Aspire with Emma Grede - Nara Smith’s Secret Ingredient For Building a Multimillion-Dollar Business

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

Everyone has an opinion about Nara Smith. Very few people have asked her how the business works. At 24, with four kids under six and one of the most recognizable formats on the internet, Nara is running a company she plans to keep growing for the next 50 years.Emma and Nara get into the moment a viral format turned into income, and why she left the modeling agency that had represented her since she was 14. Nara explains how she uses brand partnerships to test what her audience will buy before launching her own consumer goods brand, and why she still films and edits every video herself. They also talk about the money rules her dad drilled into her and what it takes to stop letting the comment section decide who you are.In this episode, you’ll learn:How Nara turned a recognizable content format into a multimillion-dollar businessWhy knowing when to lean into what’s working can be more powerful than starting with a perfect strategyHow she and Lucky approach money, shared wealth, and maintaining their own individual businessesWhat the internet gets wrong about the “tradwife” version of Nara SmithHow she stops other people’s assumptions from becoming her identityHow Nara is planning to build an empire that lasts well beyond social media

You probably know Nara Smith from TikTok, the beautiful dresses, the soothing voice, and those completely insane recipes that she makes from scratch. But what you may not know is that Nara is 24 years old, has four children under five, and according to Forbes, made an estimated $7.5 million last year. And let me tell you, she knows exactly what she's doing. Everybody seems to have an opinion about Nara and what she represents. I wanted to get past all of that and understand the woman who is actually building the business. We talk about the label the internet gave her what it really takes to launch and run a multi-million dollar creator business and how she's thinking about a career that could last another 50 years.

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Use our links so they know that we sent you. Nara Smith, welcome to Aspire. Thanks for having me. I am so happy to have you today. This is no idea. It is so fun. I've been listening to the podcast for a while. You have?

Oh, yeah. Oh, that makes me so happy. Like all kinds of episodes. Like, I think it was, did you guys have the Poppy founder on? Oh, yes. And then the divorce attorney just barely. Oh, yes. You got something you want to let us know, babe.

I'm just intrigued. I love knowledge in any way or form. Well, you know what we're about to get into today. You know what you know what to expect. I don't want any surprises. I don't want your team to come back to me. No, they're going to be like, um, flag that question. Flag that question. I have nothing as such for you. But I do actually want to talk to you. And I've wanted to speak to you for the longest time because I think you're one of the people in the culture right now that everyone thinks that they know something about. Everyone has an opinion on you. And what's really interesting is that I wanted to have you on Aspire because I want to

understand what people don't actually know about you. That at the end of the day, you are an incredibly successful businesswoman. And I wonder if you actually feel that way about yourself. I never did. So starting out, I didn't. And still sometimes when people say it, I'm like, oh, you're right. But I know what I'm doing. I know how I'm positioning things.

I know what I'm investing in. I know what I spend my time on doing. So, yeah, I'm running a full-on business. And the older I get, because I'm also only 24. That is crazy. I know. As I turn 44, the fact that you're only 24 is like insane. But I love sitting down with people that have done this and are doing it successfully

and just learning it all. But like as time goes on, the more I feel comfortable using that term and doing all of that. So yeah, I am a businesswoman. There you go. She said it. She said it absolutely. There you go. Look, when I look at you as very clearly a successful businesswoman, a marketeer, something that absolutely fascinates me is the distinction that you have. You've created such a persona around yourself, the voice and the clothes and the food and the pacing, the way you do things. I wonder how consciously you've built that version of Narasme. In the beginning, it was very unintentional. The voice came from my kids sleeping next to me and me having to get this video up. I spoke quietly. It resonated with people. I also love ASMR. So it kind of was that after a while. I'm like, oh, this is actually very soothing. And that's what people recognize me for. The clothing, I have a fashion

background. I love dressing up. I've been a model for 10 years now. It just is naturally always there. And then during the pandemic, I had nowhere to wear my clothes to. And then after it felt weird and everyone was adjusting. So I just wore them at home and then started filming in them. And then with the recipes, I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and developed really severe eczema to where I had to look at food completely different. Also, not being American, food in America is a little wonky sometimes. So I started making... Say that again, babe. But I feel like anyone who knows you, who follows you, like, we understand your story. We know exactly where you come from and why you did what you did. I wonder, to me, because there's an element of what you do, which is, there's so much character in it.

there's so much performance. It's almost like performance art. And a part of me kind of wants to ask you, like, how much of it are you in on? Like, how much of it do you consciously understand that the audience is actually responding to something that you're getting so much attention and that you're building a business in this way and therefore you're purposeful with how you're coming across? In the beginning, I wasn't because it all kind of came together naturally and I didn't really think much of it. I just posted what I posted and didn't think much of it. And then the more backlash and positive feedback I got, the more I kind of realized and understood what was happening and what was working and what wasn't working. And obviously, if something works, you tap into it

and keep doing it. So that's kind of how I figured that out. But it wasn't born out of me sitting down and strategizing on what to do. It was kind of born out of need, essentially. Yeah. And then at some point, you go, this is working. I'm going to lean into it. Absolutely. I love that. And I feel like that's how so many true, honest, authentic businesses are built. You start doing something. You test and you iterate and you learn and you lean into what works. And so I don't think that it's any different when you're an incredibly successful creator and makes total sense. What's the biggest thing you think the internet gets wrong about Nara Smith? You know it. I love how you're skating around to ask me straight up. Say it then. I would never say, I was actually hoping that you wouldn't say

that because I think there was so interesting. We all know the label that's been attributed to you. Yeah. Trad wife. Yeah. It's really funny because I have never thought about you in that way. I've never either, which is why I was silent about it for so long because I thought it was just this random thing that popped up. Because I don't think that. I'm a working mom. I work very long hours.

So does lucky. We juggle the kids. So we figure it out. So to me, I never saw myself as that. And I corrected that and said that and showed that. But it got misconstrued. So I don't really necessarily, I don't really care whether people, whatever they do with that information,

I've been very clear on what I am and what I like doing, and you can take that as you will. Do you think that there was a point in time, though, where that label was actually a good thing, where it was additive? Because I feel like Trad Weiss had such a moment, and you being like the queen on the top of the pile of everything, maybe wasn't that. Yes and yes and no, because I think sometimes that we get labeled as things, and it's not always entirely negative. I never really sat with it that long. I kind of just let it brush off.

