Aspire with Emma Grede - “Don’t Let Anyone Control You With Money” with Reese Witherspoon

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Reese Witherspoon may be known as America’s sweetheart — but behind the scenes, she’s built a billion-dollar empire that changed Hollywood for women everywhere. In this episode of Aspire, Emma Grede sits down with Reese to talk about the moment she stopped waiting for permission, the lessons she learned about money and ownership, and what it really takes to pivot in your career when everything looks successful from the outside — but you know you’re meant for more. From her first acting gig at 14 to founding Hello Sunshine and selling it for nearly a billion dollars, Reese opens up about: -How to recognize when it’s time to make a change -Why independence — not wealth — is real power -The biggest money mistakes women make (and how to avoid them) -What it means to truly bet on yourself If you’ve ever felt stuck, under-valued, or ready for your next chapter, this conversation will remind you: you are your own best investment. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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share it with you. Start with yourself. My debut book is available now. Visit emigre.com to purchase the book, also available on Amazon, your favourite audio platforms and all good bookshops. You know that feeling when everything looks so successful from the outside, but behind the scenes you're just trying to keep it together? Well, Rees Witherspoon knows that feeling too. That's when she decided to bet on herself, to pivot, to take control and start something totally new. Rees built a company, sold it for nearly a billion dollars and still she's just getting started. And if you've ever worried about money, security or about what's next, Reese has got the playbook. This week on Aspire, Reese talks about how to know when it's time

for a change and how to build something that's truly yours. I'm really excited to speak to you today for so many reasons, but the first one is that, you know, we all watched you and your career and you are like America's sweetheart, but you have done such a transition and such a pivot. And so for this particular audience, I'm excited to talk to you about, I don't know whether we want to call it your second chapter, third chapter, what it is, but Reese, the businesswoman, because you have been wildly successful. And I guess my first question to you is whether or not you pivoted out of necessity or ambition. I think both. I think I saw white space. And I also was driven by a passion for storytelling. And I also had a little girl that I really saw

this sudden dearth of storytelling for women with the complexity that really represented all women. And I just wasn't seeing Hollywood step up and develop those stories. So I decided to do it myself. Clearly. And you really did do it. So will you just talk a little bit for people that don't know about the genesis of Hallow Sunshine? Like, because you obviously had a production company before that and you decided that you would, you know, turn yourself into a media mogul. So let's talk a little bit about the difference between the two and what made you actually. star. What was that white space that you saw? Yeah, sure. I started my career in Hollywood. I was 14 years old. I did my very first movie. I was one of those lucky lightning strike moments where I went

to audition in Nashville, Tennessee for a movie, and I ended up getting the lead. So it was just one of those rare opportunities. But I was also prepared, right? So I'd done two years of acting classes. And my career just took off from there. I made probably seven movies before I even went to college. I ended up going to Stanford for a year, but I ended up dropping out. And just mainly because I couldn't afford the tuition, I decided to just really throw my shoulder into acting, and I started working a ton. So for the first, I would say 20 years of my career, I was an actress, an actress for hire. I didn't really produce. I didn't write anything. I didn't come up with original characters. And then probably when I was about 34, well, I will say when I was about, when legally blind came out,

got a production deal from Universal Studios for three years. They paid for everything, and I made zero movies. I was 24 years old. I didn't understand. I also didn't know what stories I wanted to tell. I had a great team. I just, I wasn't, I didn't have intention. And so then when I became, I mean, you were 24. I was 24. I hadn't lived enough of life to understand where the gaps were in the market, I didn't understand my business that well. And so I really, for the next 10 years, I was a mom, I was a working actress, working a really high level with every studio head in town, had great relationships. And we're, you know, talking 70-hour weeks and long producing schedules and long marketing schedules. And I just, I showed up and I was a good worker, you know,

and I was known as a really good worker. And then when I was about 34, I had this moment. that changed everything, which was reading this script. I read the script and it had a guy as a lead and I had two female leads and the women just supported the guy and it was all these crass jokes. And I thought it was awful. And they said, so I called my agent. I said, well, I'm not, I'm not doing this. This is going to set women back. And she said every actress in town wants these two parts. And it was this huge moment for me where I was like, this is what you have to offer. first of all, not just the actresses, but the women in the world, this is how you want to showcase women in the world.

It was disgusted. I was angry. So I went on a campaign, a listening tour. I went on a listening tour. And I, you know, called on my studio head friends and say, hey, can I sit down with you? I just want to hear what you're developing for women at your studio. And going to see every head of every studio, all seven of them. Only one was developing a woman, a female lead in a mom.

movie. And they said, they said to me, we have one movie that's starring a woman this year. We can't have two. Okay. Yeah. Even though we're... And this is not, we're not going back like 50 years here. We're talking 10 years ago. This was 2011. Right. 2011. And I was like, wow, this is just some, this is not acceptable. Yeah. It was, yeah, it was mind bending. But it's interesting to me that you took that as fuel to start something because I feel like there are so many people that either take what's on the table or they sit with the rejection. Not everybody goes like, well, I can do something with this. And I wonder what you would say to other ambitious women about starting a company. Okay. I think this was a moment too because I did the wrong thing first. First,

