her namesake company DVF into one of the most recognizable fashion brands in the world. More than fifty years later, as she approaches 80, she's entering a new chapter — with a lifetime of lessons to share.In this episode of Aspire, Emma sits down with her longtime friend and idol for a deeply personal conversation about self-belief, independence, motherhood, aging and becoming the woman you want to be. Diane opens up about the choices she made as a working mother, why guilt and fear are not options, the mistakes she's made along the way, and what it takes to like the person you've become.Diane shares:How to build the kind of self-belief that carries you through every stage of lifeWhy the most important relationship you'll ever have is the one you have with yourselfHow to stop comparing yourself to other people and own who you areWhy guilt and fear should never drive your decisionsWhat motherhood taught her about raising independent children without losing yourselfWhy independence has always mattered more to her than moneyHow to learn from mistakes without letting them define youWhy kindness is a currency — and how it compounds over timeWhat getting older has taught her about confidence, clarity and becoming more yourself

Diane von Fistenberg is a fashion icon known for building one of the most legendary fashion brands in the world. No one has more self-belief than Diane. And today, she shares how to keep choosing the woman you want to be through every season of your life. Dan von Fistenberg, welcome to aspire. I am so happy to have you here today, Diane, because from the beginning, and in fact, I'm going to tell the story. Because from the inception of me thinking about having a podcast, you were there. And when I think about you, I think that you are one of the most iconic women in the world. It's true.

I know you're going to be very, you're going to correct so many things that I say. But to me, you're one of the most iconic. I have to show some humility. You can start there. To me, you're one of the most iconic women in the world. And for so many women, you're there. You feel a brand that has defined multiple decades. And at 79 years of age, you are still building.

But what I actually want to talk to you about today is how you've lived. The lessons in love and in money and in building a business, the experiences that have made you who you are and the mistakes that you never shy away from talking about. I just don't think anyone has quite lived a life like yours. And my audience is full of ambitious people who can learn so much from you. Okay, big advice, real advice. In three months, I'm going to be 80 years old. 8.0.

8-0. So I am definitely in the winter of my life. I hope I'm going to have a long winter, but it is winter for sure. First of all, I want to tell everyone, age, I mean, I don't know what is this thing that people are afraid of age. Age means you have lived, lived. So nobody can take away what you have lived, right? So, advice number one for life, don't lie. The one thing I'm so, so, so happy is that I have never lied. Therefore, no one can blackmail me. Not lying means owning it, you know, and that means being in charge, which is what I

wanted to be. Now, age is every year is knowledge. experience and wisdom. Lairs and layers of experiences, layers of knowledge, nears of wisdom. And so the more layers, the more comfortable the bad is. It's true. One of the things that I find remarkable is that through everything that you have lived through, you still seem so genuinely excited about life. And I wonder what actually keeps you motivated. Listen, my mother was a prison of war.

She was actually in the death camp, but because she did forced labor, she didn't die. She was 22 years old. And when she came back, she weighed 49 pounds. So she wasn't supposed to have survived, but she did.

And her parents couldn't believe she came back. So my mother fed her like a little bird, you know, within six, month she was normal. Her fiancé came back from Switzerland. They met, they get married, and the doctors say, no matter what, you have to wait three years of a child because you will die and your child will not be normal. 13 months later, I was born. And in a sense,

I was not normal. So my mother used to say, and I have a little thing that she wrote to me, She said, God saved me so that I can give you life. By giving you life, you gave me mine back. You are my torch of freedom. So I was born with a torch of freedom in my hand, which sometimes could be a little heavy for a little girl, but I'm happy I did that. So my biggest achievement,

the most audacious thing I ever did was being born. So to honor life, that is the most important thing. That is what I have taught my children, my grandchildren, above everything, you honor life. I don't think I've ever met anyone with more self-belief than you have. Self-belief. Maybe me. Maybe me. Somebody that has...

Maybe me. Well, when I think about self-belief, somebody that really knows who they are and really lives in it. And I just wonder where that comes from. Okay. When I was a little girl, my mother had a big mirror in her bedroom, a big vanity. And I used to stare at it. Not that I liked what I look like, because I look very different than any other little girl in Belgium. They all had, you know, blonde hair, straight hair. And I had little curly hair. People thought I was a little boy. But if I moved, the mirror moved. If I did this, she did the same thing.