I never addressed it. I went about my life, got on the next flight out to make some money and didn't really think much of it. And then here we are talking about it now because maybe it is important for me to have the conversation that we as women can do anything we want to. And we should stop putting women in boxes that they don't belong in. Like we're so multifaceted. So if me saying that will help the conversation, great. Yeah, I mean, say it a little louder for the people in the back because that's what this is about at the end of the day. So when did it move from you from being?

like this hobby and the idea of like you cook into, this is a format and this is somewhere that I can make money. I think after a few videos blew up that were from scratch cooking, I kind of leaned into the from scratch angle a little bit more. And then my content kind of evolved into what it is now. There wasn't a distinctive time that I remember being like, oh, this is a business. It was more so it's working. Let me repeat it and keep going. Keep going. And then I've been signed to a modeling agency. Well, I'm not anymore. But I was signed to a modeling agency. since I was 14 to where I've always had agents in whatever capacity. So then when the social took off, they kind of took that over.

And now, obviously, the businesses has grown so much to where I left the agency just because the model didn't suit my career and where I wanted to go. So I took on management agents, have other partners. And now we're in a totally different spot. It's a whole new world. Was that a good decision for you? Absolutely. I was nervous.

I'm very indecisive when it comes to stuff. But I listened to my gut and figure out what is the best for my business. and sure, was it hard leaving my agents that I've had such a close relationship to, yes, but from a business perspective, it made no sense staying. So now I'm with a new team and it's been amazing. Yeah, there's a necessary evolution there is. Because I think what a model agent does is nothing to do with actually Nara Smith, right? You become a face for whatever brand somebody wants to pay you to be a face for.

Now you're anchoring off something. Yeah, it's a very, very different thing. And also, hopefully, they're not just booking you because you've got partnerships, and you've got big agreements going on, you're creating yourself, and of course you've got this book, which I am dying to talk to you about. But before we get into that,

I think that what's so interesting about you is that you've created something that is so instantly recognizable. What do you actually think with the benefit of hindsight? Like, what made it work? I think it was a combination out of the hook of the video, which was my kids are craving, my husband's craving. I'm home alone, so I'm making a girl dinner, and not being a girl dinner or being elaborate,

but that's just what I prefer. And that was actually the reality. So it didn't feel like I was being inauthentic to myself or to what was going on. And then the outfit, the crazier the outfit, the better people have started having conversation about it. And I had fun expressing myself in that way. And then the recipe, obviously.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because what you created was like this unbelievable visual language. And then you created this thing that we didn't even actually need to be watching it. because if we were just hearing you, like that pace, your point of view, the way you speak. Like the whole thing was like hypnotic in a way, right?

Like it was, I mean, it's so interesting. But even like to go back now, I'm assuming that you understood that this thing plus this thing plus this thing, the voice plus the outfit plus the pacing, like it all came together. Yes. And you understood that actually you were creating more than just an individual video. It was like you were creating a content format. Yeah, I was creating a world, I guess. love the idea of world building and marketing and kind of being this person that has all these

different avenues that she's in, but she's essentially created this little world that people want to be a part of or that just want to, people just want to watch essentially. So that's kind of what my content became. So, Nara, if social media disappeared tomorrow, what would still exist because of everything that you've built? I think people really want extreme things. I think it's kind of transitioned from people being fascinated by content. Their attention span has got shorter and shorter and you really need to capture their attention quick and with something insane for them to stick around. But I also think we're transitioning more into long-form content now, which is really fun.

I love watching YouTube videos and I'm excited that we're kind of transitioning back to that a little bit. Me too. It's funny that you say that, like the extremity of it all because I feel so much, like my son is obsessed with Mr. Beast. and, you know, in the same way that he will like binge Mr. Beast content, I could binge your content. You know, because to me it's like, you know, he's like going out and, you know, making, I don't know, a hundred kids that are blind see again. And you're like creating something ridiculous from scratch and I'm like, same same. Let's make some bubble gum in a crazy outfit.

You're like, the girls, Mr. Beast. That's exactly what we want as extreme. Well, as extreme. So have you ever just made a video because you knew it would make the internet lose its mind? Probably the bubble gum video. Yeah. Sure. My kids eat bubble gum.

I eat bubble gum, but making it from scratch, I was sitting down with Lucky and his sister actually, and she's obsessed with bubble gum. And then we had this conversation and I was like, I should make it from scratch. People would probably love it. And they did. So you knew they were going to go wild. You were like how? I never quite know whether it's going to go viral or not, but I was pretty confident that people would at least be interested in it. Yeah.

Yeah. So give me an idea of what a day in Nara Smith's life, like you. like actually looks like. Every day is different. So our five-year-old just started school. So I'm up early making school lunch, getting her out the door. Oh, my God. You have four kids under five?

Yeah. My oldest is five, then four, then two and 11 months. Oh, yeah. So it's crazy. It's crazy. Like, I will just say, like, that is unfathomable for me. It's a madhouse. It's a madhouse.

Yeah, so we get her out the door. What were you doing for the free year? Clearly you. You missed a year, Nara. Crazy. But then also when I'm 40, they'll be out the house. So pick your battles. There's that.

Pick your battles. Well, that is one actually. And I want to go back to that because something that I speak about so much is when you decide to have children. And what an important part and what an important decision that is for you. And I've spoken so much about waiting until I was like in my early 30, setting my career, having something that I felt like I can go back to this. But you astute that. also like the conventional wisdom of that. How purposeful were those decisions? I was 19 when I had my first and I had my last a year ago. So I was 23, just turned 23. She was born on my birthday.

But it was a combination of things. I wanted kids younger. I didn't know how young, right? But I knew I didn't want to be an old mom. My dad said he had us at 45. So he was like, I wish I would have had you earlier because my energy and like he had a transparent conversation with us about it. And I saw that and heard him. And then when I met Lucky, he was on the same page about having kids early as well. So it kind of just all slotted into place. And I couldn't be more grateful because I don't think kids hold you back. You just have to plan more and schedule more and outsource help if you need to. But at the end of the day, to me, it doesn't make a major difference in my career or what I'm doing. And if anything, it just inspires them to work hard. Sure. Is it a financial situation? Yes.

