Bachelor Happy Hour - Cindy Knows What She Wants | Happy Hour

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

Today on “Happy Hour,” we’re sitting down with Cindy to discuss “After the Final Rose,” Antigua, and so much more. We kick off part one of our interview going right back to Antigua. From the moment Cindy stepped off the plane, it seemed there were signs coming to her left and right. She tells us how she navigated those final moments with Mel and we also dive into her departure and what led her to that decision; was there anything Mel could have said that would’ve made her stay? Cindy also gives us an emotional look back on her journey with Mel and what hindsight has taught her about their relationship; are there any what ifs? Tune in now to hear all this and more, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now.

Listen for free on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. On an all new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas, Emmy, Golden Globe and Tony Award winner, Sarah Paulson, spills on red carpet hacks. We saw these pictures and you're like, what is the story with this? She gets real about the inspiration behind her roles. Oh, no, there is no end to how people will behave. And she puts host Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yag on notice. I don't think so, honey. I feel very, very triggered by this.

Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Lust Cultureista and listen to the full podcast now. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and on the new season of heavyweight. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old. And a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? Listen to Heavyweight on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Jingle bells, jingle, jingle all the way. Yo, yo, yo, can we get a Thanksgiving first? I'm hungry. What's up, y'all? It's Kadeen. And DeVal, the host of the Ellis Ever After podcast. This holiday season. Tune out the noise and tune in to Ellis Ever After. On Ellis Ever After, we get real with our crew about family, love, and marriage. And everything else in between.

Listen to Ellis Ever After on America's number one podcast network, IHeart. Follow Ellis Ever After and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it ripped through me. In season two of RipCurrent, we ask, who tried to kill Judy Berry and why? They were climbing trees and they were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing.

I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement. Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Bet Your Happy Hour. I'm Joe. And I'm Serena. And we are here today with Cindy.

Good job. That was good. Thank you. From Golden Bachelor, Cindy. How are you? I'm doing great. Better than I deserve, probably. but I'm doing great. Thanks for asking. How are you? No such thing. No such thing. I mean, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. How are you? I'm great. I'm happy to meet you. You've been on this podcast before, but sadly you were on the one of the very few weeks a year that Joe and I were not on it. There's only like one or two times that ever happens. So we were sad to miss you. But we're excited to chat with you today. We have a nice two-part interview coming out. Well, I'm happy to meet with you too. And I'm glad you had a great trip. You deserve it. You need to take that time for yourselves. Thank you. Yes. It was much.

needed it was great you live uh i want to you know i know some of our audience knows some of the stuff already but you live in austin texas right i live in austin texas i've been there for about 30 years but today i'm in los angeles so but yes i've been in austin for a long time yeah that city's really changed huh oh my gosh uh i live in downtown and downtown when i moved there was a ghost town nobody lived down there there was not even there wasn't any apartment complex or high rise at all downtown that was it we had an ordinance that uh you couldn't build buildings taller than the state capital right okay so everything was really short and when they removed that ordinance boy it started booming and now it's just an amazing downtown area the whole city is popping you should count

i'd love to have you yeah we went to i had my brother's bachelor party there we went to to a hotel lobby that was actually great. I think it was the proper hotel. Yeah, it's two blocks for me. It's amazing. Yeah, so you live right there. Yeah. We actually looked at that hotel as a potential wedding venue when we first started.

Oh. Look, we didn't go see it, but just when we were doing some research, we thought it was really pretty. Yeah, Austin is super fun. We get a lot of people for a bachelorette and bachelor parties and weekends. And I was on a plane yesterday with a group of guys who just got back. They just went down and ate barbecue. And that was their weekend, was just finding all these great barbecue places. Yeah.

Do you have a favorite barbecue place in Austin? They actually mentioned a couple of them that I haven't been. But my favorite is actually in a gas station. It's called Rudy's Barbecue off of 360. They have several across the state of Texas. But that one in particular, there's something extra special going on in their smokehouse. I don't know what it is, but it suits me. Nice.

