Bachelor Happy Hour - Exclusive: Kat Izzo Breaks Her Silence on Her Split with Dale 

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

Today on “Happy Hour,” Kat Izzo is sitting down for her first interview to address her breakup with Dale Moss. No more speculation, no more rumors, no more uncertainty: Kat is here to set the record straight and give us every drop of tea behind this split. In part one of this juicy interview, we're getting into the post-“Paradise” drama, the cracks that started to form, and the messy behind-the-scenes from the “Paradise: Unplugged Reunion.” Tune in now and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, especially part two dropping TOMORROW! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from How to Money. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high. And the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right.

Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on. And the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka Neurilingual Programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you only listen to one thing to make sense of the news this year, make it this.

The final episode of this season of Next Question pulls together the most important conversations of the year. You'll hear David Graham on Project 2025, Liz Oyer on the plethora of presidential pardons, Tina Brown on the year's biggest scandals here at home and across the pond, plus much, much more. It's a crash course in the last 12 months, how we made it through the year, and a look at what might be coming in 2026. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is You can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com Now through February 22nd.

See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. This show contains information subject to, but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more.

What's up, man? This your boy, Nav Green, from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs are here. Guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs.

They're Chief. It's time to rebuild. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network. on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcast or whatever you get your podcast. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hour. I'm Rachel, and Charity is with us today via Zoom. And we have a very, very special guest joining us.

Everyone, please welcome the one and the only, the one of her kind. Kat iso. Hello. Hi, Kat. Hi. Truly the one and only. Please, that's really scary. I'm scared for this episode.

I'm not. I'm excited. I know you are. I'm so excited to have you here, first of all. Thank you. There's been a lot that's been going down recently, and we are time to talk about it. We're going to talk about all of it today. Yeah, I wouldn't want to talk about it with anybody else for the first time.

Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited. So I guess where do we start? There's too much. I could I have anywhere you want. Okay, so Batsar Nation, the last that they saw you, you were in a relationship. That is true. You were kale.

Oh, Jesus. Yeah. The couple name is crazy. Yeah, yeah. I guess I was in a relationship last time you guys saw me. And last time I guess I spoke publicly. So this is my first time speaking, but things have changed. Things have changed.

Wow. Okay, we're going to dive into all of that today. I think we should start with maybe, I guess, give us a little summary about your time on Paradise, because as we all know it, that was your second time back and a much better experience around this time around, I would say. Hey, I loved first time with you. Yeah, well, let me take one of us. Okay. It's because it was really scary, but I loved having you on the beach, Rachel. That was great. We had some good times. Hearing cats, screaming from the palapas, I ran and chased Sean down.

the beach. There was never be anything like it. Yeah, no, you can, you can hear, I can still hear my screaming. Um, no, this time was so much better. It was so different. I mean, obviously, we had better conditions in my opinion. Air conditioning. Yeah. And overall, just coming in like, clean slate, didn't know anybody had no preconceived notions was so much more refreshing, because then you can just really see people for who they are without any judgment. Um, and then obviously it turned into a competition. So we had that aspect. that was really fun having the challenges. But it did bring people closer together, I think.

So a lot of couples came out of it, me included. And you really got to like see people in a easier light than I think before because you weren't like in fight or flight as sweating. No, literally sweating and like wearing makeup. So you actually felt pretty. No, can't watch. You play the games was my favorite part. Oh, which one?

You mean the bug crash out? Yeah. Insane. Insane TV. I couldn't. help that. That was a true panic attack. I loved watching you though. I think it takes a lot, you know, the last time you were engaged. Yes. And then to come back again and really put yourself out there, I feel like we saw a completely different side of you. Yeah. You were just, I feel like so

understanding and caring and I just loved that side of you. And so I was so excited for this relationship. I mean, Dale, he's a little older. Right. More mature. I feel like that's what you need. No, so it's not the case. Yeah. That's what we hope for, right? But that's with everybody. No, truly, I actually know nothing about what has gone down since. So I'm in my seat. I'm strapped in. No, this season, I feel... And I'm buckling my seatbelt.