So obviously that was something I was a little too young to grasp. Fair. Fair. I didn't quite think about that part. But now that I'm a little older, I'm realizing it, and I'm very grateful to be able to work as much as I do and provide for them. And it was the best decision. Do you feel like you were very purposeful in saying,

okay, I'm going to have all of my children now? Because I get it. At 19, you have a kid. But then to go again and again and again, you were like, okay, we're building our family at this stage in our life. While my career is taking. And again, for so many women, that's a big decision. That's something like, wait a minute, am I going to have to sacrifice? What are the tradeoffs going to be if I make this decision?

And so I want to understand more about that internal conversation because I do think that so many women feel like they have to put it off. And there's so much in our culture that says, okay, that's the right thing to do. But again, that's not what's worked for you and it's not what works for everybody. First off, I want to say being a mom and choosing to have kids is such an individual decision. So I think everyone needs to figure out what they're comfortable with. But when we had, we wanted six kids when we were dating. Then we had Rumble, our first. And I didn't really think much of it. I kind of was a stay-at-home mom. Lucky was working. It was during the pandemic. I just moved here so I couldn't work because of my visa. So I was like, I'll be home because I can't do anything

anyways. Then we had Slim our second. And I was itching to get back to work. I was like, I want to just do things. It's kind of, it's suffocating, just being at home all day and not feeling like I'm my own person. Oh, I so can relate to that. After the second kid, that's exactly. I've been pregnant my whole life. That's what it feels like pregnant, nursing, toddlers, babies. It just felt very overwhelming. So then I was like, I think I'm actually done after having two kids. This feels like a lot. And then lucky, he really wanted a third. And I had two siblings. So I was like, you know what? I really like the number of three. So let's have three. And then our fourth baby was a surprised she was not supposed to be here, but now she's the most precious thing and I couldn't

imagine my life without her. But during my pregnancy with our third, my career and the whole TikTok thing took off and I was traveling and really stressed about being, kind of having downtime postpartum and I ended up not really having downtime. I was back shooting two weeks after birth. Like, I'm just such a workaholic that it really, it took a lot of trial and error and a lot of guilt on my behalf being like, I need to. figure out my schedule better or when whimsy got sick, we actually need help. There's no way we can juggle careers traveling a sick kid, all of that without any help. So we had my mom come out, my dad's coming out, we hired a nanny. So it's all just been like figuring out what we're

comfortable with and also letting go of that guilt. Yeah. And I do think the letting go of the guilt part is huge. I mean, listen, you touched on your daughter being sick and that's such an unbelievable or stress for any parents. And really my heart goes out to you and your family. And I'm so happy to know that things are going in the right direction. And so I send you all my love and everything. And I think there's so many parents when we heard that, like our heart broke for you.

No, it's so devastating. It must be so, it must be so devastating. And it adds another layer of complexity to you being a working mom, a working young family, having four tiny little kids under the age of five. So talk to me about what that actually looks like for you, Nara. because to me, for so many young women, that's the bit no one can get their head around. Like, what have you had to say

to create the right balance in your life, to allow you to have this, like, enormous career that you're having, and yet be there and be present for your kids? There is no balance. You try your best every day. You wake up, you try your best, and you kind of have to get good at prioritizing things and blocking times.

I know that I'll have a certain time a week where I'll go get my nails done with my daughter or I'll go play football with my son or whatever it may be having quality time, but also knowing I'm not going to be there all day, every day. And my kids have gotten really good at understanding that and kind of knowing when I'm working, when I'm not. And also really enjoying seeing me work and film and my daughter is like really intrigued by it. So I think just creating moments where you're present with your kids,

but then also give yourself to your business and your work. That means very long hours at night. I'm up very, very late, up very early. I call my agents at 1 a.m. Lucky then. No, truly. I'm like, hey, so what are we doing here? What press are we doing there? Have we gotten back to this person? Like, I'm really on top of it. But that's kind of just how I like it. And I'm really excited to be building this business. One thing I've learned from being around founders is that the unglomerous parts of building something are usually the parts you can't afford to ignore. Everyone wants to talk about the idea, the brand, the launch, but the structure underneath the business matters just as much. That is where LegalZoom comes in. If you're starting a business, they can help you set it up correctly from the beginning, so you're not trying to unwind avoidable issues later.

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Services. Legal Zoom is not a law firm and does not provide legal advice. Hi, everyone. This is Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. And we want to tell you about Pivot, our twice weekly podcast. That's right, Kara. What a thrill. It's a chance for us to break down all the big things happening in tech, business and politics. Yes, and I keep you in check so people and make it through each episode, whether it's digging into constant changes in the world of AI and social media or trying to keep up whatever the fuck Elon is doing, we're here to give you our take on all of that. Every Tuesday and Friday morning, we drop a new episode about some of the major stories of

the moment. And Scott is a prediction machine gazing into his crystal ball to tell you about where it's all heading. That's right. So if that sounds like a good time for you, especially Mr. That's Right, you can follow us on your favorite podcast app to get new episodes every week. What's the internal conversation for you when, like, those moments come up where there's a big opportunity, and yet you've got the kids. Like, how have you managed to kind of park the guilt? Because I hear you say that it exists there.

Like, it's absolutely present. And I think every working mother knows that it exists. But what's the conversation, the internal conversation for you? I usually always weigh the opportunity. I say, okay, is this opportunity going to move the needle for me and my business? and if it's yes, okay, obviously we should figure out how to do it and work around those parameters. If it isn't going to move the needle and it's just a, it's good to do and the money either isn't right or the time commitment is too much or whatever the factors may be, then I say I actually would prefer not doing this because I prefer spending time with my kids. So it really depends on how is this going to impact my business? And if it positively does, my kids are going to understand. Yeah, I think that that's such a great conversation and a great set of parameters for you to have for yourself. Because I always

talk about it in this idea of like, I have a very clear set of principles, like a way that I live my life, a set of things that I want to do. And I have a vision for the way I want to be a parent and for what I want to do in business. And sometimes something has to give. Like you can't have everything all at once, but more to the point, it's like if you're doing things in alignment with how you set out to do them, you can't be sad about it when it's working out. And I do think for so many of us that those opportunities come and we want to take the opportunity, but we feel an obligation somewhere else. And it's like, well, actually, if you've set this out and you've worked so hard to get this thing, then you should go for the thing. You should do what it is that you wanted to do.

