Au Parloir - Épisode #94 - Ziad

Episode Date: June 15, 2025

Dans cet épisode, je reçois Ziad, ancien soldat de g@ng de rue, il se retrouve à la justice suite à un «drive-by» par l'entremise d'un délateur, seul accusé puisqu'il était au volant, malheureusement deux personnes perdent la vie. Après 27 ans de prison et de gestes impardonnables, il se retrouve à la vrai vie et tente de se re-construire... Hébergé par Acast. Visitez acast.com/privacy pour plus d'informations.

What better than a nice marbled entrecote that grises on a barbecue? A nice marbled entrecote that grises on your barbecue. Choose according to your directives and deliver at your door by an Instacart buyer. This summer, let Instacart take care of everything and order without even leaving the little kid's toy. Download the mobile app and take advantage of delivery fees at $ 0 on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions and conditions apply. Instacart, your grocery store on the go. Hello everyone, welcome to a new episode of the podcast.

If you want to support the podcast and want early episodes, patreon.com slash au parloir, which is my website, where you have access to episodes six weeks in advance. the and you have the option of Patreon producer, or you have your name in the end credits. Otherwise, there's cedrichibergeron.com. There you have access to the merch, so the T-shirts, the hoodies at the parlor, all my social networks, YouTube, all the links are there. And also for my show, Sympathique,

or the other shows of the world. So in the calendar, you have access to all dates where I present my show. Today, I received Ziad. Ziad just had a re-edition of this book. Me, Ziad, soldier of the street gangs. The first edition came out during he was in time, and the publishing house failed. The press bought back the rights, and reprinted them. So there's a reprint of all of this.

He wanted to become a gangster, and he did everything to become a gangster. He was becoming one. He had been in prison for all of this, and he was framed by a delinquent with a pack of wood behind the walls regarding a drive-by. So he was the driver during the drive-by, and two people lost their lives during that event. He was the only accused.

First degree trial, two deaths, first degree. No life sentence, no possibility of conditional release before 25 years. He did 27 years. You'll understand why in the podcast. He didn't rest easy throughout his sentence. And today, at 51 years old, he's been released for three years, and he's rebuilding a life. And that's the reason for this podcast,

to welcome these people who rebuilt a life after these unforgivable actions, among other things. Once again, I repeat, I don't necessarily endorse the gestures, the ideologies, the terms used by my guests, but I'm a person who takes the freedom of expression. I like frank people who speak with their hearts. Welcome to the parlor. Today's episode is, among other things,

a presentation of the new energy drinks Spark. Do you want to stay focused, see the sound, hear the colors? But stay alert, Spark is the solution. In fact, it's a revolution in the field of brews with Zoom XR technology, which is a slow. In fact, it's a revolution in the field of brews with the Zoom XR technology, which is a slow release caffeine. You know what that does? It means that when you finish your can,

you won't have the heart to debate and you'll be focused all day long because caffeine will be in your system all day long. They didn't add sugar, they didn't add coloring. What did they add? Well, love, minerals and vitamins.

It's a Quebec product made at home, by people people of our country, for the people of our country. Available in all health shops throughout Quebec. At shopsante.ca or at sparkenergydrink.com Hello Ziad. Hello. Thanks for being here. A free man? Yes, well, free. Well, you're still free. We're going to say I'm more free than I've ever been. Exactly, exactly. We're receiving you. There's a book next to you, basically.

It's a reissue that's being made of that book. This book, if I'm not mistaken, it was released, you were in prison. Yes. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue.

It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reissue. It's a reiss basically, it's a reissue that's being made of that book. That book, if I'm not mistaken, it was released, you were in prison.

Yes, the first edition was released in 2009, and what happened was that the publishing house that initially published it, was in fact bankrupt for reasons that we don't care about. And that's it, Vincent Larouche, the co-author, the one who wrote the book with me, he received requests for the book and he had no way of printing it, so it's the editions of La Presse that bought the rights and they are doing a re-edition of the book. And listen, it's all fresh, I received it by Purolater. Rocks shipped. Very cool, very cool. I do what I do with all my guests.

I'm part of the base. I want to know who you are. I want to know your story. But your story starts from the beginning. Your youth. You come from which area? What kind of family do you grow up in? How does it go?

I come from the Plateau Mont-Royal. In fact, a zone of the Plateau that is close to the city center. I don't know if you know a little. Saint-Laurent, Prince-Arthur. Yes, very well. Exactly. It's Plateau, but that is close to the city center, I don't know if you know a little bit, Saint-Laurent-Prince-Arthur. Yes, very well. Exactly. So it's plateau, but it's close to the city center. So I grew up in that area. My father was at Parc Mont-Royal. That was a bit the area where I grew up. I had a family of immigrants. I arrived here at the age of two. Okay. Where are you from?

From Morocco. From Morocco. From Morocco, I have a brother, we are just two. My parents are always together. My mother died a month ago. My sympathies. We'll have time to talk about the relationship with my family. Absolutely.

Your brother, younger or older? Older. Older, three years. Did you follow his footsteps or did you create your own footsteps? I'll tell you, younger, we had a lot of the same interests. We were very involved in sports. We played soccer, we played hockey, we played basketball. He was younger and his studies were always good.

Okay. I was more dedicated to my time in sports. That was what was essential well in school. I was devoting more of my time to sports. That was essential in my life. I was always arranging myself to do the necessary stricks to succeed in school. But the comments from the teachers were generally, they couldn't do more, all the necessary potential. The effort wasn't there. The potential was there, but not the effort. Exactly. So I was dedicating that to sports.

That was my... You were a relatively normal, relaxed, calm beginner. Relatively normal. Maybe a little bit turbulent on the edges, but nothing... I come from a family. My father was very strict. It's really the Moroccan dead. He brought that back here. Yeah, yeah. He was a very authoritarian father. He had a mother, not submissive, but I would say she was following him.

It was my father who came to the house. Okay. So for him, what was essential was the studies. He had a big picture of what he wanted to do with his guys. It was the studies, superiors and everything. Medical lawyer. Exactly. That's what I often hear from immigrant families.

Studies are important. And what I understand today, my father comes from nowhere. He comes from a small town. He's a man who built himself. It's admirable. I admire him for what he did. Where he came from. And that's it. He wants the best for his children, that's why he immigrated here.

But living in such a strict environment, does it make you want to rebel? Well, that's what ended up happening to me, my brother, no, but it's probably due to my personality, because with time, I felt like injustice. Everything that was sport, I didn't do anything wrong. But everything that was outside the education framework of the school, it was a distraction for him. Sometimes the coaches called him at home, or whatever, he hung up on them. It was like...

Focus on school. Focus on school. When you have the grades I want, you'll play soccer. He was ashamed of me for that. I was be at school. When you have the grades I want you to have, you'll play soccer. I was ashamed of that. I was good at sports. Every time I went to my games, I played in teams, and my other parents were there. I never had that kind of support. I think it's important for young people to feel that their parents support them and encourage them.

For their self-esteem, it's huge. I was completely opposed to all of that, in relation to the things that interested me. So, over time, when I got closer to adolescence, that's what contributed greatly to my rebellion, if you will. How and when does it start shifting? It starts... well, listen, it starts to take over my life because you live this injustice

since you were young. I went to my friends' houses, I wasn't allowed to go to bed at my friends' houses. Friends' houses were also distractions. So I saw what was happening elsewhere at my friends' houses, and what was happening at our houses was completely different. So I lived that as an injustice, if you want to know why I... Because the neighborhood you live in, it's not... You know, we're not in Schlage, we're not in Montréal Nord, we're not in RDP. No, no, it was very... There was a lot of Portuguese at the time. You know, I was playing in a Portuguese soccer team. I'll tell you, it wasn't a bad neighborhood, you know.

It wasn't a recognized neighborhood as being really rock'n'roll, you know. No, not really. But listen, when we arrived in were teenagers, we were thieves. We stole cars, we broke vans, we did the 400-hit thefts, we went into houses. For you, it was your way of rebelling against... I was part of the gang, that's what the others did. I started smoking pot, I I started making fuses,

because I wasn't good at home, I was good with my friends. So that's what the fuses brought me to the youth center. That's around the age of 15. I was in a fugue, the police were looking for me, to protect my youth, if you want to say. Yeah, all of them were just protection. Yeah, that's it. So I got into the system at that time. So I found myself in youth centers, in and out.

I was pushing myself. I had some evasions of... They didn't call them youth centers. They called them center for re-adaptation in neighborhoods. Okay. But how does it work for a kid who moves out of their house because he feels suffocated and you make him crawl in a cage, you know, it's even more suffocating. But I didn't live like a cage at first. OK.

At first, honestly, I never did that. Because... You're still more free than at home, almost, more activity. Because what we did, that's it, activities, we did sports, you know, two sports a day, you know, there was a structure anyway, there was a framework to respect, we did sports, two sports per day, there was a structure, a framework to respect. But until a certain point, I liked it, but not too long after a bout, I got angry because I wanted to go out with my champs, to get the 400 shots, but the environment we were in was structured, there were activities, teller, teller, teller, but it was sport, it was in my interest palette.

So that's it. I was going to get my appreciation at the beginning. Well, the proof that what they say, that you know, make it move. As a parent, I find that there is not enough physical education in schools. Make the kids move. In the proof, it's like, man, I like to be in the youth center because I move. It's so sad.

It's such an environment, the sport, where all the values ​​that you can go and look for in the sport, when you go to a gang, it's the same values ​​that you go and look for in another place, which brings a package of other parties. You go in a direction where there are lots of pitfalls. The belonging, the chums, a gang. You've got that in a hockey team. The self-esteem, it's in a healthy environment. I have a little boy I just had, he's a year and a half old.

I can't wait for him to get older. I hope I'll pass on my passion for sports. You'll get back in shape with him. You'll start kicking the ball again. I'll try to transmit my passion for sports. You're going to get back in shape with him. You're going to start kicking the ball again. I'm going to try to find the time. I've been training twice since I left. I'm a guy who's always trained. I left at 230 pounds.

I lost at 30 pounds. Yeah, that's it. I'm going to tell you, you didn't lose. Hey, Jim, that's what I like about you. It's because I just don't have the time, you know, but I'm trying to come back. You'll tell me, I'm a metro driver, but what's not a bad thing is that you get out of prison and you're missing out on time because you're too busy. It's not a bad thing. Because when you get out of prison, if you have too much free time,

you may have too much time to think about shit or get bored. Not for me, honestly. I don't want to go back to prison. And I see it as... You talk to a guy who thought he was going to die. There was a time when I literally said that was going to be my life and that I would never get out. So today, all of this is bonus. Even when it's hard, because it's not easy.

