Bachelor Happy Hour - Demi’s First Interview Since Coming Out on ‘Paradise’

Episode Date: August 21, 2019

Demi Burnett opens up about speaking her truth and being part of Bachelor Nation’s first same-sex relationship. Plus, Nicole Lopez on the Jordan/ Christian fight and her experience in “Paradise.��See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily, it's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone.

Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, I sat down with Jasmine Crockett, Democratic Representative of Texas. She's holding out the fork for her party in one of the most conservative states in the Union. I think that ultimately, who will become the Democratic nominee for president will be someone that has been out there and has shown that they won't allow themselves. to be punched and just say thank you. Like, they will punch back. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy Truthers believe in, I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. To give you the answers and you still blew it.

The Puzzler, listen on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Allie. And I'm Rachel. And welcome to Bachelor Happy Hour. This is officially Rachel's last podcast with us before she becomes Mrs. Aposolo. How you feeling, Rach. It's so weird to hear you. you say that. I mean, I know I'm getting married. I feel very married already, but to hear

Mrs. Abasolo that I'm losing my last name, just legally, not professionally. Oh, really? So you're going to keep Lindsay professionally? Yeah, it's my excuses. It's on all my degrees. Of course I'm going to keep it. It's just easier. It's just how people know me. But I'm definitely going to take his last name. And we're very excited. I mean, I've spent all day to day running around they're getting my nails done my eyebrows done my lashes the only thing left is my hair um yeah it's really an exciting time i'm already packed i'm ready to go yeah oh my god it's so exciting like so so so exciting i hope uh i hope it is everything that you dream of we're going to miss you i know next week for the podcast you're not going to be here and i'm really going to miss you i'm nervous

holding down the fort without you oh holly please you'll be fine you're going to be like who's that rachel i don't even need her anymore never never rachel you'll be you'll be you're be fantastic. No, I think everything is just going to hit me when I actually get there. When I get there and we start seeing family and friends and just knowing that they're all there to celebrate us and our love and just the way that we found each other and, you know, the odds were against us. And I feel like I'm saying my vows right now. So let me just stop. Oh, no, keep going. Keep going. One thing I will say, one thing I wish I did that I never did is take more video on my phone of me and Kevin, like the morning before we got married, the morning we

We woke up after getting married, like little just nuggets of us alone that I wish I could look back on. So that's my piece of advice to you. Take lots of video just for you and Brian. Here you are again, Allie, with the best advice. I mean, okay, you guys, I don't know if you've heard me say this before, but Ali gave me the best advice as I was going on to be the Bachelorette. She reached out to me, we talked, we communicated, and she really just told me to sit back and enjoy the moment because it's going to go by so fast, among other things. That's something that really stuck with me. So to hear you come again with this wedding advice and telling me to capture the moment but also enjoy it, you know I'm going to do it again.

Well, I also think I told you to ignore Brian. I think I told you to ignore the guy that you liked the most. So I don't know. But we're so excited for you, Rachel. We're going to miss you so much. And I cannot wait for you to come back and give us all the details on your just beautiful wedding day. Yeah, the wedding, not the honeymoon. What happens in the honeymoon?

Stayes in the honeymoon. Yes, it does. We have an amazing podcast today because we are talking to the one and only Demi. One of my personal faves. I just have to put that out there because they are far and few between and Bachelor Nation for me. I am so excited to talk to Demi. I have always loved her, but very quickly become one of her biggest fans. So I cannot wait to talk to her.

Plus, later on, we're going to talk to Nicole as well. I mean, Rach, we have got to get her take on the Jordan Christian fight because that's That was crazy. Yeah, she had a front row seat. I know. Slightly jealous. God, I would have been terrified, but I also want to know I want to talk to her about her and Clay because it seems like they are really, really, you know, in this for the long haul,

it seems like. But first, we are going to be right back with Demi right after this. Welcome back. We are here with Dimmy. Demi, thank you so much for joining us today. We have been eager to talk to you. and we're so glad that you're joining us on Bachelor Happy Hour. We couldn't be more excited.

I'm so glad to be here and I am so honored that y'all are fans of mine, considering I fan girl over y'all all the time. The biggest fans, truly. Like, when we found out that we were going to get to have you on the podcast, it means so much to us because we're not only fans of yours. We're seeing what you're doing. And at least for me personally, like, I admire you so, so much. I just want to put that out there right now.

Like, I might have 10 years on you, but, like, I look up to you because what you are doing is incredible. I hope you're so proud. And we're going to talk all about that here today. First, how are you? Thank you for being so sweet. That means a lot to me. I mean it. Thank you.

I'm doing really good right now. You know, I'm loving life just moved to L.A. So getting settled in, standing in my empty apartment with my hands on my hips, not knowing what to do. But everything's really good. I'm really happy, so. Is it true you live, like, right next to Hannah, your best friend? Yes, me and Hannah do have an apartment next to each other. And it was so funny because I didn't even know she lived there whenever I was talking to

the unit about, or talking to the apartment complex about the unit. And then I realized on my location that she was in the same place. I was, like, you know, you share your location with your friends. We were in the same place. And I was like, Hannah, do you live here? And we knew that we would be able to live next to each other because we're not the kind of friends who over invade each other's privacy, like she knows and I know we're not going to each other's doors knocking like, hey, good morning. Like, no, you better let me know before you come over here.

That is too funny. That's a true side of like best friends that you just both chose the exact same apartment complex and all of Los Angeles. I know. It's so crazy. Like I knew I wanted to live in either Sherman Oaks or Studio City, but there was a lot of things I was looking for. Like I was looking for somewhere with the townhouse because I have cats. So I wanted stairs. so they could run around on the stairs and get some good exercise. But yeah, it was just crazy that the one place that I ended up going with, Hannah was next door.

I love you guys' friendship. And it's funny, you say you're standing around in an empty apartment, but you're definitely full in company with your best friend being next door. I feel like L.A. is a good place for you because you're from Red Oak. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I'm familiar with Red Oak.

