Aunty Donna Podcast - An Interview with Paul McCartney & Peter Jackson

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

In this episode we join Zach as he interviews two creative giants, Sir Paul McCartney and Peter Jackson, to get a peak behind the documentary The Beatles: Get Back.  LINKS Buy tickets to The Magical Dead Cat World Tour - https://bit.ly/auntydonna-worldtour Follow @theauntydonnagallery on Instagram https://bit.ly/auntydonna-ig . Become a Patreon supporter at http://auntydonnaclub.com/ . CREDITS  Hosts: Broden Kelly, Zachary Ruane & Mark Bonanno  Intro VO: Tom ZahariouProducer: James Blake Social & Digital Producer: Nick BarrettAudio Imager: Mitch Calladine Supervising Producer: Elise Cooper  Managing Producer: Sam Cavanagh   Find more great podcasts like this at www.listnr.com/ Join The Aunty Donna Club: https://www.patreon.com/auntydonnaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A list-n-a production. Get our legends and welcome to another rip episode of the Anti-Donna podcast. In this episode, we join Zach as the interview's two creative Jones, so Paul McCartney and Peter Jackson, to get a peek behind the making of the documentary The Beatles Get Back. Remember, you can get access to bonus episodes and the video versions of the podcast over at anti-donnaclub.com. Remember, you can get access to bonus episodes and the video versions of the podcast over at ANTIDONACLUB.com. Hello and welcome to the Hollywood Reporter podcast.

My name is Zachary Rauin. Just this week we hit the year in a bit anniversary. We hit the year in a bit anniversary of the Seminole documentary project from filmmaker Peter Jackson. Get back, the Beatles, get back when it was released on Disney Plus across the world. It took the world by storm. It was a look at a creative process that we didn't realise was so wonderfully captured. In honour of this year in a bit anniversary, I've got two very special guests on the podcast. The director of the film, Peter Jackson, hi, how are you? Hi, there's anything for't been here, it's really pleasure to get in talk about

get back to the fantastic project that I worked on during the coronavirus era. Fantastic to have it work on it at that time. Thank you so much, Peter, and also joining you today, and this was a real privilege, zooming in from London, executive producer and one of the subjects of the documentary. Yes, basically. Sing a songwriter Paul McCartney.

Yeah, it's a lovely video. The appear is good to see you again. Yeah, Paul and the test, obviously, huge part of the documentary, man. Well, yes, it was my band. That's right, no, I was. The documentary was about a... The beach was here. The little band, man. Well, yes, it was my band. That's right. No, it was awesome. The documentary was about a... The Beatles, yeah.

The band was in, uh, sort of in the 60s, uh, 360s, uh... That's right. And we're just looking at footage. And so obviously, we've been working together at the time for quite a period from memory, uh, working together and you sort of...

What is such a great job directing those videos and those documentaries? We've lovely to have you along, to do a little bit of sessions and you know, we put it together quite well. You know, it would be long for me. I go and go to my computer and I can sit through it. I sort of just put it on. Well, you're imagining you're there, but it's actually, that's a beautiful thing growing

up in New Zealand. At the time, just fascinating to see that footage and hand that album come together. So we were just in London passing through and we were working with the production company. We had this all on the server. I thought it would be actually fascinating to get in there and sit down and have a look at it. So is that how it started? You discovered the footage.

Was this something that you were approached by anyone at the Beatles or how exactly did it come up? I've been working with Phil Magnum for 30, 40 years and Magnum Phil, we and actually made Lord the Rings. Oh, what was that? Tale of Two Cities and the other ones as well. There's sort of small men, hobbits and running around New Zealand. And that was quite successful, made quite a lot of money out of that and other films, King Kong.

Oh, you're making King Kong? You're making King Kong. And so for a long time, it's making things, and more recently worked on recreation of World War One footage. Oh, that sort of thing. They showed up, they showed up, grow old. Just out, we've had our footage of soldiers in World War One. And we thought we can actually use modern technology

to really make it feel like you know these people. They've always been a war, a war, a war, a war buff. Have you seen the documentary of the middle? You seen a little bit, a little bit. Excuse me, sorry, Peter, a former character. There seems to be a bit of a problem with the connection. I can't quite understand what you're saying. I'm just talking my sort of, maybe I just, because I'm like 138 years old. Maybe it was just because I'm like 138 years old. Oh, okay, sure, sure. Peter, but... I have three albums coming out next month.

Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. I can't stop coming up with Didis. That's why I saw that footage we found in 1968, I think it was. You were making it back, actually it wasn't even in recording studio. It was actually in your shooting. Well, the footage we found was actually quite incredible. There are on a sound stage. We've been shooting this not great for acoustics, as you said in the film. And

Paul Kahnning was showing up in John Lennon's wife, you're going on there. And you can feel that tension. You can feel that years of working together and with George Harrison, Ringer Starr. And you just hope one day I'm ticking away from John to arrive. He's in a little bit late. You just pick up the turn start writing a song and start paying get back. Well, yeah, it's sort of, have you seen the documentary? Yes, yes, I watched it. Yeah. It was a brilliant film.

Well, I really liked it. It was so long, but some of the most interesting bits of the process got left out in my opinion. Okay, what were they? Well, you know, when I'd come up with little things on in my head, the lyrics are sometimes not the first thing that comes to me. So I sort of use sort of standing lyrics to begin with, like, you know, yesterday, you know, originally that the lyrics to that weren't about yesterday. They were about scrambled eggs.

Oh, where they were. Yeah, it's sort of come up with the tune and then I just put some lyrics on top and John would help me later. It was more in a scrambled eggs. On my toast I put my scrambled eggs. They were sort of the first version of lyrics and they were John changed them later. Peter, this is a film I think ultimately about collaboration. You've had a number of collaborators, your writers, friend Walsh, and also you've worked at Langsworth Wedded Workshop, Wedded Digital, down in Wellington.

I was wondering what it felt like watching some of this footage, and were there any synergies between the creative process of making an album and making a film such as the film? Yeah, more recent years, I'm all exploring niches and crevices and places I can find certain things. So obviously, they shall not go old as footage of these young men going off to war, where we One, and the footage is quite deteriorated. We used mon technologies to work away and find a way to make that feel like we shot yesterday. And I think we accomplished that quite well. So these soldiers remember a century ago.

It's very similar to the design of writing a soul. Yeah, we could do a labr elaborate on that at all, Paul? Well, yeah, you've sort of seen the documentary, we sort of trying to come up with a new album, and that's very similar to going to war. You're going to war with your brain, and with your creativity, with your self-confidence, and sometimes things don't always work out.

But it's all about much like a war. It's all about the process. self-confidence and sometimes things don't always work out. But it's all about much like war. It's all about the process. Like get back, for example, and crazy. You know someone get back. Yes, yeah. Originally, that was worth the lyrics. Oh, what about that?

No. Originally, the lyrics, sometimes when I'm writing songs, I have a difference, I'll just write something quickly just to get the two. Yeah, right. Get back was originally about some sort of scrambled eggs. And we would go scrambled eggs, scrambled eggs, scrambled eggs on my toast for breakfast. Oh, it's probably captured that footage. Actually, happening on camera, and we showed it to Paul recently,

who's performing at the cake tin and went on to end there. So that's where you wrote it. You said, oh, yeah, that is actually where I wrote it. That's when we had actually that caption. 40, it was fantastic. Peter, you very famously have had a complex relationship with Hollywood. It's quite well-known that you struggled

with your original edit for frighteners. It's quite serious question. It's just a normal... This is normal. In film band. In film industry. I get the sense watching your latest work, both your documentary work and some of the films you've been in EP on, that you're taking advantage of the new freedoms of working outside of the Hollywood system,

I was wondering if you could talk to that. Hmm. Yeah. Fine, often. Go on. Most comfortable. Yeah, I find it's most comfortable too. I work from home, I work from my own position,

and I've made fucked-ons of money, and I can just stay at my house and do most things. So I do that, and I don't really talk to anyone. That's very similar to the process of writing a song. Yeah, I find this just a lot of directors went, once you get to a position of... Oh! I think I get to a position of...

I just said I think it's my character to make this funny. I just don't know what you sort of put that pressure on. It's real attention that I need to lift it up, but... Oh, yeah! Because I don't think my character, though, I have his not particularly funny character. So there's nothing really all right. I got your script. I really had one bit, which was sort of taking classic beat all songs and talking about

how the lyrics said first, we were about scrambled eggs on those. That's really all I've got. I was hoping to be able to lean on my two friends to sort of flesh that out and maybe make this a bit more of a fun, pure pasty. And for me, this is more a conversation about my work in the industry. Which is very similar to random song.

