Au Parloir - Épisode #121 - Me Fernando Belton

Episode Date: December 21, 2025

Dans cet épisode, je reçois Me Fernando Belton, avocat criminaliste et expert en profilage racial, pour une discussion essentielle sur le racisme systémique et la justice au Québec.Il revient sur l’histoire bouleversante d’un jeune homme de 15 ans abattu par un policier le 21 septembre dernier à Longueuil, un drame qui soulève des questions profondes sur nos institutions et nos biais collectifs. Un échange lucide, humain et nécessaire. Hébergé par Acast. Visitez acast.com/privacy pour plus d'informations.

Hello, everyone, welcome a new episode of the podcast, O'Parloor. I've got a new new site internet, cedricuebergeron.com. It's the same address, but new site, more functionalal, you've accessed directly

to all what's to do podcast, to all what's to my career humoristic. So, the link for the Patreon, is to pay you have access to episodes

at the advance and without publicity, the YouTube, my resos, all, the vettment on collaboration with Ann Rowe,

the link is there. click direct, you want to commande these vett, or at a parloor at 15, you've got the 15% of rabbe,

so you just just over the tax on that on the time. Today, I've received M. M.

Fernando Belton, criminalist, specialized in profilage racial. Pries two,

because I should have it was a second a few weeks of a week of Semen, it's a date, we're a bit of advance in the tournage. At the moment when I turn this episode, we're at

almost mid-October. He's not been the first time, because there a young man of 15-year-old who has been tued by a policeier at Longueyghurie. And it's he, the family, they've engaged in the fund for, for being their avocat in this story. So the first time we'd have turned

together, it had to be produced, so he macket of time. It's really interesting, and it's not the first time that I received an avocat, and I've already

received other people who are not criminalized, the person who have already, these podcasts, that, the person who they've already

that's a question there on saying that it's a project on saying that it's a universe carceral, but I think

it is essential at the occasion that I receive an ancient police, that I receive of the people who who travel

so with the DPI, or in reinsertion, or with the itinerants, or the avocas.

I think these episodes are essential. Even if are maybe more flamboyant, more frappant,

are quite even essential in this universe, so much for those who they're if it's

not the kind of episode that's It's very much. It's a time. And we

come with something other. I think important, I think it's particularly that because we

talk about a profilage racial, we talk about a racism systemic, and I think that's an issue of society that

is extremely important with what we in the society in general, but in the society Quebec-oise

in this moment. I think We're a people evolved of an people capable of to submit these oyer

when it's that we're and it's for that I think that's important and is essential. Again, one time I repeat,

I don't know necessarily the gestures, the gestures by my invetered by my inveter that's an person who prone to

the liberty of expression. I like the people who are people who are here. Today, the podcast

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there a two seven around and you're an an avococanist specialised in profilage racial and other so there's two weeks we'd have to be

there to be a bit context to people in this moment when we're talking on on mid October and you me, I mean, it's a

young of 15 years of a guy, and the family has been to be engaged for

them to be able to do you know, the concept that's a minute, the media had been a lot of

so, we're doing, we're we're going to get a bit, I imagine that it's still

for me. For me, not for the family, but for me, but for me, the

family, but for me, I'm very content to be here here today. It's a pleasure

really, really, partaged. I like the enver of the medehr, a advocate, criminalist, in plus with

certain specialities, I think that interesting. I think my auditors also think it's interesting, to have a

other angle. I'm going to always the emphasis, we're not so, we're not really, but I can't even

curious, what is he puts a young, you know, I'm asking a little out of camera, what's

what he puts a young to become a vokokok, avocat. Now, I'd say, pressure

parental, or the reason to help you know, it's not really the three reasons of the question we're

going to be a vokate. You know, my genus to me had been a little, we're saying,

okay. I'm a young who was, I had a lot of facility at the school,

the profs me it's super intelligent, etc. But I fute the man,

okay, it's, it's, it's not that, And, you know, I've had, I think, I've seen, I've seen, I think, Madame Lucille Lumlin,

a professor of sixth-year-a-annet, who, when she saw that, she had, she had a talent, but he doesn't get a... They're a bit. You know, she made it in a camp of year. I think to Diane Scott, my directorist who made

something that I... I'm... I'm... I'm returning, there recently, in recent, she said, Fernando, a day, you'll be in the journal. So, for something of good. or for something of

a mal. And I'm said that at 12 years this power my never quitted.

It's a something it's been something of something strong in my spirit

and it makes that it when I when I was like a bit replaced

and that I'm like my parents my my my my

say it's they're replaced like like like some my parents

that my parents wanted that I'm doctor. And, I'm like a certain moment, I

me see reconnected with the desert that I had since I was, from the end up that it was to be able to debate, et cetera, and to,

to, to find my point of view. I'd say that the first motivation that I had when I was when an advocate, is I

saw the fame, I'd the bell auto, I'd saw yet the car, I was certainly, there was nothing of

of what I do today that's a rapport with the reason for the reason for the I'm trying to and that's

quite quite quite quite quite quite I'm in time, you know, I love what you know, when you're,

when you're young, want to be a great chan, want to be place, to play, to play,

to play, to be, to be a great, it's correct, it's good that, to have

the views, and the motivation, I, I think, it's correct, but there there's some of

these things, I'm and I'm doing, I'm going to be able to get to a HLM

Okay, you know, to get to where that's the point? The VAL. Okay.

And, and I'm my parents were not separated by my parents, but my father

because there had an opportunity of employment there, my mother had sick of

un-of- it was, it was not morn monoparental, but, you know, during

my dad, we're we're on three, four four per per

year, so it's who they have they're like, they're able to, and we know they're able to get to be able to

and you're like, where's the place in over all over this? There's choice. There's young. I'm, I'm really,

like my relation with God that's changed a lot of my life. You know, it's the gym, there's whatever,

but I, you know, there's a certain moment in my view where I'm just that I'm connected with God

and I said like, 16 years, I'm locked in, six years, I'm looking, what I'm what I wanted

to do, and after that there had just it had to find out of the way to go to go to go and the first that's, I was going to have been,

you know, I've started, you know, when I was in when I was locked in to CJA, by the same admission, we're refusing, second amade

so it's my third time that I've reached to return. And you know, but you know, these things that are that

are so much, but it's just, these things to be able to be able to to some people who passed by

this chame but it's a point. I'm in it's like I'm doing here and I'm doing after two

detox. The 8th before, finally. The 8th I'm made for me by choice

but the seven I have made are important even if I'm not really up because there

there's a thing, it's sure that on the course it's a but the third time

when you it's been a salle a realte to, you'll not you'll do it but I'm you'll be

not you're doing, but I'm doing, don't three I'm trying to I'm a fucking mental,

he's doing it's like, the idea is the people will be going to my career that I'm

like, especially in the media never they will never, you know, he's saying at the university

et he has really been refusing in droid two times yeah I'm I'm

refus that I'm humorists that I'm humorous that I prefer, and I'm like, I'm afraid, I'm there's a lot of people who are refused two, three times at the school

of the humor, and that everybody can't get, you know, and you know, and you have been refused at the school of the people the people the most of the

people that I've never viewed in my life, so you know, but you know, there's a link with the crime of a young, or even

of a person, in a manner general, the reality is we know, we know, we know not, we know this potential, you know, often,

the people will be will be able to analyze, they're going to to watch to where's that you're today,

it's a story of the story that's the story that's the story you can be, and I think it's it's a beau to have some

people who are people who are in a good position or in a moment of their life and he will be the

potential that the other are not in the other people. Hello, I'm in direct to

Mos Studio, and I'm a few second to you talk to you know, the more old command of

who is with us, we had two, three, thousand visioned by episode, and he was there, and sincerely, if he had not been there, I don't even if this project that exists because they've really helped financially, at the beginning, and I just want to be here that's why I did this little video,

and compare my prime, and there are a lot of people who are saying, hey, you're talking of an affid insurance, it's what, in privy, the people make me really, I'm going to take time to you'll explain to you so, compare my prime, he's specialise in insurance-vis,

so they're the conciergey, in insurance that's who have for but they're no case they're

their speciality no case because when you get to an certain age as you're

a dossier and if you have a disease like a cancer it's extremely hard

to have quite impossible to have an assurance they they're they want to

have they're if you're not sure that you're assurable you think that's

not sure you contact they will have an assurance of life. It's important for not to let your in the need in the business.

Compare my premium. And, you know, my professor, Lucille Lemlin, which I talked with her, in fact, with her account Facebook,

I'm saying that, with her account Facebook during the pandemic because I was because I'd have nothing to do, because I'd like to

go, and you're not to play with, you. Exactly. And it's someone who gired his account because she'd

decided to from the concert, and who he said, I just said, Fernando, that Lucie talked to

your time to be very very proud of and then you and I'm really, it's a lot of, it's really

really, but, you know, I'm who I've had seen a 12-year, who had to say,

I've got a part in, just, the changement that has had been, and I

think that's something really really. 100%, really. What's when,

one when you I mean, is I'm not talking in my proper question, but when you're studied for to become an advocate,

is that you do you do with your time, the way that's the way civil, right matrimonial, right criminal,

or you have to learn in group, and one when you're a very good question. There's a

there's many ways to do it's, I'm going to do you know, they're from their

idea of fete, they know they know they're they're going to be criminalists, and that for me,

it's like the thing, but the reality is that's not the world that's not the people who are able to be able to

do you know, the people who are in the people who are they've been, they're in their parents who are in

their parents who are people who are people who has been, but the reality, I know,

I didn't have any idea. No, it's not, it's not pre-established that's,

no, the reality is that during that I was when I was like an advocate civilist, I'd adored

the right the right of the right, the right, I mean, I've never the reflection juridic

around the Code of Civil but the but at the no, but at the most it's at least it's at least it's correct

but it's correct but where is it's a clicker there are two moments there are two people that I've met up in my life

it's Lida Sarah Nourin and Nicholas St. Jacques who are two advocates who are made a course

to court to school and this court that is a place in a right crime criminal

where is we did really the practice of the of the in the case of the school at the

fun, because it's, it's, it's a very much influence the way of the way

and the way that I'm in the same of the clings of the public because I'm an experience

practice, because I'm at the best that's the you're also. You're enseig at the university I'm in-draught, or...