I mean, I don't need alcohol. I'm ready. I like... Actually, though, like, I would love... A shot of tequila? Like, what do I need for what is about to happen? Should we start the episode off with a good cheers? Because, like, you know, I just want to set the moon.

I mean, you guys are in person and I'm not there. But, like, we can cheers with... We can cheers with a good clean water. It's okay. It is so bachelor to do a cheers before anything we do. That is so scary. We want to take the toast away. I know you can give a toast.

So here's to, I have mine in my little tumbler, but here's to a great episode. Here's to Cat Izzo's growth and character development because it's never, it's always evolving. Always. Cheers to that.

And here's to us getting some good tea, good story time, and honestly just good vibes all around. So to a great episode, ladies. And don't forget cheers to love. Oh, to love. And to love, obviously. Live, love, love.

To us, truly. To us. I do wish this was something stronger because I'm getting really sweaty. I can't wait until dry January is over with. I'm not going to lie. Anyway. Oh, are you actually doing that? Absolutely not.

I'm not either. I do not. Charity, you're a better woman than both of us. I'm dread. I'm absolutely not. Okay. Okay, yeah, we should just really get into this. I don't want to take up any more time.

I'm like I'm on the edge of my seat personally, truly, quite, You just have to guide me because it is, I feel like it's a lot, like all of it together. So, yeah. Okay, Kat. So obviously with you going back to Paradise, you had no idea who was there. But I guess because we know you and Dale left in a relationship, what did you know about him prior to going to paradise, anything? Like, did you have your eyes set on him? Were you hoping that he was going to be on the beach?

What was your expectations? I really, like, did not know anything. anyone at all or their background story. Like I knew of him because he dated like a previous bachelorette. But as far as like the intricacies and like the details and stuff, like all I just knew he was like attractive and that he was older. So I was like, that probably comes with like good things. But I really like did not know too much other than that.

Like kind of let everything like be really like in the moment. Yeah, I feel like we didn't get to know him at all on Claire's season. And this is the first time I got to know Dale. Yeah. I mean, I didn't even follow him on social media. Like, I didn't even know what he did for work. I didn't know what he did for his life. I didn't know, like, anything.

So everything I, like, discovered was there. And I think I'd overheard that, like, potentially, like, someone that was older, like, was going to be there. I was going to say, did you have him on your list? I didn't have a list, Rachel. Oh, no. You know I love to ask. You know I had a list last time. You know I had.

Oh, my God. I knew their sun, moon and star sun. I could literally list cast list from one to three with the amount of love. list talking we talked about. Yeah, we were all said like, like, that's the thing. And it truly is. But I really, like, I signed my contract like at stagecoach, like the weekend before. Like, I literally was like, I don't know if I'm gonna go. I personally love that, you know, you at least did not have a list. No. It really changes it. For your season before, like, I think everyone had like a ranking of like they knew what guys were coming. Charity, you have no idea

the way that the girls would talk in the makeup room. And it's like, Tyler's her number one, but Tanner's my number three. And he's, I was like, who cannot. I date. Just tell me which one. I was like, just tell me which one a date. No, you were like so scared. Yeah.

Which would terrify me or anyone, honestly. Yeah, and I was on the beach with my friends. And I was, I didn't even know the girls. Like, you didn't have anyone from your season. And I was like, so you were just like,

so much better. Whoever goes on the stairs. Like, it was so much better that way. You just, I mean, for, you care. No, I loved it. I loved meeting you guys. Yeah. But, like, it's just better when you don't come in with, like,

an idea because then you won't, like, limit your, like, emotional availability. So yeah, with him, I really just, like, took in for what I saw. So, like, if it wasn't kicking it, then I, like, clocked it. Because then I feel like you're able to notice when things feel off because you don't have this, like, idea of this fantasy that you've already created. Versus, like, first time I did it, there was probably a ton of signs for different reasons. But I had created something already in my head that you overlook it. So you can really just, like, be present with the person and the people in general.

So, yeah. So like when he came to the beach or when he like had his arrival day, like what went through your mind? I mean, I feel like I could see the light behind his eyes just like explode. Twinkle, twinkle. Oh my gosh. It was like love at first sight is what it seems. You were talking to Jonathan.

