At Issue - Carney meets Trump in Washington – again

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

At Issue special edition: Prime Minister Mark Carney meets with U.S. President Donald Trump to try and reach a deal on tariffs. Rosemary Barton hosts Chantal Hébert, Andrew Coyne and Althia Raj.

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A message from the Elementary Teachers Federation of Ontario. This is a CBC podcast. Hey there, I'm Rose Murray Barton, this week on a mini at issue for Tuesday, October 7th. We want Canada to do great, but, you know, there's a point at which we also want the same business. We're competing for the same business. We're going to get the right deal. Right deal for America. Right deal, obviously, from my perspective for Canada.

There's a desire to see how we can. starting with the steel and aluminum sectors, structure something that would be in the economic and security interests of both countries. This week we're asking, is a friendly Oval Office meeting cause for hope? Was it in any way a political win for the government yet? So what do we learn from that meeting? Is a friendly Oval Office meeting cause for hope? Was there any sort of political win for the government?

I'm Rosemary Barton, here to break it down tonight. Chantal Ibert, Andrew Coyne, Althea Roche. Thanks everyone for being here on a Tuesday. Chantal, it was a very friendly meeting, but at this stage, nothing has changed, although talks continue apparently tonight and maybe into tomorrow. What did you make of it? Well, I guess first things first, nothing bad seemed to happen. So no one is walking away worse from Canada standpoint than going in,

which in these circumstances is already a good place to start. clearly at this point, and who knows for how long, Mark Carney and Donald Trump seem to have a fairly cordial relationship, which is not necessarily bad. Now, the rest of it depends on whether you think that Mark Carney's team learned a lesson from what happened last spring, i.e. saying or raising expectations as opposed to lowering them. And they lower the expectation going into this meeting. Maybe they still are, maybe they still think they will come out of this with something that looks like not an empty hand, but we won't know for a couple of days. They seem to have learned a lesson around timelines anyway, because no one is talking about deadlines or timelines as they were both times before, the Prime Minister and Dominic LeBlanc.

Andrew, what did you make of the tone of the meeting and what it might tell us? Mr. Trump certainly likes Mr. Carney. My theory is because he looks like he's. from quote-unquote central casting. It may be because he's a white male millionaire, but for whatever reason, they seem to get along fine. How much that actually cuts ice and gets us any benefits, I think, remains to be seen. They were wise, as Chantal said,

to have lowered expectations going into this meeting. I'm not sure they necessarily lowered them quite enough. Unless a last-minute miracle happens, which is certainly possible, but they don't seem to have gotten very, very much. and I'm increasingly concerned about the outlook for the renegotiation of Kuzma, as I prefer to call it NAFTA, in that A, it looks like tariffs of some kind are here to stay. We're in the position that other countries are of trying to simply minimize the damage.

And B, they're talking increasingly of trying to cut it out into two bilateral deals rather than a trilateral deal, which is very much not in our interest. If you have two bilateral deals, that's a hub and two spokes. The investment tends to locate in the hub. Althea. I think my colleagues are being very diplomatic, cordial, fine. It was almost like a contest of who could suck up to whom the most. It was very uncomfortable for all the talk about Barack Obama and Justin Trudeau having a bromance.

Nothing came close to what we witnessed today in the Oval Office. But sending that aside, and I'm going to set aside the Kuzzi, discussion. I think what's most concerning is what we don't know about this. So nobody has been very direct. The president said in his comments that we had basically agreed to sign on to the Golden Dome, the missile defense program. That's 200 plus billions of dollars. But Dominic LeBlancis refused to acknowledge whether or not Canada had agreed to do that. Dominic LeBlaught talked about an energy partnership with the United States in exchange for relief over

sectoral tariffs and steel and aluminum. An energy partnership with the United States? I was under the impression that the whole point of building out our energy was to court new markets and to reduce our interdependence and our dependence on the United States. So I think there are some questions

that deserve to be asked and answered. Sure. One of the things LeBlanc also said was that the White House has asked them not to talk about the details of the negotiation and certainly that's something the prime minister but that is a resetting of the relationship that they did not campaign on sure chantelle yes uh for those of us who are old enough to remember the free trade briefings when we negotiated the initial free trade agreement with the united states this was not a briefing of any kind uh and lvia is totally right we don't have a clue uh what happened today

where this is going or where it will go. We are by now judging this by give it three, five, six days. And if nothing happens, then nothing happened. That's basically where Canadians are. Part of the reason we don't know anything may be that they don't know anything. You are dealing with this White House with two levels of negotiations, maybe more than that. But certainly you've got Trump himself for whom it is mostly about satisfying his psychological needs to be at the center of attention, and to have praise showered on them.

And so every world leader who's dealing with them has basically hit on this strategy. They're managing a toddler. But you've got people around Trump who have varying ambitions and various objectives. They're united, it seems, by a protectionist ideology, a belief that, you know, rather than, for example, having rationalizing production of automobiles North America wide to everyone's benefit, that it's a zero-sum game. it can only be one country wins at the expense of another. And dealing with those people and these conflicting or multiple objectives,

multiple ambitions, I think, would try the patience of any negotiator. Chantal quickly, and then last word to wealthier. Yes, I understand the impatience and the opposition seizing on this, but I do think that there is a test on the main opposition party to show what else it would do if it were sitting in Mark Carney's place. And if there's no out. come. If nothing comes of this second meeting, Althea, how

damaging is that for the prime minister? I don't think it's that damaging because I don't think that many Canaan's really expected something to emerge from it, frankly. But surely they expected something, some resolution at some point for the economy. It's bad when you look at job

losses. It has huge consequences for a country, but in terms of like political damage to the government, I just think it fits in a narrative that has already been established over the last few months. Chantal? Same here. I can't add to that. I don't think people waited for a deal today, and I don't think that they believe that Mark Carney is not doing what he needs to do on this. Quick last word, Andrew.

I don't think it does huge damage. I do think it lets a little more air out of the tires. There's just a gentle diminution in people's assessment of Mark Carney as having initially been this kind of Superman, and I think he's much less viewed that way now. Okay, maybe something will happen between now and Thursday, and we'll have something fresh to talk about. But thank you for being here on a special Tuesday at issue. Appreciate that. We'll be back in your feeds, as I said, on Thursday for our regular show. That's our special mini at issue for the Prime Minister's second visit to the White House. What did you make of it?

Are you still hopeful a deal can be made or carved out for certain tariffs? Let us know. You can send us an email, ask at cbc.ca. We will be back here on Thursday for our regular show. Thanks for listening.