I went to, I think it's called La Barbecue or L.A. Yeah, sure. That was a good spot. Katie and, do you know Katie and Zach? They live in Austin. I have not met them yet. I look forward to it. Okay. I'm sure you will. And Kathy. Oh, yeah. Have you met Kathy? Remember, I'm just, I'm just out. I haven't been, I've been kind of sequestered from the world until this last week. So give me a minute. All right? Give me a minute. I'll track them down quickly. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, you should hang out with Kathy. She's a good time. Yeah, you have a good crew down. in Austin. I have to make my way down there at some point. I've never been and I've always wanted to check it out. So it'll be really fun. We'll treat you

great. Great hospitality. What brought you to Austin? Because you've only been there for 30 years. So where did you come from? No, 30's long time. I just mean like you didn't, you didn't, you weren't born and raised. 30's longer than you've been a lot. It's a fair question. It's a fair question. You've only been there for 30 years. I moved to Austin to marry a man back in

the day. Yeah. I met him. I was living in Dallas, living a great life in Dallas. You talk about a fun city for a single person, and especially back in the day. But I met a man who was living in Austin, and we decided to get engaged and had to pick where we moved. And Austin was it. I haven't looked back. It's been a fun place. Did you watch the Dallas Cowboys documentary by any chance?

I haven't. I haven't. And SMU has a new documentary that I need to see as well about the death penalty, which I lived through when I was cheering there. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Listen, I've got to catch up on a lot of things. Yeah, you have to watch the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader Series, too. America's theater. I love that one. And The Secret Life's a Mormon way.

Okay. We watch a lot of TV over here. Let's get into this. So before we get into AFR and everything, let's go back to Antigua. Where is Antigua, by the way? Antigua is into British West Indies. I don't know this because I had my phone with me because you know they take our phones, but it's into British, British West Indies. And I've been to islands.

that are about a hundred miles away. But it's a special island. If you haven't been at put it on your short list, it was amazing. A girlfriend, I just saw this morning for coffee, she actually Bree Springs, who was also on The Bachelor, she was just there on a trip. And she said it was exquisite, like so beautiful, something that somewhere I've never thought about going, but I really want to check out. So the sand is like walking on a temperatech mattress.

oh my gosh okay so um you get to antigua it's Antigua Antigua you get to Antigua it should be called Antigua by the way pitch it tell them to use their name Sydney yeah um it's beautiful you know you're you're one of two women left what is going through your mind when you first get there uh I was what was going through my mom I got to go back to that moment. Get off the plane. You're in this beautiful city.

I walk through, I tell you what happened. I walked through customs, and they handed my passport. And he's like, you're single. I go, yeah. He goes, well, maybe you'll meet your husband on the island. No way. Did you feel like that was a sign? I did.

I really did. Because that's what I was thinking, right? Here I am. We're going to discover some more things about each other, move this relationship down the road. And, wow, this is incredible. I actually found a guy as crazy as it sounds on national TV and we're going to make this work. That's what I was thinking. Were you at all hesitant going into Antigua because you were worried Mel maybe wasn't there yet?

No. Okay. I know. And after we know the ending of the show, it's hard to remember. So I've got to put myself back into that timeline. But at that moment, I believed that he was putting one foot in front of the other, too. Was any part of you at that point thinking about his connection with Peg or the fact that there was someone else there? Honestly, I wasn't.

It's kind of remarkable to think based upon how I responded after the pool party. But having Kathy and Susan come for the pajama party that night was very helpful. Kathy said to me, you just got to pay attention to your own relationship with him. This is an unusual situation. Can you imagine in my real life going to an island with a man who was there with two women? That's just not going to happen. Not going to happen. So suspend reality and play your game.

Just like be in your own mind. Be in your own relationship with Mel. And don't let what else is happening when his relationship with other people interfere. And that was such great advice at the perfect time. and I carried it with me the rest of the episodes. Yeah, it is so interesting because we have seen the way you were responding and feeling in the beginning of the season, every season, right? And it's just such a normal way to feel.

But rare is it that someone kind of switches that mentality and is able to compartmentalize the relationship? And I feel like you really did that around that time where you stopped worrying about the other women, or at least that's what it looked like as a viewer. you really kind of locked in on just you and Mel's relationship. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Now, let me go back a little bit further. Just give you a little tidbit of insight.

The whole first episode, when I said, I'm falling in love. What ended up on the editing floor is, but there's a lot of types of love. This feels like puppy love, you know, those little puppies. You just want to be around them all the time. They're so cute, and, you know, Mel can walk in and wag his tail, and I'm right there. But early on, I did have strong feelings for him. and was wondering how he was doing with the other women. And after that conversation with Kathy,

it was pretty clear that if I was going to survive in my head and not eat myself up, that I had to change a mindset. Great advice. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers. But it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. so why did it take so long to catch him?

I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health,

and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone. Depends which bone. Well, that's true.

Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility and things that happen in the bedroom. You mean sleep? Yeah, something like that, Jordan. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually want to. wonder about. It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between. Men's health is about more than six packs and supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection. We don't just want you to live longer. We want you to live better. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not my best moment where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo. Somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes. Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head. We made a mistake. The deal fell through.

We're embarrassed. We failed. But this podcast is about that and how we made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like, we got into the small talk. And they were just like, so what do you got? What? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no.

What? Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kevin on stage, on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. On an all new episode of IHard Radio's Las Culturistas, Emmy, Golden Globe, and Tony Award winner. Sarah Paulson spills on red carpet hacks. We saw these pictures and you're like, what is the story with this? She gets real about the inspiration behind her roles. Oh, no, there is no end to how people will behave.

And she puts host Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yag on notice. I don't think so, honey. I feel very, very triggered by this. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Las Culturista. And listen to the full podcast now. On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, D.D. Jakes, get to sit down

with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul philanthropist, and global trailblazer. My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was obedient to the calls. This episode dies deep into how Oprah turned pain into purpose and what it really means to evolve with everybody watching. Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting. with the spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first? Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak

directly to you. Listen to the next chapter on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast, episodes drop weekly. Is Mel your typical type of man? There are a lot of things about Mel that I've been looking for. So I don't think I have it typical. My daughter's kind of alluded to this at the hometowns. I've dated a lot of great men. I've dated a lot of handsome men, a lot of smart men, a lot of wealthy men, a lot of athletic men.

What I like about Mel is different than what people might have seen on his initial resume, so to speak. He's a professional athlete, a professional football player. So to the rest of the world, that might mean glamour and fame and money. To me, I'm a division one athlete myself. And I know the dedication it takes to graduate from a school like Michigan, playing football at the level that he did, and then go on to play for the pros for a single team, and then to turn and become an attorney. So the characteristics that I was reading from his resume, if you look at Mel, were things that were a little different.

I looked at his dedication. I looked at how curious he must see life to make a change. I look at how one of the things that I projected onto him that may or may not be true is how he was able to make big, bold changes in his life going from the NFL to becoming an attorney. And I love in my life those moments at which I've just said, forget what the world thinks. What do you want to do and shake it up?

So Mel is my type for those reasons. but not for the reasons that you would automatically see. What sport did you play? That was my question too. I was on the Palm team and then I cheered. So both were letters. And so sadly, all those athletes are really, you know, the football players and basketball players who probably put in more hours, I have better statistical credentials at the school

because I got two letters and they only got one. But nonetheless, we practiced a lot. We traveled with the team. we had our own competitions and it was a lot of work and I loved every minute best seats in the house if you ask me oh yeah cheering is no joke what do you do now I'm retired retired last October prior to be retired so I'll give you a whole history so I graduated with the degree in biomedical engineering and I started selling semiconductors moved to LA lived in LA for a very brief period of time missed then move back to Texas that I missed

the medical part of what I was doing, and I sold diagnostic imaging equipment, think MRI, CT scanners, et cetera. And then I got married and we started to have a family. So I got promoted with Sarah, Emily, and Caroline. And I was blessed to stay home for 20 years with those babies and had a great time. That's the best job I've ever had. Then I came back to work when I found out, you know, I was not going to remain married. And so there are a lot of things that I had to put back. into place in my life. And I accidentally got a job selling in the facial aesthetics market, which is highly coveted. Every woman thinks that's the most glamorous. I like it because it's where all the science is. And so I've been doing that for a while and decided to retire. We'll see

what happens. Amazing. You have a favorite daughter? Joe. I do. It's Sarah, Emily, and Caroline. And it's funny because I'll tell people this, you know, like tonight I'll be with Caroline. I'll say this is my favorite daughter. They'll all roll their eyes. It's just kind of a family joke that probably every family has. That's so funny. But we say, we say, what's your favorite colors? Because colors is my last name.

Oh. Oh, I didn't know that. That's your last name. Cindy colors. Oh, great name. If you asked Mel during the show what his favorite colors, he would say Cindy. Now I'm not so sure. I think he's going to have to say Peg.

