Bachelor Happy Hour - Joan & Jonathon’s ‘Happy Hour’ Takeover! | Happy Hour

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Today on “Happy Hour,” we’re switching things up with two very exciting guest hosts: our former Golden Bachelorette JoanVassos and “Bachelor in Paradise” star Jonathon Johnson! Joan and Jon dive into this week’s episode of “The Golden Bachelor” and there is a lot to discuss! We get into each of the mini dates on our final group date of the season, including whose date seemed to put them ahead of the rest. We also address the big question this episode: Can someone really get a Hometown with a one-on-one? They also don’t hold back as they discuss Nicolle and some “wrong reasons” allegations she’s facing; do Jonathon and Joan agree? Plus, we get their thoughts on Mel and his final three; you won’t wanna miss our hosts’ unique perspectives as they predict who might secure Mel’s heart in the end. Tune in now to hear all this and more and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. The best dates happen when someone really gets your vibe, your niche references, your hot takes, even your reality TV obsessions. That's why it's so exciting to be partnering with Bumble. Dating feels easier on Bumble with prompts that show off your personality, shared interests that help you find common ground, and verification that gives you peace of mind that you're meeting someone real. So if you're ready to meet someone who really gets you in your energy, Bumble is the perfect place to start. waiting for download bumble and start your love story johnny knoxville here check out crimeless hillbilly heist my new true crime podcast from smartless media campside media and big money players it's the true story of the almost perfect crime and the nimrods who almost pulled it off it was

kind of like the perfect storm in a sewer that was dumb do not follow my example listen to crimeless hillbilly heist on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Ed Helms host of Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop? What? Yeah, it's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous

guests. Paul Shearer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan, Klepper. Listen to season four of Snafoo with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times. It starts with a dream, a nature reserve, and a spectacular new home. But little by little, they lose it. They actually lose it.

They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years, until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season, ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. What's going on, everybody? And welcome back to a bachelor happy hour. Sorry to interrupt your regularly scheduled programming. you here with Jonathan Johnson and my beautiful co-host, Joan Vassos. And we're going to be talking about everything Golden Bachelor from episode five. Five. Can you believe it? And we're here stopping

in for Serena Jo, her traveling today. So you're stuck with Jonathan and I, but we have a lot to talk about. And we are so happy to be here. Beyond happy to be here. Well, Joan, if you want to start this off, go for you. I'll just kind of play off you. Yeah, go for it. Okay. Well, first of all, like my first thoughts about this episode is the house looks so empty like six people are so few and I feel like we got there really quickly I don't know do you feel the same way like this is flew by flew by like we only have six left well we what do we start with 24 25 I don't know we are six we're at six we're getting down to three so we have six right now after home towns already after episode five is insane and that's a little bit of the shock when Jesse came in and said

there's only going to be three hometowns. So, like, on my season, I had four and most seasons have four, but I do remember back to Golden Bachelor, and he only had three also. So they're kind of like the Golden Bachelors seem to only do three, which seems like not very many, although as someone who has a lead and did hometowns, they're exhausting. So I can see why maybe they're only doing three. But I just feel like that house is so empty, and there's only six of them left, and it just seems like there's so much less energy in the air now, and it's all very subdued.

yeah and i the like the the whole dynamic of the women left too is insane and i know like i'm jumping ahead but i'm really excited to talk about like who's left yeah but like everything that had led up to this moment like all like the like the spiritual journeys he was doing with people and like the one-on-one like it was all very it was an episode that needed to happen yeah well boucher loves to do those awkward episodes where you do all this really spiritual stuff with these virtual strangers And I had to do it on my season. I did it with Pascal. We were both like we wanted to get out there as fast as we possibly could because it's so uncomfortable. But weirdly, okay, I know we're going to get into this. We're probably jumping ahead. But Mel embraced it a little more than I expected him to. But let's talk. Let's talk that kind of from the beginning to the end. Otherwise, you and I are just going to get off on a tangent. Yeah, we're going to come back. We know how we are. So, okay, so six ladies left. And I remember it started out with the two who didn't, had never had one-on-one dates talking. So it was Carol and Cindy sitting there. and they were both like, well, this is like a really important day because hometowns are next week and or tomorrow or whatever really soon and neither one of us had had a date yet. And I remember like Carol's saying, like, I don't think if I don't get a date, I don't think I can get to where I need to be with Mel.

And I don't know if she was talking about herself or with, or Mel, she didn't think would know her well enough, but whatever. She kind of just said that right out. And Cindy was really kind. And she said, you know, you've had kind of a slow burn and give it some. time. I feel like you're on the fast track now and things are going better for you, which how nice is Cindy, who also had not had one-on-one date yet. So I feel like she was really, really kind. And then, of course, Jesse enters. Oh, and I also remember from, I think, those beginning conversations where Nicole, and she's a whole conversation we need to have,

by the way, Nicole, there's a lot to talk about Nicole. Seems to be very confident about the whole thing. Like, you know, if I can manifest it, it can happen. If I believe it, I can manifest it, and then it was going to happen and I feel really confident and I feel like mill and I have this deep connection so she's seeming very confident everybody else seems not particularly confident to me no no and I can't tell if Nicole's is like a real confidence or she's like doing it for the bit you know what I mean like obviously a lot of what she's talked about this last episode is like oh like I'm here to build social media career and monetize myself and this and that and I'm like okay yeah she she she has a lot of like confidence in the way that she like

