Bachelor Happy Hour - Clayton on His Journey of Growth

Episode Date: December 14, 2022

Clayton joins “Bachelor Happy Hour” this week, and he’s reflecting on all the personal growth he has undergone in this last year. In a vulnerable conversation with Becca and Michelle, Clayton opens up about his social media presence and how he deals with hate comments, shares some exciting updates, including details on his new book, and offers some advice for Zach as his journey on “The Bachelor” begins. Plus, he explains how Susie continues to positively influence his life and reveals whether he is dating again! Don’t forget to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode.See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What's up? Happy Hour listeners. I'm one of your host, Becca Kufrin. And I am Michelle Young. Woo! She is back, baby. I'm back finally. No, I missed you.

And I missed just being on the show in general. There's been a lot going on and trying to, you know, recover from mystery illnesses. Yes. I feel like everyone has been sick these days. There's obviously not even just something, but multiple things going around. So I understand you need to take some time off and heal. And you've also been traveling like crazy. So what did it? I think that's where I'm like need to slow down a little bit. It's your body's way of telling you to rest. It made me slow down to the point where it's like I can't even get on a flight to go back to LA. But it's, you know, you've been under the weather. with everything. It's just, yeah, this time of year, I feel like everybody gets wiped out by something and it was like, I'm good. I'm not good. I'm great. I'm not good. I know. Just when you think you're getting better, something else hits you. Exactly. But no, we're good. We're like 98%. Okay. I'll take it. I'll take it. As long as I can see your shining face, which by the way,

everyone, Michelle looks radiant. She's always radiant, but like you look stunning. You got your cute little glasses on today. I got my Blu-Lay glasses on. You look great. And I'm so excited to have you back. I'm also excited to have our guest on this week. It's been a long time since we have had him on Happy Hour and very soon we're going to have our guy Clayton pop in. Before he pops on though, Michelle, what's new with you? And again, you've been traveling like crazy. You've been between L.A. and Minnesota. You were just at, what was it, Jingle Bell or Iheart? Both. Yeah.

Both. Okay. So IHeart puts on like this yearly event called Jingle Ball. It was so fun to drag my parents. Mom and Dad's got to get. Yeah, they got to come onto the red carpet with me for a little bit to do an interview. It was, it was pretty funny. It was great.

And just been traveling a lot, been trying to get healthy, been, you know, spending a lot of time with, like, my family. And also like creating some excitement. exciting things that are coming up, but I can't say quite yet. Oh, okay, well, you know, I'm calling you later today to pick your brain about this. Don't worry. I'll sell you in. Yes, but the world can't know quite yet. But what about you? How are you doing? You and I haven't, we've texted a little bit, but we haven't, like, actually been able to catch up, like, on the phone or anything. I know. I feel like every time we talk on the phone, too, we talk for so long. And I've, because, like, we've both been sick. I've missed

that. But life's good. We had an event. You were going to actually try to come. I know for my wine line, obviously you couldn't because you weren't feeling the best, but yeah, we had a big holiday event for my wine line, Bordeaux a week ago, and it was so fun. Such a blast. It's something that I think

we want to keep up. There's a local shop down by where I live and we want to just keep it up every couple months at least twice a year. So if anyone is ever in the area, I will keep you posted, but definitely something that we want to keep reoccurring throughout the year.

Um, yeah, and then, um, please do. Yes, we would love to see you. And that's really it. Like, we've been trying to get ready for the holidays, but we really can't because we don't have room for Christmas tree. So, um, that's been interesting. No room at all. No, I mean, just because of the, the renovations are, like, it's just, it's just, it's, it's the house is just not set up. So it's, and we're not even in there to enjoy the Christmas tree. So I set up like a little mini Christmas tree and some nutcrackers in our guest house that, That's like our one holiday thing that we have near us, but yeah, life's been good. I mean, just getting ready for next year, which is going to be crazy town with all the weddings

and our own wedding planning that we're doing. So, yeah, it's a lot, a lot's going to happen, I think, in the next month or so. Okay, wait, can you give the listeners like a little inside scoop of where you're at for your wedding planning? We're really not anywhere, to be honest. Okay, that's somewhere. All we know. Actually, I'm going to throw this out to the listeners. Okay, so I've mentioned this before. We really want to do just like a small intimate ceremony with our immediate family in Ohio, California, which is pretty tiny. It's not a big town by any means. So it's slim pickings for wedding venue. So if anyone knows of maybe a private place or a very unique place, we don't need anything big or fancy. We just, We really just want to go to Ohio because we love the region and we love the restaurants there. The food scene is phenomenal.

So that's what we're going to. So if anyone has any Ohio recommendations, please let me know. DM me, email me. The email is in my bio on my Instagram. DM Bachelor. Happy hour. Let us know because I feel like that's the main stressor of wedding planning right now. And I just also don't like to plan.

So I'm like, I don't know where we're going to get married. it'll happen when it happens, which is not the way to, you know, plan a wedding, I guess. Does the person who gives a recommendation get to come to the wedding? Do they get an invite? Maybe. Well, I'm just kidding. I don't know. Really good or really bad.

I don't know to the wedding itself because if we're not having like our best friends there, if we're only having family, I feel like that would be a bad look. Our friends would hate us. But I will send a multi-pack of my wine to whoever. Perfect. gives us the good recommendation that we maybe lock in, so keep that in mind. Okay. Challenge.

Challenge is out there. Oh, my God. I love when you say challenge. It just reminds me so much of back home of Minnesota. I said it, challenge? Challenge. Challenge. Challenge.

Oh, God. See? I get stuck there and this is what happens. Oh, my gosh. We got to go out of Minnesota one of these times that we're both home. I swear we got to just tear up the town. It would be a disaster. Let's do it. My kind of disaster. Sign me up. Okay. Well, I think it's at time. I know we have been wanting to chat with him for a while, pick his brain on so many

random things. So let's bring on Clayton to Happy Hour. Welcome. Once again to Happy Hour, Clayton. It's been a hot minute. But how have you been since we got it's been like what a year i think since we've had you on uh probably yeah i was just thinking about all that's happened and uh i got a few notifications on my phone of like this is your the past year what's happened and i couldn't believe that this much time had transpired but yeah we've not a little couple things to change if you as you pointed out the mustache and the hair and a few other things internally so uh it's been it's been good though i've really enjoyed um really just kind of where i'm at today and it's good to see y'all

you too okay well clayton oh well it's nice to see your face i feel like we haven't we briefly have like spoken checked in with each other but um a lot has changed for you but i need to know one thing on my season the guys gave you the name they can nickname clato if you recall okay do you still get called that has that changed well i retired that's that obviously comes that you you heard me i mean you heard me do it i freestyled for you once uh i oh i i remember yeah yeah so um i don't do i don't freestyle anymore just because uh some things are better to leave in the past that was a big period of self reflection that was one of them i was like you know he's like i'm a retired rapper now you're

approaching 30 you should probably hang it up man i'm still so mad i never heard any of these lines If I have enough drinks in me, there's a chance that I could be encouraged again, but I'm completely sober as I sit here right now, so it's not happening. Okay, maybe one day. Way too funny. Okay, Clint, we have a lot to ask you about just, we obviously need you to catch us up on life and we're living and everything, but before I just need to know, because I know you and Thomas were talking about this earlier today.

