Aspire with Emma Grede - Patrick Ta on Accountability, Identity and Building a Beauty Empire

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

Patrick Ta built one of the most successful beauty brands in the world after dropping out of high school, filing for bankruptcy at 21, and spending years building his career one client at a time. What started with a makeup kit and a dream eventually led to working with some of the biggest names in the world, launching Patrick Ta Beauty, and becoming one of the most influential makeup artists of his generation. But this conversation isn't just about success. In this episode, Patrick sits down with Emma for a candid conversation about the recent controversy surrounding his Transition Blush launch, the criticism that followed, and what accountability looks like when your name is on the brand. Together, they unpack creator credit, intention versus impact, reputation, and the challenges that come with building in public. Patrick shares: • How bankruptcy shaped his ambition and work ethic • Why makeup was the first thing that gave him confidence • The journey from celebrity makeup artist to beauty founder • What he's learned building Patrick Ta Beauty into a leading beauty brand • How he thinks about accountability, influence, and creator credit • The responsibility that comes with having your name on the product • What this experience taught him about leadership and integrity What's a belief about success you've been carrying that might be costing you more than it's giving you? Drop it in the comments. And subscribe to Aspire with Emma Grede so you don't miss what's next. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Today, I'm having a conversation with Patrick Tar, one of the most recognisable makeup artists in the world and the founder of one of the most successful beauty brands in Sephora. Patrick was booked before the launch of his new blushes sent the internet and makeup community into a spiral. But by the time he sat down with me, he knew our conversation had to be about more than just makeup. What I found interesting is that Patrick didn't come in just to tell his story.

He came in open, emotional and willing to learn, not only from the conversation, but from my own mistakes as a founder. and from the accountability that comes when the impact of a launch lands differently than you intended. So yes, we talk about the controversy, but we also talk about the full trajectory that brought him to this very moment. Growing up feeling unseen, opening a now salon at 18, going bankrupt at 21, building his career through social media when that was still frowned upon, and turning artistry into a brand built for longevity. This is a conversation about reputation, recognition and what it means to take responsibility when you're business becomes bigger than just you. Here's Patrick Tar. Let's be honest, finding supplements you

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Patrick Tart, welcome to Aspire. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I am so happy to have you. It feels like it's a really long time coming. Honestly, I am so inspired by you. So honestly, I feel like I hope to learn something from you today as well. I'm really excited to have you because for me and for so many of us, you are one of the most recognizable makeup artists in the whole world. I've read some incredible stats about the business that you have and that you've built at Sephora. But I think what's so interesting about you is that you're still a working makeup artist.

And even with all of the accolades that you have, with the size of the brand and with everything that you're doing, you still choose to be there. and working with your clients. And when I hear about your experience, I always think that, you know, you were this kid who spent their childhood really feeling like you didn't quite belong. And I wonder how your experience and essentially how that has shaped,

how you thought what was possible for you. I have always been a dreamer. I grew up. I'm first generation Vietnamese American. I did not excel in school. I'm a high school dropout. I was bullied. I have a stuttering speech in impeachment, and I never really felt like I belong.

I was considered the black sheep of my family. Coming from a Vietnamese family, like my sister, my cousins, all really excelled in school, and I just couldn't get good grades. So I dropped out of high school. And back then, my mom had a bunch of nail salons while I was growing up. My dad did construction. And when I look back of how I was raised, like, I used to be, like, so ashamed of where I came from. I was ashamed of what my parents did.

Growing up in, like, a predominantly, like, Caucasian neighborhood, all of my friends' parents had these, like, amazing jobs. And my mom did nail. She probably did my friend's mom's nails. And for some reason, like, I was just, I was like, I was so ashamed. and it wasn't until I moved out of San Diego. I moved to Arizona, really like just wanting to reinvent my life. I came out of the closet. And at the age of 18, I somehow convinced like my mom and my dad to open up a nail salon for me.

This is something that I was so ashamed of. Like, why am I choosing to do this? Because I had no other direction. I basically ran that business to the ground. So at the age of 21, I had to file bankruptcy. And at that point, like, I was the biggest disappointment to my parents. As a first generation Vietnamese American whose parents sacrificed an enormous amount for them. Like, I wonder how much of how you operate is kind of informed by that upbringing that you had.

I moved to Los Angeles and I like set out this dream to start my career as a makeup artist. I made sure that I was going to succeed. This was 14 years ago. That was when it was like the start of social media. I would reach out to clients. I remember I was charging $50 to do makeup. I was just so hungry to make a name for myself and to honestly to redeem myself from my parents,

to make them proud. And that like driving force of my bankruptcy has like, I think led me to like where I am today. No doubt. If you could kind of pinpoint one moment from your childhood or your early career that's really shaped who you are on what you do now, do you think it would be that bankruptcy? I think it was a lot of things. I think growing up, like really overweight, growing up, not having any friends, growing up, never being told that I was good at anything until I started doing makeup. Like makeup was the first time that someone like gave me like my first like compliment.

makeup was the first thing that someone told me that I was finally good at something. And I like held on to that for dear life. When I first started doing makeup, I was like very quiet. I just came to work and I did my job and really just like tried to make my clients feel like the best like version of themselves. And I realized that me building up the girl sitting in in my chair, their confidence, it truly like built mine, And makeup has given me my voice. It's given me my confidence. It's given me, like, this entire career.