goes about what she's doing, but is that confidence from an internal place, or is she just really good at following the storyline that she has sat in her head? You know what I mean? Like, there's, there's a difference to acting confidently for your own self-interest in, like, a positive, good way, and there's a way of doing it in, like, a professional way. Like, I have a job to do. I'm going to do it. I'm going to get it done. You know what I mean? So, like, which way is she confident in? Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what her job is here. And, like, we all expect it. She's there because she wants to find love and she wants to connect with Mel, but I'm not really very confident that that's what it is. Or that she kind of wants both,

but like the Mel part is just the second part of her journey, not the main part. Yeah. Like, if she ended up with Mel, like, I mean, we'll get to this later in the episode because she does say some very strange things when they were having kind of their last one-on-one. But I think we should probably talk about, like, okay, here we go. A date card enters. Yeah. And so, so, So the two people that are really, really invested in this date card are Carol and Cindy because they haven't had a date yet. Oh, no one. I haven't had one. Yep. And like can somebody, okay, I want to ask you this question. Can somebody get a hometown visit without ever having had a date. Yeah, I think somebody did on grant season last year. Zoe had hers. So it is a possibility for somebody to do it. But I think the unsettling, uneasy nature of it, like to be like, Hey, I'm going to bring you home to meet my family and potentially get engaged.

You're like, I've spent a total of two hours with this person, four hours with this person. It kind of fluctuates. Like, I can see where her uncomfortability in doing so would come from. And obviously, we learn later on that she decides to self-eliminate. So self-aliminate. So you can understand why she puts so much pressure behind this. And Cindy, too. I think Cindy is a little bit more confident in her relationship.

Or maybe she was just better at, like, hiding like, the, I don't know, Like the uneasiest, uneasiness from it. And I feel like we've seen very little of Cindy's one-on-one interactions with Mel. She seems very confident, and she feels like she's falling in love. She said she has such strong feelings. But we've seemed so little from her. I don't know. For some reason, she hasn't got a lot of airtime.

And maybe Carol has had a little bit more. But Carol's airtime seemed very uncomfortable and a little awkward. Like she had a hard time talking to him. I will say, though, I love that she owned it. I think a lot of, like, people can relate to it, too, because when you're a good looking person, people like expect things from you or you should be like this or they expect you to be like this outgoing confident person. And I think there's a lot of people out there like that can relate to like, oh, my God. Like she kind of humanizes a situation or it's like, oh, I'm a beautiful person. But like I get awkward too. You know, she's like it's been. What was it? She said like seven years. Seven years. Seven years. Seven years. Since she's had somebody. I think, yeah, that was Cindy. Cindy was seven years. I don't know how long Carol has been. But it may be seven. But it's been a long time for her also. A long period of time to jump back into it and still feel that like, oh, my God, I'm like a little kid again. Like, I don't know what to do.

I'm excited, but I don't know how to talk to them. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like there's something like very just like heartwarming about it and it's easy to connect to, you know? It's a very relatable thing. I totally agree with you. So Mel comes in. So Jesse comes in.

He drops a date card, okay, of course. And Cindy and Carol are sitting there like really, you know, a little nervous. and of course we know the four people that were called so they called Pegg who was reading the day card and Debbie and Cheryl and Nicole were all called and then the last one they called was Carol so like you see the two of them are waiting for their names and the last name was called was Carol so Carol didn't get the one-on-one

and she comments you know like it's time is running short and I'm running out of time so she knows that that's going to be really hard but I also love and Mel did the same thing I did on my season And when you go into like these last few dates and it's going into hometowns, like I said, I'm not going to give out any roses on dates because it locks you in to something like, so let's say he would have given out a rose on the group date and on the individual date. He would have only have one rose left at the rose ceremony. There would have been one rose sitting there. So I feel like he did a good job and saying I'm not going to give roses out on, on, you know, either the group date or the one-on-one date because I think he needs, like, eliminate three people is a lot.

You're limiting half the people that are there. So I think that was a really smart decision. I thought when he was at Griffith Park, and I know I'm jumping ahead a little bit with Cindy, and he's like, I got something for you. I thought he was about to like pull out a rose and go against what he said

because he had such a good time. That would have been good. And I was like, oh my God. Okay, Cindy front runner. And then I was like, oh, it's a star, which is still cute. I'm like, okay, that's good. It was cute.

But like to jump back, when Cindy found out that she was the one getting to go, she got really emotional. I think, I think part of it for her was her, like, empathetic side, you know, because she had that conversation with Carol and they were both kind of bonded over it. Yep, yep. And I felt similar on my season where I was almost more excited and emotional for everybody else but myself, which I knew it was a little bit of a problem, but on there, you could tell Cindy was just like excited for herself, but sad for Carol. And it's like, it's a weird mix of emotions, especially getting to that point. And that was such a good point because she handled it in such a classy way.

She didn't jump up and go, oh, my God, I got the date, I get the date, or, you know, like some people do. She just sat there really quietly and just like how Nicole might have? Like very, I didn't say it. You did. Hey, it's okay. Somebody's got to. I know. Thank you for saying it because I was thinking at it. I mean, I just felt like she was really classy and she was very kind to everybody. And I just think that's kind of like her demeanor anyway, which makes me like her even more. No, she seems like a sweetheart. She seems like a sweetheart.