You started this very interesting diet that I don't think I've ever heard of before. We're going to call it the caveman diet where you're. you're only eating meat. Is that correct? It's like straight meat. So I don't know full certainty, but I called it the carnivore diet. It's what I was following from a doctor that had reached out to me, actually. Maybe the caveman might incorporate like nuts and berries and stuff. I don't know. So I think there might be a distinguishing factor between the two. I was eating just meat. I say was because that lasted all of nine days. And then I went to Nashville over the weekend and threw back some drinks, threw back some burgers,

had some Waffle House. So it's just, it wasn't sustainable because I was having this conversation with my friend. I said, hey, I got to land and I'm going to have to go to the grocery store and buy meat so that I can prep my breakfast at your house. And then we had to change our reservations to all these really nice restaurants that we had because I had to accommodate what I was eating. And I just thought, I'm like, you know, I didn't really need to change my diet. I was doing this as an experiment.

So this is already proving to be more stressful. to adhere to it so okay so the all-meat diet is no more i still eat sirloins for breakfast like i'm still try and eat less processed foods okay but i'm adding in now fruits and uh and then on the weekends i'm just like do whatever i want to do balance all part of a well-balanced diet how dare you do that to chipotle well and you know what the sad thing so uh i think i mentioned this before so of all the things that i went through my my greatest gift was chipotle gave me a card but I handed it off to my brother because at the time I was like I can't eat this anymore man yeah so I hit it to him and then when I got back from the trip I was like give it back to me

I didn't need it back was that the longest you went without having chippole because you were getting more like two burritos every day I was eating a lot of chippole but I will say though now there's been good it's come from this diet I'm more I'm more cognizant of what I'm intaking and so now I've been reading more about seed oils and the harmful effects of it and how certain you know, restaurants can be putting seed oil on the meats, which causes the inflammation. So I can just say this, I love Chipotle. The one downside is when I eat it, it does not do me well. I end up paying the price.

So I'm wondering if the seed oils or whatever, something's there. But now I'm like, okay, I'm just going to taper back a little bit. It doesn't really hurt to have some more home-cooked meals. So I'm cooking more. So that's another positive. Nice. Look at you. It's all about growth.

But I was apparently, I was apparently cooking the meat. meats and too high of a temperature. So I was smoking out the house. And apparently that's like, then you're ingesting harmful chemicals from like the oil that you're burning. So I was just, I'm like, I'm just really screwing everything. You're like, I'm just trying to learn here. Trading one for the next. And I'm like learning. I'm with my brother right now. And yeah, as you can see, I'm in the look at this, look at this setup. You guys might actually. So you guys, you guys probably recognize these. Yep. Oh, yes. Got that. I still have, I have my bags from like years ago with the duct tape on them. Yeah. Why don't you take the duct tape?

off. Because it's actually really great when I travel. Yeah, you know it's yours. Easiest to find. Memories. Yeah. That's great. Currently, yeah, I just bumming with my brother until I'm going to buy a house next month or two. But yeah, it's just me. He's just like, hey, man, my house is starting to smell like me 24-7. Like, we're going to have to talk about this long-term thing. I was like, don't worry. I don't finish my real estate license. I'll be out of your, be out of your hair here soon. So. Okay. So you're in Scottsdale, correct? You and your brother? And when did you officially move down there? Back here, two and a half months ago now, I guess. Gotcha. Okay. Are any other bachelor people living near you? I feel like there's always city like pockets where a lot of people are.

All right. Oh, yeah. Okay. The next question. Why do I think? Oh, sorry. I'm kidding. Who's Ari?

I totally just. Never heard of it. I do. I got to understand that I am learning more about the best. backstory now, but I didn't really watch the show prior, so I was like, okay. I'm just giving you crap. I'm about it. My face is going to get red now is right as this. I know. You're totally I will say I've only been there once and it's a beautiful area. It really is like obviously the weather's great year round, but there's so much to do outdoors. Like the hikes there are

incredible. Yeah. No, it's awesome. We were just last week or two weeks ago, no, we were hiking this place called Tom's Thumb and it's it's just and right now it's it's rained a little bit because I guess throughout the entire country right now there's this big like snowstorm and rain and all this but uh for it to be like 70 degrees in December is ridiculous like I'm so I'm used to Missouri where it's just I'm sure like Michelle you probably used to this up north too you're now out in L.A. right? I am out in L.A. part time. So well kind of go I bounce back and forth. Okay. But okay. So your experience you know what I'm talking about. Your experience seeing all the West Coast beautiful time of year where we're like, wait, we had to go through

all this snow and put up with it for all these years. Yeah, you're like, why did I live there for 20 plus years? Exactly. No, I feel that. It is nice to like step outside and not have your like nose hairs freeze together. It's kind of quite refreshing. But how have you been? How have things been in Scottsdale?

Was it kind of like a reset? I mean, what are you up to? I know that you're hiking. You're working out. What else is going on for you? Yeah, for me, things been awesome. I feel that coming out here really forced this reset in my mind. So I thought the second I hit the ground and I'm in Scottsdale, this is the new chapter

of my life. And so I just kind of framed it that way in my head. And I said, you know, going forward, all these things that I've experienced, I'm going to come to terms with them, the good and the bad and take what it from I can, like what I can find the silver linings that I can always say that a lot now, but I do believe it. I'm like, find all the silver lining is from everything I experienced. And then you're going to move forward and stop looking back and trying to change what you can't change at this point. The only thing I can change is my mind.

I can't change the action. So, yeah, I did that. And moving kind of just really helped me get in that headspace where I was like fresh start. And now it's been awesome. Like I am doing what I love. I found a good balance. Actually, there's still some uncertainty and stuff like with what I'm doing. I mean, as you guys know, post show, you know, reality TV, I feel, and maybe you guys can expand

on this. I was just thinking about it myself. I struggled personally with the post show, my identity. I was like, who do I need to be post show? And I was like, first I was trying to be what I thought people wanted me to be. So I was posting what I thought people wanted me to post. And when I posted what I thought people liked, the engagement was high. When I posted what I wanted to post, the engagement was low.

But then what bothered me was, I was. I was like, I don't want to be posting what others want me to post. I want to post what I'm passionate about. And eventually people will come around to that. And if I lose followers, whatever, that's fine. But I want to be enjoying what I'm doing. So I went through this whole phase where like I despise social media because I, I didn't like how I was over analyzing it and trying to please everybody else.

Like I had been doing it for so much, so much my life. So now I'm in a place. So I'm like, I'm doing me. I'm doing what I think is best. I'm trying to share my experiences. If you like it, you do. If you don't, then you don't have to like it. You can unfollow whatever.

But that's put me in a much better headspace. And I don't know if you guys can relate to that. If you went through that. Absolutely. A thousand percent. I think it's so similar to Clayton is like, you know, you played, you played collegiate sports. Like you, you know, we're an athlete, everything. And then once you either are forced to or decide to put your, that career down,

it's like this whole identity crisis. wait who am I now because you dedicated your entire life to do this and now you didn't dedicate your entire life to be the bachelor maybe you did who knows like if you did good job I feel like you're like the one percent that'd be able to plan it out like that but but it really is you try to figure out who what are you doing now I mean you some people go back to their careers a lot of people don't go back to their careers or it's just like this different moment and then all of these layers of social media pop in but for you so much has changed in the last year And a crazy amount, are you ready to pass the Bachelor Baton onto Zach?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You're like, take it. He's like, let me throw it to you. From what I've, yeah, well, I would, and I haven't talked with him. And, you know, I think maybe, I don't know, I, from what I've seen edits and all that so far, or promos, he seems like he's probably on a lot better path. I didn't, I haven't seen any drama pop up. I mean, my line's always open to him.