But I always go back to war. You know, five years ago, you would have told me I would be out with all these problems. I would have said, where do I sign? Because I was at the bottom of a hole and I had no hope. So for me... We'll all come back to that, that's for sure. But I wonder, you know, you talk about an authoritarian father and all that. But you run away.

So when you get caught, I imagine you don't want to go back home to face your father. Was he a physically violent man? He was. He was. He was, but he wasn't abusive. You can't imagine yourself as a beaten child. No, I don't see myself as a beaten child. It's just that there were events where they were maybe a little too good.

It was another time, another culture. I don't want it today because I know he was ill-fated, but it came from a good place. He didn't hurt me. He was doing it for the pleasure. It's his way of knowing that in Morocco it was like that. So today I understand him, you know, that it didn't come from... I would never do that to my child, and today it's just not right. You wouldn't have a child. But for him, that's what he knew.

It's forgiven because it's understandable where it comes from. It's excusable because it hasn't been, as you say, in the abuse. Yeah, that's it. It was to frame me, and it's his way of knowing. Communication, it didn't exist. Sometimes it's crazy how parents of this generation can't realize how a big hug, a big hug to your guy will be much more effective than a slap in the face. You just have to listen to him, so he feels at ease

to talk to you about anything without having repercussions or that you're going to have a lot more efficient. Just listen to him so he feels comfortable talking to you about anything without having repercussions or you know, you're going to have a conversation with him. You communicate with your child, and that starts very early so that he feels comfortable. When he talks to his parents, it's in a safe environment, you know, and he can talk to us. I imagine that the relationship with him has deteriorated, you know, the fact that you find yourself in a shelter and you push yourself and push yourself back. He doesn't know how to express himself, how he lives. It becomes a relationship of confrontation between you two all the time.

All the time, all the time. And I wasn't able to confront him, so I pushed myself. I never lacked respect for my father. But when you grow up, let's say a couple of days, and you're not in the shelter, what do you do? You live in the street, you go to the rooms. I went to the rooms. I had to sleep in the park because, you know, in the summer, you know, I had three nights at his place. We arrived at the end of the evening, everyone left, and I didn't know if it had happened to me. But you know, it was always friends, generally.

It happened. And when does it end? I do small change flights, I find myself in the reception center. There's a judge who's going to talk to you. Well, I'll tell you, it's a short period of time, from 15 to 18, it's three years. In my head, I see it as such a long period, but so much has evolved over these years. Because I'm in the reception center, I'm with young people... Contravening.

Contravening, who are committing crimes, things I don't know. So again, it comes from the sport, I have a competitive spirit. I always want to do... If you do that, I'll try to do it, and I'll do it better than you. That's it. For me, it's because I'm going to look for value in there. And even for me, it gives me a kick to know that...

That's how it evolved. I was always the guy... the most game. It was me the first... You had balls. Yeah, I had balls. Which is a good thing in life sometimes, but on the other hand, it's not a good thing because you're always going to go further, higher, bigger than the others. It's my first to hit, it's my... You just said that, it's your first to hit.

Did violence come quickly into your life as a teenager? On your side of the story. My violence was always... ...on the other side of the story. It came from a place of... ...how others see it. I wanted to impress people. I wanted people to see me in a certain way.

All my actions were to feed that. But often, I wasn't someone violent by nature. I'm someone very sweet. But when there's something that motivates you like that, and you... I wanted to jump into it, and I wanted to evolve into it. So I did a lot of things against the grain, but I knew it would help me progress in my environment.

I don't know if you agree with me, and it's something I've talked about a lot with a lot of guests, but you know, we end up creating a character that we don't know, but we've created it so much and we play it so often that now we have trouble doing the contract without... Where does the character start and where does Ziad start, where does he end up? Ziad no longer exists at some point, it's the character that's there. And he feeds you with that. And at my age, it's because you become... If I'm not that character, what am I? Who am I? Fuck all.

Everyone knows that character. So if I want to keep my gain, I won't start saying, I don't care about that, give me steps. You'll be fucked. No, that's it. And I, all this period, as I told you, it's three years before I turned 18. And there are in-and-out youth centers. My father sent me to Morocco for almost eight months.

Oh, wait, I want you to send people a little bit to get out of Montreal. You're going to go to Morocco. You're going to go to your family's? Yes, I was at my grandparents' little bit. To go to Morocco. You lived with your family? Yeah, I lived with my grandparents, with my uncle who lived there. So I was always with my uncle. My uncle at that time was in the late 20s. And I was in adolescence, I wanted to be 16 in that area. So he sent me there without any specific goal.

With an allowance, the money they sent us, we lived off of that. So I lived like... I had eight months' vacations. I had eight months' vacations. I was with Kingpin because every time we went to Morocco, we lived in a relatively poor neighborhood. So I was the rich guy who...

In a poor neighborhood, you're rich. No, I'm almost like a prince. Other families want to marry me, almost, with their daughters. So when my father comes back eight months later, and he sees that I'm getting my ass kicked there, and that I'm saying, no, no, no, you're coming back. I didn't want to come back, I wanted to stay there. You were fine there.

I was fine there, but she cut my life and I stayed there. So even my uncle told me that she didn't hair and stay there. Even my uncle told me, Garas, don't be a bitch, it's not a life. Do you think you would have had... Let's say you were... I said it like that, hypothetically. But if you had stayed there, your father would have cut your hair. Do you think you would have had a similar path to the one you had there?

Do you think you would have taken those paths too? Listen, I have cousins over there who left in two different directions. Some of them went to prison over there, and others who succeeded in other areas, who are living a normal life, who work. I was already contaminated, if you will. I think I was in the way of the mob. That's what interested me at that time. Drinking, smoking good hash.

Wow, Morocco, you have a nice reputation. Honestly, I think it would have been good. It wouldn't have changed much. After our shoot, we'll talk about it because I intend to go to Francophone countries to discover you. You had cousins who made prison in Morocco. I would be curious to discuss prisons in other countries. We could have a little contact in Morocco. It might not be a bad thing. When you come back from there, did you actually come back to the point where you left? I came back. Initially, it was going to be another couple, it seems like a long period of time, but it didn't last long.

My parents had a business that lasted a long time. My father had a post-Canada branch, a sub-bureau. Okay. I escaped, if you will, because I had a good opportunity in life to take up the business when my parents... Maybe even do something else because it belonged to my father. It's still a beautiful corner, Saint-Laurent-Prince-Arthur. Ok, the building belonged to him. Yeah, we lived upstairs. Ok. There was the business downstairs.

I can't imagine how much it is worth today, this corner. He sold it. He bought it in the 80s and he sold it in 2010. You're putting me in a situation today. Already, it's sure he made a good profit. You're telling me today, already he made a good profit, but imagine 2010 to today, it's almost doubled. Even more.

But hey, that's it, I chose... The hand is waiting for you to be able to take it back. Yeah, exactly, but listen, working with my father is extremely difficult. As I told you, he's someone who's very authoritarian. And he must be much tougher with you than with other employees who would have had one. But he didn't have an employee, it was family. My mother worked with him.

No, but what I'm saying is that if he had one, it wasn't you, and he had an employee, he would have been less rough with an employee than with you. No, no, I don't think so. No, no? No, no. Okay, he's authoritarian with everyone. He's a dictator, my father. And it's my way or the highway.

And, you know, he almost put the family... He cut everyone off because, you know, if you were in disagreement with him, he's drastic. Okay. So that's it. I'm not someone who's able to live under pressure. So that's it. I'm not someone who's able to live under pressure. Ha ha ha!

So, that's it. But you say, at that moment, you got away. When you came back, you were working a little with your dad. The guys came back. That's when the descent was a little more... That's when the descent was a little more... That's when I started with qualified flights, you know... Robbie DuMonde.

And that's how I got... You know, the first time I was arrested as an adult for a crime, I went to the voice, you know, Robbie Dumont. And that's how I got there. The first time I was arrested as an adult for a crime, I went to the pen, you know. It was for a qualified voice. We had been to the dancer's, and we had spotted a guy who had a big palette, you know, it was in the afternoon, and he was gone, so we followed him.

He had a little 25, you know. And we followed him. He left at the Fauxbourg in time. I followed him there, and we... You literally broke him. 25. On l'a suivi, il est parti au faubourg dans le temps. Je l'ai suivi là, puis on l'a poigné son cache. On est embarqué dans un taxi. Pas le meilleur move à faire. On s'est fait poigner tout de suite comme des cabs. Je me fais arrêter pour un vol qualifié. T'es mineur ou t'es majeur?

Là, t'es majeur. J'ai 18 ans. J'ai 18 ans. J'ai sorti de Centre Jeunesse. Quand je suis sorti du Centre Jeunesse, j'avais peut-être 18 ans et demi quand j'ai No, I'm 18. I left the youth center. When I left the youth center, I was 18 and a half when I finished my contract. That's it, it didn't happen long after. When I was arrested, I had a lawyer. Office comrade. Office comrade. He just wants to settle the case. He makes me call the guilty. I'm taking three years. That's why.

What I should never have, you know... Well, first adult offense. First offense we want, even if there's violence. I would have pulled that off a little. And at that time, what year were you in? We're in 1993. 1993, so that's it at that time. Possession of weapons, it's not like today.

Today, it really went up because it's become intense. I possession of soul, it's not like today. Today, it really went up because it became intense. No, I'm not going to lie about the avocado, it's not complicated. I would never have had to take such a heavy sentence for that at that age. And the factors are attenuating, if you will. If I had pulled that off, I wouldn't have been at Penn, that's for sure. So now I'm going to go to Penn. I just wanted to ask you, just try to get closer to me. Just turn a little bit, just so that... Yeah, perfect. All good.

So you... You're 18. Young people are going to say that. It's not a prison, it's a prison. Compared to what you're expecting. No, no, it's another world. So you... When you're arrested, you do preventive work.

So you're a preventive partner. I'm a preventive partner. How long have you been a preventive partner? How long did you do it? Not long, before I could be a culprit. I'd say maybe three or four months. How long did it take to move from a shelter to a provincial shelter for three months? I got used to it. I fell into a trap.

They didn't have long banners. they had put me in the 11th in time. It was not old banners, it was all young people. I'm someone who adapts quickly. I didn't have any problems, I had a couple of business, battles, but I was someone who was involved. I'm someone who has always had a good relationship and I've always been able to adapt to the people and the environment in which I live. You're a bit like Camélion, you adapt to your environment. We're going to send you there. Perfect. You're going to the Penn.

