Bachelor Happy Hour - 'After The Final Rose' Part 1 with Topher Grace & Aven

Episode Date: September 14, 2022

It’s "The Bachelorette: After the Final Rose" part one! Becca and Michelle are unpacking everything that happened during part one and the dramatic breakups that took place. Then, they're joined by TV star and Bachelor superfan Topher Grace for a convo all about what went down this season, what really goes on behind the scenes of "The Bachelorette," and his new show "Home Economics" on ABC.  Plus, Aven stops by to talk about his emotional goodbye to Rachel in Mexico and how it really felt to see her again. Don’t forget to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode.See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denials easier.

Complex problem solving takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the. iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Eumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD...

Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search emergency intercom, and listen now. Hi, I'm Jenna Lopez, and in the new season of The Overcomfit Podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable, and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life?

Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? Join me for conversations about healing and growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Listen to the new season of the Overcombered podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back. Happy Hour listeners. I'm Becky Kufrin. And I'm Michelle Young. And we are so thrilled to be back this week because, oh, man alive. Oh, I don't even want to say a lot. So much happened during this finale. And like, what? Like, I'm. How are you feeling right now, Michelle? That was a lot to take in.

I'm feeling stressed, and I'm feeling stressed because I know that that was the less dramatic episode between the two parts. So it's finale. It's the finale is the part one of The Bachelorette. I'm happy to be back here. I'm stressed. I'm excited. I can't wait.

There's going to be so much that's going to happen. But I'm here with you, Becca. And we are going to be talking to TV star and Bachel. bachelor fan tofer grace and we finally have avin here oh i cannot wait i always love having a guest fan on and even as somebody that we have been asking for since the beginning and it is finally time because we saw the most out of avon that we've seen this season so i can't wait to have them both on let's just get into everything that went down because holy smoke olies i don't even know where to begin and um michel help me up holy smoke oles i've never honestly i didn't think you could get more

minnesota than you just did holy smoke oly you can take the girl out of minnesota but you can't take the minnesota out of the girl damn right i just it was wild and like i think the most jarring thing for me to watch it's not only like seeing how everything went down a few months ago between both women and their men but like the little box on the screen with their faces in the corner throughout the entire episode

was just like bonkers to me seeing Rachel's face at the end like when Jesse was kind of closing out the show was so much to take in and we obviously know a little bit of what happens and the viewers are getting more you know with that final teaser but like both women only have one

man left. That's really funny that you bring up the little box, especially, like, during these live episodes, is because I honestly check people's expressions all the time, because you can get potentially a really good gauge on just like body

language reading, and you can kind of tell, like, you picked up that there's a lot that happened. Like, there's some raw emotion. I just not sure what it is. Speaking of poker face, I mean, Rachel's was shown for a majority throughout this entire episode and it's like very much stoic but like also looking a little pissed just through it all I don't know it's going to be so interesting to see because

I feel like usually with the finale's it's such a joyous time like for the most part the lead is in love they're with someone and we don't know what happens next week like are there two engagements is there one will there be zero we don't know and that's where it's just going to be a lot to take in okay i have a question to ask you or just an observation do you feel like um do you feel like rachel seemed more relaxed at mentel all than she seemed at this episode or during this episode. 1,000% she seemed more relaxed at

mental all. 1,000% like were you more relaxed at mental all or are you less relaxed at mental because it's like you're kind of in the hot seat you're kind of under fire. I was like pretty relaxed for both

to be honest because like turn out. I didn't really have any like drama with any of the drama that was on my season was with the other guys, not with me like so I wouldn't to both segments like pretty excited and just like ready to do them and move on from them like

I think she I think they both to be honest seemed more relaxed during the tell-all what about you I would I would definitely agree they seemed more relaxed and they just kind of this this episode they just seemed a little more tired but it's also a long road like this is such a long road you know what I mean like yes this season has gone by fast and it's gone by fast for I think

us viewers but as a lead you've been going through it for so long now that it's like they thought they were going to be done last week and now it's like oh just kidding we're going to be splitting it up so you know what I mean it's just like there's a lot happening

being live is like I can't even begin to describe how just like anxiety written it is to like know that everything that you're saying and doing is like live streaming in front of millions of people it's like such a scary thing yeah and then plus like we know a little bit of the teaser of like there's clearly drama with rachel antino who is her last man standing if anyone has lived under a rock this past week i'm sorry but like there's a scandal now coming out with gabby and eric that they're dealing with and i don't even know want to touch that right now

but like there's a lot for these two women and I'm sure at this point they're just like you said tired, exhausted, like ready to move on and be done with it. And I don't blame them. We have to bring on our first guest, Tofer. He and his wife Ashley are self-proclaimed Bachelor Superfan. So we're super excited to have him

and I know he's going to have a lot to say after tonight's episode. He sure is and we're going to go ahead and bring him on. Welcome to Bachelor Happy Hour Tofer. Tofer, we are so excited to have you here i feel like we're all a little bit nervous because we're so pumped not nearly as excited as uh and jealous as my wife is we uh she's the super fan i'm like her um you know like her

co-partner on this but she's like uh you got me hooked originally i love it that's awesome you guys at seasons we thought you guys were great we're really rooting for you guys oh stop you're making us blush. There are ones you kind of do, you root again. I mean, you know what it's like, but there are ones you don't root for, but you guys are awesome. Oh, absolutely. And we definitely want to get into who you're rooting for this season, but we heard a little

rumor. That's like kind of a trick question, but we want no. It truly is, though. It truly is. But as big of fans, we are of you, we have heard that you are also, along with your wife, quite a huge fan. well you know yeah it started where i was like um forced to watch it um won pablo season and i was like what is this like this is terrible and then i got like got into the humor of it and then i remember

my wife like i was on location doing a movie and i was like were you going to watch it tonight or can you just like wait until the weekend like and then i started to realize i was and then she'd be gone out of town and i'd be watching it alone i was like oh no i can't not begin to tell you the amount of men that we meet anywhere, like at the grocery store or on an airplane, and they always blame the wives or the girlfriends or the partners. And I'm like, you are all secretly hooked, though. Oh, yeah.