So what I'm able to do for the girls? Like, they do that for me. I'm really interested to understand, like, more about, like, the early Patrick and, like, where that resilience comes from. Because when you have a failure like that, you essentially dropped out of high school, open the salon. You then, I think you're 18, you go bankrupt by the time. You're 21.

Most people would have just turned around, gone home, decided, like, you know, this type of career is not for me. but you actually decided to like, you know, start something in new. I wonder like if you think about those three years, what were the big takeaways for you now that you look back on that time? I think for me, like I never wanted to feel like that low again. I did everything in my power. I was working seven days a week, not going out. Honestly, like from my 20s to my 30s, no social life whatsoever,

really just like heads down trying to make a name for myself. I mean, it's amazing to even think about that there's like a decade of unbelievable, like, work there. Because, you know, it kind of, when you look at like your bio, one minute, you're on a Mac counter and the next minute you are like literally working with some of the most impressive and unbelievable clients in the world. So actually what happens in that time, like from Mac counter to you picking up clients like Shay Mitcher and Rihanna and Jalo. Like, tell me like what was the actual turning point for you. I have always been obsessed with makeup. When I moved to Los Angeles, I was DMing people. I would reach out to as many people as I could and just like wanting someone to say yes.

Something that was, I think that was like frowned upon like back then, but I didn't know how else to reach these people. I didn't want to fail again. And at the very beginning of my career, like when it was so taboo to take photos of your clients, I did that. and I would take selfies with my clients and post my work on social media. And there was this article maybe 12 years ago from Vanity Fair. They wrote an article about me saying that I was selfie made. And even though it was so like frowned upon, I did it anyways. And it has given me the chance to be where I am today.

Within two years, I was working with Gigi. Back then, she only had like 200,000 followers. She was so young. She was so new. And one thing just came after another. I feel like back then, if you got a follow from someone back then, it meant that I was probably going to work with them within the next month or so. How much did you understand the power of social media then?

Because it was very, very different. And like you say, almost kind of frowned upon in a way. So if you kind of think back to that time, were you aware that that was like a way that you were going to build your own business? Like, did it feel like it does today? Even though social media was so new to me, I really dove into it. And I could see that even though I had like 6,000 followers, I was like booking clients. And it was like, oh, this is great.

I was charging $50, like $75 here and there making $500 a day. And I thought I was killing it. I was like crushing it. I was like, this is amazing. I could do this forever. Then as my career progressed, just opportunity, like bigger. opportunities came from social media. It came from people seeing my work online. My Instagram became my portfolio for people to see. I feel like the days of looking at the internet for client work

changed. There's been such a seismic shift. You know, I'm old enough to remember even pre-internet. You know, it's like somebody would send you a book. Like it was so crazy. You would have like a physical book and those, it changed like so quickly. And it's interesting because, it feels like you were one of the first makeup artists to really understand that and to really take advantage of it. I'm interested to understand like when and how you transitioned from being this like celebrity makeup artist. I'm sure there was a time when you were getting lots of brand deals to then actually creation of your own brand. So I've always wanted to have my own brand. I've always wanted to be successful. So seven years ago, we launched Patrick Tao Beauty. And I started working

on this like eight years ago, but this was the time where I was probably one of the biggest makeup artists at that time. I was working with Rihanna, Jalo, Ariana Grande, and that time, Kylie had just, I think, sold her beauty brand for a billion dollars. And every single person was like, I want a beauty brand. People were flocking to me to invest in me. And I had probably five or six people or firms like reach out to me to start a brand with me. And me not knowing anything about business. I've never had a corporate job. I was honestly like a little freaked out. And I realized that even though I didn't know how to get to this point, I wanted to be with someone that made me feel safe. But you understood that your name had value beyond your straight services. Like you were aware

that you were becoming like a brand name in of yourself? Or was it like, oh, this is a surprise that people are asking me to do this? I think I've always had like imposter's than I think for me, like, growing up, I've always been like very, very, very shy. I still am. I think some people can take that as me being standoffish or coming off the wrong way. But I'm a very shy person. And I'm like shocked sometimes that like people even like know who I am. But I am proud of like my career.

I can say that I work tremendously hard. And at that time, I did have a little bit of talkiness. because I was working with Rihanna. Like, she was, like, the baddest girl in the industry. And... Talk to me about the cockiness. I love that because I think it's actually quite... Like, it's kind of self-depreciating that you even recognize that in yourself.

Like, what do you mean? I knew that I had every single major pop star in the world. And that meant something to me. I kind of, like, grew into my confidence. Like, oh, like, maybe I'm actually, like, good at something. It gave me, I guess, like, leverage to these people, like, reaching out to me to create a brand and to, I guess, make money off me. Even though, like, I didn't think about it that way back then, I knew that I wanted to create a brand, but I didn't know how I was going to get there.