Oh, my gosh. I'm from Dallas, O'Cliff, to be exact. It's not too far from where I grew up. And I feel like L.A. is way more fitting for your personality. So how has it been just to move from the small town of Red Oak to Los Angeles? It's been crazy because as a kid, I always thought like L.A. was way out of my league and stuff. And I was just small town girl. So moving from Red Oak where, you know, it's funny that you say you know Red Oak because Chris Harrison also knows Red Oak.

He used to go dove hunting out there and stuff like that. So moving to such a bigger city, it's a little bit intimidating, but I know it's the best place for me right now, and I feel like I've accomplished something that I never dreamed of accomplishing, like just moving to L.A. seems like, oh, you're just moving to a bigger city. Not a big deal for most people, but I'm like, I came from a tiny little town where nothing like this was ever in anybody's capacity of accomplishing. So I feel proud of myself. It's interesting that you say intimidating because when I see you, Demi, and it's one of the things that I loved about you from Colton's season, and there weren't many things that I loved about Colton Season, I loved that you seemed very self-aware of who you are, and you weren't afraid that you were maybe the youngest person in the house, you stood your ground, you stood up for yourself.

So to hear that L.A. was a little intimidating for you. It's interesting. And I think it shows our list. that there's another side of you, which we've also seen as we've watched Paradise. But I know a lot of times we get typecasted as we're this person and we don't have any other sides of us. And so it's it's refreshing to hear you say, hey, guys, sometimes I get intimidated too. Absolutely. I think that humans have multiple facets to them. And there is a side of me who is super bold and super funny and you know doesn't give a shit about anything and i just say whatever's on my mind but there's still another side of me who does feel you know insecure at times and unsure of herself and questions everything and is scared so i like that this time in paradise i got to explore that

whereas on the bachelor it was more focused on me being fun and bold and confident but just because you're fun, bold, and confident doesn't mean that you don't have the same issues that other people have, like insecurities and questioning yourself, et cetera, et cetera. I feel like that is a good segue into talking about paradise. Demi, I got to tell you when I watched, I was just so proud of you. I don't know if you'd intended to impact lies like you are and are going to continue, but I feel like you have really changed the game for Bachelor of Paradise. You will go down in the history of the show as being like a game changer. Did you know that being open about being fluid on the show, that it was going to have this huge impact?

Like, what were you feeling when you knew you were going to open up about your sexuality on the show? Well, I think it's important to acknowledge the bravery that Jamie King had whenever she came. came out as bisexual in the show. So, you know, I don't. Absolutely. I don't want to claim that I was the first one because she was and she walked so I could run. Yes. Thank you for clarifying that. You're absolutely right. And can I just say that Jamie was on the season that I was on with Nick? And I saw that people were commenting about that. And I actually thought about that myself. And I think, Ali, you and I actually talked about that too. Maybe it was, it was off the podcast. But I think the differences, and I just want to clarify it, because I,

Jamie is a friend, and I don't want to make it seem like we aren't honoring what Jamie did and honoring her bravery and coming out in a way that we haven't seen in this whole bachelor world. But the difference is that, you know, Jamie was on there on the show pursuing a heterosexual relationship. For the first time, we see that that's not the case. And you're the first person to step out and do that. But I love the way you put it. She had to walk so you could run.

Exactly. Yes, like this is the first time we're seeing physical, same-sex relationship. And no, I never expected it. I honestly, at first, like, I was scared. I was a little bit uncomfortable and I was like, I don't know how much I want to, like, kiss her on camera. Like, you know, whenever she first got there, I was a little, I mean, whenever she first got there, I was like, I don't care, I'm all over her. But, you know, it gets a little bit uncomfortable just because it's like something, nobody's ever seen before and in the back of your mind whenever you haven't been out with

as many people before you're thinking about are the cameramen thinking this is weird are the audio guys weirded out by the fact that like it's girl on girl right now it's just you kind of question everything and it made me very very anxious but I'm happy that I can at least be somebody who people can relate to that are struggling with the same things of being afraid to come out because you know for me I came from a very conservative family all of my family there's not been a single like gay person in any of my family and so coming out to millions all at once it was overwhelming and it was scary but my heart knew that that's what it wanted so on the show you talk about opening up to your family and that they were extremely supportive of you and they were really great i think you said how long ago was that So I opened up to my family and I came out to my dad and my stepmom right before the show.

I knew that I was going to talk about my previous relationship that I'd had back home before Paradise. And I wanted them to hear it from me first. And I'd been putting it off for so long because I was so scared of their reaction because I do come from a very conservative family. And there's been nothing, no one's ever come out in my family before. So I wanted to make sure that they heard it from me instead of hearing it from, you know, news articles or spoilers and stuff like that. And it was really scary because I didn't know how they would react, but they couldn't have been more supportive. My dad and my stepmom, they are the MVP's. They have made me feel nothing less than I was before I told them.

They made me feel even better about it. And whenever I came home from paradise and I talked to them about everything, open arms. embracing me. It was incredible. I did not feel anything except for Demi. Like I felt like myself and fully myself and I wasn't having to hide that from them anymore. Do you think, Demi, if they had had a different reaction that you wouldn't have been able to go into Paradise and be as open as you were, you know, with us as the viewers watching? I care so much about how they feel about me and, you know, just making sure that they're happy and they're comfortable. So if they would have been uncomfortable with it,

I think I would have probably held back. I care about them more than anyone else in the world. They've done everything for me and they've always been there for me. But it proves to me that they are the people that I hold to this standard of amazingness because they reacted in the way that they did. Did they know, and what was the reaction? Did they know that you were going to talk about it on Paradise? And were they worried about you? Because I feel like as a parent myself, if my daughter told me that she was going to open up like this in such a public platform where there's so much judgment, I'd be so scared for her. What was the reaction? I did not tell them I was going to talk about it on Paradise.

I just told them, you know, hey, I mean, I was bawling whenever I was telling them. But I was like, I like boys and I like girls. And I haven't told you all for a long time because I've been scared. and they were so supportive and amazing about it. And my stepmom was like, we kind of figured. It's so funny because my stepmom, if she looks really good, like, you know, she gets all dressed up and stuff. I'll be like, oh, my gosh, you look so cute. And she'll be like, Demi, I'm taken.

