At Issue - Could ‘America First’ mean Canada’s next? Analysis from CBC Washington

Episode Date: January 17, 2026

There’s a new CBC podcast we think you’ll enjoy. Two Blocks from the White House takes a clear-eyed look at what’s happening in the U.S. right now and examines how it stands to impact Canadians. In the first episode, reporters from CBC’s Washington bureau dig into America’s increasingly aggressive global posture. Has President Donald Trump’s promise of “America First” evolved into something closer to American imperialism? And what are the consequences for Canada?For more unscripted, smart analysis from journalists with a foot in both countries and a press pass to the White House, find and follow Two Blocks from the White House wherever you get your podcasts, or here: https://link.mgln.ai/2BFTWHxAtIssue

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This is a CBC podcast. Hey there, we're back with another episode for you today from the brand new weekly podcast from our crack reporters in Washington. Two blocks from the White House is what it's called. American politics with Canadian contexts. Every Wednesday, Paul Hunter and Katie Simpson, my friends, will sit down with their colleagues to talk through some of the big stories in the U.S. Capitol and ask the big question, what does it mean for Canada? You'll get smart unscripted conversations from reporters with a foot in both countries and a press pass to the White House. We'll have the first episode of two blocks from the White House for you now. Take a listen.

Okay. We are just two weeks, believe it or not, into 2026. It may feel like a lifetime already. Paul, Willie. If you had one word to describe, oh, say, the events so far here, Washington, what would it be? I got a million words, man. Overwhelming, unreal.

Insane. Unhealthy. There's too much. You know what I mean? I think it's not to get all in the weeds here, but I think it's unhealthy for democracy because there's too much to cover, so nothing gets covered properly. Nothing sticks. Interesting that you use the word democracy, because I might describe it as undemocratic as well.

In a kind of way it is, yeah, because the whole idea of what we do in journalism is to try to report the news so people can understand what's going on and make decisions in their life. But the news cycle under Donald Trump changes so quickly. It's this tsunami of something new every day. It's impossible to keep up. And that's why it's, I think, unhealthy for democracy. And we know that it's by design. We've heard from, you know, Donald Trump's advisors in the first term.

It's flood the zone. Flood the zone. And it works. The word I was going to pick has nothing to do with you guys just said. I was going to pick Epstein. Because you know what we're not talking about? You know what we're not talking about? That's all part of the same thing, though.

We're all making the same point. Yeah. That's exactly it. So, you know, to that point, we are living in this moment where major events are happening so quickly, no slowdown over the holiday break with the U.S. military launching an operation in Venezuela on January 3rd, capturing President Nicolas Maduro and his wife. U.S. President Donald Trump is speaking from Palm Beach, Florida. hour after U.S. forces carried out an overnight attack in Venezuela's capital.

Across Caracas, Venezuelans captured the extraordinary scenes on their cell phones. We're going to run it essentially until such time as a proper transition can take place. Mr. Maduro had been taken to Guantanamo Bay and Cuba before being flown to New York, where he was indicted on drug trafficking and weapons charges. What a wild scene. You know, right before we went. on holiday, we were kind of joking that it would be December 24th, whatever day kind of had the maximum impact of messing up your holiday plans. But to be honest, even though we were talking about it and seeing the buildup over three months from the beginning of September, I would be lying

if I told you that I saw this happening. And Paul, not long after the world learned of what happened, you were right out of the door. My phone rang that morning and you know when it's work calling at 7 a.m. The next thing you're going to be doing is getting in the shower and packing. And we got to the Venezuelan border. But to your point, Willie, I too thought someone's going to chicken out. Someone's going to back down. Somehow it won't come to this. But it did. And it was like, oh, my God, here we go. You know. Now, you just got back a couple of days ago and we're going to get into what you saw and what you learned. Since so many people understandably are wondering, Is all of this just the beginning of an imperial foreign policy from the United States?

That is what we're going to be talking about today on this first episode of our new podcast, two blocks from the White House, which is where we're sitting right now in the Washington Bureau. I'm Katie Simpson. And I'm Paul Hunter. And I'm Willie Lowry. Okay. So, Paul, I want to start with you, you know, shortly after U.S. forces went into Venezuela. You were at the door deployed to neighboring Colombia.