I'm going to the Penn. Where are you going to be sent? I'm going to start in Leclerc. Okay. In the time that you're still a male. Yes, in the time that I'm still a male. Were you already disgusting at that time? Yes, it was still... Was it already disgusting at that time? Yeah, it was something.

At that time, it was the Alps who were leading there. Do you think it was already a prison for women at that time? I didn't know any other, but now... But now, to make the comparison, today it's clear that it was women. What do you think, that today it's a prison for women? That they did nothing and they put it up as a prison for women? They didn't do anything, and they put a prison for women. They must have changed some things in there. I mean, from what I hear, there's a collective ruckus right now.

They closed it for men, and they've put provincial women in there. No, it doesn't make sense. Honestly, when I was there, I didn't know any other, so I didn't experience that. Honestly, I was a little impressed. I went to high school. I was young. I was a kid. But you already have the mentality of knowing what you want to do in life. I haven't made a choice yet because I remember exactly the moment at the end of that sentence where I said to myself,

It's going to be this. It's going to be this. I'm going to the creme and I want... It's crazy when you have this mentality after leaving prison. When I leave prison, yeah. You often have this mentality before, but once you get a sentence, you're like, oh, Chris, maybe not. No, you're the opposite.

Yeah, because I didn't see prison as a big factor of suasif for me. I was able to live with that in the worst scenarios, but I think... You know, you think you know everything when you're young. And through that sentence, I met guys who were crazy. When I started, there was a range where they put me, in the time they called it the jungle, you know, the jungle, because it was all blacks, all ethnicities, there were Jamaicans, Haitians, we were all there, immigrants, and then the jungle.

And that's pretty much where I made my time. And once again, my character cameleon, I was with the Haitians a lot, I learned to speak Creole, it goes far from my business. When I talk to people, I usually adopt their accent, and it's not consciously that I do it. It's just because I feel that people are more receptive to... You're so used to adapting.

...to adapting, that it's like... And I speak a few languages, so that's how I learned them. And it was part of my... It was through immersion that I learned. Through that, I met guys who were in the gang. At the end of my sentence, I went to them and... Did you start to associate yourself with them, to do stuff with them, or did you just do your business?

We did our business. At that time, there wasn't a big business. The ethnic groups... They were in the 90s. Yes, that's right. It was the motorists who were running, the guys were doing stuff, but it wasn't at large the ethnic people who were running. It wasn't so much traffic.

What they were doing was for themselves. It wasn't constant. It wasn't regular. Sometimes they could have a package and liquidate, but there was nothing to regulate. There was no regular entry door. So for me, I wasn't really involved in the traffic. Sometimes I could buy a couple of grams, cut points, make a little cut like that to survive, but it wasn't just survival traffic, if you will, to remember.

So, what did you do when you were 21? Did you do your full three? I did it for two years. Two years. I did it for two years, and at that time it was two-thirds, but it's still there. You got caught at 18 and a half, approximately, so you had the three. I did it for two years, I was in conditional release. I fell into illegal freedom a couple of months later. I don't report anymore because I'm being called for a test drive.

I know I'm going to fail, so I'm not going to see it. I fell into illegal freedom. I just wanted to bring you back because you said you remember exactly when you decided it was going to be your life. Before I left, I met these guys and I saw myself in... It attracted me. The Brotherhood. The Brotherhood, the gangs, the guns, the feeling of power. Of power.

I wanted to engrave in there. The cash, the power, the women. Exactly. I heard all their stories, which were half true, today I know, stories of prison. But it still fueled my desire to be pregnant and evolve. So you go out, I make my transition, then I go back. And the transition didn't even work out.

No, I improvise. I don't change by saying whatever. I just change, I change, and I don't go to work. I go to do crime for memories. So I play with these guys. And that's when it deteriorates. Once again, it's not a long period of time. Between the time I went out in freedom,

I had a period of five months. But in those five months, I committed a period of five months, you know. But in those five months, I ate a lot of cream, you know. And that's when violence increased. Because I read the title of the book, Moisiade, Soldier of the Street Gangs. Soldier is a big word, I think. So that's why. But you know, it's not me who chose it.

No, no, no, but... You know, I mean, it's following your story that we decided to name it that. I understand the image a little, because in the end, I've never been a member of the street gang. And the guys I was with, they were OGs already, they were guys from the old gangs in the front, Master B, Belanger. Belanger, yes. Exactly. So they weren't members of the the gang. Because there was no structure. It wasn't structured like it is today. Exactly. But these guys were respected in the industry.

And the crime for which I was convicted, it was due to one of these guys who had been shot a few months ago. And he was in a long prison. I didn't know him. And they wanted to avenge him. And we managed to buy a couple of weapons. But at that time... But it's true that we arrived in Estonia,

but during these five months of illegal freedom, when you say, I committed a lot of crimes, without going into details, when you say, I'm a lot of crimes, without going into details, when you say, I sing and I'm going to do crimes to live, but you go, you're on your feet, so you do everything you can do or you go straight into dope, flight, everything is mixed. Everywhere. If you remember, sometimes girls who gave us, they have a lot of money in the file.

OK. So that's it. We went, we smashed, we tied everyone up, and we took it. Sometimes it was... There was no call, you know, there wasn't much. It was for information. But that's it, to live off the money.

You told me there was money there. There was no problem getting in there and tying everyone up. You told me there was money there, no problem to go in there and attach the world. You know, all that if we talk about this little character, you know, we write what we want to become, but at the same time, you know, I understand, as I told you, my goal is not to help, but you know, you say, you know, I'm a guy, you know, to rest easy, but wait, now that you have to want to go in there, to somehow attach the world, threaten with a weapon to leave with what they have. Sometimes even with fake weapons. You don't have to be connected with reality. Sometimes even with fake weapons. Oh yeah, okay.

Yeah. To get into places. And today, you know, I know the game. And you know, there are guys who are killed in this kind of drawing. Where do you go in a place? You don't know where you go in there. You know, it's not professional. It's really...

Well, lately, I was talking about it off camera. And it's funny that I got Well, recently, I was talking about it off camera, and it's funny that I got a letter from the mayor recently that says exactly what happened to his guy. They went in somewhere to kill each other, and they know they did it. Exactly. There are two young people, 18 and 19, who got killed.

It could have happened to me. I know guys who did it. I know guys who... Listen, I've heard so much about the business, and I'm still 51 years old. I've met a lot of people, and I'm trying to transmit it to the things I was doing. And life made sure that for me, the thefts always went well,

but I traumatized people. Is that one of your greatest regrets? The pain, not necessarily physical, but you know, that fear that you have, that trauma that you inflicted on people, is that something you think about a lot? Well, I had the time to think about it a lot. Yeah, no, that's it. In prison, and...

But you know, I can't really delay it anymore, you know. I've come to a place in my life where, yes, I regret all the things I've done. I'm aware of... But if they're done, they're done, you can't really hold back anymore. I've made a place in my life where I do regret all the things I've done. I'm aware of that. But if they're done, you can't go back. If they're done, I can't go back. I can't contact those people. I don't know if it would do them any good. There are so many. I have to accept that it happened. I regret it, but I'm not that person anymore. I can't focus on that anymore.

No, no, 100%. I know I'm a completely different person. I know I'm a good person today. But it's part of your journey of re-insertion. You say, I had time to think about that, because that's a big shift. And what can I do with that? That's what I'm doing today.

What I'm trying to do is talk to young people, to make them realize what I wasn't realizing at that time. And maybe it will come out of one ear and out of the other. But there are some that it will touch and that will be receptive to what happened to me. Listen, from experience with this project, since I've been doing it, I can confirm that it touches people. It has to go into a lot of ears to come out, but it stays. I've had messages from young people who,

there are some episodes that they woke up, I'm going to go, that's where I'm going. And they realize that I did this for this, and for the cash, and for the end, and for the boys, and so on. And at the end of the money, for the fame, for the boys, etc. And at the end of the day, what did it end up being? Guys who were millionaires and who have nothing left today because they're dead or they gave everything to the abducas. It never ends well. It ends one way or another, in prison or death. I haven't heard any success stories in there.

And all the harm you cause through all that, you live with that. I carry that with me, all the things I've done. There are people who are dead, it affected their families. I carry it with me every day. But I don't let that dictate my life. I have remorse, and what do I do today? It's part of the redemption quest. There's a chapter called the redemption quest.

And that's it. It's through good actions. Try to create, put some weight on the scales, to try to rebalance. You have to accept what you've been and what you've done. It goes through there. When we talk about alcoholism or consumption, the first step is to accept that you have a problem, but you have to accept the harm that has been done.

And to become aware of what led me to do these things and to engage in this trajectory. I understand. To what extent it was not worth it? To what extent these motives were very bad motives? I like to use the word illusory, because it's like an illusion. It's things that you think are there, it's tangible. But in fact, there's nothing. All the values that attract you in there, loyalty, the feeling, brotherhood, it's all fake.

It's fake. It's fake. It doesn't take much to give a knife in someone's back. We'll get to that later. I wanted to go back there. You're talking about that guy who was a hoochie in the street, who got shot, who was in a wheelchair. The guys want to avenge him. The guys want to avenge him.

You were still there wanting to make a name for yourself. I was in an apartment where we were chilling. That's where we had trees. He called me that night and told me to bring an automatic gun, a 9mm rifle. So I brought it, but I don't know why yet. He told me to bring it and go there. I go there. That's where we're going to go to that place.

There will be guys here. In the meantime, it was the CDP. It's the others who shot it. Cracked down bus if you think'm not mistaken. Yes, exactly. So I go there blindly. We pull each other. I never pulled before. I said I wanted to go.

For me, it was... There's something going on at night. It's the playoffs. You have to try to make a parallel. For me, it was like, okay, that's something that's going to... It's a step further, that's going to make a parallel. For me, it was like, okay, that's something that's going to... It's a step further, that's going to take me further. Exactly. So I'm going to go, so good, I'm going. We're going in a team. We're two vehicles.

And we're going there tonight. And I was driving. We stopped, we wererolled the area. And it turned out that I was at the wheel at that moment, and the guy next to me was the one with the gun. And the car in front of me was him who was able to identify, because he was one of the older guys, but he didn't know... So the car in front of you... He didn't know the targets. Exactly. So there's like a crowd of people, you know, about ten of them.

And the car in front of people, you know, about ten years old. And I was in the front, he was going to shoot me in the face. So I lowered the bench, opened the window, he pulled out the gun from there and he shot me. It went over you, you lowered the bench. I lowered the bench and he shot me in the front. Like that, my ears were shaking. And at one point I was on break. A bullet went through the windshield. And it would have been a little...

But listen, you know, it's disorganized at this point. It's dangerous, man. But I never looked. No, no, but just to be fair. Just the unconsciousness of saying, I lower my seat and I'm sitting in the front seat. I'm sitting in the front seat. That's it. I never looked.