And I realized, oh, I have control of me. Oh, that's a big realization. How old were you then? I don't know, maybe five. And still to this day, when I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night and I pass by the mirror, I either, you know, say hello, I wink at myself. I mean, I have a complicity with myself. And I count on myself. It's really counting on myself. It's not that I'm always secure many, many, many days I wake up and feel like a total loser. You know, you always do that. But then I get up and I go on. But my relationship with myself, you know, your relationship, the most important relationship in life is the one you have with yourself. Once you have that,

every other relationship is a plus, a luxury, but not a must. It's maybe one of the best things that you ever said. I quote you all the time on that. I'm like, my friend Diane says, but I do want to just stop for a minute there because it's such an important thing to have a relationship with yourself. But so many people find that so difficult, and especially now in the culture that we live in,

there's so much distractions. We're all looking at everyone else. Don't compare yourself. with anyone. I never. I remember years ago I saw a movie with Marisa, my friend, and it was somebody that made wishes. And all the wishes happened, but they hadn't thought about something. So don't ever envy anyone. Don't ever. And also, remember, you know, you go in a room and you look at the woman across the room, and she's so cool and she's so put together. But for her, you are the woman across the room. It's absolutely true. I know, and I read somewhere that you said,

your mother raised you to believe that fear was not an option. But what did that actually look like for you growing up? It's very simple. If I would tell my mother I was afraid of the dark, she would take me, put me in a closet. Today she could go to jail for them. But as a result, I'm not allowed to have fear. And I don't. I mean, not fear. I mean, I don't want to want things. happen, I'm cautious. But even to my children, I don't say, be careful. I used to say, if you do that, what happens? You know, the consequence. The most important things you can give your children is independence. Love and independence. I really agree with you on that. But what do you say to women? She has the best children. They're great and they love you. My daughter still walks around with those

sunglasses you gave her and the in-charge necklace. You have cute, very cute, very cute. But you have a way with people in general, but kids tend to really gravitate to you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they all sit around. You know why? Because I treat them as grown up. There's that. That's the truth. You have none of that baby talk. Yeah, no. You're like, what are you want? The people who patronized me, I hated them. It's very attractive to a kid to be spoke to like an adult. Yeah, but that's why you have to make them independent. No, you're right about that. But I'm interested to know what you're. I'm interested to know what you. you say to women? Because again, you've done so many things that you have, that should have brought fear, right? Starting your own business and coming back from, you know, bankruptcy and starting over again. What do you say to women that are full of fear? Because it's so crippling for so many.

Listen, you live your life day after day, minute after minute, right? I did not know. what I wanted to do, but I knew the kind of woman I wanted to be. When you start live, there are all these doors in front of you. My door, the door ended up being my door was the least glamorous of all. I mean, professionally, because personally, I did marry a prince. So it's hard to be more glamorous than that. But you open, you have to be curious, you have to look, you have to invent. First of all, all we are is energy. That's it. All we are is energy. Oh, I'm going to say something.

This, I write my diary, and I know you do too. I write my diary. I've written my diary all my life. Because I'm born on a museum, I have a new book on January 1st. And I picked three words for the year. This year I picked up. It was really very helpful. Wisdom, because now I have wisdom.

Imagination, because you have to imagine. You know, you have to take the color pencil. You have to be creative. You know, imagine. But the most important thing is magic. Magic. But in order to see magic or capture magic, you have to make space,

meaning you have to be on your own. You have to make space. But also, you have to talk to someone. I walked in here. I talked to somebody and be intimate very early on. because you may give something to that person, but they may give something to you. So you have to be very open.

But of course, the thing that, you know, my big thing was being in charge, being a woman in charge, being the woman you want to be. I promoted that all my life, but now it's kindness. Now my thing is kindness is a currency. And like money, it compounds to be,

kind, is not being stupid, it's not being weak. It's a tool. It's a muscle. It's almost a trick. I love that you say that like that, Diane, because it's one of the truest things that was ever said that kindness compounds. If you're someone that believes in karma, if you're just somebody that has lived for any amount of time, you know all the good things that you do come back around to you. I know. I never, I mean, if you told me that when I was 20, that I would end up promoting, in kindness and talking. And right now I'm writing a book on kindness. I would say, what?

You know, but it's incredible. And, you know, if you have a relationship with yourself and you do, for example, every morning, I mean, this is my advice to you, to anyone. Every morning, try to make a miracle by introducing one person to a person who can change their life or be instrumental in their life that they wouldn't have known without you. You don't need to speak. You don't need to disturb anyone.

It just has to be thoughtful and write a good email or good text. And you make miracles. Why, after all of these years, has kindness been the thing that you've landed on? I don't know. I don't know. But it's wonderful. And so, you know, I make it provocative because I make everything provocative. Because that's how you get people attention.

Absolutely. Is kindness an easy thing to promote in the current culture? I don't know. I just go on. I mean, I got a prior, they gave me an award in Davos, right? Davos is absolutely not my crowd. They're all men and they're all finance. You know, they're all interested in money.

