Aspire with Emma Grede - How to Create What People Actually Want with Erin and Sara Foster

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

Erin and Sara Foster have spent more than 15 years working across television, fashion, media and investing. Today, they are behind the hit Netflix series Nobody Wants This, the fashion brand Favorite Daughter, a production company, a venture fund and a growing slate of projects—but their success did not arrive according to a master plan.In this episode, they join Emma to unpack the failures, pivots and unlikely opportunities that eventually brought everything together. It is a conversation about staying in motion when the path is unclear, discovering your strengths later than expected, and refusing to treat someone else’s success as evidence that you are falling behind.In this episode, Erin and Sara share:What nobody tells you about the years before anything worksThe power of saying yes before the path is clearHow they built Favorite Daughter without being traditional “fashion girls”The different ways scarcity and abundance shape their relationship with moneyWhat Erin learned from seven years of IVF and 20 rounds of treatmentWhy it’s never too late to find your lane and how failure can redirect you toward the career you were meant for

Erin and Sarah Foster are having what looks like one of those overnight success moments. Their favourite daughter, a growing fashion brand. They have nobody wants this, a hit show on Netflix. They have a podcast, a venture fund, a production company, and this whole ecosystem that suddenly feels like it's working everywhere at once. But what I loved about this conversation is how honest they are about what came before that. The years when the phone just wasn't ringing, the jobs that didn't work, the things they said

yes to before there was a clear plan. and the failures that quietly became the foundation. We talk about their partnership, money, privilege, ambition, IVS, building a brand people actually believe in, and why women need to get much more comfortable with saying what they want and what they deserve to be paid. They are funny, sharp, deeply honest and proof that sometimes the thing that looks late is actually arriving right on time. Here's Erin and Sarah Foster.

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Head over to Macy's or shop online today. Erin and Sarah Foster, welcome to Aspire. Thank you. I'm very happy to have the two of you here. It feels like a really freaking long time coming. I know. Right? I know.

It really does. I have so many things that I want to talk to you about, but I just, I feel like I've been surrounded by, you guys ever since I first moved to L.A. A good thing or a bad thing? Well, you know, it depends on the day, if I'm totally honest. But I do feel, and this is the thing that I'm most excited to talk about, that there has just been this groundswell of success for the two of you in very recent years, despite you having been around and having done so much.

And that's what I really want to talk about, because I feel like, specifically with my audience, there will be so many women that are sitting there in their late 30s, in their early 40s, that have ambition, that have drive, that have work ethic, and yet they still are looking for permission. And I think the thing about you two is that you've never been looking for permission. And I really want to understand where that comes from. I mean, I would say that a lot of our career choices have been really directed by failure because when something wasn't working, we had to figure out something else to do. And then so many things ended up working kind of all at the same time. But a lot of it is due to being on a path and that path having a lot of blocks

and feeling really frustrated and feeling like that path is no longer available. So then saying yes to something that is adjacent that maybe we would have said no to if we were operating out of fear, but it worked and it always redirects you back to where you need to be. So like I think about, I was trying to be an actress in my 20s and I was pretty bad at it all. honestly, because I was going out for, I don't know, all these dramatic roles. And I just, like, wasn't in my body. And I didn't really know who I was. And I was trying to be really, like, edgy.

And I'm just not really that edgy of a person. And I gave up acting. I mean, sorry, acting gave up me. Like, my career wasn't happening. And so... I think I gave up both of us. Yeah. But out of that failure...

God has a try. Out of that failure, I redirected and thought, well, I actually want to try being a writer. So then I was like, okay, I'm a behind-the-scenes person. I'm a writer, right? And then just this last year, or this year, I'm guest starring in our show. Nobody wants this as an actress. And I had that moment of feeling like when you walk away from something wholly completely accepting it and really diving into something else and hoping that that thing works, a lot of times

the universe will end up giving you the thing that you used to want, but in the way that you're meant to have it. There's so much. Like, when it, like, I think it's really important to, like, to list it all out, right? Because you have this incredible brand in Favorite Daughter. It's a $150 million brand and, you know, or going in that direction. You have a hit show that has been nominated for countless awards, not just like once, but like for multiple seasons. You have the venture funds.

You have the podcast. You have a production company. You have so much happening. But, like, forgive me for saying, I feel like almost none of this was happening. I don't know, like half the time. that I've known you guys. It all seems to have kind of come to the fore, kind of seemingly around the same time.

So what is like, what's the through line? I think the ecosystem was starting, but all of the things that we have, the seed was planted in a really unglamorous way. There would be no favorite daughter if we didn't do this little T-shirt collab with this little brand that nobody had ever heard of for no money.

We didn't even have a lawyer, look at the contract place. I've got to talk to you about that. I know. What are you talking about? No, ladies, if you're listening, never do that. Don't do that. We always say, we have a cautionary tale. Like, don't do.

But you really didn't have a lawyer in that deal. You just like, you know, got instinct. You were like, we need to do this. We're not really doing. And by the way, not that anyone tried to screw us over because we didn't have a contract or anything like that. It was just taking that deal that we were doing and then launching it into its own brand for favorite daughter. We just obviously weren't planning for that.

Because for context, what happened is you did a deal with another brand and then you used the parent company to do a J-Bron. be to launch your own brand. Well, it wasn't the parent company. Somebody from centric brands saw the t-shirt collab and thought, there's something to these two. That's, that's a brand. And I remember looking at Aaron being like, no, it's not. That's like, why would anyone, we don't have a fashion background, we're not considered stylish. Nobody thinks of us as fashion girls. We don't go to fashion shows. We're not even invited to fashion shows. Why would anybody want a brand from us? Okay, so that's your daughter. Which we still kind of aren't. Which we still really aren't. But in that is your genius, right?

because I feel like with you two, you turn up and you kind of look how every girl would be happy to look. Yeah. And kind of any girl. And I mean that in the most flattering way, because in that life, it's a ton of the enormity of this brand. It's like, as you guys say, it's like nobody wants to spend a thousand bucks on jeans, but everyone's happy to spend a couple hundred dollars if they make your ass look the best it's ever looked in your whole life. And so that's what you guys have capitalized on, your normalness. I'm not wearing $3,000 pants. I'm just never going to do that unless someone gifts them to me. And then I, I still, it's like a bottle of wine. I like, well, no, what I'm supposed to wear them. I think that we're being ourselves, you know, like we, we are intimidated by the fashion world, and most women are intimidated by the fashion world. So we chose to connect with those women, not the fashion girls. Which I think is so smart of you in such an amazing business decision. With the hit show that is just so amazing, by the way, and I think congratulations to the two of you. I'm wondering how much that's opened up for you. Like, what are the deals and the operations,

opportunities look like post the success of that show? I mean, I think we've had two kind of monumental moments in our career so far. I don't know if you would agree that have opened us up to new things. And the first one I would say was when we took the creative director job at Bumble. That completely put us into a new category, a new world in different rooms. We did something with you and Yens. Oh, you remember that. For frame. We went to hospital together. Yes, yes. So that's put us into a world where we started getting deal flow. People started coming to us saying, we're watching you move the needle for this company.

Do you think you can come try to move the needle for us? So there was that. I think that put us into a different light. And then obviously with nobody wants this, that is like completely put us into a different light. Our production company, Aaron is a writer, me as a producer, Aaron is a producer. But again, we've been trying to get shows made for over 15 years.

She's crazy. So it's not like Aaron just one day was like, ooh, maybe I could write and started typing something and it was a hit. She's had failure after failure after failure. We had a TV show that we thought was going to be

the next curb year enthusiasm. It got canceled after two seasons. So like... Yeah, that's what I was going to say also is like when we were in Aspen with you, that was when we were... This was 2017. Yeah, 2017.

And we were creative directors at Bumble. And that is the only reason why we have a venture fund today. So for where your say, or where most people are sitting and saying this kind of almost felt like it came out of nowhere. But in 2017, when we were trying to figure out how to help Bumble be relevant, more versatile, more relevant, whatever it was at the time. Us working with them was what usured us into, you know, now guest starring on Shark Tank and

investing in brands. Like that brought us into the tech space or the investment space at all because it was the first time we ever had equity in a company. And was that planful for you? Or did you realize something incredible was happening? And actually our influence can go outside the entertainment industry. None of this has been planned. And I think that this is, I think it's tough because I think it's natural to look at other people and go,

I want that. I want to be Emma agreed. I want to be the fosters. I want to be this. I want to be that. It doesn't work like that. It just doesn't work like that. Nothing that we have done has been us sitting there going, ooh, what can we do?

Okay, we're going to need a brand. We're going to need a perfume. We're going to need a podcast. We're going to need a this. We've never been intentional. in other ways with our integrity and authenticity. But we have never intentionally mapped out all these categories that let's try to disrupt, let's try to do, never.

And what about now? Do you do that now? Now given the trajectory and what you know is possible and what you're capable of, is there a plan for now for the next five years? I mean, I know my plan, but... I mean, now we have at least something tangible to look out where you can say, I want this show to have a certain number of seasons, or I want our brand to be worth this amount of money

or be in this many categories. So I would say we probably have more of a plan today than we used to where we were sort of aimlessly grabbing on to whatever worked. But I think Sarah thinks more tangibly like that than I do. It's hard to say no to things right now because I always, Aaron has an abundance mindset. I don't have an abundance mindset.