Yeah, and I've made these big blockbuster films. And I've moved more to things that fight. I find nature interesting in the world, one that shall not grow old and get back to the documentary about your band making one of their albums. Yeah, it's my little band. My, my, my, my, it's right, these were small bands. It's iconic. It's iconic.

Group from the 60s. Now, make it funny, make it funny. Yeah, absolutely. I find myself acutely over here.ely aware that I'm talking to two artists that have worked for the funny question or something that has really entered into the canon of their respective art form with the Lord of the Rings trilogy and its record, Eleven Oscar Wins and also the 10 year career of the Beatles. But I'm also talking and the wings never forget the ones and that's exactly my point You know, I'm also talking to artists who at their time, you know

are very experimental ground-backing and I wonder what it what it feels like Do you see those works the Beatles the Lord of the Rings as a burden or do you embrace that legacy? race that legacy. Move before I get to you. I get to you a deeply serious question. Does anyone want to touch on a pulmocan in the wings? That wasn't the original name. It wasn't the original name of the group. I knew I wanted to do something food related.

I knew I wanted to do Paul McCartney and something, and I really wanted to come up with the working down a couple of times. For inspiration from what was in my... What Linda was keeping in the fridge at the time. Let's scramble things. We don't keep scramble eggs in the fridge. Okay, let's go to the scrambled eggs and's scramble eggs more. We don't keep scrambled eggs in the fridge. No eggs in the scrumptum that maybe later.

Well, we have never had scrambled eggs in the fridge. We have had them. Scramble eggs? In the fridge. No, we'll have the eggs and then you'll take them out and crack the eggs open, put the eggs into a bowl, sort of scramble them up. Then we'll use a sort of cream or milk tea. No, we can just do it usually with a bit of butter in the pan.

Well, I tell you, in a little trick, actually one of the best things, you've just a bit of water. A bit of water. You've been watering it. Well, what's the use of it? What's the use of it? The dairy sort of helps, and the dairy sort of affects the yolks or something. Someone, someone says something, I think. So, put a bit of water in there. So, put a bit of water in there Someone someone says I'm sure I think a lot of it.

So put a bit of water in the mat press to know this from mat press to He's not a chef that was he's a critic Yeah, but he obviously loves the meals Yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean if met press and such but water and eggs He's not a chef Listen, I don't know Matt Preston. I was wondering if I could ask another question. If you can make a sort of funny question,

something about one of the songs. I think it's pretty funny. I think it's really important that it's funny. Yeah. So I'm sort of trying to shoehorn this sort of screen but I can't wait as much as I I can but anything that would sort of lead neatly to where I would turn it to a comedy podcast. Yeah, you know, it's a little greatly pretty because I'm Peter Jackson on director I may get back. When I'm

Paul McCartney I was in Little Band and you might have heard of it all the been Peter, we've heard a lot from the Writers Guild of America about the death of the showrunner. Between this work, which was originally going to be a film and then evolved into a television series famously, eight hours of footage, you couldn't cut it down anymore and Twin Peaks the Return. We're seeing a lot of filmmakers moving into the television form but but but but but bringing their processes um now i just wondered if you had any thoughts on that if you've talked to anyone at the writers guild of america about showrunners and and your place in in this blurring of the lines between film and television oh my god

yes it's an interesting question obviously the Hollywood's evolving Yes, it's an interesting question. Obviously, we're all the words of evolving, evolving community and the way we make things in the opposite of changes. So, it depends on the project we find. Yeah, if it shows us, obviously, a place with TV series. That's funny. That's a funny question. Sorry, Peter. I think it's a project to project question and predicament. Obviously with Get Back it was almost the show round of that obviously just trawling through this fascinating footage of the Beatles

in the late six. It's sorry to interject that. Well, you weren't the show runner in the sense that the WGA writers Guild of America would consider a show runner in the instance of that. No, that's right. And that's right, please. Now, I was a bit... ...spirited truly. It's ours across the project more than anyone. That kind of is the role of a showrunner. I think it's a project...