Your family always knows. They know you, right? Yes. Well, that's amazing that you have that support of them. And I hope you feel and know that you have our support, obviously, as well. Thank you. Can we talk about Christian? a little bit? Yeah. Can you tell us about when you guys met? I don't remember the exact day that we met. I just remember I was in L.A. doing something for The Bachelor. And I was at Catherine Agro's house and I met her roommate, which was Christian. And the first time we met, like, it was all fun, like friendly, of course. And I was like, this girl is so cool. Like, everyone loves her who meets her. She's incredible. And I was like, yeah, this girl's super cool. I had no idea her sexuality. I didn't know anything about it. I didn't ask. That's not my

place. But then the next time I came out there, I was there again. And I remember it was like a late night and everyone was like talking about getting in the hot tub. And so we were all like getting ready for the hot tub and everybody else fell asleep except for me and Christian. And so we were just hanging out in the hot tub. And then we just, you know, made out a little bit and stuff like that. but it was she's unlike anyone you'll ever meet she makes everybody around her feel good and feel special and feel understood she always puts everyone else before herself and it's very admirable and it's a beautiful quality to have she's just a really special person yeah i mean and i think that was what was so beautiful about this week is you know we hear you talk about her but then we got to see

her. And we got to see what it was that you see in her at the same time. And then just for her to come to be an outsider to come to paradise, this crazy world, this bachelor world, to fight for you. I mean, it really, really says a lot without having to say anything at all. It takes guts. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of people, Jimmy, want to know or they just want to understand. And I always say that nobody can understand a relationship like the two people that are in it. You can try to explain it. You can try to show them, but only the two people who are actually experienced it, get it. But people want to know, they want to understand, I guess, what it was like with you and Christian before and your decision to come on to Paradise. Because we obviously know that you had Christian support. But how did that conversation go when you approached Christian and you said, hey, I'm going to go on Paradise? So whenever I met her, I already knew I was going to paradise. I knew I was going to paradise for a long time.

And I was always very hesitant about our relationship moving to the next level. We kept it very surface level. I wouldn't have very serious conversations with her. And if they were serious conversations, it was me explaining about why I don't want to be committed. And it wasn't just like, oh, because I'm going on Bachelor in Paradise. It was because I wasn't ready to commit. I've been scared of commitment my whole life. And it was just like, look, I'm doing me right now.

If I get any further than where we're at in this like platonic kind of casual dating setting, it's going to make me super anxious and I'm not ready for it. And I don't know what I want to do. So she just responded by obviously being supportive. And I knew that I didn't want to lose her. I also was up front and honest with her about the fact that I could go to Paradise and I could meet somebody else and fall in love with someone else. And I don't know if you want to stick around for that and that risk that you're taking. So, you know, whatever you want to do whenever I go there, that's up to you.

I don't expect you to just wait around for me. And I'm not saying that I'm going to come back to you after this either. So were the two of you ever exclusive before you came to Paradise? No, we were not exclusive. I think that we spent most of our time together. I mean, we weren't really interested in anyone else, but I was always very open and upfront about the fact that I'm going to go to Paradise and I'm going to date other people. And I understand if you're not okay with that. And then if you're not okay with that, that's where we're going to have to end everything. But she was okay with it. She understood she knew that there was going to be that risk of not being with me, losing me. whenever I went to paradise. But it was always very open and honest and there was nothing was hidden. It was, we had so much communication about it that that's why I felt like it was okay for me to go. We have to take a quick break.

And I hate breaking right here because I feel like our conversation is flowing and it's so great to talk to you. But we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. As a viewer watching it, you could tell the love that you guys have. for each other. And I don't know if it's something like maybe you guys were both kind of lying to each other because kind of like a Katie Chris situation where she didn't want to say her full feelings because she was kind of protecting herself and it was a defense mechanism. But deep down inside, she didn't want him to go on the date. And I feel like that's kind of what we got between you and Christian. Christian really didn't want you to go to paradise and your feelings were deeper

for Christian than you were willing to admit. Is that what we were watching when we first saw you two together? Absolutely. I had no idea she felt as strongly as she did before she came on to Paradise. That was the first time that I had seen this super serious side of her that was so committed to me. I had no idea. And I also know that I suppressed a lot of my feelings because that's what I do to prevent myself from losing control of my emotions, like I said, on the show. So I was so surprised to see that she felt so strongly about me. And I mean, I was happy to know she felt that way, but I also felt bad because I didn't realize that I was hurting her by exploring my options. Well, I think, you know, there's that saying, right?

It's a very well-known saying, distance makes the heart grow fonder. And the reason that's a saying is because it's so. true. And that seems like it's exactly what happened in this scenario. I think one thing to me as a viewer that was very clear when watching is that there was no from Christian, oh, I didn't, you know, I didn't know you're coming here looking for a relationship or I didn't know this was happening. It was more just, oh, I'm hurt that you actually were able to have another relationship. So for me as a viewer, I understand why some people might think it wasn't clear between you. guys going in but not for me because I just saw her that that she didn't understand how your heart could go there because her feelings were very strong. Exactly. And I didn't know that they were that strong. And the last thing I wanted to do was hurt her. But at the same time, my mind is working in this crazy where I'm kind of keeping these things separate. I was like, okay, paradise is something that I am planning on doing. I'm going to go. I'm going to do it. I've got this casual relationship with

someone who she's okay with me going but i never really took the time to ask her how she really felt about it and of course i think she just told me like you know it go do your thing like i support you because she really liked me and wanted to support me no matter what um and so that is a perfect example of how our communication in the real world it was so different than our communication in paradise in paradise we actually had real conversations that we would never have outside of paradise just because I would avoid it. And it's awesome that I got to actually have these conversations and hear everything that she wanted to say. And we could just kind of work things out that we had been just kind of pushing to the side. Demi, I actually love

that you said that because what people don't understand about this world is that everything is heightened. Everything is so intense. And, you know, especially to bring in somebody from the outside into this world is still the exact same thing. Like, you do feel, I don't want to say pressure. That's not the right word. But everything is intensified because you don't have a phone and you don't have a TV and you don't have the internet and you just have each other and the real feelings that you have with one another. I want to ask you, because this is all I kept thinking. I kept thinking, oh my gosh, what would I be thinking if this happened to me? When Chris Harrison walks down those stairs and he comes and he gets you and he's like, hey,

