Bachelor Happy Hour - Cheating, Patriarchy, and Dating Hot Takes | Golden Hour

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

Today on “Golden Hour,” Kathy and Susan are answering more of your questions! We kick things off with the question of the day: How does patriarchy show up in romantic relationships between men and women? Then, we dive into your questions! From an emotional affair to demanding presents back post-breakup, these situations are sticky and we’re helping you through them. Plus, we end this episode off with Kathy and Susan’s dating hot takes! Tune in now and be sure to subscribe! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hi, it's Joe Interesting, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change. Dance with the breakdowns.

The embodiment of Pisces' intuition with Capricorn power moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my charge. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the IHart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Next Monday, our 2026 IHard podcast awards are happening live at South by Southwest. It's the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeart Radio.

Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific free at Veeps.com or the Veeps app. Ego Woda is your host for the 2026 IHeart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks, Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow S&L alums,

comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks, Dad, with Ego Wodom and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. You know Roald Dahl. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roll Dahl, I'll tell you that story, and much, much more.

What? You probably won't believe it either. Was this before he wrote his stories? I must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Chetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Hillary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platinum artist. You desire in family, like this picture, and that's not reality. My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life.

And I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hour's Golden Hour. Thanks so much for joining us today. As always, we are so excited to be back. And Susan, you know I'm going to ask, how are you doing today? I'm fabulous. I'm in a happy place.

and I'm really psyched about today. You know, it gives me pleasure to read from our fans. They quote, like everything we said on the podcast, there's people out there really paying attention. And I love it. Yeah. I love that people will love. We never disagree, Susan.

Sometimes you're wrong and you have to understand. No, I do. Today, we love it. It's, what are we doing today again? What are we doing? What are we doing here today? We have a lot of fan questions today. So today, not only are we answering more of the fan questions, but these ones are a bit different than the ones we usually get, Kathy.

Okay. We're seeing more of the women being potentially in the wrong. You know what? Wait a second. Let's see about that. I'm just going to say, Susan, you're going to go after him, or are you going to say they're not wrong. I could be or I might say

maybe we shouldn't do those things. I got to say, I think you and I are both equal opportunity offenders. Offenders? Offenders. Like, we're both willing to stand up and say, oh yeah, we're wrong.

I mean, it hasn't happened yet, but if it did. I've admitted wronged this many doubt. It makes me sick to my stomach and then I feel so badly. I want to forgiveness right away because I really didn't mean it. That is so funny you say that because when I'm wrong, I am perfectly willing and able to say I'm wrong. When have you ever been wrong?

Many times. I've never witnessed it myself that you admit it to it at all. Oh, that's not true. I've called you and apologized when I've done things wrong. I have. Like what? Well, I can't remember right now. I don't recall this, but okay.

Well, I'm sorry you don't remember. There you go. Here we go. We're just going to get started with the question of the day, and I'm going to start us off and see if you can remember that answer. Okay. How do you think, oh, this is going to be a tough one, Susan, but here we go. How do you think the patriarchy and sexism makes its way into dating and relationships for straight people?

All right, Kathy, you go first on this one because I'm a little lost. Okay. So, I really am. Patriarchy generally means the male, being the family head of culture. So men make the rules. Right. So sexism can be the same. It's men are better, men are smarter.

Men earn more because they deserve to earn more. Women can't have jobs, can't be on television reporters because they get old, but men can pull up in their, you get it? So that's sexism. You're denied something because of your sexism. you're denied something because of your sex or diminished because of your sex or ruled determined that you are inferior in some way because a male is superior. So given all that, I think that it's culture. I think our culture, I mean, do we really have to need a history lesson here? But it goes back to monarchies to it's always been.

It's saying makes its way into dating and relationships. So let's think about this. If you have two professionals, is that what you're saying? Oh, yeah. I'm saying the man is usually the one that asks the woman out. And it's changing a little bit. But men typically ask the woman out first on a date. Men tend to control or try to control how the date's going to go, how the relationship is going to go.

