Aspire with Emma Grede - The Aspire Playbook: Mark Cuban’s Day-1 Blueprint for Startup Success and How AI is Changing Entrepreneurship Forever

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Why do most startups fail, and how can you avoid it? In this episode of the Aspire podcast, Mark Cuban breaks down exactly what new founders get wrong, how to take an idea from nothing to something, and the critical Day 1 steps every entrepreneur must get right. He also explains why mastering AI isn’t optional anymore and how it’s completely changing how businesses are built. Whether you’re just starting out or scaling up, Mark offers raw, tactical advice on sales, mindset, money, and how to build a business that works. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am so excited to share my debut book with you or Start With Yourself, which is available now. You might have seen the headlines, you might have seen the social, but this book is exactly what I intended, a conversation that will make you think, and it's a blueprint for anyone who wants success without the toxic positivity. Start with yourself is about self-leadership, because wherever I go, women ask me how I got to where I am. But what you really want to know is how you can get there. So I'm doing what I do best, sharing and navigate keeping what's works for me in the hope that you can borrow from a philosophy that has served me so well. The truth is I'm not an expert. I've just lived it. I've made the mistakes.

I've had the failures and I've learned what actually works. It takes a lot. It takes the most. And this book is for anyone who's tired of feeling like a passenger in their own life. It's about taking responsibility for your thinking, managing your emotions and getting clear on your ideas and then knowing your next step. It's about picking yourself up after failure, being accountable, but also forgiving yourself, pushing for wins, and never, ever apologising for your ambition. It's also about challenging the rules that you've been told. There is no perfect time. Balance isn't the goal. Alignment is and there's nothing wrong with you wanting more. I'm precisely sure that the reason I've been so successful is so I can

share it with you. Start with yourself. My debut book is available now. Visit emigre.com to purchase the book, also available on Amazon, your favorite audio platforms and all good bookshops. Today's guest is a true icon of modern entrepreneurship, but not just for the reasons you think. You know Mark Cuban as the billionaire tech founder, bold investor and owner of the Dallas Mavericks and a beloved voice on Shark Tank for over 15 seasons. But he's also someone who's always been laser focused on how things work, how to fix what's broken and how to create better from the ground up. Mark's hard. Mark's hard. hustle begun selling garbage bags at just 12 years old, and he worked his way to a $5.7 billion

exit. He spent decades building businesses, investing in founders, disrupting everything from media to medicine, most recently founding cost-bust drugs to challenge big pharma and bring real transparency to healthcare. But now he stepped off the shark tank stage, and he sold his controlling stakes in the Mavs, rethinking what success, legacy and time actually mean. In this conversation, we go all the way that to his childhood. His first big business win and the mindset that shaped him. We talk about what it really takes to start a business from day one, the myths about entrepreneurship and what he's teaching his three kids about ambition, money and meaning. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building.

Fit for your ambition for Citizens Bank. Studies and play. Come together on our a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College deal, everything you need, to study and play with

select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 premium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at Windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last,

ends June 30th, turns at AKA.m.m. slash college PC. All right, Mark, I'm so happy to have you here. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. No, I'm excited too. I couldn't be more excited.

Obviously, you and I met on Shark Tank, which was, I don't know, a couple of years back now, I had the distinct pleasure of sitting next to you for three seasons. Yeah, they always put the rookies next to me. Yes, they do. Well, I asked as well. Did you? Oh, good.

Well, it was just a very good use of my time if during the pitches, or between the pitches, I could just, like, sit and quiz you on things, which I did. But obviously, you've stepped away after so many years. What was it? 14 seasons. 15. 15 seasons. I mean, that's kind of unbelievable. How did you even know that it was time to step away?

I mean, I've been missing my son's birthdays every year because we shot a pod right at his birthday. I missed them going back to school, you know, finishing school. And, you know, it was always, okay, we can't do this until dad's done with Shark Tank. And it was just the time. You know, my kids are 15, 18, and 21. And, you know, my oldest is going to graduate from college next year. I just don't want to be in a position where like, okay, I'm going to Shark Tank. they're gone and I missed a lot of it. And so that was one big piece, just spending more time with family and just, it was just time. You know, you can only do the same thing for so long. But it's interesting because you hear so many stories about women that give up certain things

in work for the family, but not so many men talk about that and the trade-offs that come along with like working in that way. So it's kind of interesting to hear you admit it in a way. Yeah, I guess. I guess I never really looked at it that way. It's just like, you know, when I look at all the things in my life that are important to me, that's at the top. You know, and that wasn't always the case. You know, I wasn't one of these people who balanced work and home. You know, I was still a grinder, you know, and when I was trying to climb, it was just like, let's go, go, go, go, go. And, you know, let's get into the next chapter. Let's get to the next level, whatever it was. And, you know, you know what it's like, you have young kids, right? And they're real people,

but they're not real people. Yes. Right. They miss you, but they don't know that you're gone, really, and they're happy when you're home. It's harder as they get, As they get older, they have their own lives and they want to do their own thing. And it's harder to insert yourself. It's like, I don't want you there, dad, you know. And then when that hits, that hits home. Why did you stay for so long? It kind of habit because, but more importantly, it sent a message,

particularly to kids, that the American Dream was alive and well, that, you know, you saw all the people, you know, that came in, Erica from Limbitts, you know. It's like, how do you get from there to hear? and the example that it sets, all these things we're talking about when you get to see somebody who's doing it that went from just idea, didn't have anything. Totally. Boom. I say this all the time.

It's like you cannot be what you don't see. And for me that, to me, it's so true because you have to be able to have, you know, a representation of people that feel similar to you. Yes. That you can see yourself in. And every time I did that show to me. It cannot be what you don't see. Isn't it so true? That should be the tagline for Shark Tank.

It really should be. It really should be. Do you feel like you made a lot of sacrifices? Have you been able to kind of, I guess, level with yourself on the sacrifices that you have made? Yeah, I mean, I don't look in them as sacrifices along the way because I love what I do. I love what I did. I love the path that I took. But at some point, I had to be honest with myself that my kids are smart.

You know, they're going to do their own thing. You know, we raised them to be independent. and they're going to leave the house. And they're not going to give a shit. You know? That's it. They'll go home for holidays. Then that'll like kill me, you know.

And so I want to catch as many of those moments as I can. Maybe when they're all gone, living their own lives, have their own kids and all that, things will change. But for now, that was the bad. That's a really, it's a really good decision. It feels like a sound one. I want to go back to the beginning. Are you okay with it? I'm at ease with it.

I mean, I will miss you from my TV screen. Right. I mean, I feel like you were the reason that people watch that show. I don't think so. I mean, you're one of the big reasons. You must know that about yourself. You were a huge draw on the show. I don't feel like anyone gives as good, honest advice as you do.

And so I feel like you're a massive draw on that. Yeah, I appreciate that. But I always thought it was the entrepreneurs, right? Everybody played the game. You know, would I buy that company? Would I invest? You know, what do I think about the company? Will I buy the product?

And then, you know, I would talk my talk and do my thing, which I had fun doing, right? But yeah, I still think, you know, the show will go on because it's about the entrepreneur. No doubt, no doubt. I just feel like the advice that you gave was the stuff that people was writing down. Yeah, you know, and I always tried to give good advice, right? You did. Because I wanted, you know, their whole life, you know what it's like, right? You start with nothing and it's just like it's constant fear.

You know, you might be fired up about your business and you might love it and you might, you know, in your mind, you have that path you're taking. But you're scared shitless half the time. Yeah. You know, one mistake. over. And so when they get to that carpet and they're one of, you know, the thousands of people who applied and they get there, you know, if I have experience that could help them, I'm going to give it to it. 100%. I always felt the same like that. If somebody has made it here, the very least I could do was be honest. Yes. And tell them what my actual opinion is. Yeah.

And they can at least leave with something, even if they don't leave with an investment. Because that's the goal, right? Even if it's not a check, right? Because that's the thing about a shark investing in you. It's not just the check. You know? there's other value and other value add that you can bring. And you were always really good about that. When they brought somebody that was in your wheelhouse, I was like, I'm ready. Just let Emma do her thing, right?

You were always like, do this one. I mean, Mark said, I should do it. I know, because you're good, right? It's just like, I can see the look on the face and they're staring right at you. Right, like, no, they do. When they want you, they're like, right in your ears and you're like, oh, it's me. I'm the chosen one. And then sometimes you're like, I ain't doing this.

I don't care how much you eyeball me. I'm like, Mark, you doing this? Because that's the hardest part of Shark Tank is going out. I know. It's the hardest part. It really is. And also you feel, you know,

I'm such an emotional girl, but I really felt you can see how nervous they are, how much they're prepared. And to walk out with seemingly nothing, like, it's a lot. Well, you know, the visibility is always good. And some of the companies end up better, right? Because someone else comes in and makes them a better deal

or buys them, whatever. But, yeah, you always had this vibe, which was like, I know your business. You know, I could help you. Yes. The question is, will I? Will I? Will I?

I mean, you helped a lot of people. We're going to get into that. But before we talk any more about Shark Tank, I have to go back to the beginning because you are such a fascinating person. And while I was doing the research for this particular episode, I mean, I learned a lot about it. I thought I was a fan and I knew everything. No apologies needed. I was like, wow, he has done a lot the most. I really want to understand a little bit more about your upbringing and where you were from.

and also just to understand, like, what gave you the entrepreneurial bug? Like, who did you learn that from? Yeah, I mean, I didn't learn it from anybody. It was more my dad in particular and my mom just saying, look, if you want something, you got to earn it. You know, you got to go do it from the time I was a kid. I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My dad did upholstery on cars.

So if you had a rip in your car seat, that's where you take it. My mom did odd jobs, never had the same job for very long. You know, good middle class family. and but it was always like you want a new pair of basketball shoes, you go get a job. So I would like buy and sell trading cards. I was Michael Rubman before Michael Rubin was Michael Rubin. You know, I had Michael Rubin on the show. It was like an attack.