A really good person. So they go on the group date. So when I see Mel sitting up here, on this, I think it's called Butterfly Mountain, something butterfly mountain resort or something. Yeah, it's here in LA, actually. Yeah, I know. It looks beautiful. And I see him sitting up there and I'm like, oh, God, here we go on one of these weird awkward dates that, I don't know. I feel like we do them every bachelor season. I'm like, oh, God, here we go again, making these people say about these intimate weird details about themselves. It's so uncomfortable. And here we are. And he is, I will say ideal day though. Ideal group day is everybody gets their own thing to do. do with you. You know what I mean? Because it's almost like a big setting of one on once. Yeah, you're right. You're so right about that. Whether they're like 10 minutes each or 20 each, you're getting your own time with him, which is actually really, really cool, especially that laid into it. You're right. You're right. So they start out by doing the shaman, whose name was Danny, comes in. It's a shaman Danny. Shaman Danny is here to make you do some

uncomfortable things. So everybody sit down and get ready to say something really intimate about yourself in front of everybody and national TV. And, but this first one was kind of easy and you were supposed to write something on this little incense thing, um, that you need to let go. Or something about, um, like, uh, some emotion that, like, you need to let go of or something. And, um, and Debbie said, kind of like, then her whole mantra for this whole season was like the hopelessness that she'd given up on giving, um, finding love at this age. So she had, she said that. But then both Peg and Carol said that they, that they, that they felt, um, unworthy and you look at both of them and they're just so beautiful and so successful and um you wonder how like people even on this show because it takes a lot of bravery and a lot of self-confidence to come on the show ever feel unworthy so that was like a i was very surprised to hear that from people yeah it is it's it's weird it's i mean it's also like a reoccurring theme too that i think this show does like to bring on is like that's a feeling that's relatable you know what i mean

it's one of those things that the audience can connect with. And I think seeing it in the older generations, too, you're like, wow, like sometimes it just never goes away. Even when you've had somebody and it comes to an end, that feeling still stays there. And it's a scary yet reassuring thing that you can just, you know, it's easy to get behind them, you know what I mean, and cheer them on and hope that they get over that feeling or that they feel chosen at the end. Yeah, I know.

And that whole thing about feeling chosen at the end. And then it makes you even more worried about them. So once they say the word unworthy, you're like, oh, God, I hope they choose you. I hope he chooses you. Well, two people said it. I'm like, you know, now what? Because you feel like, gosh, I want this to be your worthy moment and for you to let go of that. And, you know, we don't know who we chooses at this point.

It can either be the greatest thing that's ever happened to you or it could just pray on your insecurity. Just there it is again. Here we are. Oh, gosh. Right. You know, whenever we do those things, I always wonder, like, what I would have said. What would you have said if they said that to you? Like, what is your one thing that you need to let go of?

Now I'm told of putting it on your spot. I need a shaman here. Call me shaman chow. One thing that I think if it were me, it would have been purely internal. You know, I don't really worry about, like, external, like, validation or judgment. It would have been something along the lines of, like, forgiving myself for something in the past. And I'm not sure what that exact thing would have been, but something that allows for me to move forward. I think, honestly, Mel's was a good answer.

He just had friction. Fricion. I know. Interesting. I think his was internal friction from everything that's happened up until that point, which was actually a really good answer. Because you don't really see too many moments from him that he's like diving deep. You know, like I said, he's a very stoic man. He doesn't really like say too much.

So when he's like saying something that's the word friction deep, no, but the way he went about saying it and doing it, it was a deep answer. And you can tell he actually thought into that. Yeah, yeah. I agree. I feel like that is a reoccurring theme also with him because I think on his date with Nicole, he had said something similar like what to let go of. And it was, I don't think it was friction, but it was something like, you know, like tension or turmoil or something. I haven't written down. I'm going to, I'll look at my notes.

But he said something also. So, boy, there's a theme that, and we're not hearing a lot from Mel, right? We don't know really that much about him. But there is some kind of friction happening or was happening in his life that you can definitely tell exists because that seems to be his theme a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Even just with these one word. So we did like learn a little bit about everybody, even then that little kind of insignificant,

not big moment. But then they finally got their one-on-ones. And Pegg was the first one. I just wanted to die for her. But she's such a good sport and is so fun. That's when they had to go into the mud bath. I'd been like, please don't make me do that. That's so gross. It's going to get my hair dirty. She's such a good sport. And so fun. And she didn't care at all. In fact, she's like, this is right up my alley. This is so fun. And like, I think half the girls would have been like, oh, gross. I don't want to go in there. That's mud. Yep. Yeah, it felt like it was like right up her alley. She honestly, too, I mean, what is she not good at?

I was watching episode one when she was just like explaining all the things. I was like, what the, like, what? I know. She's had such interesting life. Yeah. And then bomb person. She like diffuses bombs. Oh, that's right.

That's right. Yeah, yeah. She's like a reserve fireman. She also defused bombs for the police force for years. And then she happens to be good at everything else. Everything else you did. Anything that was brought up. She's like, oh, yeah, I've done that.