And I go and I thank them for my award. And I said that, by the way, since you're so powerful, because you should always flatter people if you want to get their attention, since you are all so powerful, I want to share something with you that I do every day. And da, da, da, da. And, you know, I stayed five days. A dozen men must have come to me as I did it today. That's incredible.

Before we go on, I think it's important that you tell your origin story of the business and the brand. So much of what has happened to you and the lessons that you've had kind of come from this unbelievable life that you've made for yourself. So will you talk just a little bit because the rap dress was so unbelievably successful that in a way, it almost nearly sort of destroyed the business. And I want you to give some thoughts around what other founders can learn from your journey. Okay, I was doing an internship, I mean, barely an internship,

in a printing plan in Como, Como Italy, the Silk Road, that's where they weave. Okay. And this man was doing scarves. He was printing scarves for Valentino, for Hagam or all these big brands. I walked in there, And I learned everything about how you print. Artists and illustrator would come and sell their drawing to make scarves.

And timing has a lot to do with it. At the time, he was very successful, so he needed more room. What year was this, roughly? Oh, 69. Okay. So there was a factory next door where they made stockings. So none of you know that before we had panty-holes, women wore stockings. And so the Pentehouse was born. It was a revolution. So nobody made stocking. So that factory went bankrupt. So he bought the factory in this man I was working with. He bought it for the walls. Right. So when we get there, there are all these machines. He said, I hate to throw this machine. What could we do with this machine? They were knitting machines, right? They were knitting machines, right? They were knitting silk to make a stocking.

We compete the legs here. Have you ever seen two better pair of legs? I think you're winning. I actually really think you're winning, which is embarrassing for me. I'm not winning. Anyway, he said we should try with thicker yarn. Anyway, I'm going to make it short. Basically, he invented Jersey.

Oh, this fabric is nice. What could we do with this? We could have little polo shirt. We could print on it and make little polo shirt. So that's how it began to sew this fabric. You need very thin needles. And anyway, one thing next to the neck, I happen to be there. So from a little top, I thought, oh, wait, let's make a little polo dress, make a little shirt dress.

And the fabric is very tight. It's jersey. So it molds your body. Oh, you know what I really like is what the ballerinas were over their tutu when they're a little wrap. So let's do a little wrap top. So it was a wrap top. with a matching skirt, with my cheek pants, and then became a rapture. In the meantime, I get engaged, pregnant, and married in that order.

To the prince. To the prince. And this is one of the things I find most fascinating about you, because you didn't need to do anything at this point. You'd married the prince. Most people would go off to the castle and live happy ever after. Oh, no, no, no. But because I was pregnant when I got married,

it was really important that, even more important, that I showed independence. Oh my God, people are going to think that I did it on purpose, so I had to be independent, right? You needed yours. I needed my own. And Agon was very, he really wanted me to be independent. And so I went to this man I was working with and I said, listen, I am pregnant. I am getting married and I'm moving to America.

But I want to be independent. Can I make samples? I had already begun that I can sell in America. And that's how it started. And I had one child. And then 13 months later, another child, I was always pregnant, going back and forth to the factory, working out of my dining room. You know, I got married, 16. I started, I moved to New York, 1970.

I started 72, my first dresses and so on. By 73, 74, I was making 25,000 dresses a week. Absolutely insane. And the same one. Oh. The same. dress. Blue and white, red and white, green and white. This print, that print. And what's crazy is like some of those prints are still in circulation. Because when I was going through,

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or payment needed. Just head to PipeDrive.com slash aspire to get started. That's pipedrive.com slash aspire, and you can be up and running in minutes. It's interesting because you also became so famous. It was a phenomenon. First of all, Egon already, when he was in New York as a young bachelor, handsome and prince, you know. It's a hot story. All the girls wanted him.

And so he was, and then, of course, we got married, oh, da-da-da. We were young. We were 22. But then when it started to kick, I said, oh my God, this looks good. So I wanted to be the division of a bigger company, right? Because I was working in a one-man show. So I went to see three, Seventh Avenue company and hoping that they would take me as one of their divisions. Because it's become too much for you to manage?

Well, because it was, it was, no, that's before we got to 25,000 a week, right? when I was in my hotel room twice a year showing, I didn't have a showroom. I was very shy. I was afraid of 7th Avenue. I was afraid of all of that. So I was doing everything out of my dining room. Twice a year, I would take a room in a hotel where there were other people were showing. And then the merchandise, what was blue, came red, the sizes were wrong.