I didn't have my own capital, nor did I fully want to throw everything that I've made because I've experienced that bankruptcy. It's in the back of your head. I was a little afraid, but I'm I'm still like, I'm a risk taker now. And I like, I dove in. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about that moment because you launched your brand in 2019, which is just before the pandemic. I mean, absolute timing. But I'm so interested to how it actually came about. So at this point, it's like you've got every dream client in the world that you could have. You have a bunch of brands and the big kind of conglomerates, I imagine, kind of coming to you saying, hey, we love what you're doing. And we'd love to use your name and create a brand. So how does that?

Patrick Tar, the brand actually get born? So one of my first clients, her name is Rima, her and her husband, they had talked to me about building a brand before, but they had no experience. I have no experience. What did they have? Like money? Yeah. So Rima was one of my first clients to ever book me.

And her husband had just sold his like pharmaceutical company. So he's a businessman, but not necessarily in the cosmetic space. Yeah. I reached out to her to see. if this is something that she would be interested in because she's brought it up like many times during our glam sessions. And at first, they were like, no, we're like, we don't want to do this. It was like a year later. Did you pursue other opportunities in that year? Like, did you go down the road with potential suitors and take the meetings? So I had like a bunch of options. I had a few

incubator companies. I had like a few other clients as well. But I was really impressed by how Alvo was able to exit his company within like three years. And I was like, let's try this. And one, like, I just like, I really just connected with Rima, my co-founder. There's also just so much to be said of an existing relationship. Like, right? What you know, what you've seen. Certainly for you, you're coming from a place of like not necessarily being able to trust

all the advances that are around you. And so you went for what was comfortable and what you thought you knew. I went with what was comfortable. And we did it that way. I see all these brands now launching so big and all these categories and like in such a big way. Like I launched with like three products. This brand was always meant to be launched just like D to C. I launched with a body oil, a lip shine, a highlighting mist and then like a fan.

Kind of amazing and random set of products. I know. I'm like, wait a minute. I was expecting you to go like a mascara, a lipstick and a blush. And I'm like, okay, okay. But maybe that was it like did that? I mean, I'm assuming that that. product mix really set you apart? It did. I, during that time, like, during the development

process, like, Rima and I had no idea what we were doing. We were like six months in, and we weren't really moving anywhere. We, like, looked online where to make product. And like, this is like, I feel like what so many people go through when they're trying to start their own brand. Like, where do you even start? We ended up outsourcing a, um, external like agency to, to help us. And a friend of a friend that worked at Sephora caught wind that I was like starting a brand. They asked us to fly to San Francisco. And I was like, oh my God. This is such a big moment for me because like,

Sephora is a brick and mortar that I have always admired. It's a store that I've, that I shopped at. I flew to San Francisco with our three products to present. I was so nervous. I came into this like boardroom. There was like 20 people in there. And I presented everything that I had. I told them my story.

I told them like my hopes and dreams. and I left that meeting with like tears, like, running down my face because, like, I was so happy. Were you like, I killed this and Sephora are going to take my brand? I knew I was an amazing makeup artist. I knew I had the best client. So, like, of course you want me. I left crying because I was just like so happy with, with how it all, like, came to place. And Sephora is such a inviting company.

We ended up launching exclusively at Sephora a year and a half later. So it's pretty quick between you. starting with your friend and business partner to actually launching product on your own to then a year and a half later getting in Sephora. That's a pretty quick trajectory. And this is all happening around COVID as well. This is like right before COVID. And like not knowing anything about the industry then, like we launched. They gave us a N-cap in 200 doors. And I was like, why aren't they going to give me more doors? I don't, I don't understand. We only had three products on four shelves. We used like all the other shelves for, like, photos.

What I didn't realize back then is that, like, every single square foot of Sapphora needs to generate dollars. And the fact that they were able to take a leap on to us really, like, said something. I'm now in over a thousand doors and I'm a top 10 brand at Sephora. It's crazy to, like, even say that.

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off at BetterHelp.com slash aspire. That's better h-elp.com slash aspire. Hey, y'all. Poodle and Maddie here from Reality Gaze. Grab your favorite thong because for the first time, we're heading to the villa for the new season of Love Island, USA. Maddie, I can't wait to watch Ariana babysit these shiny, oiled up adults, who I'm pretty sure aren't there for the right reasons.

From the homewrecking bombshells and the Casa Amor Trauma to the absolute wreckage of movie night. We're judging it all. Pull up a daybed and join us every Wednesday for all the Love Island USA drama. Find reality gaze wherever you get your podcasts. I want to go back quickly before I go forward because I think it's an important thing not to skip over. When you did your deal with your current business partners and your first investors, how did you know what to ask for? How did you think about structure and how did you equate your value given that they had all the money?

you had all the expertise. Seemingly, neither of you had the experience to actually launch a brand in that space. So what did that conversation look like and what did that deal look like? I wanted to make sure that I was getting like a fair deal. I had like five or six other deals on the table. None of them came to like fruition. But I had some sort of like idea of what other people were offering me. And I wanted to make sure that it was fair.

