Bachelor Happy Hour - Clayton Echard & Rachel Recchia’s Perfect Rematch | Happy Hour

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

Today on “Happy Hour,” the one and only Clayton Echard is here for his first public conversation with Rachel since “Perfect Match.” With so much to unpack, Charity and Rachel dive right into the rapid rise and fall of their infamous reunion. Then, we get into the chaos of his “Bachelor” season, including where he stands today with Rachel, Susie, and Gabby. We also get into his brand-new podcast, including some shocking truths behind the night Clayton first met Laura. Tune in now to hear all this and more, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Keep It Positive, Sweetie creates space for honest conversations on self-worth, love, growth, and navigating life with grace and grid led by women who uplift, inspire, and tell the truth out I have several conversations with God, and I know why it took the 20 years. To hear this and more, listen to Keep It Posit, Sweetie, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It's the new me, and it's the old them. This woman's history month, the podcast, if you knew better with Amber Grimes, spotlights women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power. My, like, tunnel vision of, like, I got to achieve this was off the strengths of, like, I want to make a better life for us. If You Knew Better brings real talk from women who've lived it,

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Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search between us and listen now. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Be Bachelor Happy Hour. I'm Charity. And I'm Rachel. And today we have a very special surprise guest, my favorite ex-boyfriend. Clayton, welcome to Happy Hour.

Is that true? Am I your actual favorite? You know, you absolutely are. Are you already? No, I'm not. I'm not. But I do have to apologize off the bat. Me and Charity were a little late today.

I just got back from the gym. Mm-hmm. So we've both been going to the gym lately. Consistently. But no, we're so excited to have you on. Thank you. I'm excited to be here, guys. I'm excited to be here.

You know, I deserve that little shout out the guy. That's fine. We're, I, I would be. If I didn't think that was coming, then I'd be ridiculous we've been showing up on here. Exactly. Is that the only one? Am I going to have to just be dodging all this entire time? Listen, you might have to get used to dodging because we got some comment.

Rachel, you and I are both wearing black. So like we're matching. We're matching. So like we run it back a third time. I know. Yes. Speaking of, I'm going to get right into it because you said the magic word. Matching.

we have to talk about perfect match. First off, because there's a lot of history, obviously, between YouTube. But starting with you, Clayton, I need to understand and inquire. What made you want to do perfect match? Look, I think reality television is fun at this point now. It's like a challenge as far as like being yourself in a foreign environment and seeing like how you adapt. And I think it's very psychological.

I think we all know that people go on for a multitude of reasons. So it's like we're here for the show, but who's really here for a right reason or is our right reason or who's here for fame, who's here for an actual relationship, who's trying to make themselves look good. And like I think the whole thing's just super psychological. So I just feel like it really tests me

and I grow a lot from these experiences. So that was the intrigue. Yeah. Well, I'm curious to know, like, in what ways do you feel like you've grown? from perfect match in specific. Rachel will answer this too, right? I'm curious, Rachel, what about you? Listen, we're all going around.

Why did I go on? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's just make this so like three-way entry. Yeah, no, because I am curious. I guess for me, something that was really exciting was on my journey in The Bachelor. I never got to have a season where I was by myself or a spot on Paradise where I wasn't the Bachelorette. And I was really excited to go on perfect match because I got to do.

just be alone or what I thought was going to be alone because Blake was the only other person I knew they were talking to. So I wanted to ask too, were you surprised when they reached out to you? Oh, yeah. I mean, because I was just like, what's, why now? I mean, I guess I had some videos, like my dance videos were, you know, being pushed around the internet. And so that's the way they phrased it. They're like, you know, we love your dance videos and we just want you to come on to dance. That's what they told you. That's what they told me. Yeah. And so I guess maybe my ego is like, you know what? I've had some videos go viral and like maybe I am popping up all over the place.

And like that's maybe this makes sense. I'll be like the big shock, you know, coming from outside of the Netflix universe. But when you walked in the first day, I was like, and that's why I'm here. Yeah. So that's really why. All right. So did you guys not know, like, you know, you hear rumblings of like people who might like join the cast? Did you know Clayton that Rachel was like, you know, going to be there or considered?

like to possibly be there? Not at all. No, the, what happened was somebody slipped up while I was there and accidentally shared that she was coming. And it was like completely off, it was off camera. It wasn't so supposed to be told me.

And that's what I knew about like two days before she showed up. Wow. Not prior to that point. Wow. And I knew on my date going in to the villa. So I felt like kind of prepared, but I don't think we could have

prepared for like how dramatic it was. But if The Bachelor is going to do anything, it's going to bring the drama to a show that's classically very unsurious. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, like it also, it was just so fast. And I'm not here to make excuses. But I could just really go back into my head for a second here.