But no matter what, everything sold. So I knew I had a product. So I wanted to meet. Like a business partner? A business partner. Yeah. So I saw three companies. The first two, they say, no, no, this can be volume.

The third one was a little nice. It was a little young. He said, you don't need anyone. All you need is a showroom and a salesman. Sales and distribution. Yeah. But I was so worried. I said, I don't know any salesman.

He said, come back next week. So I came back. back next week and introduced me to this man who was 39 years old. And at this point, how old are you? 24 or 5. You're still so young at this point. 39 seemed very old to me. And so I explained to him, and I said, but I don't know if I can afford you. What do you need? And he said, if you give me $300 a week. And 25% of the company, I come. So I said, well, $300 a week I can do.

And 25% of nothing is nothing I could do that too. So he came in. He was a really good salesman. We took a showroom on 7th Avenue. He knew everybody. And people came and they bought. And he would ship me everywhere to do personal appearances. So I would take very early plane in the morning, so I could be with my children the night

before, and I would go to Pittsburgh, Santa Fe, Oklahoma, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, you know, San Francisco, I mean, you know, Buffalo. And I mean, that's how I learned geography of this country. That's a similarity in us. And I would arrive in the morning. And the, and the, and I would arrive in the morning and at the time retail was very different. There must have been 2,000 great department, or even more, department stores, everywhere and really good department stores. And they were all owned by the owner, by the founders' family. And they were very much part of the community. They would call their clients patrons. Right. And they would do event and this and that. So the Mr. So-and-So would come and pick me up at the airport,

bring me first to do the good morning, Oklahoma, or good morning, whatever. I would do the television show. And I would do the television show and then talk about, you know, and then I would go to the store and they had all their salespeople from the entire store come upstairs and I would show the clothes and da-da. And then I would do the same thing for the customer between 12 and 3 p.m. And I learned everything there. Of course you did.

In the fitting rooms, wrapping things, da, da, that's how I learned everything. And women would just, you know, I don't know. And of course, I was cute and I was young and I was a princess and I had curly hair and, you know, and fishnet stocking, which by the way I'm wearing today. You still got all those things, Diane. And it was a time women's liberation and women fell, you know. I mean, it's interesting when you say that because it was so long ago. And even as I think about my own journey, I came to America and I would have to go and do the morning shows.

34. I've been here for nearly 10 years. It was 34 when I came here and I would have to do the same thing. And I literally, I knew New York and L.A. I would look on my children's like placements that they eat on in the morning. And what were you saying? Okay, I'm going good American jeans. and I would go to Austin and I'd do Good Morning Austin or whatever, some tiny TV station the same size as this.

That's right. And then I'd go to Nordstrom and I'd speak to every sales assistant. I'd show on my wares. I'd have a suitcase. One person with me. So not that much has changed. In hindsight, as you look back, I'm interested in that first deal. I don't know what first year was.

Well, not first year. The first deal. So when you actually meet this 7th Avenue guy, the guy that's doing sales and distribution, he asked you for 300 a week and he asked you for 25%. of your company. Looking back, was that the right decision? Was that a good decision? Oh, totally.

Totally. I mean, but then we got so successful that he became one day, I mean, he thought he would own the world. Was it a good partnership? It was a great partnership, but then he started to believe in our own bullshit. And one day he came and he said, I think I want to become president of United States. Okay. And I said, all right, sure.

But then I call my lawyer. I said, you know, I think that. But I bought him out and I stayed in very good term. One of my specialties, I stay in good term with everybody. It's a really good lesson. And it's, yes. The world is small. The fashion industry is small.

Whether it's men or business or people you have to separate with, you know, be honest and stay in good term. You know, I love a wrap. I wear them all the time. I have like a vintage collection of them. Olivia from my office is wearing her mom, Karen's wrap dress. Why do you think it continues to resonate with every generation? The other day, I was in Venice who were having the DVF awards. And all the five awardees, remarkable women, age different, race different and everything.

And actually, by accident, they were all wearing wraps. And that's when I understood for the first time that it's about it. Okay? It's about being in Jersey at the top and it. The snatch. It's about the attitude. It's so interesting to me that something can last for this long, this season of your life, you've decided that you want to re-energize the company.

Is that about the fact that it carries your name or is there something in you that I want to put, right now it's inventory time, right? Everything is inventory. The brand, my voice, over the years, I spoke a lot. I have done what we're doing now since I am 22. If you go on YouTube, you can watch me saying the same thing over and over at 20. 35, 35, 45, 55, 75, 75. And, you know, it's a little.

So actually, I think that for whatever reason, what I said, has inspired a lot of women. So it would be nice to be able to encapsulate that in a way so it doesn't go to ways. You know, what is legacy? I mean, it's a huge, big, pretentious word. but it is the people you touch, the children you have, and your body of work. I want to talk to you about something that I talk about a lot on this show, and it's money.

