Bachelor Happy Hour - Fantasy Suite Week with Chris Harrison

Episode Date: February 25, 2020

Bachelor royalty is in the studio today! Chris Harrison talks to Rachel and Becca about Peter’s rocky season, his feelings on the remaining three women, and how Peter is doing right now. And, Chris shares the real reason the women were living together during Fantasy Suite week.Plus, Chris reveals his most dramatic moment in Bachelor history.Be sure to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode!See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use unless you think there's a good outcome. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denials easier.

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We continue to say to them, you were elected to defend your constituents. And there's life after Congress. Make sure to listen to this episode of Spolitan. on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just like great shoes, great books take you places, through unforgettable love stories

and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of, like, butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. The new podcast from Hello Sunshine and IHeart Podcasts,

where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Books is the official audio book and ebook home for Reese's Book Club. Visit apple.co-forward slash Reese Apple Books to find out more. what's up everybody happy tuesday another episode of bachelor happy out can i before we get into everything i just want to set the mood here i don't want to be here i'm going to try to be as professional as possible

because i have bachelor nation royalty sitting across from me in the room i'm going to try to put on my good hat becca i know you share the same frustrations with me i just want to say that off the top you know how we like to name every episode. I feel like I want to name this episode. Am I missing something? Question mark. I was going to name it W-T-S, exclamation mark. That works as well. Oh, no. I just say, it's been crazy. We keep saying it gets crazier and crazier. And this episode, finally, I was like, I need to take a moment away from the screen. I, well, we'll get into this because I want to get straight to the podcast because I was about to say, I have so many notes. And I think I was just venting my frustration out in my notes this week, but we're going to talk about it. I'm so glad to have you

here. I know you're on the road. We've been following along everything that you're doing with Ben and Batchel Live on stage. I know you have your family there, minnow's there, Gareth's there with you right now. How's everything going? Yes. It's been so much fun. It has been a much crazier adventure than I could ever imagine, but it's been great. So we are currently on the tour bus calling in, we are driving through Salt Lake City as we speak. But Minow has already claimed the title as the official diva of the tour bus. Of course. There it's been, you know, hog into bed each night, but it's been very fun.

Good. I'm glad. I can't wait to join you whenever that may be. But, Becca, I know we have to get to it because we don't get to do this every day. It is not every day that we get to have. a legend on our podcast. I don't know who we are or what we did right

to deserve to have the one and only Mr. Chris Harrison also known as our fairy godfather on the podcast. Chris, thank you for joining us.

Ladies, thanks for having me. I have to say, first and foremost, your effing ring is huge. I'm just, we're saying,

I'm sitting across some rates right now. I know you guys can't see this. Your ring is insane. Thank you. Hold that up again. I don't know if I've ever seen the wedding ring. If you ask, I definitely will. Lord. Thank you, Chris. That is massive. Becca, you better get at least that. Becker shines as well. And by the way, good to be here. And Becca, I know you're on the road. Congrats to you and Ben. I know you guys are crushing it out there. I'm hearing good things. And Rachel says she wants to join you guys for a month or so. A month.

She can't wait. Thanks, Chris Harrison for joining us. But we do, I know we have a lot to talk about with this episode. So I don't even know where we start, though. I want to pick your brain so badly. Let's go. That's why I'm here. I mean, you were there in the heat of it.

If we're frustrated as viewers watching this, I can only imagine what it was like to record. You were there for a week. We only get two hours of this. We were there, yeah, two weeks in Australia going through this whole thing. And it was an interesting season and journey. with, you know, speaking to two women who I have gone through this with, you know, there's nothing to compare it. And I know I often say like, look, I can't compare seasons, you know, Rachel season to Becca season to whoever is totally different. But this season was so different on so many levels going through

it with Peter. Interesting, he's an interesting guy and he's a good man. But, you know, we'll get into these relationships. And I think that one of the reasons I love the show is we've all had certain relationships like this and it was just interesting to watch peter go through it which relationship are you referring to chris all of them because they all really stand for something very different they really do bats nation i'm trying to get as much as i can out of course i'm just by the way this lid is going to pop off this steam pot and rachel's going to go off and i am here for it i'm brewing i'm here for i see it i know the look in her eye that's one thing i do remember is that look in her as things were about to go off, and this kettle is about to blow.

Well, I'm just confused. If I had a subtitle to this episode, it would be, can Peter just catch a break? I mean, can the man get one day off? It seems every week he's going through something, and just when we think, all right, it's fantasy sweets. Here we are. He's down in his final three. He's confident in his decision. He can explore these relationships to another level, because this really, really is an important week.

forget what fantasy sweets mean to everyone else. This is the opportunity for you to have that alone time that you so desperately need at this point in the journey so you can make decisions that you need to move on. And the one person who seems to be the most level-headed and normal is cracking. So, Becca, let's just pick up where we left off at the end of last week.

So we see Madison pull Peter aside. She has this talk with him. Now, I was a bit surprised at what she said in that talk. What did you think, Becca? So my issue, and I'm glad that she, I think, I've been waiting for this to come up because obviously, and Rachel, you and I had touched based on this a few weeks ago. Like, we knew that Madison was saving herself. We knew that this was a conversation that was about to go down.

Was the timing the best? Probably not. But my thing watching her conversation with theater is there wasn't. really, like, I didn't know where she was going with it. She basically said, you know, I'm saving myself, like, what it seems like was an ultimatum, but there wasn't any hard, set, fast conclusion from it. It was just kind of like, well, this is how I feel, do what you want, and it just kind of goes left open.