You have a scarcity mindset. Yes. Specifically when it comes to money? Everything. Everything. Everything. I'm the oldest of three. I knew that my,

I knew when the child support check was late because I was the oldest. I paid attention. Like, I have a different relationship to money and abundance than Aaron does. So I, for me, have this mindset of I have to say yes to this deal. I have to say yes to this because it's going to go away. And I'm never going to have it again. So I'm really trying now in life to water the seeds that we have planted. Enough is enough.

At some point, you have to go. And maybe you guys disagree. Enough is enough. I mean, I agree because I'm always sort of happy with. where I am and I don't feel like I need for more. If this was the peak, it's an amazing peak. But I feel like you have to be in a place where you love your life, whether you've gotten all the things that you wanted or you haven't gotten them yet. And I loved my life before I got all these things. And that within itself, though, is a point of view that, and let's just be honest about this,

right, because we know each other and we're friendly. It's like you also, like you grew up in a way where you're not wanting for something. Like you guys are ambitious because that is what is within you, not because there was a need. Like I feel like my ambition comes from a place of not understanding. Survival. It's survival, but it was also like if I didn't do, then I wouldn't eat. Like it was just like you're on your own and you have no choice. And I think that we could be complete, you know, low life losers with no job.

not going to live on the street. No, you'll be all right. For sure. You'll be all right. But I think sometimes that mentality of maybe feeling like, I don't need to hustle and enough is enough comes from this place. Do you know what? I've always been all right. And I'm always going to be all right. Yeah. I mean, I think, yes, we've always been all right. At the end of the day, if we, you know, couldn't pay our rent to Aaron's point, we wouldn't be on the street. But we spent many, many, many years with the phone not ringing. Yes. We spent many, many years where I was doing catalogs for JCPenney modeling bras for $1,000 for the entire weekend or whatever it was because we did, yes, of course, we grew up with a father who was very

privileged, who came from nothing. He worked very hard to get to where he was. He grew up poor and he was one of seven kids and he was the only boy, six sisters. His dad died when he was young. He was providing for his family at a really young age. He did not raise us like my princesses. We've never been called a princess in our lives. We didn't have the dad that was coddling us and making sure that we always felt taking care of financially. He instead kind of created resilience in us. And he always looked at us and said,

let me be very clear. I'm rich. You're not rich. I worked very hard for this. If you want this lifestyle, then you should go get it by working your asses off. And he had very high expectations for our work ethic and was very hard on us in a way that today I'm really grateful for

because he did. create this sense of, like, if I want a life that I love, that I have to create it for myself. We always wanted to become less dependent on him at the earliest age possible so that we could feel good about ourselves. Yeah. You know, I think that there's a lot of, like, when you're not living up to your potential and you're not living your life based on your own merit, it feels very bad. Yeah. And what is challenging, I think, for us with this, like, visible parent in the world is that everything that we create and earn on our own today continues to be credited to being a Nepo baby.

And it's something that if you fight it, it just kind of gets worse, so you have to let it go. But it is hard when you are a very, very hardworking person that you are giving up time with your children, your marriage, your friends, free time. You are so devoted and dedicated to doing something to its fullest extent in a way that is responsible.

and you'll always sort of have that label. No doubt. But I also think that when you credibly have an actual talent, right, which for you, you are an excellent comedic writer, like that is also very, very difficult to have that constantly thrown at you that you've got to where you've got because of something else. Because at the end of the day, you're only as good as the work that you're putting out there. Like, no one can write for you.

Like your dad can't put you, you can get some introductions, but the end of the day, you've got to come up with the ghosts. Your dad can also give you like a profitable fashion brand. People think like, oh, he must just be sitting there on Shopify sales sales. It's like, absolutely no. We've never had family put one dollar into any venture that we have ever done. All that being said, though, we have to like pause because there's like there's two parts of the coin. Like on one part of the coin, yes, your dad cannot nominate you for an Emmy for best comedy of the year, right?

But then Aaron always says this. Aaron's like, at the end of the day, when you grow up in the privilege that we grew up, you are exposed to rooms and you are exposed to people treating you a certain way. And that is invaluable. The privilege actually comes from areas that people don't even call out. The privilege comes from, we're not new here. We know how to operate in a room full of overpowering men that want to take advantage of you or manipulate you. We grew up in that.

We were sitting at tables with successful CEOs of companies. We got advice from those people. We've been exposed to success. That feels different than being dropped in L.A. And having to wait tables and not knowing anybody. It does make it different. It makes you more savvy and it makes you more confident. We don't feel like someone's going to fuck with us.

So we didn't have that, you know, like batting eyelashes, sort of damsel and distress thing. And that is a privilege to have. have that. 100% and more to the point, people knew you. Right? Because I feel like,

you know, I actually came here having been pretty bloody successful in England, but nobody gave a shit. You turn up in Beverly Hills, they're like, so,

yeah, or slash it that you did over there. Cool marketing agency. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. And so actually, I feel like, listen,

and we can sit here and talk about, you know, privilege and being an EPO baby, the fact is, and it's very clear because otherwise I really would have zero interest in speaking to you too.

You've been unbelievably successful and everyone starts somewhere. And I think that what you have to, what I think is sometimes missed with the two of you, is just how much you have manoeuvred. Like just how much you've been smart with where you started, what you have, how you've come into rooms, how you've come into situations, how you've leveraged it. And that is the value that I think anyone sitting at home can really learn from and understand. Because when I kind of think about you guys and I think about all the things you've done, you were actually going in very different directions.

Like you were out here modeling and acting. You were riding. And actually, it's the coming together of the two of you and the partnership that you've created that's actually brought out the very best in, I think, both of you. What do you think the sign was that you needed to come back and work as a partnership? Where did that come from?

Well, you started it with barely famous. I'll never forget. I was like living my life in Florida, you know, with Tommy. I had Valentina was like a little, you know, a toddler. and I was like on a bad TV show, but it was a steady situation. And she called me and she was like, I have an idea for a TV show.

We're going to write it. We're going to star in it. And this is what it is. And I remember being like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm going to stay on my bad TV show. You're writing. And that sort of changed everything.

That was 2015. And so we had this show and it became this sort of cult classic. It seemed like everybody in the industry saw it, but it was the lowest. rated show, I think, on all of television. So nobody else actually watched it. But that was sort of the first...

Yeah, we'd never work together before that. We'd never worked together for it. And I had my first professional TV writing job on a staff, and I got fired. And it was a Murphy show. Yeah, he didn't fire me. Why did you fight? I think just wasn't a good fit, I guess. Well, she got fired the last day of production. Yeah, I got fired the last day. It wasn't, it wasn't fun. It was more just like, don't come to the after party.

You're down here. It was one of those moments where you think it's a low. And it ends up being like just such a blessing because it really woke me up. And there are sort of different paths you can take as a writer where you can have a really great successful career writing other people's shows. And it's a great living. But I really realized on that job that that wasn't really. really what I wanted to do. I wasn't enjoying the process of writing someone else's joke structure or someone else's story. I really had my own story that I wanted to tell. And so getting fired

did sort of shake things up. It was like my biggest fear realized, oh my God, what if I'm a bad writer? What if I'm bad at doing this? And then I just sort of took this opportunity to try to develop something of my own. And the chances of getting something like that sold is like nothing. But I didn't know that at the time because I was so new at it. I had tried to sell one show. It didn't sell. How old are you at this point? I'm 30 at this point. Okay. So you're young, right? It depends on how you look at it, right? I mean, I feel like it's young to go out and be shopping your own show. It is, but also I think it's a good reminder for women who are 30. Because 30 is such a scary age. I was 29 turning 30. It's such a scary age where you think that you have to have everything already

figured out. And 30 is when I was just starting to understand what my superpower was. Yeah, what am I even good at? Exactly. But we also have more grace for this age now because we had podcasts like this and like ours where we're telling young women, guys, 30 is you're a baby. You're a baby. But 10 years ago, we didn't. 13 years ago. Okay.

13 years ago, I just don't think women were armed in the same way with the information that they are armed today. No way. And I still think even so today, I speak to so many kids that are just fresh out of college and they feel like they're supposed to just walk into the job of their dreams. the thing that they are supposed to be doing. And I'm like, dude, it's a journey. Do you know how much shit I've done?

It's the fear and it's the flailing bit that really gets you to where you need to go. You have to suffer a little bit. You have to be lost and confused and scared and freaked out. No, you need all of that. But I also think what happens like in the culture and in the media at larger, there are just so few people telling the truth. Like so few people actually say, I was fired. It sucked.

I did all of this dog's work and it didn't work. out and I started this business and like people are just not entirely honest. I think there's a lack of self-awareness. Yeah, and they'll give you a little like authentic sprinkling, but they won't really, really tell you. And I think that that is again, one of the reasons that you guys have such popularity and such a community around you because you do tell the truth. And people are drawn to people that they believe are just not sugar-coting things. They're just going to like give them the information and not gatekeep and say, this is what

it looked like for me. And that's really what barely famous was for us, which is why it was such a big jump point, because we had been spending our teen years and our 20s going, you know, no, we're not trying to be famous. We're not trying to be famous. We're not just trying to be these LA VAPid reality stars. Like, that's not who we are. And so then we made this comedy about two girls who are these Vapid reality stars trying to become famous. We took the thing that we were so scared people were thinking of us. And then we just decided to be in on the joke. And, And that's when everything shifted for us. Everything.