And I wonder if your relationship with money has changed over the years and how you ever thought about your brand, your independence, and actually money. I don't really think very much about money at all. I wanted to be independence, which means being able to pay my business. by a house, you know, security like that, but money per se. And then I hate to look at numbers. I don't look at numbers. I'm a bad, as far as that, I'm not a good executive.

Why? Why are you saying? I'm holding on to my seat because all I want everyone to do is look at the numbers. Oh my God. But it's good to know you're not good at it. I'm sorry. I don't belong in this show then. Well, as long as you know somebody else has.

to look after them, then you're still in. But maybe that may be my fault is that I don't look at numbers. Do you consider it a weakness or is it just something that you don't, like, is there a fear associated with looking at the numbers or is it like I'm not good at this? No, no, fear is not. I just, I mean, I like to be able to afford what I would like to afford. I am absolutely not interested in piling money. I'm a very bad person to talk about money.

I mean, I'm not completely idiotic. Well, clearly not. And also, you know, with respect, you have a lot of money. So maybe you've not had to think about it in that way. No, no, no. I mean, you know, yeah, I don't want, I don't want not to be respectful. But as long as I can make it happen. Yeah.

Well, I think that you spoke a lot about independence. And I do think that independence has been, your association with money is linked to your independence. And that's how you've thought about. it through your whole life. I mean, I always find ways to make money. It's a great way to think about things. Because you've been quite vocal about mistakes that you've made over the years, is there any mistake that actually cost you the most? Yes, but you learn from your mistake. You learn more from your mistake than not mistake and you really only regret the things you don't do. Listen, if you don't lie, you did what you did thinking it was right.

I don't really look at the negative things like that. That's a superpower, don't you think? I don't know. I mean, that's just the way I am. Well, it can be crippling. I feel like we talk so much about mindset and you have such an unbelievably strong mindset. Like, you're very clear.

But it takes so long. I mean, now I happen to have a lot of clarity because I swam 75 hours over the summer. And when I swim, I meditate and that. So, you know, you have to spend time with yourself in order to find clarity. I just want to stop you for a second because even when you say that, people will think, oh, my God, you know, she's making an exaggeration. No, you actually swam 75 hours every single summer in the ocean for hours a day in a full wet suit, swimming and swimming and swimming. and this is part of your meditation?

No, I like to swim, first of all, because you're alone. And you're alone in the sea. And I'm lucky because I go on boats, so I swim, you know, when there's no one and I can swim for a long time, I don't swim like an Olympic thing. I swim like an old lady, but I can swim. I swim somewhere between an hour and a half and two hours every day. For how long have you done that?

Oh, I don't know, but years. Do you think that that is like an essential part of your... Well, yeah, but I do the same walking, you know. 31 years ago, I had a cancer and I met Deepak Chopra. He taught me how to meditate and he... And then he gave me words sutras and I use those. And I have my own little way of doing... Because it's very hard to swim for so long unless you have a nightiner.

So I have words and then they take me somewhere for five minutes. So, and then, I don't know, I mean, listen. It's amazing. The most important thing is the relationship with yourself. So I have all kinds of tricks and all kinds of whatever. But I love the tricks. I feel like that's what we want to know. Like I always think like in the morning when I make my, I have like a protein coffee,

but I take it very seriously, like the cup that I use and the temperature of the water and the way. Is there anything that you don't take seriously? I have a serious girl. Exactly. You know, but to me, it's like my moment alone. You know, but you pay attention, the ceremony of life. You pay attention to every single thing you do because you've taken yourself in charge.

And you own it, you know. And you have a sexy hot husband and he's smart and he's good and he's wealthy and you have healthy, wonderful children. And, you know, and you wanted to do what you're doing now. And you're making it happen. Do you remember when we were talking about this, Diane? Yeah. It was, I think you were the first person that I spoke to about it.

And you gave me the necklace when we were in your home. I have the necklace with diamonds. My daughter has one as well. And I thought about that, like, for so real. Tell them what it says. It says in charge. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which is your, you have it on?

Yeah. A, it was such a beautiful thing for you to give me. But we should talk a little bit about what in charge means to you. To be in charge. charge is first and foremost owning who you are, owning your imperfection. If you own them, they become your asset. If you own your vulnerability, it turns it into strength. That's it.

But you have to accept who you are. And then you get to like what you love. And the complicity with yourself, I asked my husband the other day, do you actually speak to yourself with words? and he said, what do you mean? No, when I think, do you speak to yourself? All the time, sometimes out loud. Exactly. Exactly.