Like, okay, where is he supposed to go from here? How is he supposed to take this? Like, of course, there's three of you left and he's having strong feelings for. I was just left wanting more, and if this is such a big deal for her, I was, wanted her to, like, to rest state what she was hoping for. But did I miss something? She didn't say in that conversation

that she was saving herself, and I was screaming. It's so unfair. I'm going to get to it when we get to this part about Madison in Fantasy Sweet Weeks, but she's talking about her faith. She's talking all around the subject, but she's not being direct as to

what's so important with her. So how can Peter make a fully educated decision when you're holding on to something that's so vital to this week. So she tells him, she keeps saying, but I'm not giving you an ultimatum. You know my heart. And then literally defined an ultimatum. Thank you, Chris. Like, you are everything you are saying is an ultimatum. She said several times, this is not an ultimatum, but then literally defined in every word she said an ultimatum. And she did that throughout, you know, the entire episode, their date and everything. But if you do this, then this. That is an ultimatum, Maddie. And for anybody else who's confused on the definition of an ultimatum, cause and effect. You do this, this will happen. It is so nice to have conversations with level-headed, logical people. And to Madison's credit, or to her defense or whatever, I think she knew what she wanted to say at the airport after that rose ceremony. And maybe she just didn't know how to say it. She couldn't articulate. It reminded me of Victoria.

trying to have the conversation on the doorstep after the hometown date of they're not saying words and they're not putting those words together into sentences. And those sentences are definitely not conveying any thoughts. And that is difficult to follow, especially when you're trying to make big life choices. And so Madison, I knew where she was trying to go, but man, she couldn't get there. And Peter didn't know where she was trying to go. And I think that's what's so hard. And I'll pose this question to both you and Chris Becca.

why do you think it was so I have my theory but why do you think it's so difficult for Madison to say this because this is who she is she has defined herself as you know being faith-based she's a Christian

these are her morals and her values and she was very matter of fact when she had that conversation with Peter on their second date week seven why is it so hard for her to say but I'm also saving myself for marriage

why can't she make that declarative statement. I don't understand it. I'm looking for help. I'll just say this for her, and this is a conversation I really want to have with her at some point. Obviously, we don't know how this ends, and maybe it's with her and Peter,

maybe it's just with her. However, this turns out, I want to have a conversation because she has a difficult time, as you said, articulating a very strong belief. And so there is a, not a hypocrisy, but just, I don't know, know, a divide there because hypocrisy has such a negative connotation. I want to put a negative connotation on this. Because I respect her thoughts. I respect her feelings. And it's just being able

to express something that's so strong in your heart and in your soul. I don't know why she has trouble. And she really won't make that statement that you're talking about of, hey, this is where I am in my life and my faith. If anyone is going to take this journey with me, you've got to be on this same walk, period. Look, yes, that's an ultimatum, but by the way, I don't have a problem with ultimatums. If that is where you are, then that's fine. And if this relationship doesn't go along with those standards, then we go our separate ways. It's the fact that they can't have that conversation is what frustrates, I think, everybody. And I think it's incumbent upon her to figure out how to have those conversations at some point in her life and truly understand what she's asking

and what she's saying. Becca? Right. And I think, so I grew up Catholic. So I feel like I, and I could be totally out of face. I don't want to put words in Madison's mouth or her family. But growing up as a Catholic, it's kind of like the, you just don't talk about it. There are certain words that it's like you don't want to say sex.

You don't want to say virgin. And again, I don't know what her faith is if she is Catholic or not. but I know a lot of it gets brushed under the rug growing up. And I think that could have something to do with it. It's like we saw her sit down with her mom at hometowns and her mom kind of skirted around the fact of her face too and that she did save herself. But those words aren't being used.

Those declarative statements aren't being used. And I don't know if that has a lot to do with her faith. If it's just something you don't talk about with other people because it is so sacred. But we've seen it not only not with Madison, but a lot of the girls start this season, they don't know how to have these deep conversations with that depth, with certain words, with certain verbiage,

with these declarative statements, they kind of skirt around the facts with their conversations with Peter. And I think he finally see it because with him, throughout the entire episode with Peter and Madison, he keeps saying, just so I can be clear, just so I can be clear. I need to be clear here. He uses that phrase so many times throughout this because he can't quite get to the bottom of what exact.

say that she wants and what she's saying. This is what bothers me. We're just going to get into it. This is what bothers me about her not saying it. One, it doesn't give Peter the full information that he needs to make, to have the right mindset to go into this week. I don't understand why she's holding back. What are you so fearful of?

And I think you were saying, you don't want to say, Chris, that she's being a hypocrite because it is a strong word. So I think it's a contradiction. Yeah. You sit here on week seven and you say, this is who you are, but then you don't tell him all of who you are. Right. So it's like, what are you so fearful of? And I guess it's like if this is, these are your morals, this is your value, it's beautiful that you have made these commitments and this is what you live by. And I love that you hold yourself to that standard and you believe in it.

I think that's beautiful. I just think that if this is who you are, then you wear it proud and you wear it like a badge. and you wear it because you want to attract a certain type of man because that is what you want for yourself and I almost feel like she's trying to turn Peter into a man that she wants that he's not and Becca

you and I talked about this how a lot of times as women we think we can change you oh we can I can make excuses for him I can make him better and I just think if you're not telling him and you're holding back from it one I think it's selfish because it's not fair to him it's not fair to the other women

it's not fair that you've come this far in the journey and you're holding this information back. So why are you holding it back? I am going to say what other people are probably too afraid to say. If I'm putting on my logical hat and I think about this, why are you holding it back? Because we all know you want a Christian man. There are so many ways to meet a Christian. Church, mission trip, through mutual friends. You know one way to not really meet them? The Bachelor. Let's just be honest. The Bachelor isn't a show that stands on Christian values. It's not rooted in the Bible and biblical beliefs.

So why are you coming on this show, knowing how this show works? We all know that you get to this point in Fantasy Sweet Week. So to be logical. Well, at the very least, you know that he was with Hannah many times over. I mean, that was a pretty, so you at least know this guy is not that. And the thing is, he's actually a faithful person. He is a man of faith in his own way. Yeah.

But not in your way. And you knew that coming in. This is Peter. Sex and a Windmill, Peter. Right. Four times in a windmill, Peter. You knew this. This isn't Sean Lowe or Ben Higgins.

Like, he has been sexualized coming on to this season. Right. Yet you decided to come on. So for me, the logical thing is, one, you came on because you just wanted to be a part of this experience. Two, you came on this show because you wanted the platform that it was going to give you. Had you told him earlier that you were saving yourself for marriage, maybe you were fearful that he would send you home and you wouldn't make it as far as you did.