Because they haven't dated me. Well, that's, we should have said, how do you think the patriarchy and sex makes it way into dating a relationship except for Susan Knowles? But that was not the question of the day. So, but I do think, I do think it makes its way in, because historically, you know, the monarchy, it's always been kings. But then, but it's in society. So, well, that's the point. It brings that it's, it's come through our culture. It's been, you know, ironed into the fabric of our society.

Yes, that's how we were raised. Well, but. But, Daddy did this and Daddy does. And in the 50s, you know, Donna Reed with the apron around her. It's changing. It's a woman's place. It's a woman's place is in the home, you know, and that was the way. So I think, though, that people, modern women today are saying, screw the patriarchy.

Forget it. A lot of times women make more money than some of the men. Yeah, but it's not just about that. It's that, you know, men determine the role. So historically, women have taken care of the children. You got a sick kid? Who's staying home? The mom.

But that is changing. And in the glass ceiling, women have tried for years to break the glass ceiling in terms of income, in terms of promotions, all those things. It has changed dramatically. I would say in the last 20 or 30 years. But I think it still exists. I do. I think it still does. To answer the question, how do you think patriarchy and sexism makes its way into dating and relationships?

How does it make its way in from what we've learned? Because of the history of... That's what I think. I think it's just always been accepted. And I think... Thank you for having me. How many times have we heard Susan? Boys will be boys.

Oh, yes. A man can cheat. Yes, but a man can cheat because, you know, the woman was a bad. Except it more so than if a woman. Well, not in my sphere. But if a woman did, it's taboo. That's patriarchy right there. Oh, my God.

How about like a woman that had sex in high school or whatever and your refutation? But a guy, it's a notch on the belt. That's patriarchy. Yes. That's sexism. You got it right there. So I think it makes its way into dating and relationships because it's been so, it's been ingrained in the fabric of our society.

But I do think it's changing. My daughter and her husband, they have one child right now. And they both have very big jobs. They share the cooking. They share child care. When that child's sick, well, that, the patriarchy is not. It wasn't. It wasn't.

You know, when I grew up. Like you said, there's two professionals in the house. But that's the point. Patriarchy suggests that the male is not only dominant, but more important. His decisions way more. They have more weight because a male made the decision. I say, screw the patriarchy, but maybe that's why I'm single. Maybe the sex is important.

I think they still should take out the trash. Yeah, yeah. I will say, Susan, you actually do, and it's not wrong, but I would say you buy into male dominant and female dominant accepted roles that tradition, I should say traditional roles. When my husband was alive, I took out the trash, he took out. I love to mow the grass. I do too. I like to mow the grass too, yes.

So, yes, my husband would earn more than I. tools and certain things that I just think men are better at than me. That's only because, Susan, my dad taught me things. It's because you didn't learn it. Someone told you. You learned it subconsciously from a very young age that men have tools, tool belts, and men are better with hammers, and women are better with a sewing machine. It's not true.

It's just... I'm better with a hammer than I am with the sewing machine because I do try. I'm a frustrated seamstress and heart. But all right, let's get it. It's time to answer some of our fan questions. Oh, here we go. All right, I'm going to start us off. You ready?

You can knock yourself out. Go. Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men.

Actor. storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom-loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A son and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

Next Monday, our 2026 IHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at South by Southwest. It's the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting. from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeartRadio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome.

Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific free at Veeps.com or the Veeps app. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal.

The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of He Said,

and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. Listen to Love Trapped on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ego Wodda is your host for the 26 IHart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, Ego may have a few father-related.

Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow S&L alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks, Dad, with Ego Wodom and start listening on the free Iheart Radio app today. You know, Roaldol, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG.

But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary,

controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true.

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Doll got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood,

where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to The Secret World of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, please keep this anonymous. I have been with my husband for 13 years, married for five.

Through our dating years, we had our ups and downs of lying and cheating on both ends. I had a hard time committing due to our issues. During one of the times, we were off, I met a guy at work and dated him for about eight months. We broke up because I was 23 and he was going through a custody battle with a his ex-girlfriend, and it all felt like too much to handle. To this day, I regret it. He was the best, and I loved him. He treated me like a princess and would do anything for me. I have often thought about him through the years and wondered if I made a mistake. This is getting juicy. I always went back partially because I did love him, and because I did love him. And because I

I loved his family. Like, I have to interrupt. I have to interrupt. She went back with her husband? I know. I think that's where it is. She went back to her husband. They were doing this when they were off in 2016, so they weren't together.