But it's interesting that you say you were Michael Rubin before Michael Rubin because you have a very similar path in so many ways, right? He did his own thing, right? That's why I respect Michael. And so, but anyway, so I would buy and sell trading cards to all my neighbors and everything. one day my dad and his buddies were playing poker, probably drunk out of their mind, right? And I came in and I was like,

Dad, I want to get a new bear basketball shoes. He looks at me, he says, those shoes on your feet work. When you have a job, you can get whatever you want. I'm like, I'm 12 years old. How am I going to get a job? And one of his buddies pops up and goes, hey, I've got all these garbage bags and you can sell them. There are boxes of garbage bags.

I got hundreds of them. Why don't you go sell them? I'm like, can't I dad? He's like, cool. And so I just went door to door selling garbage bags. And it was like, hi. My name is Mark. Do you use garbage bags?

And everybody does, by the way. Everybody needs garbage bags. I'll never forget they cost me $3 a box. I sold them for six, you know, and I would drag them down to my neighbors. The world's first garbage bag route for, you know, a year or whatever. And I got my tennis shoes and I was happy. But once you learn that you can sell and once you learn you have confidence in talking to people, you know, you always have the ability to make money.

Yes, you do. I mean, and obviously understanding that from your parents, a young age must have been pretty formative. What else did they teach you? Um, you know, my dad was gone at 7 a.m. and home at 6 and, you know, he don't want me to follow his path, basically. You know, he would take me where he worked and, you know, I'd get five bucks for sweeping the floor and cleaning things, not because he wanted me to make some money or whatever, but it was more, he wanted me to see how backbreaking it was. You know, he lost his eye in an accident. He did. Yeah, you know, and just it was backbreaking work. And, and he wanted me to go to college. I mean,

neither of my parents had gone to, even though my mom when she was 50 went back, but neither of my parents had gone to college. My mom was 20 when I was born. I mean, it was just the prototypical, you know, Pittsburgh. Yeah, different times. And from that moment on, I was a hustler, you know. You know, I was the whole prototypical grinding all my life where there was selling baseball cars, garbage bags, magazines, door to door.

Coins, stamps are red, all that stuff. I would go to a stamp show, right? Start with 50 cents. and leave with $50. Amazing. You know, once you figure all, you know, this is how markets work and you can sell. But you had it, right? It's like, when did the hustle turn into a thirst for entrepreneurialism?

After I realized I was a lousy employee and I was getting fired or couldn't stand it, you know, then I had no choice. It's always a signal, isn't it? You're like, okay. They're like, see ya, right? You know, when it really hit was, I started, I moved down to Dallas. I was living six guys in a three-bedroom apartment, sleeping on the floor. and I'd gotten a job first as a bartender, then I got a day job working at a company called

Your Business Software selling technology. And, you know, I didn't really know technology at the time, but I was like, I'll read the manuals, I'll do whatever. And it was going along great. You know, I was making money, relatively speaking. And then I had a chance to get a big commission, right? So I had a chance to pick up. What was a big commission back then?

$1,500. Because that was enough for me to move out of the shithole I lived in because I was sleeping on the floor. Get away from the six. In a three bedroom apartment, right? And so I was like, okay, this will get me out. And so I call my boss and I'm like, okay, I'm going to go pick up this check. Because I'm supposed to sweep the floor, open up the retail store.

He's like, no, I need you at the store. I like, Michael, Michael, you make it. I got you covered, right? And he goes, no, I need you to be in the store. So I'm like, okay, I need this commission check. If I go pick up a check for 15 grand, the store needed it, he needed it. I show up, he fires me. Ah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm done there. I almost sound like, okay, I got to control my own destiny. I know I can sell. I know I can do this stuff. So I had a prospect, a company called Architectural Lighting, and I went to them, and I said, look, I'm broke, right?

I don't have the money for this software. How old are you at this point? 24. Okay. So I've been through jobs and bounced. And so 24, almost 24. And so I went to this company, Architectural Lighting, I said, this software that you want is cost $250.

If you give me $500, so I have something to live off. for a couple of weeks. If it doesn't work, I'll walk your dog. I'll sweep your floor. I'll wash your car. Whatever it takes. And it worked. And then I went same, did something similar for the next one and the next one and the next one. And that was the company Micro Solutions. And I went seven years without a vacation. But eight, you know, eighth year in, we sold it to H&R block. And that was my first exit. Yeah. That's so crazy. Was that your first big yes? Like, was that the moment where you're like, I understand that I am good at something and I have a path here? Yes, yeah, because then once I got into tech, that was it. It was over because I loved learning it.

You know, because the way I looked at it, because I didn't take computer science. So I was like, okay, I get this because I like to learn this stuff. And even to this minute, like putting in time to learn technology, it's fun to me. Like to me, like my brain just clicks with it and I get excited about it. Okay, I'm learning this new. And when you're learning stuff like that and you have, you know, a sales background and a process background, you can start applying everything that you know to, like Shark Tank Company, right? A Shark Tank Company walks in in a minute.

I know exactly how they make money and what they do and what technology works and doesn't. And, you know, that allowed me to be successful at MicroSolutions. After that, I bought and sold stock, started a hedge fund and sold it within nine months. We were just killing it, you know? And so that's when I knew that I was on a path. And what did you learn from Micro Solutions? Because that was like a different time from a technology perspective, right? It was brand new and almost kind of like a wild, wild west in a way, right?

Like, what did you actually figure out that no one else had figured out at that? What separated us, I figured out really early on that it was one thing to sell a computer. It was another thing even to write software. I taught myself how to code to put on. You taught yourself how to code? How did you do that at that time? I would spend hours. Like, I remember I would have to write, I would walk into a company and say, okay, you know,

this will help you become more profitable, more productive, more profitable, better competitive advantage, right? The whole skill. And I'll write the software for you it'll cost you X amount of dollars. No matter how long it takes me, it'll be X amount of dollars. And so, you know, the pressure was on me

and I would find myself, you know, I'd look up. I literally would have a bucket of ribs. It was gross. Bucat or ribs. And like towels. And I was just like, I gained like 20 pounds. Chop on these ribs.

But I looked up and it'd be 20 hours later, 25 hours later, because I was concentrating so hard, I lost track of time. And, you know, And so I was able to take all that I learned. And then what I realized that really separated us was connecting PCs together with brand new. You know, and back then people would have a floppy disk and they'd walk around, right?

You know, or they couldn't even connect their printers. Now that seems insane. But I would go into these companies. I'm going to show you how I can connect all these printers and all these computers together. You can share data, become more profitable, more and I'll write software to make it easier. And then I knew I won. Have you always had that ability to like take, you know, to really concentrate and focus and double down and take in and absorb information? Were you that type of student?

Yeah. Yes and no, depends on the topic. You know, film sports. Yeah. If it's something you enjoyed, you could do it. And once I realized I like tech, because I had no idea. I had literally no idea. But it's interesting that you say it was fun.

Like, you know, it's like it's something just like sports that you enjoyed. You were just gobbling up with the real idea. all the information. Right? But that's it. You were like, it was fun for you. You were like,

I'm doing it. To this day, like to this minute, like if I have an extra minute, like now I'm learning all I can about AI. Because there's some 15 year old kid that's just glomming on to this like it's second nature. And if I don't know it,

he's going to kick my ass or she's going to kick my ass. And if I do know it, I'm going to kick their ass, right? I have no doubt. The start with yourself tour kicks off on April 15th in New York City. Tickets are on sound now at emigree.com. I want to talk about broadcast.com. Obviously, it was an early internet radio startup,

which feels like a top of oxymor now. Yeah, I mean, it was the first streaming. It was the first streaming company, period. But that was a massive turning point for you in your business life. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, my buddy, Todd Wagner from Indiana, we were having lunch at California Pizza Kitchen. And he was like, there's got to be a way we can listen to Indiana basketball down here in Dallas.

Because at the time... Always solving for sports, Mark. Yeah, right? Yeah. Because at the time, somebody in Bloomington, Indiana, had to put a radio next to a speaker phone in their office, and then we would have a speaker phone down in Dallas, and that's how we listened to games. No, why it was not.

Yes. You know, and now the internet was happening, and Mr. Geek here was like, okay, I know what networking's all about because that's what microsolutions did. Let me figure something out because if it works, you know, there's no distance. There's no time. You can watch anything or listen to anything anywhere. So we started as a company called AudioNet in 1990. And nobody, back then we called it internet broadcasting.

And nobody was streaming. Nobody. And we're like, oh, shit, okay. Let's see what we can do. So I went to a local radio station, KLIF, and literally we connected a eight-hour VCR to their board, right, and took the output of their radio and recorded it on eight-hour VCR tapes, took it back to my house, encoded it, put it, then put it on our website, AudioNet. And I would go on all these forums and Prodigy and CompuServe and the internet.

And I would say, hey, if you live in Dallas and if you're from Dallas and you want to know about Dallas sports and Dallas News, you have to do all these five steps, but then you can do it. And then first day, you know, 10 people. Next day, 100 people. Next, you know, month, 1,000 people. And then we started adding more and more radio stations. And then, you know, probably six months later, we were able to do live. Do you know that that was going to change your life?

Were you like, this is the beginning? Yes, because I remember having a meeting with everybody and saying, if this works the way I think it'll work, this company's worth $5 billion. You knew that. Without any doubt in my mind, because it changed everything. Everybody thought I was a moron, right? Dude, we'll turn on the television. Yeah. Dude, I just have to turn on the radio.