We're going to ask you about, you know, what you saw on the ground firsthand. But I think first before we get into that, Willie, sort of walk us through the lead-up to this military intervention. Absolutely. So we have to go back to September, beginning of September. We have the first U.S. strikes on these alleged drug boats in the Caribbean. And it begins this quickly escalating crescendo, I think is the word, I'm looking for it. of U.S. military action in the region. Trump for months kind of publicly mulls and toys with the idea of getting rid of Maduro,

and then all of the sudden he does it. And in incredibly striking fashion, but there are a lot of factors at play, and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the U.S. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who made a career on the Senate floor of basketball. Venezuela, bashing the Maduro government. This has his fingerprints all over it. But there was a bunch of stated reasons, right? It was Maduro is an illegitimate president.

The U.S. is worried about links with Iran and Russia and China and Cuba, that Maduro was a narco-terrorist. Indicted in New York. Exactly. By the way, this didn't just begin with Trump. Biden was on the same page, right? But at the end of the day, it became as evident as could be, it was about oil. Venezuela has the largest amount.

By a significant amount of oil. Interestingly, to Canada, same kind of oil in northern Alberta, right? That the U.S. has an ability to refine, and the U.S. wants that, and now is saying it will control that oil. That's, at the end of the day, say what you will about all the other things, right? It was about the oil. I think that's as clear as can be. And Trump is saying it out loud. It's not a secret.

It's not, yeah, it's, it's spoils of war, essentially. Paul, you were in Columbia. Tell us what you saw when you got to the border with Venezuela. People coming across, which, by the way, they do a lot because the cost of living is much more acceptable to Venezuela in Colombia than it is in Venezuela. Prices are cheaper. Jobs are more plentiful, et cetera. But people were coming across in the days after all of this. And, you know, I don't know, what were people expecting?

Like flag waving? Yes, this is fantastic. It was a real mix of feelings from people. Yes, Maduro's a bad guy. That's why there were so many Venezuelans in Colombia. Not only the ones coming across, but the ones already living right on the borderlands where we were. So good on him to go. But on the other hand, we can solve our own problems.

And on the other hand, once Delsi Rodriguez was put in, as his replacement. It's like, well, what has changed? It's like it's not a regime change. Yeah, they got rid of Maduro, Venezuelans told me, but for what? And wait a minute, you want the oil? Somebody said, it's in our ground. You can't just have it, right? Venezuela nationalized the oil industry, right? Which is legal. You're allowed to do that, right? And most countries around the Saudi Arabia has done the same thing? Happens all over the world. You have to compensate. And that's the sticky point with Venezuela. Exxon never got the money, and that's an important detail.

But they're legally allowed to nationalize, and they did that. And the way the Venezuelans that I spoke with see things, that oil is in our ground. We own it. We get to control it. But it's good that Maduro's gone. Was there a sense of uncertainty and fear on the ground there that you could get a sense of? Well, let me tell you a little story. So we were meeting with Venezuelans coming across for a few days. And then we got word that we could get across into Venezuela.

They weren't handing out visas. So we were invited, nudge, nudge, wink, wink by Venezuelan authorities to cross into Venezuela to meet with the Bolivarion collectivos. And these are the paramilitaries who effectively terrorize the countryside and to support the Maduro regime. We could go over there. we would be taken by armed motorcyclists who would surround the vehicle we were in,

take us 15 minutes into the jungle where these collectivos would come out, masked up with guns, to say, we stand by the Maduro regime, and if the United States thinks they're going to come in here and run this place, they've got another thing coming. And so what happened was, we're going to go the next day,

and then we get word from the collectivos that we've seen some, some ELN and some FARC fighters who are Colombian. Because this are the major drug trafficking areas. Cocaine labs up and down these borderlands. Things got too dodgy. These guys wanted to meet in a no-go zone where there'd been kidnaps just two days earlier.

We decided the story wasn't worth it. So we let it go. The reason I tell you this story is because it underlines the uncertainty. The militants in that region are a real problem. They're a problem for us, and they are definitely, they will definitely be a problem for oil companies if they want to go back in and for the United States. If I'm ExxonMobil, and we heard from the CEO, right, who says it's uninvestable right now. If we look at the legal and commercial constructs and frameworks in place today in Venezuela, today it's uninvestable. Right? It's going to take a decade to get things up

and running again in hundreds of billions of dollars. Are you going to want to spend that in that kind of a circumstance? I don't know. It's complicated. And, Willie, it sort of was a reality check to this image that the Trump administration is projecting. We heard the energy secretary last week say, listen, lots of oil companies want to come in. My phone is blowing up.

Donald Trump sort of echoing the same kind of message. And then in that meeting, we heard essentially a reality check. Yeah, a lot of reservation, as Paul alluded to. Venezuela is not a stable country. its infrastructure for oil is incredibly outdated. This is a massive, massive undertaking that essentially was done unilaterally by the Trump administration. And so there's a lot of apprehension on the part of big oil and of oil companies of going back in there.