I got a really good lawyer. I had to ask like, all my. clients, my agents, like, their agents, like, does this seem fair? Is this okay? What's normal? Because honestly, like, I didn't know. People say that I got like a really good deal. Some people say that I got like a really bad deal. I think it depends on what you are comfortable with. And at the end of the day, like I am so grateful that someone even was able to take a chance on me. I love to hear that one of the things that you did was pursuing the other deals because I think what people often do when they have an opportunity, they put all their eggs in one basket and this is the thing that I want to do.

And actually going around, dating a little bit, understanding who's got what offer, speaking to people. Like, that is how you get to the deal that you're supposed to do. Now, whether you did a good deal or a bad deal, I mean, I guess you'll never know. Because you did the deal you did. I'm sure you did and I'm sure it's working out. But I think it's really interesting that when you don't know, all you can do is ask a lot of questions. All you can do is take a lot of meetings. And I think the one thing that I always try to encourage people to do is whether or not you're super interested in the end opportunity.

It's like, take a call, take a meeting, sit down with people because you will learn something in the discovery. And even if you take that conversation into the next thing, it can like just be super helpful. When I think about your brand now, you said you're in a thousand doors of Sephora. I think you sell three blushes every minute, which is kind of crazy. And you're at the, you're like, you're like number one blush in Sephora. We like teeter, tether between number one and number two. What does it actually take to hold onto that position? And how have you thought about growing the brand, growing your categories,

and what you can do in your space? So, like, three years ago, when we became that number one position, best believe every single other brand out there is probably buying that blush, bringing it into their product development team, and dissecting it and like, why is this number one? I think it is really important as a brand. Compete with yourself and never stay stagnant. Like, just because I have like the number one blush right now,

it doesn't mean it's always going to stay like that. When I launch a product now, these products, I stand behind. And that is so important for me. Like when I first launched the brand, I was creating products that I really felt were missing from my own makeup kit, but how I create products now is that I need to know that I still want to talk about this five years from now. You need to be able to love your product and make sure that the formula is there.

So once you even like stop talking about it, the formula speaks for itself. And I made sure that the products that I launch, I love them, I stand behind them and that I always like ask myself, will I love this like 10 years from now? And that's a really hard question because you don't know. It's a hard question. I think it's a hard lesson to learn. And I felt the same thing. You know, I used to get fatigue.

I was like, are we really going to do like another blue gene campaign? And it's like, yes. And if we're lucky, in 30 years, we'll just be doing blue gene campaigns and still talking about the same thing. Because when you do something with excellence and you're really amazing at it, it's the best thing in the world is to be able to double down and have that product and speak about that product. over and over and over again. But I think that you're right.

You can't get lazy. You have to innovate. You have to iterate. And you always have to be thinking about the next thing. You have to also know when it's like the right time to evolve from that product. You can't do it too quick and you can't do it too late. Even though I might understand this like this technique of cream over powder. I think it's so old.

It's been like three years. There are so many people out there that have no idea what it is. I launched that blush duo five years ago. It was like sitting stagnant on the shelves for at least like a year and a half. It wasn't until like I started educating. I started really like showing people how to use or different ways of using it that like this blush like took off like wildfire. I've seen that in my own business.

It's not everything is a hit out of the gate. But if you really believe in something, like you have to kind of really double down and say, this is what it is, this is what I stand for. I have a lot of belief and conviction in this product, and I'm just going to keep going because eventually things take light. And I think the same things happened in my own company. It's like you launch something and two years later it takes off and you might just be a little bit ahead of the curve. How do you like spot new trends, see what's happening in your business and decide actually this is a product that I need to create. This is a category that I need to be in. So because like I'm a working micrifier, I don't think that I'm going

give it up anytime soon. When I do make up, I don't really look for trends. It's really important for me because I work on some of like the biggest names in Hollywood. I just want them to feel the best version of themselves. I want them to feel confident and I want them to book me again. And how you get that to happen is that they feel like the best versions of themselves. I'm not focused on trends. I'm focused on making my clients just like love how they look and they feel confident. Sometimes those looks become trends. I bring that then into my development process. I want to talk to you a little bit about the business and because I look at it, I'm like, my goodness, you started with like such a tiny team. Now you've got a team of over 60 people. What has been, I guess like the hardest leadership

lesson that you've learned as the company's grown and scaled? It's so crazy that I can even say that I have over 60 people for the first four years. Like we were a team of four. It was me, my business partners, and we had a social media girl. The fact that we were able to do what we did back then is I feel like those days were like a blur. But we took private equity four years ago. It wasn't just about raising money.

It was really about finding like the right strategic partner. I feel like we've like fully exhausted our own knowledge, like what knowledge we had. We needed a partner that could really like take us to the next stage. We really wanted someone with the knowledge, the experience, the relationships, to really take us to that next level. Which, by the way, is the best version of having a partner and raising money.

Because I think when you have a partner that comes with just the money, like you tire of that partner at the same rate that the money dwindles down. But when you have a partner that brings something to the business, like strategic relationships, they've been in that category before, they understand the business, they can open up doors for you, it actually is a game changer. Is that what you've experienced with your partner? Even though they have come in, they have brought in so much experience, like, there's still so many times that I feel like in like these like board meetings or like I always like speak my truth.