Because all of a sudden, I feel like you were seen as that you were in on it. Like it wasn't happening to you. Exactly. We're going to take this and we're going to create from it. I think when you have low self-esteem, which I really suffer from low self-esteem, Aaron does not, which I think is amazing. I think you're so afraid for people to think that thing about you that you think about yourself. When Sarah says she has bad self-esteem or low self-esteem and I don't,

it's not that we don't have the same initial. instinct of like a negative voice around something about ourselves. It's that I hear the negative voice and then I push past it. Or Sarah will let that negative voice control what she decides to do. I don't. I hear like, ooh, I think that's like a bad picture of me. And then the second voice is like, I'm not going to live like that. Put it out. I feel exactly the same. It's not like I don't have the bad days. It's just that I am resolute that that is not going to be the thing that stops me. Exactly. It's like I've got to go past that. When we started developing the cotton range at Skims, we could have just

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I'm launching a new show. It's called Money Moves, and your money is going to move. We're going to help you make better financial decisions. We're going to call out the BS. You're finding all over social media. We're going to give you actionable guidance to make your financial life clearer, less stressful.

We're going to answer your financial questions and take the mystery out of it. of your financial life. Follow and listen to Money Moves with Jill Schlesinger, wherever you get your podcast. Something that I have wanted to talk to you about for the longest time, because I know that you went through talking about pushing through things. You went through 20 rounds of IVF. And you did all of that while you were creating, nobody wants this, which arguably is like the biggest, most successful, brilliant thing that you've done. And I just wanted to understand how were you able to do those two things and hold those two things.

Well, it was going on over the course of like seven years. So it wasn't, you know, it was sort of, it's, it sort of just became a part of my life, you know, because you think, I'm going to get pregnant, I'm going to try to get pregnant. I had frozen my eggs like three times before I even met my husband just because I was almost 36 when I met him. And I only got a couple eggs each time. But I thought like, you know, it's not the insurance policy that most women think it is. Now there's a little more awareness around it, but the likelihood of that egg working is just very low.

If you have 10 eggs frozen, they're sort of just like empty little vessels and you have no idea what's inside them, how good they are, or what's going to take. It was a shocking number of cycles that I went through. And I guess to answer your question, there was a point where it was like my whole life was wrapped up in getting pregnant. and I was so sick of thinking about it and sick of talking about it. And it was hard for the people around me because there's not really anything you can say that will help. I started telling everyone like, please don't ask me questions when I go to the doctor.

Like there's only really one update to give you. Yeah. Which is I'm pregnant or I'm not. And I promise I'll tell you if I'm pregnant. But until then I can't say like it grew three centimeters or the eggs or whatever. No, what she went through is you're downplaying it. It was gnarly. It was gnarly.

It was bad. I mean, I had no idea that you were going. through, you know, I'm not one of your closest friends. I had no idea that you were going through that. And so from an outsider's perspective, it was kind of unimaginable that as you were having all this success, you also had this like hardship. And then I remember actually just reading your caption because I was like, oh my God, she's had the baby. And I read that caption and I was like just stuck in my seat because I was like, wow, 20 rounds and what that takes. Like, it really is extraordinary. It did really.

really shift my perspective in my life because there was this thing that I wanted more than anything. And I've wanted to be a mom since I was like a teenager. Like I've always been very clear. When Sarah had her daughter, Valentina, and I was what, like 26 or 27, Sarah was never the mom that was like into, you know, kids' birthday parties and stuff. So I'm like, I'm taking her to the kids' birthday parties. I had a car seat in my car when I was single in my 20s. Like, I'm like, you got music. Yeah. And by the way, that's when our relationship about. actually really changed when I had kids because we were like, well, she can't be mad

at me for that long because she wants to see the kids and you know I'll keep the kids from her. If she's a bitch to me, yeah, if she's a bitch to me, I'm like, well, you're not going to see the kids. You're not going to see the kids. But the point is that there was this thing that I so deeply wanted and the universe wasn't giving it to me. Every single round was worse than the one before. I mean, there are times I woke up from anesthesia and they're like,

there actually wasn't any eggs in there at all. And I'm like, sorry, I was doing medicine for a month and there's nothing in there. Like, it was real lows, right? There were no highs. There was all lows. But never once. Never once.

As all of her friends around her, pregnancy after pregnancy, she always was happy. I think I even said to her once. I was like, wait a minute. Is that hard for you that your friend is now, like, complaining that she's pregnant with number four and it was unexpected. And she's like, no, like, I'm happy for them.

Oh, I don't know how you did that. You showed up to every baby shower with a smile on your face. You never were like, poor me, ever. And I think that's why the universe ended up giving you that thing. I don't think that that person's pregnancy is stopping me from getting pregnant. So they're not connected, right? I really was just focused on what my journey is. Why is this not happening for me?

It definitely sent me down a non-toxic journey. I stopped wearing nail polish. I stopped eating certain foods. I started drinking certain foods. I started, I did every method. You know, the problem with trying to get pregnant is that every method tells you that the other method is wrong. So one person's like, if you aren't drinking the pregnancy smoothie, you can't get a pregnant. The other person's like, if you eat cold,

food, you're never going to get pregnant. So now I can't have the smoothie. So you're doing so many things and everything makes you feel like you're doing something to stop you from getting pregnant. Whether it be the food you're eating, the things you're putting around your body, or that you are thinking about it too much. All of it is your fault. Didn't you love when people are like, just don't think about it. Yeah. It's a really mean thing. Please don't say that to people. Ladies, never say that. What do you think going through that and I don't want to spend too long on this because I know it's a very sensitive subject too. But I'm just interested to understand what going through something like that does to you in terms of your perspective, how you think about your life,

your business, the importance of everything that you're doing. Was there a big shift for you? Yeah. I mean, there was a point where I thought, okay, I might never have the thing that I want. Am I going to let it ruin my life? Like, I have to be able to be happy without this thing. I have good people in my life. I'm, I have an amazing husband. I'm in a happy marriage. I have a great family, like, I love my nieces and nephews. I don't get to decide, right? It's not up to me. So if it never happens, I'm going to be miserable forever. Like, I didn't want that to be my fate. So I do think that you can apply this to many situations in your life, which is, yes, there's a thing you want. Yes, you might never get it. Are you going to let that stop you from having a good life? I do think that we

decide what's enough and we decide if our life is good or not. Like, you can decide you're the luckiest person on the fucking planet. And so can the person next to you. Like, you decide. I believed when I was living in a tiny rental house and couldn't get pregnant that I really did have the best life. And now I'm living in my dream home with my child and my husband. And yes, I do think that I have a perfect life.

But I also felt that way 10 years ago. Abundance mindset. I feel really lucky to be here. There she is. Mm-hmm. And you old scarcity over there? Yeah. Look at Sarah.

For me. I got nothing. For me. I want to switch up again because I think one of the things that you guys have is like such a clear like brand point of view. It's very clear who you are on what you stand for. You're the basic bitch. You said that, not me. Absolutely not. No, but I think like as a person that comes from like a marketing point of view and someone who is very planned about everything by the way,

it would like if you two were my clients, I would find it so easy to like map out here's what I think you should be doing. And here's where you guys are going to be successful. Ooh, will you help us? Any time, babe. Anytime. Just let me in. But I wonder, like, when, like, at what point did you guys really start to trust the thing that people seeing you? I still don't. I still, like, think to myself, I'm like, what are we doing? Well, people really respond to the fact that you two are yourselves. Yeah. Right? I think, like, that's what you have. Like, I feel like it's very believable. Like, I don't look at you guys and favorite daughter and be like, they're not wearing that.

Uh-huh. But we're both head to toe. No, no, but I believe it, and I know it to be true. But it's like, I feel like the stuff that, the thing that you do really, really well is being yourselves. Yeah. And so I wonder, is there at some point where you were just like, we're just going to fucking lean into that. I mean, it's pretty freeing when you, and it's like, we didn't invent this.

Everybody knows what's the thing you would try if you weren't afraid to fail, right? Like, we all know that. But I really do think once you realize that nobody is thinking about you or watching you the way that you think they are, once you're, you're thinking. once you stop and go, no one actually is watching, just go do your thing. Go be you, go try. I have an amendment to that though. Even if they are watching, who cares?

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because sometimes people are. Sometimes people will want you to fail, right? Sometimes people are applauding the thing that didn't work. So it's like, okay, so what's the worst thing that happens? We fail. Everyone sees that we failed. It goes up in flames.

Okay, then what? Like, am I going to die? I agree with both of you entirely. And it's something that I wrote about so much in my book because the fear that holds us back is like so, it's so stifling. It's so stifling. But once you get to that point where you're like, oh, you know what? I failed.

Everybody saw and guess what? I'm still fucking fine. Yeah. And I still have it in me to go again. Like that shit is freeing. What it does is it actually builds confidence. It builds the ability for you to understand that shit's not going to kill me. Yeah, it builds confidence.

