Au Parloir - Épisode #95 - Giovanni

Starting point is 00:00:00 Suspense fans, get ready. The third installment of the original, audible and well-received series has arrived. Oracle III, Murder at the Grand View. After the success of the first two titles, Agent Nate Russo is back for a new investigation, as mysterious as addictive. An isolated island, a hotel, an unexplained death and a persistent doubt. Is it an accident or a murder? With the solo performance With Patrick Labé's solo performance,

Starting point is 00:00:25 which delivers an intense, captivating and acclaimed narration by the fans. Don't let your fears take over. Available now on audible.ca, in French and English. Listen to Oracle III, Murder at the Grand View, wherever you are, whenever you want. Hi everyone, welcome to a new episode of the Podcast. Grandview, wherever you are, where you have your name at the end of the credits. And if you listen to it during the first six weeks on Patreon, you listen to it in video, well, there is no YouTube ad during the podcast. cedricbergeron.com, which is my website where you have access to all the links for my social networks, also for the YouTube page.

Starting point is 00:01:22 The clothes to talk about, we have T-shirts, hoodies if you're ever interested. And you also have all the information about my career, the details, the sale of tickets, all that. All the links are on this site. Today we received Giovanni Treble. After that, our family who don't celebrate together. It's a bit colorful and that's what we got, a colorful man. It's a bit colorful, and that's what we got. A colorful man. His young part, first sentence, he goes to therapy to save time, and finally he goes to therapy,

Starting point is 00:01:52 he flies a char, he goes to the United States, I say he because there are two in there. A little horse in the United States who ends up with a suicide. Condemned to 10 years of memory in Indiana, if I'm not mistaken. So he's sentenced to 10 years. He met Mike Tyson while he was in prison, Axel Rose, singer from Guns N' Roses, who comes from that corner and all that.

Starting point is 00:02:17 But not a calm sentence. 10 years in prison. He came back here and finished his first shift he had been holding before he moved. He rebuilt himself, a lot happened. He had another sentence in 2009. Even my sound text when he left, he said, it's a film, the life of this guy is a film.

Starting point is 00:02:43 I think there are layers, I think we could have Even my sound text when he left said, it's a movie. The life of this guy is a movie. I think there are layers. I think we could have done a 10-hour podcast. Honestly, it's a really interesting podcast, really entertaining. Once again, I repeat myself, I don't necessarily endorse gestures, ideologies, the terms used by my guests,

Starting point is 00:03:01 but I am a person who takes the freedom of expression. I like brave people who speak with their hearts. Welcome to the parlour. Today's episode is, among other things, a presentation of the new energy drinks Spark. Do you want to stay focused, see the sound, hear the colors? But stay focused? Well, Spark is the solution. In fact, it's a revolution in the field of brews

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Starting point is 00:03:40 It's a Quebec product made at home, by the people of home, for the people of home. Available in all health shops throughout Quebec, at shopsante.ca or at sparkenergydrink.com. Mr. Giovanni Treble. We were talking about your name because we found it so... You say I love my name, but you're good at loving it. And then we asked you if you had any origins from the Italian family. It's like no, your mother found it beautiful.

Starting point is 00:04:18 A real Treble. Giovanni. Giovanni. I love that. Yes. First, thank you for being here. Diobani. Diobani. I love that. Yes. First of all, thank you for being here. You're welcome. It was a pleasure.

Starting point is 00:04:28 Listen, I was talking to my collaborator. Yes. And she, we have an Excel file together, which she talks to a lot of people because a lot of people write to me to do the podcast. She puts notes and she puts stars. Yes, she did. A star, two stars. She told me, it was five stars.

Starting point is 00:04:44 And it wasn't long since there were five stars next to your name and she put stars. Yeah, she put stars. A star, two stars. It wasn't long ago that she had five stars next to your name and she called you. And it's rare that I shoot two episodes back-to-back. And then it gave you, I shot one a while ago and then it gave you. And she said, no, no, he has to come. You don't want to lose him. If he changes his mind, it's like, he has to come. So you're there. We shoot two back-to-back because she said, you have to talk.

Starting point is 00:05:03 And listen, I just summed it up, I did, I did, hop, you got there, I was eating, you started talking to me, no, no, shut up, look at the podcast. Yeah, and it's instantaneous, it comes out like that, like that. And I know you're listening to the podcast too, so thank you for that first. Well, yeah, it's a pleasure.

Starting point is 00:05:19 So you know how it starts, I start from the beginning, childhood, talking about the North Coast, so it's... Yes, well, I was raised by my grandparents from the beginning, l'enfance, de parler de la Courneau. Oui. Ben moi j'ai été élevé par mes grands-parents paternels de l'âge de six mois à 14 ans. Pour? Je te dirais, ben mon père était alcoolique dans le temps. En plus, il était comme chancelant un peu sa vie avec ses frères, mon ongé était d'un missile. Mon père, il était à l'impop, a lot of family, a lot of friends. For those who are the gangsters of the old age.

Starting point is 00:05:52 Yes, that's it. My father was in Charlevalais. All the old guys, I know them all. All the most recent ones, less. But I was raised by my paternal grandparents. It was a simpler, more stable environment for a kid, with your grandparents, than with your parents. Yes, yes. Even though they didn't stay far away as such. But that's it. I grew up with my grandparents. I had everything.

Starting point is 00:06:20 I was a little kid. I was a little kid. I was always at school. Everything was always going to school, everything was fine. Until I went to high school, my first year in high school, I met little girls, but I came from a small village, so we went out into town. So I met little girls, but I made two fleets that were declared by the police. They came to get me at Godbout, I was at Pointe-le-Belle. You had to spend nights with the kids. Yes, but my grandmother didn't know.

Starting point is 00:06:52 But it ended up that the DPJ, I was placed in the reception center. They took me from my grandparents, saying to my grandmother that she was no longer fit to raise children. I'll tell you, from there, I took it pretty hard. enfants. Là, je te dirais, à partir de là, je l'ai pris quand même assez dur parce que ma grand-mère, c'est pas moi, c'était ma mère. Ça fait que c'est là que j'ai viré un peu révolté. Ça fait que mes parents ont déménagé de Bécquemont à Montréal. Ça fait qu'ils m'ont changé de centre d'accueil de Bécquemont jusqu'à Dominique Savio les années 80, 85, je pense.

Starting point is 00:07:22 84, 85. Et puis, c'est ça, j' I did two years with Dominique Savio. In the back, 14, 18 years old. But was it just for fun? No, no, no. But I did some daily, some interviews. I saw that they had the VOL. That's it, you're going fast. You don't lock a young man in a reception center because he wants to spend the night with his blonde. No.

Starting point is 00:07:45 Because you're skipping a couple of days. You were already... you had already become a jerk. Yes, yes. I would say that it had really upset me. So I was a little against society. I wanted everyone to see it. I didn't want to know anything. I still have my image in my head when they sont venus me chercher chez mes grands-parents. Ma grand-mère qui pleurait dans le chaussis, puis moi qui étais à l'arrière du véhicule,

Starting point is 00:08:10 puis qu'elle pouvait pas rien faire. J'en allais à l'aéroport, je prenais l'avion jusqu'à Montréal, j'en ai rejoint ma famille, started living with my parents, really getting to know alcoholism. My father was violent. I didn't know that until I really lived with my father. So basically, your grandmother wasn't ready to raise a child, so we're going to put you with a guy who lives with her.

Starting point is 00:08:42 She had 13, for example. She had 13. No, no, no. I mean, we're going to place you with a guy who lives... She had 13, for example. She had 13. No, no, no. I mean, we're going to place you with a guy who's alcoholic, a little violent, who has a connection with organized crime. There's no problem with that. Well, there was no problem with that. There was my little brother, too, who was in the shelter center. He's younger than me. Well, we kind of followed each other. But you know, it's going to happen in Montreal, a big city, a small town, a big city.

Starting point is 00:09:05 That's it, my year, the reception center, I was going out, yes. My year, I had a one-year absence where I didn't go. I made the neighborhood, my San Antoine, but I always came back to crime. At age, I was 17. But just, you know, how does it happen, you it happen to study with your parents, your father? I mean, he encourages you, you don't encourage him, he's just... No, but the first time I saw my father being violent with my mother, I got caught with my father.

Starting point is 00:09:38 I went in, we went to the dining room. For me, it wasn't... Oh, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. I didn't know a food court. For me, it was not... Oh, no, no. No, no, no. I didn't know that as such. You had never seen that with your grandparents? That's it. My father, I knew from the beginning that I was a child who didn't want to. So I always try to have answers.

Starting point is 00:10:01 Even today, he died and I still don't have an answer to my questions. So basically, you were taken from your grandparents. When you're not in the family, you're at your parents' house, I'm asking you in advance. So that's where you sleep, but there's no structure, there's nothing. Not at all, not at all. You leave it to yourself. Yes. Yes. So my mother had a concert where I laughed, but not about that.

Starting point is 00:10:22 My father, my father was in hell. My father had a heart attack, he was laughed, but not because of that. My father was in hell. He had a heart attack, he was sick, and we all lived through it. You lived through it with your own means of... Yes, certainly. So that's why you're still painting in the cream. Yes, but I would say that at the age of 17, I had the discomfort of touching the crack at Freebase in the 80s. It was less of a problem than it is today. It started.

Starting point is 00:10:51 It was fatal. The first step was fatal. I was on it for nine months. At 17? At 17. Nine months, I did everything for that drug. I qualified for it every night. There were 9-1, 24-24 shows. You saw me in it almost every week.

Starting point is 00:11:20 Searching for it, searching for it. At one point, he even called me the thief of the pink cap. I saw bank robberies. I saw just with the same cap, the same trick, the same work process. You mean the modus operandi? Yes, yes, that's it. And in time, there was no money. You went up on the counter, bang bang, and we did what? It was done live. bang bang, pis on faisait le coffre, ça se faisait là, live pis... Fait que c'était drogue là, m'emporter à être un des pires croissants aussi.

Starting point is 00:11:50 Pas pu avoir fait confiance en moi, ou pas. Fait que tu le faisais pour l'argent, mais pas pour vivre, tu le faisais pour l'adopte. Carrément. Ben Christ, je veux dire, tu fais une banque là, Christ, tu sors pas de getting out of there with 20 bucks for a dose. No, but I would tell you that it won't last long, whether it's 25, 35,000, it's not long, man. Well, he's paying the debt to everyone. Well, yeah, and the place where you consume, well, yeah, you pay, and then it's beautiful.

Starting point is 00:12:16 Consume, consume, consume, consume. Damn, there's no more. But all that you bought that you maybe scraped a little. Well, where's that? It goes back to the pot, you know. Yeah, that's it. You bought a world, you were a little bit worn out. And then it goes back on the cover. You bought a mountain, you bought a chain, you bought nice clothes. You pop, you pop. Oh, Christ, I'm going to put my chain back on. I'm going to turn it around and make a cut. Yes, certainly.

Starting point is 00:12:35 So basically, at the end of the line... You must have had some... You must have had some flies around you that want to come and scratch everything you have when you're in the closet. Not really, because I was always in the same place of consumption, so it was always the same. But it was consumption that brought me to a period in my life where it brought me to therapy. Did they end up catching the thief with the pink hat? dans une thérapie. Mais est-ce qu'ils ont fini par pogner le voleur avec Ascatros? Ben oui. C'est moi. Je suis dans le centre opérationnel de Centreville.