Men love the show just as much as women. It's not more. You guys, where you get into the contestants, you know, yeah, is that what you call the people who aren't the bachelor, bachelor, bachelorette? Oh, yeah, cast, contestants, yes. The cast, sorry, the cast. Get into their story, and then you're like,

well, how's Michelle going to fly? find love. Like I got to, you know what I mean? I got to follow this next storyline. That's how it hooks you. Always. It always, I feel like it starts with the girl and then eventually you're the one beating her to the couch with the snacks, with the wine, whatever you have like you're the one. I watched alone. I want to ask you this then since you've been watching since Juan Pablo season, since that time, have you had a favorite bachelor or bachelor's? And then have you also had like the one contestant that you still think about that you're like, I wonder what they're doing now. Did they find love?

What's going on in their lives? Okay, great question. But I have to tell you, this is, I should have said this right off the bat. I am so bad with names on the show. Like, I know you guys because you were like, you know, ladies or whatever. Hey, Tofer, my name's Becca. Nice to meet you. No, no, I know.

I'm Michelle. I know. America knows you guys. I like, I literally don't. I wrote down the contest, because I knew I was talking guys, I wrote down the contest. I asked my wife, I was like, who's the guy that, like, you know, whatever. I have, like, different reminders about different guys. I know no one's name and, like, forget them as I'm watching them.

And my wife knows everyone and follows everyone on Instagram and is probably following you guys. You know their face. And you know their intentions. And then you also know the red flags. Yes. That's how that matters. Yeah. Asia got with Zach.

Am I, am I saying? Yes. Yeah. So you know. You know the names. that I went like I mean I probably shouldn't be saying this on your huge podcast but that's the one I like cry at the end I'm so embarrassed did you because you were just so happy that they found each other I really thought it was like like she kind of

wouldn't open up and then he like you know like it seemed like they were like I was like this is real right now and I guess it was but yeah broke up we were really sad about that so what were your thoughts on the part one of the finale tonight because Because, I mean, just for me, you know, and I've watched the show for a while, too, it was crazy to me. Yeah, okay, so I'm looking at my notes. Avin, okay? Mm-hmm. You got it. It seems like a great guy.

Maybe it is going to be The Bachelor. I don't know. You guys are no more than me. But I went like, I thought he just blew it. Like I tried to do that thing where you were trying to be nice and say something that's essentially not what the person wants to hear. and I thought he should have maybe just from a guy's point of view he should have just committed to like

I couldn't like she couldn't like get around it right? Oh yeah there was a lot of poor communication there. What do you think? Okay, if you were him or in his position watching from a guy's perspective what exactly would you have had

would you have had him do differently? Specifically. Probably say the thing that he knows is going to get him kicked off but was the truth right? Which is that he's not ready to be engaged trigger but i here's okay this is what i've always want to ask you guys oh my god i can't believe i'm here okay all right we're ready why not when you're in the fantasy suites i'm sure

everyone you meet wants to know what happens in the fantasy but why don't you just say like all the stuff then like just say look like i'll propose you but it's not going to be a you know real engagement but then we'll get to know each other and then like why does it have to be so like you know you can say anything that night right okay i'm gonna fire a question right back at you. How do you know that we don't talk about that stuff? Because it's not on camera. Because everyone's so messed up about the proposal and it's like

why don't you just say like, look, let's get engaged but it's not like, you know, we'll get like really engaged later, but you know what I mean? I would say that, okay, so I would say my response to this is a lot of times it's not necessarily about the physical ring of it. It's the fact of like

at this point in your life, you going into your relationships, the love that you have found or tried to find, it was either like you weren't enough or it didn't work out or that person couldn't commit and so it's very much so like coming into it and for me it was less about the physical ring and the more about like this is taking a risk and are you willing to commit to somebody so it's more about like the commitment and less about the like engagement proposal proposal proposal you know but in this scenario between rachel and avin he did say i want to leave here with you i do want to continue

this with you. I do see a life with you. I just don't know if it's like the right time for that physical ring. But you should have said that during the the suites, right? Right. Well, and that's where I feel like, I feel like more so in this season. And YouTube, please like tell me if you agree or disagree with this. More so than ever, I feel like this season has been so vague. Like, there's not a lot of context behind the conversations and it's very hard for the viewers to understand. And maybe that's because, I mean, I would just have to chalk it up to the fact that there are two leads and so many extra conversations happening. But I feel like I've never seen a season where there's been so much miscommunication between the contestants and the leads.