You wouldn't be in Australia. You wouldn't have... the number of followers that you have, or three, you want to be the Bachelorette. You got to a point where you made it far enough to be in consideration. That is the only logical thing I can think of because I don't understand why you haven't shared this information. Because you're definitely not setting yourself up or Peter up to succeed. You set him up to fail.

Yeah. And you set the relationship up to fail. Yeah. And you wait to tell him this information and then you hold it against him. I am floored. We don't know if she leaves, if she stays, but if she leaves, it is so, I'll say it, hypocritical, a contradiction to hold that against him when you withheld this information from him, knowing what this show is and knowing who Peter is. Say what you will about Luke P. last year. At least he was who he was from day one.

Yep. And, you know, then it was up to Hannah to decide, is he misogynistic? Is he all those things that, you know, people realized later? But, hey, he was like that from day one. Right. He didn't change. Right. And I will say this about Luke P.

And I said it to him, I don't have a problem with you. I don't have a problem with your faith or any, you know, I know a lot of people were jumping on the bandwagon of, well, he was, you know, Hannah's sex positive and go girl and all this. Well, is it the same? Right. Is Peter going to be treated the same? And is Madison going to be villainized the same way Luke P. was? Yeah. It's not, it's not completely dissimilar.

No, I was going to ask both of you this question. Becca, yeah, do you think that we're already starting to see it? If you read it a little bit of social media, there is a bit of a double standard. What do you think about that, Becca? Oh, totally. And watching this episode go down, that's the first thought I had when Madison started to talk to him. I'm like, is she going to get an edit like Luke P or are people going to rally behind her? Because that doesn't make sense.

Like, basically they're saying the same things. Maybe Luke P approached her in a different way. that seemed more harsh. But, like, in reality, these are very similar situations. And so if you're going to villainize Luke for how he handled it with Hannah,

it's like, Madison's basically doing the same thing. Maybe she's just approaching it a little bit nice so it's hiptoeing her on the fact, but, you know, basically they both said, we don't want to go in the Institute with you if you sucks with other people.

So where is society right now? Right. Will a woman, very sweet, diminutive woman from Alabama, get a much wider birth and a much bigger grace area than this guy. Mm-hmm. It is easy to beat on a guy, especially right now. Will she get the same treatment?

And that's going to be very interesting. That's why I was going to ask, you know, two women who have been through this before, how you think this is going to go down. And if actually it might even be reverse and Peter's going to be the bad guy. Mm-hmm. I think that what people have to do is separated. I think you have to say, you know, Luke was a villain the whole season. Madison has been the complete opposite from that.

But I think what were both Madison and Luke P went wrong is their timing and delivery of this whole situation. And that's what you have to look at. That's what's the selfish act. That's what's judgmental. And that's what's not fair. Madison was wrong, in my opinion, to wait till this point to tell him something that she's known from day one. When as soon as you felt those feelings going in week four or five, hometowns, plenty of time to have those conversations.

The moment he said, I'm falling in love with you. Right. It's just something you need to know. Something you need to know. And Luke P waited until this point to express his thoughts as well. That is why they're similar. That's all, you know, when people are like, oh, Luke P's a villain, how dare you compare? Because people are already saying, how dare you compare Madison to Luke P.

I think that's what you have to look at, how they deliver this information. the things that Luke P said and did early on, there were some misogynistic moves and I'm just taking this one small snapshot towards the end where they both really were just relying and falling back on their beliefs and in their faith. And that was the decision. I don't have a problem with either one, by the way, if that is your decision. But it's, like you said, timing, when and where you had that conversation. You're setting these people up that you truly care about. You say you're setting them up for failure. There's no way Peter could not fail with that ultimatum. Yeah, as a man, Chris, as a man, the male opinion, what, how do you take that

information? Like, you're, you put yourself in as best as you can in Peter's situation. You do what he did. You take the moral high road. You can only fall on yourself getting out of the way of that situation. You know, you're, he did right. I respect your decision. I respect everything you're saying. And then just be completely honest with her, which he did. I mean, that's all you can do. I was so proud of him. Because you're just the bad guy. You are the bad guy. And every guy knows that you are in the wrong.

When you walk into a situation, you are in the wrong. Period. It doesn't matter what the situation is. Listen up, man. It's just the way it is, especially in this day and age. And you know you're under the microscope. And so you're going to be mansplaining. You're going to be sexually oppressing her, whatever it is.

You are the bad guy. Yeah. Know that. Yeah. And not enough guys go into conversations knowing that you are the A-hole. Yeah, but Peter did. Even if you have the moral high ground, you're wrong. So Peter realized that and really respected and was like, but he did a good job of explaining, hey, yeah, I was intimate.

And I hate that now I'm outing. And by the way, now he has to out. He didn't get in specifics. But the girls are now being out of it. So now he's doing a disservice to these women for a very private. So there was, it's really, again, one of the things I love about this show is the social dynamic and the things that this brings up. The talk and the debates we're going to be having out of this are fascinating. Now, it's like more and more it's happening.

Each season there is some type of aspect like this, that you're saying the social aspect that we're discussing. And it brings on a bigger conversation. I just, I was proud of Peter and Becca, I want to know your take on this too. I was so proud of him for being honest when it was hard for even saying to her, you know what, I'm glad that's you and I respect that. And I love that you've made that commitment. but that's not me.

I said, go ahead, Peter. Heads up three weeks ago. It would have been great. But he didn't even say that. He just wore it. He owned it. And he's gutted. Obviously, this is a girl he really cares about.