Yeah, okay. And she started dating this guy, okay. And I always went back partially because I did love him and because I loved his family. I lost my father young and his parents always treated me like their own. We got engaged shortly after my mom. mother passed away since being married to my husband and having two kids, four and two years old, I always think about this guy and still have feelings for him deep down. We still work together. Oh boy. He is married and has kids too and still feels the same way about me. He is not happy in

his marriage and the last two years I haven't been either. We worked from home during COVID till about two and a half years ago. Today, we go into the office a few days a week and we talk more. My marriage currently has been on the rocks. He doesn't show me affection. He works so much I feel like a single parent, doesn't do much around the house, doesn't engage in conversation, etc. I kept this all in for so long that I had a breaking point and now my husband and I are in counseling. I have resentment towards him and just don't know what to do. My ex wants to get divorced. I know I would be happy with him without a doubt.

I feel so guilty about all this and don't know what to do. Did I marry my husband for the wrong reasons? Any thoughts on what to do? Oh, Susan, take it. What do you think? Wow. It's a lot. It's a lot.

Well, you're divorced, so I'm curious. She used the word resentment. And to me, that's the biggest because you can't go back. You never feel the same again once you resent somebody. You can forgive them and you can try and make the marriage work. But deep down inside, I hear this woman. She resents him and she knows she thinks that that other man, first of all, she says we both feel the same. so they're obviously chit-chat.

They're still hooking up, I think. So you're both unhappy. Wait a minute. They're hooking up. You mean they're having sex? You think they are? Oh, let's see. There you go again with that hooking up.

Oh, that's what it means. I didn't. Yeah, I guess. I guess that's what I could mean. But they're still into each other, is what I'm thinking. So what I'm hearing is they're both not happy in their marriages. They both have something that they want about each other.

However, that was the good part just dating him for the eight months. And, you know, he really wasn't yours yet. The same damn thing could happen. If you both get divorced and your kids go through all the hell and you finally get together and you find out he does the same damn thing. Or, you know. You know, okay. So did she, before I jump in here, did you, do you think when she says, did I marry my husband for the wrong reasons? Do you think she did?

I think she liked the family and feeling a part of it since she lost hers. Maybe, maybe, but it's okay. You did it and you have two beautiful kids and you're both going to love them forever. But be true to yourself because you won't be happy. And to stay miserable and unhappy, the other partner feels it too. Okay. So I'm going to take a little bit different tact, shocker. at this point, it doesn't matter if she married her husband for the wrong reasons.

I have a philosophy, and I've told you this before, Susan, I think oftentimes when marriages, quote, unquote, go on the rocks, both parties go into counseling because they are. Which they are, because they see it as a required step to take before you give up. before you. And many of my friends did this, and they admit to me later, I knew I went. At the time, I thought I would work. But I really knew deep down, I was going to counseling so that I could say post facto. I tried. I tried.

I went to counseling. I think that's where this falls in, I think this falls into that category. I don't really care anonymous if you married your husband for the wrong reasons. As Susan said, you have two children. I don't think, I'm not reading that you have the impetus, that you have the desire to really do the work to bring your marriage back from the rocks. Obviously, if you can do that, and I disagree with you, Susan, I think you can let go of resentment. I think it takes a lot of work. I don't know whether she's willing to do it.

I think it's also very difficult to work in the workplace with the guy you have the hots for. and you're chit-chatting with them. So you are continuing the behavior that got you where you are. So if you really want, my thought is when you say, what should you do? If you really want to make a go of the marriage, I would tell you, cut it off with him, change jobs. Delete him from your phone. Change jobs.

Don't see him. Don't talk to him because there can never be three in a marriage. And right now, you have three. a marriage. And it's immaterial to me whether the other guy wants to divorce his wife. Immaterial. If you want your marriage, if you want to give it a go, but I don't send she does. But if you do, you got to take some hard steps here. I'm a little confused when she says, I have resentment towards him and just don't know what to do. My ex wants to get divorce.