I sort of think it's a project project base. Paul, you've been in the music industry now for over 70, 60, 70 years, I believe. You have seen your fair share of technological changes from the record to the compact disc, now to the short, that burst of songs on TikTok. I wonder if you could talk to changes in technology have affected the creative process, also in relation obviously to high frame rate with the Hobbit, and if you wanted to interject better.

I'm sure anyone asked some of the question about an old Beatles song, maybe, in sort of what the original lyrics were. That's what we call a silly thing. Yeah, well maybe like, why would the Hobbit's feet a silly yeah or maybe like why would the hobbits feel how'd you get the hobbits feet like that or you know why was the white album called the white album you know something about you know it's a story I just don't think it's on my character to make this funny. Paul? When I suppose um you know, change things.

I, you know, what's the thing about the music in industry is some. So it's notes. It's very similar sort of scrambled eggs on toast. If you think about it, think about it. Sometimes I wake up in the morning and make myself in breakfast, because it makes scrambled eggs on toast. And that's a big inspiration for me. Peter? Yeah sure. Oh sure we're just going to cut to an ad break now and coming up after that we'll more from Peter Jackson and

Paul McCartney on the Hollywood Reporter podcast. Welcome back. Peter, we were just talking about technological changes. You famously attempted to use high frame rate on the hobbit. Even your good friend and collaborator James Cameron said that perhaps it was not done in the best way. Do you still stand by that technology? Any thoughts on that? You're high-fram rates an interesting one. It's interesting because obviously S-Filmmakers and as we feel like we're almost the great guardians of the film industry, it's a lover of film for my entire life. I think we have to respect where it's been, but also at the same time, exploring where it can go.

And I think James, particularly good at that James Cameron, see how long a film can be. And obviously with his technology, advancement technologies, also at Willingtonton with Avatar and his Avatar franchise. For me, the Fire Framework was an exploration, exploration if what we can do there, and I think a lot of technology growth has come from that. And I think we'll always continue to explore.

I think they shall not grow old and get back or also in the retouching and re- RETouching work. I just thought he was going to bring the phallus. I just hope he keeps going so I don't have to... James, you put the gears in fart noises? Are you sure? Maybe we fart. Maybe we both have gas also. Maybe we both have scrambled eggs before. We we both had scrammed the legs before.

We just do fights underhand, we do some fights. Paul. I'm sure you don't have any thoughts on high frame rate. Paul, we talked a little bit about it, that exploration, the scene in the, that has gone viral across multiple platforms, the scene where you're finding a song. It's quite confronting to us, having known that song most about lives. Music has that play, has that sense of exploration. I was wondering if you've talked to Peter at all about how he finds that play and exploration in the much more broader collaborative framework and film.

Like, gig. Excuse me. I must have been in the screenroom days. I hope you're doing that. That helps. I don't know. Well, you know, collaboration and artistic collaboration. What, I just did not like, do you want me to ask about your question?

I mean, we need to find a way. Maybe find a way for this to be funny at some point. Yeah, there's so far I've been a little drab. It's pretty quiet to see a conversation with your characters. And we're not actually the people. And that's pretty good for me. If you want to have a genuine conversation with people, it's probably out there for both of them.

I think Paul's been quite present in the media for his career. Yeah, it's her vibe. That was the other thing. I'm literally, this character I'm doing is based entirely off Peter Jackson going on WTF with Mark Maren. Yeah. So these conversations are out there. So for us to put the s out into a into a world and there's a point of difference. The yesterday thing is, is real, original

lyrics yesterday, something about scrambled eggs and I just thought of it before I knew sort of, you know, every song from sort of the Beatles was, you know, about scrambled eggs. But that's, it's hard to sort of Get into that when you're asking me about genuine question. How how digital music is sort of Change the You know, I guess I have some Some knowledge of it and some understanding but there are smarter people from from the music world Out there Well, I'm a heightened character likes to talk about scrambled eggs smarter people from the music world out there who have done it. You're asking questions.

Well, I'm a heightened character who likes to talk about swamble day. And I'm just genuinely pager Jackson. You're asking questions that you genuinely want the answer from these real people. Yes. Well, no, well, so you're trying to sort of talk to me. But I don't, I don't, me, Zack. I don't, I mean, I broadly know their opinions on a lot of these questions. What I'm going for is the vibe of, you know, of a, of a, of a journal.

