Aspire with Emma Grede - The Change Agent: From Street Corner to the Corner Office (Steve Stout)

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

If you’ve ever felt like where you come from holds you back — or that success only happens for people with access — this conversation will change how you see yourself. Music mogul, entrepreneur and branding genius Steve Stoute joins Emma to reveal how he turned being underestimated into his advantage, using his roots, instincts, and connection to culture to build an empire that reshaped music, marketing, and business. You’ll learn how to: -Turn rejection into momentum -Use your background as your competitive edge -Build ideas that move culture — not just chase it Watch this if you’re ready to stop waiting for permission and start turning your story into your strategy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am so excited to share my debut book with you or Start With Yourself, which is available now. You might have seen the headlines, you might have seen the social, but this book is exactly what I intended, a conversation that will make you think, and it's a blueprint for anyone who wants success without the toxic positivity. Start with yourself is about self-leadership, because wherever I go, women ask me how I got to where I am. But what you really want to know is how you can get there. So I'm doing what I do best, sharing and navigate keeping what's works for me in the hope that you can borrow from a philosophy that has served me so well. The truth is I'm not an expert. I've just lived it. I've made the mistakes.

I've had the failures and I've learned what actually works. It takes a lot. It takes the most. And this book is for anyone who's tired of feeling like a passenger in their own life. It's about taking responsibility for your thinking, managing your emotions and getting clear on your ideas and then knowing your next step. It's about picking yourself up after failure, being accountable, but also forgiving yourself, pushing for wins, and never, ever apologising for your ambition. It's also about challenging the rules that you've been told. There is no perfect time. Balance isn't the goal. Alignment is and there's nothing wrong with you wanting more. I'm precisely sure that the reason I've been so successful is so I can

share it with you. Start with yourself. My debut book is available now. Visit emigre.com to purchase the book, also available on Amazon, your favourite audio platforms and all good bookshops. Some people wait to be invited into the room. Well, Steve Stout has never waited for anyone. Steve is a powerhouse music executive, marketing genius, CEO and founder who has worked with everyone from Jay-Z to big global brands. But it all started with one truth. Your background isn't baggage. It's the key to unlock everything you've been chasing. What I love about Steve is that he never tried to fit in. He used what he knew and where he came from to his advantage. He's helped artists sell millions of records, built culture-defining companies, changed how brands talk to culture,

and now he's here to show you how to achieve breakthrough success by leaning into exactly who you are. I'm so happy to have you here. Just to contextualise it a bit for the audience, I want to understand what your core skill is. When you think about all the success that you've had, what do you ultimately boil it all down to? I was always curious about things I didn't know and understand. I never let industries that were new intimidate me. So the truth was that what I seen growing up as a kid in Queens, Trinidadian immigrants,

was that everything that we were doing, everything that I seen happening over time would then somehow have this reverb effect. then get larger and larger and larger and larger. And the only way to capitalize on that was to figure out how to get into those industries and get into those rooms in which you could make that big step change. But what took place was no one was able to get in those rooms. First, there was the first big obstacle. They were white people, white corporate CEOs. And they didn't give the shit about what you had to say.

So how are you going to get in that room? So building relationships became a thing that you had to do because you had to figure out a way to get those people to understand your perspective. So you were forced to do things. And I'm talking about 20 years ago, not when it's in vogue today

because there's money behind the movement. So of course, you're going to get the cool white CEO who wants to know the cool young black person or Spanish, Latino, whatever it may be. I'm talking about when they were doing well on their own and you had to go in there and get them to truly understand. I know you're doing well, but you would do even better if you did this.

That was a very hard thing to do back then. So you learned relationship skills as a result of it because you had to get into that room. So I would say that understanding and confident that I knew something that others didn't and then putting relationship skills on top of it was the key difference for me. I know a lot of people who knew that we had something different,

but they didn't have the relationship skills, so they would just end up arguing all the time. Like, you don't understand. And I didn't want to ever be that person who was sitting at a bar, fucked up financially, saying, you know, I had that idea first. I know what that looks like, that person who had the idea, but because they could never convert that idea because they didn't take the relationship part

or the relayability part or trying to figure out a way to bridge the gap more serious, they got so caught up in their idea that it frustrated the shit out of them and kept them trapped. So the combination of understanding those two skill sets at a very young age, I would say, is what I did different. And I guess there must have been a time

when you were frustrated and you felt trapped. Like, was there ever a moment where you were frustrated by the start you had, where you come from, the fact that it wasn't a given for you. How did you get past that? I think so many people feel like that. I swear to you, Emma, I never felt trapped by that. I actually would tell you I feel more trapped now when we could talk about that.

I never felt trapped back then. First of all, when you talk about African-American culture or even, let's talk about hip-hop culture, black people in America ascending was coming up during my time. You got to think about, you know, whether it be living single or the Martin show or Will Smith and hip hop, everything's going at the exact same time. And it's coming from ground zero. It's moving really fast. Every time you had any sense of doubt, you didn't have to look too far to see something

moving in the right direction. That looked like you and felt like you. And that was very important as a reminder that you were on the right step. and in the right path. So it wasn't frustrating. Again, it could have been frustrating if I didn't open myself up to knowing now I got to get to the relationships,

now I've got to be able to get to the other side. All of the guys that were successful before me, whether it be the late great Clarence Avon or Quincy Jones or Benny Medina, all of those guys that were successful and understood black culture always had a counterpart, a Jewish counterpart, for the most part, who understood them and was their partner, was almost like their segue into a larger financial opportunity, distribution, capitalization, those types of things that can help you do something.

So all I had to do was like, what did those guys have? And there's a lot more of them. What did they have? And in my early relationships, Jimmy Iveen, Tommy Motola, Peter Arnell in advertising, they were guys. that I found along the way that helped me go further in my career. And you could look at my career and you could see who those people are. It's not like hard to tell. Did you study those guys before you knew him?

No. No. Study them? No. Because I do that. I do that all the time. I find out he used the tip at top. They had a good job.

Let me say. He goes to study. Yeah. Who's the CEO of Sony music? Oh, that's Tommy Motola. Oh, who's the CEO of Venoscope? Oh, that's Jimmy Iveen. You know.

You knew them? How I got to know them is a separate thing. But I didn't have to study them. The title and everything was right there. And it wasn't like a lot. It wasn't like fractured information like it is today. Where there's a thousand different options. It was five labels.

And you got to call one of five guys. So am I good enough to beat everybody else at getting to one of those five guys? Yes. Yes. That's easy. No, so there was nothing to study. I love you. There's nothing to study.