You're like, oh, yeah. I mean, at the fear, like, at the fear, she beat him at every game. I think, like, you know, a good thing he has a pretty big ego because most guys would have been, like, slinking away home, like, sulking. He was like, wow, you're good at everything. And he kind of embraced it and liked it, which was actually showed me something good about him. Again, just these little things that you see that he's impressed that she's better at things than him is kind of charming. Hey, it's Ed Helms and welcome back to Snafu. my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups.

On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop? What? Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player. Who still wore knee pads? Yes. It's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests.

The great Paul Shear made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow. Angela and Jenna, I am so psych. You're here. What was that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry, Jenna. I'll be asking the questions today. I forgot whose podcasts we were doing.

Nick Kroll. I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's see how it goes. Listen to season four of Snap-Fu with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her. We know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people. and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn, or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I pour gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again?

And I help. a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. And he got down. And I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look to people in the eye.

Not always hide behind a microphone. Listen to Heavyweight on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia. We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it. But what they find is not what they expected. Basically, your stay-at-home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. They go, is this your daughter?

I said yes. They go, oh, you may not see her for like 25 years. Caught between a federal investigation and the violent gang who recruited them, the women must decide who they're willing to protect and who they dare to betray. Once I saw her gun, try to take his hand and I saw the flash of light.

Listen to the Chinatown Sting on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts. Samihante, it's Anna Ortiz. And I'm Mark and Delicado. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. We played mother and son on the show, but in real life, we're best friends. And I'm all grown up now. Welcome to our new podcast. Viva, Bethy!

Yay! Woo-hoo! Can you believe it has been almost 20 years? That's not even possible. Well, you're the only one that looks that much different. I look exactly the same. We're re-watching the series from start to finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama,

and the behind-the-scenes moments that you've never heard before. You're going to hear from guests like America Ferreira, Vanessa Williams, Michael Yuri, Becky Newton, Tony Plana, and so many more. Icons, each and every one. All of a sudden, like, someone, like, comes running up to me, and it's Salma Hayek. And she's like, you are my ugly bitchy. And I was like, what is she even talking about?

Listen to Viva Betty as part of the MyCultura podcast network. Available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I think, honestly, like, I'm a very competitive guy, too. As like a fellow competitive guy, I love when there's a woman that I bring around that can beat me and stuff. Like if you talk a little shit, you're really good at what you do, and you can kind of like put me in my place. Like nothing makes me eat that up more than like when they can come in and do that to my life. Is that right? Because it makes chalk sulk a little bit when I beat up. I've been about tennis and I did a couple of other things. Cornhole, he's like, all right, you're better at it.

Fine. Fine. Fine. My shoulders acted up today. Yeah, yeah. It was, you know, that wasn't on my game. Yeah, right? I don't think we've seen him open up. Like internally, wow, I just started so bad. He's opened up about his own, like, internal self, but not his feelings towards these women yet. Yeah, yeah. And I don't think he really does.

I don't think he's given anybody real reassurance. He's waited for them to say something and agreed. I don't think he's really taken a chance to be like, hey, I want to let you know, I really see something with you going all. way. Yeah. And by this point, a lot of times people are promising. You know what I mean? A lot of people get in trouble because they do that. Yeah, I know. But I do feel like at this point when there's only like six left, you're usually getting a feeling from the mains, like where, like, you usually get an idea about who they're really liking. And we definitely, I have no idea. Like from the

beginning, I thought this was Cheryl's to lose because she had that first eight and it went really well. But now I'm like, I'm not sure if Cheryl's not in last place at this point. And I usually don't feel like that. I usually feel like the person that gets the first date, like, things grow a lot deeper because they had more time in the beginning. And now they had things to build on. So I'm not really feeling that way about Cheryl. But I also am like so interested in all the interviews that are happening kind of sprinkled in this date, like after this date. And one of them, again, was Nicole. And she's like having a conversation with other women who are not on this part of the date. And she's like, you know, I'm feeling a lot of negative energy and a lot of insecurities from these. other women, and I'm feeling like that is making me feel more confident. And she's like, and I'm really in tune to people's negative energy. And so it's giving me confidence that I really am, that Mill really is going to pick me. And I'm like, you are so confused. I feel like she's so not in tune with the way things really are. Yeah, I don't think that she realizes that everybody's picking up on her energy as much as like she let on. Like she said everything that

she did and all the girls are like yeah we know why you're here and they're just i i just have a feeling they're not fans so she's taking their negative energy as like oh like they're competitive like they just are trying to get my man when it's like no they just don't like the reason that you're here to be honest like yeah yeah they're feeling negative about you who you who you are what you're doing it's it's completely what you're doing like that's the reason that that negative energy is there absolutely and she's just i don't i don't think she's thought internally enough about what she said and she didn't hold her cards close enough to like like if that's your intent she's not able to happens on this show we know it happens people come on for the wrong reasons all the time it's 20 25 you know

it's going to happen but it's so weird because it's not really true in goldens so like you know like gary season was so pure like none of us had a clue about instagram we knew nothing my season so pure like the guys were not there to be Instagram, you know, people. I feel like almost all the women here, not all of the women. Not at all. Like, you can't even find them on Instagram hardly. I mean, a few of them, but like really not at all. So when you look at these women, I feel like most of them are here really for the right reason. I feel like Nicole is a little bit of a, you know, kind of she's out there on her own right now. I feel like in that respect. Oh, and they say it too. They they outwardly say she's when they're when are they like sitting all in a group and she's saying