Demi, can I talk to you for a moment? Because we all know when the god or fairy godfather Chris Harrison walks down those stairs, we know that something big is going to happen. What was your thought? Because surely it wasn't, oh, Christians waiting for me at the top of the stairs. I thought that he was sending me home, like saying like, you know, go home and go get woman. I had no idea. I mean, I literally had chocolate on my face and no makeup on and I looked a hot mess. I thought that I was going to go up to those stairs and it would be my producers that I worked with

and they'd be like, hey, let's go get your girl and, you know, you guys can be together if that's what you want. So whenever I saw that it was her at the top of the stairs, like, oh my gosh, I was shaking. It was incredible. It was, oh, I can't even describe it. There's nothing I've ever experienced like that in my life. And seeing her, I know I said in the episode, like, that's the moment that I knew. And it truly is, like, nobody's ever made me that excited in my life to see them. I bawled my eyes out. When I saw you guys see each other and just seeing the emotion there and it was so beautiful.

And when you looked beautiful, I know you're saying that, like, you didn't think you left your best. But I saw you and, like, I saw you in your rawest form. I saw you for you. your natural beauty, beauty in your heart, your love for this woman. I just, I thought it was one of the most beautiful moments I've ever seen on television and in life, I'm sure, just as beautiful. I mean, we've talked about this, Rachel, you and I before about how Bachelor has had such a stereotypical, like, relationship on the show or person. It's been like a white guy and a white girl fall in love and that's the show. It was that way for years.

And now finally, we're starting to see differences, right? different people diversity and relationships and ethnicity all of that so you might even have thought I mean this is what would have gone through my head if I were you is that oh they're not going to have a girl with girl relationship on the show did you ever think that as well yeah I thought that it might push away some of their viewers so I thought that they wouldn't take that risk I also thought that you know she's not a part of bachelor nation so why would she be there and so that made it all the more surprising for me. But I love that the franchise is branching out. And the fact that Chris Harrison made that happen and, you know, brought her there and everyone else that was behind it, it's incredible. And it shows like the forward movement that's happening with Bachelor Nation right now. Yeah, I got to piggyback on what you're saying, Demi, because, you know, and we've talked about this. I was the first black bachelorette. And, and, and, So, you know, obviously there was progression in that and it was diversifying the audience

and allowing the viewers to see someone who looks a little bit different, get love, which shouldn't be different from anybody no matter how you look or who you choose to decide to love. So I'm relishing in this moment that you're having because I think that we need to see this, to see a relationship where you're going after whoever it is. that you choose to love, whether it be a man or a woman, that's real life. And it's time to wake people up and for them to see it. And then to see your relationship with Christian and to be so genuine and the raw emotion. I mean, I just, it really, I really felt it. I really, really did. And one of the things that I want to commend you on, and Ali and I talk about this is that you, it also takes the right

person to be able to step out and step up. And you truly are the right person to do this. Not everybody can handle, you know, the negativity that may come their way. Not, not everybody may able to handle just being different. And you are handling it so well. And we truly want to commend you for that because it is beautiful to watch you do it. Like, I know you're just doing you, but you're doing you very well at the same time. Thank you so much. That seriously, like I just almost got teary eyes. I was like, stop to me. Don't cry. I don't know what it is. Maybe it was because Allie said she cried watching the episode, but it is just so. Bode my eyes out multiple times. Brinckin, beautiful. Now, I'm going to segue, since we're talking about tears, I'm going to segue a bit.

Ali cried. Deming, you're getting emotional. I'm getting emotional. Somebody else was emotional on the beach as well. And as much as I love talking about your relationship with Christian, you also had a relationship with somebody else in paradise. before we met Christian, and that's Derek. So I want to get into talking about Derek, and what was your immediate connection to Derek?

You know, I know you had Christian on your mind. I know you came to Paradise to be open, but there was something about Derek that really got to you, and what was that? So Derek and I have a similar sense of humor, self-deprecating, not really taking ourselves too seriously. You know, we can make fun of ourselves. and it was just instant and it was natural and it was easy and that's what really attracted me

to him the most. I could always be myself around him and we could have open and honest conversations and he was always very responsive in the best way. He always made me feel good and he made me feel heard and understood and there was no like negative qualities that I got from him. I never felt the way that most men have made me feel in my life. Like I was never made to feel stupid by him. He was never like gaslighting me. Like he was listening to me. And it was just like any other relationship that I've ever had with a man or a woman that really just attracted me to him.

And him being so woke whenever I would tell him about my relationship back home with a woman, he wasn't upset that it was a woman. He was upset that my heart was with someone else. It didn't matter to him, the gender of the person. And him being woke was very attractive to me. I thought one thing that was just really amazing and just shows why you were attracted to Derek was just how he responded when Christian came and their conversation together. I just think that it just shows the level of respect he not only had for you, but for your relationship. How did that make you feel And how did that make it easier for you?

Whenever I told Derek about Christian being there, I was terrified of how he was going to respond. I knew he'd be upset. But the fact that he wanted to go meet her first, I was even more scared at that point. I was like, oh no, oh no. What's he going to say to her? What's going to happen?

But he proved to be the person that I knew, that I know that he is, because whenever he met her, he just wanted to be respectful. And in the back of his mind, he was trying to make me feel more comfortable with all of it, too. Instead of them just kind of awkwardly avoiding each other around the beach, he wanted to make sure that he talked to her first. And he ultimately did that for me. And that just proved, like, he is an amazing person. So, Demi, thinking back, is there anything that you would have changed about your relationship with Derek? absolutely not you know I known Derek for a few days before I had the conversation with him about someone I was thinking about back home and I think it's fair that I wanted to get to know him to the point to know I was ready to pursue him and once I knew I was very interested in him I wanted to be honest with what was happening back home it's not like I was just going to initially meet this man and be like oh yeah by the way I just had this relationship that was casual etc etc etc

And I didn't know that it was as serious as it was until she got there. And once she got there, that's whenever everything felt more serious. We were never exclusive. We were never committed before Paradise. And I think that time apart, as he said earlier, absence makes the heart grow fonder. That's when we realize, like, we can't be without each other. Like, we need to be in each other's lives. And we realized how strong our feelings actually were.