Starting point is 00:13:10 J'ai mon avocate qui m'appelle pis qui me dit, «Hey, j'ai de te voir à TV encore.» Pendant que t'étais en... Ben oui! Ben oui, parce que moi j'attendais un retour d'appel parce que pour lui dire que je venais me faire arrêter, Yes, because I was waiting for her call back because to tell her I was going to get arrested, she called me to tell me she was going to see me on TV, live, on Voile à Mermé. But it's all... I never liked that. Never. I was an extreme adrenaline. But you don't usually start doing 17 because you like it when it heats up, you like it, that's for sure.

Starting point is 00:13:50 Yes, but I was really dangerous for myself, I was really dangerous for the others. There was nothing to my test. I did everything, everything, everything that was in my power to be able to procure that drug. Puff was number one on the top. It was hell, my people. The first puff was fatal. In a month, I was in the hospital, I saw a bruise, I heard robots, I was walking in the dark.

Starting point is 00:14:14 The skin on my bones, 125 pounds. The term crackhead, it stuck very well. The image that we are making of cracker, that's what you've become. I told you, I stole everyone. My mother, my brother, my beautiful mother, my wife. I stole everyone. I told you, today, how I see it, I was one of the first croissants you'll see.

Starting point is 00:14:39 If I had the chance, I would have stolen someone. You were 17 or 18? Yes, I was 17. You're a child. Yes, my husband. Yes, my husband. So my consumption brought me to therapy. In prison too? Yes, prison first.

Starting point is 00:14:55 Yes, I asked for therapy to save time. Not because you wanted to get out? Not at all, because that's the reason I got arrested. Arrested, that's not because you wanted to quit? Not at all, because that's the reason I stopped. You stopped, it's not because you wanted to. Even that, there's no reality check at that moment. The second charge won't do it. At that moment, I mean. Yes, that's for sure.

Starting point is 00:15:18 We'll send a therapist, we'll save time. To go faster? To get back to life. But I did Melaric in 1990-1991. That's not the first time I hear that. Melaric, in time, was a big confrontation therapy. It was knee to knee, we would lean on each other, and we would check each other out every time. The army.

Starting point is 00:15:38 It was a real therapy. And since then, I've been doing it. I've been doing it would check every time. The army? It was really a therapy. And since then, since I did my therapy, my LARIC, I've never touched that again in my life. Since 1991, that's not true. Impressive. It's crazy, huh?

Starting point is 00:16:00 It's impressive because if I fell so young, so fast, and I'm able to get out of it after one, it's all in your honor, but I know so many guys who did 10, 12, 20. Yes, but I decided to go into therapy. But what makes a guy who goes into it with the idea, I'm going to go into therapy and get out as quickly as possible, to get as many fast as possible. A guy who is in a rebellion against the system. How did you get hooked?

Starting point is 00:16:33 Which is a good thing, but what happened? Where is the trigger? I'll tell you my potential. I'm a person who, when he takes on something, I like to bring it to the fore. I knew that even during my consumption, I didn't like who I was, I didn't like what I was doing. I always put myself at risk in things. That drug brought me to do a lot of crimes that I would never have done in my life.

Starting point is 00:17:03 But you liked the puff more than you hated yourself? The poof loved me more. She was the one controlling me. It's not me who was controlling. The second I thought about it, it was Stephanie. It was a fact. It was my wife that I had on Earth. She came to see me.

Starting point is 00:17:23 I hid between the two or three cushions. It was obvious, you went in there, you saw someone who was... No, I was hiding there, man. Oh, no, don't go, don't go, don't hit me. I was saying to myself, my wife in that time, she lived a lot. My children went through in third, in 4th grade. I neglected them. Wait a minute, Chris, you told me you were 10. Wow, wait a minute.

Starting point is 00:17:50 I had my first boy when I was 17. We were 16. When I think about it... You said my children. Chris, you're... Yeah, because... Your first child, okay. Yes, because I was pregnant. But it's Because there were other things that happened after that. Yes, of course. Life doesn't stop.

Starting point is 00:18:07 There are so many... It's a nice story, but you're not here because you consumed from 17 to 17 and a half years. Not at all. That's it, things happened. But this period, wait a minute, Christ, I'm sorry, I'll bring you back. You had your first kid at 16. Me at 17, my mother was 16. You were 17.

Starting point is 00:18:21 You had already started or were you going Me at 17, my wife at 16. Yes. Did you already start or did you start to puf when you had him? It's not bad. She was pregnant with my son. He was there, my son. So the first months of his life, you're not there? No.

Starting point is 00:18:42 No. I don't even know. Today I have... Memory has been affected quite a bit, but today I have a lot of flashes that I still remember. But there are others that I don't remember. In such and such a period, I don't remember anything.

Starting point is 00:19:00 So therapy works? Therapy works. You could have left, become a citizen, build a life. I would never be a citizen, my friend. I don't like the word citizen. We'll see. But that's it. So therapy, yes, it helped me. It gave me a lot of tools to not consume again. But that's it. I was going to get... that was a six-month therapy. Confrontation.

Starting point is 00:19:35 Not consuming crack or not consuming... No. I'm going to die with my joint. Okay. I'll go home in the evening and and I'd go get my little joint. That's correct. I was asking you... It can happen sometimes. But therapy fell into other things later on. That's what I was asking you.

Starting point is 00:19:56 No, nothing that brought you that far. No, not at all. So, my consumption, therapy, therapy, I took a week ticket to change in feeling. It was in my fifth month of therapy. Because he said that I was there to save time, and that I was there between furniture and painting. You didn't take it. You were following the lines because you wanted to follow the lines. You weren't emotionally involved. To be honest, to be honest with myself, to be honest with Val,

Starting point is 00:20:28 therapy too. So I met my partner in crime, he did it with me, Zota, in therapy. He was there in prison. And we didn't get a chance. I said fuck off, we're not going to put me in prison. And we didn't get a chance. I said, fuck off, we're not going to jail. So we got out of there. And when...

Starting point is 00:20:52 Melaric was in Carrillon. Near the fall. And... Steph came from Notre-Dame-du-Lot. He came from the Quingatino Hall. So we left there in the night. We left, we went back to our sector. d'un coin de gatineau, et puis... Fait qu'on est parti de là en... dans la nuit. On est parti, on s'est rendu dans son secteur à lui. Moi, t'es 150, fait que t'es déjà...

Starting point is 00:21:13 Ben oui, c'est ça, c'est ça. Fait que... En dedans de deux jours, on a volé un char. On a volé une masse de 3, 23. Puis en plus de tout ça, c'était un char d'un policier, parce qu'il y avait le that, it was a police car, because there was the police car, the police car, and... So we were walking around, when we left, therapy, we tried to cross the American lines by the glue. We didn't pass.

Starting point is 00:21:52 So we went around by Niagara Falls. My father and my father-in-law have been with Haute Parloir for a long time. And I keep them because I like human people. I say that at every beginning of podcasts. And a life insurance chose de super important pour pas laisser les gens que t'aimes dans le besoin quand toi tu seras plus là. Mais malheureusement, si t'as des antécédents médicaux,

Starting point is 00:22:13 si t'es un peu trop âgé, si t'as un dossier criminel, l'assurance vie, est-ce que c'est facile à avoir? Pas toujours. Comparé ma prime, eux autres, c'est aucun cas refusé. Ils vont prendre ton dossier, ils vont parler comme ce que t'es, They're not going to refuse. They're going to take your file, they're going to talk to you like you are a human being. They're going to take you into consideration, they're going to listen to you, they're going to find you the company that will accept to give you a life insurance. They've been with me for a long time and I keep them because I have a lot of people

Starting point is 00:22:38 who have passed by them and who gave me positive feedback. Because it's humans who treat people not like customers, but like humans. Contact, compare my print. Chris, in two days you left, you went to Get Snow. Yes, well, we left, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He must have left in the bar in front of the Coliseum. Yes, but because he is the captain.

Starting point is 00:23:02 Oh, but it was a reflex to go there. Exactly, exactly. Because in addition to. Oh, but it was a reflex to go there. Exactly. Because in addition to the glue, when we left the glue, we went to... You went to Gatineau with the car stolen, but you didn't keep it to go up there. No, no. It was still burning. You had balls, man. That's it, we stole cars at Gatineau. Okay, you stole cars. I thought you went up there with the car.

Starting point is 00:23:24 No, no, no. Someone came to pick us up. OK, OK, OK. Excuse me. We walked along the side of the road. The little road was long, but we did it. So we went two days, until we got some money. After that, we stole the Mazda 323. So that's what you went with to not get caught. Yes.

Starting point is 00:23:48 So your goal was to cross the lines with a stolen car. I get that. Well, anyway, you cross the lines. I didn't speak English. He's the only one who speaks English. I'm like, fuck you, fuck off. The setup is brilliant, isn't it? We're two guys, we saved each other, we have a stolen car.

Starting point is 00:24:04 Don't speak too much English, we'll try to go back to the States. So we tried to go through the school. We didn't pass a barrier, Canada passed a barrier. So we tried, we did all the accounting. We went through Niagara Falls, Buffalo. We went through the Canadian side, the American side. They asked us for our identity papers, we didn't have them. We didn't have the vehicle license plate.

Starting point is 00:24:29 So they came to the back of the car, they had a little yellow pad. And they marked it with no ID, must return to Canada. So they gave us that, they said, go to the office, because they said, next to the customs, there was a federal office. So they said, go check your identity, but after that, we had to go back to Canada. But when you park, it gives you a way out. So we waited for them to be busy with another vehicle,

Starting point is 00:24:59 and yeah, we came back three times, otherwise, because of these little sign that was misguided. Three times that we came back, otherwise, we were in big trouble. So we left. We went all the way to the west coast of the United States, in a week. We went all the way to the west coast of the United States. We went to Key West, Key Waller Beach, Orlando. But... It takes money. You have to travel, you have to walk.

Starting point is 00:25:33 You didn't finish your therapy, you didn't want to consume. What was the trip to the United States? To save time. To save time. Yes, to save time. We're young. What was the sentence hanging on your nose? Uh... I was thinking about my cousin. He was 15 months old at the time.

Starting point is 00:25:54 No, I understand. Someone who was in prison. We saved time. We went crazy. We went on an adventure. We went to the United States. When we were young, we saw it big. We went on an adventure. We went to the United States. When we're young, we see it big, grandiose, we go on an adventure. But Chris, what do you live off of? How do you eat? We stopped in truck stops.

Starting point is 00:26:14 My chum was a trucker. To say that we went to such a place. We were robbed our identity papers. We went to Canada. You know, we stopped in truck stops. We were in the middle of the road. We were in the middle of the road. We had to steal our identity papers, we had to go back to Canada. They gave us money. They said, they gave us money. We stopped at the truck stops.

Starting point is 00:26:30 They gave us money, man. That's how we kept going down. And then, coming back from Clearwater Beach, we went through, we didn't have a single push, it was a big deal. He worked in the circus. And you first... With the Mazda 320. We had a first-time worker at Fort Lauderdale. He worked in a circus. And you were the first?