But it's funny because I actually remember asking Yens years ago, I said, do you speak to yourself in Swedish or in English? He's like, what are you talking about? That's funny. I speak to myself all the time. But it was quite incredible. That's funny that we both did. Yeah, but that line that you say, the most important relationship you'll ever have is the relationship with you have with yourself. It evolves and it changes. It moves throughout your life. And I'm interested

in understanding a bit about you with your family and your children because obviously you were, you were living this like, I mean, anyone who like Google's photos of you will see, you have really lived, Diane. Like you've had a big, full, juicy, colorful, colorful life. You've been out on about. And then, you know, you've had two children. You had this huge career. I'm going to say icon and I know you're like, but you are an icon to so many. And within all of that, love and motherhood and family life

is obviously a huge part of it. And yet you've still carved out this very important relationship with yourself. So will you just talk about that part of your life a little bit? Because I feel like some... With my children? Yeah, I would love you to talk about your children and your family. Okay, so if you talk to my children, I was never there.

How does it make you feel when you say that? Be ready. Be ready. I'm fucking ready. But if I look at the results, God bless them. They're wonderful. And now they are fully grown up, parents of adults, and we speak every single day. Do you have regrets about that, Diane?

Do you have regrets at the time you're aware? No, the only thing I have regrets is that my daughter had a health condition that I didn't realize. That's my only regret in life. Because you were too busy to realize? No, no. but she was also hiding it. But, I mean, that was, but she's very strong and she manages

and she's a great mother and her daughter is a superstar with superpower. Do you feel like you were a good mother? Actually, I do, I think. No, I am a good mother. I mean, yes. Would you have changed anything? Like when your kids say to you,

you were never there, is that something that you find hard to talk? take or is that just a consequence of a choice that you made? I think I was more there than I think and I would never abandon them like, you know, and myself. No, I'm very proud of who they are. Very. And the parents there are.

So, Diane, tell me what you think about when you see parenting now and women now tear themselves apart or, you know, if you think about, for example, when I wrote my book, I spoke about, you know, I said, I'm a three-hour mom, and the world went fucking mental. I know, I know. So what is your advice where to women tell us? I think the helicopter parents are crazy. And you see the result. You have to make your children independent.

You give them love and you make them values and you make them independent. Nothing is more important than making your children independent. Nothing. And they have responsibility for themselves. Oh, we can. careful. No, if you do that, what's a consequence? You may fall, you may this, you may that. But, I mean, I was lucky also. I have wonderful, wonderful children. I had a mother. Grandmothers are very important. Did you ever have mum guilt? What? Did you ever have

mum guilt? I guilt is not an option. I guilt and tears. Diane's made of something else. You're made of like steal from another time. You never had mum guilt. Guilt is not a, no, not really. I mean, afterwards, yes, for my daughter, for her health. Yes. That I understand. That is for sure. But you never had guilt about going to work and leaving your children.

You never had guilt about traveling. Because again, I do, this show is specifically made for women. I was so young that these things, the children happened. I did the best I could. They came with me. I mean, I went to business trips in Japan. I took them along. You know, while I was doing business, they had a guide.

They would visit the city. I did the best I could. And, but guilt, no. What is your message to women listening that find themselves crippled by guilt? Talk to your children. Explain, you go to school, I go to work. And then you have conversation. What did you do?

Who did you learn? Make them grow. I talk to my children as if they were grown up. from day one. My mother did that to me and my mother was tough. I mean, she locked me in a closet. You know, she did a lot of other things. And I don't know good. Do you understand it? Do you even understand like, again, like where we are in society now and the way, because listen, you have been somebody who's been a fierce feminist your entire life. And in some ways, I think that it's far harder right now in

2006 to speak in the way that you do than it was 50 years ago. So what does that say about progress for women? First of all, I don't judge.

And my advice right now to women, okay, you're going to like this. Women always have solution, right? The most submissive woman anywhere,

there's a fire in the house, she gets it together. She takes the children, the jewelry, Sometimes she takes a jewelry before the children, and up she goes, right? Women have the solution. So I try to promote seduction. And seduction is not about showing your legs,

even though today we are a very bad example of it. It's about getting what you want, making other people believe it's their idea. That's what seduction is. It really is. And that's the power of women. Having said that, I deplore, I mean, I mean, what is happening, I'm in Afghanistan. I, please, no, I am on the board of vital voices.

I really fight for women's rights. I take it extremely seriously, all of that, very much so. And I deplore this wave of machism that is happening and that everything is a bullet. They make weapons and everything is a bullet. Everything is about erection. So that's what we are living now. But us women, we should be smart about it, not confronted. Everything is, un-comfront, you know, even the sport.