That's why I don't have the visual of what happened that night. For me, that was it. On the steering wheel. It was in front of the windshield and a top of the car. And when the magazine was empty, it was from there. My ears were shaking. I never looked.

Everything else, for me it was like a movie. The next day, we watch the news. I learn that there are two dead. And there were six other people in there who are not dead, but... There were also injured. So... No, there were no other injuries. There were just two bullets that hit.

Okay. And the two bullets were fatal. Are you the people... Listen, you make me feel parenthetical, the word good, but are you the good people who were targeted and who were affected... The good people. Do you understand what I mean by the good people? Were they the targets? There was one who was a member of one of those gangs.

There was the CDP and the... ...Baby Boom System. Whatever. There's a girl who ate a lost bullet and died. She was 15. It's been a long time since I've been on the show with Auparlouard. I keep them because I like human people. I say that at every beginning of the podcast. A life insurance is something very important

so as not to leave people you love in need when you're not there anymore. at the beginning of each podcast. And a life insurance is something super important so that people don't feel like they need it when you're not there anymore. But unfortunately, if you have medical conditions, if you're a little too old, if you have a criminal record, is life insurance easy to have? Not always. Compare my premium to yours. They're not going to refuse.

They're going to take your record, they're going to read it, they're going to talk to you like you're a human being. They're going to take your file, they're going to talk to you like you're a human being. They're going to take you into consideration, they're going to listen to you, they're going to find you the company that will accept to give you a life insurance. They've been with me for a long time and I keep them because I have a lot of people who have passed by and who have given me positive feedback. Because it's humans who treat people not like customers, but like humans. Contact, compare my And, uh, you know, that affects me even today, you know.

Well, we feel it. And she was pregnant, you know. So, uh, and for me, you know, it's like, as I told you, I don't have a visual of anything, I hear that in the news, and then it's, it's's a big event, you know, a 14-year-old girl who is pregnant, she puts her big picture in the newspaper. There I become a little conscious, but again, for me it was... I didn't realize the loss of life, you know. Death, I didn't... For me, it was like, OK, we're going to pull through.

It's a film, it's a game. It's what happened. And I drank more at that time. I think it was a little to hide those emotions. Anyway, eventually, not long after, we kept on fighting. Did you talk about that event? It was pretty... it was done, it was done. It was done, it was done. After that, it was to get rid of the weapon from the vehicle. Did you have props? Guys in the top? Yes, I did that. I participated, I was there.

It had the effect you wanted, basically, to prove and go higher. Exactly. And already, the guys liked to go brak with me because I worked well. And I was the youngest of the gang. So, that's it. But again, it didn't last very long. For me, it feels like an eternity because so many things happened in a short period of time. But I ended up being arrested. I had a gun under me.

So I go back to the Leclerc. That's where the suspension was. Did you get arrested because of theam or because of that event? That event would never have happened to us. There was no evidence, there was no connection with the victims. The investigation would have been over, and it would have ended up in the court case. So that's it, I'm being arrested with a gun. And that's another story, that gun.

Because I got arrested with that gun, they charged me, you know, I was in prison for eight months. That's so bad! They add to the time I had left, you know. Oh yeah, because you were in legal freedom. I was in legal freedom. So, I got arrested, I could be guilty, and there you go. Two or three months later,

the homicides come and see me in prison. Because this gun, it had been used in the death squad in the engine war. It's a rock machine that got killed with this gun. And then you got rid of it, it was flipped in the river. It was flipped and it turned out that it was me who had it and I got arrested with it. So they came to question me for the murder,

I was arrested with a crime weapon. But it turned out that I was in prison when the murder was committed. So it's more like, OK, you caught the guy, and I found the news. I'm not talking about your age. That's right. As soon as I knew I was in prison, I was clear that there was going to be a better rally than that. No, that's it. Honestly, I have no idea about that thing. You're just a teenager, you're finished with that song.

Yeah, exactly. I didn't know much about it at the time. So I go back there, but in the meantime, there was a guy who didn't participate, who wasn't there on the night of the murder, but I talked about it, you know, that it was us who did that. He was arrested for something else, for having qualified him. He went to the police station, he wanted to get out of there, he said, I know who did such a murder, you know. So that's where the army grenade, he gave the information, who are the guys who did that, my name, the name of the other guys. So that's, it's, it's evolved their investigation because surely there was no clue, but I know there was no clue because we have the investigation reports. So it was just information, no where else, it's the others who did that, it's the others who did that, it's the others. But there, he gives them this information.

He wants to get out of it right away. He shows them things that aren't realistic. They say, wow, it doesn't work the same way. It ends up that he takes the time for that. He comes to worry me in the meantime because he gave me my name. They do the investigation. Then he starts talking to me about... About this event. I don't talk to the investigation. Then they start talking about this event.

But I don't talk to the police. I wanted to stay there to listen to what... What's the information they have to have? What's the information they have to have? Because when they ask you a question, they already know the answer. Exactly. But I didn't tell them anything. I said, listen, do you know this person?

I answered, for example, because I couldn't deny it. I said, I've known him for a while, I'm in prison with him. But beyond that, it's fucked up. And then they tried, they tried, it didn't go anywhere. But they were asking me for... And that didn't come from him. It came from another case where a police officer died who arrived in Cartierville, Audette-Pinard,

who was killed in a police station. So they think that I have something to do with this. So I have this police pressure. This is a case that is not settled yet. But I am one of their suspects for reasons I don't know. And now they're talking about the other death and they're talking about that. The homicides, my name is coming out. They're putting more and more stock on your back to put pressure on you.

Exactly. So now they're hitting me, I was at the hospital, they're hitting me in the hole. They're hitting me in isolation. I've been in isolation for three months and during these three months that I'm in the hole, they come to see me sporadically, you know, twice a week, you know. We go out, we try to calm down, put pressure on them. We know it's you.

They want to kill you because they know it's you. You know, a sort of technical investigation, but they don't give me anything for them. So they can't keep me more than hole for more than 90 days. It's a law. They don't want to get me out. They said at that time that I couldn't go to Donacona because I'm suspected in two murder cases.

They're increasing my maximum security code. But they say I can't integrate Donacona because I have a contract against him. Because I'm suspicious and it came out. It's all bullshit. He's preparing the other for an operation that I will explain to you. He can't keep me longer than 90 days. He sends me to the USD, which was the regional reception center. But it's a special detention unit.

You can't be more embarrassed than that in Canada. It's all the worst. So they send me there again, isolated. I'm alone, they don't even let me go out with the other guys. I'm really alone to isolate myself completely. So all I do for three months... Were you 22 or 23 years old? Yes. So, I'm in the hole.

When I was three months old, it wasn't worse. I had a TV. So, you can distract yourself. You can listen. After that, I don't have anything in the USB. I just have books. In the hole, where the TV is? Yes. It's not that small. It's a hole in the bottom. You're in your cell 23, 24.

Exactly. You have an hour of walk and you can take a shower too. Every day you have to take your info to have access to take a shower. Some people don't even learn. It's another story. Everyone deals with their personal hygiene as they feel it. I really appreciate my shower every day. So that's it. I had a TV at Leclerc at that time. After that, I transfer to the US where I have nothing. I just have access to books, so I read books.

A long day, I sleep. And it was screaming in there. I remember the environment. It was crazy. Even in the US, they didn't put me in the wings where there were residents who were there for a long time. They put me in the US hole. The guys who don't pass through the blocks,

or who are in the hole of the reception, who go there, so it's to scream. That was a real jungle. Yes, it was a jungle. In a month, again, I came, I was able to read through that hole. And that's it, I was reading books, he came to see me again.

And then a month later, he said, OK, we're going to update your transfer to Donacona. The information that your security is in danger, it's no longer up to date, you can join. I'm like, yes, sure, man. Finally, I'm going to be able to go, you know. A normal ban, a regular meal, a time to die. I was ready. So he was ready.

He sent me to Donnacona, in the same way as the man who initially gave our names to the police. But what happened to him was that he signed a contract with the police. In the meantime, they turned around and asked if he would accept to wear a body pack. And he accepted. So he sent me there, he welcomed me, he gave me food, the canteen. That's it, you don't know? I don't know, it's been five months I'm isolated completely.

You know someone who spoke, but you don't know who it is. I don't know who it is, you know, and I'm still young. You know, I don't know. So they isolated me for five months, where I had no contact with anyone. To see a familiar face, it made you feel good. They even sent me... I skipped that part because it was going so fast. There was a lawyer that I had hired, it was a legal aid,

because I was contesting that situation. They showed my security code for... Widgets. And they keep me isolated, and they put pressure on me. But she came to see me. She's the only person I have contact with at the time. When you're in the US, you're not supposed to be in direct contact with anyone. There's always a line or something, or you're in a meeting. But they put me in a room with her.

No meeting, nothing. She's next to me. Unwrapped. or otherwise you're a And then she asked me to write some things, you know. She asked me questions, she said, «Hey, listen, write, you know, so that...» I found that so weird, I said, «Okay, no, it's going to be good.» I wrote a couple of things, and when she asked me questions, «Yes, no, I took the paper, I tore it completely.» There was a paper, I ate it. I ate the...

You felt the strategy, so you think it was them who asked the lawyer to stop you? I think she wanted to because there was a big reward for any information... Oh, but Chris is an advocate. She can't ask herself. Her price is... The lawyer I had arranged was like... I don't know if it was her intern or if she was an advocate, but I started... I don't know, and I had... You were asking me weird questions. You didn't learn, but you found it weird.

I found it so weird that... I ate a torn paper. There were no criminals either. You didn't want to take a chance. I made you understand that... I'm not going to answer your weird questions. You didn't even want to ask me that. So that's it. It was the last time I saw her.

And I'm sure that's what she wanted as a reward. I think she would have made a $100,000 reward. And I was pretty much the only suspect she had at that time. It's the death of the police officers. Oh yeah, that's right. They're all on it. But not the drive-by. It's the 100,000. The drive-by is a kind of event. Yeah, but I think the 100,000 was more for the...

Yeah, and that's what I was being asked about. And I have nothing to do with that. The only thing I can say is that I was a barbershop who's not far from where this happened. We were armed and I had a bulletproof vest. And the guy who was there, I don't know if he said something or whatever, but I passed some polygraphs, that's why I'm talking about it, to apologize for those suspicions for the police.

I passed two of them, But we'll come back. I follow you, man. When you go far, I find it fucked up and sad. I get there, they welcome me, I say to myself, finally I can eat good food. I'm doing well, I'm fine, I'm calm. In a month, we walk in the corridor. That's when he had the surgery.