Starting point is 00:26:46 With the Mazda 323. We still had the Mazda 323. Oh, and no paperwork. No, but over there anyway, he taps the plate, it's not marked that it's a stolen vehicle. Well no, well no. So we had a first-time worker, he worked in a circus. Okay, I'm not English.

Starting point is 00:27:04 It's always my chum who's talking to everyone. So we were in prison, in therapy, and we didn't have a woman. So we told the guy, well, if you're taking me to Indiana, introduce me to some girls. He said, OK. We were going to go to the delt, to the end of the country, in ael, in the South of Indiana, in Harrison County. We took him there, his wife was there. He wasn't even there for a week. He was still trying to steal. His family, Julie, it's Julie and Clifford, the family. And Laina was his blonde, the guy who worked in the circus.

Starting point is 00:27:50 The family loved us so much. Laina, okay, that's her bedroom. Oh, he left. I got up with her. I didn't even speak English, it's gross. I said, I had fun. I had fun. But that's it.

Starting point is 00:28:05 I worked for a doctor in cultivation, plantation, all over. We met people in the small village of Piscine. Did you start to improve your English by the time you were in immersion? Because we were one month between the moment when we left therapy and the moment we got arrested in Indiana.

Starting point is 00:28:28 Okay, okay, okay. Not in my head, if I saw that, like... No, no, no, no. Eight months, nine months. Okay, it's one month. One month only. Okay. So, that's it, we were...

Starting point is 00:28:36 I worked for a doctor, knowing the world. At the back of a tractor with little chairs, put some boots in her hands and plant them on her own. So we had five dollars, the Americans, under the table to plant some In the United States, there are a lot of church parties. Church parties? Yes, you know, there are little churches. It's not the priests, it's the pastors. The pastors, they're married, they have children, etc. There was one here not long ago, actually.

Starting point is 00:29:17 Okay. So one evening, me and my room, we meet a couple over there. They're still there. Not really me, because I don't talk. Moi pis mon chambre, on rencontre un couple là-bas. Il était encore là. Pas moi vraiment parce que je parle pas. Je suis plus là pour voir ou rencontrer du monde. Fait que, on a besoin d'argent. Fait que le gars demande à mon chambre, il dit, j'aurais besoin d'une TV pis une vis, c'est hard. On donne les 175 piastres pour. Ok.

Starting point is 00:29:44 Fait qu'il me dit, j'ai une place jusqu'à ce que tu peux aller. And they gave us 175 piastres. Okay. So he said, I have a place until you can go. I said, in the woods, you can go in there and bring our stuff. So he gave us an address. The next morning, we went to the address. It was a mobile car, but made on the side, with a big shed in the back, a big barn. You could hear a dog barking in the barn. It rang.

Starting point is 00:30:15 It didn't ring. It rang again. Nobody came in. We tied a rope after. It was a it's a small aluminum door that you open, and a normal door at the back. We hung the rope after the door, after the 323 shock, we pulled the door. It stays the same. There's the other door, we open the other door, 875, it's a 12-rounder. We took it out. We took out the stock in the vehicle.

Starting point is 00:31:00 The guy was next to it, after he had a 3-23 size, because you have to make room, because my chum came with the sound system. So I just put the TV in the vehicle. I went out. My husband came with the sound system. I saw a rifle coming out from behind. He was about to turn to my room. I have the 12 that is there after my Mazda 323.

Starting point is 00:31:27 I don't even know how I did it. I took the rifle, I took the 12 and I shot. I shot twice. We took off from there. We don't even stop. We took off from there.en va à Mockport où c'est que le gars qui nous avait demandé une TV, une vidéo pour 175 piastres, d'aller emporter le matériel qu'on avait volé. Puis lui, on était supposé d'aller le rejoindre à Corridor, à la banque à Corridor pour

Starting point is 00:32:01 se faire payer. the We drive, there's a ghost car that's parked on the side, and it comes behind us. We drive the speed, and in two or three minutes, there's a police car coming behind us. It hit us in the face. We just had time to stop the car. Montchum. On a just le temps d'arrêter le véhicule. Montchum qui était déjà, il l'avait déjà sorti par le charlier. Pis tu sais pis il crie au policier, don't shoot him, don't shoot him, he don't speak English. Moi, pas de panglais là. Il faisait gros soleil. J'avais de la misère à voir dans le véhicule parce qu'il y avait des policiers qui tranquaient sous moi. À la resta-tation de la Québécoise, c'était un attachement saint ça. Oub ça I had a lot of trouble in the vehicle because there were police officers who were on my side.

Starting point is 00:33:08 At the Quebec police station, they were wearing a belt. I was out of the car too. So it stays the same. They arrest us. They take us to the Harrison County Sheriff's Department. They make us our identities and they told us they were stopping us. First of all, they told us we were not introduced by infraction. Why all this? Because we had received a call from a person saying that there were two Quebecers in a stolen vehicle, Mazda 323 with the plate number,

Starting point is 00:33:45 and that we had been in such a place, and that we were going to such a place. Only the person who asked for it knew that. So after it was checked, that's when they came back, we were charged with homicide, murder in the second degree. They tried to put the second primeval shot.

Starting point is 00:34:07 The guy, I was 18 years old, I faced 60 to 50 prisoners. That's when you told us you were shot twice. They tried to put the second primeval shot, exactly. So we understand that, in the end, when you were flying, it was the owner who was defending his property. Well, yes. And you lit it up without thinking. I would say, even today, I think,

Starting point is 00:34:36 I'm not sure if I was faster than him, because the two armed men, I think, it's instinctive. Except that he was right to defend himself. I don't understand. I'm not putting you there. You did your thing. We're talking. It's just that I'm putting myself there. Cédric, in Indiana, there's a black man who says that if you commit a crime, between 8 p.mpm and 8am,

Starting point is 00:35:06 you'll be charged with a double sentence because you're subject to commit a violent act. Because you're more likely to have someone at home between 8pm and 8am than 8am and 8pm. He's like, you know, what is it? There's logic, not logic, but I understand. Anyway, they were like that. Uh... What time was it? I would say 9 or 11, we were happy in the morning.

Starting point is 00:35:37 But you were past 8. Yeah, we were past 8. So you were like, you know, right on time. It's the same in the morning. But you were there at 8. Yes, we were there at 8. So you were there at the right time. Without even knowing it. Yes, exactly.

Starting point is 00:35:53 Without even knowing it. Because we knew it afterwards at the court. But, as I told you, I faced 65 prison sentences. They arrived with a plea bargain, like the second time, look, they didn't know how to prove it because we were on the run, we were in a lake of violent violence. It fell into the water.

Starting point is 00:36:16 They came to us with a plea bargain of 10 years, promissory and involuntary, that we took right away. Both? Well, yes, both. No, no, but I mean, he didn't shoot, he was... I'm a volunteer. We both took it. Both? Yes, both. No, I mean, he didn't pull it. No, both.

Starting point is 00:36:32 He didn't try to put it on your back. No, it's still today. He's my best friend. We still meet each other today. But it's a necessity. When you think about it, the irony of the thing is that you go to therapy and save time, you save yourself from therapy because you're afraid of being re-entered.

Starting point is 00:36:52 To end with a sentence of 10 years in the States. In addition to all that, I don't speak English, I'm a translator at the class, a French teacher who had a Purdue University in Indiana. I had the difficulty to understand myself even if I spoke French. I had a French teacher who had a Purdue University in Indiana. I had trouble understanding myself, even if I spoke French.

Starting point is 00:37:08 So I had another teacher, he was at the secondary school in Corridor. Kevin, I will remember him all the time, very nice. He came to write, he came to visit me so that I could write letters in English to Judy and Clifford, the family, and where we were. During that time, I learned a little. We're like in the middle of nowhere in time. My little county jail is a small village on the horizon. When we were in Niger, it was a small village, a little bit of a corridor, so the police station was the

Starting point is 00:37:47 counter station. I was like Rivière des Prairies when you were waiting for the police. But I wasn't with my husband. My husband was elsewhere. But he was always in front of everyone. He was talking about you. He was looking at you. When you don't understand, I don't understand. I don't understand. When you don't understand, you don't understand.

Starting point is 00:38:06 You get into the mode of trying to understand, but more like a little survival mode. A paranoid mode, you feel like everyone is talking about you all the time. Yes, but you sleep badly, you have your eyes on the back of your head, you're not allowed to steal your stuff. You don't really know the environment. You don't have a place to go because you're in a county jail. But with time, the months, there was a writer over there who wanted to write a book about our lives, our arrest. It wasn't accepted. Once we got our sentence, we transferred to Indiana Reception Center, an IYC,

Starting point is 00:39:05 which was Mike Tyson. Mike, we caught our bit practically at the same time. He was released in 1996, I was with him. I met Don King in a visiting room while I was in front of a immigration judge in his old penitentiary. My chum spent a year an et demi avec Mike. C'est ça moi je peux pas dire que j'ai fait du temps avec Mike, j'ai rencontré Mike dans le pénitentiel. C'est ça que j'ai rencontré

Starting point is 00:39:37 Duncan aussi. C'est là que j'ai... on se parle, je suis attaché de la tête aux pieds enchaîné dans la salle de visite parce que je veux l'immigration, j'ai ça à côté. I was attached to the room, chained in the living room, because there was a immigration judge, a judge on the side. People looked at you in a very strange way, you were in a big crisis, what time do you have to be locked up?

Starting point is 00:39:56 I said with his little voice, Hey! There's a voice of his daughter! Oh, he made that voice, he blessed her! Well, he's the one who paid for the gym, at the reception in Wall Street. He paid 35,000 dollars. He paid the gym for the inmates. For the inmates? Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:14 So, me and my partner, we moved to Indiana State Farm. We were classified as medium security. Indiana State Farm. OK, on été classé à la sécurité médium. Ça, c'est genre boot camp. Des grands dortoirs, 120 détenus d'un bord, 120 détenus de l'autre. Deux étages, quatre côtés. Ça fait que ça en fait des détenus. Mais c'est à air ouvert, là, c'est des grands dortoirs. Là, j'ai été 19 mois.

Starting point is 00:40:41 OK, 19 mois. Dans ces 19 mois-là, j'ai rentré de la dope pour un gars que j'ai connu là. Pourquoi j'ai rentré cette dope-là? Il n'y avait pas de moyen pour moi d'envoyer des photos à ma famille. Le seul moyen où on peut prendre des photos, c'est quand un de tes visiteurs vient te visiter, il ajoute des biens à la salle de visite. C'est des The only way to take pictures is when one of your visitors comes to visit you, and she buys tickets to the hall of fame. Because it's pictures with polaroids. So basically, it's your visitor who pays for your pictures.

Starting point is 00:41:15 From there, well... A lot of American officials in the time, they wrote gay people. What? Gay people. Gay people. Oh, gay, okay. We wrote gay people. Gay magazines. It was really popular at the time.

Starting point is 00:41:35 You tell them what they want to hear. They say, there's a little cash, a black dog. But every little way to make money, especially me, who comes from another country, and I don't have a TV, I don't have a phone. Nobody drops you off in the canteen if you don't say how it works. Not really. But nobody wrote to us. We had a little 500-euro bill. We had a gold chain and a gold cross. That helped me a lot.