She wouldn't have made it this far. And to have the rug pulled out from under you like that is, it's, do you guys know? It's devastating. I have a question. And this is what I was thinking the entire time. Well, first, let me start out by saying, I would hate to abandon these girls this week because I have never seen three of the girls after hometown be forced to live with one another again, especially during fantasy three weeks. That's, that is rough. Good point, Becca. I was watching this. And, you know,

I'm not the biggest fan of some of these girls. That's no surprise. But at some point, they also need to be protected. This week is hard enough knowing that the person you are dating and falling in love with is spending the night with other women. And to see them come home in the mornings and to have to talk about it is brutal and so I really felt bad for these girls this time but I'm watching this week and right away I knew I was like Madison

is going to get the last date there's no surprise there they're going to bring these other girls out with him they're going to bring them home and they're going to dangle these girls in their conversations and what happened in front of medicine but I would love to know what would have happened if it was reversed what if Madison

first had that one-on-one night with him what would have happened if she would went in and still said, you know, I want to send this uninterrupted alone time with you, get to know you, I'm sure obviously they would not have been up together, but she would have still just spent the time with him. What would have happened then if she went back to the

hotel and these other two girls had had to proceed on their dates with him? How would this have ended? The same. It would have ended the same. Although it probably would have happened a week later, even worse. Yeah. She was spiraling out of control from the beginning.

But Chris, I literally wrote this down in my notes. Chris, why are they all living together? Well, good question. Other than the obvious answer. Well, you two have been through this, so you actually have the perspective. There are times when no matter how great you are and you both were great, bachelorette, but you can't get out of your own way. And that's part of why you're single. And, you know, Peter, for example, has trouble making decisions. I don't know if you guys have noticed that. We have talked about it quite a bit. He is the king of kicking the can down the road. heaven forbid you make a decision.

But so this, you know, there are things that we do as producers that will force you into this uncomfortable zone and force you into making a decision. Sometimes we do it for your behalf. Sometimes we do it for the bachelor, the guys or the girls. And this situation was pretty extraordinary because Peter had kicked the can down the road. But this time also Madison had. And so this was to force a situation that had to happen. And it had to happen this week. Because if we get to Proposal Week, then this guy is really screwed and there's no chance this works.

We got to figure this out. And there's really only one way to do it. And so, yeah, it was tough love and it was really awkward. And again, as you know in the history of the show, I don't know if we've ever done this. But we decided to do it this week because these are conversations that needed to be had. And it was because of, I think, the double standard and the things that Peter was going to deal with, we kind of needed the women's perspective on this. We needed Madison to face Victoria and Hannah Ann and have them express their emotions on this. Because, again, it's just this guy in his perspective.

And I don't know if that's the greatest thing right now. And so I thought it was interesting in, look, revisionist history. I don't know if it was right or wrong. That'll be up to Bachelor Nation. Oh, on behalf of Bachelor Nation, thank you. Yeah. And so it just forced a situation that needed to be forced in a conversation that had to be had. And I found it interesting to have Victoria and Hannah Ann's perspective, and I thought they were great of, hey, I understand what's going on here. And this is important. And this guy needs to really suss all of us out before he makes a big decision. And so I think it was a glaring, you know, spotlight on what Madison wasn't understanding about this.

I loved it. I loved it. And I love your explanation because I'm like, that is what we needed. Whether you knew you needed it or not, and we got it. We got it. Mow there was all. awkward for them, hard to watch. It was what was necessary to push this journey forward. I appreciated it because if we had done that, if the girls on my season, Becca, I don't know about you, but if the girls on my season had done it, me, Vanessa, and Raven, it wouldn't have been awkward. They would have been hysterical. Yeah, because I remember saying to Raven, we were like, are we going to be Eskimo sisters?

So we would have been excited if we could have come back and talk about what happened in Fantasy Suites. These girls, that's not them. They don't have that same bond. I think that I had on my season, Becca, and they, and they, you know, and they, you know, that you had on your season with your ladies. They don't have that bond. There's not, I don't see a lot of BFFs coming out of this season.

And maybe that has to do with their age or their emotional intelligence. I don't know, but there's, I don't see a lot of that sisterhood that I've seen in seasons past. And before, I do want to move on because you mentioned Hannah Ann and Victoria, who I was, where the first time this whole season impressed with this episode. Well, the Victoria, there's some moments. But I was impressed with the way they handled the entire week. situation. But you mentioned the sisterhood, and I said all of that, and now I have forgotten my question. Oh, Becca and I were talking about how the key to success on this show isn't just

the relationship that you have with the lead. It's the relationships you make in the house. And with the brotherhood or sisterhood, because that's who you spend a majority of your time with, and you need that circle of support to get you through it. Is that kind of how you feel and what was lacking this season? I was trying to think if there was a probably Ben Flanick season off the top of my head was the last time a real black sheep, someone who went rogue, dominated the season and actually, you know, quote unquote one or ended up with the guy. I was trying to think of someone since then, but I think that's it where the quote unquote villain dominated and actually got what she wanted. Other than that, it really is you need that support system and you need to be propped up and shown in a good light. And that's usually the case.

You know, usually the person won't be attracted to someone who's not getting that respect in the house. And usually kind of one begets the other. But, yeah, I can only think of one time in history where that's really happened. Yeah. So people are mad at us from last week because we only talked about Victoria Fuller's hometown. Well, how could you not? I'm sorry. That was where the juice was.

Because she didn't even have one. And took the cake. So we'll make sure that we heard you. We hear you when you write us into us. us and you DM us, you comment. So we are going to cover the other fantasy suite dates, even though Madison's is where the juicy part is. So Hannah-Anne gets the first date.

And, you know, it's, I don't know, Becca or Chris, whoever wants to take this. I was impressed with Hannah Ann. I know she's kind of had a bad rap at the beginning. And she's very confident. And I think to some people that comes off is smug. but she made it easy for Peter and he needed that

and I loved that she gave that to him I think Hannah Ann she surprised me a little bit this week I have two things that I wanted to touch on with her because number one as you said she made it easy and that's really what people need this week that's why I remember leaving

Garrett's st. Because we just laughed and coughed and had the best time and up until that point it's so stressful it's so anxiety written that to just have somebody who gets it and they're like hey you know i'm here for you i understand that as tough as it is to see you go to two other fancy suits with two other women like you need to do what you have to do you need to exhaust all avenues of these relationships to make the best decision for yourself at the end and i appreciated her saying that to him and and her saying you

know at the end of this like i'm still here for you i understand and i think that helped him now my thing with Hannah Ann, and maybe I'm just being too nitpicky here, but she does not have the face or she doesn't look at Peter. Me personally, I think that's like she's in love with him. Like, it's not the face of a girl in love. Hannah?