It really does. Because you don't wake up confident. You actually learn confidence through going through shit. and it being just fine. And it's not just work related. I mean, it's being rejected by love, right? It's having someone look at you and go like, I don't find you attractive.

It's someone looking at you and I know that's ever happened to you. It's happening us. It's someone going like, I don't want to be with you, right? Or just ghosting you do. It's never responding. It reminds you of your humanity. It's like, oh, okay, you didn't have the same experience that I had. You don't feel the same way that I feel.

You don't want the same thing that I want. It's like it creates this new version of yourself that I do believe is the same thing you're using when you have to push through discomfort in your career. 100%. But how do you get to and how have you two got to the point where you've been able to control those emotions and understand that about yourself? I don't think we do. No, I don't think we do control it. But I'll tell you this. We're lucky to have each other.

I always tell my girls. I'm like, guys, I don't want you to go to college because the thing you're going to major in is going to be. be the thing that you end up doing. I want you to go to college because I want you to meet your future co-founders. I want you to meet your future co-founders. I love it. I know. Can I tell you were going to pull her on that. I know, but I say, but that's, I'm not just saying that. I want you to go to college, not to learn what you do today, but so you can start a business with somebody. Well, to just meet your people, whatever that is, your lifelong friends, the people you're going to start a business with, the person that's going to hire you. Like, you need to go meet your community.

because I think we are all sitting here knowing without our community, we're nothing. That's it. So I tell my girls, that's why you go to college. Like, I don't know. Maybe that's bad advice, guys. I also tell them to use AI when they're doing their homework. So Erin goes to Sarah, that is, you cannot,

I was telling my 15-year-olds, I was like, go on chat. No, you did not tell us to go and chat. She was, she couldn't figure this thing out. I go, girl, go on chat. Is that terrible parenting? No, we still terrible parenting. My point of view is that I'm, for myself, concerned about my level of thinking.

So it's like, I don't do anything first on chat. Like, I'm going to think it through. I'm going to come up with my own shit and I'm going to use chat to make the thing better. You want to preserve your brain cells. I want to preserve my brain cells and I want to preserve my ability to come up with new shit. Totally agree. That's not an idea machine. It's just a betterment machine.

So I'm like, you know what, I'm going to come up with some good shit. And you, Gray and Lola need to come up. come up with good shit. And then you can use AI to check and to make it better and to tying it up and to all the things. Sarah's doing it a different way. Yeah. It was mad. You know what?

It was mad. I won't judge you. I don't care if you do judge me. And I don't care if you judge me. I really don't care. I said this on the podcast. I was like, I know I'll be judged for this. I know people are going to have a thing to say that's going to make me look like a bad parent.

That's okay. I'm interested in that because I do feel like the, well, especially you, Sarah, basically. You've like, you say shit all the time, right? And people come back at you and they're like, oh, my. God, I can't believe she said this. I can't believe she expressed this view. Yeah. I remember a specific conversation with you because our kids go to the same school. And so we, we have these things every now and again where you'll text me and be like, what do you think about this? And I'll be like, well, I don't know, what do you think about it? But you're not one who holds back. Like,

what happens when you face that backlash, when you get the opinion on your opinion, like, how do you deal with that? Look, I'm not going to lie. I think for a bit, I was like, I don't care. Nothing affects me. It's cool to care. You know? I don't. I think for a long time I thought it was really cool to not care. It's not cool to not care. It's cool to care. I do care. I don't want people to not like me. For sure, I don't. But I, it is very hard for me to not say how I feel. I just got to stay my course. And the second that I start shaping my brand, my persona, my whatever to fix it. You're not going to make anyone happy. I can say one thing and then I'm going to have 10 people go, yes, girl, yes. And then I'll have

20 people, be like, she's the worst. I just can't think about it. Do you ask her, do you say, hey, should I post this thing? Should I say this thing? I mean, listen, because we are so amesh, because we are so entwined and it's, things are bigger than us. Do you know what I mean? We don't need Netflix coming for us. We don't need, I, there have been a few things where I said, hey, Sarah, can you take that down? Please. Can you just simmer down, girl? Yeah, no. You know, like, that's my livelihood. Yeah. Yeah. Like, so I've written her saying, like, I got to say, I got to say, blah, blah, blah. Maybe it's not the best time.

Let's let the Emmy nominations come out. And then I'll post. But for the most part, we really do let each other. I usually just say, like, if you can just get the grammar correct, then I'm good with you posting whatever you want. Just know that shit from my own. Look, I think I don't connect to people who are so focused on being liked by everybody. That doesn't connect me to you.

It might work for everyone else in this room. But for me, it doesn't make me connect. I'm not going to look at that person. and go, you know what, I trust you. I want to buy what you're telling me to buy. I want to go do that thing you're telling me to go do. If you stand for nothing, it's just not for me. Do you think about it in the context, though, of your brand? Like, is that part of the authenticity that you're going to say what you think and have those moments of less popularity? Oh, yeah. I mean, I think because we're outspoken on certain things, we've lost podcast listeners, we've lost favorite

daughter customers, and that's okay. Have you won anything? Have we won anything from that? Has anything come from... I think so. That's a good point. Yeah, I mean, listen, people stop me on the street all the time. And they go, I just wanted to say, thank you so much for saying that thing that I think, but I'm too afraid to say. Yeah. That happens to me a lot. And...

Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of Jewish people come up to me and just appreciate support that's unpopular. And it means a lot to them. Aaron's a Jewish woman. And she's, you know... Converted Jewish woman. Converted. Yeah. No, I understand that. I mean, I think that when you say something that chimes deep,

with people. I've been speaking nonstop in the last like few months. And if somebody else feels like, do you know what, they're a three-hour mom too, then they will come up to you and they will say, hey, I can't believe like you said that thing. And that really made me feel seen and it made me feel validated. And I never thought about even moderately saying something for the controversy. And that's really what I'm trying to ask. Like, do you get to the point where you're like, you know what, I'm going to say that thing because actually it's going to increase sales, that's going to get me feasibility. I wonder if that ever happens that way around. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, by the way. And I think a lot of people do that. Maybe I should be by the way. I'm asking like,

seriously. I should probably be more. There's not a lot of strategy going on. Yeah, I'll do. But look, people are addicted to being mad right now. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that there's a lot of bad things happening in the world. We all know this, right? I think everyone is on high, high, high vibration and not always in a good way. And people are addicted to being mad. I'll catch myself sometimes going down because the algorithm is too smart. It knows when it's getting us. It's very powerful. It's so powerful. So I'll sit there and I'll scroll and by the end of it. I'm furious. I want to go fight someone. I'm like, I am so I get it. And I'm somebody who's even keel. I'm pretty, I'm just saying. I'm not like a psychopath, you know. So I can see myself how I can get. I can see what it does to everyone else who has a smartphone,

who has access to all of these apps. I think we're just living our lives as honestly as possible. And however it affects, you know, the bottom line is how it affects it. But it's not something that we... It's less strategic than that. I'd say there's no strategy. There's no strategy. Yeah. So let's talk about the things that have strategy because you have a lot of success.

How do you think about, because again, you do lots of things that are very different? Do you divide and conquer? I want to understand like the crux of your partnership and how you think about the brand versus the fund versus the podcast versus the writing and the show. What does that look like? A lot of dividing and conquering. A lot of dividing and, I was just saying the other day, the way that the name, favorite daughter, came about is so indicative of our partnership,

right? It's just, it's, so here's how it happened. So, like, 15 years ago, we needed to come up with an LLC for some paperwork with our sisters, right? And Aaron didn't even tell anybody. She just went to go sign the papers. This was not an LLC anyone will ever see or know about or anything. And she was like, oh, favorite daughter, right?

I don't even think. I just named a favorite daughter because it. Because you just needed a name. You could have named it. Well, no, every, you know, our dad would joke with us that each one of us was the favorite when the others weren't around. Everybody's family does that. A joke.

You could have named it. Carpet. Yeah. And no one would have ever known. I'm more clever than that. So when it came to the T-shirt collaboration, we were putting 15 different captions sayings on T-shirts and sweatshirts. Like there were a million.

And I said, oh, wait, remember when you did that thing, whatever? That's cute. Should we do favorite daughter on one of the T-shirts? shirts. And Aaron goes, no. I was like, that's stupid. Aaron goes, she's. I was cheesy. Yeah. I was like, it's too cutesy. It's like, little girl. Like, I don't know, it's like for kids or something. We have our edgy queen over here. So funny. Edgy queen. The edgy queen was like, I wanted to be like, yeah. Yeah. I'm going to die with my cats. You know, life is miserable and metal, you know, Metallica. And I was like, I think it's, I think we should do it. And she was like, no.

And I was just like, okay. It was a little hard on it. And I was like, like, Go to the town girl. It was one of 15. How many of those t-shirts did you sell? Two million dollars. That's actually fucking insane. Of the t-shirt. That's insane.

Along comes the opportunity to actually create a brand. Tell me you got a lawyer at that point. We got a lawyer. We got a lawyer, but very smart people that we trust very much said, this should be a licensing play. A, this should be a licensing play. Or B, go raise your own money. Don't give away 50% of the company in a joint venture off the money.