Starting point is 00:42:12 How is it for a Quebecer who, I guess, English has finally entered the... It took me 18 months to read, speak and write. Now that I'm studying nuclear radiology, I have a certificate of professional studies in nuclear radiology. Ça m'a pris 18 mois. Lire, parler, écrire. C'est la marnere que j'ai étudié en radiologie nucléaire. J'ai un certificat d'études professionnelles en radiologie nucléaire. Que t'as eu aux études. Que j'ai suivi en prison. Fait que l'anglais finalement, mais au début, tu sais,

Starting point is 00:42:36 justement t'as dit cette prison-là, t'as fait 19 mois, puis ça t'a pris 18 mois à prendre. Oui. Fait que, mais ça se passe comment pour un jeune homme? Puis tu sais, je'm looking at you today, you're not going to be very, very big at 18. At 19? No, because I'm getting bigger. I'm going up to 208 pounds. Okay. A little muscle ball.

Starting point is 00:42:56 Because, you know, I'm looking at you today, you're not someone very massive. So, you know, you're just going in, you're 18 in an American prison, you don't speak the language, you're not big, you don't... You know, you've known the provincial a little in Quebec. I've been there for two weeks. I've been there for two weeks. In fact, my first 100 years, what I had, was in my 10th year. So, how do you feel about that? How do you feel about it? How does it happen? I would tell you...

Starting point is 00:43:21 Do we try intimidation? Not at all. How do you do it? Do we try to intimidate each other? Not at all. I would say that the partnership we had, Stephane was still quite big. He's 200 kilos. He's not big either, but he's got a body. He's able to fight. He takes my defense too. You were in the same... you were together, so you did your time together? Yes, until he got stuck in the hole for a year.

Starting point is 00:43:48 Then he left after 9 months for good driving, and I was the one who got home for 90 days. When I left, he was transferred to NYC, Indiana Youth Center, where Mike and I were transferred to Indiana State Prison. Super maximum. Why? Why? I transferred to Indiana State Prison. Super maximum. Why? Why? You didn't transfer to Supermax for nothing?

Starting point is 00:44:12 Well, my security code, I went in for a guy one morning. That's 14 days after I went in for him. Il met une fille sur ma liste de visite. Comme je t'ai dit, c'est mon visiteur pour avoir des photos. Fait que, qu'est-ce que je sais pas, que je savais pas, c'est que lui, il s'avait fait de pognier deux ans auparavant avec sa fille-là. Dans le même pays, une temps, c'est pour avoir rentré de l'ado. Elle a fait sa poule, dans le fond. In the same country, we were like, we're going to go back to the back. She was in the back, basically. It was like that.

Starting point is 00:44:49 Fourteen days later, he woke me up in the morning. I tried, by the Canadian American Law, to transfer criminals to come and do my American time in my Canadian territory, by my consulate general. Un matin, il me vient de me réveiller. Il dit, «Tremblez, 92, 33, 02. » Je dis, «Oui. » Il dit, «Pas que tes chutes de Canada viennent te chercher. » Okay?

Starting point is 00:45:15 Je sais pas, moi encore, il y a mon chum, là, qui est dans le trou. Fait que là, j'attends, je suis dans le contrôle. Il y a deux trous. Trente jours et moins, trente jours et plus. Ça s'appelle ENO. So I'm waiting, I'm in control because there are two holes, 30 days less, 30 days more. It's called ENO, it's also control of the penitentiary. It controls the guards, the doors, the locks, it's all control, but outside. It's on a farm, Indiana State Farm. We're on a farm. Indiana State Farm. On est carrément sur une ferme. On traite des vaches. Il y a toute sorte de...

Starting point is 00:45:47 On fournit toutes les pénitenties en lait dans le fond. Indiana State Farm. Fait que... Je dis pas que t'es chute, Canada vient de chercher. Moi, j'essaye d'en écrire ça, mon Canada là, justement, par... Que ce soit que le Canada vient whether Canada comes to get me, or if it's me in my country, it's a mess. Yes.

Starting point is 00:46:11 But I got it after, it's just because they wanted to take me from point A to point B, without a catomb, without knowing how to handle me, because they already had an experience. They wanted... To have made you come in. Not just that, because they wanted to to... To have you in the shot? Not just that, because they wanted to put Stephane in the shot, you know, for the start of a riot.

Starting point is 00:46:30 And it wasn't true at all. We ran from one side to the other, and then, come to my gang of cowards, come to me. Because there was an Asti Garden there, and the yellow Asti glasses, I still remember them. And he told us in the middle of the street, I know you're going to try to get away from me. And as soon as you do, I'm going to pass by you.

Starting point is 00:46:49 And as soon as I find you, I'll pull you out. Completely the same, in the street. I said, well, the day my man is going to arrive, it's going to take a long time before I'm going to be far away from him. But he was always arrogant, always, always, always, at the moment of birth. That's it, he wanted always, always, at the moment. That's it, he wanted to get my husband in the hole, and it didn't work out. I didn't talk much, and she promised me a little bit.

Starting point is 00:47:14 I took the letter, I was in Frélie, and in the report, she said, fuck you, fuck off, fuck you, motherfucker. It's three words. You're the only one is to save my prison. Yes, that's it. So, that's it. So, he takes me in the hole, and there's water.

Starting point is 00:47:34 There are several guards there. There's safety and safety there. So, I look at them from afar. And I see my man, he's being escorted by three guards. He puts them on my back. I saw him coming. I saw him coming in and he was looking at me.

Starting point is 00:47:53 I saw him right there. He passed. I saw him again, the security guard. He took out his little pen. He said, 92, He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK.

Starting point is 00:48:08 He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK.

Starting point is 00:48:16 He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, OK.

Starting point is 00:48:24 He said, OK. He said, OK. He said, but it's big cubes that you can't see through. It's like the... the... the... the gymnasium in the time. I have that in front of me. So he tells me to turn around, to the hole, put your hands on the side, to the chair, to the quarter, you and your legs. I do it, man. I'm going to do it. So I look around me, there's action, I look at it. There's a guard who says, look forward. I look at him, I'm going to look at him until I look.

Starting point is 00:48:55 He comes, he comes, he's crawling his hand in my face, he pushes me against the wall. He's instantaneous, I turn around, he crawls, it's in the front. The guy says, hey, instantaneous. Downantly, I turned around and I hit him in the forehead. It was instantaneous. Down there, it was like... It hit like ten, ten, and another, ten, ten, and another. It was everywhere, it was everywhere.

Starting point is 00:49:16 I told you, I was walking, in control, I was walking, I was in a terrible mood. To have come to get me, and And Canada didn't come to get me. I was like, I'm going to Canada, I'm not going to the hole. I walked around, it took them five cigarettes per arm

Starting point is 00:49:38 just to try to get me to the hole. But a blow that got me to the hole, my feet. I mean, the knees in the neck, in the back. I was getting a little mad. I was breathing like a madman. They were transporting me. I mean, they were carrying me.

Starting point is 00:49:57 And when they hit you in the hole, they put you on the wall, face the wall. And then they say, I'm going to take your hand out. And as soon as you feel your wrist coming out of the hand, you have to put your hand up as fast as possible on the wall. He was like, they're holding you up on the wall. You're out of your mind. You're out of your mind.

Starting point is 00:50:17 They were crazy. They didn't say what they were going to do. But you try to get up as fast as possible, and he puts his hands on the wall. So there, I had a wrist. on l'affaire, mais c'est assez de monter le plus vite possible, c'est les mains au mur. Fait que là, j'avais pas rien, j'ai fait de quoi, c'est trois semaines. Après ça, j'ai pogné mon rapport, j'ai passé de même une comité de discipline. La comité de discipline, c'est CAB, je me souviens. En tout cas, c'. It's like your discipline. The Americans, the state of Indiana,

Starting point is 00:50:50 it's half of your time. How does that count? When you have your agreement, it's a credit class one. It means that every day you do your credit, you get a second one. So your 10 years is 5. For now. For what is supposed to be.

Starting point is 00:51:08 Yes. You can talk about that with your classes, by having behavior reports. Okay? So he gives you the nannan, by the way. Yes. It's up to you to keep it. Keep it. It's right there. It's not better than you're good, the more we give you nannan.

Starting point is 00:51:23 You have the nannan, keep it. No, no, no, you're in the middle of that. There's no bad way to work at the same time. Okay. When you go to a discipline committee, they like that, they take you... You earn time. You earn time when you're already done. I don't know if I'm wrong.

Starting point is 00:51:41 Okay, let's say you're one year done. So it's like if you had two years done. Ah, finally you have one and a half done. It's like you had two years of celebration. But in the end, you have a year and a half celebration. It's a bit... Yeah, but it always depends on the report. No, no, no, that's an example that I came up with. Yes, they could have come to get 60 days of good weather. 90 days of good weather, when you have two years of celebration.

Starting point is 00:51:55 But that time, it adds to your date. But they can't take more time. Let's say one for one, they can't. If you have a year of celebration, they couldn't go down below a year. No, no, but it's really hard that they go down below a year. No, no, I'm really angry they're going to... No, no, I'm asking the question. But your first-class credit, they can put you in second-class credit. Second-class credit is every two days you do your third credit.

Starting point is 00:52:21 Okay? First-class credit is every two days you do your second credit. Okay? Crédit classe 1, c'est à chaque journe que tu fais des crédités bonne deuxièmes. Crédit classe 2, c'est à chaque deux jours que tu fais des crédités bonne troisièmes. Fait que tu viens de perdre un tiers de... Tu viens d'allonger d'un tiers ta peine. Ben oui! Puis crédit classe 3, tu fais jour pour jour. Ouh! Pour avoir tes classes, faut que tu passes six months for a class without a report.

Starting point is 00:52:46 If you're in CC3, you'll take a year to get to CC1. It's not retroactive. No, but you lost it. You lost it, but when you lose a class, it's 90 days. And when they give it back to you, they give it back to you for 45 days. So you lose, it seems, 45 days. Even if you've had a good time. So basically, I was supposed to be released on January 30, 1995.

Starting point is 00:53:16 I was released on May 8, 1996. But I understand that you're the one who has the vehicle, the sportographer, but I don't agree with this way of working. I don't know if you agree with me. Because I think that it's still... Because we always say that in Quebec and Canada, we're in a very punitive system. You know, prisons are very punitive. Really? No, but I think it's cool, you know, to say, listen, we're cutting your time in half,

Starting point is 00:53:48 it's up to you to keep that. Even if you lose your permit, you lose points, but if you're chill for two years, you'll get your... So I don't get this mentality, it seems, to have a rookie at the beginning, you know. At the same time, and it's sure, as I said, it it's what she's lived through. But, sincerely, for someone who's taken 12 and who's taken someone's life, 5 years,

Starting point is 00:54:14 I don't think it's a lot. Yes, I know. I know. It's not against you, you know. Well, no, not at all. You know. Not at all. I'm putting myself on the side of the victim's family. Yes.