You're like, I does not love at first sight. It looked like it. I'm dead. I was excited. I was excited because I was like, okay, like he's older, you know. and like I like hope that comes with different like things that like I feel like I align more with like people that are a little bit older than I am just in life like we have similarities with our seat like where our stages is at typically but that can always I'm open to whatever but and then we didn't really get much time the first day because we had like rain so we went to bed pretty early and then yeah I don't know I was just like excited to see somebody new on the beach. Because I kind of like really was still feeling everyone out. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I was going to ask like at that point where you like, did you have yourself maybe set on anybody before he came? No. I don't think I was set at all. Like, it's just not like a thing. Like I was so fluid. It was so weird. No, you like, I'm like, why am I so chill right now? Like, what's going on?

I feel like your time on the beach. Like you guys did go through so much. We did. Like you went through the hardships and watching you have serious. mature conversations. Like when I saw you doing that, I think this did so good. Well, because we know you could do it.

I'm like, I was so proud of you. But watching that, I'm like, okay, this is definitely going to work out outside of paradise. Like you guys went to the beach. Then you were like whist off. You were like in Vegas.

You were all over the place. Like making out with your man. So after the show, it was like still hot and heavy. I mean, so like there was definitely like, we went through a lot of ups and downs that you can correlate into real life. that I don't really feel like I experienced the first time.

So that was a little bit more promising. But you know being in this environment that no matter what, like, you experience there, you never know how life is going to be when you leave. When work comes into play, family priorities, everything like that. Like, I really need my partner to prioritize me because that's how I move in a relationship. And that's become more of my, like, non-negotiable. And I feel like this is probably the first relationship I've ever been in where, like, my needs and wants are so clear and I'm able to communicate them.

So if they're not needing that, like I can clock it in that in real time. And I felt like we had like glimpses of moments that could potentially like lead to something great. But it really just comes down to like in real life. And then so when we first got off the show, it was good. He came and saw me like right away in San Diego. Because he's in New York, right? Yeah. And when I was on the show, I was like, hey, these are all the things that are experience.

like first time and I need to make sure that like they're not going to do that I was very clear that I'm not leaving San Diego I just got there and you both are engaged so you know what it's like to right like that exactly sorry these are hurting my little ears um so yeah I was very clear of like I don't do long distance I don't want to do long distance and I'm willing to put in some time if that's the goal and we're moving towards it like actively and I was under the impression that his life is really fluid at the moment so he was able to like he want he said he wanted to to leave New York and all these things. And it sounds like San Diego was like a total option. And I was like, okay, that's like kind of perfect. If that's something like that was in the way beginning. Like I don't even think I would have spent more than like five minutes if that was not discussed early on. Because that was such like a clear thing that I knew I wanted. And I was very like set on like, this is where I'm living.

So. Because what does he do for work? Yeah. Oh. Because you're a very talented. That's what I can talk about. I just don't really know. Okay.

So we still don't know. No shade to it. I think it's a combination of like, I know he should be moving to you. Because you have a job. I have an established job. I have an established like client community and everything like that. Granted, so his job definitely is centered around like public spacing. Okay.

So is he a model? Yeah. I saw him in like, I think. A couple of costumes. Rachel, I truly am going to fall out this chair. For party city. Is it party city? If I say one, please.

You know what? He owns a tripod. Okay. He owns a tripod. He took those pictures in the taco costume? Oh, no, no. But his job requires the tripod and like, in lighting stuff for sure.

And a ring light and, like, physically ill today. And you know what? Listen, I get it. I, you know, same. Yeah, same because we're girlies. But like, I will never date a man that owns a tripod again. I will actually never. That is number one on my list.

If you own a tripod, you're out. So sorry. The only reason you know how to... The only reason you know how to use a camera as stick pictures of me and like sometimes yourself. But like if you... No. New year, new goals.

And in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt. And I'm Joel. We are from the how to money podcast. And every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, We're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen.