But I also kind of left it at, well, if he wants to reach out, if he ever wants to talk, I'm here. But I've been hearing a lot of really great things about him and how I think he's navigated it a little bit better. So I'm ready to pass it off to him. I think what I did was just come in and be a complete train wreck. So I'm like, hey, buddy, here's the bar. You can just go ahead and elevate it from here on out. So, you know, I'm always there. My line's always open to them.

And I'm sure there's going to be some things he'll struggle with. And if you ever wants to have a discussion, obviously, as we've done before, I've done with both of you guys. We're ahead and now we know what to expect. And I think perspective and insight is so helped me tremendously because I realize like, oh, wait, I'm not alone in this. And I will go through this period of struggling. And I will face these comments. But just as they got through it, I will too. so I think that type of insight will be the helpful

and I don't know if you guys have spoken to him I'm sure you probably have but no no we haven't we had him on our podcast like when he was still in the middle of Gabby and Rachel's season but that was the last time so we have we have no idea I'm sure we'll have him on very soon once his season starts who would you say like was there anyone from bachelor nation whether it be other contestants cast members or former leads that helped you

not only like when your season was airing but that weird transition period after too like is there anyone that you got great advice from or that you're still super close with yeah i mean i'm not just saying this because i'm here but you guys both reached out to me a couple few times so i appreciated you guys reaching out um just because i knew i'm like okay i'm not alone in this so you all did a great job i i would say the person that really was going like like really going like and constantly checking in that I was impressed by was Caitlin Bristow she she checked in a lot with me and I just wasn't expecting it from her and so she had a lot of great advice and I had since found out that

she went through a somewhat similar circumstance I mean not obviously the exact same but there were certain things that she was you know people went after her for that were similar to what I did so we were able to talk about that and she shared a lot of what happened with her after the show and how she struggled and it took her some time but then hearing all that I didn't even know half the stuff that she went through she was heard a podcast recently she opened up about I think she was talking about struggles she was having and things coping mechanisms that she was using and come to find out I'm like I had no idea because I'm looking at you right now and you're so successful and you like seem to have it all figured out. So to hear you be vulnerable and talk about this side that I didn't get to see makes me feel that, okay, I'm here as well right now, but I can get to where you're at as well. So it's, she was really awesome. But I've had almost a lot of people have reached out.

I talked to Matt James. He's been incredible. I mean, former Bachelor, just nice to have somebody that's exactly through it. So he gave me his perspective and it's just been really helpful. Yeah, it is good to see that I feel like it, like you said, it's very easy to come from the show and feel like you're in this secluded bubble where you're like, no one's going to understand. I can't talk to my family and friends. Like, they're not going to fully get it. So having people like that is, I mean, it definitely, and I can only speak for myself, but some of those

former leads, like you said, Caitlin definitely helped get me through, like right after my season where I was like, you know, I was used to one thing for so long and working in public relations and now everything is like turned on its head. Where do we go from here? But I will say for you, it seems like you've had a lot of life changes in this past year. Like it's probably a totally different life than you ever expected. But you seem to finally be able to like, and I don't want to say like find your footing, but you feel like you're coming into yourself. And I will say like just following you on social media and speaking out like for mental health and public speaking and reaching out to others and sharing your story, I think is so empowering. And that's been really,

really fun to see how do you feel like when you started opening up about mental health like did you feel like okay i can finally make a difference and how my voice be heard like what was that whole process like for you yeah for me um when i was younger uh i suppressed a lot of my struggles and i think a lot of people do in general because they're the fear of being judged so i kept everything within and that didn't ever help me solve my problems i was just pushing it away and piling up the the Trump essentially. And so when I hit college, I started to have these conversations with my good friends about my body dysmorphia and just things that I'd struggle with, not feeling good enough. And I was received with open arms. I had thought for so long

that if I opened up, I would almost push myself farther away from people. And that would happen if I opened up to the wrong people. They would weaponize it against me. But with the right people, it actually brings you closer together. So I started to have these more, more conversations. You know, Michelle, when I was on your season, we talked about how I struggled with feeling good enough. And you were very just comforting in that moment and said all the things that I need to know

and just saying, like, you know, you are good enough. You're going to make someone really happy. What I've seen, like, you're a great person. And it was very validating. And that was, again, the more times that I did that and opened up, I was like, wow, like I'm not pushing people away. I'm actually building stronger connections and it makes me feel less alone. And I'm realizing I'm not the only person that's dealing with this.

So then as I started talking about it, I would get more and more people that would reach out. I talked about bias morphia on my season, found out more than a few of the women, then struggle with it as well. And then post show, when it aired, I had people in my DMs messaging me saying, thank you so much for talking about this. I've never been able to tell anybody because I was afraid of being seen as less of a human being. And so that's what really then I had this moment where I thought, okay, you have this platform where you can impact a lot of people more than you ever could have. So how are you going to use it? Like, what are you going to do?

You do enjoy having these conversations getting to know people. So share your experiences. And that's what I've been doing. And but I, you know, I've learned a lot through doing so. There's been times where I've shared my experiences and, you know, know, I got to be careful because especially with mental health, you got to be very careful as an advocate to not obviously clinically diagnose anybody. I'm not an expert. But you have to be careful with the things that you say because it can, you know, the words matter and somebody can take

what you say and end up using it, but out of context or in their own lives where it could hurt them. So like where I'm at right now is I'm trying, and I am, it's really great, but I'm starting to partner up with psychologists and therapists. I'm going to therapy. So I'm starting to just become more well-versed and share my experiences, de-stigmatize mental health, but then bring an expert with me. So it's like, hey, I'm going to just talk about my struggles. And then here's the expert who's going to give you some tools to overcome these things or better manage it in general. So it's been really great. And I just, it's fulfilling. And I wake up every day and I'm looking forward to the weeks. I'm not just looking forward to the weekends anymore. I enjoy doing what I'm

doing. So it's been cool. That's incredible. That's such a powerful thing to be able. able to do is not have those like Sunday scleries as people always call them where you're just like just doubting or just worrying about the week that's coming ahead because that's so much of your life is like those five days that if you just dread those five days that's like a huge part of that so it's really cool and it's also that you're you'd say you're like receiving positive feedback as you're being vulnerable, like even on social media. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Well, I've blocked a lot of people. So that helps. Good. That's empowering in itself. Yes. It feels good. Yeah, that was something that was, that's been my best friend on social media. I'm like, oh, you want to say that about me, block goodbye?

You'll never see my post ever again. So it's just I think, but, you know, at first I'm like, oh, I don't want to block people. I don't want to restrict their voice. But I'm like, you know what? I'm not restricting their voice. I'm restricting their voice on my platform. form. And this is my space to choose what I want to put out there. And you don't have any right to come in and make these comments. You can, but sometimes there's repercussions. And honestly,

I'm like, if you're getting blocked, that's not the worst thing in the world. You'll be okay without having to see myself. But also I'm like, this is, I'm trying to spread positivity. So I was like, there is no place for this. If you really feel this way about me, keep it to yourself, go on another platform, share it on the other platforms, other forms. That's fine. You have a right to do that. And if I go searching for it, that's my fault if I get upset. But if you come to my spot and do it, then there's going to be the repercussions. And it's not crazy. It's just get blocked, you know?