And my feelings for Derek were very strong too. And that's why I let him in on that piece of my life because I felt like he deserved to know. But I think, you know, you also on the show were very clear about the fact that you, it became more serious for you in your mind pretty much as Bachelor in Paradise went on because you realized, like you said on the show over and over, that you cared for her so much more than you realized when you left for Bachelor in Paradise. Exactly. There are no words that I can use to describe the feeling that I felt whenever I saw her. I had no idea how strong my feelings really were because I had been suppressing so many feelings that I had for her just to keep it casual and protect myself because that's what I always do. That's why I've been single for all 24 years of my life for the most part. I don't know what it is like, Demi, to be in your position. I don't know what it's like to open up about my sexuality and tell people. where judgment could come down on me for something so personal, so intimate, so to my core.

That has got to be the most terrifying thing in the entire world. And you talked about that, how opening up to your family was very scary. I have chills right now because I truly cannot imagine what it would be like having to do that on a platform like Bachelor in Paradise to Bachelor Nation, where there are not thousands, not hundreds of thousands, millions of people there to judge you for your choices. Being with Derek, yeah, that would have been the safe choice, but you didn't. You went with your heart and you chose to open up and you chose to let us into your life. And I think that's one of the reasons so many people out there support you is because that's brave. You are a warrior.

You are a champion. you are brave woman and I can't just help but be proud to be sitting across from you having this conversation. I adore you. And you know what I think it is too, Allie? I think it's the battle of what you are told to do versus what you feel like you're supposed to do. And that's why I love the conversation that you were having with your friends on the beach when you were confiding in them, Demi, and you were telling them, you know, what you're. You know, what you're struggling with and oh everybody sees this demi but there's so many other sides of me and that was such a relatable moment to me whether you're talking about love career or just things you want to do

in life in general so many people are told what they're supposed to do or feel like they have to fit into a certain box and that was a moment where you were stepping outside of that box and saying this is who I am accept me for who for who I want to be and that applies to any facet of life. And I think that that is what is so great about your journey on Bachelor in Paradise is that it is applicable to anything. And that's why I'm going to piggyback on the words that Ali was saying about being a champion and a warrior and being a trailblazer because it is so relatable in so many different ways. Thank you guys. Oh my God. I can't. But it is. And that's why and that's what we say somebody give her a tissue i know because i'm not there i'm not there but

no but dimmy i i just i i guess oh god i'm going to cry here they come i know i am too rachel no because i just one of the moments for me i didn't realize and ali asked you this question did you realize what you were doing when you decided to do it and when i said yes to being the the first black bachelorette, I didn't realize how big of a deal it was going to be until someone came to me and said, you know, I used to not watch the show. Now I can watch it because I see someone who looks like me or my daughter watches the show. And that's the kind of way people are going to respond to you. Not even just to be in a same-sex relationship, but just believing in something, going against the grain and saying, this is who I am, accept me for who I am

or don't, but I'm going to live my life. And that is what is so beautiful about it. And that's what makes us so emotional when we talk about it because it's bigger than just having a same-sex relationship. It's just being, not being afraid to be who you are. And that's what I want people to see when they see your journey through all of this. So I felt very safe with Derek and I would be, anyone would be so lucky to be with him. But he just wasn't my person. He made me feel very safe. But my heart wasn't in the relationship completely. And once I saw Christian, I knew that. The way that Derek responded to you shows that you were upfront and honest because he had the utmost respect for you whether i'm sure he disagreed with it because he had feelings for you and he

was hurt but at the same time he respected your decision and that's because you were honest with him and and so were you surprised to see that derrick wanted to talk to christian and just his entire response to the to the situation oh i was absolutely surprised i didn't know if he was going to be weirded out by everything you know um i mean he had proved me in the past few conversations that it doesn't matter who you're still thinking about back home. It's just the fact that you're thinking about someone and not about me. But every time I had a conversation with him, he just proved more and more to be this amazing guy that I should have been like completely stoked to be with. But the fact that I kept thinking about someone else, let me know that this isn't

my person. And the person I'm thinking about is. And so I just have so much respect for Derek for having so much respect for me. And he's going to be my friend for the rest of my life. Hands down. I need that guy in my life. If you find someone like that, you need them in your corner. What has been the fan reaction to you stepping out and just showing the world who you are? It's been really amazing. Honestly, there's been so many people who have reached out to me and they've opened up to me about their sexuality and how I've given them a little bit of strength. And that makes me, tear up every time I see them because the fact that I'm touching these lives just by being who I am, it means so much to me and it really just touches my heart. There are, of course,

going to be some haters. I would say like one in every 100,000 people has something bad to say about it. So a little bit of hate, but it's all outweighed with all of the love for this and people feeling more and more comfortable to be who they are and to come out in their own way. It's honestly very moving. We can't let you go, Demi, without sort of talking about the rest of paradise because there's a whole season ahead of us. There's a lot more to see. And as we know, Christian now is in paradise with you.

How are you feeling about everything? Like, what can we expect? How are you feeling about everyone seeing your relationship unfold? You know, okay, what to expect? Let's just say it's not going to be perfect. It's not like she gets to paradise and now all of a sudden we're in a perfect happy relationship and we're running off into the sunset together. There's still going to be problems.

There's still going to be real people issues and relationship problems and you'll get to see us go through some things together. As far as I'm feeling, I feel very relieved that now she's here and I don't have to worry about seeing our interaction together because it is, it makes me feel good seeing it. it makes me tear up, reliving all of those emotions. So I'm excited for everyone to get to see what we go through together. I'm excited to get to watch back this crazy journey that we went through together. It was a really fun summer, but it was not all fun.

It was very emotional and it was very real. And like I said, we wouldn't have had these moments without paradise. In the real world, we would still be on the surface level. You were ready for it. You kind of had to decide in that moment, whether you were you. you are ready for it or not, if you were comfortable putting all of yourself out there, it's one thing to talk about it, like you said, but to show it, were you terrified? Very much so. I was very anxious about it, too, and that's where, you know, you'll see my anxiety play into this

this season. My anxiety was very high level just because of the fact that people were going to see me making out with a girl on camera. And that's just terrifying. And, You even think about the cameramen that are seeing it. And you think about the audio guys, like I said. It's not just as simple as, oh, you're in the moment with this person. Like, yes, I'm in the moment with this person. And sometimes I could stay there. But my mind was constantly wandering around and thinking about all the different people seeing it.