Like it really pulled back all these like conversations we didn't have and all these feelings, like all ripped it all right back into the forefront. Like I was completely caught off guard. And I think like also I already had a couple drinks that night and I was like totally a sound mind But it was just like this like you know kind of like feel good I'm on vacation I'm into loom life's good Great like man how blessed am I to be here getting paid some decent money just like chill with some people for 30 days like I'm vibing And then it's just like boom Rachel comes walking in I'm like whoa whoa whoa and it's like of course like all those like emotions rush back it's like Because prior to that point I mean Rachel you and I had like we've we've been in a couple spots

That's, you know, like over the course of the years, like we've run into each other. But it's like obviously we're not in the same city. We're not bumping into each other often. So it's like two years goes by. We see each other. Two years goes by. And then it's like there's a lot to catch up with. Right.

So I just completely was overwhelmed. And of course, that's what you saw playing on screen was I was just like my brain was just fluttering all over the place. So but that's, you know, of course, it's like, once she came in, I was like, this is why they have us here. And this was the main story. It was the main storyline. Yeah. They loved playing that in the trailer. I'm curious.

I know that you've been you've been really vocal about producers and your edit on The Bachelor. What did you think was going to be different coming over to Netflix? Different teams. So just different results. But what I found was that it's not the producers, it's the editors. And I think I unfairly blamed the producers on The Bachelor when it's really, to me, it's the editors that just basically take footage and they decide, look, like there's no nuance

unless you're on a show like Love Island where they're showing every single day. They don't have time to edit. So they show you as you are. But when they got, you know, 16 hours of footage and they got to pack it into one episode, they're like, let's just like, there's no time for nuance. So you're good or bad. And I think that's like where I should have known that going into perfect match, that the formatting was the same.

So it's like, okay, we have someone who's good and someone is bad. You can't be anywhere in between because we don't have time to like draw, you know, basically portray nuance. So I thought that different network, like it could be a redemption thing and I could just be my fun self and I wouldn't be at the center of drama. But then, of course, like the second that they bring in and acts from a previous show, it's like you're bringing all of that back. Yeah.

Which means I'm already now under fire again for like the same thing unless I act differently. And I don't, I don't regret, you know, I don't regret. I can we say that it was messy? Of course. But I don't regret, like, giving it an initial chance because I was like, the safe thing to do would have just been like, you know, stay away. And it's so great to see you. That's the safe thing. But, like, I truly believe that, like, I'm just never going to choose the safe thing.

I'm going to choose the thing that feels right in the moment. We can all sit here and be like, Clayton, maybe you should pick up on things a little faster. That's fine. I said hello. We can all say that. Like, and honestly, I've learned as I've grown up. Like, I grew up in a household, again, I'm just going to explain what I. I think has occurred. I grew up in a household of old boys. We never talked about emotions.

So like, this is new to me. So me like feeling my way through emotions, presenting them. Like people said on the bachelor, I was cold at points. And it definitely read that way. But it was because I was crying behind closed doors. So that showed up. It was like, I'm like, I can't cry in front of women. That's, that's, I was told never to do that as a man. So like it's, but the course that's perceived is like he's just staring at this woman cold, you know, while they're looking at while they're looking at them in tears. So the same thing, though, like as I've evolved and went to therapy and all that, like, I'm still learning. like these emotions are new to me so like i think people are on the they hit the nail on the head when

they're like he means well he's just like not quite picking it up quick enough and it's like that's that's fair i i don't disagree with that yeah you mentioned like um like producers and kind of going in and like it all kind of being very similar do you ever feel or like felt i should say or since in the moment when you saw rachel was there and like you guys i guess making that ultimate like decision to like try and rekindle. Did you ever in your head possibly think like, oh, this is like maybe a bait that they're setting up for me to like kind of fall. Oh, no.

No, I mean, but to that your point, like that's like exactly what they were doing. Yeah. All I did, I just saw her come in and she just started cheese and smiling at me like. Rachel. Oh. And I just felt that. I felt that emotion of like, oh my gosh, look who it is. And I wasn't like like, stay away, dude.

You're going to screw this all up all over again. just in the moment. And like when she walked in, I was like, I felt this rush of like, what's going on here? Like what's happening? Yeah. Yeah. Like there's there's still, there were strong feelings then. There's always.

Yeah. I obviously admire you, Rachel. Like, I think you're a great human being. And like, obviously we connected originally because there was substance there, right? So like all of a sudden, you just like throw someone back in the mix again and you're, all those feelings flood back up. And I was just telling myself like Clayton, act upon how you feel. Don't think about like how will this be perceived and word.

just beheaded because then I can't be present with her in that moment. So I'm like, shut all that all that overthinking out and just be here right in front of her. And that's what I was doing. So yeah, of course it was a setup. I mean, I just was like, don't think about how it's going to be seen. Just be here. Did you, I'm going to ask both of you guys.