But I'm like, in an office, you can't just do that. Like, there's no televisions here. There's no radio. Well, it's different now. But back then there weren't. And so it was the only media device on. your desktop and they had more bandwidth. So like people would listen to Cubs games, people would listen to soccer, football from overseas, right? It was the only way they can get it. And back then,

the laws were different. So I could just walk into Best Buy and buy 200 CDs and encode them and just put it on our jukebox and people could listen to everything. We had, you know, 400 plus radio stations. We played Christmas music on loop all year long. I mean, just all the stuff that you see on Spotify. And then we got to video, all the stuff you see on YouTube. We were doing in 95, 96, 97, 98, 99 until we sold to Yahoo in 2000. Which is insane. Insane. I mean, the idea that you've sold that company to Yahoo for how much?

$5.7 billion in stock. So you were right. This is worth $5 billion. Yeah. It really was. It turned out. Yeah. You're like, Kaching.

Amazing. Did you have a bunch of partners at that point? Well, we had gone public. Right. And so we went public in July of 1998. And at the time, the Broadcast.com IPO was the biggest first day leap in the history of the stock market, which was so cool. That's so cool. Because like the minute, we went public and then the stock market closed and it went from $18 up to $72 and then finished at $62.75.

And all of a sudden, like, I was worth $300 million. So we went straight to a bar and we turned on. Oh, yeah. And so we had them turn on like CNN and all the networks. And every time they mentioned broadcast.com and the IPP. we took a shot. And we couldn't see, yeah. Oh, my God.

Completely smashed. And then we had to get back to work the next day because, like, I told everybody. Yeah, well, you've got to keep that stock price rising. All these people trusted us. You know, they put their hard-earned money and it worked out. So take me inside that Yahoo deal. Like, what did you learn? What did it teach you?

Well, there's a bunch of pieces there, right? We brought them in as an investor for only a million dollars, like right after the IPO. A million dollars. That was it. Yeah, it was a tiny smidgen for the company. But we wanted access to the Yahoo website, and we just wanted the connection. So that was like a valuable part. It wasn't necessarily about the finance.

No, no, it wasn't a financial investor. It was strategic. Yeah. And so they were a strategic investor. And then all of a sudden, you know, as our, you know, people that all, they just did internet radio. No, like we invented all these things that were different. And I wish I'd gotten patents.

Yeah, it just kills me. because it's so funny because I've posted it on social. I found an old letter that our patent attorney had written said, here's all the patents you can apply for. And back then I'm like, we're too busy. We're getting ready to sell the company. And like everything that happens online. Which is so crazy because whenever I hear this story about you,

like you only think about the success. You only think about what he built this company, put tight things together. It would have been worth. Somebody told me it probably is worth $10 trillion. dollars. Like the whole... Does that haunt you? Does that bother you at all? No, because I'm really well off, so I'm okay.

You're like, I'm good. There's a lot of shit I've missed along the way that I'd have more money. You're good. In some respects, it pisses me out because people just think it was internet radio. Yeah. Right? And if I'd got... Oh, yeah, you don't get the credit that you should have for everything that came out of that company. Yeah, we started the whole thing. I mean, like, literally, if Yahoo hadn't screwed it up, there'd be no... There'd be no Spotify. There'd be no YouTube. But, Mark, was it really about...

the time, like you're not being able to actually, like, go out and get those patterns? Or did you actually understand what you were creating at that point? I knew exactly what we were creating and the value for sure. But you just couldn't go out and doing it. Because we were different than everybody else. We were kicking everybody's ass. I mean, we were a top 10 website, literally. Yeah, I mean, we had millions of users, millions of people were streaming.

Like, you know, we were, you know, doing video online that nobody else could do or had done. It was fun. And how big was the company? How many people at that? that point. 330. Yeah, but you have to focus, right? Even with 300 people, it's like you've got your things that you're trying to achieve.

Yeah. And you have to focus and double down on those things. You didn't have time to go out and think about all the ancillary stuff. Yeah, right? It was like, we have to win. It's a competitive business. And so we have to stay focused on being the best streamer, you know, whatever the type of content.

But things like, you know, inserted ads, things like, you know, pop up video ads in front of content, all these things that people do today. We were doing. And it's been 30 fucking years. years. It's insane. It actually is insane to even think about. So you actually, like there's so much of what we take for granted now that you guys just invented at that point. I can't even believe that. I wonder, so when you get this Yahoo deal, did it turn out as you had expected? No. I mean, so two pieces. One, we sold in stock, right, which is not cash, as you know. And so I have, no, it's

not. No, it's not. Because back then in the internet stock market, stocks were going up, stocks were going down, I'm like, I'm a billionaire, you know, I like it. And I don't want to risk it. I don't need more money. I need to protect what I got. And so I did this thing called a caller where I sold out of the money calls on the stock that we got from Yahoo stock. And I bought puts to protect the downside from the money.

I got from selling it. Okay, explain that really slowly for us that might not understand it. So a share stock. Yeah. Okay. Share stock. that we got Yahoo stock. And we sold what is known as calls.

Call on a share of stock gives somebody that you sell it to the right to buy that share of stock at whatever the price. Like a predetermined price down the road. So if Yahoo stock was 100 and I sold it, you can buy this at 120 and you pay me some amount of money for that. That's selling a call. And I took that money and I bought a put, which is the opposite side.

It protects the downside. It says if Yahoo stock calls. You smart ass over there. Yeah. So if Yahoo stock falls below the level I bought the 100, you have to buy it from me at that price. You know, and I was like, yeah. You're such a clever dick. Yeah. It crashed.

Of course it crashed. This is it. The whole, you know, internet stock, you know, bubbled burst. And so I actually ended up making some more money of that. So that was part one. That worked out fine. But then Yahoo, you know, when that internet stock bubble burst, Yahoo's board of directors just freaked out because their stock had gone from hundreds to tens, you know, or less. And they're like, okay, we got to cut expenses. And so the streaming side was,

you know, huge mistake, but that's part of what they cut. Wow. And talk to me about your relationship to money as a founder because I just feel like a founder's journey is so uneven. It's like you've got nothing, you've got nothing, you've got nothing. Then hopefully you get something and maybe it's too much and you don't know what to do with it. Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. Like my attitude is if you're happy when you're broke, you'll be happy when you're rich. if you were miserable when you were broke, there's no amount of money that's going to change you from being miserable. And so, you know, when I was sleeping on the floor, I still was having fun, you know. You strike me as the type of guy that was broken happy. Yes, I was. You're just happier

now. I wasn't happy to be broke. That's different. Right, but I was going to have fun no matter what. And so, you know, when I sold microsolutions, I ended up with like $2 million. And I was 29 years old, give or take. And so I bought a lifetime pass on American Airlines for $125,000. That's a great deal. Oh, my God. It's a great deal. And my own mission, because in my mind, I was retired. And my only mission at 29. At 29, yeah. My only mission in life was to party like a rock star. Because all I had to do, I had this card that I could walk up to American Airlines and just show it. And I was actually living in L.A. not far from here. And I was like, okay, I'd go out to the clubs. find a new friend. Let's go to Vegas. Let's go to Vegas. Let's go to London. Let's go wherever.

And you used it? Do you get your money's worth out of that 125? Oh, yes, I did. And it was lifetime past. You can't just still use that now. I could, but I gave it to my dad. And when my dad passed, I gave it to a friend. Oh, that's so lovely. That's so you, Mark, to do that. But I'm sure you got your use out of it in the interim. So back to the money. So you get $2 million when you're about 29. the next big chunk of money doesn't come until you've sold. Well, no, not right. So I took that $2 million.

And initially I told my stockbroker who was a buddy mine, I want you to invest like a 60-year-old. I want you to put it in bonds because I want to live off of this. Interest rates were higher. I want to live off of this for a while. You had a sense, though, that $2 million you'd kind of made it at that point? Well, yes. Or you knew you were going to make loads more money in your mind.

I didn't. I didn't. I was willing to live like a student for a long time. But what came along was I talked to my first. broker and he would ask me all these questions about stuff I knew because of micro solutions. And then I'd see these people who worked, it was Goldman Sachs, worked for Goldman Sachs, go on CNBC or whatever it was back then and say exactly what I said. And the stock would go up or down. And my buddy was like, you know this stuff better than our guys do. You should be buying and selling

these stocks. So I'm like, okay, I will. And I just crushed it. I mean, crushed it. I turned that two million. I don't even know what it ended up being 15, 20. million, right? And it was just like, okay. And then we started broadcast and that allowed me to keep going. How do you think that your relationship with money shaped your early decisions as an entrepreneur? Oh, 100%. Right. I mean, I was that kid that drove around and looked at the big houses and listened to motivational tapes in the car. Yeah. I used to drive around looking at all the big houses. That was such a thing for me. Yes. 100%. I'm like, what do these people do? How did they get there? what is it that they have that I don't? What is their motivation? And that was my motivation. And so I always

wanted to make more money, but I always wanted to use my time first, right? Time was the most valuable asset. That's kind of what my dad and my parents taught me because, you know, if you're grinding the same job and, you know, not really making money, you know, my dad never made more than $40,000 and you're stuck. You know, you can live a great life. It's not like you can't really enjoy your life and have a great family like we did. but, you know, there were things we couldn't do, you know, things, you know, that, hey, dad, can we do this or can I, no. No, it doesn't work that way. Yeah.

And you get a job and you can do it. And so, you know, I wanted to really value my time first. And then as I started earning more money and then it was like, okay, what is it that I can use this for? And it was like, have fun, you know. And then, you know, but I still, it was still like, okay, I need to save this forever more. And then when we hit it with the billions, then everything changed because it was like, okay, what will change my life immediately? So it was like I bought a house, you know, sight unseen. It was a $25 million house.

No, you didn't. Honestly. Who spends $25 million? I didn't spend $25. So what the deal was, was a guy worked with. Of course you did it. You did a deal. I did a deal right.

So this guy, damn. How I remember this news is there. I don't know, right? But he owned this company, never sold a share stock. It was a public company, never sold a share stock, and then the company cratered. And so he spent three years and $25 million building this house, more than three years, lived there eight months.