I just complained. And I kept illuminating the problem. to everybody who would listen. All my really fierce, amazing friends, I would say, you know there's this issue. They're not making up content for us. And it was all this stuff about DVD sales had dropped out of the market and, you know, the cost for development

had gone up. And they were like, well, you know, I don't know how to solve. It's a systematic problem. Maybe alone. Yeah. Well, and I complained about it. And then I had this kind of aha moment

where I was like, okay, I can either admire the problem. I'm giving it a lot of attention. it or I can come up with a solution to fix it. And that was everything for me. So for the next six months, all I did, pen to paper, said, what can I do about it? And also, I'm the one complaining about this problem. If I think I'm going to fix it, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is, and I'm going to invest in myself. Because I'm my own best lottery ticket. I know I will pay off. You know. You're like, I can make this work. Well, I know. And were you that certain about it from the

beginning, were you like, I'm going to build a billion-dollar company because I know I can bet on myself. No, I never thought I was going to be a billion-dollar, $900 million. I never, never, never. I was like, no, I just knew I was going to solve a problem. I knew I read more books than a lot of other people. I knew I read super fast. I had a market advantage. So you were much more mission-focused. You were like, here's a white space, here's a huge problem, I'm going to solve the problem, not like I'm going to build wealth for myself. I'm going to start a media company. No, that wasn't my intention. My intention was create more stories for women, create more opportunities for different kinds of women to have the opportunity to tell their story. And then the other part, I haven't really ever talked about

this publicly, but it was me sort of wrestling with this fame dynamic. Oh yeah. Where I was getting all this attention, but he didn't want any of it. And I thought, how can I take that and use all of that energy that's coming at me and point it towards. to another woman who is working her ass off and deserves that attention. And it really worked, right? I mean, for your little idea to turn into not just this company, but a movement in the entertainment business, like there has been a seismic shift. I'm not saying everything has, you know, it's solved and it's all done, but there has been a seismic shift. And I think so much of that is owing to what you did and you being really loud and purposeful about

what you were trying to build. Don't you think? Well, it's definitely loud about it. Yeah. Because I feel like we all knew you were on a mission. Like anybody that read about Hello Sunshine, it wasn't like, pre-sociad a media company.

It was like, here's this giant problem and here's what she's doing to solve it. And it was very clear that there was like, this was a purpose-built company. And even as you were like attracting staff and bringing people on, it was like, oh, oh, everybody, everything felt like it was like,

like chess. Like, it was like, this is what we're doing. This is what we set out. do. Yeah. Well, it was very intentional. I think back to your point, I was really clear on the mission. Yeah. And the mission was also, we were, we were really fueled by this digital transformation, right? So suddenly everything went to social media platforms, YouTube. I was noticing marketing was shifting on my movies. We'd have completely different marketing meetings. And we'd sit in traditional marketing meetings. They did not understand social media. I mean, it was just wildly clear. And I thought,

this is a gap I can, I can bridge. So that wasn't something that was scary to you. Like every, you know, because if you start in the business when you're 14, there's a tried and tested way that you've been successful. You actually saw it as an opportunity as rather than a threat to your business. Yes. I always look at technology in the future as not like, oh God, it's going to make me obsolete. I look, I say, how can I harness it and teach other women how to harness it to create my business

or push us all forward collectively? You're not shaking in your boots at AI now. No, I'm pausing because there's some stuff recently that's really... It's, yeah. It's giving us pause. It's giving us pause. Yeah. And we don't have any regulation.

And we will. We'll get there. There's not a policy around certain things, but I'm not scared. Well, there's certain things you can't fight, right? I feel like it's like, how do we embrace it? How do we come together? How do we one and one has got to equal three at some point? But it's not going to work to shun what's happening.

Well, also when streaming started, it was really clear that the best content on streaming was long-form television. A lot of shows, binging. And a lot of, I think, traditional movie stars were reticent to go into a new format. Because we all came up hearing, don't do TV, don't do TV. TVs are the second, you know, that's our... It's like a step down. Yeah, it's a step down. Once you go to TV, you'll never come back to movies. I was like, you know what? No, I don't agree.

I think we're all moving towards a new reality. I was also watching my teenage children not go to the movies anymore. That'll show you. You have to look at those patterns and what's happening. I'm like, my kids don't even know where the TV is at home. They live on a device. They live on YouTube. Yeah, we have one TV in our house.

We used to have one in every room. Totally. And you wanted a big TV where I come from. It was like, we want a giant thing that takes up the whole room. Now it's like, no, thank you. No, thank you. It's kind of lovely for the house. Yeah, it's kind of nice.

Kind of romantic. Better lines. It's really, really true. Yeah. You have such a, like this, well, this is how I see you, but you have such a personality type that is synonymous with you. I said America's sweetheart, but you kind of look at you and you're like, this woman is so wonderful and so sweet and so sort of the earth.