I'm not a university in the public, so that's something that's something that I've started here

four-year-a-old, and it's a course that's on the profilage of a Russell. I'm not an important to me, finally, you know, someone, you know,

yeah, but who has been a way, but he's, he's recognized, you know, and I think, I thought it because you're

to go to the university, you know, and I, the first time that I'm my first time, I'm in a

university, in a class of university, it was I was I'm invited, and I'd had to study university,

I've got to secondaire, and I'm not the, so, to us make to do you know,

that's not really, you know, but the cause of profilage racial, it's changed my career, and it's changed

my life, in fact. We're going to be a little? Yeah, I'm going to be there on, but that's clear,

it's sure that on, but I'm still curious, I'm trying to yeah, I'm talking, I'm talking, Nicolah

St. Jack, that's, that's, like, this course that has really to change my

perception of the law of the criminal, and finally, it's a activity that when I

had been in activity of platoory. And it's parted on the drug criminal. And I remember, when we had terminated the plodoir, my colleague, the professor has said, before the 17 years ago that's the best deal that had had been there before him. And so, I remember, I'd re-engested with my iPhone. I'm still in my telephone. And it's

it's a clicker something at my. And I think that I was that I'm saying, okay, the right crime is something that I probably amy. And finally, well, I've got a of the Court Municipal of Montreal, as a procurer, so, who's been a school really fantastic.

We're four stagherers. I'm the sole stagerer that's not been retent by the Co-municipal. It's a fact a while, but today,

how I'm saying, I said, I'm going to say, why is that you've not chosen to become a prosecutor at the

way to to be at the defense? At the defense, excuse me, but it's because you've not been chosen.

You have been? Absolutely. I've adored my stage. It had six months like, you know, I'm a

remember, I'd know a lot, I'd give a new the people that's not to be in the

people who are, I'm not in the experience and the people who are, we have this syndrome that of the black

excellence, the avocators, especially, the students in the right to say, we're doing more than a

person black to be able to be able to be in your head? But who is the reality?

I'm pretty, but it's what I'm what I'm what I'm saying, that the putt, the things that have

anodine or of the importance revette an importance much more more important for us.

I'll give an example. I'm not my stage, I'm in my own work, and that is something

extremely important for me. Because it legitimed my place, it's legitimate my my,

my my new much, it's I'm not so bad after all. I'm not so

able to reach, and I'm I'm I'm written, the judge intel

my felity today. I have a where I was I'd write to

when I was when I'm to say it's for me the grapiers the advocate of the defense the procurors

of the pursuit who vets when I'm feeling when I'm that my three stagerers are pre

who are that I'm not pre it's certain that the question to know if it has a

of course that's a of course that comes in my mind that I'm in I'm

I'm I'm I'm I'm there's the prosecutor noor

so 60 in the the city the real of You know, you have these procurors who are there who have, I'd have actually, I'd say, the tissue social

of what we have. So, today, I'm not there to say, I'm not there, but it's certain that when I look at the comments that I had the judges, the milieu, of the people who said, wow, we've appreciated the work

that you do you do, and the fact that I'm the same that's a question of budget and that three months later we're engaged other avocas, well, it's sure that it trot in my,

it's true, it's not necessarily, and I'm clearly the advocate of the diom in this moment, but, you, it's not also the organism,

maybe more than the person who's because these times, I think, I think, I think,

I think, I think, I think, the city, the city of Montreal, the co-municipal of Montreal,

no, no, it's probably just the person who, who, yeah, but,

sometimes, sometimes, we're often, you, the police is racist, clearly, there are,

who they're not that they're not the police that it's certain individuals, certain people, more than other, you know, so that's what... You know, the question of the racist systemic, it's for that it's important, this concept, it's important to be to understand, it's a lot, that

how the system, in such a tell, will, by example, treat the, the candidature of the persons racialized that can't, have, I don't know, some aspects that are different, the ways to be able to be different, the cultures, who come up with,

the cultures different. And, you know, by the Is it's normal that in a grand village like Montreal, in the bureau of the procureur there's a sole procureur who is racialized? I personally, I think

I think that particular. You know? When, for example, we have a young who clearly has potential, I'm talking to me in saying that,

why we let's part while we're able to be able to keep it? After that, what has been or who has the decision?

I don't know. And the reason for the guy. Today, I know that the reason that we have done, and I know I know how I

could be able to make a judge, I'm going to give a little reserve on the reason that she made

that was done at the point. Perfect. That's, who you, he, you know, who's not

to do you, I'm not, but I'm in peace. I'm in peace, because the reality,

is that, yes, I'm in times, I'm trying, how many times time it's, how many times,

have been able to I'd be parted. Is it like, after three, four years, when I had a salary for me at the time, I'd

think it was broke. You know, I was broke. You know, I was broke. No, because the people are in no, no, no,

I was broke. I was a family, I had a family, I had a young a family, I had a year, an apartment,

I was a corrector of examines for finish my fin of month for taking to my family. So, is that I could

I'd quit the job at 75,000 for me lancet my business, maybe not, you know, but now I've been made before the fact accomplished, to dover do. So, you know, today, I'd say, thank you. It's not a choice of,

to kick the door, you know, in fact, and it's not because, you're talking about, it's not because, I'm doing at the courte municipal of Tromon.

Okay. As a general for a year and around, so I knew the procurer, the judges, I'd always the same, there were,

we're talking, and, we're, in criminal, it's these things, there's a battle, of these things like that, you know,

it's not, it's not, it's a time, it's not, I'm going to see, you know, I'm doing,

he's over those people, so, so it's not the big avocat, you know, the bureau,

it's not the person, it's not, but he engaged, just a young, who are, so,

he arrives with eight-kot ticket, and, you, see, you know, he, he, you know, he arrives

not, when he's , you know, when he's , I know, the, I'm a vocation. Contrarily,

a medician, because a medicine But you're a sure. There's a hospital that's a lot of but you're in

a lot of you know, you know, there's a vocate there's a person who are there may are admissible

to the edgeridic. It's not these blagg, I'm a I'm just I've tried on this issue there

for some years, or is I interviewer a advocate who did a bit a bit of a practice

that is extremely low. There are people who are demuny It's a cost of $400 dollar by dossier That's capable of It's able to be Like, you know,

It's a minute It's, I mean, It's just that You're admissible by the juridic? And then, there's like, Pry a step back

You remember the 14 seconds that we talked, he's like, I'm clearly admissible to be by the juridic. Financially

if I'm afraid If you're not, I'm not, the money to pay the abacca. I'm not the money to pay me myself.

There's a there, and it's important to understand because very often, for example, that we're talking of edged and to augmenting,

yes, the seyes, of admissibility, it's saying, you, Madame Etele who gain $37,000,

we want to be that it's a $40,000 for you give to do that there's a other aspect that we

have been the doci, if I'm paid, by example, presentment, $415 for an

dossier to a court municipal, because that's that the reality, how many time I'm

able to make to to defend adequately this person. And, you know, this reality

financial, this reality financial that, she has very guided my practice, because the truth is that my day, I know if I charged all the hours that I was I'd be someone

comfortable in the life, but I've been a decision, you know, I gain my life, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm playing not in this sense, but I know

that I could have three, four, four times more of money, if I'd not the number of dossiers pro bono that I was,

if I'd not the clinic journalic of St. Michael Cidichw, that I did with which I feel

because I like I like I like I'm going to but the reality is that even today I'm doing or do you know a certain person and yes to

because at a certain moment, it's all right all right. There's a moment there's always a moment that's a minute

it's always it's the same thing. You know, I have a lot of people who make people for come on

your siage I turn 52 episodes per year and I receive 52 demand by you can't you can't

you can't I can't I'm not absolutely absolutely A minute, you have to make

some of the thing, so you're a privilege to be in a general. You know, they're going

to get to get your and there's a point in I'm going to come in, I've already

already, but it's really long time, it's been the word racism systemic. And that, I'm,

when I know, when I'm , I'm even a gag in my spectacle in my

show, because I talk to I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I do a gag that's a badger

we understand that's not the punch, we're not a sport that I'm not that's not a sport,

and there are, there's not a publician about that's that pattyne in tabernic that, you see,

and that, and so, when I know, when I say that it doesn't exist not, I'm fash,

because that I'm consider like a person zero racist, is that I'm that I've been

at cause the racism systemic, I'm obliged to say, I'm obliged to say that it exists. I'm obliged to say

why? Because I've been elevated in the 80, with the parents who have grown in the 60 and 70.

And I, the expression, plan of, for me, it was not, you know, it was an expression. I'd

not the point, you know, I'd come up to my casket in the end upher,

let's be you'd be able to one. Mm-hmm. And, and I'm, I've got with these

things, so, so when you become adult, they're in it's not, it's not, it's not,

it's not, I'm not developed a in, I'm not developed a judgment, but I've got with these expressions that,

these ideos that, so that's a minute, there's a manning, in a person adult, I'm saying, oh,

my, to understand, to find, the, the line that's, okay, but it's all the

, you know, it's in grand saying, when when we're, when we're when we're when we're

not the racism not the racism systemic, and tithes in your culture, in the way that you've grown, with the carty that you've grown, with the parents that you've grown, with the things that you've historically.

Historically. The idea is that the people who understand the concept of racism as a accusation to accuse a person before her that is racist, okay?

And today it's been a insult that's a person would be perceived to that way. The reality, what we call

the racist systemic or the bi-conscient all the world of, Of course what is I have. Of course what I'm in. For what I'm going to say no. All the world.