Listen to How to Money on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to be overwhelmed?

join your cult. NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neurilingualistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind Games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP, might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

As we head into 2026, it's safe to say that 2025 was a year like no other. So much news, so much disruption. And yes, so much division. That's why we're wrapping up this season of next quarter. question with a look back at everything that's happened. Things are coming at us with such a velocity. We thought it was important to take a moment, connect the dots, and explore what it all means. We're summing up the first year of Trump's second term with David Graham on Project 2025 and how many of the goals have been implemented. Richard Haas on foreign policy and the changing

world order, Jessica Valenti on reproductive rights and the terrifying consequences of abortion ban. Tina Brown on the year's scandals here and across the pond. The president has upended everything from pardons to the press, so we're covering it all. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea. In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune. It was hard to wrap your head around.

It was nature and trees and praying and drugs. So no, I am not your guru. And back then, I lied to my parents. I lied to police. I lied to everybody. There were years right where I could not say your name. I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California, interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists,

whomever I can to try to find out what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of a bitch to come around here in my wife. Boom, boom, this is The Red Weather. Listen to the red weather starting on January 28th at the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This show contains information subject to, but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man.

This is your boy Nav Green from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs are here. But guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs. They're cheese.

Oh, it's a rap. It's time to rebuild. Who's your MVP right now then? Drake May up there, Josh Allen up there still. Oh, my boy, Matthew Stafford. Where did he have both of next? He ain't too far behind What Matthew Stafford is doing

Statistically, bro, it's crazy Bro, you know I ain't no Josh Allen fan But Matthew Staff forgot Better weapon Caleb Williams Hey, he should be in that conversation In what conversation? He should be in it

Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network On the Iheart Radio app Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcast Can I ask you a question? Yeah Was he ever like Let's make content?

like let's do yeah so it was like kind of pushing it because i think it's no secret to everyone who's listening that like when you leave the show and you're on tic-tok so making content it does do well yeah so did that seem like something he was trying to push not really with us together um as much like it is his profession now so like he kind of needs to be like that's like how he makes money right so the more content he makes the more it goes out but like i do very different content that on him. Like, I'm, like, very authentic in the moment. Like, I make, like, silly things. And it feels forced to, I'm, like, so strange in it. So, like, I think we just have different ideas of what that looks like. But when we first came off the show, like, he took it so seriously. Like,

we could not be seen in public in any capacity whatsoever. I another Sam being, like, you have to be careful. Yeah. But it felt just like. A little bit more intense. I felt way more intense. He knows better than me because I had two weeks. Couldn't go in a gas station together. Like he felt like everybody knew who he was. He was like I dated the most like I had this most public relationship. Everybody knows who I am. Like I'm going to get recognized everywhere.

Like somebody was following. I mean you guys together though probably would get recognized. Yeah, but it was in like I'm sure if we were out in crazy public spaces. Yeah, sure. But it was just like a constant thing and it felt like I was just like how am I going to experience this relationship. Right. Yeah. So it was just like.

a lot of things I felt like super intense that was like really just connecting in a way for us. But I was just like, dude, nobody cares. Has he had a public relationship since Claire? I mean, I think so. Okay. Yeah, I guess his ex. But like he felt as if like, yeah, he stands out in a room. Like I'm not going to disagree with that.

But like we're okay. We also like are in a real relationship too. So we have to like feel that way in order to like come let the relationship grow. So we were trying our best to see each other in like the moments that we had. And like he had a lot of work obligations on the weekends and stuff like that. No, he said that it was way too public if we went to New York. And because he had that. I don't know.

I guess. I mean, it's definitely less than New York. Is it though like truly? I don't know. Guys, I never cared. But he would come stay with me like a few times like for like a week or so because like he had the capacity to do that and like I would work. So he would just like stay at my house and everything.