The New York Times calls. you the CEO that other CEOs turn to for advice. And I wonder, does that even mean anything to you when you see a headline like that? That's a fucking great question. Why'd you ask me that? Well, you know, I asked you because I think like there's such a part of you that is, there's so much self-assurance in you, right? You're like, no, I didn't study the guys. I'm like, I'm studying everything. I still feel like I'm studying to this day. So I wonder if there is anything in you that goes, yeah, I love that. I love that adulation. I love to see headlines written about me like that or is that just another headline? I was shocked that the writer got away with writing that

headline. I was, I didn't believe that that was the headline, actually. We'd be honest with you. There's truth to that. Obviously, it's what I do for a living. It's what I've built a great living doing. But when I first read the headline, I was taken back by it that the writer in the New York Times would write that as a headline, to be honest with you. That was my first take on it. were you, do you feel embarrassed? What's the feeling? I want to understand that. That's a bold headline.

That's a bold headline. Yeah, but it is the truth. I mean, it's New York Times. It's a proper journalist. It's not some like, you know, random influencer. I mean, I'm trying to be humble about it. No, I wasn't surprised. Good luck.

Might be the first time in this interview or the last time in this interview. No, I wasn't surprised. And they got the picture right too. The whole thing worked. It was, first of all, it was a great article. But I was very accurate. I was very proud of it. It was a great summary, I think, of your career.

And, you know, when I think about you, I really want to understand. I mean, I know where you came from. But I'm trying to understand, like, the essence of you, the early experiences that shaped your understanding of the culture. Like, can you talk to me a little bit about what has made you so successful and that understanding of culture? Like, where does that come from? I got a chance growing up in Queens in 1986 to see. you would love this. I mean, I have vivid memories, not blurry at all, vivid of watching L.L. Cool J perform at

block parties. I mean, watching a guy that looked just like that with the can go on, perform at a block party that you paid 25 cents to get in. I seen L.L. Cool J battle guys in the mall. Like, when you look at kids in the mall in a circle, I seen L.O. KulJ., I seen it 16. Like, I seen that. Okay. I seen Rundee, when rap took off and specifically in my neighborhood, the guys, they were big names and they had music videos, but they still lived in the neighborhood.

They didn't make enough money to move. So they got the jewelry, the clothes, and the car, but still lived right there. Right there. So you got a chance to see it and feel it and be around it. That was very important. I mean, obviously, you wish that they made more. money to ascend and go further, and they should have got what they deserved earlier. But you also got a chance to feel it and know, oh, shit, this could be you.

So the success of those things and watching those things ascend were very important to me in shaping my perspective on this thing could really be big. Bismarkey performing in basements at a basement party. These are like real, real things that I seen and witnessed. And growing up in that neighborhood within a five-mile radius of where I live is Tribe Call Quest Russell Simmons,

run DMC, LL CoolJ, they all lived in this neighborhood. You know, I would go out to Long Island and you'd see EPMD at the mall or the fat boys, salt and pepper.

These were all real things within one area. I mean, honestly, within one area. So I just, it's like when people grow up in Silicon Valley, And they understand tech. Obviously, they're within an area in which there's nothing but tech entrepreneurs and visionaries of that idea there. In my neighborhood, I happen to be in a place in which hip hop reigns supreme and everything around it.

The breakdancing, the streetware, obviously the music and the production and the whole thing. It shaped me. It gave me perspective on the power of culture. Now, I'm not saying that to say that I knew. it would be a business. And I don't want anyone looking at this to say, oh, look how fortunate he was. He grew up there. So he knew it was going to be a business. I didn't know it was going to be a business. I'm just saying it was in my DNA. So then when ultimately the opportunity came and I was like, oh, shit, I could put these two things together. If you fast forward

to like, oh, shit, you can make a G unit sneaker. You can make a JZ sneaker. When it got to that stuff later, then I started to pull from those things. I didn't know that at the time. You were really destined for a career in music. You were, I think, an extremely... No? What do you mean, no? I thought that I was going to play sports football. I thought I was going to make money in real estate.

I was doing well in real estate. I invested the money in real estate to get into music. But again, I didn't know that was going to be the whole thing. Where did you get the money from to invest? In real estate. My mom let me... You know, my mother let me money. She refinanced the house.

Oh, my goodness. And, I mean, she refinanced a house. My father was away, and he definitely didn't know she refinanced the house. And I'm never going to ask how she got his signature. She refinanced the house and let me money. She must have had a lot of faith in you. And she took the money, and I took the money, and I bought a property. And I ended up making money on that property shortly.

And that gave me, that was the seed money to get me going. Do you remember how much you made? Yeah, I made $45,000. Oh, that's a lot of money. back then. Yeah, I made $45,000 when I was 19. And you paid your mom back. I paid my mom back and I got going. But for you, that was like a moment in time, right? How many years were you doing this with homes? I was probably doing the mortgages for like three years, three and four years. And I took the money and I started investing and I found a producer and that producer and I started

a company. And we were trying to make tracks and shop our music and the first real opportunity I had, There was a young, talented comedian who we developed a friendship early, and he was shooting a pilot and gave me the opportunity. And anyhow, long story short, it was Martin Lawrence. And the first thing that I was credited for doing was the Martin Lawrence theme song for his television show. I want to talk to you about this kind of turning point in your career. So you've obviously, you grew up in Queens, you play some football, I'm making. in a very, very short story now.

You get into real estate. And let's just fast forward because the things that people say about you, Steve, it's so crazy. I mean, I could sit here and just like blow up your head. Tell me. People, I mean, first of all, I mean, Jay Z describes you as the bridge. He says you're the bridge, the voice between hip hop and business.

What does that mean in practice? Like, what do you actually do? How did you get that reputation? Well, he was talking about what I had spoken about earlier, like being able to develop relationships. When I was doing what I was doing, honestly, like, yes, I watched the Benny Medina's and the Quincy Jones and the, God bless, the, you know, Clarence Avons and so many more build these relationships in corporate America, specifically in entertainment. I wanted to do it outside of entertainment as well. So when I went into advertising, well, now I'm trying to take hip-hop culture and I'm trying to bring it to brands.

and they don't even need this shit. They don't even need this shit. And they think it's guns and violence and problems. Trying to convince somebody to do something when they don't need it is extremely difficult. Like if you need it, then it's like, okay, fine. Like, shit ain't working, so let's try this. But you got to remember back at that time,

when we're trying to sell Jay-Z sneakers or trying to, which is probably what he was referencing, but I also had so many big ideas and have so many big ideas that the brand is thinking we don't really need, it's not like we need to use this thing to solve a problem, so why are we even engaging in the unknown? But my idea was, then I'm going to take the time

to develop a relationship with you. Let me translate this for you so that you actually can see how this can be accretive to what your intentions are as well. This is not an alternative. This is actually something that works in accord with what you are currently doing. And that was hard to learn the language,

to learn the cadence, to learn what would work best. And a lot of times for me, the best way in is if that person had a teenager at home. Because if they had a teenager at home, if the CEO had a teenager at home, I had a shot.