Sometimes like, sometimes like editing, right? Yeah. Well, it's hard to know because I, that's what I'm saying. I agree too, Becca. It's hard to know if those conversations are just purely not happening or if we're not seeing them because the time is split between two people, right? Because Rachel would say they had that conversation and they were on the same page about getting engaged until he talked to her family. And he's saying, no, like, I care about you. I'm falling in love with you. I'm just not there yet. So I would have to imagine like, and that's where I really want to have, well, we're going to have Avin on tonight. But I would love to have Rachel also on again to be like, what was actually said in the fantasy suites? Because I agree. Avon like kind of should have been more just kind of pick the lane and said like, look, I'm not willing to. whatever, but also I was like, I had some nightmares from when I was single when she was like, I'm leaving here with a proposal either. I was like, you know, like, isn't it more important who the person is? Yeah. It seems, it seemed to me that Rachel was very zoned in on just the fact of like wanting an engagement, not necessarily what it would take to get there. Like that's,

she was just eye on the prize. I never met anyone like that. A woman like that, yeah. In my Yeah. But you know, Nealane does make some big nice ring, so I don't blame her. I understand the appeal. But, and especially, like, I'm trying to put myself back in her shoes when you're the lead. It's so ingrained in you of like, you know, usually the outcome is an engagement. And you're kind of put up on this pedestal in a way. Becca, your thing at the end. Oh, my God. I mean, I remember watching SNL that weekend. And it was, I mean, I was like, like, America just sat there for 20 minutes, like, what's. going on that was a lot that was a lot I was in that way of nightmares oh

same yeah I was like what the hell's going on too I'm getting all went through that together right man yeah question about the fantasy sweets I have for you guys okay though you tell when you're watching the show who's had sex and not because I'm always like why they being so vague about that like just say like we had sex

they're all like kind of but no one talks about it why are you all so interested okay we're talking about our feelings we're talking about finances we're talking about our feelings okay it's not so much that like it's it's i think it's just because everybody wants to pinpoint that like that's like the juicy thing you know for sure and like like you do you look at the guys you guys and say like like this guy i i want to like try out physically and this guy like will like talk more i don't think you plan it oh come on i'm not over here i was not over here like right like you know what parts of relationship, like, where you're at and everything.

But I would say every lead is different. It's not like I have like, Tover, I don't have like a clipboard here like, I think you did you have three guys in a row there. I will say, though, one of the best parts of being on the show and Michelle, maybe you can contest this, is finding out the actual behind the scenes

from like past seasons of what actually happened with other leads and contestants. Like the shit that I learned about other people, I'm like, oh, my hair should be so big with all the secrets. But like some people's stories are wild But I think everyone goes into it differently I mean you definitely know like certain people

You want to get to open up more right if they spend more I like actually I like more than The Bachelor in that sense Because my wife's always like We've been married long enough that she's like Yeah that's the guy you want to see what's going on Like this guy you can tell him this one she was like Who's the guy? Oh man I'm so bad with the names Was it Zach?

Zach yeah She's like let's talk tonight Like this is going to be more of a chat session let's lay it out there buddy well okay so i want to ask you this in tonight's episode then obviously we saw both sack and even go home a bit early what what were your thoughts do you think it was a bit premature that they were sent home earlier do you kind of understand where rachel was coming from i feel bad because i because i know being on tv i know these people are all people and you start like looking at them like their characters or something um but i thought like uh if

If Zach was my friend, I'd be like, hey, man, like, don't show your full hand so fast because it's kind of like, you know, it's a dance, you know, and I thought maybe early on, that movie date, like, really early on, I was like, leave something for later, man. Oh, I thought it was a done deal. I was shocked when he actually went home. I was like, he's making it to at least top two. He's there till the end. We even had him on our podcast, and I said that.

And now I'm like, oh, shit, foot in mouth, Becca. Crave to go. Okay, you want to know. Yeah, well, they had already been broken up with that. the time but of course like he couldn't say anything so i'm like damn i really put my foot in my mouth so what are your predictions for the final finale part two next week so we're trying to meet into the trailers which my wife does she like looks at the backgrounds and what clothes i mean she's genius at it like what clothes people are wearing she's like that's on the same day

but something i think it's a little bit like your season back over something went on post uh because they're at some other house or something and like I feel like even has a new hairstyle now. Oh, you did see that. Yeah. So what do you think happens? What do you think?

Tino is really confident. And that can be really great in the courtship phase. But as my wife has taught me, it can be something you want to bring down a little bit. I feel like your wife is somebody who you wouldn't want to have in one of those like Bachelorette, what are they called? the not the like those fantasy leagues because she would just win every time oh no she's amazing and by the way i should also give a shout out to katelyn mcgee who is another super fan who plays my sister

on home economics she's like we i don't know if you saw we before we even came on the air we did a if anyone's listening go to youtube it's like my favorite thing we shot it was like a bachelor it's a promo we're basically we're meeting at the show and they're bringing us through like you know like they're putting us on gray's anatomy or they're putting us on dancing with the stars and we're like this isn't what our shows about but then we shot a very long like bachelor spoof and we had so much fun I mean first of all that cast is like the most fun group of people I mean sure was on S&L like you know they really know what they're doing in terms of spoofing stuff but like I mean Sashir has probably been on Bachelor sketches on Saturday Live

but like you know she like ran up and jumped into my arms we did that thing like then we did like the like me throwing the rose off the balcony like I was put off and then Caitlin did the meltdown like they just had a camera you didn't tell the camera guy where she was going so the camera guy looked like one of the guys on the show and I'm like I was like it was the best because then literally the next day we started shooting the show it was the best way to like but she's a super I think Carla had never seen it so they were trying to describe to her what it was but Caitlin went she did the perfect meltdown like the getting down on her knees and like I love this she kept saying It was the best line that she made up.