Win or lose. Life is not about win and lose. There's very many variety of gray between black and white. You spoke a little bit about like no judgment. And I feel like where we are is that there's so much judgment, specifically between women. Do you think that that's changed a little bit? What, what?

Women judging one another. Oh, really? Well, I don't really think that any men cared about some of my comments earlier this year. But I do think that it was hard for a lot of women to swallow. Don't think about that. You know, if you got a lot of, you know, what did you say? A bit of backlash, a little chit-chat. If we get a lot of backlash, you should think about it.

And you should think about it. And maybe it was the delivery. I wouldn't go angry. Every backlash, every criticism is useful. Yeah, I think so, too. With oil and the spinach. Yeah. It's such a good one.

Let's talk about your relationship. You and Barry were together. You were then apart for decades, and then you found your way back together. So what would you actually tell a young woman about choosing a partner? I mean, you don't choose a partner. It happens. You meet somebody, you know, I've never chosen a partner ever.

I've had many partners and I've had two husbands. And I love them all, you know, because you've had intimacy with them and therefore you've shared something special and unique. Clearly the ones I love most at the end are the ones I married. But Barry, I mean, you know, we fell in love 52 years ago very intensely together. And then I had, I felt like I had to go. That's why I was saying my life has been also about fulfilling my fantasy. I don't know.

I mean, you know, there is no, there is no book to follow. Everyone designed their life according to, I mean, you can't say you design your life. I mean, people can't even survive. I know about survival. I mean, my mother was nothing. She was nothing. She was ashes. There are things that happen, and you deal with them.

And then you go on. I have no advice or anything about choosing a partner, except being honest, being honest and being honest and being kind. Comes back down to your life principles. It's the same sort of, everywhere in your life. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, you didn't choose your partner. I feel like I chose him.

Well, you choose very well. I mean, you chose to go back to Barry. No, I didn't choose it. You know, you chose it? It's so interesting to me because, again, like, again, as an, from the outside, it feels like that. We always knew eventually we would get married. You did? Yes.

And so one day it was his birthday. It was going to be his birthday, Friday, next Friday. and I was giving an Aquarius because he and both my children are Aquarius. And I was giving an Aquarius party. And so I said, you know, Barry, if you want, I marry you for your birthday. And he see, let me see if I can arrange it. And he called City Hall and he arranged them. That's pretty romantic.

Yeah, but everything is romantic. Everything in your life, Diane, might be romantic. No, in anyone. It's just pay attention to the moment and enjoy the moment. and enjoy the moment and enjoy also the difficulty. You know, I want to give an advice when you go to a really, really difficult moment, try to detach yourself a little bit and watch it and do it like it was a documentary because then maybe you get less emotional about certainly.

Yeah. I want to talk to you somewhat just about legacy because one of the most impressive things that you do and you do a lot of impressive things. But the DVF Awards is something that moves me every single time. You have to go, I see it. I know. But it feels to me that that's something that's so, like, intrinsic to who you are and your legacy and what you stand for.

And also my mother, because the DVF award is giving money and visibility to women, exceptional women, who have had the current. to fight, the strength to survive, and the leadership to inspire. And that is really my mother. You know, it's honor my mother, but it was really Alex my son's idea. He said, you know, you do all these things for women that's doing a war and blah, blah, blah. That's how it happened. And it's wonderful because you, I mean, I really, really, really care about paying attention and giving light and visibility to these incredible women who do incredible things.

And right now the world is really difficult and depressing. And so, you know, I can't. You must, each of us must think about being kind, being good, and looking for the light. You look for the light, you bring in the light, you grow the light, you cherish the light, and you share the light. Because no matter what, every morning, the sun pushes the darkness away. And there is a kind of magic to that, to living that way.

Diane, we've mentioned it a couple of times, but you do turn 80 this year. Yes. What's the conversation Diane is having reverse self as she approaches 80? I started in January 1st that I was going to, that's goal, that I was entering the winter of my life. But I'm also very visual, you know. So my new stage is Venice. It's about doing inventory, as I tell you. It's the inventory so that everything you leave behind,

because I don't know how long, but nobody knows how long they live. But obviously when you enter the winter of your life, you have less time. Of course, tomorrow morning I can break my leg and goodbye. But it's very exciting, actually. And I have a lot of my friends. who are also the age, a lot of them have died.