All right. On the world. On the world. On the road. You know, in the road? You know, if it's true.

Someone's going to get a tattoo, Ted tattoo, Cedric. Automatically, he can think, ah, it's certainly a person violent. There's the crane

rasie, there's a tattoo, there's a chain, he's in shape. I'm, I'm change the board of the road. And I'll pose

a question to people who say, that it's not. How many people today march

on the board of a road, going to young black who are in the road,

and that are the new hour of the night of the way of the reality is that 90% people who listen to be

90% of people, and maybe 99% of the people in certain people, because the

perception of the image that we have the genese black, it's a youngness that's a

violence, dangerous, criminal, and who can potentially we put potentially we put to put into

prejudice. The Pue that, and I'm sure that you not just the I'm sure that there's a madam of a certain age

who lives at St. Michel. It's a time that they traverse the street also, and he's also no longer than, you know, but it's what I'm saying to, you know, it's what I'm saying, it's what I mean, it's what I mean, it's what no, no, it's exist, stop, it's not true, that it's not

that they're not. But they're, they're saying, they've been to say, well, we've been to say, yeah, we're not, it's not, it's not, assume that all the people have these prejudiced

in-the-the-the-thead, The problem is that the problem is that the Prejudgees that come, by example, the monsieur and Madame Toulm, yes, it can do mean, it's hard to certain individuals. But the problem is when it comes of these institutions,

when the institutions in-tank-tel, they've been built, in a way where is we have in the structure even, it's in a sort that we discriminate a certain type of

person by rapport to other. But it's sure is certain that it creates a lack of opportunity for the ensemble of the persons

who are discriminated. that we're talking of the logement, that we're with the police, that we're going to call, that's a lot, so there's plenty of places where we're in front of people, they don't know

the people, they don't have the same opportunities than all. And, you know, it's easy for, you know, I've heard, Charlie Cook,

I've heard one of his video recently where is he said a man black, what's what I can do, what I can do? Why he did that?

It's simple. It's that, he's, to see, he will, by example, tell or tell person who are black who have accessed to

to these end up. But is they know the story of these people who are in these people? I told you know a question. I told you

talked about to the municipal of Montreal. My colleague, I don't know me, but who has made my stage with me,

he has made a one single application for a sole stage. And he has had his stage. I have had

25 interviews, and I tell you, Cedric, and I was not like at a

a level, a I don't want to say okay, but it's very, I was sharp, I was sharp, I was good in an interview, I was capable to make express, I'm able to make, you know, my per,

it's a vendor, I'm in the sand, the vent, you know, I'm in the front, you know, when I was arrive, I had some good notes, I had a good CV. After the 25th

interview, I've already, to count the number of interviews that I've made for having the stage that I've done. My other confrard Blan, a stage,

a stage, an application, an interview, he has some stage in the poche. So, it's sure that when we arrive together around the table

and that you said you've got to have your stage but you know you know how you know how much you know how much you know the number of

people, I'm who have a colleague recently who has been to finish his stage gradually at my group because I had no place

because he had been to start, you know, he had commenced a stage that's not too well, then finally he

can't even he can't come back to be able to you can't be your lawyer, you have to be able to

you're trying what to do you because before the avocat the student, the note, they've seen a young

no more. Well, it's absolutely that. And there's there's a people who are going to be to see what

to see what they, maybe I'm going to do you and they're not, that's not, that's not that's a person

that's that's a person who has made that that's not that's not that it's not that's not

I'm going to that people that are not the people who are not the people who are just to have

the empathy, to be able to be able to and to understand that, Yes, there's a discourse today that exists

in the society Quebecoise of our government, the government logo, which is reprie with more

with more exacerbation of the government that's envian apparently of PSPP, but it's a damage,

it's a difference, what we're doing to do, is that we exercise, we're in the issue

is a systemic in refusing to the recusions, and the recognition is just to give

the chance equal to all to all. It's all. What's you think, because you know, because you know,

the image that we have, the young, noir, Arab in this moment, and all that, and we're

there's a lot, you know, to more and more, because there, you know, in, you know, in the

great time, we've had, the gross epoch, motor, we're saying, there's not a noor patched,

there's just, there's a there that's there who had been white, he, and he's decided today,

but, you know, we'd say, it's gross, we'd say, we'd say that there were there's a lot of,

and it's the difference today, what we can see in the gang of the ruse, especially in the

last year, it's very young and it's extremely violent, and it's very racised what we,

what we want, is that's the case, but at every time, ganged of me,

I've had, you know, I've had not so long there, you have not, did you, if I'm

trombe not as as as well as a manned of gang of rugh when we

do men of gang of the room that's not not I'm right I'm right so I'm

so I'm so I'm I'm I'm pretty I'm I'm trying I'm in a time to

find a group of young white I'm I'm afraid because the media me talk

that I'm I'm right to have a fear is I'm I'm a chance to

go to or no I'm I'm the good thing. You know, at a minute, it's like,

the line we have to be like, I don't be a person there, but I'm like the choice to be the person

that's not because I'm afraid. I think. But I think to touch to something. The idea is what?

Who do you talk about the gang of the road? It's the first thing I'm doing there's a

difference fundamental between the delinquence juvenile and of the criminality organized.

I, when I was young, I had when I was young because I puttue the Marede when I had 14 years. I'm just arrested, I'm going to be able to

juvenile, but I'm not a member of gangne of rue. I was just a young who was acting out and who you know what I'm saying? So, I'm at the same place than you're doing. So I'm just plenty of my clients who, all simply, it's these young who have committed, of delinquents.

And there's a system that's called the Law on Justice Penal for the Adolescent, who is there, just to encadres these young. Now, when we talk of gain ofure today, it's a term that's used to

which is used to in Quebec to talk to people. I'll tell you an example. Some years of that, I think it was in 2021, in the

Journal of Montreal, we talked to the gangne of the Rue that frothed the PCU. And there

there's an article in the journal that is written the free of the PCU and there you there's an

image to illustrate the all. In the image, we see that it's these young primarily

black, some other who are rationalized, who are in front and they're young. And the legend in the two is written in

a photo of women of gangne of the rue pre a couple in a couple of the metropole. Now, the young

who are there, they're there over 14 years, who had at the school Calixale that Valé that the journal of

Montreal has taken their photo without their consentment. They've put this photo there

they've been in their base of data, and in the base of we're categorized Gain de

Rue and it's that we that we're frustrate the members of gangne of rue, what's we take? We're in the image of the young who are black, racialized.

It's like, I'm not going to name it, but amy of an amy, I've passed, like, like, like, a member full patch of a club quite, you know,

and he, serran the man, I've been there were the bigjew that did it be in, that I'm not, he was at the same

place than me, he had a man, we had jazes two hours of, zero of criminality, But we would have been in photo and a prospect

of a club of a B.C. Absolutely. It's in any sense, you know, saying this I'm saying, what I say,

is that the image of the gang of the rue today, and the way we use in Quebec, it's for to talk to

the young black, Arab, but the reality is that it's a nooyo extremely pretty.

All the rest, it's people, people, who have, they're perhaps, who have, they're not,

80s hours, a week, to respond to their business. It's the people, for example,

for trying to take this example that, because it's not, well, because it's not, well, there's not a park to receive the

young, so the young, yes, they're in the country is the most densely people in Canada, but in the

one, you know, we have, we don't, we don't, I don't, but the society. But presentment,

it has been all the change for having a center sportive at Montreal North. There are of the issues social that we decide to

regulate, simply with the repression, whereas the problem is, it's these problems social, economic, it's not necessarily the problem of criminality. If you're preening their young, and they don't have no park, they don't have not the sports, they have not an activity, but it's sure certain they're going to find a criminality. Why, Diane

and Lucy, my meet at 12 in a camp of year to be, and you see what, this year, then, no, I'm not fute a mess. Because every year, I went, in a camp of year, I was, in a camp, I was in a company, I had something to do. I had something to do. And I had something to do.

And this reflexion, it's not in the spirit of certain politicians. And we see the color of poe as an color that's a color that represent the criminality. And that's these prejudices,

that's these stereotypes. When these stereotypes are incarned by people that have done, it's done these cases tragic like that we've had recently recently.

It's that the first crime that I've committed and the first consummation that I've had nothing to find. My parents, We had not done

We had to work. We had not a camping the fact of the week we're not on a voyage we're just

a gang of a guy who had we're not to put than the stuff the it's not the

business that's not I mean, you know, we're saying, we're coming and we cause some

and we're to get in a car, and then it makes that make some that's cool but it's

so it's well, we're going to sell some there's there's not there's there's just

there's just because we're having anything of We have to do you know what? The image of that, it's going to because you know

recently there's there's been in 2012 three young who are 14, 15, 16 years, there had a gene black, a

general, a gene black, a gene black. No one of them were being criminalized. The first minister

is going to get on the tomb of the young blind. The two

other, there's not there not had been there not there no there's not there

there. This image that is strong. Because what It's that it's that's what

the life of the young black has been in the life of while they're in the people are in

these circumstances that's similar. And it's like if we're saying or that's if it were criminalized

it's correct that's correct that's not that in the society we're in in a way that's

that we're in when we're in trying to exacerb the tension on the level of immigration

on the we're too all at the The final of that is that when a young will fall, when a young will decide, when a young

will come in these circumstances there, but there are people, I've seen, I've seen, there are things horrible that they're on the basis of the stereotype that exists, it's horrible. You know, it's just

that I even don't repeat, because I don't give them to people who are to provide that. I, what I what I detest to the system

governmental, it's that when you're elued, your view, it's an re-elue. I mean, I'm often by

the prison there's a there's a money that's invested, the reinsation and the rehabilitation

I mean, it's, you know, it's it's worth to help people to get them to be able to but invests

massively in the system carcerer. Is it Is it sexy? Is it it's good?