You can go raise money. that. A hundred percent of the people we ask who are in the know told us not to do this. Do not do this partnership with Centric. They said do not do a 50-50 joint venture. There's a certain kind of home that just feels calmer and a lot of it comes down to how the kitchen is set up. The tools you cook with, the pieces that you leave out on the counter and the visual noise that you're waking up to every morning. Our place has built a whole brand around getting that just right. The newest release is the 13-piece cookware set, which is a smart way to upgrade the whole kitchen at once.

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exactly London's specialty, but it did make it feel like summer. And after that, we've headed back to Europe for a longer stretch with the family. Now, between all of it, I've been away from my base for a of the summer. And I know so many of you are doing or have done the same. And that is part of what makes Airbnb so smart. If you're going to be away for a while, listing your space on Airbnb is one of the more useful things you can do at that time. It fits into how you're already living and can even help you bring in some extra income towards future travel. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. I love a 50-50 joint venture for obvious reasons. Absolutely. Because you've got to know what you've done.

fucking knows. Exactly. Right? It's like you guys knew what you were good at and you could have your partner, I'm assuming,

doing all the shit but you don't know. We're not going, we're not doing the supply chain. Entire back office infrastructure belongs to your partner. And you guys make the creative decisions.

We do what we know how to do and they do what they know how to do. We are not in Portugal or Turkey or sourcing new things moving factories when all the tariffs are happening. We're in the know.

Well, by the way, you and I were texting about tariffs. Yes. Not like you're completely out of the No, no, it doesn't. That's being that we're removed from it. It means the people that we are partnered with have taught us how to function on that side of the business.

The business wouldn't exist without this partnership. Has it been a good partnership for you? Incredible. Talk to me about the business. Like, where is the business now? How is it doing? Incredible. I mean, look, we're going to be five and a half years old pretty soon.

That went quick, didn't it? Yeah. It feels like it really did. We're going super hard in growth this year. We want to open more stores. We were always told for so long, don't open stores. We were told for so long, D to C, D to C, D to C, own your customer, do not like have other partners.

You have to have almost an equal mix. You have to have it for visibility. Yeah. You have to have it. It's free marketing. I would love to say that it's 70-30, but it's 60-40. I would say 60-40. 60-40.

But honestly, I think if I'm really honest and I look at the businesses that I'm involved with, the more mature, the more it evens out. Like it starts over here where you're like 90% D-to-C. And over time, it kind of, flattens and that's just the way of the world. And I think if you look at all of those incredible D2C brands that maybe we were envisaging when we started, Everlane, O'WB, like, you know, like all of those companies, it's just like it isn't what we thought it was going to be. And I think the brands that are winning right now, it's like their distribution. You need the distribution.

But also, you know, it's important to say that we didn't start this business and then walk away. We don't let any single piece of this business get away from us. So tell me what it's like, working with a partner like this. What's the reality of your business relationship? What have you given up? What have you won? We haven't had to give up anything. I mean, the truth is they want to make happen

what is important to us. And then they teach us what is not possible and what's possible. So we understand the margins. We understand the bottom line. We understand how to make things profitable. But they understand what our wants and needs are. So we don't ever, ever take our eyes off something. So if we say, like, we really don't like the idea of that fabric content,

or we really don't like the way that looks, or we really don't like how that fits, or we don't want to go into that category too fast, then they slow down or they speed up. Then they switch things around. Like, they come to us and say, they defer to us on everything. Yeah, they say we need to make two new buyers.

They're driving strategy. Both. It's a true JV partnership. I talked to our CMO five times a day. Amazing. I don't. No, but this is the divide and conquering. So here is the beauty of our partnership is we would not have as many

favorite daughter customers if we didn't have nobody wants this. So, and there would be nobody like Aaron and I sold nobody wants this under a little small production deal that we had. at Disney five years ago. It's important to know everyone passed on Nobody Wants This. We pitched eight things and they were like, it was called Shixat. It wasn't even called Nobody Wants This and she was going to start in it. So it's like, RIP.

It all worked out. It all worked out. What's really interesting is it was so clear to me how that the vehicle of the show was going to have this positive effect on the business. I think there's a misconception around how much favorite daughter is in Nobody Wants there. There is very little favorite daughter. in the show.

I mean, there's enough. There's enough. I think what happened is you two as business women were elevated through the show. And all of the sudden, it was like, oh, what else are they doing? Oh, favorite daughter? And so I don't look at like product placement. I just think something you were credible. Sometimes it's written about that we're smart because we put favorite daughter in,

nobody wants this. And the truth is I was really careful. And it's why I feel like the need to say it is that, you know, there could be a conflict of interest there that I was really mindful of, which is that there is a costume. director on the show, she decides, you know, what she thinks all the characters

should be wearing. Of course, I make the final decision about what I like, but every single time that I'm sent five look options for every character, for every scene,

which I do look at and I do choose, I know if there's favorite daughter in one of the five. Absolutely 100% of the time I choose the one that I think that they look best in. And nine times out of ten,

that isn't favorite daughter, just because that's how it goes. And it doesn't make a difference to me. I always want what's best for the show. So there's no like agenda of pushing things together if they don't naturally fit. I think that's clear. Yeah. It feels really clear.

What is the ambition for the brand? Like I know you say you don't have big strategic plans, but like is there something that you guys are specifically working towards? Are you working towards an exit? Are you working to just growth? Are you just trying to take money out of the company every year so you can have a nice life? I mean, look, we want to open. I think we want to have 10 stores.

The goal is 10 stores in the next, you know, 18 months. like we want to go quickly. And we think in categories too. Handbags are coming out. Launching handbags. We launched shoes. We have other categories that we're working on that we try to roll out slowly and responsibly because sort of to your question of when does it get away from us, the answer

hopefully is never because then it won't feel as congruent as it does today. You know, the reason why the brand feels like us is because we have our hand and everything. And if we let it get away from us and somebody else is making those decisions, I do think that that's when things start to feel like they're making cheaper decisions and that things don't feel as authentic anymore. We don't want it to get away from us. So we really want to keep it in our control as long as possible so that it feels authentic. I also feel like there's some judgment when, and maybe it's just with women. I don't know, but there's judgment around, yeah, I'd love to be acquired. Like, there's nothing wrong with being like, I'd love a windfall. I would love favorite daughter

to get acquired one day. That is my main source of income. So I sit here, it's my main source of income. Yeah. I mean, We have obviously other channels, but favorite daughter, that is my main source of income. So favorite daughter is profitable and actually paying you guys? Yes. Yeah. Yes, it is. And has been for like three years. And it has been.

We've been profitable for a while. But, you know, I think it's okay to say, yeah, it would be fantastic. Yeah. One day. Why would it not be okay? What the fuck is the point otherwise? I don't even understand that. I feel like we vilify founders.

I guess, look, we did not. What are you doing? Like, what, the love of making. Yeah, this isn't charity. button-up shirts. Guess what? I'm not, like, I know disrespect to anything

because I make like blue jeans and button-up shirts, too. But you're not, do you know what I mean? You're not, Christian Dior. You're not doing it for the art form. You're going to build a company. It's going to be really profitable.

Hopefully you'll have an exit and you'll have a winful. Like, are there wise, no, of course. We would love. We do a lot of charity in our life. This is not charity. That's not the thing.

We would love for a favorite daughter to be bought, but I don't think we would want to leave the business. No. Hypothetically, if somebody came and said, here's X amount of dollars, we want to buy favorite daughter. And we don't need you.

I would be really pretty bummed. No, I'd be so sad. I'd be sitting here with the bigger bank account. Yeah, I mean, if it's a billion dollars, I'd be able to. I can get over it. I mean, it really depends. You can feel sad. I can get over it.

And then you can be like, oh, I'm happy. I was. I was aimless for a lot of my life. I was purposeless for a lot of my life. Favorite daughter gives me real purpose. And it feels great to get out of bed with the excitement of what can we do today? What can we do today to gain one more customer?

What can we do today to endear ourselves to the customer that we already have that hasn't shopped for a while? I will call our CMO and I know the name of our top 20 customers. I know their names. I know their occupations. I know where they live.

I will call her, I will say, has so-and-so shopped? When was the last time she shopped? Okay, you know what? When is her birthday? I want to send her a gift from me and Aaron. Send it to her. Damn right.

I do this all the time. So I think if I didn't have that. I got into some disagreement about something where she's like, this thing isn't good. And I was like, no, I think it's good. And she goes, oh, really? Well, our number three shopper hasn't shopped in seven months. And she used to buy every single cut of those jeans

and she hasn't bought them. And I was like, okay. I was like, you need like a drink. No, if anything is going to guide you to the truth, it's your top customers. Like when they stop, like the shit, I literally have seen things go in decline. I also, I always look at the staff

because I'm like when your staff stop buying, Like when I see staff like purchasing go from one number to this number, I'm like, oh, I'm about to have a shit season. Yeah, that's a really good barometer. It's the number one thing because if they're getting a discount. I was just a saying, they don't want it. Oh shit. Then you really is not good. Then you know you've got a dud of a season.