Yeah. And they're probably going to do it to someone else at some other time. And it's like, when will they learn? Right. Like, and again, you're above the positivity. Yeah, my thought is this is, and maybe they don't think anything of it if I block them. They're like, good, you know, good, you know, fine. I'm glad you blocked me. I didn't like you anyways. But I think if more people start blocking people when they're being negative, it may start to get them to be like, you know what? nobody wants to hear this. So maybe I should start to reflect and realize maybe I should be a bit more positive and stop hitting send on these comments because I've seen other people that are loved and they block people for talking badly about somebody else. And they're like, why are you

blocking me? And it's like because they don't like it either. And maybe now that person will go, okay, maybe I should have to stop doing this. Like block party. It's a black party. So I let me ask you this then because I think one of your more recent posts that you posted on Instagram it was a video it was you know you were public speaking and you had a screen behind you of like all these different DMs or comments that people wrote to you and they were all you know very negative terrible hateful things to say has anyone if whether you've called them out or if they've maybe just come across you seeing what what like they did posted on your page has anyone apologized or are they like or do you get this which I

I'm sure, Michelle, you probably received this too. If you respond to them, are they like, oh, my gosh, I'm sorry. I didn't think you were going to see that. That is always the response I would get when I would call people out for saying something hurtful, negative. Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry, I didn't think you were going to see that. It's like, then why take the time to type it? Like, what's the point in that? Yeah, I mean, that was a shock to me when I started getting those messages.

Like an instant change of tune. Oh, my gosh, I think you would see this. I actually think you're a really great guy and you just made some mistakes. And I was, and I'm like, you know, but then I started to really, when I would get these messages at first, I would block people. Because I just, because at that point, I was already so high up with my stress level that I couldn't take the time to have a conversation with those individuals because I was already high stress. So I was like, I just need to keep knocking my stress down. And so right now, you're not worth my time and effort to have a conversation with. So I'm just going to block you.

But then I thought now I'm in a place where I'm in a much better head space. So now when somebody says something vile or whatever negative to me, I'll usually respond with just a simple question. They say, you know, Clayton, you are a terrible human being. You don't deserve to be happy. I'll just send back to them. I'll just say, I respect your opinion. Can you please explain me why you think this? And just ask them a question.

Most times they're like, you know, now they have to sit here and give reasons why they hate me. And they can't probably. They probably can't. Gosh, that's so hard, though. They can. Like, they, people, like, there was one recently, just recently. They, they, they said, well, what you did on the season and you hurt people. And, um, I said, I said, I did.

I'm like, you're exactly right. I said, but do you believe that I can learn from my lessons and then share my experiences to help others? And they said, well, yeah. And I said, so I said, so that's all I'm trying to do. Then they DMs me and they said, I, I, I, I, the last thing I said, as I go, that's all I'm trying to do. said, it's okay. I appreciate you. Like, you have your right to your opinion. I just think you could have went about the first comment you sent a little bit better because it kind of, it felt like it was, it was meant to tear me down. And it affected me. That person went into my DMs and

said, I am so sorry. I didn't mean to like hurt you. Like, that wasn't my intention. You know, what I was doing, honestly, was I was projecting my own insecurities onto you from my past relationships. And, you know, I, I'm sorry for doing that because you don't deserve it. And I found, realized that's what I was doing. I've had that conversation now that I've been willing to have conversations with people, that happens a lot. It's more times than I can count now where they're like, I'm projecting my own insecurities onto you. And so I believe that to be the case when I have individuals that lash out and say something negative about me that are strangers. I'm like, you don't know me. And they think they do. But the truth is they don't. You don't know me from

like you saw what I did. And I take accountability. And I was not smart. with what I did on the show. I had the best of intentions, but I did lack empathy. You know, I was reckless. I was, you know, I was immature. Like, I just was. And I still probably am to some degree, but I'm at least growing. Aren't we all?

But, you know, that's where I had to realize that these people, like, this is reflecting back to them. They're saying this about me, but the fact is, is that none of the people that are closest to me are saying this. If the people closest to me were saying this, yeah, then there'd be an issue. Then I, and not just, again, I'm not to dissolve anything that I've done. I did things wrong. And of course, people around me in my inner circle were like, hey, you know, you didn't, you know,

we understand why you did these things. But I was like, yeah, okay, that's fine. But there is a whole other side to the coin that I need to listen to and understand. Because I'm, my decisions have, you know, or my actions have impact. And so I actually learned, I think part of the transition in my head to be. becoming more insightful and mindful was I was reading the opposition. I was going to like the negative places and I was trying to pull constructive criticism and I actually ended up finding a comment that really kind of kicked my mind in the gear where I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't knowingly

lack empathy, but I did. Like I was, I was emotionally immature and I read that on Reddit. I'll give them credit. I'll give credit credit. They've said a lot of negative things, but like I read that comment and I was like, wow, you know, I need to look more within and realize that I, there's things that I can change about myself to be a better person. So Caitlin Bristow said, she goes, don't go shopping for pain. You'll always find it. But I couldn't understand why I kept going back after I kept being told not to do it. And I realized I was shopping not for pain. I was shopping for an understanding. Like I was trying to figure out why, like how I can improve. And when you have people that are on your circle

they can become yes men in an echo chamber telling you all the things you're doing right sometimes you got to go outside that to figure out what you're doing wrong because they're not going to be the ones to give you I mean some people will my family does give me constructive criticism but sometimes your opposition is going to straight shoots you

but like the amount of growth that you're showing and just of self-awareness I will say just in this past year is incredible to see and I feel like you took something that was probably not the best experience. Like, going through the show itself is a lot to handle, right? And then add on social media and all of the extra criticism and comments out there.

It's a lot to take on. And I don't know. And I'm, like, and I'm sure everyone who comes from this show has learned something. And, you know, I'm hoping that they learn for the better and take that to grow. But, like, the amount of growth that we're seeing with you is so, so cool. Yeah, I mean, it's as I've been so excited. about it because I think the biggest thing was I first had to choose to change my mind.

Like the first thing is like to get someone to change, they have to be willing to do so. So I first thing after I was torn down, I was at first I was defending all my actions. Like every time someone asked me, I was a defense mode. I was like, no, I'm not this type of person. No, I'm, this is why I did it. These are my intentions.

And I just wasn't accepting accountability. So then finally I was like, I am going to just break down all my walls and be willing to see, the other sides. And so I was the first time I did was just become willing. And then I just started flooding my day to day with as much positive mindset stuff. Like I would read the other side. I would listen to those, like see those perspectives and then try to see where I could gain insight. And then I started to understand. I was like, okay, I'm putting in the effort to understanding a perspective different from my own. And now since I'm putting more effort in, it's starting to make

sense. So I was like, okay, now it's not a matter of right or wrong, which I live most of my life. I was like, life is about right or wrong. I was like, no, it's about gray area. There's so many different perspectives that can exist in harmony. And it's not always black and white. Like, sometimes you have instances where both people can be right in their own ways, but are you willing to understand that other person to come to a conclusion that is mutually beneficial? Oh, sorry. Go ahead. And that's just what I've been focusing on. So I've, it's so it's so It feels good because now I've noticed, like, I don't hold as much stress in my life because I just, a lot of things now, I'm like, hey, I'll take life as it is. And if something goes my way, great.