He had put a sewing machine in his coat. And while we were walking in the yard, they were in a circle. To see, to look at us. And he made me talk about the double murder. You know, you had already talked about it. I had already talked about it, but now, it's been so long since I've been isolated. You don't talk to anyone. And not only do I tell stories, but I put them in.

When you talk to your husband and you want to... You brag, you play around with that. Exactly, I brag. It's like when you ask a guy how many girls he has. And he always has eight more than the truth. I even say that it's me who pulled. Because I want to have the look of a killer. Exactly, a killer. I like the tour.

It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad.

It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking bad. It looks fucking me. The operation is done. I'm out of prison in Poland. In my head, they didn't accuse me of anything. My term ends in three months, I'm out. So during that time, I'm staying there. Excuse me, I was just kidding.

But you were going out with the same mentality as the last time you went out. Oh yeah, even worse. You were going out in a cup. Even worse. Honestly. You were pissed off that the troupe was like that and you were going out. Like that and I met people from the New World. It gave me the...

There's a big sentence. There's a big sentence in there. There's some weight. There's some weight and it's like the court of the greats. The mafias, the motorists, the bikers, the Colosseum, all the... And then I was the kid, I was in there, you know. And then, that's it. A couple of months later, we're in the gym. He calls the micro at the care center.

While we were on the phone with the same girl's click, you know, we were talking on the phonees. On parle au téléphone, fait que je prends le téléphone. OK, lui il s'en va là. Peut-être cinq minutes après, il m'appelle moi au centre de soins. Je m'en vais là. C'est la police qui est là encore. C'est les homicides. Ils ont un tape recorder. Je commence à les connaître là, tu sais. Après, je vois une fois qu'ils viennent m'en voir, je suis comme OK.

Ils viennent t'en voir au deux, trois mois là, tu sais. Non pas, plus que ça. I saw them once. They came to see you in a couple of months. Not much more. So... They sat me down in the office. They recorded a tape and said, we're going to play you a part of the proof that you counted. They were surprised.

I heard a conversation, but I didn't recognize my voice. When you were not with them. I didn't recognize my voice. I recognized Herbie's voice. I listened to it, and not long after, I recognized the conversation. It was a kick, what had just happened. I know what we talked about. I was in the same place. You were in the same place again. You were completely in the same place.

And I said to myself, how can they stop it? It started to... You don't even make the connection that it's him. I make the connection that it's him, but all this happens in the space of 10 seconds. Everything that happens in my head, like what the fuck, is there a bastard with a shoot talking to me? He's the one who's wearing a microphone, but he's calling him up to do something else. It was weird the other time.

All of this is processed quickly in my head, and I quickly come to the conclusion that this guy, man, he's wearing a microphone. If I press stop, I say, I'm going to go to my cell. Yeah, you're sure you don't want to collaborate, talk to us. I say, I'm going to go to the site, man.

So then he sees that I'm starting to, you know, let me go. I say to myself, I'm going to go get a beer. tell myself, I'm going to get a beer. Are you comfortable naming your name? I want to say his name, he said Jean-Charles. No, no, no, but sometimes it's not everyone who is comfortable naming names. No, no, I think everyone knows it's a rock, everyone is part of folklore, like my little story, it's part of prison folklore, because it's never seen before. To have a body pack in there.

To have a body pack in there, to give to Conan in a maximum security establishment. All the guys from the place came to see me afterwards, like, what the fuck, is that true? And he was also respected, a friend over there. And I was also getting paid because I was meeting a girl who came to give me drugs. So I was doing drug deals and I was active in the traffic. So you were building a reputation in there. I was building a reputation, I was making deals for those guys. So there was a connection that was created. So that's why you were saying that when you were going out, you were going to pay.

Because you had big contacts there. Exactly. So that's it. I was going to go there and they said, by passing a ball, we got him out, you know. No, it's clear. So they're accusing me of two murders and six attempts of murder. Double murder, two murders in the first degree, six attempts of murder. So, I know I'm not going to save for a while. But in my head, I'm talking to the lawyers, I'm talking about the legality of the hearing.

I'm in this process of, okay, it's the only evidence they have, it's this hearing. If I manage to get the evidence to be rejected, it's a only proof they have, that this listening, if I manage to get the proof rejected at Wack-Free, so that was the big thing about my case, legally speaking. So... The defense was on... It's the only proof they had, you know, I mean, there was no weapon, there was no witness,

it's just the electronic listening that was very incriminating, you know. Yeah, but at the same time, it's a guy who's bragging, it's years and he was bragging about a crime. I testified in my trial. I wasn't forced to do it, but in my case, I said to myself, I'm going to express myself well and I'm going to explain why I held those words. I appropriated those words because I was told so. I wanted to look tough, so I said to myself, I'm going to explain why I held those words. I said to myself, I'm going to explain why I kept those words. I took those words because I was told so. I wanted to look tough.

I said I did it, but it wasn't me. The court was asking me who it was. I said I wasn't here to answer the question. That was one of the points of appeal that was heard. The judge, because I refused to answer that question, sentenced me for outrage at the court, in court before the jury. It was like...

It's a judge who condemns you for another crime before a jury. That's not good. Yes. And besides, there's a jurisprudence in the criminal case, the arrest in Haradi. Related to you? Related to that. Related to my case, you know, that's it. So, that was essentially my defense.

And then the jury, well, they released for a couple of days, I think it was three days and a few, and they had a guilty verdict. They were sentenced to prison for life without the possibility of liberation before 25 years. And that's it. Without the possibility of liberation before 25 years? Yes. Well, at the time, it was the most severe penalty in the criminal case. But it often happens, it's 15 years. It pays off. First degree is 25 years.

If you can prove the first degree, which is very difficult to prove because you have to prove the premeditation. And me in electronic listening, it proved the premeditation, the way I talked about it, that we went there to comment. So first degree, it's the worst crime in the criminal code. You made an appeal. Excuse me? You made an appeal. It was the worst crime in the criminal code. You called for help? Pardon? You called for help? Yes, I called for help. It was a long process. There were two judges who were against me.

One of them was in favor of the call points. It gave me an automatic access to the Supreme Court. Because there was a judge who was in favor of you. It wasn't unanimous. I went to the Supreme Court, because there's a judge who's taking your place, it's not unanimous. So I go to the Supreme Court with the same call points, it's over, we talk for several years, and at the end of the line, I lose my case. So it's final, I'm 21 years old, 25 years old,

and there's no way around it. Unless there are new evidence elements that can be brought in, they could reopen the case, but... In my head, it's final, that's it. They could open the case, but I think it's over. That's it. We're a little off. No, no, but anyway, we'll come back. But if you had, if you had spoken,

if you had said, I was just a driver, if it wasn't me who pulled, it was that person, would you have collaborated. Could you have gone down to second or just, you know... I'm sure. How do you call that? A volunteer missile. A volunteer missile, thank you, that's what I was going to say.

It could have been. But it's never been an option for me. It's never been an option for you until the end. And for me, you know, to make time in the world for a mistake I made, I wasn't able to do that. I never even thought about going in that direction. I took the responsibility. I was... Did you receive... good words or props from certain people? Props were always implied because everyone knew it was a drive-by.

I wasn't alone, but I was the only one condemned. In electronic listening, I name the names of the guys. I talk about... they know who it is. So you talk about it names of the guys. I talk about them. They know who they are. So you talk about it in listening. Yes, I talk about it in listening. They know exactly who they are, but this proof is not unbeatable to them. Because electronic listening is due to a girl named David who concerns me. So they can't take that listening and say,

OK, he said, well, we're going to use it as a proof against them. You had to testify against them. I had to testify. And it to testify. It never happened. Those guys were met, they were under pressure. But they... They ended up doing it in the US. For other reasons. They went to the US and got a lot of trouble.

One of them got 17 years old. In the US, you do 85% of your time. So they did it in a little more rough conditions. Even here in Canada. Are there guys you still contact today? No, I don't have any contacts, but there's one that I've seen again because when you finish your sentence in the United States, they bring you here. In Venice, yeah.

There's still a little bit left. And it made me feel like I was playing poker in there, and then there are new guys coming. And I was the oldest in prison at that time. Oldest in terms of shifts? Yes, in terms of the old age of the game. I was 8 or 9 when I was in Archambault. I was at home. Every time there were new guys coming in, I would watch them. But then I saw one of the guys who...

In that case. ... who was there. I don't really remember. No, we won't remember. And it was like a shock. I thought I'd never see him again in my life. We jumped into each other's arms and everything. And my book had already been published, but he had heard about it and I had released a book. So I gave him a copy and made him read it. He didn't know how to process it, because in the book I was talking about crime, what happened.

The event. He was like that. After a couple of days, I watched him, I didn't know how he was going to react. Yeah, you're... I don't know. You were walking with an eye looking back. Yeah, and I wanted to see how he was going to react, but I was ready for any eventuality. I assumed what I was doing in life.

If I got involved in this process, it wasn't to put the light on the world or whatever. Otherwise, you would have saved time long ago. Exactly. It's never been that way. Names aren't names, but when he says that, he... There you go. He knows the story. He's there. He knows you're talking about him, but it's easy to get an image of...

He had to process that. I didn't know exactly how he was going to deal with that. But finally, even him, he came out like a month or so before he left and he thought the police would come and get him when he left. It was like, but he came out 17 years ago in very rough circumstances. They paraded him from several prisons, the federal, over there it's another game, another stage. So, he finally left. I trained with him during that time.

He was always a tough guy, even before. His exit was tough, but at that time, I was also... I was doing a cycle, so I was... I was very fit. So, that's it. He ended up leaving, and... I didn't get in touch with him. I saw him in the newspaper last year. Ok.

He was arrested for traffic down. The wheel turns and... The wheel keeps going, that's it. He's involved in this road and he's going to get beaten up as he should. Because today, people have taken so much to heart that... He was watching the proof he had against him and everything. Because today, men have taken so much in their hands that... I was looking at the proof they had against him and everything. I don't know how much he's going to be able to get out of this.

25 years. Bam, you're 100 years old now. I don't even have the concept of what 25 years is exactly. I'm not even 25 years old yet. No, no, no, but that's it. But you know, I mean, how do you point out a 100 years of life? Well, at first I say to myself, OK, I'm going to take the call, you know, I'm going to... We're going to get out of it, we're going to save ourselves.

Exactly. It's not like I'm coming and you're complaining, I've been doing this for a couple of years, I know what environment I'm in, you know. I don't know, it's strange, all that. But during that period, because you know, the trial, the trial tent, everything, it's been two years and a half, three years, between my accusation and my conviction, you know, my trial, my conviction. And during that time, you know, my sentence ended in a draw, so I went to the provincial court. As a pretext, yes.