And my friend said, look, it's going to go to bankruptcy and you can get it for $12 million. And he showed me a picture. I'm like, fuck it. Done. Done. There's a deal. No, you don't live in that house.

I live in that same house. Get out of it. 27 years later. What a fantastic investment. That was your house. That was your meant to be. That was because it was just an amazing house, right? Like literally until I got married and had kids, there were rooms I'd never been in.

There's still rooms. You couldn't even make your way around it. There is still rooms. That says a lot about you and who you are, though, because I feel like you are just so comfortable in who you are that once you've got your thing, that's it. You're just going to stay and stick with it. Yeah, it was just like doing our parents. I had no furniture. I had like one couch and a big screen TV. And it was so big. Like, we would play football and with a ball ballroom. And I literally had a basketball hoop in the ballroom of the house. And so I could just

get some shots up. It was like, it was so much fun. I think the audience that I have really wants to understand how do you get started, right? Like if you have an idea or if you've got something that you believe in strongly, like how do you just get out of the gate? And I think that, you're, you're, But really what I want to ask you is almost what matters more. Is it the idea or is it how you execute something? So if you would have asked me this question six months ago, I would give you a completely different answer. Well, I'm so glad I got you now.

Yeah, right? Because of AI. Like literally this morning, I got a question from a kid in high school. And I, you know, I get so many emails. And every now and then. You are unbelievable answering emails. Well, but somebody I like, right? I'm going to respond immediately.

Thanks. But like, every now and then I'll be, okay, it's from a kid. Let's see what the question is, right? And he said, well, same question. How do you get started? And I was like, okay, first thing you have to do is learn AI. You have, whether it's chat GPT, Gemini, perplexity, clod, you've got to spend tons and tons and tons of time,

just learning how it works and how to ask a question. Is that what you're doing at the moment? You're spending time. So talk me through that. What does that look like? If you're a founder right now and you want to just learn AI, what are you doing? Just asking a question. Just asking it questions.

And trying everything that comes out that's new. It's like the early days when I first got started. Every day there was a new technology. Every day there was new software. Every day the PCs and the networks were getting faster. And bandwidth was getting faster. So it was just a constant, oh my God, oh my God. And AI is the same way now.

What do you say to someone who says, yeah, but I don't like AI. I don't want any more technology in my life. Like what is the answer? You're fucked. Basically. That's it. It's like do or die. Yeah.

That's like saying, you know, back, the day, people, I don't need to use a PC. I don't need to use the internet. I don't need a cell phone, you know, Wi-Fi. And those businesses died. Done. Yeah. And there's so many examples of that, right? Brands that just didn't transition, didn't update, didn't do what they needed to do. And they died a day. It didn't go bop onto the internet, didn't figure out, you know, it's just like all the stuff you have to learn, right, for Great American Skims. Yes. It's never-ending. It's a never-ending competition. And now your business is harder than it's ever been. The hardest, the hardest and changes every day.

Every millisecond, you know, if you saw the stuff that came from Google, right, where people are just typing in things and creating, like, great content. I'm real. No. I mean, I was at the Google Summit last week where they were launching. So when they showed you all this, right? I mean, it was. They wanted you to see all this.

You can't even fathom that what you're looking at isn't real. I'm like, wait a minute, what is so good about this? And they're like, well, it's not like they have five, six years anymore. It is like, crazy. The realest stuff ever. Now, the good news, so there's multiple parts to all this, right? If you're an entrepreneur or want to be an entrepreneur, and you start playing with it to get a sense of how it works, how to prompt,

it becomes like a mentor. It becomes like having, you know, an entire staff of a thousand business professors. That's how you're thinking about it. Yeah. Because you still have to be smart to do it. Like, I, like, if you would say to me, Mark, I need a commercial for skims. Like, I can, I don't know how to use all the technology. I can type in prompts, but I don't have the creative side of it.

I don't know, like, okay, you know, if you're using a 35 millimeter camera and this type of light, you need this type of aperture and you need this type of angle and you need to, you know, you want these. So like nuance of expertise is still really important. Oh, it's more important. And the more you're giving AI, the more you're getting out of it, right? Like, that's my limited understanding. It's as good as what you give it. Correct.

Now, it's going to come up with stuff that you couldn't even fathom. It's that good. And it's the ultimate time hack because now, okay, edit that together. Let's see what it looks like. And then you look at the dailies and you're like, okay, that looks good. Okay, let's, you know, shoot a little bit more and see what we get. Now you don't got to shoot shit. You ain't got to do anything.

Right? But you still got to be able to know how to edit it. Yes. You still got to know how to tell a story. And your ability to tell a story now changes dramatically. So before it'd be like, okay, here's my 15 second, here's my 30s, here's my 60s, right? Maybe we'll do something long form. We'll see because on TikTok people, you know, like this or don't like that.

And, you know, let's see where the fit is and what the algorithm supports. Now you just crank out 50 different things in six minutes. And then you get to ABC test it and see or run it through. But you still need to have quality qualified people to say, that's good. That's not. no substitute for actual humans, but you're just like, it's much less. So you're thinking about AI as in that this is a replacement for some level of creative output, for some level of the number of stuff that you might need. So it's almost like shrinking everything that's needed in the

beginning. It's no different than like CGI has changed over the last 30 years. You know, using digital, you went from analog cameras to digital cameras, so you can use your phone and it's 4K and then it'll be 8K, right? So there's things that you didn't, you don't do now that you did five years ago to create content. And so it's just one more move forward. But for starting a business, like you can say, okay, here's what I want to do. I have this idea where I want to sell these cops that say aspire by Emma Greed. I want to do a business around this. Write me a business plan. And then you get it in a minute and you say, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. Update this, this, this, this, this. Okay. All right, now that you've read my business plan, chat GPT or Gemini,

put together a website, design, boom. A minute later, you're looking at the first proof of your website. I mean, to me right now, there's no better time to be a startup entrepreneur because you have an expert in your pocket. You go to chat GPT or whatever, Gemini, and just ask it. But I love that this stage of your journey, Mark, you are using that. Like, as accomplished as you are, as successful as you are, even you are starting over. And it gets weird sometimes too. I'm going to take a picture of your phone. Like, what apps do you have that I don't?

Oh, I've got everything. It's all on there. Who's teaching you about it? Like, are you just, is it all self-discovery? Or are you like engaging with? I need a. Is Sam Altman on speed dial? No, no, no, just myself.

Okay. I don't, you know, it's fun, more fun to learn. Okay, I need a business plan for a mug that says aspire on it. that I want to sell through Skims. Write me a business plan and the best approach to take it to them, okay? All right. Let's map this out. First off, the main idea is a sleek, stylish mug branded with the word Aspire, sold in collaboration with Skims, leveraging their brand power and audience. One, executive summary. You're launching a premium mug line that complements Skim's lifestyle brand. The mug embodies motivation and minimalism, aligning with Skim's aesthetic,

Okay, that's enough for right now. Just write it up for me and I'll read it later, okay? Unbelievable. All of these things that used to take weeks and weeks and weeks and copywriters and editors and graphic designers and specialists. And you're meeting with your team to go through, what do you think? What do you think? And everybody's always got to give their opinion because otherwise they don't feel valued, right?

And that takes time, that takes energy. And so if you can consolidate it now, do you still need people who can copyright? But yes, but those people need to be. Yes, you just need far less. Right. Well, it's just you need fewer. but maybe not, right? Maybe you just, those,

but those copywriters have to learn how to use prompts in AI. And they have to know which AI will take those prompts and give you better output that's suitable for your businesses. And then the editors would be able to take that video that it creates

or the script for the video first and know how to use it within an AI structure like VO, which is the video creation, right? And so because if you don't know how to translate the script into what VO uses, and it's changing every day now,

whatever comes next, next, next, next, next, then you won't have a job. But if you have those skills as an editor and a copywriter and you know how to translate them into AI so that your prompts are really, really good and quick and efficient, you'll have a job for life. Of course. So someone's starting a business now needs to learn AI.

All of it. All of it. Gobble all the information up. Day one, learn everything about AI. And like I told this kid this morning, read books about entrepreneurs. Because there's still the heart. The AI isn't going to deal with your heart and mind because knowing what the grind is and the work and the fear.

Because I can get AI to write a business plan for this or anything for that matter. But if I'm not willing to do the work, if I don't understand that I might be broke for a long time. If I don't understand that now it's easier for anybody to start a business. So now there's more competition, not less. If I don't understand that, then it doesn't matter what the AI tells me. Because you read a lot, right? Yeah, I try to. But now it's all reading about AI.

Yeah. Yeah. But so, all right, so you want people to read books about entrepreneurs and what's probably the last thing they need to do? The last thing is just to experiment, you know, you've got to try stuff that feels uncomfortable. You can ask the AI, how do I, you know, how do I build a mold? Where's the best way to build a mold? And even like one of the beauties of AI, it'll help you create molds that'll be more efficient wherever you send it to build your first, you know, prototypes. We're in a whole new world.

It's a whole new world. Emma, 24 was, might as well say black and white 1920. Which to me signals so much opportunity. Oh, where there's changes opportunity. Right. But when we start to think about, okay, traditionally the barriers that have stopped people from starting a business, you know, where they live, where they come from, education level. It's gone. You're saying that's out the window now.