something along maybe they're at a table I can't remember the exact moment but Nicole says like oh I'm looking to like monetize like my workout program whatever and then her cooking her uh her cooking thing that's right and then she wants to be like a like a vegetarian cook or something yep and then it's like it's either Cindy Carroll or Cheryl that too many C names one of them goes I'm just looking for a nice man I'm just looking for a nice man and I was like I know I'm just that was her giving you a hint I think it was Carol. Crazy stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Well, she doesn't take hints and she is very, not very self-aware at all. So then we go on to the date with Cheryl, who now I've thinking, like, used to have this really great relationship with him. And now I'm thinking it's really faded a lot. But we're not knowing what exactly we're not seen on TV. Obviously, they're having interactions off of, off the screen. And again, Mel is in a bathing suit. He's going for a cold plunge this time.

I'm like, they're putting Mel in a bathing suit a lot. I think they really, really like his physique. So he gets a lot of tummy time. I know it looks good, doesn't he? But she really doesn't want to do it. Like, she's like, I don't want to do this. This is freezing cold. This isn't my idea of a good time.

I'm really, but, you know, she has to do it. We all know she has to do it. So she does it. I don't feel like it's a particularly interesting date to me. I feel like they're in there. He looks cold. She looks cold. They're supposed to, it's supposed to clear your mind and allow your feelings to take over or something.

I don't really see that. Which is the last thing. Have you ever done a cold plunge? Oh, yeah. It's miserable. The last thing it does is clear your mind. All you can think about is like keeping yourself alive. Has it been three minutes yet?

You literally, you're like, this is the longest three minutes of my life. Yeah. Can we get out of here? I know. And she's trying to be like a good sport and not act like a baby. She is like really doesn't want to be in there and I totally get it. I wouldn't want to go to the mud thing and I certainly wouldn't want to go to the cold punch and I've done one before. So I'm like no thank you.

But I do feel like, you know, she comes out, Mel says it gives you clarity. He's really buying into all this stuff. He brought into the mud thing. He's buying into this cold punch. Like he's kind of into it like in a bigger way than any of the women I feel like are. I feel like the women are all less into it except for maybe Debbie and we'll talk about her next. but anyway I feel like Cheryl wants to say like this cleared her minds so it gives her a lead in to say how she's feeling about him and she's finally she kind of fesses up that she has really

strong feelings with him and then she kind of hesitates and says like I'm actually I'm falling in love with you and what does he do the classic I really appreciate that and that's like the that's like death if he says that to you you should get up and walk out and self-eliminate because I'm kind of maybe reading into this though too and you got to think about what this show does you know what i mean like every time there's a clear frontrunner which she was in the beginning you know she at the first one on one she she i her story was one of the ones that just like made me a tearjerker i just was i loved her how she let go of that being mad at him she's a saint he left her in the hospital with a new baby and she and then disappeared for a year

and then and then kidnapped their child for a week i know but yet she's like i wanted them to have a relationship, so I'm going to forgive him. And then he dies. And then he died. I know. I'm like, this is just. Seriously. I was like, really? Yeah. Insane. It's a movie. It's a literal movie. It is. And you're cheering her on. Yes. But they have an amazing relationship up until this point. And like, I know for a fact this happened with Joey and Kelsey too, where Joey was so locked in on Kelsey that like they had to be like, you got to give these other girls a chance. Like you can't just be like, no. This one now. done done you know and this could be one of those cases where it's like maybe he does feel so strongly about Cheryl that like they're not showing that side of it so that we don't know maybe they're playing into it a little bit but in this moment like I believe that all up until this

moment when he said I really appreciate that and then but then he kind of went back a little bit and he said like I you know I had strong feelings for you on our first date and those haven't gone away And then she said, I really like for you to come to Colorado and meet my family. Or he said, what would a hometown look like? She said, do you come to Colorado? And he said, and he says, I really like to come to Colorado. So he's kind of leading her on now. Yeah.

He's bringing her back in. And she's feeling good. Yep. Yep. And then he does the date with Debbie. And Debbie's date was the one that would have made me so uncomfortable because they do the tantric yoga. Yeah. Which, like, I don't know what it is, but I could.

tell by that first pose that you kind of just yeah you just kind of hold each other in like yeah hold each other life okay it was really odd and like she has straddled him the first one and I'm like okay this is really uncomfortable yet they were so comfortable which gives me kind of was starting to give me a hint like I was thinking about rose ceremony all through this episode like really watching them to figure out who's going to get a rose and I kind of got a hint that maybe she was going to get a rose because they were so easy and so comfortable together and but I also just can't figure out his type they're so different

every one of these girls is so different like possibly Cheryl and Cindy are a little insane but I feel like everybody else Peg is a live wire Debbie has never been married before and it's just so genuine and sweet and just wants to have loves her badly and she's one of those ones that blows my mind yeah she blows my mind

with that because she's stunning too even the younger pictures they showed I was like I know if she was like my age and I would I would shoot my shot I would be like I know. I know. Like you and April. Like you and April on. Yeah. On paradise. Yeah, I know. April's my girl. I love April. I know. I know. I know. But I do see what you're saying to Debbie. I think the attraction, the physical attraction is there. It's really good. But it also goes past that. I feel like they have like a really good rapport. So I felt like after that date. I felt worse about Cheryl. I felt better about Debbie. And I ended up being right about that.