So let's talk about the money because you're doing the most. You're doing a lot of things. Like where are you making money? You said yes, you're making money in favorite daughter. Like podcast. Okay. Podcasts, I mean, look, everything we do is generating profit, right? Because like finally, but for so many years, it did not. So podcast, production company, favorite daughter, brand deals. But our brand deals, we are now a little bit more careful with. It used to be... Are you 50, 50 and everything? Well, production company, we're 50 50, but as a writer, she's got different income. Podcast 50-50.

If she wants us, it's different because I have writing fees. Of course. And by the way, as she should. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's crazy. Being a writer is awful. But everything else is 50-50. But we do other things. She's on the board of the EWG. I'm the face of Bobby Brown cosmetic.

Like, we do different things. Of course. That money's going to you. You're sitting on a board and you're being, you know, remunerated for that. That's going to you. Everything else is 50-50. But then I'm on the phone with Greg Grenfro going,

Aaron should be the face of counter beauty products. Like, she's the perfect face for you. I love that she's out here pitching you. Don't you love her for that? Yeah. What's good for Aaron is good for me. And what's good for me is good for Aaron. But Sarah's more motivated by money than I am.

No shit. Yeah. Well, Aaron has a husband. And Aaron is in a dual-income household. I am in a different financial situation. But I also have the feeling. And she makes more money as a writer. No doubt.

But I also have the feeling that you are just more motivated by money, regardless. Yeah. I think that's too. And I think you take one to no one. So I'm just saying it. I think because of my scarcity mindset, I always feel like I'm going to have nothing. Fair enough. I mean, you guys meet a lot. Because I wasn't different before I was married, to be clear. I know she wasn't. That's what I mean. I think I get that from you guys just as like the default who you are. By the way, I forced to write nobody wants this. I was like, bitch, typeie, typeie. Yeah.

What are you doing? She's like, get on it, girl. Literally, I'm like, where are the pages? Because once I got married, I did sort of think like, honestly, I'm good. I'm kind of good to just chill. I was like, Erin, Disney is paying us. We are in an overall deal at Disney. That means they pay us to generate content. We have no content.

I was like, write a show. I feel like Britney's fear sometimes. She's just making me work. I want to understand what you think that women get consistently wrong about money that perhaps men don't. Oh, God. I think that what women don't know about money that men do is that you deserve to have it.

Actual, factual facts. Yeah, I think there's a lot of like apologizing around wanting to get paid for something and there shouldn't be. Yeah. Like you were saying, like, it's okay to want your business to succeed. It's okay to want to make money off of something. It's okay to be paid and remunerated for your services.

Men are very comfortable asking for what they think that they're worth. And what do you think the reason for that is? I think it's taught at a really young age. I mean, we're all responsible now with daughters and sons to teach us, to teach our kids something different. Don't you also feel like, you know, the joke, like all the big deals are done on the golf course? All my male friends who are in finance or investors or private equity or whatever, they all bring each other in on all the deals.

If there's an SPV, if there's an allocation into like a friends and family IPO, they bring all their friends, all their male friends. I don't know. I don't have... I don't have... I don't have... I don't have that many women. There's also a scarcity mindset

where we feel like there's only one availability. Well, there's only one spot. And listen, for so long, that has been the truth. Yeah, it's true. And so I understand why women feel like that. Yeah.

I actually think that it just takes a shifting behavior. I'm getting all this credit for being healthier around my money mindset, but it just made me think that when nobody wants us hit big and then I was offered a bigger overall deal, my first thought was, I don't want my friends to find out how much money I just made.

It's not that I was like, well, I'm going to tell them. And like this bitch, she's going to tell them anyway. You might as well take it. Don't work. But it's not that I didn't think someone would be happy for me anything like that. It just felt like, I don't know, it's easy to be happy for your friend when they're down or when they're struggling or they just came up. But if they really come into money, I don't know. Maybe it shifts how people interact with you or how they feel towards you.

and I didn't want any like negativity around it. And so I kind of wanted it to be under the radar. Facts, it's true. You didn't tell anybody. People were like, what did she just make? I was like, don't ask her. Okay. That's so funny.

Because I tell everybody. Really? Yes. You have to remember, like I come from, like, I come from a place where money was spoken about with E's, right? Like when you don't come from a lot, it's almost the opposite. You're like telling everybody what you have all the time, even when you don't have it.

So I have an ease of speaking about money. money. But what happens when you don't talk about money, when you avoid the subject of money, the money avoids you. And so what I realized is the minute you start speaking about it, the minute you're forthright with what you want, the minute you say the fucking number, like it attracts it to you. And I don't mean in some woo-woo way, I mean, you asked for something. You were clear about it. And it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy, but you've got to say it. Like you literally have to say, oh, I made X. And by the way, the next time you go and speak to X, X, Y, Z studio, like, you need to ask for that and you should probably use this lawyer to do it.

And by the way, I paid them X to do my deal. I love that you do that. Yeah, you don't get. That's really great. Gatekeepery person. You know, when you say that the way you grew up is a part of the reason, I think when you grow up, I know, when you grow up the way that we did, there is a lot of resentment around you being the girl that has money or access to things or a nicer car or a nicer house. And so at least my instinct was always like sort of hide it a little bit.

down because I want them to like me. I do think that there's like a thing though where people feel like people that, and you're going to deal with this with your kids, and I'll deal with it with mine and you, where it's almost like, well, you don't deserve it because you were raised in privilege. So you don't deserve it. I do think that we have dealt with a lot of people feeling that we don't deserve

the success we have because of the privilege that we grew up and without people even having a fucking clue. How do you favor of that? We grew up very different than people assume. we grew up. But how does that make you, like genuinely now, as you sit here with the success that you've had, knowing the work that you put in, and I know you, I know that you both work extremely hard because I've never seen you not working, not chasing something. Yeah. And so what, like, how do you actually feel about that now? Like, are you at the point where you're like, I don't

give a shit or are you still somewhat hiding and somewhat apologizing? Yeah. I mean, it's hard to not compare yourself to other people. We're human and it is hard to. It is hard to. to not look at other people going, why don't they get, why is there no stigma around them? We do feel like there are a lot of people in this industry who are doing a tenth of what we're doing and never get called out for having a famous parent.

And that is weird to us. We catch more strays than other people. And I don't know why, because we're doing a lot. I think people act like our dad is like Brad Pitt or something. Our dad is like a behind the scenes musician who is wildly talented and works for everything he has. But I guess there's a part of us that feels like

we have had to be sort of elite and everything we've done to be taken seriously. We're not in music. It's not like we're following in someone's footsteps. But I ask myself a lot often, you know, what is that? And in some ways, I think our resistance to it attracts it. You know, the fact that it bothers us only draws it closer.

And that's something that just like we have to figure out. I was thinking about the other day, I was like, even at 16, right, when most 16-year-olds would want to like be on TV, right? Like there was our dad and his, they had a reality show. And even in like 16 years old, we were like, we don't want to be on a reality show. You're like, that's not our part. Let's do it different.

By the way, being on reality TV, that is amazing for so many people. Like that is, there's no shade on that. By the way, we look back and we're like, we probably should have done that. We just thought that people wouldn't take us seriously if we went down that path. And now reality stars are taken really seriously and we're called someone's daughter. And it sucks. What do you actually want someone to know who had a different start to you guys? About us?

What do you say? Well, it's a two-fold question, actually. What do you want to know about you? But also, what would you say to a woman that actually feels resentful? Of course. Absolutely. Because you must get that all the time. You must get that all the time.

You know, my dad, I don't have a dad that can buy me a clothing company. Yeah. I mean, look, I think that relationships are more important than we talk about. I think that, and Aaron always says this, again, I don't think you came up with it. But, like, follow your envy, right? No, I did not come up with it. I know, I'm saying you did not. I think like Glennon Doyle made it.

It's such a good one. You have to follow your jealousy for sure. You have to follow it. I spent a lot of time looking at what other people were doing, feeling jealous, or looking at other people being like, well, why don't I have that? Or why can't I make it an acting? Or why can't I? And it does nothing but just block your blessings.

The universe does not reward that mentality. So I do think that to the person listening, I think that person that, person that you might be jealous of or that person that is doing way better than you at the office or better than you at the company, endear yourself to that person. I think find that person and say, I want to learn from you. You can't replace showing up and wanting to connect with other people. Like, that's irreplaceable. Like, I don't want to hire the Wharton, you know, graduate who comes and sits in front of me and has no personality. No, I'm not interested. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested

and being around the person who sits there and might say, I'm not the most qualified for this. I know you're going to meet other people that are going to be way better for this, but I'm going to tell you why I'm of value. And that's the person that I'm, like, way more endeared to. So I think if you were listening, I think everything is at our disposal now. We have social media. We have YouTube.