Oh, yes. As long as you have that smartphone that can download chat, GPT and all these things, not even paying up. right? You can ask you questions. Like you have access to me, you, the best professors ever. Now, it doesn't mean... There's no excuse. Now, you know, you may say, I need money to do this, but then you just ask this chat GPT, how can I do this with no money? What's the best way to start? Like, how can I create a prototype the least expensive way? I know what needs to happen in most businesses, right? Anybody can now ask those questions. Anybody. So given everything that you know, the experience of

building multiple companies, the experience of investing in all of these very kind of early stage founders. I guess my question to you is, can everyone be a founder? Can anyone be an entrepreneur? Can they yes? Should they know? Thank you. That's the end of that. Tell me why. Go on. Give me the reasons. Everybody's got ideas. And this country, that's what makes this country different than every country in the world. I say that all the time. Right? Because in the UK, not everybody thinks I can start a business. No. It doesn't cross their mind. No, absolutely. It's not this. It's woven into the fabric of society in America.

It doesn't matter who the president is. It doesn't matter what parties in charge. It's doable. It's doable. Right. And this country, we think I have an idea. And if I have an idea, it could become a business. And then you go on Google or now you go to chat, GPT or Gemini. And you say, has this ever been done before? You know, show me anybody who's done it and how it's turned out. Oh, nobody's done it before. Write me a business plan for this idea. Okay, and two seconds later, let me go through it. I can do this, right?

But then... But not everybody should do this, Mark. There's this line right here. What is the line? The lines, when you step over that line, you're in. And it means you got to do everything you got to do to be successful. And you got to do it. You got to do it.

It's not like, I'll go raise money and I'll hire people. No, you got to do it. Yes. You've got to be the one to do it. And most people aren't willing to make that commitment. So who shouldn't be a founder? Like, if you want structure, you should not be a founder. Now, you can be anal and deal with details.

But if you think, okay, you know, I want my life to have structure. You know, I want to work nine to five. I want to be a founder because I'll have more time to myself. Funny all of those things, Mark, that you say that. Am I wrong? No, you are right. It's just that certain people have a liberty to be able to say those things and other people maybe not so much. But you honestly believe that.

It's like if you're looking for structure, if you're looking for me, familiarity if you're looking for your days to be pretty much the same every day. Yeah, you don't like, you own the business. If you're looking for balance, forget it. Maybe don't be a fan. Yeah. I mean, maybe you can make it work if you have, you know, enough money to work your way through it. You own the finances of your company, but your customers and your employees really run your life, you know, and that doesn't even take into account competition who was working 24 hours a day to kick your ass. to kill you. Yeah. And so it's, I mean, you know, and in your industry better than anybody, right?

Because it is nonstop. Somebody comes in. Somebody comes in. They have an idea. Oh, no. You know, Emma's wrong. She, you know, she doesn't get the feel anymore. That's not the way people buy it. And you have a window in time as well, right? You're not good forever. Most founders are not great. You have like a musician. You know, I feel like there are these like golden years where you're like in it, you're on it. Everything's coming your way. And you match right. And you match, right? Stars align. Yeah, exactly. Right. Your feel is the match to what people want. Yes. And music's a great analogy, right? Because what was it hit yesterday? I think today. Same with clothes. Things that, oh, man, everybody wants that. So what are your red flags? Like when you're in a pitch situation, what are the things that to you're just like, that's a no-no? They think there's a magic bullet. That if they raise money, they can go hire somebody to do A, B, and C. And that's where I think most businesses fail. Because the founder will realize,

they don't have a specific skill set, or that something's not working that they expected to work. I thought for sure this would sell. I thought, you know, we're losing $20,000 a month. If only I had more money for a bigger marketing budget, if only I could hire a marketing person, if only I can hire a salesperson. It's always kicking the can down the right.

To somebody else that's going to be some super person that's, you know, a magic bullet. No, you've got to do it. You've got to be the bullet. You've got to be the bullet, right? If you weren't the magic bullet, it's not going to work. work unless you get lucky. Have you ever seen anything contrary to that? Like, has there ever been a time where you've met somebody and actually they've defied? Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's people, you know, but it's rare. It's rare. It's just very, very rare. Right. I've heard you say a million

times that you don't need money to start. So what do people do when they don't have money to start? Sweat equity. You know, you've got to, first you've got to find the right product or service. If you don't have any money, most likely it's going to be a service. You know, like right now, if I was 16, years old or 25 years old and broke sleeping on the floor again, I'd be all about AI, just like I taught myself programming. So if you had nothing right now, if you just said a thousand bucks in a laptop, you'd be on the AI trial. If I had access to a library and zero dollars, I would be all about AI. I'd be in there till they kicked me out eating my ribs, you know. Still with a ribs. Yep. Until they kicked me out. Yeah. And then I knew that I know that I can walk into

any small business and say, I know you don't know AI. And I know you're hearing about it. You've messed with chat, cheap T, some, and you're not really sure how to use it. Just like back then, I said, let me show you how I use a computer and connect them together to be more profitable, etc. That's exactly what I would do. What do you think that the best founders do that separates them from everyone else? They love their product or service so much. They just love to sell it. They realize they're not convincing somebody. They realize they're helping somebody. You're going to look good in those closed. Let me show you how and why. You're going to look good using this software. You're going to look good, you know, using this A will make you more productive or profitable. You're going to be

smarter when you're done reading this book, whatever it is, you know, they are so convinced that their product is going to make people's lives better. Why wouldn't they want to sell it and talk to as many people as they could? I love that. What do you think, Mark, separates, I guess somebody that has a real viable business idea from somebody that has like a hobby. Like how do you know when something is like, this is a thing that I can turn into like an actual viable business? There's two pieces there. If you're so committed,

you're dreaming about it, you dreamt about your business, right? Over and over and over. You would wake up and you'd write yourself notes because you don't want to forget what you dreamed. All the time. All the time. Same, right?

I cannot tell you all the time. Exactly. That's how you know. And then you've got to do it. to see if it's a real business because you might be so, you know, caught up in it. But who knows if anybody else cares? How do you know if something is buyable? People are buying it.

That's it. That's it. You know, Venmo you. They'll send you money. That's it. That's it. How else do you know? That simple.

Yeah. Now, like, you started, you sold a few, right? Yeah. Then you went to it. I started with one customer. Once I got my one customer, then I can have enough money to go get offered for the second company. Damon John talks about selling T-shirts on the course.

corner. And then once he sold, you know, his lot that he had, you use that money. I think people think it's going to happen. Oh, yeah. Everyone feels like it's a slow grind. It's a slow grind. I talk about this all the time in my own business, but certainly on Shark Tank. What is the difference between someone that should just continue to climb the corporate ladder and someone that should go out on their own? Like, do you see that very clearly? Yeah, I mean, what are you good at? You know, people tend not to quit things they're good at. People tend to get. People tend to get rewarded for things they're good at. And whatever it is that makes you good or got you to be good, just do more of it. Now, you may reach, you know, a level where you can't go higher for any number

of different reasons. And then, you know, you can look at going to a competitor, going somewhere else, or starting something on your own. But when you're good at something and you're moving up the ladder and, you know, you're getting results, there's a really good chance that you, or at least you should be rewarded. And, you know, that's a good reason to stick with it. I feel like there's just for some many people, they'll be in a corporate job feeling that they're not getting properly rewarded. But that's not the reason to necessarily go and start up on the road. I mean, that's what weekends are for. That's what nights are for. Should I quit my job? When do I know I should quit my job? You don't until you know you have a company. Don't. Yes. And when do you know you've got a company?

When the money starts going in. But it's as simple as that. So what do you say to people then? And they're like, okay, I've got my day job. I've got my side hustle. I'm working on the weekends. I'm seeing some customers. Where is the, when and where is the time to go, okay, now I've got to reply myself fully. I mean, when you see your bank account. Are you making it that simple for everyone? Yes. You're like when you can afford to live. Do you think differently? No, I think it's really difficult for people because, you know, sometimes you can get stuck between a rock and a hard place, right? And I think the hardest thing is actually when you've got a business that doesn't take off. When something takes off. Yeah, then it's easy.

You've got total clarity. When you've got something where you're like, well, you know, I only work on this for like 10 hours a week. And if I could apply myself a little bit more, you end up in that, you know. But usually you know, right? Because, you know, at that point in time, it's typically, all right, I need more inventory, right? Or there's something, whatever it is. There's like a barrier. Right.

There's a barrier. And then you deal with that barrier. And you may need your job to pay for more inventory. You may need to say, okay, I got to save my money. So I have more inventory for my company. Whatever that barrier is, that's what you. deal with. Yeah, that's what you've got to deal with. I mean, I think there's a lot of headlines right now about people, you know, like graduates that are unemployed. And I just wonder what you would say

or what your advice would be for new people that are entering the world of business. Yeah, I mean, you know, A, go find a job because you just spent four years paying to learn, right? We have a job. It doesn't have to be a perfect job, but you're getting paid to learn. I mean, yeah, you're getting paid to learn after paying to learn, right? You spend all that tuition money. So whatever business you go into, wherever you work, you're going to learn stuff. If you go in with the attitude that, okay, it's just a job, I just, you know, go home. But if you go in thinking, okay, this is a company, this is somebody's operating this company. I may be 10 layers down, but at least I can see what they do and learn some things on how they approach it. And I might

think to myself, nine months later, 10 months later, okay, I've learned when I think I can learn here. I don't, I don't like it, you know, go get another job. I love, I think that's really valuable advice. And if I think back to my 20s where I worked a corporate job for years, that's what it taught me. It taught me like, how do you run a business actually quite badly at the time? And I really did. It's like, well, that doesn't make sense. And they're giving it away over there and this, you know, but it was a great kind of training ground for me because I learned more what not to do than what to do when I worked in corporate America. And but that's what I think people get caught up in. You know, I'm not fully fulfilled. Well, you're getting paid to learn. You spent your four years,

in college if that's what you did. But that's the mindset shift, right? It's like you're getting paid to learn. Not like, I'm not fulfilled. This is not like, you know, my purpose in life. It's like it's not supposed to be your purpose. It's a check. And if you can appreciate it, it's like, I'm learning every day here.