I always say how I feel because I'm so passionate about what I do. I don't want to lose who I am within the brand because like when when private equity comes into play, it's all about numbers and and scaling the brand. But for me, it's always been about the product. It's been about like building this like legacy. This brand is all I have. I've been working the last like 15 years of my life. Like it's it's led up to this point and it's all I have. How are you able to tow the line between the needs and what they want and actually what

it is that you want to do and how you want the brand to remain? I still like juggle that still till this day. We partnered with a private equity firm that one believes in the product. They believe in me. and it's truly been like the most amazing relationship. Like we've grown so much from their experience, their knowledge. And I honestly like, they haven't really tried to like change me. There are certain things where when it comes to operations and it comes to production schedule,

like I am not going to let a product go onto the shelves if it is not great. These are things that I didn't learn until maybe like two, three years in. Like, there's so much that goes into the development process that I never in a million years thought that like was even needed. I thought that you would go in, you would create a formula, you would create a color, and it would be done. But that's not the case. When you like do like replenishments, like all of these are like raw ingredients.

Things change all the time. And like the color doesn't always. stay the same. Like the one thing that I'm like such a huge stickler about is that I want consistency. I want the consistency in the formula in the color. Because like sometimes if you go into a store now, you see a brand that you have like your favorite blush and you go in three years later, you buy the same color. They're not the same color. But that's something that I am like such a stickler about. I didn't even know to ask that question until I learned about it. I remember like sitting in my first board meeting.

There are all these numbers, like, on the screen. Like, what the hell do these say? There's all these like abbreviations. Like, I knew nothing, but this brand has my name on it. Like, I'm not afraid to sound dumb. I'm not afraid to ask questions. I ask dumb questions all the time because, like, I just want to know. Do you feel like it's your responsibility to understand?

Are you the type of founder that's like decided I need to understand the numbers? I need to understand the abbreviations. Or do you feel like you stay more in your creative lane? I stay more in my creative lane, but it is important. for me to understand them. I will ask the question. And every single year has been like a different year. I tackle,

I tackle something every single year or every single month, honestly. Like, the more I learn about it, the more I get interested in it. But we are at the point in our brand life now that it's like getting bigger. I can't be in every department, even though I want to be. The first like year when we started bringing on talent and like building our executive suite,

it was really hard for me to let go and to trust. Yeah, especially because if for the first three years when you were absolutely killing it, there are only four of you because I know you eventually brought on a CEO, right? And I wonder what was actually happening in the business that forced you to realize, I can't do this all myself, and actually I need this position in the company. I was never the CEO of my company. My business partner, although he was running the company. and we got to a stage where the business was growing at such like a fast face.

We needed someone with experience within the industry. You needed a professional beauty CEO. Yeah, beauty CEO that like understood the relationship with Sephora. Like that like we are exclusive with Sapphora. You're still exclusive to Sephora? I am still exclusive with Sephora. Wowzers, you are. And I'm proud to say that.

They have been nothing but amazing to us. They have really helped us grow. and they have been like the best partners and there will be a time where we will spread our wings but right now like I'm so happy. I mean, no doubt you've built an amazing business but I have to challenge you on that because where I come from,

the idea of like literally having all my eggs in one basket, meaning that everything is with one partner, they control whether the lights are on or the lights are off. As somebody who's like, you know, you're controlling, you're the person that like, you have an idea of what this brand is. How do you leave it up to Sephora to decide the success

and the speed that your brand is growing? I think there are so many beauty brands that are launching right now and everyone is like following this like same path. I'm building something slow but I'm also building something for like longevity. There's still like so much time. And for me,

I want to be able to make sure every single market that I am in now that we show up with excellence. And I'm able to cater to that before I expand. Because like going into like these different markets, you need people on the ground. You need to understand like the region. And I used to think like, why aren't I in all these regions?

Like why aren't I world? Like why didn't we launch worldwide? We launched only in the U.S. We just launched in the Middle East. We just launched in Mexico and Southeast Asia. And we're doing it slowly because I want to make sure the experience for the Patrick Taugh girl is like the best experience possible. I don't want to jump ship and launch somewhere where people don't know me.

Our product just sits on the shelf because that is like the worst thing ever. I love that answer actually, that you still have time because I feel like everyone's always in such a rush to have everything and to do everything that it can be possible for the brand. And in a way, Sephora is like a safeguard, right? you get to go into a market, you get to have, you know, best in class representation. You get to go in in a way that you understand and work with a partner that understands you. So because we are exclusive with support too, like I hold that against them. Like you better give me, you better treat me like I am your only child.

Damn right, you do. Because like they have to understand like we are giving up a lot to be here. So I always challenge them for. Support. One thing that I've learned building businesses is that having a great product is only part of it. The operational side, site optimization, data, the work that keeps everything running, it's its own job. And most founders aren't experts at it. That's where things can really store. Shopify has been investing seriously in tools that handle that part for you. Sidekick is the one that is worth you knowing about. It's their AI tool that analyzes trends, optimizes your store, drafts copy, run to do you.

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What did you learn from Sephora that you think maybe you didn't know or something that they really have kind of taught you and educated you in your business? I have a really good story for that. So, Sapphora is going to buy into you. They're going to pump you up. They're going to be like your best friend. We're going to kill it. We're going to launch this.