We have TikTok. We have all these things. I get way less views than some, like, random mom that does, has no connections, whose dad isn't in the music business. She's crushing way harder than I am on TikTok. like I don't know. I also think that to that person who might feel that way, I think it's a natural instinct to put ourselves in the inferior position

and somebody else in the dominant power position, right? Like you girls are sitting here and you have all this and I have nothing or I want those things and you don't deserve it or I don't want you to have it because it's taking it away for me or I deserve it. And I can only call it back to the thing we were talking about earlier where I couldn't get pregnant for seven years and there was everyone else around. is getting pregnant, your success is not my failure. And I never felt like a victim. And because of that, I don't sit here today and define myself by my worst experience. I'm not melodramatic about it because

I don't want my story to be 20 rounds of IVF. That's just one thing that happened, but also all these amazing, beautiful things have happened in my life. And I think that we all get stuck really leaning on the story that victimizes ourselves and decide that that's who I am. So I think the person who's listening to that might be putting themselves lower than us and it's easy to feel resentful. But like you should not look at yourself that way. Something worth appreciating about right now is how much has changed for anyone thinking about starting a business. Now 20 years ago, launching something meant physical infrastructure, large upfront capital and figuring out most of the operational side without much guidance. Now, today,

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than ever. Stars and Honey protein bars are now available at Target stores nationwide. Pick up a box during your next Target shopping visit. When this is like something I think about when I think of you too all the time. Like when honesty and authenticity, like, is your brand. And so defining of the way you do business and the way that you've found success and the way that you show up every day, like, is there a difference between like just being honest and being who you are and the idea of like having to perform that to say consistent with what it is that you're doing and how you're becoming successful? That's so interesting. I feel like we're at this sort of inflection point with the brand and with the podcast and with everything

because things are changing so fast. Discoverability is changing. How are, you know, it's like, I think we wrestle all the time because we don't have like a social media team. Aaron's not on TikTok. I have like four followers on TikTok. I post like once a year.

Like I think that we struggle or I know I struggle with this thing of like, wait a minute. We need to be out there more and we need to be more highly produced and we need to be more professional and we need to have more of a social presence. But it's not authentic to me. But that's it so much about the certainty of like and the clarity of who you are, right? That there's, you know, you started this conversation by saying that you had a lot of insecurity. Yeah. That's actually the opposite of that. That's like a self-possession that you have that's like really clear about what you shouldn't be doing.

No, but I wrestle, I do wrestle with and then I go back to, okay, but if we, if I start doing TikToks, people are going to see right through that. I mean, I post on TikTok occasionally. But if I start doing. this thing that I think people want from us, then I think it, I don't know that it would resonate. I don't know that it would do what I'm hoping it would do. Yeah, or I also think because there's just a cost to anything

that doesn't feel right. It's like incongruent. No, I'm launching, I'm launching like this thing, sort of Q1 next year and I looked into what it would cost. I was so glad you brought that up. I kind of got the feeling.

Are you launching some kind of like, what did I get when I read it? Like a one skew, like a one skew, like a vitamin, wellness situation. Yeah. I love that. By the way, that was not born out of me being like, I need to be the founder of another company. This was born out of, it's the thing that I do every single morning. It's the thing that didn't exist. I was on my way to the airport,

literally Googling all the ingredients that I take in one, thinking like, I'm just going to buy it because I need it because it's missing from my life and it didn't exist. And I called my business partner, Phil, and I go, what I think I need to spin this up? Like, what would it cost? Like, how much we can invest, my fund can invest, your fund can invest. I think we need X amount of dollars. I think we could do this for like a million and a half dollars. Like what do we want to hire somebody who's like a crazy P&L monster that can run the crap out of a P&L? Do we need a mass marketer? Like what do we need? You can do so much with AI now. I mean, you can create an entire business plan on AI. I mean, we created the entire just like on. Yeah. But I think it's good for you

to say that because yeah. That's accessible to so many people, right? And you can entire thing on chat. The entire thing. And were you launching when? Q1. And you raised 1.5. Yeah. Yeah. Can't do that on chat. You can't. And look, it could be nothing or it could be something. No, but I mean, you make it look like a real brand. I mean, Sarah said this thing to me. I'm like, who made this? And it's like, chat chitb-t. No, I did, I did everything on. I mean, I have no doubt. I do think that there is. All the branding and all that. Yeah, but there's something so amazing about the fact that that is, that was just not possible.

Yeah. Right? Because at the end of the day, you could have done that whole thing on chat GPT. I'm sure you could, you know, you guys are used to starting things

at such a level now. I'm sure you don't need 1.5 million. You could launch it in a different way, in a different, you know, landscape, whatever it might be. Look, I need to hire a great CEO

and a great CEO cost money. Also, because you're at a level now where whatever you do, there is an expectation around it. Do you know what I mean? It's going to have visibility. You have big ambitions for it. There's so many different.

ways to start a business. And I think that really trying to utilize, like, what is out there now and what's the uniqueness of the time that we're living in and what does that enable you to do is the surefire way everyone's going to be able to start things. I was thinking the other night, I was like, I'm not on TikTok. This business is going to fail. I was like, I don't, I don't. So I have so many insecurities still, you know, of course. Even around doing this, I'm still going like, oh God, how embarrassing if I make it a big thing. thing and then like, you know, everyone has all these high expectations like, oh, you have a following so it's going to do, it doesn't work like that. It doesn't work. That is not, those days

are long over. Let's attach a celebrity. I'm not referring to myself as a celebrity, but and then all the sudden you have a brand. No, no, no, no, no, no, doesn't work anymore. So what even gives you, and I, I give this question to both of you, what even are you thinking about as next for yourself? like what are you aspiring to specifically for this brand, but also like more broadly in your life and your career now? Everything. I mean, I would say we're really excited about the show. We have a bunch of shows, other shows in development.

That has it? Destination's Wedding. Who bought Destination Wedding? They also bought two of our other projects. Yeah. So I'm writing another show on the break right now. We've optioned a couple books. We've optioned a few books that have been bought.

Oh, I heard you optioned Tinks's book, right? And then we optioned another novel that's kind of like a sexy, sexy hour-long mystery. Really, I have a sexy mystery. Yeah, which we have a fantastic writer who is writing it. Yeah. Look, I think favorite daughter is so exciting, obviously. I think you don't want to wait too long if you want to be acquired, right?

Like, I think a lot of brands find themselves in that situation where you've waited too long. No man's land, you're out. You're out, right? If you get too big, people aren't, they're like, what are we going to do with you? Exactly. So I think. I mean, there's not a lot of. buy is even when you don't get big.

Right. Right. It's a fucking tough space. It isn't what it was 10 years ago. Let's just be fair about that. To be clear, the audience should know that Sarah asked Emma if she was willing to buy a favorite daughter before you started. Emma. Emma. Venmo me. She said, she said no. Talk to Sheehan. They seem to be buying things right now. Oh, my God. No, thank you, Sheehan. Would that be out of your ethics?

It's not even in the conversation. Guys, this would be a problem. Everline, I'm really disappointed in Everland. It's really sad. Oh, shots fired. Why? take the money. No. Oh, I love this. Go on. Have to you to.

Go. Do not take that money. You would not take that money. But you don't know what the circumstances of those founders are. Who knows? I know. I wouldn't take that money. I would not take anybody doing that kind of fast session.

No. It's making the world a worst place. I could not participate in that. Wow. We're going to have a problem. I was just going to say. She was a fine. I'm like, I have a meeting with the C.

Sheen. We're our favorite daughter. We were split it all. And there is the split. And that was the split. the last time they ever. They were seen together. She and split the sisters.

I absolutely love it. Eris, what are you aspiring to? I just really aspire to, like, balancing it all. I'm really, really in my, like, mom and wife era, and I really love the opportunity. Erin must a compost. That's what she wants to do. Yeah, I want to, like, just make sourdough bread from scratch. I think success, like, real, real success is having a really strong home life and a really strong

professional life and them working well together. I want to put my daughter to bed at night. I want to give her a bath and I want to make my husband dinner and meet his friends and go on work trips with him and him come to events for me and us be proud of each other. And I want, like, I want to have the full scope. I don't want to have a life that is so skewed in one area that everything else suffers. I really don't. No, I love that. Aaron's like, I want to be a trad wife. She loves it. But that's almost, but that's not also what she's saying because you're saying that you actually want a big professional life, but you place an enormous amount of value on your family.

I think that I would mirror that exactly. I'm just interested how you're doing that and what it actually looks like right now. Like, are you figuring that out? What it really looks like is that I'm really honest with the people that I work with, that that's a huge priority to me. And I don't want to feel embarrassed to say, guys, I'm not going to get on that call because I want to, it's bath time.

Or worse than that, or better than that, depending on how you look at it, if I get a text for a work or a call at 8 o'clock at night and I'm in bed with my husband and we're watching Love Island, then I'm going to say to them, guys, I'm in bed with my husband watching Love Island and we can do this tomorrow morning at 9 a.m. Because that's important to me. I want to laugh with my husband and eat frozen yogurt in bed and watch TV together and talk about bad reality shows. And that's how I connect. And are you in the position right now with everything that you have going on and all the ambition and all the opportunity that everything is bringing you that you can say no to that call at E o'clock in bed.