And I let it affect me too much. But at the end of it all, like I will say that I overcame it. So that's good. that's great was christian part of helping you overcome that or did you guys help each other through that definitely

she's very very supportive of me and she helped me through it a lot i could have helped her more i would say but she was always there for me one question i just want to ask because i think this is just a general question that bachelor nation wants to know but why did you choose to share your story

on the Batser Nation platform. Because there's so many ways you could have done it. I think that, well, I always knew I was going to go to Paradise. That was already in the cards for me. And I had been struggling with the conversations of coming out to everyone. And, you know, do I, like, tweet it or should I Instagram it? Or am I going to have a million different conversations about it? I wanted to just have one big moment of,

clearing the air. And so that's why I did it on Paradise because I knew then I could avoid having so many conversations and just be straight up about it right then and there. And I mean, I felt comfortable to do it at that point. Demi, go big or go home. That's the only way to do it. That's what you do. That's literally your motto. That's what we've seen in there you. I feel like you are going to spark so many conversations all over the country between moms and sons and dads and daughters and friends and just people who have been scared to come out about who they are you are going to give i'm going to cry you're going to give them the strength to do that i'm so proud of you i'm so we are honored that you came here on our podcast to talk to us thank you so much

bring christian on at some point yes i would love to talk to her we can't wait to see you guys this season you're an incredible human being thank you for being here thank you guys so much We're going to let Demi go, but after this, we're going to be talking to Nicole from Bachelor in Paradise as well. She's got a lot to talk about with that fight between Christian and Jordan. Welcome back. We have Nicole joining us on the phone. Nicole, thanks so much for calling in. Oh, my God, of course. I'm so excited to be here. Nicole, you've been a hot commodity on this season of Paradise. I mean, you mentioned it yourself. You said, I went from no one-on-one dates to here I am going on three one-on-one dates. Like, what was that like for you? I was so surprised. You could even see it on my face. I was just like, I thought, you know, okay, Oneyaka's going to be here. There's going to be drama. I'm probably not even going to get like a guy to look at me.

And then all of a sudden, it's like, bam, bam, bam. I'm going on one day. Then on the next day, I'm with Jordan. It was just incredible. Oh, my gosh. I completely forgot that you had an issue with Anyaka. Yes. How did that happen?

I mean, were y'all okay in paradise? Did y'all talk it out? Are we all good before walking in? No, I mean, we were just good. Like, you know, it was really rocky on Colton season of The Bachelor, but then once we got our feet in the sand, that was it. No drama. Water. No, Colton. Yeah. Take the guy out of the equation. It's all good. No. I mean, it had to feel pretty good. I would have been like, heck, yes, all these guys. Because it has to be nerve wracking going into paradise, wondering if you're going to hit it off with anybody. And then if you have to sort of like do the pit. I mean, Rachel, you and I have talked about this, the pity kiss. You know, we are like making out with somebody at the Rose ceremony. or the cocktail party just so you can get their rose. You didn't have that problem. No, at all.

But, I mean, I thought I was going to have that problem. All the producers, people were coming up to me. Like, Nicole, you have to make a move. You have to make a move. And I was like, I can't. I'm not good at this. I'm used to guys, like, hitting on me at the bar. I'm not used to, like, being the one who has to pursue guys.

And then it just happened naturally. Like, Clay went up to me. I was like, all right, I'll go on date with you. And then Jordan went up to me. It just started happening, like, a ripple effect. And Christian zeroed in on you. I mean, he didn't even talk to another girl. it was it was pretty intense i think i heard you say that you didn't know who he was which was my

same thought i said who's this man but and is that true did you not know who he was no i had no idea he looked like some soap opera some actor i was like who is this person yeah such a character i was dying i can guarantee which role he would have played in a soap opera um coming into paradise did you have your eye on anyone in particular we know everyone had their eye on you. What were you thinking coming in? No, I just, I had no idea who was going to be there. You know, I'm one of those girls who, unlike some people, you know, I had, I didn't study into any DMs. I wasn't at stagecoach. You know what I mean? Like I just, I just showed up to the beach, not knowing who's going to be there. So I had no idea. Even that first day, you could see,

I wasn't even involved in that much talk or drama because I had no idea who I was going to be interested in. No clue. Then some drama sort of came around. Um, what did you? you think standing there, because, you know, obviously we saw this fight break out, which was very unfortunate. What did it feel like being sort of the person that these guys were fighting over? Oh, I still can't believe it. I mean, obviously it's unfortunate that they had to get physical because that was scary, but I knew Jordan was going to be up to no good, especially with Christian and I know they had like some beef at the mental law like a year ago so it was just crazy being in being the center of it and I'm just sitting there like is this real like at first I

thought the fight was fake I thought it was like a stage fight so I was like ha ha ha and then I see producers like running up to Christian and Jordan and I was like wait this is real you know this is actually happening yeah no it it was intense to see the buildup of it I I guess I want to ask you when it comes to Clay because I know at one point you and Clay walk on the beach and you kind of tell him, you know, Christian was standing over you, he was towering over you, and you didn't do anything, you need to, you know, stand up and fight. And then the next thing we see is an actual physical altercation happen. Are you okay with the way Clay handled it and do you understand why he took that route? Oh my gosh, yeah. The fight made me appreciate Clay so much. It made me realize

like the kind of man I'm looking for, someone who isn't hot-tempered, who's just going to react on something, you know, physically or get violent. It made me realize, wow, I was so wrong, like, Clay actually has these characteristics that I'm looking for. You know, he's like, you know, he's tame, like he's mature, a gentleman. He processes his feelings. He's not just going to, like, react because someone punched a pinata. Boys fight. Men do what Clay did. Yep. Ooh. Could I have said it better? Yeah. So, you know, the guys got sent home. You know, it's hands off. And, you know, knowing the show, they are very serious about the contestant's safety. And Jordan and Christian crossed that line. So they had to go. But putting that aside, how did that feel for you? Because we obviously see you move forward with Clay. And I'm so glad you did because I love him so much. But how did that feel? Because you had a really intense connection with Christian. So were you sad in that moment? I mean, put yourself back in that moment. I know you move forward with Clay, but in that moment, you had to be a little bit angry.