And one of our holiday collections, like four or five years ago, they, like, they ordered so much. And I was like, oh, my God, we're going to, we're going to, like, crush this holiday. And as much information and advice that they try to give you or lead you in a certain way, they are a business themselves. They have 500 other brands that they're looking at and trying to grow and scale. They have their own numbers that they need to me. You're not the only child. I am not the only child. So you need to make sure when you launch a product, you do it how you want to do it.

And you show up how you want to show up, not how they want you to show up. You launch what you feel comfortable with. Damn right. And I think any external partner is looking out for themselves. You might be in cahoots and partnership. And there's certain things that you can do together. But it's on you. Right.

It's like it really is. And I feel like I've also learned that the hard way, getting giant orders from specific retailers and then sitting on a bunch of stuff and them saying, I want RTV there. I want to return it. And I'm like, oh shit, you do? We were in this together. It's like the partnership's gone all of a sudden. But it actually, at the end of the day, it's always your problem, right? It's like at the end of the day, your brand, your problem. It's really true. Now, listen, we have to talk about the recent controversy because there has been a lot of chatter online about you and your latest product,

the transition blush to you. For anybody that doesn't know or for anyone that's been living under a rock, this kind of transpired. around another incredible and very respected and well-known makeup artists painted by Esther. And I wonder what your perspective has been on this backlash. Yeah. So I recently launched Transition Blush. It is a three-step program. And this is for the blush lover.

A blush lover. The blush lover. You need to have your regular blush, your transition blush, and really something to really marry your concealer to your, blush. You weren't content selling, you know, three blushes every minute. You were like, we need to sell more blush. But this is like the part of like the world building of blush. Like this is something that I was obsessed with. Well, you're the blush guy. Yeah. What started off as a conversation about the product, if this was a need or not,

it grew to a much like larger conversation about recognition and creator influence, especially like within the black community and not being, recognized for their contributions on culture. At first, to be honest, I did not understand it. The intent of this launch was never to take ownership over this technique. It was to really, like, create a product to simplify this artist technique that people have been doing and simplifying it for the consumer. This has become, like, such a larger conversation.

And I've had to take a step back and to... really like listen to what everyone has been saying. And I've realized that even though it wasn't my intention, the impact matters. Esther is an amazing makeup artist. She really popularized this like high contrast of blush on dark skin. When we were creating the launch strategy

for this collection, I wanted to invite artists and creatives and creatives and creators that shared the same love for blush. Did a collaboration with Esther ever come up internally? So I personally reached out to Esther. My team reached out to Esther and unfortunately she declined the opportunity because she wasn't taking paid collaborations at the moment. And this was prior to the launch?

This was prior to the launch. Okay. So you actually went out to her to be a part of your launch of this particular product. Yeah. This launch has been a very hard launch for me. like I created this like with like such heart and it feels to me Patrick like you kind of understand that launching this particular product without a mention of her influence of the technique kind of felt like an erasure of her influence and again I think she's been very vocal

she didn't create the technique she's somebody that's more recently popularized the technique but the fact that you guys went out with it in the way that you did feels like she should have somehow come up and being credited and she wasn't. And because it so frequently happens, specifically with black female creators and artists, it has, it's escalated into something that is disproportionate to what you would have perhaps hoped for, considering that you went out to her. But it feels to me like there's some sense of remorse or some sense of understanding or am I misunderstanding. Yeah, I'm really sorry for, like, I am generally sorry for like the hurt and the frustration that I have caused and that for anyone who has ever felt like overlooked or not

recognized on like their contributions, like that was never my intent. My intent was only to create a product to allow people to make this technique like more more accessible at home. And when we talk about like the trademark issue. Because that's what people have got their knickers in a twist about, right? People feel like the fact that you trademarked it is the, the overstep. Like, that's the thing that's got people, like, super riled up, apart from the fact that she's not involved and her name isn't mentioned, it's like you've gone out and taken this technique and put a trademark around it.

So what people don't understand are, like, I did not trademark the technique. You cannot trademark a technique. You trademark the name. I trademark the name. And I trademark every single product name. Well, and I just want to, and I don't want to cut you off, but I do want to just say, so do I. Every single fucking thing I do in every single brand.

if a trademark is available, we will trademark it. Because the intention and the investment and, you know, we're not making products that last a week. We're trying to make products that last five, 10, 15 years. A matter of usual business practice is to try to trademark what it is that you're putting into the market. There's nothing weird and unusual about that, even if it isn't fully understood. But of course, there has been uproar around the fact that you did that.

But I think it's important clarification that you're not trademarking a technique because you can't, you're trademarking the product name. I think this conversation became even bigger because several years back, I had an incident with this creator. Her name is Ivana Sunshine, who is a creator that I met through Sabor Squad and I loved her energy. I like saw her content. It was like so authentically her. I reached out to my team to work with her on like a brand level. and there was a delayed payment on an invoice, which was fixed. But not knowing back then, like, how this happened, like, I hated that that happened. And it was really important for me to, like, take a step back and, like, pause for a second and really, like, understand, like, what happened.