Is it good for so? Is it good for there? There are three young

that more but you just the black. Why? Because the people who vote

for you're going to find it more important that, and after you came to say the racism systemic exist not, and it's exactly

what you want to do, because your electors will have this thing. It's a difference of treatment. It's to say

the young black, it's sure because he was a member of gang androok that's I remember,

maybe you remember, you're a case of Pacific Nioku Niu-Kewa, it's the young at

Quebec that had his head in the and the police he had got to

the last of the my ex-o- I've made The Farah had made a grotolet. And I remember, it's a case that I represented, when I was arrived at Quebec,

first question that we pose, M. M. M. Rector Beleton, is your client is a member of Gain de Rue? Okay. First, is what the rapport? Two-em-man, the sole reason for you ask you this question, it's because it's not.

The third-em-chief, even if he was a member of Gain-D-Rue, is that we're like that we in a society, treat the people who are in order? Is it to give the legitimacy to have two class of citizens,

and to apply the rights fundamental, that we can't have done as a society for to get in function of what you have said, and it's a shocker in

people in Quebec, but I'll read again another other time, you'll say you want, Carl Girard, who has killed

five, you know, he has two people, there's a lot, that's a Halloween with his, his pen, he had not

been to get to this way, like my client. And if I had put a cat, and that I

had made his head in the nage, and that I've puttue the the nage in the face,

I'd have any I'd like to say I'd like to be, I'd barred everywhere. But when it's a noir, we'd say that's correct. It's that, the verity.

After that, if you me say you'd say you're that the racism systemic not, the examples multiply, the people of the community racialized, often those of

first generation, they, my parents, their job, was to be to work, to be to be, they were to,

they've been their guel, they've worked, they've worked, with their Gulled, Firmie. The people like

who have had been in my parents, who have done the opportunity, today I'm going to get to be able to accept this

kind of thing. Because they are members of this society there. Their father is born here, their grandpair were in the

people, they have contributed also, they're part of the Quebec, and of this society, like all the people,

they acceptor more to live in these conditions where we can't not their equality because they have

a color of different. You know, I think that the multiculturalism is a really thing is a lot of and I think

they're in saying that's a big thing, but he'll demontra not. You know, it's like, it's what you're

in, in fact, the government talks of intercultural which is different. The intercultural is a reference to the fact that we're,

yes, accept the people, but the people have adopted some values common, you know, that I'm

understand, and I, you know, I understand that we're in Quebec and that we have a

way of view, but I'm a lot of difficult with the fact that we're in the fact that

we're in a lot of everything my beauty and my difference because I don't know, it's exactly

what the English and in trying to assimiling, in their language, their religion, etc.

And I, I think not that's that we're going like that it's a point, the people,

the people vote for who they want to I'm going to give a question, who's

not to do do you know, who doesn't like to see, these things

that, I'm going to say, I'm going to you're going to a new issue, that I'm going to be able

to be able to it's a info man. Info man. With Jean, Janorone because just I think

there's a time, you know, there's the thing, there, there's, you know, the, there's, you know, they're, they're

they're, they're, they're, they're, it's what The most of the show of this is that it's really depending on how much, to look at the point you have to be the air epic when you

talk about, you know, I think, I think, I think, I think, it's, it's an issue that, I,

the, the political, I, it's, it's, my car, with all the what I see, I'd say,

the new news, I try to maintain the more, but this show that made to tell me to be able to

vote in one day per year per year, and can't be able to be able to

what's what's pass in the politics and I think it's I think I'm in

I'm in like I'm know a little you know to put in these images for you know it's a

cause it's a jacehuan it's a mann it's a because because that's

an autoctone and that the people they're all all the time they're all all the time so so

so that we can't he'll he'll get to he's dead on his cell

he's this sort of situation that's finished by appellate, you know,

is that you've got already have done to do you have done that's not that's

that's that's not that's not it's there's there's there's there's

people who people who have been of people who are to be aggressive and you

know, so, so I'm when I get to you're not you're

different I'm different. I'm this part that criminal like, you

you're not criminalists. Yeah, no, criminologist, it's a new me of course. Criminalist, you commence. It's sure you're specialise not there in. I imagine that you're at a grand port-u-u-errater. Don't know what you want. I've got to pay my business.

You've got to all right, so, that you, you'd align on whatever, crime sexual, vol, aggression, whatever. You're open at all, and you're up to all the case. Yeah, yeah. In the fact, when you came to do it, I'd say, I'd say, I'd

I'd prena, even in different domains of the rights, you know, I've made the right of the law, I've done done to do you know, I've done to do

do you know, I've done, you know, I've done, okay? But at a certain moments, I've just said that the right at the time as you

do you know, that you've been that you've been that's a that's what you make, that's but it's a case of my career,

and just that I'm going to represent all the type of person, yes, people who are accused a murder, accused of

Accused of the aggression sexual, it's a part of, it's a part of the work that's in the case that you have done? No. Okay. I'll be a story.

Okay. I have a child. I have a one of the girl who has seven one, another who has four years, it's a few years, I remember when I

started, I'm saying, when I went, in a crime criminal, I'd would never of case of persons accused against the crime

sexual, the count of the children. I don't pedophil, but I say that's like like the people say that's

not because it's not because it's not because it's not the term in the term that's and I'm

remember, a man who went to a room in my two years, who came and who

me explain that he has made his penis in the bush of an child

and he he comes to pleurry he's in bull he pleur he says he

I was just going to be I'm going to be I'm going to see I'm saying, and I'm I'd say I'd say to what I'm saying and then I'm out of because I'm not

not someone who's not he said, and it's not often, because I know the image of the people, the people think that the people think they're

saying, oh, I'm doing, it's not like exactly like that it's exactly like that's happened. And that's one of the me to see me to have been because he wanted to recognize what he has

done, and he wanted, that's that, like, that I'd to pass it through the process of criminal. And then, there's sure that it's a, it's been something to say, what I mean, what I'm saying, what I'm doing, what I'm doing to go to an other lawyer, and why I'd rather than, because it's there that he wants to go ahead.

So, at the end, my work, you know, 90% of the people who are going to come down in my bureau, it's the people who are going to play decouplead. DeFat, even 95, you know, of the process in in the right criminal, I'm not

not quite about a year, maybe five, six, some, in the times in the

best of the bad years, because the reality, is that the people who are in

their they're they're being represented before the system. We

have done in our democracy of our legal that's that we want to

we that the police face well, we're that the people

are not presumed coupable but that are presumed innocent for

to put the fardot on the state to prove the culpability of the people are in the state we're in a case where we're

not in a court that's not quite that police are to force your confession at a coup of a coup of point in your

and then you say yeah, I said, why because he will arrive at a moment where we risk to have some

we're just that's all these guarantees that's done because the view of the abocat is not necessarily

to be arrangue that person be found that's acquitted. But, yeah, no, that I would say. The view of an avocas, is to

assure that he is either a plain defense or that's all these rights be respected all the long of the procedure. I mean, you know, I said, someone who came to say

and he said to go and he decides to go in the process, you know, he said, he'll do do you know, is that you go to be able to

defend with the arms that you have for that arrange that he should be a non-coupan? Malorosom, the response, it depends.

It's to say, if we're if we're trying that's that's the that's the question that's that's,

she can't, I'm not doing, I'm not I'm not personally, I'm not, there's a limit that you franche

not. I'm not, my code deontology we don't know not, is that we're that we're not,

I'm sure, I'm not, I'm afraid, I've got to I've got to some vodka in my life who don't do

some of my life that I'm saying, I'm not in registrated. I'm not that, but after that,

but after if we're I'm in a position where, is that, by example, the proof against my client, I think or I assume that he has come in fact that. But the proof can't even not find out of his culpability, is I will defend? The reality is that, yes, because the weight of the representation, to find a couple of people, no man, compa. My, my

view is to present a defense, to represent my person, to assure that his rights are respected. But ultimately, it's a judge or a jury who will be a decision to know if there's Coupa-pubba. It's for that, you know, I'm, I'm sorry, I'm trying to when I'm

in a pleading of a cupability, is that it's sometimes, yeah, I'm especially if I'm really there's that,

or I, I think, I'm really their innocence, et cetera, but it depends not to me,

I'm not a fardow. You've done to do you have to do. I've done, I'm doing, I'm doing,

you know, it's a, it's a thing, you know, the people who are, you know, you're talking,

ah, he's, He's acquitted to that. You know, I've always said, you know, we're talking about, let's go to, let's go to a case, but you're a criminal, so you've chosen,

and you see your proper regal, because you're a criminal. So, your view, is to not to have to be the police. You've got to be in the life. But that's a type of criminal. Oh, no,

now, I'm talking to a tip. You know, you're a policeman, you've decided to attract the criminals. You know, you have these rules to respect because you're in the law. So, it's your job

to find your job as it's for that to stop to get this person to get to because the

because the know the problem and the point of the I'm doing two things that the people

the example the example that's always the example that you're talking to defunds it's always the crime

sexual on generally it's repugion I'm it's not that's not the majority of my practice

I'm like I'm I've already I've done I'm saying that So, saying that,

it's these these cases extremely difficult even for me, I'm trying to get a child for the

question, it's difficult for the advocate who will be to defend the person that's

so that we're often that we're because it's the crime for the crime that's a crime

that's horrible and that is that is for me that is in the system I'm

I'm not not honestly, I'm not not not much, but when it's

of the dossiers that I'm like, oh, nice. A good challenge. It's difficult for everyone, saying that, okay? Now, the way for me the most easy to understand for the people,

to be it's to say, if your friend, your wife, your uncle, your son, his, is accused, all change.