And if it doesn't, that's okay. Like, that's just how it is. So it's been really great. My question for you is that, so you've done, like, you've clearly, like, if people can't see the healing and just like the gains that. you have made since that last episode from here and just you've you've done the work you have done the reflection you said that you're you know seeking out help when you need it just all these different things you've done so much healing from your mistakes from you know you took all that hate you dealt with all of that how do you protect your mental health in like

your personal energy when it comes to constantly being rebooted back to that. So like you were saying that in your inbox, you'll get, you'll still get hate messages. And unfortunately, we all, we all do, right? But at what point do you stop putting the energy into explaining yourself? Because you have already done that work and you're allowed to forgive yourself. You're allowed to move forward and you're allowed to not spend energy on that anymore and constantly have to recircle that portion or prove that point of healing. Because I, well, I personally believe because if you allow that to happen constantly, there's always going to be somebody 10 years down the road who is going to attach you to your mistake that you made 10 years prior. How do you

protect your energy with all of it? Oh, man, that's a great question. You guys can also answer that because you've probably both done that. So I'd be really curious to hear how, like, you guys protect your own energy and mental health. For me, um, the majority of the negative attention and comments I was receiving was on social media. So, uh, whenever it became a overwhelming. I shut it down. And that was what was beautiful about it. I'm like, put your phone down. I go outside. I started doing this thing since my brother, I was a dog. It's been really great. On days when I really just need a breather, I'll take her on a walk, like a mile and a half walk. And I turn on a podcast. Or sometimes I'll just walk with no music or nothing. And I'll just be

staring at the sky and looking around. And I'm like listening to just the calm of the night. And I was like, this, it's so peaceful. And I can step away from all this external noise when I want to. So there's times when I subject myself to it when I'm trying to learn at this point. But whenever it becomes overwhelming, I'm like, I just know, like I hit that limit. And we all have it. We're like, I'm not even learning anything at this point. I'm just shutting down. So when I feel myself shutting down, I just shut off.

And I shut off from the outside world and outside noise. And if I can't go outside, I mean, I've never had an issue. No one's ever come up to me in person and attacked me verbally or anything. but I can always also just sit in my room and lay there and stare at the ceiling and close my eyes and just take deep breaths so just quieting everything down that's how I've been able to manage it

but I'd be curious how you guys do it would you say that when you like you're giving an example of that person who was in your inbox or on your page or just messaged you that you know whatever hate the hateful thing that they said about like you're a bad person you don't deserve love right the fact that those people like today there might be a message like that in there does it does it to deplete you though like does it deplete you by responding that to any of those messages because that's how i'm like stuttering

today does it deplete you to respond to those messages because for me if some i'm like if you're taking time out of your day to come to my inbox to show me hate yes i could sit there and try to teach you otherwise or i could either hit block just delete not respond and spend my energy elsewhere because for me personally I see it as it doesn't do anything or it's just not there's the other places where my energy would be best spent yeah I mean that's yeah absolutely I totally follow that mindset and I've had those days where I was like I'm not engaging with this I'm just blocking you why I choose to engage with some people in other days and I don't just comes down to my mental state in that moment if you get blocked then that's just because I'm in this that day I might have had a big

stress that happened to me. You just happened to catch me at the wrong time. And so I'm like, okay, you're blocked. Other times when I'm in a really great mood, I'm like, I have the time today. Like, I got time. So guess what? You're getting a response. You know, it comes down to for me, why?

It's why. Why should I respond? Well, it's what am I trying to get out of it? For me, I'm trying to now understand where the anger is coming from. So most times I wouldn't care because I'm like, if I'm in a bad headspace and you're a stranger and you say this, I don't care. I'm like, okay, you're projecting your insecurity. is goodbye. I'm not here to figure it out. But there are days now, especially with me trying to

just understand the world around me. I'm like, you know what? No, I have time. I'm trying to figure out where your anger is coming from. And so I start asking questions. And then what you see is it starts to break down these walls between you and this individual. And usually within like two or three messages, their tunes completely changed. And they're just like, wow, like thank you so much for just like, you know, taking the time to talk with me. And that's made me realize that if I can do this with a stranger in my DMs, then I need to have the same approach in my relationships. When someone comes at me and is upset for something I did,

or if they just fire off at me, you know, I go home and I see my family and, you know, my mom or whatever fires off at me, you know, because I accidentally, you know, knock over a chair or something, and she just goes ballistic. And it's like, okay, instead of like, I'm like, hey, there's probably something deeper here. You know, it's not about me knocking the chair over. There's probably something deeper.

So like, it's kind of been interesting because I've learned through strangers that like, okay, when I now, when someone like send something negative my way or has a negative reaction to me, my first reaction isn't to be defensive anymore. My first reaction is to open up and say, oh, how can I figure out where this person's hurting and can I somehow, can we somehow come to a mediation point? So when I have, when I'm in those head spaces, I do it. When I don't, I just block them. So it really just depends on where I'm at on a daily basis.

Yeah. But they still affect me. I do want to say that. I mean, they don't carry as much weight. It used to like train wreck my day because I was getting a lot, right? So I would get like, I would get a thousand, you know, I'd get a thousand messages and I would have, you know, it was overwhelming because I was like once one comment, you're like, whatever, you know, forget it. You're just one person. A thousand.

You're like, okay, I'm more likely to actually believe this. Maybe there is some truth to this. I don't get that anymore. Thankfully, I have kind of fallen off the map. I'm not as relevant as I once was, and that's kind of played to my benefit. So I don't get the same comments. I maybe get, I don't know, a couple a day. Actually, at this point, it's like a couple of week at most, like two maybe negative comments at most.

Like, I think people have just kind of moved on. Yeah. But they still affect me. I mean, of course, like, I'm a human. I still see it. I'm like, shoot, man, I thought I was beyond. One, it's always going to. come in waves coming from somebody who you know I did the show I started back in 2017 that was

almost six years ago it's going to come in waves like right after the season it's intense and I'm sure we've all experienced because we've all been through a breakup with somebody from the show and it's hard around that time for a little bit which I want to ask you and I don't want to like get into the nitty gritty details or push you to talk about your relationship with susy and the breakup but one thing that I'm curious about is Susie had talked about a letter that you had sent her after the breakup with a beautiful message thanking her for how wonderful the relationship was and just letting her know how good of a place you're in now, which I find very commendable, very respectable.

I don't think it's often that we see a relationship, especially from this show and on such great terms, which really goes to show just how sweet of people you both are. So if you're comfortable, can you elaborate a bit more? more on what was in that letter, how you got yourself into that place to write that and just kind of why you wanted to send that off to her. Yeah. Well, I basically was just going about my life. I was a couple weeks ago, maybe when this message was sent.

And I was just driving in my car and I just was overcome with just happiness. Like I was genuinely just happy. I was like, my life is good. You know, I'm I just, I'm doing what I want. You know, I'm making an impact. good things are happening. I've learned so much and I have zero regrets. Like I love everything that's happened in my life because I am the good and bad and I found good through all the bad.

So I just had this moment where I was driving and it was like a sunny day out and I was playing jamming out some music, windows down, rolling through Scottsdale. And I was just so grateful and thankful. And the first person my mind went to was Susie. I was like, she is the reason why you're here like in this. position because when the show ended my I had lost all stability and structure I was like what am I doing I left my job okay I guess I'm going to be an influencer now I'm trying to make the influencer stuff work it wasn't working like I thought because influencing is hard I hate

that people say it's so easy it is not easy it's a full-time job I'm not good at it really like I do my thing but like people don't give people credit for that like it is an art in itself you have to have creativity you have to follow the trends you and like Suzy would do that Susie would, like, be on social media looking at what's popular. She, she loved social media. So she would look at all that. And she is an incredible influencer. And she's an incredible person.

So, but like, I'm not that. Like, I was like, I, and so I was overwhelmed, though. And I was like, what am I going to do next? And I was like, I'm going back to corporate America. I'm going back, going back to medical sales. What's safe? And she stopped me. She was like, Clayton, I see how happy you are on the days where you make an impact on

people. uh you know i don't think you should give this up yet like i just think that you i think you have more in you i think you're not done like you've tried but have you exhausted all options i was like no she's like okay so like keep working like keep put your head down like try try it again give it another chance and so i did in multiple areas and then all sudden things started to like turn in my favor and i was like oh my gosh wait i actually can make a living you know off of what i'm doing and And it's my, it's not, it's not medical sales now. It's my passions, true passions.