It was like, I'm just done. You know, like, no, I'm just done. We do have those moments. Why do they say that? No one's ever done with this. It sounds like you nailed it. We all say that we're done, but we never mean it. I'm just done.

I'm just done. I'm over it. Okay, so that's the perfect segue because I do want to ask you about home economics. This promo is incredible. But give us some details around this show. Well, it's the most fun. I've ever had working it's like I mean I was just with them all today at work and just the chemistry with the cast that you know a lot like dating you can't um like when I sign on the show you still

don't know until you all get together and then you know they're so good and they're also just such good people and we just get I just hope this job never ends it's so much fun and uh and this season we we started off going to Disneyland I mean it's like like that's our job it's great so we got to hang out Disneyland for a week and we uh what happens we have a flashback to 2009 which is really it seems like not a long time ago but is really funny and and we find out uh this isn't a spoiler i don't think but we we find out we have another sibling it's about it's all about siblings in this family we find out we have a new sibling who we were shooting with today and um shouldn't say who it is yet but it's it's incredible it's like a very funny way how

we find out we have a sibling and it's incredible really funny i love this i'm excited to check this out Yeah, tell all of the listeners here, like, when night it airs. Obviously, it's on ABC, but nighttime, all of that. So it's on the 21st. So basically anyone who's listening is me watching The Bachelor next Tuesday, right? So then you just watch that time the next day on Wednesday, and that's when we're on. On Wednesdays, I love it. I'm so excited.

This promo sounds incredible. This show sounds right up my alley. So one thing, we know that Drew Barrymore, had interviewed had you on my god this was incredible i obviously have talked about this too much but when you have kids and you only like have like two hours with your wife at night or one hour and you're watching this you go i guess i am a fan now and uh i went on drew barrymore and they were like the producer backstage like just remember you're a bachelor super fan i was like well i probably want to introduce myself like that but but he kept saying it and i didn't know why and uh it was

Oh, my gosh. I'm telling him so bad with names. Who was the pomp for life. Clayton, who Michelle used to date Clayton. So look how. No, Clayton used to date me, okay. Clayne used to date you. Wait, what?

Oh, that's right. Oh, my God, that's right. He got sent home. But he's doing great now. He's thriving now. He's thriving. Clancy. They're the best.

Oh, they're still together. Yeah. Yes. Interesting finale. But he, right, that was. these two girls right that's the whole thing that's they really brought him up a lot this season uh super nice guy but i didn't know i like kind of started the show and she's asking me on i was like yeah i'm into it and she's asking me about him and you know i was telling her my opinion which i thought he actually

did a good job the night before that it aired and i thought it was funny and then uh jesse came out and i was like oh my god like he was like the surprise guest and then they pulled up Clayton, he came, he was like from L.A. or something. I went, what a, I was like, wait, am I going to be the next bachelor? Is that what this is? I have to make a quick call to my wife. But like, hey, can I take a time out for two months? Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I got to leave this show. I say, that's a long haul pass. What do you think? Do you think there's going to be two engagements with both women? Do you think there's going to be one or none? My prediction is zero engagements. Okay.

But I do think they came out with great friends. They did. That is the good problem. I was going to say Rachel and Gabby or the couples. Yeah, Rachel and Gabby, unfortunately. Okay. Who was the guy who was like, my last girlfriend was way hotter than her? Oh, at the beginning?

Yeah, like the villain. Hayden? Love that guy, man. What? He could definitely be the bachelor. I was sitting there like, this guy is maybe the biggest villain I've seen on the show. He's not just, like, you know, Chad or one of those guys was like, just like, I'm going to play a TV villain now or whatever. Like, he was, like, I could tell he didn't know he was being filmed.

Did not like that he didn't show up to that. The tell all thing. Yeah. You got to, you got to show up if you. And then I kind of, I just thought, I don't know, whatever. I went to the, I went to like boarding school. I knew a couple dudes like that. So I want to know coming from somebody who, because it's different from Michelle and I, because we've been through actual.

filming the show so it's a little bit different but for somebody that is just a fan of it watching it do you appreciate when people are that bluntly honest and like shit that Hayden said or does it are you ever like why is this person on the show like where are you at because some people love it and some people absolutely hate yeah guys like hayden to me are the equivalent of like an american idol when someone comes in and they're like check out this song and then they you're like how has no one told this person like they suck You're a grown man. Like, stop singing like this.

It's the same thing. I was like, that stuff like middle school, like in middle school, if I heard my son say like, my last girlfriend isn't, was hotter than her. You go, hey, man, that's not how you, you know, talk about people like that. Okay. So, Tofer, next Bachelor announcement is coming up soon. Who do you think it should be? Oh, great question.

I actually did like Aben. And I know I've given him a little bit of crap, but I think he seemed like a great guy who's just like, I've been in that position where you're like, I really don't want to hurt this person's feelings, but I have something to say that's the opposite of what they want to hear. And I do think he like really wanted to be with her. Oh, the other person I should nominate is Jimmy Tatechro, plays my younger brother on Home Economics. By the way, he is in a relationship, but I think he would be a great bachelor. Jimmy Tate. Are you nominating him and he's in a relationship? Have you met his girlfriend?

Yeah, I go bad about that part. But let's say it shouldn't ever fall apart, but if it should, I think that guy would crush it. Hey, we've had guys come on the show who have had girlfriends in the past, so we're used to it. That's right. By the way, you guys just straight up to have girlfriends, yeah. What are your thoughts about Grandpa John? I think that guy needs a total spinoff just for him. Seems like the coolest dude.