That's driving you forward. I also always imagine myself having a conversation with my daughter when I'm older and being like, hey, I had this opportunity and I passed on it, even though it would have been a really good opportunity for my business and her looking at me. And I couldn't imagine. imagine her saying, mom, I would have not wanted you to do something that would have helped your business just to be home with me for an extra day. A million percent. I'm still glad we went to get ice cream on a Saturday. And that's what I remember.

Not the time that you did something to further your career and ultimately help the family out. Absolutely. And nor do you want your kids having the burden of feeling like they stopped you from doing things, right? I never want them to feel like that was something that I am projecting onto the, them. I did this for you. And if I can, I'll bring them with me. Especially when they were younger, I would bring the babies on set. I would travel with my toddlers. If we were going to Europe, the whole family would come. I would have my parents watch them. Like, I would find workarounds

to where I wouldn't be gone for a long period of time without seeing them. And that's still kind of how I structure my trips. Like, I know I'm going to Milan later this month, but I also know Fonnie's birthday is coming up. So even though I don't want to fly to Europe and back and back again, You got to do it, girl. I'm going to do it to see my kids and to be there and plant. Like, I just pick and choose and make sure that the people I work with understand that as well. That's really important to me. That's a really important part of things.

And as you're building something, again, setting those parameters early that everybody understands your set of priorities and how they have to build around you. I mean, that's an enormous privilege. But that is what you're building. And that's the beauty of building your own business as a young woman and as a working mother. So let me get back to the business of Nara Smith. I want to understand how does it all come together? Like when you got these four children under five, I still can't get through that.

I'm dying for you. I don't understand how that works. A lot of sleepless nights. It's a lot of sleepless nights. But talk to me about what it actually looks like. Like what is the schedule? What is the calendar? What does production look like?

What's the realities of your team? Give me like, paint the picture. I think we're in a phase in my business where I'm growing and branching out and kind of transitioning from solely creating content to also having all these other things that I want to work on. So it's really shifted and we're kind of getting in the groove of figuring out what we're doing.

So I'm taking a lot of meetings and like my days look so different now than they used to. But I usually sit down with Lucky. I'm like, what are you craving? What are you wanting me to make? Is there anything specific that you've been thinking about? So you really have those conversations. Yeah.

And he's like, I want the cinnamon knots from McDonald's. They discontinued however many years ago. I'm like, okay, let me get to work. Make it a little simpler, will you? Have less desire. So I ask him, I ask the kids, but then I also sometimes look online or I see what other people like the dot cake thing was a super viral thing. It hit my feed a little later than I would have wanted, but I'm like, okay, great,

let's make a dot cake from scratch, which took four hours, by the way. A long time. Well, just for the sprinkles. Oh, yeah, because I had to pipe each and every single thing. I remember. Yeah. But anyways, so that is kind of how I figure out the idea. And then the styling, I kind of always have outfits on hand, which is weird. I don't know how that happens, but it just kind of comes together. So there's no stylist. No, it's me. I have a stylist for events and like red carpet and that type of stuff for my content. It's just me kind of being lucky enough to always have something on hand in brand sending me stuff or me purchasing things. It's just me filming the content and editing and doing the whole thing. So it's me, my tripod that I see. set up. I film during the day or at night, depending on what the video is. And then I just film it on my iPhone, on a tripod, get my angles. It's like hard because my island, I have to like walk around,

do the whole thing. It usually is a seven to eight hours standing day in the kitchen. At this many followers, you have no one there just putting the light on, plugging it in, doing the anger. I'm so specific. I'm specific, but I can't be bothered. Like, I don't want to bend down and do the plug. But it's gone to me. Really? Yeah. No.

I love Chris. Really? Are you deeply serious? If I came to your house, there's no girl there. There's no social media assistant who's going to be like, listen, I've got all the ingredients out. I've set it out, kind of how you like it. I've put the lights on.

No. Oh. It's me. Wow, you are. I come up with the recipe, the outfit. Then I do my makeup and hair. Then I go to the kitchen, set up my cutting board, set up my tripod. So I have that.

I set up my phone, film myself, run around, get it. all the angles. And then when I'm done, which is usually seven to eight hours, my feet are hurting at that point. I've been standing all day. Then I make dinner. Then I get the kids to bed. And then I sit down, edit, and then I do the voiceover after that. So that's kind of what it is on top of meetings and flights to LA, fashion week, brand meetings, brand partnerships meetings, like all the other stuff. So it's really hard to juggle right now. So I'm trying to figure out a better structure with Yeah, I can help you with that. Like, let's just hire some people.

No, no, no. Well, let's talk about that. Let's just hire someone. She's like, don't do that. So the only place that there's a team is really manager-agent publicist. It's like the team that are doing the deals, facilitating the contracts, helping you actually with structure. But with content, I don't want anyone telling me what to do. I don't want anyone editing.

I don't want any input. That's my thing. That's my lane. You stay out of it. And I understand you keeping that because that's like, that's the golden goose, right? It's the thing that you understand. the most, it's what created you. But as you move into this kind of next phase of Nara Smith, where your popularity is beyond that of a real, you're now a figure in contemporary,

popular culture, and you're moving into other areas with the book, the book, which I absolutely love. But also, you know, you sent me this like absolutely delicious, like olive oil before. Oh, I did. My ACC oil. Absolutely, which is heaven. But you're moving into a new phase, right? So beyond social media, beyond that of a content creator, there's equity, ownership, there's publishing, there's probably a ton of opportunities, and there is the brand of Nara Smith. And so when you take a step back and you say, okay, I've conceived of this character and this persona and it's working, and I have all this inbound opportunity. What does that look like? You know, when you take a step back and you go 10 years out, this is

what I want this to be. This is what I want to have taken from all of the opportunity that's incoming. One thing I always tell my team and have always told them ever since, I don't know, I've been young as I want longevity. I want to build and evolve and do things that I love and feel like they're in my world, but I'm never afraid to branch out or try something new or just build a career that will stand the test of time essentially. So like I always angle things in a way where it would make sense in my world. Like I had a CETA-Fel partnership because of my eczema, so it made sense.