The ex is the guy that she had the affair with. I believe. Oh, yes, the guy that she had the affair with wants to divorce his wife. I think that's who she's referring to. And she says, I know I would be happy with him without a doubt. But she does, to your point, Susan, she doesn't know. With all due respect, Anonymous, I know you're in a tough spot and my heart goes out to you. But Susan's right. All you know is the infatuation, the great sex, the fabulous late night phone calls. You don't know what it's going to be with her kids, your kids, the conversations, the conversations when he starts doing nothing around the house or whatever the issues are in your current marriage, Susan and I can safely assure you you will have issues with the second guy.

Is it going to be a fairy tale? No. You may love him and it could work out if you get together, but what should you do? It's up to you, sweetie. You either want to really work on your marriage that you have, in which case, don't just say I'm in counseling. You have to change jobs and delete this man from your life because, as I just said, there's never three in a marriage. And also, do yourself a favor. If this marriage isn't working, you don't jump into another man's arms. You've got to be alone. You got to figure out who you are, what you want. You don't go from the pot to the fire. I think it can work. That's why I'm saying she might have this might be the love story of the age. Yes, that's true. My father and stepmother had a had the love story of the ages when my father was

divorced. He met my stepmom. They were married within a year and they had 40 years of bliss. Then maybe she should go with it then. Only she knows. Only she knows. Anonymous, thank you so much for sharing so much with us. No, I really, I'm, I'm, I understand the word resentment, and I know where you're coming from. Yeah. I mean, and like Kathy said, she says it is possible. Maybe it is. I just never found that.

Yeah. Well, and I didn't have to live. Right. And one of the thing I want to say, before we move on, Anonymous, whatever you decide, please be cognizant of your children and what they're going to go through. Because kids didn't ask to be born, and they didn't ask for this Michigas. So whatever it is, see if you can work it out. But in the same breath, don't stay because of the kids.

Fair, absolutely. Well, let us know. We want to know. Thank you. We wish you the best. We really do. Let us know what happens. And we wish you all the best.

Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom-loving and different perspectives, and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood. A son and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want to chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Next Monday, our 2026 IHeart Podcast Awards are happening live at South by Southwest. It's the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the.

the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeartRadio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific free at veeps.com or the

Veeps app. I'm Clayton Eckerd, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines. It began as a one-night stand and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal.

The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. Please search warrant. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of He Said She Said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies.

Listen to Love Trapped on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. EgoWoda is your host for the 2026 IHeart Podcast Awards, live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom. Ego may have a few father-related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny, heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow S&L alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully

complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Wodom and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. Hey, I'm Jay Chetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Hillary Duff, singer, actress, and multi-platnamartner. Hillary opens up about complicated family dynamics, motherhood, and releasing our first record in over 10 years. We talk about what it's taken to grow up in the entertainment industry and stay grounded through every chapter.

It's a raw and honest conversation about identity, evolution, and building a life that truly matters. You desire in family like this picture and that's not reality a lot of the time is for people. My sister and I don't speak. It's definitely a very painful part of my life. And I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so, ready to move on to the next question. Here we go.

The second question is from Renee. She's 65 years old. Hi, ladies. I need to know if I was in the wrong for this. this post-breakup move. I was dating a guy for 11 months. He was very generous to me while dating. I, however, always struggled through this relationship. It was like I wasn't feeling how I was supposed to during the relationship. Unfortunately, we ended up breaking up, and here's how it sort of played out. He had shoulder surgery on my birthday, and I went over to take care of him.

while I was there, he ended up giving me a check for my birthday gift. I won't get into the details, but one thing led to another, and we ended up breaking up before I even got home that night. Once I did get home, he messaged me asking for things he gave me back. I sent them, thinking he was a bit out of line, but wanted to just be done with it. I then decided to deposit the check that he had given me for my birthday. He came unglued, asking for money back, calling me a girl. gold digger and many other horrible names. I did not return the money. Needless to say, I have no

contact with him anymore. His true colors came out. Oh, I forgot to mention. He had lied about his age from the get-go, saying he was 64 when he was really 69. I'm 65. What are your thoughts? Was I in the wrong? Susan, I'm going to let you handle this first. I just have to say, nothing about his age matters. Who cares? 65, 69. So let's just leave that out of the mix because to me that doesn't matter. Well, first of all, I'm wondering what she wasn't feeling.