Because they would ask their child one thing. And if it came back right, then I'd get the return phone call. Yeah. That's so true. I totally understand that so much. What was the infliction point, do you think, where culture and business really clicked for you?

The easiest way to market would be men in black. And men in black was interesting from a standpoint that, you know, Will Smith's career as a musician had come to a, you know, hit tough times. And I'd known Will for years because I worked with Kid and Play and Will Smith. And those were like the happy rappers. Yeah.

Right. So like the happy rappers. So Kidden, Play and Will Smith were the happy rappers. They were successful. And acceptable. Yeah. Right? To the wider culture.

They had movies. Yeah. They were happy rappers. And the reason why they had television shows and movies is because they were safe. Were they happy being happy rappers, by the way? No. No. You know what the funniest thing was?

They both wanted to be the opposite. Yeah. Cool. They all wanted to beat other shit. Dahl. All the other guys were looking at, because back then that was selling out, right? Being successful and selling out were closely assimilated. Like, oh, they're selling out.

Look how successful they are. That's such a trash idea in hindsight. But it was a trash idea the entire time. So when Will Smith had hit, you know, headwinds as an artist, there's DMX and Biggie and Nas and Wu-Tang and all this set. And now he wants to come back. or put out music, I knew his team, I knew him, and they entrusted me. I was at Sony, and we made the soundtrack for Men and Black. And Will Smith was so ice cold at that time.

You think he's cold now? He was freezing back then. Oh, he's cold now. He's cold. But he was so cold back then that on the hook for Men and Blatt is SWV. And they didn't even want to be in the video. No. That's so crazy to think about it, because I feel like that was like the heyday of Will. They didn't want to even be in the music video. I mean, his happiness and their credibility, they didn't want that to mix. So they wanted to check,

but they didn't want the video. So what does the unhappy, happy rapper do with himself? When he gets successful? Yeah. Oh, well, when the song becomes successful, Will goes on a run, right? Then we make out, then he gets jingy with it, right? Like everybody would do. that when you're happy you get jingy with

wouldn't you do that so anyhow that's funny the the glasses that he wore in the movie in the music video took off

and when that moment took place we at the record company was so successful because we sold 10 million Will Smith albums and we didn't expect that to happen obviously and revive his career and have massive success

and I thank him for that. But I was interested in those glasses, man. I'm like, we're not eating, eating up the glasses. And you know what's funny? And you weren't getting paid off the glasses. No.

No, the glasses were just in the movie, no one's getting paid. How about this one? What about Will? How about Will got nothing. It was promotion. They paid the movie company something and the movie company.

Like product placement baby fees. Yeah. So what happens is the whole thing takes off. And that honestly got me down the path of trying to figure out who did the product placement, who was the agency, I got close to the agency, and I ended up leaving the music business and going to work with that agency. So you then start translation, the agency.

Yeah. How do you go round to all of these artists and convince them that they need to then start thinking about themselves as a brand? Because it's early days for that. It's early. You know what? And every there's, you can't watch a podcast. without Jay Z's name coming up anymore.

But let's do it. Come on. Let's talk about Jay. But he, he was all in. He believed in me easily. Like, he did it. He was wearing Nike's and then left and did like his own pair of Reeboks. And Reeboks were being shitted on.

I mean, Biggie, Biggie wrote a line. You were a Reebok vando. Now you wear Chanel sandals. I made you. Why would I play you? I mean, he wrote those lines. I mean, they were like, considered the worst.

Yeah. And Jay said, now we're going to put S. Carter on these joints and we're going to go. And now listen. Because he was getting a piece of that. Yeah.

But he believed in himself, fuck what Biggie said about the Reebok vandals and fuck what everybody. I'm going to change your opinion on these joints. And he did. And he did. And he did. And he did.

And everyone was wearing those. That's what led to Yeezys. That's how. Believe me. That was the deal that changed the game. That's how the Reebok got sold to Adidas. This is why the Yeasies got made. I know the whole story.

Like, Farrell would tell you, Farrell went to CFDA award and said, it was, I got to thank Steve Stott. I put Farrell in the thing with ice creams. That's what him and Nigo did the joint. We made ice cream sneakers. This is in 2004. This is crazy shit.

Early, it's early, man. That's what I'm saying. That's what I mean, I literally have followed your career. I'm the one. I'm saying that. But you are credited for that. I feel like that people know. I'm not saying it.

There's nothing I'm saying that I'm saying. in this conversation for credit. I'm saying it because I want people to unpack the DNA of what an idea is to feel comfortable breaking new ground. We have so much more to give if you can find the tension between what is culturally happening and what problem you can solve as a result of it. And there's so many more categories that could use our insight.

And some of them we feel like, oh, we can't do that because the barrier entry is too high. How are we going to get into shapewear? Or how are we going to get into, like, oh, alcohol's taken. But I remember there was a time where there was no way you could get into alcohol. Alcohol, are you crazy? A million percent. Or soft drinks, you know.

Alcohol, soft drinks, clothing. We were like Diageo own it, Coca-Cola own it, Pinocchio own it, Peronricado, we can't do that. There's so many different categories that we can actually go into and use our unique insight and bring ideas to the table. So I'm not saying this for any other reason, but I had those ideas back then and there are young people

that should have those ideas now or people who are looking to break through in culture have those ideas now. But the most important thing is are you an entrepreneur? And we should talk about that at some point. I want to talk about it right now. So how do people tell?

Because let's be honest, right? I feel like where we are in the culture right now, everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. A lot of people think they can start businesses. I have an amazing... Everyone can start a business. Everybody thinks they can. No, no, no, no, no.

Let me tell you the truth. You're wrong about that. Go on, tell me. Everyone can start a business. Well, they can start one. Well, that's all I'm talking about. Go on. Keep going.

That's the end of the sentence. That's it. You're just... Everyone can start one. Period. So what is it tight? As a chef, I know flavor doesn't begin in the kitchen. It begins on the land.

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Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. What is the difference between those that should, should and can start businesses, those that should and can perhaps take jobs? And how do people decipher that for themselves? Because I think that what you're talking to here is a lot of people that are ambitious. So how do you decide how to place that ambition? How do you know what type of person you are and where you should put your energies? Your ambitious energy. One of those things that I think is very important. I don't want one to feel like you can make a lot of money. You can do very well.