It's a different thing. Whatever you start, right, you're going to have to go through a learning process. Yeah. Using chat, GPT or not, you're going to have to go through a learning process. And if you can do it on somebody else's dime and if in your back in your mind, you know, I want to be an entrepreneur like I did. I was always looking at that stuff because I knew I wanted to have my own company at some point. So every day was a chance for me to learn, you know, even if it got me fired. And,

you know, I think now it's not any different. And when I graduated from college, the unemployment do you think it isn't any different? No. Really? No, like when I graduate from college. You don't think there was just like so much more opportunity years ago. No. Oh, hell no. Really? Hell no. Oh, I'll challenge you on that one. Okay. So, okay, so I think that, for example, if you went back 30 years, for me it seemed like there was just so much less competition, no? Well, just because it wasn't all online where you can see it, you know? That's true. That's fair.

But now... But isn't that so much part of it, Mark? Because the fear for so many people is what they know. And sometimes what you don't know, like I feel like my naivety in the beginning of starting a business was my biggest superpower because you don't know what you don't know. So I was like, you know, you're afraid of this or that. Yes, exactly. But think about, you know, going to your question, right? Back then, you needed a whole lot more money to get started.

True. Right now, if you have a phone and chat GPT... Cost of entry is low. Nothing. You can figure out Shopify. Shopify, right, Amazon, whatever, right? Moles were more expensive. You couldn't just send it to China.

Everything was more expensive. To make shit was a lot harder and more expensive. You couldn't just go online and just learn all this shit. You were reading manuals. literally, I would read the fucking manual. A new catalog. And I was sitting in bookstores. I would literally go into bookstores.

Grab this magazine, grab this magazine, grab that book, go grab that book. Hide in the corner and read all day because I can afford to buy that shit. Yeah, there was no blinkist summary on something. No, and there was no shortcuts. There were no life hacks that, like, get you there. So now it may be harder because there's more competition. But to get started, there's, there was no. No businesses back then, you could start with no money down unless you were just selling your time.

You know, I'm shoveling driveways going door to door or whatever, right? Now get your Shopify and if you sell something, then you go to the manufacturer or you go to the distributor and you drop ship it. There's ways. There's ways. There's ways. What's something that you wish every first time found a new? Sales cures all. Sales cures all. No sales, no company.

That's it. No exceptions to that. Because people get amored with all the other stuff, amored with their model, the marketing, and it's like, you need sales. I talk about this all the time. It's like focus on distribution, focus on your sales,

focus on like owning that story and just being the best salesperson possible because that's all you need at the end of the day. If you can sell. Yeah, you'll figure the rest out. Yes, because everything else is not a problem. Everything follows through to that sale. If you can't sell,

it doesn't matter what you're good at. It doesn't matter anything else for that matter. You're stuck. Why do you think people avoid that? Because people don't like to be told no. Oh. You know, I tell people all the time. Every no gets you closer to a yes.

Every no. And I would tell that to myself, I was selling magazines door to door, right? And I'd walk up, are you telling me that for $5 a week, this wasn't going to improve the education and enjoyment of your family? No. Bye. On to the next one. And it's the same. Selling maps tickets.

You know, when I first bought the maps. Hey, it's less than McDonald's. No. You guys suck. Boom, on to the next, right? You've just got to be relentless and most people are afraid of the word no. Are you afraid to give the word no? Because I feel like getting the feedback is really hard.

You just give the feedback, right? No, I don't like to say no to people. That's my problem. That's why I don't do hiring to my companies. Oh, right. Is that true? Oh, yeah, because I'm awful at hiring people. You're just like, I'm on board.

No, I'm like, I'm a sales guy, right? So, like, I think I can make this work. What is the truth then in entrepreneurship that no one actually tells you? The truth that no one... Yeah, what's the truth? It's hard. You know, it's, it's, there's, I think you're not automatically going to make money. Most people don't make it.

Most people fail. It's hard. Yeah. That's, I think, what I've seen. And it's interesting, actually, as you go into the tank, because even if you think an idea is a great one and you think it has a market, like not everything works out. And you can give the funding and it just for, I don't know, a myriad of reasons might not work. It fails. Yeah, most companies have you failed?

Yeah, of course I've failed. You never heard about my powdered milk company. No? Started out of college. No. Not a good one? Not a good one. It was cheaper. It didn't matter if it didn't taste like milk. It was powdered milk. All right, tell me about the powdered milk company. No. Well, I want to know about the failure. I want to know what is it mean to fail and get back up and do it again.

Like what is it in you that allows you to take the failure and it not be about you? Damon John says it's best. It's the power of broke. You're broke. What else are you going to do? I mean, I was eating mustard and ketchup sandwiches. I was going to a bar with $5 buying one beer and eating all the fried mushrooms and the peanuts and whatever shit. Broke is good. Broke is great for a period of your life. Yes, right? Because you learn. Yeah. Yeah, it's really true. But what have you learned? Do you feel like the failures that you've had, have they amounted to something that you've been able to see? like as a pattern in your life, or is it more just about the individual circumstance? Because I feel like I could look at every failure I've had and I'm like basically the same thing. I don't know if it was basically the same thing other than maybe shit didn't sell, right?

Is that? Powder milk? Yeah. It didn't sell. It did not sell. I remember taking samples to people mixing up like, look, milk's expensive. We're broke, right? It's save you money.

Here's some gravy shit. I just seemed to look on their face. You can do about that. Point taken. You're like, I got it. But it's just you. Your tasting milk is different, right? All right.

So how long, because this is that kind of love? About a month. Yeah, about a month. Yeah, about a month. Yeah, but isn't that the thing? At least you didn't try to do that for a year. Because some people just don't know how to step away. But doing no sales.

It was going nowhere, you know? I know, but people don't always hear that. Don't you think, like, you must deal with a lot of early stage founders that just don't read the signs. they don't see it. And I think it's really important to talk a bit about failure and to talk about when it's time to pack it in. You know, I never really thought of it that way, but you're right. You have to have a lot of self-awareness to be an entrepreneur. You have to know what you don't know unless, you know, it's early. But once you get going in particular, you have to know what you suck at.

And you need to know how to get people to complement your skills. I think a lot of times entrepreneurs think, you know, I can do it all, which at the beginning, you pretty much have to. But as you grow and you're trying to scale your business if you have any success at all, you need to know what you're not good at. And you need to find people who complement your skills. And I think one of the mistakes entrepreneurs make sometimes is they won't bring in people with expertise that they don't have to be their startup partners.

You know, I'm not going to give up some of my company. You know, the thing that cracks me, I can't tell you my idea you might steal it. I'm like, trust me, I won't. I promise you. I'm like, fine, that don't tell me next. Yeah, on to the next one. But it's a great question, actually, like, just to understand the mistake that so many first-time founders make. And I feel like if I look back at my history, I'm an overly optimistic person.

And I feel like I can wheel anything to have, like anything. I can make a word. And sometimes I'm like, Emma, you can't wheel that powdered film. Like, that's just not going to happen. I can say anything. Honestly, and sometimes that will get in your way, but I've learned that about myself. And you learn, right? But it's okay to bang your head against the wall like that and learn.

Yeah, so long as you learn. As long, look, I say this all the time on Sharkton. It doesn't matter how many times you fail. You only have to be right one time. Just one time. What are you spending most of your time on now when you, you know, because it's like you're in a whole new stage of your life where you've made decisions that are all about what you want to do and how you want to spend your time?

And I'm curious as to your routine, what you do in a day, what you need to get out of a day. Beg my children to spend time with me basically. You're like, please, you want to hang out? Please, I'll fly you to the game. Whatever, right? Seriously, it's like, can we go to lunch? Dad. You know, let's go to the game.

So if your kids only knew how many people wanted to go to lunch with you. Oh, of course, right? We should tell them. Kids, figure it out. Everyone wants to go to lunch to your dad. If we go out, then I got to deal with people, right? That's true. You know, and so I feel bad for them.

on that end of it. It's like I always have to have the conversation. If your friends get drunk and screw up, nobody cares. You're my kid. It's going to be on the front page. Sorry kids. Yeah. That's the responsibility you bear. And sometimes they don't want to go out. They'll go, I'll go with mom, but I don't want to deal with the dad. And, you know, that's kind of heartbreaking. Yes, I can imagine that that really is heartbreaking, actually. It's really difficult for them. But that's really what you're optimizing for, to spend time with your kids. Yeah. Like I said, and the AI stuff. I mean,

I really get into it, obviously, and it's like, you know, knowledge truly is power. And knowing how to use these tools is everything. It is going to be everyone.

When someone asks you what you do now, what do you even say? I do a lot of emails from all the different companies. And we haven't talked about cost plus drugs.com yet, right? That's a big... Well, I really wanted to ask you about costpastrugs.com. I mean, are you...

Okay, so this is this was my thing, Mark, because I know you're a very political person. And I saw, I mean, I can't mark. Like, I saw you out. I thought, first of all, I do not understand why you're not the president of this country. And I, I know everybody asks you, but are you 100% sure? Yeah. You're not going to run.

I wouldn't put my kids through it. Really? You're not going to run for president just for us that need you, just for me. Maybe you ask me really nicely. No. Just for my whole family that are like, you know, don't you want to? I know. I get asked every day.

Is it every day that month? Lots of times a day. Okay, fine. Then I won't bug you back. But you've really considered it hard. Yeah, for a while I did. Yeah. It's just...

Not for you... Yeah. My whole life, I never got into politics. Do you have the feeling that if you run, you would win? Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I know, that may sound arrogant. It's not arrogant.

I think it's a fact. It's like, I could guarantee, I would bet on you and Michelle Obama. Boom, as the president. Michelle, better suited than I am. I mean, I don't think she necessarily wants to do that. We won't speak on her behalf. Right, right. I think if either if you wanted it, you'd have it.