So when you made this transition, do you think people took you seriously? Like, do you think people saw you coming? No. I think people knew I was a heart. worker, but I don't think. And I will tell you, it wasn't successful right out of the gate. Talk about that. Please. Tell me. Tell me more. When I started the company, I was in this like little almost run down office building because I was self-funding and I had two employees. You really, you self-funded from the beginning. So it was actually, you were truly taking a bit on

yourself with your own money. Yep. And I decided I had this producing partner and we decided to option two books. Our first two books were wild and gone girl. And so why- you were your first two books? Yes. Shut up! And I read it in galley before it was ever... You're like, p'o, p'o! But they just both hit number one, probably six months later. And I thought, oh, crap. You're like, I'm really fucking good at this. I would have been like, yep, that's me. But then I had to turn them into movies, and that's a whole other thing. It's like, it's great to have potential. It's great to get that star. But what are you going to do with that. So I knew I had to execute at a very, very high level. And so then we did. We executed a very

high level. And we got three Oscar nominations for three different women. It made a combined $600 million in box office. And I could not keep the lights on in my company. Oh. Oh, even post big little lies. I was doing big little lies and I was like, the numbers aren't mathing out here. I can't have, so we went up to four employees. I wanted to give them all health insurance. I wanted to make sure it was a great working experience for them. And I'm not talking I had fancy offices. I had three offices in Beverly Hills.

I mean, that's a nice area. But they weren't nice by any means. And it just wasn't mapping out. And what was that? Because I wanted to talk to you about the fact that you brought a CEO into your company from the beginning, which again, a lot of people feel like they have to, They've started a company, they've founded something. They need to be the CEO.

But you didn't do that. So talk to me a little bit about that timing. You're making all of these waves. You're doing the important work. You're actually meeting your mission and your purpose. But you're not making any money. And that bothered you, obviously. Because, again, for some people, they're like,

well, as long as I get this piece over here, that doesn't matter. Yeah, no. No. No. I was like, wait. So then I dug in again and I met with my friend who ran a venture fund. And he and I started talking about it. And he was like, well, what do you own of these shows?

I was like, nothing. And he said, well, how do you get to ownership? And I said, well, that's the magic key. You know, actors historically don't own any of their characters. I don't own El Woods. I don't own Tracy Flick. I don't own any of these characters. And so he said, okay, well, let's put our heads down and feel like,

this is a really interesting time where studios, streaming studios need you more than you need them. And I said, you're right. And he said, I think we could drive some really crazy deals. And so he and I got together and put together a business plan. And I was like, really, I'm going to ask them for these things that are breaking precedent? And he was like, yeah, you are. You're you.

And you bring, now you have social media followers. You're going to bring this marketing component too. You have, you're not the average producer. So you're not going to get the average producer deal. Could you absorb that? Could you take that in and go like, yeah, I'm going to run with that. What he said? I mean, I didn't believe it would happen.

But I was like, I'll die trying. Yeah. That's actually, you know, why not? Why not ask? All they can say is no. And then I won't go work for them. I'll take it. The other advantage I had was I would get a book.

And I had a really good taste for what would be popular. Not what would make you smarter or whatever. Where did you get that from? Reading so many books as a child, so many books as a young adult, so many books as a young woman and a mom. that I was like, that one's going to be really popular. I just know. So we had this, it was like this flywheel where I could pick a book,

take, attach a piece of talent. Let's just see like little fires everywhere. I said, call Carrie Washington and say, I always wanted to work with you. You and I are going to be producers. We're going to star in it together. And we're going to work for ourselves. And we're going to drive this like really great producing deal.

And she's like, yes, please. Thank you. Let's go. Let's do it. Yeah. And so then we go to market. we call these seven studios and we say, which one of you wants it? And it's a bidding war. So we'd say, okay, and also, you're going to break precedent and we're going to have terms

that you've never agreed to before. And that's what we did. And it just, we did it again. And then we did it again. And we did it again. And we created enterprise value for this company because we're building a library. I mean, at the same time as building the social media and the brand and brand partnerships with different, you know, great. Blue Chip brands. Is that indicative of what business Reese is like, like somebody that isn't fearful and unashamedly goes after what she wants? I'll tell you, I know what I know, and I know what I don't know. And I'm really, I have zero ego about saying, I'm going to stop you. I don't know what you're talking about. Can you explain it to me? It's so important.

So I feel like, again, a lot of women don't feel comfortable to do that. And I think it's one of the things that we have to learn that it's all right if you don't know. And trying to fake it is not helpful to anyone. Don't fake it. You're going to get yourself in deep mud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Deep mud. And so I would turn to my CEO, Sarah Hardin, and I'd go,

Oh, I love Sarah Hardin. Is that right? Yeah, she's a G. And she had sold all these digital businesses that had male founders, and this was the first time she'd approached by a woman who was like, I want to do what you just did for seven different companies. Let's do that. Yeah.

And she was like, great. I love to read. I love storytelling. But she kind of coached me for the first two years of our company. I didn't know anything. I did not go to business school. How smart of you to bring somebody in that did? Because I remember reading this amazing thing. And I don't remember if it was Charlie Munger or I think it was Charlie. But it was like, how are you guys so good at finding the right people to run your companies? And he said, we look for someone who's done exactly the the same job somewhere else and being wildly successful. I'm like, duh, duh, it sounds so simple. But again, it's like if you want to be successful, and I love this fact that you brought people in

that you could learn from, right? She taught you what you didn't know and you were smart enough to know what you didn't know. And so it says a lot about you as a person that you can surround yourself with people like that, but you don't feel threatened. Right. And she didn't feel threatened by me. And we had a really nice match of skill set. I'm a real creative. So I can sprinkle magic on things or I'm an enthusiast too. Like you, I can tell. Yes, totally. You have to be.