But you know what this podcast, you know, this podcast, what it's here for, don't you, it's just laughter and comedy. Yeah. But you have to understand from my perspective, you both brought the offer, you brought the offer of playing Peter Jackson, you after tossing up between Peter Jackson and George Lucas brought the offer of between Paul McCartney and George Lucas brought the offer of Paul McCartney. And I was asked to bring a framework. My understanding was that all I needed to do was to play a serious journalist, give you the framework because I was under the impression you had jokes.

Well, they've got the fart man. We got the fart man. Excuse me, I did a fart. So that's fine, good. I did a fart. Maybe try and take your serious questions and frame them through a lens that were there for someone who really just talks

about squirming the big. That's great. And I can use that, but I don't know. Because I think the biggest issue here is both you and I are going for direct recreation of what we're parenting. Do you understand? Yeah.

Absolutely. But what I would posit is potentially what if occasionally we just do this and then a fart comes in and when the happens you have to say excuse me a fart. I think that's pretty good. Okay, yeah, we can try that. Excuse me a fart. Oh, I was at you. Yeah.

Nice, all that was me. Right. So now we're getting somewhere. This is good. Excuse me. Hi, Simon. Great. That's nice is really good Peter on two separate high-profile occasions. You've had two part ways with with an actor After the the production process has started first with a arrogant in Lord of the Rings And then later. Who did I fight? I thought you would know Townsend, the actor for a...

Pete Townsend. Pete, no, no, no. Stuart Townsend? Stuart Townsend? I thought you would know. I'm so sorry, I should know this. I can look it up. Stuart Townsend. Oh, Lord. Oh, excuse me, sorry, I can look it up. Stuart Townsend, I believe. Oh, glory. Oh, excuse me, sorry, I fired it. It's good.

He was in, he was in, he was in, Yeah, no, Tencent Austin. Yeah, it's hard to play, it's hard to fire a gourd. A month into filming, you parted ways with Stuart Townsend. So I'd like to give you this.

I'm in the thing going Mortensen to a green book with a part, place him with Vigo Mortensen and then a two-mider. You moved on, you are throwing gozzling to step down from the lovely bones replacing him with Mark Wahlberg, after he'd gained a lot of weight. I just wanted to know what that's like, how those conversations play out. I know this is probably quite personal, but when you make that decision and realize that it's not going to work, how do you have that conversation with an actor?

Oh, it's heartbreaking. Excuse me, I farted. It's absolutely heartbreaking. That was good, actually. It's absolutely heartbreaking. We're to get along. You've built this whole world with this character, you invested both the actor and the filmmakers

have invested a lot of time, and it's absolutely heartbreaking, but what would be worse is going ahead and making a film that doesn't quite hit and isn't working for both the actor, the audience and the filmmaker. So this gives me a far... Yeah, this is important questions, and it's not enjoyable, but it's part of being a filmmaker. Do you think there's responsibility on your part for making better choices? For it to have happened twice is

quite interesting, but you know I'm just curious. Yeah, excuse me. Sorry that was me. Yeah, I did fart there. No, it's easy. I love firing people. Okay, sure. Paul, can we talk about the end of the Beatles? I know this is a topic you've covered a lot. Was there still contact with John before he was killed? Sorry about that. I just seemed to have done a far. You know, yes, there was quite famously. I went and visited him in the hotel in New York when he was staying with Yoko.

And... Oh no. Which other one would it be? Not Yoko from Negg. I thought one thing, Yoko, I guess. No, Yoko, oh no. Oh yes, it was her twin sister. And, you know, we got together, we had a little jam.

We had a little, I went up and he had a strawberry on my face. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like a band thing. This is good. The J thing, we said this thing. But I went up and I spoke to him and had a good time and spoken for a number of years. And then I went into the lobby the next day

of brought my guitar. And I was phone him up and he said, Paul, you can't just come around like this. Whenever you want, I have a family and I was sort of standing in the lobby with that guitar. And then I left sort of down Trotten and was quite sad and a few days later, so I'm in Trotten and I'm in that very lobby. Sorry, I'm fired. You have to excuse me.