Like in the beginning when she said something was missing, obviously. He decides to get surgery on her birthday. And she gives up that day to celebrate herself and goes and takes care of him. That's what you do for the person you're in a relationship with. Yes. And that's great. but he gives her a check so he had no thought prior to what can I give her for the birthday. You write a check last minute because you're not prepared.

You had nothing. And now he wants it back. Go screw yourself. No. Susan, what do you really think? I think he's shit. That's what I think. And he lies.

Whoa. Whoa. This is hitting close to home. And I hope that surgery hurt. So, so here's. I'm all with you, Renai. You did nothing wrong. think. Here's what I think. Susan, you and I both know people who have been given gifts early on in a

relationship who'd return the gift. And, you know, we both had different thoughts on it. I thought you did the right thing. Whatever. Here, this is a different situation. Renee, you were with this man for 11 months. Whatever you were feeling or not feeling. If you were giving it a go, you weren't giving it a go. I don't know. You didn't know how you were supposed to be feeling. All of it said, you stayed with him for 11 months. At least that's the way this reads. So you were with him 11 months. You did go over on your birthday. We don't know, Susan. Maybe he was in excruciating pain.

Maybe he'd fallen. The birthday's coming the same day. Before surgery, you plan that. Hold on. I'm just saying, I'm trying to give the guy some grace here. Maybe it was an emergency surgery. I don't know. Here's where I will go.

Maybe you're right. Maybe he gave no thought. Okay, not great. But I, believe it or not, I would absolutely have kept the birthday check and called it nursing hours fees. But secondly, I would not have sent back the things he had given me. When you give someone gifts and you've been dating, and I will tell you, Susan, you don't know, another Kathy story that you don't know. You know the guy who shall remain nameless that I dated for 10 months, the guy that wanted me to move in with him? Yes.

He gave me an incredibly expensive tennis racket because he knew I had played tennis. He wanted to start playing again. He gave me this really, really nice racket. And when we broke up, he asked me for the racket back. And you know what I said? He did. And do you know what I? What do you think I said?

Why? Why? It's a gift. No, why would I give it back to you? You gave it to me as a gift and it's mine. Oh, my God. I love you. It's exactly what I said to him. I said, I'm sorry, so-and-so. So why? So you give it somebody else? I mean. You know what? I gave it to my daughter. She plays with it.

Because he and I were going to take back up tennis. But that's not the point. The point was he gave me a gift. And I gave him some gifts. And when I broke up with him, which is what happened, I didn't say, by the way, I want back these pillows. I gave you these. ever take anything back. I would. Some women, when they're asked that they're so angry or upset, they don't want things that remind them of him. But don't give it back to him. Listen, I have a friend who dated.

Give it away. Yeah. I have a friend who dated, and again, no names mentioned, because you know this person. She lives here. She dated a very wealthy guy. He bought her Louis Vuitton handbags, Chloe handbags. You know, very expensive designer stuff. Jewelry from Tiffany's.

Really nice thing. things. I hope she sold it. She sold every bit of it and pocketed the money. She didn't give it back to him. No. So I think Renee, I don't care about his age. When somebody goes that loud, give me it back. Obviously, he's hurting. He's angry. Yeah. You're showing your true colors, just like Renee said. Yep. So Renee, here's Susan's and my advice. Move on and go find yourself a nice guy. I don't care what age he is. Would you agree, Susan? Yes, most definitely. Most definitely. I don't wait.

Do you think... But I'm upset about the birthday. How dare you write me a check? A jack. But here's the thing. We started this whole podcast, this episode, talking about women potentially in the wrong. She's not in the wrong.

I don't think she is either. I don't think so. And I think... Unless, although she said they broke up before she even got to the house. Was it her doing it? No, no, no. While they were there, they broke up at the house. One thing led to another while she was at the house taking care of him, and they broke up.

So, he'd obviously- Do you think maybe she perhaps said, you're writing me a check for my birthday? Do you think that was part of it? I mean, we're guessing. I mean, I would say to you, does it matter? I mean, really, does it matter? Whatever it was, she didn't. Was it over the birthday check?