One of the issues with a lot of what President Trump has tried to do from a foreign policy perspective, but also from a domestic standpoint when you look at the implementation of tariffs and the attempt to kind of draw industries back to the U.S. This is not something that happens in six months a year. This is a decades-long process. And I don't know if the American people have that kind of patience for it. No, and one thing that also stood out to me after that meeting that took place with the oil executives is that by Sunday. So that happened on a Friday, then by Sunday.

Donald Trump's on his way from Mar-a-Lago back to Washington, D.C., and he's talking to reporters on the plane. And he's visibly upset with the answer from ExxonMobil saying, well, maybe we'll keep them out. And it's just such a reminder, even if ExxonMobil doesn't want to go in, it's a reminder of how Trump's moods, if you offend him, he'll use that as reason or base to make a decision, whether you're a foreign leader, whether you're a business leader, whether, whatever capacity you deal with the president or the Trump administration in. Don't poke him. Don't poke him. You have to, they're essentially playing this. kind of game of appeasement. But the question that I often ask is how much of it is just public

appeasement to kind of let him hear what he wants to hear and then not actually following through. And I think that's the thing, right? So he can paint this picture of success because he sees all of these big companies and sometimes countries bending to his will. But we are still in that period where we don't actually know if they're following through with those kinds of Because the news cycle to go back to square one of it. It changes so quickly, things are forgotten the next day. Exactly. Okay, so we have a lot more ground to cover here, including, you know, what other countries might be part of this, you know, the so-called Don Roe doctrine.

And we'll get into that in just a moment. But first, I want to shout out to anyone listening on Spotify to leave us a note in the comment section to tell us what you want to hear about in 2026. Or you can also send an email to Washington Pod, all one word. at CBC.ca. That's WashingtonPod at cBC.ca. And don't forget to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode. This ascent isn't for everyone.

You need grit to climb this high this often. You've got to be an underdog that always overdelivers. You've got to be 6,500 hospital staff, 1,000 doctors all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. Defined by our uphill battle in a hospital. always striving towards new heights. And you can help us keep climbing.

Donate at lovescarborough.ca. Why BDC for my business? The timing's right. Everything's in motion. Economy's changing. It's all about automation, AI. So I said to myself, take the plunge. Yes, I need a loan, but I also need a hand

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But of course, the success of this operation only seems to have emboldened Donald Trump, who is now making all kinds of threats. Paul, you were in Colombia when Trump was talking about going in and carrying out a similar operation in Colombia. Yeah, but you know what's interesting about that beyond on its face is that the whole Columbia thing, which has been brewing for a while. I mean, Trump and Colombian president, Gustavo Petro, hate each other, right? And they've been having this war of words for a while. But the reason this bubbled over wasn't a proclamation by Donald Trump. It was a question from a reporter who said, well, effectively, would you do the same thing in Colombia?

I forget the quote, but it was something. I think he says something to sound good to me. And I was in Colombia when it's like people lost their minds. Well, we're next, right? And then on the, I think it was the Thursday, there were going to be nationwide demonstrations in Colombia, anti-Trump stuff, organized by Petro, right? And I was talking. There were marches in Kukita where I was, and we had a crew in Bogota.

And we're just waiting for the president to come out, President of Columbia, to sort of say what his next thing was. After he already said Trump has a senile brain. all this kind of stuff, right? And all the people in the demonstrations are anti-Trump stuff, Trump bad, you know, dirty, rotten Yankee imperialists. And then out comes Petro to say, well, I just got off the phone with Donald Trump. Yeah. And what an honor to speak with him.

And all these bad things that he thinks about me were lies by my political opponents and everything is unicorns and rainbows. And I'm going to go to the White House and everything is hunky-dory. It's like, what? Like what? It was a little Mamdani-esque because Trump had the same response on true social as well, saying essentially, you know, great guy, great leader, great conversation. Milk and honey, exactly. But it's like once you can unpoke the bear, the bear goes back to stay. Take that finger back. And so that whole sort of. So that threat seems to have gone away and it went away quickly. But the other threat that is not going away and that it keeps coming up.

Time and time and time again really is Greenland. Yeah. So to be fair to Trump on this, he divulged his desires for Greenland in the same way that he ended up kind of a bashing on Colombia. It was on Air Force one Sunday night a few days after the attack on Venezuela. He also asked the question by a reporter. He said, Greenland, Greenland, I don't want to talk about Greenland. But then he kept talking. And of course, he went back to something he said many times on the campaign trail and in the lead up to his inauguration and after that he wants Greenland.