I did the garlic oil with ACC, and I was like, I don't want you guys to pay me and just cash. I want equity in the company. So we kept going back and forth. I do specific collaborations with brands like my Reformation collection. I loved, by the way.

It went so well. We did a million dollars in sales. For you. It was crazy. But that I did specifically to test whether my audience will support a product. like that. Yeah, like a non-food-related product. It's a totally different world. When I do different partnerships, I also test whether my audience resonates with it or not so that when I

build my own brand, I have data to take and be really strategic in what I build. So you want your own stuff? I do. I'm working on consumer goods. Little razzle-dazzle. We love a little razzle-dazzle. That's okay. You can come back a second time. Yes. You're going to be my first phone call when I can speak about it. I'm going to be a little bit. I need some advice, Emma, please help me. Absolutely. And you know I will be there because I'm there for the girls. No, I know.

I'm like, here's every mistake I made. So how long do you have for this Zoom? Let me get on. I'm like, I've got time for you. If you want to know all my mistakes, it will take a long time too. You know what, but that's how we learn. We will never learn if we're perfect and don't do it. One thing I really try to do is I'm such a perfectionist.

So I was always scared, oh, I don't want to do this or I don't want to post this in case it doesn't go well, but I'm learning. Just do it to the best of your abilities. put it out and whatever goes wrong will go wrong and you will learn from it and not repeat it and get better and better and better. I couldn't agree more. I mean, I talk about this in my book all the time. It's like you have to start before you're ready. Yes. And perfectionism, it's like something that like sits in so many women. And as a result, we end up not doing things that we are perfectly qualified to do that a man would just be like, you know what, I'm 60% there. Let's just

have a go. And so I'm happy that that's something that you are embracing at this point in your career because I think that's going to allow you to experiment, to figure things out, to get stuff wrong, to make mistakes. And also that element of being able to take a little bit of risk. Is there anything in you? And again, you sound like you're testing and you're learning. Yeah. Are you willing to take risks with what you've built? Absolutely. I think if I don't take risks, I'll be like just in this little bubble and I'll never expand past that. And I don't want to just be in a little bubble. I want to be global, worldwide and still be around in 30, 40, 50, 60 years. Oh, you do? Yes, absolutely.

Like a little Martha Stewart? Absolutely. Martha. Don't we die? No, she's... We all want to be Martha. Iconic. I gone.

But do you see yourself... Listen, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You see yourself as Martha Stewart, but is that the type of career that interests you? She has built her brand. She has really monetized off of everything that she's good at. And she is stuck around and she's evolving with the times and always doing fun things. Like, she never takes herself too serious. And that's the aspect of her business and career that I really.

really admire. She has been around and she's still around and she's better than ever. Better than ever. I mean, better than ever, more relevant than ever, which is like such an amazing, amazing thing. And that's a crazy thing to do, staying relevant. It's really hard in today's day and age. So she is just phenomenal. The queen. We all, we all salute and bow down to Martha. Let's talk about this cookbook because I am, I mean, listen, first of all, I'm such a cookbook freak. What's the idea behind doing this? Because the, and I'm going to be really honest, the idea, of me trying to emulate one of your recipes when I get home from work, like I'd rather jump off the, you know, off the building. So tell me. You and me both after a long day. You and me both.

Oh, my getting an hour that I can do. Honestly, the book wasn't necessarily to prove myself. It was more so people kept asking for recipes and a cookbook and it kept getting asked and asked. And then I started putting recipes in the caption for easier things. But then I'm such an analog girl to where I need paper and I need to hold it. I need to write stuff down. I need to see the image. So it just felt like this piece that could live in someone's kitchen and bring them joy. And I think everything that I do, I kind of approach from a very loving, joyous angle. There's fun recipes in there, like a chocolate cookie Oreo situation, cinnamon toast cereal. Sure, that's in there. But you also sometimes need to just get a roast chicken on the table or like a quick little lentil stew. Like there's

multiple recipes that anyone can do. I didn't want it to feel unapproachable. I didn't want it to feel unapproachable. I'm just a home cook. I started cooking three years ago. Which is crazy to think about and that you've actually built all of this when like that isn't something you've been doing since you're a kid. No. One thing I always tell founders is this. The idea is only the beginning. The real work is turning that idea into something that people can actually find, buy from, come back to and trust. That is where Shopify matters.

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select podcast in the survey and make sure you select our show in the drop down menu that follows. Okay, so let's talk about my favorite subject. What is it? It's money. Money. We love it. I'm going to put like little twinkles in your eyes. Literally. The jazz hands. I love the jazz hands. And we are jazz handing for you, my love, because, listen, now, according to Forbes, you made about $7.5 million last year. And I wonder how your upbringing, your relationship to money is working out now that you're actually making multiple millions as a business owner. So my dad was always very frugal with money. He was always, I don't know whether it's a German thing, but it was always he drilled into our head saving, live below your means. He came up with this pie chart of a percentage being, okay, you can only use 20% of your income for this, 30% of your income for this.

You should put this into savings and this is your living cost. It was never, oh, you're getting a paycheck, go ham and do whatever. He's very frugal about it. He always said, invest your money, save your money, live below your means. So that's kind of the mentality I took on and that got instilled in me. So I'm still like that. I'm like, we can't postmates that. It's going to be $20 in delivery fees.

I'm just going to run to the store really quick. So it really is like a balance of things. But then I do enjoy buying good quality ingredients. And so it really is this like thing I'm navigating that's really fun, but also a lot of responsibility. Because I want to set my family up in the best way. So I have multiple streams of income. I put my revenue very specific places. I invest in companies.

I do all these different things that aren't just one stream of income or one way of saving. There's different, I guess, building blocks to wealth. I always love listening to people and hearing what their money story is because it has so much impact in how you behave later in life. I can just, I can hear it. I have wanted a Birkenbag for so long. Could I have afforded it? Absolutely.