Your perception of, oh, you could not, do you know, because what you want, there,

is the mayor, who is accused who says, I'm not even if all the society he's not,

it's my son, I'm going to him like he and he's going to the other people that's not, a lawyer,

but an advocate that's a who will be able to the proof, he will be and that he will be able to make an

sort of he's talking to it's, you know, it's your time, it's, we're talking, we're talking,

we're talking, we're saying, if a medicine, I mean, Someone, hey, I received a cut of a cutoff, why he is in prison, he's a predator sexual,

he's been in prison, he'll be put in a minute. He'll be able to do with, he's a little more, he's not, even if it's not a pleasure, it's not bad, but it's a job

to do you do, you're interested for that, you're, you're investing at the same that's the first you know, you know,

the first of, you know, the reality, is that you don't know because I represent someone, is that I sense

the crime that's, I said that, I said that, I say, I'm just like, I don't know. Guarded in

in mind that I'm 90% of my clients, 95 in in the end of my time my time, it's not

to try to prove their culpability because the people, very often, the majority of people, but it's a

man, to you know, but the prosecutor. But I'm in the people, that there's a

question that's not, it's not like something that are the people who are not committed the judge

that we're that they're that they're that they're a lawyer, that we're at a process for

to prove that they're innocent, and then that's yeah, the police derap, does the

things that never do you that's not that's not the problem, the elements of proof that have been

recuey in the conditions that are unacceptable. You know, it's that the guarantee that we

if we're if we're going to be with, we're like with, like, as the

people who pass 38 years, and after that, oh, we're finally, the person

that we would be not heard and who would be people who's He was come here, and the police

had returned to their own, they were to find out and they were to get to find out their time they were not good. Do you're

chief of accusation had to be at old? We're not, we had this, we had all the right, you know,

but you didn't have the right to get in the way, it's a that's it's very much,

but the reality, it's that are that that obliges the state to be able to

be able to be sure collectively that we not the condemnation that are made on the

base of the evidence of the reason that's not the people that you're saying, you say,

you're going to say, if we're saying, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm doing,

because the prosecutor, you know, the procurer will say, you're going to risk a time, you'll be to be a coupable to that,

you know, and I've seen the, the whole, there, the accusations changed, like,

if we're in process, I'm not all the case of the reason, I'm not all the paper, but I've got enough of proof for you're asking

in process to have a procession of arms, three years. You know, you understand. The negotiation of the pen,

and the entend, and the attorney, the Court Supreme that said, are essential

for the system of justice. Yeah, that's not that makes that make, it is engorged. He is engorged.

If we were to get to all the dossiers to the reality is that we're going to have, you know,

the idea is that an accuser they plead culpable. It's evite a process, it evite some evite

the people that are in the court. It's a processus of rehabilitation that's a morse to recognize his culpability.

It's a time of the therapy, to do the job to travel community, so the society benefice

to that. So, it's certain that I know, I'm know, I'm talking, people

that people that's the penne, the reality, the incarceration, she has, you know, has a

limit on level of what is able to produce in terms of results. And today we're a society where is

we're able to get able to obtain the same result at times, in guarding the people in their employment, in having the

conditions that's quite quite but, but in making a sort of the crime that they have done, it is puny.

You know, I should be able to have some people who get to get a murder who's there's a prison at the

house. There are there's for that we're there's not that we're formed, who are the

ultimately can refuse or not the entente they're fact. But I think that our system of justice, on Canada, we can be in fair. There are two bell things that are you able to

only return to the system for trying to get into the system to try to understand. After all right, I just want to say, I have two questions. First question, is, is you know, I know that it's been, I know the person who they've done, is, is that you have seen, do pleading

culpable for a crime that they have not committed because it was just more complicated than to it's on all right to pay the aboca, and the pen was so, okay,

I'll have a case, so I'm going to have a case, but if I'm in a process to prove that I'm not done to make it, it's

going to be a penalty, that's a case, I'm a case, a voice of fact, that's,

I'm, I'm accused of, tentative of murder, that I'm not committed, you know, do all,

do you, I'm going to go to prove, I can't, so I'm I've been in 15 or I'm a coppable

to a voice to find my pain in a community, but I never, I've ever I've seen a story very rapidly

Sydrich. I've condemned a view who had called to he said, and who would be caught in

murder of first, so 25 on automatic, etc. And when he has explained how the

all is produced, but he was he was young, he had 21 when it was he had been in an arrenage

the person that had committed the murder, it's this person that who had paid an advocate. He was not

on the juridic, it's not he's not he's not he had done an advocate, and after that, when I

look the that's did it, he has done in a sense that I have put in some of

he had been to be he had been not exactly 25 because he will benefit in a

liberation before that And I was And I'm obliged to My friend You will have Turned the page To take time

And attend to be Because you're You're able to You're not You're accepted To recognize your And yet You know, all the

Epit They're all right With a revision Judiciary, like a sort of It's the project Innocence that we can

see the media So it's a reality that exist It's the reality that exists Malouson If the project

exists still the kind of I'd like I'd receive I'm at I'm going to

I'm going to I'm going to probably to have a question. Absolutely. The other question

that came in these discussions that, you had talked, I mean, I didn't know if it's in

or on camera when you said but you said that you said a first offence. Yeah, you did a

first offender. Cote recidive, what's you know, what you see, the perception

to you, sometimes you do the first they play to be culpabe, they're they're a Pen, whatever, what is,

what's the pain, more, too dependent of the crime, at what you see the, at a point you see that our

system is functionalal, we're in, we're in a system very punitive to Quebec, Canada,

at what you see a question, I'm going to see a system. I'll explain, a thing, I'm in context, there are

like three types of criminality in the drug criminal, so we know, the crime organized,

that all the people, all people, all the crime, the crime, the crime financial, the crime and we have

the first offenders. The first offender is Mr. and Madam all the world. It's the people that you cotoyer at all the day but who are in a certain moment in their life

so we're in a situation because there's an event and commit an infraction criminal. In my practice, to me, 95% of the first of offenders,

I don't they re-weigh not. 95%. So, you know, I'm someone, I do always have a new clientel

because the reality is that the most of my clients, a time that I have treated my dossier, the processus, it functions.

And, you know, I'm quite because the part of my clients I arrive at the guard out of prison. You know, there's certain there are some of the people who are going to have some

but in the case that I've had to be a practice, the most of the people, you know, we can't have to find out of the prison.

For Mr. Madame, all the world, in a first offender, the power of the prison is a pretty to do you have

in the law in terms of first offender you have to understand, you know, if your crime,

it's a murder. No, no. You know, it's not of that. More of, I get too, I've done a tab sallele to someone, it's a mal-pirate, it. Yeah, it's a lot of... Many of violence,

many of violence congeal. Deballoon. Many of violence intrafamilial. Yes, of the criminality around the drug, etc. Problem of money. I've been vendy a little bit of dope

for arunds to arunds the end of me. But the reality, is that the processus function. The part of the people won't recidivier. The grand majority. And that, that, it's without having

need necessarily of incarceration. So I think it's certain that there are there's a crime that makes of the case.

Recently, I've made a case where was that's a person who was a fraud style grandpair or is that

we've got to get to get to people who I'm sorry. I know. I know. I'm not.

It's horrible. You know, after that if it's your grandmair, your person, how you would be

that someone to benefit to have been to do the other side of the person

that's like I'm been manipulated. I'm made because my chum my

convinced to make, I'm not, I'm not quite, I'm trying to be on the

I'm trying to the time. On the $300,000 I've only had only $5,000. But, you

see, on a quote, I'm trying to with, I'm trying to say,

but it's the things that's there's there people, that

humanize that person who's the person who is Is we have not, is we not, is we going to have not, in

in trying a other way to it's simply that in lieu of in the prison, when there's all this context that that

explain the the crime? And this person that merit a defense, as long as the mother of 44 who is all

feinted with his chum of the he would be probably not had been done his auto this foe

that, and he had had entered in the auto of someone of other and there has rendered

an accident with faculte if someone if it's a fact it's a right of your foot

and it's not a criminal she's not a woman, she's a pen someone who has had been able to she's

she'd like, she'd she'd be, she's the same defense. Cedricin, it's for that I'm a juror

so that the words are important it's that I'm never of an criminal I'm not about a person accused of a

crime. You know, why? You know, because it's often, we're often we're

often we associate the crime and the person like I would say the reality is that

the the most of the people who who are going to be able to get to get to be in a situation I'm

represented a family recently and we're talking about this dossier it's a child who pass

on a terrain and a woman will come after a bouroware of hot, he will devers

the bouleware of the cold on that that is in trying to pass. It's a

young white, okay, it's a longueue and I have accompanied

the family at a certain moment in a process criminal. And you

see what Ced Cedric I mean, I've asked this question that. Philip,

my cher Philip, of seven that I like that's, I'm in my guy's

that's, I'm, like, I'm, I'm, I'm in, you know, I'm feeling

in my body, if my have been if my person, would have ,

and it's, and it's the voice, that, that's that, who had

vied a bottle, a bolloo a chute, on my carso, I'm, I'm

I'm going to ask you I don't know I'd say I'd have to have a I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm not

I'm not going to I'm sorry if someone if someone if someone does that I'm saying I'm going to

the thing to I'm not a man I'm not a I can't you're doing you're doing you're doing you're a

call the police it's a way to it's a it's easy to talk to to associate the

crime and the and it's there are there are there people there's Their mission, they are they are they're

18, and they're going to they're going to continue. But that's, that's a 5% the majority of people,

it's the people, what's what we say, shit happens. We know last time, and it's really because I

had with the invite that I had, who's not a vocal, there, you know, there's a guy,

that, who, came to be accused of feminisid that had six breies of conditions.