So, like, we would see each other for extended periods of time. And then we kind of went on some trips as much as we could, like, secretly. But anyways, yeah, I just felt like we still needed so much more to grow in the relationship. And I started to see how the other couples are moving as well. And I just was like, okay, well, you know, especially, like, right before it was airing, I was like, okay, it's in a couple months. Like, what's our plan? Like, are we going to, are you going to make your way here? Like, how are we going to move this together?

and kind of always just got really vague responses, one being like, well, that's always the goal. And I was like, okay, but like, how? Like, give me a full plan. I could never get a full answer. And then he was like, let's table us like for now and then said that, you know, I guess like other couples in the space like didn't, you know, come together until I don't know when like maybe a year later or something. And at the time, I was like, oh, I guess maybe I'm moving too fast or whatever. But then like as things started to settle, I was like, no, actually, I don't really care what. other couples do like that's what i want that's how i want to grow a relationship i thought you were in a

space of life where like you could because that's what we talked about um but it felt like if he did then he was going to like hold resentment towards me because like san diego is just like apparently to him not anywhere that he could grow his career so and he took did he tell you that yeah yeah but um so it just felt like okay i don't know i never really got full answers like always i don't really know what the true reason was i don't really know what his intent always was, but that was like kind of before it aired. And then, you know, do you mind me asking before you go on, like what you guys specifically, I guess when he came to San Diego and visited you, like, how did you feel like either one of you, like, facilitated like the growth in your

relationship? Because I know like, like, Rachel was saying like happy couple times or just like the time that you guys have in hiding is like, at least it was for me. I thought super important. It's super important. Right. Because like that's like how you, like, you were building up to this, You know, you kind of have this momentum coming off the show. But it's like, those are the crucial building stages of like, okay, when this is public, this is how now we're going to like continue off of this foundation that we've already laid and like worked together on while we've been secluded, which I think is the most like sacred, intimate space to do so. And like it's such a like we'll never get that time back because once it's public, it's public.

So it's like, let's enjoy it while we can. So something I did, I think I gave you the book too. Yeah, yeah. One of this book I was reading, is it one, Pablo? Is that awesome? Yeah. Yeah. It's just like I got us both the book and it was all different parts of like yourself

and the relationship. So when we did start to face like hard moments, we had like a reference thing and we were supposed to do it together and I was kind of like always pushing like hard conversations. Hearing this coming from Kat, like I'm so proud of you. Listen, I don't know. The book is emotional intelligence. Like I'm like I'm so proud.

You've come so far. I'm so sorry. I'm so good. Thank God for modern medicine. I know. Well, honestly, I think not being in school. Like I finished MP school like two years ago. And congratulations.

Thanks. I've been a nurse practitioner officially for two years. And I felt like just that light, that lift of like, okay, now I can like focus and I'm not in like this crazy like survival mode all the time. And then moving to a new city at the same time and like reexperiencing like a new season of life allows you to really like have the time. But I tried really hard to just kind of like keep us moving in a way that felt close. I'm never afraid of hard conversations. I will initiate them right away and talk them through. as like help like in every healthy way that I can at the time um sometimes it was met with you know

similar energies sometimes it wasn't you know we are offered like the therapy and I tried that with him but honestly like it was fine um it wasn't like super like hard really it just felt like it was getting stagnant did you start to feel like maybe you were more in it than him in those happy couple I mean I always feel that way and uh i guess i guess i i had more not really like into it but i had more like drive to grow together and yeah apart and what i was gathering i guess in the sense of like how he views relationships is more of like an exchange of life like partnership almost and not companionship so he would like label companion like i was like well you want like a companion i was like yeah of course

i do like that's like that's a same thing It's like, I want to be silly. I want to date my best friend. I want to be like, like, I want to like just be our like most authentic and real selves. And like I, that's, I know I want to date my best friend and I didn't know if we were like getting there. But, you know, when your work is stressful, that can cause you to be a little disconnected with yourself, which I think affected him a little bit. So he was in a space of like, I guess a busy season. It's just I don't really know what was true.

Like the problem is is like after everything is done. now I look back to those moments when we had hard times and the responses that I got and they could very well be not true and they could very well be like what he thought I needed to hear at the moment. So it's hard for me to speak up, but that's the experience I lived then. But I don't really know what the underlying meaning or feeling is because I don't really know like who like what lives on the inside if that makes sense. Do you feel like he was like playing apart just because Paradise was about to air? I think he plays apart.