Have I bought it? No, it feels like not the best use of my money. Can I tell you that is me? Like my husband will tell you stories of me walking into Chanel for years and years and years and years fully with the money to do it and never ever for years. It's not that I didn't think I deserved it. No. It was just to me it felt.

so frivolous and that there was always a better use of the money. And so I really understand that money into my kids' college funds or investing it in something or buying stock or whatever. Yes. So let me do that. The Birken will come at some point. Listen, and it will always come if you take responsibility for looking after your own finances.

Do you even remember the first time somebody said that they pay you for a piece of content? I don't think it was content. It was modeling. It was. Oh, yeah, because you've been doing this since you were 14 years old. I've been working since I've been 14. But I got this check for a runway show on 10. It was 300 euros.

And I couldn't believe it. It was fantastic. And I remember feeling over the moon and being so happy that I could go out and buy myself a Starbucks for like six euros, which was so much money for a drink. But it felt like a reward. It was crazy. It was the best experience ever.

But when I was younger, I worked at a smoothie shop where it was a part-time job while I was doing my A-levels. and I was working after school and on the weekends and I would get $450 a month and I had to save that to pay for my driver's license. I hated it. Like it was just not what I wanted to do, but it taught me a lot about showing up, being there, doing your job and working hard for your money and being smart when you do have it and spending it right. Yeah, I mean, there's no great secret. You have obviously taken responsibility for yourself and your finances from a very young age. And I think having that career in modelling and having that 300 euros that would have felt like 3 million at the time, right?

It does. It feels like so much money. But it's interesting because I think that our relationships to money are developed over time. We all have a story and then we get better and better, hopefully, at stewarding our money. And because you have a family and because you have a husband and you're in a partnership, how comfortable are you talking about money? like right now as you even think about everything that's coming in your future, everything that's going around you right now. And how do you and lucky think about that as a family? I'm very lucky that we're on the same page about it. And we've never had any issue talking about money or finances or accounts or how to delegate money. It's always been really easy because we're on the same page about

building generational wealth. So it felt like there was never any friction with how we approach things and we've always had a mindset of we have both build our family wealth and our life together. So it's always 50-50. And I, that's just what it is. So with anything, like we don't have all these separate accounts. We have a joint account. Then I have obviously my business account. He has his business account. And then that's kind of what it is. Do you feel like the success that you've had has changed the dynamic in your relationship at all? No. Lucky is my biggest cheerleader. He is, he was the one encouraging me to keep going and going, and he's the one that comes out with creative ideas.

Like he helped me so much with the book. He helps me with my content when it comes to like sitting down and being like, honey, what dress should I wear for this? He's like, that one. Or when it comes to making mood boards or when I did the Reformation collection, he pulled a lot of the inspiration. Like he truly is such an integral part of my life and therefore also my business. So it's never felt weird.

He's like, the bigger, the better, honey. How can I help? What can I do to support you? in the best way. So it's a true partnership in that sense. What do you and lucky think about what is there for you to build together and what you want to do distinctly on your own, under your own name? We always have these very, we have these conversations a lot, especially when brands and partners started booking us together as a couple. We were sitting down having conversations being like, okay, this is smart to do as a couple. This is smart for just Nara to do. This is smart for

lucky to do by himself. And we wanted people to see us as a couple, but we're also our individual people. So I think it really depends on what we're doing and what we think the creative or the storyline should be. And then we kind of figure out whether that's a couple or an individual moment. But when it comes to building brands, I want my own brand. I want creative say and freedom and not that lucky wouldn't give me that because he definitely would. And if he is a silent partner, Great. Absolutely right. What is the business, Nara, that you're truly trying to build over the next decade?

I think there's so many sectors of it. So it's hard to be, oh, it's just one thing. I'm branching into acting. So that's really fun. That's a passion project. I'm going to be in a movie, have a cameo in a movie that's hopefully coming out next year, which is insane. So that is one thing that I kind of fell into. So acting, the publishing world with this first cookbook, I'm sure there'll be more.

obviously my content, which is a huge part of the business, but then also building things for myself, like building a consumer goods brand, and whatever way that is, we'll talk about that. I'll tease it a little bit. But doing that and also having equity in other companies, which comes with creative and other things that I do for the company behind the scenes.

So probably that for now, but ask me in a year, hon, and we'll have added a lot more to that. No doubt. no doubt. How much does the outside noise get to you? Because I can't imagine being 24 and having this level of commentary. Do you know what I mean? Because I feel like it's been, again, like, you're not a, you know, I think if you're a movie star or you're an artist, like you somewhat are raised to expect it. You know, you're just like some girl that wanted to cook and put a light on and seemingly did it in a very kind of like, you know, I'm just going to. Yeah.

In a super interesting way, but also in a super low-fi way, right? Because I fully expected you to say, Emma, there's a team of four people. I don't even have a light. And here's how we roll. It's like on days where it rains, I'm like a little screwed. I'm really going to talk to you about this because this is just, I don't know. I don't understand it. I feel like you can still have the control and have a tiny little team at that house.

Maybe let's wait until these kids are like six and seven and eight and nine. And then you'll come back to me and be like, Emma. They just started all these activities. I'm in the car all day. I need help. I need some help. I need some people. I'll be like, listen. I feel like the business girl the other day, but she was really good. I'll connect you. But I think it's also life evolves so much, so I might feel different. And that's also the thing, like, you get held to these standards. If you've said something once, that means that that's just the truth and nothing can change. I said I didn't

have help because I didn't have help. That changed when my daughter got sick and I needed help because I just couldn't do it. And people are like, well, she said she didn't have any help. three years ago. What did you do three years ago? I bet it's not what you did what you're doing today. So it really is like you get held to this impossible standard where you have to be perfect and really measured in what you say and really not offend anyone and really it's really hard. And in the beginning, it really got to me. The criticism, what people got to, had to say because I didn't see myself as that. I guess if it would have been true, I would have been like, you know what? Clocked it. But it wasn't what I felt. So I got really upset. I was also pregnant and then

postpartum and was dealing with postpartum depression and anxiety. And it really, like, I was sobbing. I had the worst time. And then the older I got and the more I kind of understood the landscape and what people had to say. And the fact that it probably says more about whoever is commenting than it says about you, because a sane person would honestly just keep swiping or block you and just be done. They wouldn't sit and craft up a hateful, mean comment. That isn't even an opinion. I don't mind opinions. I love an opinion. I love that you're voicing it. Do you need to be mean and hateful? No. And that says more about you than it says anything about my content or what I put out. So just kind of learning that and realizing that and being able to be in control. I also have two phones where one is for my social. So I can post and go or I do love interacting with my community. They're like my friends now. So I do respond to DMs and comments on all of that. But I can put it away and not be attached to that. And then the phone that I text on is where people can actually voice their opinion and tell me what they think. I will take no of that.