Maybe, but I'm saying, does it matter? how or why they broke up. I'm saying I don't think that Renee is in the wrong here at all. And in fact, I would have kept all the things. So I think she's in the wrong for not keeping them for sending them back. Well, she might have been like I said, you don't want any parts of him. So give it back. So give it, donate it then. Don't give it to him. Yeah. And then the other, the other anonymous question, you know, we've talked about that. I don't think necessarily, uh, it's, I don't think it's our job to judge right and wrong as much as it is to have people reflect and see what is the best way in or out of the situation they're in.

And how to handle it. Yeah. I mean, that's what I think. And keeping your grace, you know, you just, you respect yourself. You don't want to act out in a fit of whatever that moment is. Always. Just breathe. Always.

Always. Always. Always. and think. Always, always. Forget the patriarchy. Always go out as a lady. That has nothing to do with male domination. Always, whatever you do, do it with grace. Yes. Right? Oh, God, yes. I mean, I've learned the hard way. What do you mean? I've been angry and I raise my voice. I'm Italian. I scream and holler and I start thinking about all the things that hurt me, and they all came out at once. I don't know if maybe it was a treat that my dad would hold things in for like six months.

And when we were in trouble, he'd bring up everything you did for the last six months. Oh, shit, I'm going to get beat. That's when you go to your room and hide yourself under the bed. But I will say, I will say, I think there's one, back to the, our questions from today. I think there is one common denominator. nominator here. And that is the emotional, what do I want to say? The emotional value, the emotional quotient of a relationship and the physical. In our first question, the emotional turmoil she's going through, she clearly has cheated. Or I shouldn't say clearly, but it suggests

that she has, when they were broken up, when she was separated, whatever. And I think that is a whole different kind of relationship. Do you still think it's cheating if it was an emotional relationship? That's what I'm saying. Some people argue that point. That's what I'm saying. I don't think it is the same as physical cheating, but I think the results often can be the same.

I think you leave, many people leave a relationship. They get into an emotional relationship with someone or they, even if it's imagined, you know. and so somebody listens to them and they right so they they sort of maybe inadvertently maybe consciously depart from the from the other relationship they're in so i think the i think the fallout can be the same i think the fall can be same i know so many people that i've read or stories that the man gets caught cheating but he never slept with them but it was more of an emotional thing and they kissed once. The wife still thinks that's cheating, but he was more relying on her and talking with her

and things. That was an emotional affair. But that's, but again, it suggests that he and his partner are missing something. Are missing something in there. And that's what I think Renee was getting at with him, that there was a lot missing. And she couldn't quite feel it. In the first one, in the anonymous question, I think there's more, I think there's physical and emotional, something not being met in her marriage. And I think it's pretty far down the road. And as I said earlier in this episode, it is going to take a lot of work to if she wants to. So you know what? He doesn't want to either so. So you know what I say? Don't cheat. I hope that the other one, I hope that the other guy, if he's not happy either, that those two can get together and it's a fairy tale love. Oh.

We all hope that. I'm leaving fairy tale. Oh, Susan, the fairy tale queen. All right, move along. Move along. What's next here? All right, before we end this episode, Kathy, we're going to switch off,

giving you guys some of our dating and relationship hot takes. Oh, boy. We'll give you our hot take and discuss it. And you're going to start it all. Oh, no, you are big girl. Go for it. What's your first one? The very first date, if you know you don't want to see him again, I don't expect him to pay for the bill.

I would always contribute. I actually agree with you. Totally 100%. Because you know you're not going to. And the man that demands absolutely no way, I admire that. Okay, what about the, all right, I agree. All right, moving on, I've got one for you. Okay.

You agree or disagree. My hot take is women should feel free to text back right away if they've had a great date or you've met somebody. Absolutely. And don't be afraid to be the first one. Yeah. I mean, it's hard for me, but I think you should feel free to do it. I just have to know when to not, you know, because I'm like, oh, yeah, it's my new friend. Blowing them up.