Libered six four after the conditions, you know, but it's, I understand, and the minister has been questioned to everyone on par, the day of the day,

and all right, you know, I understand that nothing else, I understand, I understand the family, all that, you know, really, it's minimal, it's a case, but, like you you say, you're, totally impacted, you're a

limit to what the system can do, because, yeah, we could, this person that could be put more in charge, their dossier would be be more tight, but we're talking to million and of million of dollars,

Is it, is that, when something like that happens, the people in the road crash the government and saying, and I'm not going to say, and I'm not going to say, that's not going to escape. We've got escaped. We've got to escape, but how we'd have not been not elchaping?

We'd have a system much more functionalal, and how have a system much more functional, in ingerant, in paying more people, in having more of suave, more tight, plus so,

and that, it's a million, of the millions. So, like, but if you say you want to invests

the system in the system carceral, the world are not content, and the other other

when there when when there people are not sure, but it's not, and I excuse

to say, it's not there can have been there's there's there's not

who are not not made, it's that's it's we're not that's

we're not but the system to make there's, you know, there's there's

there's like, hey, we're it's eschaping, it's platter, we're going to

it's not quite, it's not a lot of society that we're doing to do you know, it's that's not, but the

rehabilitation, it's for all the reality. There's a there's a reality, Cedric,

I think, there are there are there people, there's a lot of people. I'm sure there, the direction that

they've been or what they have taken in their infancy to make sure that there's there's a

way that, there are there, there are there, there are there, the system gers these people,

but the reality is that the majority of the people who run in the system of justice or that's as far as

whether they can be rehabilitated and we're on at 80 episodes that prove. If we're, if we're

had decided that we didn't, we'd not of the pen or is we're just we're

we're trying the view of someone and we let's the government a bit,

we've been we've been we're multiple the 25 by the number of people

that we had to do you, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not, you know, the principles of determination of the pen, but the vengeance it's not, we'll go, we're going to enter in your speciality, you know, but I'm just, you know, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, on-camera, When we're going to be When we're talking about, after,

I mean, I think what I mean, I'm going to see, on camera and camera, being an

an avocat criminalist, I'm going to get to be there. If we're an group criminal, you're talking,

I'm saying, I want that you're that I'm not, I'm not to group, I'm not

not the group, I'm not not the person, we're, we're, we'd like you'd

like you want to be the abok to us if you're when there's if you're automatic, is

you open to that or you prefer to stay in this cut to, than to be, let's a group, you know, that's, we're talking about, you said, there were three types of criminalities, we're, like, we're talking to, you know, is it something that you'd do you'd say, I don't know, I'd be

attached to something like that, you know, that's a distinction that I've done, I've already represented people who were members, who had part of the crime organized, but I don't try to ever the advocate of group criminalization. That's a choice personal.

Perfect. Because that's not part of my values. Because also I'm becoming entrepreneur for to have the liberty

to choose, the case that I want to be able to and never I would be imposed to say, absolutely I do to defend

this person that, that's the person that for that can't financially, we're saying,

it's going to it's something interesting. But in my money, is, is is you think, or it's

no, but is it some of the time? You know, and then, you know, you're a lot of liberty in the sense that's a lot of you're not in a

carangue, he's got to him in the way, so, it's, you know, you know, at a minute,

at what you, at a point, you know, when you're when you're in , you know, when you're in a lot of the

, you know, obviously, I'm never to have ever to have this crinth by about the client,

um, I'm talking about with Katri, Tantto, one of my colleague at the clinic, but the advantage also to have, like, some of the years

of experience, is to have this liberty to say, I choose. Today, a client I'm called, I'm not obliged to to be able to pay my fin of me,

for pay my chard, for don't know to give the money to my children, I'm not obliged to be able to be a client. It's not

in a lot of, you, I think, I do some of the dossier, I've got some of the dossier, where there's any of the issue of refilage of

social, I've done a dossier, I've gotten, a dossier, recently at the Court of Appel. It's a decisionationment or is a decision. I've been to

a court superior. I'm going to go to court of before it. It's a fact that I gained two price because there

was a question juridic important that me interested. But it's this liberty to choose that is extremely

cherries. It's one of the reason for that many people have to make a question, I think you would have

apply to give a judge and etc. I don't not ad vitam internam but I know my

my liberty to choose is very restrain of a first that you because, you know, a judge choose not the dossier that's a

who will have over to be in the argument that's a plea when we say, when we're to say you know, I don't know,

to go to go at St. Seh-A-Send? Well, you know, to have a six seven to be in six weeks,

so it's this fear. I'm a life, she's an issue, and it's a reason for that this

mode of life he is not for me. I'm not the judge not the people who do you know,

but, you know, the type of the type of the type of the type of of having. You know, I understand the term

judge, you know, but if you're a place where you're the power to change these things,

in creating these jurisprudence, you know, for the cause that you're there's a layer to be there but the law.

But the liberty, yes, the power, no. In the sense that you can not create a

jury, at the least you gain your cause, yes. In fact, the

just I'd say, I'm, Cedry, that, it's the good advocates who

can't create a good judgment because a judge can't be not of him to be able to be able to the point of

the way, he does he does use it a part of the proof that had been made, so if he has an

excellent dossier, but the is a work that's not sulever the good point,

because he has not made the good proof, because he has not made the good there's

there's a car, you know, it's the good the good the good arguments that make

in sort that the both judges also will give them, and they say, I can to tell you to cause

that's made where is that, when I'm when I'm the work that's made that you can see,

oh, it's an excellent judge. The judge is good, but it's because my friend, we were all an

team to work, to you get to that, for that he could make you

make, it's not that the judge is good, it's that the judge has been being

being impartial and sifiant on siftian on You know, when I say there are these judges, you're a lot of judges who are some good jurists, who have a good judgment, who they want also change the things,

but they are tributer. You know, they are at the remark of the work that the that the law can do. It's for that personallyly, and, like I said, I have not a port that is firmly, but, you know, I'm playing as a book. And it's that, it's all the plan, at least for the 10 next next year.

COVID, yeah. Nothing to do you, you're in a mess. George Floyd What we've talked about I'm talking about I'm in

I'm sorry I'm going to I'm in a space I say we're going to and we're never, that's clear

that we're going to be here to come in the impact that it has the impact we know, personalel.

Personal, okay. This event personally it has really changed my view. Before I said that

it's changed my career, but it's true that has changed my life in what

that's my life, in what I found a a clinic Juridid of St. Michel,

so it's a B&L at the interior of I work. So, for to explain to the people, I have two practices.

I have a practice private that we've been in a crime in a crime but I'm also a practice and then it's

in this practice that that I'm going to the switch has been made in the course of my practice in O'BNL

at the clinic journalic of St. Michel. And one of the acts on the case on the axe on

the axis of the axis of the axis of where it has been, I have a client

who had been a case Cedric really degeless de-de-goless that the police have been. You know, it's a client that we invented all the motives for power to stop.

He had been batted by the police. We're accused of, we're accused of having stooped, to have pitted the ballon, etc. When he'd had to go at the hospital, he was at zero.

You know, there had absolutely rinded, the blessure that you can't even not you can't even imagine. And, you know,

I'd know, I'd know, I'm not too, you know, all the persons, all the persons, not, especially, they're all the story

of profilage who will to recount that they've been I know. I know I know I know

any of my generation who's not that's not a lot of different. So, is it that's the

issue at the end of the issue to the public? I know what I'm not that I'm

doing the clinic, because it's the COVID, I created a committee that's

called the committee to the community at the life to the profitage

Rassal and then I'm with my students the 25 May

2020 2020 and we had a formation with one of my colleagues who had already already had already

and I'm my students who were there to ask them to ask you to get to learn to get to the subject,

the clinic, we find an opportunity here to talk about this issue that. The 20 June,

2020, we've organized a marathon on the proflagerasa and the idea is what, it's a live

Instagram for during 12 hours where the people come, defile

after the other and they they're recount their stories. And it's like we've done that we've done that we've done that's not

important because what we do it's not not in the United you know, you bring these stories that's the United, but you're not our reality.

But we have done, in the years, a voice to a packet of person who, in fact, rested silence

but who, by the CGSM are in measure today to leave the hand, and to say, yes,

I've been victim, but they can receive an accompaniment a company I want to just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm going to give up because I want to give an explanation to people who are going to be able to relate to what I'm saying.

Because I think, it's a colleague humorist, who says something on the same and who demand, by applaudement, the family, the family, it's already not sentient in security, it's already senty in the room of that. All the women applauded. Absolutely. And, all the people believe, they believe. And there, inverse we're

to say, I'm going to say, it's a lot of people, the community who has already had

had already an event like that, like that, everyone will applauded. Is it everyone will

be able to see? It's a point. You can't see, it's the layer that,

why? It's not, you know, and I, and I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm going to

move this word, that's not we're trying, the famous, necessity. And, me,

it's a debate that I often with people. I don't know if you know Eric Preach, yeah,

Ruech, Boneymereach, a man, Coloss, he just with, he had been in the red,

so that, bra tattooed, and so that he's, he's, he's a phone, that's a

thing, that's a thing, and the other thing, he's not, he's not, he's out of,

he's not, he's always a flashlight, it's always a flashlight, it's sort of, it's, it's like,

what, Who has a flash light? We're not. He says, no, when I'm afraid, and he's put me a flashlight in the fair, I do you do. At what I'm going... I'm not sure, I'm not sure. No, but, you know, someone who's access to the media...

Yeah, I'm wondering. But I'm saying, hey, no, but, I'm a little air, and I assume what I have to have, we've never pointed. For me, it's not a... It's not a reflex, and I'm just made. And I'm not... I'm not an angel to volant,

more, but we're never arrived in my chark at me point in a number in front.