Am I, and is that just me? Yes. I think she wants to and I think she likes him and likes the idea of all this, but I don't truly think it's fully there for her, like she's saying it is. Interesting. And maybe

And maybe I'm just picking it apart because there's moments where Peter, like, when they're sitting at the dinner table and she's saying, or she's saying, you know, I love you or I'm falling in love with you. And she just kind of, it's like there's not that giddy excitement. And maybe that was just me that's how I feel when I feel that love. But there was just something. I'm like, I don't know if it's all adding up for me here. Yeah, I mean, I can see how it kind of seems like a little bit of a puppy love relationship.

But, I mean, one thing, and Becca, you know this. When you get to this point in the season, you don't want to have to question. anybody's commitment to you. And so I appreciate that Hannah Ann is allowing him to, or letting him know, this is where I stand, this is how I feel, I'm going to be here, I'm confident in us. And the other two girls that he has left are not giving him that. So I really think Hannah Ann stepped up in a way we haven't seen, frankly, from any of his top run, what's the word, the top runners? Yeah, the front runners. Thank you. I was going to say forerunners. Thank you. I was going to say Forerunners. Thank you, Chris. I think Hannah Ann became the new Madison. And like you said, one thing I've noticed in the history of this show is it is the ones that will make life a little easier on you. Now, we'll get into Peter and Victoria because that's a very interesting relationship that I have a lot of theories on. And he's very different in that way. But for the most part, when you guys go through this, the guys and the girls, it is those that will let the air out of the balloon and they can just relax with you and make it easy. And Madison has done that.

for Peter this entire time, well, now Hannah Ann is doing that. So I think she is kind of the new Madison. And that's why I think she really shined this week is it was just easy. It was so simple. And I thought it was loving. I thought it was really sweet. I thought she expressed herself finally, really did a good job of articulating her feelings and love. And so for the first time, I really believed in her. I did too. Articulating. Something else has been missing this shocking. Yes. Where do we don't use much? The word of the season. Victoria F. Let's get into her because we mentioned her. Now, there are a lot of things that have bothered me when it comes to Victoria F. But I finally got what it is. She doesn't look you in the eye when she talks to you. And I think that is very telling. Even when Peter's talking, she looks down. Yeah. Like, how would that make you feel? I mean, I like, I'm the same way. I like eye contact as well. Here's the thing with Victoria.

Explain. We want to know. I only know this because of my own missteps in life in my own relationships. But I had two conversations with two men in the last five days who basically defined the same relationship Peter is in with Victoria. And that is, and I guarantee the two of you have had these as well. You get to a point I did after my divorce of a crazy chemistry relationship. It's on fire. I mean, it's, you know, on a level, you don't even understand, and it's coming at you,

and it's a thousand degrees. And you've never had that kind of passion before. Well, that can't be it. And it's not sustainable. And the quote of the season might be when Peter said, and everything in our relationship is great. Yes. But we don't communicate well.

I wrote that down yet. What do you mean? Everything's fine. I didn't do. When I saw that, I thought, you know what? that just completely explained everything about this relationship. And I will admit, I've had a relationship like that too, post-divorce. It was hot. It was heavy. It was this crazy chemistry I hadn't had in a long time. And I'm like, wow. And I'm like, this is not working out. And it's so volatile.

And it's, it's so wrong on so many levels. And it's the relationship. Your friends are going, what are you thinking? And you break up. And then what do you do? You get back in and you do it again. And then your first thought is, why the hell am I back in this relationship? Now I got to break up again. But I swear to you, in the last week, I've had two conversations with two other guys who were in the same situation. And from the outside, I'm thinking, this is Peter and Victoria. He can't help himself. She is not only the drug he needs. She's also kryptonite. Yeah, he wants to fantasy sweeter. We said it last week. But it's not as simple as that. He does, but I think it goes beyond that.

It's just it's that relationship you want to fix. You want to save because, God, it's so good when it's good. But when it's bad, it's just sewage. See, this is why it's great to have the male opinion. You know what I mean? Becca, we couldn't have said it this way. We couldn't have. And I actually now understand a lot better.

I'm not saying it's okay. But thank you, Chris. But we've all been there. I've done it. I've been there, done that. I have the sweatshirt. I get it now. I broke up for the same girl three times.

Now, I have to ask you this, Chris. because, again, the title of this episode is, Am I missing something? Yes. The conversation that Victoria and Peter have that evening, she continues to say, I don't know, more times than I could count. I ran out of fingers.

This is when he pressed her and said, what was it about this last relationship that you didn't feel good enough? And all she kept saying was, I don't know. But then towards the end of it, as they're reading the card from you, they're getting the key, he's like, this is the best conversation

that we've ever had. And I'm going to curse here. I was like, bitch, where? Where was this conversation? Did we miss something? Because, and then the best quote was, we haven't fought yet. That was it. That's why it was so good.

They hadn't tried to kill each other. Well, this is the time to have that heated passion so you can take that into the fantasy suite. That was it. They hadn't yelled at each other. But, you know, again, you see the emotion when she can't. What's the word? Articulate her feelings when he says, what was it about this last relationship? And then she, go back to sitting on the stoop at the hometowns when she couldn't complete a sentence there and really explain what was happening.

And she never really said anything. And then she looks at him and says, you got it? You understand? And you just want him to go, no. What could I possibly understand? Of course I don't understand. You're not saying words. He's like, it's getting late.

We need to go ahead and pull this card out, get this thing moving along. But it is funny. I just, you know, again, I love the show because it is so relatable to so many relationships we've all been in. And these, all these represent are represented in our lives. And so we've all been there. We're, like you said, we've tried to change the bad boy. We've tried to fix somebody. I'm a caretaker. I always try to fix people. And so we've been there. And you see this coming a mile away, but you can't save people from themselves. And I know this is the host and as the therapist and as a dad. You can't save people from themselves. All you can do is, give them the best information, and then he's going to do what he's going to do. And he's really falling for Victoria. This is real. It wasn't, hey, I want to, you know, spend the bottle with this girl in the fantasy suite. It's real. Yeah.