It's like, oh, no, Susan. If it's not answering right away, there's a reason. I love it. All right, I got another one. I want your opinion on this one. Men should always pick up the date wherever. In other words, it shouldn't be, hey, I'd like to go out with you. Meet me at Joe's bar at 6 p.m.

I think a man should always offer to pick a woman up. What do you think? I do as well, except for certain circumstances. If you're just meeting, I prefer to drive myself so I know I could leave. Do you mean a first meeting? Yes. No, no, no. I agree with that.

No, I'm saying in general, how do you feel? Perhaps they work in the city and, you know, it'll be eight o'clock by the time you could get out. There's moments that'll say, you want to just meet me there, babe. Yes, but as a rule, as a rule, a man should pick you up for you. Okay. Yes. You got another one? When dating, yes.

Okay. I think that a man should respect the people waiting on them. Do you mean servers at a restaurant? Yes, ma'am. Oh, honey, bunny, whether it's the movie theater. Yes, well. Oh, that goes without saying. There's a lot of people that will allow.

That's a red flag all the way. Also, I think a man should open the car door. Always. Always. And if you're a perfect lady and you like them a lot, You reach over after he shuts your door and try to get his open for him. I did that for Fred and he noticed. Can I tell you that Ned, my friend who lives out in California, who you're going to meet actually,

he always opens, and we're not dating, but he always opens the car door for me. And I'm thinking that man was trained well. It means a lot to me, even though we're not dating. Me too. It means a lot. Okay, I got one more. I got one more. I got one too.

Go ahead. All right. Women, I don't think this, but I've heard it said by men and women. How do you feel about men, sorry, women should plan most of the dates? No. But we have to if you want to do stuff that you want to do. Men aren't good at it. Some men. I disagree. Ed is a cop out. Men can plan great dates if they want to. I think men just think women will do it. so they don't spend the time. To me, a man that will plan an exciting date. And I don't mean... That gives me thrills.

Yeah, not a jet to Paris for dinner. I don't mean that. I mean, just a guy that will... It doesn't have to be expensive. Oh, my God. That is the man that I want right there. I agree. I agree with you.

I also think a man should always walk on the street side and keep a woman on the inside. Always. Always to protect her. People forget about that. Always. Always. You know, one thing we're, you and I are both saying, even though we're of a certain age, being a gentleman and being courteous is a turn on for women and it never goes out of style. Never, ever.

So yes. You men are hearing that. Yeah. I mean, really, there's some things that just never, ever, quite a style. And that's, I'm trying to give by any other ones. I had the men should always open doors, but you had that one as well. Oh, one more. I know we got to go, but just real quickly.

Okay. Women, I don't agree with this, but I've heard, and people have criticized me for it, women in the dating world should not show their strength, both physically, financially, they should be demure and diminutive in stature. They should make themselves be small, whether it's financially, physically, sexually, all of it. What do you think? I am not that girl. I don't think I could follow those rules.

I haven't read that, actually. Yeah. Like, dating advice and you're dating. Like, I don't think the first night you got to show power, but I am who I am. I can't pretend to be anybody else. So I need to be who I am. And if you like me, that's great. And if you don't, I understand.

Yeah. I find that a lot of men who I'm friends with say, you know, Kathy, you're just so strong. Well, that's what they said to me. You know what C.K. said to me the other day. Hello, C.K. he said Kathy if men would just take the time to get to know you they would see what a terrific woman you are and I thought it was a lovely compliment but I thought yeah yeah but they don't take the time so you know I guess I

guess I need to be diminutive and demure the two Ds I don't know I can tell you how I can tell you how I could tell you wear a short skirt and put tape over my mouth have a lot of food keep eating so you can't talk on that happy note we're done here that is going to do it this was fun for today's episode. This was a fun episode. Thank you to everyone for listening. We had so much fun. We hope that you enjoyed hearing our hot takes and our advice to our listeners. And keep those questions coming because without them, we'd have to make stuff off. And we could do that too. And you know how to do it. Thank you so much for everybody listening.

Just go to bachelornation.com slash golden hour and submit those questions. That's what we're here. for. I hope we get some great comments on this episode. And some more questions. Okay. Listen to Bachelor Happy Hours, Golden Hour on the IHeart Radio app, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Until next time, have a great week. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.