Did you guys ever think at a point like, oh, this could possibly, like, what if this works out or like we might like rekindle and like, I don't think we had time. We like saw each other that night and then the next day I didn't see you at all. Yeah. And I went through in my head. I mean, I like fast forwarded overnight while I was laying in bed, you know, just like thinking about if this works. And I was like fast forwarding in the future and our discussions we were having. And I was like I was like putting like in my head of family.

I was like if we were like how like I was racing all of it fast in my head because I was just like, hey, I can't mess this up. Like I've already hurt her. Like I really do care about her as a person. So like I need to make sure that I feel like I'm right about this, right? Like because if I'm wrong, I have to then like I can't do this again to her. You know? So and that was where like I was laying in bed. Like I don't know if it took me, probably took me a while with 45 minutes to actually fall asleep.

Like I was just laying there just thinking. And then I woke up in the morning and I was like, okay, I'm feeling a, you know, a gut feeling. And let me just give it a little bit more time. But like I really just. want to like make sure that again I make this decision but I make it fully and I feel strongly about the decision I make but also like I don't track this out like it was really uncomfortable. I mean even like on this this interview it's like I feel something in my stomach you know like I feel like this like nerve and Rachel's always been super sweet and outside I've

come in a couple times she throws some some cuts at me on podcast but we talk about it offline and like again it's not anything major like I've always been grateful because like I can understand being like, dude, get your shit together. And like, could you just figure it out quicker? And like, it's just be a little. Like, it's like, yeah, no, that's fair. That's all fair. But we've had a lot of, you know, a few offline discussions on the phone. And like, I think there is a mutual respect. And I at least feel that. And I've always been really grateful that, you know, that you've, you know, we can sit here and we can have these conversations and be cordial. And we can also admit that like, yeah, I'm still working progress and I'm still learning.

Like I just, I, and I'm open about it, you know, and I mess up. But, I mean, I don't know. I guess that's just like we went on reality television and that's, we found ourselves in the same place twice. Yeah. The newest tracks. Let's go. New music. And the next big thing.

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Stream now on the free IHart Radio. Next Monday, our 2026 IHart Podcast Awards are happening live at South by Southwest. It's the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHart Radio. Thank you to all the other nominees.

You guys are awesome. It's live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific free at veeps.com or the Veeps app. Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is a little bit of a little bit. about freedom-loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius are misunderstood.

A son and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want to chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. On the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcasts, what if the right fit isn't what

everyone expects? In the case of the right fit, Ella explores movement, confidence, and belonging, and learns that not all strength looks the same. Tennis is powerful, fast, focused, and kind of fun. Strong swing, Ella. This Women's History Month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently. A thoughtful episode about identity, courage, and helping kids discover where they truly belong.

So it's okay if I'm not quite sure what my thing is yet. It's absolutely okay. When, and if you do find a sport you love, you may be the next, Gertchoo, Tony, or Venus. At CuriosityCode. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him.

Hi, Dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, I have some cookies and milk. This is this badass. convict me just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk them all. Yeah. On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon, Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second

chances. The entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free I-Heart radio app. Search the Cito Show. And listen now. I will like to like to mention that this is technically you guys'

first conversation since perfect match, like, one-on-one, like publicly. Publicly, yes. I know. We've talked to you out on the phone. Yeah, we've spoken. But, yeah, publicly, this is. our first conversation like conversation together. Yeah.

I mean, again, like every time I pop on here, it's one thing on a phone call, but when you see like each other's face, I just don't know how you don't feel that those like emotions, like, it's not like they just like cease to exist. So, yeah, and I think it's funny that you can make, you can give me trouble about the old gym thing. It's fair. Like, again, I don't want to ever have like bad relationships with people. Like I can screw up, but I'm like, hey, as long as like we can admit, like, like,

like I've done some wrong and I can grow from it. Like, hopefully we can all forgive each other. I mean, I don't like that I have technically some beef with another X that like I never talked to that we're aware of. But like I don't like it. I don't like it deep down. Like I don't like the fact that like where did this like, why can't we just be cool? You know, like why does it have to be all this?

Yeah. Well, Clayton, don't shy away now. I was going to say you say you don't like it. Who is the egg? To keep getting yourself in these situations. Okay, well, hold up. Gabby went after me. We love a name.

We love a name. Gabby went after my dancing. And it was just like necessary because it was like Gabby, like I felt like Gabby, like you had your own season. You had your own guys. Like why are you going like skipping them? Like you're going right at me. And it's like I'm over here just like honestly it was very vulnerable for me to dance.