I mean, the running part would be fun, you know, but just every, but just the shit my family would go through. Yeah. Yeah. If I was single, yeah, I would do it. You know, my kids were 40 years old. Yeah. Well, there's still time. Your kids will be 41 of these days.

One of these days. Just saying, just saying. All right, back to cost plus drugs. Okay. Because I saw that President Trump had made this announcement about leveling the cost of, you know, prescription drugs, right? And so it immediately made me think of you. Is that problematic for your business? No, it's crazy.

It is. It is great. Yeah. So let's say what cost plus drugs does. Please tell me. Everybody likes their doctors and all that stuff, but nobody likes the financial side of healthcare. It's a mess, right? You have to deal with benefits and all that stuff and there's no upside. Well, as an English person, we still don't understand it. You know that. We get eyedrops for four pounds, four dollars, you know, no. Gives you everything. I could, I will never understand what it costs in America to get like something that for my entire life I've taken totally for Brown. Well, it may be cheaper over here now. through cost plus drugs. So anyways, nobody likes the financial side because you don't know what anything costs.

There's no transparency. So we created costplusdrugs.com. And so you go to cost plus, you put in the name of the medication. We don't carry them all yet. We've got like 2,500 different skews. And if we carry it, up it pops up, right? Like your eye drops. And then we'll show you our actual cost.

And then we'll show you our markup, which is 15%. And you have your choice of mail order. If it's mail order, it's $5 for the pharmacist. $5 for shipping and handling, shows up in a couple of days, or you can go to a local pharmacy. That's it, right? But by being transparent, we changed the game. By only having a 15% markup, people trust us. Like, I read this thing one time, and I firmly stick by it now.

Trust equals transparency divided by self-interest, right? Wow, that's a really bad thing. Or how much are you doing for your customers, basically? Right. So our markups. Say that one more time for me, Mark. That's so good. Trust equals, it's a formula.

Trust equals transparency. How transparent are you on a scale of one to ten? Cost plus drugs is a 10, right? And then self-interest. How much do you put yourself ahead of your customers or how much you put your customers first? That's really powerful. Right. Our markup is only 15%.

People are like, that's fair. Yeah. So you get to see the total cost right there. And we publish our full price list. And so by doing that, we've just exploded. And we've changed people's lives. And, you know, on my professional side, I mean, there's nothing more rewarding. I get emails all the time. I can't imagine. You know, I was going to spend $900 on this medication for my cancer. And I couldn't afford it. I go to cost plus drugs and it's $21. I mean, or you saved me $15,000 a month, right? It's insane. And so, you know, cost plus drugs comes along and we've just been around for $1,000. three years. So now let's tie it back to what the administration's doing. They want the cost of medications to be the same as they are overseas. Well, on generics, which is most of our skews, we're already cheaper. Like most of the generics that you would have to buy in the UK were cheaper.

Go to Canada, we're cheaper just because the way generics are structured. But for brand name drugs, it's a mess. Right. And so there's these things called pharmacy benefit managers that are the middlemen who are keeping the big farmer manufacturers from working with us. Because they know if we introduce transparency, it'll screw up the game for them. So now with this stuff from the administration and wanting to match those prices, now the manufacturers of those brands, they think they can get out from under the thumb of these middlemen, the pharmacy benefit managers, and work directly with us. And I think it'll happen.

It looks like it'll happen. So if that happens, a lot of these brand medication prices, they're going to tumble. They're going to tumble. I mean, it's a win-win for consumers, basically. For sure. And why did you choose this category for a new business? Because it's kind of outside of everything that you've done in technology and...

Yeah, because, I mean, I saw an opportunity to disrupt something that's really fucked up. It's really fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. So we're trying to simplify it through transparency. Like, for my employees, there's no co-pays. From my employees, if you do your stuff through our network, right? If you do our stuff, if you buy your drugs through cost plus drugs, there's no co-pay.

we pay for all of it. And now we're setting up this direct contracting with hospitals and doctors and everything, and I can get all that stuff to you guys, so that there's no out of pocket for our employees for anything that we cover. There's no pre-authorizations at all. Because we're willing to work directly with the hospitals and cut out the middlemen, we pay them a lot less. We just pay them up front.

It's seriously, seriously impressive. And it's pretty noble, actually, to be doing this at this stage of your career. I'm not doing it to make money, right? I don't need the money. But the whole idea of fucking up health care. I mean, that's exciting. Yeah, that's fun, right? I love that you always come back to fun.

That's going to be my big takeout from you, actually, because it's all about you having fun. Yeah, it makes you feel good, right? Like when you see somebody wearing your stuff. Oh, it nothing makes me happier. Also, nothing makes my husband happy because what happens to us in restaurants is that people come up and they flash us.

You know, they go, skims! And, you know, he kind of puts his head down and pretends he's looking at his dinner. I'm like, this is working out really well for you. Right. That's basically my life right now. Right? Just flashing me their bras.

Perfect. And I wonder if you have any regrets at all, because you've done so many things, so many impressive things. Is this something that you missed or something that? Yeah, there's lots of stuff that I missed. Do you don't dwell? Yeah, I mean, I don't really dwell on it. I try to learn from it. Just not repeat it. I wasn't nice enough when I was first getting started. You know, I literally had one of my partners say, people are afraid of you. You know, I didn't listen all the time, you know, because I was focused on doing what I was focused on, you know. And so I miss things. and, you know, that negatively impacted people who worked for me. So there's a lot of mistakes that I've made.

And you just, that's just inevitable, you know, and I wish I could have done it differently. And if I had to do it all over again, I would do it differently. But it's done and I'll try to learn from it. But you really have learned from it because if, and I mean this in all seriousness, you are one of the nicest people, I know. You know me well, but you just don't see me when I'm like, fuck you don't do that.

I hope I never see you like that. No, I don't do that. Those days are gone, but I used to. But it must be something that you've really decided, like, I'm going to be a nice guy, because that really is who you are now. People would rather work with you if you're nice. Of course. I mean, I've always taken the opposite point of view because I feel like, you know, you get more of honey. Like, you're just going to be nice and like people are going to do more for you. They're going to be nicer to you. It's just the way that it works.

No one likes to do with people that piss them off or they hate. And I'm really interested because you talk about your kids so much and I wonder what you're teaching them. that's a good question. Sometimes it feels like nothing. They're good kids. I've got to say, my kids are really good. My oldest is a junior in college. My middle is just graduating from high school last week.

And my son, my youngest, is going to be a sophomore in high school. And so they know everything, obviously. Yes, they do. And I'm trying to like just be there as much as I can and participate as much as I can, as much as the level. You know, so I don't mind suffering my son wherever he needs to go or driving. You know, if any of my kids wants to do something, you know, unless I just humanly can't, the answer is yes.

And so, yeah, that to me, other than cost plus, you know, learning and doing what I do professionally, but family-wise, just trying to, you know, spend as much time with my kids and family. I am, because I spent such a long time sitting next to you and trying to extrapolate bits of information, I feel to be remiss not for me to try something today. And so I feel like I'm in a bit of a chapter changed. I've always looked at my life. It's like I've my consultant life. I've my like, you know, business, starting businesses life. And now I'm in a bit of a different chapter. And I wonder what you would say to somebody like me, given everything that you've learned. What chapter are you in? Well, you know, it's an interesting one because I feel like, you know, I love what I do. I really, really do. I love these businesses. But I'm definitely at the stage where working kind of 16-hour days and filling every 40-minute, you know, section of my day. It's really, it's really difficult.

And I'm in the time of my life, you know, I have an 11-year-old and an 8-year-old and twin-three-year-olds. And so I'm looking for very purposefully for a different. type of rhythm to my day. Certainly not to say I'm going into your time. No, no, I get that, right? I know exactly what you're saying. But a different rhythm,

like more opportunity to indulge in the things that I love and also share the things that I have learned. Well, I know the answer. You've got to learn out of trust. You've heard this before. Probably a lot, right? Because when you're really, really, really good at something

and you know it takes more time to convey it to somebody and wait for their answer and then explain what you want. And you just want to do yourself. Let's just get it done, right? Because we've got other shit to do. And so, like I said, I suck at hiring.

And so I had to get help with having somebody that I trusted to hire the people that I know we need it. Even if it meant, you know, turning over that person multiple times because you've got to find you. You've got to find your mini meets and be able to trust them. So hard. It is really hard. It's so hard.

Especially when it's a go, go, go, go, go, go, go. business. But that's what you got to do. Because otherwise, you're doomed to 16 hours a day forever. Forever. Yeah. And it doesn't stop. And it doesn't need to be a magical. And what I've always tried to do, and like I said, I don't really hire, but I'm good at promoting people, right? And starting with somebody, getting to know them and trying to, you know, get them into new skills that they can grow with and I can grow with them. So that, you know, who is the one person that caught your attention? in one of those hours in that 16-hour day that can deal with that issue that you can train or support or they can just tag along with you until they get there and you trust it.

And then you've got to be honest with them. Here's why I'm doing it. It may or may not work. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't mean I'm going to fire you, but you may be disappointed that you're not that person the way I need that person to be. Yeah. No knock on you. You know, this is just a very specific role that I need.

That's what you've got to do. because it's hard, hard in your situation where you've gotten like this and now you've got to fight. You're a fight. Every day is a fight. Because whenever you see this for even a day or a week or month. You're like, then you have to go fully back in. Right. And it's just like what the fuck's going on.

Yeah. And it's exhausting. And it is exhausting because you have people that gave you money and now you're responsible to them and they're trying to get their ROI and they want to know why this isn't happening. And you've got your budgets and it's driving you crazy that you've got a budget that somebody else is also wants to know instead of just you know it. feel like you've been here before, Mark. Right?

It's just like, but you took that money, right? You took that money. You got to make a, you know, you've got to have a result. That's just it. But it's a great lesson for an entrepreneur and for founders because if you don't trust people, you can't grow. Like, there's no one that does it alone. But it depends where you're life cycle, right?