But, like, I really loved, I love that Debbie could possibly be the one that she's finding love with him because she's never. It would be such an amazing story. It would be the best story because there's so few people like that's one of the things like when you become a widow like I did at my age. You become, it's very lonely. There's very few single people out there. All your friends are a couple. So I can see her. She's been traveling this road for a lot of years of not being a couple.

And that's, it's hard. It's actually really, really, really lonely. But he said that he would love to meet her family. to it. Oh, is that right? I've never seen my mom married. And it's one of those stories that I just like I connect to. And I want to see her win. She needs to be on this. She needs to be on the show.

Yeah. I know. She's a very entertaining woman too. We'll talk. Yeah. She's your mother. Obviously. So Nicole. So Nicole and he went on. We should have started with Nicole because there's a lot to say. There's so much to say. So much to say and like so not much to say.

Because when it comes to she and Nell, there is like really nothing. But he came in and like his commentary was like, Nicole is one of my favorites because she made me lemon bars. And I'm like, I don't think he could think of anything else to say about her. And that's what he said that. I think he likes that she is all over him too. At least from early on, she was just like all over him. And like as a guy in this scenario, you have to go off of like any cue you can get. And it seems like for her, hers is very physical. So he's like, you know what? Hell yeah. Like this is awesome. Yeah. Like I'm. a divorced dude and then

I'll take some physical attention. Yeah, yeah. She's stunning and she's all into me. Done. Makes me feel good about myself. Makes me feel confident. Like I'm a good looking guy. This beautiful woman is really attracted to me.

So all this is good. I do feel a little like that was okay in the beginning. It was uncomfortable watching it. Like when they were in the pool, I was like, I need to turn this off. This is uncomfortable. I actually had my grandson laying in bed with me and he was trying to fall asleep. I'm like, you can't watch this.

Like, he's only five. Close your eyes. I was like, yeah. You shouldn't see this. So I did feel uncomfortable, but the fact that it never grew from the physical part of it was, I think, the biggest problem in the long run. And so they did the thing where they had to turn over a card and they were supposed to feel the energy from the card. And they turned it over and it said, witness. And then the shaman said, you're supposed to, the witness observes things but doesn't take action.

What have you observed in your life but you haven't taken action about? And Nicole, very fittingly, says, my fear of not being stable. And we're like, yeah, no shit. So I was like, yeah, we know that you have a stability issue. And she talks about that later in the episode. But, okay, stability was the issue. And then Mel says, okay, I wrote it down because it was something that I thought was really weird. Stress.

So he had already talked about, like, friction. And now he's talking about stress. I'm like, we have a theme going on here right now. Oh, yeah. And we're learning a little bit about Mel. I don't know if we're ever going to learn anymore. about this, but there's something happening in his life that is causing him stress and friction. So I wish we would hear the rest of that, but so far we haven't. But maybe eventually we will.

It's got to be something from the previous marriage, I'm sure. Yeah. You know, you're in this scenario where dating is the number one thing. It's got to be something along the lines of that. It's got to be. Because it seems like his kids are in good places. So like so far, like that's Yeah, I met them too at the Rams game when he had like he was getting honored. They're nice. They're nice. They're good kids. Nice kids. Yeah, they seem like a really good kids. But he, they finally are out of that weird shaman thing. And they are talking. And he says to her, what are your, where do you see yourself in five years? Yep. And instead of saying, you know, I want to have a companion and I want to travel and I want to build a life with somebody and, you know, whatever. I love being a couple. She talks about her cookbook. And she talks about her financial situation. My dad says, I don't have a money. Yeah. My dad says it's not have the money that. She's like, I want to be, you know, I want to author this cookbook and, oh, and my apartment is too small, but you live in this nice house and I'd really like to live closer to the ocean, like, implying that she's ready to move in with him just to make her like better because she lives in a small apartment, she obviously doesn't have any money. So that's when he finally in an interview that says, I think I see some red flags here. And maybe this was what Robin was talking about.

Yeah, yeah. Back like an episode ago. Also, it didn't throw him off when she's like, just give me a kiss, like, just for the camera? Just for the camera. That little cutaway. That was really weird. A little moment that just said a lot more than just the three little, like, for the camera. You are so right, just for the camera.

You know what I mean? And why would she say that anyway? Because, like, supposedly she was into it. So, I don't know. Right. So let's just move on from her because I think we all know how we feel about her. And if somebody in the entire world thinks anything differently, like she's there for the right intentions, like, you need to. Also, devil's advocate super quick before we move on, too.

Yeah. I know for a fact, especially now that I've been, like, out there dating, there's a lot of women like that, though. There are a lot of women that will relate to that as well that are, like, they do want to find somebody where they feel as if they will be taken care of for the rest of their days. Sure. And it's not an insane feeling. You're just not in the right setting to be acting and speaking on it in that way.

Yeah. And that seems to be the only reason why she's there. Like, she doesn't seem to care about the way he feels or the way she feels about him. It's all, like, getting to the end where she gets to live in a nice house near the ocean. It seems to me. Hey, it's Ed Helms, and welcome back to Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons.