Starting point is 00:54:27 It's... I would even say that today... I'm lucky enough to be there and be able to talk to you because... That's not true. There are a lot of things that are coming up that I want to tell you. So... But that's an extraordinary moment. I'm happy for you because for you it's still a spot to spend almost six years in prison in the United States,

Starting point is 00:54:52 but at the same time, for the gesture, it's really not... No, exactly. Exactly. It's not a lot. Yes, and that's not what I'm saying, when they offered us ten years, we took it right away. You didn't know, when you took ten years, did you know that there was this thing that was one for one? No, no, because you learn it when you go to the reception and the guide decides that

Starting point is 00:55:14 you're going to go. It's like our reception. We have a reception. Because they're over there, you have the state, prison of state, and you have federal. For you to be federal, are committed to a federal crime. Well, it's the drug of a state and not a federal. Committing a murder in a state is not a federal, it's a state. It's not like here, you don't have to be afraid of time.

Starting point is 00:55:34 Not at all, not at all. It's a conversation I had with Chris Edrobe. In fact, the last episode that came out on YouTube, at our meeting, it was someone who also made a sentence, but he was a federal, because he was from another state. He left Los Angeles, he came to New York, and he said, I think he was in New York, he got busted.

Starting point is 00:55:56 He was just a little bit taller. 76 kilos of coke. He was a little bit taller. No, no, he was a... And his number was longer than yours, he took a life. It's crazy, too. Yes.

Starting point is 00:56:07 It's crazy. But following those events, did you cool down, did you just try to make your shift as smooth as possible, or was it impossible? No, no, because with the reports and everything, I went through the hole. When I got out of the hole, that's when I passed in front of a kind of... Your agent of liberation. I had an agent there too.

Starting point is 00:56:37 So they cut me, my security level, the highest side. And it gave me 27. And 27 gave me a maximum. Because you physically raised enough of a garden. Yeah, but there were plenty of people who fought a couple of times. We bought food. When you go to the kitchen, you never see who gives you the food.

Starting point is 00:56:58 You put a packet of cigarettes underneath. You know, your chicken paddy. You're going to have cheese, cheese, and that in there, instead of just having the sandwich. You can buy oil, you can buy a lot of stuff. All that stuff, but if you get caught, it's reports and it's the same crap. It affects your rate of living. So...

Starting point is 00:57:23 You're young and you're a little cocky over there? Yeah, well, every time you're there, it's 19, almost 20 years that I've been there. I'm in my old age. I'm paying 200 L. I train 6 days a week, naturally. I pay 275 L, I pay 315 L, 165 L. I pay whatever I can. I'm a little ball of my machine. Well, you had nothing else to do. Well, no. That's it. That's it.

Starting point is 00:57:49 That's your life. And I went to school at the same time. That's when I was in my course in nuclear radiation. So I moved. He transferred me. I moved. And then I was in, and then a maximum security guard. Super maximum.

Starting point is 00:58:09 We had the death penalty. The first 19 cells down there, it's the 19. It's those who are waiting for the death penalty. I did 33 months, 23 hours a week of cell phone. 33 months of time. The time, it's the three meals of 20 minutes, then we go to the cafeteria every day. Okay, it's not an hour of class.

Starting point is 00:58:28 We don't have class. 103 times for meals, it's 20 minutes. That's your time not in the cell. Yes, yes, yes. Or you put the dishes in the cell, cook in the cell and then you give yourself an hour of activity, no? So no gym, nothing, nothing.

Starting point is 00:58:44 Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. Nothing, nothing, nothing. 23 hours, 24 minutes. I don't clean. A shower in two days, 10 minutes, they control the water. It's going to be a mess because they're going to close the water. It's full of soap, you're not going to leave with it like that. So...

Starting point is 00:59:04 It's been eight or nine days since I arrived here. 60% of the population is Afro-American. Reds, blues, there are a lot of blacks, Mexicans, Cubans together. Don't mix it up, white people stay with white people. Don't mix it up. It's been eight or nine days I've been here. I was about to come back from my meal. I have two African Americans who are coming back to me, but no, he's pretty much alive.

Starting point is 00:59:34 I go to my cell, he bumps me, he gets in my face. I go back, he says, you know, he can't apologize. He's cute. There's a lot of people who see that around. You can't apologize. No. There's a lot of people who see this around. They can't do anything. I had the whole night because it was dinner time. I had the whole night to think about what I was going to do. I know that people saw it and they said, What's going on?

Starting point is 01:00:02 Because at the moment you can't do anything, but if you do nothing... If you're done, you're going to Geneva and you're going to get raped. I'm going to come back, okay? So, that evening, I had the idea. We had the belts. We had a combination of belts. I put two combination belts at the bottom of my belt.

Starting point is 01:00:25 I wrapped my belt around my hand. At 6.15 in the morning, when the doors were open for lunch, I hurried out to the most sacred place. When you go out, there are three floors, one for us, 2500 people held by our penitentiary. It's not 500, it's 2500. When we go out, there's a lot of people, and I'll tell you, we have 17 towers under the wall. And when you go out, I'll tell you, about 15, 20 piles, or whatever, before your first turn, you don't have one.

Starting point is 01:00:58 So I hurry out, I'm right on the edge of the wall. Then the people come out, and they see that I'm right next to the edge of the wall, du mur. Là le monde sort pis là il voit ben que je suis à côté sur bord du mur pis y a de quoi va se passer. Fait que le monde se torte un peu, ben, jusqu'à temps que je le voie. Il sort, le gros, j'te dis, ça a été instantané. J'te allé ramasser la coupe de pad là, clac, j'te allé varger, j'te allé varger, le gros. J'voulais même plus arrêter, le gros, j'te dis, j'varger, j'varger. Y a un noir qui s'en vient en courant. J'ai entendu, hey, si tu t'em you get hurt, Dr. Cook, if you get hurt, it's me who jumps on you. The Indiana State member, South Bend in Indiana.

Starting point is 01:01:33 Dr. Cook. So from there, I said, I'm going to take him away, I'm going to take him away. He stayed there, everything stayed there. I tore my shirt, my number of detainees, the other gave me a jacket, all my numbering, the big black stamp. So I went to eat at the cafeteria, I came back, it was there, it went well. You didn't have feedback?

Starting point is 01:01:59 I didn't have any, no, no, no comeback. None, none, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. If something happens, first of all, the guards. You're really on the other side. And when you move, it's like in Ouna. They have dogs, they're dressed in military clothes. They're in sweaters, and the dogs... You walk on the same path, and you don't even pull a rock at a dog.

Starting point is 01:02:43 That's the source of the guardianship. In any case, it's in the top two. They would be like, oh yeah. So that's it. The world closes its mouth. And I'm like, one morning. A couple of months, it's not an extra year that I was there. One morning, during lunchtime,

Starting point is 01:03:15 I see all the others behind me, because it was before it was happening. We had hotpots, we could make fries, we had our oil and we made fries, so we could boil things. There are two guys behind me. Withoutile bouillante dans une wing. C'est là que je m'en viens. Je t'ai vu y aller, t'inquiète. Je voyais deux gars, un qui s'en vient de même, puis l'autre qui s'en vient de même avec des hotpots, puis c'était assez gros, là, avec l'huile de bébé bouillé,

Starting point is 01:03:41 puis on rentrait dans une cellule. T'as entendu? Un, tu t'es écrit de mort, mon chum, là. Puis en plus we went into a cell. You heard one, you screamed like crazy, my dear. And then you kept walking. Don't stop, do it. When I looked at her, I was looking at the corner of my eye, and when I was passing, the guy was at four feet, the skin was rolling everywhere. He was rolling, rolling.

Starting point is 01:04:00 I was saying, it's like he was becoming a scholastic. I was saying, it was disgusting a schoolboy. I was like, it's disgusting, it's crazy. I think it traumatized me because I remember it like it was yesterday. There was a lot of stuff like that in this place. You said you saw guys getting raped and all that. Yes, especially the boys. Psycho, that term. You're not the first to say it, but it's like yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:04:25 Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:04:33 Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:04:41 Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. So... You're young. You're... You can't see where you're going. You're in that peak. You're in your 20s. You're...

Starting point is 01:04:54 You're at your best. No girls. No. If I've tried... You control yourself. Certainly. There are some who are in the spotlight. There are some who...

Starting point is 01:05:07 Who want to, you know, it's not... Yeah, well, yeah, some of them. Mané, the... You pump in the morning and you pump your ass, you know, you're not concerned, he's going to eat, well, I'm going to go into your cell, and... And yeah, you know, it's... It's there, it's happening, because there are 20 minutes. Because, Mané, you're... If everyone becomes beautiful, you know, 20 minutes. Because, at my age, if everyone becomes handsome,

Starting point is 01:05:28 I have a way of speaking. Because the lack is so... Certainly, certainly. I was a young boy, I was a boy who looked like a woman. And one of the reasons why my security code went up is because in one of the reports, I got caught getting sucked to the law library, where we do feedback and everything, in the tapping machine, there's a hole there.

Starting point is 01:05:52 The other one, the guard comes, he puts the stick there, I can't say no, dude. I got there 90 days of holes, that's why, And when I got out of there, well... Well, you... Well, good for you to have the leisure to talk about... Because you know, it's your story, it's your past. It's not everyone who is at ease to say, well, yes, Chris, I was there, but it was that. It's not my business, man.

Starting point is 01:06:19 It's not my business. It wouldn't give me anything either. A hugger... There's something that's been said. It's a prison where there was capital punishment. That's where I'm coming from. Yes. So there are people who are... who are murdered by...

Starting point is 01:06:38 It's a murderer, as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to talk to you about Gregory Reznover. Okay. Gregory, he was caught in capital penalty in the state of Louisiana in 1994. Gregory was the last one executed by electric chair. Gregory was respected by everyone. You see that in front of his cell. You see that all of us, all of us, are made of metal.

Starting point is 01:07:04 We're made of a quarter're all made of metal. They're made of a quarter of a inch of metal. Everything is made of metal. We talk about the toilet to the toilet. We take the other one out of the toilet. We put a napkin on and we talk to the guy who had a cell that was farther away. We took the other one out. There were a lot of little things that...

Starting point is 01:07:18 And Gregory, well, everyone respected him because he respected everyone. He got caught in the capital penalty because he killed a bank guard during a bank robbery. He was passing in front of his cell and it was just pictures of his two little girls. There was no place for him in the morning. He was everywhere. Gregory was executed on December 8, 1994 at midnight 8. At midnight 12, it was going off. It was going off?

Starting point is 01:07:48 It was going off, yes. I was looking at the case of the state of Indiana, the execution of Gregory, and they said they pronounced him dead at midnight 13. I remember it was midnight 12 when the doors were open. Don't ask me how, don't ask me who opened them. The doors are open. Ask me how. Ask me who opened them. The doors are open. You know, before that... You know, our little plastic mirrors.

Starting point is 01:08:15 Yes, my man. We saw that in all the American films where there's a prison. It's true. Okay. I was going to go there for that. She said, open doors. Yes, yes, but why the little walls? Anyway. It's not in your head, but I wanted to say it.

Starting point is 01:08:35 No, I know, because I have a lot of things that happen, but that were before. That's it. At midnight, twelve. That's why the walls were saying. We didn't see it. At midnight, it's midnight. That's why the mirrors were telling you. We didn't see it. We saw that the action was being taken. We saw that the action was being taken, but we didn't see who had done what. When the doors were open, everyone came out. There were other sectors that were open.