You can sell ice to Eskimos, Emma. I like to think so, race. I'm like, seriously, I don't know what's happening, what you're selling me, but I'm buying it. Oh, right, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.

But I'm that way. And Sarah's like, okay, we can accomplish one of those five ideas, race. But we're not going to do all five this week. Yeah. Okay. Fair. Because my brain just gets excited about the possibility. Of course.

And so... But you need somebody there to talk to you about business readiness. And a business can only do great things when it's ready to do those great things, right? So you've got to be, you know, you can throw all the ideas you want out, but the acceptance rate is not always going to be there. And so it's so important to have that person beside you and to know you need that person beside you so that they can say, it's time for this thing now. That's great, but maybe park it for a second. Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's good.

I needed her to keep the trains on the tracks and then also to get me to slow down. Slow it down. Do one thing well. Then we're going to add on another. Then she always say, crawl, walk, run. Yeah.

Yeah, which was really helpful. It's like a little traffic light system. Because I want to bolt. Yeah. Over the tower. Forever face. Which I just love about you. Oh, pay off your home, travel for life.

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So fast forward, you create this incredibly dynamic, industry-changing company, and you end up selling the thing for nearly a billion dollars. So how do you know or how did you know when it was the right time to sell? Okay. Well, timing is everything. As you know, market shift. Valuations were really high in 21.

It was a really crazy time. Media companies had a frothiness about them. And I thought this is a good time to bring on the partner. And so we really went into that process. First of all, let me say, I was so grateful for my team because I had this vision, but it didn't work if I didn't have world-class executives around me. And I got these women to leave their cushy corporate jobs to do something entrepreneurial. And I said, I'm going to give you equity.

And they didn't know what that meant. That could be a zero. Quite often is. I know. More often than not. But not for you, lot. No. And so when we got to the process,

another, I'm all about intention, right? And knowing what I wanted from that process, I wanted the best result for my employees, my partners in this, who had believed in my vision and walked with me towards the school. And then I also wanted women in the world to know that their stories mattered. And they are valuable. Women's stories are valuable. Mission accomplished. And that had never really been emphasized. in my lifetime. I mean, it really was. It makes me want to cry.

I could cry because I feel like there's one thing to set out to try to do something. It's another thing to do it. It's another thing to do it. It's another thing to do it. Bring everyone along with you and make them a load of money at the same time. And so I think kudos to you, Reese, because you've done something extraordinary with that company. And I've been, you know, in my research, reading a lot about you,

the last week or so. And I think it's really interesting because obviously, as you said, you sold at the top of the market. There's been a lot of news about your partner and some comments that have been made there. And I think it's kind of interesting because, again, you did what was right for you and for your partners and those women that left those cushy jobs.

I think about little me starting in this business and going, okay, well, the only opportunity really was to be an actress. But I probably am more suited to be a producer or a writer or a director. Why so? I'm a team builder and I'm not an individual. You know,

I'm more of like, let's all get together and makes this. And that wasn't something that was possible then. Yeah. In 1990, when I started,

nobody was talking about female directors. There were no people. There were like three female screenwriters that were successful. When I started in the business, I think it was like

two percent of films were directed by women. Yeah, I don't think you can underestimate that because again, there's so much talk about it now, but it was a very different time then. And it's, again, so much credit has to go to you. But I do think what I love. And Shonda and Mindy. But it's important.

You know, you built this company and you sold the company. And I just wonder what that feels like. Okay. It feels really good. It does. It felt like I was able to do something outside the Hollywood system that had historically been closed door to a lot of different people. So if you tried to have ownership, it was a no. If you tried to be a woman in charge, it was a no. If you were a person of color, forget it. So it just felt like it was breaking a lot of barriers. And it was also saying there's a new way to do things.

You can also look at things from a different vantage point and use things that you have inherently. That maybe, like, I think fame is like this, it's not my favorite part of my life. but I could use it towards my advantage. And you have to. Yeah. Yeah.

It made so much sense. Is there any part of you that wishes that you'd kept full control of the company? No, I'm really happy with my partnership there. I'm really happy. I've had a great, it's been four years now, of still working there and still operating. And it's just been, I've learned even more after selling it. What do you think you've learned since selling the company? well, definitely reporting structures and all of that stuff that I didn't understand.

I'm not only sitting in the board meeting going when they put up the P&L. I'm like, my brain takes a little nap. I'm going to just stare at the ceiling for a second. And I know that makes me sound like a dits, but I just know where I'm not additive. And I think one of the best things my friend Sir Blakely always says is like don't try to be something you're not. She tried to move into it, right? Yeah. Don't, they're not, they didn't hire me to be the CFO.

I'm not there to crunch numbers. Absolutely not. And you don't need to be all things. Like that's what I learned, I think, so early in my business journey because I would walk into these board meetings and I'd feel like everything was on me. It's like, no, that's why you have a CFO. That's why you have a data person.