The good thing with age is that you have the past. So I have a past. And it's about putting things in order and it's fun. If I manage to live a few years, you know, if I'm there saying that I managed to live another 10 years, it could be my best decade and I've had some pretty good ones. When you look back, what do you wish you'd worried, about. No. Not really. I mean, first of all, I don't look back, except for the, you know, the good things

and you only regret the things you don't do. Yeah. If you make a mistake, you pay for them, so, you know, you have had the consequence. That's it. You're very pretty. You know, you're very pretty. So are you, Diane? No. Yes. I mean, that's ridiculous thing to say you have cheekbones up to your fucking, it's crazy. It's crazy. Every time I, I sit with you, like, I think that you're kind of like a hypnotic woman. You know, you have a special way of sitting where you intertwine your legs and you're always like this. And I think, God, you've got a really confidence to sit like that. Diane, when you think about your legacy now, what actually matters beyond the dress, beyond the company, beyond everything? The most important things is my

family. My grandchildren, my children, that is by far number one. Number one, for sure. They definitely have priority in my prayers. They have priority in everything. Whether physically, when they were growing up, I was there, I was there, but I was always there. And they turned out good and they have good values. They know about being kind. That is really the most important thing. Second of all, It would be nice to package the things I have learned so that other people can benefit from it. And then there is something that was the brand that is somehow because it's made of fabric, probably the flag of my life, right? A flag of freedom, you know, so the flag of my was a dress.

so, you know, I would like to put it in the best hands I can. And then we'll see. A lot of it may just end up, you know, once it's all nice and clean, a lot of it may end up in the foundation so that it benefits other people. That makes so much sense to me. You're turning 80 this year. So do you know already what your three words are next year? I never know the words for the following year until I opened my diary.

And then it comes. Like you feel like it comes to you. Yeah. Words come to. I love words. Words are magic. Words are important. My mother used to say, pay attention to their words.

And it's so valuable. Now I'm writing a book and again, I'm enhancing words. Words are very important. If you can focus on the words, it's magic. What do you still aspire to be or to become? I have to say that aging, I enjoy more and more being me. I have to say that. And that's why I'm not afraid of death.

So I, yeah, I, yes, and that's why you shouldn't lie. I mean, I discovered this lying thing recently because New York Times had asked me to, if I would write for New Year's, something about superstition. I say, oh, I give it a try. So just three paragraphs. So I wrote, you know, obviously as I'm European, you know, we don't go under a ladder or break a mirror, hot on the bed, stupid things like that.

And then there's the super superstition that I do with myself, like if I push on an elevator, if that elevator will come and be a good day, stupid things like that. But then I said, no, I have to think a little, something a little deeper. And thinking about it, I realized, oh, I didn't realize, but I always thought that lying is bad luck. And I said, have I really never lied? And I really went into it.

And it's not that I didn't lie because I was caught in a bad lie when I was a little girl or because my mother told me not to lie because she would lie about her age. but I always thought that lying is bad luck. And that actually protected me. Oh shit. Yeah, it'll protect you. When I first met you, you told me the most sweet and magical story about how you see yourself

and finding something to see yourself. And it was a story about the plan, and I would just love you to tell that story. If you could find something physically that reflects your soul, Somebody asked me that and I never thought about it. Then I went on a walk in the country and it was a month of March. Everything was dead, you know, and then I saw this green stick, I mean, coming plant and with a little curly head. And it's what they call a twindle.

It's a fern. And I thought, oh, this is me. I came out. I was born out of the ash. bright green stick that appeared out of nowhere with a little curly hand and then the little curl unwinds and it becomes a fern, the biggest fern with endless opportunity. It's pretty amazing. But I'm not describing it well.

You're describing it beautifully well. I remember when you told me the story and I was like, oh, I was very much into it. We all need that. It was a good one. though because it just struck me that we should all like have something for ourselves. Yeah, yeah, put it in the book. So much to put in the book. Okay, now we only have rapid fire.

So it's like, what's the first thing you do in the morning? Take my probiotic. We're all about to run out and buy probiotics immediately. What's the best advice you've ever been given? Here's not an option by my mother. What's something that you'll never apologize for? I don't know. I don't know what I could apologize for. What do you mean?

I don't think you're like an apologetic woman. No, I mean, if I do something wrong, I will say I'm sorry. I will apologize. Anything in your own behavior that you're just like, I won't apologize for being like that. For being me? Why wouldn't I apologize for being me? You absolutely shouldn't. What's the one thing that every woman should spend her own money on? A woman should try to have her own money that she could buy everything she wants. wants to buy.

Last question. Is there a book that changed your life? My favorite book is, I don't know, it's called The Little Prince, the Petit Prince. It's a child's book, but it has everything. Diane, thank you so much. You're the best. You're so good. I'm so happy you're here.

If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who would be so grateful. A Spy with Emmer Greed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer.

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