To him, it's real. Yeah. And nobody knows your relationship like you do. So we don't get it. We can speculate. We give our opinions. But we're not in this thing with Peter and Victoria. I do have one more question before we cut to a break.

We talked about Madison a bit. When Madison pulled Peter to the side in that hanger right after that last rose ceremony that we saw, do you think that she was expecting Peter, because now it's down to three women? We saw what happened last Bachelor's season when it was down to three women. Do you think she was thinking, if I give him this ultimatum, maybe he'll just rev up the engine, we'll hop in this airplane and peace out and leave these two girls standing there and that's the end of the season. That's how I felt. Maybe there was a certain sense of arrogance there. Yeah, that maybe I feel like our connection is so strong that I will just pop this balloon now.

A hundred percent. And he set her straight, which again, I was proud of Peter saying there are two other women here and I can see a future with them as well. Yeah, I need time to figure this out. He did a good job. I will say this, I will give him credit for the things he's going to get beat up for and he does. I was with Peter last night, actually.

We had dinner and we were talking about how his skin is. is so thick because he's just getting crushed this season. But he's such a good guy and he has such a great, strong belief in his family and his faith and all that. He knows where his worth comes from. So while he's getting crushed by Bachelor Nation, he still knows he's doing his best and he's

a good man. And he tries to make these decisions. He just can't. But yeah, I think maybe she thought our relationship is so strong as could be over. So I'll ask you this then. I'll leave you with this. Since you did have dinner with Peter. Yes. And we see on the previews for the next week that he's

questioning the decisions that he made in Fantasy Week, does he still have those same regrets? Yes. Whoa! And that's, and that's, we're just going to put a pin in it right there. Whoa, I wasn't expecting that answer. Okay, we'll be right back with more from Chris Harrison. Don't go anywhere. Okay, Chris, for maybe the first time, I know since I've been watching this season, and I'm sure for other people, we have no idea what's to come.

Even as crazy as Colton's season was, this is on another level. please, I'm begging you from all of us in Batser Nation. Can you tell us what's the, we've got the reunion coming up, we've got the finale, one more week left, give us something. Up next is the tell-all. We'll bring, obviously, everybody back. And it's going to, that's going to be interesting with this group, because it's a very different dynamic in the house as well as just a very different season. And then obviously we're off to, well, we stay in Australia. And that's where the finale takes place in that final week. We switched towns, but we're still there.

And it is unlike any season we've ever had as far as the finale and how it ends. And you see a little bit in the supertees with the dramatic and him being upset because he gets some news. That final couple of days, you see his mom. We're finally going to get the answer of who his mom is talking about, the Merrill Streep moment of bring her home to us. This is what love stories are made up. Merrill Streep wishes she had those skills. Oh, Barb. I love Barb.

I absolutely love that woman. But, you know, there is so much that's left to unpack and to go through. I feel like the seasons barely started, honestly, considering what's about to happen in the final week of the show, which is wild to say. Wait, so Chris Harrison, are you saying it's not over? Like, even after the finale, are we still going? I didn't say that, but I will say it's never over until it's over. Oh, my gosh. But there's just a lot more to come before we can get to a conclusion.

And there's a lot more that's about to happen and on so many levels. Well, we know you have your work cut out for you more than ever at Women Tell All this year. So we do wish you the best in that. I mean, how do you, you know, how do you, this has been frustrating for us to watch. How do you muster up the, I don't know, like I know that you're a host, you're an executive producer, like approaching each season and then there's just so much, like, we're frustrated watching. I'm sure you're frustrated in it. Like, how do you keep going each season other than the money? I'm not going to lie. That helps. You know, I'm not on a tour bus in Salt Lake City.

But, you know, I still, first of all, I love the people I work with. And I mean the crew, too. But also you guys, you know, going through what we went through and going through what Beck and I went through. And even going through now this guy, Peter, and working through it with him, I get excited about it. I find it interesting. I find it fascinating on so many levels of relationships and following the show. I'm a fan of the show, too. And so I also want answers. I want to pin these people down.

Like, I want to know why you say the word lingerie. And finasco. And finasco, or whatever it was, she was trying to say. Like, that stuff tracks- The answers we need. Yeah, exactly. So I've always thought when you're doing an interview, it's like if the person at home is screaming at their television, I want to ask those questions. And so I still enjoy most of it. There are times when it will dissolve into some barking and screaming and all that.

And I'm like, okay, I just want to drop this and walk out. But for the most part, I find it fascinating. What I'm about to go through with Peter over the next two weeks was fascinating. It took every ounce of our energy in power. to get through this. Yeah. There were a lot of tears. I mean, there was a lot of everything, cussing, you name it.

Yeah. You know, how it goes. Yeah. I mean, this, you know, I'll say this for Peter, as I've said it for the two of you. This is his life. And say what you will about him or Madison or Hannah Ann or, you know, Victoria. These are real people. And we're, you know, and I know you're privy to some of this when we get to tell all.

We're actually going to deal with some of this stuff at the tell all. I'm not sure how yet, but. it's gotten to a new level of people feeling like you're at a sporting event, you've paid your ticket, therefore I can yell and scream and say whatever I want to this human being, that's not how life is. That's not how it goes. There are rules to our society that are being broken and lines that are being crossed. And we're going to deal with that. And I hate to be cryptic, but we'll deal with that at the tell all a little bit more. We've dealt with it in the past where people have really overstepped their bounds. But, you know, I feel a little protective of all of you. you. And I feel like maybe it's time I need to step in a little bit more and have a talk with the class. Yeah. Maybe take the world to task on a couple of things. But, you know, he's a, he's a man who's gone through this journey. And if you love it, hate it, whatever. This is his life. And there's some crazy steps that are to come before we get to the end of this. If we do. Right. Well, we can't wait. We thank you for what you do. Your work is never done. Which one?