Like I look, I'm not stupid. I know my dancing capacity. Like I'm a white dude trying. to pick up hip hop like it was looking rough for a long while it just probably in the last like you know six months started to get all sudden having a little flow where it was like okay wait you can kind of show up now but prior to that point like it was very vulnerable and i did really like i was getting bothered by a lot of the comments but i kept telling myself quick just keep posting keep posting because like just keep pushing through this and like eventually like you will end up being seen as a

solid dancer but you'll just or you'll find the confidence and like that's the biggest thing you want So for her to like all sudden then draw additional attention on me and was like, you know, he's basically he's bad at dancing. I was just like, Gabby, why? Like I've already been fighting through this mountain of negativity. And like then you just on top of me. And I haven't even said your name in years. That's where I was upset. And I was just like, I have to respond and stand up for myself.

Like I don't I need to like I need to be able to just stand up and say something. And so I did. I thought I was fairly fair. Like I don't think I was like going after her. you know i know i think yeah i would agree i think um obviously there's like two sides and two perspectives on the entire situation but i i will say from the outside looking in like obviously if you understand or no context into why you got into dancing to begin with i think that's very admirable i will say and i'll give you your flowers here clayton for that um and so i think

a lot of people obviously it's just they're quick to like jump on something quick to like pal on to people I think that's where we've kind of straight away in social media in general. It's just really rough and hard. So mad respect to you for that. But yeah, it was kind of interesting to see kind of like Gabby maybe throw that out and be like, okay, like in my world, I'm like, just let the man dance, let, you know, mind your business type situation. But I do think like, yes, the bigger conversation was, okay, we probably shouldn't.

I don't want to say bully, but yes, bully essentially. Like, you know, her remarks were not that. the nicest or probably not kind comments. Yeah, they're not necessary. And like it's like it's not that big of a deal. And I'm like, but look, I'm all about how the person, you know, perceives it. Right.

So like for you to. Like their intention. I have been, I have been, people have called me way worse. So I was like in high like yes, I'm not really that upset by it. It's more just the right. It's like if I let her walk all over me, then everyone else will too. You know, as I stand up for myself, people might be like, okay, he's going

to fire back and and, and, you know, and it. And it did backfire a bit. I feel like, you know, it didn't make her look the greatest. And I was just like, just hopefully going forward, Gabby, like, you just don't do that to somebody. Like, just go after somebody, you know, because what if I went after you for, you know, something equivalent? Like, it wouldn't be looking well. But my whole thing is this is like, if you have a problem with me, then just like call me.

Have you guys not talked ever? Like, I don't think she cares. I mean, I think it is. Clayton, I think it is fair to say, though, that Gabby does have the right. And you, I think, are in a lucky position where you do still have a friendship with Susie and me and you are on good terms, but I think it is so fair for Gabby to not want to be a part of that and not want to call you. I mean, she is a dancer. So I feel like she might have just, you know, Gabby, she makes fun of herself.

She makes fun of everyone. I think it started off. Like innocent, it did, you know, obviously go really far between the both of you. But I guess the question I want to ask, it feels like something that's like a common thread with you is you don't like being. misunderstood by the public and you really feel the need to like defend yourself in these situations is that something you think is true that statement you just made yeah like i feel like you you tend to like over explain a little bit because you don't like feeling misunderstood and it can kind of get you into yeah yeah i mean absolutely i feel like i'm very misunderstood i mean i i and and where this

comes from is just what i've read online you know the feedback the dms the the the blog you know, saying he's, people assume that I've always been this superstar athlete that got all the girls. And it's like, I used to be very small. I was bullied. I was friends owned by girls. I was called Big Brother. I was a terrible athlete, you know. And so like for me, it's like you're, you're judging me based on what I look like today. And you're treating me like I've been that stereotypical douchebag that, like, that just has always gotten his way. And it couldn't be the truth. So like my ego does get very upset and agitated with the fact that like people throw that on me and like he's just another six-foot-five white guy that's full of himself that's always had everything given to him and it's like

no i've worked really hard to acquire what i have like everything i've gotten has all been through hard work and i feel like it goes unacknowledged and so that part of it yes i have an inflamed ego at times where i'm like i'm so sick of you all trying to discredit the hard work that i put in and you're you're trying to say that i'm this when i'm not like i would just see me as I am, but it doesn't seem like any of you want to see me as I am. You want to place upon my shoulders what you want me to be, which I feel is unfair. I really, I don't, I don't believe at all. I'm anywhere near that, you know, cocky, full of himself, D-bagged that has, you know, just always gotten his way. Like my life perception is completely different. So, and I'm trying to inspire people

to be like, hey, you can build this too. If you're not happy with your life, you can also acquire these things through hard work and determination. Like that's the message I'm trying to send. And it just it really feels like it's just blocked left and right everywhere I go. I will so, I will say I feel like I've explained myself less recently. Like I'm not going on as much of podcast to try to explain who I am anymore. But yeah, certainly you're on, you're right with that being something that I've been on a mission to try to do for so long is try to get people to see me for what I believe I am, which is I don't feel as in alignment with what, the perception has perceived or the public has perceived me in the past.