Exactly, you know. It was during the engine war at that time. At that time, there was no... I'm a nerd. Where did they put you? I was in the Rock Machine wing because there were many... In Bordeaux? No, in RDP. Ok, they put you in RDP. We opened RDP, in fact, because it was just the period when they transferred partners to RDP.

RDP was brand new. So I'm going to the woods with the Rock Machines during the war. It's the Sharks, they sent everything to Bordeaux. Yes, exactly. That's why I had Bordeaux in mind, now it's the Sharks who filled Bordeaux with 660 guys. During the war, it was the Rock Machines. We were in the same place, in the same prison, but in different wings. And then, when it was going on,

there were people crossing each other, it was the mess, it was war. And there was no nerds, you know? Pick a side, you know? You have to take a side. You have to take a side, there was no... No, it was war, because there were people who were passing by as nerds,

who were going there, who were making hits. So there was no... No, it was... It wasn't a good period during the war. You were in Calwing. I was with the Iraq. It was the Iraq Machine. I had a lot of my friends who were with them.

And I was with them. So that's it. I spent two and a half, three years with all the guys during the war, all the big events, but we only had three of them, which were Rock Machine. Everyone knew each other, all the members, they were getting along at one time or another. I was still there for a long time, I was still... I think I was the oldest. At that age, it's crazy, you know, the same. And it's because it's been the longest, you know, I was still...

With the pebbles, you know, I did... I don't know if I want to name it, but... But if he was in there, he was in there. Yeah, in there, you know there with Raymond Desfossés. He had taken me by the wings in the morning. He had taught me a little bit of discipline. It wasn't a long period of time because they came to get him. He had charges in the United States. So one year he lost his recourse.

It's not important, I think. One year they came to pick him up in the middle of the night. They had to bring him to in the middle of the night. They had to bring it to the United States. But during those few months that I was with him, I got up, we were the first to get up in the morning. We did our push-ups, we did the cleaning. It's a discipline that I tried to keep.

But you have to manage to build a structure, a routine. Yes, it's the routine in prison. That's what allows you to spend the days. structure, une routine. Oui, c'est la routine en prison. C'est ça qui te permet de faire passer les journées. Moi j'ai toujours essayé de m'établir des routines. Puis avec le temps la routine change. Mais oui. C'est quoi qui te manque le plus quand t'es en dedans? Moi tout me manquait parce qu'honnêtement c'était tout... Tu sais comme je t'ai dit, j'ai pas été dehors longtemps. But I missed everything, because honestly, it was all...

As I told you, I didn't go out for a long time. There was a lot of life experience that... Well, it's a little... I'm talking about your age. You're supposed to run around with girls and have fun. I didn't have that. I got married twice in prison, and I had a third wife. Okay. That I'm with today.

Besides, it's been over 15 years. I greet her later, Marilyn, I love you. Are they girls for the rolls or...? Well, listen, we have to... I don't know if you're comfortable with them or not. For people, I can just quickly explain for people who don't know what it's like in the French language. We're going to go in order, you know. The first one was just during that period when I was already accused.

But I was just finishing my time in the pen before my time in the provincial. I met a girl through a friend, she made me talk to her on the phone. I wrote letters, it's crazy how we're in prison, how we're... The pen comes out. The pen comes out. The pen comes out and... They become lovers. The guys with big tannams become big lovers. And that's it. She ended up coming to see me at the visit.

I ended up being an influencer for her to bring me packages. Packages, packages. At some point, we got caught. So I went to the Toulouse, we cut our visits for a while, one of the packages. At one point, we got caught. So I went to the office, they cut our visits for a while, but I kept... Did you get a sentence or...? She didn't. Okay, but you're lucky. Yeah, she didn't. I was... No, it's not true.

The first time, it's true that she had something... Yeah, that's what surprised me. No, she had something... But it wasn't... You know, I was the one who took the big one, I played the guilty ones right away, it was just hash. It wasn't hard drugs. So I took... But she still had something, I don't remember exactly what it was, but ironically...

You mean a little bit of probation and... Yeah, but that wasn't what fucked her up the most. When I met her, she was a police technician. She studied to become a police technician. She studied to become a police officer, so it became an option for her. But you didn't force her to do it either? No, I didn't force her, but I influenced her. You influenced her, but you're still responsible for her actions.

When a girl falls in love with you, especially at a young age like that, she's going to do anything. Plus, she's going to do anything. Plus, it's going to be a lot of money. She can also go out to clubs. So it hasn't been too hard. So there's a couple of visits during a boot. We keep writing and talking. One year, a couple of visits.

After that, she comes back to see me. She decides that I'm going to go to the Rolls. It's a couple of... So she comes back. visit. provincial, y'a pas de roulottes, mais aussi que je prends ma sentence, je retourne à Danakona au maximum, pis on se marie. Mais ça pour le monde qui sait pas, c'est que t'sais, les roulottes sont accessibles, les roulottes là, c'est comme des gens de petits condos là. Ouais, un genre de petit quatennemis, de différentes grosses sœurs. Tu peux savoir ta femme. Fais-tu absolument que tu sois marié ou...

Non, faut pas que tu le sais. Si tu te maries, tu y vas tout de suite. C'est't. If you get married, you go straight away. Right after the wedding, you start. Otherwise, you have to go on visits for at least, at the time, it was two years or a year. I think it was a year. She has to come see you regularly, and then they do a case study and they can give you... So that's the reason why you got married. It was really... We want access to visits.

Or if you arrive and you're dating and you can prove that you have a lawyer together, it's a relationship, they will give you your It depends on how many guys go. There are some establishments that only have two. Does it depend on the whole coast too? No, everyone has access. Unless you've had some kind of joint violence or something like that. As I said, each case is a study. But if you're sent to the hole for something, they won't get you out of the hole to bring you in a roll, I guess?

Yes. Oh yeah? If the roll is already sealed, it depends on why you're in the hole. OK. In each case, they can cut it at any time. It's a privilege. So... Yes. The longest I've been with rolls, it's in Archambault because I was there almost 11 years old.

So... Yes, but there was another woman who was between the two. So... So, yeah, I had another woman who was between the two. So, she, that's it, it was a fight. She ended up cheating on me with another of my friends. And that's it, at one point, I sent her to get a couple of friends from one of my friends. So, he came to see her and ended up jumping at her. And he ended up putting her pregnant while he was with me.

And now, I don't really know how to say it. You have to tell me. I understand the pregnancy side is something, but even if you're locked up, I can understand that on your part, I can't give you everything you want, so you can't go looking outside. No, no, no. It was treason for me. In addition, it was... It's not like she didn't know.

She knew you, Chris was married, and he was trying to save a life. No, no, it was a total treason. I took it very badly. I was getting up with charges because of that. Because I made threats of... I took it very badly. I got up with charges because of that. I made death threats. She called the police. She had a heart attack.

But finally she didn't give up. It's not presented. So it fell into the water. But after that, I spent several years without seeing a partner. Then I met another woman. I married her to go to the wheel right away. It didn't last long, it lasted maybe a year. She wasn't able to follow, so she made her own decision. I met another woman who cheated on me.

I met my wife, who I'm with today. She's got it wrong. I met my wife today. She's been with me for 15 years. How long have you known her? It's been 15 years since I've been with her. It's been 3 years since I've been out. There was no guarantee that I would go out. She's a really strong woman. How did you know? It makes me laugh.

It's not stupid, but I'm just curious how a girl who's out there, who has access to a lot of guys, and not that you don't deserve it, and so much the better. But you have to know where you're going. They know where they're going, but I think it's more a question of attention. When you're with a woman and you're in it, you call her three or four times a day. When guys who are out there, especially at a younger age, they don't communicate with their wives like that. So it's deep conversations. There's a quick gain. Exactly, and it's text messages, quick calls.

You always have to be in seduction to keep it. Exactly, and I become part of his life. His phone never dropped. I called him three times a day. I wrote letters. And then it's a culture, she's just seen it. It's a relationship that is cultivated in a very organic way. That's how it happened for me. And I saw it happen with others for different reasons.

She fell in love with me and we fell in love with each other. I'm glad to hear that. It's good. Do you think that's what saved your life? Well, a lot. It's a big contribution. But during that whole period, I had a period of depression while I was with her. I fell into depression. I was so angry, I didn't even dare to talk to her. I was trying to get over it, I didn't know what was going on. It was really a depression. I don't know if you're familiar with it. I'm very familiar with depression.

It's hard to explain. When you don't live it, and I think even when you've lived it, but you don't live it, it's even a panic attack. I've been in this for years, and I'm with someone who did one, and I go, no, it's nothing, it's in your head. And I was like, Big, I know it's in my head, I'm not a fool, but it's not in your head. I just want nobody to talk to you.

You just want to be in the bubble. Stop asking me know it's in my head, I don't cry. I'm not a coward, but you don't cry. I just want nobody to talk to you. You just want to be in the bubble. I just want to ask how it's going. And on the other hand, these people just want to help you. It comes in a good place, but you're like... You're in the bubble, and leave me in my dark side. I have a little completeness in there. You have dark ideas, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went through all of that. I wanted...

I've already thought a lot about suicide. I went through that period. But on the other hand, when I look at it in retrospect, you can't not think about it when you don't see the outcome. And on the other hand, I've never done it. So... I've never done it before. So maybe somewhere she built a lot of... I had a reason to live. When I met her daughter, she was nine years old.

She was like a young age, we had built a relationship. I had people in my life, I spoke with her family. So I eventually got out of it with medication, I had people in my life, I spoke with his family. So I eventually got out of it with medication, seeing a psychologist and talking. I ended up emerging a little from all that. It's good to be able to, you know, a guy like you who has a street mentality,

big prison and all that, but to have... I have to talk to someone in the morning, you know. Just to have the reality of yourself doing... I'm not doing well, you know? But they must also see that you're not doing well. Well, yeah, people see it, you know? I'm one of the furniture there. When they observe your furniture, they see it.

You know? Everyone noticed... You know, it was a bit obvious, you know? And until a certain point, the world was a bit reluctant to approach me. Even people I considered friends, I didn't want to talk to anyone. There's something you said that made me think of something. You said you were talking to your family.

Yours? Mine? I didn't have much contact with my family. It's not radical. I called many times and they abandoned me, if you want to say the real deal. They came to see me during the whole incarceration period three times. Okay. Three times. And it took ten years before the first time. It must not have been easy for your father.