I really, like, realizing that, like, this was a administrative issue, we did a complete, like, overhaul on our accounting process to make sure that, like, this, like, never happens again. but I also understand that like when you are building a brand, mistakes happen. Like people are not perfect and I am not perfect. But what I can say is that I work really hard to learn and to always try to be better and do better. Yeah. And I mean, it feels like you've built this career of yours

on sort of fighting to be seen. And so there's a responsibility, I guess, that you must feel somewhat that you have around allowing others to be seen. And I think that's the thing that people have missed, right? This becomes an issue of reputation. One thing happens, something else. People draw a line between the two, and your reputation is what you're essentially trying to defend.

And I think that's where if you're an outsider, it looks a bit murky because when you look at what the internet says, there's an allegation around your business partner, booking an appointment, and perhaps that appointment not being what it was originally intended to be, which is this do and go. And so Esther gets left in this position where she's like, wait a minute, they want to film my technique. This is a partner of Patrick's and this isn't something I'm, you know, comfortable with. And then there's a separate thing of you filming some content and verbatim using some of painted by Esther's language. And I think that there's no smoke without fire. It's like the one thing happens, the second thing happens, the third thing happens, and all of

a sudden you find yourself in the eye of the storm. Now, I'm not sitting here saying whether you're wrong or right. I'm asking really the question to you is having had the benefit of hindsight and been able to look at what's happened. Would you have done anything differently? I want to touch on my business partner reaching out to Esther to do her makeup. This was not a brand related thing. So Rima, my business partner, reached out to Esther on a personal level to get her makeup done for Easter brunch. And content was always like within the asked. Oh, so it was. wasn't a do-and-go. It wasn't a do-and-go. It was always in the ass with to her team. They sent over a rate and then changed the rate a few days later and Rima declined. So the job never happened.

Oh, so Rima declined. So actually, I feel like the story on the internet is the other way around. The story on the internet is that a do-and-go was booked. The booking then changed on the day of into I want to be able to film this content. And actually it was Esther who decided, I'm going to cancel the appointment because she wasn't comfortable showing, you know, doing her technique, I think specifically with your business partner.

Yeah, I think being an artist myself and having an agent, I don't know everything that my agent communicates with the client. And I think that is something that happened between her and her agent with the communication, because we have all the emails

and it is stated exactly as that. No, fair enough. What do you think about the criticism in terms of this idea of how you have presented yourself online with some of the language being extremely similar to videos that Esther's done in the past? Because there are things in these videos like she fucks up and she says something like back of palm

instead of the back of your hand. You know, there's this thing about, you know, using a sponge and that being the technique, there's all of this stuff being thrown at you. And I feel like at some point, like you'll want to clear that up. Like you want people to understand, are you copying Esther's content?

Did you look at her video? And let me just be honest. I think that very often I have looked at things and taken inspiration. The question is, did you look at a video and take inspiration? No. I filmed that video months before

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. How are you even feeling as you go through this? Because it feels like there's a part of this that feels like petty internet drama. there's a part of it that feels deeply sort of layered and connected reputational to things that have happened in the past. Like, where are you at with this now? Are you regretful of the situation? Do you wish it went down? Have you spoken to Esther?

I reached out to Esther to have like a conversation, artist to artist, and she hasn't responded. I have had nothing but amazing interactions with Esther. So I'm actually really shocked that. Well, she's someone you admire. You admired her enough to, to, to, to, to, you know, to, you know, to, to, you know, to, think that she's great and you've loved what she's done in the past. Yeah, so I'm just like really how this all unfolded was just like honestly like really unfortunate. No, fair. I, listen, I think it's really important to have the conversation and I think as a business owner, I would be

lying if I said I hadn't found myself in similar situations and I have absolutely always tried to resolve them woman to woman. I mean, I had a situation not so long ago actually where we had made, you know, like, what do you call it, a sleeping mask in one of my brands. And the woman who owns this incredible, you know, the silk company that does the hairbands and the face masks and the pillowcases, she reached out to me and she said, hey, Emma, you have copied my mask. And I said, no, no, no, there's no way we have. And she said, yeah, girl, you have, because we have a proprietary way of padding the marks that protects your eyelashes. And I was like, let me check this out. I had a look. She holds a pattern for that. And I was like, oh, shit. Now, I always think that when

you're dealing with a situation like that, throwing your hands up and going, you know what, which is what I did, I phoned her up, I said, I think that I have X amount of thousands of these left. I'm going to take them off the website. I am so sorry. We will not continue with this product. And I don't know, maybe three months later, something came up where I needed this type of product and I called her up and we did a collaboration. And right now, there is a collaboration between our brand and her brand that's in the stores. And we figured it out. I had. have had countless things that have happened like that. And some that have ended up in worse situations and gone all the way through the kind of legal system and some that have, you know, ended less well.