He thinks the U.S. needs it for security reasons. Of course, Greenland Arctic Territory, the U.S. wants more, wants to be able to protect and insulate itself from rivals like China and Russia and just sees it as a very strategically important piece. of land. And you know, it did come up on that plane. Donald Trump keeps giving these news conferences on the planes on Sunday nights. I work a Sunday to Thursday shift. So I wait Sunday night for them to come out. And he usually says things that completely up under the news cycle again, you know, in this unprecedented moment. And this was a news conference that really stuck to me as, as he said thing after thing after thing. And it was clear that he was so emboldened after the Venezuela operation being a success, that he was just going to say all of these things that he wanted to do and he was feeling powerful.

But what really sort of struck fear in the heart of leaders across Europe, NATO allies, is Stephen Miller, who went on CNN the next day, was interviewed by Jake Tapper. And he also sounded emboldened, talking about how, well, if the U.S. wants to take Greenland militarily, who's going to get in the way? You can talk all you want about international niceties and everything else. But we live in a world, in the real world, Jake, that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power. And I think Stephen Miller's comments are the most revealing about what this administration really wants, how it views the world. And, you know, we keep talking about how Trump has. has been buoyed by the military's success in Venezuela.

I think there's a few things at play. I think there's a genuine kind of amazement at how the U.S. was able to do that. I think it's a bit of a kid in a candy store. He got to watch it. He said it was like watching a movie unfold. So there is this sense of awe about what this military can accomplish. A hundred percent. How did they turn the lights out?

You know, who turned them in? Yeah. It was very well executed. At least from a purely military execution perspective. A hundred percent. And to be fair, in a way that the U.S. hasn't had that kind of military success in years because it's a very focused operation, which is very different from a sustained ground campaign or war that you saw in Iraq or Afghanistan. So a totally different kind of operation. But then there is also the sense that, okay, we got away with this, the way.

the world's not going to stop us. Where else can we go? And what else can we achieve? And Greenland is certainly on their mind. You know, really, in some ways, the operation in Venezuela, it was sort of laid out in the national security strategy that was released by the Trump administration in December. You know, what more can we learn from that sort of release, that document? So much. So this was a document that was quietly released, literally released just.

before midnight on December 4th, kind of flew under the radar. But it paints Washington retreating to the Western Hemisphere and calling for hemispheric dominance. That's what this operation in Venezuela in large part was about. This is also what Greenland is about, because of course, Greenland is in the Western Hemisphere. And so there's a few things to take note about this document. One, democracy only mentioned three times. This is a document that really paints It's a picture of a country that is only interested in what is best for itself. There's no sense of global order or global institutions like NATO that have, you know, essentially defined how the rules-based order.

They've defined how the world has interacted for the last 80 years. So this document kind of modernizes the Monroe Doctrine for the 2020s. I would just add a couple of things. One, you know, on other issues. immigration being one of them, we've often noted that Trump campaigned on that. So listen to what he says because he, to his credit, he acts on what he says. He didn't campaign on this, in my recollection, but it's written out there. So if you apply the same thinking, read this document because this is what he slash they want to do.

And, you know, we talk about, you know, the pushback against Trump and his administration, on this American imperialism is that it doesn't put America first, right? But does it? But the argument They're trying to make now that this is America first. To all the things that you're, that's what made me think, all the things you're just saying, Willie, it makes America stronger, more secure. That is putting America first, per the rhetoric from the administration. I wonder, this is looking way sort of down the calendar. But right now at this stage, looking ahead to 2028, whoever's going to be the presidential nominee to succeed Donald Trump. Right now, and again, this is years out.

It looks like a horse race between J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio, the vice president and the Secretary of State. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has led very publicly this foreign interventionist policy what's gone on in Venezuela. J.D. Vance has not been as public about it. The Trump administration, the White House is saying, listen, there's no, J.D. Vance is involved. He sort of questioning, you know, reports that he's uncomfortable or whatever, but I wonder going down the line if it is those two.

If they're fighting it out to be the Republican nominee, J.D. Vance says, I was not behind this. Marco Rubio led this foreign intervention and whatever comes of it over the next couple of years, however it goes. And J.D. Vance is like, I am no foreign wars. I am. And I wonder if they sort of put it out there together. Willis chomping out to big here. No, no, I'm just, and Willis the Rubio.

Rubio will be the first one to tell you that the national security strategy is his. He told me himself. Yes, sir. And that row right there. Yeah, right there in the hemisphere. You recently, the White House recently put out the National Security strategy, essentially reorienting towards the Western Hemisphere. It was good, right?