That only happened because of her. Like, otherwise I'd be back working my, my sales job right now, which like, wouldn't have been bad, but it just wasn't my, my passion. I didn't, I didn't wake up on a Monday being like, can't wait to go to work. You know, like, like, like, I got to be like seven certain. You're like another Monday. Yeah. And again, nothing wrong with that.

It's just for me, I always felt like there was more I should be doing and find myself in a different area. And so she, I have. her to thank for all of that. And I wanted to let her know that. I just want I just sent her message and said, thank you so much for all that you've done for me. Like you've truly impacted my life for the better. And, you know, I also just wanted to let her know, too, that I was, again, sorry for like the turmoil that I put her through, whether it was directly or indirectly. I mean, I hurt her in a lot of ways. And I didn't mean to. And but, you know, sometimes I did

from my actions directly, sometimes indirectly. And I just wanted to let her know that I was like, hey, when it's all sudden done, you are an incredible human being. And like, I would not be the person I am today if it wasn't for you. So I just wanted to let her know that because I thought, you know, I think people need to have those conversations and reach out and let people know how much they mean to them because it just when you spread positivity, it just comes back. Like it comes back and finds you.

And I'm just so thankful. that her and I have that relationship where, you know, we can still talk. You know, we, we do text from time to time and check in and laugh and talk about, you know, like how we, I made the joke. I'm like, oh, man, like, you know, I guess I'll keep, I'll keep, I'll keep something's private, but we, because something should be, right? Like, that's between her and I. But at the end the day, like, we are cordial. We're friends. And that's, I wouldn't want it any other way. So it's just been really great because she um like i'm writing a book right now and i sent her a message and i was like you know me more than most people do would you be willing to look at this and she was like

absolutely that could be so like you know i'll i'll get back to you with like all the thing and help you like help you out as much as i can so i just think that's so cool that like she was a big part of my life and she and she knows me so i was like what i need her in that editing process like I need you to help. So it's just been, yeah, it's been really great. And I have nothing bad to say about her. Yeah, I wish things would have worked out, obviously. Like, and it's really tough when you, when you know, it's tough when like someone

didn't do something destructive, like something so negative that you can't see past. It's really hard. Like you're not compatible, but you're, you wish you were, but you're just not. You're like, I wish, it's almost like, I found myself saying this before to past X's. I wish you to just, I wish they to just cheated on me because then at least like, that's a hard break. But then like when it's not that and it's a matter of compatibility, it hurts because you're like how like what if we just keep trying?

Can we somehow find that compatibility? And I think if you're both willing to put the effort, maybe, but then still like if you're not compatible, ultimately you're just not compatible. Yeah. So that's tough to come to terms with. But I think once you do, you look at it as that person was integral in that part of my life. I needed them for that stage of my life. They just weren't meant to be my forever person.

And that's the way that I've framed it. No, you really do put that beautifully. And I honestly commend you just on how much you reflect Clayton. And this is something that I saw when you were on the season with me, on your own season. Just you, I think it's really healthy to be in a constant state of reflection and looking past just all these different things of what can I do better. And, you know, taking your wins and being proud of yourself and taking that moment, like that moment when you're driving in. Scottsdale with the windows down, whatever song you were playing, that happiness feeling like this is who I need to reach out to, that image, like, that image and that feeling for you

you, is something that I feel like you're going to remember for the rest of your life. It's like this pivotal moment of like that was like your pivotal reset. Yeah, I want to actually say something that just popped up with regarding a pivotal moment with us. I, uh, right before the season started, you know, like when we did our segment, uh, you came at the beginning of the season. They showed it on like Instagram. Yeah, yeah, they cut it. Yeah, well, they did show, I can talk about it because they show it on Instagram. Yeah, even if they did it and we're going to talk about it.

Yeah, so that was such a, like, I was just so excited to see you because I was like, oh my gosh, like this is so cool. And to see, you know, I was a Luke and Kelsey. And it was just a really great moment and it felt like an awesome start to the whole experience. But I remember I asked you for advice and I wanted you to like lay out this manuscript. script and I believe the one thing you said is like just be you're going to have to find a way to be able to let go of control and I that was like the one thing and I was like but what does that mean you're like and I think you said something like you know you'll you'll figure that out what

that looks like for you and now I see it on the other side I was like oh my gosh like I struggled so much because I was trying to control every part of my life I was trying to control what the public thought about me I was trying to control my outcome like of what was going to happen post show what am I going to do and if things did not align and fall into place then I just went you know my I just I just panicked and I became depressed and stressed out and so now I look back at it and I just think it's like so cool to see the insight you gave me back then and now I'm like oh like yeah now I'm on the other side of it now like Michelle you're just it makes a lot of sense what she were saying and and you're right though like what I did to let go of control was

probably different than what you needed to do, but it was the bad, it was great advice because you can't, the more specific you would have been, it probably wouldn't have resonated as hardly as much as it does now. Yeah, it's, everyone thinks that, I mean, even life in general, but, but to those who are listening who maybe haven't seen the bit, it was, I was able to get to speak with Clayton before his season. He was back at the mansion. I remember you were sitting on the couch. He looks so overwhelmed. I asked producers, like, how are he doing? And they're all like, he seems a little overwhelmed, but I had two of my students with me, Kelsey and Luke, and we've got to go in and kind of just sit down with him and talk for a little bit and give him advice.

And that's the thing is that you walk in and you do, you want this blueprint. You want this blueprint. You want this blueprint for how it's going to go. You want this blueprint for even like your day-to-day life, all of us do as humans want control. But it really is, it's like not one-size-fits-all. I couldn't give you a piece of advice that was going to be exactly the same for you that it was for me. and truly being able to just be vulnerable as you clearly have become so vulnerable and willing to put yourself out there, whether it's in your book, whether it's talking on social media, every opening up about your mental health, mental health in general relationships, if you're able to let control or let go of the control of the things that you don't have, and that's so much energy that you have now left for yourself to put in the right direction with what you want to do with it. And so you've been able to do that, and it's awesome. And I feel like we all, but I'm still battle with letting control on a day basis, right? And even in relationships in general.

And my question to you, Clayton, is now that you're in this place, you're recently single, you have your footing with kind of where you want to go. You know, are you back dating? Have you thought about what you want to bring into your next relationship that you've learned from your past relationships? What is your focus on that kind of like relationship level in what? you're looking for yeah so i mean i'm open to the possibility of dating uh like i'm going out and and meeting people and if i feel that there's you know interest to pursue that then i have done so i've had a few like people that i've been interested in that it just kind of fell through

and that's fine again i old me would have been like oh gosh you know why why does this person why do they not text back you know or why is this not working out you know must be something i did wrong and now new me is just like oh it's just not meant to be all right like and you live in my life so uh that's again like it's it's been positive but i i'm also in the state right now i am kind of in a selfish mindset right now i'm really focusing on myself and i'm and i'm self-reflecting and i'm chasing my passions and i'm doing six different things uh so my days you know from sun up to sundown i'm working and so i really am feeling you know being selfish in this moment. And I think, you know, towards the end of the year here, I have a lot of deadlines that

I'm trying to finish for different projects. So when that frees up, I think, you know, going to the new year, I'm like, okay, I'm going to have more time now. And now I can, with the base I build, now I can, like, take this excess time I have and, you know, allow somebody in. So I'm not shutting it down right now, but I'm just really focused on pushing out certain things and getting things in play. And so, you know, once that stuff calms down, then it's like, okay, now I will have extra time to really devote to somebody because they deserve that. I don't feel like if I dated somebody right now, I would have to preface it by saying, hey, just so you know where I'm at currently, like, I'm going to spend a lot of time getting my things, you know, working on my

stuff right now. So I may be taking away from us as a couple. And so I'd have to set those parameters if I were to get into a relationship at this point. Yeah. So if it happens, I'll have that discussion, but if not, then I'll just continue to do what I'm doing. And then I think I'll attract that right person when the timing's right. I think that's such a good, healthy mindset. I just this morning had the same conversation with my trainer who was starting to see a guy who, you know, they were like texting. She was traveling for like a month and they would talk every day.