Working at a company. In this country, yes. And not having the risk of getting fucked up, being broke. Make a good living, secure your family, and do well. And there's nothing wrong with that. And that shouldn't be looked at as negative. And that shouldn't be looked at because you're not an entrepreneur. You did this thing that's less than. That's not true. Most entrepreneurs fail. Most entrepreneurs are fucked up. If you speak to Travis Kalanick, the guy who started Uber, failed and was back at his mom's house at 33 years old as a failed entrepreneur before he started Uber. He started Uber waiting for a taxi. They didn't show up.

That was like, fuck off. They probably thought he was a failure and they didn't want to stop for it. But Travis would tell you that story. You got to be willing to do that to be that fucked up. And you have to have a belief in yourself that's so maniacal that people think you're crazy. People ridicule you. They think you're bugging the fuck out. You know, you're willing to put it all on the line.

And I can't tell you that unless you have a dream in your head that you can't get out of your head, that it's worth it. Unless you have something in your head that unless you pursue that thing, it won't get out of your head, I'm not sure it's worth it. I love that framing. That's really important. Unless you've got something in your head that you otherwise can't get out of your head, it might not be worth it. It might not be worth it. That means that you are constantly thinking about something. You have no choice.

And you don't have a choice. You have more choice. Because the rate of failure is high. The rate of failure, it doesn't make any sense. The math doesn't work. The math doesn't work about being a successful entrepreneur and getting funded and growing and having a successful exit. It doesn't work.

But if you can't get it out of your head, I understand. I couldn't get it out of my head. I didn't know. I knew I couldn't go to college. I know I didn't want to do that. Well, you tried and you tried and you tried. I tried and I tried. And I wanted to make my parents happy.

I knew I wanted to do that. Is that what the driver was to try so many times? You're West Indian, man. You got to, like, you definitely got to go to college. Your parents got all the way here and you can't even make it to college. So I didn't want to let my parents down. So I let my parents down when I didn't go to college. But I didn't know I wanted to be an entrepreneur.

That word has started to get hot in the last 10, 15 years. I didn't know. The two words that got hot in the last 15 years, Well, there's three words. One is entrepreneur. The other one is mentor. Right? The fact that people run around

asking people to be their mentor is insane to me. Okay, just pause there. Wait a minute. No, I'm not posting. We're coming back. We're coming back. There's no commercial break. Entrepreneur, what are we coming back?

Entrepreneur and mentor, what's the other word? Culture. Okay, we're coming back. Go back to the mentor bit. Why is it crazy that people run around asking for a mentor? Why are you skipping? Why do you want to go to that one? So I just want you to get in trouble.

I'm going to ask you about work-life balance in a minute, so get ready. Tell me, why is it crazy that people run around asking, will you be my mentor? Because I never heard of that shit before. Somebody chose you. Somebody found something in you and decided, without saying it publicly, that they were going to take you under their wing. And then all of a sudden it was this transition that you were being mentored by them. there was not a transaction that said, can you be my mentor? Yes.

Yes. I am your mentor. You are anointed. Yes. I don't know what the fuck anyone's talking about. And when people say it, I'm like, what part of TikTok that I missed? This one. But tell me, you know why people are looking for mentors.

So what do you tell them? I have a pretty, like my thing is, don't ask for a mentor. Ask for questions. Don't come and ask me, if you've got my time and I'm in front of you, ask me a fucking question. Can you be my mentor, please? Ever until the time. So what do you tell people that are looking for a mentor?

When people ask, if somebody's looking for a mentor, I try to tell them this thing. Like, obviously you want to be in proximity of success and people that you want to emulate, right? I talked about this a long time ago. If you find somebody that is successful, emulate them and don't find any shame in that. There are people who are in this industry right now

who emulate me. And it doesn't bother me. It bothers me if they don't give me credit for that. Quite right. Or at least the acknowledgement of such. But I do encourage, regardless of that feeling, that you emulate that person, it doesn't matter. Because whatever makes you successful, wherever you can find it, borrow from it. Yes.

That's why I asked you if you studied those guys, because I feel like when you, when you grow up, I grew up. I studied Quincy Clarence. Of course you did. I studied Quincy. I thought you were asking me was I studied the guys. I was in the guys. Fair, fair, fair. But you did study Clarence.

You did study Quincy. You did, like, you were there looking at those guys, looking at their behaviors, looking at there, how they moved. And you were like. Yeah, I was studying Russell Simmons, Clarence, Avon, Quincy Jones. There was a guy who took over Beatrice Foods. Lewis, he happened to pass away. Reginald Lewis, I believe his name was. He wrote a book, Why the White Guys Have All of Fun.

Should definitely read that book. He was like the first black guy in that, was doing it gigantically on Wall Street. But I would read about these guys, these gentlemen, and I would be constantly inspired by what they were doing. And even like Russell Simmons back in the day, you pull it from everywhere. And I don't get, some of it is shallow,

and I don't care about that. Russell Simmons had a Cartier, Panther, Panther on, and he's sitting on a Rose Royce. He's sitting on a Rose Royce, and he takes the picture. And I'm looking at that, photo. And I'm like, okay, the fact that he got that watch on, that Cartier's joint on, and that Rose Royce in the hood,

I like that. At the same time, I like Mr. Lewis and what he's doing with Ventures Foods on Wall Street. At the same time, I love what Clarence is doing between the business deals he's brokering for Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and LA and Babyface. But it's like self-mentory. You're looking at these people and taking it. I'm looking at all these people. The consolation. of it. I'm pulling from all these different places. And then over time, I have met people and they have mentored me. I would tell you that Jimmy Iveen has been my mentor. He's given me years and still provides me advice. I've learned from other people. Jimmy Ivan has been my

mentor. I didn't ask for that. I didn't know that we were doing that. I didn't realize that dance was happening until 10 years after the dance. Like, shit. Every time I think of something, I'm in a jam, I think about what Jimmy said, you know, that kind of thing. But this idea that you can walk up to somebody and be like, can you be my mentor? It's so fucking fake. Like, you can't just microwave a fucking mentor, man.

There's no, it's not like a popcorn button. Like, these people are so crazy with this bullshit. He said you can't just microwave a mentor. I do think that's really important takeaway because we have become, as a culture obsessed with the idea of mentorship. And you're right. You can't manufacture those relationships. They are.

They are. What are you talking about, man? You need to shut up and listen to what I'm saying about that. Well, that's why I've got you here because you've got so many good things to say. I know you're not talking to me, Steve. I know you've got to have to shut up on my own podcast later maybe. I want to talk to you just about this. Again, you just talk about culture a lot.

Why do you think it's like, talk to me about why it's something that is a buzzword and that It feels to me like you feel like the word is like overused or misused. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, because what happened is it's turned into this ketchup. You could put it on anything. Like that on a culture. That a blah, but culture. And sometimes it's specifically meant to talk about black culture.