At 43, she can finally, after all these years. Like, it's important, I think, for the audience to know that your life has never been like that. So because of your grit and conviction and hard work, you are now finally, because I just don't want people to think that that, because that is not the mindset you should have. Because 10 years ago, you perhaps say that wasn't your choice. Yeah, I mean, I would have loved to have had that, of course, but no, I couldn't do that. I mean, I remember when I was writing pilots in my, 30s and I would be writing all day back and forth, back and forth. Then I'd be like, okay,

I'm going to go to a yoga class. You know, I'm going to like try to protect my piece. And I remember one specific time, I like, roll out my yoga mat. And I got a call that was like, the studio needs the new pages. And I was like, okay, I'll do it in the morning. And they were like, roll up your little thing and get back in the car and go home. You're going to do it tonight. And I was like, oh, right, I work for you. You don't work for me. Like I'm on your time, your time frame on my own. And so, yeah, it is a privilege to be able to have a balance. But I also think that we live in a culture where it's like you brag about how little sleep you get and how, you know, you're at the office till midnight. And I just don't want to be.

I get deeply unfashionable now. Like I don't see that that is. Our writer's room runs from 10 to 3. And that's something that actually Jenny Connor taught me, which I'm really grateful for because she said, you do not need to have a writer's room that goes longer than 10 to 3. Nothing is getting solved at 6 o'clock a night where everyone's sick of being with each other and they want to be at home. And so having a happy work environment where you were respect each other's time and you put in like a condensed amount of time where you're really focused. No one's leaving for the doctor's appointments. No one's going and taking phone calls. No one's like checking Instagram because you're locked in from the short period of time.

Yeah. And so I'm into being productive in spurts of time, but like letting yourself have a life. That's how that Bill Ackman school, you know, the Alpha School. Have you heard about that? Yes, I have. That is their sort of philosophy is you go super hard for three hours, three hours of undivided, locked in attention, and then you're off. I also think as female founders and executives and leaders and all of the rest of it, you have to create the conditions that you want to, like, grow, right?

It's like, it's down to you to say, this rider's room is 10 till 3, because I want to create the conditions not just for myself, but for every other rider to be able to leave if they're a parent and go and do bath and bedtime. Yeah. And I think that the minute you do that, you allow those conditions to permanate through the company, through the rider's room, through whatever it is that you're doing. But not everybody can live like that, you guys.

No, of course not. Yeah, but it is a balance. There is a point at which that becomes your reality, but it's also a choice, right? Because it's like I could be in my office every day till 10 o'clock. Like, it's just a choice. Yeah. But it's also, it's, you work for yourself.

You work for yourself so you can create that. You sacrifice a lot to be able to have these choices. I wasn't with my daughter. on her second birthday. I had to be in New York for the show. I didn't have a choice. Nobody cared that it's my daughter's birthday. That's where I have to be. And that's the sacrifice I make so that I can also say I want to

be a bath time. There are a lot of things that I have to miss. There's a lot of times that she's crying and I'm walking out the door because I have to start a meeting. But that's a really important part and I think that's the bit to share because that you make choices, but it doesn't mean that every choice you make fits and suits your agenda.

I leave the office every fucking day at five. But still, there are times, when I don't get to do what it is that I want to do. Yeah, but were you leaving the office at five, ten years ago? No. Are you fucking crazy? You were there probably till midnight. So, like, no.

Yeah. No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So it's a given take. It's like we have these all-consuming careers. We have, we sacrifice a lot to do that. And then in return, we're able to set some parameters so that we can live peacefully. And that's what you aspire to.

Yes. You're living your dream. Like, you are now living your dream a lot. I mean, she was working at free people as a shopkeeper right before you. you got the Ryan Murphy job at 28 years old. Like it's not, she was literally working at the Brantwood Free People where all of her friends and peers would come in at 28 years old. So I just think people look at us,

and I just don't think they see the full picture of how it's been. Are you leaving the life that you always wanted to, the pair of you? I definitely am. I didn't see myself being 45, two kids. A, I really just didn't ever think I'd be successful. I think like when you're an actress and a model, putting yourself in a place to just be treated like such shit, you know what I mean? The rejection is, should be studied, like what it does to you. What it does to your mental state, what it does to your self-esteem, what it does to all of it should be studied. It's so toxic. And I think it's, and by the way, no one forced me to do it. Let's be clear. This isn't like, poor me. I chose, nobody asked me to do it. You know, and in fact, they were like, we actually don't want you to do it. We have no work for you. But I think I never imagine that we would have the career, the career that we have. I did not.

I've never been the most spiritual, but I am now. I thank the universe every day for things that I don't have yet. And I've been doing that for two years. And it's like, I'll be driving or I'll wake up or, and I'll thank the universe for, and I'll be specific as to what you were just saying, really specific. And it's amazing how the universe rewards that, you know, close mouths don't get fed. So I just, I ask for things that I don't even think are possible. Oh, I love that.

All right. On that note, I'm going to move to some rapid fire. Oh, great. Okay. All right. In one word, what is your sister's biggest strength? Oh, her work ethic. Sarah?

Her writing. Wait, professionally, right? Professional. Yeah. Well, she's a fantastic mom and aunt. So if we're going to, like, go that, like, truly. I think Josie, my, you know, Josie, I think Josie's like, I think I want Erin to be my mom

and that's okay I'm happy with that she's very maternal she's very maternal what is your most recent hot take oh jeez oh god all of Sarah's takes are hot I don't I don't know

is that is it appropriate yes it's a recent hot take oh god what I see so many every day of my life is a hot tank literally

I said recently mentioned wear Birkenstocks that was a real hot take oh oh god does Yens were at Birkenstock No, Jens doesn't have the feat for a Birkenstock.

I'm not like, you know, he's not a Birkenstock and Croc, man. He's like a Euro guy, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a loafer. Sensible. Guys, if you want to know the hot takes, listen to our podcast. Listen, there you go. Plug it in.

Ditch Emma's podcast. She's got enough listeners. She ditch that thing. Move on over. Yeah, move on over. Yeah, Sarah talks about. Emma's doing great. All right.

We need you. What is a brand you wish you'd invested in, but you missed? Okay. I know mine, I think. Oh, there's a new water company called Lunin that I wish we'd invested. We still can. And also Chamberl and Coffee. We passed on.

Oh, Anna, I just had her on. And I think that I wish it was because they're opening a lot of stores. Yes, it's doing well. I met the shop my founders early. Ah. I met the Alexa von Toba brought them introduced us. And the valuation was already so out of this world, but I still wish. It would have been great to just be in their world.

it's so directly connected to what we do. We utilize Shop My at Favorite Daughter. Yeah. So much. So much. And I spoke to them so early. And I just sort of felt like I always try as an investor to not get enticed by sexy cap tables. And by I try for so long.

It was like, well, let's just write a check even though the valuation is totally outside of our mandate. So you're really bad at Rapid Fire. Oh, sorry. No, no, no. I'm really bad at Rapid Fire too. I don't know. I just. You should have been in Shop Mine.

I know. And I could have been. and I wish I was. I wish we were. Can you tell us anything about season three if nobody wants this? Everyone dies. I'm in it.

I love that you're in it. That's kind of my big. Yeah, that's my big. No, and she's really good. You should act more. Yeah, she is really good. I play like a crazy girl, Mim Nicole.

So she's not really acting. Yeah. She's playing herself. Is there a book that changed your life? Ooh. I don't know that this one changed my life, but there's a book called Write It Down, Make It Happen. And it taught me how valuable and powerful pen to paper is.

Your notes app is fine, but it is not doing what pen to paper does and that you can truly create the life you want hand to paper. I have literally with specificity, I have been the architect of where I am now. I never thought it was possible. I didn't think it would actually come true. But looking back at some of the old journals and the things that I prayed for and the things that I was too afraid to write because they seemed too far-fetched I wrote.

But I would say that book taught me how to manifest. I love that. As a writer, I would say there's a lot of books that you have your answer. Thank you. I'm sorry. Jesus.

As a writer, there's a lot of books that have changed my life because they're like, it's storytelling, you know? So the fountain head for sure changed my life because I was like, holy shit. It was so long. It was so long. a story like this, all like Ken Follett's,

Ken Follett books, like, got me so wrapped up in, like, historical fiction, which made me, like, want to be a writer. Honestly, this is so silly about memoirs of a gay show. And I was, like, in, like, 10th grade. I was like, wait, I love this story. Like, all of these stories made me, like, the prophet. These are books that just made me go, like,

could I ever make somebody feel something like this? Like, could I ever tell a story this way? The prophet, Cahill Gobran, the Prophet? Yeah. Now, obviously, my. writing is nothing like that. But it was still... No, but that's so interesting

that that's informed the fact that you wanted to be a storyteller. Very much. Because you're... Because he was giving you life... He is giving you life lessons in the form of a story.

So it's like very subtle the way that you absorb it. But also in such a poetic way that that's like really interesting. Exactly. We're so different. I'm like, have you read Ray Dalio's book? Oh my God.

It's so different. It's one of my favorite birds. It's one of my favorite words. Erin's literally like, who's really like, who's Ray Dalio. No, but I love that. By the way, between Ray Dalio and to Kehill Gabon,

You get me. There you go. I'm like the little bridge. There you go. Okay, you know what? We'll have lunch too. Fucking out. You're not invited now.

You're absolutely up. I love a pair of you. Thank you beyond. Thanks for having us. You too are just fabulous. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating

and share an episode you loved with a friend who will be so grateful. Aspire with Em Agreed is presented by Odyssey. your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK. Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shorts. Angela Paluso is our Booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Phil Sweetek and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my team's at the lead company and WME.

Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mekyll, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E, that's AspI-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed. me.