Yeah. Everybody's got. It's all about where you are. Right. Because individually, you have a life cycle. Little like, like, what you can tolerate and what you've done and what you've accomplished and the risk reward for your time. Because your time value goes like this as you get.

order. And the money, if you've made enough money, it starts to, you know, unless you're a person just needs more and more and more, and I don't get that sense, right? So now it's about your time, but it's also about the obligation. Because I always say raising money isn't an accomplishment. It's an obligation. It's an obligation. And so. And so now you have this obligation. And so the good news about it in having it is that, like you said, industries go in phases, and you still have to find those people who help you adapt to the next phase. You know, so what's and what's next and, you know, for Gen Z and the 15-year-olds are going to be different than the 25-year-olds. And so trying to find those people, that's the challenge.

And that becomes, you know, here I am trying to give you a vibe, right? But that's the part you've got to figure out how to conquer. How do you hire those people to put you in that position? And what's the learning process to get there to be able to do it? Because if you don't do it, you already know what happens. You're doomed. You're stuck. You implode.

You stuck. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really interesting because I feel like one of the things that I spend the most time on is hiring. Because it is when you get a person that comes into your business and you can truly trust them, it's like an unlock, right? You're like, and hopefully they're teaching you when you get people that are really seasoned and real specialists. Then it's the worst thing ever. It's the worst.

Because it's a reflection on you that you did it wrong. And then everybody else knows that's wrong. And you make mistakes all the time. And it doesn't matter. I make mistakes all the time. Every year there's a handful of people. that I'm like, this is just not going to work. And they were good somewhere else,

and they have the experience, and on paper they were amazing, and they were fully betted and da-da-da-da-da. But it doesn't work out. For whatever reason, it doesn't work out. That's when I talk about you've got to kill your darlings. Like just get it done. Oh, yeah, you always, higher, slow, fire fast.

That's the one. Ain't it just? And you adjust. I wonder what is left in your life for you to accomplish. Well, I'm just getting started. Do you feel like that? Yeah, of course. Yeah, don't let the wrinkles fool you, right?

I love that. You feel like you're just getting started. Yeah, like I get these, you know, these requests. We want to give you a lifetime achievement award in tech. We want to give you an honor for the, I'm like, fuck no. I don't, yeah, I'm like, no, I'm not taking awards. I take two awards. And I always say no to the rest. I just don't do awards because I'm just getting started. What is it that tells you you're just getting started? When you're so accomplished, what can be left for you to, where's the ambition? Disrupting industries is fun. Fixing health care could be amazing. I got a lot of work to do there because we have a path on pharmacy

and I think I have a pass on fixing the healthcare side of it too. Right. Amen to that. I mean, sign me up. Yeah. You know, and you connect me with your HR and your... I'll be your guinea pig. I mean, I am ready for it. Let's absolutely go. The things I'm doing for my companies to eat your own dog food stuff, yeah, I'll turn you on to all that. We really, really need this. But doing that though, right? But that's where you're ambition lies in, like, really changing, disrupting, industries, but having fun is important to you at this point.

I mean, yeah, because it's rewarding, you know, I'm competitive in everything, you know, but I stick to things I can be good at. Yeah, well, that's the pattern in everything that you've done, right? You've found what you've been really good at, and you've just gone deeper and deeper into it and had more and more focus. I read last week, or maybe it was the week before, that you'd started a big sports fund now. Yeah. What is your plan there?

So Harbinger is with the guy, Roshan Williams, who was a guest shark. Amazing. So he came to me. Yeah. And he was like, hey, we want to do this fun. Would you help? I'm like, sure. Sure.

That's right up your app. Yeah. So I can help you. But you sold the Mavs now. What's that? You sold the Mavs now. I still have 27%. But I don't have controlling interest.

Oh, is that hard for you, Mark. Because that's not the way it was supposed to be. But that's a whole other conversation. I mean, we've had this conversation. I was like, did you know? Yeah. Especially like, yeah, there was the first Luca game. It was the first Luca game that we were at.

And I was like, I don't know about that. I was giving you shit because I was like, I think this was not good. I think this was not a good move. You're like, what do you know? And all of LA is just like, thanks, Mark. I was like, I'm going to ask the question that everybody wants to know. I was like, did you know and why did you do that? I didn't know.

And I was supposed to be in charge of it. But, yeah, you know, he gave me a lot of money and changed his mind. So I kept the money. What are you going to do? Well, thank you. We're happy to have him. That's all I can say. But go back to the sports fund for me.

It's not too, yeah, it's not too hurtful. But no, so what we want to do is minority interest in sports franchises are hard to sell sometimes. And so we just want to create a vibrant marketplace with some transparency for anybody in a major sports franchise who maybe their, you know, their families have owned it for 30 years and they own 1% or 5%. So it's more for minority ownership, not to try to get control. Interesting. Are you spending a lot of time on that? Not a lot. It's more fun for you.

Yeah, I just answer questions and connect people. I love that. It's just, I mean, it feels like you're never, you're never going to stop. Do you ever think that there'll be a day when you're like, I'm just going to pack it up and I'm just not working? It's not work. It's not work. Will you ever stop thinking about all this stuff? We ever stop seeing something and never?

Because I really do genuinely love it. And I imagine I'm just going to like keel over one day, like mid. Well, you know, and it's just about allocating your time. time, right? So I don't have to go into an office and spend 14-hour days worrying about the furniture or whatever, right? It's just like, I do almost everything via email and some Zooms, right? So I'm meeting with pharmacy companies over Zoom and whoever. And I mean, literally, there's not a minute of it that I don't love. Like, it's, it sounds great. It is fun for me to like to learn all this pharmacy shit. And people are like, wait, you're the Shark Tank guy. You're not supposed to know all this. I'm like,

it's important. I put in the time and I learned it. And then how do you apply AI to all this and learn all this stuff for our manufacturing so that we can be the lowest cost provider versus everyone else in the world? Stuff is fun. You know, once you're saying, once you find something that you love to do and it's fun, just keep on doing it or finding new application. So, you know, I don't see a reason to stop any of the stuff that I like to do. Why would you? Well, honestly, I am so happy to speak to you because I just think that you are one of the, most inspiring, honest people. And from the day that I first met you, I was like, this smart guy is like, all that he cracks up to be.

You're the least disappointing person in the world. Let's say that. Okay. That's a hell of a scale to be on, but I'll take it. Because everybody you ever meet, you know, you build them up in your head and then you're like, that's disappointing.

Yeah, trust me, if you knew everything. Well, don't tell me. I've got, I've had enough. No. But like we all do, right? We all do dumb shit. We all do dumb shit. No, but, you know, it's really interesting, Mark, because I think that success does funny things to people.

And it's amazing when you can be as open and as giving and still have these, like, really big aspirations to make things, you know, to have your fun, but to make things better. I think it's really impressive. Do this. And what could be. It's the best in the world. Ever. It's the best ever. At least disappointing podcast I've ever done.

I'll take it. I'll definitely take it. I've only got rapid fire for you now. Okay. Right. The first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do before you go to bed, please. Take a shit. You're the only person who is ever going to say that. I'm going to run a compilation of these. I was like, I can tell her what I normally say, but that would be no.

Manifesting, meditating. Yeah, like check my e-mails. Whatever. No, take a shit. Do I'm right? Literally. The best. I should have asked that question last because now we can't recover.

Who would say that? And this is what we need a president that just like does that. Mr. President. Mr. President. What did you do? Lactose intolerant, got to go. Amazing.

Okay. That is amazing. What are you currently aspiring for in your business life and in your personal life? Personal life, just more time with my kids. you know, just with them wanting me, it's going to be dragging it and professional, just fucking up the healthcare industry and really changing it in this country.

What's a book that changed your life? It's really, probably several of the Iron Rann books, like The Fountainhead was big. A couple of her books, yeah. Wow. Any of them. Yeah, like Howard Rourke was like my role model.

He was like a guy in her books. that just didn't care what other people thought, just focused on learning and trying to be the best he could be in his mind. And so that kind of was model. Like a lot of people think, well, that's, you know, too laissez-faire and too libertarian. But that part didn't matter. It was just like this was a guy. I was just like all about not caring and just going for it. Love that.

Clearly role model. What is something you valued when you were starting out that you don't anymore? Probably status. You know, I remember after I sold my first company going into bars thinking to myself, I'm richer than you, I'm richer than you, I'm richer than you, I'm richer than you, you know, just dumb shit that guys do. You mean you don't walk into bars thinking that anymore? I already know.

All right, something that you value now that you didn't back in the days. Kindness, empathy, probably the most. Yeah, I wasn't real empathetic at all when I was. first getting started. It was just like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. If you're in my way, get the fuck out of my way. That was it. And now, you know, then I went literally kicking, but, you know, but now it was just like, okay, I'm sorry, let me see if I can help you. This isn't a fit. That isn't a fit. But, you know, if I can answer any questions or do anything for you, I'm happy to. Thank you, Mark. You're the best. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your

favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emagreed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emagreed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliard Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey on Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Justin Dom is our senior producer. Our producer is Kristen Torres. Sound Design and Engineering by Bill Schult. Angela Paluso is our booker, original music by Charles Black, video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi.

Social media by Olivia Holman. Special thanks go to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at Jonesworks and W&E, Moora Curran, Josephina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meecore, Sean Cherry and Lauren Vieira. You have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emma Gride. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E-D-E. That's Aspire A-S-P-I-R-E with EmmaGreed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emigreed.combe.

Own it all. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly Big Board Buckslot machine by Aristocrat Gaming, Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is giving one person a $1.6 million dollar dream package, the biggest prize in Yamava's history. Club's Serrano members can earn daily instant prizes and secure a spot in the finale May 29. Don't pass go and own it all, only at Yamava, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win? Details at yamava.com must be 21-20. Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this

promotion.