Like, I'm not a saint. I've tried to tell me about that from the jump. Like, I'm like, I am not a saint. Like, that's why this podcast that I have, you know, released right now, I told the producers, I said, portray me as I am. Like, the problem is when you try to make me seem like I'm this saint, like just good old Missouri boy, which I'm like, yeah, I got good Missouri roots. But, like, I'm also like.

Yeah. You're a bad boy, too. I don't know if I'm a bad boy. I wouldn't say that. But, I mean, I don't know. I guess the defense of your ass, but like, I'm just not a saint. It felt to me, I was getting death threats. I was getting people saying worst bachelor ever, you know,

trashing me left and right wherever they could, the follow up season with you and you and Gabby, Rachel, like. Well, the same thing happened to me. Yeah, I was not saying. I think there's like, yeah, you've got a right of too. There's like an entire like universe of just being a lead in itself, but going on reality TV. It's like, again, not to excuse it.

And it's not something that we obviously have to be okay with. but it is there's a level of or an expectation and rachel you mentioned this last week on our recording with rachel lindsay is that we then step into this zone or arena where we are everything that we do has to be without flaw like we are no we don't even get the grace to make an error or mistake which is the reality and anyone who watches this show if they were to step in our positions they would so so quickly learn that it is impossible to literally do this without making a even people who are deemed perfect. Their errors are there.

Trust and believe. And you're just saying, like, I, there was a safe path when I was the bachelor for me to be able to not be seen as a bad guy. Like, and I chose not to take that. And it was like, you know, I'm going to go follow my heart and I'm going to push through this. But there was a point at which I didn't have to, you know, like I could have just went a different direction and stayed away from any type of like massive blowup.

I mean, for the most part, you know, our season that we were on together, Rachel and I, like, it was, I'd say it's pretty boring. Like, overall, it was tracking towards boring. Like, boring, typical love story. And, like, that's what happens is leads are like, hey, if I'm supposed to lock in with one person and then I'll be given, you know, this great edit. Because, like, if I stay away from the drama and I lock in with one person, everyone's like, oh, like, it's such an incredible love story. I'll be honest. We had some pretty good villains, Clayton. I don't know if that's true.

I lived in that house. And you kept those villains around for a while. That's why y'all season was crazy, true. Yeah. We're not going to be like. Why they were kept around so long. You can only say so much. We're allowed to talk about it now.

I don't know. I don't trust it. We won't spend time talking about that today. What we're going to do. I do appreciate you, Clayton. Obviously, you're always so open. But I think the real reason is that I want to dive in and learn so much more about your podcast.

I was very fortunate to live. listen to two episodes and it's been amazing. Obviously, I know you've had a crazy past few years of months. So I would love to know. And you can kind of just take us through like your podcast, what's it about? You know, what was that like building it up? Tell us everything. Yeah. I mean, so look, like the podcast basically, it's all centered around me in a paternity scandal that end up also involving multiple other victims. And this is a now 10, I call like a 10 year operation that this woman has been conducting with involvement from her family. So it's a family or, you know, ordeal that they have orchestrated over the years to try to destroy men and their

reputation of men that don't want to be with her. So she, you know, with a lack of self-love, tries to attack and destroy the man to make, you know, him feel as poorly as she does. That's my belief as far as why she does it. But like this podcast basically takes you through the entire three years that I have been spending fighting this woman. So it takes you to the very beginning. And then it takes you through all the emails, the text messages, you know, the courts appearances. And it takes you all the way through that to where we get to at the end of the podcast, which will lead up right into the end of July, which is when she is facing 14 felonies. charges. So she faces trial at the end of July here. So to me, this is a bridge, like this

podcast, really what it's meant to do is to keep the fire hot so that we don't lose momentum going into this court case because she was offered an appeal. And I personally don't feel like it was enough to hold her accountable. And to me, if she gets off, she'll do it again, if she gets a slap on the wrist. So really, this is just one issue. Like, I'm fortunate, because I have, you know, privilege to be a former lead of a show. So, like, that's probably why, that's actually exactly why I got all the attention it got in the first place. These other men are private figures.

They didn't get that attention. So they didn't have help and support, like, what I've been able to pull in. So, you know, really, we're just now just kind of trying to band together and get accountability to be had. So that's what this podcast really is, is just a bridge into that final, you know, hearing on the, you know, late July to hopefully get her locked up. That's what we're shooting for. I Heart Radio is throwing it back.