Fair. you should as you should as you should yes that's very funny so going into the stingray date overall just going into the date in general what are you what is the goal what do you what do you want to get out of mel oh i think i said it uh on the show that you know i wanted i wanted to see if he had started making plans in his mind for me and for us i also wanted to have a little fun it had been several days since i'd seen him you know i just wanted to to go back to some of the playful part of our relationship that, you know, just, I don't want to get that heavy all the time. So I wanted to see us play. And I wanted to find out if he had begun to think

about what life might look like with me. Was that playfulness between you two there most of the season? Because we don't, you know, we only, we only get to see so much. And I don't really think as viewers for the most part we didn't really see like the fun mel which i believe he is because we've had him on this podcast and he has a lot more um he has a much bigger personality than the show i think led on i would agree with that for sure yes it was like just a horseback riding for example first just even him getting on the horse and he's self deprecating and he's also very supportive and he was so fun to watch him literally coach his horse up that mountain up that trail and kind of be in a moment and the couches that we sat on outside the observatory were so low

that he looked at the producer and said tell me what you need to get from us because once I go down I'm not getting back up again you know because it was it's just a lower couch for him the tall guy yeah he's very playful and um yeah I thought it was interesting that he wanted to see me outside of my comfort zone and we go swim with stingrays right he's definitely not interested in doing that yeah tell us about that activity we see you kind of dive in he's more hesitant and it feels like you kind of coaxed him to come and try it i was a little surprised by how timid he was um because on the boat he's like wow those are those are big like they're prehistoric monsters I thought they would be smaller.

But that's an observation. I didn't realize that he just did not want to interact with them. So we got into the pool and he wouldn't leave the latter area. And I couldn't stay in the latter area because I'm underwater. Literally, I would be up to my eyeballs on my tippy toes. So you had to jump in. I had to go in. I had to go out a little bit further to where the handers had the stingrays.

And they were all starting. The stingrays just, you know, it's feeding time. they all know to come out and to swim around. And I had done it before, and it was new for Mel. So, yeah, I look back and he's not following me. Check in. Like, what are we doing here? Are you coming?

Should I come back? So you go to the night portion of your date. Well, wait, wait, wait, before we go to the night portion, how does the stingray date end? Like, where are you guys before we even get to the night portion at the end of that stingray date? like emotionally yeah yeah yeah how are you feeling okay so um there was a moment at the end of the date where um we are he's having to hold me and uh it's just easier so i don't have to tread water and you can't kick the stingray so if i had to go to him so he's holding me we're kissing

and we're snuggling and we have a moment and i said i just want you know this is real for me Like, I have real feelings for you. This is not for show. This is truly how I'm feeling. And I think you're a great guy, and I could see a life together. And I don't need it tomorrow, but I could start seeing it. And I'm kind of surprised myself. And he, at that moment, says, this is just really fast for him.

And I got back on the boat, and I thought, have I been misreading this? You know, I kind of thought this is the direction we were going. and you know he had talked early on about you know wanting to go to austin to see my kids and he met my kids and um i don't i just i was just a little confused getting back on the boat but also wanting to still continue to have a good time but listen i i can have a good time and not put myself out there as the way i did on the show to come home with a boyfriend you know could stay in austin and go have a boyfriend well i also get how that that would be kind of jarring to where it's like you have this nice little moment

and then it's like that that's tough and like I understand like I've I get where Mel's coming from with like I do too with a lot of it but you know in the same breath this is kind of what you signed up for like it is like the show produces engagement so like there has to be a part of you that needs to be willing to take that leap of faith even though if you're not that person if you commit to the show you are kind of committing to taking that risk and i feel like he i don't think he was able to do that um once he's but he's allowed to he's allowed to have you know his own views and to be hesitant at that moment too i i recognize that mel i've been dating You know, I've had lots of experiences, and Mel told me on the limo night that he was using this experience to kind of, to date, to look at a different, a lot of different type of women, to kind of try on a bunch of shoes, to use a Cinderella analogy, I guess.

But he was using this process to do something that I had already done in real life. So it's fair for him to get to this point and to say, wow, I hadn't even thought. thought about finding a girlfriend, it's a little much for me to think about finding a fiancé, right? So I get it. I get it. That's a great point. I didn't even think about that. Like if you're in your shoes thinking like, well, I've tried on all these different men and I've figured out kind of exactly what I'm looking for. So like when I find that person I know, like, hey, I'm ready to commit. Whereas Mel, he did say on the podcast, I think, as well, like he hasn't been dating. Like, this is his time to date. So then to.

to jump from, like, I just started dating to I fail my wife has got to feel like a huge leap for him. I agree. I agree. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island. serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York since the son of

Sam, available now. Listen for free on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone. Depends which bone. Well, that's true.

Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility, and things that happen in the bedroom. You mean sleep? Yeah, something like that, Jordan. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between. Men's Health is about more than six packs and supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection. We don't just want you to live longer.

We want you to live better. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Month, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success. about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak?

And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo. Somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes,

they would have thrown the tomatoes. Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head. We made a mistake. The deal fell through. We're embarrassed. We failed.

But this podcast is about that and how we made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like, we got into the small talk, and they were just like, so what do you got? What? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no. What? Check out not my best moment with me, Kevin on stage on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. On an all new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas, Emmy, Golden Globe, and Tony Award winner, Sarah Paulson, spills on red carpet hacks. We saw these pictures and you're like, what is the story with this? She gets real about the inspiration behind her roles. Oh, no, there is no end to how people will behave.

And she puts host Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yag on notice. I don't think so, honey. I feel very, very triggered by this. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search lust, cultureistas, and listen to the full podcast now. On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, D.D. Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, A media mogul philanthropist and global trailblazer.

My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was obedient to the calls. This episode dies deep into how Oprah turned pain into purpose and what it really means to evolve with everybody watching. Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the spirit, and asking God, what would you have me do first? Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak directly to you.

Listen to the next chapter on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast, episodes drop weekly. Do you think, Cindy, it would be different if Mel had done the experience the way you guys did where if he was a contestant vying for the Bachelorette and then became the lead because he technically never did the show

I just got goosebumps everywhere that's such a good question that's a really good question I got a lot of them you know that's a really good way because you know I thought about like production wise you know would he have been a little less reticent in front of the camera

if he had gone through it as a contestant But I think you're right. I think that's a really good point that he may have emotionally been more open to it and more vulnerable to it having gone through as a contestant. Very good question. And yeah, I agree. Yeah, we were wondering as well about he seems to have this strong feeling of like you're in the game, you finish the game. If you're in the game, you finish the game. And I think that is such a lead-focused mentality because their game goes from night one all the way to the very end.

They have to finish. They have to finish. They don't have a choice. Like their game is, they walk into night one knowing that they have a job to do till the very end, whereas the contestants, you're kind of like, I don't know what my game's going to end. Like my game is up to you or like I say, I think I have everything I need to know, I'm leaving. there's no certainty of like start to finish also very good point but if he is going to require people to be in it to the end he better keep his eye on the ball i think he took his eye off of their relationships and i can't really put my finger on what really happened i think it like

it just kind of got too too real for him and he i felt him pulling away and maybe it was that it was peg all along, but I mean, I could tell you it was, if it was peg, he wouldn't have been kissing me like he did in the water. So I just think that maybe he just lost track of the ball and was looking at the timeline to your point, Serena, that he's looking at completing all those steps, but he forgot to carry the ball with him in those steps. And he wasn't really progressing in a relationship with me or, you know, trying to figure out like what life would look like with me, what how, you know, what is, and I really what struck me, and I haven't really brought this out anywhere yet, but we were in my, in my condo for

hometowns and he's shaking a cosmo for me. I may cry. This, it's okay. It's really emotional. Like you're doing a lot of reflection. Yeah. Thank you. So on our one-on-one date, he said that he had a special cosmo that he liked, and cosmos are like one of my top drinks. And so he had the ingredients set to my condo and he's shaking me this condo it's literally the the shakers spilling everywhere and i don't care i'm just watching this amazing man in my place and i thought wow i could this is what i want to be doing on tuesday you know on the every day yeah and um i think mel was just going through the process part of it and um maybe took us eye off the ball and stop thinking about what Tuesdays might be yeah yeah and that's so hard to have that

visual of knowing what it you could have in front of your face and then having it taken away from you yeah well now you could go out and have cosmos on Tuesday you know I bet I bet somebody's got a happy hour in Austin you go have a good time and have a have a have a Cosmo at the bar at the proper that's where you should go I go I go out all the time don't you worry don't you worry okay so let's let's go so now we enter the night portion of the date and now it's all making sense into like kind of why you went in there somewhat hesitant and questioning him more and kind of just like walk us through that moment uh i needed answers you know going to the fantasy suite for me and i love the idea of going off camera no mics and having that time and mal and i had already had some conversations

that we were both like, okay, those are, we're going to talk about this when there are no cameras around because we don't want to show this with the world. But going to the fantasy suite also from my perspective, maybe I'm old fashioned, but even if nothing happens in the fantasy suite, you're going to have to answer questions to that the rest of your life. Speaking of bars, I came home from L.A., and I go to the bar, meeting a friend there, and a man comes up to me, a very hot man comes up to me, and says, I saw you on the show, I recognize you.