Wait, stop? What? Yeah. Ernie Shackleton. like a solid 70s basketball player. Who still wore knee pads? Yes. It's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests.

The great Paul Shear made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow. Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched. You're here. What was that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today. I forgot whose podcast we were doing. Nick Kroll.

I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's see how it goes. Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in green. Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn, or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is

Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight, I help a centenarian mend a broken heart. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again?

And I help a man atone for an armed robbery he committed at 14 years old. And so I point. He pointed the gun at him and said, this isn't a joke. And he got down, and I remember feeling kind of a surge of like, okay, this is power. Plus, my old friend Gregor and his brother try to solve my problems through hypnotism. We could give you a whole brand new thing where you're like super charming all the time. Being more able to look people in the eye. Not always hide behind a microphone.

Listen to Heavyweight on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Samihante. It's Anna Ortiz. And I'm Mark and Delicado. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. We played mother and son on the show, but in real life, we're best friends. And I'm all grown up now. Welcome to our new podcast. Viva Betty. Yay. Woo-hoo. Can you believe it has been almost 20 years? That's not even possible. Well, you're the only one that looks that much different. I look exactly the same. We're re-watching the series from start to finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama, and the behind-the-scenes moments that you've never heard before.

You're going to hear from guests like America Ferreira, Vanessa Williams, Michael Yuri, Becky Newton, Tony Plana, and so many more. Icons, each and every one. All of a sudden, like, someone, like, comes running up to me, and it's Selma Hayek, and she's like, you are my ugly bitchy. And I was like, what is she even talking about?

Listen to Viva Betty as part of the MyCultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia. We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it. But what they find is not what they expected. Basically, your stay-at-home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. They go, is this your daughter?

I said yes. They go, oh, you may not see her for like 25 years. Caught between a federal investigation and the violent gang who recruited them, the women must decide who they're willing to protect and who they dare to betray. Once I saw the gun, try to take his hand and I saw the flash of light.

Listen to the Chinatown Sting on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts. So then the last date with Carol, and that, like, I kind of felt sorry for both of them. Carol said she was having a really hard time settling down. She's feeling this angst. I think she's probably going over the script in her head saying, I got to say goodbye. even if this goes really well, which it generally doesn't because it's a lot of individual. Like all of these are kind of individual, like, you know, thinking about yourself and about things you need to let go. So theirs was a very nondescript date other than both of them had to talk about something from their childhood that was bad.

And Mel said friendship, which I was so surprised, like that he wish he could give his, you know, younger self was friendship. And that sounded so weird because I felt like he came from. this, you know, cool neighborhood in Detroit in, like, his, you know, his original package from the first episode, looks like he was, like, the popular guy in the neighborhood. And I was really surprised to say that. And then, um, and then Carol said, um, something like, connection, um, and touch. And that maybe she hadn't, like, felt that as she was growing up, which seemed very, like, very unusual. But the big part of this date was her self-eliminating her saying, like, I originally saying, I don't think you're where you need to be.

You're not going to pick me to go in a hometown. It sounded like what she was saying. But then in her interview, she kind of backtrack on that a little bit. And she says, I just don't think Mel's my guy. Yeah. And that kind of put it back on her that she was taking more of the responsibility for, like, I didn't connect with him, not that he didn't connect with me. And I like that, you know, it gives her the power. Yeah, I think in any scenario where like maybe something doesn't work out, you never should just blame the.

other person. You know, it takes two people to make a connection. It also takes two people to split up. You know what I mean? Like, yep, it is what it is. And I think rather than just being like, ah, he didn't choose me, he's not this, he's not that. She's just like, you know what? I just, I don't feel a connection. And clearly he doesn't enough either to choose me for the one-on-one. And that's okay. You know, my, my person is out there somewhere. And I'm going to go find them. Yeah. I told you, there's no animosity behind it. There was nothing. There's no anger. and he understood, he goes, hey, I respect you, and I respect that you stick to your word

and that you have to do what you've got to do because... Yep, and that she's brave enough to do that. Yep. Because sometimes they just... 100%. You know, I think that there are sometimes other women feel like maybe the guy or the girl isn't theirs, but they go all the way to the rose ceremony

and they, you know, let the person do the hard job of not picking them. I like it when the people give themselves the power. I mean, if you don't feel like you're connecting, then you should go ahead and self-eliminate. There's nothing wrong with it. Take the power back. Hey, we love a strong woman. Don't give him the power. Come on now. That's right. I agree with you. So now we finally get to see Cindy on a date who I've been dying to see on a date. I can't believe it came down to the last one on one. I thought she would have gotten a date a thousand times more. But here we are, the last one on one. And she is so grateful to have it. And I love that. That was kind of her sentiment. And she's so cute in her little boots too. She's like, this is a hike. This dude was not the right shoe choice. And then shows up. And then it's horses.

And she's like, fuck, yeah. I got cowboy boots on. We're better with Texas around L.A. Yeah, she's ready to go. I love her. And I think that he loves, like, her Texas spirit, you know, that she comes in in cowboy boots and these cute shorts. And she just has a cute figure and she's adorable.

And she looks awesome in those cowboy boots. And she's just owning her home, the whole Texas. And it kind of sets her apart from everybody else. Everybody else is, you know, kind of dressing the same. She's doing her thing. She's doing her Texas girl thing. So I think he likes that. He likes a little bit of that spunk.