I wrote a book, The Tannning of America. I read it. You told me that. New York Times best seller was fabulous. Thank you. And I wasn't speaking about, When I spoke about the Taming of America, I was talking about a global understanding of culture,

something that shared values, something that had commonality, which is what culture is about, is things that lead to culture, like rituals and nomenclature and language. These things are all what shaped culture. And the word is just being thrown around now with no true definition by most people,

and the intent is to say it in order to say, well, you know what I mean. It's important. And I'm like, that word is so very acute at understanding a group of people and what those people share. Don't use that word so loosely. And don't use it on anything

just because you can't find a better word. Work harder to find, to pick your words more carefully. Because that word culture has so much depth to it that sometimes when it's used frivolously, it bothers me. Go back to using authentic. Use that word. Remember that when you used to play around with that word?

Fuck around with that some more. I feel like, I got you. I know. I'm going back to authentic. Please don't. I know what you're out right now. You're like, shit.

He's just in my brain. He's literally in my brain. But I feel like everything that you are so known for is being somebody that intrinsically understands the culture and has been able to, I guess like decode or code it for brands. Like that is what you're known for. How do you continue to be that person?

What is it that makes you so good at that? I'm going to tell you the first thing, what I said about my, one of my strength is my point of view, my personal point of view, is really not important right now as it relates to what I do professionally. I am a vehicle and a vessel between what is happening

and what needs to happen in corporate America. Okay? So whatever is happening out here, whatever's moving in emerging subculture, I need to understand it and be able to help translate that for Fortune 100 companies.

Yes. That's my job. Whether I like the dance or like the clothing style or like the word or whatever, it's really not my perspective. In fact, I built United Masters. It's a music distribution company.

We distribute hundreds of thousands of songs. It's not like I like all the songs. There are songs that I really do like. But most of the songs, I can't tell you I have any affinity to. But what I do have an affinity to is helping those independent artists get their music out to the world. Yes.

Right? And that's how I feel about things. Young people are going to shape and define culture. That's what's going to happen. It's happened with my generation. It happened to your generation. It's going to happen with the next generation. We're never going to put Jack back in the world.

box. That's what's going to happen. So trying to fight it like our parents did, like don't do that and no, no, no, and cut MTV off or whatever the thing was. It's not helpful. So how I remain relevant in this trade, this exchange, is by removing myself. Removing your opinion. Removing my opinion. So you don't got to like it. You just got to understand it. All I got to do is understand it and facilitate and hire one. That's what I do. I stay, I stay tight to understanding what my role is. As soon as you forget your role and you start thinking it's you, you're in trouble.

You might as well just close a door, give them back the key, and go home. That's a really, really precious understanding of what you do. For some people, it depends on where you are on your cycle of an entrepreneur. Some people I just said that to me think I'm bugging. Where you are, you're like, shit, I get with the, fuck he's saying. No, I fully get what you're saying. That's not for everybody. That's not for everybody.

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small business insurance... Thank you. One size, absolutely does not fit all. get a quote or find an agent today at thehartford.com slash small business. I really want to talk to you about leadership style because I feel like this is something that kind of fascinates me with people that have been successful in multiple different areas. You've said that your number one attribute is telling the truth. And I think that that is such a sort of lost and forgotten skill now because people want to people please and to be popular and to trend and to go viral. We have to say, or people think they need to say things that people want to hear,

what's the hardest truth? When you start to think about, like, your clients and the people that you're around, A, I want to understand how you are able to do that, like, to keep telling the truth and keep getting the clients. But I wonder if there's a particularly hard truth that you've had to tell that, you know, has led you to where you are today. Like, is there one big thing that you're like, this is what I do on a regular? You're good. You're really good at this. Thanks, too.

One of the values that I have at the company is challenge and respect. So let's talk about leadership and then I'll get to truth. Challenge and respect is one of these things where we have to be able to have a disagreement and get to the other side without you ever feeling disrespect in that process. And that's very hard to do. Very hard to cultivate. It's much easy to yell and get mad or leave. In fact, it's the reason why I just went back to a four-day work week

after all these years and I was fighting with it, not me fighting with it, but more with people in my company. Sorry, from what to four? From three to four. From three to four. And I went back to it because what I realize is that... Don't get me started to see it. People don't have confrontation on Zoom.

Nothing good ever happened on a Zoom. Well, that's not true either. Oh, Steve, come. When did a good idea come out of Zoom? When did someone go, you pointed at a box and you were like, yes, you, excellent. They probably came up with Zoom on a conference conference call. I do. They came out of Zoom.

Okay. Fair. But if you don't deal with conflict and confrontation, people in general do not like conflict. So if you put, but businesses need conflict in order to grow, you need conflict. You need that tension. So if you don't put people in decisions that, create conflict, and you allow Zoom's to be the way you communicate, I think you lose conflict resolution, which is going to help the company and help everybody.

So that's a challenge and respect, right? That has to be omnipresent within the way you conduct and do things. So when you talk about telling the truth, the hardest thing for me to do is find the person who's willing to hear the truth inside of a company. and that's usually the CEO because they don't have a place to hide. Yes. The chief marketing officer a lot of times

Yeah, they can do that. Yeah, exactly. The CEO, the CFO, when you start getting into that realm of the company, more fact-based, they can handle the truth well. CMOs and performance marketing companies have to handle the truth as well. So I don't want to just, I don't want CMO

to get upset about this. But understanding that truth and finding someone who can hear that truth is a very important part of the process. Because I'm not talking to, I'm talking to the company, right? So it's like, if it's me and you, we work at a company, we're employees or whatever, and we're arguing over what book to put here. We have to have direct conflict resolution. But when you're doing it with a company, you have to find who's the person within the company that can hear the truth because you need that person and then to do something. To do something and distribute that fact within the organization. So finding the person is probably the biggest job in corporate America.

There was a second question you asked me today. Well, I want to understand, like, how do you see the truth? Because there's one thing being able to say it and tell it. How do you even see it and find it? When you remove yourself, the great relationships that I have with artists, and I've been fortunate to work with some of the greatest artists in the world, produces and creators overall, is because I would tell them the truth.