I loved watching you, and I'm going to buy you a drink because you didn't go to the fantasy suite. Oh, okay. From a guy's perspective, that's awesome. And so I knew that if he was not going to commit in the end, I'm not here for a boyfriend. I'm simply not. And I don't want to continue to put my life on pause for the hope of a boyfriend. It just wasn't enough for me. And I knew that Mel was worthy of more.

He definitely had, you know, my attention and my interest. And if I didn't have it for him, that's fine. But I just, you know, I didn't need to go to the fantasy suite. So I needed some answers in order to accept the card. And I honestly didn't want to embarrass him if he gave me the card. And then I said, no. So, yeah, that's where I was. Anything as honest as I could be.

in L.A.? Did you go to his fantasy suite? This was in Austin, and my answer is no to that. Okay. Do you go to his fantasy suite? I'm dead. So when you're going into that conversation, obviously you did not get the answers

that you were hoping for or looking for in order to continue the process with Mel. What could have Mel said or done in that conversation that would have made you feel comfortable to continue forward? I did not expect him to make a commitment to me or to pick me over Peg or even to say it's going to be you in the end. But I feel like a man in this position. If you're going to spend this amount of time, you're down to two women.

And if you haven't started to think about how your life is going to integrate, and Peg and I are completely different women, too. So if you're thinking about if I'm Mel and I'm thinking about my life and I haven't thought about my life with Cindy and how. that might be um how that might work for him how that might be different for him what the challenges might be what questions he might have for me about those challenges if he's not on that level and he's not really in the same place that i am and and you know clearly we're so far away from an engagement if he's not there yeah did any part of you wonder if he in that moment had already made his decision and was feeling like, you know, I already know it's Peg. No.

Interesting. No. I mean, if it was Pegg all along, he wouldn't have behaved with me the way he did. Yeah. You know, trolls me on the dock. And, you know, if you know, if you know you're going to be with someone else, you refrain from those things. I mean, you have niceties and you're gracious.

But I think a man or a woman, if you already made your mind up, you'd be. behave differently. You're not continuing to kiss and hold and hug and have those intimate moments if you've already made your decision up. Yeah. And I feel like the word that's been used a lot with Mel is he has a lot of integrity. It would surprise me if he would keep you if he had known it was someone else. Like if he was like, I'm 100% sure it's peg. I assume that he would likely be upfront with that with you. And I knew that if I I asked him questions, like, you know, if I'd gone to the fantasy suite and asked him what happened with Peg, he would be honest with me. He was, he really was very upfront with me and, and I felt I could,

I felt I could trust him for sure. Yeah, he, he strikes me as an honest, like, blunt person. Like, he wouldn't, I don't think he's the type of guy that would just, like, lead you on. No, or like sugar cut something to make you feel better. All right. I think this is a good place to take a break with Cindy and we will be back for part two. Thanks so much for listening. We will have new and exclusive interviews every single week. Stay tuned for part two with Cindy.

Bye. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch

him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. On an all-new episode of IHard Radio's Las Culturistas, Emmy, Golden Globe and Tony Award winner Sarah Paulson spills on red carpet hacks. We saw these pictures and you're like, what is the story with this? She gets real about the inspiration behind her roles. Oh, no, there is no end to how people will behave. And she puts host Matt Rogers and Bowen-Yag on notice.

I don't think so, honey. I feel very, very triggered by this. Open your free I-Heart radio app. Search less, cultureistas. And listen to the full podcast now. I'm Iba Longoria. And I'm Maite Gomezrejorn. And this week on our podcast, Hungry for History,

we talk oysters, plus the Mianbi chief stops by. If you're not an oyster lover, don't even talk to me. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oysters. Eustercels to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the OsterCon. Listen to Hungry for History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it ripped through me. In season two of RipCurrent, we asked, who tried to kill Judy Berry and why? They were climbing trees and they were. sabotaging logging equipment in the woods. She received death threats before the bombing. She received more threats after the bombing. I think that this is a deliberate attempt to sabotage our movement.

Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another. It's okay not to be okay sometimes and be able to build strength and love within each other. I'm Elia Connie, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope. I've always wanted us to have therapy, so this is such a beautiful opportunity. Listen to Season 2 of Family Therapy every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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