But I feel like there's always a way to resolve so long as you're going, here's the thing I did and here's the accountability that I took. I'm sure that you feel a sense of accountability in all of this. So as a brand founder and as the brand being my name, I take full responsibility of everything that this brand does. And you look really sad about it. I'm like I'm sad that my I don't have like the right word, but I think I'm sad that like people are taking my integrity away from me when I can't even like defend myself, which I'm not trying to defend myself. You know, I never found a situation like this where there wasn't a way to make amends. And I think artist to artists, when two incredibly creative and talented people, you know,

I'm sure she doesn't feel so great about the situation either in a different way. But I'm pretty sure that if the intent is there to make amends that you'll be able to do that. And I hope that you find that because that's kind of what I'm seeing in your face in your eyes right now. I still respect her so much as an artist. I would love to do something with her. It is really unfortunate how this all unfolded. And I want to work with her.

I want to have a conversation with her. And I want to hear her and really understand because I don't live her life. What this has taught me, like I think it reminds me of the younger artists in myself. Of I think back now, like I am where I am. But if this happened to me as me as a younger artist and people not knowing who I am for something that like, or not being recognized for something that I contributed to, I would be upset. So it is especially important for me to allow people to feel seen just as much as I wish for. Yeah. I feel like your whole brand has really been built on that from the beginning. And so I genuinely hope that you can find the resolve.

I really, really do. You know, when I think about it and, you know, I experienced so much of this myself recently, like the internet is such a double-edged sword, right? Because you've essentially built your brand on your social media presence, on your incredible clients and your artistry, of course. But it's like what social is given you, it can also have this like other side, this kind of underbelly to it.

How are you at this point in your career as a 35-year-old man and thinking about the way that you turn up in an online environment, in a social environment, has that shifted and changed for you? It has not really shifted for me. I feel like I've had a very slow and steady career. I've never had like a shoot up to like stardom. I've been in the industry for a very long time. And I use social media for what it is.

I share my own personal experience. I share my artistry and I share my life and I'm going to continue to because I do it because I love it. There are perks and there are things that come with it, but I think it's where we are. It's where we are. It's part of it. What do you think the next chapter looks like for Patrick Tar Beauty? So even though the brand is seven years old,

there's so much that I want to do. There's so much like purpose-driven initiatives that I want to do. We launched like three years ago, Beauty That Brings You Out, when I was like with my team, like, concepting that, like, tears, like, ran down my face when, when I heard Beauty That Brings You Out, because I connect with it so much. Beauty has brought me out out of the closet. It's given me my voice.

It feels like it means a lot to you. Why do you feel so upset? I am a very empathetic person because, of my life experiences. And I feel like what people feel. And it just makes me sad that I contributed to something like that. I understand. You know, I think it's actually extremely reassuring

that something like this actually touches you like that. Because if you were sitting here, feeling totally fine and trying to move on, I think that that would be far worse. I think that you are somebody that has tried to understand the impact of what's happened, even if it wasn't your intention. And I can only say that I feel like, you know, you know I wrote a book recently, and lots of it was extremely loved and extremely well received.

And other parts of it were really not. And, you know, you immediately, for me, I felt extremely combative. And then I was like, oh shit, like let me listen to some of this stuff. And actually it's really amazing to be at the top of your game and have something kind of shake you to the core and have a moment of reflection. And you know what happens? You fucking grow from it.

And you know this because you've been bankrupt. You've had shit things in your life. You've had ups and downs. And when you are, you know, growing something, shit happens. Like it really, really does. The only thing that would be worse than now is if you didn't learn anything from it. That's what it comes down to.

And it feels to me like you are just going through the moment of learning for it. So good for you. Good. I'm glad you're fucking upset. And I think that you're amazing and you'll figure shit out. I'm so happy that you would even come and speak so honestly about it. Because a lot of people would have their fucking teams tell me, he doesn't want to talk about it. You can't ask this question.

You can't say that. And so I give you full credit for actually having the balls of sitting there and willing to take the questions. and have the conversation about it, because a lot of people shy away from it. So I'm grateful to you. When you think about where you are right now in your life and with this brand, what is it that you still aspire to? Like I said in the very beginning,

I've always been a dreamer. And something that I always like to say is, I like to dream with my eyes closed because I want to be able to create and see what others can. It's so poetic and beautiful. That's a good answer to that. It's really good. All right, I'm going to move you to some rapid fire

and get you the fuck out of here. Okay. All right, you ready? What's one product in your line that every woman needs right now? My lip balm for sure. What's one healthy habit or routine that you swear by?

But I feel like I have a lot, but... Give me them old, dumb gate keep. Just trying to get myself to the gym. How often are you in the gym? When I am in Los Angeles, at least like four or five days a week, when I'm traveling maybe two. What is the most underutilized makeup hack?

Probably setting your lip liner with powder. Setting your lip liner? So it stays longer. What is a book that changed your life? I'm going to be honest. I don't read that much. I need to start. I actually love that honesty.

That is really good. I'll give you my book. You're supposed to say start with yourself, Patrick. Start with yourself. That's it. Patrick, thank you so much. You're amazing. Thank you.

I appreciate you beyond. Thank you for having me. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emagreed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Greed. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer, sound design and engineering by Bill Shorts.

Angela Paluso is our Booker, original music. by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetek and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Holman, Catherine Bale. Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my team's at the lead company and WME. Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mekyll, Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Greed.

Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire, A-S-P-I-R-E with Emma Greed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emigreed.com. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different.

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