Why have you not hosted a date yet? I, you know, my old pals, Ashton, Mila did it. And we just did a thing together, and I was talking to them. they're doing like a reboot of that 70 show called that 90s show so we were all in it for yes and uh i actually asked them about that because we're all look we're all like you know we were like kids together and now we're all at home with kids and all watching the show my real issue is that my wife would um take it over and i am i am i would love to see it honestly i would join and you know and join them and she would just become the leader

right away is what you're saying that's my fear yeah i love that all right before we have to let you go here we're going to jump into a game quick because like beck said we love our games this one is called rapid fire you're super witty okay so like it's all about speed like you got you got to give it to us right away okay so we're going to ask you a question and then your job is to fire away so i'll start here becca are you in early riser or a night owl I'm definitely not an early riser but I'm learning to be now we have two we actually have one on the way so congrats I'm going to be a early riser I am a forced early riser and now I go to bed much earlier than I used to I love it what is the best stadium advice you've ever received um I guess I was

to be honest I was like going to propose to my wife but hadn't told her obviously and I was kind of telling my mom I mean I didn't really talk to anyone about it and my mom was like I was like yeah maybe like in a year or so my mom was like you should you should do it soon so do it soon is what you're saying okay yeah because she we should have her on the show to tell all the guys to do it soon my wife was way out of my league and my wife was like you might stand a chance if you you know you go soon do it soon I love it can that be our next Instagram. Do it post. Do it soon. By the way, I would say

to Aben, you know, act now. Do it soon. All right, here we go. How do you like your pizza? Pineapple and hamburger. Ooh. A little combo there. Okay. What is your, well, you have to say it and show it. Signature dance move. Okay. Signature dance move.

We have to talk us through while you do it. I'm pretty lame. I don't know if you guys could figure this out, but I was kind of a loser in high school. God, I don't really have one. They just made us do a promo for ABC because our premiere is on the 21st. They had us all dance to the 21st of September.

What's that song? You know, like... Oh, do you remember? Yeah, and they're like, you go first, Toper, like, get in a circle and start dancing. And I was like, I was really nervous. But we actually, not to name check all of our promos.

We did another promo. where they did face replacement so digitally they took our face off of us and put it on like great dancers and I would just encourage anyone to go to that ad right now and check because I'm doing like backflips and stuff so okay we're gonna give credit to you doing some backflips probably me pretending I'm ironically doing the running man and then actually doing the running man yeah I was gonna say this little like robot action where you like hit the arm and then you know I'm not even good enough for that I like what I'm seeing better thank you Dancing with the stars, you want me next?

Sorry, what's that? So dancing with the stars, you want me next? Oh. Take it. Keep going, Michelle. Keep going. What is? This is like, I don't know why this one's my favorite question, but what is your favorite

curse word? I heard you swear on this, Becca. You guys. Oh, yeah, we can curse. Yes. Probably, fuck. But I am trying not to say it in front of these kids we have on the show. are ever present.

I mean, they've now heard it from every cast member so much. You know, you mess up a line. You're like, fuck, I'm so sorry.

Fuck, I said it again. Oh, shit. Crap. God damn it. It keeps popping out. I know. And these kids are like,

it's not shocking us at this point. But we try to, we got to have the swear jar at work or something. They're used to it. Okay, what is your guilty pleasure?

Besides the bachelor. Yeah, I mean, I think this is, we're knee deep in it here. Yeah. Oh, that's probably,

look, we have no time because of having kids so this is definitely it okay i love that uh go to karaoke song uh my shirona oh and if you really want to pull out a win duet of a whole new world oh yeah i want to hear you hit the falsetto in that one and then not only do i i hit those notes but then i also point out from the magic carpet ride you know oh there's the sphinx and there's the great wall and all I'm picturing. When you duet this, are you, like, duetting with somebody or you're singing both parts?

Because I don't know why. I pictured you singing both parts. You definitely sing both parts, don't you? And then like a Jasmine thing. No, no. Very in character. Predating my wife. I want a, like, a karaoke thing at someone's house.

And that was the song that put it over the top. I'm just picturing you if you know you're going to karaoke. You actually bring your own, like, little mini rug rolled up that you just throw on out, roll on out. It's not the Aladdin of it. It's the duet of it because I've also done time of your life from dirty dancing, which is another great, like, you know. Oh, yeah. Classic. Great duet. It is hard to lift yourself up, though, if you don't have somebody else with you. no no i forced the girl to do it yeah i was going to say you also said you're not good at dancing so i don't know if i'd be running at you i'm like i'm like you got me right you got me and i just go to the okay this is going to be our last question for the game because we got to get you out of here

because i know you're a very busy man with your kiddos but what is the current screen saver on your phone oh well it's my kids you know i was going to say it's got to be something good like that yeah i love that okay to over this was so much fun having you on. I'm glad that you are, well, I was going to say a secret bachelor fan, but the secret is no more. Cats out of the bag. Seriously, so nice to meet you. My wife is going to kill me that I got so much time with you and I got to pick your brains, but I'll just make her list in this episode. Tell her we say hi. And after next week, I would love to chat with you both and get your overall thoughts and everything that went down because it's going to be a wild ride. So I'm just going to worry

it out. We watch it the way most people watch sports where you, we were just as bad dating. You don't what I mean? But you act like a pro when you're watching a Olympics. And it's match or something. You're like, I could have got that shot. I'm just picturing you on the couch, like throwing popcorn at the screen or like screaming. Yeah. Well, okay, let us know your thoughts next week because I can't wait to know what everyone's going to be thinking.