So, I do understand this is probably still quiet. It's quite finished. Yeah. Is that real? Did that really happen? He went back and John then told him to fuck off. Yeah. Yeah, that happened. So, um, but you know, it was John that won a then the beat was we were all very happy. We were all very excited. We signed a 10, uh, 10 contract, 10 album deal with Apple and, uh, we were all talking about the future of the Beatles, and then, but there was nothing in that contract that said, it had to be Beatles,

you know, so that we all took that and did solo albums. But it was John that he said, no, I've had enough, I want to go right imagine. Which, oh, excuse me, I did a little too to them. The fans have saved this in my opinion. Yeah, it's good. Pete, I could ask a funny question. Yes.

Do you want me to try a funny question? Yeah, please. A funny question, please. Peter, we just heard a little bit about the 10 contract deal. It makes me think about the fact that there is a business to what we do. You know, it is the film business. Here it comes. Kilo Modeltoro was originally going to direct

the Hobbit trilogy when he had to drop out, just big due to the lawsuit stragging out the process. You did have to step in as a director. And it's quite known from various sources that you didn't want to direct that film, but you had to do it in order to maintain the project as a producer. So I'm wondering if you could talk through that and what process did you use or find in order to find that creative spark in a decision that was clearly led by business. I am so sorry about that. I had too many beans for lunch. Oh, excuse me, I did a fart as well. Well, the hobbit.

Well, the hobbit. Give him a round of roll. Is he gonna write that? Is he gonna direct it? Then he couldn't and then I did it. And I, excuse me, I've just farted at my bottom. But I didn't want to do it. I have just farted at my bottom. But I didn't want to do it. Yeah.

But then I thought, oh, fuck, I'll do it. And then I enjoyed it. But people didn't like it. Because it wasn't necessarily, it wasn't needed. But it didn't need to be three films. No, it should have been one. Or none. One or...

What drove that decision to make you into three films? Oh, money. Oh, very frank answer. or none. What drove that decision to make you the three-filled? Money. Oh, very frank answer. Mm-hmm. Paul is all around. I'm kind of just sitting on a toilet. I mean, that fart and poo came out of my bottle into the water of the toilet. I appreciate it.

It's not like talking about that. When I have no boundaries, so I'm very happy. Is it part of your creativity to find that you can, that lack of the ability to just take shit and toilet. Is that what you can pick up a guitar and play it right? Get back like that. No. Paul, there's been a lot of talk online and now in traditional media, you're about to be funny. Yeah, yeah, this will be a very funny question about the depot, baby.

Your daughter, famously is a very established fashion designer. Which is not a Nepalese. Oh, sorry. Seems I've done a little fard. I'm so sorry. I, um, I don't have it in me. That's a rotten get it. I can't understand. Did you guys want to go to the shops?

Oh yeah, I'd love to get some barbecue shapes. Yeah, I've checked the fridge. I'm all out of eggs. Check the fridge, you're all out of eggs. I've checked the fridge and I'm all out of eggs and I need those eggs to inspire my lyrics. I think you put on the side of this, look at the video for Holly reported, like that called Jazazzy music You can put that just through it like in little bits of it just like it's cutting to shots of us posing on a couch You know those ones Grumb digs you're in my

I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not.

I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not.

I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. was the pillar with which we held this podcast for 15 minutes.

How did that feel, Mark? So it makes me questions a lot of choices about or just doubt my own ability. Listen, I'm getting the signal from the publicist now. I think I do have to wrap this up. Oh, sorry, sorry about that. Save the dying little toot. I just wanna thank you both.

I've been a huge fan of your work. Since I was a child, I used to connect with my father over the music poll. So thank you so much for coming on. It's a real honor. Move. And Peter, ever since I saw, ever since I saw Heavenly Creatures at Sundance Film Festival, I've been a huge fan of your life. Oh, thank you, heavenly creatures of Sundance, film festival.

I've been a huge fan of you. Oh, thank you, yes. Have you seen, they show not grow old. Yeah, what's about half of it on a plane? Peter, Paul. Thank you so much for joining us. Pleasure, absolutely. Next week we'll be talking to Timothy Shammelay and Shalamay. Shalamay and Shalamay.

Next week we'll be talking to Timothy Shalamay and Brendan Fraser about art, comedy and trauma. It's a powerful podcast. Join us next week on the Hollywood Reporter Podcast, Peter Paul. Thank you so much. You've been listening to the Antidona Podcast. Thanks for joining us for another rip-apisode brought to you by AntidonaClub.com. See you next week! Listen up.