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Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black IHartFect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I said, hi, dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen and she says, I have some cookies and milk. This is his badass convict.

Right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at him all. Yeah. On the senior show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to binge featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic.

and without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free IHAR radio app. Search the Cino Show and listen now. I was going to ask, what is your ideal outcome for the situation you want her in prison? Fell in with five to ten years. Yeah, that would be like my, you know, hope. And it's, I don't think it's unwarranted. I know some people have said like, oh, well, she didn't kill anybody.

She said that herself. But I don't like that. excuse. I think she really severely plagued my mental health and the mental health of the other men. And while none of us have, you know, taken our lives, like we got to points where we were, you know, very dark thoughts. And I'm like, you know, really, if it was up to her, she wouldn't have cared. And it was our decision to make whether we just, you know, we stayed or went. And so I'm like, she might as well have had tried to take us out. So I don't take it lightly. I don't take mental health lightly. I'm like, look, I think she deserves every bit of time behind bars.

She's still fighting it. She's still saying she's not guilty. So she hasn't had any accountability from the get go. So it's like the only thing we can do then is just like, you know, lock her up. And then hopefully in that isolation, she'll, you know, mentally break down and start to unpack what is so deeply rooted within her. Yeah. Do you mind me asking how is your mental health like I feel like in the present day after I mean you're still kind of obviously involved and it's still ongoing but how do you feel like it's upheld it so yeah I was uh I was just on like chat jv2 this morning actually because like they've gotten I've been very much tested like this year in 2026 with um just like life things with work um family things here and there and like

and just close friend that it's like there's been a lot of like issues popping up that have all hit at once. And like so for me, it's just been a, you know, time of like a lot of like I have to have really great resiliency. And, you know, but also I'm like, hey, look, like I'm no longer trying to, um, really prove myself. Like I'm not spending as much energy trying to prove myself. I'm just, you know, putting myself out there as I am.

Um, but like now that I am not a people pleaser anymore, because I would say I've probably ridden myself of that. I'm like, what am I? What's driving me? If it's not me trying to prove my worth and like, um, driving me. So I say all that to say, like, I had a very deep, like, thought process this morning. So it's fresh on my mind. Um, what is fine. It's just like I'm in this like reflective stage of my life where I'm like, if I'm not if, if, if the motivation to prove my worth is not

the main driving driver than what is. And I'm in this like weird in between stage where it's like, well, I don't have anything to prove. So why do I need to like, you know, show up and try to, you know, be great today. And it's like, well, want to. But all that to say like, there's always something to spin in my head. Yeah. So thanks for asking, but like, yeah, it's just like, think of course. Look, I have like, everything is great. I mean, overall, like, it's all perspective. Like, I'm just, I'm just like, I really feel like I went most of my life with my brain switched off.

No, like, emotions were ever really discussed or thought about. Like, I didn't really feel like, I didn't really know what emotional emotions I was feeling. I was just like existing. And then all of a sudden, like, I'll never forget. I said in college to one of my exes. She said she was having an anxiety attack. I said, well, why don't you just like not think about it? Like that's how ignorant I was to emotions.

Yeah. I said that to her face. I was like, well, I just don't think about it, you know, that that. And that's why I don't get anxiety. I said that's too. I guess that's how it works. But like that was how ignorant I was to emotions and regulation. So like, I'm still like, okay, from that point removed, I don't know, seven years.

And it's like, you know, meanwhile, women are just emotional, you know, like they're, they're very like emotionally regulated and they, they're, they mature faster. So I feel like I'm playing catch up. I'm like, I'm a guy absent. from doing this. So now I'm just trying to like get to a place where I can be caught up and act my age. Yeah. Or a little, maybe.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I listened to both the episodes. I thought the narrator, I think she does like a really awesome job at telling the story. How did you get approached for this? Was it you that was seeking out a platform? No, I, um, I had like companies keep reaching out time. I probably had five companies that reached out.

And by like three of them, I was. I said no too because I just didn't think the production quality was there. But there was interest. People were like, hey, we want to really tell your story. We think this is this needs to be heard. And so then when they reached out, I did some background on like what they had, you know, created prior. And I was like, this is actually like to the level that I would want it to be told at. Like I don't want to just like do a podcast to do a podcast.

I want to be able to like put something out there that is impactful and that will make a difference and we'll share, you know, the story and the way that it needs to be. told and Stephanie has become a close, you know, good friend of mine now. She's listening to me talk so much that like I've gotten tired of talking to her only because I'm tired of hearing. But she's like, hey, like she listens to all of it. She's a great listener. And I was like, this is the right person. Like it's a lot of information.