But Dover, it was so much fun having you on and great to meet you. And I can't wait. Home Economics Wednesday. It's literally the day after the finale is when we premiere. We go to Disneyland. It's the most fun. You will see the cast having the most fun. any cast has ever had. Awesome.

The 21st, everyone, buckle up. Thank you guys for let me hang. Thanks, Toford. Good to meet you. How are you guys doing? Avin, we are great. How the hell are you? How are you doing? Doing good. Fresh off the TV. Fresh off the stage. Before we even get into this, I have to tell you how bad we have been wanting

you on the podcast. I'm just going to lay it all out there right now. day one since day one but we were so excited i was like we have to have him on i know he's going to be exhausted from this finale and all that you had to do on stage it's a lot but we are so happy we have you i appreciate it i'm here i'm ready to go i love it okay first off how are you doing really after all of that because that was a lot yeah i um the anticipation aspect of it was the craziest part. Like, I was anticipating it all day, and then it just, you know, goes for like 10 minutes. So I'm more good. It was, you know, I was nervous to see her again, you know, up there. I haven't seen her since that night, you know, so. But yeah, got through it and now I'm here.

Since we're jumping into it, I know that, like, all these things happen, right? Like, you're, like, you go through these emotions when it first happens, and then you have this period of time where you stop filming and then you're having that sync in you're processing it and then you start to think about things that you want to say when you know that you're going to see rachel again do you feel like you're able to say everything do you feel like you know what you plan to say that's what came out or like you know a lot of people black out or it's just it goes so fast right yeah it went really fast um you know the questions that jesse asked i tried to answer you know from what i was feeling, you know, at this time, kind of watching it back. I tried to go back to some of those

emotions, some of those feelings, some of those thoughts I was having and re-express those to her. But I think I got like what I wanted to off my chest, hopefully. You know, I definitely wasn't really all the way there up there. I was kind of just like saying what came to mind. So yeah, I think I got, I think I got everything I needed off. What was what was more nerve-wracking? Seeing Rachel for the first time since your breakup or knowing that this conversation was going to have to be on live television in front of millions of people? I would say a little bit of both. I would say seeing her for the first time, extremely nerve-wracking.

And then, yeah, of course, knowing that you're live on television is, I would say it was probably 50-50. But I was more so anticipating, you know, getting up there sitting next to her, seeing her again. And I just wanted it to go well. I wanted our interaction to go well. I wanted the energy to be right. So that was all. Do you feel like you were able to get closure?

Like, do you feel like you got everything out of tonight that you wanted to get out of tonight? Yeah. I think the conversation went well. You know, we were able to kind of have a little bit of a conversation up there. You know, I was like, are you doing okay? You know, I apologize for the way things would happen. She said, I wish you the best, nothing but the best, that kind of stuff. So I think the conversation went how it was supposed to.

I think we both said what was. needed to be said and we can kind of you know take things from there okay even one thing that stuck out to me you know because we're all watching it back and for i would say all of us this is the first time seeing your conversation with rachel towards the end and one thing that stood out to me at least and i think to rachel too because she she brought it up to you specifically during that breakup you you had said something about like being caught up up in in this and i think for me and maybe for michel we can kind of understand a bit where you are coming from when you said those words because we've been in your shoes and you know we've

been contestants and also the lead but to most of the viewers they haven't done this before so they might not quite understand what you meant when you said caught up so i would love to give you the chance to just elaborate on that to shed some light onto that because obviously i know Rachel was kind of caught off guard a bit when that was brought up. For sure. Yeah, I mean, I think in that moment, that was probably not the first choice of words I should have gone with. But, you know, what I was trying to, you know, explain to her is that, you know, we were going through all of these different, you know, dates and we were having all these different conversations and things were just progressing so perfectly with us. And I feel like, you know, me feeling ready that, me feeling like we were ready together to, to, to, to, to,

go through forward with an engagement. I felt, you know, maybe that was coming from a place of being just kind of caught up in all everything. So when I had, you know, that adequate time to kind of sit there, evaluate where I was at, evaluate where our relationship was at. I unfortunately didn't get the chance to talk to her before meeting her family, but I just had some, you know, some time to think about it. And I had some kind of new emotions and some new thoughts that came to how I was feeling. And that's what I expressed to her family. And then unfortunately, I had to, you know, know, talk to her after, but I think, you know, once we had that conversation on the couch in my room after, I think something started to really resonate, she started to understand

where I was coming from a little bit. Unfortunately, she know, she still didn't see that being enough to, you know, want to move forward with me. So, well, I will, I mean, I'm sure people are going to, you're going to get all sides of the gamut in people's thoughts and opinions after this. That's just the nature of this beast. But I can totally understand. where you were coming from it's it's a lot like you separate yourself from your family and friends and normalcy and you put yourself in what is essentially a bubble and you it's easy to get swept up in the lights and the cameras and the most beautiful romantic extravagant dates like so that's why i was saying i can kind of feel where you were coming from and that i just wanted you

to be able to elaborate a bit more and i don't think honestly and people can fault me for saying this and have their own thoughts too but i i don't fault you for saying what you did. Obviously, it did catch her off guard, but I think it was very honest in what you were feeling in that moment. Yeah, you know, I appreciate you saying that. I was just trying to do the best that I could