You described to us the man you were. I think it was more difficult for my mother, because I know that she would have come to see me more often. No, but I'm talking about... It was difficult for your mother not to see you. She would have come to see you more often, but it was difficult for your father to come to see you. They came together. Did you have any talks with them? Did he see it as a paternal failure? You have to ask him. I never really had communication. I think everyone in my family has lived it their own way. I have a brother too.

That's what I meant. Your brother... He lost a brother too. We're just two. My mother lost a son. For the rest of us, my mother had already said that she would have preferred that I die, that I get married, because at least she could have had a date. And the fact that her suffering lasted all along my incarceration. And I think she couldn't have lived that the way she wanted to, because she always followed my father. You said she left us a month ago. Did you have the opportunity, since you left,

to get back into touch with your family? When I left my mother, I didn't find her again. She was already ill. She was still conscious, she was still lucid. She saw me, you know, but she had conversations, no, she was not there anymore. So she had the opportunity to see me outside, you know, out of prison. And to be aware of that. I don't know how much it did him good, but then I had the opportunity to present my son. That's something that really stuck with me.

At least he had a contact, even if he was a baby, with his grandmother. I'm a little bit surprised that I changed, I'm not, I'm not coming back. It was long, but the path is made. Exactly. So that's it. But my parents are essentially in Morocco. When they came here, they came a couple of months a year. Is your father still in... He's in Morocco. He's in Morocco and that's why he's going to come soon to settle things.

He's in a little death case. He has a pension, he has to cut it off. In that case, he's going to come soon. That's all to say that during my incarceration, I didn't have any support from my family. That's something that hurt me and until today it still hurts me. But you still can't have a good talk with your father today? A good conversation from man to man?

No. About what happened, about your experience? No. And it won't happen, do you think? It won't happen. I've been mourning it. Okay. I've been mourning it. It's not someone who is... in charge of the constructive dialogue. But they'll come soon. You'll see, I guess.

Yes, I've seen them too. They'll have your son and all that. I'll bring them. Our contacts are not friendly. It's superficial. It's going well. Do you have a similar relationship with your brother? My brother is the one who bought the house. The business? No, not the business. It's not far away, but there's a triplex. And there's a floor for my parents.

He doesn't live there, so he lives downstairs with his children. So... Is there a privileged relationship with him? Well, privileged, you have to say it quickly. It's still the man he is, no matter what. Exactly, it's heavy being with him. He always needs something. And my brother has a lot of responsibilities.

He works for a big company, a big job. And with him, were you able to get along with him? A little bit, you know, we talked. But he also works a lot. He made his life... He made his life today. His work takes up a lot of his time. And he has little free time.

We talk sporadically too. But I have two nieces that I didn't know. I met them the first time I got out of prison. And that also hurt me, you know, that I couldn't establish a bond. It's difficult, it made me a teenager. They're in Montreal, I'm in Laval. I have my little one, so I don't have the opportunity to... Not yet, it's not something I've closed the door to,

but I'd like that. On your 25-year sentence, you only committed? I ended up committing 27 before I left. You know, I know guys who had a contract and who did 15, 17. No, I did 27. How come? It was harder for me to leave because I had moments with a role during my incarceration, you know,

stories of traffic, battles, you know, those are... So did you ask for conditional release? No. You didn't make any request? No, but I couldn't anyway. You knew you had to make requests. Before 25 years, I couldn't make the request, you know. I wasn't elected and then I was already in my dates, I was at the minimum, so...

You know, I could have asked for a judicial review, and tried to lower my eligibility. But in transition, and you could have done that before 25 years. Yes, but I thought I wasn't even eligible for the judicial review. I've never been well informed about that. With the death, because that's what I told myself. But I thought because there was a law that had passed, that if you had more than one death in the first degree,

you weren't eligible for judicial revision. Okay, I admit that the guys... I'm talking about you, there's one, it was more like the 80s, but there's another one, Emmanuel Ouellette, maybe you know him. Yes, but it's one death, but I was saying... You were saying, oh yes, he was one. If you have more than one death at the first degree. You're not eligible for judicial review. The law passed. After that, I was eligible without knowing it. I knew it when they sent me the documents to make my adaption. But with your prison career, you wouldn't have done it anyway.

After that, that's it. I hadn't done... When I started young, it was just that. I was trafficking, and I was always involved with the bad crowd. I went down to the maximum and went up three times. Once for drugs, once because I grabbed a guy. Wait, you're telling us that on the fly, quick, dry, crisp. But there's not a moment... Was that self-defense or...

Self-defense? Yes. No, it wasn't self-defense or... Epic? Yeah. No, it wasn't self-defense. I'm a little ashamed to say that. Often people think that conflicts in prison are serious things. No, it's a slap in the face for a door that's too closed. But it's not the door that's too closed, it's the disrespect or the perception of how... No, no, no, but that's it.

What happened this time... The problem is that it's not the noise, it's the concept of respect that... What happened this time was a hockey story. Hockey? Yes, I played hockey, he gave me a board that I didn't like, I hit my back, I fell, we pulled each other a little,

it's ice, and I didn't have oil on it. So in my head it was like... I was already like... I saw red, I had to... I was singing that he didn't respect me, you know. And at that time, I estimated that I had, you know, I had a certain status. You deserved respect.

Exactly. And I was still young, I wasn't, you know... When I look at it in retrospect, you know, he probably didn't even know the guy, you know. It wasn't a guy who was involved in... At that time, it was in Croix-en-du Coensville, it was still a big pain, you know, with almost 500 people in there, with maybe he didn't even know me. And I had just arrived, it didn't even... You know, I had just come down to the maximum,

it was maybe a month or so, not even. And then he arrives, and if you're there, I'm going, I take off my skates, I'm going to get a pick, man, and I wait for him, you know, until he lands the ice. And when he lands, he says, you know, he doesn't know that I'm armed, you know, he thinks we're going to fight back, you know. And again, I see him, he's not afraid of me, he doesn't respect me.

So I say, there's people watching, you know, that I'm there, so I have to make a move, I can't back him, he's there in my head. The character that lands. Exactly, if I back him, well, listen, I'm the guy who I have to make a move. I can't back, he's there in my head. The character that's boarding. Exactly, if I back there, well, listen, I'm the guy who came with a pick, and he backed and didn't do anything, so that's it. I took a pick shot, just to show that I didn't really want to do it, I picked him in the thigh. And when he saw that I was armed, because he didn't show up,

he thought we were going to give him a punch, but... He had the red wood, I stabbed him in the thigh, and then when he... he turned his ice, you know? Because he was on his feet, I was in the box, you know? So there were a lot of people who came back. I did that in front of everyone, like a cave, so... It took two days before they came to pick me up to get back to the max. All of this for a stupid hockey story. It's stupid.

How long did it take before this mentality left? Because if you left... Today it's been three years? It's been three years, yes. I mean, after 27 years, did it take 27 years? Did it take your exit or did it start, or the journey to become a citizen in my nose? And I imagine your wife, you met her and... But before I met her, I had to become a citizen, I went through several stages. It's really a question of all the way of life, all the criminal world that is illusory, as I like to use the word.

And when you really start to see the real things, you don't want to be part of that world anymore, but you're like, I'm still there, I'm still in that environment, and I don't want to be the guy who... who... who, you know, suddenly turns his back on everyone, and I'm in there, because I know how it's perceived, you know? So it's done gradually, organically, so that guys understand that...

OK, this guy, it's been so many years, we know him, we know who he is. It's normal that he gets away a little, if he wants to give himself a chance to get out. So, the guys have always respected that. Because at one point, the traffic, the boats, the stories of spikes, it must be, you know, you age, don't you? I'm old, and then at one point, you know, at the end, I can't say I was white as snow, you know, but I wasn't directly involved in traffic, but you know, I always had to make sure I was white as snow, but I wasn't directly involved in the traffic. But I always had to be comfortable. So I would come to get packages, put them in someone's hands,

and just to have my canteen, to have a couple of coins. But the violence and all that... No, no, violence, I eliminated that. You know... The only time I was in danger of having acts of violence was when I was doing sports. Okay. The athlete stayed...

Yeah, that's it. Sometimes you get hit as if you didn't like it. And you know, I don't know if you play hockey or if you know that. Yeah, a little bit. You know, you become Mr. Hockey, you're in the culture of hockey. There are a lot of things that you have to answer, you have to co-equip, you have to protect it. I was already surprised that he wanted to have skates and hockey sticks in his hand. Yeah, and there are periods where it plays rough. It's not at its maximum to have skates and...

At its best? At its best, yes. There's been no more, but in my time, she had a skateboard. When she played rough, we played contacts, and it's wooden bands, it didn't hit. It doesn't absorb a lot of shock now. I was faster a little, I was able able to avoid contacts, but I liked that. But yeah, that's the only real environment for soccer or basketball, a lot of destinations.

It's the only place that I could be in danger of being involved in acts of violence, but I was aware of that over time. What made you want to participate in writing this book? Well, it's an opportunity. Initially, I had shot in a documentary called The Time Intro. And that's it, it was about life. I was invited to participate in it because I needed a younger guy. It was old people who participated, you know?

They wanted to have a younger guy in the news. So I participated in that project. I told my story. And there was one of the producers who had been to school with Vincent. And he wanted to write a book. So he approached me. And I always went to that stage of my life. My period of questioning was really good. It was the time I started.

It was already well understood, you know. So he contacted me, we talked, and we got started on that project. And I was for... once again, you know, to balance it. I wanted to do something positive, you know, to try to help the young people, you know. How is it to get out after 27 years? How is it? Yes. I'm still in it and I'm not yet in the right place in society. I did a couple of jobs, then I did a training. But to start, the first thing is technology. Well, that's it. We're talking about another world.

I entered in 1986, I left in 2022. The world is changing. I'm in the middle of a new era. I'm in the middles, I'm out in 2022. The world has changed completely. 100%. Everything is fast. And now I still had a concept of what it could be.

I've always had relationships. The phone still came in. A little, but not so much. I had some small start-ups like that, but smart phones... The iPhone. Towards the end, it started when the drones started to drop. It's not that long ago that drones...

No, it's drones everywhere, they drop what they want. I used to have quite a few to have stock today. Today, they're easy. If it doesn't while, it was a lot easier to have stock than today. Today, it's easier. If it doesn't plug, it doesn't work. That's it. It was that. It was the visits. Sometimes I had plugs where there were other possible entries. But Aster is nothing. It's dripping.

I think they lost control. I don't know what what they can do. They're not going to do it. They can't do that. It's a problem. I'm glad it's not up to me to find a solution. No, no, no. It's a flu. The drones are telling you.

It's completely sick. They don't know what to do. The guys are getting their asses kicked and the next day they have a... The last iPhone that came out, it's a mess. It's like that. In the meantime, they didn't have that. It's like the guys are shooting music videos in there. They make stories.