So yeah, it just happened to kind of manifest. And I was, I didn't want to do the podcast at first. I only wanted like, I was like, I'm only doing this if it's documentary. But then they convinced me and, you know, and I'm glad I did it. Like at this point, it's been so. to see the other victims, how like hope has like come back into them. Like they, they lost it for a long period of time. And so I've seen the strength come back. And it's just like, wow, this has become bigger than me. Not to mention like the 20 to 30, you know, DMs I've gotten

of men or or women that know like their brother that's went through something similar. It's like, okay, this is actually, you know, inspiring and giving people hope. Like there's something bigger here. So if we platform it to a higher degree, maybe this, you know, impacts even more people. Yeah. I noticed when I was listening that Susie was interviewed, has she been supportive during all this or what's her role been in all this? Yeah. She was like in the, I was saying the mix of it. Like I think I kind of talked about this in the podcast or I've said in another podcast. I had seen Susie like a week and a half prior to me actually like hooking up with this Laura girl. Wow. So I was really, really bothered by like when I met up with Susie, like a lot of the old emotions came back and it was like maybe we should try this again. And like it was a lot of those feelings.

And so I ended up, you know, getting like, I went home and I was like using marijuana heavily to like cope because I was just trying to numb myself. Because I just I felt overwhelmed with emotion. And it was just I was like, I just need to like cut this feeling out. I can't handle this with sober mind. And so as like it started to begin, like I had just seen her. So we were already kind of like just chatting a little bit. And I shared this with her. And so then she was just kind of like in the background, you know, just like provide.

They'd be like, well, hey, I support you and whatever I can do to help. So she was she was there at like the beginning of it. And that's why, you know, they approached her because I had brought up. I was like, yeah, the reason why I even like was under the influence of marijuana that night and decided to engage with this Laura girl was because I was like medicating myself with marijuana, like just trying to cope with the emotions that were coming up from like the previous weekend when I was. Oh, wow.

Wow. Yeah, that's how that came about. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, this is just such a crazy story. I mean, I feel like a lot of people do know about it, but there's a huge majority that don't. Right. What's the message that you want to get out like with this podcast? Yeah, I mean, a couple of things.

I think the two would be, you know, fight for yourself because no one will fight as hard as you do. I mean, I think, like, you know, I decided to, when she went public, I decided to throw a, you know, microscope on it. And I was like, you know, to grab the megaphone. I was like, hey, if we're going to do this, like, I got nothing to hide, guys. So like, I'm going to fight for justice and I'm going to bring you all along. Like, I'm not going to be ashamed of what, you know, I've done. And, you know, I'm just going to defend myself because if I don't do it, no one is. And she'll take advantage of me. So I would say, you know, to stand up, like if you feel like you've been wrong, like fighting for yourself. And then also just I hope this inspires people or just like shows them the power of, you know, many.

So the power of a community. I mean, this wouldn't be a podcast. You know, I wouldn't have gotten legal representation and this wouldn't have made it as far as it has. If it wasn't for this community, that's, you know, that has revolved around me and the other men and, you know, has paid legal fees at times for us. for the end and to and push this along and uncovered new information. It really shows like the power of a community. So, you know, if you think like no one's going to, you know, support me, you don't know, obviously until you speak up.

And when I spoke up, I had no idea that this magnitude of, of a community would be created. So hopefully it gets other people to be like, hey, maybe if I speak up, I'll have some support there that can help me as well. For sure. No. I mean, I just cannot imagine. and I really can't. I know.

It is really so, like, even just like I was telling Rachel, like listening to your first two episodes. Like I've followed some majority of the case, but just like the intricate details, it's just so mind-blowing. And I obviously, like, I commend you for even just having the courage to speak out about this. But I know obviously there's like a deeper intention and reason, which I know for a fact, like you said, you are helping so many other people who find. themselves, unfortunately, in these situations. But we are obviously reading for you, Clayton. Like, we are happy to have you and talk about this anytime. But before we go, I do want to end the episode with something super, super fun, a little more lighthearted. This is a crazy question I'm going to ask you, but I need your full transparent. No, don't get scared.

Relax. It's not that. I'm not scared. I'm not. I like, I like, you said this is like the crazy. It's cause of everything we've already said. I mean, I'm just curious what your answer is going to be. Okay. So we're going to do a little would you rather. So, but only, you only get two options. Okay. Get casted on dancing with the stars, but unfortunately you're eliminated the very first week or go get cast on Taylor Frankie Paul's Bachelorette season, but she says no to your proposal at the very end. So you're one of the final two. Not the, not the palms.

That's actually like, I said if I said if I went on dancing with the stars ever, I was like, I just would not want to get sent home night one. That's exactly the same concern I had when I went on the Bachelorette. I was like, I don't want to get sent home night one. But I mean, it's kind of like, it's kind of a. They're both, they're both hard. Because technically, if you were a final two, that means I would hope that you're invested at that point. Yeah, I mean, I guess I guess, see, I can't like overanalyze this whole thing. I was like, obviously I would be into her at that point. I would have been like, oh, I really like this girl.