Starting point is 01:09:03 It was a mess. The guards were doing a lot of damage. Some were being beaten up. Some ran after the laundry, the other one was running naked. Because there was one running after. It was hell. 14 days of time. We were in total M.E. That's 2,500 detainees. Okay? It took them 5 squad teams from 5 different cities. Cincinnati, Cleveland in Ohio, Indianapolis, Evansville in Indiana,

Starting point is 01:09:37 and Louisville in Kentucky to come and take control of the penitentiary. 14 days. 14 days in Grignottsville to eat our eat. We had the same canteen. Canteen for everyone. At some point, they were going to have... There was no food. No, that's it. At some point, they didn't have a choice. They had to feed everyone, but it was really a ration, a really small ration because they had to take the counter back.

Starting point is 01:10:01 When they decided to go in, le gaz acrymogène, puis la soie de la soie de la rentrée, la gaz, puis les bois eaux d'incendie, puis les balles à caoutchouc. Ça a été quoi le résultat de les meurtres? T'as-tu les t'sais combien de blessés, combien de morts qu'il y a eu total? Ça a-tu été... Faudrait que...

Starting point is 01:10:20 Parce que c'est sûr et certain que je pourrais le trouver ça. C'est clair, je veux dire. On parle beaucoup de la... Tu sais, au Québec, je n'ai parlé à quelques reprises, mais de la... Les meurtres d'Archamb's true. I mean, Chris, we talk a lot about, you know, in Quebec, I just talked about it a few times, but the murders in Chambord, you know. Yes, yes, I know. Yes, yes, the biggest murder I've ever seen. It's easy to find. And I think there were two guardians, I think, who were murdered. Well, in any case, I know there were some. Probably more, maybe more, you know, to see the 2,500 guys.

Starting point is 01:10:42 But Chris, how do you see that? Because it's not going to be as sudden as that. No. Maybe at the beginning, the first two hours of rebellion, we're in Chris because you just killed one of us, and that's why the murders are at the base for the execution. It's true, it's true. Before he executed Gregory,

Starting point is 01:11:03 I would say half an hour before, half an hour and 45 minutes, there was a guard on each floor asking us to unplug everything, the fan, battery charger, the kitchen, you just had your finger on your TV. And there was another thing, I don't remember what it was, we just had two, and it's true that the current is going down, my dear. It's true that the current is going down. There's a lot of juice going down. Yes, my man.

Starting point is 01:11:30 And you see, Gregory, it's midnight and eight, and you're four minutes later. It's not long. It's four minutes later. And you see, it happened. Even I have some misery. I think about that and I have some misery to believe that I really lived that. I went to Clare-Lamarche in 1994, in direct from Montpénitent-Cy, for dead people who had children in jail other than in Canada.

Starting point is 01:11:56 Axel Rose, I have a lot of pictures that he sent to my father. Yes, you were talking to me about Axel Rose, the singer of Guns N' Roses. He spent three months in prison. He was there for the introduction of the fraction and he passed the time of the tabri at large. That's where he sang Welcome to the Jungle. He comes from Lafayette, Indiana. It's crazy, right? Even I say that.

Starting point is 01:12:24 I'm a true Quebecois. I did a little bit of research. I did some partages in most prisons in Quebec. I composed songs with Eric Lapointe, Geneviève Paris, Sylvie Tremblay, Isabelle Boullée. I'm an anonymous sovereign, you know that. In the meantime, when I came back, I was released on the 8th of May, 1996, the day of the party at my mother's. The U.S. Marshals came to get me my pinnitent, took me to the federal prison in Chicago, waiting for deportations. I was there for nine days.

Starting point is 01:12:57 Excuse me, I wanted to ask you a question. Your husband, he was in your room? Yes. He was in Nahuatl, Indiana, and he was in the same prison as Mike Tyson. Was he released before you? Yes. Because he was better off than you? He was talking about it. He met my sister. It was cool. So you were in Chicago waiting for the deportation? Excuse-moi, en attente de déportation. En attente de déportation, j'étais là pendant neuf jours.

Starting point is 01:13:25 J'ai parlé à mon frère au téléphone. Il m'a fait découvrir Eric Lapoint. Je connaissais pas ça, Eric Lapoint, dans l'87. Puis il me fait écouter la chanson Cordonnet. Je sais pas si tu connais la chanson Cordonnet. 37 ans, absent de deux enfants, survie vraiment mon métier. Moi, t'as voué du Eric, c'est sa première radio. I was 37 years old, absent from two children, I survived my job. You're telling me that Eric doesn't play the radio?

Starting point is 01:13:48 It's his first album. I didn't know him either. Everything he sang described me. Exactly. Everything. I was screaming on the phone. I was screaming. He was singing my life, me. The same week I went out, I went to see him.

Starting point is 01:14:09 But when I came back, OK, when I came back on the 18th, the 17th of May, 1996, I had asked for arrest. That's hard to say, because you were saved. You had a sentence that was hanging on your ass. Yes, yes. My 68 months were done. I said, what's wrong? They came to get me. And then it's a crazy crisis. I take the plane to Congo, Montreal. When I get to Montreal, they give me a GFC and they're going to arrest me. I'm doing my entropy. So, that's it. They didn't take me to Montreal. I think it was Dorval, when we arrived.

Starting point is 01:14:50 Dorval Mirabil. It wasn't Streis. I think it was Streis who came to take me to the airport. The others were with me. They were fascinated. They didn't even notice me. Two policemen, one woman, one guy, were so fascinated by my experience, the journey I had taken. They wanted to know everything, how the American prison system worked,

Starting point is 01:15:13 whether you were right or wrong. But I had lost my French. I had lost my French. You were just with your brother, you spoke French and you were afraid to speak Spanish. My brother, he was English-speaking. I had written in English to my brother's wife, and she was the one who translated the letters to my mother.

Starting point is 01:15:37 French came to you. I had dreamt in English. Just in English. I was speaking in tabarnak, j'perdais mon français. Je l'avais retrouvé, t'as le confirme? Mais au super maximum, que j'ai trouvé dur, c'est un téléphone aux 12 jours. 15 minutes.

Starting point is 01:15:57 T'as droit à 5 numéros de téléphone qui est octroyé, pis on t'auront un super attendant, qui va avoir appelé la personne pour dire si c'est correct que je puisse les appeler. C'est 12 minutes. C'est 15 minutes aux 12 jours. Si j'appelle ma mère là, j'appelle mes enfants là, j'appelle ma sœur là. Quand j'arrivais à ma mère, il y a moins de mi, j'ai pas parlé. Mais le temps de Noël là. Mais là y'a un enfant. Parce que t'as dit tes enfants, mais moi tu m'as parlé de But Christmas time? But there's a child there. You said your children, but you told me about one kid you had at 17. Yes, and he was pregnant. Okay, so you, when you got on the boat, you were already pregnant with the second child?

Starting point is 01:16:35 Yes, yes. I was already pregnant with the second child. So basically, when I left there, my first boy was 7 years old, and my second was 5 years old. It was the first time I saw them. Quand je suis sorti de là-bas, mon premier garçon avait 7 ans, puis mon deuxième avait 5 ans. C'est la première fois que j'ai voyé. Parce que mon premier, j'ai vécu, mais à cause de ma consommation... Tu l'as vécu, mais t'es tellement sur le crack. C'est ça. 7 ans et 5 ans.

Starting point is 01:16:55 Quand t'arrives ici, tu gères cette punk, et là, ta balance de 100 ans, c'est mandat, il se passe quoi avec tout ça? Ça a joué pour moi. OK. What happened with all of this? It played for me. Okay. I tried, as I said, to come back to the American-Canadian law on the transfer of criminals by my general consulate in Canada. But Canada refused me twice. When I came back, I went to court mandats qui dataient de 1991 à 1992, dont mon cousin

Starting point is 01:17:25 avait poigné 15 mois. Le procurant demandait 15 mois aussi. Le juge a pris en considération ma sentence que j'ai faite aux États-Unis. Puis il y a certaines charges qui tombent après un certain temps, parce que c'est quand même possible parce qu'à cinq ans là-bas, il y a des charges qui ont tombé. Puis vu que j'ai essayé de revendre, le Canada m'a dit non deux fois. I spent more than five years there, so there were people who fell. And since I tried to go back to Canada, they said no twice. The judge took it into consideration. They gave me six months, one day.

Starting point is 01:17:52 So I did four months. Especially in September, they gave me a time limit, a period of time. 13 days. What are four months of provincial prison in Quebec compared to six years of American prison? It's nothing. What do we have? Even the hole, segregation, TV crisis, everything. Christ, man, it's so funny. It's so funny. They made a hole, man. You don't even know if it's day or night. It's a light crisis, man, that's embedded in the bottom of the concrete in the corner.

Starting point is 01:18:27 It's funny because the guest we had before you, he was talking about it. He's a guy who has a federal or Canadian citizenship. He was talking about the hole and he said, you know, you're just on TV. And he said, you know, he just said, Christ, you're on TV in the hole. It's sick! Yeah, it's crazy. You know, it's all, it's all. But you know, it doesn't take away either, I understand. You know, time is no longer easy, you're stuck in the hole. It's sick. Yeah, it's sick. You're all, you're all. But it doesn't take it away either, I understand. Time is not easier, I mean, now or later.

Starting point is 01:18:49 No, no. But for you, with what you've been through, I mean, it's... It's true, eating a tapas a la ll, it's nothing, when you just ate a straight, you know. But the two are not fun. Well, yeah, yeah, certainly, certainly. So, when I came back,

Starting point is 01:19:03 I came back in the Motor War. In 1996, I was two years old. I didn't know anything about all of this. I came back, I belonged in the Green Court, the RDP wasn't... So because of my American sentence, they put me in the federal class. They put me in the 13th. Fédéral ici. Fait qu'il me collait sur au treizième. Avec les gars. Richard Vallée, Patrick Locke, Franck Catrony, Sébastien Beauchamp,

Starting point is 01:19:31 la gang, les clics. Richard, ben, tabarnak, la amie de mon père. Quand ma mère est venue me visiter, elle par tenet, c'est ma mère qui l'a reconnu. Ma mère est comme ça avec la blonde à mon frère, l'anglaise, elle a mis à parler français. I recognize my mother. My mother is like that, with the blonde, my brother, in the east, she's having fun speaking French. So my mother, she talks to me.

Starting point is 01:19:51 I confess that she looks at her from behind. She says, hey, Nanny. I call her Nanny, since I was very young. Hey, is that Richard? Yes, mom, it's Richard. Well, you're a jerk. Richard, come here. He recognized me.

Starting point is 01:20:08 Well, he recognized me. He said, how are you? They had a little date. He recognized me. So that's it. I became the bunker to Richard. The apartment was double. You were next to someone.

Starting point is 01:20:24 You made your little mistake. It was in Partanel, it's not provincial, but from the States, in addition to a fairly... Very big respect, very big respect. I was in Partenay, after that I did the tour with the Paniniers à Salade, I had causes in Bécamont, I had a little everywhere, so I did the tour of the prisoners. But that's it. Partenay, I was with the guys. After that, we had an arrangement during the war. We didn't have the right to fight in Partenay. We didn't have the right to fight in the Justice Palace.