Yeah, I think that that usually takes people a lot longer to get to that position of strength. And I think I credit the fact that you've been actually working for so long. And so you've had to deal with outside opinion that of clients and, you know, doing goosies and having that rejection and having people talk about you. Oh, honey. I mean, I never did one because she's a little small over here and the face is a little round. But, you know, pretty ain't enough. But I did use to sit in those, you know, designer showrooms as an intern and watch these girls come through and hear the rejection. I thought, God, she's going to go outside and, like, just die and cry.

And inevitably, a lot of them did. And I think that what's happened for you over the last 10 years is that you have built and you have learned resilience. I wanted to reclaim ownership of me and my person and my name. I didn't want to be a mannequin or represent someone. else's vision. I wanted to be my own person and put my vision out and for people to resonate with me instead of the vision I'm bringing to life for someone else. It didn't feel sustainable for me or had anything to do with longevity, which was my ultimate goal. It just didn't align. Well, I think that what happened to you is that you became so much of a symbol around motherhood and femininity,

like money and a marriage. And so there was this like mass projection onto you. And I wonder, at which point you understood that the conversation had stopped being about recipes and it was about something that was much broader in the culture and actually not really anything to do with you personally? It took me a minute to wrap my head around that because I wasn't quite sure what was happening because I'd never been in that situation and I didn't necessarily have friends or other peers that have been in the situation where I could have texted them or called them and been like, what is happening? And I feel like I had to kind of weather every storm, by myself with Lucky and my agents at the time and kind of figure it out. And what they told me and

what I learned essentially through all of that was just do your thing, keep it going and don't say anything because regardless of what you say, it will get dissected and spun to fit a narrative that isn't yours. Why do you think people have such opinions about you? Maybe I'm controversial. Maybe I represent things that are a little too perfect that aren't realistic to some people. Maybe it's someone feeling inadequate because of the content that I put out and they're comparing themselves when that's never my goal. I'm just putting out something that will make you escape your reality or find inspiration or make you feel uplifted or give you outfits, but whatever it may be, that is positive. I'm never saying, hey, I'm this perfect person because I am not. And what you see

is a good moment and whatever I decide to put out. I'm not showing you me crying or me driving to the hospital or me spilling sauce all over myself. I'm not showing you. I'm not showing you. you the harder moments because those are private to me and I don't think I need to share that with millions of people around the world unless I decide I wanted to. But isn't that the very crux of it and exactly what you said, that actually the reaction is so much more a reflection of what's going on with the person because I watch you like it's a movie. Like I'm like, oh, you know.

When it goes well, I'm like, oh, this is great. People are either going to have a laugh. Sometimes I love when people have their little inside jokes when they're like, you're yelling. You're yelling at me. I'm like, it's fun. Totally. It doesn't have to be serious. Totally. I never have a hidden agenda or anything that's going on behind the scenes. It's just me wanting to share a craft and art with people. Yeah. But if you're not in a good place, then you take it completely differently. It becomes a verdict on something that you're not doing. And I do think, you know, and I can only relate to it in the most minuscule of ways.

But the only time I've had any sort of backlash is when I said or when I've said things that I've really true to me that work for me, that are opinions that I have and things that I've wanted to share. But what works for you doesn't mean it has to work for someone else. Just because someone says something doesn't mean you have to live by it. I can pick up words of wisdom from around me and there might be things that you say or someone else says that resonate and I can implement because they're genuinely good idea or when someone says something that I'm like, well, that doesn't work. Okay, it's not for me then. That doesn't mean that I don't want you to say it because it will make me go home and think about it. But that doesn't mean I have to take it and get frustrated about

it because it's not for me. Not everything is for everybody. So it really is interesting, kind of navigating that and as a public figure you will understand, kind of have to be careful about what you say, even if it's true for yourself, because a lot of people don't necessarily want to hear or listen. They just want another thing that they can dissect and spin. Yeah, and I think that that is a great shame. And I also think it's massively reductive for women. It really is. We need to see a lot of different versions of what it means to be a woman, of what it means to be a mother, of what it needs to go out and craft a business in your own likeness and what it means to go to work every day. And I think the more exposure we have, the more stories that we can see that are examples that go against what has been pushed on us as the culture, the default way.

The better. We need more opinions. We need more outspoken women. we need people talking about things that might be controversial because they might help, well, not even might. They will help a lot of women out there that are in situations that everyone's like hush, hush about because they don't want to upset or they don't want to come off a specific way when it could actually help a lot of people out there.

Absolutely. And I hope that people do that more. So take me into the future. Yes. If we were sitting here 20 years from now, you would still be really young and I'll be old as fuck, but that aside, that doesn't matter. That aside. Age is just a number.

Oh, it certainly will be because I'm going to look amazing. Even then, trust me, I live in America now as to you. You'll be fine. We'll be fine. You'll be so fine. I want to know if you fast forward into the future, what do you want the name Nara Smith to mean? I want to be able to have that name hold weight. I want people in all kinds of walks of life knowing who I am, whether that's a person

at school, whether that's someone's mom, whether that's someone's grandma, whether it's a guy, whether it's a girl, I want that name to resonate with people and them attach it with whatever it is that I'm putting out and I feel passionate about. And that's kind of what Martha does. Like she spans all audiences because of what she's built. And essentially, that's what it is. I just wanted to hold weight. Nara, let me tell you categorically, because you vocalize that, because you're not trying to hide behind your ambition. No. That is part of the reason that I am guaranteeing in 20 years. When we come back around, that will be the case.