Right. That's hard. I don't know. You know, I. You're not picking dancing that the stars immediately is throwing me off. I know. That was simple. Because that's such an honor, I think, even to just get cast.

That was my first thought, but then I was like starting to overthink it. I was like, well, to be honest with you, like, I'm not trying to say anything here. And she's, I'm probably not her type. But like, Taylor Frankie Paul is just not my type. So I was like, I wouldn't, like, I wouldn't make it to the final two. So that's not really realistic. But if I did, like, because I also. You might be her type.

Yeah, you never know. But I also wouldn't stick it out just to stick it out all the way till the end. Yeah, yeah. Like that's just not, I don't, I wouldn't care to do that. So, yeah, I guess it would be dance with the stars. I mean, as long as I get that initial paycheck, we're good. And listen, they always bring back the entire cast at the finale. So you will get more than one opportunity to dance and showcase your skill.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I guess that would be the simple answer. I don't know why. I haven't. No, okay. Yeah, I get that. I think I was expecting that answer out of you. Me too.

Yeah. Okay. Well. That was good. That was fun, guys. Yeah, thanks. I appreciate you. Obviously, just give me a platform.

to talk about this and it's always like you guys have been both super great obviously charity i got to talk to you i think the first time was it was it was it grant's a frar that was the first yeah it was a far yeah yeah and you it's awesome with you and uh dot and like how great things are going uh from what i can see you guys are just super sweet um so it's like obviously this process you know it does work very well and it's like cool to see you guys going strong um and then you know then rachel and i will find our uh well rachel you actually last i heard little birdie you were at least at one point talking to somebody please i can't even get into that oh cut this whole thing are we dropping pause are we dropping jims right now or is yours i mean i we're not tight we're cutting this

i know i like you said like i wasn't afraid to say gabby's name earlier so i'm not afraid i'll just i'll also say this other person's okay and they're going to cut it out this is my podcast. Bye, Clayton. Here we go. You know, we're going to leave things as they are in a good standing because I just love peace and happiness for all parties involved. So with that being said, thank you, Clayton. Again, we appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you and your vulnerability and your courage to speak out on all things. But truly, I think it's really important. And as you know, I'm a huge advocate for mental health.

So I really do look up to you for that and respect you for that. But that's all that we're going to talk about on today's episode. But we would love to have you back anytime. Please feel free to come. But yeah, with that being said, thank you so much for coming on. And that's it. Rachel, anything you want to add to that? No, thank you, Clayton, for coming on.

I'm sure it was not easy to log on and have to face me and charity's questions, but you did amazing. and we look forward to listening to the rest of the podcast. I'm hooked already. So everyone go listen to that if you get the chance. And thank you again for coming on. And you guys, make sure to like and subscribe.

We'll have new episodes soon. And we don't have an ending yet. If you have any ideas, we'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Next Monday, our 2026 IHeart podcast awards are happening live at South by Southwest.

It's the biggest night in podcasting. We'll honor the very best in podcasting from the past year and celebrate the most innovative talent and creators in the industry. And the winner is... Creativity, knowledge, and passion will all be on full display. Thank you so much. IHeartRadio. Thank you to all the other nominees. You guys are awesome. Watch live next Monday at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific, free at Veeps.com or the Veeps app.

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Brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council. This Woman's History Month, the podcast, Keep It Posit, Sweetie, celebrates the power of women choosing healing, purpose, and faith, even when life gets messy. Love is not a destination. You have to work on it every day. Keep it positive, sweetie, creates space for honest conversations on self-worth, love, growth, and navigating life with grace and grid led by women who uplift, inspire, and tell the truth out loud. I have several conversations with God, and I know why. It took the 20 years.

To hear this and more, listen to Keep It Posit, Sweetie, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's the new me, and it's the old. Them. This Woman's History Month, the podcast, If You Knew Better with Amber Grimes, spotlights women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power. My like tunnel vision of like, I gotta achieve this was off the strengths of like, I want to make a better life for us. If You Knew Better brings real talk from women who've lived it, unpacking career pivots, relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts that changed everything.

Listen to If You Knew Better with Amber Grimes on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Heather Dubrow. And I'm Terry Dubrow. And we're going to keep this between us. Not really. The TMZ guy walks up to me, goes, Terry, what do you think about Bradley Cooper? They asked him and they said he's not had any plastic surgery. What's the latest rumor?

I'm gay, right? Isn't that the latest rumor? Yes. First of all, if I were gay, I would be gay. Listen to Between Us on America's number one podcast network, Iheart. Follow between us and start listening on the free Iheart radio app today. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.