I think he definitely plays parts in everyday life. Like that's how he... That's like who he is. Or that's what he gives to the world. At least that's how I've experienced it. I think that my experience. Yeah. You still don't really know who he is.

Yeah, I guess. New year, new goals. And in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt. And I'm Joel. We are from the How to Money podcast. And every week we help you to spend smarter, save more and make sense of what's going on out there.

If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to How to Money on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you get control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness. Mind games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor.

who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP, might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As we head into 26, it's safe to say that 2025 was a year like no other. So much news, so much disruption. and yes, so much division.

That's why we're wrapping up this season of next question with a look back at everything that's happened. Things are coming at us with such a velocity. We thought it was important to take a moment, connect the dots, and explore what it all means. We're summing up the first year of Trump's second term with David Graham on Project 2025 and how many of the goals have been implemented.

Richard Haas on foreign policy and the changing world order, Jessica Valenti on reproductive rights and the terrifying consequences of abortion bans. Tina Brown on the year's scandals here and across the pond. The president has upended everything from pardons to the press, so we're covering it all. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea. In 1995, my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune.

It was hard to wrap your head around. It was nature and trees and praying and drugs. So no, I am not your guru. And back then, I lied to my parents. I lied to police. I lied to everybody. There were years right where I could not say your name. I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California,

to interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can, to try to find out what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of a bitch to come around her in my wife. Boom, boom. This is The Red Weather.

Listen to the Red Weather, starting on January 28th at the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcasts, Award is you can decide who takes home the 2026 IHard Podcast Awards podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com.

Where was the first crack that you really started to notice that this wasn't going to work? Yeah, that's a good one. Honestly, probably while it was airing, there was moments. This is the first time that I've ever, like, I felt like so much that what you saw was so true to form. So I'm watching situations that I thought I understood or I was, like, thought that that was the situation. Like what? Like the Alicia and Jonathan. and that one.

Well, first it was the, I saw our interaction, right? When you're having, like, our first fight on Paradise. So when you're in those moments, it's kind of hard to remember. But I was kind of experienced similar communication in real life, which I brought up to him. And then it became this whole thing. So I kind of let that die down. It was whatever. But I noticed that he was not honest with me.

So in Paradise, I was told that, like, when I first was told that by Jonathan about how Dale said that, he wanted to just go on a date, I guess, to like get me worked up, which is my worst fear because I get worked up really easily. And we heard him say it. Right, right, right. So when I heard that from Jonathan, I was like, oh, this is, I don't do games. Like, you can literally go play with someone else. And that became a big thing, but he told me that that came out of Sean's mouth, like verbatim. He said, Jonathan was not even in the room that they were talking about it before Birds of Paradise, all this stuff. And I'm like, Sean would say that because he's always trying to like mess with me whatever so i'm like oh maybe jonathan misunderstood whatever moved on

it was not until like i think the day or two before it aired we were like driving back from some event we were doing in l.a like with bachelor and he mentioned that jonathan or wait what did he mentioned he mentioned that it was actually said outside of the room and then it did come from him but so he confessed but he said that jonathan still was not said to him that it was said in general. Like he stood on that. And I'm like, wait, so that did come out of your mouth? Like, what do you mean? And he was like, like, yeah, like, brushing it off. I didn't really get any details. I was just like, what? But I get it. Like, you're in these places. Like, maybe it's hard to remember things, whatever. Then I actually watched him say it to Jonathan's face. And I'm like,

you don't mix that up. Like, that happened. And at the same time, I'm seeing how he was with Alicia, which none of that. I didn't even know Alicia didn't like me. I didn't know anything. I didn't know any of that. So I'm like, it's bringing back a lot of like old trauma from two years ago where I saw people's like feelings about me without knowing. And it was just really, really, that was like one of the hardest episodes to watch. And I really needed him to just like reassure me and like we talk it through. Because I could be really understanding and forgiving. Like I don't like hold grudges. I wish I did. But like I can't. Like it's just like, but I can understand people make mistakes and you have low character moments, especially in these environments, right? But it was completely like deflected.

he, I guess, was going through something else and, like, could not talk to me. And, like, I felt like, every time I tried to bring up something that I was experiencing watching the show, he was like, well, we already moved past that. Like, why are we talking about that right now? Well, I moved past something completely different. And, like, I don't want this to reflect, like, what's going to happen. And, like, let's just, like, have a conversation. And it just kept getting, like, minimized, in my opinion, minimized and just, like, not, not any accountability or reflection of his own motions. That's when we tried to do the therapy. But then I said, I mean, there is no compassion either.