And then when she finally came home, he had all these excuses like, oh, I have birthday parties. I have work. I have X, Y, Z. And it came down to, like, he just wasn't ready, I think, to, like, go all in a relationship. And so I actually told her, I was like, I appreciate when people are just honest and blunt. And it's like they just don't have time or they don't want to find the time right now. I think that's totally okay. And like you said, you're working on so much stuff, which is why I want to get into this book. I want to know more. Tell us about the writing process. Is this always something that you've wanted to do? Or how did this come along? no i didn't really thought about writing a book um but i had a buddy who he's written a couple and he just basically said uh you know i was talking to him about the whole experience after the show ended we were sitting in columbia where he lives and we had a long discussion about everything and he said he just made the comedy he was like would you ever consider writing a book and i said ah i don't really you know think anything you know i don't think anyone would want to read that book and he goes he was like listen man i help people write

books for a living. And the biggest reason why people don't write books is because of imposter syndrome. Because they think no one wants to hear their message. And he said, but put it this way. He's like, don't like, that's common. He goes, but, but write it for you. You know, write the book for you. And more than likely, it'll help somebody. And if it helps one person, that's great. If it helps a thousand, that's awesome. But more than anything, he's like, I think based off of what you've been talking to me about, I think you would almost see it as therapeutic. You would write it and it would almost be like a journal. And you would be able to get your thoughts out and just express to yourself. And that's exactly what happened. It was really cool. It was like

it's a journal essentially. In the book, I talk about my upbringing. I talk about my struggles from an early age of having depressive thoughts. I talk about bi dysmorphia. I talk about not fitting in. And I go through my life, you know, step by step. And I share these stories. And it, for one, really helped me because it helped me just make sense of why I am who I am. I was like, you're, you, you are, you don't realize it, but the fact that you always felt like you were in the shadows of your middle brother, you know, that was a superstar athlete, you always felt like you're in the shadows. So you were always trying to show people that, hey, I'm valuable too, guys, look at me. So I became a people pleaser. Um, so that came from like me at a young

age feeling that I wasn't worthy. And, you know, my, my superstar brother was just, you know, getting all the attention and I was just a placeholder in life and, you know, holding, you know, just taking up space. And so I started to realize, I'm like, oh my gosh, as I'm going back to the past and I'm and I'm thinking about all the trauma I face, I never really addressed it. So this became a point where I started to be able to address it. And I started going through each chapter. And I was like, oh my gosh, that I'm still holding on to. I didn't realize I'm still holding on to that day when I was at a house and all these girls told me my buddies to flex in eighth grade. and we all flexed.

And when I flex, they're like, Clayton flex. I was like, I'm. And they all laughed at me. And I was like, you're still holding on to that pain. That's when your body dysmorphia was triggered. Like these, all these different instances, you are still holding on to. So then I started to address each of them one at a time. And then I wrote the book.

And by the end of it, I was like, man, I feel like I've addressed most of this stuff from my past. And it's helped me now have a better understanding of why I am today, who I am and where my shortcomings are. So it's been really awesome. And the book's just based around vulnerability, destigmatizing conversations around mental health, and hopefully by the end of it, helping others feel more comfortable with opening up and also asking questions to themselves to self-reflect and gain a self-belief. So I just figured,

if I'm writing it, this is what happened to me. Maybe this could happen to somebody else. So it's been cool. I know I want to get it. It sounds like it's a therapy session in its own. I'm sure writing that was so therapeutic. Do you have a name yet, a cover? Do you know, when it's coming out. Is there anything like that you can share with us? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I think I just recently shared the, maybe I didn't. No, I didn't. Only just to some people, the book's called 180 degrees. And so it's about a mindset shift. You know, so about basically redirecting your course and facing, you know, going the opposite direction. So for me, like I was down this dark depressive path, I made this 180 degree shift to now where I'm walking down

what I call the path of life or I'm much happier. And I talk about, you know, the incremental changes I made along the way. In the book, I break it up into 30 degrees segments. Each of the segments has a principle. And it's like, these are the pillars of my life that helped me start to make this shift because you can't make it all at once. You have you have to put effort into each of these areas. And they'll slowly start to renavigate yourself. So yeah, so it's 180 degrees. I do have a front cover picked out that was as of like a week and a half ago. Okay. And now currently where I'm at, I have people reviewing it. And they're giving me constructive criticism and I've gotten great feedback. They, you know, they're and

so I have more work to do. So this whole week, I'm going to go back in and, um, add things, take out things that are maybe redundant. Uh, but it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's on its way. I don't, it might be not out in the next couple months, but I don't want to obviously rush this because it's an extension of me, you know, and I want to put my best forward. So, uh, that takes, that takes time. And you don't want to just push it out to push it out. So when it's ready, it'll be ready. But, um, um, It's just been great. Like I said, it's been very therapeutic to write. 2023 is going to be a big year for you. I have a feeling. It'll be exciting.

You know, I don't know. Again, for me, my expectations are just to continue doing what I love. So I don't know what that looks like from a financial perspective, professional perspective. But I just know what I found is that whatever energy you put out there, it does come back your way. And so, 2023 is just the year of positivity, like continue positivity, just trying to create change. and wherever I go is kind of wherever life takes me. Wait, was that one of your lines, 2023, the year of positivity. Okay, cut me up.

Well, is that out to me? Oh, my gosh. We'll get you to freestyle right now. Maybe we should switch it up. No, my God, don't do that. I'm going to be so red. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, this is your interview today.

Right. Well, Clay, I'm so excited. Do you have any thoughts around any New Year's resolutions that you want to share with us? I do you believe in resolutions let me ask you this that's yes I think we've talked about this before briefly clean yeah I won't say I don't believe in them they work for some people they don't work for me because the reason why is because when I want to do something I'm not going to put it off at this point I'm like if I want to do something I'm going to do it now because I don't know if my motivation a month from now is going to still be there so yeah the second I want to do this I'll just

start now. And, you know, people, some people, I've heard, you know, they start to make their New Year's resolutions beginning of December. I'm like, okay, so you're waiting 30 days. You just don't know where you're going to be at. Life might take, you might get overwhelmed in 30 days and all of a sudden you're going to have to push off that resolution. So I believe the best time to start something is now when you're in the headspace to do so. But I don't want to say that they do help some people. They are the added bit of motivation. So I see value in them for others, just not for me. I'm the exact same way. It's like, if you want something so bad to where, like, you, you want, whether it's fitness goal,

whether it's health goal, whether it's mental health goal, whether it's whatever it is, financial goal, why would you be like, okay, cool, let me start and, you know, what, let me procrastinate. Why would you do that? That's why I dislike resolutions. It's just like, just start right now, just go. And then you're a month ahead of everybody else. Everybody else is waiting. I already started.

Yeah, you'll be looking back 30 days. You'll be like, I'm so happy. I started this a month ago. Yeah, absolutely. Before we do our resource, Clay and I just want to say, first of all, thank you for being on Happy Hour today. I love that we could have real conversations about so much more going on in your life than just, you know, the show that you were on a year ago.