So, for that a noor can't a flashlight on him to do you, to do it,

at what point it's all it has been and it's very, it's interesting what you say because it

has a bit explained my approach that I have used in the year,

it's when I have to something, the first thing I'm said, it's

that it It had to understand this phenomenon there. And then it's quite quite because we've

started to work on the time. I invited, I've invited people to get to be doing the

time. And then I'm saying, I was with the students of the I've had

my experience as a criminalist to the issue of profilage. And at a certain

moment I'm a professor of university, Madame Sylvest of the Ottawa who she

she'd be, she'd would be to a project that I would have

cogita at the interior, you know, of the clinic, it's like we would pitche some of the project, and one of the projects we have pitched, is to say, we'll have a course on the proflage racial, because we've got found out that there were not a lot of judgment, there were not a lot of doctrine in French,

you know, he lacks the knowledge on this issue there, in the system juridic. And there, while we discusses of that, Mariav, she, I said, oh, but, you know,

I, see, I, I'm person to teach, this course there, and then, she would do you, would you learn to the enseigny? And then I had my colleague Rita who had been there

in the record I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, why not? But, you know, my head, I'm, I know, I know Focall, but at least I'm

that's real that I'm in the sense that I had never even even again even got, I'm not, and then I'm like, I'm like,

I'm like, I'm like, in what I'm embarked? The question, I said, after that, and you know, after that,

and so, we're talking to January, 22, 21, to the month of May 2221, every year, every year, four, three hours per day,

I've read, I've read, I've read, I've read, I've used, I've used, I've used to understand, okay?

And it's that that's the first time, in June, 2021, it's a course intensive of 10 years,

four hours per year, so it's 40 hours of teaching, intensive that I've done. And from

there, I've been I've been to 13 repris in all the university in the university in the

public. I'm not the number of formations that I'm doing that on the time.

I refused at least six formations that we had made on the subject. And I

have maybe 10 other than I did you do you. So it's it's been something

that's something that has been a point complete of the work that the clinic did.

I'm published these articles that I'm my mitrice you

have a METries in of the METries on the drug criminal at Toronto, it's a matter of trial. It's really changed all the truth of working to practice. Because the journey where is

I started to teach, I had never had a dossier. I had never pledged these to see dossier at the court. Depute, I've pleaded at least 12 dossier at the court, in 11 that I gained. So you you understand, it's a It has changed

a lot of things in my life. Two things. One, is that you think? Not to

do you think, that you gogues that because of what we're in the

question, you know, is you think you are more freleous, they want to

they're so that you, you feel really that the work and the education

that's all the whole, not you, it's not because you're not because you

the judges are more freeloer of what's going to be to be in the impression that it's that's a part something that you do you feel in the sense that you

feel that you think at each judgment that you do you feel that's a cause of it's a good but it's a

point you have a whole a lot of a lot it's not a cause that it's not cause that we

have done you I'm back I was I'm going to I'm I can You can a case that will

help you to understand. This client that made to talk about to say, he's called Matt Kwajoeboa.

28th January 21, he's a advocate. So, it's an advocate. He's a

Mercedes, he's with his wife, he's been intercepted by the policeier. We're during the

COVID, there's a cover-fe, it's the same day that Madiiiii Mara was to be

to have to have to have a importance in a certain moment, okay, police arrive,

is what I can't to have you have you have to have gone to you know, he's like,

he's like, he's like, he said, he said, I'm not going to , he does he has a number of assurances,

so he's trying to the police is going to the police is over, he says, I think that's a

full permit. He's a full. But the police have no, the police have not a machine for

verify if it has even they don't even the machine for power to give a a backup. The backup

arrive, two other policeers arrive. What do you think of a permit? There are false? Yeah, I think there are false also. So, there are the four policiers, all is in accord that's a false permit.

Go ahead and the car that's a full permit. Check in a first base of data. It's a real permit. Second base of the day, it's a real permit. Check, in a three-em-bass-de-due that's a front of a permit,

but he's still. There's a backup that will come here, a third-o-to-patroy. Three-ean auto of patrol. cellular possible on the volon even if he

talked on the telephone let's on let's he's then he's the two other arrive at the same

conclusion. But now, remember you he was arrested for a cell on the so he's

in a car, and he he's in he sees he sees he doesn't he doesn't

he can't he comes, he's he's he's got, he's like what

the first the first the policeier, he's the first Well, finally, we're We're seeing that it's an

advocate. Because he escapes his permit, his portfolio, he's a card of barrow. And there's a discussion that's made,

there's a thing that in the clout, huh? I can't say, I know, I know, because it's

the matter of, but the Fisces just went to to be able, and the dinner, and then we're there, oh,

we're in the man, we're doing, he's a bit more vocal than me, he's a bit more than,

we're not content. And we, we can't, we can't, we can't, finally, for me to make the audio to

that he don't know a contravention for a cell a revoling. Now. They have got you know,

it's not, no, but you're in the sense that, you know, I'm a man to get to

my jaw, I'm sorry, and I'm sure, and I'm to give an idea, I'm going to

get an case, what's going to say, I'm doing, I'm going to I'm still, I'm still in

the city of Montreal for for $1, $1,000 for profilage Rassel, okay, I'm

We're still in the processus, the process of 2017, so I'll let's say that to when we say that the system juridic I've made... I've made a plaintiff in desontology policial and I've also

contested the contravention. The contravention, I've decided to fixer, I've made a process for that, okay? So, me, I'm, the day one, I,

have three years of process that are fixed for the ticket. Three days for a ticket. I've cited all the policeier for a minute.

Wow. Three days. The judge that will run the decision, here's what he said in the first of the court.

The first year of the trial, he said, he said, I'm not the doctor to the jury

police and the I'm not the person, the court of the person, and it's not true, so there,

you're going to be a and he's out of the ban. And the judge, can be content,

but the notes, the not that's the person who can't give us, if someone who comes

the judge. The judge comes with the posture of the judge, I'm not want to

you're not my job, to you're doing, it's not true for an ticket. For the ticket for the ticket

of the same year. The three years were not sufficient. We have made five years of the process.

And at the end of the five years, the judge had taken six months to do you and then

the end of six months, he has concluded that all the policeiers are going to be able to

he had concluded that's the profilage racial, he has ramaced the police the

the beginning to the end to the But, but I'm for having this judgment that,

it's a money, it's not, Matthew Boyer couldn't, even if it's an lawyer,

they could not be able to for the work, and I, I've made that because I know that

had led the pursuit civil. I, you know, the number of pages, because we have made the

process in a first time, after that, maybe four, five months we've had had been

the suit of the notes of the notes scenographic, I'm I remember the day of my

pleadoiries, we were at working on the pletoirie and the point of the point of the right that I'm doing the

time. It's a whole point in a lot of sense for what but it's, but it's the value of the

judgment that it's a interpilled. So when I talk to the lute to profilage racial,

it's for that I'm because we do it, because we do you do I'm back to be back against the

I'm recently recently I went to in a school, I was I said to the judge

I've have been to have been She made give me I'm going to I'm going to

I'm going to be I'm going to because the I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to but the reality is that when I'm

going to understand and it will finish by compend it well we can't not make this this document it's probably because there are

there are some because there's that's important and the reason for I can they can't and explain it's all the

time that I've done for the five years it's trying to to go to go to I'm going to

be the combatant you're not to beckes because you're to get to give the feet but the cause is more grand

the cause is more great. And I have the advantage of an team extraordinary. I have the people who

think you're in this COSA who have embarked with me. You know, presently the committee at the Lust

at the Prophal Rastal, I'm there's alexia Mornow who's that's it's been

it's three or four four years that Alexe is there today, we see the fruit of the

work that's we're seeing, because we have some of the tribunal, we have some the commission of the person,

we're able to, and it's not the victory where we're doing it's people, it's people, it's a little a little pole,

it's that that's a little paw to a little one of a march of eight kilometers, but what's

what's, but they're people, they, they've had been being a recouped, and who are a recination. I'm a question.

I'm I have a client, I remember, when the judgment is gone, and that the judge he said, I think it's a due profligence. He me, he made in his bra, in pleur. And he was like, thank, Belton, thank you. And, you know, I'm saying,

we can't, you know, I'm saying, I was, you know, I was, I was there on board of letting his own, because I said, what's going to pay, and you, you know, you, can't find out of four people, but the 5th, it's been saying, no, and he said,

to, you know, he said, of a lawyer to pay, you know, he was supplied, to not let's have left you. I was like, I was trying, I was trying, go to get

a mandate of the juridic I'm going to see, you know, a change I've had, he had

admitted to imagine that you have to be able to pay by the juridic, that's it's just

because we got got on the criminal, it's a facility, it's a problem,

so the the village has paid finally, but it's like I'm over,

and it's it's not at-a- -l-a- you're all-a- there's a problem, and just because

When I know, you say, uh-huh, but for an avocat like that, who do you do with, who co-de-chaire, but who's not a rental, but when there's a

course of, I'm like, in deontology, where you're doing the all, that, I know the first, we,

we're going to our life, and I know that for that, but when it's gained and that the city pay, you know,

it's like, you've got an entrant, you have a percent, or, yeah, but the reality,

but the reality, it's that there's, there's, there's, clients can't go to

civil. So what's they're going to do you want to be a commission to do not because

you know, because he have chosen to do you to do that the example that I'm doing the

people who are I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... My colleague Mike Ward with the commission of the

person, so I'm like I'm... I'm sorry because it's these partners of the CGS but I'm know that

they're not content of to what I'm saying, but it's always How I compare, is that when you're a pursuit civil, we're going to say that you're in Benz, okay? Especially if you're a good advocate. I've been a good. I'm a bad.

That's why I'm trying to show you. Correct. You have the right. You have to be able to. When you're at the Commission, you're in the STM. And then the S&M is in grave. It's a good image. You go to the same place, but not at the same distance, not with the same resource.

With the same comfort. Not with the same conform. So, at the Commission, you're in the list, you're in the line of all the people who are. are in the of the time to have you're in front of you're not trying to

you're not doing you're not part you're at least you can't do you're maybe five years maybe runned there maybe the time when you're not pursuing to civil

so because you have no money maybe four years you're not enough that's not after you don't have not plus so the majority of clients and the client that pass by this process that.