Like, hello. I know. Well, I guess I was supposed to have compassion for him for whatever it was happening instead. Well, it's both parties. Yeah, you can have compassion and rightfully so. Like, you're expressing something that's difficult where you need. Like, that is a first step. It's like you were expressing these emotions and what you're going through to him.

Now it's up to him for him to digest that and then give you back in turn what you need. So zero compassion. Right. And for me, that all comes down to communication. So we saw that our communication did not align very well. and I noticed every time that we tried to bring, like, it felt like he was still in that space where he felt under attack, which is okay. Like, I've lived that. I like the audience.

By everybody. No, just like, so anytime I'd bring up something, it was like, let me prove to you why I'm not wrong in what you're feeling. Not let me understand your feelings more. Not let me understand myself more, which is a maturity thing. Like, I think that that just takes time. But then it was, I've studied stress management and I know all these. these things about like communication. I've done all this stuff. And so like I don't want, don't bother me with this. Like I'm 36 years old like blah blah blah. I'm like, okay. That's insane.

Yeah. Like congrats. But like. Okay, you study stretch tonight. Let's see you. Yeah. Yeah. Show me. Right. So. Show me. What's what's really going on. Show me. Yeah. It was really weird. And then, you know, he did stuff on weekends that like, I guess required a lot of his attention. So I felt just like I didn't even have a boyfriend at some point. Like I was like, am I really sure right now? Like I don't really feel like loved or like taken care of in the way I thought I was going to so those were just like my experience like not to say that he couldn't like that might be what's okay for someone else but like I know what I need a lot more than what I was receiving and it just felt like I either have to accept his lifestyle in his life or like move on it didn't feel like it was we were building trying to build together

a relationship together and so that kind of just like was always in the back of my head and then he met my family and everything was fine there actually and then it was yeah he was like around the week of the reunion and he's staying with me at my house and I think maybe he was stressed with work or something. I don't know. I just kept feeling like I was in the same room with him and like I was alone. And I feel like he's been stressed with work for months now. I mean, that's what he said.

It's always, it's always that. Yeah. So what do I know? No, that's so valid. Yeah, exactly. Because it sounds like Kat was more than clear about what she wanted before this even happen. Every single week, four to five times a week, seeing multiple patients working 10-hour days.

Okay. Like I have just as much on my brain and then trying to manage and live my life and friends and family and social and a cat. So like I have just we all have responsibilities. It's either do you want to fit your partner in your life or you don't. And sometimes like people have different priorities and how that balance looks for them. And I started to notice like maybe our balance of what we want in a relationship is off. Like and that's okay. I don't try to make people into what I want anymore.

I used to do that. And I'm like, you're either it or you're not because like I don't care. Like I would much rather be alone than being a relationship and feel alone. And so that started to be what I was experiencing. And then, yeah, it was just not very good, healthy communication. I didn't really feel like I was like very seen or anything, whatever things would be discussed. And I also felt like I was the only one like initiating like hard conversations in terms of maybe like every time I would initiate them. I still never knew where we got like.

it was talking in like actual circles. I was like the beginning of that sentence did not have anything to do at the end. Like let's stay on track here. And I started to lose a lot of patience with that because that's just like not how I work. And then we went, we became public and everything. And what I loved was like, and I was like really stressed about how everything was going down with Alicia and Sean and my ex and everything. And like I was really focused on like that because it was bringing back a lot of trauma from before. So I was like I, it was hard for me to balance everything together. So he was really supportive with that, which I appreciated. Looking back, I'm like, was he just supportive because it made him look better?