Right. Like, I am not that. And it's so important to learn to lean into your, strengths. And I think that all of the great business leaders, we know, they happen to be really good at a handful of things. And the rest you have to outsource. It's totally fine. But didn't you find as you built your companies, you start to absorb it, like as osmosis. You sit in enough meetings. Now I feel completely, I could sit in your board meeting and know exactly what I'd ask. And it's, it's taken me time. But now I feel like there's this feeling of you can't

get in there, right? If you didn't go to business school, you can't start a business, and you're never going to be successful, and you're never going to sell it. And it's just, that's not true. It's just not true. Well, that's part of the reasons. Sarah Blakely, Whitney Wolf heard at myself, we were all looking at each other one day. We were at one of these conferences. You know, you were probably there too. We're on them. We just sat there and we were like, did you go to business school? She's like, no. Do you go to business school? No. Well, you know what it does. It gives you, listen, I think we all learn really differently. I am like super dyslexic, and I learn very specifically because of that.

And so I think that there's all different routes to take. And one of the main reasons I wanted to start this podcast is to show some of those ways and actually to show the exceptionality that comes from different people and different ways of thinking because it takes all sorts. And so I really just enjoy that what you bring is going to be very different to what I bring and with this room for all of it. Yeah. And I think we need people who are out there.

out-of-the-box thinkers to insert themselves in different ways. And if you look around your company and you don't have an out-of-the-box thinker, you're kind of at a disadvantage. Oh, you sure are at a disadvantage. So we had Tracy Ellis-Boss on this show. Oh, I love that. I mean, she spoke so highly of you. She said that you give the best money advice.

So I was like, apparently so. I was like, I'm going to ask her. I am called the treasurer in some groups. You are? I'm like, yes, let's know more about that. How are we making revenue and how are we allocating it? So what's the one thing that every woman needs to know about money? Do you think?

Oh, my God. Where do I start one thing? Well, go on. Give us it all. Well, first of all, I learned about money from doing things wrong. Yes. I don't know a woman, Emma. I do not know a woman who doesn't have a disaster financial story in her past.

Facts. Whether it's her, her best friend, her sister, her mom, her grandma, her auntie. Mm-hmm. She lost all our money. Or she got divorced and she got stuck with the bill or whatever financial debt. So much debt. And so I listen to every podcast on finances. I am so interested in financial wellness for women.

And just also a lot of what we learn is one course, three days in high school. We're lucky if you get three months. Yeah. And that was the end of my financial learning. And then I became this woman I was making money and I was a young mom and I did not save correctly. I'm fine. I'm fine. But you mean you're fine? You're not like, fine. I'm great. You're just like, are you not rolling in it like now? Like just fine. I didn't, I did invest properly. I'm not not saying that it wasn't, I'm completely fine. And, and I did well.

But I could have done amazing if I had learned a few things. And a lot of them are mindset. Right. Mm-hmm, about saving, about the steadiness of the stock market and index funds and diversifying your portfolio and making sure that you're looking at treasuries and you're looking at bonds and yields and things that are pretty simple if somebody says them to you in a, like if you're a visual person, you see a visual chart. I'm a visual person. So every time I talk to people about finances, I need it laid out. I need it laid out and I want cute colors. Yes. I'm just being honest. notes. I want a pleasing palette and a pie chart. Thanks. Damn right. We know what your business managers are doing.

Making this very aesthetically pleasing presentation. They're like, can somebody do the pie chart for Reese? But I love that you say that because it is all pretty simple. But again, we're not always having those conversations and sharing the information. What's the best piece of money advice you think you've been given? Don't get into debt. Do everything you can to not get into debt. and pay off those credit cards, or don't spend the money.

Like, it's yours. It's not yours, girlfriend. Yeah. And that was a really good piece of advice. Don't ever let somebody control you with money. Somebody says, I'll take care of it, and I'll take care of you, and I'll take care of this. That person could leave. That person can hurt you. You always keep your job.

Your job is your life insurance. My mom used to always say that to me. Oh. And my mom went through some tough stuff in a marriage with finances. really tough stuff. Yeah. And so to my grandma, not in the marriage,

but in like a family structure. I have this past of women not being taken care of financially. And so I think of. You too. Right? And as a little girl. Yeah, scars you.

Like literally, it's living inside me. So, so deeply. And that's why I have a passion for helping women understand. And also demystifying it, you know? Yeah, I feel like the demystifying piece is really, really important. Do you, are you the type of person that looks after everything

yourself or have you kind of outsourced all of that to a team at this point? I have outsourcing, but there's frequent check-ins. Same. Weekly. I'm the same. I like to have enough of that, you know, it's like one hands on it all the time. Like, I'm happy to let the experts be experting, but I need to like, I need it there. Yes. Yeah, I need it there. And then I also need checks and balances. I need to diversify things so that everything's not in one. investment or one savings account. Yeah. But that's it. That's what I did for a long time. That comes from your upbringing. It's like, if nobody teaches you that, you don't know. And you're just like, okay, the money sits all here and it's safe. But it's like, it might be safe, but it's not growing.