It's crazy. You adapted to that, how was it? To have life in the palm of your hand. You have the planet in the palm of your hand? You have the planet in the palm of your hand. How is that? And it's become a... Do you have one today? You've become one with that. I've become one with that, and it's indispensable.

That's it. Now, I'm saying thank you, but I'm not going to say thank God because I'm not a believer. No. I thank my partner who helps me a lot. And until today, even for all the steps with the government, I have problems with my Social Security card, which I haven't even settled yet. They consider it dormant because it's been several years.

So I'm asking for unemployment. Since my Social Security number is considered dormant, it doesn't give me my loan. I need to present documents to reactivate it. And in those documents, it takes proof of citizenship, a citizenship card or a valid passport. So I don't have that. So I need to go through the process to get my citizenship card. It takes three months.

And the formulas are like overwhelming. The government's paper. The government's paper. I wouldn't have my wife. Christ, you've been a number at the government level for a long time. Yes, well, that's it. And an inactive number. I come from nowhere. A 50-year-old man who has no history, nothing. So no, it he has nothing.

So, no, it's not easy. And even at the level of employability, you know, I took care of a couple of jobs. I did a training in food grocery, I completed it. I started working in there. There was the health problem that came out, you know, I had severe arthritis in my knees. And I have a ligament tear that they don't even want to operate because... J'ai une déchirure dans l'igament qui ne veulent même pas opérer parce que c'est un menisque, c'est une déchirure complexe, ça ne te donnerait rien de l'opérer encore parce que j'avais déjà une opérateur. Tout ça pour dire que physiquement je ne peux pas supporter le messie en construction.

Je ne sais pas si tu es d'accord, c'est quelque chose qu'on m'a répété souvent, la prison ça te magane encore. Surtout moi, je fais beaucoup de sport. Non, mais juste, tu sais, a metal bed with a mattress, a pillow, a pillow, a pillow. I always had good mattresses, I asked for double, you know, and it's not more that they beat me. I play sports, you know, I did sports two, three times a day, hockey, basketball, soccer, training,

the articles, it's my knees that ate the slap, you know. So I don't have any more... Then the quarterfinals, they shot me in the cortisone in my knees. Cortisone infiltrations, it helps. But I have to pivot at the job level because I can't work without construction. I can't carry a 40-lb. bag all day long and go up stairs, stairs. I'm sick. I can't... What are you aiming doing right now?

I would like to work in intervention. I would like to give lectures. Did you think about writing a lecture? I'm in it. I'm starting now. I know I have the skills and the capabilities to do it. Clearly, you're doing 1 hour 45. Maybe we should talk. You're expressing yourself very well. I'm not sure how to take it. I need to help. I know that in this field, it's about establishing a good network of contacts in the field. And it's in there through...

Well, anyway, I can tell you one thing. Several people, following their passage to the parlor, had opportunities. So I'll wish it were a good opportunity. I'm not sure if it's a good opportunity. I'm not sure if it's a good opportunity. I'm not sure if it's a good opportunity. plusieurs personnes qui, suite à leur passage au parloir, ont eu des ouvertures, ont eu des opportunités, fait que je vais souhaiter que ça soit supporté. Mais tu sais, déjà t'as d'autres aussi. Je suis un peu l'exclusif, je suis le premier, mais je sais que t'as une petite run, une petite run d'entrevue qui s'en vient aussi.

Je me lance là-dedans assez aveuglément, mais dans l'espoir de poser comme ma candidature, I'm going to go in there quite blindly, but in the hope of posing as my candidacy and to see where it can lead me in there, if I can't be part of the solution. I'm ready to invest in there. I don't know at what level, how, what, but I know I have the skills and I know that young people are generally receptive to my speech. Not just young people, even the most prominent ones in the Cégeps or whatever, I know I can bring something to their training. This mentality that you have lived for a long time, that you have had for a long time, because right now I have the impression that you are living something a long time. Because right now, I feel like you're living something

that could easily make you... make you a Is there no gain, no ease? I'm not saying you're going to go, but is it something that sometimes stresses you out? No, but I know it's always a possibility. I just went when I know where it is, but for me it doesn't interest me. I have a boy, I have responsibilities. I had a chance at life that I thought I would never have. Why would I scrap that to go into an environment that I know is dirty and that will be ephemeral? What will I be able to harvest in there?

Maybe I'll make a cut, maybe I'll have an envelope there, but there's always something attached to the envelope. So no, for me... You don't want to go back to prison? No, no. And, you know, life is like that. Life of curveball, left to right. And, you know, you'll swing and you'll miss sometimes, but you'll have another headbath. So, no, I don't give up. And I consider myself privileged to have a chance at life.

So, I always put myself back when I thought I was going to die over there. I thought to myself, it's a bonus you're living. And you're in conditions of liberation until the end of your days? Yes. You have a contract of life, so you're getting paid. Yes, but I just got my full pay, it hasn't been long. Every week I see an agent. Excuse me.

And I have the conditions to respect. Financial disclosure. Excusez. Puis j'ai des conditions respectées, de divulgation financière. Garder la paix, j'imagine. Ouais, ouais. Alcohol? Alcohol, non. J'ai eu de l'amié, mais là, ils me l'ont enlevé. J'ai pas de loi de boire. Je suis pas un grand buveux, j'ai pas de fois de temps en temps.

Ça va-tu? Ça va-tu? Ça va. Ça va. Ça va. C'est juste que, tu sais, j'essaie de me placer dans la société. Is it going well? It's going well. I'm trying to get a job in society. Financially, it's a bit more difficult. My wife works, I'm paid. I managed to get some money.

The book was a bit ahead. I need to find something. I feel a bit bit of that pressure. For example, I'm on a job break. So even unemployment, because of the problem I explained to you, I know it's going to come back, it's going to come back retroactively. For now, I'm in the water and I just have the sun coming out. It's not the time to go crazy right now.

No, no, it's not. And there won't be any crazy people. No, no, but crazy, I think that's it. You can't go eat at the restaurant when you want to. You can't. I'm talking about... There's no luxury, there's no extra. There's no luxury, there's no extra. There's nothing missing, you know, but I know I have to pivot quickly and find something that will allow me to remember my needs and that of my family. So... I would like to... I would like to...

I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... I would like to... You have this camera, the one we see there,

which will turn on soon, but which finished talking to you. Yes. A message that you want the kids to... If there are a couple of words that you do like, that's what they have to get into your head, kids. What would you tell them? I would tell them to change their mind. I would tell say to them?

I would tell them about the choices they will make in their lives. Choices are important. They can have big repercussions. At a certain age, you will be confronted with certain choices. And these choices, if there are some who can choose to go and do this or that, there can be repercussions that will last the rest of your life, and not just on you, but on your family, on the family of potential victims. So you always have to be careful with the choices you make, and think about't go blindly. So I have specific moments in my life where I know that I was confronted with choices.

And I knew what the right choice was. And I knew what the wrong choice was. But I didn't see the repercussions it could have. And it has had them. And generally, me and the other young people I've seen, you know when you're going to do something reprehensible that could have, you know, you feel that you're in a critical moment in your life or what you want to do, you just have to stop at that moment.

It's because teenagers, having cool or being cool is so important, but who risks it? I know it's hard to understand sometimes when you're a teenager. It's so important, yes, it's important in your head, but if your life, you're 15, how do you... You said you're 51, you would have been through all of this for everyone to know. I see the punch in the face in prison,

because people, people call each other for what they think. Exactly, and it's people that... Listen, I would see this guy in the streets, I wouldn't even recognize him, I didn't know him. And the other guys who were there, I probably wouldn't see them either. So that's why I say it's all illusory, it's all something we put in our heads.

And it's not reality. Reality is you. Reality is your family. Focus on it, focus on the people who really love you for good reasons and who will always love you. The others, yes, they're friends and you have the feeling that it's a strong feeling when you're a teenager. Friends are important. How many friends do you still have when you're a teenager? Very few. Very few. There are a few. They can have one or two. And what about your parents? Exactly.

You know, the pain with them tattooing Joe. They have families, I have mine, we don't have the time. But when you were that old, it was tough. It was like... I spent more time than my kids, I spent it at work or at work, whatever. And that's it, choose your friends, and your best friends in life, it's going to be your family. Everyone you knew in the street, whether it was gang members, people who made traffic, all that. You know how many people have paid for houses and live in luxury and abundance of all this? Luxury and abundance, not only those I know who have managed to have a good life and have goods like that, you say, it's people who have retired, you know, who have had the

chance to go out and they say fuck this life. They went to training, they worked, they were educated. And today they have houses and they are living in the city. And those who didn't do that, who didn't go to school, who didn't change their lives, who stayed in there saying, I'm going to be a woodsy. They are dead or they are in prison or they are cracked in the city, they do hard drugs, some of them I know that fell in there. There's no... Because pressing on a trigger, on the neck,

it can be easy. But three, four years later, sometimes it's images that come back to you and come back to your head. And sometimes the only way to heal yourself is that you're going to fall into drugs and at the end of the line. Yeah, and everyone is different, you know, everyone will handle it differently, but... First, the weapons, it never handle it differently, but first of all, weapons never lead to anything good.

What good can come out of it? It's just having it on you, it's a potential for violence because it's a verbal altercation that can turn into a murder. Because you're armed. And just the feeling of being armed, it gives you a feeling of... of power. And unreal. Because yes, it makes you so powerful, but it makes you dangerous for others, it makes you dangerous for yourself. Because having it on yourself,

maybe you won't use it violently, but you'll maybe get arrested with it, you'll end up in prison, and what's going to happen? That's another story. I mean, there's nothing good that can happen. You know, the weapons, I mean, unless you go hunting... A good steak of goat. That's what it's for. Exactly.

A good steak of goat. There's a good structure in there, and not everyone can do it, but apart from that, to be stuck in the street with weapons, there's nothing good that's going to come out of that. Ziad, I'm going to say thank you very much. Thank you for the platform. Well, a pleasure. And good luck, man. I know it's not easy. I know that. There's nothing easy in life. You go from afar, and there are still jams, there are still sticks in your wheels.

But man, it's been almost two hours since we've been talking together, and... That's another thing, sorry, I'm going to... Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Bring the microphone closer, just so we can hear you well. If in life you're looking for ease, you'll never be anywhere. Everything comes with effort, you know? And you have to put effort into something constructive. But if you're looking for easy things, easy money, easy women, it doesn't exist, it's just illusory. So, ease doesn't exist in life. You have to work hard, you have to put in effort.

In the basement. In the basement, of course. Thank you. Thank you, man. You you