and, you know, just letting everybody know where I was at. And, you know, it obviously would have worked out better probably for the both of us if I would have gotten the chance to speak to her first because hearing it from her family got from me first was probably the most difficult part for her. If she would have heard it from me first, then, you know, she could have made a decision on whether she wanted me to meet her family or

whatever the case may be. So, but I just went in there. I just have too much respect for, for people's family and for people's feelings to, to go in there and not tell them where I was, where I was at in that moment. So I just tried to do my best to tell them where I was at. And, you know, I had to, you know, of course, communicate that to her after. So it was, it was difficult. I think what's so hard, too, is that it's just being honest like that, especially when you are in an environment where it's it is structured to some extent of you know being vulnerable and it really does challenge you to open up but as quickly as feelings can grow you can also have these uneasy pieces pop up and it is hard that you don't have like all this access to that person that you know talking to and like going outside the mold per se of you know how to handle the situations and even like looking back on it do you do you have any regrets do you wish that you would have been able to you know pull rachel aside or regardless of what was supposed to happen to make sure that you have that conversation

before even walking into talking to her family and just do you feel like you would have still gotten the chance to meet her family if that would have happened? Yeah, you know, I think the biggest regret I do have is just not communicating with her before with any chance that I have, like you said, even that little moment before walking in there,

I could have pulled her aside and said, hey, listen, I just wanted to sit down real quick, let you know where I'm at before we do this. Are you still going to want to go through with this? if I communicate this to you type of thing. So I definitely do regret that. And then I told her out there the same thing, but also just really not thinking about what she wanted

out of all of this was something that I wasn't focusing enough on. You know, the engagement aspect of it was very important to her. I knew that was something that she wanted out of it. And I wasn't kind of making that a priority when I was thinking about myself, which was unfair to her and unfair to us like together, you know what I mean? so I'm curious about this because it was very apparent in your last conversation with her just how much she wanted that engagement right and up until that point you know I kind of just

always assumed like yeah I'm sure that's coming that's what she wants you know this is kind of the name of the game here and why people come on this show but I didn't realize it was like you know such a deal breaker for her and I don't even want to use that word but I'm going to here just for context, such a deal breaker for her. So did you get that sense? And obviously there's so much that you lived through filming that we will never see. So throughout the entire season, did you feel like it was to that extent? Or were you also kind of shocked in that moment of like, oh, this is like, she is 1,010% in

this. Like that is what she came here for. Or was it more of a shock to you in that last conversation? Yeah. I think, you know, I tried to stress in that. last conversation, you know, I wanted to focus on the fact that I, I wasn't giving up on our relationship just because of how, with the way things happened, what she had explained to me. I wanted to continue our relationship and move forward and not fixate so much on the

engagement aspect of it. Like, let's talk about our connection. Are we there yet? Are you there with me? Like, if I were to show up and propose, like, are you going to agree to do that with me? Are we at that point in our relationship? So I tried to, in that conversation, reiterate that to her, not fixate so much on the engagement. So that was tough. I, you know, I definitely had a moment there when we were conversating that because of the engagement aspect that she was kind of just quitting on us, she was giving up on us a little bit and not really giving us a chance to maybe let's take a day and think about it is can we move forward from this? Can we grow from this? Is this something that, you know, that we could do together. And,

you know, that was just a, that was just a big part of it. And I understand where she was coming from. It's not like she wasn't saying it from the beginning, you know what I mean? It's not like she had just said that she was saying that from day one, that that was something that she wanted from this. And I should have taken more accountability and more focus on that, you know, when it came to, you know, communicating to where I was at. I will say, though, I think the biggest part in this process is such a large learning curve. And it's like you always want to stay true to yourself. And even though in this situation, you felt like it wasn't communicated perfectly like that first. time. Even being somebody who is watching it, you did specifically reiterate several times that I know

that I can get there. I just want to make sure that we take our time to get there. So like that was very clear. It wasn't like, oh, I'm just tossing you to the side. You were very much did kind of give some sort of, it's not safety net is not the correct word, but you know, like just confirmation or just validation of I want you. I just, I want to take our time. Yeah, you know, I was fully confident that if we would have continued on the trajectory that we were on away from the show in the real world, whatever the words you want to use, is that we would have gotten to that point. I had no doubt in my mind there. We were on such a good path. Everything that we were doing together, we kept growing and growing, learning more about each other. It felt very natural, even though a lot of the stuff that we did together wasn't shown. But yeah, I felt like we could have gotten to that point. And that's something that I was trying to stress to her. And I think, in that moment she might have said she might have felt like I was because I didn't want an engagement at that specific time

she might have felt like I was giving up on her but that wasn't the case well I mean from both of you you said the words like I want to leave here with you I want to do this life with you it's not like you were like I can't quite get there gotta bounce and on the flip side too when you were saying these things

I don't think there was any love loss like I think there was And that's what's so hard about certain breakups, especially in this environment, is there's still so many what ifs of like she even said, you were the perfect guy. Like it could have been completely different had you just been like, yeah, I'm ready for this. And I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. But watching it back tonight, she made the comment, I think, you know, once you had already left separately where she was like, I saw him at the end of this. Like I saw the life together. And I'm trying to think of like the exact words that she had, but basically saying she saw you and her at the end of that, end of this journey. At one point towards the end, yeah, she saw us being, you know, the end game.