The thing that I realized, Emma, I don't give a fuck. Eminem, Nas, 50 Cent, Lady Gaga. You name the artist, I don't care who it is, Beyonce, this, that anytime you tell the great artist the truth, they want to hear it. It is such an odd thing. It's the artists that are not that talented

that want to be lied to. the best of the best want the truth I think the best people always want the truth It's the craziest thing I learned that very early in my career The best employees The best employees want the truth The best husbands and wife want the truth

I'd be leaving my mouth And I'm like shit I hope it's gonna be like And they're like yo I really respect you I'm like Oh shit word I want you around more

Yes If you can tell an artist Or any creative the unvarnished truth with a rational fact behind it, with a real thing behind it, not just saying the wrong shit just to be coming at it just to have a different point of view, but like not a hard take,

but like really like I think you should look at it that way because da-da-da-da-da-da, and you're not running around asking for shit so you're not incentivized to tell them the truth or not the truth or whatever. You're just giving it from a heart. You can develop long-lasting friendships that way. And I wonder how,

How do you actually even create that culture internally? How do you create a culture of challenge and respect over just agreeing? I can't tell you I'm there yet. I'm not there yet. I'm not there. Before this podcast started, I was in the back having a challenge and respect discussion that had this room bubbling. Because they tell me.

You probably got worried that. Steve's bugging out. They're just like, we're just going to give Steve a minute. Yeah. They cut the air conditioner up. Let's go this guy down. The challenge and respect thing, I'm not there yet. And I'm dealing with something that you asked me, did you feel trapped?

Early in this conversation, you said, and I said, I feel more trapped now. I feel more trapped now because it's hard for me to tell somebody who is accustomed to this new day and age of how you work and the softly. the soft shit, work from home and Zoom and all that type of shit to have this type of conversation with me. But I also come to the conclusion that I'm not changing either. And this company is going to live and succeed based off of how I run it. So I have to find people who can work with me because I'm not changing. And that's just the way it is. These are the things that I believe in. And this may not be the place for you. And that's fine, because not everywhere has to be for everybody.

I think I've come to a very similar conclusion, and it isn't to say that one is right or one is wrong, but I think that workplace culture, especially when you're in a privately owned company, is down to whoever is leading that company. You can get on board or you can go, and I feel like it's very, very clear. Again, and that should also not be disrespectful.

Like, this is just not for you. It's cool. It's fine. I'm not wrong. Because we can argue about anything. I could argue about anything. We could all argue about, should it be three days a week, well, maybe four days a week is better.

Or maybe we should do this. Or maybe you should talk to them that way. Or maybe, like, you know, bring massages in once a week for employee morale. I can make up a bunch of shit. Okay? And it could be right. It's just not right for the culture of the company that I'm building. Like, you can go into people's house.

You've ever going to, like, a friend's house growing up, and they'll be arguing and shit. and it looks chaotic, but yet it's peaceful in that house. It's like everybody has their own version of the culture of their household. Totally. That may not work for your household, but it works well in that household. I want to ask you two questions about leadership before we move on to this. The first one is specifically as it pertains to women, right?

You are extremely successful, run multiple different companies. When you start to think about women in the workplace, right? Specifically female leaders. I want to understand if you feel like there are really big obvious differences. And because you're somebody that gives a lot of advice, yes, I'm getting you into it, because you're someone who gives a lot of advice and you tell the truth, how are you feeling about female leaders in your company? Do you think that you treat them differently?

Do you give different advice to women over men? I'm curious to hear from someone who's going to tell the truth. I'll talk about my company and then I'll talk about the industry. Yeah. So. Fine. I'll let you do that. When I speak to a woman in my company, I don't see it any different than when I speak to any man in my company.

And that's actually could be a problem. I don't round the edges. I don't see the way I look at my business, I put the company in the middle, and we are all in service to that company. All of us. We all have a role in play of service to that company. And that's the only way I see it. So whether you're a man or a woman, my expectations doesn't change because you're white, black, you know, or gender.

It just doesn't, it doesn't, I don't feel that difference. I don't state that difference. Now, the person on the other side may want to hear some difference. They may want a soft the tone or they may want some, some understanding as a result of something. And I can't tell you that I do that. And there's pros and cons in that, I am sure. What I've realized when I look at the macro and I go to some of the great leaders of women

that I've met in the industry is that I haven't seen much different from them than men. So one of my very good friends is the Sunder. The CEO of the Sanda Duck. The Sondra. Right. If you speak to the Sanda,

you wouldn't know who the fuck you're talking to. Right? Like if you, AI, her voice and they put a man's voice behind it, you would think that you're getting fucking screamed at and broken down every five minutes because she's tough. And her expectations are up here. And she don't give a fuck about nothing, but we got to get to the top.

And like that sounds like a lot of men that I know. And it has that same kind of energy. But whether it be Kellyn Kelly at AT&T or... I can go through the list of solid women leaders that I've met. They do not have any chill as a result of, because there are women as it relates to the same expectations and results that they want as a man.

Are they softer? Nah. No. All right. Work-life balance. This is one that, you know, I feel like I am constantly in some kind of, you know, conflict about just my thoughts and my feelings about this. And I'm curious as somebody that employs hundreds and hundreds of people that, you know,

has had businesses in this current business climate, has had businesses 20 years ago. Where do you stand on the whole work-life balance as a point of view, as an argument, as something that is like a requirement from staff right now? I, as an entrepreneur, I don't think that you have the luxury of coming up with that idea. I just, that's just like, you know,

you are hiring people. You're an independent company. You are hiring people. People are putting their kids in daycare and college and private schools, et cetera, based off of your leadership and their belief in you. And you're running around working on work-life balance when the company is at risk of putting these kids in their private schools at risk, or their college tuition at risk.

So I'm like, you have to afford work. work life balance. If you're the CEO of an entrepreneurial organization, in general how I feel about it, let's say things are going well. Let's say things are going well. Everything's going well, right? So we're skims right now. Everything's going well. You can have work life balance. I've seen you in your husband in Switzerland, having a good time, walking up mountains, taking pictures and having a good time, beautiful skies. You should do that. Things are going well. If the company was being fucked up and I've seen you posting that, your phone would be ringing. I'd be like, what the fuck is from?

You bugging? I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would, I would do that. I would, what are you doing? Like, where are you doing? What the fuck is you doing right now? And I would think that that's a right thing to do. I mean, you can't, again, when you are building, when you're starting out, when you're in those early days, you can't do that shit.

Like, you can't, you can't, you can't go off to Europe and take a four-week vacation. You can't. I'm not answering my phone. No, no. How about, how do you feel? Let me ask you a question. How do you feel about auto reply? No, no.

If I see an out of office, my head explodes. In fact, do you know, I haven't written an out of office since maybe I was 24 years old? I have no idea. I'm 42. I don't know where to program that on the thing. I don't even out of office. Are you kidding me? But it's a mentality, but you know how we sound?

But you know how we sound? You sound like the people like whining about rock and roll or something. I'm happy to know. I'm happy. I'm clearly older than you. and you're saying the same shit. So I actually feel younger. Well, you are.

You're officially in your early four news right now. Listen, because I feel like people will be screaming at us. I understand what is the requirement of the way that we live, right? People do not want to be glued to their phones. They don't want the expectation that they have to answer, you know, emails at 10. They are glued to their phones. They are glued to their phones. Well, that is something else.