It's not doing it for you. Right. Right. And most people don't live in a way that savings is even part of their life. Okay. So I'm very realistic about that. Yes. You have to be. With my mom and my grandma always saying to me, you know how many savings. You know, know, my mom has retirement because she worked her whole life doing three and four jobs, including being in the military and being a nurse and working in a state university. But you have to think ahead. And you have to think about saving as helping your future self. Oh, yes.

Absolutely. What you don't spend today, you're saving for your future self. You're saving for 65-year-old Emma who doesn't want to have to worry about the gas bill. Yes. Yes. Yeah, I want to relax as an old. lady. Yeah, me too. Eventually at some point, no? I want to have a glass of wine and sit on a porch. A porch. I want to come on that porch. We're just going to sit there and tell our stories.

Talk shit about all they're like, you know. We're going to travel where we want to go. And our cute kids are going to there? Wouldn't it be joyful? Oh, my God, where you have the best time? They could be looking after us. Hmm. So you're saying with Hilton honors, I can use points for a free night's day anywhere? Anywhere. What about fancy places like the canopy in Paris? Yeah, Hilton honors baby. Or relaxing sanctuaries, like the Conrad in Tulum? Hilton honors baby.

What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives? Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties? When you want points that can take you anywhere, any time, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Book your spring break now. Today we helped a... Latte for Sam. Coffee shop, get an insurance quote simply and easily.

And made sure... A floral delivery van was able to make someone's day. We're the Hartford, with decades of experience ensuring millions of unique small businesses. When it comes to your small business insurance, Thank you. One size absolutely does not fit all. Get a quote or find an agent today at thehartford.com slash small business. I love that you say that so much is about mindset because I'm somebody that believes that mindset is everything.

And so I want to talk to you a little bit about your mindset and also Reese and leadership because you've clearly had to be and you've become an excellent leader to get to where you are. Do you have like, is there a leadership or a business philosophy that you have? How do you think about how you come into a room, how you lead people, or is it even something that you think about? I wasn't always a leader. I was part of a group. I never in high school, ran for a student office. I did. never wanted to be the person who raised their hand to run anything. That's crazy, because I think of you so as like, like, head of the school student president.

No, that was just a character I played in a movie once. Oh, damn. Is that where I got that from? I'm not Tracy Flecks. I'm not at all. So when my company came around, I'd had a lot of group dynamics. Filmmaking is a collaborative art. So we work with groups of 150 to 200 people per movie.

And we're all working in concerts with the same idea. And so I knew when I started my company, I wanted to have that same feeling. But I knew I had to be the director. And the most successful directors I've ever worked with have very clear vision. They also don't micromanage people who are very good at their jobs. So you hire the best and let them do their thing. But keep reminding people core values, core values. So it's really important when you begin your company to do that core

values, exercise. Ours at Heelsenstein, or optimism, humor, storytelling, a do-it-yourself culture where nobody's above any one thing or below any one thing. It's not hierarchical. And so they're defined and we can always go back and they're on the wall. So in page you forget, they're right there. I think one thing I always say, and I said this to my little kids, it came from motherhood. And you know when you're like about to cross the street with your kids? And you're like, okay, walk quickly, directly to the door of the grocery store. We're not wandering around. We're not walking in circles.

We're not wandering off. Walk directly. And so I started saying to my kids when they were little, walk with purpose in the direction you're going. And so when I started the company, I extrapolated that out to walk with purpose, right? We're walking towards a purpose of greater storytelling for women, greater recognition for female filmmakers and artists and authors.

But also you start to notice people walk. in the same direction with you. Oh, yeah. Especially when you have purpose. And especially when you have that level of clarity. Because I think one of the biggest jobs that you have as a CEO is to constantly reinforce those values, right? It's like, you know, as companies invariably do, hopefully, they get bigger, more people

come on board and you need to be that beacon that tells everybody where we're going. But I heard you, well, maybe I've read in an article that you say you have a bit of a problem with the word power. And when I speak to you, it's so clear that you are incredibly powerful and incredibly directional. Do you still have that in you? Power is just a hard word for me to handle because I think for years in Hollywood I watched abuse of power. Oh, yeah.

And power corrupting. And also people assuming power when they hadn't really done the work to have the power. And I watched a lot of women defer to powerful individuals. individuals that didn't really know what they were doing or talking about. So it's hard. The power feels like an empty word to me. I think... Are you more comfortable with leadership? Leadership is a better word. Yeah. I think we have a lot of great leadership at Hello Sunshine. Starting with you. Starting with me, but yeah, I've really, I hired a really great...

Well, because great leaders don't stay around, not a great leader, so you have to be, basically. I'm saying that you are. Well, because you wouldn't have that many incredible. incredible people in that company if it wasn't super solid at the top. Yeah. And I'm very, I recognize their efforts and I really try, and I hope I do a good job of this, of constantly telling them I appreciate them and I appreciate their efforts. Even if something doesn't work the right way, I also appreciate when people take accountability for mistakes.