Yeah, exactly. So what was, what was it like than hearing that back and watching that for the first time tonight? I mean, it was, it was tough because, you know, you always, the way things ended between us, you always, you know, it's always the what if, what if I would have did this? What if I would have said that? and hearing her say that, you know, was a little bit of validation of knowing if maybe I would have went in things a different way that, you know, we would have left together. We would have been in a relationship right now, which is tough to hear. But, you know, again, going back to the engagement aspect of it, you know, another thing is I wasn't going to drag her into a proposal that I wasn't 100% invested in at that time. I didn't think that was fair to her.

So I think that had a lot to do with it as well. But that was definitely difficult to hear that at one point. point, you know, she saw us as the finish and that she was thinking about, you know, moving forward outside of all. Yeah. You know, this whole entire journey, you just, I mean, you learn so much even from when you start versus tonight when you end. And if, you know, it doesn't necessarily end how you particularly picture it at one time. But what would you say is the highlight of your journey or what you even learn the most? And then what your low light was. with whatever that is.

Low light and highlight. It's like where do I get? Or you can just do two positives if you want. Yeah, I mean, I definitely think one of the highlights is, you know, going into this whole experience, I was never the kind of person who was like so quick to be like, hey, this is how I feel, this is where I'm at. This is something very personal about myself so early on.

So I think it taught me a lot about how important that is when you're getting to know somebody and trying to build a relationship with someone because if you don't let people know how you're feeling, you're not going to get anywhere. You know what I mean? So I learned that through this. We didn't have many low points. I mean, obviously, that ending, the ending to us was so challenging for me. Even the couple of days in between after meeting her family and anticipating that conversation, that last conversation we had was probably my lowest point. I was upset with myself. I was upset at the situation. I was down. I was stressing about what I was going to say. So I think that was definitely the lowest part

of the whole experience for me was that. Well, now that part has come to an end. I mean, the world is your oyster at this point. There's so many things in your future that I think you have to look forward to. But I just want to know kind of what's next for you. Are you still looking for love? Like, where is your head and your heart at? Yeah, you know, right now, obviously it was a lot getting through this, getting through the ending. But yeah, I'm just kind of, you know, living life right now, doing my own thing, back to work. You know, I live in San Diego. There's a lot of people in San Diego from the friend.

I know. It's sad. There's too many of us. Too many. That's wild, though. I didn't know that. That's awesome. Okay, well, we'll definitely grab drinks. I will send you, do you like wine? I do like wine. Okay. I have my wine line. I'll send you some wine if you want any. I was on Twitter for a little bit tonight, just, you know, seeing what the world had to say about this finale part one. And I mean, a lot of people were there supporting you.

And so I think, like, obviously we didn't see a ton of you throughout the entire season until really this episode, which is unfortunate. But I'm so glad that we were able to finally have you on tonight. Yeah, I'm kind of glad that, you know, we got through it. But yeah, I really appreciate you guys saying that means a lot. We're good at Avan fans. Don't worry. David, it was so fun having you on. Hopefully now you can move on from all of this and start your next chapter.

I mean, hopefully this isn't the last we've seen of you. There's always paradise. And, you know, I'm going to just throw it up there, Aven for Bachelor. We'll see, we'll see. Yep. No, I'm good talking to you guys. I appreciate it.

All right. Well, hang in there. Go celebrate now. Go pop some champagne. I will. Have fun. Okay, well, Michelle, a little two-for-one action tonight with Tofer and Avin.

I know, that was fun. That was good. Such different personalities, which I like. Totally. I'm just so happy. I mean, I obviously love having just guests who are fans on. It's so fun to pick their brain and just get another point of view. But I also am so happy we had Avin because we have been wanting him since the beginning.

Right. He has somebody that caught our eye since the beginning. No. it was it was fun next week is going to be wild town so i'm so glad we're going to actually be together in studio recording the final episode of this season and i can't wait to be with you i'm going to need hold your hand and a glass of wine probably the entire i was going to say bachelor happy hour like emphasis on the happy hour here next week because we are going to have a drink in hand that's the only way we're getting through this i'm going to be i'm going to be little two hands

with the drinks, but I feel like we're going to need it. Oh, absolutely. I know. Make sure you, I mean, make sure you wear your, what does it call the ad? Sweat block. I bring my sweat block. Oh, my God. I'm like sweating, just thinking about it right now. My heart rates are going to be up.

We know too much. Okay, but I'm telling everyone right now, it's going to be a wild final episode. Don't forget to tune in this next Tuesday, not Monday. Don't get it twisted. There's going to be a lot that happens. And in the words of Jesse Palmer, it might just be the most dramatic season finale yet. So on that note, Michelle, I love you. Thank you.

And even bigger, thank you to all of our Bachelor Happy Hour listeners. And also to both Tover and Aven for being here. And everybody, don't forget that you can catch the new but final episode of The Bachelor next Tuesday on ABC or Hulu. And make sure to hit us up on social. You can follow us at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram. And from there, you'll find everything you need to know to follow us on Twitter and TikTok. A Bachelor Happy Hour is available on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen.

And you can always listen, add free by subscribing to Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. Thank you, everyone. And see you next week. See you next Tuesday. Do this thing, just like you said best. Oh, man. Cheers. Yes.

I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denials easier. Complex problem solving takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, my name is Enya Eumanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips.

And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect. And want to hear people with mental illness, psychobabble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeart Radio app.

Search Emergency Intercom. And listen now. Do we really need another podcast with a condescending finance brof trying to tell us how to spend our own money? No thank you. Instead, check out Brown Ambition. Each week, I, your host, Mandy Money, gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel uses. Like on Fridays when I take your questions for the BAQA. Whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic workplace, I got you.

Listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.