They are glued to their phones, but maybe it's for their own enjoyment. I think that we have to be extremely specific here. If you are an employer of a company, there is one thing. But if you want to start talking about being an entrepreneur, if you want to start talking about being a founder, if you want to be somebody that is truly ambitious, the idea that you can decouple, extraordinary effort and extraordinary results is farcical. You're nuts. You cannot. You cannot have one without the other. And I think every founder I know, every entrepreneur that I know has a period of unbelievable grind, unbelievable graft, unbelievable hustle,

wherever you come from, whatever you want to call it, and it doesn't come on a four-day work week, and it doesn't come not answering emails or the phone after a certain time. It doesn't matter. Man, woman, with kids, without whichever industry you're in, it just, that is what it is.

Again, listen, I agree with everything that you're saying, and I hope that anybody that is watching this who is looking for mentorship are willing to subscribe to these values. Because if you don't subscribe to these values, and read in between the lines of some of the things that we're saying and actually what we mean, right?

It's an attitude, it's a mindset that's required to win that if you're not willing, if you're not all in on that, then you're just not going to win. I don't give a fuck what it is. If there's any wisdom I can provide being somebody who's been doing this for a while is that I've never seen anybody win long term with shortcuts. And finding out that you're not successful and that your idea

didn't work really late in life is terrible. Like tricking yourself, I used to call it the Ponzi scheme a lying in yourself. Like you can lie to yourself for a really long time. But could you imagine when that lie runs out and now you're in your mid-50s? And you just found out. And you just found out that you were lying to yourself all these years, you're really not the person you said you were to yourself? And do you know that that's what most people do all the time? That's actually the normal course of life. Like you just keep lying. Because like once you start, once you lie to yourself and you start getting on that pattern of lying to yourself and believe in this inflated version of the truth and you lack self-awareness, that drug and the way you can rationalize that can take you so far

And you just keep putting off the pain. Just don't deal with it. You don't deal with it. You don't deal with it. It's that person's fault. You're the victim. It's over there. It's over there.

Now you look up and that there's no place to run. And you're 52. And I'm not saying forget about it. I'm like, forget. I could never. You could never. I could never. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes.

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Yeah. Sell externally, not internally. Please expand. Yeah. If you're a salesperson, you could actually sell yourself and sell the people on something that's an idea that's actually not necessarily the right. way to do it. You believe in it so much, you sell it to your people and you sell it to yourself. And you can, to untangle that when it doesn't work is hard because you've sold everybody on this

idea. So it's fine to sell externally. Don't sell internally. The internal stuff has to be all, no frills, all truths, no, nothing inflated. When have you, when have you done this? Give me an example. Believing in an idea longer. then the actual idea was viable. And I sold it to myself and I sold it to my people. Yet it still wasn't an idea. Yeah, fair. No, that makes total sense.

You've done it? I might still be doing it. Who knows? It's a great piece of advice. I wanted to ask you, like, I want to talk to a bit about money because people find it very difficult to talk about money. And I wonder if there is some advice, like financial advice that you wish you'd have had when you were 25.

that you'd be happy to share? The habit of saving money is important. The idea of saving money is important. One of the things that I learned very early was, I forgot what it was, it was a life insurance account, but it was life insurance that had some bond effect connected to it. And it was like $200 a month. And I remember the guy saying,

if you put $200 a month in 15 years, it's going to be, you know, $250,000. I'll make up a number. But whatever the number was, I was 21 years old, sounded like a big number to me. And I remember thinking, really? But he explained to me the idea of money being compounded.

And obviously, the beneficiary of money compounding is time. And I did it because I was trying to get to that number at the end, that $250,000 number, whatever it was. And it was like four years ago that I stopped paying it. I was still paying $200 a month. No, you were not. Yeah. No, you were not.

By the way, through different business managers and all kinds of shit, there was still this thing. There's $200 going out every month. That's amazing. And it was a significant sum of money. It was, you know, it was upwards of $600,000. But I remember thinking, like, how serious I took that at that time. And it was a goal in my head.

Yeah. Saving money early, it doesn't make a difference if it's a lot of money. This is the habit of saving money. Anything consistently is important. It's no different than somebody saying, you know, working out daily to lose weight or whatever. Saving money at a young age consistently, fuck the amount. don't think of the amount at that moment as insignificant. What you're trying to do is create compounded effect over time.

That is a very important thing. Even if you're an entrepreneur, I don't care. This idea that you're an entrepreneur so you don't have to save money, don't believe that. Saving some money and having it there consistently, the habit of that, that muscle of that, I think is very important. Yeah, and I think it's very interesting because it's really about, frameworks or habits, as you say, because what that does, like when you start to think about compounding effects, they can apply to so many other things in your life. And it's teaching you that

doing something with consistency and doing something repeatedly, it's actually, it's like a muscle, right? Are there other places in your life where you have habits that are just second nature at this point? Most of them are all work-related. You know, like it's a weekend, you know, scanning for a problem. I completely know that feeling. I'm like, everything's fine, so what's not? Yeah. It's like you scan for a problem. And I know where they find the problem.

I know the right question to ask. That's one of my things that I do that with, I guess, sleep deprivation. I've learned how to do that well. I heard that you only sleep like four or five hours a time. That's psycho. I'm not happy about that. You shouldn't.

That's not good for your longevity. I'm not happy about that. I'm just saying. That doesn't, that sounds like some, I travel way too much and I don't sleep. Are you, are you not a good sleeper? Or do, like, what is the thing? You don't need a lot of sleep or you've just got so much happening and so much going on your brain. I don't even know anymore.

Oh, no. You've got to change that. I'm, quite frankly, you're too old for that. I don't, yeah, it's probably true. I don't think I like sleeping. I actually don't think. I actually don't think I like it. I actually don't think.

Who doesn't like sleeping? I don't like it. I just thought of it. about that for the first time. If I'm tired, yeah, I want to sleep, but I don't like look forward to sleeping. Are you a good rester? Are you someone that just, like, sits down and watches like a good movie and can just,

like, chill out? Hell no. You're not a mediterate up. Shut up. That sounds like a Zoom. That sounds like a Zoom. All right, let's talk about legacy and the next generation, because there is going to be so many people here that want to understand, like,

Why are you still working as hard as you're working? What do you want to be your legacy? Well, I have a 20-year-old daughter, Sophia. I met her. Yeah, and she is at Columbia University. Are you so proud when you say that? I'm very proud of her. You should be.