I appreciate when people don't triangulate at a company or talk about another person, that we work together on problems. but Emma, I have learned an entire world of information in nine years that I've been doing this. Have you failed? Have I failed? Yeah. Well, I would say, you know, when I had the company and I had three Oscar nominations and eight Emmys for Big Little Lies and I couldn't do anything but break even, that was a fail. And I thought, there's something wrong here.

That's when I called my friend. And he helped me come up with a business plan. And that's when I hired Sarah Hartett. But have we had fails? Sure. We've had some stuff inside the company that I feel like we tried things. It didn't work. Just didn't work.

Certain verticals were doing really well five years ago, not doing as well right now. That's okay. I'd rather us try. But I'm really proud of the brand that we've built because I think it stands for something and consumers know what it means. Oh, yes, I do. You say hello sunshine. People are like, I know what that is.

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say everybody. But I would say, you know what's interesting? I went and spoke at a business school last year, and all the young women ran up to me. And they were like, oh, my God, I love your company. I love your company. And all the guys were still sitting down.

They were like, what company? Unless she was an actress. And you were like, and they were like, you don't know about her company? A lot of guys don't know about Hello Sunshine. Well, in fairness, it wasn't made for them. Yeah, it wasn't. They have everything else.

That's true. But women consume more media than men. Women control more consumer spending. And I thought we need to do better for women. They need to have better offerings and see themselves in movies and television shows. The other unexpected outcome of the company that I really didn't know what would happen is the financial gain for the authors. And that is a big touchstone for me because I've had, I've gotten letters, text messages. like a picture of a key, and I'll say, what is that, honey? And I was able to pay off my mortgage and buy this. I own my own home now. Game over. No? One sent me an acceptance letter to a college said, I paid for my son to go to college, where he's the first kid of my family go to college.

We're going to need more tissues. I mean, is there anything that could make you more proud and happy? I mean, surely not. No. No. No. Absolutely not. And these people are so deserving.

You know, in the Helllestone Shun who sold over $800 million of books. $800 million of books. I don't even know where to go with that. We don't even make any money off the book sales. What? We don't make any money off the books we choose. Do you want a tissue? No.

No, she's good. I'm not going to cry anymore in my own story. I'm crying. Wait a minute. What do you mean you don't? I don't care. Wait a minute. What do you mean you don't make any money off the books?

The book sales. No. So if we option the book and turn into a movie, obviously, we do. But I always. But I always imagined that there'd be some kind of reciprocal, back end, royalty. No. We just market them.

And we pick. I mean, it's a big deal, the whole process picking 12 books a year. And we market them and our whole team is behind it. And we have live events and we get people together and book clubs. My big vision was, how do we take the book club out of your grandma's living room? No, yeah. You sure did it. because there's this great quote by this guy who just won the Pulitzer.

His name is Persol Everett. He said, I think the most subversive thing you can do right now is belong to a book club. Because you're socializing ideas. Yeah. Totally. Absolutely. I mean, listen, I'm a huge reader and it is probably, you know, it's up there with my biggest pleasures in life. What do you read?

I'm so curious. I read so much. The problem with me is that I, right now I'm reading on tyranny. so let's just not. But I go back to things like over and over again, but I'm kind of eclectic in my book taste and, you know, I just feel like it's so good for the world that you do that, that you give this like other option to all the media and all the noise that's out there because there's something that's so good for us about when you can like dive into prose and get your head into something that you hold in your hands.

I don't know. Kind of... It's good for your mental health. It's good for everything, right? It's good for your memory. Yeah. It's good to change your neurological system just right before bed. It's good for your family.

Like, I have reading time in my home and it's like quiet with those one, two, three, four kids. Oh, my God. But they love it and it's like you're together, but you don't have to talk to them. Shut up. I loved reading to my kids when they were little. It's the sweetest. And my grandmother read to me and it was just... It was a big, important, cozy time in my life.

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brilliantly. Learn more at Schwab.com slash trading. I want to go back to just understanding the things that you've learned because obviously you've had a company that's been sold, you've had a company that wasn't profitable. When you think about the big takeouts and what you'd like to people to understand, like, what does that look like for you in having built and sold a company? What do you want people to know? I want people to know that this didn't happen when I was 21 or 22, right out of college.

It took a long time to figure out how I was going to take all this knowledge about my business and all the relationships I've built and pivot into something that was more entrepreneurial. That I had an opportunity to start a company at 25, and I didn't know what it was doing. So sometimes the best things that happen in your life and when you get to boss up is when you've actually done the hard work of being every version of every person on set, you know, or in your business. You need to know your business inside and out. You need to know how it makes money, how it loses money, why you're valuable, why you're not valuable, how you can add value. If your business is taking a dip, you better know why. Where is the future of your business?

where's it going? So I read a ton and I try to keep up right now. I'm just buried in AI going what's happening. And I'm talking to people and I'm meeting people who are tons of startups around AI. But you're going out of your way to immerse yourself so that you can understand and bring that into your business. Yeah.

Bring it into my business and also help bridge the gap for people, whether that's for consumers or for my like-minded girlfriends who have their own businesses. We're all sitting here going, okay, what are best, practices, which companies are you using? How do we protect ourselves? Okay, well, how do we harness this for the greater good? How do we do this ethically without putting real artists out of work? It feels like you're still super ambitious, are you? I don't know how to not be ambitious. It's a big part of my identity. How about you?