You're so much more than that. Everyone is. You know, every lead and every contestant and every person is so much more. than just the show. So I'm so glad that you could take some time today to be with us. I really appreciate it. And I really, really think that listeners will take a lot from this. And I have to say, I'm so excited for this book to come out. I cannot wait. So definitely keep us posted on when it can be expected because Thomas and I will be at the front of the line getting that baby. But now we got to get into our resource portion, if you will. So basically, we say this every week. But we think

It's so important to keep all of our listeners informed and share important resources that we love. So I'll just kick it off if that's cool with everyone. Go for it, yes. So this one is, it's actually something that took place in Minnesota, our home state, Michelle. And basically, it instated a cultural competency training mandate for teachers, which, speaking of teachers, I think this is so incredible and something that probably should have been done long ago. you know, I can just say that. But basically, and I have a list of the bullets that it'll cover, it'll get into teachers training with racial, cultural, socioeconomic groups. They'll have training on religion and systemic racism. They'll focus on gender identity, including transgender students,

sexual orientation, and also individuals and disabilities with mental health concerns, which I think is so important, you know, Michelle, I think you had talked about, I believe, on our podcast, or maybe it was just us separate, that I think teachers had to go through like implicit bias training at some point. And so I think this is just an addition to that, which I think will only help so many more groups of people. So that is the resource that I'm sharing for today. It's the Minnesota Cultural Competency Training Mandate for all educators in Minnesota. I love that. Now, if we could just make that training mandatory for everybody outside of teaching. Wow. The things that would be that we could get accomplished. Okay, so mine is, it's a podcast. I think that there's a YouTube documentary coming out with it as well. It's called Catch.

And what it does is it focuses on this is like a statistic. I cannot remember who said this, but it's kind of where the show derived from or came off of. But basically that one in three black boys will be incarcerated in their lifetime. And it talks about systemic racism. It talks about the cycles that African Americans are born into. It kind of pulls apart all those layers, how the education system, political, all these things are just failing our black youth. And just the different supports that would have to be put into place.

And it's super, super interesting because it's all based off of statistics. And so that's called catch. And I think you catch, yep, you can catch it on YouTube or Spotify. Okay. Oh, I'm definitely going to take a listen. Yeah, super interesting. Thank you. Yeah, I think it's awesome that you guys do this.

I think it is important that resources are so critical for education. And so when, like, for me personally, this is probably one that people are familiar with because he had a tie to the show to some degree. But I read a couple months ago, I read Uncomfortable conversations with the black man by Manuel Acho and I thought that was an incredible book because just like the title says he goes in and has these conversations that most people are too fearful to have and for somebody like me that grew up as a white man in the United States I lived a certain experience and my experience is going to be different from somebody else

that grew up that was not a white man and so I don't think ignorance is an excuse though and I used to say well if it's out you know people would say if it's out of side out of of mind. It doesn't affect me. But that's what I've since realized. It's like, no, you can't say that. Like, you need to take these things seriously because they're happening all around us. And the best thing we can do is inform ourselves so that we can be a better advocate or ally to those individuals. So for me, that book was incredible because it opened up my mind to the history of what black Americans have went through. And I didn't know. Like, I just didn't realize that some of these things were happening. And I talked to some of these things were happening. And I talked to

some teammates playing football, and I learned some of this. But, you know, I thought this is incredible because some people are afraid out of this conversation, okay, so you can take this book, though, and read it, and you don't have to worry about having this conversation yet, but just start here. Read the book first. It's going to open your eyes up to it, and it's going to give you a better understanding. And so I thought that was an incredible resource that I would share because he did such a great job of painting what it's like to grow up in his shoes.

and how, again, it was different than what I lived through. And so I thought, okay, it's awesome. Because, again, the more you know, the better understanding you'll have of the world around you and the more you'll be able to help. I think that book does a good job of also, like, we have to start somewhere, right? And it's a good starting place to, as you said, show, like his life experience growing up, not only it's a black man, but who's also Nigerian and has a totally different culture than other people living in amazing.

America and it does a good job of, you know, like, start here and educate yourselves and ask the right questions, but just start having those conversations as uncomfortable as they are, you know. So, yeah, that is a great read. Very good resource. Thank you, Clayton. You came prepared, which I love to see. It was so fun having you. Please, we'll all stay in touch, but truly come out to California if you ever need a getaway. I was going to say a warm getaway. It's probably warmer where you are right now.

But our door is always open. You're always welcome back on Happy Hour. This was an incredible conversation. I'm so glad we had you. Yeah, no, thanks, guys. I really appreciate it. I think it would be really great to have a conversation, though, where I mean, you guys ask a lot of great questions.

I would obviously love to catch up and learn more. I know this is more focused on me as you guys are doing an interviewer thing, but we'll have to catch up as just friends. So I can also ask the questions and give you guys the floor. But this was still at least good to check back in after all this time. Yeah. So good to see you.

We appreciate you. I have to say, I mean, I always love chatting with Clayton. He's such a gem. But I really like the fact that like during this off season, we don't have to recap the show. And like, we're having these real life conversations of like actual stuff going on. And just it's so cool to see the growth that he's made, the constant state of reflection and just like learning that he's doing. And yeah, like you said, it's nice to take time to like have our viewers or

start have our listeners actually get to get to know, you know, our guests, not on a bachelor level. Yeah, it's so refreshing. It's so refreshing. And just going back to like, I keep, we keep saying growth here. But like, and you, you kind of touched on it when we were interviewing him of like you said just when you met him like let let go of control, right? Like you just kind of have to go with the flow. And I was thinking about this. Like the first time I met him, I had hosted a date for him and one of his contestants and like kicked off the day. And it was all about like just letting go. You can't be in control. But I remember meeting him before kicking off that date. And he. And he. And. And. And it's such a stressful situation. Like there's, it's a lot to take in like your whole world and life as you know it and your daily routine is uprooted. You have no idea day by day what to expect. So you're just kind of like thrown into the mix like on somebody else's time frame and really everything is is not up to you. And so to see how stress and just anxious he was at that point to now is so refreshing. I think like he's on a great. job of self-reflection and like really taking what he's learned from the show and right after and turned it into something positive, which is so commendable. So again, Clayton, thank you for joining us, Michelle. It's always good to have you back with me on Happy Hour. And our last thank you,

of course, goes out to all of you listeners. And I have to say, I've said it the past couple weeks, but please don't forget that we are casting for men to date the next bachelorette. So if you're single or if you know of somebody who is single and would be great for the show looking for love, go to the website to nominate or apply. That website is bouchernation.com slash apply. Ooh-hoo. Yes. It feels so good to be back here, getting in the swing of things. And make sure to hit us up on social. You can follow us at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram. And from there, you'll find everything you need to know to follow us on Twitter and TikTok. And for all of you Prime members out there, you can listen to Bachelor Happy Hour ad-free on Amazon

Music. Just download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can also listen ad-free with Wonderry Plus in Apple Podcasts. And before you go, tell us something about yourself by completing a very short survey at Wonderry.com slash survey. Thank you, everyone, and see you next week. Cheers. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot.

He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the Psychology Podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome.

Avoidance is easier, ignoring is easier, denials easier, complex problem solving, takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, my name is Enya Umanzor. And I'm Drew Phillips. And we run a podcast called Emergency Intercom. If you're a crime junkie and you love crimes, we're not the podcast for you. But if you have unmedicated ADHD... Oh my God, perfect.

And want to hear people with mental illness, psycho babble. Yes, yes. Then Emergency Intercom is the podcast for you. Open your free IHeartRadio app. Search Emergency Intercom and listen now. This is an IHeart podcast.