How is a strategy going to you? Well, I was involved with me. So you can answer from both hats again, you know, but how is that strategy going to dictate? Looking ahead to 2028, you know, is there a scenario where J.D. Vance tries to court the hard MAGA base which he is far more connected to already than Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who came to power through the more traditional Republican senator for all these years, the more traditional path to power versus J.D. Vance, who's tried to court the MAGA. And I do wonder years from now if this is something that could be an attack point for both of them.

That's a very good question, Katie, but I think we've run out of time. Unfortunately, we have not. Guess what? I'm going to ask you this about now. You know, I think, I think what I'll say to that, I think maybe adjacent to what you're asking, but forgive me. I'm not sure people in the MAGA base give a hoot about a lot of the stuff we've been talking about. What they do care about is the price of bacon and the price of eggs, and that that will determine their vote in 2028. All this other stuff, whether or not it's putting America first. I think we care about that. I think the intelligentsia of the northeast liberal United States cares about that.

I'm just, I'm not convinced. I think they think a lot of the hardcore MAGA base that J.D. Vance may well try to court because I think Rubio is very well positioned on all this stuff. Otherwise, they just, it's white noise that comes out of the politicians in Washington. And I think Trump understands that and he's understood that for a long time. But I think you're right about the base that ultimately they care. about domestic issues, but they like W's, right? And Venezuela, Maduro is a W. And I think Trump, on a foreign policy level, he's had some wins and he can at least point to these

as, you know, evidence of his success. And they're feel good wins for many Americans. For sure. You know what we haven't heard a lot of with all of this imperialist talk. I know where you're going. We have not heard about Canada becoming the 55. first state. I'm wondering if Trump's not focusing on Canada, do either of you think that, you know, Canada can take a deep sigh of relief and say, okay, this imperialist vision doesn't include Canada? Absolutely not. I think that that would be a serious mistake. I don't think that this means we're immune from this administration and that they've stopped thinking about Canada. I think it would just take a, it would take somebody asking him. Exactly. Have you forgotten about the 51st state in Canada?

And then all of a sudden, it's headlines for the following two weeks. The other thing is, I don't think that at any point, Canada should breathe a sigh of relief, but in a sort of different context, that Donald Trump has made it very clear through his economic policy and his tariff agenda, that he wants companies to leave whatever country they're based in and move to America and set up shop and create uncertainty that makes it difficult for countries to court investment. It makes it very difficult to grow and keep jobs. Canada is on the front line of that, the Canadian manufacturing sector, the Canadian auto industry, and all of that turmoil is making it very, very difficult for workers, for companies, and for leaders to sort of navigate.

And I do not think at any point Donald Trump is going to let up on that. He has openly said, we don't need their cars, we don't need their lumber, we don't need their products. And so I do not think that Donald Trump is going to ease up on this quest to deliver on a promise that he did make to workers in Michigan. workers in Pennsylvania, workers in Ohio to try and draw back those kinds of factories. And by the way, do you think the next president will reverse and send those jobs back to Canada? Of course not. So the moral to Canada is this relationship has indeed changed perhaps forever. Be careful about poking the bear, tread carefully, create, strengthen, renew trading relationships with other parts of the world. because this one, the United States, is a different partner than it was a year ago.

All of this illustrates just how difficult a tightrope that Prime Minister Mark Carney has to walk here. And there's no easier obvious solutions in trying to interact with this president is really, really hard. Donald Trump has made it clear, speaking to four reporters from the New York Times that international law is not going to be, what guides him necessarily. Do you see any checks on your power on the world stage? Is there anything that could stop you if you wanted to? Yeah, there's one thing. My own morality, my own mind.

It's the only thing that can stop. Not international law. And that's very good. I don't need international law. That is a scary proposition. I think it's one of the most sobering things we've heard from him. It's... And truthful, right?

And truthful. No, exactly. It's all bets are off. And I think he's feeling particularly empowered right now. And I think what we just heard in that clip underlines that. On that very sobering note, I think that that is a good place to leave the conversation for now. But clearly there is a lot more more to talk about. And that is what we're going to be doing here every week on two blocks from the White House. So I'm looking forward to spending more time with both of you. It's going to be fun. I think what is so interesting. interesting about this country is I could not tell you or predict what we will talk about next week because things move so quickly. Or because I don't want to think about it. Those are my last words. This is going somewhere, but we don't know where it's going to go. And that's, I mean, that's the madness of it and the fun of it.

All right. Make sure you hit follow so that you don't ever miss an episode. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Katie. Thank you. That was an episode from two blocks from the White House to keep up with the latest news coming out of Washington. and you need to these days, find and follow the show wherever you get your podcast so you don't miss an episode. Thanks so much for listening. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.