And I honestly look at you and I think it's such a big lesson to just say what we want and to just be proud about the things. There's no shame in the game, babe. There just really isn't. And I think it's a great lesson to be really clear about what are our dreams, what are our hopes, what are we trying to strive for? And the fact that you can just say it like that, like I love it. I love it so much.

I could kiss you. I'm going to build an empire. So when we're sitting here in 20 years, we will have a completely different conversation about all my mistakes, all my lessons, all the things I've learned, and just how amazing this massive thing is that I'm building.

Well, like I said, I have absolutely no doubt about it. And I really hope that you're able to preserve the way that you think about these things right now because I think that being clear that there are going to be mistakes, that it's not going to be a linear, path that actually that's just part of your journey.

That's what's going to help you to be super successful because nobody just has a straight path. It's not all going to be like the last six years. And like, thank goodness. Because I would be boring. I mean, it would be boring. Also, you'd have like 25 kids, which would be horrendous. We're going to need to slow down on some fronts.

No, I mean, we're done having kids. I couldn't imagine being pregnant. Oh, honey, you are too young to say that. 24. Let me tell you the other thing that I will bet you. You are not done. I'm going to get my tubes tied. I'm going to schedule the appointment.

Let me tell you, I can just feel it. No, no, don't say it. You're going to get to like, listen, I'm 44 and I'm like, oh, maybe like one board chair and trick cake and see. No. I would literally, if I fell pregnant naturally tomorrow, I'd be like dropping a baby right now. I love that. What happens in 10 years?

You two are going to look at each other and be like, we're still hot though. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Yeah. Obviously, I'll look at him like that. I'll be like, absolutely. I would love to have another baby. but I don't think my body wouldn't be able to handle another pregnancy, another postpartum period,

but also then the toddlers, like these stages where we only talk about pregnancy and sometimes postpartum, very barely, but we never talk about what comes after. And that is really, really hard. The toddlers, the tantrums, the reasoning, all the things. I don't want to do that in 10 years. I want to do that now, which is why I had them back to back. I'm going through all of it at one time. And in 10 years, they're going to be old.

I'm not starting from scratch. There is no way. I'm going to get my tubes tight. I'm writing it down. I'm writing it down. I don't believe. No, I'm done. Because I want them out when I'm 40.

I want to be hot and thriving when I'm 40, just visiting my kids, them living their lives, giving them a ring every day. I'm going to live in this fantasy with you right now. I wanted you here on this podcast. You are scared me. Imagine I actually have four more. Mother of it. I can't.

I can't. Then we're going to have to revisit the label. Then I might just call you a tradwife just for shits. Too many kids not to label you. Then I was wrong. She's a trad wife. But what do we do? Because Lucky's grandparents were so successful and they had a slew of kids.

They did? I just. Why do I associate that also having multiple kids with that label? If there's so many working moms back to what we're saying, we only hear about trad wives at home with their kids, but there's multiple women that have eight children that I've talked to that run businesses and are successful at it, but they don't really voice that,

or it's just not a conversation we can have in public with people actually listening and taking stuff away. So it always is that, oh, she has a bunch of kids, she must be this. She has, it's weird. But you tell me, why do you think that is? I don't know. I would love an answer to that. Because listen, if you have eight kids, you got to work.

Yeah. Like what one salary person can look after that? So expensive. They're so expensive. So expensive. And listen, I mean, there is the work outside the house, right, to be financially supportive. But either way, you are working. Because any number of children, if you have two, you have four, whatever it is,

if you have eight children, the work is the work. And so we need new language. We need a new way of speaking about one another. because something I've spoken about so frequently is, I don't know that all the men care that much. I don't know that they're part of this conversation and I don't know that they care. This is a woman-on-woman situation.

The articles are written by women. The commentary is other women. That's what we need to think about. As women and having articles written about me and what I do by women, that sit down with me and then still write a nasty article when everything I said alludes to the, like, shows you very, very straightforward that I'm a businesswoman and then you turn around and try to

use my kids and how many I had and at a young age and got married young against me when I think it's a superpower. Raising the next generation and doing that in the best way you can and showing them everything you have to give, isn't that just so magical? To me it is. It doesn't have to be for anyone. Again, take from this what you will. It's not for everyone. But for me, it's one of the most magical things, being able to do that and being in a position where I get to do that while also having a career and raising my kids and them seeing that. What do you still aspire to be or to become? It's interesting because I think growth happens over time. So I don't know what the next 40 years will look like for me. All I know is that I want to be the best version of myself, show up for myself,

my kids, my business, for everyone around me and myself in the best way that I can. And also just giving myself grace. I think I've been so hard on myself. I think as women we are hard on ourselves and whatever way that is. So just give yourself a little bit of grace. I love that answer. I really do. All right, rapid fire. We're going to go. Nara, my darling, what is the hardest thing you've ever made from scratch? You know what, Twizzlers. I still haven't gotten it right. Oh. Yeah. Hurry up. I know, I'm trying. Trying. What is something that you will happily buy pre-made from the grocery store? Okay, this is a hard question because I love homemade ice cream and I make it a lot.

But there's this one specific ice cream flavor by Jenny's ice cream called birthday cake. Jars of it. I literally. When it goes on sale, Emma, cleared. It's so expensive. It's so expensive. I look for the 20% sticker. First of all, that, that's hilarious.

Speaks to the German roots. Your father would be so proud. He would be so proud of you. I literally should come to my house because my kids think it's free and they just have stacks of it and it upsets me when I see it. I find it offensive. One scoop for you, child. I'm not working for this birthday cake shit. No, but it's phenomenal. It's so good. But it is. It's really good. What's the best money you've ever spent? On a flight. I love flying comfortably because we fly so much and I don't get a lot of sleep. So that's something I really feel grateful for it.

To me, it's like I'm spending on the flights. A flight. I'm spending on the flights. Nara, thank you so much for coming on Aspia. This was so fun. Yes. Evan, I love you. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'll be so grateful.

Aspire with Emagreed is presented by Auducy. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown, and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja Saluja. and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Shorts.

Angela Paluso is our Booker, original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetek and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Holman, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at the lead company and WME.

Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mekyll, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E, that's AspI-R-E-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emigreed.me.