And we can see that he likes Spunk. because he really likes it in peg. So I'm glad Cindy's bringing a little bit of that into the whole thing. So they take the horses up to the observatory, which is beautiful. And they have the cute little banter going up there. I'm dying to go there. So next time I'm coming, I'm calling you, we're going to go. We're going to go to the park.

100%. I really want to go. I would love to do that. Please do. Yeah, on the horses, that was one of my favorite moments from the whole, like, episode two is like, he's this guy. Yeah, I played football. Like, I'm not going to get intimidated by a damn horse. He's a ride along.

you could see the like panic on his face and he's like nope not me he's like no i'm not scared and she's sitting there watching him she's like mm-hmm okay big guy yeah yeah yeah and she's just riding along you do your thing she's having the grand old time just laughing her ass off at him internally knowing that he's like kind of petrified so they finally get up to the top and we finally get to know cindy like she talks about her past and that she had a failed marriage which came as a surprise to her and she talked about her daughters and talked about how how hard it was. And I feel like we finally got to know, like, she was the perfect Cindy up until now. And then you get to see the vulnerable side of her. I don't think that he, though,

joined in. Like, that would have been a perfect opportunity because he had a failed marriage to talk about his. And he didn't. Didn't talk about his struggles. Didn't talk about raising those sons, you know, without the wife. I mean, I know that they had shared custody, but still, it felt like an opportunity for them to really connect on that. And it didn't happen. I was a little disappointed. But in the end of the whole thing, I felt like they had a really good connection. First of all, there was a lot of making out. So the physical connection was there. I felt like, I'm like, finally, she gets him. And it sounds like when she was talking to him on that date, she said, you know, I talked about being a biomedical engineer and a cheerleader and a valedictorian. She was, but I got,

such a badass. Yeah, such a badass, right? I know I'm dying to talk to her and we're talking to her for the next episode. But I feel like she has all these successes in her life, but then she had a failed marriage and that's what she's sticking, like that's what's sticking in her right now. So I love that she got to talk about it. I wish he had opened up about his, but in the long long, I feel like they had a really good connection. So I was going into this rose ceremony thinking I knew he was going to choose. I felt bad when Carol self-climinated because she was kind of on my list of maybe, a maybe. But I knew he wasn't going to choose Nicole. Nope. So then it just came down to a couple.

So let's talk about. Which she handled surprisingly well. Yeah? Which I was kind of shocked about. I could as easily saw her like maybe having a little fit or a Tiff where it was like. I didn't think she handled it well at all. I thought she was so inappropriate when she came out to the limousine. So he said, can I walk you out?

And so they walk up the limine. And what does she say? I wrote it down so I could quote this. Okay. She says if it doesn't work out with the one you pick. and it probably won't then call me and then she said i really mean that that was terrible okay see i i just i imagined her going in a direction of like fuck you like this isn't it you should have picked me like you messed up that's like i was i was the one that was here for you i'm

fully like invested in you not all these other women are like look at me i'm prettier than everybody like yeah i could have seen something like that but for her to just be like okay that's fine watch Watch it fail. Watch it get messed up. I'll be here. I'll be here. I'll be here. You call me. Okay. So he picks his three. So he picks Cindy. He picks her first. I always wonder if the order makes a difference. I don't know. He picked Pegg a second. And then he picked Debbie third. So Cheryl didn't get a rose and Nicole didn't get a rose. And so I kind of thought that maybe Cheryl might not get a rose. And I kind of thought that Nicole might not get a rose. Well, I know Nicole wasn't going to be a rose. But I thought Cheryl might not. But I kind of, in my mind, it was between Cheryl and Peg. I wasn't sure he was going to give Peg a rose. So I love his final three.

I think that they are all so different. I don't know. Like, what's the type? I can't figure out his type. So, but, oh, and then, okay, Nicole already campaigning, maybe I'll be the next golden bachelorette. Yeah, I mean, if there was a list of like a multiple choice of things that I thought she might say in her car at home, that would have been my first choice.

of course she's campaigning already that is that was more on brand for what I thought she might try to say we should now move on because it's time for this podcast to end I mean it was so fun being here talking through episode five because I thought it was a great episode and I love recapping it with you so let's say goodbye to everybody bye back bye everybody and we will be back with our interview with Cindy yeah can't wait Hello, America's sweetheart Johnny Knoxville here. I want to tell you about my new true crime podcast, Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist, from smartless media, campside media, and big money players. It's a wild tale about a gang of high-functioning nitwits who somehow pulled off America's third largest cash heist. Kind of like Robin Hood, except for the part where he steals from the rich

and gives to the poor. I'm not that generous. It's a damn near inspiring true story for anyone out there who's ever shot for the moon, then just totally muffed up the landing. They stole $17 million and had not bought a ticket

to help him escape. So we're saying, like, oh God, what do we do? What do we do? That was dumb. People do not follow my example. Listen to Crimless, Hillbilly Heist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Ed Helms host of Snafoo, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons.

Wait, stop? What? Yeah, it's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Shear. Angela and Jenna. Nick Kroll. Jordan, Klepper. Listen to season four of Snapu with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times. It starts with a dream, a nature reserve, and a spectacular new home. But little by little, they lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control.

Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years, until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight.

And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke. A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old. And a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? Listen to heavyweight on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.