Or like, was he actually, did he really care? Because, like, in the reunion, I felt like every, I had things to say and I was going to stand for myself. And he was so specific about, like, staying composed. He kept saying composure is like such a thing. And I was like, what does that? Like he didn't want to talk? You can, if you watch that reunion, that man was like, trying like was trying so hard to make me quiet like i feel like you guys were like a unified like

that's that's an optic thing that's 100 per you don't think so what oh the fact that he'm saying him saying suggesting to you to stay composed that's an optic thing oh yeah like it's for his image at this point it's like you guys she should know one who he's dating he knows so he knows this personality that you know whether or not you have something to saying you're passionate about it or whatever he already knows that so to suggest oh, please stay composed in this moment is like, I don't want to hear any like thing from the audience. I want us to be perceived as, you know, this couple. Like that and.

And also, no, no. I've had so many moments up into that point where I've proven my composure, which then I started to feel like, oh, I have to like prove that to him. And that's extremely triggering for me, like living in a space where you're trying to prove this version of yourself to your partner when like, it's like you could just see me for who I am, you know, I shouldn't have to prove that. And I think I proved it very well once again. Then the show was done and I was able to actually live in this relationship and experience this

relationship, I think, fully and completely. And now there's no excuse about not being able to see in public. Now there's none of that. So I still felt like off and we went on this weekend trip to what I thought was going to be more about like us. And I wanted to go to New York Fashion Week, but I guess he had this big thing that he wanted us to do in Vegas with the boxing. And it ended up being me in like a house with a bunch of guys.

like I was the only girl and like I've never even see me put on a boxing glove in your life. Like I don't like, what is that? I was like what I go the day before is when I learned that we were going to be this influencer house that I was like he's like I was like I was like I was like I was like he didn't even get a hotel like nothing to separate you. This actually was for him. It was his paid opportunity. I didn't get paid but he made him feel like oh this is like this is way cooler like everybody's going blah blah. But at first I said yes because I thought we were going to be like in a hotel and doing all these things. God, I don't even know.

Maybe he created fake messages like because he, I don't know. So were you going into this knowing it was a job for him? Like he had worked there. Not really. No. Or he presented it to you as this is something we're going to do together. Like just a fun weekend. Fun weekend.

But like it's obviously like we're bunched with people that like are in the same space. But like I learned that I was going to be staying in a house having to participate in workouts, like actual like boxing workouts. This is my name. night. No, I was like, wait, what is this schedule? I'm like, I'm not going. Like, we don't have to be. Like, what is this Rocky? Like, you're getting up before the track of dawn? He's like, you don't have to do it.

Like, blah, blah, blah. I was like, wait, what is going on? I'm like, what? And so, yeah, it was just like so not anything me. So, right? So you're bringing me into an environment. Like, I love to try anything. Sure. Whatever. Like, I'll be cool. But, like, you're still bringing me into an environment that's all new for me. I know no one.

And then, once again, I felt completely alone. Kat, you know what the crazy thing is? I remember seeing like all the coverage of this at the time and it seemed like you guys were like such a happy couple. Yeah, no. That's like the internet for you. So was that him that's like I want to present this to the public even though you were not having a good time? We had our biggest fight there. Okay.

So obviously this conversation is far from over. So tomorrow we are going to do a part two and dive into the actual breakup. Okay. And we are so excited. So Bachelor Nation, this is Bachelor Happy Hour. make sure that you are tuned in, subscribing, and don't forget to listen. See you guys soon. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from How to Money. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over

the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence, listen to How to Money on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you can control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you only listen to one thing to make sense of the news this year, make it this. The final episode of this season of Next Question pulls together the most important conversations of the year. You'll hear David Graham on Project 2025, Liz Oyer on the plethora of presidential pardons, Tina Brown on the year's biggest scandals here at home and across the pond, plus much, much more. It's a crash course in the last 12 months, how we made it through the year, and a look at what might be coming in 26. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or Word. wherever you get your podcasts.

This show contains information subject to, but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This is your boy, Nav Green, from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs are here.

But guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs. The Chief. It's time to rebuild.

Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast. network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeart Podcast Awards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy,

App. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.