She's really smart. My legacy, it's important to me that have a son, Pharaoh, and a daughter of Phoenix. I want my children, obviously, to be something. to do something and continue to do things that they're proud of. It's important to me that my contribution to hip hop in the culture of hip hop is something that stands a test of time because I feel like I put a lot in and I got a lot out of that relationship and everything that hip hop music has done for me and my family and its impact on the world.

And that United Masses and the companies that I build are something that when people look back in books when they go like, man, something changed that I was there to make a shift to put a dent in what was happening in the world. And the reason why that matters is because I've taken so much of time away from my family. Yeah. At least we could say we have that to show for it. I could have done well financially without taking that much time away from my family. It's very lovely that you say we... But specifically to do the things that we're doing, The things that we're tackling are hard jobs. It's not like just trying to make some money.

I could go on and do a couple of things to make money, but to like build a company that was going against major label record industry or build an advertising company that didn't exist that was focused on understanding where culture was going. To change the game. To change the game. And that's, to me, that's beyond money. You know? Look, even back in the day, like,

When I first went and put money behind Carol's daughter to start that brand to help Lisa Price in that company, you know, we were the first African-American beauty brand in Sephora. Crazy. They won none. Crazy. Like a black girl would go into Sapphora. Nothing. Start scratching her head looking for some fucking shampoo. That was, right?

Yeah, she was walking out with nothing. She was walking out with nothing. Or the wrong product. It was like, I remember thinking like, how do you go? I tried to think like, I'm going to go to carnival. cruise lines, like all these people go on these cruises and like, you want to use all the shampoo that's right there. All that shit is fucking your shit up. The condition is fucked up. You really, really, really did. You really, really did. You go all the way to Carnival cruising.

Everywhere you go, if you're a black woman, there's nothing convenient for you, including in Sapphora, you know? And like, doing those things to me are important. But again, it's like what we were talking about. What's the idea? What's the problem you're solving? And how are you going to solve it? And is there an audience for it? All of the businesses that I've involved in, I'm proud to say that I've gone at it with that level of thought. And they've all had varying degrees of success. But that was the level of thought that was into each one of those things.

Incredibly thoughtful. They're hurrying me to rush up now, so you've got to do rapid fire quick. All right, this is a question that I missed for you, but I really wanted the answer. Who do you think is killing it right now at the intersection of business and culture? Who? Who's killing it right now, it is?

Who's killing it? You guys are killing it. Thank you. The team at Skims is killing it. Who's killing it right now? There's about to be a whole other new opportunity with all these streamers. Oh, I know. Yeah.

The streamers. But who's killing it right now? Fuck. I would say, damn it, I don't want to just sound like that because you're right here. It's okay. Go ahead. Shit. I mean, I don't know.

No, you guys are questioning here. I do think the streamers. The streamers are having. chance to kill it, all the guys in AI, that's not, I don't see that as culture. No, I don't see it as culture, is it? No, it, it will get to that. Yeah. But it's not there yet.

We're still all figuring it out. Yeah, we're still figuring it out. It's too early. But there's not like, there's not an artist or someone that you look at like that and you're like, they have turned themselves into a business and a brand. Travis Scott is killing it. Travis. Yeah.

Yeah. Travis Scott is killing it. Ferrell is killing. it. You guys are killing it. Just stop there. That is perfect. I'll take it. You put me next to Travis and Farrell. I think that we'll all be very happy. This is a really random

question, but I actually nearly texted you. What do you make of Cracker Barrel's rebrand? I never fuck with the name. I haven't seen the rebrand. You know this news, Steve Stout. Don't pretend with me. Okay, what do you think about risk and

audience? Give me your point of view on the premise of it. risk an audience? Yeah. Yeah. When you have nothing to lose, I think you should go for it when you have nothing to lose like that.

I think when you're in, when your backs against the wall and you have nothing to lose, then going for it is the best available option. That's my risk analysis on crack a barrel. First thing you do when you wake up? Cold plunge.

Oh, you're a gold plunger. You can't tell by my skin. It's not working. So silly. That's so good. What's the last thing you do before you go to bed? Think about what I have to do the next day. I scan the day.

Of course you do. What are you currently aspiring to? Oh, man. I really want to see how far I can take this thing. This idea that there's this place where peace and ambition coalesce. I love that idea. Like this idea that you could really be at peace and be as ambitious as ever.

or we need another podcast. Now you write at the end, you say that. You asked me that question. Fucking annoying this timing. What's a book that changed your life? The greatest salesman in the world. What is something that you valued when you were starting out that you no longer value? Acceptance from others.

The acceptance of others like, yeah, you know, I like Steve. You know, that bullshit. People like whatever the fuck they, like it was going on right now in the world they just run around liking whoever's popular at the moment fuck them but like that that thing was a thing for me in the beginning

like you know people really don't like you because and that shit used to affect me like really what did I do and then as I got older I realized I don't fucking like them how about that part how about that part actually yeah fair enough

you end your email with much respect, which I think is such a beautiful way to sign up an email. What does respect mean to you? I respect your time. I respect your perspective. It really comes down to this idea that I want you to expect for me, this idea of you should expect from me what I expect from you, this mutual exchange of a feeling towards the way we hold one another,

the regard we have for one another. That's a very important thing to me. Because for years, and it's important, you'd respect people from afar or you'd respect them without any concern if they had respect for you. Well, I would do that because I wanted to be in their good wishes or being their good graces, and I'd be like, you know, I'd have this respect. And now I'd do it. I don't have that idea anymore.

I want, obviously, it's not respect unless it's mutual respect. There is no respect unless it's mutual respect. There's no way I can respect you if you don't respect. respect me. That doesn't work, you know. So the idea of much respect for everybody, it doesn't have to, it's for you, it's for you, it's for you. It's this mutual exchange that's important to me that I want people to know that's sort of where I'm at with it. Yeah, I think it really shows. And, you know, I respected you before I met you. I respect you even more now that I actually know you. I respect the shit out of you and I'm proud of you. Thank you so much, Steve. Love you

for today. Nice. If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five-star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend who'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emagreed is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emagreed. Our executive producers are Corrine Gilliard Fisher, Derek Brown and me. Our executive producers from Odyssey are Maddie Sprung Kaiser, Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design. and engineering by Bill Shorts. Angela Paluso is our Booker,

original music by Charles Black, video production by Evan Cox, Kurt Courtney, Andrew Steele, Carlos Delgado, and Arnie Agassi. Social media by Olivia Holman. Special thanks to Brittany Smith,

Sydney Ford, my team's at the lead company and WME, Mora Karen, Josephina Francis, Hillary Shuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose,

Tim Miko, Sean Cherry, and Lauren V. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at Aspire with Emmergre. Greed is spelled G-R-E-D-E. That's Aspire A-S-P-I-R-E with Emmergreed. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emigreed. All. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari.

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