Starting point is 01:21:18 Why? Because there was a day that they could have two or three rocks and stuff. And the next day they had two or three L's. You know, we had the arrangement. Pourquoi? Parce qu'il y a une journée qu'ils pouvaient avoir deux, trois avec ma chienne, pis le lendemain ils avaient deux, trois à elles, ils se tient pis... T'sais, on avait l'arrangement. Puis une journée, on passait à court, moi, p'tit cloc. Pis c'est ça, on est dans le bout de peine, on parlait de justice. Toi, ça a pas été long que t'a pris ton bar. Ben oui, ben oui. Moi, ça a été instantané.

Starting point is 01:21:40 T'avais rien à faire, mais parce que c'était des chums de ton père de l'époque. Ben oui, ben oui. Moi, toi, t' always red, and I'm always going to be red. That's it. So, that's it, Pat is in the boot pan in front of me. And he's wearing his Bob Chopper shirt. He's the one who provides the supporters' laundry. Long hair. So there's a guy, an Indian, who came in with Pat, with his jacket and his Warriors.

Starting point is 01:22:08 I saw him, I saw him making a lot of trouble. An Indian. Pat was there, he was in a hurry, and he was watching me. So there, the Indian is going to have Pat, and He's a fan of the H.A. He's a fan of the Canards. He's got some moves. He knows he can't go first because he's going to die. He's not going to have the knuckle. The other one goes first.

Starting point is 01:22:40 It's right on the line. It got stuck in the bottom of the road. When he made a guard, the guy, and there was no nasty guard that would stop these two from walking. It's crazy. The guards' state was not resolved, and they were walking like a star. It's nasty.

Starting point is 01:22:58 So... Pat crawls in the hole, he climbs up, because he's not supposed to go to the justice, he climbs up. But when he came out, Pat, he looked at me and said, he has one with you. So I'm in the bottom of the pit, so I started, I looked at everyone, I looked at everyone, who could be in the cannon, in time North, I opened this, I knew... I knew... He was dead.

Starting point is 01:23:29 He was dead. We were in war, we were one against the other. We came from the same sector, we always respected each other. And after the war, we met, we took a stand, and he's always been a good time with me. Those who haven't seen it, give me episode 61, and François is dead. Yeah, so that's it. When that fight happened at the justice palace, I tried to find the one I was after. I got them after, when we went up to the top, and then we went back down, and they didn't come. Which is not a bad thing, if that didn't happen.

Starting point is 01:24:10 Well, I was... You just... You're not even looking at it. You're not even... But you have the mentality of a prisoner. I understand, you're brainwashed in prison. You want to be there with your brother. You know, open that.

Starting point is 01:24:23 It's instantaneous. Were you able to get back to normal life quickly after? Not quickly. I'll tell you why not quickly. You're making a number. What was waiting for you. When I left, when I did my four months, after 68 months, you believe me, Cédric, in the same week I was going to fly the qualified flight. In the same crisis of the week.

Starting point is 01:24:50 Just to see, I had the adrenaline. I never liked that, I never liked extreme adrenaline. I didn't like climbing, climbing it was boring. I liked that, I liked that. I didn't like the world, I liked that. And what about scare people, you know. I liked that. What about being with your children, that you didn't see for 16 years? Yeah, well, no, not that. To live to see...

Starting point is 01:25:13 Only it was hard. It took me to do that. I risked 10 years. The way you said it, I understand. You answered quickly. Yes, not in the sense that you didn't like your children anymore. No, no, yes. It was... it was... Do you agree that it was a bit like the PUFF?

Starting point is 01:25:32 Yes, yes. Yes, it was a dependency. So that was a bit what you were going to do. Yes, it was a dependency. Yes, yes, yes, some. Some. I played the gun. You had control. You didn't have control for six years. Certain. Certain. C'est bien ça, jouer du gun. T'avais le contrôle. Ben oui. T'as pas eu le contrôle pendant six ans, tiens. Là, tu pouvais contrôler ta vie, tu pouvais contrôler tes gestes plus.

Starting point is 01:25:50 Mais pas nécessairement. Ben j'étais dangereux. C'est le moment d'impulsion, c'est le moment de l'action. Hey, c'est le carré, ce gars. Des choses, je peux pas te compter, ben j'ai jamais fait d'arrêter, non, mais... Non, c'est que... De toute façon, on est pas là. C'est pas le but, mais on comprend la mentalité de... Oui, oui, oui. Mais est-ce que tu t'es fait très arrêté? I never got arrested. No, because... It's not the end, but we understand the mentality of... Yes, yes, yes.

Starting point is 01:26:08 Did you get arrested? After that, yes. But not for that. I did those 7 crimes. I never got arrested for that. But I risked it. Practically. I didn't do anything. It's a 10 year old. Yes, because you're a 10 year old. Just to see if I didn't do anything. I was only ten years old. I was just trying to see if I could still get the adrenaline I needed.

Starting point is 01:26:28 It was the same. It was over. I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again.

Starting point is 01:26:36 I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again.

Starting point is 01:26:44 I never did anything again. I never did anything again. I never did anything again a lot of things that come, I try not to get too far from certain subjects. Bordeaux, Bordeaux. I did my tour in Bordeaux when I arrived in 96, I did part-time. I transferred to Bordeaux. When I arrived in Bordeaux, it was Gregory Woolley who was president. Gregory Woolley, I was in the reception center when I was young. I've known Gregory since he was very young. I didn't even know that I was going to have this. I arrived at my cell number 26. I had a big Batman drawn on my c'était marqué Joel Kidd, 91-96, USA. J'étais en train d'être dans ma cellule, j'avais un gros big, grand machine en rouge,

Starting point is 01:27:32 un caractère rouge. J'étais comme si... Ma sentence, oui, américaine, mais j'ai toujours été respecté. Même, j'ai eu... j'ai po got caught six and a half years after my sentence. In 2009, I got caught six and a half years to qualify for this castration, to be a star. I was the one who went up the ladder, I was the driver, I was the scanner, and that's it. And why was I saying that?

Starting point is 01:28:09 I don't know, but I want us to come and... Yes, go ahead. I'm going to take a little lead. Go ahead. You were released from the board of directors. Yes. You go out, you do qualified flights because you're... Yes.

Starting point is 01:28:26 You're not caught. When does family life start? I mean, between 2009, a lot of time has passed, a lot of years. You say you had a daughter and all that. Yes. You know that today you're a plumber. Yes. But what happens after that flight?

Starting point is 01:28:46 I mean... Yes, I had a child with Kelly. Kelly was the woman I met from a guy from the Fer du Rhum to Tourneu, to Bécamo. So the mother of your first two, never went back? No, never. You met another girl, so your third kid, who is your daughter... I had six children and four wives. Six me, okay.

Starting point is 01:29:11 I have five boys and one girl. Okay, so you had two firsts before you left for the States. Yes. You come back, you do your four months, you go back, you do your qualifying, that's where you start to sleep all the time. Well, no, with Kelly, Kelly, I was four years with her, and I had my boy Tommy. Tommy who is a plumber today. We went to three.

Starting point is 01:29:34 Yes. After that, after being with Kelly, I was in a relationship with Sophie, but I didn't have a child with Sophie. We skip Sophie. But Sophie, I met her best friend. I had a child with her best friend. So I joined. We're back together. Okay. And after that, later, because I never really went out with her,

Starting point is 01:30:00 but later, I met Stephanie, who was the sister of a guy I knew well. I worked in an exchange club. She was an auxiliary nurse. She had just come out of a 10-year marriage. She never had another room. I fired her one after another. I had two children with her. Five, six. Yeah, that's it. Now, you just said, what, I worked in an exchange clubs, I feel like I'd leave an hour to change that, but I want us to focus on other things.

Starting point is 01:30:31 Okay. And that's it, Stephanie, I was four years with her. What's your relationship with your kids today? I don't have good relationships with them all, because I would say my first ones, since dad was never really there. At the beginning, huh? relation parce que je te dirais mes premiers vu que papa jamais vraiment était là au début jamais été capable de se délire avec eux autres non j'ai quand mon premier garçon a eu son sa petite fille j'ai vu ensemble durant noël quand j'ai revenu et puis après ça on a pris contact là on me demandait mais les enfants me demandaient regarde c'est beau dans les temps de Noël et tout là on veut pas plus, on veut pas plus de toi là.

Starting point is 01:31:14 Puis je les comprends là je peux pas... Non. Mais je te dis là Cédric là... T'as fait tes choix, tes assumes. You made your choices, you assumed. As much as, you know, you were told, Mima sefeneye, you go out alone, you go out alone, as much as you have to be selfish, we're going to do that, as much as this side, Mima sefeneye, when I left after years and years, it was reflected in my circle, my entourage. That's right. So my children often went to third grade.

Starting point is 01:31:48 Often. What do you live from? You earn your living, I mean, until 2009. We'll get to 2009, but what do you do? What does your life look like? You were talking about working in an exchange club. Well, exactly. It's exactly the same time I worked in an exchange club. Exactly. It was exactly the same time I worked in an exchange club.

Starting point is 01:32:06 But did you... Consumption. I paid to leave here. And also... That's why I asked you at the beginning, you told me, I stopped consuming, I asked you to crack, you told me to make a little joint. Yes, but I knew I was going to get there. I didn't want to tell you everything either. But that's it. The club changed, it's going to have trips and etc. So, Stephanie, the day of the trip, my children, I had my two children there, my house.

Starting point is 01:32:42 Okay, that's why. J'ai eu mes deux enfants là, ma maison. OK, c'est pour ça. On s'est toujours entendu, moi pis Stephanie, que si malheurement on échangait, on ne jamais tombait amoureux de l'autre personne. Tout allait bien, je ne suis pas une personne jalouse en tant que tel. Mais c'est arrivé de mon bord à moi, où je suis tombé en amour pour un petit jeune, tu sais, puis c'est ça. J'ai négligé mes enfants, mais j'avais ma maison.

Starting point is 01:33:10 Une journée, j'arrivais à la maison, ma femme était partie avec les enfants, elle avait tout vidé. Pendant que j'étais parti, elle avait ses frères, son père, ils ont tout venu, ils aidaient à sortir les affaires de la maison. Tu menais une double vie à cette époque-là, un peu. He helped me get my things out of the house. You were living a double life at the time. Yes, yes. I lost my job. I lost my house. I... I... I... I really got lost. I let myself go. And then, well, negative attendance. Well, it was... well, it was people, you know, stealing the places of power. And then it went further. It was... it was... it was qualified. Yeah, a top, stealing the places of power. Then it spread further away, you know, I was doing qualified flights. Yeah, a top crime for things that you weren't judged.

Starting point is 01:33:50 Yeah, I was judged on that. Okay, perfect. Yeah, I was six and a half. Okay. That's not what I told you. So that's it. Just in there, I had my KGB I got caught. So, let's go back. When you were caught, it was for the jewelry thing, you were talking about it earlier. Yes.

Starting point is 01:34:09 There were other things that fell on your back. Did you have a back as well, or was it just for that? No, no, no. There was another one too. Another one that had to qualify with sequestration. It was more to take control of the place, to take the entrance, and then we're empty. That's it.