So the reality, the montant don't you see the I'd ever ever never the colour of this argent there.

After that, for the little minority who can pay the term judiccerer, who can pay the stenograph,

who can pay all the work that it's a process of civil, yes, but the

montant, it's not these montant, it's not the amount where is as you

like, as you say, I'm, I'm, I'm, sincerely for me, with the

notoriety that I today, to do other It would be a lot of money. It would beaerate, a lot of people,

if you'd make a salary at hour, the time that's like, hey, the salary minimum, there's an interesting,

you know, maybe that's not at that. No, no, but you can't but the reality is that if it's

for the money, it's a lot that I'd have been long time that I've already to

have the I'm there's, and there's the reason for the reason for I'm to give

and that I continue to be to form a relive, it's because I'd not that my career

it's sure and certain I'm not the energy the force the courage you know, you know,

there's a time to like me, you know, like this foe of the beginning and the

moment, and that's like, oh, nice, you know, Fando has done an

opportunity I'm to go in the relationship of your relive a little? The relive

is there. The real. There are there. There are. There are. There are. I've been

I've been talking about I'm talking about I'm sorry I'm in a broad she's called Dardia Joseph She, she she, she,

she, she, she, she, she, she had quit the grand bureau of avocas for coming to the clinic, and she,

she, she, she, the only reason why she's not there is because, today, she, today, she, she,

today, all the conference that I've done, she's always there's always she, she, she, she, she, she,

she, she, she, she, to be over here, these ports, there, for that, there, other like

she's, I think to Alexa, when I'm talking about to rule the committee almost alone that's a little

to get to his title and she's hungry. Recently, we've had been a victory recently, she's,

she, I think it's a beau, it's a really, it's a role of my first victory

so this relive that, it's indispensable because the reality, is that it's a combat that I'm

that I'm that my children will have also. But, but to be one of the

first of having, to have a big pot in the gronage, you know, to have made,

an toe of manivele to you know, and part of time, it's the impression that you have made

something, I've been there's, it's on the base of their work, that I,

I've been, but it's very that the work that the clinic has made to which I've been

to do you, it's sure that's a challenge extremely important, I think, and we're

going to this opportunity, that doubt for continue. Now, I'm obliged to stop for you because you've done a hour

to do you have to quit. And this hour that arrives in some time. So, before we're just two

things. The one, you will let us the coordinates of the clinic, if the people,

who can be being... But the people can't be able to CGSM. CISM.C.A. Tappe

clinic jurid to say Michel. YouTube. We're all to be there. All right.

Before we quit, I just on vane on something that we had said the reason for that you

have been our first first time. I know, I know that you probably probably not too return to be able to

get to get in the case. We're talking about a young of 15-year- a little bit of a 13 year. And you me said,

the family when we when we reported, you me said, the family came to me mandatate

for them representer there. You mandate the family don't the infant has been killed

by a police, literally. There's not other It's what your work in there to say,

he's been engaged for them to representate at what level? In the first time, this dossier is extremely

mediatized. We're talking of the young Nouran Rezae. 21 September, 14, 58, he is

he had been on the ball of a policeier. So the first thing, there's there had

been a whole mediaatic. There's the attention mediatique, I think that it

normal because it shock the people. Necessaire, in a case like that's a case, like it's not, it's necessary, I don't know, but, you know, it's a certain thing, it's

a joke, the people, especially when we're a young who are being related, so, there's an attention meditative, and you can't that the parents in a first time

were lanced a bit but it's by tristence, by the pain to their father, and they they're saying, they respond to show like that,

and they're raffold of that, you know, there's not their chute at or not you, etc. So, you know,

the first part of my work, it's been to get really to get the aspect media.

You know, I've done did the docied, but I think in terms of my absence, it's sure

the dossier that I'm made to do but in a second time, it's to look at the deced

noran has passed. Is there a fault of the part of the policeier? Why is he's the

person who had been to try? Why we've been a two repries? Why there

a one a police that's a and not not the other. And if there's a question of foot, then it's sure that we're potentially of a pursuit civil. I don't know a new case. Villanueva,

if we can say, you know, the comparatives are there. Freddie Villanoiva, we're we're talking of an intervention of 60 seconds before the police the police deputies of course on gun and then to tear on the same. Here, I'll you'll say, it's even more rapid.

It's happened more more rapidly than that. So presently, you know, I'm at Virginia, Dufrein'Rein'Urne of Mir. We're, We have decided to do this dossier together that are in fact

we're going to represent the family, we're in trying to regard the ensemble of the circumstances. We're in

the family of our kids, but it's also about five other young who were present, they were

six, who have seen their friends, who have been those people, they're these young,

who are traumatized, and I, and I, have the mandate to represent the ensemble of all of

the family, and also the family of these young, and, it's been

a big poe on the Paul, an avocca? It's a... It's a big cause because the

issues are important, because what's what's going to be because what's there's a inquiry, we're there's an inquiry, we're on the case,

but we're in more of that an inquiry of SPVM, that we're doing what the SPVM fool there in

but they're going to be inquieter. There, there, well, there, there, you know, there,

in fact, this cause, I've never had ever been There are many people who have contacted that I know not, or so many people who have opened up to say,

oh, we're telling you, Tid, etc. The people are people are being the same thing that's the same thing is that's a thing that's a

case that's a moment of my career, at a moment when I'm ready. You know, I'm not an apprentice magician in trying to

to learn to have my first postage, I'm at least civil against the police in the second,

in 2021, it would be not not been not. Because I just that you said, yes, I accepted some of the car,

but okay, you've got to do you live. It's a time to to read. You've got to be an example. But, you know, I've read a point in my career

where I've made a lot of a lot of or is that I've had to have done in the pursuette in the police,

in the dossier in the case of Nouran, it's so and I say, I don't know that's a car of profilage

today, but is that our trot? But, yeah, in our trot, is the police sort of

gun trembling, sheveve blonde, the blue, is the same event in the event that's let me say

that's legitimate today to ask you to answer to be to the question. I'll ask you not a question. I don't know

the answer. I don't know to let's let's go to the question. If we're we're talking

the 20 last years of at a pretty, if you can give the chief

approximative, I don't I don't I don't I ask a question, person, non-armed

sued by by the policeies. in 20 years, I know how many it has been in a is a pretty how many

it's a and of the number that how many it's resised versus no. I'm in trying to colligier

this, it's a good question and I'm in trying to do that to do that to get

to know, with you, Cedric, this question that I've been in the question that

I'm being an advocate. You're sure excellent. Absolutely not. You're confirmed that

no. All the names that I've used until now are some of the names of people who have been to commercialized but I'm not

not even I've not quite done to be an exercise exhaustive but so assurated that's a

something on which we go to be on the on the so if there there's a colon

black racized there there's there already a profile that's I'm

absolutely you're in the reason is simple what is what is what is we

perceive what's person as as a criminality? What's what we're seeing as a person as a

person who's a person who a police a person who has a problem, he has a pair

for his but it's because the menace that's the that's the person who has been a

question, it's a colos and then after that after that after that after that I'm

an man of a form subimation extraordinarily but, yeah my client,

he was he was he's a dude I mean it's a guy who had

was traumatized the way it was being the way of the police, if he would have to be able to and he'd

be able to make it. It's not to be able to get to make sure the asphalt while he's in trying to

the arreter. So, yes, it's the questions that I would to respond, that I'd submit it as

as to come response and my hypotheses to be a tribunal eventually, and we'll see,

I know, I use, I use, you know, I use, you know, you'll And I'd say that's someone who is costo,

who had been a better term than Coloss. But, that's a color of poe, that's a lot, that's a way, that's not a character, that's a shape, it has not to define

your fashion to approach someone when you're not it. It can define, but it can't, in a sense that it can define

in the sense that we can understand more of prudence, to make more attention, But the treatment differential

is non. It's no. And Cedric, the case of of persons racialized, especially because it's really

more of the dossier of that I'm in my practice that's being treated in a manner differentceal

only because the color of their skin, it's not anodin, it's not anecdotic.

And I'm even not in measure to say that's not the norm. I'm not I'm trying to

say the I'm trying to say, I'm trying to say, I'm trying to do you But, you know, at

how point you have to be creative? You know, I mean, if you're a policeman and someone you'll

get on the I'm trying, I'm trying. Yeah. But at how point you're crintiff of a

young of 15 years, at that point you have a to start your arm?

Sort of and and try to get to I, I said, I said,

I'm not not been known because I'm not able to learn these things like,

but I'm 50% of the person that I know have that they're in their poche and a

minute you know, you know, if you have a year of a young of 15-year,

I understand you know, you're not a minute you have a declique if at a point

that, then, rest elwany, demand a backup, you know, I mean,

what I can do say, what I'm I think, Virginia, has an lot of experience also in these

genre, she has done the dossier of Mamaddy Kamara, the dossier of the central police, et cetera,

we're two advocates who are at point in our career where is we're ready and so assurred that you

have an justice for no run. This case that will be a case that will be a case in

two chaise or a case in the case if there are responsible who are

not to responder not Thank you very much. It's interesting. Hey, and I've got to have been asked, so I'll let's keep it.

I think if you're not done a portion of hour, I don't know how many times would have dured this episode but, but I'll just not your work. Thank you.

Because the people are not content of this podcast that, I think, essential and necessary. And I'm sorry to be here

for all this interview, all the questions to have responded to your open to your open up

to have, I've not seen the politici I'm not I'm not I'm not you know, but I'm

I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm just, I'm just, you know, I'm not

there's a , I'm trying to say to all the people in political, and try to be the language in that's not true,

the language of that's not that we're a business generally, but no. Ah, you'll assume the

line of the party. Well, it's so I'm going to change the things, but no, finally I'm going to see the

line of the party but I'm sorry, it's a gar. A grand thank you maybe we're a great pleasure.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you.