Hannah, there's Hannah, there's the producer, there's Hannah-Anne. I mean, I can't even keep him straight. This guy, he's got him lined up like planes at LAX. Well, we thank you for the service that you do for Bachelor Nation. I mean, like I said, your work has never done. And it seems to get harder and harder every single year. But before we let you go, we love to play a game with our guest. So, of course, in the spirit of Chris Harrison, we are going to play the most dramatic game ever. So, Chris, this is how this is going to work. Okay. We know that's one of your favorite phrases. So today we're going to put you in the hot seat and you're going to pick which moment was actually the most dramatic. Got it. All right. So, Becca, are you ready? Yes, I'm all set,

Rach. Chris, are you ready? Bring it. Go ahead, Becca. Give it to him. All right. I'm going to kick it off with the first one. So, Chris, between these two, who was the most dramatic bachelor of all time. We have Juan Pablo or Brad Wilmack. Brad Womack season one with him when he didn't make a choice was pretty wild. But overall, Juan Pablo from start to finish was probably the most dramatic. I know a lot of people feel like I don't like him or whatever. I don't dislike him. I found it fascinating again. What makes a guy tick? What made him do what he did? I thought that season was from start to finish dramatic, although Brad Womack's very last moment

may have trumped him. Can I just say that I ran into Juan Pablo's, I've never told anybody this. I ran into Juan Pablo's mom in Miami, and she pulled me to the side, and she wanted to have a full conversation with me about how her son wasn't done right, and she really wanted me to tell me

who he is and the type of person. And I just said, ma'am, I didn't even watch his season. I wasn't born yet. You know, I felt bad, because they were such lovely people. They were such lovely parents. Yeah, she was great.

And I'm like, how did that, again, big question. The bad seed. How did that come from that? You've seen that movie? Yeah, exactly. Very interesting. Okay, Chris, the most dramatic limo entrance moment. Alexis Waters dressing up as a shark, never forget.

Shark dolphin. Right, thank you. Or Jenna on Peter's season bringing an emotional support cow. I mean, those weren't dramatic as much as they were hysterical. Yeah. I mean, Alexis goes down in history. history. Not only coming in as a shark thinking she was a dolphin, but just how that carried over into paradise and all that. So I'm going to go Alexis. And I also love and respect how she

wore it. Yeah. I mean, not literally. I mean, emotionally, she really wore it well and owned the whole thing. Yeah. Rachel, I have to ask them to her friends with Alexis, does she still have that costume? I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know. But yeah, I don't know. She's got other costumes, though. Oh, wow. I don't mean like that. She's just a fun person. Alexis is this fun.

Slide into her DMs, fellas. All right. Next, the most traumatic lying moment was it when Ali Fedatowski confronted Justin Rego about having a girlfriend or when Rachel confronted to Mario about having a girlfriend? Oh, man. Well, with all due respect to Rachel, hers was good because it also included Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, which is when can you say

when can you say that there was DeMario the girlfriend and but I mean Rachel just kicked his ass and it was such it was such a one-sided beating but honestly one of the craziest moments

in the history of the show was Ali and Justin because we were in Turkey and because he was on one leg he was in a boot and we were in such a conservative country in a conservative hotel in Turkey and Istanbul

And he starts running through that. We had promised them up and down that we would be very cool, very calm. We're The Bachelor. We could never promise such things. He's running outside, climbing through fountains, and there's a restaurant. All these people are in Istanbul going, what is happening? And this guy was running away from us. And so that moment, and we actually lost him for a little bit in the stairwell.

So that moment will go down in history is the most dramatic. That wins. But Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was at your breakup. That was pretty awesome. That wins. Definitely ruined. DeMario ruined that moment for me. All right. Most dramatic two on one. Most dramatic two on one day. Ashley I and Kelsey on Chris Sol season or Chad and Alex on Jojo season. I mean, Ashley I takes the cake. Because also where that was, they were out in the desert. So it was just like out in the badlands, I believe we were. And he, you know, and he ends up breaking up with both. Just the tears from Ashley I. You can't top that. But we've had, I mean, I'll go back to. some good ones. You know, Lieutenant Andy Baldwin who left

some, I forget who it was, but he left her on the deck of an aircraft carrier. That was stunning. And then going back to Allie, leaving a guy on a glacier. Pretty good. He's guarding and protecting his glacier. Okay, Chris, most dramatic reenactment.

These are my personal faves. When a crew member jumped off a balcony to avoid being caught with Michelle Kaye on Paradise Season 1, or when Peter Weber split open his head on a golf car. This isn't even close. Puts. Ryan Putz.

That was the name of the crew member that took the fatal leap off the second story balcony. The sheer stupidity and craziness and insanity, I'll never forget when I was pulled into breakfast, I was woken up and Martin Hilton, who is an executive producer

and president of our company, calls me and says, you're not going to believe this, get to breakfast right now. I'm like, okay. And he tells me this story. And I was looking around as if there were cameras because I was just someone was jerking around on me. That couldn't be real because there's so many things that could have happened before he decided to jump down and break both of his ankles.

So by far, Ryan Putz. I first of all petition for more of these, these reenactments. They're fantastic. Well, and I will take a little credit because my background is journalism and my background is a news guy. And I thought I wanted to go like 70s, 80s. 80s reenactment where we got a dummy and we literally threw a dummy off and it was like really over the top, Dan Rather, is this as if this was the most important news report anybody was ever giving and we really leaned into it. And that's where the whole reenactment thing even started.

So we got to give kudos. He's in the Hall of Fame. The Puts Hall of Fame. There will never be another. You can't, you cannot top that. All right, most erratic I love you moment of all time. When Ben says, I love you to both Jojo and Lauren or when Juan Pablo says, I like you to Nicky Farrell at the rose. No, in all fairness, Juan Pablo says, I like you a lot. He said a lot. So that's really close to love. We can't forget that. Yeah, I'll never forget that. But Ben saying I love you sincerely to two women. And now, you know, you think there's two great women to fall in love with, but that was it for sure. I, because the Juan Pablo thing, I just felt horrible. I felt great for Andy Dorfman and Claire, who escaped in that final three. But I felt

terrible for Nikki, who was like, trying to have her moment, and this guy says, I like you a lot. And then didn't understand why that wasn't enough. But so I'm going to go, Ben, just who was, you know, he's not the, he's not the only one anymore. Right. But he was the first. But he was the first. It was a big deal.