Yeah, I kind of wish I would have gotten that closure from both them. Like, I wish I would have been able to hand out roses and give them a reason why I didn't choose them. Or like, I don't know. I just like, I had so much more to say to Christian and to Jordan. And I never got that closure from either of them. So it felt like that was just taken away from me. But at the same time, it just made my decision. position so much easier and I was like thankful for it you know it was just like meant to be when you say that you had more that you wanted to say are you saying like you wanted to get to know them better or you just needed to get something off your chest I guess I just wanted to get to know them better but honestly that example it like showed me everything it turned out like the way they reacted to that fight is exactly what I need to see and speaking of showing people things now When I was watching, and I saw Christian roll up to the time that you were having with Clay, I mean, the red flags were just waving in the wind. The way he approached that situation and tried to basically, you know, monopolize your time when he had just had you all day, was that a red flag for you?

Were you starting to kind of see the writing on the wall with him, or did you just brush that situation off? Because I felt like that was the slippery slope or a slippery slope. that's so true because I was a little bit worried you know I like the cockiness but I was worried he'd be like a little bit of a macho like that there's like that side to Christian yeah machismo so I was a little bit worried about that and then the moment he went up to me and Clay I just saw it I saw like you know he was like puffing up his chest just like trying to prove a point that he can you know have his way with me basically or like tell me what to do but you know this is paradise the rule of the game is that we get to date multiple people and and I have a say. So yeah, definitely it was like the biggest red flag and I should have just been like no. Yeah, because there's like a line between like showing that you really care about someone and being forward and fighting for them, obviously not in the physical sense, but and then acting the way he acted. There's a big difference between those two things

and he, I guess I shouldn't say it's a fine line with him. It's a huge difference. And he just obviously didn't handle that correctly. But tell us about Clay. I just, adore him. He's always such a fan. I'm such a fan. I just feel like he is just such a good human being, a teddy bear. I love the way he respects you. Like, he, he didn't care about himself when Christian was coming at him. It wasn't about him. It was about you. And that's actually about Tyler on Hannah's season. What I loved about Tyler, he always made it about Hannah and thinking about her. And I feel like that's what Clay does with you. So tell us all about him. Oh my gosh. I know. It's just crazy. Like, it just happened. The chemistry

happened immediately after that first one-on-one day. And I had no idea it was going to be coming. Because the first day I met him, we were both like, what are we going to do? I even told him, I don't know if I like anyone here. I was venting to him like a friend. Like I had no idea of some like amazing chemistry was like bound to happen at all. And then when we finally just started talking and oh my gosh, it was just, I feel like I was talking to a best friend the entire time.

And that's when I know it's real. That's when I start getting like that feeling, you know, because it wasn't just like, I find up attractive. Because obviously he is. I mean, he's like this, you know, this male specimen on the beach. Everyone's like, Nicole, is that your man? I'm like, yeah. Yeah, all the, all the ladies, it was like the morning routine. Let's see what workout clay's doing today. It's so true. It literally was a routine. I have a question for you. What was inside the pinata? I'll never know. I had no idea. I didn't know. No, I swear. I hope it was like diamonds or something, like something amazing to like fight over and leave over.

It was probably pictures of Christian himself. Probably his little modeling shot. You were right there in the middle of the fight when it happened or as it was starting. In your opinion, who was at fault? Jordan or Christian? Wait, you know what's crazy? It's such a blur. Like, I have no idea.

I feel like, obviously Jordan is the one who was like stampeding towards us. So I was like, oh, no, here we go. But at that moment, it's such a blur. All I saw is, like, bodies on the ground, like flying. like literally arms wailing and then it was just like producers and security all up in my base and I was just stunned sitting there and I'm so mad at Jordan I mean I'm mad at both of them and I'm so mad at Jordan because Jordan was just the comedic relief of the show that I needed with all this drama I mean I love the love story I love you and Clay together I love all that but like he

makes me laugh out loud like I find myself spitting out my wine while I'm watching the show with the things that come out of his mouth so I'm just disappointed at him that that happened I really wanted him to stick around, but you weren't really into him. Let's face it, right? Or like, I don't know, even after the end of our date, he was like, all right, Nicole, peace. It was great seeing you. I was like, oh, okay, you know how he is. He was just like, pat on the back. I'm like, oh, all right, buddy. You know how he is. Since that was his approach, do you feel like, like, looking back, I know it was all a blur to you. You don't really remember the details per se, but knowing that that's how he responded after

your date, him knowing that you were really into Clay and you had this, you know, attraction to Christian as well. Do you think that maybe in regards to the fight he was thinking, I don't have anything else to lose. I have a point to prove. I don't like the way that Christian's handling this. So I'm just going to go for it. Yeah, it's probably exactly what went through his mind, actually. I think you nailed it. He knew he had nothing to lose. Like, I wasn't really part of, like, he wasn't really thinking about me at that moment. It was just about proving a point. You know, last year, I mean, he dumped like the huge teddy bear in the ocean. This year it was going to be the pinata. I feel like it was going to be a similar theme like that. And then

it just escalated because Christian, you know, he's like a fiery Latin man who just reacted out of the blue. And I think what some people are going to be thinking to, and I want to give you the opportunity to address this because I don't want people to feel this way, is that, you know, there's a lot of talk on the show. And I don't feel this way, but there's a lot of talk on the show in past seasons about pity roses, right? They got a pity rose. What do you want people to know about your decision to move forward with Clay because I want to, I want to know as a Clay like, I feel like I'm Clay's mama bear or something. I want to protect him. I want to know like that you would have chosen him regardless. Oh my gosh. Yes. And I mean, I kind of like

wanted to test the waters a little bit to see how Clay would react. But deep, deep down, I feel like we both had that mutual understanding that it was always going to be Clay. And I even told him that. And it was just like this obvious thing. Like I almost felt like okay I'm going to have some fun and I even told him like hey you're more than welcome to go on a date like if someone were to show up while I'm gone like please go take that date but we had that mutual understanding and I just trusted him like we're off the bat even when you went on the date with Jordan you're like I'm just doing it to get so I'll know what a hot commodity I am yeah and then people even saw me waving at him and they thought they thought it was hilarious but I actually was waving because I was like okay bye like can't wait to see you after like I was actually I meant it like I meant bye like I was just like okay bye Like, I knew nothing was going to happen. Sorry. Speaking of the date that you had with Jordan, I mean, you had to have seen it because you were all over social media.