Same. Yeah. Same. Could you stop? No, I feel like when we're 65 and on that porch we'll be cooking something. You know, it'll still be going. We'll be like inventing the new supplements or something. Totally. Yeah.

Like solving all that almonds. No, and I feel like that's part of, you know, it's so much part of my identity at this point. And I look at you and I feel like once you've done something, you know, you've proven to yourself that you can see a problem, you can solve a problem, you can make things so good for everybody around you. Like, why would you not look at other things? Why would you not continue to be expansive? Like, it might be in a different way. It might not necessarily be another company,

but you are someone who has really made a big difference. And I don't understand why you would not want to do that again. Yeah, I also think sometimes there's a bigger, higher purpose to you being that person. You are who you are here. you are meant to be this person right now. You're meant to be this woman that people look up to and really listen to. And you're fulfilling part of your life purpose. And I think if something else comes my way or I know about it or, like, I just wrote my first thriller.

I never thought I'd write a book. I can't believe this. They literally told me, I feel like it was just like swooped in there at the last minute. It's called Gone Before Goodbye, right? Is this your first book? Yeah. It's my first book. Excite.

And again, partnering with a master, Harlan Coben, who is just an incredible thriller writer, who's written 90 million, like sold over 90 million books. What made you want to pivot again? First of all, 90 million books. He's sold so many books. Wow.

And he's really big in so many, the book is being published in 22 different countries. That's not helpful. And they sent me all the covers. I was like, what? But I'm really proud of it. Yeah. And it has a great woman at the center of it who is kind of re, I think it's reinventing the thriller

genre and put it like, why isn't there a female James Bond or Jason Bourne? No. Can you think of one? I'm sure there is. But I thought international world and this woman who has this really distinct skill set. And I thought, I've always just come in to be in someone else's vision, right? My whole creative life. And I thought, what if I build the whole world?

what if you did? Yeah. I did. I mean, I'm real. You're going to try. I'll see. I mean, how incredible. It really, really is incredible.

What you've done and what you've built and I feel like you will inspire an entire generation to think that they can actually do something really, really meaningful and have it make the difference in so many people's lives because when I think about what you've done, that's the most impressive part of it. That actually it's touched so many people and you've done it with grace and with intention

and you've touched people, you've entertained us while you're doing it, you sold it, you made the money. I mean, it's just like so many great things. But the best part about it is that people will watch you and go, I could do that. I hope so. I hope there's so many more Hello Sunshine's.

I really want some little girl right now to be hearing this podcast and go, I can do that. If Rhys can do that, I can do that. Oh, she will. A million per se. I love that you're here. Thank you so much.

This has been so nice. It's heaven. Like heaven to speak to you because you're the least disappointing person on the planet. Wait, do you have disappointing people on your podcast? Well, you know, you run into them every now and again.

I'm not going to lie. Maybe not on a spy with Emma agreed, but you know, not everybody is as cute and sweet as they seem on the screen. people, you're doing a great job because it's also a different skill. Oh, it's a totally different skill. Well, they hate me because I don't do any of what's on that card. They're like, that's not what you're supposed to say. All right, let's move on to rapid fire. What is the first thing you do when you wake up? Feed the dog. And then make coffee and then wake up my son for school. In that order.

Yes. I love that. Last thing you do before you go to bed. Kiss my son, good night. And take a bath and then go to bed. And I read. I read in the bath. You read in the bar. I listen to podcast. What podcast are you listening to, Ruth? I'm agreed. What are you currently aspiring to in your business life? To help women bridge this technology gap. We're in a really interesting time.

I want to help women bridge the gap. I think that's a great and very noble course. And what about in your personal life? To have hobbies that I don't turn into businesses. Okay. Good luck. I want to know. What kind of hobby are you going to have?

Well, right now I make chocolates. Oh, that's good. It's really fun. Are we packaging these chocolates? Listen, did I just say? Now, Emma's trying to turn into a business. No, shit. Okay, sorry, I'm just doing to do it business.

Or we'll put me in a glass shop. With a ribbon or something. I mean, we're in Nashville. You've got a... It's really fun. No? Amazing. And what is a book that changed your life?

So many books changed. The Measure of Our Success by Marianne Wright Edelman. It's a beautiful book. And she was this activist who marched with Martin Luther King, and she started the children's defendant. She's probably the foremost advocate for children's rights in America. And she wrote this letter to her sons on their 18th birthday about how to be a good person. Check it out.

It's powerful. I'm immediately going to check that out. Yeah. What is something that you valued when you started out that you no longer value? Other people's acceptance. I mean, it's nice. It's nice when people are rooting for you, but it's okay if they're not. And what is something that you value deeply now, that you didn't when you first started?

Understanding other people's intentions. Thank you, my darling. Yeah. This was excellent. You're the best. Oh, that was fun. Thank you, Emma. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform.

While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'll be so grateful. A Spy with Emigreed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emigreed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliard Fisher, Derek Brown, and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shorts.

Angela Paluso is our Booker, original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Holman. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my team's at the lead company and WME. Mora Karan, Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose,

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