And you would think people would learn, not a great idea. Started this right. Well, Chris, I have to ask this one. And I think our listeners would absolutely love it. But we need to know what was your most dramatic. memory of being on the show in 18 years the most dramatic moment oh my gosh to me the most dramatic moment was was it December 6th 2003 trista's wedding i'll never forget being at that wedding we weren't sure what the show was up till then and then trista kind of solidified and legitimized

this franchise and we decided we were going to throw a wedding and a million people, you know, were clamoring to get into this wedding. It was crazy. And we threw this wedding out in Palm Springs. We all drove out there. Wasn't sure what to expect because we hadn't thrown a wedding before. And it was just crazy. And I'll never hear there was three helicopters hovering about a hundred feet above this hotel trying to get paparazzi shots. You couldn't hear anything. And we had snipers out in the desert trying to keep people from hiking in. It was wild. And that, to me, thought on a lot of levels my life has changed this show is nuts this show is going to go on forever and but it's real at the end of the day there was this beautiful wedding um and in this young

kid uh you may have heard him brad paisley started his career that night whoa we we gave him the gig we gave him the gig to sing at the reception and i'll never forget he came out his little hat and uh and he's like hey you know mr harrison we really appreciate you giving me this big break and so for so many reasons that moment was this kind of just lightning in a bottle moment that I'll never forget I had no idea that any of that ever happened other than the wedding right I had no idea the logistics behind it a lot of pink I remember just to said that we were in the middle of Meredith's season of the bachelorette and so we were trying to wrap up her season we actually took a pause we did a rose ceremony we all got in a limo drove out to Palm Springs shot for two days went back and did Meredith's finale. And in the midst of that, personally, my then-wife was 9.9 months pregnant. We were due and she was having contractions during Meredith's finale. So I was about to have my second child doing a wedding and then Meredith's finale all in one month. So it was a wild time. And that's why they pay you the big bucks. They sure as hell didn't then, but they do now.

Chris, it's been so great to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much. much for being here. I just want to say thanks for finally having me on. Congratulations on the podcast. I love you both very much. I really do. I love, I mean, I text you, Rachel, all the time because your success on ESPN and all the things you're doing. You are kicking ass in the world. And I truly love when I get to see you guys grow and do such great things. And Becca, the same. I know you and Ben are on the road doing the Lord's work and doing the live show. But I do. I love when I see that, you know, we've been through this and we have that extraordinary connection. And then when you guys go off and do great things. I take a lot of pride. Not that I have anything to do

with it, but I take a lot of pride and y'all's success. No, you do. And thank you so much for saying that both to Becca and I, and I will say, because a lot of, one of the big questions that we get all the time is, how involved is Chris Harrison with you guys? Do you really get to see? And when you're a contestant, not as much, but when you are in the lead of the show, you travel together. We are with you. And there were times when we had conversations, and I know I asked you about advice, post-show, and you were more than happy to give it to us and to counsel us and just kind of be that voice of reason when you don't have your family and your friends around. So you have to give yourself credit.

You do more than you than you're giving yourself. Well, I like to say to all of you that, look, if we need to have a conversation, like a real conversation, I got nothing in this. I'm fine either way. I'll help you. Like, I want what's best for you guys. I really do. I want this to work out.

And luckily for the two of you, it has, which is awesome. Thank you. All right. Well, we'll let you go because we can keep talking. to you, Chris. I could keep trying to... All I need is the first baby to be named Christopher. That's it. I'm surprised that actually hasn't happened yet. Harrison, Christopher?

No, Chris, I actually love the name Harrison for a boy. Very presidential. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Very presidential. So who knows? Harrison Cufferin. Because she's keeping her name. Harrison Cufferin.

Are you? Harrison Coofran. But I love you both very much. Congrats on the podcast and continue success. Thank you. We love you, too. Thanks, Chris. love you. All right. Well, apparently we forgot to do cats and rats of the week last week and

people were upset. I didn't realize how people are looking forward to this. So, Becca, we got to make sure that we get it done. It is time for our cats and rats of the week. There are some cats and some rats. Becca, we're down to slim pickings at this point. So who's your cat? Who's your rat? You know what? Very slim pickens. As much as I did like Madison, I would tell this point, she did kind of take a turn. So she's going to be the red of the week, just confronting Peter with everything in this moment. I think it made it very tough for him. Obviously, we'll have to see how that plays out. And then my cat, I'm going to give it to Hannah Ann. I mean, I have my thoughts, but I think he did still step it up this week and was able to her to do it a little bit more with

his feeling. So it's going to Hannah Ann. Okay. I agree with you completely. My rat as well goes to Madison, just for the timing and delivery of this information she's been holding on to for nine weeks. And I'm going to give my cat to Peter. Yep, I'm making Peter a cat this week. Just because I like it. I really appreciated his honesty, his understanding of Madison's beliefs and standards and acknowledging that, but then also being, she was being true to who she was and he was being true to who he is. He said, I respect that, but that's not me. And I appreciated, even though he's slightly outed the women, that he said, I have been intimate. And he was honest. And honesty is something that not everybody is strong enough to do.

So I appreciate that from Peter. I'm Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman, host of the psychology podcast. Here's a clip from an upcoming conversation about how to be a better you. When you think about emotion regulation, you're not going to choose an adaptive strategy which is more effortful to use. And you think there's a good outcome. Avoidance is easier. Ignoring is easier. Denials is easier. Complex problem solving. It takes effort. Listen to the psychology podcast on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jamel Hill. Hosted the Sports and Politics and on the latest episode of Spolitics, House Minority Leader Hakeem

Jeffries joins me for a candid conversation about the state of the Democratic Party. What do Republicans say to you privately that they won't say publicly? Many of them are in fear of their political lives. We continue to say to them, you were elected to defend your constituents and there's life after Congress. Make sure to listen to this episode of Politics on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories

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