I mean, normally we say the gift that keeps on giving, but it was the GIF, the gift that kept on giving. Those faces that you were making on that zip line. I mean, how did you feel? Were you upset? Oh, my God. They were wrong for that. They were wrong. And you know it, Nicole.

There was like some weird fish eye lens on the kids. camera or something. Your face was completely distorted. I know. What was that? And of course, I'm like really, really terrified of ride. I'm one of those people who I hate roller coasters. I hate, I've never been ziplining. I would probably, I'll probably never go again in my entire life unless like I did as a joke with Jordan or something. But I was so terrified that in that little fish eye lens, I was just doing breathing exercises. That's why you see my lips like purse and like I do always creepy little mouth movement. Because I'm like literally just breathing. I'm like, that was not you. I'm convinced that was not you.

Thank you. It wasn't me. And that was, yeah, we'll start that trend going. Hashtag not Nicole. Not Nicole. And put some, like, beauty pageant picture of me up. Like, this is the real hair. Well, maybe we'll put a beauty pageant picture up alongside these photos of the faces you're making up on bachelorination.com.

Oh, God. Oh, no. Sorry. They're both going to do there. I've actually already been doing it because I'm like, you know what? Let me just beat the punch. Like, people are going to be making fun of me forever. So let me just join in.

So I've been tweeting, like, my own. I like that you can laugh at yourself. Yeah, you have to. I was dying laughing. I just, like, I couldn't stop laughing. Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and we'll be back with more Nicole on Bachelor Happy Hour. All right, we are back. And Nicole, I've got to know, what's in store for you in the season of Paradise?

Are we going to see you and Clay walk off into the sunset? Well, I can't give away too much, but I will say it's going to get juicy. It's going to get fun. and I'm excited for everyone to see. Is there going to be less drama? I mean, I kind of like the drama, but I'm also kind of over the Blake drama. Or is that still going?

No, I mean, I think we're going to see a different, some drama from some new faces. That's all I can say. Some new faces, some new drama. But I think, yeah, you're going to see me go through a lot of emotions, but I'm going to, I don't know,

it's going to be pretty good. And I'm really excited for everyone to see. That's how we first fell in love with you. All the emotions that you showed us. Nicole, real quick, I want to give you a moment to speak on this because you've been active about this on Twitter. You have been, and I get this because, you know, we need to be representative of the diversity that we do have on the show. And you've spoken out, I guess there would be people who have attacked you when it comes to speaking Spanish or trying to prove that you can speak Spanish or just being Latin in general. And I want to give you a moment to really talk about that because you have been very.

vocal about that on Twitter. Yeah, I mean, I definitely know that I am a minority when it comes to the amount of like Latin women who have been in the franchise. So I do know that, you know, I have some like responsibility just to carry myself and to represent myself well because I know it is a big deal. I don't look like every other contestant. So it is, you know, shocking or sad to see. People just, yeah, like, be like, oh, I can't, I can't even tell a difference between B.B. and Nicole, or just little comments like that where, you know, it's 2019. I mean.

That's crazy. I can't believe people are saying that. People are awful. You can't even. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's hard to put to worse because I've honestly been, I haven't faced that much backlash over that. But, yeah, the worst are comments, some comments that I've been brave enough to. call out. And that's been kind of scary. You know, Twitter is like a dark hole sometimes. So I know that, you know, I have some haters whenever I call out certain things, but I truly love being Hispanic and I love representing that community on The Bachelor. And I think it's amazing. And hopefully more Latin girls start applying. And we get more of that, more Latin guys and there's more flare and then, you know, of all minorities. And that's why I want you to speak out about it just because you're right maybe a minority in bats or nation but not reflective of what you're representing in the real world and so I just want you to have the opportunity it is hard to sometimes speak out

and to go against the grain but you have and you are and you are a beautiful representation of who you are I just wanted to address that on the podcast because we're on this podcast we are all about representing everybody I couldn't agree more and the amount of messages I get from like all minorities and all girls across like the country who are like wow like I really relate to you. I relate to your story. I come from a similar family of immigrants. And it's just an incredible thing to know that, you know, I've inspired them. And they're like, wait, like, should I be applying? Oh my gosh. Like, maybe, like, I could see myself up there. Yes. And it's been wonderful. Yeah. You're definitely changing and making a positive impact on so many lives.

So you should be very, very proud of that. Thank you so much. Nicole, thank you so much for calling in today. It was really great to talk to you. And really, truly, we cannot wait to see what the rest of paradise has in store for you. Thanks, Nicole. Okay, you guys, you know we love to hear from you, so you have to tell us what you like and what you don't like about our podcast. Tell us what you want to hear more of. We'd love to hear from you. You can email us at happy hour at bachelornation.com, or you can visit us at bachelornation.com and click podcast. My boyfriend's professor is way too friendly, and now I'm seriously suspicious. Wait a minute, Sam. Maybe her boyfriend's just looking for extra credit. Well, Dakota, luckily,

It's back to school week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This person writes, my boyfriend's been hanging out with his young professor a lot. He doesn't think it's a problem, but I don't trust her. Now he's insisting we get to know each other, but I just want her gone. Hold up. Isn't that against school policy? That seems inappropriate. Maybe find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, I sat down with Jasmine and Crockett, Democratic representative of Texas.

She's holding out the fork for her party in one of the most conservative states in the union. I think that ultimately, who will become the Democratic nominee for president will be someone that has been out there and has shown that they won't allow themselves to be punched and just say thank you. Like, they will punch back. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's start with a quick puzzle.

The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be Kenspiracy theorists. That's right. They gave you the answers and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

This is an IHeart podcast.