Starting point is 01:34:24 Without seeing the violence. place, boire à porte d'entrée, pis on vide, c'est plus ça. Sans voir utiliser la violence, ça. C'est sûr que déjà là, empêcher quelqu'un de sortir de la situation. Une séquestration, pas obligé de pointer un gomme dans la face. C'est en plein saut, c'est en plein saut. Fait que j'ai fait mon six ans et demi, du sur mon six ans et demi, je me suis ramassé au Leclerc. C'est là qu'ils ont pogné ma I went to the on tour, on s'est évader du tour. Moi, Tortue, Bois Sivigny, Mike, Guiliani. On était quatre, on a découdi la clôture, le gars. On a sorti du trou. Parti à Chérène, Leclerc, tout le monde dans le secteur,

Starting point is 01:35:14 à Steve, montre l'équipe de Pokémon. Fait qu'on s'avait barricadé à l'entour de la piscine. Les gars, tirer les moustafris là en bas, la musique dans le tapis, ils se sont dit, « Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh! » Fait qu'on a passé la journée à l'entour de la piscine, The guys were throwing the music in the carpet. We spent the day in the pool, wanting to transfer to Nakona. At the end of the day, we transferred to the US. We were in the US for a week and a half, waiting to go to Nakona.

Starting point is 01:35:41 Then we went to Dona. I did my violence program in Dona Cona. And then we went to Dona. I did my violence program there. If I had known that the others were suffering, I would have done my internship there. So that's it. I went to Dona, I did my violence program there. I got out of there, I went back down to medium security. The other one didn't want to. And I said, hey, Andromone, I always went in, club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I was always in the club, I've always consumed in it, I've always sold in it, even though it's preventive security.

Starting point is 01:36:28 There are bags that I have, that's what saved my business, big one. It's crazy, it's crazy. The inculcating routine. Because there are certain holes that you can save your business. Even if there's a camera connected to you, even if there is, even if there is. When you're in trouble, it takes three guards to open a door. If there are two during lunch, well... Which number did you find the most rough?

Starting point is 01:36:54 The 6 years in the States or the 6 years in the US? I would say here. Why? Outdoor contacts. Because over there you have no contacts, you have nothing. No phone, no phone. You don't have a shirt, you don't have your stuff. There's no woman there, no Supermax, there's no such thing as a woman. There are all men. You, to have all the contacts with people from your outside, children, your wife who's

Starting point is 01:37:20 outside, that's what you find the hardest. Yes. In any case, for me, it's always been like that. I understand. When I called Santa Claus, I called my family, Santa Claus, your family, my mom's.

Starting point is 01:37:33 It was on the phone. My mom, my mom, my mom. Natalie, it's crazy. I was angry. I wanted to break everything. It's because of me that I'm here, not because of anyone else. How long have you been doing this? I finished in 2014. I signed in 2014.

Starting point is 01:37:57 But I started a business. My potential is there. I do everything, man. I do everything. I'm very concerned about the well-done work. If it's not good for us, it won't be good for you. But I do everything, man. I can build a house. 2014? Yes. You're released?

Starting point is 01:38:14 Yes, I'm in a lawsuit. And since then? You said you were hard to... Do you sometimes have the adrenaline rush? Do you find it with your family, with your business, with your children? Yes, I love my job. If I'm good, I learn the best. I love it. I tell you, I miss working in the market. I love it.

Starting point is 01:38:41 I love it. I'm good. My potential is in my hands. When you discover what you're good at, it's rewarding. Yes, and even when I decided to leave my account, I didn't have a tool. I just got out of DuPen. I said, I don't have a tool. My brother has a window-sharing company. I asked my brother, where do you want to go? He told me, yes, Chris, I'm going to encourage you. Go to the garage, go get what you need.

Starting point is 01:39:11 I told him, he gave me everything. He gave me everything. I left. With announcements. He must be proud of you today. Yes, everyone in the family is happy. Everyone is proud. My mother, my mother, my mother, my mother.

Starting point is 01:39:25 Is she still... Yes, my mother is still there. I spoke to her last night and she knew I was coming today. But my mother... My mother... She never hid herself to get me in. She always told me the truth. She always told me the truth. She always told me, too,

Starting point is 01:39:45 that I'd like that if you came to a good boy. I'd like that if you stopped doing it. When I stopped doing it, it was hard for my mother to tell me. I'm tired of you. I'm happy where you came from and where you were. Don't give up, keep going. I encourage you. It took me a while. But when I received it from my mother, I knew it was true.

Starting point is 01:40:09 I knew it was true. I know you had time to think about it, you had time to think about it, you had time to analyze it, but is it something you're thinking about, or are you still dealing well today with the fact that you have saved a life? I'm very happy. And I will be happy for the rest of my life. Because these are things you can't go back to. You can't.

Starting point is 01:40:36 You know... It was hard. The first few days, especially during the trial, the first few days, that's when it was the hardest because I had to learn to live with it. Learn to live with something you never wanted, you never wanted to happen either. You're not a criminal, a criminal, a guy who's stealing. No, no, no. You're a bigger liar.

Starting point is 01:41:10 Ah, yes, my man. Well, it's tough. I'm telling you, the big guys, they don't impress me. I promised you I'd get you drunk tonight. They don't impress me. Take everything, take everything. I saw a lot of things. I did things that I even, at certain moments, I even was afraid of myself. I did things that I thought were not the limit, and I don't want to go any further, I don't want to go any further than that.

Starting point is 01:41:39 So I eliminate all that. I don't jump from the edge, I don't like to risk a situation to become or to take on my will and to have to become... You said something that brings me to a question that I regularly ask my guests. Yes. Are you still afraid of yourself today? Yes. Why? Because I didn't reach my limit. We don't have to reach it. I didn't go. I didn't reach my limit. We don't have to go. That's why I told you. That's why I told you.

Starting point is 01:42:10 Yes, I had a part. Certainly, I did things that I... And I know I could have done worse than that. And I don't want to go. But again today, it scares you to be... Well, yes. Because you know that... In front of my daughter.

Starting point is 01:42:22 You're aware of the possibility that you know you can go far. Yes, in front of my daughter. I tell you, sometimes I have nightmares. That my daughter comes to me with bruises on her face, that someone hurt her. I tell you, I'm extremely afraid of my reaction. Even my daughter, she wouldn't even want to talk about it. Listen, the worst is crazy because I don't remember,

Starting point is 01:42:56 I'm shooting a lot of episodes, but I remember a guest who said that to me. She said, I lived through something and I was so afraid of my father's reaction that I never told her. Yes. Yes. Because she preferred that her father, you know, she just imagined her father being 25 years old if she told him she was just coming to live. So she didn't denounce the aggressor. You know, which is not a good thing. And, you know, when you tell me, when I tell you that my children suffered a lot because of my anisomy, that something would happen to my children, I would have a heartbeat, even knowing that they will suffer again. Impulsivity is still there.

Starting point is 01:43:43 And, hey! I won't let you out, but you know what's coming. Someone's going to do something to me. I'm going to react less than if someone did something to my family. I know, I'm a family man. My sister, my sister, hey, my sister, she comes to our house at some point. I open the door, she's in a mess with hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey calls me, Grandma, grandma, come here, your father is about to fight with Martin. It's my sister's room.

Starting point is 01:44:28 And that, I got to my sister's room, the pigs were there, there were a lot of people there. I wrote these things on the paper, I ran away, I jumped in the tower, I wanted him, we're leaving. A police officer, what could happen to me? I'm in a mess. I'm not going to my family, damn police officer. Be my brother-in-law, be my... I'm not a But everything can happen. We're not at the mercy of what... You can walk down the street, a guy is going to hurt his wife, I'm sure I'm going to help him.

Starting point is 01:45:10 I can't do nothing. I can't. I understand. I can't. I'm exactly like that. I'm the same. I learned over the years, to be a saviour. And the saviour in my nose, you...

Starting point is 01:45:27 You know, a number of times I got thrown out of the bar, because I wanted to give a hand to people, and I got into trouble. You know? Anyway, I got out of the bar. Respect, respect, I don't ask for it, I demand it. So when someone will take it to me, they'll throw a pair of eyes at me,

Starting point is 01:45:42 I'll show respect. But what's the story of that today? Yeah, yeah, I know. That's why it doesn't happen anymore. You know, you understand? Yes. Even if it happens. I know. What is it? But...

Starting point is 01:45:53 What is important? It's anchored. What is important? Myself, my family, my children. It's you, it's your wife and your children. The guy who looks at you, you don't know... What was the day? Did he really look at you?

Starting point is 01:46:04 The guy is on the ice and he doesn't know... Nothing happened. Does? Did he really look at you? Did he really look at you? Did he really look at you? Do you understand? How much does it cost? Do you want to go to another place? I could not... I could not... I could not...

Starting point is 01:46:20 I could not... I could not... I could not... I could not... No, but... Saint is still there. Yes, because... You know, I lived... Yes, that's it, I lived. You know, as I told you, he wants a pair of eyes, I'm going to show him respect. Even if he's a liar. If he keeps looking at a pair of eyes after I showed him respect,

Starting point is 01:46:37 then what? I have a problem with myself. You know, it's all little things that make... But you have to learn with time. Yes, I know. You have to have your talent before you speak. But a problem with me? Well, throw it away, man. I'm going to manage myself. If no one is physically aggressive with you... I'm sure you're jealous.

Starting point is 01:46:56 You know, it's a thing that the podcast brought me. I'm getting pissed off, I'm getting written. I'm going to be pissed off. Come on, don't walk in my direction so fast, violently violently with a point of interest. Yes, that's jealous. You speak loudly, you shout loudly. You're not even coming to our house. You sent me to shit for half an hour, but I have two girls who will make me smile.

Starting point is 01:47:15 What I like about you is that I love someone who is authentic. You have that. You're authentic. You have that. You're authentic to yourself. Ever since I saw Cédric and all your podcasts and everything, you've never been different. You've always been true to yourself. We work hard. We try. So, already, the winner is a very, very good quality, my friend. Giovanni, I'm going to listen. Thank you, man. It's a really interesting podcast.

Starting point is 01:47:47 We had to say, I don't know. Well, yeah, that's it. We could have, if we could, we could have a one-hour. Certainly. But it's interesting. But, you know, the clubs are changing. Oh, well, there's more. There's a lot more to be told.

Starting point is 01:48:00 You know, we're the essential. We're bigger. But, man, I told you, you told me you had already written everything, you lost. But you have so many things to do. Sit down with a paper and a pencil and say everything you have to say. Take out 800 big ones. Big, hey, the big one, the big one. Take out a couple if you write a book.

Starting point is 01:48:21 And it's going to be, I telling you, write, man, write. Well, I'll tell you, I don't have... You have time, find the time. Yeah, no. Retirement, man. No, not maybe, not maybe, not maybe. But I don't have the energy, like the training, the time... Yeah, but just...

Starting point is 01:48:35 Yeah, but man, your journey can... You know, especially young people like that, what happened to you? It didn't inspire people. This podcast will inspire young people, it will inspire people. Well, I did... There are a lot of people who know me. I've done partages in most prisons in Quebec. You know, I'm known everywhere.

Starting point is 01:48:52 So, yes, my chum. Thank you, man. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate it. Don't give up. You're doing a great job. I love your podcast, man. Bingo.

Starting point is 01:49:06 Thank you. I respect my chum. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Au revoir. You

Au Parloir - Épisode #95 - Giovanni

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